AARoads Forum

I just came back from vacation in Hawaii, and found a new lane marking I hadn't seen before on the Freeways.


When there is an on-ramp, the discourage people from getting into the lane where the ramp is merging, there is a solid white line towards the lane to the left, with the dashed line (in this case, bots dots) on the side towards the ramp.  It is very intuitive, and might help with preventing accidents at on ramps, or make people think ahead about what their plans are.


(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawaiihighways.com%2FH1-lane-markings-large.jpg&hash=cbe42aa900dcd633a3650da56e913c06870a39b3)


In Washington, the typical "fake median" that is often used in the US to redirect traffic around left turn lanes, doesn't have an end cap.  So the yellow line  directs through traffic to the right, but doesn't curve back in to the center line, as is common in the rest of the US.


In Indiana, there are many places that, instead of putting in a turn lane, there is a wide spot in the road, lined like an extra line, with a single separator line.  This provides a place for traffic to stop to make a safe left turn, but through traffic can safely get around to the right, without always having get to the right. 


What innovative, unique, or strange lane markings have you seen in your travels.

Isn't the typical road marking for that purpose the extremely short dashed lines?

Connecticut's use of a white solid line with a white dashed line to denote the end of climbing lanes is one example I can think of.

I don't know if they're still doing this, but about a decade ago, the PennDOT district in the Lehigh Valley area started painting wide diagonal lines and the word "NO"   (https://goo.gl/maps/KU3DnNPkiem) on shoulders in locations where motorists are likely to attempt using them to cut around stopped traffic.

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 14, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
In Indiana, there are many places that, instead of putting in a turn lane, there is a wide spot in the road, lined like an extra line, with a single separator line.  This provides a place for traffic to stop to make a safe left turn, but through traffic can safely get around to the right, without always having get to the right. 

They're in NY too.  I never realized they weren't ubiquitous.

Québec also uses the solid+dashed line with merging in places.

Quote from: UCFKnights on September 14, 2016, 01:15:39 PM
Isn't the typical road marking for that purpose the extremely short dashed lines?

You're thinking of ending lanes.  This is for the lane adjacent to the one that ends.
https://goo.gl/maps/1W97mPFbkMN2

Oklahoma City paints a squiggly line down the center of the lane when entering a school zone.

Around here those lines would be worthless because when traffic is slow, people will cut over to the right into the onramp acceleration lane in order to pass a few cars (especially on I-395 near the Pentagon for some reason). Damn annoying, especially if you're coming up the ramp, and I have no doubt it's one reason why so many people here try not to let anyone merge onto the highway in slow traffic.

In Perth, major 'exit only' lanes transition from short to very long broken lines as you reach the nose, as if to say "hey, time to move over!"
https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.9155578,115.8229986,3a,37.8y,350.37h,77.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOrYp0dzXqFxpMHzjVL53Gw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.9155578,115.8229986,3a,37.8y,350.37h,77.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOrYp0dzXqFxpMHzjVL53Gw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 15, 2016, 07:36:38 AM
Around here those lines would be worthless because when traffic is slow, people will cut over to the right into the onramp acceleration lane in order to pass a few cars (especially on I-395 near the Pentagon for some reason). Damn annoying, especially if you're coming up the ramp, and I have no doubt it's one reason why so many people here try not to let anyone merge onto the highway in slow traffic.

Same around Chicago.  Lines, what lines?  We don't need no steenkin' lines!  This is a place where a street marked for two lanes (with a dashed yellow line down the middle) magically becomes a four lane street until someone parks in the lane (then it's a race to the death to move over and repeat after the parked car).  Bicycle lanes suddenly (and illegally) become motorcycle lanes.  Stop lines might as well not exist.  This is a place where people pull into the opposing lane (not uncommonly either) to get to the left turn lane.  A place where cutting over to a right hand exit from the far left hand lane is not uncommon to see, and not just for rush hour either.

Quote from: briantroutman on September 14, 2016, 01:32:03 PM
I don't know if they're still doing this, but about a decade ago, the PennDOT district in the Lehigh Valley area started painting wide diagonal lines and the word "NO"   (https://goo.gl/maps/KU3DnNPkiem) on shoulders in locations where motorists are likely to attempt using them to cut around stopped traffic.

Without the lettering, that's typical NYCDOT and NYSDOT Region 11 practice. Found elsewhere in the state where backups are common.

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 14, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I just came back from vacation in Hawaii, and found a new lane marking I hadn't seen before on the Freeways.

When there is an on-ramp, the discourage people from getting into the lane where the ramp is merging, there is a solid white line towards the lane to the left, with the dashed line (in this case, bots dots) on the side towards the ramp.  It is very intuitive, and might help with preventing accidents at on ramps, or make people think ahead about what their plans are.

That's just typical pavement marking for passing/no passing zones. We associate it most often with yellow centerlines, but it's frequently used between same-direction lanes as well.

Quote from: empirestate on September 15, 2016, 12:45:54 PM

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 14, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I just came back from vacation in Hawaii, and found a new lane marking I hadn't seen before on the Freeways.

When there is an on-ramp, the discourage people from getting into the lane where the ramp is merging, there is a solid white line towards the lane to the left, with the dashed line (in this case, bots dots) on the side towards the ramp.  It is very intuitive, and might help with preventing accidents at on ramps, or make people think ahead about what their plans are.

That's just typical pavement marking for passing/no passing zones. We associate it most often with yellow centerlines, but it's frequently used between same-direction lanes as well.

In all my travels across the US, I had never seen it before. 40 states, and Hawai'i was the first time I had seen it.

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 15, 2016, 05:04:33 PM

Quote from: empirestate on September 15, 2016, 12:45:54 PM

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 14, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I just came back from vacation in Hawaii, and found a new lane marking I hadn't seen before on the Freeways.

When there is an on-ramp, the discourage people from getting into the lane where the ramp is merging, there is a solid white line towards the lane to the left, with the dashed line (in this case, bots dots) on the side towards the ramp.  It is very intuitive, and might help with preventing accidents at on ramps, or make people think ahead about what their plans are.

That's just typical pavement marking for passing/no passing zones. We associate it most often with yellow centerlines, but it's frequently used between same-direction lanes as well.

In all my travels across the US, I had never seen it before. 40 states, and Hawai'i was the first time I had seen it.

I have also never seen this used anywhere except Hawaii (where its use has been religious for some time). It's likely in the MUTCD in some form, but as far as I can tell, Hawaii is one of (if not) the only state utilizing the markings.

By the way, good idea for a thread, Teg. I've been thinking of starting a thread like this for a while, but never bothered.

---

Hawaii has used two other markings that I see used almost nowhere else.

One is the zig-zag crosswalk warning lines (http://traffic.hawaiicounty.gov/faded-traffic-markings/) (pioneered in the UK), used at least in Hilo. Hawaii's is different in that the marking is along the edge; most states place it in the center of the lane.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVDJaK1A.png&hash=5379c401d5c64740418a8ca749d52582ec7dfb5c)

The other is the "yield ahead" pavement marking. This "yield ahead" marking is an all-white yield sign, painted on the ground, usually several meters before the actual yield:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3VlYaSp.png&hash=1998a926c7c733f23e431ac9da2ad114e0a589ea)

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 15, 2016, 05:04:33 PM

Quote from: empirestate on September 15, 2016, 12:45:54 PM

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 14, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I just came back from vacation in Hawaii, and found a new lane marking I hadn't seen before on the Freeways.

When there is an on-ramp, the discourage people from getting into the lane where the ramp is merging, there is a solid white line towards the lane to the left, with the dashed line (in this case, bots dots) on the side towards the ramp.  It is very intuitive, and might help with preventing accidents at on ramps, or make people think ahead about what their plans are.

That's just typical pavement marking for passing/no passing zones. We associate it most often with yellow centerlines, but it's frequently used between same-direction lanes as well.

In all my travels across the US, I had never seen it before. 40 states, and Hawai'i was the first time I had seen it.

Fair enough; I myself am known to have never experienced things that others describe as commonplace. Perhaps it's only common in areas I frequent, particularly the Northeast. I couldn't even say off hand which states or regions use it, since I never took note of it as being terribly unique, but it may well be limited to 10 states or fewer, all of which perhaps you've never visited.

Here's an example of a sort of inverse usage: https://goo.gl/maps/hZMsi5SS9YM2

In this case, entering traffic is allowed to move right to make the upcoming exit, but through traffic is prohibited from passing in order to avoid conflict with the entering traffic. (This being NYC, you can count on your left wing feathers the number of times this is actually adhered to.)

Another thing I've only seen in Hawaii, "shark's teeth" in an area where they want you to slow down, in this case at the end of the improved HI 200 Saddle Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2FP1060040m%2520-%2520HI%2520200%2520Saddle%2520Road%2520construction_zpsswtkkjva.jpg&hash=8ac757e6d3c3fb96f78cad6acf38f02678c62dec)

Hawaii doesn't post route number signs all the time (or post consistent numbers at times), but their pavement marking has been really diligent.

Quote from: kurumi on September 16, 2016, 01:43:27 AM
Hawaii doesn't post route number signs all the time (or post consistent numbers at times), but their pavement marking has been really diligent.

Of all the states that I've visited, Hawaii has, by far, the most amount of pavement markings per square meter. And as you mention, they are exceptionally consistent at applying said markings at each and every intersection, crosswalk, etc.

Quote from: empirestate on September 15, 2016, 05:25:48 PM

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 15, 2016, 05:04:33 PM

Quote from: empirestate on September 15, 2016, 12:45:54 PM

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 14, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I just came back from vacation in Hawaii, and found a new lane marking I hadn't seen before on the Freeways.

When there is an on-ramp, the discourage people from getting into the lane where the ramp is merging, there is a solid white line towards the lane to the left, with the dashed line (in this case, bots dots) on the side towards the ramp.  It is very intuitive, and might help with preventing accidents at on ramps, or make people think ahead about what their plans are.

