Poll
I'd prefer the single dose, but I'll take whatever I can find when my turn comes around.
Same here, similar registration system for the next county over from 1995hoo.
In Arlington, there are three vaccination centers, one of which is for the one-shot J&J vaccine and the other two for one or the other of the two-shot vaccines. I'm in an eligible group (not quite enough age, but with underlying conditions). Yesterday evening, after my county got some more vaccine, I was finally able to sign up for an appointment at one of the two-shot centers, Monday morning next week. Two-shot is my preference, I didn't check on the one-shot center before signing up with a two-shot center.
There's no poll option for "I plan to take a two-dose vaccine as soon as I can". I held off to cast a vote for the first poll option, once I got my first shot.
Nor is there a poll option for other people who have received the one-dose vaccine, so there is no way for them to be counted as having completed their vaccination except to pretend that they received both shots of the two-dose vaccine. Maybe change "I have taken both shots" to "I have completed my vaccination".
BTW, I got two non-COVID vaccinations, the same day in January. Two sore arms for a few days. I'm a freaking pincushion anyway, so two COVID shots rather than one is not a problem for me other than the inconvenience. But I was planning a shingles vaccine booster shot in about two weeks, which had to be rescheduled to mid-April to avoid interference with the COVID shots.
UPDATE: Just got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine this morning (3/8/21); so far, so good. Three weeks, at least, to get the second dose. For people opting for a two-dose vaccine (by choosing a vax center offering only two-dose vaccines), the county gets both Pfizer and Moderna from the state. Which one you get depends on which one the county got in its last shipment, so it's semi-random, and you aren't given a choice.
Also, today I got a scheduling ticket to get the vaccine from my health plan. I updated my medical record to show that I've started my vaccination elsewhere.
I would encourage you to consider getting it anyway, even if it seems like cases are dying down in your area. The more people that get the shot, the faster it will die down.
I've gotten regrettably used to the word COVID. I still, however, prefer simply calling it "the virus". Because that's still the only one anyone's talking about, so why bother using an ugly specific name for it?
Also, the virus itself is "coronavirus" and the sickness it causes "COVID". They are different things. Kind of like herpes/shingles.
The thing is, I know people who had terrible side-effects from the vaccine–knocked out with COVID-like symptoms for a few days.
Personally, even if I get the full covid symptoms that I had with the actual virus for a week, I am going to take the shot. Simply because if I do so I know I am immune from it, and that means I can see my grandma again without worrying about giving it to her. Having covid sucked, but not having the vaccine would suck worse. (And, as bad as it is for some people, in my personal case, covid wasn't the most unpleasant disease I can remember having–strep throat still takes the prize for that.)
I am not eligible, but I intend to line up for the shot whenever I can. I'd prefer the Pfizer and Moderna shots but I'll take J&J if I have to.
Also, it's likely that being vaccinated is going to become a requirement for certain things, many of which probably haven't even occurred to us yet. It almost certainly will be for international travel.
I'm in tier 1C in Kentucky because of high-risk medical conditions, but still I can't get an appointment. I hope I can get the one-dose vaccine, but I'll accept whatever is available.
Forget the media for a second and answer this question: Do you disbelieve the claims of every single medication produced by Pfizer and Moderna, or just this one?
According to https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html (paywalled), Massachusetts is near the top on first doses (as a percentage of population) and about average on second doses.
(https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6QfY0iceT137C8X2lNvxhQHaFE&pid=Api&P=0&w=241&h=166)
Like when people get the flu shot and get the flu? Hard pass on the vaccine for me. I know it's awful to get but the survival rate is high enough that I won't worry.
The flu shot has a somewhat low efficiency because it rapidly mutates. If someone gets the flu shot and then the flu, it just means the vaccine didn't work; the shot did not cause the flu.
The COVID vaccine has a higher efficiency rate. In addition, it has been tested against the new variants, and it works just as well.
A flu shot is predictive. It gets made several months before flu season so that there are enough doses for everybody. Some years are better than others in predicting which strains will become dominant.
COVID vaccine is reactive. The vaccine is based on a known strain so it will by its nature be much more effective.
My sister is a nurse and reported a similar side effect with Pfizer. Round 1 was no issues, round 2 she said knocked her on her ass most of the following day.
Don't care when prisoners, teachers in school systems that are 100% remote, and smokers go first. A few weeks ago Mass was 47th in vaccination rate so at least we improved a bit.
Doesn't matter to me, just stick me so I can actually gain back a partial normal life. More than likely we'll need a booster later this year or next year like the flu shot, update it annually
And this is a big deal for me. Y'all know already that I travel with some regularity to Mexico. I need to renew my passport, and I always go for the book instead of the card, just in case I need to travel outside of North America because of my role in church missions.
Our friends who are living as missionaries in Mexico were scheduled to drive north this past Saturday, drop the kids off with relatives in Wichita, and spend a week of "couple" time in a Colorado cabin before returning to Wichita for the birth of their third baby (due in late April). The day before, a week ago today, the two kids and the mom got rapid COVID tests just in case the results came in handy while crossing the border. And they all three came back positive. It was a shocker, as they all had zero symptoms. So now they've been stuck for a week, under home quarantine, waiting the seven to ten days and praying they don't develop symptoms, which would delay their return even further. And this is all WITHOUT any actual legal requirements for crossing the border! If they had never gotten tested, they would have been none the wiser and we probably would have had dinner with them in our house already.
As it is, no vaccinations are required for us to travel to Mexico. Tetanus is a good idea, hepatitis and cholera might be a good idea for time spent away from treated water, but none of it's actually required. It would be strange if we would have to have vaccination papers in the future.
Considering my Wife has about half of her family members in Mexico this would be the primary concern for me regarding the so called "vaccination passport." Not being able to see family I know isn't acceptable for her just as much as it is/has been for me. I rather just eliminate the possibility of a potential problem regarding a vaccination requirement even it never becomes reality.
To that end she does plan to travel to Jalisco during the summer. I'm to understand her game plan is to get COVID tested sometime prior to going out and flying back. Considering how much grief I got for going to Jalisco before the first COVID shut down in California I'll probably won't be poking that bear myself until 2022.
Yup, that's exactly why I figured it was worth mentioning. With the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a requirement as early as May or June. We all remember this time last year when things started to change dramatically... I have a feeling this year could have a similar phase, but in the opposite direction as stuff starts to open and travel picks up again.
I just thought one shot would be easier, and wouldn't take as long.
I think it might be more likely on the State level than Federal. There was some serious resistance on the Federal side to mandating COVID tests as a nation wide flight requirement. With Mexico specifically I don't see either tests or vaccinations ever being a requirement on their end for international travel.
I fear that with the upcoming discrimination against those without a vaccine, we're going to have a sub-layer of discrimination against those that have the J&J one because it's "not as good".
Testing is a bit different because it's recurring and is something you'd have to get done before every flight, while the vaccine is one-and-done (or two-and-done if you want to get technical) for the most part. Even if not for Mexico, I could see it as a requirement for countries in Europe, the UK, Australia, etc.
The lady who runs the business that cleans our office building was stuck in Jalisco recently, because her US visa had elapsed but she couldn't get a new one yet. I became involved because we needed tax information from her, she was in a remote village with no cell reception or fax machine, and her business partner doesn't speak English.
As it stands now, a negative COVID result within four (?) days of travel is required to enter the US by air–whether you're a US citizen or not. Land crossings are not restricted in that way. Southbound, I'm not aware of any restrictions at all.
To that end I have been trying to convince her to drive because her Dad is already kind of weird about flying and wants to go. Sounds like that might be a better bet anyways given driving over isn't as restrictive. Usually they cross the border in Nogales by car.
Also, I should note I was referring to domestic flights up thread.
Hell I wouldn't put it past Canada to make vaccination a requirement.
It's still plenty good. 77% or whatever it is is not only better than flu shots, but it was also done with less than a year of time going by. It really is amazing what they were able to do. And if everyone got the J&J, we'd we well past the benchmark for herd immunity. I'd happily get it if I could get it before the others. Just if I had a choice, I might as well get the best. Either way, the first day I'm eligible, I'll be scouring for appointments. I'm also signed up for some of those text alerts where they let you know if they have extra vaccines at the end of a day. Obviously haven't been reached out to yet with one of those.
Chris
Which makes no sense since other vaccines (including flu vaccine) are developed using fetal stem cells and the Catholic Church isn't telling people not to take those vaccines.
It's just the New Orleans archdiocese, not the Church as a whole. AIUI, others in the Catholic hierarchy disagree.
This is a misleading headline - I read their actual statement and it looked like their main point was that Catholics should choose Pfizer or Moderna over J&J if they have a choice. They said the public hazard of COVID was high enough that taking the J&J shot would be justified if there weren't other alternatives - similar to the existing MMR vaccine.
Heck, I could see Canada fragmenting into travel zones over this. I could see checkpoints put up on the NB/QC, QC/NL, ON/MB, MB/SK, AB/BC, BC/YT (to the extent this is possible on the Alaska Highway), BC/NT, and AB/NT borders to restrict travel to those not vaccinated (if you've been keeping up, this would make out for travel zones consisting of BC, AB/SK, MB, ON/QC*, NB/NS/PEI/NL, YT/NT, and NU) on a semi-permanent basis.
*I would think there would be a couple areas of Québec that would instead bubble with the Atlantic provinces: Blanc-Sablon (as it's isolated from the rest of the province and is one end of the ferry connecting the island of Newfoundland to Labrador) and Les ÃŽles-de-la-Madeleine (only accessible via a ferry from Prince Edward Island).
If they try to make domestic travel restrictions permanent, I foresee a court battle over that. There's already precedent in federal court that the so-called "travel ban" Kentucky enacted by executive order requiring a 14-day quarantine was ruled unconstitutional.
Out of curiosity, what's the point of specifying no more than three months ago? As I recall, vaccines weren't even being administered three months ago.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the current requirements remain in place, but they should also be irrelevant once you get the vaccine, so you'd think it should start to feel more or less like normal once we get past the next few months of vaccinating people.
I agree that they're not quite up there with doctors, nurses and ER staff, but re-opening schools is definitely a big priority and for good reason. But it doesn't make sense for the teachers to get vaccinated and then continue to teach from home, so the key is to get the schools opened.
Here's a tracker to follow NY's vaccination progress:
https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/covid-19-vaccine-tracker
Hamilton County is already up to 45.5% of the population with at least one dose, no big surprise considering the aging population up there.
Hamilton's also between the big State-run sites in Syracuse and Potsdam, so perhaps their location and small population helped things.
Not sure where you live in the Bluegrass, but unless you're like me and live out in the sticks, you probably have to pass a lot of other places to drive that distance to get to Winchester.
I'm still unsure as to when I am supposed to be vaccinated. My dad is likely to get his sometime after the age limit is lowered.
Isn't it still better than nothing? On Sunday, I heard from a lady at church (who is involved in vaccinations) that the first shot provides 60-65% immunity, and the second shot takes it up to 90-95%.
To my knowledge, whenever they give you the first dose they automatically schedule you for the second right then and there, specifically to avoid situations like this.
