(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.upstatenyroads.com%2Faaroads%2FIMG_2433.jpg&hash=297c0ca23231cecd3c0a81dd93681583b9650719)
A smaller version of a Cuomo sign. This sign stands alone and is found on your way into Robert Moses State Park near Massena. I was surprised as to it's location and the size, it's smaller than any of its counterparts that I've seen elsewhere in the state.
Cuomo signs were installed on the SB Northway approaching Exit 13. There are NONE north of that point and south of Exit 29. Didn't go north of there, but it appears that NYSDOT is honoring the tradition of only posting necessary signs in the Adirondacks.
Most of the busier state parks have small Cuomo signs at the entrances. Saratoga and Thatcher have them out here.
Yeah, they did find something bad. The piers were on the verge of failure, hence why they had to knock the thing down and rebuild.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on October 21, 2016, 12:51:57 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.upstatenyroads.com%2Faaroads%2FIMG_2433.jpg&hash=297c0ca23231cecd3c0a81dd93681583b9650719)
A smaller version of a Cuomo sign. This sign stands alone and is found on your way into Robert Moses State Park near Massena. I was surprised as to it's location and the size, it's smaller than any of its counterparts that I've seen elsewhere in the state.
A similar sign graces the parking area at Watkins Glen State Park.
More Cuomo Signs changes:
-The ones EB and WB on the Thruway between exits 44 and 45 have been moved a bit and are now full sets
-I-490 WB has a set after exit 26
-I-490 EB has a set after exit 4
I posted a list of the Thruway Cuomo signs I know of on the Thruway page, but I noticed a few more NYSDOT ones when in Buffalo this weekend:
-NY 33 WB near NY 277
-Niagara Scenic Parkway west of I-190. Another small sign similar to those found at the entrances to many state parks is located before the roundabout, so there are two sets between I-190 and the roundabout with no intermediate exit
-I-190 SB south of Upper Mountain Road
NY 33 and I-190 are the old style with no parks sign. All of these went up since the end of June.
Based on the sign plans, Cuomo wants these things at every entrance to the state, so they'll end up in places like NY 149 which barely have a welcome sign right now.
So clearly we should start checking random CR junctions, because Cuomo is that persistent.
A good example would be start checking the Southern Tier crossings for it, because there are a ton that don't need them.
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on October 31, 2016, 12:38:27 AM
So clearly we should start checking random CR junctions, because Cuomo is that persistent.
A good example would be start checking the Southern Tier crossings for it, because there are a ton that don't need them.
Seriously? Most CR border crossing I've seen don't even have signs to tell you that you're in a different state. If you're lucky, they'll post the county name.
Someone needs to check out Albany airport road. Looks like a prime spot. Or advertising state to out-of-state travelers makes too much sense to implement?
There's a reason why I mentioned NY 149. It's in a developed area, so there's only a little sign similar to a town line sign at the border. It's due to get the full treatment. Wonder how the residents of Granville village will respond to that.
Quote from: dgolub on October 31, 2016, 08:44:48 AM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on October 31, 2016, 12:38:27 AM
So clearly we should start checking random CR junctions, because Cuomo is that persistent.
A good example would be start checking the Southern Tier crossings for it, because there are a ton that don't need them.
Seriously? Most CR border crossing I've seen don't even have signs to tell you that you're in a different state. If you're lucky, they'll post the county name.
The first sentence was being sarcastic. I wouldn't put anything past Cuomo.
They have to be kidding! What is this state government smoking? Huge numbers of these signs have suddenly appeared on the Long Island State Parkways in Region 10. And they are located so close together as to be dangerously distracting in my opinion. They must be wasting big bucks to put these up on parkways that badly need repaving which is not getting done! And I'll betcha half of them get knocked down this winter in snowstorms. We'll see if they get replaced faster than the exit signs when that happens.
Christ, and I though Pennsylvania was bad with its signs...
(seriously, each and every town border signs has something about Boy Scout troops...)
Quote from: SignBridge on October 31, 2016, 08:31:55 PM
They have to be kidding! What is this state government smoking? Huge numbers of these signs have suddenly appeared on the Long Island State Parkways in Region 10. And they are located so close together as to be dangerously distracting in my opinion. They must be wasting big bucks to put these up on parkways that badly need repaving which is not getting done! And I'll betcha half of them get knocked down this winter in snowstorms. We'll see if they get replaced faster than the exit signs when that happens.
See now why those of us Upstate have been complaining? There's a bunch of stuff they
should be spending the money on, but the money goes to the pet projects.
Now y'all know how I feel when people get militant about how NY should transition to mileage-based exit numbers. :-D
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
Has anyone ever seen an amount of money tied to the installation of these new CuomoSigns™ and associated TasteNY Markets? I know there was a ridiculous tourism budget but I'm curious as to how much of that money went specifically into the highway elements of the campaign. It would be interesting to see how many critical projects could have been addressed with the associated money.
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
I guess it's too late now to ask what the hell "Cuomo signs" are without looking like a total idiot, so I'm going to pretend I know what they are and say, "oh interesting!"
Quote from: Ian on November 02, 2016, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
I guess it's too late now to ask what the hell "Cuomo signs" are without looking like a total idiot, so I'm going to pretend I know what they are and say, "oh interesting!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTxhZRCGSsE - and if you notice some out-of-place signs, you may get an idea of what we're talking about.
Quote from: Ian on November 02, 2016, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
I guess it's too late now to ask what the hell "Cuomo signs" are without looking like a total idiot, so I'm going to pretend I know what they are and say, "oh interesting!"
No need to feel silly asking. Basically, they are these (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=jBhSScHKyADWmM%3A). The state is spending god knwos how much money to plaster signs like this and this (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=nuFUwbVvLxhRVM%3A) on more or less any road that might cross a border or have out-of-state drivers on it.
Fun fact, these stupid things are even in the NYC Subway system. I've seen one at the 8th St-NYU BMT stop in NoHo. I'm actually surprised these haven't made it into either Penn Station or Grand Central yet.
Quote from: storm2k on November 02, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Ian on November 02, 2016, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
I guess it's too late now to ask what the hell "Cuomo signs" are without looking like a total idiot, so I'm going to pretend I know what they are and say, "oh interesting!"
No need to feel silly asking. Basically, they are these (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=jBhSScHKyADWmM%3A). The state is spending god knwos how much money to plaster signs like this and this (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=nuFUwbVvLxhRVM%3A) on more or less any road that might cross a border or have out-of-state drivers on it.
Fun fact, these stupid things are even in the NYC Subway system. I've seen one at the 8th St-NYU BMT stop in NoHo. I'm actually surprised these haven't made it into either Penn Station or Grand Central yet.
The only places any of these signs belong is at the border and the ferry ports. I can see Port Jeff getting them, but no way in hell does it make sense to add them to Sag Harbor, Montauk Highway, or every few miles on the parkways.
Having said that, it makes much more sense to spend the money on projects that actually improve the road. It's the same thing as blowing money on wildflower projects.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on November 02, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: storm2k on November 02, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Ian on November 02, 2016, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
I guess it's too late now to ask what the hell "Cuomo signs" are without looking like a total idiot, so I'm going to pretend I know what they are and say, "oh interesting!"
No need to feel silly asking. Basically, they are these (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=jBhSScHKyADWmM%3A). The state is spending god knwos how much money to plaster signs like this and this (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=nuFUwbVvLxhRVM%3A) on more or less any road that might cross a border or have out-of-state drivers on it.
Fun fact, these stupid things are even in the NYC Subway system. I've seen one at the 8th St-NYU BMT stop in NoHo. I'm actually surprised these haven't made it into either Penn Station or Grand Central yet.
The only places any of these signs belong is at the border and the ferry ports. I can see Port Jeff getting them, but no way in hell does it make sense to add them to Sag Harbor, Montauk Highway, or every few miles on the parkways.
Having said that, it makes much more sense to spend the money on projects that actually improve the road. It's the same thing as blowing money on wildflower projects.
I saw an article in the Times Union yesterday saying that the NYSTA executive director recently retired over a dispute with Cuomo over the signs.
The Feds are definitely on our side with this one...
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/blogs/vote-up/2016/11/02/ny-highway-signs-illegal/93173466/
Quote from: cl94 on November 02, 2016, 05:05:15 PM
The Feds are definitely on our side with this one...
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/blogs/vote-up/2016/11/02/ny-highway-signs-illegal/93173466/
I wonder if they would do anything about it... Seems like entire story lasts for 3 years, so.. two more years until next elections?
Quote from: cl94 on November 02, 2016, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on November 02, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
Quote from: storm2k on November 02, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Ian on November 02, 2016, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
I guess it's too late now to ask what the hell "Cuomo signs" are without looking like a total idiot, so I'm going to pretend I know what they are and say, "oh interesting!"
No need to feel silly asking. Basically, they are these (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=jBhSScHKyADWmM%3A). The state is spending god knwos how much money to plaster signs like this and this (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=nuFUwbVvLxhRVM%3A) on more or less any road that might cross a border or have out-of-state drivers on it.
Fun fact, these stupid things are even in the NYC Subway system. I've seen one at the 8th St-NYU BMT stop in NoHo. I'm actually surprised these haven't made it into either Penn Station or Grand Central yet.
The only places any of these signs belong is at the border and the ferry ports. I can see Port Jeff getting them, but no way in hell does it make sense to add them to Sag Harbor, Montauk Highway, or every few miles on the parkways.
Having said that, it makes much more sense to spend the money on projects that actually improve the road. It's the same thing as blowing money on wildflower projects.
I saw an article in the Times Union yesterday saying that the NYSTA executive director recently retired over a dispute with Cuomo over the signs.
http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Top-Thruway-official-Maria-Lehman-retires-10426263.php
Quote from: empirestate on November 02, 2016, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on November 02, 2016, 03:27:17 PM
We know of those. I'm referring to Phase II, which does everything north of future exit 20 (in Westchester)
Hmm, perhaps they're waiting for the Pudding St. project before getting to that section?
iPhone
Possibly, but since they're mile-based numbers, I'm not really sure why they would need to.
Quote from: storm2k on November 02, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Ian on November 02, 2016, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
I guess it's too late now to ask what the hell "Cuomo signs" are without looking like a total idiot, so I'm going to pretend I know what they are and say, "oh interesting!"