That's just typical pavement marking for passing/no passing zones. We associate it most often with yellow centerlines, but it's frequently used between same-direction lanes as well.

In all my travels across the US, I had never seen it before. 40 states, and Hawai'i was the first time I had seen it.

Fair enough; I myself am known to have never experienced things that others describe as commonplace. Perhaps it's only common in areas I frequent, particularly the Northeast. I couldn't even say off hand which states or regions use it, since I never took note of it as being terribly unique, but it may well be limited to 10 states or fewer, all of which perhaps you've never visited.

Here's an example of a sort of inverse usage: https://goo.gl/maps/hZMsi5SS9YM2

In this case, entering traffic is allowed to move right to make the upcoming exit, but through traffic is prohibited from passing in order to avoid conflict with the entering traffic. (This being NYC, you can count on your left wing feathers the number of times this is actually adhered to.)

Connecticut (and until recently, New York) used identical markings between acceleration/deceleration lanes and through lanes or ending climbing lanes and through lanes, so something similar (but not identical) is found throughout the northeast. Of course, those are 2 states out of 50 and, at least in New York, places started phasing out the old markings 20 years ago, to the point where there are virtually none remaining in Western New York.

Quote from: MarkF on September 16, 2016, 12:53:08 AM
Another thing I've only seen in Hawaii, "shark's teeth" in an area where they want you to slow down, in this case at the end of the improved HI 200 Saddle Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2FP1060040m%2520-%2520HI%2520200%2520Saddle%2520Road%2520construction_zpsswtkkjva.jpg&hash=8ac757e6d3c3fb96f78cad6acf38f02678c62dec)

SR 21 in Keystone Heights FL has this where the road curves around some lakes

I have not seen this in Florida anywhere else, but there are not many curvy roads in the state

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 14, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I just came back from vacation in Hawaii, and found a new lane marking I hadn't seen before on the Freeways.


When there is an on-ramp, the discourage people from getting into the lane where the ramp is merging, there is a solid white line towards the lane to the left, with the dashed line (in this case, bots dots) on the side towards the ramp.  It is very intuitive, and might help with preventing accidents at on ramps, or make people think ahead about what their plans are.


(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawaiihighways.com%2FH1-lane-markings-large.jpg&hash=cbe42aa900dcd633a3650da56e913c06870a39b3)


In Washington, the typical "fake median" that is often used in the US to redirect traffic around left turn lanes, doesn't have an end cap.  So the yellow line  directs through traffic to the right, but doesn't curve back in to the center line, as is common in the rest of the US.


In Indiana, there are many places that, instead of putting in a turn lane, there is a wide spot in the road, lined like an extra line, with a single separator line.  This provides a place for traffic to stop to make a safe left turn, but through traffic can safely get around to the right, without always having get to the right. 


What innovative, unique, or strange lane markings have you seen in your travels.

There used to be something like this in Columbus. The ramp from WB I-70 to NB OH 315 is a left exit from 70 and a left entrance on 315. There's also a ramp which exits 70 on the right (signed as an exit to Rich St and Town St) which joins 315 on the right, becoming an exit only lane for 315's Rich St / Town St exit. Until about 2000, that exit only lane was separated from the through lanes with a solid/broken pair white line, with the solid line on the right. This was meant to prohibit traffic which took the right-side ramp from 70 merging onto 315, as that ramp is only meant to be used as an exit to Rich/Town, and the proper ramp to 315 is on the left.

I wish that lane marking was still there. People use the Rich/Town ramp to merge onto 315 all the time, probably because their satnavs tell them to, and have very little distance in which to change lanes to avoid the Rich/Town exit, so the lane change is done with no courtesy for anyone who is already in the through lane. It seems dangerous to me, and pointlessly so, because there's a perfectly good ramp on the left that doesn't even have to merge! There are no regulatory signs to prohibit this maneuver, either, so now the only real arguments I have against it are "it's (subjectively) dangerous" and "the green signs say do something else", which aren't likely to convince drivers or satnavs to change their behavior.

By the way, there's nothing in the MUTCD about solid/broken pair white lines, for this or any other purpose.

Quote from: MarkF on September 16, 2016, 12:53:08 AM
Another thing I've only seen in Hawaii, "shark's teeth" in an area where they want you to slow down, in this case at the end of the improved HI 200 Saddle Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2FP1060040m%2520-%2520HI%2520200%2520Saddle%2520Road%2520construction_zpsswtkkjva.jpg&hash=8ac757e6d3c3fb96f78cad6acf38f02678c62dec)

I've seen similar, but not quite the same, style markings elsewhere, normally consisting of solid lines perpendicular to the edge of the road that get closer together as you approach a particular point, usually the crest of a blind hill. They put in those sorts of lines on Lee Chapel Road here in Fairfax County some 15 or 20 years ago (see Street View link below–the markings have deteriorated over time) after there were a number of serious accidents due to people going too fast. When I was in high school the road had a one-lane bridge at the bottom of a sharp curve that naturally slowed the traffic, but they replaced that in the early 1990s with a new bridge that also eliminated the twisty downhill to the old bridge, so people were going too fast. I recall a news story saying that high school kids who were "hill-hopping" on various area roads (i.e., going super fast to catch air off the hills) were exacerbating the problem. So they put in these lines because supposedly they were supposed to provide some sort of optical illusion that would cause drivers to slow down.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7531445,-77.278286,3a,75y,194.69h,72.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5zNl1f9p4JNnzOQFRSOlmA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Quote from: vtk on September 17, 2016, 08:20:31 AM

Quote from: TEG24601 on September 14, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I just came back from vacation in Hawaii, and found a new lane marking I hadn't seen before on the Freeways.


When there is an on-ramp, the discourage people from getting into the lane where the ramp is merging, there is a solid white line towards the lane to the left, with the dashed line (in this case, bots dots) on the side towards the ramp.  It is very intuitive, and might help with preventing accidents at on ramps, or make people think ahead about what their plans are.


(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawaiihighways.com%2FH1-lane-markings-large.jpg&hash=cbe42aa900dcd633a3650da56e913c06870a39b3)


In Washington, the typical "fake median" that is often used in the US to redirect traffic around left turn lanes, doesn't have an end cap.  So the yellow line  directs through traffic to the right, but doesn't curve back in to the center line, as is common in the rest of the US.


In Indiana, there are many places that, instead of putting in a turn lane, there is a wide spot in the road, lined like an extra line, with a single separator line.  This provides a place for traffic to stop to make a safe left turn, but through traffic can safely get around to the right, without always having get to the right. 


What innovative, unique, or strange lane markings have you seen in your travels.

There used to be something like this in Columbus. The ramp from WB I-70 to NB OH 315 is a left exit from 70 and a left entrance on 315. There's also a ramp which exits 70 on the right (signed as an exit to Rich St and Town St) which joins 315 on the right, becoming an exit only lane for 315's Rich St / Town St exit. Until about 2000, that exit only lane was separated from the through lanes with a solid/broken pair white line, with the solid line on the right. This was meant to prohibit traffic which took the right-side ramp from 70 merging onto 315, as that ramp is only meant to be used as an exit to Rich/Town, and the proper ramp to 315 is on the left.

I wish that lane marking was still there. People use the Rich/Town ramp to merge onto 315 all the time, probably because their satnavs tell them to, and have very little distance in which to change lanes to avoid the Rich/Town exit, so the lane change is done with no courtesy for anyone who is already in the through lane. It seems dangerous to me, and pointlessly so, because there's a perfectly good ramp on the left that doesn't even have to merge! There are no regulatory signs to prohibit this maneuver, either, so now the only real arguments I have against it are "it's (subjectively) dangerous" and "the green signs say do something else", which aren't likely to convince drivers or satnavs to change their behavior.

By the way, there's nothing in the MUTCD about solid/broken pair white lines, for this or any other purpose.

It's worth noting that Waze does not allow that movement when navigating

Quote from: roadman on September 14, 2016, 01:17:59 PM
Connecticut's use of a white solid line with a white dashed line to denote the end of climbing lanes is one example I can think of.

New York has used that as well (though they may have discontinued the practice).  There are some on the New Jersey Turnpike as well around on/off ramps.

Quote from: MASTERNC on September 17, 2016, 08:52:51 PM

Quote from: roadman on September 14, 2016, 01:17:59 PM
Connecticut's use of a white solid line with a white dashed line to denote the end of climbing lanes is one example I can think of.

New York has used that as well (though they may have discontinued the practice).  There are some on the New Jersey Turnpike as well around on/off ramps.

NYSDOT officially discontinued it when they adopted the 2009 MUTCD. Some regions and NYSTA killed it off immediately, while Region 1 continues to repaint them if they markings were already on the pavement.

Speaking of NYSDOT and climbing lanes, we also used to use a double dashed white line on them: https://goo.gl/maps/Pae1aBhd2L32

These days it's just a thicker dashed line.

Quote from: vdeane on September 18, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Speaking of NYSDOT and climbing lanes, we also used to use a double dashed white line on them: https://goo.gl/maps/Pae1aBhd2L32

These days it's just a thicker dashed line.

VDOT used to do the same for the left-lane HOV lane on I-66 outside the Beltway (and maybe on the Dulles Toll Road too, but I don't remember). They've also switched to a single thicker line.

As long as there's a thread for "unique" pavement markings...

"[cyclists] MUST EXIT" is not an uncommon sign here in the Seattle-area. But I've never seen the message relayed with pavement markings in the shoulder before. Though as usual, I'm not so hot on the Yoda-ordering of the message -- I still tend to read top-to-bottom, even at 50 mph.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsO0JqHt.jpg&hash=933ae8d194d09f13beaa0fd7e88404da070853aa)

I also read top to bottom, even on roads.  Why did someone get the idea to have everyone read bottom to top on pavement, when we don't in any other context?

