I'm starting this topic as I didn't see anything regarding roads in the Palm Springs area. I hope to use this to update conditions in the area along with any projects happening. I've only been here for a short time, but there has already been a lot of news regarding Palm Springs area roads. The following roads are still closed after the Valentine's Day deluge.
Tram Way from the visitors center to the tram (Palm Springs) (should open by April 1)
Cathedral Canyon Drive at the Whitewater River (Cathedral City)
Avenue 44 at the Whitewater River (Indio)
Near Idyllwild (not really PS, but it's on the local news)
CA 243 - Mellor Ranch Road to Black Mountain Trail
CA 74 - almost the entire distance from Valle Vista to Mountain Center
Other previously closed road include:
CA 111 at Windy Point (just east of the bridge)
N Indian Canyon Road at Whitewater River
Gene Autry Trail at Whitewater River
Vista Chino at Whitewater River
Ferrell Drive at Tahquitz Creek
El Cielo at Tahquitz Creek
Araby Drive at Araby Wash (opened this week)
Wow, didn't realize so many of the roads in the Low Desert were whacked too.
I've seen pics of what happened with 243. I believe that will be a LONG repair job.
Hadn't heard that 74 up the western slope of the San Jacintos had been washed out too. I remember that road fondly. Spent a good deal of time in my youth at Lake Hemet (and some times at Lake Fulmor near Idyllwild as well).
Have you heard ETAs on any of these (other than Tram Wy & Araby Dr, which you already mentioned)?
Palm Springs and Cathedral City are always traffic nightmares when it rains. Have there been any updates on a Vista Chino bridge or an expansion of the Ramon Road bridge?
Vista Chino is supposed to get a bridge in a couple years. I'll look to see if I can find a set timeline, but earlier reports state 2023 (https://www.kesq.com/news/palm-springs-receives-7-million-dollar-grant-for-vista-chino-bridge-project/303370528).
Cathedral Canyon Drive at the wash will be open next week Monday or Tuesday (https://www.kesq.com/news/cathedral-canyon-drive-to-reopen-at-the-wash-next-week/1056693800).
CA 74 and 243 are both listed as with no schedule. I'd still guess CA 74 shouldn't take too long; it's already had one small section open. Mark68 is probably right on CA 243 taking a while.
I haven't heard anything about a Ramon Road bridge expansion. It could easily use a third lane each way.
I drove back from Phoenix last week. The VMS on I-10 east of Blythe had "243 Detour Use 74," which I felt was interesting, considering that 74 ends at the Palm Desert city limits and there's absolutely no mention of it on the 10 itself at Monterey Avenue. Still, it looks like there's no access to Idyllwild from Hemet.
JustDrive, you are correct. CA 74 is closed between Hemet and Mountain Center. The only way into Idyllwild is from the southeast, either via CA 74 through Palm Desert or CA 79 to CA 371 from Temecula. This morning's local news had a piece about how it may be four months before both are open. I found a more informative video from a couple days ago. (https://www.kesq.com/news/repairs-to-sr-243-74-will-take-at-least-4-months/1057742646) Here's the accompanying text:
Quote
The California Department of Transportation provided an update on the emergency repairs to State Route 74 and State Route 243 near Idyllwild and Mountain Center.
On Feb. 14, SR 243 and SR 74 both sustained significant storm damage. Roadways were washed away, sinkholes appeared, some roads were completely lost.
At this time, the only way drivers can go up SR 74 to access Mountain Center or Idyllwild is through Palm Desert or Temecula.
Caltrans revealed Ames Construction has been working 12-hour shifts to rebuild the roads as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, additional storms throughout the past couple of weeks have caused further damage to both routes.
According to Caltrans, over 25 locations on SR-243 sustained damage including two locations with complete road loss. SR 74 has over 40 locations that will require repairs.
Caltrans officials said the original $8 million emergency contract to repair both routes will see an increase in cost.
Currently, Caltrans estimates it will take at least four months before the public will be able to access either route. The reopening of the route will also depend on if there are more weather delays or other unforeseen damages or circumstances.
On SR 74, there are limited lane widths. In the event of an emergency that would require the community to be evacuated, Caltrans, in coordination with the California Highway Patrol, Riverside County Sheriff and Emergency Management, will make arrangements for evacuation if it becomes necessary between Mountain Center and Valle Vista.
I guess the good news is that California is no longer in a drought...
Found another article on mynewsla (https://mynewsla.com/business/2019/03/12/repairs-to-last-months-on-highways-damaged-during-whopper-storm/) which gives better details of the damage on CA 74 and CA 243. Here's the text:
Quote
It may be summer before state Routes 74 and 243 completely reopen to the general public due to the extensive repair work required to restore the corridors, both of which were severely damaged during a mid-February storm event, Caltrans announced Tuesday.
"There are over 25 locations on Route 243 with damage, including two locations with complete road loss," according to a Caltrans statement. "Route 74 has over 40 locations that will require repairs. At this time, Caltrans is estimating at least four months before public access or reopening of both highways can take place."
Even as crews make progress fixing one spot, other deficiencies are found elsewhere that have to be addressed, according to the state transportation agency.
"Caltrans is making every effort to expedite repairs and restore the routes to the community, businesses, lodging industry and tourism," according to the statement. "The safety of the traveling public remains a concern on both routes."
The worst of the damage was in the area of Lake Fulmor, between Pine Cove and Banning, where Highway 243 completely collapsed and disappeared amid torrential downpours and mud flows on Feb . 14.
Another segment of the two-lane, 30-mile corridor, which is the primary north-south artery through the southern half of the San Bernardino National Forest, also gave way south of Idyllwild.
The entire highway is out of service between Interstate 10 and Idyllwild, while the southern half between Mountain Center and Idyllwild is accessible to residents and business owners.
One-way traffic control is in effect along the lower part of the route, and a detour onto a county road is necessary to bypass one sinkhole, according to Caltrans District 8 spokeswoman Terri Kasinga.
A 15-mile segment of Highway 74 is out of service because of the storm damage, which caused washouts and sinkholes.
A portion of the highway at the Strawberry Creek crossing, roughly three miles west of Mountain Center, collapsed after it was compromised by runoff.
The highway is closed from Valle Vista, just east of Hemet, to Mountain Center.
Burnsville, Minnesota-based Ames Construction Inc. was hired last month under a Caltrans emergency work order to make repairs to the 243, as well as the busted segments of state Route 74, at a cost of $8 million.
Ames was also the contractor hired in August to restore roadway surfaces damaged during the 13,000-acre Cranston Fire near Mountain Center.
Commuters coming from the west or south, attempting to reach Lake Hemet or continue on to Palm Springs, are advised to use Sage Road from Hemet, or state Route 79 from Temecula, then connect to state Route 371 eastbound, which links to the open half of Highway 74 in Anza.
More information about the closures is available here (http://www.dot.ca.gov/d8/index.html).
Quote
Escorts to SR 74 from Hemet expected to start in 4-6 weeks (https://www.kesq.com/news/escorts-to-sr-74-from-hemet-expected-to-start-in-4-6-weeks/1060584313)
Community meeting gives latest update on repairs
IDYLLWILD, Calif.- - Caltrans, California Highway Patrol, and county officials held an informational meeting Monday night to update mountain communities on road repairs to Highway 74 and 243.
Both 74 and 243 sustained significant damage during the record-breaking storm on Feb. 14. Numerous storms since that day have only worsened the damage. Crews have been working 12 hours a day to repair the roads.
People who attended the meeting spoke about seeing road closure signs all over the mountain, but the meeting really made them understand how badly the roads have been damaged.
"It was good to see pictures because when you see the pictures you believe it a lot more than just seeing the little closed signs," said Marla Moore, an Idyllwild resident.
CHP captured drone footage of the damage left behind.
"I had no idea. You think a little piece [of debris] here, a little piece there, no, roads are gone," said Christine Holandna, owner of Lily of the Valley Florist in Idyllwild.
(https://media.kesq.com/npg-kesq-media-us-east-1/photo/2019/03/18/3-18%20IDYLL%20ROADS_1552972028236.jpg_37778694_ver1.0_640_360.jpg)
Holandna says her business is staying afloat with support from locals but other small businesses who rely on visitors are struggling.
"We're still here, were alive, come up," Holanda said.
If all goes according to plan, more people will be able to travel up the mountain soon.
Caltrans officials announced that in four to six weeks, drivers will have access to SR 74 from Hemet with an escort from 4 am to 7 am and 6 pm to 9 pm.
"That'll be really good for the community because right now we're really struggling to figure out how to make paydays for their employees," one resident said.
Caltrans officials also said that escorts will become available all day in about 12 weeks.
If you missed today's meeting another informational meeting is scheduled for this Wednesday at 10 am at the United States Forest Service Cranston Station near Florida Avenue and Idyllwild National Forest Highway in Hemet.
Idyllwild residents are also selling bracelets to help raise money for those affected by the loss of tourism. Click here (https://www.idyllwildstrong.com/product-page/idyllwild-strong-bracelet-pre-order?fbclid=IwAR3qvsGY26ym0GdqoVLOIv7Z-jsvIVWoCapvSRQenwahjghwDlfteFkgdFw) to buy a bracelet.
There's drone video showing some of the damage but I couldn't figure out how to insert it. Use link in first line of quote to view article.
Essentially, CA 74 will have one lane available with escorts each way around the beginning of April. That's actually pretty good considering the damage.
Hopefully there are no other issues before Caltrans is able to re-open the roads. Those businesses in the Idyllwild and Mountain Center areas are really going to need the roads open as soon as possible, so they don't miss much of their summer business.
