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Quebec's Highways

Started by Stojko, February 04, 2010, 06:56:42 PM

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english si

Quote from: webfil on June 08, 2015, 08:54:06 PMNeither are french ... "Beaconsfield"
Given it would be named after Benjamin Disraeli (given the title 'The Earl of Beaconsfield'), it surely is the French. However, what would the French be if it was named after the Bucks* town? Some sort of corruption of "compensation dans les hêtres"? Or a false entymology and "le champ de balise"?

*ie the county of Bouquinquan (OK, that's an obsolete exonym that strangely exists for such a low-importance town, when there's but a handful of French exonyms in the UK).


dcbjms

#201
Quote from: english si on June 09, 2015, 08:25:08 AM
Quote from: webfil on June 08, 2015, 08:54:06 PMNeither are french ... "Beaconsfield"
Given it would be named after Benjamin Disraeli (given the title 'The Earl of Beaconsfield'), it surely is the French.

Not the only one in this case, as there is a Disraeli located in the Chaudière-Appalaches region.

Quote from: english si on June 09, 2015, 08:25:08 AMHowever, what would the French be if it was named after the Bucks* town? Some sort of corruption of "compensation dans les hêtres"? Or a false entymology and "le champ de balise"?

Most likely, if the town came before Disraeli was given the title, either it would be left alone or a saint's name would have been appended to the name to make it work.  Both are quite common out in the RoQ (the Rest of Québec outside Montréal and Québec City) - an example of the second strategy, for example, would be the town of Saint-Étienne-de-Bolton.  Fortunately, as far as I'm aware, Quebec does not have any placenames containing, nor for that matter does it have any need for, the words "sur" and "sous", so the respective abbreviations "s/" and "s/s", used in France, are not needed on signage.

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on June 09, 2015, 07:58:59 AM
Quote from: oscar on June 08, 2015, 11:09:50 PM
Any plans to fill the gap between Beauceville and Saint-Georges earlier, as a two-lane Autoroute? The construction photo you posted (thanks!) indicates no such intention, with both roadways similarly far from completion.

It looks to me like A-73 will open as a four lane road, and not in stages as a super-2.  I think construction is supposed to be done by the end of construction season this year.  It looked to me like most of the structural work had been completed for the extension, but a lot of rock work and grading seems to remain.  Construction is progressing well on the twinning work near Sainte-Marie.  I quite like the area to the south of Quebec City.  Some of the roads are pretty entertaining to drive.

I took some photos of the A-85 extension towards Nouveau-Brunswick, and A-20 east towards Trois Pistoles as well, but I haven't had a chance to do anything with the photos yet.  The A-85 photos that I have, again, aren't really all that different than what you posted photos of last year.  A-85 is quite a road though, I'm looking forward to driving the highway again once the northbound lanes have been completed through Degelis.

I don't know if anybody knows this, but a section of R-112 has been permanently closed for the past couple of years west of Thetford Mines.  I don't know the full story behind the closure, but from what I gathered from the French article I (attempted to) read, the mining operations have undermined the stability of the existing highway.  A new permanent realigned road is currently under construction.

Yup, it had closed due to the mining operations who had undermined the stability of the highway and it collapsed a bit later
http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/regions/201207/17/01-4556495-deux-sections-de-la-112-glissent-au-fond-de-la-mine.php
The new gap should open this Fall.

As for A-73, there some photos I saw on this French site https://sites.google.com/site/autoroute73/

Dr Frankenstein

#203
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on June 09, 2015, 07:58:59 AMI don't know if anybody knows this, but a section of R-112 has been permanently closed for the past couple of years west of Thetford Mines.  I don't know the full story behind the closure, but from what I gathered from the French article I (attempted to) read, the mining operations have undermined the stability of the existing highway.
Pretty much. In a nutshell, the pavement of the original R-112 and a realignment attempt are both currently located, in crumbs, somewhere at the bottom of the adjacent asbestos mine.

