Your favorite/least favorite state DOT?

Started by STLmapboy, May 20, 2020, 06:32:34 PM

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ctkatz

there's a running joke between my friends (roadgeeks and not) that you can't really drive in ohio interstates because of all the construction. but for me I have always liked ohdot. the interstates are smooth, they've installed/are installing a third lane for their roads, I'll take the road construction if it leads to interstates like that.  shout out to nydot too. the free interstates look good.  the solely ny 17 signed sections are pretty bumpy though. I also like them having three smaller poles holding up the EXIT X signs instead of the two thicker poles on the side. they'd get higher marks if they converted to mileage exit numbers faster or had consistent mile marking on I 87 (it switches from based on the southern terminus to nyt miles to miles based from when 87 moves from the toll road) and I 90 (western ny border to free section east of albany to the nyt berkshire connector). I know it's not a state dot, but I like what the thruway authority maintains their toll road.  it looks like a free interstate, not like an old pre interstate freeway like the kansas turnpike, penna turnpike and the I 44 composite toll roads in oklahoma.

worst I've got to say is indot. their EXIT X signs look like miniature bgs. it throws me off seeing those signs used for that purpose. them and caltrans (no mile markers, slapped on exit numbers inside the bgs instead of on top, cardinal directions underneath the interstate shield, the reason I 238 exists). I'll give caltrans credit for giving all of their interstate grade highways unique names though.


kkt

CalTrans because I just love the cutout shields.   :clap:

I-55

Quote from: ctkatz on July 01, 2020, 01:20:20 AM
there's a running joke between my friends (roadgeeks and not) that you can't really drive in ohio interstates because of all the construction. but for me I have always liked ohdot. the interstates are smooth, they've installed/are installing a third lane for their roads, I'll take the road construction if it leads to interstates like that.  shout out to nydot too. the free interstates look good.  the solely ny 17 signed sections are pretty bumpy though. I also like them having three smaller poles holding up the EXIT X signs instead of the two thicker poles on the side. they'd get higher marks if they converted to mileage exit numbers faster or had consistent mile marking on I 87 (it switches from based on the southern terminus to nyt miles to miles based from when 87 moves from the toll road) and I 90 (western ny border to free section east of albany to the nyt berkshire connector). I know it's not a state dot, but I like what the thruway authority maintains their toll road.  it looks like a free interstate, not like an old pre interstate freeway like the kansas turnpike, penna turnpike and the I 44 composite toll roads in oklahoma.

worst I've got to say is indot. their EXIT X signs look like miniature bgs. it throws me off seeing those signs used for that purpose. them and caltrans (no mile markers, slapped on exit numbers inside the bgs instead of on top, cardinal directions underneath the interstate shield, the reason I 238 exists). I'll give caltrans credit for giving all of their interstate grade highways unique names though.

ODOT has been reworking urban freeways (in just about every metro) to accommodate for growth and I've yet to be disappointed by a project. I used to have major traffic every time I went through Dayton and Cincy, two places where my issues have been nonexistent in my past two trips. WVDoH is another that I like, and with the highway bonds they'll continue to improve the 4 lane network and complete I-64's widening. Both states have good pavement quality and adequate rural connections. They don't have as many potholes like the other entries.

I give INDOT the middle ground. They've finally seen the light on widening beyond Indianapolis on I-65 and I-69 and they've been implementing more message boards. They do have room to improve though. Pavement quality isn't the greatest, but weather does play a part of it. The fact that there's no I-67 or I-76 (to a lesser extent) disappoint me. And having different speed limits (65) for non interstate freeways and 60 mph for divided highways is dumb, but that's a state law problem and not an INDOT problem. I hope that by the time I get a transportation job that I have more sensible limits to deal with so the legislature ought to rethink this.

MDOT. I-94 needed six lanes yesterday and everything else is broken or falling apart. That's all I have to say.
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sprjus4

Quote from: I-55 on September 11, 2020, 10:39:50 PM
And having different speed limits (65) for non interstate freeways and 60 mph for divided highways is dumb, but that's a state law problem and not an INDOT problem.
At minimum, the speed limits on both interstate highways and non-interstate freeways should be 70 mph, and the speed limits on non-limited-access divided highways should be 65 mph. Eliminate the truck speed limit on 70 mph interstates.

DJStephens

Quote from: STLmapboy on May 20, 2020, 06:32:34 PM
What is your favorite state DOT? The criterion are many; road maintenance, funding, signage consistency, signalization, etc. I personally like TXDOT (admiring the work they do across their vast area and those sexy stack interchanges).