I think the idea is to allow the message to be read properly if obstructed by the vehicle in front. Not saying I agree with it and I'd love to see a study showing which way is better.

Saw a picture of a local government entity in New Jersey that's painting a blue line between the two yellow stripes on their streets to show support for law enforcement.

Then, there's the red-white-blue center striping along a Rhode Island state route in one city. I've driven it, but can't remember the route number or the city.

Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2016, 11:33:50 PM
Then, there's the red-white-blue center striping along a Rhode Island state route in one city. I've driven it, but can't remember the route number or the city.

Bristol, Rhode Island. The markings seem to be used on more than one road, but most pictured is Hope Street (Route 114), south of Chestnut.

Quote from: jakeroot on September 25, 2016, 03:31:46 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2016, 11:33:50 PM
Then, there's the red-white-blue center striping along a Rhode Island state route in one city. I've driven it, but can't remember the route number or the city.

Bristol, Rhode Island. The markings seem to be used on more than one road, but most pictured is Hope Street (Route 114), south of Chestnut.

Any idea why this was done?

A lot of places have a blue line (or other color) down the center (or near center) to demark the centerline of a parade route.  This may be especially important where the normal double yellow line isn't always at center to make room for left turn pockets.

Here is an example at Orange Grove and Colorado in Pasadena.  The line is painted rose, in honor of the Rose Parade.  Marching bands and floats definitely use the line to help them stay on the center of the streeet, esepcially when making this turn:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1456354,-118.1606316,3a,75y,323.48h,66.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNzM9WlXlnNi2_ntZz2tXFw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Quote from: mrsman on September 25, 2016, 07:51:53 AM

Quote from: jakeroot on September 25, 2016, 03:31:46 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2016, 11:33:50 PM
Then, there's the red-white-blue center striping along a Rhode Island state route in one city. I've driven it, but can't remember the route number or the city.

Bristol, Rhode Island. The markings seem to be used on more than one road, but most pictured is Hope Street (Route 114), south of Chestnut.

Any idea why this was done?

Because this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Fourth_of_July_Parade). (And it's worth noting that their center striping was explicitly legislated to be an officially acceptable marking.)

Quote from: vdeane on September 24, 2016, 10:37:34 PM
I also read top to bottom, even on roads.  Why did someone get the idea to have everyone read bottom to top on pavement, when we don't in any other context?

I read Twitter from bottom to top.

The town of Braintree, MA painted the edge lines along Washington Street with alternating segments of red, white and blue a couple years back. They have since been repainted solid white, although once can see remnants of the red and blue below.

Quote from: vtk on September 26, 2016, 09:33:20 AM

Quote from: vdeane on September 24, 2016, 10:37:34 PM
I also read top to bottom, even on roads.  Why did someone get the idea to have everyone read bottom to top on pavement, when we don't in any other context?

I read Twitter from bottom to top.

As do I, but they design it that way.

Here in California we may be trying out a white solid/broken striping combo on the 91 express lanes extension.  We had explored it for the 237 express lanes in San Jose but decided to use broken stripe instead.


iPhone

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 17, 2016, 12:21:33 PM

Quote from: MarkF on September 16, 2016, 12:53:08 AM
Another thing I've only seen in Hawaii, "shark's teeth" in an area where they want you to slow down, in this case at the end of the improved HI 200 Saddle Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2FP1060040m%2520-%2520HI%2520200%2520Saddle%2520Road%2520construction_zpsswtkkjva.jpg&hash=8ac757e6d3c3fb96f78cad6acf38f02678c62dec)

I've seen similar, but not quite the same, style markings elsewhere, normally consisting of solid lines perpendicular to the edge of the road that get closer together as you approach a particular point, usually the crest of a blind hill. (...) So they put in these lines because supposedly they were supposed to provide some sort of optical illusion that would cause drivers to slow down.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7531445,-77.278286,3a,75y,194.69h,72.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5zNl1f9p4JNnzOQFRSOlmA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The markings quoted above are indeed speed reduction markings. The style seen in the Google Maps link has been adopted into the national MUTCD (first seen in the 2009 manual, IIRC).

Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2016, 11:33:50 PM
Saw a picture of a local government entity in New Jersey that's painting a blue line between the two yellow stripes on their streets to show support for law enforcement.

Here's an article that goes into more detail on this new activity. (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/heres_the_deal_with_the_thin_blue_lines_being_pain.html) Much to my surprise, there's more municipalities doing it than I thought (at the time of the OP, only Wayne and Oaklyn had announced their plans) and there are some counties (since they they have jurisdiction of the road in front of the police station in some cases) not allowing it. I thought at the first opposition of a county/NJDOT, all the NJ.com articles would be flooded with the "WHY DO YOU HATE THE POLICE BLUE/ALL LIVES MATTER" and the other unrelated racist comments I've known to expect from that site directed towards the respective highway agency.

Not technically lane markings, but I thought I'd post this since it's a similar idea to the 'thin blue line'. Outside Perth's small 'Chinatown' area they've paved the road in spots of red asphalt.
(https://i.imgur.com/1Oql6Pi.png)
https://goo.gl/PTzkT8 (https://goo.gl/PTzkT8)
They use the red stuff to pave highway shoulders etc over here, so they must have had some spare  :-D

I know we've mentioned the I-77 high-visibility markings near Fancy Gap, but I saw this weekend that I-75 got the treatment outside of Chattanooga. Going by GSV, it was redone this summer (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.278338,-84.8195628,3a,75y,15.66h,75.74t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCJVxy8dIJcX5NQS4Idty5A!2e0!5s20160701T000000!7i13312!8i6656). Unlike the Virginia case, Tennessee put reflectors along the hash marks in the shoulders. Looks quite nice when driving through at night.

Several intersections along Speedway Blvd in Tucson, AZ have secondary "yield" lines for the left turns.

These are very common in other countries, but I've never seen them used before in the US. I quite like them, as it encourages traffic to wait past the stop line (helpful with leading lefts).

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhXBZuOx.png&hash=e6941875f5d0f0141cf3ed9ac2eb2c0c923eaa50)

Here's the same sort of lines in South Africa (just reversed):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FxRWAhR3.png&hash=0d34127525497676ed9f0e1f7f4eb40f4537d635)

Quote from: jakeroot on October 24, 2016, 03:33:50 PM
Several intersections along Speedway Blvd in Tucson, AZ have secondary "yield" lines for the left turns.

These are very common in other countries, but I've never seen them used before in the US. I quite like them, as it encourages traffic to wait past the stop line (helpful with leading lefts).

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhXBZuOx.png&hash=e6941875f5d0f0141cf3ed9ac2eb2c0c923eaa50)

You're supposed to pull straight into the intersection.  That's a terrible angle to have people stop at.  It's more likely that one may get pushed into oncoming traffic at that angle if hit.

Quote from: Brandon on October 26, 2016, 06:48:07 AM

Quote from: jakeroot on October 24, 2016, 03:33:50 PM
Several intersections along Speedway Blvd in Tucson, AZ have secondary "yield" lines for the left turns.

These are very common in other countries, but I've never seen them used before in the US. I quite like them, as it encourages traffic to wait past the stop line (helpful with leading lefts).

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhXBZuOx.png&hash=e6941875f5d0f0141cf3ed9ac2eb2c0c923eaa50)

You're supposed to pull straight into the intersection.  That's a terrible angle to have people stop at.  It's more likely that one may get pushed into oncoming traffic at that angle if hit.

Hey, gotta make up for their lousy median design somehow. Why not make it worse?   :banghead:

I remember racing another driver from A to B in Chicago rush-hour traffic on city streets. The deciding factor was the ability to turn left without an arrow.

NYC uses double white lines to discourage crossing lanes on one way roads.

XT1585

Pretty sure changing lanes across a double white is illegal under NYS law.

Quote from: vdeane on October 26, 2016, 08:27:00 PM
Pretty sure changing lanes across a double white is illegal under NYS law.

I think it's illegal in most places.

Quote from: coatimundi on October 26, 2016, 09:03:23 PM

Quote from: vdeane on October 26, 2016, 08:27:00 PM
Pretty sure changing lanes across a double white is illegal under NYS law.

I think it's illegal in most places.

It's illegal everywhere per MUTCD.

Quote from: Brandon on October 26, 2016, 06:48:07 AM

Quote from: jakeroot on October 24, 2016, 03:33:50 PM
Several intersections along Speedway Blvd in Tucson, AZ have secondary "yield" lines for the left turns.

These are very common in other countries, but I've never seen them used before in the US. I quite like them, as it encourages traffic to wait past the stop line (helpful with leading lefts).

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhXBZuOx.png&hash=e6941875f5d0f0141cf3ed9ac2eb2c0c923eaa50)

You're supposed to pull straight into the intersection.  That's a terrible angle to have people stop at.  It's more likely that one may get pushed into oncoming traffic at that angle if hit.

This.  Never wait to make a left turn with your car facing at a diagonal, in case someone hits you from behind.  And in response to more recent attempts at refutation:  Fender benders occur at a much greater incidence than some guy coming from the straight lane and hitting you at an angle.

Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 31, 2016, 04:56:53 PM

Quote from: Brandon on October 26, 2016, 06:48:07 AM

Quote from: jakeroot on October 24, 2016, 03:33:50 PM
Several intersections along Speedway Blvd in Tucson, AZ have secondary "yield" lines for the left turns.

These are very common in other countries, but I've never seen them used before in the US. I quite like them, as it encourages traffic to wait past the stop line (helpful with leading lefts).

You're supposed to pull straight into the intersection.  That's a terrible angle to have people stop at.  It's more likely that one may get pushed into oncoming traffic at that angle if hit.

