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What state posts the worst control cities? The best?

Started by Roadgeekteen, April 13, 2021, 10:56:56 AM

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roadman65

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 14, 2021, 03:29:18 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2021, 03:06:45 AM
I-44 west shouldn't use Tulsa from St. Louis as Springfield, MO is most appropriate. Thus being a large regional city close to the Ozark Moutains and many other SW MO destinations. That would make most sense.

You're in St. Louis, and you see a sign for "I-44 West–Springfield". "Ah!" you say, guiding your car down the exit ramp. "I know this is my exit; I'm heading to Chicago, Illinois, and I remember my state capitals!"

Quote from: Rothman on April 13, 2021, 04:17:39 PM
There are only two control cities:

Albany and Buffalo. :D

This makes things extremely awkward for the engineers that have to sign I-27.

That is why the MO is used. Just like INDOT used to say Columbus, OH for I-70 East to avoid the confusion with Columbus, IN.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


Scott5114

"Tulsa" is a lot shorter than "Springfield MO" and can't be confused with anything in Illinois, though. :spin:
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

roadman65

Yeah but hundreds of miles out with the city disappearing for 200 of them.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

kphoger

Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:06:22 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 10:03:52 PM

Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?

Is most long distance traffic on the route, really going all the way to Portland?

I dunno about Portland but Redding is the only city I consider significant enough. And control cities should be meant for long-distance travelers.

"And control cities should be meant for long-distance travelers. "

Yes, that's why I specified it. Usually "most" traffic on a route is local, but control city signage is not for them. Hence, "most long-distance traffic" (excluding local traffic).

My opinion is that, if it's big enough to be a control city, then one should expect at least some out-of-area travelers to be heading there as a destination–or, at the very least, to know where it is.  I think Flagstaff fits the bill, with more than 70,000 people living there and it being a common jumping-off point (not literally) for the Grand Canyon.  And Redding also does, with nearly 100,000 people living there.

My own preference is to use a regional/local destination and a long-distance/faraway destination.  So I'd use REDDING/PORTLAND, for example.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Flint1979

The counties that I have clinched in Missouri are all along I-44 basically except for the counties in the Boot Hill area along I-55. I remember Rolla being used and can remember where that city is at. Springfield, MO might still confuse some people confusing it for Springfield, IL even with the state abbreviation. Why is Tulsa used in the St Louis area and then replaced before it gets to Tulsa?

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 14, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
The counties that I have clinched in Missouri are all along I-44 basically except for the counties in the Boot Hill area along I-55. I remember Rolla being used and can remember where that city is at. Springfield, MO might still confuse some people confusing it for Springfield, IL even with the state abbreviation. Why is Tulsa used in the St Louis area and then replaced before it gets to Tulsa?
When you are out of St. Louis it is no longer confusable with Springfield, IL?
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

SkyPesos

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 14, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
The counties that I have clinched in Missouri are all along I-44 basically except for the counties in the Boot Hill area along I-55. I remember Rolla being used and can remember where that city is at. Springfield, MO might still confuse some people confusing it for Springfield, IL even with the state abbreviation. Why is Tulsa used in the St Louis area and then replaced before it gets to Tulsa?
When you are out of St. Louis it is no longer confusable with Springfield, IL?
I mentioned it upthread, but as you go west on I-44 out of St Louis, Rolla starts appearing as a control city instead of Tulsa. You don't see Springfield WB until past Rolla.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 14, 2021, 11:35:38 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 14, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
The counties that I have clinched in Missouri are all along I-44 basically except for the counties in the Boot Hill area along I-55. I remember Rolla being used and can remember where that city is at. Springfield, MO might still confuse some people confusing it for Springfield, IL even with the state abbreviation. Why is Tulsa used in the St Louis area and then replaced before it gets to Tulsa?
When you are out of St. Louis it is no longer confusable with Springfield, IL?
I mentioned it upthread, but as you go west on I-44 out of St Louis, Rolla starts appearing as a control city instead of Tulsa. You don't see Springfield WB until past Rolla.
Rolla? I'd prefer Tulsa.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

SkyPesos

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 11:36:50 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 14, 2021, 11:35:38 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 14, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
The counties that I have clinched in Missouri are all along I-44 basically except for the counties in the Boot Hill area along I-55. I remember Rolla being used and can remember where that city is at. Springfield, MO might still confuse some people confusing it for Springfield, IL even with the state abbreviation. Why is Tulsa used in the St Louis area and then replaced before it gets to Tulsa?
When you are out of St. Louis it is no longer confusable with Springfield, IL?
I mentioned it upthread, but as you go west on I-44 out of St Louis, Rolla starts appearing as a control city instead of Tulsa. You don't see Springfield WB until past Rolla.
Rolla? I'd prefer Tulsa.
It's a college town, with Missouri University of Science and Technology.