No need to feel silly asking. Basically, they are these (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=jBhSScHKyADWmM%3A). The state is spending god knwos how much money to plaster signs like this and this (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=nuFUwbVvLxhRVM%3A) on more or less any road that might cross a border or have out-of-state drivers on it.
Fun fact, these stupid things are even in the NYC Subway system. I've seen one at the 8th St-NYU BMT stop in NoHo. I'm actually surprised these haven't made it into either Penn Station or Grand Central yet.
Technically, the signs are more like this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nysroads.com%2Fimages%2Fgallery%2FNY%2Fi90%2F101_4741-s.JPG&hash=bcfacaf732fba499ad9d4821f2111e2550be2e31)
Well this CuomoSign issue just gets better and better! I wonder how long it will take the FHWA to threaten withdrawal of Federal Highway Aid $$ to New York State over these signs. That should get Cuomo's attention. Then they can waste another million-and-a-half dollars to take them all down.
Quote from: vdeane on November 02, 2016, 01:05:39 PM
Quote from: storm2k on November 02, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
Quote from: Ian on November 02, 2016, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 02, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned, but I saw the classic set of CuomoSigns™ right before Exit 56 EB on the Thruway.
I guess it's too late now to ask what the hell "Cuomo signs" are without looking like a total idiot, so I'm going to pretend I know what they are and say, "oh interesting!"
No need to feel silly asking. Basically, they are these (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=jBhSScHKyADWmM%3A). The state is spending god knwos how much money to plaster signs like this and this (https://www.google.com/search?q=i+love+ny+highway+signs&tbm=isch&imgil=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%253BnNTMnzHeaewJeM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsagharboronline.com%25252Feast-end-residents-angered-love-new-york-signs%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jBhSScHKyADWmM%253A%252CnNTMnzHeaewJeM%252C_&usg=__DHFVWoYoQGh28DLb_H1-RCfcAGc%3D&biw=1600&bih=791&ved=0ahUKEwiT4c25uYrQAhVBxYMKHWkCA3EQyjcILw&ei=dg4aWJPOLcGKjwTphIyIBw#imgrc=nuFUwbVvLxhRVM%3A) on more or less any road that might cross a border or have out-of-state drivers on it.
Fun fact, these stupid things are even in the NYC Subway system. I've seen one at the 8th St-NYU BMT stop in NoHo. I'm actually surprised these haven't made it into either Penn Station or Grand Central yet.
Technically, the signs are more like this:
[img snipped]
Thanks for the help. I've seen those signs around New York for sure, but didn't know there was a nickname for them. They definitely seem a little excessive.
The CuomoSigns™ in the Corning-Elmira are before exit 48 eastbound and before exit 54 westbound on I-86, and at the state line on I-99.
A few other notes:
US 15 has returned to I-99! When the new section opened, the freeway from the state line to Painted Post was designated just I-99, but NYSDOT has taken the old US 15 signs out of storage and put them up again. Also a new paved U-turn has just been added to the newest section, next to the Stowell Road bridges – the carriageways are on different elevations, so the U-turn looks a bit steep.
Northbound I-390 traffic between Wayland and Cohocton has just been returned to its own carriageway, newly rebuilt with Portland cement concrete. :clap: :clap: :clap: (I would have given an extra clap, but the shoulders are blacktop)
Odd sequences of half-covered Advance Big Blue Signs for the rest areas on I-86 in Steuben County, near Kanona westbound and Campbell eastbound. The top has TEXT STOP and REST AREA, with the bottom half (or more) covered with black plastic. One sign in each sequence is completely covered. Is this for new TasteNY™ centers? No sign of construction work within the rest areas.
Probably truck inspection. You know, the sign guy for R6 is a fellow roadgeek, so someone could ask him...
On a different topic, R1 threw up a bunch of APLs in Schenectady as part of the I-890 project. One is non-compliant as it has 2 option lanes.
Quote from: cl94 on November 02, 2016, 05:05:15 PM
The Feds are definitely on our side with this one...
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/blogs/vote-up/2016/11/02/ny-highway-signs-illegal/93173466/
I like how they called the BBS the "motherboard." That has me laughing inside.
On a more serious note, I agree with the FHWA (obviously). It wasn't until I deliberately looked for that "I <3 NY APP" line a few months ago that I realized nobody would be able to take in the contents of a CuomoSigns™ Motherboard doing 65+ MPH. Who wants to get in an accident trying to read this novel of a sign? Also interesting how I've never seen a crew put any of these up. They must do it at like 3 AM on a Sunday morning.
And the font...this is NOT Disney World!
Mods: possible to split off the Cuomo signs into the existing new thread on the topic?
Quote from: empirestate on November 04, 2016, 07:45:19 AM
Mods: possible to split off the Cuomo signs into the existing new thread on the topic?
Yes, it would be good if possible. It's completely taken over this thread.
Quote from: GenExpwy on November 03, 2016, 07:20:21 PM
The CuomoSigns™ in the Corning-Elmira are before exit 48 eastbound and before exit 54 westbound on I-86, and at the state line on I-99.
A few other notes:
US 15 has returned to I-99! When the new section opened, the freeway from the state line to Painted Post was designated just I-99, but NYSDOT has taken the old US 15 signs out of storage and put them up again. Also a new paved U-turn has just been added to the newest section, next to the Stowell Road bridges — the carriageways are on different elevations, so the U-turn looks a bit steep.
Northbound I-390 traffic between Wayland and Cohocton has just been returned to its own carriageway, newly rebuilt with Portland cement concrete. :clap: :clap: :clap: (I would have given an extra clap, but the shoulders are blacktop)
Odd sequences of half-covered Advance Big Blue Signs for the rest areas on I-86 in Steuben County, near Kanona westbound and Campbell eastbound. The top has TEXT STOP and REST AREA, with the bottom half (or more) covered with black plastic. One sign in each sequence is completely covered. Is this for new TasteNY™ centers? No sign of construction work within the rest areas.
I travel that stretch of 390 - 86 - 15/99 monthly, and I don't recall the US 15 reassurance signs even being taken down. The overhead BGSs on 86 East approaching 99/15 had a greenout covering US 15 with I-99 for a while, and then a second greenout was placed with both I-99 AND US 15 on it.
The rest areas on 86 that you mentioned were "temporary" truck inspection stops quite often (it seemed like every month on my travels for the past 2 years), so my guess is that they are making those permanent signs instead of putting the temporary signs up every time.
The US 15 signs never came down except on the BGSes or if they did, it was only for a very short time.
Quote from: dgolub on November 04, 2016, 08:46:56 AM
Quote from: empirestate on November 04, 2016, 07:45:19 AM
Mods: possible to split off the Cuomo signs into the existing new thread on the topic?
Yes, it would be good if possible. It's completely taken over this thread.
Just as the signs have completely taken over the highways of New York.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on November 04, 2016, 12:37:03 PM
Quote from: dgolub on November 04, 2016, 08:46:56 AM
Quote from: empirestate on November 04, 2016, 07:45:19 AM
Mods: possible to split off the Cuomo signs into the existing new thread on the topic?
Yes, it would be good if possible. It's completely taken over this thread.
Just as the signs have completely taken over the highways of New York.
Hahahaha.
Saw more of them being erected today in Region-10 on the Meadowbrook Pkwy. by the Roosevelt Field Mall. They had a lane closed and traffic was backed up!
Quote from: SignBridge on November 04, 2016, 08:39:11 PM
Saw more of them being erected today in Region-10 on the Meadowbrook Pkwy. by the Roosevelt Field Mall. They had a lane closed and traffic was backed up!
THERE? That gets no tourist traffic whatsoever.
Well maybe it does. It's a main-route to Jones Beach State Park and there are several modern high-rise hotels right off the parkway in that area and the Nassau Coliseum. But I'm still not in favor of these highly distracting signs especially in a high-frequency accident area like that antiquated stretch of the Meadowbrook Pkwy. built to mid-1950's standards.
I wouldn't put it past Cuomo for him to care more about his signs and Taste NY than NY's federal highway funding. Or to respond to concerns about being able to read the signs at 65 mph with a reduction in the speed limit.
I wouldn't put anything past King Cuomo II. Micromanager? Check. Pork projects? Check. Honestly, I'm hoping he gets a cabinet position just to get him out of state government. I don't like the Lt. Governor, but I'd take her over Cuomo. Thankfully, stuff like a speed limit reduction would have to get through both chambers and I don't think that would happen given who controls the Senate and the bipartisan support that exists for raising speed limits.
Quote from: vdeane on November 06, 2016, 12:13:33 AM
I wouldn't put it past Cuomo for him to care more about his signs and Taste NY than NY's federal highway funding. Or to respond to concerns about being able to read the signs at 65 mph with a reduction in the speed limit.
Does TZB gets any federal funding? Putting one pet project at risk to keep the other alive may be more interesting...
Quote from: storm2k on November 02, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
Fun fact, these stupid things are even in the NYC Subway system. I've seen one at the 8th St-NYU BMT stop in NoHo. I'm actually surprised these haven't made it into either Penn Station or Grand Central yet.
I've mentioned this in the past, but I saw something close at the 167th Street Jerome Avenue El two years ago.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Concourse_HD_Path_Through_History_@_167th_Street-Jerome.JPG
What's the point...I was in both NF NY and NF Ontario Sunday for lunch and a get together, Ontario doesn't promote their side and they have a mini-Vegas in Clifton Hill. While the Parkway downgrade will help aesthetically, I've yet to see a reason why I should spend a day over here when given the option to visit the Falls. They're trying I guess, but it's just too dilapidated for most people.
If the Lasalle Expressway connected to NY 425 and were extended west to Rainbow Blvd, we would have a change in fortunes, I'm sure ;-).
Quote from: cl94 on November 06, 2016, 12:34:13 AM
I wouldn't put anything past King Cuomo II. Micromanager? Check. Pork projects? Check. Honestly, I'm hoping he gets a cabinet position just to get him out of state government. I don't like the Lt. Governor, but I'd take her over Cuomo. Thankfully, stuff like a speed limit reduction would have to get through both chambers and I don't think that would happen given who controls the Senate and the bipartisan support that exists for raising speed limits.
