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A Little More Remote Work Could Change Rush Hour a Lot

Started by cpzilliacus, June 12, 2021, 07:49:07 AM

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JoePCool14

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.
Working together in-person with others does tend to make it easier though. I had several group projects this past semester, and the ones where I was able to actually meet with my group at the library at least partially turned out better.

Virtual collaboration can be done, especially if those engaging in it are prepared with dual monitors, good microphones, and good Internet, but again it's just not ideal. It's more of a backup when meeting is not possible.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged


Rothman

Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 14, 2021, 05:31:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.
Working together in-person with others does tend to make it easier though. I had several group projects this past semester, and the ones where I was able to actually meet with my group at the library at least partially turned out better.

Virtual collaboration can be done, especially if those engaging in it are prepared with dual monitors, good microphones, and good Internet, but again it's just not ideal. It's more of a backup when meeting is not possible.
One collaborative project does not necessitate people being together 8 hours a day, five days a week.

Have no problem with coming into the office when it would be more efficient to get a project done or two.  But, people whining about social interaction is starting to grate on me.  Go get your own friends instead of forcing me to come into the office so you can satisfy a need for attention.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

GaryV

Given the conditions that they are talking about for my company, I'd rather stay WFH.  Even though the commute to the office is only 8-10 minutes.

- Hybrid model (part onsite, part WFH)
- No fixed location in the office - you "reserve" a "hotel" desk.
- Daily app check-in at home before going to work for COVID screening (typical "have you ever coughed" questions and temp check - are they going to give me a thermometer?), and then check in again once you arrive (please plan to arrive early to accommodate)
- Wear a mask whenever you are not in your cubicle

No thank you.  I'll collaborate online.

formulanone

#28
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 08:05:24 AM
Quote from: GaryV on June 13, 2021, 06:55:26 AM
Does Captain Obvious work for the NYT now?

It doesn't take much of a genius to figure out that if less people are going in to work, traffic will be lighter.



I think projections that this will have a significant impact on traffic are going to look pretty back in five years.

...probably all offset by all the delivery drivers, freight trucks, and task-runners who cannot literally work from home.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
...that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.

May I borrow this line? I encounter some people who really need to hear that bit of advice.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2021, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.
Not if one member is an unwilling participant.

Well then they won't be working for me for long.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.

Rothman

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.
Yep, you've got some staff that needs babysitting.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kalvado

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2021, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.
Not if one member is an unwilling participant.

Well then they won't be working for me for long.
Good luck with getting your team running in current labor situation, though.
Did you consider making ties mandatory part of office dress code as well?
Things are changing, and more remote may become an expected part of office operations.
Of course, assembly line folks have to be on site - but that not is the job that requires creativity, though. 

SEWIGuy

Quote from: kalvado on June 14, 2021, 11:22:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2021, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.
Not if one member is an unwilling participant.

Well then they won't be working for me for long.
Good luck with getting your team running in current labor situation, though.
Did you consider making ties mandatory part of office dress code as well?
Things are changing, and more remote may become an expected part of office operations.
Of course, assembly line folks have to be on site - but that not is the job that requires creativity, though. 



My team is fine.  We have no dress code.  And I am expecting remote to an exception not the rule. 

And if people want to work full remote, they can work elsewhere.  The requirement to work almost entirely on-site has not hindered any of the searches we have had recently.

Rothman

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:27:05 AM
Quote from: kalvado on June 14, 2021, 11:22:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2021, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.
Not if one member is an unwilling participant.

Well then they won't be working for me for long.
Good luck with getting your team running in current labor situation, though.
Did you consider making ties mandatory part of office dress code as well?
Things are changing, and more remote may become an expected part of office operations.
Of course, assembly line folks have to be on site - but that not is the job that requires creativity, though. 



My team is fine.  We have no dress code.  And I am expecting remote to an exception not the rule. 

And if people want to work full remote, they can work elsewhere.  The requirement to work almost entirely on-site has not hindered any of the searches we have had recently.
So, as long as you can hire someone, your team is fine.