Cathedral Canyon Drive at the Whitewater River wash in Cathedral City is now open (https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/traffic/2019/03/21/cathedral-canyon-re-opens-at-whitewater-wash-in-cathedral-city/3232590002/). There are plans to build a bridge over the wash. Construction is supposed to start within a year, but none of this would be necessary had this bridge project been started last year as originally planned (http://www.cathedralcity.gov/residents/community-projects/cathedral-canyon-bridge-project). I think the Date Palm Drive bridge widening project took longer than anticipated (it didn't finish until last fall). It would have been a disaster had Cathedral Canyon Drive been closed while Date Palm was only one lane in each direction.
Updated news on the roads to Idyllwild. Part of CA 243 is now open. (https://www.kesq.com/news/sr-243-to-reopen-today/1066989193) It is not completely open, but there is only a couple miles left to repair. CA 74 is still closed west of Mountain Center, but should be open with escorts by the end of the month (https://www.kesq.com/news/escorts-to-sr-74-from-hemet-expected-to-start-in-4-6-weeks/1060584313) with escorts.
It's not in the articles, but the road to the Whitewater Preserve and Avenue 44 in Indio are still closed. No word on when they will reopen.
Update on CA 74 between Hemet and Mountain Center. It will be open this weekend with escorts. (https://www.kesq.com/news/portion-of-highway-74-to-open-for-limited-travel-this-weekend/1070146424) The utility is quite limited though. It won't be 24 hours and speed will be limited to 25 mph. See linked article for details.
Box Canyon Road has been reopened. (https://www.kesq.com/news/box-canyon-road-reopens-ahead-of-schedule/1074969792) Box Canyon Road connects Mecca (just north of the Salton Sea) going northeast to I-10 near Chiriaco Summit. It's been closed since the Valentines Day storm that destroyed so much around here. I believe it once was US 60 if I'm reading this historical map (https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239594~5511896?qvq=q%3Acaltrans%3Bsort%3APub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No%3Blc%3ARUMSEY~8~1&mi=73&trs=86) accurately.
Let's hope this means CA 74 and 243 near Idyllwild will also be fully functional soon.
Quote from: skluth on May 03, 2019, 08:27:03 PM
Box Canyon Road has been reopened. (https://www.kesq.com/news/box-canyon-road-reopens-ahead-of-schedule/1074969792) Box Canyon Road connects Mecca (just north of the Salton Sea) going northeast to I-10 near Chiriaco Summit. It's been closed since the Valentines Day storm that destroyed so much around here. I believe it once was US 60 if I'm reading this historical map (https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239594~5511896?qvq=q%3Acaltrans%3Bsort%3APub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No%3Blc%3ARUMSEY~8~1&mi=73&trs=86) accurately.
Let's hope this means CA 74 and 243 near Idyllwild will also be fully functional soon.
It was indeed an old US 60 alignment, and was later CA 195 for awhile. http://www.floodgap.com/roadgap/195/
Quote from: skluth on May 03, 2019, 08:27:03 PM
Box Canyon Road has been reopened. (https://www.kesq.com/news/box-canyon-road-reopens-ahead-of-schedule/1074969792) Box Canyon Road connects Mecca (just north of the Salton Sea) going northeast to I-10 near Chiriaco Summit. It's been closed since the Valentines Day storm that destroyed so much around here.
Wow. I'm surprised they got it fixed so fast. The pix I saw of it made it look like it would be a major rebuilding effort, like CA-190 between Furnace Creek and Death Valley Junction back in '05.
Some projects within the city of Palm Springs. (https://www.kesq.com/news/major-road-projects-coming-to-palm-springs-next-week/1075017065)
Three projects total.
1. Adding a second left turn lane from NB Gene Autry Trail to WB Vista Chino. This is much needed, but there also really needs to be two left turn lanes from EB Vista Chino to NB Gene Autry which also backs up frequently.
2. Two-Way Traffic Conversion on Indian Canyon Drive downtown. This is probably good. Right now it's four one-way lanes and somewhat of a race track with a fair amount of speeding. (I am admittedly one of those who tend to speed through it.) It's usually not too busy and will make it much easier to get around downtown all the times they close Palm Canyon Drive downtown (like every Thursday evening).
3. Some additional traffic signals on Palm Canyon. I don't know if this is anticipating converting Palm Canyon Drive downtown from one-way to two-way traffic, but I don't see any other reason for doing this.
Caltrans had a meeting yesterday updating the conditions on CA 74 and CA 243 going to Idyllwild. (https://www.kesq.com/news/caltrans-provides-update-on-roads-to-mountain-communities/1086415666) The news was disappointing as I'm sure many were expecting at least one opening date. Unfortunately, CA 243 will remain closed while CA 74 will have extended escort hours on weekends. This is not what people were hoping to hear.
CA 74 Escort hours:
Saturdays and Sundays from 4:00 a.m. to midnight until the Labor Day weekend.
Monday through Friday, 4:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. to midnight, respectively.
See link for more, but it's not much.
Finally some news on CA 243 between Banning and Idyllwild. It will be open with escorts starting Nov 1. (https://www.kesq.com/news/hwy-243-to-open-for-first-time-since-valentine-s-day-storm/1114049940) CA 74 between Hemet and Idyllwild has been open with limited escorts for a while now and will be open full time by the end of October. I'll check both out when they reopen.
Quote from: skluth on August 28, 2019, 01:24:50 PM
Finally some news on CA 243 between Banning and Idyllwild. It will be open with escorts starting Nov 1. (https://www.kesq.com/news/hwy-243-to-open-for-first-time-since-valentine-s-day-storm/1114049940) CA 74 between Hemet and Idyllwild has been open with limited escorts for a while now and will be open full time by the end of October. I'll check both out when they reopen.
Good thing we've saved the Joshua Tree National Park trip until December/January, I wanted to get 243 in. Is 74 still going through escorts too?
Quote from: skluth on August 28, 2019, 01:24:50 PM
Finally some news on CA 243 between Banning and Idyllwild. It will be open with escorts starting Nov 1. (https://www.kesq.com/news/hwy-243-to-open-for-first-time-since-valentine-s-day-storm/1114049940) CA 74 between Hemet and Idyllwild has been open with limited escorts for a while now and will be open full time by the end of October. I'll check both out when they reopen.
Ha! Reopened just in time for the next rainy season!
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2019, 04:17:12 PM
Quote from: skluth on August 28, 2019, 01:24:50 PM
Finally some news on CA 243 between Banning and Idyllwild. It will be open with escorts starting Nov 1. (https://www.kesq.com/news/hwy-243-to-open-for-first-time-since-valentine-s-day-storm/1114049940) CA 74 between Hemet and Idyllwild has been open with limited escorts for a while now and will be open full time by the end of October. I'll check both out when they reopen.
Good thing we've saved the Joshua Tree National Park trip until December/January, I wanted to get 243 in. Is 74 still going through escorts too?
Yes, CA 74 still has escorts. It will have 24/7 escorts starting this weekend and is planned to be fully open sometime in October.
Quote from: skluth on August 28, 2019, 09:12:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2019, 04:17:12 PM
Quote from: skluth on August 28, 2019, 01:24:50 PM
Finally some news on CA 243 between Banning and Idyllwild. It will be open with escorts starting Nov 1. (https://www.kesq.com/news/hwy-243-to-open-for-first-time-since-valentine-s-day-storm/1114049940) CA 74 between Hemet and Idyllwild has been open with limited escorts for a while now and will be open full time by the end of October. I'll check both out when they reopen.
Good thing we've saved the Joshua Tree National Park trip until December/January, I wanted to get 243 in. Is 74 still going through escorts too?
Yes, CA 74 still has escorts. It will have 24/7 escorts starting this weekend and is planned to be fully open sometime in October.
Good thing I won't be through until at least November if not later.
My plans for next weekend got quashed in the Cascades due to some early winter storms in the forecast. That being the case I'll be heading out to Joshua Tree National Park given the weather will be nice and I'll be staying in the Palm Springs Area. I have some stuff in mind for the three day trip that I'd like to get:
- Since I'm leaving on Friday morning I'm going to make an attempt of all of CA 60 since I can dodge the weekend closures. I'm planning on taking CA 243 as far south as the current closures given I'll still be able to get the "panoramic" portion of the highway. I'm looking at getting a photo album going for I-10 between CA 60 and CA 111. If time permits I'm looking at CA 74 west from CA 111 to Pinion Pines. If I recall correctly there was an older US 60/70/99 bridge in Whitewater right off of I-10?
- Saturday is mostly a hiking day but I'm looking at former US 60/70/CA 195 on Box Canyon Road to Mecca. I might look at the relatively new CA 86 expressway and Dillion Road if I have the time...I want to say it was 86S still when I worked in the area?
- Sunday if the weather is good I'm looking clinching CA 38, 189 and 330. If it's not good I'll do I-210/CA 210 and maybe try CA 39 a bit north of Azusa. My bail out plan is all of CA 247 to Barstow.
Yeah, the old 99 bridge in Whitewater is (conveniently) at the Whitewater exit. There's a rock and supply place there, and it's east of that. Very easy to get to. https://www.google.com/maps/place/33°55'30.6"N+116°38'09.5"W
All the 86S shields are down near as I can tell, but there are probably some postmiles and bridge markers that still say it.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 21, 2019, 05:51:42 PM
Yeah, the old 99 bridge in Whitewater is (conveniently) at the Whitewater exit. There's a rock and supply place there, and it's east of that. Very easy to get to. https://www.google.com/maps/place/33°55'30.6"N+116°38'09.5"W
All the 86S shields are down near as I can tell, but there are probably some postmiles and bridge markers that still say it.
That's the one I was looking for. I had it in my old hard drive bridge files but it was of the albums I couldn't recover.
Does anyone known if that Geyser on CA 111 east of the Salton Sea is still active? I didn't any indication on the Quickmap that was still an ongoing problem.
I don't get down that way a great deal, but last time I was there a couple months ago I don't recall seeing it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The geyser/mud pot has now closed a part of CA 111 (https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-11/district-11-news/20190904-d11news-sr11detourmudpot) near Nyland. It had been moving closer to the highway over the last several months. It looks pretty active in the videos on the local news.