Depending on the outcome of the election, it
would be amusing to see Andrew Cuomo get appointed to be Secretary of USDOT.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 08, 2016, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: cl94 on November 06, 2016, 12:34:13 AM
I wouldn't put anything past King Cuomo II. Micromanager? Check. Pork projects? Check. Honestly, I'm hoping he gets a cabinet position just to get him out of state government. I don't like the Lt. Governor, but I'd take her over Cuomo. Thankfully, stuff like a speed limit reduction would have to get through both chambers and I don't think that would happen given who controls the Senate and the bipartisan support that exists for raising speed limits.
Depending on the outcome of the election, it would be amusing to see Andrew Cuomo get appointed to be Secretary of USDOT.
I'm betting on Attorney General. At least it would make thousands of state employees happy.
Today's Newsday, Long Island's major newspaper published a big story entitled Conflict Over Roadsigns. The article pretty much told the whole story and specifically stated that the FHWA is waiting for a "plan of corrective action" from NYS and said the penalty could include witholding Federal funds. They did not indicate how much money was involved. State officials said "they have no plans to end the program". Stay tuned.
Quote from: SignBridge on November 08, 2016, 07:47:32 PM
Today's Newsday, Long Island's major newspaper published a big story entitled Conflict Over Roadsigns. The article pretty much told the whole story and specifically stated that the FHWA is waiting for a "plan of corrective action" from NYSDOT and said the penalty could include witholding Federal funds.
Stay tuned.
About f-ing time
There's a set on the mainline in both directions between Exits 11 and 12. As if that area wasn't crazy enough was it was.
I can't remember if they've been mentioned before (not that we can list them all given how many there are) but I experienced the full set of 5 on 155 East leaving the Albany Airport yesterday. I doubt they were the reason it took me 20 minutes to get through the traffic from the airport exit to the Northway SB ramp, but I'll go ahead and blame them anyway.
AP Story has picked up the story: http://www.syracuse.com/state/index.ssf/2016/11/feds_to_cuomo_i_love_ny_highway_signs_could_cost_1b_in_highway_money.html#incart_river_home
Quote
The FHA has threatened to cut nearly $1 billion in federal funding to the state if the signs aren't removed.
State officials have long contended that the signs help promote tourism and provide valuable information about New York's attractions.
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll. He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding. Awkward!
(personal opinion emphasized)
Any new information on the Cuomo signs? A meeting was to take place. Cuomo should be ordered to pay for these, personally.
Quote from: goldfishcrackers4 on December 07, 2016, 08:48:40 AM
Any new information on the Cuomo signs? A meeting was to take place. Cuomo should be ordered to pay for these, personally.
Wait a little bit, this will be about oh-so-
progressive good for (insert current mantra) Cuomo II vs damn Trump administration withholding funds from NY for voting for Clinton. Only show stopper is that they have to wait for inauguration before proceeding..
Edited to reflect ever-changing politics
"Progressive" is a relative term, but I digress
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll. He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding. Awkward!
And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.
I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll. He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding. Awkward!
And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.
I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.
There are sets on free I-87, north of Albany. Hard to dispute FHWA authority over there.
And no, this is not about promoting anything - other than ego of one single person. I honestly tried that damn app. As useless as it gets.
Please also think from a different perspective - this is effectively about advertisement on highway. And that can get out of control pretty fast. I would rather have some variations of "exit" tab placement....
Quote from: kalvado on December 07, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll. He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding. Awkward!
And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.
I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.
There are sets on free I-87, north of Albany. Hard to dispute FHWA authority over there.
And no, this is not about promoting anything - other than ego of one single person. I honestly tried that damn app. As useless as it gets.
Please also think from a different perspective - this is effectively about advertisement on highway. And that can get out of control pretty fast. I would rather have some variations of "exit" tab placement....
And there are signs on I-81, I-84, I-86, I-190 (the NYSDOT portion), I-390, I-495...
It's also not your tax dollars that are being wasted on this. We're the ones paying for Cuomo's ego trip.
Quote from: cl94 on December 07, 2016, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 07, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll. He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding. Awkward!
And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.
I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.
There are sets on free I-87, north of Albany. Hard to dispute FHWA authority over there.
And no, this is not about promoting anything - other than ego of one single person. I honestly tried that damn app. As useless as it gets.
Please also think from a different perspective - this is effectively about advertisement on highway. And that can get out of control pretty fast. I would rather have some variations of "exit" tab placement....
And there are signs on I-81, I-84, I-86, I-190 (the NYSDOT portion), I-390, I-495...
It's also not your tax dollars that are being wasted on this. We're the ones paying for Cuomo's ego trip.
Not to mention the entrance of every state park, the exit of many airports and other such nonsense. These signs do nothing to provide safety or guidance information to motorists. If the state wanted to spend millions of dollars on billboards that are installed according to local zoning laws regarding billboards, I'm fine with that. What Cuomo did here was bypass zoning laws for such advertisements and put advertising on road signs. There's no guidance. There's no service. There's no warning. It's just a sign, "We have parks!" Why can't Pepsi now request signs that say "We have Pepsi!" Or "We have Pepsi in the parks!" By using road signs for billboard purposes the state has opened a can of worms about advertising on roadways, has decreased motorist safety by encouraging motorists to download an app (while driving?) and other such nonsense.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll. He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding. Awkward!
And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.
I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.
And since the New York State Thruway carries Interstate designations, as well as the fact that the MUTCD is applicable to any roadway in NYS for public use, the Thruway falls under that jurisdiction. If the FHWA deems to signs as not compliant with the MUTCD, then those signs along the Thruway would also have to be removed.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 07, 2016, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: cl94 on December 07, 2016, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 07, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll. He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs. Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding. Awkward!
And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.
I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.
There are sets on free I-87, north of Albany. Hard to dispute FHWA authority over there.
And no, this is not about promoting anything - other than ego of one single person. I honestly tried that damn app. As useless as it gets.
Please also think from a different perspective - this is effectively about advertisement on highway. And that can get out of control pretty fast. I would rather have some variations of "exit" tab placement....
And there are signs on I-81, I-84, I-86, I-190 (the NYSDOT portion), I-390, I-495...
It's also not your tax dollars that are being wasted on this. We're the ones paying for Cuomo's ego trip.
Not to mention the entrance of every state park, the exit of many airports and other such nonsense. These signs do nothing to provide safety or guidance information to motorists. If the state wanted to spend millions of dollars on billboards that are installed according to local zoning laws regarding billboards, I'm fine with that. What Cuomo did here was bypass zoning laws for such advertisements and put advertising on road signs. There's no guidance. There's no service. There's no warning. It's just a sign, "We have parks!" Why can't Pepsi now request signs that say "We have Pepsi!" Or "We have Pepsi in the parks!" By using road signs for billboard purposes the state has opened a can of worms about advertising on roadways, has decreased motorist safety by encouraging motorists to download an app (while driving?) and other such nonsense.
Honestly speaking, having tourism information in the airport is pretty standard. I wouldn't mind these signs in airport lobby.
But trying to navigate a unfamiliar area.. I am guaranteed to ignore anything non-essential, I-XX signs is what I usually look for.
I hope Cuomo doesn't read that. Then he'll start putting ads on the guide signs too!
:poke:
They are remarkably consistent signs, in design at least, and from a production standpoint. One region didn't decide to put boxes around the URL, another region didn't prefix the Experience line with unnecessary TO banners, and I have yet to see a place name mis-spelled. Of course, they were likely not fabricated by the regional sign shops...
Then again, spacing is completely random...
:wave:
Quote from: Flyer78 on December 08, 2016, 10:55:49 AM
:poke:
They are remarkably consistent signs, in design at least, and from a production standpoint. One region didn't decide to put boxes around the URL, another region didn't prefix the Experience line with unnecessary TO banners, and I have yet to see a place name mis-spelled. Of course, they were likely not fabricated by the regional sign shops...
Then again, spacing is completely random...
:wave:
One thing I noticed this past weekend is that the word "Enjoy" in a script font is left off the Thruway versions of the signs, resulting in a blank line. There must have been some mandate saying all the signs except the motherboard had to be a certain size.
I just realized half of these signs will probably get knocked down in snowstorms this winter, like happens to a lot of signs every winter.
Quote from: SignBridge on December 08, 2016, 08:11:23 PM
I just realized half of these signs will probably get knocked down in snowstorms this winter, like happens to a lot of signs every winter.
Although not applicable to NY state (thanks vdeane for the clarification), it's very unusual for extruded panel signs on steel beam supports to get knocked down by snowstorms. What typically happens in those rare instances when such a sign is hit by a severe blast of snow (usually from a plow, and not the storm itself) is that the breakaway hinges will fail, causing the panel to flop over on the back of the posts.
Quote from: roadman on December 09, 2016, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: SignBridge on December 08, 2016, 08:11:23 PM
I just realized half of these signs will probably get knocked down in snowstorms this winter, like happens to a lot of signs every winter.
Actually, it's very unusual for extruded panel signs on steel beam supports to get knocked down by snowstorms. What typically happens in those rare instances when such a sign is hit by a severe blast of snow (usually from a plow, and not the storm itself) is that the breakaway hinges will fail, causing the panel to flop over on the back of the posts.
Minor detail: New York doesn't use extruded signs.
In all my Upstate NY winters, I can't recall noticing very many signs being damaged due to snowstorms. While I suppose we can hope that some plow drivers will do their best to take some of these out, I am not holding out hope.
Here is a marketing consultant's take on the signs: not busy enough.
http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/12/problem_with_thruway_tourism_signs_they_arent_distracting_enough_commentary.html#incart_river_home
Quote
A good reason the signs should not come down as the feds want is that tourism grows jobs and tax revenues. This is especially important in economically lagging areas Upstate that are not always good prospects for attracting industry.
But there's also a good reason they should come down. It's that as tourism marketing, they're just not very good signs.
Displaying a traffic engineer's knowledge of marketing, the signs simply don't sell. They show four state tourism logos for historic attractions, recreational destinations, food and drink spots, and other I-Love-New-York attractions but convey almost no other information.
