Illinois notes

[edwaleni]

Here's a personal note that I wanted to bring up today to add to the "Illinois notes" discussion.

IDOT does not give s*** about clear zones on their roads. I drove a few different state highways in the northwest Chicago area today and I was just astounded by how little room there was on the side between the edge of pavement and the start of non-cut grass vegetation. And I'm talking about 2-lane sections where the speed limit is 45, 50, or 55. This also applies to other roads, like US-20 east of the Elgin bypass section.

After driving hundreds of miles in Wisconsin, I find this unacceptable and I see it as a real safety concern. How are you supposed to see an animal running towards the road when you have these tall grasses and weeds right up to the edge of the lane? After a deer ran into my car in Wisconsin, this is high on my list of concerns now. The weeds and tall grass, and sometimes branches too, bury signs to the point you can't even see them. Also, it just makes the roads look so unkept, which I guess is true.

These problems are also compounded by the fact that most of these roads lack any sort of paved shoulder, so there's basically no room for error if something goes wrong.

I know I rant a lot about IDOT, but man, they honestly just suck in almost every way imaginable. I miss the days WisDOT was my "home DOT", they really are one of the best out there. There's just so much wrong at the core of what IDOT does. I understand a lot of it has to do with the awful budget and the amount of mileage they have, but a lot of IDOT's problems have nothing to do with budget and everything to do with work ethic and quality checking.

<changing channels>

[Crash_It]

Here's a personal note that I wanted to bring up today to add to the "Illinois notes" discussion.

IDOT does not give s*** about clear zones on their roads. I drove a few different state highways in the northwest Chicago area today and I was just astounded by how little room there was on the side between the edge of pavement and the start of non-cut grass vegetation. And I'm talking about 2-lane sections where the speed limit is 45, 50, or 55. This also applies to other roads, like US-20 east of the Elgin bypass section.

After driving hundreds of miles in Wisconsin, I find this unacceptable and I see it as a real safety concern. How are you supposed to see an animal running towards the road when you have these tall grasses and weeds right up to the edge of the lane? After a deer ran into my car in Wisconsin, this is high on my list of concerns now. The weeds and tall grass, and sometimes branches too, bury signs to the point you can't even see them. Also, it just makes the roads look so unkept, which I guess is true.

These problems are also compounded by the fact that most of these roads lack any sort of paved shoulder, so there's basically no room for error if something goes wrong.

I know I rant a lot about IDOT, but man, they honestly just suck in almost every way imaginable. I miss the days WisDOT was my "home DOT", they really are one of the best out there. There's just so much wrong at the core of what IDOT does. I understand a lot of it has to do with the awful budget and the amount of mileage they have, but a lot of IDOT's problems have nothing to do with budget and everything to do with work ethic and quality checking.

What roads in Illinois that you've driven on that have not even an unpaved shoulder? Almost every road I've driven on within IDOT jurisdiction has one. Not to mention that IDOT is also worlds better at maintaining the pavement than WI and are also better with the light timing.

[JoePCool14]

<changing channels>

Sorry, sometimes I just have to rant a little. 

What roads in Illinois that you've driven on that have not even an unpaved shoulder? Almost every road I've driven on within IDOT jurisdiction has one. Not to mention that IDOT is also worlds better at maintaining the pavement than WI and are also better with the light timing.

I was on portions of IL-22, IL-59, IL-68, IL-72, and US-20 yesterday. The only one I can recall having a paved shoulder, wide enough to have rumble strips and then some on there, was the western end of IL-68. That was nice, and all that's required. Other short sections have shoulders, like at intersections where improvements have been made, but by and large, there was an inch or two of asphalt beyond the white line.

I completely disagree with you on pavement maintenance. Generally speaking, WisDOT is better.

Lastly, signal timing. Ok, I could probably give you that one. Most of the time, when on IDOT roads, the signals are green which is good. It's frustrating if you're on a county or local road trying to cross though. Still, there's too many signals on some roads (i.e., US-12) and not enough creative designs to eliminate some of them with things like Michigan lefts/U-turns or roundabouts.

[US20IL64]

http://i-80will.com/

Website about I-80 rebuild in 3 counties, including bridge over Des Plaines River.

Shows map of what properties may be taken for new bridge on this page: http://i-80will.com/community-impact-analysis/potential-property-displacement.html

[Plutonic Panda]

From that link:

Input was gathered from communities that could be directly or indirectly impacted by the Des Plaines River Bridge replacement and those who may experience a disproportionally high and adverse effect as a result of this improvement without additional mitigation measures

I've never understood this mentality. Doesn't better infrastructure especially in the case of one of the most important interstate corridors in the nation benefit everyone?

[Hobart]

From that link:

Input was gathered from communities that could be directly or indirectly impacted by the Des Plaines River Bridge replacement and those who may experience a disproportionally high and adverse effect as a result of this improvement without additional mitigation measures

I've never understood this mentality. Doesn't better infrastructure especially in the case of one of the most important interstate corridors in the nation benefit everyone?