^^^^^^^^^
If the mud pot keeps moving west, wouldn't it be cheaper to just move the highway (and the adjacent railroad tracks) to the east of the pot? It looks like there would be SOME land acquisition necessary, but it doesn't appear to be a prohibitive amount.
Ended up taking all of I-215, CA 79, CA 371, CA 74 and what's left of CA 111 into Palm Springs. I forgot how impressive CA 74 really is through Santa Rosa-San Jacinto Mountains National Monument. It was quite the shock to see how I-215 has been built up from CA 210 southward. I was used to that long four lane stretch from CA 74 southward when I worked out in the area. When did CA 111 move off of Indian Canyon/Palm Canyon through downtown Palm Springs? That felt bizarre taking a swing on Gene Autry Trail.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 27, 2019, 09:36:43 PM
Ended up taking all of I-215, CA 79, CA 371, CA 74 and what's left of CA 111 into Palm Springs. I forgot how impressive CA 74 really is through Santa Rosa-San Jacinto Mountains National Monument. It was quite the shock to see how I-215 has been built up from CA 210 southward. I was used to that long four lane stretch from CA 74 southward when I worked out in the area. When did CA 111 move off of Indian Canyon/Palm Canyon through downtown Palm Springs? That felt bizarre taking a swing on Gene Autry Trail.
IIRC, the CA 111 detour via Gene Autry dates from the early-to-mid-90's. When I moved from Portland down to Anaheim Hills back in 1997, I regularly visited a cousin who lived out in La Quinta; by that time, 111 had been relocated away from downtown Palm Springs. That move was deemed a prerequisite for the city of Palm Springs to institute traffic calming and other modifications to Palm Canyon Drive.
Quote from: sparker on September 28, 2019, 03:26:46 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 27, 2019, 09:36:43 PM
Ended up taking all of I-215, CA 79, CA 371, CA 74 and what's left of CA 111 into Palm Springs. I forgot how impressive CA 74 really is through Santa Rosa-San Jacinto Mountains National Monument. It was quite the shock to see how I-215 has been built up from CA 210 southward. I was used to that long four lane stretch from CA 74 southward when I worked out in the area. When did CA 111 move off of Indian Canyon/Palm Canyon through downtown Palm Springs? That felt bizarre taking a swing on Gene Autry Trail.
IIRC, the CA 111 detour via Gene Autry dates from the early-to-mid-90's. When I moved from Portland down to Anaheim Hills back in 1997, I regularly visited a cousin who lived out in La Quinta; by that time, 111 had been relocated away from downtown Palm Springs. That move was deemed a prerequisite for the city of Palm Springs to institute traffic calming and other modifications to Palm Canyon Drive.
That's probably around when it happened since 111 was apparently relinquished in Cathedral City and El Mirage by 1996. There is a 111 Business placard in place at Palm Canyon and Gene Autry with a very old shield to boot. Gene Autry and Rio Vista have some shields but I didn't see a single Post Mile paddle. Looking at Daniel's site the whole route of 111 in Palm Springs is up for relinquishment which would explain the light signage.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 28, 2019, 09:02:20 AM
Quote from: sparker on September 28, 2019, 03:26:46 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 27, 2019, 09:36:43 PM
Ended up taking all of I-215, CA 79, CA 371, CA 74 and what's left of CA 111 into Palm Springs. I forgot how impressive CA 74 really is through Santa Rosa-San Jacinto Mountains National Monument. It was quite the shock to see how I-215 has been built up from CA 210 southward. I was used to that long four lane stretch from CA 74 southward when I worked out in the area. When did CA 111 move off of Indian Canyon/Palm Canyon through downtown Palm Springs? That felt bizarre taking a swing on Gene Autry Trail.
IIRC, the CA 111 detour via Gene Autry dates from the early-to-mid-90's. When I moved from Portland down to Anaheim Hills back in 1997, I regularly visited a cousin who lived out in La Quinta; by that time, 111 had been relocated away from downtown Palm Springs. That move was deemed a prerequisite for the city of Palm Springs to institute traffic calming and other modifications to Palm Canyon Drive.
That's probably around when it happened since 111 was apparently relinquished in Cathedral City and El Mirage by 1996. There is a 111 Business placard in place at Palm Canyon and Gene Autry with a very old shield to boot. Gene Autry and Rio Vista have some shields but I didn't see a single Post Mile paddle. Looking at Daniel's site the whole route of 111 in Palm Springs is up for relinquishment which would explain the light signage.
That will leave CA 74 "dangling", so to speak; given Caltrans' recent disinterest in signage, that situation will likely result in that highway simply fading into virtual nothingness at the former CA 111 junction -- unless D8 regains some sense of propriety and signs CA 74 either along its former (pre-'64) SSR self east to Indio and I-10
or Monterey Ave. north of old CA 111 is brought into the state highway system up to I-10. Don't expect the latter to occur; the agency is loath to adopt new surface routings, particularly in urban/suburban environments. Even visible trailblazer signage to and from I-10 would be nice -- but even that seems beyond Caltrans sensibilities these days.
Quotethat situation will likely result in that highway simply fading into virtual nothingness at the former CA 111 junction
I'd say that's already the case. The signage around there is already "blink and miss it" from 111.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 28, 2019, 04:07:15 PM
Quotethat situation will likely result in that highway simply fading into virtual nothingness at the former CA 111 junction
I'd say that's already the case. The signage around there is already "blink and miss it" from 111.
I would agree with that sentiment, the highway is virtually unsigned at this point. Doesn't CA 75 already end at the city limits of Palm Desert?
Had a hell of a day today. Spent about 4 hours hiking out in Joshua Tree National Park. I checked out; Pinto Basin Road, a freshly paved Box Canyon Road (Old US 60/70/CA 195), Old CA 231, the new CA 86 expressway and even the old Whitewater Bridge (at least as close as I could get). The rebuild of Box Canyon Road is actually pretty impressive but still doesn't really have the grade it needs to avoid flooding.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 28, 2019, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 28, 2019, 04:07:15 PM
Quotethat situation will likely result in that highway simply fading into virtual nothingness at the former CA 111 junction
I'd say that's already the case. The signage around there is already "blink and miss it" from 111.
I would agree with that sentiment, the highway is virtually unsigned at this point. Doesn't CA 75 already end at the city limits of Palm Desert?
Had a hell of a day today. Spent about 4 hours hiking out in Joshua Tree National Park. I checked out; Pinto Basin Road, a freshly paved Box Canyon Road (Old US 60/70/CA 195), Old CA 231, the new CA 86 expressway and even the old Whitewater Bridge (at least as close as I could get). The rebuild of Box Canyon Road is actually pretty impressive but still doesn't really have the grade it needs to avoid flooding.
Although the standard Caltrans relinquishment agreement calls for maintaining route signage for the sake of continuity and navigation, that seems to be honored more in the breach than the observance. The local jurisdictions either don't want to be bothered with sign maintenance or, in some potential circumstances, would rather not "enable" through commercial traffic through their midst by providing an easy-to-follow signed route (maintenance details of such notwithstanding). And by now it's pretty clear that enforcement of those agreements is well down Caltrans' priority list. D8 is probably just happy to have the maintenance of 111 off their books, while La Quinta and the other traversed cities are equally happy to be able to configure the facility to their liking. I suppose Caltrans figures if they get CA 74 traffic down off the mountain and into the general Coachella Valley urbanized area, they've done their job. To those of us who value a cohesive highway network (maybe we're just fossils!), the situation is quite pathetic!
Quote from: sparker on September 29, 2019, 01:50:17 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 28, 2019, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on September 28, 2019, 04:07:15 PM
Quotethat situation will likely result in that highway simply fading into virtual nothingness at the former CA 111 junction
I'd say that's already the case. The signage around there is already "blink and miss it" from 111.
I would agree with that sentiment, the highway is virtually unsigned at this point. Doesn't CA 75 already end at the city limits of Palm Desert?
Had a hell of a day today. Spent about 4 hours hiking out in Joshua Tree National Park. I checked out; Pinto Basin Road, a freshly paved Box Canyon Road (Old US 60/70/CA 195), Old CA 231, the new CA 86 expressway and even the old Whitewater Bridge (at least as close as I could get). The rebuild of Box Canyon Road is actually pretty impressive but still doesn't really have the grade it needs to avoid flooding.
Although the standard Caltrans relinquishment agreement calls for maintaining route signage for the sake of continuity and navigation, that seems to be honored more in the breach than the observance. The local jurisdictions either don't want to be bothered with sign maintenance or, in some potential circumstances, would rather not "enable" through commercial traffic through their midst by providing an easy-to-follow signed route (maintenance details of such notwithstanding). And by now it's pretty clear that enforcement of those agreements is well down Caltrans' priority list. D8 is probably just happy to have the maintenance of 111 off their books, while La Quinta and the other traversed cities are equally happy to be able to configure the facility to their liking. I suppose Caltrans figures if they get CA 74 traffic down off the mountain and into the general Coachella Valley urbanized area, they've done their job. To those of us who value a cohesive highway network (maybe we're just fossils!), the situation is quite pathetic!
Looks like 74 had continuation signage as part of the relinquishment but not 111. Something I noticed yesterday was that there is 111 signs on 66th Avenue in Mecca directing traffic to CA 86. The 111 signage multiplexes onto 86 north but disappears before 62nd Avenue. I'm still working on my photos so I'll post them when available. Suffice to say the situation with 111 disappearing in the middle of 86 is odd.
This topic reminds me of a suggestion I had put in place in Fictional Highways a number of years ago to straighten out some of the highway alignments in the Indio area. In my mind, there is no need for a state maintained Hwy 111 north of Mecca (66th Ave). Traffic going to the Salton Sea area should take I-10 to CA 86 and then stay on CA 86 for the west shore and traffic to Imperial County and east shore traffic should cut off at 66th Ave for 111.