Quote from: Flyer78 on December 09, 2016, 11:34:16 AM
Here is a marketing consultant's take on the signs: not busy enough.
http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/12/problem_with_thruway_tourism_signs_they_arent_distracting_enough_commentary.html#incart_river_home
Quote
A good reason the signs should not come down as the feds want is that tourism grows jobs and tax revenues. This is especially important in economically lagging areas Upstate that are not always good prospects for attracting industry.
But there's also a good reason they should come down. It's that as tourism marketing, they're just not very good signs.
Displaying a traffic engineer's knowledge of marketing, the signs simply don't sell. They show four state tourism logos for historic attractions, recreational destinations, food and drink spots, and other I-Love-New-York attractions but convey almost no other information.
ANd that shows exactly why these signs should be treated as ads on highway..
Quote from: Jim on December 09, 2016, 09:30:19 AM
In all my Upstate NY winters, I can't recall noticing very many signs being damaged due to snowstorms. While I suppose we can hope that some plow drivers will do their best to take some of these out, I am not holding out hope.
Not usually plow drivers, but motorists occasionally take out mile markers, reference markers, exit gore signs, and sometimes even guide signs when they skid and lose control. We already have at least two or three downed gore signs around here, and last year I actually called the Albany County residency to report a downed milemarker and route shield.
Vdeane is correct and that's what I meant in my post. Drivers lose control and hit the signs. And now with so many closely spaced targets to choose from LOL, it ought to be interesting. And yes, the slip-joints at the base of the signs do work as intended causing the leg to collapse and the sign flops over like a drunken dinosaur.
I often wonder what the freak happened to this sign:
https://goo.gl/maps/J2qDUCiMzFt (https://goo.gl/maps/J2qDUCiMzFt)
It's a little skewed in the Google View, but it got a lot worse where the supports were totally bent.
There are a few messed up signs in that area. I've been wondering the same thing.
Quote from: Rothman on December 10, 2016, 12:05:10 AM
I often wonder what the freak happened to this sign:
https://goo.gl/maps/J2qDUCiMzFt (https://goo.gl/maps/J2qDUCiMzFt)
It's a little skewed in the Google View, but it got a lot worse where the supports were totally bent.
I believe they claimed wind was the problem. If someone saved on steel railings... That is a big sign on long straight road...
Plows usually take out mailboxes! :-D
More often than not it's an errant vehicle that'll wipe out a sign, although strong winds and heavy snow can topple one on occasion as well.
Quote from: cl94 on December 09, 2016, 09:23:59 AM
Quote from: roadman on December 09, 2016, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: SignBridge on December 08, 2016, 08:11:23 PM
I just realized half of these signs will probably get knocked down in snowstorms this winter, like happens to a lot of signs every winter.
Actually, it's very unusual for extruded panel signs on steel beam supports to get knocked down by snowstorms. What typically happens in those rare instances when such a sign is hit by a severe blast of snow (usually from a plow, and not the storm itself) is that the breakaway hinges will fail, causing the panel to flop over on the back of the posts.
Minor detail: New York doesn't use extruded signs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6GuEswXOXo
Correct, I've revised my original post. Appreciate the clarification.
It's a common mistake. We're one of the few states where none of the major transportation agencies use extruded signs.
Quote from: cl94 on December 12, 2016, 03:12:20 PM
It's a common mistake. We're one of the few states where none of the major transportation agencies use extruded signs.
I'm pretty sure it's just New York, North Carolina, Florida, Washington (state), and Virginia, right? A veritable who's who of rounded-corner sign panels (excluding Washington :-/)
Quote from: kalvado on December 10, 2016, 01:41:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 10, 2016, 12:05:10 AM
I often wonder what the freak happened to this sign:
https://goo.gl/maps/J2qDUCiMzFt (https://goo.gl/maps/J2qDUCiMzFt)
It's a little skewed in the Google View, but it got a lot worse where the supports were totally bent.
I believe they claimed wind was the problem. If someone saved on steel railings... That is a big sign on long straight road...
The supports were sizeable. Amazing if only wind took that thing down.
Quote from: jakeroot on December 12, 2016, 04:10:22 PM
Quote from: cl94 on December 12, 2016, 03:12:20 PM
It's a common mistake. We're one of the few states where none of the major transportation agencies use extruded signs.
I'm pretty sure it's just New York, North Carolina, Florida, Washington (state), and Virginia, right? A veritable who's who of rounded-corner sign panels (excluding Washington :-/)
Think so. DC switched to extruded relatively recently. New Jersey is split (NJDOT uses extruded, NJTA doesn't).
Are there any notable pros and cons re: extruded vs. incremental signs that cause states to choose one or the other? I always preferred New York's signs because of the better looking rounded off corners and extruded signs sometimes have that crappy rippled appearance on the sign-face.
I hate the Cuomo signs as much as anyone and think it's to feed the Gov's ego just like NY-198; with that said, I'm playing devil's advocate here......
In the fed's eyes, what makes the Cuomo sign's different than the logo services or adopt a highway signs? I could see NY making the case that they're similar.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on December 15, 2016, 03:01:48 PM
I hate the Cuomo signs as much as anyone and think it's to feed the Gov's ego just like NY-198; with that said, I'm playing devil's advocate here......
In the fed's eyes, what makes the Cuomo sign's different than the logo services or adopt a highway signs? I could see NY making the case that they're similar.
They have a URL. That's the big one. Can't have a URL on a sign.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on December 15, 2016, 03:01:48 PM
I hate the Cuomo signs as much as anyone and think it's to feed the Gov's ego just like NY-198; with that said, I'm playing devil's advocate here......
In the fed's eyes, what makes the Cuomo sign's different than the logo services or adopt a highway signs? I could see NY making the case that they're similar.
A logo or adopt-a-highway sign tells you something about that particular location. Both give specific information for a specific location. The Cuomo signs do not. There is no action associated with these sign aside from the passive app download. These function like billboards, not traffic guidance. These messages should be on billboards.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 16, 2016, 08:05:09 AM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on December 15, 2016, 03:01:48 PM
I hate the Cuomo signs as much as anyone and think it's to feed the Gov's ego just like NY-198; with that said, I'm playing devil's advocate here......
In the fed's eyes, what makes the Cuomo sign's different than the logo services or adopt a highway signs? I could see NY making the case that they're similar.
A logo or adopt-a-highway sign tells you something about that particular location. Both give specific information for a specific location. The Cuomo signs do not. There is no action associated with these sign aside from the passive app download. These function like billboards, not traffic guidance. These messages should be on billboards.
The app and the tourism website. That is literally the only thing the signs are good for.
Near the RFK bridge I see they put up a huge electronic one.. IMHO VERY BAD placement.. if anyone knows the Bruckner expressway and that sharp curve where you can stay to the left for Queens or the right for Manhattan I came around the curve and all I saw was it shifting by it sliding and fading to a different pattern.. my first thing out of my mouth was WTF...
I wished I had got a picture but they were doing road work in that area and the merge is no fun at all.
There's a set on either set of NY 17 Exit 96 that went up at some point. Interesting placement.
Link of the area
https://goo.gl/maps/jH1x5f8nTXn
That sign must be new I got tired of taking the FDR to get to Cadman plaza
That's definitely new. It was a diagrammatic when I was through there last summer.
Quote from: cl94 on February 01, 2017, 12:25:25 AM
That's definitely new. It was a diagrammatic when I was through there last summer.
Hmm never noticed it before I still don't think it's a good spot to have a animated Cuomo sign however.
I wonder if that's part of Cuomo's bridge AET project.
Quote from: cl94 on January 31, 2017, 11:19:40 PM
There's a set on either set of NY 17 Exit 96 that went up at some point. Interesting placement.
That's right around the Catskill Park boundary.
I know, except the EB set is inside the park
More Cuomo signs coming in D263370. Link - https://www.dot.ny.gov/doing-business/opportunities/const-contract-docs?p_d_id=D263370
Quote from: route17fan on February 07, 2017, 02:17:08 PM
More Cuomo signs coming in D263370. Link - https://www.dot.ny.gov/doing-business/opportunities/const-contract-docs?p_d_id=D263370
Pretty sure those Cuomo signs are already there. Notes on the plans say to retain existing signs.
According to Newsday, the Cuomo Signs are on hold while NYSDOT negotiates with the FHWA.
Cuomo signs on expressways have been there for months. As far as the ones planned for surface roads at the borders, who knows if they'll ever go up.
To add to vdeane's comment, according to Long Island's Newsday, as per negotiations between NYS and the FHWA no more of these signs will be erected and discussions are continuing to work out a disposition for the exisiting signs. The Feds still threaten to cut one-billion dollars in annual highway funding if the existing signs are not taken down. Not a small chunk of change....
Quote from: SignBridge on February 07, 2017, 09:03:23 PM
To add to vdeane's comment, according to Long Island's Newsday, as per negotiations between NYS and the FHWA no more of these signs will be erected and discussions are continuing to work out a disposition for the exisiting signs. The Feds still threaten to cut one-billion dollars in annual highway funding if the existing signs are not taken down. Not a small chunk of change....
With all this talk about how the Trump administration cannot withhold federal funding from sanctuary cities that defy federal law and edicts on immigration, how could this threat from the feds hold up?
Of course my position that the feds shouldn't be so heavy-handed about signage is a minority one around here...
Not your tax dollars. There has been major local opposition to these signs and the cost that could be spent on other projects.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 08, 2017, 10:36:17 AM
Quote from: SignBridge on February 07, 2017, 09:03:23 PM
To add to vdeane's comment, according to Long Island's Newsday, as per negotiations between NYS and the FHWA no more of these signs will be erected and discussions are continuing to work out a disposition for the exisiting signs. The Feds still threaten to cut one-billion dollars in annual highway funding if the existing signs are not taken down. Not a small chunk of change....
With all this talk about how the Trump administration cannot withhold federal funding from sanctuary cities that defy federal law and edicts on immigration, how could this threat from the feds hold up?
Of course my position that the feds shouldn't be so heavy-handed about signage is a minority one around here...
Problem is where to draw a line. Sanctuary cities, as far as I understand, just say that enforcement of immigration laws is not their business. Not explicitly defying regulations - just not enforcing them. If you will, it is pretty much the same as not checking federal tax return status when pulling over for speeding.