http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/regions/201207/17/01-4556495-deux-sections-de-la-112-glissent-au-fond-de-la-mine.php

This page (in French) covers up the ongoing work to relocate R-112 for a second time.
https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/infrastructures-transport/p-routiers-100M/chaudiere-appalaches/Pages/relocalisation-rte-112.aspx

On shields:
My understanding is that in Québec, all shields on BGSes have to use Series E(M) for legibility (basically, a stricter version of what NYSDOT does with their state route shields). However, in several cases, U.S. and Interstate shields do violate that rule and are posted with Series D numerals. Notably, older signs with U.S. 201 on A-20 and service lanes near A-73, A-73 itself just past the bridge out of Québec City, I-89 shields on A-10's service lanes and I-87 shields on A-30's mainline in the eastbound direction. Then, R-133 SB incorrectly uses Series EM on I-89 reassurance signs. As you can see, adherence to that rule is somewhat inconsistent.

Now, to clear up the language issue.

The initial goal of the Charter of the French Language (or Bill 101) was to force businesses to function in French (serve in French, use signage, displays and menus in French, and conduct internal business in French), as well as to get people born in Québec to go to school in French. This was in a time when Quebec was seeing a rapid transition to English in commercial activities and other aspects. Montreal was the largest city in Canada and was getting a steady influx of Anglophones from the rest of Canada who didn't bother to learn the local language, with those same people opening businesses here and only hiring English speakers and, worse, serving only in English. Some major retail outlets in Montreal would only display and serve in English, and fail (or even outright refuse) to help locals speaking the majority language. The whole situation was a source of great frustration for Montrealers as well as many other Quebecers.

So that's the context. This forum is not the place to debate the current or former challenges, goals, applications, relevance and acceptability of Bill 101; I only provided the above paragraph as basis for understanding how and why it happened.

While I haven't read the Charter in its entirety, my understanding is that, in terms of signage, its primary goal is towards commercial signage. I cannot say if it applies to highway signage at all, and I regard the MTQ's recent amendments to its few standard bilingual sign design patterns as futile at best. (The English text on the new Radar Detectors Prohibited and Truck Speed Limiters Required signs is illegible at any decent speed.)

"U.S.A." is a place name and can probably appear in any language and still be OK. While Ontario and New Brunswick do use the French form "É.-U.", it's on bilingual signage in conjunction with the English form. Since Québec does not use bilingual signage (partly a result of Bill 101 declaring French as the province's only official language), using only É.-U. would fail at directing much of the target audience of that sign legend, and U.S.A. is widely understood by French Canadians anyway.

"Stop" is defined in French dictionaries (mostly, I assume, due to telegraphy and road signage) and, because of that, is considered French when used on a Stop sign. "Arrêt" or "Stop" may be used at the discretion of the jurisdiction that erects the sign (and indeed, a handful of cities use "Stop"; Dorval, Montreal West, Granby, Sutton, just to name a few...) and the MTQ has sign patterns for both. "Arrêt/Stop" cannot be used because the "Stop" becomes either redundant or English...

Kentucky Fried Chicken did rename itself into Poulet Frit Kentucky (at least, partly) in order to comply with Bill 101. Now that it's KFC and PFK, it might actually be legal to just use the English acronym but hey, we're used to the French name now, and IANAL. Canadian Tire, East Side Marios, Dairy Queen and such are illegal, but I guess that they can cover the legal costs that come with not changing their name. Note, adding a French word to the name (e.g., Magasins Canadian Tire, Restaurant East Side Marios, etc.) is enough to make it "French". Businesses (and especially chains) with English names do attract some protestors, though, and I think it's ridiculous.

To conclude, store employees who refuse to help customers (especially tourists!) in English for ideological reasons are rarer than they're made out to be, and are generally regarded as idiots. Legally, the Charter requires French, but does not prohibit other languages.

