I advocated 10 years ago in a T-log (transportation logistics) class that I 40 should be tolled for all the cross country travel. Those funds could be used for upgrading a lot of the state roads because the state gets little federal funding for its interstates and US Routes. I also advocated 10 years ago that I-49 would be a benefit to the corporations of NW Arkansas. I suggested that the unbuilt stretch from Ft. Smith to Texarkana be tolled to help pay for funding on I-49 through NW Arkansas. That area is one of the fastest growing areas of the country and this should have been done years ago. IMO. Also the Funds could accelerate the Interstate 57 building in NE Arkansas. That area is in desperate need for funds for its roads. Thoughts?
I have a feeling I-57 in Arkansas will be completed to the Missouri border well before I-49 is built between Fort Smith and Texarkana. I-57 isn't having to cut through as much mountainous territory.
I'm not sure about the legality of putting tolls on I-40. It most certainly would not be politically popular at all with voters. For some long distance traffic putting tolls on that corridor might shift at least some I-40 traffic bound for the East Coast onto I-44 & I-70.
Putting tolls on I-49 is a toss up. It could work if I-69 and I-369 are completed all the way to Texarkana. If I-69 and I-369 aren't done then there might not be enough vehicle traffic funneling onto I-49 to get enough toll revenue for the road to pay for itself. Then you also have to figure in the shunpike factor. US-69 in Oklahoma is already a pretty heavily traveled corridor, especially heavy in terms of truck traffic. It's not an Interstate, but it's not a toll road either. Tolls on I-49 in Arkansas could divert more Northbound Texas traffic into Oklahoma rather than Arkansas.
Wal Mart would not allow a toll on I-49. If this would be tolled think of all those goods that are distributed out of Bentonville that would be tolled.
If toll roads do come to Arkansas, they should come as HOT Lanes first.
I would not only toll I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana, but I'd also toll I-69 across the state whenever it gets built.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on August 08, 2016, 03:52:52 PM
Wal Mart would not allow a toll on I-49. If this would be tolled think of all those goods that are distributed out of Bentonville that would be tolled.
Walmart has dozens of DCs across the country. Everything doesn't come in and out of Bentonville
Quote from: US 41 on August 08, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
I would not only toll I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana, but I'd also toll I-69 across the state whenever it gets built.
That would require maintaining US 71 as the free alternate to 49, which AHTD already struggles with
Add in a 4 lane Turnpike across North Arkansas (US 412) I'd Gladly Pay 10 bucks each way from Harrison to Walnut Ridge and so would most every one going to Branson on vacation.
Quote from: bjrush on August 08, 2016, 06:58:40 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on August 08, 2016, 03:52:52 PM
Wal Mart would not allow a toll on I-49. If this would be tolled think of all those goods that are distributed out of Bentonville that would be tolled.
Walmart has dozens of DCs across the country. Everything doesn't come in and out of Bentonville
I know but there is a distribution site in Bentonville.
Quote from: US71 on August 08, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 08, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
I would not only toll I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana, but I'd also toll I-69 across the state whenever it gets built.
That would require maintaining US 71 as the free alternate to 49, which AHTD already struggles with
They're still going to have to maintain it either way. Tolling 49 would mean that they wouldn't have to come up with as much money to maintain 49, so wouldn't that mean there would be more money available to maintain 71?
The current plan is to upgrade some of the existing segments of US-71 to Interstate standards, particularly certain stretches that run through the mountains. If I-49 was tolled it would have to be built as an entirely new terrain facility and US-71 would have to be maintained as well. That's a more expensive proposition. If traffic counts on the toll road aren't high enough then the whole endeavor just ends up bleeding even more red ink.
I know it would jack up the price, but would it be possible to build Interstate 49 as tunnels in certain places along the more mountainous segments of the future Interstate?
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 09, 2016, 01:34:57 PM
The current plan is to upgrade some of the existing segments of US-71 to Interstate standards, particularly certain stretches that run through the mountains.
[citation needed]
I'm pretty sure the plans I saw included keeping all of the existing US 71.