The remaining parts of 111 can be known by their local names (Palm Canyon, Grapefruit, Indio Blvd, etc.). The one problem is that there seems to be a large section in Palm Desert and Indian Wells where the road is just known as Hwy 111. Hopefully, the local authorities can come up with an appropriate name for the corridor. This stretch is really local in nature as thru E-W traffic thru the valley should just take I-10.
As far as CA 74, they can leave it hanging, but they must put in really good directional signage at its end in Palm Desert. Turn left to Palm Springs. Stay straight on Moneterey Ave to reach I-10. Turn right for Indio. And there should also be good signage to guide traffic in the other direction as well to guide traffic from I-10 to CA 7 via Monterey.
Quote from: mrsman on September 29, 2019, 12:31:04 PM
This topic reminds me of a suggestion I had put in place in Fictional Highways a number of years ago to straighten out some of the highway alignments in the Indio area. In my mind, there is no need for a state maintained Hwy 111 north of Mecca (66th Ave). Traffic going to the Salton Sea area should take I-10 to CA 86 and then stay on CA 86 for the west shore and traffic to Imperial County and east shore traffic should cut off at 66th Ave for 111.
The remaining parts of 111 can be known by their local names (Palm Canyon, Grapefruit, Indio Blvd, etc.). The one problem is that there seems to be a large section in Palm Desert and Indian Wells where the road is just known as Hwy 111. Hopefully, the local authorities can come up with an appropriate name for the corridor. This stretch is really local in nature as thru E-W traffic thru the valley should just take I-10.
As far as CA 74, they can leave it hanging, but they must put in really good directional signage at its end in Palm Desert. Turn left to Palm Springs. Stay straight on Moneterey Ave to reach I-10. Turn right for Indio. And there should also be good signage to guide traffic in the other direction as well to guide traffic from I-10 to CA 7 via Monterey.
Should is the operative word here -- but the agency tends not to place "trailblazer" signage such as that suggested. While Monterey
is the shortest route from the former 74/111 intersection to I-10, it's quite out of the way for traffic from eastward I-10 (and CA 86 and the remaining CA 111 section as well) to go to access CA 74's "Palms to Pines" mountain stretch. Simply signing "TO CA 74" or, alternately, "TO I-10 EAST" along former 111 into Indio and on to I-10 itself would be more useful for through traffic to and from 74.
The last time I was down there (ca. 2012) the green street ID signs hanging from the signal arms on crossing roads still referenced "Highway 111" along the former alignment from Palm Desert through La Quinta and on to Indio Blvd.
Quote from: sparker on September 30, 2019, 03:03:00 AM
Quote from: mrsman on September 29, 2019, 12:31:04 PM
This topic reminds me of a suggestion I had put in place in Fictional Highways a number of years ago to straighten out some of the highway alignments in the Indio area. In my mind, there is no need for a state maintained Hwy 111 north of Mecca (66th Ave). Traffic going to the Salton Sea area should take I-10 to CA 86 and then stay on CA 86 for the west shore and traffic to Imperial County and east shore traffic should cut off at 66th Ave for 111.
The remaining parts of 111 can be known by their local names (Palm Canyon, Grapefruit, Indio Blvd, etc.). The one problem is that there seems to be a large section in Palm Desert and Indian Wells where the road is just known as Hwy 111. Hopefully, the local authorities can come up with an appropriate name for the corridor. This stretch is really local in nature as thru E-W traffic thru the valley should just take I-10.
As far as CA 74, they can leave it hanging, but they must put in really good directional signage at its end in Palm Desert. Turn left to Palm Springs. Stay straight on Moneterey Ave to reach I-10. Turn right for Indio. And there should also be good signage to guide traffic in the other direction as well to guide traffic from I-10 to CA 7 via Monterey.
Should is the operative word here -- but the agency tends not to place "trailblazer" signage such as that suggested. While Monterey is the shortest route from the former 74/111 intersection to I-10, it's quite out of the way for traffic from eastward I-10 (and CA 86 and the remaining CA 111 section as well) to go to access CA 74's "Palms to Pines" mountain stretch. Simply signing "TO CA 74" or, alternately, "TO I-10 EAST" along former 111 into Indio and on to I-10 itself would be more useful for through traffic to and from 74.
The last time I was down there (ca. 2012) the green street ID signs hanging from the signal arms on crossing roads still referenced "Highway 111" along the former alignment from Palm Desert through La Quinta and on to Indio Blvd.
And they still do reference 111 at least in Palm Desert. More concerning for me is the lack of a signed alternative to I-10 through Coachella Valley. Usually when something goes wrong on I-10 the only alternates are Dillon Road if you can reach it but more so I-10. An I-10 Business Route would probably be really appropriate if the remaining segment of 111 gets relinquished maybe with Dillon Road or Golf Center Parkway as an eastern terminus?
^^^^^^^^^^
If it weren't for the track record regarding Caltrans and business routes (wow, I'm certainly getting increasingly cynical about that agency!), I'd second the business loop notion; at least it would provide a signed routing (maintenance details notwithstanding) at which to terminate an interregional artery like CA 74 -- if trailblazer signage indicating such were deployed as well. IIRC, for a short while in the '80's the original 60/70/99 route through Indio actually featured Business I-10 green shields; the last time I was down on that road (circa 2011) I didn't notice any remaining. OTOH, D8's signage of Business Loop 15 through Victorville is exemplary, down to the right-angle turn at 7th and D Streets! I suppose obtaining cooperation of the local jurisdiction through which said loop extends is vital (V'ville also regularly indicates that loop as "Historic Route 66"; the Route 66 museum is located on the D Street segment of the loop, which may account for the city's tourist-related incentive). But getting Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Indian Wells, La Quinta, and Indio to cooperate on such a venture might be a hard sell, particularly since Palm Springs really doesn't seem to want a signed continuous route through its downtown; OTOH the other towns might welcome the business (the region's "auto row" is along part of old 111). And there's the matter of the rural/desert section of CA 111 from Palm Springs NW to I-10 at Whitewater; it's unlikely that either Riverside County nor any local jurisdiction would assent to assume maintenance of that segment; it'll probably remain a Caltrans property. Replacing the CA 111 shield with a Business 10 equivalent (that's the infamous "other Desert cities" assembly!) wouldn't in itself be problematic -- but the aforementioned concept of Business 10 through Palm Springs would be, unless the last 111 routing via Gene Autry and the airport were to be utilized as the default route. It might be something for D8 and the local MPO to explore -- but my own fear would be that there are just too many "ducks" to get lined up to get something like this accomplished -- especially with Caltrans' seeming lack of interest in surface signage.
I grew up a walk away from the often washed-out Avenue 44 crossing at the storm channel. It's what's considered a low-traffic road and of little importance. There's no ramp on Avenue 44 with I-10, you have to use Golf Center Parkway or Jackson Street instead.
Quote from: sparker on September 30, 2019, 02:02:35 PM
^^^^^^^^^^
If it weren't for the track record regarding Caltrans and business routes (wow, I'm certainly getting increasingly cynical about that agency!), I'd second the business loop notion; at least it would provide a signed routing (maintenance details notwithstanding) at which to terminate an interregional artery like CA 74 -- if trailblazer signage indicating such were deployed as well. IIRC, for a short while in the '80's the original 60/70/99 route through Indio actually featured Business I-10 green shields; the last time I was down on that road (circa 2011) I didn't notice any remaining. OTOH, D8's signage of Business Loop 15 through Victorville is exemplary, down to the right-angle turn at 7th and D Streets! I suppose obtaining cooperation of the local jurisdiction through which said loop extends is vital (V'ville also regularly indicates that loop as "Historic Route 66"; the Route 66 museum is located on the D Street segment of the loop, which may account for the city's tourist-related incentive). But getting Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Indian Wells, La Quinta, and Indio to cooperate on such a venture might be a hard sell, particularly since Palm Springs really doesn't seem to want a signed continuous route through its downtown; OTOH the other towns might welcome the business (the region's "auto row" is along part of old 111). And there's the matter of the rural/desert section of CA 111 from Palm Springs NW to I-10 at Whitewater; it's unlikely that either Riverside County nor any local jurisdiction would assent to assume maintenance of that segment; it'll probably remain a Caltrans property. Replacing the CA 111 shield with a Business 10 equivalent (that's the infamous "other Desert cities" assembly!) wouldn't in itself be problematic -- but the aforementioned concept of Business 10 through Palm Springs would be, unless the last 111 routing via Gene Autry and the airport were to be utilized as the default route. It might be something for D8 and the local MPO to explore -- but my own fear would be that there are just too many "ducks" to get lined up to get something like this accomplished -- especially with Caltrans' seeming lack of interest in surface signage.
Something that I find irksome with 111 is that there is no way the route will be relinquished west of the City Limits of Palm Springs. In effect that will leave another Route with a huge gap in it akin to CA 16 and CA 160. At minimum there could be some clarity but petitioning the legislature to assign a different number from I-10 east to Palm Springs but that likely would never happen. The problem with all the localities attempting to sign a business route is like you said, competing interests that likely don't agree with all parties. It kind of makes me think that we need an Auto Club type body to sign through highways again regardless of who maintains them like the early State Route era.
Speaking of Whitewater, how come traffic can no longer cross the 1923 Whitewater Bridge? There is a security guard posted there now telling people the road is closed to traffic but there is zero signage indicating it is closed nor a private road. I recall years ago people would actually do stupid things like try to get in the River there or access the windmill farms uphill.
Edit: Seems the BLM ordered the closure of public access to Whitewater Canyon. Now some of the things the guy was saying at the bridge make more sense:
https://www.wildlandsconservancy.org/preserve_whitewater.html
At minimum I was able to get a couple photos of the bridge and early concrete alignment of US 60/70/99.