Quote from: dcbjms on June 09, 2015, 08:54:51 AMMost likely, if the town came before Disraeli was given the title, either it would be left alone or a saint's name would have been appended to the name to make it work.  Both are quite common out in the RoQ (the Rest of Québec outside Montréal and Québec City) - an example of the second strategy, for example, would be the town of Saint-Étienne-de-Bolton.  Fortunately, as far as I'm aware, Quebec does not have any placenames containing, nor for that matter does it have any need for, the words "sur" and "sous", so the respective abbreviations "s/" and "s/s", used in France, are not needed on signage.
One of Montreal's most important satellite cities is Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, and there's several other uses of "sur" in town and city names, but interestingly enough, not a single use of "sous". Québec, however, does not go to the same lengths as France to abbreviate place names on signage, and does not use "s/" and "s/s".

SP Cook

Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on June 09, 2015, 10:24:53 AM


Kentucky Fried Chicken did rename itself into Poulet Frit Kentucky (at least, partly) in order to comply with Bill 101. Now that it's KFC and PFK, it might actually be legal to just use the English acronym but hey, we're used to the French name now, and IANAL. Canadian Tire, East Side Marios, Dairy Queen and such are illegal, but I guess that they can cover the legal costs that come with not changing their name. Note, adding a French word to the name (e.g., Magasins Canadian Tire, Restaurant East Side Marios, etc.) is enough to make it "French". Businesses (and especially chains) with English names do attract some protestors, though, and I think it's ridiculous.


As I understand it, brand names are legal in any language.  Thus Dairy Queen if fine, as is McDonald's or Wendy's (even though 's is not used to show possession in French).  As, for that matter would an Indian or Arab or any name be OK.    The generic part of the name must be in French.

As to Kentucky Fried Chicken, or KFC, (which is called that everywhere else, including France) the authorities said "Kentucky" was brand name, and "fried chicken" was the generic product.  So KFC became PFK.  Later a company in a similar situation won an appeal, and KFC could go back to being KFC, but thought it was good business to stay PFK and does so.


dcbjms

Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on June 09, 2015, 10:24:53 AM
On shields:
My understanding is that in Québec, all shields on BGSes have to use Series E(M) for legibility (basically, a stricter version of what NYSDOT does with their state route shields). However, in several cases, U.S. and Interstate shields do violate that rule and are posted with Series D numerals. Notably, older signs with U.S. 201 on A-20 and service lanes near A-73, A-73 itself just past the bridge out of Québec City, I-89 shields on A-10's service lanes and I-87 shields on A-30's mainline in the eastbound direction. Then, R-133 SB incorrectly uses Series EM on I-89 reassurance signs. As you can see, adherence to that rule is somewhat inconsistent.

Probably it's because on the BGSes the MTQ uses that squished-out version of the route shields which makes it easier to use Series E(M).  Otherwise, at least for the free-standing shields, IIRC it's Series E(M) if single-digit, Series D for two-digit, and Series B for three-digit.

Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on June 09, 2015, 10:24:53 AM
Quote from: dcbjms on June 09, 2015, 08:54:51 AMMost likely, if the town came before Disraeli was given the title, either it would be left alone or a saint's name would have been appended to the name to make it work.  Both are quite common out in the RoQ (the Rest of Québec outside Montréal and Québec City) - an example of the second strategy, for example, would be the town of Saint-Étienne-de-Bolton.  Fortunately, as far as I'm aware, Quebec does not have any placenames containing, nor for that matter does it have any need for, the words "sur" and "sous", so the respective abbreviations "s/" and "s/s", used in France, are not needed on signage.
One of Montreal's most important satellite cities is Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, and there's several other uses of "sur" in town and city names, but interestingly enough, not a single use of "sous". Québec, however, does not go to the same lengths as France to abbreviate place names on signage, and does not use "s/" and "s/s".

I knew I was forgetting something.  :pan:  Brain fart indeed.