This.  Never wait to make a left turn with your car facing at a diagonal, in case someone hits you from behind.  And in response to more recent attempts at refutation:  Fender benders occur at a much greater incidence than some guy coming from the straight lane and hitting you at an angle.

I just can't go along with this. How often do people fly into a left turn lane, only to slam into the car waiting to turn? This implies that they were looking enough to enter the turn lane, but then stopped paying attention between that point, and colliding with the person waiting. And even if they were only just barely paying attention, they should know there was a signal ahead, and that they'd probably have to yield.

When I turn left, I position my car where I have the best visbility (I'd reckon turning blind into oncoming traffic produces more severe collisions). In the case of the Tucson junction above, I'd assume it's exactly where the waiting lines are (you couldn't really pull straight into that junction without blocking the oncoming left turn anyway).

If someone has some study that conclusively shows waiting at angle to be more dangerous, please bring it forward.

Quote from: jakeroot on October 31, 2016, 05:43:34 PM
I just can't go along with this. How often do people fly into a left turn lane, only to slam into the car waiting to turn?

More than none.

Quote from: jakeroot on October 31, 2016, 05:43:34 PM
This implies that they were looking enough to enter the turn lane, but then stopped paying attention between that point, and colliding with the person waiting. And even if they were only just barely paying attention, they should know there was a signal ahead, and that they'd probably have to yield.

Most drivers approaching signals don't think, "Oh I'll probably have to yield." they think, "Oh shit, I have to catch that light!"

There are two reasons why rear end collisions make up the majority of crashes at signalized intersections - one is that they didn't expect it at all, the other is that drivers become much more aggressive as they approach them.

Quote from: jakeroot on October 31, 2016, 05:43:34 PM
When I turn left, I position my car where I have the best visbility (I'd reckon turning blind into oncoming traffic produces more severe collisions). In the case of the Tucson junction above, I'd assume it's exactly where the waiting lines are (you couldn't really pull straight into that junction without blocking the oncoming left turn anyway).

Going back to my earlier statement, if they'd have half a bit of sense when they

Quote from: jakeroot on October 26, 2016, 01:43:05 PM

Quote from: cbeach40 on October 26, 2016, 09:57:04 AM
Hey, gotta make up for their lousy median design somehow. Why not make it worse?   :banghead:

I would rather have the left turn lanes pointing at each other, but you gotta make do with what you got.

In this case, Tucson wants the cars to wait at that angle so opposing traffic has better visibility. If they waited at the stop line, oncoming cars might be blocked behind traffic waiting to turn left.

You don't have to make do with what you've got when given the crosswalks it was clearly designed this way. By narrowing/eliminating the median at the intersection, you put your opposing left turns on better sight lines, and you reduce your conflict on the turning radius between those turns.
And it's not like they don't know how to do it, there's a pile of intersections along that very same road where they got it right.

In NY, the first car in line can pull forward into the intersection to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic to make the turn.  If traffic is heavy and there isn't a left turn arrow, it might be the only way to make your turn.  This is encouraged by the NY drivers manual.  It's legal to exit the intersection in a red if you entered in a green (or yellow), regardless of whether it takes one movement or not.  Traffic is required to yield to vehicles already in the intersection.
https://dmv.ny.gov/about-dmv/chapter-5-intersections-and-turns#rgh-way

Quote from: cbeach40 on November 02, 2016, 02:54:43 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on October 31, 2016, 05:43:34 PM
I just can't go along with this. How often do people fly into a left turn lane, only to slam into the car waiting to turn?

More than none.

Well of course.

Quote from: cbeach40 on November 02, 2016, 02:54:43 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on October 31, 2016, 05:43:34 PM
This implies that they were looking enough to enter the turn lane, but then stopped paying attention between that point, and colliding with the person waiting. And even if they were only just barely paying attention, they should know there was a signal ahead, and that they'd probably have to yield.

Most drivers approaching signals don't think, "Oh I'll probably have to yield." they think, "Oh shit, I have to catch that light!"

There are two reasons why rear end collisions make up the majority of crashes at signalized intersections - one is that they didn't expect it at all, the other is that drivers become much more aggressive as they approach them.

So "most" drivers are shit? It's funny to think that, but I don't think its accurate. Most drivers are trained that left turns are yield situations (unless there's an arrow). Whether they speed up approaching the left turn or not, slamming into a stopped car is not really connected to aggressive behaviour. It's connected to "not paying attention", which seems unlikely to me because most turn lanes are "pockets", and are fairly short. How exactly does one stop paying attention between entering the pocket and rear-ending someone turning left? Obviously said scenario is possible. If I said otherwise, I retract that statement. But such a collision would seem to be more of a theory than a reality. It just seems really, really unlikely.

Just as a random challenge (you don't have to accept it, because it's a little ridiculous), go ahead and find a video on Youtube of a rear-end crash in a left turn lane. I don't think I've ever seen one.

Quote from: cbeach40 on November 02, 2016, 02:54:43 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on October 31, 2016, 05:43:34 PM
When I turn left, I position my car where I have the best visbility (I'd reckon turning blind into oncoming traffic produces more severe collisions). In the case of the Tucson junction above, I'd assume it's exactly where the waiting lines are (you couldn't really pull straight into that junction without blocking the oncoming left turn anyway).

Going back to my earlier statement, if they'd have half a bit of sense when they

Quote from: jakeroot on October 26, 2016, 01:43:05 PM

Quote from: cbeach40 on October 26, 2016, 09:57:04 AM
Hey, gotta make up for their lousy median design somehow. Why not make it worse?   :banghead:

I would rather have the left turn lanes pointing at each other, but you gotta make do with what you got.

In this case, Tucson wants the cars to wait at that angle so opposing traffic has better visibility. If they waited at the stop line, oncoming cars might be blocked behind traffic waiting to turn left.

You don't have to make do with what you've got when given the crosswalks it was clearly designed this way. By narrowing/eliminating the median at the intersection, you put your opposing left turns on better sight lines, and you reduce your conflict on the turning radius between those turns.
And it's not like they don't know how to do it, there's a pile of intersections along that very same road where they got it right.

I won't disagree with this. I have always preferred left turn lanes to point at each other. But you would agree that the best waiting position at the current intersection is where the "yield" lines are now, right?

Quote from: cbeach40 on November 02, 2016, 02:54:43 PM
By narrowing/eliminating the median at the intersection, you put your opposing left turns on better sight lines, and you reduce your conflict on the turning radius between those turns.
And it's not like they don't know how to do it, there's a pile of intersections along that very same road where they got it right.

Just out of curiosity (after a week's thinking), do you think is there a better design for the numerous dual left turns that Tucson possesses? The waiting points for many of these dual turns is at an angle (note the cars in the photo below). The inside lane generally points straight, but the outside lane, for better or worse, has a waiting point that is at more of an angle than the inside turn.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F943DYEA.png&hash=8fca2f0d0490cd4e8d199ba8cdafd2153b9ed902)

Make them protected left turns, then you don't need traffic to wait in the intersection. Having them permissive like that looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Quote from: riiga on November 11, 2016, 03:15:54 PM
Make them protected left turns, then you don't need traffic to wait in the intersection. Having them permissive like that looks like an accident waiting to happen.

As long as we're glazing over the fact that I have a strong bias towards dual permissive turns, Tucson has a very pro-permissive phasing agenda. They have almost no protected left turns anywhere. Just browse around Street View, and you'll see what I mean. If you do find one, it's either related to a military base, or it's outside the city's jurisdiction.

Tucson has been using dual permissive left turns since the 70s, and they continue to install them today. According to the FHWA (https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/04091/12.cfm), "the protected-permissive "offset" dual lefts are used on very high volume city streets (with ADTs exceeding 80,000). The capacity of the left-turn movement increases 75 to 80 percent and left-turn crashes increase only insignificantly with the protected-permissive phasing is implemented."

Also, from the city of Tucson website (https://goo.gl/cNbCb3):

Quote from: City of Tucson website
Protected Left Turn Arrows
Protected left turn signals include a red arrow along with the normal green and amber arrow. They allow left turning drivers to proceed only on the green arrow. This turning method is very inefficient and generally not used in Tucson. Adding inefficiencies to signal timing reduces overall capacity and increases congestion. With increased congestion comes the potential for an increase in certain types of accidents.

Permitted/Protected Left Turn Arrows
This is the most common turning method used in Tucson at locations having left turn arrows. During the permitted "green ball" part of the cycle, vehicles are allowed to turn when there are adequate gaps in opposing traffic. This type of left turn phasing is designed to help minimize delay by eliminating the need for the red arrow and allowing vehicles to turn on the green ball after opposing traffic has cleared. By not having the red arrow, motorists do not have to sit and wait to turn left even when there is no opposing traffic, a situation that often occurs during periods of low traffic volumes. The signal still provides a green left turn arrow for those not able to turn during the permitted phase.

NYSDOT has been painting arrows on freeway off ramps recently to help prevent wrong way drivers. I've seen them on one way streets as well.

Interesting approach indeed.

Quote from: jakeroot on November 11, 2016, 04:28:47 PM
By not having the red arrow, motorists do not have to sit and wait to turn left even when there is no opposing traffic, a situation that often occurs during periods of low traffic volumes. The signal still provides a green left turn arrow for those not able to turn during the permitted phase.

Wouldn't that be solvable by having dynamic phases? When traffic going straight clears the induction loop detects this and allow left turns, just like the last protected phase with the green arrow. I don't see anyone turning during the permissive phase with oncoming traffic anyway, and if traffic is light enough then the left turn should get priority dynamically by terminating the going straight phase early.

Quote from: riiga on November 12, 2016, 04:42:17 AM
Interesting approach indeed.

Quote from: jakeroot on November 11, 2016, 04:28:47 PM
By not having the red arrow, motorists do not have to sit and wait to turn left even when there is no opposing traffic, a situation that often occurs during periods of low traffic volumes. The signal still provides a green left turn arrow for those not able to turn during the permitted phase.