Here we're talking about explicit violation of mandate - and (unlike immigration enforcement) a funded mandate to maintain roads by certain standards.
On the other hand, there already a precedent of feds effectively looking the other way - with all marijuana state laws.
I don't know where this would settle - but I am really afraid of Cuomo going out of control once he feels he can get away with that. Especially with Trump in the office, and Cuomo being almost official enemy of Trump. This way Cuomo can get significant support, especially in NYC, with any action against feds - however stupid that action would be.
Quote
With all this talk about how the Trump administration cannot withhold federal funding from sanctuary cities that defy federal law and edicts on immigration, how could this threat from the feds hold up?
Because not all federal funds are created equal. By law, USDOT divvies out federal funds for transportation to the states through FHWA. The Secretary of Transportation maintains full control of the apportionments and obligation limitation. I don't know how it is with sanctuary cities, but FHWA does have full control over how much in federal transportation funds go to which state. They are fully within their rights to either lower the amount available to NY, or, possibly in the case of the Taste of NY rest area facilities, deem certain roads ineligible for federal funding.
Not exactly signs - but looks like FHWA is OK with "Taste NY" establishments on I-81 if they go to self-service checkouts - IF there will be new ones...
Price tag for Cuomo Signs jumps from $1.8M to $8.1M
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2017/02/15/love-ny-signs-cost/97950936/
QuoteALBANY - New York paid about $8.1 million to print and install "I Love NY" highway signs across the state, despite being warned they violate federal law.
The state Department of Transportation and Thruway Authority spent about $3.6 million for materials and $4.5 million to install the large, blue signs, which now dot roadways across the state and are at the center of an ongoing feud with the federal government.
The cost was significantly more than the DOT said in November, when it estimated the state spent $1.76 million on materials.
Quote from: GenExpwy on February 16, 2017, 08:59:30 AM
Price tag for Cuomo Signs jumps from $1.8M to $8.1M
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2017/02/15/love-ny-signs-cost/97950936/
QuoteALBANY - New York paid about $8.1 million to print and install "I Love NY" highway signs across the state, despite being warned they violate federal law.
The state Department of Transportation and Thruway Authority spent about $3.6 million for materials and $4.5 million to install the large, blue signs, which now dot roadways across the state and are at the center of an ongoing feud with the federal government.
The cost was significantly more than the DOT said in November, when it estimated the state spent $1.76 million on materials.
I wonder if that includes the additional labor the Thruway shelled out to keep relocating the signs in some locations.
Quote from: GenExpwy on February 16, 2017, 08:59:30 AM
Price tag for Cuomo Signs jumps from $1.8M to $8.1M
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2017/02/15/love-ny-signs-cost/97950936/
QuoteALBANY - New York paid about $8.1 million to print and install "I Love NY" highway signs across the state, despite being warned they violate federal law.
The state Department of Transportation and Thruway Authority spent about $3.6 million for materials and $4.5 million to install the large, blue signs, which now dot roadways across the state and are at the center of an ongoing feud with the federal government.
The cost was significantly more than the DOT said in November, when it estimated the state spent $1.76 million on materials.
$7k in materials and $9k installation cost per sign. Is that normal, or on the higher end of spectrum?
http://news10.com/2017/02/14/ny-tourism-signs-to-be-removed-after-feds-say-theyre-illegal/
These signs would have bothered me regardless, but they really began to bother me when they scrapped the original "motherboard" signs and installed new ones because the original signs were the wrong shade of blue, then they started taking down pertinent motorist signs to not distract from the Cuomo signs, then they started relocating the signs because some of them weren't in the "ideal" location and many of the signs were installed on the Thruway during weekend overnight hours in late August. Portable lights, many workers, lane closures, all at 11:00 PM on a Saturday to install these things. I know for a fact that the Thruway Authority was resisting this but Cuomo was resilient, especially in the Syracuse area, because he wanted them up for the State Fair. The foundations weren't given enough time to cure and they're already cracking. How much money is going to be spent to maintain these things?
Quote from: vdeane on February 16, 2017, 08:10:15 PM
http://news10.com/2017/02/14/ny-tourism-signs-to-be-removed-after-feds-say-theyre-illegal/
Misleading headline, non-story.
Quote from: kalvado on February 16, 2017, 08:01:37 PM
$7k in materials and $9k installation cost per sign. Is that normal, or on the higher end of spectrum?
I don't have exact dimensions of the signs handy. But for the sake of argument, let's say the signs are similar to 6 panel LOGO service signs in other states, which are typically 18 feet wide by 13 feet high, or 234 square feet. $7K divided by 234 square feet is just under $30 a square foot. While this price is not totally unreasonable for a handful of signs, it is clearly the high end in this case, where you've got such a large number of Cuomo signs that have been installed.
Now let's consider the support posts. Unless NY State has adopted some outrageously high design wind speed for ground-mounted posts
##, $9K to furnish and install a pair of W flange posts and foundations appears to be beyond the high end of the price spectrum. Posts and foundations for similar sized signs on MA projects will run between $2,800 to $4,000 per installation.
## Most states (MA and NH among them) only require use of current AASHTO design wind speed for overhead sign structures, and still allow a 75 or 90 mph design wind speed for ground-mounted sign posts. The rationale is that, if wind takes down a ground-mounted sign, it will only fall over and not pose a hazard to traffic. As such, the additional design and fabrication cost for the larger posts required to support (pardon the pun) a design wind speed of 110 or 130 mph is not justified.
I'm going to guess they're not designed for 110 or 130 mph: the signs along the Thruway east of Victor are all bent back at an angle or lying on the ground after the 70-80 mph winds yesterday.
I read articles that said the signs were so rushed that the concrete anchoring the sign posts didn't even have time to properly cure. This is probably the result of that.
I saw this on my Facebook News Feed earlier today: Local Assemblyman wants to halt repairs to "I Love NY" signs (http://www.whec.com/news/local-assemblyman-wants-to-halt-repairs-i-love-ny-signs/4431554/?cat=565)
I find it funny that Cuomo signs show up when you go to Google Images and search for "illegal highway sign".
As an aside, why is this topic a sticky?
Many BGS and other signs were damaged in that storm as well, shouldn't those get priority? The Cuomo signs are a waste of money anyway.
Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2017, 12:47:41 PM
I read articles that said the signs were so rushed that the concrete anchoring the sign posts didn't even have time to properly cure. This is probably the result of that.
If the stub posts and slip bases on the fallen posts are intact,
AND the foundations are dislodged, that could be the cause. In my experience, however, the typical failure of ground-mounted BGS signs in severe snow/wind events is either due to one or both posts separating from the slip base, or from the sign flopping over when the top hinges fail. Does anyone out here have actual photos of the damaged posts/foundations so we can verify this.
Quote from: roadman on March 22, 2017, 02:47:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2017, 12:47:41 PM
I read articles that said the signs were so rushed that the concrete anchoring the sign posts didn't even have time to properly cure. This is probably the result of that.
If the stub posts and slip bases on the fallen posts are intact, that could be the cause. In my experience, however, the typical failure of ground-mounted BGS signs in severe snow/wind events is either due to one or both posts separating from the slip base, or from the sign flopping over when the top hinges fail. Does anyone out here have actual photos of the damaged posts/foundations so we can verify this.
Haven't been able to get photos while driving the Thruway but my best description would be the post in the ground and the post on the sign back are fine, but what looks like a shear pin connecting them has bent. I obviously don't have the right terminology either.
Quote from: Sam on March 23, 2017, 02:37:58 PM
Quote from: roadman on March 22, 2017, 02:47:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2017, 12:47:41 PM
I read articles that said the signs were so rushed that the concrete anchoring the sign posts didn't even have time to properly cure. This is probably the result of that.
If the stub posts and slip bases on the fallen posts are intact, AND the foundations are dislodged, that could be the cause. In my experience, however, the typical failure of ground-mounted BGS signs in severe snow/wind events is either due to one or both posts separating from the slip base, or from the sign flopping over when the top hinges fail. Does anyone out here have actual photos of the damaged posts/foundations so we can verify this.
Haven't been able to get photos while driving the Thruway but my best description would be the post in the ground and the post on the sign back are fine, but what looks like a shear pin connecting them has bent. I obviously don't have the right terminology either.
If the stubs (part of post in the foundation) and the foundations are not dislodged or damaged at all, then the bad concrete theory is a red herring. Sounds to me like the lower breakaway couplings/slip bases on the sign posts sheared. This shouldn't, and normally doesn't, happen unless a vehicle directly hits the post. Even for a 75 mph wind design, it takes a significantly higher wind force to cause that to happen on its own. Although equally rare, I've seen such separation occur as the result of snow drifts from passing plows impacting the post bases.
(OK, lets see if I've got the link right...)
GSV shows the signs east of Victor westbound. Just below the sign are two "collars" with a short section in between. That short section is what bent in the wind, causing some of the signs to lean back. The posts in the ground are still straight and plumb.
The signs that fell seemed to break away just above ground.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Governor+Thomas+E.+Dewey+Thruway,+Victor,+NY+14564/@42.9968635,-77.3891143,3a,12.7y,19.5h,87.39t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s9mJqvR1lej-Ds5KNqsOKfw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89d131e7f8639789:0xb2c5a3ea94d1e104
iPhone Pro
Quote from: Sam on March 25, 2017, 10:00:19 PM
(OK, lets see if I've got the link right...)
GSV shows the signs east of Victor westbound. Just below the sign are two "collars" with a short section in between. That short section is what bent in the wind, causing some of the signs to lean back. The posts in the ground are still straight and plumb.
The signs that fell seemed to break away just above ground.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Governor+Thomas+E.+Dewey+Thruway,+Victor,+NY+14564/@42.9968635,-77.3891143,3a,12.7y,19.5h,87.39t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s9mJqvR1lej-Ds5KNqsOKfw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89d131e7f8639789:0xb2c5a3ea94d1e104
iPhone Pro
Thanks for the link. The short sections in the photo are called hinge points, which are intended to allow the posts to break away when struck by a vehicle. However, I've never seen a hinge point design like these before, and they look extremely flimsy compared to more typical designs. Failure of these hinge points in excessive wind has nothing to do with the foundations or the concrete.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/7a3763cee36d22f5bdec547e11a2c66d.png)
Looks like the heavy wind just caused the thin supports to bend........ :-D
Feds: NY state could lose $14M in funding over highway signs
http://13wham.com/news/state/feds-ny-state-could-lose-14m-in-funding-over-highway-signs-02-01-2018
Also, the FHWA sent a letter to NYSDOT to remove the signs by September 30th.
https://www.scribd.com/document/370530666/Letter-to-NYSDOT-and-NYSTA-From-Acting-FHWA-Administrator-Hendrickson
The Federal Housing Administration sent a letter to NYSDOT? :D
See my post in the NY thread. Although this is certainly bad press, the effect is laughably minimal, in my opinion.
