Information Overload!

[STLmapboy]

Look no further: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8562257,-73.9718771,3a,29.6y,328.73h,98.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWOzLK0AkBkF6li6lrQJ-xw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

At least it doesn't have control cities.

[Ned Weasel]

Look no further: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8562257,-73.9718771,3a,29.6y,328.73h,98.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWOzLK0AkBkF6li6lrQJ-xw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

At least it doesn't have control cities.

It's two separate roadways, each with three overhead signs.  The only thing I'd nitpick is that I'd rather see "I-95 TO I-80" rather than the small I-80 shield.  It's easy to forget that there is no I-95/I-80 concurrency when it's signed that way; even I made that mistake once or twice.

[ethanhopkin14]

This is an interesting thread since the MUTCD has rules to avoid exactly this, yet states still find a way to overload signs.

There used to be a sign (there might still be but I haven't seen it in the wild in quite some years) that was black writing on a white field in Texas, mostly on state lines, but sometimes it showed up in random spots.  For the life of me I never knew everything it had on it because it had that man words on it, but it was a breakdown of the speed limits of every type of vehicle on a given road.  It started at the top for passenger cars, then trucks, then after that is still a mystery. 

[SeriesE]

This one at Los Angeles is getting crowded...
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0533822,-118.2317282,3a,69.8y,110.51h,114.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZxq1e9hSwh1OvfRDpjaR2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Though there's no better alternative since many routes converge here.

[Ned Weasel]

This one at Los Angeles is getting crowded...
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0533822,-118.2317282,3a,69.8y,110.51h,114.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZxq1e9hSwh1OvfRDpjaR2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Though there's no better alternative since many routes converge here.

Wow!  I can't even think of any sign assembly in Oklahoma that comes close to being as bad as this hot mess.  It's like the only thing Caltrans consistently gets right is their self-imposed same-height rule, and how many people even care about that?

[STLmapboy]

This one at Los Angeles is getting crowded...
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0533822,-118.2317282,3a,69.8y,110.51h,114.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZxq1e9hSwh1OvfRDpjaR2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Though there's no better alternative since many routes converge here.

Wow!  I can't even think of any sign assembly in Oklahoma that comes close to being as bad as this hot mess.  It's like the only thing Caltrans consistently gets right is their self-imposed same-height rule, and how many people even care about that?

SOUTH [101] EAST
  [5]            [60]

In what alternate universe is this an appropriate configuration?

[Rothman]

I guess the alternate routings must be very important to risk that kind of confusion.

[mrsman]

This one at Los Angeles is getting crowded...
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0533822,-118.2317282,3a,69.8y,110.51h,114.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZxq1e9hSwh1OvfRDpjaR2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Though there's no better alternative since many routes converge here.

Wow!  I can't even think of any sign assembly in Oklahoma that comes close to being as bad as this hot mess.  It's like the only thing Caltrans consistently gets right is their self-imposed same-height rule, and how many people even care about that?

SOUTH [101] EAST
  [5]            [60]

In what alternate universe is this an appropriate configuration?

Caltrans giveth - Caltrans taketh away.

The great 1964 renumbering in CA was largely done to avoid signage like this, confusion caused because there were too many route numbers on signs.  Old pictures of the 4 level interchange, this interchange (SB Split) and the Colton interchange had many different highway symbols going every which direction.  Simplification was achieved by getting rid of many of these designations to have one highway (and only one highway) going in each direction.

So here, the San Bernardino Fwy (formerly Ramona Fwy) was once signed by four routes: I-10, US 60, US 70, and US 99.  It is now simplified with only one route I-10.  This is good.