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2016, 01:28:40 PM
Quote from: US71 on August 08, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 08, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
I would not only toll I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana, but I'd also toll I-69 across the state whenever it gets built.
That would require maintaining US 71 as the free alternate to 49, which AHTD already struggles with
They're still going to have to maintain it either way. Tolling 49 would mean that they wouldn't have to come up with as much money to maintain 49, so wouldn't that mean there would be more money available to maintain 71?
Have you driven 71 between Alma and West Fork? There's a section just below Artists' Point that is slowly washing away. AHTD keeps patching it, but in reality probably needs to be rebuilt, yet they never have any money.
Quote from: US71 on August 09, 2016, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2016, 01:28:40 PM
Quote from: US71 on August 08, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 08, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
I would not only toll I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana, but I'd also toll I-69 across the state whenever it gets built.
That would require maintaining US 71 as the free alternate to 49, which AHTD already struggles with
They're still going to have to maintain it either way. Tolling 49 would mean that they wouldn't have to come up with as much money to maintain 49, so wouldn't that mean there would be more money available to maintain 71?
Have you driven 71 between Alma and West Fork? There's a section just below Artists' Point that is slowly washing away. AHTD keeps patching it, but in reality probably needs to be rebuilt, yet they never have any money.
My point is if they can't afford to maintain 71, then how do they expect to maintain (or even build) 49? I'm saying tolls would be very a reasonable option for building and maintaining 49 when they do eventually build it.
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2016, 10:34:18 PM
Quote from: US71 on August 09, 2016, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2016, 01:28:40 PM
Quote from: US71 on August 08, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 08, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
I would not only toll I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana, but I'd also toll I-69 across the state whenever it gets built.
That would require maintaining US 71 as the free alternate to 49, which AHTD already struggles with
They're still going to have to maintain it either way. Tolling 49 would mean that they wouldn't have to come up with as much money to maintain 49, so wouldn't that mean there would be more money available to maintain 71?
Have you driven 71 between Alma and West Fork? There's a section just below Artists' Point that is slowly washing away. AHTD keeps patching it, but in reality probably needs to be rebuilt, yet they never have any money.
My point is if they can't afford to maintain 71, then how do they expect to maintain (or even build) 49? I'm saying tolls would be very a reasonable option for building and maintaining 49 when they do eventually build it.
So build a toll road and let the free route rot?
Quote from: NE2I'm pretty sure the plans I saw included keeping all of the existing US 71.
The proposed route of I-49 looks like it overlaps US-71 briefly North of Ashdown and has some significant overlap between Mena and Waldron, in mountainous territory.
If I-49 was built as a freeway it could use up the existing space occupied by US-71 where the route does overlap. That would save at least some money on ROW costs. A toll road has to be built entirely on new terrain. That's more ROW to buy, and the whole thing has to be paid for via toll revenue, which I think could be a money losing option.
Quote from: US71 on August 09, 2016, 10:53:16 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2016, 10:34:18 PM
Quote from: US71 on August 09, 2016, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2016, 01:28:40 PM
Quote from: US71 on August 08, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 08, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
I would not only toll I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana, but I'd also toll I-69 across the state whenever it gets built.
That would require maintaining US 71 as the free alternate to 49, which AHTD already struggles with
They're still going to have to maintain it either way. Tolling 49 would mean that they wouldn't have to come up with as much money to maintain 49, so wouldn't that mean there would be more money available to maintain 71?
Have you driven 71 between Alma and West Fork? There's a section just below Artists' Point that is slowly washing away. AHTD keeps patching it, but in reality probably needs to be rebuilt, yet they never have any money.
My point is if they can't afford to maintain 71, then how do they expect to maintain (or even build) 49? I'm saying tolls would be very a reasonable option for building and maintaining 49 when they do eventually build it.
So build a toll road and let the free route rot?
No that is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is that the toll route will fund itself. Then you can use gas tax money to take care of US 71. If Arkansas already struggles to take care of US 71, then how do you expect them to take care of it if the gas tax is being used to take care of both highways. People would be willing to pay to use I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana.