Wouldn't that be solvable by having dynamic phases? When traffic going straight clears the induction loop detects this and allow left turns, just like the last protected phase with the green arrow. I don't see anyone turning during the permissive phase with oncoming traffic anyway, and if traffic is light enough then the left turn should get priority dynamically by terminating the going straight phase early.

Sometimes the gaps are small. Just because there's time for a few cars to turn doesn't mean you stop all traffic because of that small gap.

Quote from: riiga on November 12, 2016, 04:42:17 AM
Interesting approach indeed.

Quote from: jakeroot on November 11, 2016, 04:28:47 PM
By not having the red arrow, motorists do not have to sit and wait to turn left even when there is no opposing traffic, a situation that often occurs during periods of low traffic volumes. The signal still provides a green left turn arrow for those not able to turn during the permitted phase.

Wouldn't that be solvable by having dynamic phases? When traffic going straight clears the induction loop detects this and allow left turns, just like the last protected phase with the green arrow. I don't see anyone turning during the permissive phase with oncoming traffic anyway, and if traffic is light enough then the left turn should get priority dynamically by terminating the going straight phase early.

You could do that. But I don't see the issue with dual turns having permissive phasing. It sounds like a worse idea than it is. Places that use it, quite like it. Places that don't have it are too scared to try it.

In a Virginia DOT guidebook from several years ago, several PEs from around the US commented on their dual turn phasing preferences (they all worked for various cities as traffic engineers). This PDF (https://goo.gl/YFi5e7) shows their responses. The vast majority mention permissive phasing at dual turns, and how they generally work just fine.

FWIW, Denmark has several dual permissive turns. Never seen any anywhere else in Europe, though.

I saw this in Philadelphia today. Two lanes were marked as such, as traffic went around City Hall in Center City. A right from these two lanes begins South Broad Street, a portion of PA Route 611.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuHyG4zn.jpg&hash=c1d69388e48d5a14f2c012ca9b9914c83eec91b3)

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 02, 2016, 07:05:32 PM
I saw this in Philadelphia today. Two lanes were marked as such, as traffic went around City Hall in Center City. A right from these two lanes begins South Broad Street, a portion of PA Route 611.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuHyG4zn.jpg&hash=c1d69388e48d5a14f2c012ca9b9914c83eec91b3)

Is it the route marker? These have been popping up across the US lately (unsure as to when exactly they started showing up, though).

Here's a recent thread that catalogs a whole bunch of them: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18955.0

Yes...Pennsylvania uses the keystone for their state roads. This was one block away from the other picture:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F33tVo0R.jpg&hash=54e663a57deaf280f6cc2ba8749eaca1cea68364)

How about this unusual striping for a transit lane in San Juan, PR?
How is this even allowed?  Is this part of PR's MUTCD supplement or just totally wacky?

https://goo.gl/maps/9jJLRqiK3S42

Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2016, 04:13:10 PM
How about this unusual striping for a transit lane in San Juan, PR?
How is this even allowed?  Is this part of PR's MUTCD supplement or just totally wacky?

https://goo.gl/maps/9jJLRqiK3S42

It looks like a counterflow transit lane, not for general use.  Love the WisDOT style trombones though, even if the signals are hung FIB-wise.

Looks similar to this bike lane in Burlington, VT:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nysroads.com%2Fimages%2Fgallery%2FVT%2Fus7a%2F100_8661-s.JPG&hash=d689741cdc4b39ffa3c7d17bccee1c6bbe467e26)

Contraflow lanes are decently common in Seattle. Here's an example damn-near identical to the PR example above (also transit-exclusive, just as above):

Unique in the PR example is the dashed yellow line, though. Don't see that very often, except in rural areas where passing lanes have been constructed (and even then, only some states allow the single-lane direction to overtake in these stretches)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuXyLJk6.png&hash=31143baa2d973326f0bd6fae0d0496ad4c7b593b)

Colorado is starting to test in-pavement LED lights to denote lanes at night.  Usually one white LED between every 2-3 white stripes on the pavement.  Those LEDs were pretty bright.  They had them placed on a 1-2 mile stretch of EB I-70 just before you went up Floyd Hill.

Quote from: Mr. Matté on October 10, 2016, 12:41:43 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2016, 11:33:50 PM
Saw a picture of a local government entity in New Jersey that's painting a blue line between the two yellow stripes on their streets to show support for law enforcement.

Here's an article that goes into more detail on this new activity. (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/heres_the_deal_with_the_thin_blue_lines_being_pain.html) Much to my surprise, there's more municipalities doing it than I thought (at the time of the OP, only Wayne and Oaklyn had announced their plans) and there are some counties (since they they have jurisdiction of the road in front of the police station in some cases) not allowing it. I thought at the first opposition of a county/NJDOT, all the NJ.com articles would be flooded with the "WHY DO YOU HATE THE POLICE BLUE/ALL LIVES MATTER" and the other unrelated racist comments I've known to expect from that site directed towards the respective highway agency.

Now the FHWA is starting to comment against these blue lines in front of police stations per this article. (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/01/nj_towns_should_remove_blue_line_supporting_law_en.html) The dumbass NJ.com commenters that were not present in my quoted post are now in this article (because as you know, Ronald Thump's FHWA will not have bureaucrats commenting on nonstandard practices).

Quote from: Mr. Matté on January 08, 2017, 02:07:42 PM

Quote from: Mr. Matté on October 10, 2016, 12:41:43 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2016, 11:33:50 PM
Saw a picture of a local government entity in New Jersey that's painting a blue line between the two yellow stripes on their streets to show support for law enforcement.

Here's an article that goes into more detail on this new activity. (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/heres_the_deal_with_the_thin_blue_lines_being_pain.html) Much to my surprise, there's more municipalities doing it than I thought (at the time of the OP, only Wayne and Oaklyn had announced their plans) and there are some counties (since they they have jurisdiction of the road in front of the police station in some cases) not allowing it. I thought at the first opposition of a county/NJDOT, all the NJ.com articles would be flooded with the "WHY DO YOU HATE THE POLICE BLUE/ALL LIVES MATTER" and the other unrelated racist comments I've known to expect from that site directed towards the respective highway agency.

Now the FHWA is starting to comment against these blue lines in front of police stations per this article. (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/01/nj_towns_should_remove_blue_line_supporting_law_en.html) The dumbass NJ.com commenters that were not present in my quoted post are now in this article (because as you know, Ronald Thump's FHWA will not have bureaucrats commenting on nonstandard practices).

Both sides of the aisle are ignorant on transportation matters. I was arguing with fellow liberals about HOT lanes earlier. They didn't seem to get that a) there's a free alternative and b) you don't pay if you're an HOV.

File this under "inexperienced user error"...

WashDOT doesn't use edge extension markings very often; this is evidence. White dashed lines are supposed to be used to separate lanes going in the same direction. They must not have gotten the memo.

SR-12/Olympic Hwy at Clemons Road (https://goo.gl/WR936d) near Aberdeen

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1hieIpv.png&hash=814cdd2f897f1bd71673a1b7c0bbc9c6bf516fb9)

EDIT: Similar error up the road at Central Park Drive (https://goo.gl/h6Dllw). You must cross the dashed yellow line to merge with traffic:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvO2uTGl.png&hash=d5a7eac3a02507239f14335a5f052ca16a179c86)

EDIT 2: Same junction as above...same issue:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FF9EvG0G.png&hash=7176f4c7285e9032b17a3805411b9ea7d9de293b)

Not sure if this is the right thread or not...

We recently spent a weekend in Eureka Springs (AR), and I found out the streets upon which the red route trolley runs have their curbs painted red (GSV example here (https://goo.gl/maps/HTRpmaXZ5PS2)).  Is this even legal?

The right turn markings at this junction in Johannesburg, South Africa: https://goo.gl/mGNjmw

I guess lead/lag wasn't an option.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHKOMh3H.png&hash=559bd5f0b7d4cac27581440b8fd85192032613f8)

On Route 17 past Wilmington, North Carolina on the way to Myrtle Beach, they have a plentiful amount of arrows directing drivers to proceed in the direction they're going.

Quote from: epzik8 on June 26, 2017, 02:12:06 AM
On Route 17 past Wilmington, North Carolina on the way to Myrtle Beach, they have a plentiful amount of arrows directing drivers to proceed in the direction they're going.

Like these? (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1304278,-78.0994402,3a,75y,48.33h,71.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWA2h9Zpq2gzmb47Dqzoi8w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)  I think NCDOT did this to discourage driving the wrong way in the respective lanes.

Quote from: jakeroot on June 26, 2017, 02:07:03 AM
The right turn markings at this junction in Johannesburg, South Africa: https://goo.gl/mGNjmw

I guess lead/lag wasn't an option.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHKOMh3H.png&hash=559bd5f0b7d4cac27581440b8fd85192032613f8)

Lead/lag is unlikely an option for this intersection since there are median bus lanes.  (the lanes marked in red).  If the opposing left turns had different signal phases, that would leave little time in the intersection for the bus lanes to go.

For a US example, check out hte Chandler Blvd busway (orange line) in North Hollywood, CA.  There is a similar wide median because of bus lanes (and beforehand trolley cars).  All left turns are protected only and share the same time in the signal.  No special lane markings though.

There's a lead-lag intersection near where I live, and outside of rush hour, the light intervals are evenly divided between the left turns and the all-straight phase (for the main road; the side road doesn't have an all-straight phase).

Quote from: vdeane on July 02, 2017, 10:59:57 AM
There's a lead-lag intersection near where I live, and outside of rush hour, the light intervals are evenly divided between the left turns and the all-straight phase (for the main road; the side road doesn't have an all-straight phase).

OK.  Let's work on an example to show why lead-lag is especially disadvantageous for a road with median bus lanes.