The Santa Ana Fwy was once signed with two routes: I-5 and US 101.  Then after 1964, the US 101 signage was dropped for a long time, even though the road was still US 101 for another two miles, as a form of simplification, although somewhat inaccurate.  The sign read "5 SOUTH Santa Ana Fwy Santa Ana".  To address the inaccuracy, somewhat recently the sign was replaced with the middle sign here.  It denotes US 101, leaves off "TO" and puts in place the two highways that 101 leads to (5, 60) when 101 ends at the ELA Interchange in two miles.  To my chagrin, it also leaves off the long time control city of Santa Ana (as well as CA-60's control of Pomona which was never signed here).  My recommendation would be to put in place a sign that says:  " (101) TO (5) (60) [no cardinal directions] / [second line] Santa Ana"

The far right side is an exit to Mission Rd.  For a long time, it was only signed as an exit.  The recent signage changes added the ALT routes to 10/5/60 to encourage traffic headed for the freeways to use all of the lanes and not to leave the right lane empty.  If you enter the freeway at a recent on-ramp like Commercial / Garey (Alameda street), you may not be able to move over all the way left if you want I-10.  That's OK.  Stay in the right, exit at Mission, cross Mission at the traffic signal and then re-enter the freeways to go onto I-10 or US 101 to 5 and 60.  The problem is the verbiage and the overall confusion inherent in the signage.  My recommendation would be to only sign for Mission Road and to put in a ground mounted sign to the alternate routes to the 10/5/60.  It's such a good idea, Caltrans did it at the next sign [albeit the ground mount is a little small and leaves off 60]:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0531552,-118.2301051,3a,75y,104.53h,108.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shkLiOXI2cuN2YL4_l2PwpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

For those that actually follow the alternate route, when you get off at Mission and pass the traffic signal you are faced with this sign [leaving off mention of the 101 or the 60]:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0522992,-118.2258873,3a,75y,109.71h,79.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYD366MVvsQsYQQ-0_QCYkg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


As I may have stated earlier, the signs on this thread would be great recommendations for the Redesign It! thread in Illustrations.  I will nominate this discussion there, but  I seem to recall that this may have already been addressed there a few years ago.

[SeriesE]

This one at Los Angeles is getting crowded...
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0533822,-118.2317282,3a,69.8y,110.51h,114.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZxq1e9hSwh1OvfRDpjaR2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Though there's no better alternative since many routes converge here.

Wow!  I can't even think of any sign assembly in Oklahoma that comes close to being as bad as this hot mess.  It's like the only thing Caltrans consistently gets right is their self-imposed same-height rule, and how many people even care about that?

SOUTH [101] EAST
  [5]            [60]

In what alternate universe is this an appropriate configuration?

Caltrans giveth - Caltrans taketh away.

The great 1964 renumbering in CA was largely done to avoid signage like this, confusion caused because there were too many route numbers on signs.  Old pictures of the 4 level interchange, this interchange (SB Split) and the Colton interchange had many different highway symbols going every which direction.  Simplification was achieved by getting rid of many of these designations to have one highway (and only one highway) going in each direction.

So here, the San Bernardino Fwy (formerly Ramona Fwy) was once signed by four routes: I-10, US 60, US 70, and US 99.  It is now simplified with only one route I-10.  This is good.

The Santa Ana Fwy was once signed with two routes: I-5 and US 101.  Then after 1964, the US 101 signage was dropped for a long time, even though the road was still US 101 for another two miles, as a form of simplification, although somewhat inaccurate.  The sign read "5 SOUTH Santa Ana Fwy Santa Ana".  To address the inaccuracy, somewhat recently the sign was replaced with the middle sign here.  It denotes US 101, leaves off "TO" and puts in place the two highways that 101 leads to (5, 60) when 101 ends at the ELA Interchange in two miles.  To my chagrin, it also leaves off the long time control city of Santa Ana (as well as CA-60's control of Pomona which was never signed here).  My recommendation would be to put in place a sign that says:  " (101) TO (5) (60) [no cardinal directions] / [second line] Santa Ana"

The far right side is an exit to Mission Rd.  For a long time, it was only signed as an exit.  The recent signage changes added the ALT routes to 10/5/60 to encourage traffic headed for the freeways to use all of the lanes and not to leave the right lane empty.  If you enter the freeway at a recent on-ramp like Commercial / Garey (Alameda street), you may not be able to move over all the way left if you want I-10.  That's OK.  Stay in the right, exit at Mission, cross Mission at the traffic signal and then re-enter the freeways to go onto I-10 or US 101 to 5 and 60.  The problem is the verbiage and the overall confusion inherent in the signage.  My recommendation would be to only sign for Mission Road and to put in a ground mounted sign to the alternate routes to the 10/5/60.  It's such a good idea, Caltrans did it at the next sign [albeit the ground mount is a little small and leaves off 60]:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0531552,-118.2301051,3a,75y,104.53h,108.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shkLiOXI2cuN2YL4_l2PwpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