If a town or small city have to be used as a control city, I think college towns are good choices over most others. I mentioned Columbia, MO (Mizzou) on I-70 as an example. Some others suggested using Champaign (UIUC) on I-57 and I-74, and Lafayette (Purdue) on I-65, most likely because they have well-known universities. With I-69 south of Indianapolis, I think Bloomington is a good control city because of IU. Though with Rolla, afaik, not a lot of people out of state heard of Missouri S&T.

kphoger

No, but everyone in Missouri knows where Rolla is.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 14, 2021, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 11:36:50 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 14, 2021, 11:35:38 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 14, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
The counties that I have clinched in Missouri are all along I-44 basically except for the counties in the Boot Hill area along I-55. I remember Rolla being used and can remember where that city is at. Springfield, MO might still confuse some people confusing it for Springfield, IL even with the state abbreviation. Why is Tulsa used in the St Louis area and then replaced before it gets to Tulsa?
When you are out of St. Louis it is no longer confusable with Springfield, IL?
I mentioned it upthread, but as you go west on I-44 out of St Louis, Rolla starts appearing as a control city instead of Tulsa. You don't see Springfield WB until past Rolla.
Rolla? I'd prefer Tulsa.
It's a college town, with Missouri University of Science and Technology.

If a town or small city have to be used as a control city, I think college towns are good choices over most others. I mentioned Columbia, MO (Mizzou) on I-70 as an example. Some others suggested using Champaign (UIUC) on I-57 and I-74, and Lafayette (Purdue) on I-65, most likely because they have well-known universities. With I-69 south of Indianapolis, I think Bloomington is a good control city because of IU. Though with Rolla, afaik, not a lot of people out of state heard of Missouri S&T.
Lafayette, Bloomington and Champaign are much bigger than Rolla. Wellesley has a college too (and has more people than Rolla!) but nobody wants Wellesley as a control city.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Flint1979

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 14, 2021, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 11:36:50 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 14, 2021, 11:35:38 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 14, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
The counties that I have clinched in Missouri are all along I-44 basically except for the counties in the Boot Hill area along I-55. I remember Rolla being used and can remember where that city is at. Springfield, MO might still confuse some people confusing it for Springfield, IL even with the state abbreviation. Why is Tulsa used in the St Louis area and then replaced before it gets to Tulsa?
When you are out of St. Louis it is no longer confusable with Springfield, IL?
I mentioned it upthread, but as you go west on I-44 out of St Louis, Rolla starts appearing as a control city instead of Tulsa. You don't see Springfield WB until past Rolla.
Rolla? I'd prefer Tulsa.
It's a college town, with Missouri University of Science and Technology.

If a town or small city have to be used as a control city, I think college towns are good choices over most others. I mentioned Columbia, MO (Mizzou) on I-70 as an example. Some others suggested using Champaign (UIUC) on I-57 and I-74, and Lafayette (Purdue) on I-65, most likely because they have well-known universities. With I-69 south of Indianapolis, I think Bloomington is a good control city because of IU. Though with Rolla, afaik, not a lot of people out of state heard of Missouri S&T.
On I-65 Chicago and Indy are going to be dominate.

Flint1979

Rolla being used is fine. I'm still wondering why Tulsa is used going WB and then replaced with Rolla.

roadman65

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 14, 2021, 12:10:15 PM
Rolla being used is fine. I'm still wondering why Tulsa is used going WB and then replaced with Rolla.

That is like I-70 using St. Louis out of KC to be then signed Columbia.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Flint1979

Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2021, 12:11:26 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 14, 2021, 12:10:15 PM
Rolla being used is fine. I'm still wondering why Tulsa is used going WB and then replaced with Rolla.