We are back into tripping hazard standards again.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:30:34 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:27:05 AM
Quote from: kalvado on June 14, 2021, 11:22:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2021, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.
Not if one member is an unwilling participant.

Well then they won't be working for me for long.
Good luck with getting your team running in current labor situation, though.
Did you consider making ties mandatory part of office dress code as well?
Things are changing, and more remote may become an expected part of office operations.
Of course, assembly line folks have to be on site - but that not is the job that requires creativity, though. 



My team is fine.  We have no dress code.  And I am expecting remote to an exception not the rule. 

And if people want to work full remote, they can work elsewhere.  The requirement to work almost entirely on-site has not hindered any of the searches we have had recently.
So, as long as you can hire someone, your team is fine.

We are back into tripping hazard standards again.


No you aren't understanding my point.  We largely require people to work here.  The vast majority of people who work here, want to work in person.  If you don't want to do that, this probably is not the best place for you to be.

kalvado

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 12:25:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:30:34 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:27:05 AM
Quote from: kalvado on June 14, 2021, 11:22:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2021, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.
Not if one member is an unwilling participant.

Well then they won't be working for me for long.
Good luck with getting your team running in current labor situation, though.
Did you consider making ties mandatory part of office dress code as well?
Things are changing, and more remote may become an expected part of office operations.
Of course, assembly line folks have to be on site - but that not is the job that requires creativity, though. 



My team is fine.  We have no dress code.  And I am expecting remote to an exception not the rule. 

And if people want to work full remote, they can work elsewhere.  The requirement to work almost entirely on-site has not hindered any of the searches we have had recently.
So, as long as you can hire someone, your team is fine.

We are back into tripping hazard standards again.


No you aren't understanding my point.  We largely require people to work here.  The vast majority of people who work here, want to work in person.  If you don't want to do that, this probably is not the best place for you to be.
There are certainly in-person only jobs. There are situations. where in-person is not required, but beneficial. Or acceptable.
There are certainly people who prefer one or the other.

It is hard to tell without knowing exactly what this is about. 
Point is, everyone may benefit from more flexibility. Once anyone switches to rigid rules - one way or the other, one side or the other -  things may backfire at some point. The best course of action is to keep eyes open and look at the situation beyond simple "yes" and "no". ANthing new about that, though?

vdeane

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 13, 2021, 10:39:55 PM
Early on in the pandemic, I realized that this was probably going to be for the long-haul.  I bought myself 2 monitors to hook up to my laptop so I would have a home set-up as if I was in the office. It was $210 well spent.  I know not everyone had the means to do this, but many people figured if work won't provide them with the tools to work, then they weren't going to bother.  These people put themselves in a situation where helping themselves and spending just a few dollars would've been beneficial for the next year (and longer, at this point).
In my case, buying monitors wouldn't help.  My work computer is a desktop that on WFH days I need to access with a remote connection, either the Pulse Secure remote desktop, back when it still supported my (ancient, used only for this) Windows 7 laptop, or via the VMware Horizon VDI in browser.  As in both cases the remote connection is a window, I'd still only have one monitor available for my work computer.  Not that I have room for a second monitor on my desk anyways.  My desk dates back from the 2000s when such was not common, and between the raised platforms on the sides and the cabinets on top, I only have room for one.  I was going to try putting a second in close at an angle when I got my current desktop at home, but when I realized how much more problematic that was than I thought, I abandoned the idea and the monitor I bought became a replacement for the old one rather than a supplement.  I'd love to replace the desk, for more reasons than just that, but I'd not only need to figure out where to put all the stuff that's up top, I'd also need to figure out how to assemble the new desk and get the old desk out of my apartment on my own, as I have nobody to help.  My combined living room/office doesn't really have a ton of extra space, either.

Newer computers issued at work tend to be laptops for this reason, so maybe it will get easier in the future.  That said, my desktop was issued in January 2020, so it might be a while.

Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.
Yep, you've got some staff that needs babysitting.
Now you're starting to remind me of the manager here who used to talk about "hard planning" and "soft planning".  Some jobs are just more spontaneous/collaborative.  And it's often easier to just ask someone something rather than send an email.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

cpzilliacus

Getting back to the original article, I think that there will be significant telework for the indefinite future.  Teleworking may impact transit more than highway commuting (at the TRB Annual Meeting in January, there were some presenters that predicted that transit has permanently lost about 1/3 of its pre-COVD19 ridership. 

Long-range transportation plans should probably include telework as a mode of transportation (and one that has little or no tailpipe emissions associated with it).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.
Yep, you've got some staff that needs babysitting.

Nope.  Good lord you are close-mided.



Quote from: vdeane on June 14, 2021, 01:32:47 PMSome jobs are just more spontaneous/collaborative.  And it's often easier to just ask someone something rather than send an email.

Yep.

Scott5114

Quote from: formulanone on June 14, 2021, 08:20:23 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
...that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.

May I borrow this line? I encounter some people who really need to hear that bit of advice.

Go for it, I shamelessly stole it from elsewhere on the internet anyway. :-D
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

bing101

Quote from: vdeane on June 14, 2021, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 13, 2021, 10:39:55 PM
Early on in the pandemic, I realized that this was probably going to be for the long-haul.  I bought myself 2 monitors to hook up to my laptop so I would have a home set-up as if I was in the office. It was $210 well spent.  I know not everyone had the means to do this, but many people figured if work won't provide them with the tools to work, then they weren't going to bother.  These people put themselves in a situation where helping themselves and spending just a few dollars would've been beneficial for the next year (and longer, at this point).
In my case, buying monitors wouldn't help.  My work computer is a desktop that on WFH days I need to access with a remote connection, either the Pulse Secure remote desktop, back when it still supported my (ancient, used only for this) Windows 7 laptop, or via the VMware Horizon VDI in browser.  As in both cases the remote connection is a window, I'd still only have one monitor available for my work computer.  Not that I have room for a second monitor on my desk anyways.  My desk dates back from the 2000s when such was not common, and between the raised platforms on the sides and the cabinets on top, I only have room for one.  I was going to try putting a second in close at an angle when I got my current desktop at home, but when I realized how much more problematic that was than I thought, I abandoned the idea and the monitor I bought became a replacement for the old one rather than a supplement.  I'd love to replace the desk, for more reasons than just that, but I'd not only need to figure out where to put all the stuff that's up top, I'd also need to figure out how to assemble the new desk and get the old desk out of my apartment on my own, as I have nobody to help.  My combined living room/office doesn't really have a ton of extra space, either.

Newer computers issued at work tend to be laptops for this reason, so maybe it will get easier in the future.  That said, my desktop was issued in January 2020, so it might be a while.

Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.
Yep, you've got some staff that needs babysitting.
Now you're starting to remind me of the manager here who used to talk about "hard planning" and "soft planning".  Some jobs are just more spontaneous/collaborative.  And it's often easier to just ask someone something rather than send an email.
True unless you are mainly a novel writer, blogger or a host on Twitch and YouTube at least some jobs need to be on site.

3467

Previous comment on delivery drivers. NBC has a story on that last night. Online shopping is also here to stay. It's about a third of non car non grocery retail now.
And the delivery trucks seem to add to the afternoon bump.

Rothman

Quote from: vdeane on June 14, 2021, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 13, 2021, 10:39:55 PM
Early on in the pandemic, I realized that this was probably going to be for the long-haul.  I bought myself 2 monitors to hook up to my laptop so I would have a home set-up as if I was in the office. It was $210 well spent.  I know not everyone had the means to do this, but many people figured if work won't provide them with the tools to work, then they weren't going to bother.  These people put themselves in a situation where helping themselves and spending just a few dollars would've been beneficial for the next year (and longer, at this point).
In my case, buying monitors wouldn't help.  My work computer is a desktop that on WFH days I need to access with a remote connection, either the Pulse Secure remote desktop, back when it still supported my (ancient, used only for this) Windows 7 laptop, or via the VMware Horizon VDI in browser.  As in both cases the remote connection is a window, I'd still only have one monitor available for my work computer.  Not that I have room for a second monitor on my desk anyways.  My desk dates back from the 2000s when such was not common, and between the raised platforms on the sides and the cabinets on top, I only have room for one.  I was going to try putting a second in close at an angle when I got my current desktop at home, but when I realized how much more problematic that was than I thought, I abandoned the idea and the monitor I bought became a replacement for the old one rather than a supplement.  I'd love to replace the desk, for more reasons than just that, but I'd not only need to figure out where to put all the stuff that's up top, I'd also need to figure out how to assemble the new desk and get the old desk out of my apartment on my own, as I have nobody to help.  My combined living room/office doesn't really have a ton of extra space, either.

