Continuing from the "I98 - Saint Ignace, MI - Seattle, WA" thread, I was thinking, what upgrades could be done to the highways in the Upper Peninsula to facilitate better travel throughout the region? While an interstate may not be necessary, I would still think that there should be some highway upgrades across the board, including the upgrade of US 2 and M-28 to four lanes throughout, as well as easing the travel between all the highways. I was thinking that we could start by upgrading US 141 between Covington and Crystal Falls, US 41 between Marquette and Rapid River, as well as the entire route of M-117. We could also change the intersections connecting all these highways together, and maybe constructing a few bypasses to create these better intersections.
Another reason why I made this thread (that would certainly make the previous thread off-topic), is because I'm wondering: are the routings of US 141 and 41 really necessary? Why does US 41 have to curve out west from Marquette before going all the way to Copper Harbor? I was thinking that it could either stop at Marquette or turn west at Powers and then take the route of 141 until it reaches the current intersection with 41. I'm also wondering, if US 41 intersections with M-35 at Escanaba, then why isn't M-35 the main route of 41?
Here's the original thread:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23425.0
US 41 was intended to follow a more direct route to Marquette north of US 2, but that was never constructed. As for US 41 west of Marquette, don't dismiss the link between Houghton and Marquette, 2 of the biggest cities in the UP.
Here's more info on the road never built:
http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/US-041.html
Quote from: peterj920 on August 13, 2018, 03:08:35 AM
US 41 was intended to follow a more direct route to Marquette north of US 2, but that was never constructed. As for US 41 west of Marquette, don't dismiss the link between Houghton and Marquette, 2 of the biggest cities in the UP.
Here's more info on the road never built:
http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/US-041.html
Plus the further back you go in Time the more important those mines on Keweenaw were. Back when the US Route system was created Houghton County had about 80,000 residents and Keweenaw County had triple the population it does today. The terminus of US 41 makes sense given it essentially ends at a roundabout at a state park.
Upgrades?
More four-lane passing sections, maybe every five miles or so for a mile, so one can pass the logging trucks and pass the FIBs and Cheeseheads who don't quite grasp that 70 is usually OK.
Here's my response (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23425.msg2348923#msg2348923) in the above-mentioned thread.
In short, nothing that isn't already 4 lanes needs to be 4 lanes. Agree with Brandon about occasional passing lanes, but you don't really need any more than that. There are many segments (some quite lengthy) of both US 2 and MI 28 that don't even see 2,000 vehicles a day. 4 lanes would be outright wasted on such segments, and you'd even be hard pressed to justify passing lanes with that little traffic.
A joint project between MDOT and WisDOT to build a US 41 freeway bypass of Marinette, WI and Menominee, MI.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 13, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
A joint project between MDOT and WisDOT to build a US 41 freeway bypass of Marinette, WI and Menominee, MI.
Mike
I don't really agree with this need, and certainly I don't think a full freeway is needed when an expressway would be more than good enough. They're two decaying, dying cities not on the way to anywhere.
Quote from: Brandon on August 13, 2018, 08:22:27 AM
Upgrades?
More four-lane passing sections, maybe every five miles or so for a mile, so one can pass the logging trucks and pass the FIBs and Cheeseheads who don't quite grasp that 70 is usually OK.
And the RV's.
Maybe not every road needs a passing lane every 5 miles, but it sure would be nice on the US-2 and M-28 east of US-41, and on US-41 itself. West of that, it would be nice to have passing lanes every so often - some roads don't have any at all.
Now, how do you get the guy who you were following at 62 mph to not speed up to 70+ when he gets to the 4-lane stretch and he feels "safer" so he can go faster?
I could support strategic 4-laning across the U.P.:
- US-2 between Iron Mountain and St. Ignace
- US-41 between Calumet and Marinette
Those two alignments have the majority of heavy truck traffic and the most passenger car traffic. These will also have the highest amount of seasonal traffic swings; the AADT easily doubles on fair-weather weekends and when Michigan Tech and Northern Michigan University students are leaving and returning during breaks.
Additional passing lanes on US-141 and M-95 would be welcome. It's pretty well covered elsewhere.