Now based on the last comment I wasn't aware that some of I-49 will overlap US 71. So simply you toll the new sections and you leave the overlaps with 71 free.
The region has been served well by US 71. There is no need to add I-49.
Quote from: US 41 on August 10, 2016, 08:02:37 AM
Quote from: US71 on August 09, 2016, 10:53:16 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2016, 10:34:18 PM
Quote from: US71 on August 09, 2016, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2016, 01:28:40 PM
Quote from: US71 on August 08, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 08, 2016, 05:39:09 PM
I would not only toll I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana, but I'd also toll I-69 across the state whenever it gets built.
That would require maintaining US 71 as the free alternate to 49, which AHTD already struggles with
They're still going to have to maintain it either way. Tolling 49 would mean that they wouldn't have to come up with as much money to maintain 49, so wouldn't that mean there would be more money available to maintain 71?
Have you driven 71 between Alma and West Fork? There's a section just below Artists' Point that is slowly washing away. AHTD keeps patching it, but in reality probably needs to be rebuilt, yet they never have any money.
My point is if they can't afford to maintain 71, then how do they expect to maintain (or even build) 49? I'm saying tolls would be very a reasonable option for building and maintaining 49 when they do eventually build it.
So build a toll road and let the free route rot?
No that is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is that the toll route will fund itself. Then you can use gas tax money to take care of US 71. If Arkansas already struggles to take care of US 71, then how do you expect them to take care of it if the gas tax is being used to take care of both highways. People would be willing to pay to use I-49 from Ft. Smith to Texarkana.
Now based on the last comment I wasn't aware that some of I-49 will overlap US 71. So simply you toll the new sections and you leave the overlaps with 71 free.
Every single person I talk to that goes to Dallas,Texarkana, Houston, Sheveport, or even New Orleans from time to time say they'd pay a toll. I've recently been asking how about 10 bucks each way and they don't hesitate to say yes.
The idea that most people from NWA, like my Nephew, go to 430 in west Little Rock to go to places like Arkladelphia or Hot Springs is insane. But that is the best route according to them. They would gladly hand over cash for a more direct route. Same goes for a new terrain 412 from Harrison to Walnut Ridge. They'd fork it over without question. No one up here would co tinge to go through Conway to get to Jonesboro anymore or Little Rock to get to or through Memphis.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on August 10, 2016, 11:58:15 AM
The region has been served well by US 71. There is no need to add I-49.
This is hilarious.
I think $10 would be a little steep in price for for a toll road roughly 145 miles long. I pay about $11 in tolls on 3 turnpikes to drive on I-44 from Lawton clear up to Joplin and the Missouri state line. That's a little over 300 miles.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 10, 2016, 12:40:29 PM
I think $10 would be a little steep in price for for a toll road roughly 145 miles long. I pay about $11 in tolls on 3 turnpikes to drive on I-44 from Lawton clear up to Joplin and the Missouri state line. That's a little over 300 miles.
I guess it's all relative. The Indiana Toll Road at 156 miles long costs $10.50 without EZ Pass.
And then Ontario's 407 ETR at only 67 miles (108 km) long costs between $10.54 USD and $15.11 USD without a transponder depending on the time of day.
Those prices are just insane. I am surprised that NE2 hasn't chimed in about this being a regressive tax scheme.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on August 08, 2016, 03:52:52 PM
Wal Mart would not allow a toll on I-49. If this would be tolled think of all those goods that are distributed out of Bentonville that would be tolled.
Walmart rolls down the Cherokee Turnpike out of Bentonville, this is silly as well. Right now, Walmart corporate is all about quality of life in NWA.
Quote from: 7/8 on August 10, 2016, 12:52:01 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 10, 2016, 12:40:29 PM
I think $10 would be a little steep in price for for a toll road roughly 145 miles long. I pay about $11 in tolls on 3 turnpikes to drive on I-44 from Lawton clear up to Joplin and the Missouri state line. That's a little over 300 miles.
I guess it's all relative. The Indiana Toll Road at 156 miles long costs $10.50 without EZ Pass.