Quote from: Rothman on February 01, 2018, 09:48:08 PM
The Federal Housing Administration sent a letter to NYSDOT? :D
See my post in the NY thread. Although this is certainly bad press, the effect is laughably minimal, in my opinion.
I fixed it. :D
And the saga continues:
https://dailygazette.com/article/2018/02/02/controversial-tourism-signs-will-come-down
Quote
so the signs will be removed in favor of signs promoting a new "NY has it all!" tourism campaign.
Do I read it correct - existing signs will be removed, as requested by FHWA - but a different set of signs will be posted instead?
I'm glad that this will include those on the Thruway.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 03, 2018, 10:37:38 AM
Would this include those on the Thruway?
from the same article:
Quote
In a joint statement, Thruway Authority Executive Director Matthew Driscoll and acting state Department of Transportation Commissioner Paul A. Karas ....
Quote from: kalvado on February 03, 2018, 10:07:18 AM
And the saga continues:
https://dailygazette.com/article/2018/02/02/controversial-tourism-signs-will-come-down
Quote
so the signs will be removed in favor of signs promoting a new "NY has it all!" tourism campaign.
Do I read it correct - existing signs will be removed, as requested by FHWA - but a different set of signs will be posted instead?
From a NY Post article on the removal/replacement...
Quote
But Cuomo said last October it was probably time for the signs to be taken down.
"They are up, they have been up for years," Cuomo said at the time. "We have no resolution with the federal government, but they have been up for so long that it's almost time to come up with a new campaign."
(https://nypost.com/2018/02/02/cuomo-will-finally-replace-i-%E2%99%A5-ny-signs/)
They've... been up... for "so long?" Well, I guess there is an upside to the economy, at least with respect to sign shops and DOT crews...
Wonder if FHWA will be so anal-retentive over whatever they come up with as a replacement campaign?
Quote from: hbelkins on February 03, 2018, 02:41:02 PM
Wonder if FHWA will be so anal-retentive over whatever they come up with as a replacement campaign?
Could be political issue - governor elections are coming, and this may be a sensitive issue. With Cuomo being absolutely anti-Trump, he could spin this into "another punch against blue states" or "personal vendetta against highly successful program". Feds may want to hold on until after elections - and either deal with a more sane governor, or with same governor in a slightly less aggressive mode.
We'll see..
I figured that the move to take funds away now as opposed to when the signs went up years ago is 100% political. FHWA first got involved during the previous administration. Why are they only taking funds away now, after the governor had a feud with the president? Either way, I think this will end up working in Cuomo's favor due to the timing of it. It will very quickly become "see, the GOP administration is taking New York's money away!" He will spin this as an anti-blue state ploy, given that they waited 2 years to issue a fine. We all know that EVERY Democrat running for office in a blue or purple state would seize on a fine for something like that.
Honestly, I think both sides are being stupid here. Signs going up are a waste of my tax dollars and the feds threatening to withhold funding will end up coming back to bite them.
Quote from: cl94 on February 03, 2018, 03:44:06 PM
I figured that the move to take funds away now as opposed to when the signs went up years ago is 100% political. FHWA first got involved during the previous administration. Why are they only taking funds away now, after the governor had a feud with the president? Either way, I think this will end up working in Cuomo's favor due to the timing of it. It will very quickly become "see, the GOP administration is taking New York's money away!" He will spin this as an anti-blue state ploy, given that they waited 2 years to issue a fine. We all know that EVERY Democrat running for office in a blue or purple state would seize on a fine for something like that.
Honestly, I think both sides are being stupid here. Signs going up are a waste of my tax dollars and the feds threatening to withhold funding will end up coming back to bite them.
I believe threat to withhold funding was on the table for quite a while. This is 2016 article: https://liherald.com/stories/Hempostead-federal-officials-agree-I-Love-NY-signs-must-go
Quote from: FHWAspokesmen
We are working to bring the state into compliance. If it becomes clear that is not going to happen, we will make a determination about the penalty. It could be a range of things from withholding federal approval for projects to withholding highway funding.
More like bureaucratic machine slowly coming to that point regardless of top brass opinion. Is Cuomo going to use it for political reasons? Well, if the sun goes up tomorrow, he will; if not - quiet compliance may be an option
Quote from: kalvado on February 03, 2018, 04:11:56 PM
Quote from: cl94 on February 03, 2018, 03:44:06 PM
I figured that the move to take funds away now as opposed to when the signs went up years ago is 100% political. FHWA first got involved during the previous administration. Why are they only taking funds away now, after the governor had a feud with the president? Either way, I think this will end up working in Cuomo's favor due to the timing of it. It will very quickly become "see, the GOP administration is taking New York's money away!" He will spin this as an anti-blue state ploy, given that they waited 2 years to issue a fine. We all know that EVERY Democrat running for office in a blue or purple state would seize on a fine for something like that.
Honestly, I think both sides are being stupid here. Signs going up are a waste of my tax dollars and the feds threatening to withhold funding will end up coming back to bite them.
I believe threat to withhold funding was on the table for quite a while. This is 2016 article: https://liherald.com/stories/Hempostead-federal-officials-agree-I-Love-NY-signs-must-go
Quote from: FHWAspokesmen
We are working to bring the state into compliance. If it becomes clear that is not going to happen, we will make a determination about the penalty. It could be a range of things from withholding federal approval for projects to withholding highway funding.
More like bureaucratic machine slowly coming to that point regardless of top brass opinion. Is Cuomo going to use it for political reasons? Well, if the sun goes up tomorrow, he will; if not - quiet compliance may be an option
Yes, this is an ongoing issue, and I don't think that the person who occupies the White House has much to do with the minutiae of these federal technical decisions.
I agree. The FHWA first attempted to negotiate for voluntary compliance. And when that finally failed they withheld the $14 million as a fine for non-compliance. Sounds like normal procedures to me.
The signs are awful and are put up in some really bad spots such as the Bronx River Pkwy with all it's twists and turns.
During the evening of Friday the 16th, I went past my first Cuomo Signs as a driver. If I actually wanted to read them while paying attention to the road and traffic, it would have been impossible. I think they need to be between 1.5 and 2 times farther apart than what they are.
A few weeks ago, NewsChannel 9 posted an article (http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/defrancisco-calls-out-dot-for-defending-delusional-gov-cuomo/955271220) about the "bickering" over the signs between Senator John DeFrancisco and Andrew Cuomo. I'm going to post the NewsChannel 9 Facebook post (https://www.facebook.com/NewsChannel9/posts/10156057141145351) too because of the comments on it.
Quote from: Michael on February 21, 2018, 09:44:10 PM
During the evening of Friday the 16th, I went past my first Cuomo Signs as a driver. If I actually wanted to read them while paying attention to the road and traffic, it would have been impossible. I think they need to be between 1.5 and 2 times farther apart than what they are.
A few weeks ago, NewsChannel 9 posted an article (http://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/defrancisco-calls-out-dot-for-defending-delusional-gov-cuomo/955271220) about the "bickering" over the signs between Senator John DeFrancisco and Andrew Cuomo. I'm going to post the NewsChannel 9 Facebook post (https://www.facebook.com/NewsChannel9/posts/10156057141145351) too because of the comments on it.
"I <3 NY" "I <3 NY" "I <3" ok forget this
From Syracuse.com: Report: 'I Love New York' signs to be removed from Thruway next month (http://www.syracuse.com/state/index.ssf/2018/03/i_love_new_york_signs_removal_thruway.html)
Cuomo signs are still up, ugly and worthless as ever. Any word when they are coming down. Was supposed to be April. I assumed weather delayed this.
None have come down on Long Island so far that I have noticed.
Not sure how I feel about this
QuoteThe state Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration reached agreement Friday on an unspecified future modification of state promotional signs on the Thruway and other highways that violate federal sign regulations.
A spokesman for the administration of Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said the agreement came in time to meet a Sunday deadline set by the FHA, which was prepared to reduce New York's highway aid by $14 million as a penalty for the "I Love New York," "Taste of New York" and "Pathways Through History" signs.
As far back as 2011, the federal agency told the DOT and the Thruway Authority that the signs were too big and contained too much information, allegedly creating a dangerous distraction for drivers.
https://buffalonews.com/2018/09/29/i-love-ny-signs-to-be-modified-as-state-avoids-federal-fine/
Quote from: Buffaboy on September 29, 2018, 11:03:41 AM
Not sure how I feel about this
QuoteThe state Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration reached agreement Friday on an unspecified future modification of state promotional signs on the Thruway and other highways that violate federal sign regulations.
A spokesman for the administration of Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said the agreement came in time to meet a Sunday deadline set by the FHA, which was prepared to reduce New York's highway aid by $14 million as a penalty for the "I Love New York," "Taste of New York" and "Pathways Through History" signs.
As far back as 2011, the federal agency told the DOT and the Thruway Authority that the signs were too big and contained too much information, allegedly creating a dangerous distraction for drivers.
https://buffalonews.com/2018/09/29/i-love-ny-signs-to-be-modified-as-state-avoids-federal-fine/
It's BS, some of these signs are at interchanges, there's too much distraction. Look at I-95 SB at I-287. Too many signs there.
This tells us states can do anything and the FHWA has no balls.
This may be a typical example of a government agency giving the appearance of addressing an issue, while not really addressing it.
Quote from: SignBridge on September 30, 2018, 08:35:07 PM
This may be a typical example of a government agency giving the appearance of addressing an issue, while not really addressing it.
Going down to a single sign instead of a long booklet may actually be an improvement.
