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East End of I-70

Started by theroadwayone, January 14, 2018, 02:12:24 AM

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Which eastern terminus of I-70 looks the best

Current (I-695 in Woodlawn)
19 (25.3%)
Former (Park and Ride near Baltimore)
7 (9.3%)
Planned (I-95 in Baltimore)
49 (65.3%)

Total Members Voted: 75

theroadwayone

(Disclaimer: If this needs to be moved elsewhere, let me know.)

I know this sounds like a post I wrote elsewhere, but I thought I'd give this a go.

Which eastern terminus of America's fifth-longest interstate highway looks better?

The current one (I-695 in Woodlawn.)

The former one (a park and ride lot near Baltimore.)

The one that was planned originally (I-95 in Baltimore.)

With that said, in 2014 the route was shortened only to the Beltway; if that's so, why hasn't MapQuest, Rand McNally, or Google (or any other atlas that I'm aware of) changed to reflect that? Please leave your ideas in the comments. Thanks!


Alps

I don't know what you mean by "looks the best", but in terms of pure aesthetics I'll take the flying stubs at I-95 over the ground-level park and ride. In terms of having a complete route, the same for obvious reasons.

sparker

The only freeway "teardowns" that I can generally countenance are the removal of freeway connector stubs that will never be used; the I-70 stubs at I-95 are a prime example of such.  I'd cast my vote for the I-695 interchange as the best of this particular "bad lot" (a quick trip to Fictional will indicate what I would consider a better I-70 "fate" -- a repurposing/west extension of the MD 32 corridor, with I-70 crossing/interchanging with I-95 and terminating at I-97; present route then I-170).

oscar

Quote from: theroadwayone on January 14, 2018, 02:12:24 AM
With that said, in 2014 the route was shortened only to the Beltway; if that's so, why hasn't MapQuest, Rand McNally, or Google (or any other atlas that I'm aware of) changed to reflect that?

Maryland's DOT got AASHTO approval in 2014 to truncate I-70 to I-695. But, as has been noted in other threads (including one similar to this one, which I can't find at the moment), there is some unclarity about whether the DOT has (yet) carried out the truncation.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

TheOneKEA

Quote from: oscar on January 14, 2018, 09:14:58 AM
Quote from: theroadwayone on January 14, 2018, 02:12:24 AM
With that said, in 2014 the route was shortened only to the Beltway; if that's so, why hasn't MapQuest, Rand McNally, or Google (or any other atlas that I'm aware of) changed to reflect that?

Maryland's DOT got AASHTO approval in 2014 to truncate I-70 to I-695. But, as has been noted in other threads (including one similar to this one, which I can't find at the moment), there is some unclarity about whether the DOT has (yet) carried out the truncation.

According to the 2017 HLR for Baltimore County [1], I-70 has not been truncated by MDOT SHA.

[1] - http://www.roads.maryland.gov/OPPEN/2016%20Baltimore_HLR_web.pdf

froggie

They haven't.  In no small part because part of the reason for the truncation was to use some of the ROW for the then-planned Red Line, which Governor Hogan subsequently cancelled when he came into office.

Strider

I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

hotdogPi

Quote from: Strider on January 16, 2018, 07:55:36 PM
I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di. See the north end of I-79, both ends of I-97, the west end of I-10, the west end of I-26, the west end of I-96, the west end of I-72, the east end of I-78, and others.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

theroadwayone

Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2018, 08:02:54 PM
Quote from: Strider on January 16, 2018, 07:55:36 PM
I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di. See the north end of I-79, both ends of I-97, the west end of I-10, the west end of I-26, the west end of I-96, the west end of I-72, the east end of I-78, and others.
Just saying, they could have routed it along the beltway, one way or another. I mean, could they have done anything differently in regards to planning, construction, etc?

dvferyance

I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

abc2VE

Quote from: dvferyance on January 16, 2018, 09:34:50 PM
I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

You're referring to this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3069827,-76.7808683,3a,18.3y,119.51h,91.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUMOX5enikJT9jUrGwSCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

dvferyance

Quote from: abc2VE on January 16, 2018, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on January 16, 2018, 09:34:50 PM
I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

You're referring to this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3069827,-76.7808683,3a,18.3y,119.51h,91.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUMOX5enikJT9jUrGwSCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Yep I know that sign has been there for at least 15 years.

theroadwayone

Quote from: dvferyance on January 16, 2018, 09:46:41 PM
Quote from: abc2VE on January 16, 2018, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on January 16, 2018, 09:34:50 PM
I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

You're referring to this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3069827,-76.7808683,3a,18.3y,119.51h,91.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUMOX5enikJT9jUrGwSCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Yep I know that sign has been there for at least 15 years.
And like only three years ago were the authorities there planning to make it official...

cpzilliacus

Quote from: dvferyance on January 16, 2018, 09:34:50 PM
I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

The Maryland Department of Transportation/State Highway Administration's Highway Location Reference, not signs on the highways, is canon on such things.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

froggie

Looks pretty well signed to me...

Regarding the sign Dave posted, I am of the viewpoint that SHA posted that to guide through/non-local traffic to the Baltimore Beltway so as to avoid their getting confused when they reached Cooks Ln and the park-and-ride at the end of 70.