   The texdot has squandered literally billions on clearview signage, overly detailed architecture, and design regression.   Have viewed much of it in El Paso county, so much money, but at the same time so much wasted.   The problems on pre-existing I-10 have not been fixed, but either had the can kicked down the road, or had obsolescence locked in by poor decision-making.  Number #1?  No way, would stick them in about the middle of the pack - #22 to #25. 
   New Mexico?  Number #38 to #41.  Terrible decision making and design, but the simple fact of geography placing them along the southern border, pulls them up a bit from the bottom.   

StogieGuy7

Quote from: DJStephens on September 16, 2020, 07:46:09 AM
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 20, 2020, 06:32:34 PM
What is your favorite state DOT? The criterion are many; road maintenance, funding, signage consistency, signalization, etc. I personally like TXDOT (admiring the work they do across their vast area and those sexy stack interchanges).

   The texdot has squandered literally billions on clearview signage, overly detailed architecture, and design regression.   Have viewed much of it in El Paso county, so much money, but at the same time so much wasted.   The problems on pre-existing I-10 have not been fixed, but either had the can kicked down the road, or had obsolescence locked in by poor decision-making.  Number #1?  No way, would stick them in about the middle of the pack - #22 to #25. 
   New Mexico?  Number #38 to #41.  Terrible decision making and design, but the simple fact of geography placing them along the southern border, pulls them up a bit from the bottom.

Agreed on TxDOT.  Yes, I have come to hate clearview and this gives me a bias.  But still, changing signage all over the entire system to conform to an (UGLY) font scheme? This must have cost tens of millions of dollars that could have been spent more wisely. And for what? Signs that are harder to read and aesthetically unattractive?  Big waste and big mis-prioritization of resources that should have been spent elsewhere.

As for NM, I have to agree here too. My impression of NMDOT is that they're very inconsistent and try to get very "artistic" in projects that are well funded while other areas seem to see lackluster maintenance over long periods of time. It's also a state without as many new highways to build, but which often needs existing highways expanded.  They're just average in keeping up with this.

kphoger

Quote from: StogieGuy7 on September 16, 2020, 01:15:44 PM
Agreed on TxDOT ... clearview ... Signs that are harder to read and aesthetically unattractive? 

What font was TxDOT using before Clearview?  Isn't Clearview easier to read than some FHWA fonts but harder than others?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
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Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

sprjus4

^

I must say, as much as I dislike the way many states use Clearview, TxDOT has been pretty good overall at keeping uniformity. I haven't had much of an issue with their signage as much as other states. Texas does things differently in many areas when it comes to roads, highways, construction, signage, etc. then other states, and I just consider this another aspect of that overall.

CoreySamson

Personally, I think Texas does a better job using Clearview than any other state. I think it looks really clean. If I had any knock against TxDot, it's that I see too many blown down signs everywhere, or the fact that Houston construction signage is nightmarish compared to other cities (but that may just be a contractor thing)
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Scott5114

Quote from: kphoger on September 16, 2020, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on September 16, 2020, 01:15:44 PM
Agreed on TxDOT ... clearview ... Signs that are harder to read and aesthetically unattractive? 

What font was TxDOT using before Clearview?  Isn't Clearview easier to read than some FHWA fonts but harder than others?

TxDOT was using all-caps Series D on conventional roads and Series E(M) on freeways.

I think the issue is not so much that they switched to Clearview but they did so in vast swaths, replacing signs before their service life for the sake of switching them to Clearview, as opposed to waiting for the old signs to wear out and replacing them then. This would be commendable and result in more consistent signage if Clearview had clearly outperformed FHWA Series, but as we all know, it didn't.

TxDOT handles Clearview about as well as it can be handled, and their signs tend to be fairly consistent and technically well-put-together, so if you disregard the font choice, they're perfectly fine, aesthetically.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

STLmapboy

Quote from: DJStephens on September 16, 2020, 07:46:09 AM
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 20, 2020, 06:32:34 PM
What is your favorite state DOT? The criterion are many; road maintenance, funding, signage consistency, signalization, etc. I personally like TXDOT (admiring the work they do across their vast area and those sexy stack interchanges).