Chris
It's possible the appointment was set, but the gentleman just didn't show up for it.
That varies from state to state. It's definitely not the case here, based on what my wife and my mom said about getting their shots. My mom has had both; my wife has had the first and is waiting for a message about scheduling the second. I'm still on the waitlist.
Same thing with me, it's all been arranged by the DOD since I run an essential department.
What about Lizard People DNA? I could use club level access to the underground headquarters of the New World Order at Denver International Airport.
I already have access to that as a forum admin.
Something's off with the verb tenses here. :D
I've heard you need to keep moving your arm ALL THE TIME to help with that.
Perhaps poor grammar is a side-effect?
My wife gets her first shot later today, at a church across town. No clue when I'll be eligible.
I suspect the soreness has more to do with having a needle stuck in one's muscle. I felt that way after the last flu shot but otherwise had no noticeable side effects--no fever, chills, or malaise.
Of course, this comes as positivity rates in our county are lower than they've been since June, and illness onset is on a precipitous decline.
A little birdie flew in the window recently and told me the Sedgwick County commissioner will soon lift the remaining business and large gathering restrictions here, leaving only the mask and physical distancing orders in place.
I'll still probably get mine whenever I become eligible, just in case it presents a travel impediment not to.
(https://i.imgur.com/CNxZA8c.png)
We're seeing similar trends in OK. The December/January spike was associated with increased travel due to the holidays. And of course in mid-February, everyone was snowed in, so nobody had a chance to go out and breathe on other people. (This also meant that there was a trough in testing, however.)
Which ones have you tried out?
No spider sense, no healing factor, can't fly, can't control the thoughts or others and no energy beams.
Apparently I need to wait for April 8th for that. I'll have to get a wish list going for the second round.
Yesterday, the 7-day nationwide positivity rate was down to 4.1% - the lowest in over a year.
Oklahoma has phases 1-4. I am in phase 2. They just opened up phase 3 a couple of days ago. Over 1.3 million doses have so far been distributed within the state.
The virus is called SARS-CoV-2, and it is a coronavirus, not "the" coronavirus. There are many types of coronaviruses, and SARS-CoV-2 is just one of them. The disease itself is called COVID-19.
My wife got her first shot at 6:15 yesterday evening, and she had a sore arm afterward, had to keep moving it. I wrapped an ice pack on the injection site, and she took Advil, and she was good for the night. This morning, it's sore again. But, all told, no big deal, it seems.
Do you suffer from vasovagal syncope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_syncope#Vasovagal)? I do, though I never knew it had a name until about a year or two ago.
The first time I went to donate blood, back in my senior year of high school, I had to leave before I was even seen, because I greyed out while waiting in the chair. Whenever I have blood drawn, I have to ask the nurse to carry on a conversation with me at the same time, to keep my mind off the needle. When I had a chest X-ray recently (related to my wife's daycare licensing), I had to sit down on the floor afterward with a wet washcloth on my forehead–no needles involved. In fact, when I was driving my wife home from her vaccination yesterday and she told me her arm was starting to get sore, I could feel my blood pressure drop a bit, just listening to her.
I know. I didn't say "the coronavirus".
Back to the subject at hand: I'm definitely going to take the shot soon.
Well, of course. But they still aren't fun if they're severe.
I know a young lady who had COVID and then got the vaccine less than three months later.
Don't do that! Be sure to wait the three months before vaccination.
She was knocked out for days with awful COVID-like symptoms.
Speaking as someone else who had the 'rona and is hoping to get vaccinated soon, this is much appreciated.
Oddly enough, my fiancée (thanks again for educating me on the proper usage/spelling in another thread :-D) got vaccinated roughly 2 months after we had it, and experienced zero side effects aside from the arm soreness. Which we were extremely surprised by, since we had also heard that the side effects can be worse if you've already had it.
Still don't know about myself, but it probably won't be too long before my father gets vaccinated, as the age limit is being lowered.
With the DOD they had a list of commands and employee names that were registered to a specific appointment date. There was no specific age or physical condition requirement that I noticed. I'm just glad that I didn't have to figure out what the hell California is trying to do with appointments and screens.
They asked for my ID, but they didn't ask to see my medical paperwork that showed I had underlying conditions.
I haven't heard in Colorado, but I'm hoping it's pretty lax. My phase, 1.b4, isn't eligible until the 19th, but I pre-registered with Kaiser Permanente with that information and they still told me I'm eligible now. So, I guess I'll go for my appointment on Tuesday and if it doesn't work, I'll try to reschedule another after the 19th. I would have just made my appointment on the 19th, but they didn't have appointments that far into the future.
Chris
Hiccups is a new one I haven't heard of. Really it was nothing for me aside from a slightly sore left tricep. Apparently my second appointment is April 8th, I'll have to come in on a vacation day.
My wife had to show her eligibility paperwork and ID at the check-in desk here in Wichita (Central Community Church) yesterday.
My mother-in-law was walking by a grocery store in Missouri the other day, and someone asked if she wanted a COVID shot, because they had some left over at the end of the day. Her employer had taken everyone's information weeks ago and was in charge of setting things up, her co-worker had already gotten a shot a week or two earlier, but she hadn't heard a word yet from her employer. So she said yes, went over, and got her first dose.
You might not have a choice.
Stunningly, at no point did the Puyallup Tribal Health Authority ask me for identification. I had it with me, and I did have to fill out a form before I got my second vaccine, but still nothing about certifying my status as a member of the tribe. I actually joked with my girlfriend about getting her vaccinated with the tribe, since they don't seem to check IDs, but we decided the honor system was already working well elsewhere and would wait until later.
My county asked me for proof of identity, when I showed up for my appointment, and a few more times during the process. At the first ID check, I was told to keep my ID handy until I was done, rather than immediately put it back in my wallet. Nothing about proof of residency, or of working in the county, though that might've been verified behind the scenes before I was invited to make an appointment.
One Maryland county that had its act together on vaccinations, started insisting on proof of residency when people from a large but more disorganized neighboring county started hogging the appointment slots.
My wife's arm is still sore, two days later–but only while doing certain motions. Taking her left arm out of a sweatshirt is brutal for her. But Advil is keeping her going. And still zero other side-effects.
The BMI is complete bullshit. According to it, many elite athletes are "obese", despite having very little body fat. You can't measure something with 3 or more variables with just 2 pieces of data. It's like trying to measure the volume of a box using only the height and width, omitting the depth of the object. The BMI is designed to make Americans feel bad about themselves. It is total nonsense.
As opposed to pork or reviving a long dead thread from 2009?
It works for most of the population though. I'd bet at least 3/4 of those considered obese due to BMI are genuinely obese.
I have plenty of fat on me despite all my exercising. My most recent doc didn't seem to believe me until she ordered a blood draw and the results spoke for themselves. That's typical in this country though. My wife is a runner, and multiple times docs have been concerned about her resting heart rate being too low. It's not low, it's just peak physical fitness, because they're used to seeing sedentary people all day.
Like anything, it's a guideline. I've never gotten too bent out of shape over it despite being lumped into its category. I know what I am and that's good enough for me.
Most of the Louisville sites were still prioritizing age 60+ when I booked mine, so it may have been different had I waited until tomorrow to book.
I hadn't mentioned this before, but it isn't quite accurate to say my wife has zero other side-effects. The tip of her tongue has been tingling ever since she got the shot four days ago.
It's a joke from the second Borat movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EuyDMq3mYQ
Do they let you do that? Isn't it county-by-county?
I guess not. Yesterday I started searching for appointments from farther and farther away, and finally found one. This site had 15 open appointments for today as of 5pm yesterday, so clearly the people in that county aren't availing themselves of the opportunity. Everybody else who was there the same time of me was also from > 1 hour away.
Not in a lot of places. You could drive out here and get one. There is no residency requirement. I live in Arapahoe County but I am getting my vaccine in about 30 minutes in Denver (City and) County.
Chris
That's how one of my friends got her first shot. She just went to the mass vaccination site and asked if they had leftovers they were going to toss. They did, so they signed her up and got her a shot.
Not in Oklahoma, at least. The nearest site to me that was available on the day I signed up was Claremore, which is in another county.
Not in my experience. A few years ago, I weighed about 260 pounds, and while I was definitely not "obese" by any rational yardstick. I'm down to 230 now, and I'm no longer in the "obese" category, but I don't look that much smaller than I did then. As I said, it was designed to cause self esteem issues among everybody who weighs more than the "acceptable" amount.
My mother-in-law wasn't even looking for one. She was at the grocery store and someone asked her if she wanted a shot.
I've heard twice in the past two weeks that if I were to drive out to one of the counties along I-81 it would be easy to get a vaccine if I just show proof of Virginia residency. I haven't bothered because I have my doubts about whether I'd have the time to drive back out there for the second dose when the time comes. Next month is likely to be busy work-wise. Taking time out to drive to a vaccination site in Fairfax County is minor. Driving 100 miles each way is a different issue.
I don't know of any places like this. People on other websites say the reason no city or state has done this is that they think people will just lie about being vaccinated so they don't have to follow the order. But no city or state ever admits that's the reason.
Stores can, and mostly do, require masks as well.
If they require shirts and shoes, then yes, they can require masks also.
When my wife set up her second appointment, the system told her to do it at the same location she got her first one from. Problem: it was a temporary location that's no longer open.
Obviously. And that's the first thought my wife and I have whenever we hear her say that. But my point is that an increasing number of people are going to feel the same way, and I'm not so sure businesses will want to fight that fight anymore if they don't have as strong a leg to stand on.
Also, the vaccines don't provide airtight protection against contracting COVID-19. They just substantially improve your odds. But I plan to keep wearing a mask anyway, at least indoors when near other people, until we have herd immunity firmly established.
I'm between the first and second doses of a vaccine with a claimed efficacy rate of 95% (hope to get the second dose by the end of this month, then two more weeks before its protection kicks in). But I'll still want some protection against the remaining 5%. My mask would help. So would other people wearing their masks.
Which is, again, of course true. But that's not necessarily big enough impetus for the local government to keep the requirements on the books. I mean, masks will help whatever sliver of risk is still present until the day you die, but that won't necessarily keep jurisdictions from lifting or amending their orders. Granted, I'm no longer following the news the way I did a year ago, but I'm surprised I haven't heard of fully vaccinated people being exempted from official COVID orders, because–even if there is still some residual risk of transmission–I would expect some county somewhere to decide it's not a big enough one. Especially considering how all-over-the-board counties were on the matter nine months ago.
Exempting vaccinated people from enforced restrictions involves checking people for proof of vaccination, and so far nobody has been willing to go there.
The closest we've gotten is guidance that groups of vaccinated people can gather on private property without masks.
I've seen guidance from the CDC regarding fully vaccinated people, but nothing from my local government. You're saying that your local government has offered additional guidance?
Well put, and I agree. It's just too complicated for a grocery store or other public facing business to figure out who has been vaccinated and who hasn't. Even now, most people that are considered high risk have had a chance to be vaccinated, so it seems likely that this will happen - but not in a particularly organized way - in the next few months.
So what about people like me, who don't have a smartphone?