Of course, had Governor Hogan not cancelled the Red Line, it would be a moot point because 70 was to be de-designated inside 695 and rebuilt to accommodate the rail line.

abefroman329

Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2018, 08:02:54 PM
Quote from: Strider on January 16, 2018, 07:55:36 PM
I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di. See the north end of I-79, both ends of I-97, the west end of I-10, the west end of I-26, the west end of I-96, the west end of I-72, the east end of I-78, and others.

Such as the east end of I-55, the east end of I-66...

Interstate 69 Fan

Current

It just seems obvious, without building it to I-95. The remainder to the park and ride is moved just to the east of the interchange, and has a roundabout style to it.
Apparently I’m a fan of I-69.  Who knew.

theroadwayone


TheOneKEA

Quote from: theroadwayone on February 16, 2018, 06:44:32 PM
Found this discussion about I-70 in Baltimore. Thought it's worth a look.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/baltimore/2389720-should-i-70-extended-into-baltimore.html

This thread sums up many of my thoughts on the incompletion of I-70. As Scott Kozel once stated on MTR, I have very mixed feelings about the cancellation of I-70 inside the city line. I really do wonder if Scott's musings about the resurgence of industrial and commercial business in West Baltimore that a link to I-70 would in fact come true if that link existed.

I also find the perspective written by Earl Swift in "The Big Roads"  to be pertinent to this discussion.

theroadwayone

Quote from: TheOneKEA on February 16, 2018, 09:48:48 PM
Quote from: theroadwayone on February 16, 2018, 06:44:32 PM
Found this discussion about I-70 in Baltimore. Thought it's worth a look.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/baltimore/2389720-should-i-70-extended-into-baltimore.html

This thread sums up many of my thoughts on the incompletion of I-70. As Scott Kozel once stated on MTR, I have very mixed feelings about the cancellation of I-70 inside the city line. I really do wonder if Scott's musings about the resurgence of industrial and commercial business in West Baltimore that a link to I-70 would in fact come true if that link existed.

I also find the perspective written by Earl Swift in "The Big Roads"  to be pertinent to this discussion.

Same here. If there's one thing to be learned from this, it's that no freeway, regardless of designation, deserves to end in a parking lot (except for anything thought up by FritzOwl.) Donate to Stop Freeway Termini in Parking Lots today.

DJStephens

Quote from: TheOneKEA on February 16, 2018, 09:48:48 PM
Quote from: theroadwayone on February 16, 2018, 06:44:32 PM
Found this discussion about I-70 in Baltimore. Thought it's worth a look.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/baltimore/2389720-should-i-70-extended-into-baltimore.html

This thread sums up many of my thoughts on the incompletion of I-70. As Scott Kozel once stated on MTR, I have very mixed feelings about the cancellation of I-70 inside the city line. I really do wonder if Scott's musings about the resurgence of industrial and commercial business in West Baltimore that a link to I-70 would in fact come true if that link existed.

I also find the perspective written by Earl Swift in "The Big Roads"  to be pertinent to this discussion.

Found that - Big Roads by Earl Swift in a local used bookstore.  A fairly in depth sub-plot about the difficulties in getting Baltimore's expressways finished.   Frank Turner was quite in-stringent about routing I-70 through Rosemont, instead of looking at alternatives.    Rosemont was at the time - fifties/sixties, a well established Black community in West Baltimore.  Options existed to go around it, or skirt it to the south.  If one of those options had been pursued - I-70 would likely have gone all the way in to I-95 in the southern industrial area.   The delays enabled the opposition to gel and prevent a good part of the road to not be built - aside from the I-170 trench.  In hindsight - the area and neighborhoods decayed anyway, without much of the freeway.   

LM117

Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2018, 08:02:54 PM
Quote from: Strider on January 16, 2018, 07:55:36 PM
I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di.

Please tell that to NCDOT (see useless I-87/I-440 overlap).
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Henry

While I would've loved to see I-70 completed to I-95 as planned, in reality there's just no good path that can be taken without ruining the park first (or the neighborhoods immediately bordering it). As it is, the planners should've made more modifications to the route so that it would take out less parkland but leave the neighborhoods intact, which was damn near impossible even back then. However, I think it was a good call building I-170 below grade, because a viaduct would be even more damaging to the surrounding areas that were declining anyway.

Then again, I-95 was supposed to have gone completely through DC at one point, and look how that turned out. Exact same situation as I-70, but through far more built-up areas.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

The Ghostbuster

Personally, I'd like to see Interstate 70 be connected with the US 40 freeway via a tunnel (with a tunnel spur to Interstate 95, although I don't know how much of the park, and/or homes and businesses would have to be destroyed to make that a reality.

wdcrft63

Quote from: LM117 on June 03, 2019, 10:28:20 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2018, 08:02:54 PM
Quote from: Strider on January 16, 2018, 07:55:36 PM
I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di.

Please tell that to NCDOT (see useless I-87/I-440 overlap).
Mississippi decided to end I-22 at I-269, while North Carolina decided to extend I-87 along I-440 to meet I-40. Both decisions got their shares of cheers and boos on the Forum. Ultimately these decisions should turn on what's most helpful for motorists. In the Baltimore case, I'm not sure it would be helpful to extend I-70 in either direction along I-695.



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