QuoteAn I-10 Business Route
There is one, at least in Indio. It's not well signed but (out there on business this very morning) it's still visible on some of the cross streets.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 30, 2019, 03:21:09 PM
Speaking of Whitewater, how come traffic can no longer cross the 1923 Whitewater Bridge? There is a security guard posted there now telling people the road is closed to traffic but there is zero signage indicating it is closed nor a private road. I recall years ago people would actually do stupid things like try to get in the River there or access the windmill farms uphill.
Edit: Seems the BLM ordered the closure of public access to Whitewater Canyon. Now some of the things the guy was saying at the bridge make more sense:
https://www.wildlandsconservancy.org/preserve_whitewater.html
At minimum I was able to get a couple photos of the bridge and early concrete alignment of US 60/70/99.
People were swimming in the water illegally. Two people died last year when a kid got swept away in the water and his father tried to save him. That wasn't enough to deter others from going into the river. After repeated warnings, they finally had to close it off.
Quote from: skluth on October 01, 2019, 03:34:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 30, 2019, 03:21:09 PM
Speaking of Whitewater, how come traffic can no longer cross the 1923 Whitewater Bridge? There is a security guard posted there now telling people the road is closed to traffic but there is zero signage indicating it is closed nor a private road. I recall years ago people would actually do stupid things like try to get in the River there or access the windmill farms uphill.
Edit: Seems the BLM ordered the closure of public access to Whitewater Canyon. Now some of the things the guy was saying at the bridge make more sense:
https://www.wildlandsconservancy.org/preserve_whitewater.html
At minimum I was able to get a couple photos of the bridge and early concrete alignment of US 60/70/99.
People were swimming in the water illegally. Two people died last year when a kid got swept away in the water and his father tried to save him. That wasn't enough to deter others from going into the river. After repeated warnings, they finally had to close it off.
So the BLM closed access off for the entire river and shuttered a Wildlands Conservatory Preserve because of that? Wouldn't it have easier just to put a gate and fence at the bridge and let the Wildlands Conservancy manage their own Preserve? That seems kind of excessive considering some of the stuff people do out in Joshua Tree National Park that ended up getting them killed there. As far as I know the only thing that can be accessed on the opposite side of the Whitewater Bridge is the windmill farm anyways. The Wildlands Conservancy seems to do a pretty good job at managing wilderness areas, or at least I thought so with San Emigdio Canyon in the Wind Wolves Preserve.
A new bridge on Vista Chino may be the last major road to have an all-weather bridge in the Coachella Valley. In the 1970s-80s, there were 5 of them: Ramon, Date Palm, Bob Hope, Washington and Indio Blvd., plus 3 more in Monroe, Jackson and Golf Center to connect with I-10. The Indian Canyon and Gene Autry roads crosses 3 miles of the Whitewater river flood area.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 01, 2019, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: skluth on October 01, 2019, 03:34:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 30, 2019, 03:21:09 PM
Speaking of Whitewater, how come traffic can no longer cross the 1923 Whitewater Bridge? There is a security guard posted there now telling people the road is closed to traffic but there is zero signage indicating it is closed nor a private road. I recall years ago people would actually do stupid things like try to get in the River there or access the windmill farms uphill.
Edit: Seems the BLM ordered the closure of public access to Whitewater Canyon. Now some of the things the guy was saying at the bridge make more sense:
https://www.wildlandsconservancy.org/preserve_whitewater.html
At minimum I was able to get a couple photos of the bridge and early concrete alignment of US 60/70/99.
People were swimming in the water illegally. Two people died last year when a kid got swept away in the water and his father tried to save him. That wasn't enough to deter others from going into the river. After repeated warnings, they finally had to close it off.
So the BLM closed access off for the entire river and shuttered a Wildlands Conservatory Preserve because of that? Wouldn't it have easier just to put a gate and fence at the bridge and let the Wildlands Conservancy manage their own Preserve? That seems kind of excessive considering some of the stuff people do out in Joshua Tree National Park that ended up getting them killed there. As far as I know the only thing that can be accessed on the opposite side of the Whitewater Bridge is the windmill farm anyways. The Wildlands Conservancy seems to do a pretty good job at managing wilderness areas, or at least I thought so with San Emigdio Canyon in the Wind Wolves Preserve.
Two separate closures. The Whitewater Preserve and road leading to it suffered a lot of damage from the Valentine's Day storm like many other local roads. The road is not a high priority as it only has a couple homes on it besides Preserve buildings and those homes are fairly close to the old main road. There's a little more info on the site (https://www.wildlandsconservancy.org/preserve_whitewater.html), but that's basically the story.
Sorry for the confusion.
Quote from: Desert Man on October 01, 2019, 01:25:12 PM
A new bridge on Vista Chino may be the last major road to have an all-weather bridge in the Coachella Valley. In the 1970s-80s, there were 5 of them: Ramon, Date Palm, Bob Hope, Washington and Indio Blvd., plus 3 more in Monroe, Jackson and Golf Center to connect with I-10. The Indian Canyon and Gene Autry roads crosses 3 miles of the Whitewater river flood area.
Vista Chino will be the next bridge across the Whitewater Wash, expected to open in 2023 (https://www.kesq.com/news/palm-springs-receives-7-million-dollar-grant-for-vista-chino-bridge-project/303370528). There are currently no plans to build bridges on Gene Autry and Indian Canyon, both of which could really use one.
Avenue 44 in Indio just reopened this week. (https://www.kesq.com/news/ave-44-reopens-after-6-month-storm-closure/1128144548) There are plans to build an Avenue 44 bridge soon, but it's Indio so it may take longer than they plan.
Cathedral City also plans a bridge over the wash on Cathedral Canyon Drive (http://www.cathedralcity.gov/residents/community-projects/cathedral-canyon-bridge-project) which is still on schedule and should open next year. No idea if there are plans for Frank Sinatra Drive.
Quote from: skluth on October 02, 2019, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 01, 2019, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: skluth on October 01, 2019, 03:34:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 30, 2019, 03:21:09 PM
Speaking of Whitewater, how come traffic can no longer cross the 1923 Whitewater Bridge? There is a security guard posted there now telling people the road is closed to traffic but there is zero signage indicating it is closed nor a private road. I recall years ago people would actually do stupid things like try to get in the River there or access the windmill farms uphill.
Edit: Seems the BLM ordered the closure of public access to Whitewater Canyon. Now some of the things the guy was saying at the bridge make more sense:
https://www.wildlandsconservancy.org/preserve_whitewater.html
At minimum I was able to get a couple photos of the bridge and early concrete alignment of US 60/70/99.
People were swimming in the water illegally. Two people died last year when a kid got swept away in the water and his father tried to save him. That wasn't enough to deter others from going into the river. After repeated warnings, they finally had to close it off.
So the BLM closed access off for the entire river and shuttered a Wildlands Conservatory Preserve because of that? Wouldn't it have easier just to put a gate and fence at the bridge and let the Wildlands Conservancy manage their own Preserve? That seems kind of excessive considering some of the stuff people do out in Joshua Tree National Park that ended up getting them killed there. As far as I know the only thing that can be accessed on the opposite side of the Whitewater Bridge is the windmill farm anyways. The Wildlands Conservancy seems to do a pretty good job at managing wilderness areas, or at least I thought so with San Emigdio Canyon in the Wind Wolves Preserve.
Two separate closures. The Whitewater Preserve and road leading to it suffered a lot of damage from the Valentine's Day storm like many other local roads. The road is not a high priority as it only has a couple homes on it besides Preserve buildings and those homes are fairly close to the old main road. There's a little more info on the site (https://www.wildlandsconservancy.org/preserve_whitewater.html), but that's basically the story.
Sorry for the confusion.
I guess the question is then, was there structural damage to the 1923 Whitewater Bridge? That would certainly explain why the BLM doesn't want a lot of vehicles on it considering it is a main access roads to it the windmill farm. The last bridge report I read on the structure it actually was pretty sound, it would be a shame to see it replaced by some bland modern cookie cutter span.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm assuming by the 1923 bridge you are talking about the old main highway bridge east of the rock seller. That's the area closed off because of idiots swimming in the water. I doubt there is much, if any, damage to the bridge. I went down there about a month after the big February storm and was able to cross it with no trouble. They started restricting access when the weather warmed up and people would go to the river to cool off. I don't know how long they'll continue to restrict access; it will probably be restricted during warmer days even after the preserve reopens. The county doesn't want any more people dying.
The bridge is only a secondary access for the windmills. The primary access roads are off CA 62 behind all the crazies who live just west of the highway. The road east of the bridge could be closed with little problem.
Quote from: skluth on October 03, 2019, 02:07:27 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm assuming by the 1923 bridge you are talking about the old main highway bridge east of the rock seller. That's the area closed off because of idiots swimming in the water. I doubt there is much, if any, damage to the bridge. I went down there about a month after the big February storm and was able to cross it with no trouble. They started restricting access when the weather warmed up and people would go to the river to cool off. I don't know how long they'll continue to restrict access; it will probably be restricted during warmer days even after the preserve reopens. The county doesn't want any more people dying.
The bridge is only a secondary access for the windmills. The primary access roads are off CA 62 behind all the crazies who live just west of the highway. The road east of the bridge could be closed with little problem.
Yes, the old US 60/70/99 bridge. I'm starting to think the security guy might have misunderstood me or vice versa. He was mostly on about no parking (which there are plenty of signs) and not going in the River. Either way I got the photos I wanted and moved on. Kind of surprising the county even wants to keep the bridge open if they are so worried about people trying to test the theory of Darwinism in the River.
Escorts will no longer be needed between Hemet and Mountain Center on CA 74 as of yesterday. (https://www.kesq.com/news/escorts-on-sr-74-to-mountain-center-to-end-thursday/1128337438) There will still be some delays with flagging around work zones. No word on when work is expected to be complete.