Like I said in the I-98 post, US-2 and M-28 both have their lowest traffic counts basically in the same part of the state near Wakefield in the far western U.P. I know there is no need for four lanes in this area. I also mentioned that I-75 could be downsized and still function fine and I believe that because the traffic counts on I-75 in the U.P. dip as low as 3,200 daily; there are two lane highways with higher traffic counts than that.
Please take the fictional back to the fictional board you will see a lock on this thread.
What does everyone think of the merits of rerouting US 41 over M-35 between Menominee and Escanaba? It is shorter.
But is there utility in US 41 serving those tiny towns between Menominee and Powers?
We know the reason why US 41 went straight north, but long before then, so did the railroad. Clearly, the coast of Green Bay was not conducive to transportation routes back in the day. I suspect it's all the cedar swamps.
Or is it that railroads were built west from (or east to) Escanaba first with the connection to the south coming in later? The curve in the railroad at Powers suggests otherwise.
The US 41/railroad corridor in Menominee is the one significant agricultural region in the UP. Perhaps simple farmsteading is the best explanatory factor that sent this transportation corridor inland. That's where the decent soil was so that's where people were living so that's where they built the railroad and then later, the highway.
Throw in the fact that the lake is quite shallow along the coast so the prospects of new harbor towns was low and you eliminate the last incentive to develop a straight route between Menominee and Escanaba. Back in the day, at least.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 15, 2018, 04:53:40 PM
What does everyone think of the merits of rerouting US 41 over M-35 between Menominee and Escanaba? It is shorter.
But is there utility in US 41 serving those tiny towns between Menominee and Powers?
We know the reason why US 41 went straight north, but long before then, so did the railroad. Clearly, the coast of Green Bay was not conducive to transportation routes back in the day. I suspect it's all the cedar swamps.
Or is it that railroads were built west from (or east to) Escanaba first with the connection to the south coming in later? The curve in the railroad at Powers suggests otherwise.
The US 41/railroad corridor in Menominee is the one significant agricultural region in the UP. Perhaps simple farmsteading is the best explanatory factor that sent this transportation corridor inland. That's where the decent soil was so that's where people were living so that's where they built the railroad and then later, the highway.
Throw in the fact that the lake is quite shallow along the coast so the prospects of new harbor towns was low and you eliminate the last incentive to develop a straight route between Menominee and Escanaba. Back in the day, at least.
That part of M-35 is a very highly engineered concrete highway, too, likely done in anticipation of much more happening to it in the future.
Mike
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 14, 2018, 05:36:52 AM
Please take the fictional back to the fictional board you will see a lock on this thread.
Why do you want this discussion on the fictional board? I made this thread so it could be an offshoot of the I-98 thread. I wanted to go off-topic, and continuing that thread while talking about potential highway upgrades on other routes in upper Michigan would detract from talking about the fictional I-98.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 16, 2018, 12:36:22 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 14, 2018, 05:36:52 AM
Please take the fictional back to the fictional board you will see a lock on this thread.
Why do you want this discussion on the fictional board? I made this thread so it could be an offshoot of the I-98 thread. I wanted to go off-topic, and continuing that thread while talking about potential highway upgrades on other routes in upper Michigan would detract from talking about the fictional I-98.
Because the administrators of this site are about as "zero tolerance" of this kind of stuff as any I have seen on other message boards. None of this really is about fictional highways, but about highway upgrades and re-routing.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 16, 2018, 09:16:39 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 16, 2018, 12:36:22 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 14, 2018, 05:36:52 AM
Please take the fictional back to the fictional board you will see a lock on this thread.
Why do you want this discussion on the fictional board? I made this thread so it could be an offshoot of the I-98 thread. I wanted to go off-topic, and continuing that thread while talking about potential highway upgrades on other routes in upper Michigan would detract from talking about the fictional I-98.
Because the administrators of this site are about as "zero tolerance" of this kind of stuff as any I have seen on other message boards. None of this really is about fictional highways, but about highway upgrades and re-routing.
If they want it in the fictional highways board they should move it. But I do not want this discussion to be in the same thread as the I-98 one.