This gets into an interesting bit of freeway history; when the interstate system was being built, the properties built over often belonged to certain groups of people (read: minorities), because they didn't hold as much political influence and their property was cheaper to acquire. Interstate 94 in Minneapolis cut neighborhoods in half, a disproportionate amount of those being African-American.

Although everyone technically benefits from better infrastructure, certain groups were, and might still be, forced to make significantly larger sacrifices towards getting the infrastructure than others. These groups are often marginalized; Joliet is a large enough city to need to worry about that by sheer virtue of putting a freeway through a certain part of town.

IDOT pretty much wants to "make things right", most likely to save face. I can't blame them.

Unrelated from the same website, they're putting in a jughandle at US-52. I'm kind of hyped.

[edwaleni]

From that link:

Input was gathered from communities that could be directly or indirectly impacted by the Des Plaines River Bridge replacement and those who may experience a disproportionally high and adverse effect as a result of this improvement without additional mitigation measures

I've never understood this mentality. Doesn't better infrastructure especially in the case of one of the most important interstate corridors in the nation benefit everyone?

First thing I thought of was noise.  The current Des Plaines River bridge has a very high elevation above ground due to river navigation rules.

At ground level, DOT's typically place a sound wall, but at elevation, how does truck sounds propagate through the surrounding neighborhoods?

Since the bridge will be wider, more waste water to drain off. Where does this go? Today it simply falls off based on the pitch of the deck near the pylons and eventually ends up in the Des Plaines.

Will that water need treatment if it is collected and if so who should do it? Or should it be simply dumped into the City of Joliet waster water system?

[Rick Powell]

From that link:

Input was gathered from communities that could be directly or indirectly impacted by the Des Plaines River Bridge replacement and those who may experience a disproportionally high and adverse effect as a result of this improvement without additional mitigation measures

I've never understood this mentality. Doesn't better infrastructure especially in the case of one of the most important interstate corridors in the nation benefit everyone?

Disclaimer - my company is working on the bridge plans.

Yes, the corridor improvements will definitely bring regional and national benefits, but there are some issues with the affected neighborhood that were particularly difficult to resolve. One issue was that, for the homes that would be displaced, the state was having a very difficult time finding suitable replacement housing for what the federal "uniform act" policy would allow for appraised value. They are working through the issues now and, for the overall price of the project, it's not asking much to be sensitive to the needs of those who must relocate, and those who will remain nearby.

[hobsini2]

I still can't believe that they didn't just make it 6 through lanes from I-55 to US 30.  They way I read this, Houbolt to Center St is just 4 lanes and Richards to US 30 is 4 lanes.  At least the Des Plaines bridges itself will be 6 through and 2 aux lanes.

[kphoger]

What roads in Illinois that you've driven on that have not even an unpaved shoulder? Almost every road I've driven on within IDOT jurisdiction has one.

Some "shoulders" aren't particularly useful...

https://goo.gl/maps/b5RxFysPQ6TEF5Ka8
https://goo.gl/maps/NdUvSAD2AM8Mzve96
https://goo.gl/maps/1drPDVMHKbZyJ3339
https://goo.gl/maps/xHNjjoQzaBhBJvax8

[hobsini2]

What roads in Illinois that you've driven on that have not even an unpaved shoulder? Almost every road I've driven on within IDOT jurisdiction has one.

Some "shoulders" aren't particularly useful...

https://goo.gl/maps/b5RxFysPQ6TEF5Ka8
https://goo.gl/maps/NdUvSAD2AM8Mzve96
https://goo.gl/maps/1drPDVMHKbZyJ3339
https://goo.gl/maps/xHNjjoQzaBhBJvax8

And by comparison since Crash It likes to shit on the quality of roads in Wisconsin... Oh look. Real shoulders AND decent to good asphalt.
Hwy 73 in Green Lake County: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4913826,-89.0000527,3a,75y,350.44h,80.22t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxCF5RCobmpzjTt8iRrtwHQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DxCF5RCobmpzjTt8iRrtwHQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D269.81122%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

Hwy 23 in Marquette County:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8308305,-89.2322152,3a,75y,76.4h,75.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVZWCNVk9vMQEy-7XyjOvGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Hwy 35 in Trempealeau County:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0691813,-91.4510575,3a,75y,171.17h,86.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4EfvJNTtZpj_Y2JfM43T6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Even Hwy 47 in Menominee County. That's the county that is all Native American Reservation and one of the poorest in the state.:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8875051,-88.6541267,3a,75y,327.13h,74.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz4WanOIowVY5FcuDbn8Zxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[3467]

They Illinois standard for 2 lanes since the 70s has been a 3 foot paved and 5 gravel but they just never did it. I think One as that mentioned in one of the old annual plans.
They did it on part of 67 north of Monmouth. They were going to extend finally in Warren but guess what the shoulders are 6 feet ...Paved!

[kphoger]

Heck, you can even find useless 'shoulders' or missing shoulders on US Routes in Illinois.