For those that actually follow the alternate route, when you get off at Mission and pass the traffic signal you are faced with this sign [leaving off mention of the 101 or the 60]:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0522992,-118.2258873,3a,75y,109.71h,79.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYD366MVvsQsYQQ-0_QCYkg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


As I may have stated earlier, the signs on this thread would be great recommendations for the Redesign It! thread in Illustrations.  I will nominate this discussion there, but  I seem to recall that this may have already been addressed there a few years ago.

I would do 101 south/Santa Ana/Pomona in this case. Typical California signage doesn't do TO [routes] on the last pull through (see I-405, I-210, CA-170 in the area, near the ends of each respective route), so it would work here standards wise.

[mrsman]

This one at Los Angeles is getting crowded...
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0533822,-118.2317282,3a,69.8y,110.51h,114.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZxq1e9hSwh1OvfRDpjaR2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Though there's no better alternative since many routes converge here.

Wow!  I can't even think of any sign assembly in Oklahoma that comes close to being as bad as this hot mess.  It's like the only thing Caltrans consistently gets right is their self-imposed same-height rule, and how many people even care about that?

SOUTH [101] EAST
  [5]            [60]

In what alternate universe is this an appropriate configuration?

Caltrans giveth - Caltrans taketh away.

The great 1964 renumbering in CA was largely done to avoid signage like this, confusion caused because there were too many route numbers on signs.  Old pictures of the 4 level interchange, this interchange (SB Split) and the Colton interchange had many different highway symbols going every which direction.  Simplification was achieved by getting rid of many of these designations to have one highway (and only one highway) going in each direction.

So here, the San Bernardino Fwy (formerly Ramona Fwy) was once signed by four routes: I-10, US 60, US 70, and US 99.  It is now simplified with only one route I-10.  This is good.

The Santa Ana Fwy was once signed with two routes: I-5 and US 101.  Then after 1964, the US 101 signage was dropped for a long time, even though the road was still US 101 for another two miles, as a form of simplification, although somewhat inaccurate.  The sign read "5 SOUTH Santa Ana Fwy Santa Ana".  To address the inaccuracy, somewhat recently the sign was replaced with the middle sign here.  It denotes US 101, leaves off "TO" and puts in place the two highways that 101 leads to (5, 60) when 101 ends at the ELA Interchange in two miles.  To my chagrin, it also leaves off the long time control city of Santa Ana (as well as CA-60's control of Pomona which was never signed here).  My recommendation would be to put in place a sign that says:  " (101) TO (5) (60) [no cardinal directions] / [second line] Santa Ana"

The far right side is an exit to Mission Rd.  For a long time, it was only signed as an exit.  The recent signage changes added the ALT routes to 10/5/60 to encourage traffic headed for the freeways to use all of the lanes and not to leave the right lane empty.  If you enter the freeway at a recent on-ramp like Commercial / Garey (Alameda street), you may not be able to move over all the way left if you want I-10.  That's OK.  Stay in the right, exit at Mission, cross Mission at the traffic signal and then re-enter the freeways to go onto I-10 or US 101 to 5 and 60.  The problem is the verbiage and the overall confusion inherent in the signage.  My recommendation would be to only sign for Mission Road and to put in a ground mounted sign to the alternate routes to the 10/5/60.  It's such a good idea, Caltrans did it at the next sign [albeit the ground mount is a little small and leaves off 60]:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0531552,-118.2301051,3a,75y,104.53h,108.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shkLiOXI2cuN2YL4_l2PwpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

For those that actually follow the alternate route, when you get off at Mission and pass the traffic signal you are faced with this sign [leaving off mention of the 101 or the 60]:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0522992,-118.2258873,3a,75y,109.71h,79.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYD366MVvsQsYQQ-0_QCYkg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


As I may have stated earlier, the signs on this thread would be great recommendations for the Redesign It! thread in Illustrations.  I will nominate this discussion there, but  I seem to recall that this may have already been addressed there a few years ago.