And then Ontario's 407 ETR at only 67 miles (108 km) long costs between $10.54 USD and $15.11 USD without a transponder depending on the time of day.
It certainly is all relative. The toll road from Nuevo Laredo to Monterrey is 205 pesos (between 11 and 15 USD, depending on the exchange rate), and it's 75 miles long. Whether it's worth it to you or not depends on what you're bypassing.
Are there any toll facilities in Arkansas?
I don't think much has been mentioned in the news or legislation in regards to toll roads ever? Correct me if I'm wrong. I have talked to numerous people in college up there who would pay the toll on I49 to control cities in Texas because it saves a hell of a lot of time. A 2-3 dollar toll over 20 years would make the tolls pay for itself. It would also help other projects in the NWA area (overhead lighting on 49 comes to mind). Also I agree with a toll route from Jonesboro to control cities in NWA. Its moot but I love the feedback. Thanks.
Quote from: US 41 on August 11, 2016, 04:57:13 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on August 11, 2016, 04:23:14 PM
Are there any toll facilities in Arkansas?
No.
At this time, it is against state highway regulations (except for the XNA private toll road)
Someone mentioned Hot lanes before toll roads? ,I only see that happening maybe in some areas of Little Rock. I don't know how rush hour operates in Little Rock but I don't think they are needed. Living in Atlanta now with 8 mi!l in the metro area. Hot lanes AKA Lexus lanes are a band aid on a bullet wound...
More than half of the incoming freshman classes at the U of A are from east Texas and the Metroplex. This toll road would instantly replace US69 as the preferred route to NWA. No one would protest too much from this side of the state. Anything to get it done.
I look at it like this, If I drive to Dallas once or twice year(and I do) paying the toll is insurance against a much more costly tickets via the speed traps from the Texas line to McAllister OK. Quite Frankly, I'm shocked OK hasn't turnpiked it already. Maybe those shitstain towns carry that much sway.
Good point. In my time in NWA. A lot of the students were from DFW... Or Houston... As well from other parts of the west coast because of the 3 corporations in NWA. They always asked me why Arkansas roads/politics/etc was so far behind considering that the NWA area overall is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. I advocated 49 in the fayettville Area being widened to 8 lanes 10 years ago because of the student traffic on weekdays and game traffic on Saturdays...
Quote from: Wayward Memphian on August 11, 2016, 09:55:26 PM
Quite Frankly, I'm shocked OK hasn't turnpiked it already. Maybe those shitstain towns carry that much sway.
They do. The last time one was proposed (late 90's), the rep who authored the bill asked the committee chair to not hear the bill because of the problems it was causing him.
p.s. It is spelled "McAlester". Home of the late Gene Stipe, who was the king of the pork barrel in OK politics.
Quote from: Tomahawkin on August 11, 2016, 10:40:36 PM
Good point. In my time in NWA. A lot of the students were from DFW... Or Houston... As well from other parts of the west coast because of the 3 corporations in NWA. They always asked me why Arkansas roads/politics/etc was so far behind considering that the NWA area overall is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. I advocated 49 in the fayettville Area being widened to 8 lanes 10 years ago because of the student traffic on weekdays and game traffic on Saturdays...
Well, it's being upgraded to 6 now. Give it a few more years and they'll want 8.
BTW: AHTD just took bids to fix the 49/112 cluster f*ck.
Quote from: US71 on August 12, 2016, 07:15:05 AM
Quote from: Tomahawkin on August 11, 2016, 10:40:36 PM
Good point. In my time in NWA. A lot of the students were from DFW... Or Houston... As well from other parts of the west coast because of the 3 corporations in NWA. They always asked me why Arkansas roads/politics/etc was so far behind considering that the NWA area overall is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. I advocated 49 in the fayettville Area being widened to 8 lanes 10 years ago because of the student traffic on weekdays and game traffic on Saturdays...
Well, it's being upgraded to 6 now. Give it a few more years and they'll want 8.
BTW: AHTD just took bids to fix the 49/112 cluster f*ck.
