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Interstate 93 Signing Work

Started by bob7374, May 05, 2012, 04:10:03 PM

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PHLBOS

Quote from: roadman on October 18, 2012, 09:21:45 AMthey were indeed put in place on exit signs on I-93 between the lower deck in Somerville and I-95 (at the time, 128) in Woburn in 1974.  When the I-93 sign panels were replaced in 1991, the dual tabs were removed and replaced with standard tabs.
Actually, I-93 had dual-tabs all the way up to the NH State Line at the time.
GPS does NOT equal GOD


StogieGuy7

Quote from: roadman on October 18, 2012, 09:21:45 AM
The dual exit tabs (i.e. EXIT 3 MILE 5) was a short-lived experiment based on a late 1960s FHWA human factors study (the title escapes me at the moment).  I don't recall any of these special tabs appearing on I-91 in Massachusetts (I think CT experimented with them on I-91 however), but they were indeed put in place on exit signs on I-93 between the lower deck in Somerville and I-95 (at the time, 128) in Woburn in 1974. 

Yes, they were in place on I-91 in MA, from the CT line to the VT line, back around 1975-76 or so.  I do not recall them along I-91 in CT back then, but perhaps this was done at an earlier time before I would have ever seen them.

roadman

#52
Thanks everyone for the clarifications.  Now that I think about it more, I do remember seeing dual tabs on the upper portion of I-93 in my younger days.  As for I-91, I suspect the dual tabs didn't last very long, because the sign plans for the 1994 Longmeadow to Northampton sign replacement project (panels only) show only single EXIT X" tabs on the signs being removed.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

bob7374

I've posted a set of photos taken on Sunday (11/11) covering new signage put up in the last couple months as part of the '128-Add-A-Lane' project along I-93 between MA 24 and I-95 in the blog article below:
http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2012/11/i-93-signage-south-of-boston-update.html Enjoy.

massroadpatriot


MVHighways

This is NOT the only project replacing signs on I-93...to that in a moment. But I finally found out why the on-ground sign for my exit (46) on SB 93 was out for a while earlier this year.

Now to that other project...New Hampshire, from Salem at the state line to Manchester. This is more of a construction project but they ARE replacing signs because of that. There are new signs for Exit 1 (which does NOT need to say "Exit Only" and has not needed it for YEARS, it is now a full interchange--but signs still say it) among other things. At the state line, they just replaced that "WELCOME TO NEW HAMPSHIRE" sign. I'll look through my image folders to see if I can get any photos of anything.

NE2

Quote from: nwrgeek on November 17, 2012, 04:31:45 PM
There are new signs for Exit 1 (which does NOT need to say "Exit Only" and has not needed it for YEARS, it is now a full interchange--but signs still say it) among other things.
??? 'Exit only' means that the right lane must exit. A partial interchange gets text like 'no northbound re-entry'.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

MVHighways

#57
Quote from: NE2 on November 17, 2012, 04:35:27 PM
Quote from: nwrgeek on November 17, 2012, 04:31:45 PM
There are new signs for Exit 1 (which does NOT need to say "Exit Only" and has not needed it for YEARS, it is now a full interchange--but signs still say it) among other things.
??? 'Exit only' means that the right lane must exit. A partial interchange gets text like 'no northbound re-entry'.
Hmm. Well, there IS an EXIT ONLY where you can't get back on in that direction. It's I-495 (MA) Exit 55, you can only get off northbound. It leads to I-95 - both directions on 55, and going straight takes you to North only. Additionally you can only get on southbound and can't get off SB and one must instead continue one exit on 95 SB. It all probably depends on your state's DOT.

NE2

Quote from: nwrgeek on November 17, 2012, 05:20:23 PM
Hmm. Well, there IS an EXIT ONLY where you can't get back on in that direction. It's I-495 (MA) Exit 55. Probably depends on your state's DOT.
Technically that lane begins before the overhead, but that is probably an erroneous 'exit only'. Note that only the sign right at the exit has it (as of the Goog's 2009 photos).

The MUTCD is clear about use of 'exit only': http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2e.htm#section2E24

I don't know if the MUTCD has any 'no reentry' signs; these seem to vary by state.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

roadman

If you're in the far right lane on I-93 north at Exit 1 in Salem NH, you have to exit (it's been this way since they originally widened the road between the rest area and the Exit 1 off-ramp in the 1970s).  The current overhead sign reflects this, as the black on yellow "Exit Only" banner is centered over the right lane, and does not extend across the full width of the panel.

It will be interesting to see if NHDOT goes with Arrow Per Lane signs for the final configuration.  Anbody have a copy of (or a link to) the sign plans?
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

J N Winkler

#60
Quote from: roadman on November 18, 2012, 11:34:06 AMIt will be interesting to see if NHDOT goes with Arrow Per Lane signs for the final configuration.  Anbody have a copy of (or a link to) the sign plans?

NHDOT has plans online:

ftp://dot.bid:H1ghway@nhftp.admin.state.nh.us/

However, each of the ZIPs is password-protected and you don't get the password unless you order a copy of the paper plans.