00 EB green.  EB to NB  green arrow.  WB    red.   WB to SB red arrow.
10 EB green.  EB to NB yellow arrow.   WB    red.  WB to SB red arrow.
13 EB green.  EB to NB      red arrow.   WB    red.  WB to SB red arrow.
15 EB green.  EB to NB        red arrow.    WB green. WB to SB red arrow.

40 EB yellow.  EB to NB       red arrow.   WB green.  WB to SB red arrow.
43 EB red.       EB to NB      red arrow.  WB green.  WB to SB red arrow.
45 EB red.      EB to NB       red arrow.  WB green.  WB to SB green arrow.
55 EB red.      EB to NB  yellow arrow.  WB yellow.  WB to SB yellow arrow.
58 EB red.      EB to NB      red arrow.  WB      red.  WB to SB red arrow. (all-red)

60 N/S green
85 N/S yellow
88 N/S red (all red)
90=00

OK, as you can see, each left turn protected phase has 10 seconds of green arrow, 3 seconds of yellow arrow, and a 2 second red arrow phase for clearance until a different phase is released.  The leading left is followed by westbound traffic.  The lagging left is followd by N/S traffic. 

At the same time, each straight direction on the E/W street has 40 seconds of green and 3 seconds of yellow.  EB from 00-40 green, and 40-43 yellow.  WB from 15-55 green, and 55-58 yellow.  And yes, from 15-40, 25 seconds, both greens overlap and the left turns are prohibited by red arrow.

So straight-through E-W traffic has 40 seconds of green time, but a median bus lane will only have 25 seconds of green time, because neither arrow can be green or yellow at the time when the bus lane has priority.  So here, with a 90 second cycle lenth, buses only get 25 seconds.

Now, let's incorporate having the left turns at the same time, leading lefts.

00 left turns  green arrow.  EB/WB    red.
10 left turns yellow arrow.   EB/WB    red.
13 left turns red arrow.   EB/WB    red.
15 left turns red arrow.   EB/WB    green.

55 left turns red arrow.   EB/WB yellow. 
58 left turns red arrow.   EB/WB      red. 

60 N/S green
85 N/S yellow
88 N/S red (all red)
90=00

OK, as you can see, each left turn protected phase has 10 seconds of green arrow, 3 seconds of yellow arrow, and a 2 second red arrow phase for clearance until a different phase is released.  Same as above.

Each straight direction on the E/W street has 40 seconds of green and 3 seconds of yellow, 15-55 green, and 55-58 yellow.  40 seconds for each direction of travel, including the bus lanes.

So, assuming that we want to give buses some priority, (and that's fair given the provision for bus lanes), the buses will get more green time if the left turn phases overlapped in time and we do not incorporate lead-lag.

Also, I believe that all would agree that we would not  want to incorporate FYAs where there are median bus lanes, because a left turn driver would also have to watch out for buses coming behind them as well as in front of them to make a left turn safely.  I am not aware of any installation of median bus lanes (or light rail/tram etc.) that does not employ protected-only left turns.  [The only exception maybe during late night hours when no buses are run and a rule is in place that no out of service buses can use the bus lanes.]

Recent discussion in this thread has reminded me why I prefer shoulder-based BRT/Tram systems (second to elevated systems, though). No turn restrictions with those.

Quote from: mrsman on July 02, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
Also, I believe that all would agree that we would not  want to incorporate FYAs where there are median bus lanes, because a left turn driver would also have to watch out for buses coming behind them as well as in front of them to make a left turn safely.  I am not aware of any installation of median bus lanes (or light rail/tram etc.) that does not employ protected-only left turns.  [The only exception maybe during late night hours when no buses are run and a rule is in place that no out of service buses can use the bus lanes.]

I thought that I had found an example a while back, but it turns out I didn't:

This intersection in Cape Town, South Africa has two bus lanes leading into it, but they are turn movements (no straight-ahead movements). Before the cars proceed, the buses perform their turns. After that, the right turns get their green arrows, followed by a permissive right turn phase:

https://goo.gl/euJR56

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwuWTVlq.png&hash=9871e144ff38c2330aea0ae916fa4e935729abf5)

On US-160 WB coming out of Wolf Creek Pass, many of the signs fortruckers have been added as thermal signs embedded in the pavement.  (Truck Speed Limits, Curve Signs some truck regulation signs,...).  Looked like they were just installed within the last month or so.

Quote from: mrsman on July 02, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
So, assuming that we want to give buses some priority, (and that's fair given the provision for bus lanes), the buses will get more green time if the left turn phases overlapped in time and we do not incorporate lead-lag.

And there are that many buses that need the full 25 seconds, much less a full 25 seconds every single cycle?

Plus the base cycle length of 90 seconds would be on the low side for an urban arterial with signal coordination.

Are the hatch/chevron markings along the left edge of one-way roads allowed to be white?

Saw this today in Tacoma, WA. South 14 St at Court A.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiDZoHuI.jpg&hash=f4dcc210b43b6a78462bbd0042d9ccb7333787ca)

Quote from: jakeroot on August 16, 2017, 08:33:05 PM
Are the hatch/chevron markings along the left edge of one-way roads allowed to be white?

Saw this today in Tacoma, WA. South 14 St at Court A.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiDZoHuI.jpg&hash=f4dcc210b43b6a78462bbd0042d9ccb7333787ca)

Sometimes NYC streets have white marking on the left of a one way street. Up until a couple of years ago, painted reservations had white hatchind.

STV100-2

Quote from: jakeroot on August 16, 2017, 08:33:05 PM
Are the hatch/chevron markings along the left edge of one-way roads allowed to be white?

Saw this today in Tacoma, WA. South 14 St at Court A.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiDZoHuI.jpg&hash=f4dcc210b43b6a78462bbd0042d9ccb7333787ca)

Nope, not supposed to be white.

Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on August 17, 2017, 07:57:50 AM

Quote from: jakeroot on August 16, 2017, 08:33:05 PM
Are the hatch/chevron markings along the left edge of one-way roads allowed to be white?

http://i.imgur.com/iDZoHuI.jpg

Sometimes NYC streets have white marking on the left of a one way street. Up until a couple of years ago, painted reservations had white hatchind.

I've seen painted central reservations with white-only markings exactly once: Pennsylvania Ave in DC, between 15 and 3 St SW: https://goo.gl/NN3TRf -- no idea why they did this.

Quote from: roadfro on August 19, 2017, 06:44:37 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on August 16, 2017, 08:33:05 PM
Are the hatch/chevron markings along the left edge of one-way roads allowed to be white?

http://i.imgur.com/iDZoHuI.jpg

Nope, not supposed to be white.

Didn't think so. I thought that, maybe, there was an exception for one-way roads not part of a divided highway system, but I guess not.

A strange lack of markings for this double right movement from an off-ramp. In theory, the two lanes are supposed to merge directly into the two through lanes, but the existence of a third left-turn only lane (the destination of many of those exiting the freeway) often results in those in the right lane, exiting the freeway, being able to turn into either of the through lanes.

https://goo.gl/8YfvyX

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCsbrWWR.png&hash=3824f71fadc43ab5218e14e5664964ca979ea9de)

On HI 380 in Maui, there are several of these in the shoulder:

first one of these:
(https://i.imgur.com/K062BL6.jpg)

followed a hundred or so feet later with one of these:
(https://i.imgur.com/cEeTrC3.jpg)

two somewhat close on a small bridge, but in a reverse pattern:
(https://i.imgur.com/pBWsxSn.jpg)

Anyone seen these before, or know what they signify?  They are only on a stretch where a new concrete roadbed was put in a couple of years ago.

Not strictly related to your comments (I'm as dumbfounded as you), but that is a remarkably clear sky in those photographs. I've never been to Hawaii when it wasn't at least partly cloudy, nor have I seen many photos of a completely clear sky.

My guess is they are trying to direct something onto or off of the shoulder by following the line. Bicycles, perhaps? It would make sense to divert bicycles into the mainline near an intersection so turns don't conflict with shoulder-riding bicycles. As for the bridge, I'm not sure, but perhaps there's some condition with the shoulder there (i.e. drainage) that makes it safer for bikes to use the mainline there.

Other possibilities include snowplows (not likely in Hawaii) or street sweepers.

Maybe they're marking the beginning/end of the rumble strips?

Quote from: vdeane on October 22, 2017, 04:35:38 PM
Maybe they're marking the beginning/end of the rumble strips?

I was thinking so, but the first photo doesn't show any rumble strips on either side of the marking. Unless I just can't make them out.

FWIW, Hawaii does use a lot of markings, some that sometimes seem nonsensical. A lot of the "optional" markings in the MUTCD seem to be used.

Quote from: jakeroot on October 22, 2017, 08:29:43 PM

Quote from: vdeane on October 22, 2017, 04:35:38 PM
Maybe they're marking the beginning/end of the rumble strips?

I was thinking so, but the first photo doesn't show any rumble strips on either side of the marking. Unless I just can't make them out.

FWIW, Hawaii does use a lot of markings, some that sometimes seem nonsensical. A lot of the "optional" markings in the MUTCD seem to be used.

And in the middle photo there is a lining marking in the 1:00 position just past the light.  Perhaps "No Stopping/No Parking" zones?

Quote from: jakeroot on October 22, 2017, 02:57:40 AM
Not strictly related to your comments (I'm as dumbfounded as you), but that is a remarkably clear sky in those photographs. I've never been to Hawaii when it wasn't at least partly cloudy, nor have I seen many photos of a completely clear sky.

As has been the case every time I've been to Maui, there were clouds around Haleakalā.  Here's another one, right where the concrete pavement starts:
(https://i.imgur.com/P0Xdo20.jpg)

By the way, I have a video of the complete stretch here:
https://youtu.be/zG9czYgAiD4

Google maps just shows it when the HI 380 roadbed was being updated to concrete.