They'll piecemeal 4 lane sections in after the whole 3 lane project is done. I see it happening between US 412/Sunset and Don Tyson in Springale and Lowell and Pinnacle exit in Rogers.
None of that involves bridgework just addin a lane on the right hand side each way.
Quote from: TomahawkinI advocated 10 years ago in a T-log (transportation logistics) class that I 40 should be tolled for all the cross country travel. Those funds could be used for upgrading a lot of the state roads...
Not under current Federal law, and for two reasons. First, there are currently no slots open in the pilot program that would allow a state to begin tolls on a section of currently-free Interstate highway. Second, Federal law requires that any such tolls collected must be used on the roadway being tolled. They could not be diverted for
"upgrading a lot of the state roads".
Quote...because the state gets little federal funding for its interstates and US Routes.
According to FHWA, Arkansas got over half-a-billion (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/legsregs/directives/notices/n4510802/n4510802_t1.cfm) in Fiscal Year 2016. They received more than 23 other states. Hardly what I'd call
"little Federal funding" though I will be the first to agree that the Highway Trust Fund is broke and needs more revenue.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 10, 2016, 12:40:29 PM
I think $10 would be a little steep in price for for a toll road roughly 145 miles long. I pay about $11 in tolls on 3 turnpikes to drive on I-44 from Lawton clear up to Joplin and the Missouri state line. That's a little over 300 miles.
And those 3 turnpikes were built for $156 million in the 50s and 60s, with the original bonds long since paid off. The money that comes in now just pays for maintenance, occasional upgrades, and helping to pay off the other OTA roads. Given the terrain between Fort Smith and Texarkana, that's probably a $1.5 billion highway to construct, and 7c per mile seems pretty cheap for that. The private section of SH130 in Texas (between the SH130/SH45 interchange south of Austin and I-10 east of San Antonio) cost $1.4 billion and runs about 19 cents per mile in tolls. Arkansas might not need to charge quite so much because it will have higher traffic volumes due to the lack of a good alternate route, but $10 for the entire length still seems low.
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 13, 2016, 12:08:43 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 10, 2016, 12:40:29 PM
I think $10 would be a little steep in price for for a toll road roughly 145 miles long. I pay about $11 in tolls on 3 turnpikes to drive on I-44 from Lawton clear up to Joplin and the Missouri state line. That's a little over 300 miles.
And those 3 turnpikes were built for $156 million in the 50s and 60s, with the original bonds long since paid off. The money that comes in now just pays for maintenance, occasional upgrades, and helping to pay off the other OTA roads. Given the terrain between Fort Smith and Texarkana, that's probably a $1.5 billion highway to construct, and 7c per mile seems pretty cheap for that. The private section of SH130 in Texas (between the SH130/SH45 interchange south of Austin and I-10 east of San Antonio) cost $1.4 billion and runs about 19 cents per mile in tolls. Arkansas might not need to charge quite so much because it will have higher traffic volumes due to the lack of a good alternate route, but $10 for the entire length still seems low.
If it needs to be twelve, then it needs to be 12. Look, I can't find anyone under 50 that sez no to the toll idea especially when told the old highway wouldd remail free but less maintained. Segment it into two runs with the Mena bypass area free. A new alignment would allow it to scenic as all get out like I-49 from Alma to Fayetteville and prohibit the bilboards.
My question is,.could Arkansas built it as a state Road without federal designation to get around the current road block and if the situation changes, then designate it as an Interstate. Call it Ark Turnpike 49.
Arkansas can build it as a toll road and call it I-49 if they want. The federal problems only apply to adding new tolls to Interstates that were built with federal funds, including I-40. The problem with building I-49 is getting the state legislature to decide it's important enough to build it that way, and getting enough voter support that they won't get tossed out of office for doing it.
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 14, 2016, 04:52:14 PM
Arkansas can build it as a toll road and call it I-49 if they want. The federal problems only apply to adding new tolls to Interstates that were built with federal funds, including I-40. The problem with building I-49 is getting the state legislature to decide it's important enough to build it that way, and getting enough voter support that they won't get tossed out of office for doing it.