Unfortunately, Caltrans has changed their announced reopening of CA 243 next month and instead it remains closed until further notice.
Quote from: skluth on October 04, 2019, 04:12:46 PM
Escorts will no longer be needed between Hemet and Mountain Center on CA 74 as of yesterday. (https://www.kesq.com/news/escorts-on-sr-74-to-mountain-center-to-end-thursday/1128337438) There will still be some delays with flagging around work zones. No word on when work is expected to be complete.
Unfortunately, Caltrans has changed their announced reopening of CA 243 next month and instead it remains closed until further notice.
They actually had 243 closed to all but local traffic south of Banning. The Quickmap had it open about five miles uphill, suffice to say I was disappointed I couldn't drive uphill a little.
Found an article in the July/August 1953 Department of Public Works Guide which features an article called "US 99 Progress" which has the recently replaced 1923 Whitewater Bridge pictured.
https://archive.org/details/californiahighwa195455calirich/page/n259
Finished the Gribblenation Blog Post on the 1923 Whitewater Bridge.
This past month I visited the 1923 Whitewater Bridge northwest of Palm Springs. The 1923 Whitewater Bridge was part of Southern National Highway and Atlantic & Pacific Highway before the US Route era. By 1926 the initial path of US 99 was aligned over the 1923 Whitewater Bridge which was joined by US 60 in 1932 followed by US 70 in 1934. The 1923 Whitewater Bridge was replaced by a new expressway alignment to the south in 1954 which essentially the present path of I-10. 1923 Whitewater Bridge is a tee beam structure and there is concrete on the western approach span which appears to be of the era that would have been used by US 99/60/70. In the past traffic could cross the 1923 Whitewater Bridge but it appears the structure is presently closed due to a death in the White Water River earlier this year.
https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/10/former-us-routes-607099-on-1923.html
Out of nowhere, Caltrans announced they will be opening up CA 243 between Banning and Idyllwild today. It was announced Tuesday evening, but I couldn't find a local mention of it so I pulled this (https://ktla.com/2019/10/30/route-to-idyllwild-reopens-after-8-month-closure-due-to-storm-damage/) from an LA station. Lots of folks are going to be happy about this. It's the last major route reopened that was closed by the February 14 storm that caused all sorts of damage both around Mt San Jacinto and in the Coachella Valley.
No idea why KTLA calls CA 74 a freeway in this article. It's not even limited access for a short stretch of an interchange.
Palm Springs is converting Indian Canyon Road to two-way traffic this week. (https://kesq.com/news/2020/01/06/indian-canyon-two-way-conversion-project-underway-this-week/) They have been working on this for a couple months now and the final restriping the street and reconfiguring the stop lights will happen during the night over the next few days.
I normally wouldn't include a local road here, but Indian Canyon is one of the two main N-S streets through downtown. Up until this week, Palm Canyon has been southbound and Indian Canyon northbound. Indian Canyon is literally the only northbound through street through Palm Springs to I-10 from the V/Ace/Saguaro Hotel district west of Sunrise (I believe it's the original NB CA 111 routing), so it's usually busy. Palm Canyon will continue to be one-way SB, but Indian Canyon will be two-way by Friday. Be alert for these changes if you are familiar with driving through the Western Coachella Valley.
I guess they want it as a bypass of the downtown? Get some of the traffic off?
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on January 06, 2020, 01:53:30 PM
I guess they want it as a bypass of the downtown? Get some of the traffic off?
A big problem is the frequent closing of Palm Canyon for events, leaving only a NB route through the area. Southbound traffic must use either Bellardo or Calle Encilla which have stop signs at most intersections. Bellardo has a bunch of old hotels and new boutique hotels with a lot of guests who walk to downtown, so it's a nightmare every Thursday evening. There are several parades down Palm Canyon (Veteran's, Pride) and it's closed every Thursday evening for Village Fest. It's not so much a bypass of downtown as making sure traffic keeps moving.
Indian Canyon was one-way, four-lanes plus parking on each side, so it's not like there wasn't room to convert it. I think most locals like the idea. I'm not sure how bad traffic might get on Indian Canyon after this conversion, but traffic is often light except during events and some drivers drive 40-50 down it when there are a lot of pedestrians in the area. Downtown already crosses Indian Canyon at Arenas and Tahquitz Canyon, and with the Agua Caliente Tribe planning a new arena next to the casino there will be even more pedestrian traffic crossing Indian Canyon so traffic does need to slow down.
Anyone bypassing downtown should really use Sunrise, Farrell, or the current CA 111 along Gene Autry. If anything, slower travel times on Indian Canyon should force even more through traffic away from downtown entirely.
Personally I've always found Indian Canyon to be way under capacity to really need to be a one way road anyways. It definitely will help aid trying to get around downtown and all those speed tables on Palm Canyon.
Reconfiguring both Palm and indian Canyons for two-way traffic should certainly help in the navigation of downtown Palm Springs; the former CA 111 couplet was instituted in the late '60's as a way to accommodate both local and through traffic on the state highway -- something that hasn't been needed since the CA 111 reroute (in reality made moot by the relinquishments through La Quinta and neighboring towns) by the airport. At this point, the city may as well restore the pre-1968 configuration; at least that should go a long way to obviating the need to circle multiple blocks looking for parking spaces!
Quote from: sparker on January 07, 2020, 06:33:58 PM
Reconfiguring both Palm and indian Canyons for two-way traffic should certainly help in the navigation of downtown Palm Springs; the former CA 111 couplet was instituted in the late '60's as a way to accommodate both local and through traffic on the state highway -- something that hasn't been needed since the CA 111 reroute (in reality made moot by the relinquishments through La Quinta and neighboring towns) by the airport. At this point, the city may as well restore the pre-1968 configuration; at least that should go a long way to obviating the need to circle multiple blocks looking for parking spaces!
Only Indian Canyon will be two-way. Palm Canyon will remain one-way.
Quote from: skluth on January 09, 2020, 09:14:09 AM
Quote from: sparker on January 07, 2020, 06:33:58 PM
Reconfiguring both Palm and indian Canyons for two-way traffic should certainly help in the navigation of downtown Palm Springs; the former CA 111 couplet was instituted in the late '60's as a way to accommodate both local and through traffic on the state highway -- something that hasn't been needed since the CA 111 reroute (in reality made moot by the relinquishments through La Quinta and neighboring towns) by the airport. At this point, the city may as well restore the pre-1968 configuration; at least that should go a long way to obviating the need to circle multiple blocks looking for parking spaces!
Only Indian Canyon will be two-way. Palm Canyon will remain one-way.
Now
that seems pointless; if the idea is to restore maximum flexibility in access to downtown businesses -- and for all intents & purposes through traffic now is avoiding downtown -- retaining one street as a single-direction limits block-by-block movement. I've seen situations where a main commercial street was two way, and
flanked by a one way couplet (pre-freeway, 4th Street in Sacramento was like that; 5th was one-way NB and 3rd one-way SB;both hosted old SSR 16 and SSR 24). Something like
that would be considerably more workable than a single unidirectional thoroughfare.
Quote from: sparker on January 09, 2020, 04:17:56 PM
I've seen situations where a main commercial street was two way, and flanked by a one way couplet (pre-freeway, 4th Street in Sacramento was like that; 5th was one-way NB and 3rd one-way SB;both hosted old SSR 16 and SSR 24). Something like that would be considerably more workable than a single unidirectional thoroughfare.
The example that comes to mind here from San Francisco is where US 101 runs on Van Ness Avenue; Franklin Street is the northbound parallel one-way street and Gough serves that purpose southbound. (Both also directly linked to the 1956-1989 northern segment of the Central Freeway, while Van Ness only directly intersects the Central Freeway at the border of the Mission and South Of Market districts) One block away, Polk Street is two-way and flanked with many restaurants and businesses too, with Hyde (southbound) and Larkin (northbound) as the parallel one-way streets up to about California Street.
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic. To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.
The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.
EDITED TO ADD:
I did a little more internet research on this to find out that the project is now complete. The design they chose leave PC as a 3 lane SB street, and converts IC to a 2-way street, with 2 lanes NB, 1 lane SB, and a left turn lane. While this is not what I would have done, I can see the wisdom of this. For all intents and purposes, especially for timing of the signals should local authorities so desire, you still have a 1-way couplet for traffic driving through. Yes, IC is now 2-way, so you have to watch out at left turns, but unless PC is closed for a street fair, there will be very little SB traffic on it. This configuration should help calm traffic and maintain on-street parking.
Anybody in the area should let us know their opinions, but in my mind this seems like a well thought out plan. Hopefully, it will achieve its goals.
After this, I believe PC should be narrowed in the area to 2 lanes instead of 3, but kept one-way SB.
Quote from: skluth on January 06, 2020, 12:43:07 PM
Palm Springs is converting Indian Canyon Road to two-way traffic this week. (https://kesq.com/news/2020/01/06/indian-canyon-two-way-conversion-project-underway-this-week/) They have been working on this for a couple months now and the final restriping the street and reconfiguring the stop lights will happen during the night over the next few days.
I normally wouldn't include a local road here, but Indian Canyon is one of the two main N-S streets through downtown. Up until this week, Palm Canyon has been southbound and Indian Canyon northbound. Indian Canyon is literally the only northbound through street through Palm Springs to I-10 from the V/Ace/Saguaro Hotel district west of Sunrise (I believe it's the original NB CA 111 routing), so it's usually busy. Palm Canyon will continue to be one-way SB, but Indian Canyon will be two-way by Friday. Be alert for these changes if you are familiar with driving through the Western Coachella Valley.
No apologies for including local road news. I tend to find the changes to local streets, even when I'm not familiar with them, to be even more interesting than changes to highways.
Quote from: mrsman on January 10, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic. To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.