US 20  – https://goo.gl/maps/RoVr8d5CoAA8NdeU6
US 24 – https://goo.gl/maps/DJcwVq9w66Ee5rpb8
US 34 – https://goo.gl/maps/iTjtCFiDa6bwE6Ys9
US 40 – https://goo.gl/maps/VGosC7X3iK5or9aj9
US 45 – https://goo.gl/maps/hpV39LA5EG8Z367Z6
US 52 – https://goo.gl/maps/4ZpnfCT6X85jkGAU6
US 54 – https://goo.gl/maps/7odzgQcA1SK1GwUJ9
US 67 – https://goo.gl/maps/8puo6xGofnojbTZF9
US 136 – https://goo.gl/maps/essERhYLtXGt4f2A9

[Crash_It]

Heck, you can even find useless 'shoulders' or missing shoulders on US Routes in Illinois.

US 20  – https://goo.gl/maps/RoVr8d5CoAA8NdeU6
US 24 – https://goo.gl/maps/DJcwVq9w66Ee5rpb8
US 34 – https://goo.gl/maps/iTjtCFiDa6bwE6Ys9
US 40 – https://goo.gl/maps/VGosC7X3iK5or9aj9
US 45 – https://goo.gl/maps/hpV39LA5EG8Z367Z6
US 52 – https://goo.gl/maps/4ZpnfCT6X85jkGAU6
US 54 – https://goo.gl/maps/7odzgQcA1SK1GwUJ9
US 67 – https://goo.gl/maps/8puo6xGofnojbTZF9
US 136 – https://goo.gl/maps/essERhYLtXGt4f2A9

Some of both examples are from before the roads were repaved and had shoulders added.

[edwaleni]

Perhaps a thread called "Unique shoulders in the Midwest" is in order.

[SSOWorld]

Perhaps a thread called "Unique shoulders in the Midwest" is in order.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <-- unique?

[kphoger]

Some of both examples are from before the roads were repaved and had shoulders added.

meh.

You're the one who said, "Almost every road I've driven on within IDOT jurisdiction has [at least an unpaved shoulder]."  Apparently you've only been driving for about five years...

[Crash_It]

Some of both examples are from before the roads were repaved and had shoulders added.

meh.

You're the one who said, "Almost every road I've driven on within IDOT jurisdiction has [at least an unpaved shoulder]."  Apparently you've only been driving for about five years...

More than 5 years.

[Alps]

I just drove IL 72, 73, 75. I can tell you all the shoulders are not a consistent formula. Some parts of the road have no shoulder at all. More often there's a few feet of gravel at least. Sometimes that's paved (2-3 feet though). Very rare to have more than that.

Oh, also, Illinois has plenty of hills 🙃

[hobsini2]

Perhaps a thread called "Unique shoulders in the Midwest" is in order.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <-- unique?

Did someone say Unique Shoulders?
How about some unusual should exercises?
https://www.bulk.com/uk/the-core/5-unusual-shoulder-exercises-need-try/

[Revive 755]

The US 20 Rockford Bypass has received enhanced mile markers for a little bit west of I-39.  https://goo.gl/maps/DsRECokEFf4pAsHh8

[SSOWorld]

The US 20 Rockford Bypass has received enhanced mile markers for a little bit west of I-39.  https://goo.gl/maps/DsRECokEFf4pAsHh8

the mile markers should be to the Iowa state line, not to the Winnebago county line (SOP for Illinois on roads owned by the state that are not Interstates)

I've seen similar practices in Chicagoland on US-41 in Lake and Cook County.

[JoePCool14]

The US 20 Rockford Bypass has received enhanced mile markers for a little bit west of I-39.  https://goo.gl/maps/DsRECokEFf4pAsHh8

Yup, I believe they were installed because of the IL-2 interchange reconstruction. Could've been a part of the same contract.

I would like to see proper enhanced mileposts at least to the end of the 4-lane section in IL. And then ideally, exit numbers on all full interchanges in the Rockford and Freeport areas. But that's almost certainly not going to happen.

[cwm1276]

The US 20 Rockford Bypass has received enhanced mile markers for a little bit west of I-39.  https://goo.gl/maps/DsRECokEFf4pAsHh8

Yup, I believe they were installed because of the IL-2 interchange reconstruction. Could've been a part of the same contract.

I would like to see proper enhanced mileposts at least to the end of the 4-lane section in IL. And then ideally, exit numbers on all full interchanges in the Rockford and Freeport areas. But that's almost certainly not going to happen.

They started with the resurfacing between Harrison and Alpine.  The 39 section gained proper interstate markers, which I don't recall before.

[JoePCool14]

The US 20 Rockford Bypass has received enhanced mile markers for a little bit west of I-39.  https://goo.gl/maps/DsRECokEFf4pAsHh8

Yup, I believe they were installed because of the IL-2 interchange reconstruction. Could've been a part of the same contract.

I would like to see proper enhanced mileposts at least to the end of the 4-lane section in IL. And then ideally, exit numbers on all full interchanges in the Rockford and Freeport areas. But that's almost certainly not going to happen.

They started with the resurfacing between Harrison and Alpine.  The 39 section gained proper interstate markers, which I don't recall before.

Yes and yes. Hopefully this next segment that's being resurfaced west of IL-2 will receive some mile markers too.