They need to be tossed out, anyway
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 14, 2016, 04:52:14 PM
The problem with building I-49 is getting the state legislature to decide it's important enough to build it that way, and getting enough voter support that they won't get tossed out of office for doing it.
I think most people in Arkansas will be happy when it gets finished, regardless of whether it is tolled or not.
Quote from: US 41 on August 15, 2016, 12:07:55 PM
I think most people in Arkansas will be happy when it gets finished, regardless of whether it is tolled or not.
I'm sure they'd be happy to have their cake and eat it too, but there are economic realities in the world. Do you think the people of Arkansas would vote to approve a 10c/gal increase in fuel taxes to bring in another billion dollars a year to pay for it? Because that might be enough to build I-49 and try to catch up on the rest of the work that the state highway system needs.
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 15, 2016, 06:48:31 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 15, 2016, 12:07:55 PM
I think most people in Arkansas will be happy when it gets finished, regardless of whether it is tolled or not.
I'm sure they'd be happy to have their cake and eat it too, but there are economic realities in the world. Do you think the people of Arkansas would vote to approve a 10c/gal increase in fuel taxes to bring in another billion dollars a year to pay for it? Because that might be enough to build I-49 and try to catch up on the rest of the work that the state highway system needs.
My argument for tolls vs raising the gas tax is that you're not forcing anyone to use the toll road. If you don't want to pay tolls then don't use the toll road. You don't get that option when you raise the gas tax. Also the toll road would only effect western Arkansas, an area that currently doesn't even have a freeway. If you raise the gas tax that affects the whole state.
The flip side of that argument is a gasoline tax, such as a 10¢ increase, would make a completed I-49 not a toll road. Completing I-49 is something that would likely affect all of Arkansas, in a positive way.
Gasoline prices already fluctuate like crazy. A 10¢ ding at the pumps isn't going to be all that noticeable. As it is the sudden price hikes or spikes we already endure don't do anything at all to increase road funding revenue. If anything it makes the proportionately small amount collected worth even less. High oil prices translate to higher prices for steel, concrete, asphalt, plastics and any other building materials that could be used to build or maintain a highway. The people involved in the highway building and maintenance process expect to get paid more too to weather their living cost increases.
IMHO, fuel taxes ought to be rated at a percentage of the price, not a flat rate. That would cover the high inflation on materials & service costs. And when oil prices drop those taxes would be taking a smaller bite out of the oil industry pie.
Considering the fact some toll road projects have gone bankrupt, like TX-130 on the outskirts of Austin, I think putting up toll booths on I-49 between Fort Smith and Texarkana would be one hell of a gamble, one likely to lose. The state government would be wise to focus group such a proposal with people living in that region. My gut tells me residents there would be shun-piking a tolled I-49 in droves and sticking with US-71 instead.
An increase in the gas tax wouldn't just build I-49, it would also fund 6 laning I-40, and building the rest of the US 67 freeway, and building I-69, and 4 laning other corridors that need an upgrade but not a freeway, and rebuilding some bridges that are in poor shape (not all at once, of course). Yes, NWA has a lot to gain right now with I-49 and US 412 being major projects in public view, but I expect that AHTD would spread the wealth around and make sure everyone sees some benefit.
Linking the gas tax to the price of oil/gas doesn't work. The price of steel or concrete isn't really tied to that, and it screws your state when a bunch of Arabs get together and decide to fuck over Russia by artificially decreasing the price (as is happening right now). Better to tie it to the CPI or some other more accurate measure of inflation. As for the TX 130 bankruptcy, a lot of that is because it's privately run by a company that needs to show a profit (and jacks up the toll rates accordingly) rather than a public road that just needs to pay for itself. Private operation is a tricky thing to get right, but I-49 might have the edge over SH130 or the Indiana Toll Road because US 71 isn't a 4 lane alternative that avoids most of the major towns like I-35 or US 30 are.
Comparing I-49 from Texarkana to Ft. Smith to TX-130 is apples and oranges.
The section of I-49 we are talking about would be the middle part of the I-49 and I-69 (Gulf and Mexico) and I-35 and I-29 Canada/upper Midwest) funnel.