The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.
I'd argue that traffic on Palm Canyon is already discouraged with all the currently present pedestrian features. Bottlenecking traffic further by way of reducing lanes would enhance what is already present on Palm Canyon.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 10, 2020, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: mrsman on January 10, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic. To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.
The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.
I'd argue that traffic on Palm Canyon is already discouraged with all the currently present pedestrian features. Bottlenecking traffic further by way of reducing lanes would enhance what is already present on Palm Canyon.
I agree. Palm Canyon is mostly stop-and-go as it is. I and many other locals often use Bellardo, the street west of PC, instead. You still hit all the stops, but at least it's just four way stops and not another light with a mass of pedestrians. PC is fine until Tahquitz Canyon, but it's usually quicker (and less aggravating) to jog a block over and take Bellardo until you get south of Tahquitz Creek itself.
Quote from: skluth on January 12, 2020, 08:53:23 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 10, 2020, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: mrsman on January 10, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic. To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.
The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.
I'd argue that traffic on Palm Canyon is already discouraged with all the currently present pedestrian features. Bottlenecking traffic further by way of reducing lanes would enhance what is already present on Palm Canyon.
I agree. Palm Canyon is mostly stop-and-go as it is. I and many other locals often use Bellardo, the street west of PC, instead. You still hit all the stops, but at least it's just four way stops and not another light with a mass of pedestrians. PC is fine until Tahquitz Canyon, but it's usually quicker (and less aggravating) to jog a block over and take Bellardo until you get south of Tahquitz Creek itself.
I seem to recall using Calle Encilla quite a bit for the same purpose on business trips. My hotel was located near Ramon Road and Indian Canyon which made access and egress kind of difficult if I stuck to then main roadways. When I went to go eat in downtown I usually would just walk to my destination rather than trying to find parking on a southward backtrack on Palm Canyon. With a two way configuration one would have an easier time trying to get parking facilities (of getting a second shot at them) in places like La Plaza.
Oh joy. I can't find any details, but it looks like a series of annoying little projects through the San Gorgonio Pass on I-10 is planned for the next 2-3 years (http://z1077fm.com/caltrans-begins-i-10-tune-up-construction-project-monday/). Because traffic through the pass doesn't suck enough already.
Text from article. Source: z1077fm.com, but it was also mentioned on KESQ TV in Palm Springs this morning.
Quote
CALTRANS BEGINS I-10 "TUNE-UP" CONSTRUCTION PROJECT MONDAY
Commuters who travel on Interstate 10 between Banning and Highway 111 in Palm Springs, brace yourselves for construction projects for the next two to three years. CalTrans has announced that preliminary work on the project, called the I-10 Tune-Up, will start Monday night, February 3. The paving operation will begin on eastbound I-10 and will include repaving lanes number 3 and 4, slab replacement in lanes number 1 and 2, upgrading various on- and off-ramps to make them ADA compliant, and upgrading the guardrail systems.
In addition, from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. on Tuesday and Wednesday, February 4-5, eastbound I-10 will experience lane and ramp closures from Fields Road to Main Street in Cabazon. Work will be done on the right shoulder, the number 4 lane, and the eastbound I-10 on-ramp from Morongo Trail.
To stay on top of roadwork, go to Caltrans District 8 and sign up for commuter alerts. To assist in planning your commute, view live traffic conditions and planned lane closures using the QuickMap link below.
http://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/
More on the previous post. The KESQ-3 Palm Springs now has an article on the I-10 project through the pass. Article here. (ftp://kesq.com/news/2020/02/05/caltrans-anounces-210-million-interstate-10-improvement-project/) Caltrans website shows the project timeline (https://i10tuneup.com/), but doesn't have the details contained in the news article.
Quote
Caltrans anounces $210 million Interstate 10 improvement project
Traffic was flowing smoothly on the 10 freeway Wednesday morning.
But, slow downs and possibly major backups could be happening over the next two to three years because of the $210 million "I-10 Tune Up" project announced at the CHP office in Beaumont.
"With the reduced speed limit and people paying attention and not driving distracted, and following the law we should be fine," said Caltrans spokesperson Terri Kasinga.
The improvements for the I-10 will cover a span of the highway running from the 60 freeway eastward to Highway 111.
A timeline shows work will be completed in three stages, and could take as long as two to three years.
The work on both bides will focus on medians, repaving the number three and four lanes, and "slab replacement" in lanes one and two.
"Will truck traffic and people driving at night see the construction work, yes and they might see some minor delays," said Kasinga.
Caltrans says most of the work will be completed during night-time hours with work stopping for weekends and holidays, and during major events like Coachella and the Stagecoach Country Music Festival.
Some initial stages of the work are already underway and more signifcant stages of the project are set to begin in March.
Caltrans and the CHP both have real concerns about the project on the 10.
If a major incident such as a car accident, wildfire or law enforcement situation occur, the traffic backup could turn into a nightmare scenario.
That's because of limited frontage roads in some areas along the ten where the work is being performed.
In some stretches of the freeway lanes will be reduced from 12 feet wide to eleven feet in width.
During some nighttime hours traffic will be reduced to one lane in each direction.
"There are parts of the 10 that there is no diversion, There is no side streets and there are no alternate routes and so our position is that we are going to clear the highway as fast as possible whether it be a minor traffic collision or a major incident," said CHP Commander Mike Alvarez.
The speed limit in the construction areas will be reduced to 60 miles an hour and Commander Alvarez says his officers will be peforming "aggressive enforcement".
Fines in the construction zone are also doubled.
Caltrans has set up a website and is offering a hot line for updated information on the project, including information on closures and traffic advisories.
Link: i10TuneUp.com
Hotline: (833) i10-TUNE (410)-8863
I know there's not much travel going on right now. But Palm Springs has completely closed a couple blocks of Palm Canyon Drive (https://www.palmspringsca.gov/government/departments/street-closure-information-planned-power-outages) through downtown for the rest of the year for restaurants to have outdoor dining, as indoor dining is not allowed for the time being. The closure has been in effect for a couple weeks, but it may actually be useful now that it's no longer 120° at sunset. Map of the affected area. (https://www.palmspringsca.gov/home/showdocument?id=76169)
There had been a closure every Thursday evening for Villagefest from Amado to Ramon until March. No word on when that might return.
Quote from: skluth on September 19, 2020, 02:16:54 PM
I know there's not much travel going on right now. But Palm Springs has completely closed a couple blocks of Palm Canyon Drive (https://www.palmspringsca.gov/government/departments/street-closure-information-planned-power-outages) through downtown for the rest of the year for restaurants to have outdoor dining, as indoor dining is not allowed for the time being. The closure has been in effect for a couple weeks, but it may actually be useful now that it's no longer 120° at sunset. Map of the affected area. (https://www.palmspringsca.gov/home/showdocument?id=76169)
There had been a closure every Thursday evening for Villagefest from Amado to Ramon until March. No word on when that might return.
Seems to make sense and it seems to be in concert with minimizing traffic on Palm Canyon anyway. If they followed my idea that I posted in January, to localize PC then doing something like this makes total sense. It would make some sense to make the arrangement permanent, divert all thru traffic to Indian Canyoun and let Palm Canyon be a completely localized business oriented street. Close it or parts of it to cars to encourage more al fresco dining. Divert all traffic to Indian Canyon or to encourage traffic to take the new routing for CA-111.
Quote from: mrsman on January 10, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
It seems to me that it would be best to direct thru traffic over to the 2-way Indian Canyon and leave Palm Canyon as a 2-way street that discourages thru traffic. To the extent feasible, traffic should be minimized on PC, perhaps with the addition of bike lanes and the like.
The final block south of Ramon, of PC should probably still be one-way southbound, in order to not create conflicts at the 5-way intersection at Cam. Parocela.
EDITED TO ADD:
I did a little more internet research on this to find out that the project is now complete. The design they chose leave PC as a 3 lane SB street, and converts IC to a 2-way street, with 2 lanes NB, 1 lane SB, and a left turn lane. While this is not what I would have done, I can see the wisdom of this. For all intents and purposes, especially for timing of the signals should local authorities so desire, you still have a 1-way couplet for traffic driving through. Yes, IC is now 2-way, so you have to watch out at left turns, but unless PC is closed for a street fair, there will be very little SB traffic on it. This configuration should help calm traffic and maintain on-street parking.
Anybody in the area should let us know their opinions, but in my mind this seems like a well thought out plan. Hopefully, it will achieve its goals.
After this, I believe PC should be narrowed in the area to 2 lanes instead of 3, but kept one-way SB.
Bump thanks to lots of road closures from local flooding. The following are currently closed (https://kesq.com/news/2021/12/24/road-closures-remain-in-effect-across-coachella-valley-2/).
- Indian Canyon from Tramview to Palm Springs Station Road (just south of I-10)
- Gene Autry from Interstate 10 to east Via Escuela
- Araby Dr through the wash area
- Vista Chino from Gene Autry to Cathedral City Limits.
- Elm Street from Bonita Ave to Adele Ave in Cabazon.
- Seminole Drive east of Morongo Casino to Main Street.
Both Indian Canyon and Gene Autry being closed means the only way into Palm Springs from I-10 is via CA 111 unless you come in using a roundabout way from the east via Ramon and streets further south. The holidays could mean these roads will be closed for a few days.
There are also problems around Yucaipa with mudflows in the burn scars from last year's El Dorado fire (the one in a city park started by an idiot for a baby gender reveal).
Is the flooding due to a lack of preparation for rain in general in the Coachella Valley? It seems as if a lot of road mileage in the area is closed.
Quote from: RZF on December 26, 2021, 08:26:01 PM
Is the flooding due to a lack of preparation for rain in general in the Coachella Valley? It seems as if a lot of road mileage in the area is closed.