They encourage them to join this century. :)
In reality, I'm sure you can access the app on a computer and print something out.
Chris
Oh, I used to have one. I divorced it a few months ago.
Don't think I could do it. So handy for Android Auto in my car (Waze/GMaps/Spotify/Audibile).
Chris
That's why I did it.
If you can't quit something–well, that's when you know you need to quit.
I guess I understand that, but I guess I liken it to walking. I could quit doing it, but I imagine a great many things become incredibly inconvenient.
Chris
You're my age. Don't you remember the 90s? For the things I really need a smartphone for, I have a PC.
I used to think the way you do. The convenience of a smartphone is life-changing.
Especially living in a place with more traffic than you have, I honestly do find Google Maps/Waze indispensable. The other day I went to my part time job, started going the way I always go but then had a hunch to check GMaps and, sure enough, there was an accident ahead that would have made me sit for 25 more minutes in traffic.
Chris
Yep. It's a balance I knew ahead of time I wouldn't be able to manage, and I resisted getting a smartphone in the beginning. Then, recently, I found myself addicted to YouTube and news articles, found myself ignoring my family in the evenings. I tried setting "rules" for myself, but I failed to keep them. So I got rid of the darned thing. My family time has improved, I'm no longer half-irritated by the news, I no longer feel the urge to pick up my phone every few minutes. It's great. That is what has been life-changing.
Sometimes I get stuck in traffic. When that happens, my route around the jam is generally the same as it's always been, so no big deal. But I really can't look up, on the fly, how far the jam extends. But still. Even if I get home 25 minutes late, as I said, I'm making up that time by actually paying attention to my wife and kids for 25 minutes (and more!) in the evening instead of staring at a little glowing rectangle.
I have this problem too, but with the laptop, not the smartphone.
I tried once to figure out where the traffic jam ended, and had a fender bender because of it. So, I won't be doing that again as a driver.
But I do it all the time as a passenger. I can think of at least two instances - one south of Buffalo due to an accident, and one in rural Minnesota due to road construction - where I suggested a detour and saved a bunch of time.
I've done that in Minnesota as well. Except that it was before smartphones. Just whipped out the road atlas and plotted a new course.
Last night at bedtime, she had arm pain at the injection spot again–except that, this time, it wasn't typical muscle pain that gets worse as you tighten the muscle, but more of a "deep down on the inside" kind of pain. She had to get up and take Advil, because she couldn't lie on that side otherwise.
And yeah, her tongue still tingles.
We're veering off topic here, but anyways...
Now I'm curious if I would have been able to suggest the same route with a road atlas. I'll have to check later. The construction was south of Owatonna, and this (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.9532223,-93.261925/I-35,+Owatonna,+MN+55060/@44.0095591,-93.2677554,12.04z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-93.226018!2d43.9981207!3s0x87f6dcf2360b07f3:0xdc1f33d8d31d3311!3m4!1m2!1d-93.2522487!2d44.0579375!3s0x87f6e7fb19dd7607:0xad67d73ca66c36f!1m5!1m1!1s0x87f6e7e702e67aeb:0x776bf6d66daa4a0b!2m2!1d-93.2512422!2d44.0659378!3e0!5m1!1e1) is the route we took to get around it*. It was one of those annoying lane closures that backs traffic up for miles in the summer, and I know we saved a bunch of time because the vehicle we were traveling with stuck it out, and ended up arriving back in the Twin Cities about 15 minutes after us.
The nice thing about Google Maps that a road atlas can't offer is that you can tell approximately where the jam stops and starts. In this case, I could tell it was going to be slow going for at least several miles, which factored into the decision.
*The ramp from US 14 WB to I-35 NB was closed, hence the triple loop at that interchange.
Oh yeah, I kind of figured you were talking about Owatonna. I remember that road construction. Blech!
In my case, it was I-494 traffic, while we were heading from Waverly back to Chicagoland. I did one of those triple-loop-ramp maneuvers at I-35W (because it was a split-second decision to go south there), shot over from Medford to near Rochester, and followed I-90 from there. One huge bypass of I-494/I-94.
Here is the approximate route (https://goo.gl/maps/DReN5exA9rrtDKdD8), although the exact combination of county/state routes escapes me. It was quite enjoyable, especially compared to the typical I-494/I-94 traffic. And that makes me wonder if I ever would have driven/roadgeeked those roads if we'd had smartphones back then, considering that we probably "wasted" several minutes after all was said and done.
The answer to this would appear to be yes, although Google Maps certainly offers a bit more clarity and precision than this:
(https://imgur.com/GF5HfgE.jpg)
That makes sense. US 52 is a good alternate too (in fact, I-90/US 52 vs. I-90/I-94 is almost a toss-up when heading to the southern suburbs). But if the traffic was at I-35W, US 52 wouldn't have been much help.
+1 for the southeastern Minnesota countryside. MN 50 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6011333,-92.8639702,3a,37.5y,114.44h,84.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3esxUzQMnQvrPh2JEZZb5w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D3esxUzQMnQvrPh2JEZZb5w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D318.23706%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) is a personal favorite (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6012294,-92.9057427,3a,75y,93.81h,79.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKW8T7-PgXcP_992hAePg1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (there's so many great views along there that every one I find, I can't remember if it's the one I specifically wanted to commit to memory).
Well, it unfolded like this:
1. Traffic jam
2. Split-second decision to bail and take I-35W south
3. Get out the atlas and plot a different route
So bailing happened before a new route was chosen.
Obviously not. Those are excellent examples of things forged all the time. Who knows when they'll both be replaced with something digital.
I would not be surprised if smart phones are eventually paid for by the government in some fashion. They are not getting less important with time. My internet is covered by my taxes here in Tacoma. I'm sure a crappy public cell network is just around the corner...
I actually think this is a great idea.
Excellent argument for something resembling Israel's healthcare system, for sure.
Clearly Israeli's suck at avoiding COVID-19. But at least something is in place for when they get vaccinated.
It greatly reduces the possibility, even though it's not perfect (no vaccine is).
It does prevent people from excessive pork and reviving dead threads from 2009. ;-)
You get free internet service? Does tax money also pay for people's PC and modem, their landline phone service and handset?
Around here, demand vs availability has been such that it seems the pattern is "take whatever appointment you can get, and then keep an eye out to see if you can get something better".
I became eligible this morning. Interestingly, when I got into VAMS, the only appointments available within the next month were all on Sundays.
It's bring-your-own device. But not free: funded by a combination of taxes and utility bills. "Heavily subsidized" might be better.
I'm not aware of any changes to government mandates along those lines, but I do know of retirement communities that have amended their policies to (essentially): "wear masks in common spaces, but masks are not required in rooms where everyone is vaccinated".
AFAIK, there is no evidence that being vaccinated prevents you from being able to transmit the virus; the only documented benefit is that the rate of hospitalization and death drops to near zero after vaccination. So, even if you're vaccinated, there's still a need to wear a mask to try to keep your germs to yourself, unless you are around only people who are also vaccinated.
Norman's mask mandate was last considered by the city council at the end of February. Then, they acted to extend it to June 1, believing that by then they will be in a better place to judge whether continuing it is necessary or if it will simply be allowed to expire entirely.
The governor made a big hoopla about lifting Oklahoma's restrictions at about the same time Texas did, although everyone immediately pointed out that he'd never issued any real restrictions to begin with so there was nothing to lift–all restrictions and mandates were passed at the city level because the state had shown no interest in doing so.
June 1??? I guess they've never heard of something called "vaccines."
At the time that they last deliberated the issue, vaccines weren't available for most Oklahomans. They still aren't for the general populace, only people in essential industries, though that list of industries is very large compared to most other states, and declaring you're part of one of those industries is apparently on the honor system. Additionally, it is rather difficult to get an appointment in Norman proper (or anywhere in the OKC metro for that matter)–I drove 62 miles one-way to get my first dose, two counties away. That's not an option for everyone.
The tribes have apparently reached the point where they've vaccinated enough of their populations and employees that they're giving them away to anyone who wants them, but again, there are no tribal health clinics in Cleveland County, so you have to drive to Purcell at the closest. Again, not an option for everyone.
June 1 makes sense as an expiration date as well because it is after the end of spring classes at the University of Oklahoma. To my knowledge, we haven't recorded anyone in city limits suffocating to death of having a mask on, so there's little reason to call for an early end to the mandate.
If we're using university class schedules as a basis, then every state would look at June 1. That's not happening.
This isn't a state mask mandate, it's a city one (in the city with the state's largest university). We never had any statewide mask mandate. I'm fine with the city government being cautious–wearing a mask doesn't hurt me any.
These days, within the US at least, anything medical-related is stored in several databases.
I had my first Pfizer jab this morning. The check-in, vaccination, second-appointment, and check-out-of-observation stations at my site all had tablets. Literally as the needle went in my arm, I got a text message reminding me to make an appointment for the second dose, and another confirmation message once I was handed a card telling me to report back at the same time, 3 weeks from today.
There's been requirements to show proof of vaccination to register for school, or to travel to some locations for many years now. If people could be trusted to do the right things, there would be no need; but they can't, so there is.
I do expect that if there is a wave of "show proof of COVID vaccination" requirements, they will be relatively short-lived at least within industrialized countries, once populations have been sufficiently vaccinated.
By the time the bureaucracy of any vaccine passport system is hashed out, we're going to be well past herd immunity. It'll just be a moot point by then.
I was reading an interview about this in one of the local Vermont papers, and the idea was to start with carrots more than sticks. The dogmatic anti-vaxxers get the most airspace, sure, but there are a decent population of people who just don't know for various reasons, and soft diplomacy (e.g. reassuring them that the technology is safe, that their own doctor has gotten it/will get it, that family members or other people got it and are fine and the world keeps spinning) will probably go a long way toward convincing enough people to get it in order to achieve herd immunity.
So if someone from New Jersey wants to do something in New York City (or anything else across the state line)?
Requiring a vaccination to travel across state lines probably won't survive a court challenge. They tried a travel ban in Kentucky and the federal courts shot it down.
OTOH, New York and even Vermont are exempting at least some vaccinated visitors from other states from their usual quarantine requirements. (Make sure to read the fine print -- NY's new rules have a lot of it.) Somehow, the quarantine requirements have escaped court challenges. If the requirements are valid, exemptions based on vaccination status would probably be OK too.
Whether those states will be able to readily and reliably verify vaccination status, for visitors claiming to have been vaccinated in other states, is unclear at best.
Update - was able to reposition from Phase 2 to Phase 1C; will be getting the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine this coming Saturday and the second dose three weeks later.
For surface travelers, it is more or less done on the honor system, although you might want to be careful driving around with license plates from another state, because you never know what unsuspecting passerby might decide to report you, especially if it's someone down the street that can see where you're staying.
Of course, the big caveat is that a lot of long-distance travel is done by air, and although some airports are more lax than others, you will generally have to pass a checkpoint before leaving the airport where you'll be asked what state you're arriving from, and if it's on the quarantine list, you'll have to fill out quarantine papers. Tracing is quite a bit more advanced here: I'm not sure if this is still ongoing now, but it has been that anyone that tested positive for COVID or had arrived from a state on the quarantine list would receive a call from the state every day for two weeks to make sure they were staying in quarantine.