Quote from: jakeroot on August 28, 2017, 06:50:17 PM
A strange lack of markings for this double right movement from an off-ramp. In theory, the two lanes are supposed to merge directly into the two through lanes, but the existence of a third left-turn only lane (the destination of many of those exiting the freeway) often results in those in the right lane, exiting the freeway, being able to turn into either of the through lanes.

https://goo.gl/8YfvyX

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCsbrWWR.png&hash=3824f71fadc43ab5218e14e5664964ca979ea9de)

I despise all double lane merges like this. 

Quote from: kphoger on October 23, 2017, 02:06:44 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on August 28, 2017, 06:50:17 PM
A strange lack of markings for this double right movement from an off-ramp. In theory, the two lanes are supposed to merge directly into the two through lanes, but the existence of a third left-turn only lane (the destination of many of those exiting the freeway) often results in those in the right lane, exiting the freeway, being able to turn into either of the through lanes.

https://goo.gl/8YfvyX

http://i.imgur.com/CsbrWWR.png

I despise all double lane merges like this.

I wouldn't mind them, if they just used some guide lines. They painted one center-line marking right after the stop line, and then gave up.

I saw this 3D crosswalk (https://imgur.com/gallery/TIcZE) on Imgur a few days ago.  I think it would cause accidents due to people braking suddenly because they thought they were going to hit it.

These waiting lines near Cape Town, ZA indicate to drivers turning right that, at least the right lane, should wait in the path of oncoming traffic. :eyebrow:

https://goo.gl/6ZVYpE

(https://i.imgur.com/C2rLmLC.png)

Quote from: jakeroot on November 15, 2017, 06:39:36 PM
Cape Town, ZA

Think you might mean SF...

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2017, 08:48:35 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on November 15, 2017, 06:39:36 PM
Cape Town, ZA

Think you might mean SF...

I think you might have meant SA, but either way, I'm used to writing ZA because that's their ISO country code.

Quote from: jakeroot on November 15, 2017, 08:54:33 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2017, 08:48:35 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on November 15, 2017, 06:39:36 PM
Cape Town, ZA

Think you might mean SF...

I think you might have meant SA, but either way, I'm used to writing ZA because that's their ISO country code.

So it is. At one point it must have been SF, as that was the two-letter code it was given on a large map we had at my school.

Please disregard.

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2017, 08:58:41 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on November 15, 2017, 08:54:33 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 15, 2017, 08:48:35 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on November 15, 2017, 06:39:36 PM
Cape Town, ZA

Think you might mean SF...

I think you might have meant SA, but either way, I'm used to writing ZA because that's their ISO country code.

So it is. At one point it must have been SF, as that was the two-letter code it was given on a large map we had at my school.

Please disregard.

That would make sense. South Africa, to distinguish it from South America (in the event that someone shorthands South America to SA).

SA is a very common shorthand for South Africa, since that's the initialism. I only know better because all their websites end in co.za, so I'm very used to the ISO code (I read a lot of South African news -- I find it to be a fascinating country, in terms of both roads and politics).

SF used to be the code for Finland on vehicles when driving internationally.

Quote from: riiga on November 16, 2017, 12:28:52 PM
SF used to be the code for Finland on vehicles when driving internationally.

Gotta wonder where that came from. Are the number plate codes based on the English language names of the countries, or the native language?

Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 01:10:05 PM

Quote from: riiga on November 16, 2017, 12:28:52 PM
SF used to be the code for Finland on vehicles when driving internationally.

Gotta wonder where that came from. Are the number plate codes based on the English language names of the countries, or the native language?

"Suomi Finland", no doubt.

Quote from: empirestate on November 16, 2017, 01:13:07 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 01:10:05 PM

Quote from: riiga on November 16, 2017, 12:28:52 PM
SF used to be the code for Finland on vehicles when driving internationally.

Gotta wonder where that came from. Are the number plate codes based on the English language names of the countries, or the native language?

"Suomi Finland", no doubt.

I thought that might have been it, but it sounded redundant. Surprised they didn't go with the ISO code FI.

Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 01:10:05 PM

Quote from: riiga on November 16, 2017, 12:28:52 PM
SF used to be the code for Finland on vehicles when driving internationally.

Gotta wonder where that came from. Are the number plate codes based on the English language names of the countries, or the native language?

Suomi Finland.

Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 01:14:27 PM

Quote from: empirestate on November 16, 2017, 01:13:07 PM
"Suomi Finland", no doubt.

I thought that might have been it, but it sounded redundant. Surprised they didn't go with the ISO code FI.

They changed to FIN in 1993. "Suomi Finland" was because it used both official languages of Finland: Finnish and Swedish.

Quote from: riiga on November 16, 2017, 02:06:59 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 01:14:27 PM

Quote from: empirestate on November 16, 2017, 01:13:07 PM
"Suomi Finland", no doubt.

I thought that might have been it, but it sounded redundant. Surprised they didn't go with the ISO code FI.

They changed to FIN in 1993. "Suomi Finland" was because it used both official languages of Finland: Finnish and Swedish.

Thank you. Didn't seem as straight-forward as just putting the country name twice.

Not really strange or unique. Just wrong.

A new-ish dogbone roundabout in Vancouver, WA briefly had markings that indicated left and straight were options from both lanes:

https://goo.gl/SVVayT

(https://i.imgur.com/Tzm9aSw.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/2Vm8WNH.png)

I was messing around on Google Maps, as you do, and I noticed that on this portion of US 6 in Connecticut, there are double broken white lines. I don't understand the purpose of this, especially because it looks like they keep repainting them that way when the old paint fades.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7200368,-72.2775835,3a,72.8y,41.22h,74.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXgRmkqd2ata6jZuMwPRg6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7200368,-72.2775835,3a,72.8y,41.22h,74.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXgRmkqd2ata6jZuMwPRg6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192)

And then the lane ends, and this happens:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7232959,-72.2561214,3a,25y,90.8h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-W1PdsTD6rEYI9aUzoLOlA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7232959,-72.2561214,3a,25y,90.8h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-W1PdsTD6rEYI9aUzoLOlA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

Here are some extremely thick lines denoting the turn lane on TX 35 near Danbury:

https://goo.gl/maps/xakQaviQHqZktxH37
https://goo.gl/maps/LhboTNzVwmE8REJE9

Quote from: kylebnjmnross on May 20, 2023, 09:46:43 PM
I was messing around on Google Maps, as you do, and I noticed that on this portion of US 6 in Connecticut, there are double broken white lines. I don't understand the purpose of this, especially because it looks like they keep repainting them that way when the old paint fades.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7200368,-72.2775835,3a,72.8y,41.22h,74.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXgRmkqd2ata6jZuMwPRg6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7200368,-72.2775835,3a,72.8y,41.22h,74.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXgRmkqd2ata6jZuMwPRg6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192)

And then the lane ends, and this happens:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7232959,-72.2561214,3a,25y,90.8h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-W1PdsTD6rEYI9aUzoLOlA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7232959,-72.2561214,3a,25y,90.8h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-W1PdsTD6rEYI9aUzoLOlA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

The lines at the end are meant to convey that the right lane can move left but the center lane cannot move to the right.  This is a common striping configuration in Europe.

I would guess the first part just means it is okay for the center lane to move right.  But since the distance to the merge is pretty far i can't tell you why a double white broken line is there and not a single one.

New York used to use double white broken lines for climbing lanes.  It's probably something to do with it being a (really long) merge lane.

Quote from: Mapmikey on May 21, 2023, 09:54:08 AM

Quote from: kylebnjmnross on May 20, 2023, 09:46:43 PM
I was messing around on Google Maps, as you do, and I noticed that on this portion of US 6 in Connecticut, there are double broken white lines. I don't understand the purpose of this, especially because it looks like they keep repainting them that way when the old paint fades.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7200368,-72.2775835,3a,72.8y,41.22h,74.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXgRmkqd2ata6jZuMwPRg6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7200368,-72.2775835,3a,72.8y,41.22h,74.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXgRmkqd2ata6jZuMwPRg6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192)

And then the lane ends, and this happens:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7232959,-72.2561214,3a,25y,90.8h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-W1PdsTD6rEYI9aUzoLOlA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7232959,-72.2561214,3a,25y,90.8h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-W1PdsTD6rEYI9aUzoLOlA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

The lines at the end are meant to convey that the right lane can move left but the center lane cannot move to the right.  This is a common striping configuration in Europe.

I would guess the first part just means it is okay for the center lane to move right.  But since the distance to the merge is pretty far i can't tell you why a double white broken line is there and not a single one.

Another thing with this situation is what happens after the right lane ends: https://goo.gl/maps/RTXYNKwdEdngZGe36.

I've never understood why some jurisdictions use a dotted lane line up to the point where the lane completely disappears. Why give the impression there's a lane all the way up to the point where the lane is gone? This example is pretty abrupt for the lane ending, but others that edge line tapers inward for a considerable distance making the travel lane gradually narrower until you realize the lane is ending. (I also find that examples, including this one, often don't have a "lane ends" warning sign, which further compounds the confusion.) Better to just not have a lane line at all, and have merge arrows near the taper.

Quote from: roadfro on May 21, 2023, 04:29:55 PM

Quote from: Mapmikey on May 21, 2023, 09:54:08 AM

Quote from: kylebnjmnross on May 20, 2023, 09:46:43 PM
I was messing around on Google Maps, as you do, and I noticed that on this portion of US 6 in Connecticut, there are double broken white lines. I don't understand the purpose of this, especially because it looks like they keep repainting them that way when the old paint fades.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7200368,-72.2775835,3a,72.8y,41.22h,74.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXgRmkqd2ata6jZuMwPRg6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7200368,-72.2775835,3a,72.8y,41.22h,74.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXgRmkqd2ata6jZuMwPRg6w!2e0!5s20220801T000000!7i16384!8i8192)

And then the lane ends, and this happens:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7232959,-72.2561214,3a,25y,90.8h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-W1PdsTD6rEYI9aUzoLOlA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7232959,-72.2561214,3a,25y,90.8h,83.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-W1PdsTD6rEYI9aUzoLOlA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

The lines at the end are meant to convey that the right lane can move left but the center lane cannot move to the right.  This is a common striping configuration in Europe.