There are no words to express the depth of my disgust with this arrangement.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

MVHighways

Quote from: roadman on November 18, 2012, 11:34:06 AM
If you're in the far right lane on I-93 north at Exit 1 in Salem NH, you have to exit (it's been this way since they originally widened the road between the rest area and the Exit 1 off-ramp in the 1970s).  The current overhead sign reflects this, as the black on yellow "Exit Only" banner is centered over the right lane, and does not extend across the full width of the panel.
I noticed that when I was in that area about an hour ago. But I really don't understand WHY that is..

bob7374

The latest information from the MassDOT website on the I-93 projects north of Boston are that signing has been completed from Somerville to Wilmington with the contractor now 'removing old sign foundations' on I-93. The project is 89% complete as of 11/20/2012. There's no longer a place to list project details on the northern work from Wilmington to the NH border but that contract was 86% complete also as of 11/20. (As for south of Boston, no changes seen from driving the Braintree to Randolph stretch last week and MassDOT still lists the contract as 7% complete).

bob7374

Had an event to go to in Boston this evening so I took the opportunity when going home to drive I-93 from Boston to Randolph southbound to check for any progress in updating signage. There were no changes in road signage since my last trip a couple months ago. There is also no evidence on any new signage appearing anytime soon on I-93 itself. No poles for new signage, nor signs (sorry) of digging any foundations for new overhead signs. The one change I did notice was that the Mass Guide Signs leading to, and for, the on-ramp southbound for Exit 9 had been updated from ones indicating I-93/MA 3 to ones showing I-93/US 1, identical to those already present at Exit 15 and Exit 8 northbound. Next time I'll check to see if the other signs, not visible from I-93, in that area have been changed as well. The project is still listed as 8% complete in the MassDOT project listing.

PHLBOS

Quote from: bob7374 on April 03, 2013, 10:53:44 PMThe one change I did notice was that the Mass Guide Signs leading to, and for, the on-ramp southbound for Exit 9 had been updated from ones indicating I-93/MA 3 to ones showing I-93/US 1, identical to those already present at Exit 15 and Exit 8 northbound. Next time I'll check to see if the other signs, not visible from I-93, in that area have been changed as well. The project is still listed as 8% complete in the MassDOT project listing.
So MA 3 is now the proverbial red-haired stepchild along the Southeast Expressway, interesting.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

southshore720

#65
Quote from: bob7374 on April 03, 2013, 10:53:44 PM
There were no changes in road signage since my last trip a couple months ago. There is also no evidence on any new signage appearing anytime soon on I-93 itself. No poles for new signage, nor signs (sorry) of digging any foundations for new overhead signs.

Bob, if you drive down I-93S, you will see before Exit 5 a couple of sign foundations that are installed on the right hand side.  Looks like they are going to start in Randolph first and work their way up.  These installations are probably why the 7% went up to 8% complete.  Progress?

Post Merge: April 04, 2013, 01:54:41 PM

And a question...on I-93 SB, there are newer BGSs for Exit 15 that list "UMass" and "JFK Library" as primary locations.  Shouldn't these be on a secondary sign?  Is that MUTCD compliant?  I'm wondering if they are going to make it primary on NB Exit 14 as well once the button-copy is replaced.  It would be more appropriate if Exit 15 SB said, "Columbia Rd./Dorchester" instead.

PHLBOS

Quote from: southshore720 on April 04, 2013, 11:34:32 AM
And a question...on I-93 SB, there are newer BGSs for Exit 15 that list "UMass" and "JFK Library" as primary locations.  Shouldn't these be on a secondary sign?  Is that MUTCD compliant?  I'm wondering if they are going to make it primary on NB Exit 14 as well once the button-copy is replaced.  It would be more appropriate if Exit 15 SB said, "Columbia Rd./Dorchester" instead.
Who wants to go to Dorchester?  :)
GPS does NOT equal GOD

bob7374

Quote from: southshore720 on April 04, 2013, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on April 03, 2013, 10:53:44 PM
There were no changes in road signage since my last trip a couple months ago. There is also no evidence on any new signage appearing anytime soon on I-93 itself. No poles for new signage, nor signs (sorry) of digging any foundations for new overhead signs.

Bob, if you drive down I-93S, you will see before Exit 5 a couple of sign foundations that are installed on the right hand side.  Looks like they are going to start in Randolph first and work their way up.  These installations are probably why the 7% went up to 8% complete.  Progress?

Post Merge: April 04, 2013, 01:54:41 PM

And a question...on I-93 SB, there are newer BGSs for Exit 15 that list "UMass" and "JFK Library" as primary locations.  Shouldn't these be on a secondary sign?  Is that MUTCD compliant?  I'm wondering if they are going to make it primary on NB Exit 14 as well once the button-copy is replaced.  It would be more appropriate if Exit 15 SB said, "Columbia Rd./Dorchester" instead.
Thanks for pointing out the foundations for the MA 28 exit, the southbound sign was already replaced a couple years ago to the current design, so I assume these are before the northbound exit. It was dark, so I must have missed them.