When availability opened for 45+ on Friday, I checked the sites I had bookmarked at midnight, and they mostly hadn't captured the change in eligibility requirements. The update went in sometime in the middle of the night.
VAMS did start taking email addresses the day before, and I got my appointment by jumping on their email notification when it came through in the 8am hour. They do have a mechanism to let you choose which vaccine you want (subject to appointment availability, of course). I did keep an eye out for J&J vaccine times after I made my initial appointment because I liked the idea of "one and done"....but keep in mind that the trade-off is that there is a longer wait-time after the J&J jab to achieve full efficacy, and the J&J vaccine has a lower reported effectiveness rate.
Those downsides aren't so "down" that a person should refuse J&J in favor of Pfizer or Moderna....but they do have me thinking it doesn't make much sense to deviate from a "first available, and then see if an earlier appointment can be found" strategy.
FWIW, my wife isn't yet eligible. We've been preparing for the rush of the next wave by making sure she has accounts with all the different iterations of MyCharts in the state, and getting in the habit of checking VAMS for a change in their pre-registration. (We're planning to visit family with health issues as soon as our vaccines have taken full effect...thus the emphasis on getting it done as soon as possible.)
It is conceptually possible to accept vaccines that are not currently approved in the US for purposes of avoiding quarantine on the basis of their being approved by a WHO-designated Stringent Regulatory Authority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stringent_regulatory_authorities). This would cover the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine since the MHRA in the UK is a SRA.
Countries with SRAs form a more restrictive club than countries where the tap water can be assumed to be safe to drink. Russia and New Zealand are in one and not the other, for example.
How is this qualitatively different from, say, taking a photo of one's CDC vaccine reminder card once it has been populated with dates and batch numbers for a full course of shots, and showing that with proof of identity such as a driver's license? How is the state addressing equal protection concerns that arise from New Yorkers receiving vaccines through channels (such as the VA, Native American tribes, etc.) that bypass the state vaccination database?
Again, though, that raises the question of equal protection–suppose a fully vaccinated OK resident were to attend a concert in NY. Could they use an OK vaccine credential? What if OK offers no vaccine credential, or the patient was vaccinated by a tribal health authority?
WaPo has an article today stating that a US trial showed the AstraZeneca vaccine to be 79% effective, and the trial "found no suggestion that the vaccine carried an increased risk of clotting," so it's possible that they could get emergency authorization if they apply for it.
Thanks for the links. The press release is unclear on how the underlying Health Pass solution verifies that the app user has in fact received the vaccination or negative test result that he or she claims to have in hand. Does this rely on self-certification?
This feeds back into what was stated above where what's technically legally required may be far more broad than what can feasibly be enforced, which in turn may also be more broad than what actually is enforced.
I can state through empirical experience that New York sometimes has the national guard at LGA checking to make sure everyone leaving the gate area has filled out a form. But only sometimes. And of course, all this does is check that someone has filled out the form, it does nothing to ensure that people actually follow up on the required actions after they leave the airport. Meanwhile Cuomo himself has straight up admitted it's basically impossible for the state to enforce anything on people who arrive by car.
That said, Warren and Essex counties specifically have actually been enforcing the rules real hard: not letting people check into hotels without the form filled out, and they've even had random checkins on residents to ensure they are quarantining as required. NYC was doing this for hotels but not for residents. The rest of the state never did much of anything as far as I can tell.
Over here in CT, we handed out about a dozen fines for breaking the rules at the end of last summer just to make a public example and try to scare people. But, all but one of the fines were only for failing to fill out the form. One person got a second fine because one of his coworkers narced on him for loudly bragging about how he had traveled and was refusing to quarantine.
Otherwise... the only place there has ever really been anything resembling enforcement is at doctor's offices. Go to the doctor and you will be asked if you've traveled in the last two weeks. Answer yes and they will require you provide proof of having received a negative test.
In Oklahoma, I've heard that some people are being automatically scheduled for their second dose. I was not. Of course, it may be better in my case that I wasn't–I only went to a large vaccination site in a rural county because all of the sites nearer were booked solid, so I may be able to get my 2nd dose closer to home. Additionally, my wife now has a job she didn't have at the time of our vaccination, so we are now going to have to schedule at least her 2nd dose around her work schedule.
Even doctors vary by quite a bit. My eye doctor has only a simple temperature check. That's it. Supercuts is more restrictive. My retina specialist, on the other hand, won't see you if you've been anywhere outside of the area any time even remotely soon. This was true even for travel to rural podunk PA exactly two weeks before during the month of July, back when cases were really low (and lower there than here), and during which I only got out of the car for a lunch/gas/bathroom stop at a Sheetz. Rather than applying nuance they just had a blanket ban. I found that out the hard way. My other doctors are in between.
Only to ensure that people had filled out the form. No further followup.
Okay so it sounds like there is a lot more variation in NY since different places are sorta setting their own policy. In CT, doctors' offices have guidance from the state on how to handle this so it's more consistent.
Which, that fits in well with the broader trend that CT has been far more organized about all this than NY has.
The temperature checks are such theater it's kind of silly, especially since not everyone who catches it presents a fever. At the casino my wife worked at, security does a temperature check for anyone entering the building, employees and customers. One time she went in and got a reading of 91° (clearly a bad read). Didn't matter, it was under 100°, so she was waved through. Hypothermia is some other department's problem.
I went to Supercuts here in Norman and they didn't do any sort of check, other than presumably enforcing the city mask mandate (although nobody challenged it when I was there).
That sounds like they are practically begging people to lie to them about whether they've been out of state...
This is one thing I don't understand, many people consider travel of any kind to be dangerous. Merely traveling does not make you any more likely to get it, and often times people are traveling to places with less people infected than where they live, which means they're probably actually less likely to get sick. For a while, my work said that if any of us travel outside the state, we should tell them and then not come in to work for a week afterwards, as if somehow the act of crossing a state border makes you more likely to be sick.
The operating assumption seems to be that if you're leaving your state, you're doing it for some nefarious purpose like partaking in activities your state doesn't allow but more lax states still permit or are less restrictive about. The images of what's happening in Miami this week where there have been clashes between police and visitors and the city basically being shut down after nightfall feed into this, and the spring break images of last year where you had people throwing tantrums and stating "who gives a shit, I wanna party".
Pretty much everyone wears a mask indoors here, including southern New Hampshire.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
It's not just the eastern part of the state. Down the street from my house, someone set up a 'Recall Polis' station on the side of the road in front of a Big Lots. Not sure what that's supposed to accomplish. That said, it's a real shocker than the eastern counties were the ones with the highest per capita infection and death rate.
Chris
There is a fair amount of continuity in terms of climate, culture, and topography with western Kansas, where some counties (e.g., Gove) have had close to 1% of their population die of covid.
In other news: I now have an appointment for my first shot. I'm getting Moderna at 12.45 PM this Saturday, March 27, at the Hunter Health Clinic, which is accepting all comers age16 18 or over and does not have to adhere to state or county criteria since it receives its doses through the federal community health clinic program. (For nostalgia's sake, I would have liked to have been vaccinated at our old downtown library, but it is a county-run site for which I am unlikely to be eligible until May 1. I think it is preferable to be vaccinated sooner rather than later, given that our county is likely to drop its mask mandate this week.)
Edit: Had to amend minimum age since, unlike Pfizer, Moderna is not approved for the 16-18 age group.
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
The articles I read basically said they don't stop nearly as many potential particles, hence why they're easier to breathe through. If the air gets through more easily, so does everything else.
Chris
They kind of make people look like terrorists or car jackers too. I'm kind of surprised someone hasn't come up with some of 80s ninja style looking mask.
I have a raptor mask (kind of gator looking) I wore around town a couple times the week leading up to Halloween. I don't recall getting any weird looks (granted I really couldn't see) at any of the stores I went to, I certainly was never questioned.
Agreed with this from Western NY as well. I'd say 98-99% is a reasonable estimate. We also started with it much earlier than other parts of the country - April or May, as I recall? There has been very good compliance throughout the pandemic that's understandably starting to slip a little bit now.
Outside of experimenting once on an 8 mile run I haven't worn a mask during exercise. The conclusion I came to was that it was really easy for me to dodge people by six feet.
When I'm on a trail that's in the mountains and you don't have the ability to step off, I keep my mask handy so I can put it on when someone approaches. But, bluntly that's more of a courtesy for the other person than it is my fear of catching it outside with a breeze blowing and only being within 6 feet of someone for 2 seconds.
Chris
It depends. When I'm by myself I usually hike way faster or even trail run, my wife really slows me down. Unless it is something like Morro Rock I generally feel pretty comfortable I can get out of the way. My wife doesn't have the dexterity I do which is mostly the reason I carry one with me if we are hiking together. Either way, I don't really feel much concern regarding catching something in an open air environment with such short intervals of interaction.
Heck, I have good friends who don't know if they want to get vaccinated, because they want people more vulnerable than they are to get whatever's available instead. Then, by the time that's happened, there might not be any need for them to get the vaccine anyway. That's hardly an attitude to penalize.
I've taken two of my sons in for eye exams in the past few months. On the form, it asks if you've been out of the state within the last thirty days. THIRTY DAYS? Good grief!
So I lied.
The last time I read about that, it turns out that the experiment showing the whole particle-splitting thing was overblown, the authors stressed said that the supposed implications weren't really implied by the results, but by that time it had gone viral (pun not intended) and neck gaiters were considered inferior.
Meanwhile, I have my first shot scheduled for Friday evening.
Our friend who was laid up sick for a couple of days after getting his vaccination–well, his wife reacted badly to hers later as well: chills, headache, fever, lethargy, body aches. Grrr.
In our case, we had gone out of state something like three weeks earlier. While we were there, our family chose to watch the graduation on TV from my sister-in-law's house rather than going to the university itself. 'Within the last 14 days' I would have understood, but not 'within the last 30 days'.
Our friend's wife's injection site is also red, swollen, painful, and hot to the touch. She thinks they may have missed the muscle, too, based on the location.
In my case I live in a state that doesn't have a travel quarantine mandate. So when I run into something like a Dentist office running contrary to actual public health policy where is my incentive to answer truthfully? It would be one thing if I was interacting with people, but in that specific instance I didn't interact with anyone. It would have cost me my appointment if I had answered truthfully, so I didn't.
Same here in Western Washington. Mask compliance is exceptional, even outdoors. Non-mask wearing in mask-mandated environments is very rare. Our mandate went into place in late June, but was common in some cities by that point. It has never been lifted.
The one exception might be apartment buildings. It seems people are not as willing to wear masks between entering the building and their units, although they usually "mask up" when coming face to face with someone else.
Trademarked, I assume? The bandanabipTM, perhaps?
Well that's a fascinating take, given that CT currently ranks 5/50 for shots given per capita and 4/50 for percent of population fully vaccinated. NY ranks 29/50 and 41/50 on these metrics, respectively. (data available here) (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/)
The issue is that the majority of neck gaiters out there are made of thin and porous material which make them ineffective. This Duke University study (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083) measures this in a simple and straightforward way.