   The texdot has squandered literally billions on clearview signage, overly detailed architecture, and design regression.   Have viewed much of it in El Paso county, so much money, but at the same time so much wasted.   The problems on pre-existing I-10 have not been fixed, but either had the can kicked down the road, or had obsolescence locked in by poor decision-making.  Number #1?  No way, would stick them in about the middle of the pack - #22 to #25. 
   New Mexico?  Number #38 to #41.  Terrible decision making and design, but the simple fact of geography placing them along the southern border, pulls them up a bit from the bottom.
Just out of curiosity, what would #1 be for you? I considered TxDOT because they're fairly good at implementing new projects quickly. I also appreciate a few other design aspects (frontage roads, avoiding cloverleafs, HOT and HOV lanes, and some pioneering designs like the High Five and submerged "Texpress" lanes on 635).
Teenage STL area roadgeek.
Missouri>>>>>Illinois

DJStephens

Quote from: STLmapboy on September 16, 2020, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on September 16, 2020, 07:46:09 AM
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 20, 2020, 06:32:34 PM
What is your favorite state DOT? The criterion are many; road maintenance, funding, signage consistency, signalization, etc. I personally like TXDOT (admiring the work they do across their vast area and those sexy stack interchanges).

   The texdot has squandered literally billions on clearview signage, overly detailed architecture, and design regression.   Have viewed much of it in El Paso county, so much money, but at the same time so much wasted.   The problems on pre-existing I-10 have not been fixed, but either had the can kicked down the road, or had obsolescence locked in by poor decision-making.  Number #1?  No way, would stick them in about the middle of the pack - #22 to #25. 
   New Mexico?  Number #38 to #41.  Terrible decision making and design, but the simple fact of geography placing them along the southern border, pulls them up a bit from the bottom.
Just out of curiosity, what would #1 be for you? I considered TxDOT because they're fairly good at implementing new projects quickly. I also appreciate a few other design aspects (frontage roads, avoiding cloverleafs, HOT and HOV lanes, and some pioneering designs like the High Five and submerged "Texpress" lanes on 635).

   Most would say North Carolina.  Am going to agree with that opinion.   Four lane highways to reach just about every municipality of over 50,000 residents, expansion of Interstate mileage. Almost Fritz Owlish in fact.   Good standards, for the most part, medians, shoulders, sight lines, horizontal and vertical clearance, etc.   Minimal skewing and shifting.  Believe they have avoided the Clearview bandwagon, as well.  Not a frequent visitor there, so this is a general statement.   
   What have viewed in El Paso may be on the low side of what the texdot generally is capable of.  El Paso was a late comer to get large amounts of funding.   Such as the $800 million plus for the West side toll way and I-10 fiasco.   And the hideous "dress up" of the original Spaghetti Bowl, and the choking down of EB 10 to only three lanes is simply outrageous.   That spaghetti bowl, should have been replaced, and 10 given ten lanes all the way to the far E side.
   The US 285 "redo" N of Pecos is awful.  A three lane job?  Are you kidding?? With all the huge outsized oil field rigs and traffic??   Still a white knuckle affair.  Would think one would want to reduce the death toll not allow it to continue?!?   

TXtoNJ

Quote from: CoreySamson on September 16, 2020, 01:51:30 PM
Personally, I think Texas does a better job using Clearview than any other state. I think it looks really clean. If I had any knock against TxDot, it's that I see too many blown down signs everywhere, or the fact that Houston construction signage is nightmarish compared to other cities (but that may just be a contractor thing)

Houston district is by far the worst of TxDOT. They're extremely parochial in their signing practices, often failing to include control cities on interchange signage.

The rest of the state is pretty good. There are little quirks like signing Waco as a control city on 35 between Austin and D/FW, when clearly those would be more useful, but they're not unbearable.

architect77

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 21, 2020, 11:52:29 AM
For me, either TxDOT or NCDOT.

I don't necessarily have a least favorite DOT.
Florida, NY, NC the best on the East Coast. 
SC and Georgia the least favorite, no high standards, they don't care.

sbeaver44

Living in PA, PennDOT is getting marginally better but still pretty low in my list.  Signage isn't great, a lot of roads in poor condition, and awful speed limits in a lot of places.  I live about 40 minutes from Maryland...driving in MD (except Baltimore City) feels like a MASSIVE improvement.  MD greatly exceeds PA signage and road quality.  Baltimore City of course maintains the non toll roads and oh my.

There's also some things I like about Ohio in regards to signage, NC for just constant system improvement, NJ for "jersey expressways"  and use of roundabouts, IL/WI for rural waysides, NY for generally reasonable NON-freeway speed limits.  (65 still on the Thruway?  55 in Riverhead on the LIRR? Cmon!). I actually like the NY State Route letter suffix system, like 23 and 23A.

Been a while since I've been out west but obviously I think CA and WA seem to have a great number of things figured out.