That is like I-70 using St. Louis out of KC to be then signed Columbia.
Columbia would work in both KC and STL.

jmacswimmer

^

This might not be the answer, but just a non-local perspective: Maybe MoDOT uses Tulsa in STL to assist long-distance traffic transitioning from other routes such as I-55, I-64, or I-70, and then once this traffic is "settled" on I-44 leaving STL, they use more local controls since this long-distance traffic will simply be continuing straight for a while?
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

roadman65

Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 14, 2021, 12:16:23 PM
^

This might not be the answer, but just a non-local perspective: Maybe MoDOT uses Tulsa in STL to assist long-distance traffic transitioning from other routes such as I-55, I-64, or I-70, and then once this traffic is "settled" on I-44 leaving STL, they use more local controls since this long-distance traffic will simply be continuing straight for a while?

I would say in a case like that use Rolla and Tulsa together, and every 10 miles or so use a mileage sign separate from the post interchange mileage signs to spell out Tulsa.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

SkyPesos

Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 14, 2021, 12:16:23 PM
^

This might not be the answer, but just a non-local perspective: Maybe MoDOT uses Tulsa in STL to assist long-distance traffic transitioning from other routes such as I-55, I-64, or I-70, and then once this traffic is "settled" on I-44 leaving STL, they use more local controls since this long-distance traffic will simply be continuing straight for a while?
That may be the explanation for Kansas City on I-70 too. Though for KC, St Louis county is pretty consistent with signing Kansas City as WB I-70's control at every entrance ramp and pullthrough. Once you cross over the Missouri River into St Charles County, that's when you start seeing Wentzville and Columbia over KC, except the MO 370 and I-64 interchanges because they're freeway to freeway.

On I-44, first appearance of Rolla is at the MO 141 interchange, 4 miles west of the I-270 interchange. The interchange with I-270 is I-44's last interstate-interstate interchange westbound until I-49 in Joplin, so I guess like you said, a lot of the traffic settled onto I-44 leaving StL at that point, and even more so past MO 141.

Something interesting. Mileage sign west of the MO 141 interchange. Rolla isn't mentioned at all despite being mentioned as a control city just east of that sign. The three destinations listed are:
Ft Leonard Wood - 111
Springfield - 194
Tulsa - 370

roadman65

I-270 annoys me that they prefer Chicago over Indy.  N Bound it is signed for that city despite in IL I-270 defaults into I-70 East again and even IDOT signing Indianapolis from Chain of Rocks Bridge to the I-70 merge.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

hbelkins

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 13, 2021, 10:15:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 02:56:06 PM
Kentucky's are generally good, although I'm not crazy about Fulton being used on I-69.

West Virginia's are iffy. I can understand using Huntington, Charleston, Beckley, Clarksburg, Parkersburg, and Morgantown. But Lewisburg on I-64 east of Beckley is ridiculous. Lexington, Va., would be a better choice. And instead of Bluefield south of Beckley, I'd use Wytheville, Va., since it's a major interstate intersection. On I-77 north of Parkersburg, I'd use Cambridge, Ohio (major intersection) or even one of the bigger Ohio cities like Akron or Cleveland instead of Marietta. Washington, Pa., is a good choice since it's also a major intersection.
I wouldn't be opposed to continuous use of Richmond for I-64 East and Charlotte for I-77 South.

Sure, Lexington and Wytheville are interstate junctions, but are not major cities. Richmond and Charlotte would provide better guidance for long distance traffic.

Richmond and Charlotte are used as supplementals at the 64-77 split, but they disappear. You don't see Charlotte until the I-77 split from I-81, and if memory serves, you don't even see Richmond until I-64 east splits from I-81 north at Staunton. Lexington shows up east of Lewisburg.

And I would use Statesville on I-77 south of I-81 because it's the intersection with I-40. Once I-74 gets finished, I might even change that to Mt. Airy.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2021, 01:27:53 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 13, 2021, 10:15:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 02:56:06 PM
Kentucky's are generally good, although I'm not crazy about Fulton being used on I-69.

West Virginia's are iffy. I can understand using Huntington, Charleston, Beckley, Clarksburg, Parkersburg, and Morgantown. But Lewisburg on I-64 east of Beckley is ridiculous. Lexington, Va., would be a better choice. And instead of Bluefield south of Beckley, I'd use Wytheville, Va., since it's a major interstate intersection. On I-77 north of Parkersburg, I'd use Cambridge, Ohio (major intersection) or even one of the bigger Ohio cities like Akron or Cleveland instead of Marietta. Washington, Pa., is a good choice since it's also a major intersection.
I wouldn't be opposed to continuous use of Richmond for I-64 East and Charlotte for I-77 South.