Newer computers issued at work tend to be laptops for this reason, so maybe it will get easier in the future.  That said, my desktop was issued in January 2020, so it might be a while.

Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.
Yep, you've got some staff that needs babysitting.
Now you're starting to remind me of the manager here who used to talk about "hard planning" and "soft planning".  Some jobs are just more spontaneous/collaborative.  And it's often easier to just ask someone something rather than send an email.
There is a way to get the Pulse window to spread across two monitors.  It involves setting up a new session link with different parameters than the default.

Too bad we are almost done WFH...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Rothman



Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 02:14:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.
Yep, you've got some staff that needs babysitting.

Nope.  Good lord you are close-mided.


Nah.  Just calling them as I see 'em.  I know management euphemisms when I see them.  "We need to be collaborative and cooperative and therefore need to be in-person where it works better" = "Some of you don't work as well remotely and ruin it for the rest of us."

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

74/171FAN

QuoteNah.  Just calling them as I see 'em.  I know management euphemisms when I see them.  "We need to be collaborative and cooperative and therefore need to be in-person where it works better" = "Some of you don't work as well remotely and ruin it for the rest of us."

I agree with you completely Rothman.  I probably have worked better at home than in the office because it was much easier for me to deal with the noise once I bought my own headphones and started listening to videos throughout the day.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Scott5114

Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 05:25:46 PM


Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 02:14:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.
Yep, you've got some staff that needs babysitting.

Nope.  Good lord you are close-mided.


Nah.  Just calling them as I see 'em.  I know management euphemisms when I see them.  "We need to be collaborative and cooperative and therefore need to be in-person where it works better" = "Some of you don't work as well remotely and ruin it for the rest of us."

Or, more cynically, "I feel insecure about my abilities as a manager if I only have a finished product to judge performance on and can't spy on people to criticize how they're working."
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

vdeane

Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 05:22:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 14, 2021, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 13, 2021, 10:39:55 PM
Early on in the pandemic, I realized that this was probably going to be for the long-haul.  I bought myself 2 monitors to hook up to my laptop so I would have a home set-up as if I was in the office. It was $210 well spent.  I know not everyone had the means to do this, but many people figured if work won't provide them with the tools to work, then they weren't going to bother.  These people put themselves in a situation where helping themselves and spending just a few dollars would've been beneficial for the next year (and longer, at this point).
In my case, buying monitors wouldn't help.  My work computer is a desktop that on WFH days I need to access with a remote connection, either the Pulse Secure remote desktop, back when it still supported my (ancient, used only for this) Windows 7 laptop, or via the VMware Horizon VDI in browser.  As in both cases the remote connection is a window, I'd still only have one monitor available for my work computer.  Not that I have room for a second monitor on my desk anyways.  My desk dates back from the 2000s when such was not common, and between the raised platforms on the sides and the cabinets on top, I only have room for one.  I was going to try putting a second in close at an angle when I got my current desktop at home, but when I realized how much more problematic that was than I thought, I abandoned the idea and the monitor I bought became a replacement for the old one rather than a supplement.  I'd love to replace the desk, for more reasons than just that, but I'd not only need to figure out where to put all the stuff that's up top, I'd also need to figure out how to assemble the new desk and get the old desk out of my apartment on my own, as I have nobody to help.  My combined living room/office doesn't really have a ton of extra space, either.

Newer computers issued at work tend to be laptops for this reason, so maybe it will get easier in the future.  That said, my desktop was issued in January 2020, so it might be a while.

Quote from: Rothman on June 14, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.