As for the newer Exit 15 signage, the RFP for the contract specifically mentioned that the contractor was not to replace these signs but to prepare new text that was to be mounted on backing that would cover over the wording on the current sign. Perhaps to fix the MUTCD compliance issue as mentioned. Columbia Road also goes to South Boston, if no one wants to go to Dorchester.  :D

southshore720

The foundations were BEFORE Exits 5B-A SB at the 1 mile and 1/2 mile marks.  Before the recently-replaced MUTCD sign at Exit 5A.  I haven't noticed any NB yet.

Alps

Quote from: PHLBOS on April 04, 2013, 08:10:10 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on April 03, 2013, 10:53:44 PMThe one change I did notice was that the Mass Guide Signs leading to, and for, the on-ramp southbound for Exit 9 had been updated from ones indicating I-93/MA 3 to ones showing I-93/US 1, identical to those already present at Exit 15 and Exit 8 northbound. Next time I'll check to see if the other signs, not visible from I-93, in that area have been changed as well. The project is still listed as 8% complete in the MassDOT project listing.
So MA 3 is now the proverbial red-haired stepchild along the Southeast Expressway, interesting.
Oh, I'm going Fictional here and I know it, but it would make sense to terminate MA 3 where it meets I-93 and then have US 3 begin at the Storrow Drive interchange. No one thinks of them as the same route.

roadman

Quote from: Steve on April 08, 2013, 05:47:52 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 04, 2013, 08:10:10 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on April 03, 2013, 10:53:44 PMThe one change I did notice was that the Mass Guide Signs leading to, and for, the on-ramp southbound for Exit 9 had been updated from ones indicating I-93/MA 3 to ones showing I-93/US 1, identical to those already present at Exit 15 and Exit 8 northbound. Next time I'll check to see if the other signs, not visible from I-93, in that area have been changed as well. The project is still listed as 8% complete in the MassDOT project listing.
So MA 3 is now the proverbial red-haired stepchild along the Southeast Expressway, interesting.
Oh, I'm going Fictional here and I know it, but it would make sense to terminate MA 3 where it meets I-93 and then have US 3 begin at the Storrow Drive interchange. No one thinks of them as the same route.

If the locals insist on retaining MA 3 south of Braintree (as opposed to a new designation), you could also change 3 north of Cambridge from an US route to a MA route, and have New Hampshire change their portion from Nashua north to a NH route as well.  Based on the current route numbering policies, I can't imagine AASHTO rejecting that proposal.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

Alps

Quote from: roadman on April 08, 2013, 07:34:50 PM
Quote from: Steve on April 08, 2013, 05:47:52 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 04, 2013, 08:10:10 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on April 03, 2013, 10:53:44 PMThe one change I did notice was that the Mass Guide Signs leading to, and for, the on-ramp southbound for Exit 9 had been updated from ones indicating I-93/MA 3 to ones showing I-93/US 1, identical to those already present at Exit 15 and Exit 8 northbound. Next time I'll check to see if the other signs, not visible from I-93, in that area have been changed as well. The project is still listed as 8% complete in the MassDOT project listing.
So MA 3 is now the proverbial red-haired stepchild along the Southeast Expressway, interesting.
Oh, I'm going Fictional here and I know it, but it would make sense to terminate MA 3 where it meets I-93 and then have US 3 begin at the Storrow Drive interchange. No one thinks of them as the same route.

If the locals insist on retaining MA 3 south of Braintree (as opposed to a new designation), you could also change 3 north of Cambridge from an US route to a MA route, and have New Hampshire change their portion from Nashua north to a NH route as well.  Based on the current route numbering policies, I can't imagine AASHTO rejecting that proposal.
No. Why? US 3 is NH's backbone. A state can have two same-numbered routes without an issue.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Steve on April 08, 2013, 05:47:52 PMOh, I'm going Fictional here and I know it, but it would make sense to terminate MA 3 where it meets I-93 and then have US 3 begin at the Storrow Drive interchange. No one thinks of them as the same route.
If one did that, one would likely need to redesignate most of the northern stretch of MA 3A in the South Shore as an extension of MA 203.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Alps

Quote from: PHLBOS on April 09, 2013, 08:38:56 AM
Quote from: Steve on April 08, 2013, 05:47:52 PMOh, I'm going Fictional here and I know it, but it would make sense to terminate MA 3 where it meets I-93 and then have US 3 begin at the Storrow Drive interchange. No one thinks of them as the same route.
If one did that, one would likely need to redesignate most of the northern stretch of MA 3A in the South Shore as an extension of MA 203.
I dunno. You have, for example, MD Business 3 extending beyond the terminus of MD 3, when it ought to be Business I-97 (or just part of MD 3, really). I have no problem with running 203 down 3A, as that road has changed numbers many times with no effect on residents. But really, it is a direct northern extension of the entire rest of 3A, so why not just let it be? If you want to gripe, gripe at there being two 3As for two different classes of routes, and as far as I can tell, no mileage connection between them, unlike the MA 1As.

PHLBOS

Steve, the reasoning behind my suggestion of redesignating part of 3A as 203 has to do with the fact that if the northern terminus of MA 3 was indeed truncated to the Braintree split; MA 3A's northern terminus would be a few miles beyond where its parent route ends.

It has nothing to do about there being two different 3As.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



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