My view hasn't changed. This was overly restrictive and anal-rententive on the part of FHWA. If a state wants to promote itself along its highways, the FHWA should butt out -- especially if it's a road like the Thruway that isn't federally funded. (And yes, I know, the signs were on other roads as well as the Thruway).
As for the claim that the signs are distracting -- anyone who's dangerously distracted by them is too stupid to be driving.
I'm glad that the compromise that's been reached appears to let the signs stay up.
Quote from: SignBridge on September 30, 2018, 08:35:07 PM
This may be a typical example of a government agency giving the appearance of addressing an issue, while not really addressing it.
If so, apparently the FHWA fell for it (assuming the agency needing to do the addressing was NYSDOT.)
Well both government agencies probably drink the same Kool-Aid. As long as they can show on paper that they addressed an issue, it doesn't really matter to them, that whatever they did may not actually fix the problem. It's an old game that is played by many government agencies everywhere.
PRONOUN IMPORTANT INTERNAL ORGAN STATE ABBREVIATION eat our cheese
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1735/41850853255_65196d25e4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26LdyBr)
They're a bit unsightly (why not just one blue sign per major city?) but I really don't see the big deal. There's already websites for road construction, traffic, toll information, and other travel things. It's no more unsightly than a billboard, which is even larger.
There's almost nothing to visually distract you along most of the Thruway, anyhow.
Path through history...is that a reference to the train downstate?
Quote from: jakeroot on October 01, 2018, 11:01:06 PM
Path through history...is that a reference to the train downstate?
Nope. It's just general history stuff.
It hinged more on the listing of the app and website on a highway sign, and the use of a script font.
Quote from: formulanone on October 01, 2018, 10:26:20 PM
PRONOUN IMPORTANT INTERNAL ORGAN STATE ABBREVIATION eat our cheese
They're a bit unsightly (why not just one blue sign per major city?) but I really don't see the big deal. There's already websites for road construction, traffic, toll information, and other travel things. It's no more unsightly than a billboard, which is even larger.
There's almost nothing to visually distract you along most of the Thruway, anyhow.
When the signs did come up, my main complaint was that it was done VERY inefficiently. Replacement due to bad colors, crews doing installation on weekends, extreme rush.
And to add insult to injury - I did check out the app at some point. As useless as it gets. Maybe it improved, but my humble opinion is that entire thing was not aimed at promoting tourism or anything like that. Single person ego, thats it.
Quote from: kalvado on October 02, 2018, 08:16:09 AM
Quote from: formulanone on October 01, 2018, 10:26:20 PM
PRONOUN IMPORTANT INTERNAL ORGAN STATE ABBREVIATION eat our cheese
They're a bit unsightly (why not just one blue sign per major city?) but I really don't see the big deal. There's already websites for road construction, traffic, toll information, and other travel things. It's no more unsightly than a billboard, which is even larger.
There's almost nothing to visually distract you along most of the Thruway, anyhow.
When the signs did come up, my main complaint was that it was done VERY inefficiently. Replacement due to bad colors, crews doing installation on weekends, extreme rush.
And to add insult to injury - I did check out the app at some point. As useless as it gets. Maybe it improved, but my humble opinion is that entire thing was not aimed at promoting tourism or anything like that. Single person ego, thats it.
I didn't realize there were that many of them until I'd spent a week between Buffalo and Utica. I can understand mounting a few by some of New York's most-travelled borders, and then rest go up over time or as re-signing projects warrant. Just seems weird that some sudden major effort went into something like this, rather than a gradual introduction.
Seemed like a good idea, just like the blue services / hotels / attractions signs, but taken to excess.
Quote from: webny99 on October 02, 2018, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 01, 2018, 11:01:06 PM
Path through history...is that a reference to the train downstate?
Or the Erie Canal? Not sure.
I believe it's just the general idea of taking a trip through/to the state's various historic sites and attractions.
On another note, I was a bit surprised to actually see some of these signs deployed at a NYC subway station (42nd St—Bryant Park, I believe).
The Cuomo signs on the Thruway eastbound between 25A and 25 were being modified/removed this morning when I drove past.
The first picture is the new version of the big sign. The second is the crew that was just finishing taking up the last of the sequence of smaller signs that followed.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teresco.org%2F%7Eterescoj%2Fcuomosigns%2Fnewcuomo.jpg&hash=537fbfb642c2326eb11a68ed177c69c41bc60c5e)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teresco.org%2F%7Eterescoj%2Fcuomosigns%2Ftakingdown.jpg&hash=8e78a1b13a04357fe2810ae9e5bc594c71338e44)
Quote from: Jim on November 09, 2018, 10:08:07 AM
The Cuomo signs on the Thruway eastbound between 25A and 25 were being modified/removed this morning when I drove past.
The first picture is the new version of the big sign. The second is the crew that was just finishing taking up the last of the sequence of smaller signs that followed.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teresco.org%2F%7Eterescoj%2Fcuomosigns%2Fnewcuomo.jpg&hash=537fbfb642c2326eb11a68ed177c69c41bc60c5e)
Still a pointless sign.
Quote from: roadman on November 09, 2018, 10:27:23 AM
Still a pointless sign.
Even more pointless than before. Previous ones relayed "download 'I love NY' app" - which makes some sense, even if blatnatly incompliant with regulations..
The new version seems like a larger, graphical version of what our neighbors to the north post (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.4984765,-68.5153421,3a,15.7y,322.26h,88.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjdBvYFpofx-VBV00gSWEsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), albeit without the phone number.
Somehow they made it look worse.
Good job.
Quote from: vdeane on November 09, 2018, 01:00:27 PM
The new version seems like a larger, graphical version of what our neighbors to the north post (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.4984765,-68.5153421,3a,15.7y,322.26h,88.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjdBvYFpofx-VBV00gSWEsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), albeit without the phone number.
Problem is that you need to provide an easy way to look up information (web address and phone are half way there, driver cannot write down those anyway) and still meet FHWA standards. Without such info signs quickly become totally meaningless. Or it has to be The Destination, so that no further information is required to look it up.
Niagara Falls Region. Anything to add?
If there is such an urge to relay tourist info to those passing by, then it should be done where people have a minute to digest it - and hopefully look it up.
That's what visitors centers are for.
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 09, 2018, 03:21:32 PM
That's what visitors centers are for.
Visitor centers are for those who is already on lookup for attractions. Signs are for passers by.
On the other hand, I doubt many long haul trips can be suddenly modified to go to an apple farm just 20 miles off the highway...
Quote from: kalvado on November 09, 2018, 01:16:54 PM
If there is such an urge to relay tourist info to those passing by, then it should be done where people have a minute to digest it - and hopefully look it up.
All the other states seem to manage to accomplish this fine with standard brown and blue HCR/Attractions signs. You don't need all that extraneous special branding that NY State did with the Cuomo signs.
Quote from: roadman on November 09, 2018, 11:27:26 PM
Quote from: kalvado on November 09, 2018, 01:16:54 PM
If there is such an urge to relay tourist info to those passing by, then it should be done where people have a minute to digest it - and hopefully look it up.
All the other states seem to manage to accomplish this fine with standard brown and blue HCR/Attractions signs. You don't need all that extraneous special branding that NY State did with the Cuomo signs.
You don't need it, but it's better. :D
Whatever. I wasn't a fan of the signs, but I would rather not waste more money taking them all down.
I mean, we are federally mandated to, unless we give up more money to the Feds.
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on November 14, 2018, 07:56:28 PM
Whatever. I wasn't a fan of the signs, but I would rather not waste more money taking them all down.
Signs are being modified - and I doubt that is much lower cost than taking them down. I mean, you still have to dispatch a truck, provide safety area for crews to work, provide lift to reach the signs, pay for patches to be applied...
Quote from: Rothman on November 14, 2018, 03:32:08 PM
Quote from: roadman on November 09, 2018, 11:27:26 PM
Quote from: kalvado on November 09, 2018, 01:16:54 PM
If there is such an urge to relay tourist info to those passing by, then it should be done where people have a minute to digest it - and hopefully look it up.
All the other states seem to manage to accomplish this fine with standard brown and blue HCR/Attractions signs. You don't need all that extraneous special branding that NY State did with the Cuomo signs.
You don't need it, but it's better. :D
With respect, the special branding is simply extraneous information. Does a driver really need to know that a restaurant is part of a special "Taste NY" branding?
Quote from: roadman on November 15, 2018, 10:30:34 AM
With respect, the special branding is simply extraneous information. Does a driver really need to know that a restaurant is part of a special "Taste NY" branding?
Absolutely, a regular driver can eat just one lunch in non-branded restaurant - but should be able to consume at least 3 in Taste NY ones!
Well, the purpose of Taste NY isn't to feed travelers - it's to spread awareness of local small businesses by selling their products. I've heard of at least one business that saw a TON of online orders from new locations they never got orders from before after they started selling in Taste NY.
(personal opinion)
Here's a fix on Long Island... looks like garbage with the wrong color "bandaid" stuck on the sign. *not my photo, found on fb tonight*(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181116/c4c78ed62e95360b39a635c40af470d1.jpg)
iPhone
Quote from: Mccojm on November 15, 2018, 08:53:46 PM
Here's a fix on Long Island... looks like garbage with the wrong color "bandaid" stuck on the sign. *not my photo, found on fb tonight*(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181116/c4c78ed62e95360b39a635c40af470d1.jpg)
iPhone
Given the history of these signs, expect an emergency rework order next week. Since Cuomo will be on the road doing roadside assistance tomorrow next to the sign, he would likely see that in evening news.
I always found the idea of region-specific signs to be particularly useful on parkways and scenic roads. But Interstate 86, which connects many scenic regions like the Finger Lakes and the Catskills? It has utility, traffic, and visibility. While perhaps the implementation wasn't on point and left a lot to be desired, I can see rebranded region-specific signs being implemented in the style of state-line signs. "Welcome to the Catskill Mountains" in a script font, with a scenic backdrop, would be an awesome gateway. There is precedence - National Forest gateway signs on interstates are/were in a script font.
I do have a problem with the attraction signs in general - they are illegible, much some other service signs. Take for example this aviation attractions sign (https://goo.gl/maps/zRiFPwh8QhL2). It's divided into three invisible columns, and the attractions themselves are not legible at 65 MPH. These would be better at the rebranded regional welcome centers that New York has implemented.