Of course, the nuance here quickly gets lost and people rush to interpret the results as "neck gaiters are ineffective" rather than as "thin and porous face coverings are ineffective", focusing on the more obvious variable rather than the more logically meaningful one.
FWIW, when I was in Waterbury getting my first shot on Sunday, my 15 minute observation period was spent in line, waiting to get to the "make second appointment" station. I've heard similar stories from others in CT, although I wouldn't discount the possibility of there being screw-ups elsewhere.
The biggest headache has been balancing demand with the availability of appointment slots. 500k people became eligible on Friday, yet only 80k appointments were made.
I suppose that's simply because neck gaiters are quite easy to spot. Face masks all look about the same. Assuming neck gaiters are universally thin and porous, it's easy enough to just ban neck gaiters.
Oh hey, look, that study I referenced. More accurate would be "thin and porous face coverings may theoretically be less effective at preventing the spread of a given airborne pathogen". But, in this world of clickbait social media, that sort of nuance is lost on people, therefore neck gaiters simply went from the "good" category to the "bad" category in people's minds in a matter of one or two weeks.
Pfft. I like this more specific data, which does show CT slightly higher than NY in terms of percent population that has received a first dose or both doses...but also shows CT has burned through its supply much faster, thus causing the issues my daughter is seeing firsthand there.
In other words, CT has used up 85% of its available supply for a few meager percentage points above NY, when NY's supply has not been drawn down as much.
Data here (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html)
The state of Kansas did indeed remove the authority of counties and cities to enact mask mandates–and therefore our county has now rescinded its mask mandate in order to not be open to litigation. News reports invariably state that now it will be "up to individual businesses" to enact or not enact a mask mandate, and there are plenty of opinions to go around–both from the "man on the street" and from business owners.
Am I missing something?
Executive Order 20-68, which was issued by the state in November, applied to every county/jurisdiction that hadn't crafted its own mandates. That is, in the absence of a county- or city-specific mandate, the state mandate applied. As far as I know, that executive order is still in force. So what really changed? Didn't we merely switch from one (county) mask mandate to another (state) mask mandate?
Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant. The only place I know of that specifically prohibited gaiters was the UK football stadium in Lexington. Walmart has signage that specifically allows bandanas and gaiters in addition to masks.
KYTC bought hi-viz gaiters for our crew members to wear, so there must not be too much concern about them in a state where the governor has been one of the most overreactive ones in the country.
Flying to Vegas this past weekend, Southwest announced that the clear plastic shields did not count as a face covering. I've never quite understood those anyway.
Chris
I'm surprised I haven't seen a clear mask out of the thousands of people I've seen, even one made of fabric.
Being clear makes no difference as to the effectiveness. If it's plastic, and the plastic prevents particles from getting through (the ones you're talking about don't, but I'm imagining flexible plastic put on like a fabric mask), there's no reason why it shouldn't be allowed.
A good friend of mine has a cloth one with a clear plastic part in front of the mouth. That's because she's a music teacher, and the students need to see her mouth during class.
Not even a face shield? I've seen several face shields, some worn with a mask as well, and some worn instead of a mask.
I think the thing you are missing is that the legislature voided all of the governor's covid orders to date. The short description of the bill (https://legiscan.com/KS/text/SB40/2021) (which in fact is not all that short) contains the phrase "prohibiting certain actions by the governor related to the COVID-19 health emergency and revoking all executive orders related to such emergency on March 31, 2021."
The Wichita Eagle has reported that the Wichita City Council is considering reimposing a mask mandate by local ordinance, which it is free to do under its home-rule powers. This would cover about 70% of the county population. Of the seven council members (including the mayor), I expect Becky Tuttle, who represents a fairly conservative district in northeast Wichita, to be the swing vote.
I don't know that SB 40 actually forbids counties from making mask mandates or other health orders. However, it apparently makes it easier for businesses to challenge them in court and harder for counties to prevail, which is why our county has cited the new law as its reason for lifting the mask requirement.
I expect vaccine prioritization to collapse soon, partly as a result of this. We're already combining Phases 3 and 4 (ages 16-64, at two separate levels of higher-than-normal vulnerability to bad covid due to underlying conditions). When you take away the protection of a mandatory mask order, it becomes harder to say No to those who are willing to be vaccinated and see it as important to their own safety.
*shrug* Regardless of the details, CT has achieved better results than NY on the one statistic that matters, which is the number of shots in arms.
I am not familiar with the process of scheduling second appointments as I have yet to go through it myself, but both my parents have successfully done so and neither has had any complaints.
New York, meanwhile, has had plenty of messes with distributing doses - no one in CT is driving to the other end of the state to get a shot because appointments are disproportionately available over there. In NY, you have people driving to Potsdam or Plattsburgh from Long Island to get vaccinated because the state can't figure out how to allot things properly. And all this was happening while Yankee Stadium had tons of appointments available but since they were restricted to Bronx residents in the name of equity theater, no one else in the area was able to take advantage. And while the site in Washington Heights was having problems serving locals since no one thought it might be necessary to have staff that speaks Spanish in one of the largest Hispanic neighborhoods in the state.
Connecticut also has never flushed doses down the toilet because somewhere ran out of currently eligible people to jab and the governor had threatened to draw and quarter anyone who dared jab someone not yet eligible. In what state was that happening? Oh yeah...
If they were already taken out of the freezer, there's not much time to move the doses someplace else before they spoil. Thus the mad scrambles (where the law permits) to find an arm, any arm, at or very close to the vaccination site, so a dose doesn't go to waste.
At least in my area, some people will lurk around pharmacies, to get doses that would otherwise go to waste.
My daugter just told me that on Monday, the entire scheduling system in CT collapsed for the entire day. The operators had to take phone numbers and tell them that they would get calls when the system was back up.
System came back up yesterday, but no appointment slots were available for scheduling. There were only two sites in the entirety of CT open for appointments today. The expansion of eligibility to 45 and up has totally overwhelmed the system (my daughter reports Gen Xers are far more understanding than Boomers, though). So yes, people in CT are having to drive considerably around their state.
I'll take her experience with hundreds of Nutmeggers per week over your parents' singular experience any day.
Also, people driving all over NY was a temporary glitch in the appointment system -- people didn't realize that all you had to do was refresh the screen and wait for a slot to pop up and it did not have anything to do with equity theater as you put it. People in Syracuse have not had to go to Potsdam in over a month (State Fairgrounds has a great operation) for example, and the state system runs quite smoothly -- especially since more sites opened over the last month. Your information is obsolete.
The current situation means that NY should surpass CT in vaccinations in the near future as recent appointment difficulties will cause a plateau.
CT is sucking it up.
I mean, the system crashed when eligibility expanded to 55-64 a few weeks ago too. And I expect it to crash again when eligibility to everyone under 45 opens up. There's no real way to avoid this other than being more incremental about who you open up to when - too much traffic at once will overwhelm any web service. This has also not been a CT-specific problem.
Meanwhile the fact that only two sites had open appointments today should not be seen as a failure - quite the opposite, having open appointments day of means a slower rate of vaccine distribution because sites aren't jabbing as many people as they could be.
I am also curious if you know anyone who has a similar role to your daughter in NY, and what they'd have to say about how everything is working.
On a final note, regarding this assertion:
Well, this is empirically testable. Let's see how things look in a few weeks, shall we?
same arm for me
I'm sure this is one reason why things are by appointment only.
I've always been told you should get it in your dominant arm because moving the muscles a lot helps with the soreness. I got my first shot in my right (dominant) and it only hurt for about 12 hours thankfully. We'll see how #2 goes here in a couple of weeks.
Chris
In my case, they asked which arm I preferred it in. I told them to use my non-dominant arm.
For the record, they gave me a choice too. I just chose my dominant as I had been told that tidbit by a couple different nurses in the past.
Chris
I was offered a choice each time, as was my father when I brought him, for both our first and second Pfizer doses. I went left/non-dominant both times.
This. The last thing you want with the level of demand right now is open appointments, because that shows you're not being efficient with geographic distribution. The fact that NY has open appointments for today in some regions and no availability for over a month in others shows that the state has done a poor job allocating doses based on demand. An open appointment means that a dose is going unused. And since NY won't let vaccine sites jab anyone who isn't otherwise eligible with their spare doses, that means a dose is probably going to waste.
They asked me both times too. I chose left for the first shot, right for the 2nd. It seemed to me it would be good to use the other arm the 2nd time.
My wife said she didn't wait at all today for her second shot.
As for wasting doses, why take a vial out of the freezer if you don't have the appointments to use it?
A vial is 5-15 doses depending on the vaccine. Unless your number of people showing up is divisible by the number of doses in a vial, you're going to have extra. Once a vial is opened, it needs to be used in entirety or discarded.
Moderna is 15 doses. They started out at 10, but increased to 15 a month or so ago.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-pennsylvania-coronavirus-tom-wolf-appointments-1a-philadelphia-suburbs-20210325.html
Where I went, we get our card at the end, so at that point they don't know what arm had the injection. Heck, we even write our own name and birthday in!
Which arm? Seems like there's a bit of mis information with what arm is best, and the info is 50/50. Doesn't really seem to matter in the end. Some people say they can work out the pain from their dominant arm; others have no pain whatsoever regardless of the arm jabbed.
Well, this has now been explained. It turns out he has COVID-19, and he was probably just asymptomatic when he got his shot. He also has bronchitis. He thought it was just seasonal allergies at first, which often turn into bronchitis for him, but now he's laid up in bed. Meanwhile, his wife has already been fully vaccinated.
I wasn't quite a close contact. Before he knew he had the virus, he forced himself to come to band practice at church Wednesday night (thinking he just needed to push through his annual allergy-related bronchitis). Fortunately, I'm the drummer, so I sit more than six feet behind everyone–including him–and I'm half-shielded by plexiglass back there.
The irony is that he is one of the most COVID-careful people I know. He was/is a math major, and for the longest time he kept his family home from church activities based on various rate trends in our area. It's only been in the last few weeks, with rates declining sharply here, that he's come back for the first time since June or something like that.
I consider my own likelihood of having caught the virus from him to be quite low but not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Knowing the exact time of potential exposure, and since it was less than two days ago, and because the virus's incubation period seems to be around 2-3 days before shedding, I'm going through with my scheduled first-dose vaccination today after work. That way, even on the off-chance I do have the virus, I won't yet be contagious and the vaccination might get ahead of the replication process.
Fun times, boys and girls...
The needle I got was probably among the smallest I've ever had used on me for an injection.
In my case, short and thin. I hardly felt it at all.
Didn't feel shot #1 at all and barely felt #2
I didn't even feel the first shot. It was great.
I felt just barely enough to tell that I had been injected.
I didn't look at the needle. Maybe on Monday morning, when I go back for my second shot.
Geez, that sounds like a really rough thing to have to go through. Out of curiosity, have you ever talked to a therapist or psychiatrist about it? They may be able to help figure out a way to keep your brain from reacting to the stressful situation (as the brain sees it) with a blood pressure drop. Of course, that might be enough of a medical situation to trigger it, which would make pursuing that avenue tricky.