I am in an industry that requires creativity and communication throughout the day.  We are much better in person.  I think it's cute that you know how to do my job.
Yep, you've got some staff that needs babysitting.
Now you're starting to remind me of the manager here who used to talk about "hard planning" and "soft planning".  Some jobs are just more spontaneous/collaborative.  And it's often easier to just ask someone something rather than send an email.
There is a way to get the Pulse window to spread across two monitors.  It involves setting up a new session link with different parameters than the default.

Too bad we are almost done WFH...
Interesting.  Too bad they stopped supporting Windows 7; I don't have Windows 10 at home (my main desktop and laptop are both Linux, and the ancient laptop with Windows 7 is dying anyways).  Or the space on my desk, for that matter (I really should replace it one of these days...).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kphoger

Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 13, 2021, 02:00:55 PM

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:14:55 AM
The type of work that should be judged by the hour will always be done in person.  People who can work from home should by and large be salaried. 

That depends on what they are doing.  For example, call center employees can work at home if they have good telephone and Internet connections.

Yep.  Even though I can theoretically work from home (and did for seven weeks back in March-May of last year), I'm still expected to answer the phone, respond to e-mails, and such during specific hours.  There are also tasks that have to be done by a certain time on a certain day.  In short, the reasons for my having fixed work hours didn't magically go away just because I was working from home instead of my office.

And yeah, think about call center agents (with whom I interact occasionally at work).  Their shifts are determined by expected call volumes, which don't magically change just because they're working from home instead of the office.  A lot of people can't just decide to do their work at whatever hour suits them, for a variety of reasons.

Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 14, 2021, 05:31:33 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2021, 10:49:30 PM

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM

Quote from: Rothman on June 13, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
I have no objection to those who want to be in the office.  Just don't drag me in with you just because you want social interaction.

No but I will drag you there because I believe a sense of place benefits teamwork.

If you can't work together without being physically in the same room as someone you're a pretty piss-poor team to begin with. Or at least, you're admitting you're worse at teamwork than your average Wikipedian, or Linus Torvalds, and that bar is so low it's a tripping hazard.

Working together in-person with others does tend to make it easier though. I had several group projects this past semester, and the ones where I was able to actually meet with my group at the library at least partially turned out better.

Virtual collaboration can be done, especially if those engaging in it are prepared with dual monitors, good microphones, and good Internet, but again it's just not ideal. It's more of a backup when meeting is not possible.

So true.  Being trained to do a new task without being together in person is so much harder–at least at my job.  It's much easier to just point at something with your finger, read what notes your trainee is writing down to see if there's any confusion, switch places at the keyboard every so often...

Quote from: vdeane on June 14, 2021, 01:32:47 PM
In my case, buying monitors wouldn't help.  My work computer is a desktop that on WFH days I need to access with a remote connection, either the Pulse Secure remote desktop, back when it still supported my (ancient, used only for this) Windows 7 laptop, or via the VMware Horizon VDI in browser.  As in both cases the remote connection is a window, I'd still only have one monitor available for my work computer.  Not that I have room for a second monitor on my desk anyways.

When I worked from home, the CEO of the company delivered all the components to me in a box on my front porch (tower, dual monitors, keyboard, mouse, speakers, cables).  Every day, I use two different MFA VPN connections (GlobalProtect and one powered by Citrix), and once or twice a week I launch a virtual desktop.

I have a co-worker who has a similar situation to yours:  when working from home, he has to remotely access his work computer.  That means that, if there's an issue with his work computer, he has to get in the car and drive to the office to fix it–having to figure out a way to get in the secure building if his access card isn't set up to grant access on that day and the others in his department are also working from home.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2021, 12:25:38 PM
No you aren't understanding my point.  We largely require people to work here.  The vast majority of people who work here, want to work in person.  If you don't want to do that, this probably is not the best place for you to be.

Your point seems to be that people "want" to work there.  Being that you are pretty open to saying "If you don't want to be here, work elsewhere", your staff is probably not very open to telling you the truth if they truly want to work in the office or at home.

And when offices operate like that, chances are the staff isn't very open about other things.



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