Sure, Lexington and Wytheville are interstate junctions, but are not major cities. Richmond and Charlotte would provide better guidance for long distance traffic.

Richmond and Charlotte are used as supplementals at the 64-77 split, but they disappear. You don't see Charlotte until the I-77 split from I-81, and if memory serves, you don't even see Richmond until I-64 east splits from I-81 north at Staunton. Lexington shows up east of Lewisburg.

And I would use Statesville on I-77 south of I-81 because it's the intersection with I-40. Once I-74 gets finished, I might even change that to Mt. Airy.
Statesville is too close to Charlotte.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Flint1979

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 02:15:34 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2021, 01:27:53 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 13, 2021, 10:15:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 02:56:06 PM
Kentucky's are generally good, although I'm not crazy about Fulton being used on I-69.

West Virginia's are iffy. I can understand using Huntington, Charleston, Beckley, Clarksburg, Parkersburg, and Morgantown. But Lewisburg on I-64 east of Beckley is ridiculous. Lexington, Va., would be a better choice. And instead of Bluefield south of Beckley, I'd use Wytheville, Va., since it's a major interstate intersection. On I-77 north of Parkersburg, I'd use Cambridge, Ohio (major intersection) or even one of the bigger Ohio cities like Akron or Cleveland instead of Marietta. Washington, Pa., is a good choice since it's also a major intersection.
I wouldn't be opposed to continuous use of Richmond for I-64 East and Charlotte for I-77 South.

Sure, Lexington and Wytheville are interstate junctions, but are not major cities. Richmond and Charlotte would provide better guidance for long distance traffic.

Richmond and Charlotte are used as supplementals at the 64-77 split, but they disappear. You don't see Charlotte until the I-77 split from I-81, and if memory serves, you don't even see Richmond until I-64 east splits from I-81 north at Staunton. Lexington shows up east of Lewisburg.

And I would use Statesville on I-77 south of I-81 because it's the intersection with I-40. Once I-74 gets finished, I might even change that to Mt. Airy.
Statesville is too close to Charlotte.
It's about 40 miles which seems like an ok distance.

thspfc

Rolla is way too small for a major cross-country Interstate, especially with Springfield and Tulsa not far away.

sprjus4

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 16, 2021, 10:12:03 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 14, 2021, 02:15:34 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2021, 01:27:53 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 13, 2021, 10:15:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 02:56:06 PM
Kentucky's are generally good, although I'm not crazy about Fulton being used on I-69.

West Virginia's are iffy. I can understand using Huntington, Charleston, Beckley, Clarksburg, Parkersburg, and Morgantown. But Lewisburg on I-64 east of Beckley is ridiculous. Lexington, Va., would be a better choice. And instead of Bluefield south of Beckley, I'd use Wytheville, Va., since it's a major interstate intersection. On I-77 north of Parkersburg, I'd use Cambridge, Ohio (major intersection) or even one of the bigger Ohio cities like Akron or Cleveland instead of Marietta. Washington, Pa., is a good choice since it's also a major intersection.
I wouldn't be opposed to continuous use of Richmond for I-64 East and Charlotte for I-77 South.

Sure, Lexington and Wytheville are interstate junctions, but are not major cities. Richmond and Charlotte would provide better guidance for long distance traffic.

Richmond and Charlotte are used as supplementals at the 64-77 split, but they disappear. You don't see Charlotte until the I-77 split from I-81, and if memory serves, you don't even see Richmond until I-64 east splits from I-81 north at Staunton. Lexington shows up east of Lewisburg.

And I would use Statesville on I-77 south of I-81 because it's the intersection with I-40. Once I-74 gets finished, I might even change that to Mt. Airy.
Statesville is too close to Charlotte.
It's about 40 miles which seems like an ok distance.
But Charlotte is the much larger city in that case. Statesville is nothing more than an interstate junction (which I don't agree with should be considered major control cities) and not much long distance traffic is transitioning to I-40.

kphoger

Is Rolla used as a primary control city or a secondary control city?  I mean, Illinois uses Cairo (pop. 2000) on some signs like this.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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