Brains are really weird, and it's hard enough keeping the body's hardware running in good shape without the software interfering...
I understand cynicism towards pharmaceuticals - I have a fair amount myself. But in this case, the circumstances present enables profit maximization - a novel virus that has disrupted world commerce with billions of people and trillions of dollars affected. Large masses of people will ultimately be vaccinated - kinda works for the business model, for both profits and health (often times it does not - see chronic condidtions and focusing on treatments versus cures, but that is a whole different discussion, not for this thread)
Do you consider everything that's been through a full set of clinical trials and received FDA approval to be "experimental" or only things that Newsmax told you not to get?
Probably thinks that it has stuff in it that will turn us into Lizard People. Speaking for myself, I welcome the opportunity to become of the ruling class of alien-hybrid overlords. I have my apartment picked out already in the underground lair at Denver International Airport. At least I'll be able to act as my own 5G hot spot by the time I get my second shot. Speaking of that, I guess I'm schedule for that second shot on the 8th of April.
I got my first shot on a military base. Basically they just gave me an appointment card that said to show back up on the 8th when they are doing shots again. I'm assuming this will include the two hour line I dealt with last time.
When I got my first dose, I got a card saying that the earliest I could get my second shot was 3/29, but no promise of available vaccine or appointment slots on that day. My county didn't send me the e-mail inviting me to set my second-shot appointment until yesterday morning, after a new Pfizer vaccine supply had come in. By then, appointment slots on 3/29 were starting to fill up, but I managed to get one. In the meantime, the county shifted its second-dose appointments to a center previously reserved for J&J shots, this one within walking distance of my apartment.
I've heard that other people in my county were also unhappy about the delayed invitation, worried that they had been forgotten, and also concerned about the very short lead time to schedule an appointment.
Pfizer can't sell Viagra (or any other long term medication) to anyone who dies from covid. So really, it's in their best interest to sell something that keeps people alive.
To that end this is why I signed up for the shots on the base I work on as opposed to Fresno County. There are a lot of stories about people being delayed from their second shot for one reason or another, but mostly supply. Usually the base is pretty through about letting people know where they stand before the actual day in question. It certainly is way more convenient for me since I can do it on my shift and have it go way faster than the real world.
(https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6QfY0iceT137C8X2lNvxhQHaFE&pid=Api&P=0&w=241&h=166)
Got my first jab today. Nearest place I was able to get an appointment was a one hour drive away. In and out in 30 minutes, never left the car. Shot given through the car window. No issues except a wee bit of soreness at the injection site.
And now to do the same thing all over again in three weeks.
Does it really matter how long the needle is? That certainly doesn't seem like a reason to not be vaccinated.
Rationally, no. But some people have a fear of needles that may prevent them from wanting to take the shot.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/1000/1*3WChFMXqt6t53y3q0iTPvQ.gif)
Which one did you get?
I got the Moderna one. J&J is exclusively for rural areas and homeless populations here, while Pfeizer is hard to find.
I'm not sure I realized how hard it was to find the Pfizer vaccine. But you're right: of my whole family (who is almost all entirely vaccinated), my sister is the only one who got Pfizer. Coincidentally, she's the only one who works in medicine (Overlake).
It's the opposite out here (New York). Very few people who have gotten a first dose in the past month-month and a half have gotten Moderna and most of the government sites are passing out Pfizer. J&J is very limited and, aside from a few batches that have been given at overnight sites, has mostly been reserved for rural areas and homebound seniors. Almost everybody I know of in New York who has gotten Moderna is either healthcare or was able to get in through an early priority group.
Re: eligibility, I'm in a weird situation where I would fall inside a priority group in several states...just not in my own. If I were to temporarily move to New Jersey, for example, I could probably get in for dose 1 this week. But since New York has weird criteria and requires proof to get jabbed...
When I got my first shot, the 15 minute observation period was spent shuffling through a socially-distanced queue to get to a station to schedule our second dose.
Then get the Johnson and Johnson shot. It's a more traditional vaccine that doesn't use the experimental mRNA method.
I normally tend to look away at the last second, but since I've never been more enthusiastic about a shot, I watched. It was no more than a flu shot needle (3/4", perhaps). No ill effects, be back for another dose in three weeks.
They didn't check any ID nor anything else - they just went on the honor system if you had an appointment.
That's the thing: states with narrower eligibility tend to have a higher acceptance rate. Connecticut has consistently been among the leaders in terms of vaccination rate and they were moving slower to open to additional people than many nearby states. Places that are bluer and whiter are more likely to be willing to get vaccinated now.
The same people that didn't give a damn about wearing masks and in turn had higher infection rates are also the people not bothering to get vaccinated. It's kind of maddening. Fortunately there are a couple of outliers like New Mexico that got crushed with Covid but they're leading the U.S. in highest vaccination percentages.
Chris
Not at all the case. I know plenty of people that never shut up about masks and staying home who won't get vaccinated, and plenty of people not fans of masks that are/want to get vaccinated ASAP. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm guessing the Venn diagram overlaps quite a bit though.
Also, good news for the New Yorkers on here. As of 4/6/21, anyone over 16 can get vaccinated.
Chris
The people who think masks don't help are also the ones who don't want to get vaccinated, especially if conspiracy theories are involved. There are other reasons not to wear a mask in certain situations (personally, I wear it indoors but not outdoors, and for runners, masks make you sweat) or not get the vaccine immediately (someone in their 20s might want to let older people have it first); this correlation doesn't apply to them.
There does seem to be some correlation between states that either had lax mask mandates (such as local-only) or no longer have a mask mandate, and states with less vaccine interest (easier scheduling and fewer restrictions).
Those who are "not a fan of masks" are likely to get the vaccine sooner specifically to help society get to a point where we no longer need a mask mandate, not because they don't wear them or something. But those who don't wear masks, or avoid any situation that might require a mask, likely aren't first in line for a vaccine as it seems (to me at least) they aren't as worried about the virus.
Just as studies have come out saying if we had followed CDC guidelines, hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved?
As Sweden tried to only go for herd immunity and now have one of the highest death rates in Europe?
Unfortunately, my trust will be placed elsewhere.
Chris
Almost everyone. The more interesting statistic: those who will actually get it.
For example: my idiot uncle would prefer to be part of the group of people who don't get it but don't need to because of herd immunity. But he definitely supports the vaccine. Just not for him. Selfish twit.
I don't know anyone who is a fan of masks. But it's just what we have to do for the benefits of others. I'll be vaccinated completely in two more weeks. I will still wear a mask when in public places after that (until the science says otherwise) because, while I will be incredibly unlikely to get sick, I could still infect others. Call me crazy, but I don't like having a non-zero percent chance of killing people by avoiding doing something so simple.
Chris
Personally I hate wearing a mask and wouldn't if it got the point where I didn't need to. Hell, I was called "selfish" in the original COVID thread for wearing a mask despite not liking it.
I mean... lockdowns and masks are radically different things. Lockdowns, except short circuit-breakers when cases surge, are pretty unnecessary - usually. Masks, I don't understand this. Life looks a lot more normal when one can put a mask on and significantly reduce transmission, and it's not much skin off your back to wear one.
The "pandemic playbook" you tout wasn't meant for a virus like Covid. It was meant for pandemic influenza, of the sort we saw in 2009. In other words, a bad flu season. But it also provided exceptions for a more severe flu pandemic. The plan from 2005 held that the government should "provide guidance... including those circumstances where social distancing measures, limitations on gatherings, or quarantine authority may be an appropriate public health intervention." Over time, as we've learned more about the virus, masks have largely replaced or supplemented distancing, which allows for more normal life. These restrictions are unsurprising. The only surprising thing is that we have a coronavirus, and not an influenza virus, but our response is similar.
This has been my point for a year or so. The government tied masks and lockdowns together, and therefore people against lockdowns tended to be against masks as well.
If there were no to little lockdowns, the mask thing would not nearly be a big deal as it is.
I didn't even really get a choice. When I got my first shot, the nurse just said "OK. Then you come back on the 14th at the same time to get your second," which was fine with me.
I don't know that I know anyone that thinks "masks don't help". I know people who won't wear masks because they think Covid is a hoax or "not that bad".
Chris
Yeah, I wouldn't have wanted that, because I was in the same room as a person with COVID for about 1½ hours on Wednesday. Even though I was not a close contact (more than six feet away and not facing each other and half protected by plexiglass), I was still concerned about getting my first shot. I wasn't concerned about being contagious yet (only two days later), but I was worried that the virus, if I had it, had begun to replicate in my body enough that the first shot wouldn't do me any good. Therefore, if I ended up coming down with COVID, then I would have been under the CDC recommendation to wait three more months before getting my second shot.
I still have zero symptoms, though, and statistically they would have shown up by today. My wife is back to kissing me again, as of yesterday. But I'll still wait until 14 days have passed before scheduling my next shot. Just in case.
I think the swing vote on a mask mandate is likely to be Becky Tuttle (District 2, far northeast Wichita). I expect my council member, Cindy Claycomb (District 6, central/near northwest) to support it, as well as Brandon Johnson (District 1, near northeast) and the mayor. The City Council is formally nonpartisan, but Johnson and Whipple are Democrats, Claycomb is unaffiliated, and most if not all of the rest--Jared Cerullo (newly appointed to District 3, southeast), Jeff Blubaugh (District 4, southwest), and Bryan Frye (District 5, far northwest)--are Republicans. (I don't know Tuttle's affiliation, if she has one.)
There has been some spread among the council members in terms of whether they rely on remote-only or hybrid formats for their district advisory board meetings, and I think that is probably indicative of their respective attitudes toward mask mandates. Claycomb has been remote-only all the way, while I think Frye has done hybrid meetings.
The City Council normally meets on Tuesdays but is not doing so today. I expect a mask ordinance to appear on the agenda for the April 6 meeting if the legislature follows through on its threat to overturn a renewed statewide mask mandate.
If I wound up in that situation, I'd simply cancel the second appointment.
If your community is like mine, there are a number of local government agencies and medical providers with public Facebook pages. It's fairly common for me to see a Facebook post in the early afternoon that the local Walgreen's will have shots available that day and the vaccine will need to be tossed if it's not used today. I'll bet it happens at least twice a week. If you're not doing anything and see such a post, you can often luck into a shot.
I've been reading that Kentucky has lots of vaccine appointments available that are going unused, and Louisville has opened up its vaccination to Indiana residents.
I'll probably check the pharmacy sites and see if I can fit something in sooner.
Oof.
Be sure to let us know when you've reached a zero chance of killing someone by airborne contagious disease, and then we can all check to see if Hell froze over. :rolleyes:
Does anyone know if there's a maximum recommended interval between first and second doses?
My wife gets her second shot Saturday afternoon, and she's not exactly happy at the thought of being sick on Easter from it–especially considering Easter got canceled last year.
If we didn't have the urgency of a pandemic that was killing hundreds of thousands, there would have been a variety of clinical trials testing the vaccine under different conditions, such as lengthening the time before the second dose. Of course, due to the time crunch, they only had the one set of trials, so we don't really know how much effectiveness decreases as the interval increases.