In desert regions it is common for roads to be designed to not handle 20-100 year flood events. When you think about it makes sense since the features needed to act as mitigation are objectively a bad cost/benefit investment. Example; it is common to see things like concrete fords of flood zones in most desert as opposed to a proper bridge.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2021, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: RZF on December 26, 2021, 08:26:01 PM
Is the flooding due to a lack of preparation for rain in general in the Coachella Valley? It seems as if a lot of road mileage in the area is closed.
In desert regions it is common for roads to be designed to not handle 20-100 year flood events. When you think about it makes sense since the features needed to act as mitigation are objectively a bad cost/benefit investment. Example; it is common to see things like concrete fords of flood zones in most desert as opposed to a proper bridge.
Many local roads are built in the washes. It's not normally a problem when it rains, just when we get a lot of rain. A couple inches of rain were reported in the pass from this storm which is massive for the area. Vista Chino Bridge construction is expected to start soon and is budgeted for $95M; it will cross about 2300' over the normally dry Whitewater River. To build similar bridges over the Whitewater River Wash on Indian Canyon and Gene Autry would require over 1.5 miles of bridge for each. The current Palm Springs mayor is pushing for a bridge on Indian Canyon, the main road from I-10 to Desert Regional Hospital and the Palm Springs CBD.
It's far more common for roads here to be blocked by blowing sand over roads from the winds which blow through the pass. That happens at least a half dozen times every year.
Quote
I-10 Delays This Week Between Beaumont, Coachella Valley (https://patch.com/california/banning-beaumont/i-10-delays-week-between-beaumont-coachella-valley)
BEAUMONT, CA – Nighttime road work and associated lane and ramp closures are scheduled to continue this week along Interstate 10 between Beaumont and the Coachella Valley.
Crews have been gradually making improvements to nearly 20 miles of freeway between Beaumont and Highway 111 near Palm Springs as part of the I-10 Pavement Rehabilitation Project, also called the I-10 Tune-Up, for more than a year and a half.
Alternating lane and ramp closures that started Sunday will continue through Thursday from 7 p.m. to 6 a.m. each day westbound along the entire length of the project and eastbound between Beaumont and Banning.
The eastbound Sunset Avenue off-ramp that closed Thursday will reopen on Sunday. Caltrans recommends the use of Highland Springs Avenue, Beaumont Avenue or 22 Street as detours.
No weekday lane closures are planned during daytime hours, though crews will continue working during the day at various points along the thoroughfare this week.
The I-10 Tune-Up includes replacing guardrails, repaving outside lanes and replacing slabs in inside lanes and upgrading various on- and off-ramps to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
The $210 million project is primarily funded by the state gas tax and the remainder through federal funds as well as some funding from the state, according to Caltrans.
Work is scheduled to be completed by the end of 2022.
Caltrans has set up a website for project-specific updates at i10tuneup.com (http://i10tuneup.com).
The new 66th Avenue viaduct over the Union Pacific railroad tracks in Mecca will open next Monday (https://kesq.com/news/2022/03/12/new-avenue-66-bridge-in-mecca-to-improve-safety-and-traffic/). It can be seen under construction in the current Google Maps imagery (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5693642,-116.0789439,1253m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). It's much needed as long trains frequently delay traffic going in and out of the community, including emergency vehicles. Very happy to see this being opened.
Too bad it never got any of those improvements when it was CA 195.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on March 13, 2022, 02:15:18 PM
Too bad it never got any of those improvements when it was CA 195.
Or when it was US 60-70. There is a surprising amount of highway corridors that ran through Mecca and Box Canyon.
Since CA-111 had been recently rerouted onto 66th Ave to end at CA-86, I wonder if they're actually going to put signage for it at two intersections now. Or if they'll just let people figure it out with their smart phones. Caltrans seems to get more and more lax about route signs with each passing year.
Quote from: skluth on March 12, 2022, 07:14:24 PM
The new 66th Avenue viaduct over the Union Pacific railroad tracks in Mecca will open next Monday (https://kesq.com/news/2022/03/12/new-avenue-66-bridge-in-mecca-to-improve-safety-and-traffic/). It can be seen under construction in the current Google Maps imagery (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5693642,-116.0789439,1253m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). It's much needed as long trains frequently delay traffic going in and out of the community, including emergency vehicles. Very happy to see this being opened.
I used to work in that area about ten years ago, the train crossings all along Grapefruit Boulevard drove me mad.
Is there any hope the 111 will be expanded to be a consistent three lanes each way from south Palm Springs to at least Coachella? The number of lanes is so inconsistent and I think at least part of that is the reason behind the aggressive driving I've observed on that road. People always drive recklessly on the six lane portions to pass everyone before it narrows back to 4 lanes.
Seems to me then the road should be narrowed to four lanes. If there's too much traffic congestion that would be created as a result then the entire thing is warranted for six lanes. I drive this road fairly regularly and see how bad the traffic can get in certain spots especially in between cathedral city and rancho mirage.
Considering how much of 111 is relinquished, no.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 07, 2023, 06:27:00 PM
Is there any hope the 111 will be expanded to be a consistent three lanes each way from south Palm Springs to at least Coachella? The number of lanes is so inconsistent and I think at least part of that is the reason behind the aggressive driving I've observed on that road. People always drive recklessly on the six lane portions to pass everyone before it narrows back to 4 lanes.
Seems to me then the road should be narrowed to four lanes. If there's too much traffic congestion that would be created as a result then the entire thing is warranted for six lanes. I drive this road fairly regularly and see how bad the traffic can get in certain spots especially in between cathedral city and rancho mirage.
Highly doubtful. Most of 111 through the valley has been relinquished by the state except for in Palm Springs and Coachella, so it would be up to the cities to collectively do so. I don't think it's that slow and overcrowded except going through Cathedral City, both downtown and by the Target/ Trader Joe's. I usually use other streets to go east-west. Dinah Shore is pretty good going from Palm Springs to Palm Desert, Gerald Ford moves even better but only goes from CC to Palm Desert, Country Club is great from Rancho Mirage to Bermuda Dunes, and Fred Waring moves through Palm Desert to Indio far faster than 111 while only about a half mile to the north. The fastest way between downtown Palm Springs and El Paseo in Palm Desert is to take Ramon to I-10 then take the first exit (Monterrey) south to El Paseo. Taking 111 is for tourists.
111 should still be improved regardless, IMO. I wasn't aware that much of it has been relinquished.
Quote from: pderocco on March 19, 2022, 01:36:30 AM
Since CA-111 had been recently rerouted onto 66th Ave to end at CA-86, I wonder if they're actually going to put signage for it at two intersections now. Or if they'll just let people figure it out with their smart phones. Caltrans seems to get more and more lax about route signs with each passing year.
Drove it today. They have posted all the mast arm blades to show 111 leaving Grapefruit Blvd at Lincoln Street, going southwest to 66th Ave, and turning west on 66th Ave to CA 86. Further there is signage on 66th Ave at the intersection with 86 showing that 111 north is concurrent with 86 north.
Edit: I forgot, there are also reassurance shields for a 86/111 concurrence on the expressway north of 66th Ave. Here's a pic I took:(https://i.imgur.com/aZ6Kntd.jpg)
Amusingly CA 111 is listed on the 66th Avenue street blade:
https://flic.kr/p/2hoLGAo
And signage directing 111 traffic onto 66th from Mecca did exist in 2019:
https://flic.kr/p/2hoLGFU
Also, on 66th Avenue heading west from Grapefruit Ave to 86, there is a 111 south reassurance shield posted. It should be posted as 111 north.
(https://i.imgur.com/EAUgsrX.jpg)
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on June 29, 2023, 02:12:46 AM
Quote from: pderocco on March 19, 2022, 01:36:30 AM
Since CA-111 had been recently rerouted onto 66th Ave to end at CA-86, I wonder if they're actually going to put signage for it at two intersections now. Or if they'll just let people figure it out with their smart phones. Caltrans seems to get more and more lax about route signs with each passing year.
Drove it today. They have posted all the mast arm blades to show 111 leaving Grapefruit Blvd at Lincoln Street, going southwest to 66th Ave, and turning west on 66th Ave to CA 86. Further there is signage on 66th Ave at the intersection with 86 showing that 111 north is concurrent with 86 north.
Edit: I forgot, there are also reassurance shields for a 86/111 concurrence on the expressway north of 66th Ave. Here's a pic I took:
(https://i.imgur.com/aZ6Kntd.jpg)
I don't get it. I thought this southern part was supposed to end at the intersection of 66th and CA-86.
The relinquishment agreements stipulate continuation signage from the Caltrans maintained segments. That's why Caltrans still signs the multiplex on 86. Granted, I know this isn't really honored by the Coachella Valley cities 111 was relinquished to.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 02, 2023, 09:16:51 AM
The relinquishment agreements stipulate continuation signage from the Caltrans maintained segments. That's why Caltrans still signs the multiplex on 86. Granted, I know this isn't really honored by the Coachella Valley cities 111 was relinquished to.
How often do these relinquished segments get signed with "TO" prefixes? The only one I can think of off-hand is the former route 1 in southern Santa Monica, where they actually added "TO" signs above each route sign along Lincoln Blvd. Seems like a stupid waste of time.
Quote from: pderocco on July 02, 2023, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 02, 2023, 09:16:51 AM
The relinquishment agreements stipulate continuation signage from the Caltrans maintained segments. That's why Caltrans still signs the multiplex on 86. Granted, I know this isn't really honored by the Coachella Valley cities 111 was relinquished to.
How often do these relinquished segments get signed with "TO" prefixes? The only one I can think of off-hand is the former route 1 in southern Santa Monica, where they actually added "TO" signs above each route sign along Lincoln Blvd. Seems like a stupid waste of time.
Off the top of my head TO CA 178 is signed from CA 99 east towards CA 204. Some others like CA 187 effectively are still signed despite being fully relinquished.