I would guess the first part just means it is okay for the center lane to move right.  But since the distance to the merge is pretty far i can't tell you why a double white broken line is there and not a single one.

Another thing with this situation is what happens after the right lane ends: https://goo.gl/maps/RTXYNKwdEdngZGe36.

I've never understood why some jurisdictions use a dotted lane line up to the point where the lane completely disappears. Why give the impression there's a lane all the way up to the point where the lane is gone? This example is pretty abrupt for the lane ending, but others that edge line tapers inward for a considerable distance making the travel lane gradually narrower until you realize the lane is ending. (I also find that examples, including this one, often don't have a "lane ends" warning sign, which further compounds the confusion.) Better to just not have a lane line at all, and have merge arrows near the taper.

I think the typical practice in NY is to have the dotted line extend all the way to the end of the taper for an acceleration lane, and it doesn't bother me. It's easy enough to tell where the lane ends. And sometimes it can be useful to mark the dotted line over the taper for short merge areas where you want to clearly denote the edge of the travel lane and who has right-of-way.

What bothers me more is when acceleration lanes, auxiliary lanes etc. are given regular lane lines so you have no hint at all that it's not just another travel lane. NJ is really bad about this.

https://goo.gl/maps/Bc1P2GdFhn7L6emo7
Some may say the separate stop bars are strange, but considering semis swing wide turns, this is necessary for a right turn from the left.

Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on May 22, 2023, 01:01:51 AM

Quote from: roadfro on May 21, 2023, 04:29:55 PM
Another thing with this situation is what happens after the right lane ends: https://goo.gl/maps/RTXYNKwdEdngZGe36.

I've never understood why some jurisdictions use a dotted lane line up to the point where the lane completely disappears. Why give the impression there's a lane all the way up to the point where the lane is gone? This example is pretty abrupt for the lane ending, but others that edge line tapers inward for a considerable distance making the travel lane gradually narrower until you realize the lane is ending. (I also find that examples, including this one, often don't have a "lane ends" warning sign, which further compounds the confusion.) Better to just not have a lane line at all, and have merge arrows near the taper.

I think the typical practice in NY is to have the dotted line extend all the way to the end of the taper for an acceleration lane, and it doesn't bother me. It's easy enough to tell where the lane ends. And sometimes it can be useful to mark the dotted line over the taper for short merge areas where you want to clearly denote the edge of the travel lane and who has right-of-way.

What bothers me more is when acceleration lanes, auxiliary lanes etc. are given regular lane lines so you have no hint at all that it's not just another travel lane. NJ is really bad about this.

Perhaps it's a product of most of my driving experience being in places that don't do this. But I've driven in some other places that use this treatment with no other sign or pavement marking warning of the merge, so it's caught me off guard and merging last second. In an unfamiliar location, the dotted line can easily be confused for an indication of a continuing auxiliary lane.

As an example, here's a semi-typical NDOT treatment (https://goo.gl/maps/5YE6vA4SeDdiUVSy6)–lane line ends a distance about twice the length of the taper ahead of the taper, and then at least two merge arrows are used (one about half distance between end of lane line and beginning of taper, the other right before the taper).

I think the term we are looking for is "edge extension markings". They are used in many states, particularly the east and south. Alabama is a prolific user of them, if anyone looks around on Google Maps. Florida has a custom variant commonly found on their arterial roads, but not freeways (although they do use British-style (https://goo.gl/maps/MYwzRFbLppR8eCii7) markings at option-lane exits).

I do like when they are used at merges, as it reduces the legal ambiguity of who has right-of-way, plus it does seem to result in more drivers using the whole length of the merge area rather than merging right when the markings ends. Though admittedly, I think it's more about driver behavior in one particular area more than the markings. Here in Japan, we use edge extension markings all the time, particularly along expressways (example (https://goo.gl/maps/3KJHtsWuGvW1BbmKA) -- note the complete lack of arrow or merge sign, as the markings themselves mean 'merge over to continue'). In times of heavy traffic, Japanese drivers are prolific about merging as soon as physically possible, but this is more the result of their culture, where lining up is SOP for everything, and forcing your way in is frowned upon (anywhere, not just driving (https://149347190.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/People_waiting_a_train_in-Japan.jpg)). The only exception are construction zones, where zipper merging is acceptable.

edit: fixed link

Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2023, 07:29:58 PM
I think the term we are looking for is "edge extension markings". They are used in many states, particularly the east and south. Alabama is a prolific user of them, if anyone looks around on Google Maps. Florida has a custom variant commonly found on their arterial roads, but not freeways (although they do use British-style (http://v) markings at option-lane exits).

I do like when they are used at merges, as it reduces the legal ambiguity of who has right-of-way, plus it does seem to result in more drivers using the whole length of the merge area rather than merging right when the markings ends. Though admittedly, I think it's more about driver behavior in one particular area more than the markings. Here in Japan, we use edge extension markings all the time, particularly along expressways (example (https://goo.gl/maps/3KJHtsWuGvW1BbmKA) -- note the complete lack of arrow or merge sign, as the markings themselves mean 'merge over to continue'). In times of heavy traffic, Japanese drivers are prolific about merging as soon as physically possible, but this is more the result of their culture, where lining up is SOP for everything, and forcing your way in is frowned upon (anywhere, not just driving (https://149347190.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/People_waiting_a_train_in-Japan.jpg)). The only exception are construction zones, where zipper merging is acceptable.

Your "British-style" link just points to the letter 'v'...

I think I would be more accepting of the edge line extensions across the merge area if they used a different line marking style than the pattern that is also used for auxiliary/drop lanes. Your Japanese example is a pretty clear distinction.

Quote from: roadfro on May 23, 2023, 12:04:19 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2023, 07:29:58 PM
I think the term we are looking for is "edge extension markings". They are used in many states, particularly the east and south. Alabama is a prolific user of them, if anyone looks around on Google Maps. Florida has a custom variant commonly found on their arterial roads, but not freeways (although they do use British-style (https://goo.gl/maps/MYwzRFbLppR8eCii7) markings at option-lane exits).

I do like when they are used at merges, as it reduces the legal ambiguity of who has right-of-way, plus it does seem to result in more drivers using the whole length of the merge area rather than merging right when the markings ends. Though admittedly, I think it's more about driver behavior in one particular area more than the markings. Here in Japan, we use edge extension markings all the time, particularly along expressways (example (https://goo.gl/maps/3KJHtsWuGvW1BbmKA) -- note the complete lack of arrow or merge sign, as the markings themselves mean 'merge over to continue'). In times of heavy traffic, Japanese drivers are prolific about merging as soon as physically possible, but this is more the result of their culture, where lining up is SOP for everything, and forcing your way in is frowned upon (anywhere, not just driving (https://149347190.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/People_waiting_a_train_in-Japan.jpg)). The only exception are construction zones, where zipper merging is acceptable.

Your "British-style" link just points to the letter 'v'...

I think I would be more accepting of the edge line extensions across the merge area if they used a different line marking style than the pattern that is also used for auxiliary/drop lanes. Your Japanese example is a pretty clear distinction.

Fixed the link, sorry!

I think a different line marking style would definitely be necessary. British Columbia (probably the rest of Canada too) uses a unique marking, similar to Japan. It basically acts as a separator line between lanes that continue, and lanes that don't; get on the "inside" of the line if you want to continue on the road, stay on the outside if you want to exit. It's the same in Japan, and it's used at exit only lanes too (https://goo.gl/maps/jh1AAq2E93K4Wic36).

Not sure if this counts but it throws me off each time I see it...

Two way left turn lane becomes a right turn lane:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9ZvMDHyxp9m4NUkd7?g_st=ic

Quote from: CardInLex on June 08, 2023, 07:23:25 PM
Not sure if this counts but it throws me off each time I see it...

Two way left turn lane becomes a right turn lane:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9ZvMDHyxp9m4NUkd7?g_st=ic

Need to switch to satellite view on the map to see this. (I was confused at first because the latest Street View from Aug 2021 does not show a TWLTL.)

Quote from: roadfro on June 09, 2023, 10:02:08 AM

Quote from: CardInLex on June 08, 2023, 07:23:25 PM
Not sure if this counts but it throws me off each time I see it...

Two way left turn lane becomes a right turn lane:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9ZvMDHyxp9m4NUkd7?g_st=ic

Need to switch to satellite view on the map to see this. (I was confused at first because the latest Street View from Aug 2021 does not show a TWLTL.)

Sorry for the confusion. Haha. The link opens in satellite view for me. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Quote from: roadfro on May 21, 2023, 04:29:55 PM
Another thing with this situation is what happens after the right lane ends: https://goo.gl/maps/RTXYNKwdEdngZGe36.

I've never understood why some jurisdictions use a dotted lane line up to the point where the lane completely disappears.

I dislike it as well, but it is an option specifically described in the MUTCD (Figure 3B-9) for use at on-ramps.

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Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2023, 07:29:58 PM
I do like when they are used at merges, as it reduces the legal ambiguity of who has right-of-way ...

Not necessarily.  For example, Illinois state law puts equal responsibility on both drivers at a merge:

Quote from: Illinois Compiled Statutes
Vehicles

625 ILCS 5 – Illinois Vehicle Code

Article IX – Right-of-Way

Sec. 11-905 – Merging traffic – Notwithstanding the right-of-way provision in Section 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.

I pointed this fact out to |Crash_It| a couple of years ago.