I mean, I get it that shit happens, but a little bit of sacrifice on my end for this one massive pandemic doesn't seem like a large price to pay. <shrug>
Chris
I think I remember Pfizer or Moderna saying that in emergency situations where there is short supply, an interval of up to six weeks between the first and second dose can be used.
I hear that's more rare. I only recall one or two other members here saying the same, for example (might be forgetting some).
That could mean that you previously had a case of Covid, perhaps without symptoms. Your body remembered, and fought off the new "invaders". I have heard some people that had it with more severe reactions to the first shot; others that had it had minimal reactions.
She was apparently one of 100,000 people to successfully do so today. (https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/coronavirus/article/Amid-onslaught-CT-books-100-000-COVID-16070979.php)
Of course, that's 100,000 people who successfully made an appointment out of 1.3 million who just became eligible. I am still in the other 1.2 million. Might take a bit to get out of that backlog...
But that's exactly the line that highway safety people recite: Even one death from a car wreck is too many. But deep down they know that zero fatalities is unachievable, so the phrase they use now is "toward zero deaths."
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
A Rasmussen poll (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/58_say_masks_should_be_required_until_everyone_is_vaccinated_against_covid_19) shows that 58% of people believe we should wear masks until everyone gets a vaccine. That was the wording. Not herd immunity, but 100%.
It takes a lot to overcome that ridiculous mindset.
FWIW, I was in the prior wave. 80k appointments were made that first weekend.
100k appointments in less than a day is an improvement.
I'm actually in the minority of folks who would like to see the masks become a permanent part of life. There are a few too many folks unwilling to self-isolate when they have "just a cold" or "a little flu", and I hate being exposed to their germs.
I think you're interpreting what the poll says a bit too literally. Most people are not hyper-analytical and will answer yes to that question if their opinion is "masks until herd immunity", because they'll presume without examining it too closely that that was the general intent of the question, or will think "yes" better resembles their opinion than "no", which might imply that they think masks can be ditched already or were never necessary.
Really, this is a structural flaw with polling in general. Depending on how you word your questions you can skew the results a lot.
Or, you know...
Yeah, I think I'm going to keep my covid masks around and wear them when I have a cold from now on, simply as a courtesy to everyone else.
Do the places you go not have their own mask policies, apart from state and local public health orders? I mean, I'm no longer under any mask order where I live, but the grocery stores still require customers to wear them.
Also, allow me to thank everyone for keeping the conversation civil this time around. This thread veers every so often away from the vaccination status topic, but it never gets out of hand the way the original coronavirus thread did on every other page of its existence.
Well, do they actually enforce this though? I've lost count of how many businesses I've walked into that have a sign on the door saying masks are required but inside the majority of customers and sometimes even staff members aren't wearing one. Tons of people ignore the signs and in the majority of the country no one will confront you for doing so.
That said, once you reach a critical mass of mask compliance you easily get to 100% because it simply becomes social expectation. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen an unmasked customer inside of a store around here since last May.
I interpreted it as everyone wearing a mask at home (i.e. Connecticut), but not everywhere in his travels.
I think that's an excellent idea. I'll do the same.
That is the correct interpretation.
But my point is that the rescission of any state or local ordinance won't necessarily change any of that. That is, the government lifting its restrictions won't necessarily make stores lift their policies, nor will it suddenly prompt stores to stop enforcing their policies, nor will it prompt people to stop confronting you about it. I expect a lot of that to remain the same afterward as beforehand. Exceptions will surely apply, of course, but, at the places I go, masks are still required regardless of government action. Even at the office, nothing really changed: only about a fourth of the employees were wearing their masks while there was still both a public health order and a company policy, and for the most part the same people are still wearing their masks and the same people are not after both the public health order and the company policy were voided.
That's been my experience this whole time here in Wichita.
Have you heard of Scentsy? They make wickless candles–pot warmers that heat scented wax by means of a light bulb or other heating element. Anyway, the CEO of the company got COVID back in June or July, and he still has "COVID nose". He said 20% of the scents his company makes smell awful to him now. Rather ironic, considering the business he runs.
I remember reading somewhere (can't remember whether it was someone interviewed for a news article or an Internet post) that the store the person worked at still nominally had a mask policy, but that the employees stopped enforcing it when the local mask mandate had been lifted, because "wear a mask or we'll call the cops" is a lot more effective than "wear a mask, it's company policy". When something is just company policy people want to argue with you because they think they have a chance at getting you to bend on it. "Wear a mask, if you have a problem with it tell the city council about it" is more likely to get the person to actually comply because it's clearer that arguing will do no good.
Of course, you're in the legal right to trespass a customer for not wearing a mask and call the police to enforce the trespass, but that has a bit too many steps to be able to shut down the line of thought that makes defiance seem like a good idea, and so they'll probably keep arguing.
Were businesses actually calling the cops beforehand, though?
I don't know about how common it is, but it does happen. I know at the casino I worked at there were people that were belligerent enough when asked by staff to wear a mask properly that the police got involved. I also saw, via the Washington Post, a bodycam video of a Texas police officer arresting a woman who refused to wear a mask in a Bank of America branch.
Most businesses, however, tend to err on the side of "don't make a scene, just take their money" for bad customer behavior not having to do with mask-wearing, so a business with that sort of culture is likely to let people slide on mask-wearing rules too. Frontline employees hate it, but if they'll get into trouble for refusing someone service, there's not a lot they can do.
A co-worker of mine was involved in an awful motorcycle wreck a few years ago. She didn't suffer a head injury, but something altered her sense of taste. Things she used to like she found tasted terrible.
I believe they've said two weeks.
You meant "doesn't mean you won't have the virus", not "doesn't mean you won't have the disease", right?
Considering that we will never reach a 100% vaccination rate, what exactly are you suggesting? Wearing face masks and keeping six feet apart from everyone for the rest of our lives? Count me out.
Also...
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Exactly.
Around here, the mayor was begging people to get vaccinated, because they have more appointment slots than people wanting to take them. The day you're imagining will quickly arrive.
Socially acceptable to wear a mask – I expect this to be true, kind of like how it already was acceptable in some other countries.
Plexiglass dividers – I expect the existing ones to stay up, but I doubt they'll be common in new construction.
Time off – I actually wonder if the opposite will be true at some places: employers expecting their employees to work from home instead.
That day has already arrived in rural parts of New York. The four largest metro areas are booked solid into late May, but you can get next-day (or even same-day) appointments in some rural areas if you're willing to drive. A lot of people are driving to Plattsburgh or Potsdam for their vaccines because the state vaccination sites up there have been wide open. I'm actually doing that myself, because I will then be fully vaccinated several weeks before I have a shot at getting in locally.
I don't think it's too much of a stretch. It used to be common for teller windows at banks to have a wrought iron or glass shield over the top with a small gap underneath to pass currency through–which is exactly what ended up getting installed at the casino I worked at after we reopened from the pandemic (but with plexiglas, of course). Box offices at theaters are still often enclosed in glass for no practical reason (it'd work just as well to have a ticket counter inside, like at an airport, but we expect a theater to have a glass box office outside so the practice persists for cultural reasons).
I'm more concerned with jobs that can't be done from home–retail clerks, bank tellers, budtenders, cooks, factory workers. Unfortunately, in these sorts of businesses, there's a cultural norm in the US to pinch a nickel so hard the buffalo shits on the employee, by scheduling exactly the number of employees they need to get things done–no more, no less. So if someone gets sick, there's no slack, and the employer has to try to scrounge up an employee to replace them and pay them overtime, or avoid the situation by guilting the sick employee into coming into work.
You still see those nickels in circulation?
Almost 940 million buffalo nickels were minted in 2005 as part of a special series of nickels.
I guess that depends on the nature of the illness or the reason for the sick day -- do you not feel well or are you going to a doctor's appointment?
For the first time, I finally have a decent bank of leave time built up, and I can attribute that to working from home. There are a lot of days that ordinarily, I would not have felt like going to work, so I'd either go in late or take the whole day off. I've been able to mitigate that by working from home, so I can still do something even if I don't feel like getting up and getting ready and driving 30 miles/45 minutes to the office. The only sick days I've taken since last March are for scheduled doctor's appointments. I can just take a few hours to go to the local doctor since I only live about 15 minutes from his office, but appointments in Lexington pretty much require me to take the whole day off. I've only taken one annual day (vacation) the past 12 months, and that was because of an emergency that required some errands to be done one day.
I have more than five weeks' worth of vacation time, two weeks' of sick leave, and seven days' of comp time accumulated.
We already had an inclement weather policy in place that allowed you to make up time if the roads were bad, but I look for that to be supplanted with telecommuting for those who are able to do so. Much like I expect snow days to become extremely rare for schools.
This is exactly how I got my 1st shot in MD (with my 2nd this coming Sunday) - I drove an hour and a half to Waldorf (southeast and still well within commuting distance of DC, but quieter compared to, say, Northern Virginia or Montgomery County).
Wait. What? First of all, both of the "2-step" vaccines are more effective than the "one and done"
Secondly, unless he lies about already being vaccinated, nobody is going to give it to him.
Rensselaer County opened up a few thousand appointments at Hudson Valley Community College Wednesday-Saturday of this week for anyone eligible in New York a few hours ago. Those haven't booked solid yet. I'm maintaining my Plattsburgh appointment because I want an excuse to drive up there, but if I didn't actively want to make the drive, I could easily move it to something local. A lot of those HVCC appointments seem to be going to students at the area colleges.
If I remember right, |Scott5114| has seen more rare currency in the last nine years than most of us will see in a lifetime, by virtue of his having worked in a casino.
The main variants identified so far have not shown to be vaccine-resistant. However, every time a new infection occurs, that increases the risk that the virus mutates into a variant that is vaccine-resistant. Thus the need for healthy, young adults to take precautions to avoid infection, even if they are unlikely to suffer serious illness.
That's what I've heard too.
I'm guessing it will likely be like a flu shot, where you get the shot every year based on what the best guess for mutations is. Perhaps unlike the flu, it might be only a couple of years of it.
Chris
See, I agree that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent, but would put forth an entirely different reason why: the percentage of the population in the US that is both able and willing to get vaccinated against covid is insufficient to render it as minor a public health threat as other diseases we don't generally worry much about due to vaccines. Masks in public ceasing to be warranted will thus have to wait for the people who can't and/or won't get vaccinated to gain immunity the hard way.
Well, I didn't give Doc Goodleech the 3rd degree. Being a doctor, I suppose he felt it paying it safe.
I have definitely seen a decent number of buffalo nickels. They certainly aren't as common as things like wheat pennies or bicentennial quarters but you do see them occasionally. They're nowhere near as rare as Indian head pennies or the nickels with the big "V" on the back (had one of those fall out of a bank roll of all things). Unfortunately, it's hard to gauge what normal circulation is from the casino, since we did get a decent number of transactions where someone had pretty clearly cleaned out their grandpa's coin collection to turn in for face value to get a $1 bill to stick in a slot machine.