Quote from: empirestate on October 08, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
I believe it's just the general idea of taking a trip through/to the state's various historic sites and attractions.
On another note, I was a bit surprised to actually see some of these signs deployed at a NYC subway station (42nd St—Bryant Park, I believe).
I can't imagine why, since there's enough history within the vicinity. That's not really the only subway station in the city where you'll find such signs:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Concourse_HD_Path_Through_History_@_167th_Street-Jerome.JPG
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flushing-Main_Street;_IRT_Flushing;_Path_Through_History.jpg
New link:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/state-says-i-love-ny-signs-have-been-removed-by-deadline/ar-BBPWUFA?ocid=spartandhp
Meanwhile on the Thruway, it appears that even the large ones near Utica have been removed rather than overlayed with "Mohawk Valley Region". The ones near Waterloo have a different region depending on which direction you're going - EB is "Central NY Region" while WB is "Finger Lakes Region".
Here is NYSDOT/ NYSTA Request to the FHWA for experimentation the "Cuomo Signs" dated 9/18/18. There's a list of exact GPS coordinates where the signs will be and the program is suppose to conducted over two years and NYSDOT/ NYSTA agrees to remove signs that do not comply with the provisions of the MUTCD within 3 months following the end of the 2 year experiment time frame and at any time the participating agencies determine that hazards are both directly and indirectly tied to the experiment.
The ten region names that will be used are Capital Region, Central New York, Finger Lakes Region, Long Island, Mid-Hudson, Mohawk Valley, New York City, North County, Southern Tier, and Western New York. These are based off Gov. Cuomo ten regional economic development councils created in 2011.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12qaFH3cSgqhQt8KjXVpI95ei3YQ5BOWR/view (https://drive.google.com/file/d/12qaFH3cSgqhQt8KjXVpI95ei3YQ5BOWR/view)
Quote from: vdeane on November 22, 2018, 11:13:46 AM
Meanwhile on the Thruway, it appears that even the large ones near Utica have been removed rather than overlayed with "Mohawk Valley Region". The ones near Waterloo have a different region depending on which direction you're going - EB is "Central NY Region" while WB is "Finger Lakes Region".
Seems about right, as that is a rough approximation of where one transitions from the Finger Lakes into Central NY.
Quote from: webny99 on November 26, 2018, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 22, 2018, 11:13:46 AM
Meanwhile on the Thruway, it appears that even the large ones near Utica have been removed rather than overlayed with "Mohawk Valley Region". The ones near Waterloo have a different region depending on which direction you're going - EB is "Central NY Region" while WB is "Finger Lakes Region".
Seems about right, as that is a rough approximation of where one transitions from the Finger Lakes into Central NY.
Well, it seems odd because I presume that they were originally put up for people taking vacations in the Finger Lakes.
The ones on 95 at the CT-NY state line appear to be gone. They are doing some other construction there at the 287 ramps, and it looks like they are replacing the multiple signs with just one big one.
I've made my opinions known earlier about the usefulness of such signs, as gateways to a particular area, and my lack of enthusiasm for the "Attractions" service signs, but these Cuomo v. 2 signs are just ugly. I'd love to have seen the script font used on the National Forest signs used instead.
On the Hutch, in the Bronx, they have one of the new big all in one signs, but the lower sign says "Mid-Hudson Region" instead of "New York City Region" that you find on the one just outside of LGA. Da fuq is NY doing with these signs? Goodness, you know what, just get rid of all of them at this point.
Quote from: connroadgeek on December 14, 2018, 09:09:29 PM
On the Hutch, in the Bronx, they have one of the new big all in one signs, but the lower sign says "Mid-Hudson Region" instead of "New York City Region" that you find on the one just outside of LGA. Da fuq is NY doing with these signs? Goodness, you know what, just get rid of all of them at this point.
Nope, please enjoy seeing your taxes at work!
I see the smaller signs along the Thruway have been relocated to nearby Service Areas, where they are installed side-by-side. Looks like a barricade.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jpnearl.com%2Fupstatenyroads.com%2Fbackup%2Fpublic%2FIMG_2422.jpg&hash=8b7beb0ae1705d3ac9585f49b70b22682838f502)
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 15, 2018, 10:29:53 AM
I see the smaller signs along the Thruway have been relocated to nearby Service Areas, where they are installed side-by-side. Looks like a barricade.
It looks like shitty, state-sponsored advertising. I fail to see what those three different signs tell me that a single one could not.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 15, 2018, 11:22:50 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 15, 2018, 10:29:53 AM
I see the smaller signs along the Thruway have been relocated to nearby Service Areas, where they are installed side-by-side. Looks like a barricade.
It looks like shitty, state-sponsored advertising. I fail to see what those three different signs tell me that a single one could not.
IMHO this is just to convince Cuomo that FHWA didn't score a clear win. A sign at the rest area can include a web address, QR code, map, more information in a smaller font and what not. But reduce (as mandated by FHWA) and reuse - instead of recycle.
Quote from: kalvado on December 15, 2018, 12:40:08 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 15, 2018, 11:22:50 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 15, 2018, 10:29:53 AM
I see the smaller signs along the Thruway have been relocated to nearby Service Areas, where they are installed side-by-side. Looks like a barricade.
It looks like shitty, state-sponsored advertising. I fail to see what those three different signs tell me that a single one could not.
IMHO this is just to convince Cuomo that FHWA didn't score a clear win. A sign at the rest area can include a web address, QR code, map, more information in a smaller font and what not. But reduce (as mandated by FHWA) and reuse - instead of recycle.
And TBH, I'm so glad that the FHWA clamped down on this as quickly and intensely as they did. This kind of thing just simply
does not belong on the roads. Period.
Of course, I still think they're allowing too much. Even one sign (on the actual highway) with this nonsense is too much.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 15, 2018, 12:52:21 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 15, 2018, 12:40:08 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 15, 2018, 11:22:50 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 15, 2018, 10:29:53 AM
I see the smaller signs along the Thruway have been relocated to nearby Service Areas, where they are installed side-by-side. Looks like a barricade.
It looks like shitty, state-sponsored advertising. I fail to see what those three different signs tell me that a single one could not.
IMHO this is just to convince Cuomo that FHWA didn't score a clear win. A sign at the rest area can include a web address, QR code, map, more information in a smaller font and what not. But reduce (as mandated by FHWA) and reuse - instead of recycle.
And TBH, I'm so glad that the FHWA clamped down on this as quickly and intensely as they did. This kind of thing just simply does not belong on the roads. Period.
Of course, I still think they're allowing too much. Even one sign (on the actual highway) with this nonsense is too much.
Frankly speaking, it wasn't
that bad. And there is some sense in the idea behind - an app which concentrates tourism information and directing people towards that with the message "we got more than you think".
Now it came to the point where app is a junky one, signs cannot relay proper information at highway speed, and implementation - with signs being installed on weekends with crew overtime pay, replaced due to color mismatch, and ultimately patched and removed...
I'm against the whole principle, in general. Road signs are not a place to put advertisements. I don't care how much they've streamlined the message, or who curated it.
Honestly, this thread kind of calls into question logo signs in general to me. I'm more willing to accept those, because their intention is to be a navigational aid, not a bare advertisement, but...
The app is terrible. It's not curated, contains junk / outdated information, and is buggy. A single panel sign would have sufficed, but now it seems that the rest areas or plazas are being junked with more clutter.
Instead of going through all of this, they should have used more effective branding methods - like the new I Love New York cut-out signs being installed at the gateway rest areas (e.g. I-81 northbound welcome center).
Quote from: D-Dey65 on November 21, 2018, 11:56:05 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 08, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
I believe it's just the general idea of taking a trip through/to the state's various historic sites and attractions.
On another note, I was a bit surprised to actually see some of these signs deployed at a NYC subway station (42nd St—Bryant Park, I believe).
I can't imagine why, since there's enough history within the vicinity.
Oh, simply because we've been discussing them almost exclusively in the context of roads.
Quote from: seicer on December 15, 2018, 01:56:11 PM
The app is terrible. It's not curated, contains junk / outdated information, and is buggy. A single panel sign would have sufficed, but now it seems that the rest areas or plazas are being junked with more clutter.
Instead of going through all of this, they should have used more effective branding methods - like the new I Love New York cut-out signs being installed at the gateway rest areas (e.g. I-81 northbound welcome center).
Do you have an example of this cutoff sign? Long Island has some signs on wb I-495 for the welcome center that uses enlarged lighthouse graphic from parkway signs, it looks pretty nice breaking up a boring giant blue panel.
I guess it's not really a sign but similar to the very popular Cleveland script signs installed at various skyline vantage points: https://www.alamy.com/corbettsville-ny-may-14-2018-i-love-ny-sign-at-the-new-york-southern-tier-welcome-center-image207622795.html
The Southern Tier Welcome Center on I-81 northbound is very nice. This is where the branding really shines. And while I drove by a bunch of the remaining Cuomo signs today, they really don't offer any value and I'm kind of walking back some of my earlier support.
Yesterday afternoon, I was on the Thruway in both directions between exits 34A and 33. I saw the new version of the Cuomo Signs, and I think they looked much better. The "motherboard" signs had the region name patched over the app name and URL on the bottom of the signs. I think the most noticeable improvement was not having a string of bright blue signs close together.
Honestly, what's the difference between the Cuomo signs, and these, which used to be all over Oklahoma?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2009_OKC_Day_2%2FImages%2F120.jpg&hash=74280bb832d98e2a580d76eb5f5a4dce0ac565e5)
Quote from: hbelkins on May 17, 2019, 12:14:56 PM
Honestly, what's the difference between the Cuomo signs, and these, which used to be all over Oklahoma?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2009_OKC_Day_2%2FImages%2F120.jpg&hash=74280bb832d98e2a580d76eb5f5a4dce0ac565e5)
The Cuomo signs are advertising a website and an app.
Quote from: 1 on May 17, 2019, 12:17:02 PM
The Cuomo signs are advertising a website and an app.
They aren't now. That portion has been replaced with the name of the economic development region the sign is in, and the little signs are gone*.
*Actually they were relocated to service areas, rest areas, and whatnot, but they're no longer on the highways.