I would do 101 south/Santa Ana/Pomona in this case. Typical California signage doesn't do TO [routes] on the last pull through (see I-405, I-210, CA-170 in the area, near the ends of each respective route), so it would work here standards wise.

Your idea is very clean.  One issue is that there is so much signage out there leading to US 101 south ramps that references 10, 5, or 60* instead.  But you are right on a technical basis that if they merely sign 101 with the control cities of San Bernardino, Santa Ana, and/or Pomona* on all the signs on the freeway and leading to the freeway between the 4-level and the ELA Interchange it would be a lot simpler.

Much of the reference of the SB 101 as being to 5/10/60* without major references to 101 itself have been in place since 1964.

* Very few of the signs reference 60 Pomona, so if there is a shortage of space prioritize Santa Ana and San Bernardino.

[PurdueBill]

Perhaps not surprisingly, a Connecticut button copy classic is still going strong, with 5 across.  Somewhere I had a photo of it and even saw it recently on a backup drive but who knows where it is when I need it.    What a beauty with directional-suffixed exit numbers (but then one movement with no exit number).

[roadman65]

All these shields.  Being its Georgia with its superfluous route system it is a common thing in the Peach State.

[mrsman]

THe superfluous route system truly seems to only encourage confusion.  Why does GA do this?

Before 1964, CA typically had a legislative route number that was different from the state highway number.  While most LRNs were signed with either US or CA shields (with a different number), there were definitely some cases where there were discrepancies.  In 1964, there was a great renumbering of the highway system there, including purging excessive US routes and defining each route legislatively by the signed route number.  So Route 2 in the legal system was equivalent to signed CA-2.   Much less confusion because of this.

[formulanone]

I'm not a fan of the over-sized APL "billboards", but this is a case for one. I-640 in Knoxville:

[1995hoo]

Lots of different routes to keep track of at this intersection in Roanoke VA.

The sign on the right is a nice older sign. The state route shield on that sign looks so much better than the more modern blobular versions that have become the norm.

There aren't too many of those older-spec overheads left (which, by the way, I think are some form of demountable copy) - the only other one I know of in Roanoke was removed recently. Photo from January.

Insofar as I know, the ones on Route 1 in Fredericksburg are still there. The Street View is from 2019, so they might no longer be there. Let's hope they remain.

https://goo.gl/maps/AnpiTDU7uxdiLJxA9

[Scott5114]

I'm not a fan of the over-sized APL "billboards", but this is a case for one. I-640 in Knoxville:

You actually couldn't design a MUTCD-compliant APL here, since the APL standard doesn't allow for signing multiple exits in a row.

The actual problem here is not the type of sign, but that the panel size is actually too small for what it's trying to accomplish, meaning that each legend block is cramped, which makes the sign seem like it's overloading you with information when it's really not. There should be at least a capital letter's height between text and the edge of the sign, and that's clearly not happening here.

A properly-designed diagrammatic is a lot less awful to look at.

[WillWeaverRVA]

Lots of different routes to keep track of at this intersection in Roanoke VA.

The sign on the right is a nice older sign. The state route shield on that sign looks so much better than the more modern blobular versions that have become the norm.

There aren't too many of those older-spec overheads left (which, by the way, I think are some form of demountable copy) - the only other one I know of in Roanoke was removed recently. Photo from January.

Insofar as I know, the ones on Route 1 in Fredericksburg are still there. The Street View is from 2019, so they might no longer be there. Let's hope they remain.

https://goo.gl/maps/AnpiTDU7uxdiLJxA9

They were still there in July of this year.

[texaskdog]

I couldn't find a general thread for signs that make you do a double-take and say whoa, too much information!
So I thought I'd start one off with this masterpiece... complete with not only six destinations accessible via two different routes, but each of those routes also being represented by two different route shields!

(On the left side, they should have axed Windsor (seriously?) and used NYC instead, but that's for a different topic...)

I love this