Dr Frankenstein

Quote from: dcbjms on June 09, 2015, 02:40:08 PMOtherwise, at least for the free-standing shields, IIRC it's Series E(M) if single-digit, Series D for two-digit, and Series B for three-digit.
This is true for autoroute shields, but national route shields were more or less recently changed to always use Series D.

webfil

1 G$ funding was announced this afternoon for the completion A-85's last 40 kilometres.

I believe that would make it the first ever completed trunk autoroute in Québec, upon opening.

Alps

Quote from: webfil on July 13, 2015, 09:37:47 PM
1 G$ funding was announced this afternoon for the completion A-85's last 40 kilometres.

I believe that would make it the first ever completed trunk autoroute in Québec, upon opening.
If by completed you mean "incapable of being extended further" yes... unless you bridge the St. Lawrence.

SignGeek101

Quote from: webfil on July 13, 2015, 09:37:47 PM
1 G$ funding was announced this afternoon for the completion A-85's last 40 kilometres.

I believe that would make it the first ever completed trunk autoroute in Québec, upon opening.

This project has gone too long now. It's good that it will be complete in the next few years, hopefully.

iBallasticwolf2

Quote from: Alps on July 14, 2015, 11:07:50 PM
Quote from: webfil on July 13, 2015, 09:37:47 PM
1 G$ funding was announced this afternoon for the completion A-85's last 40 kilometres.

I believe that would make it the first ever completed trunk autoroute in Québec, upon opening.
If by completed you mean "incapable of being extended further" yes... unless you bridge the St. Lawrence.

If your willing to bridge the St. Lawrence or use a large ferry then you could extend A-85 to A-70 and maybe replace A-70.
Only two things are infinite in this world, stupidity, and I-75 construction

SignGeek101

Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 14, 2015, 11:34:58 PM
Quote from: Alps on July 14, 2015, 11:07:50 PM
Quote from: webfil on July 13, 2015, 09:37:47 PM
1 G$ funding was announced this afternoon for the completion A-85's last 40 kilometres.

I believe that would make it the first ever completed trunk autoroute in Québec, upon opening.
If by completed you mean "incapable of being extended further" yes... unless you bridge the St. Lawrence.

If your willing to bridge the St. Lawrence or use a large ferry then you could extend A-85 to A-70 and maybe replace A-70.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe extend A-70 to the St. Lawrence, then end A-85 on the other side and have the ferry. A bridge wouldn't work; the river is 15 km wide at this point.

ghYHZ

Already a ferry at Riviere du Loup....

http://traverserdl.com/english/home/

Just adjust the end points slightly.

webfil

Quote from: Alps on July 14, 2015, 11:07:50 PM
Quote from: webfil on July 13, 2015, 09:37:47 PM
1 G$ funding was announced this afternoon for the completion A-85's last 40 kilometres.

I believe that would make it the first ever completed trunk autoroute in Québec, upon opening.
If by completed you mean "incapable of being extended further" yes... unless you bridge the St. Lawrence.

Unless the North American urban hierarchy epicenter swings towards Halifax at some point where Saguenay/Maritimes economic movements would justify the building of a multi-thousand-million-dollar bridge over sea-condition Gulf of Saint Lawrence to replace a seasonnal, 100-car capacity ferry, that discussion pertains to "Fictional Highways".

The 1971 ministère de la Voirie master plan did feature some wacky, eccentric autoroute extensions, but not that one. And I was quoting that plan when referring to the first completed trunk autoroute.

iBallasticwolf2

Quote from: webfil on July 20, 2015, 08:42:27 PM
The 1971 ministère de la Voirie master plan did feature some wacky, eccentric autoroute extensions, but not that one. And I was quoting that plan when referring to the first completed trunk autoroute.


A map of this whole plan would be very interesting. Were they trying to make a fully connected Autoroute system without gaps? If so then that would be a lot of autoroute miles with traffic counts under 5000.
Only two things are infinite in this world, stupidity, and I-75 construction

webfil

#215
Copyright issues prevent me from reproducing the whole maps here.