Quote from: dfwmapperLinking the gas tax to the price of oil/gas doesn't work. The price of steel or concrete isn't really tied to that, and it screws your state when a bunch of Arabs get together and decide to fuck over Russia by artificially decreasing the price (as is happening right now).
Do you think the current gas tax system does work?
The price of steel, concrete, etc. is indeed affected by petroleum prices since it takes a bunch of fuel to make those building materials and a bunch of fuel to ship them various places. I work in the sign industry and I've seen our materials costs for steel, aluminum, plastics, etc. all go way the hell up when oil prices started spiking 15 years ago. The prices have fallen some since the collapse of oil prices and demand from places like China has faltered.
As for the activities of cartels, normally they're out to screw countries with high prices like what they did to the U.S. in the 1970's with the Arab Oil Embargo. Right now it's a free for all with various nations doing whatever they can out of desperation to maintain market share. There's hardly anything "cartel organized" about it.
Global stock traders & speculators have been screwing taxpayers on what they have to pay for infrastructure. Rampant "nation building" and globalism has made a lot of big civil engineering projects our country would like to do far more expensive. A flat gasoline tax that cannot adjust to inflation on building materials adds much more misery and impossibility to the formula. The "cherry" on top of that shit sundae is the ever growing amount of regulatory and legal hurdles any projects must face. The procedures and delays coming from all that balloon the cost even more. The United States has very little ability to build big things under this setup. The powers that be have zero "big picture" view of anything anymore.
Quote from: Wayward MemphianComparing I-49 from Texarkana to Ft. Smith to TX-130 is apples and oranges.
Not when it comes to the simple issue of a new toll road needing at least a certain number of cars and tolls paid on it to keep from bleeding red ink.
A government run toll road might have more flexibility to lose money than a privately owned facility. The red ink still doesn't go over well with taxpayers, most of whom hate toll roads already. They would really hate added taxes to make up for toll revenue short falls. I don't think an I-49 toll road winding through the Ouachita Mountains is going to attract many drivers from Eastern Oklahoma or Western Arkansas. I'm sure there's a lot of politically very conservative people in those parts who would flat out refuse to use I-49 if it was a toll road. My grandfather was an old Okie who would drive an hour out of the way to avoid using the H.E. Bailey turnpike on road trips to Oklahoma City. I'm sure there's lots of people with the very same attitude in the region where I-49 has to be built.
Quote from: Wayward MemphianThe section of I-49 we are talking about would be the middle part of the I-49 and I-69 (Gulf and Mexico) and I-35 and I-29 Canada/upper Midwest) funnel.
I can see commercial traffic from ports of Houston or New Orleans choosing to take an I-49 toll road if headed to Kansas City, Rogers-Springdale, Omaha, the Twin Cities or Winnipeg. But that works only if I-69 and I-369 are 100% complete in Texas.
I don't see I-49 in Western Arkansas pulling a lot of traffic away from I-35 and US-69 in Oklahoma, especially if I-49 in Western Arkansas is built as a toll road. Both I-35 and US-69 travel far more gradual routes. I-49 will be on a more mountainous path that's far less friendly to trucks. Some steep toll prices would keep commercial vehicles away in droves.
Prices on steel and concrete might have fallen some, but not as much as the price of oil. China might be cutting back their construction, but it's full speed ahead here with the economy doing relatively well. I'm not in favor of a flat gas tax, I'm in favor of one that's tied to something more useful (and less easily manipulated) than the price of oil. The CPI is an easy one because it's widely recognized and inherently accounts for increases in the price of oil or the minimum wage or anything else that might change the cost of goods. It might not be perfect, but it will at least be more predictable than watching half of your revenue evaporate when oil takes a tumble.
I didn't know how tough financially will it be to finish Interstate 49 in Arkansas. Geesh!
Quote from: KamKam on August 17, 2016, 06:49:17 PM
I didn't know how tough financially will it be to finish Interstate 49 in Arkansas. Geesh!
10 years ago, they didn't even have the money for a 2-Lane the Bella Vista Bypass.