STLmapboy

Took a drive in Illy today. IDOT is still not super consistent (and directional banners are sparse) but they've got some bright spots--255 has some nice new pavement from the JB Bridge to the IL-3 junction and the other pavement I encountered wasn't too bad, with some potholes on 3 around Columbia. I appreciate some of their quirks and the traffic signals were nice as always in Illinois; there are 9 lights between 255 and IL-156 in Waterloo, where I turned off toward Valmeyer.
Teenage STL area roadgeek.
Missouri>>>>>Illinois

machias

Quote from: architect77 on September 18, 2020, 07:30:36 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 21, 2020, 11:52:29 AM
For me, either TxDOT or NCDOT.

I don't necessarily have a least favorite DOT.
Florida, NY, NC the best on the East Coast. 
SC and Georgia the least favorite, no high standards, they don't care.

I always liked Georgia's Freeway signage when they used their spin on Series D. It's a shame that's going away because it looked a lot better than the current FHWA standard.

sprjus4

Quote from: sbeaver44 on September 20, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
65 still on the Thruway?
That would be state law to blame, not the DOT. 65 mph is the maximum allowable speed limit on interstate highways. 

Quote from: sbeaver44 on September 20, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
55 in Riverhead on the LIRR? Cmon!).
This should be raised to 65 mph.

Ketchup99

Quote from: sbeaver44 on September 20, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
(65 still on the Thruway?  55 in Riverhead on the LIRR? Cmon!).
Ah yes, the notoriously low speed limit on the Long Island Railroad. But honestly, if NJ can have I-80 at 65, NY can definitely raise the LIE...

DJStephens

Quote from: StogieGuy7 on September 16, 2020, 01:15:44 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on September 16, 2020, 07:46:09 AM
Quote from: STLmapboy on May 20, 2020, 06:32:34 PM
What is your favorite state DOT? The criterion are many; road maintenance, funding, signage consistency, signalization, etc. I personally like TXDOT (admiring the work they do across their vast area and those sexy stack interchanges).

   The texdot has squandered literally billions on clearview signage, overly detailed architecture, and design regression.   Have viewed much of it in El Paso county, so much money, but at the same time so much wasted.   The problems on pre-existing I-10 have not been fixed, but either had the can kicked down the road, or had obsolescence locked in by poor decision-making.  Number #1?  No way, would stick them in about the middle of the pack - #22 to #25. 
   New Mexico?  Number #38 to #41.  Terrible decision making and design, but the simple fact of geography placing them along the southern border, pulls them up a bit from the bottom.

Agreed on TxDOT.  Yes, I have come to hate clearview and this gives me a bias.  But still, changing signage all over the entire system to conform to an (UGLY) font scheme? This must have cost tens of millions of dollars that could have been spent more wisely. And for what? Signs that are harder to read and aesthetically unattractive?  Big waste and big mis-prioritization of resources that should have been spent elsewhere.

As for NM, I have to agree here too. My impression of NMDOT is that they're very inconsistent and try to get very "artistic" in projects that are well funded while other areas seem to see lackluster maintenance over long periods of time. It's also a state without as many new highways to build, but which often needs existing highways expanded.  They're just average in keeping up with this.

   Tens of millions?  Given the size of the state, and the number of districts, the actual number for clearview waste goes into the hundreds of millions.   Signage has become way to cluttered in many places, as well.  Electronic message boards, everywhere, also.  Why not just send state residents Amber Alerts direct to their phones?!?  When one adds up the architectural frills and other dress ups - billions. 
   New Mexico should have had additional limited access mileage.  Albuquerque Beltway is the first one that comes to mind.  Could have been accomplished via ROW acquisition, cheaply, in the sixties and deep into the seventies.   El Paso N bypass.  Going via Anthony Gap, a high quality route should be in place to allow long distance Trucking and other through traffic to near completely bypass the El Paso metro.    Why it isn't in place is absolutely absurd.  US 70 Bypasses.  Were envisioned circa 1970, when they could have been done, cheaply.  Hatch and Deming bypasses,
both towns should have state route 26 super two's at each end, to remove trucks from the respective towns. 
    Instead, delay, obfuscation, and fencesitting took hold, and Gary Johnson and Pete Rahn built  poor quality cheap stuff 25 years later.   

sbeaver44

Quote from: Ketchup99 on September 21, 2020, 02:36:25 PM
Quote from: sbeaver44 on September 20, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
(65 still on the Thruway?  55 in Riverhead on the LIRR? Cmon!).
Ah yes, the notoriously low speed limit on the Long Island Railroad. But honestly, if NJ can have I-80 at 65, NY can definitely raise the LIE...
I typed LIRR out of habit instead of LIE.  Didn't even realize it



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