Yes, that plan's mesh is tight and most of southern Québec is covered with a grid of expressways that would defy nowadays common sense, such as A-18 linking Saint-Albert to Plessisville or a freeway bridge between Lanoraie and Tracy. But nothing as alanlandish as a bridge between Rivière-du-Loup and Saint-Siméon.

Those were the times when growth expectations were sky-rocketing, and the province's population estimates for 2000 were above 10 000 000 people, with over 6 M people in the Greater Montréal. The 8 M threshold was reached in 2011 for the province, and Montréal reached 4 M in 2014.

iBallasticwolf2

Quote from: webfil on July 20, 2015, 10:57:34 PM
Copyright issues prevent me from reproducing the whole maps here.


Yes, that plan's mesh is tight and most of southern Québec is covered with a grid of expressways that would defy nowadays common sense, such as A-18 linking Saint-Albert to Plessisville or a freeway bridge between Lanoraie and Tracy. But nothing as alanlandish as a bridge between Rivière-du-Loup and Saint-Siméon.

Those were the times when growth expectations were sky-rocketing, and the province's population estimates for 2000 were above 10 000 000 people, with over 6 M people in the Greater Montréal. The 8 M threshold was reached in 2011 for the province, and Montréal reached 4 M in 2014.

The plans don't look as outrageous as I expected. I was thinking along the lines of a Autoroute from Saguenay to Ontario following the Trans-Canada highway partially.
Only two things are infinite in this world, stupidity, and I-75 construction

froggie

QuoteCopyright issues prevent me from reproducing the whole maps here.

Could the maps be redrawn/recreated elsewhere then posted?  I want to say I saw something along those lines on a website in the far past (~10yrs ago), but can't find it now.

Fugazi

A-440 in Laval, Qc now has a new name: Autoroute Jean-Noël-Lavoie (now deceased first Mayor of Laval). Article in French here: http://www.courrierlaval.com/Actualites/2015-08-06/article-4238051/LA-440-devient-lAutoroute-Jean-Noel-Lavoie/1

In other Laval news, MTQ still considers plans for A-19 to be extended north from A-440 to A-640 as a non-restricted boulevard instead of a full autoroute. Article in French here: http://www.courrierlaval.com/Actualites/Societe/2015-08-06/article-4238000/Le-MTQ-etudie-toujours-l%26rsquo%3Boption-du-boulevard-urbain/1

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: Fugazi on August 07, 2015, 01:45:23 PM

In other Laval news, MTQ still considers plans for A-19 to be extended north from A-440 to A-640 as a non-restricted boulevard instead of a full autoroute. Article in French here: http://www.courrierlaval.com/Actualites/Societe/2015-08-06/article-4238000/Le-MTQ-etudie-toujours-l%26rsquo%3Boption-du-boulevard-urbain/1

A very bad idea. The ROW is still there for a full autoroute, these bureaucrats are so stubborn. :banghead:

AsphaltPlanet

Some new pictures of Autoroute 20 east of Wolf River, QC.  These photos were taken on a road trip that I took back in May.  The two-lane extension of Autoroute 20 from east of Cacouna to Trois-Pistoles is scheduled to open this fall, so these photos are definitely a bit out of date:
















Full resolution, and more photos are available here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/20/Page9.htm
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

SignGeek101

Maybe the MTQ will eventually connect both ends together...

Thanks for the update.

Chris

The 3 kilometer extension of autoroute 410 to Route 108 south of Sherbrooke opened to traffic yesterday: http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/sherbrooke/201510/29/01-4915300-le-nouveau-troncon-de-la-410-en-service.php

vdeane

So when will MTQ finish A-410 to its final terminus further along QC 108?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

oscar

Quote from: vdeane on October 30, 2015, 06:43:34 PM
So when will MTQ finish A-410 to its final terminus further along QC 108?

When I drove through the construction site for the now-open A-410/QC 108 interchange, in May of this year, it looked like no work at all was being done east of the interchange.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html



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