Don't let any of that distract you from what I was communicating with the turn of phrase though ;)
Or we can just make them suffer the consequences of not being vaccinated.
If we reach herd immunity by having enough vaccinated, the virus will die out. If we don't, it won't go away, and we'll have to deal with new variants and possibly get new vaccinations to deal with the new variants.
That's just making everyone protect those who don't want to be protected.
Maybe. Or maybe not.
Given how Canada has been struggling with the vaccine rollout and is also having issues with new variants, it's safe to say that getting the vaccine out will reduce issues with future variants, at least in the short and medium term.
I'm not living in a deprecated state for years longer because some QAnon/RFK Jr types think vaccines are a conspiracy. They want to spread it among themselves and die from it, that's their choice. To paraphrase a famous Soviet boxer, "if they die, they die".
Right. That's the only reason anyone doesn't get a vaccine.
Before I was convinced to get it early (I'm still not eligible yet), I decided I would be one of the last adults to get it, since I'm only 22 years old. If I had kept that plan, I would have gotten it after most other people, but I did have a definite plan.
I was in the same boat until I learned about my tribal health authority offering it to all ages back in January. But I'm more concerned about those who have been eligible under an earlier phase but declined to accept the vaccine as they'd rather wait to see how it plays out. I'd love to know when those people will be comfortable getting the vaccine.
When the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines first received emergency use authorization, I set September 30, 2021 (end of the third quarter of this year) as an earliest date to seek vaccination, for the following reasons:
* I expected manufacturers to have much more difficulty ramping up production than seems to have been the case, and was very pessimistic about getting even half of the US population vaccinated by the end of 2021. We may still not reach herd immunity this year (or ever), but if we fail, it won't be because of supply constraints.
* I had no medical or occupational claim to priority, the most common underlying condition I don't share being BMI in excess of 25 (applies to 65% of Americans).
* I didn't want to spend much of 2021 in a cloud of impatience waiting for vaccine to be available.
* To keep waiting to a minimum, I preferred to engage with the process once demand had slackened after an initial wave.
So, by having my first shot on March 27, I have acted a full six months earlier than I expected. At the time I booked it, I did not know that the Osage tribal clinic in Pawhuska, Oklahoma had started taking all comers on March 11. If I had, I would willingly have made the 240-mile round trip twice for the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine.
There are three reasons I don't feel guilty about receiving vaccination earlier than called for in most of the prioritization schemes.
* Refusal rates have been high among earlier priority groups.
* I felt, and still feel, that I needed to start the vaccination process ASAP to counterbalance the elevated risk from covid variants and from governments prematurely dismantling nonpharmaceutical interventions (such as mask mandates).
* I had no interest in receiving the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, and it was easier to avoid when it still formed only a small fraction of the available supply.
At the time the poll was created, the J&J shot was not yet available. If you've already taken it, you wouldn't be wrong in saying you plan to take it when it becomes available.
There seems to be this paranoid school of thought that everyone who doesn't get vaccinated will get covid. I'm not sure why people think that. I've never taken a flu shot, and I've never had the flu. There's no reason for me to think that I'll get covid just because I don't take the shot.
The percentage vaccinated matters a lot more than whether any specific person gets it or not. If at least ≈75% get the shot (we don't know the exact number), we can return to normal life (maybe not immediately – if it's barely above the threshold, it will decrease slowly, but at least it won't increase). If at least 25% (using the prior number as an example) say "I'm not getting the shot because I'm not going to get COVID", the virus will continue to spread.
Getting COVID counts as being immune unless the variants diverge too far. If they do diverge, we could see it being like the seasonal flu, but I don't expect that to happen.
Typically, when a virus is required to mutate in order to survive, it becomes less deadly.
Also keep in mind that the 1918 flu lasted until 1920, and it hasn't been two years yet.
If we never reach herd immunity, then eventually we get a vaccine-resistant variant, and we're in pretty big trouble then.
So is that a yes? (not to imply you're the one I originally asked the question)
As time passes and we gain more experience with the disease, I expect management strategies to evolve. I certainly don't think it is a given that we will have to wear masks indefinitely, or that public health authorities will default to recommending mask wearing (in the teeth of widespread noncompliance) as the main mechanism for preventing spread. So, yes, I think we will return to normal in some form. My main concern about vaccine hesitancy is not that we will fail to reach herd immunity (a goal which I am not sure is achievable in the first place), but rather that a low vaccination percentage will tie us to worse outcomes in terms of a return to pre-2019 conditions.
I also continue to stand by my prediction upthread that we won't use vaccine passports. I think it is much more likely that business models that rely on congregation will be defended through indemnification. For example, if you choose to watch a movie in the theatre, your ticket may be sold subject to the condition that you don't sue the cinema chain if you catch covid on the premises.
I'm sure that, if such things happen, they won't single out COVID specifically–rather, any illness.
If we never reach herd immunity we shouldn't return to normal but given that some states essentially have already returned to normal or very close to it, that's not what will happen.
I had a mild case in December, and got the first Pfizer dose last week, and I've noticed something similar. I'd say my sense of taste and smell has been 40-50% of "normal" for the past couple months, but starting a couple days after the shot, it's improved a little bit. Not all the way, but I'd say it's more like 60% of "normal" now. I thought it was a coincidence too, but if I'm not the only one noticing that, maybe there's something to it. Whatever the case may be, I'm not complaining.
The Spanish Flu killed WAY more people, those 4% mortality rates being projected in early 2020 were way off the mark with COVID-19.
Speaking of vaccines today was the first day that I could have gotten my second dose. Give I'm on vacation and my wedding anniversary was yesterday I decided to hold off until next Thursday. Apparently with Pfizer vaccine the recommend timeframe from the second dose is 28-42 days after the first dose. I rather risk feeling like crap on a working day instead of when I'm off.
See, I'm the opposite. I scheduled both of my shots specifically to disrupt my work and church schedules the least: Friday evening for both. If I'm going to be sick from side-effects, I'd rather let my wife go grocery shopping without me than have the only person at work who knows what how to do my job cover for me there. However, I've already asked if the only other drummer at church is available that Sunday morning, just in case.
Cool!
For context, the vaccines are being administered as a program sponsored by my job. Logistically it would be infinitely easier to just walk out my office door to the vaccination site rather than making a 36 mile drive on my time off. Besides, I have so much unused vacation and extra staff right now that I really ought to find any legitimate reason to take as much time off as possible. I almost hit our vacation cap last year because I had two vacation cancelled due to other staff members getting sick or told to quarantine, I'm not going to be so selfless this year.
The recommended time frame is 21 days.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/second-shot.html
You can get it up to 42 days after the 1st, but it's heavily recommended to get it as close to that 21st day.
I see, either way it will be within that 42 day window handily. I'm more after the passport aspect of a vaccination then it being a genuine health concern anyway. After my wife caught COVID and had antibodies for five months I figured that I've been exposed enough to have some kind of decent immunity.
Now I'm wondering why the base I got my vaccine at was saying 28 days instead of 21? I wonder if that was a supply thing?
Yes, that's what is on my registration package. My CDC card also says to return for a second dose on/after 4/8/21.
I would go farther and expect this sort of indemnification to happen in state law in more "business-friendly" states.
This will depend on the jurisdiction.
New York is already specifically requiring that, in order to enter a venue of large congregation, you must produce proof of vaccination, a negative rapid test collected within the last 6 hours, or a negative PCR test collected within the last 72 hours.
But that's New York - most states will not do this, and many are already seeking to specifically prohibit businesses from imposing such requirements for entry.
I scheduled mine based on what time would make it easiest to ensure I would be able to get there without disruption from work, and in both cases that's 8:45 AM on Monday (first dose last week, second one a week from this coming Monday). I figure it's easier to get up and go get this done prior to signing onto work for the day, whereas if I start work and then try to take a break to head over, there's more chance of something coming up that will make it hard to break away, delay me, etc. If the price of that is feeling crappy later and disrupting my work day, oh well.
But how much of that will hold up? Every baseball ticket to a Reds game that I ever attended when I was a kid had an indemnity clause printed on the ticket -- user assumes all risks associated with the game of baseball including but not limited to being struck by balls, loose or broken bats, etc. -- and people were suing if they got hit by a foul ball line drive and winning.
I don't think it would necessarily be possible to prove exactly where you got the virus if you did get it. Everyone claimed Herman Cain got it when he attended the Trump rally in Oklahoma, but that was never proven. One of my first cousins caught it and she has no idea where or how. She wore a mask and had no known contact with anyone who'd had it.
If I'm correct, only one human disease has ever been eradicated by herd immunity in recorded history, so I don't think that's a realistic plan.
I think this is probably correct.
Herd immunity does not equal eradicated. Herd immunity means that we have reached a point where there is an upper limit on how quickly it can spread.
But you'll still get variants–just not as fast. What's your goal if not eradication?
Eradication is the goal, but herd immunity is a level you reach on the way to the goal. Herd immunity also puts us at a level where variants are going to become very rare.
This is where the slow rate of mutation and the effectiveness of vaccines against the variants is key. The influenza virus mutates fast enough that you need a new shot each year because the variants are too different and even then it's a crapshoot. The COVID vaccines aren't like that (at least at this point). As long as the main COVID vaccines retain their effectiveness against the variants, containment (if not eradication) is possible.
Kevin Stitt was maskless in the same section as Herman Cain and got it too, becoming the first governor to catch it. So it seems likely, though difficult to prove, that someone at the rally had it and gave it to both Cain and Stitt, or one of them gave it to the other.
I've read that in the UK, where there are far more lockdowns and observance of social distancing protocols, that contact tracing has led them to believe that people there often pick it up doing grocery shopping. Someone's standing in front of the meat cooler staring vapidly at the different cuts of meat, you squeeze by them to grab a thing of ground beef, and...
Well, how does one prove that kind of thing anyway? Do a DNA analysis of the virus in each person?
No, you don't prove it. You make reasonable assumptions based on when you first exhibited symptoms and how many people you were around 10-14 days before that date who began exhibiting symptoms a few days before you.
This is an open question. But even if a contract specifically disallows liability from a given cause, it is still open to challenge under the doctrines of unconscionability and non est factum. And once a case gets in front of a jury, odd things can happen (Bushel's Case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushel%27s_Case) comes to mind).
In Kansas, nursing homes have already received a statutory liability shield from covid-related claims.
I think New York may well end up being the exception that proves the rule. In Kansas, our governor (a Democrat, like Cuomo) has categorically ruled out vaccine passports. The Guardian has also reported (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/27/vaccine-passports-for-uk-pubs-not-a-good-idea-says-behaviour-expert) that the UK government has received advice from social psychologists to the effect that they amount to a negative incentive to be vaccinated, with a high likelihood of encouraging the vaccine-hesitant to dig in and not get the shot.
Nice. I wound up going to the statewide vaccination site in Quincy, run by Adams County, last Tuesday (4/6).
one of the first = not necessarily the first but before most others
New Hampshire starts the same 4/19.
To my knowledge, Colorado has never had a residency requirement.
Chris
NJ has allowed those that work in NJ but live elsewhere to get the shot. And being no evidence is required, anyone can come in from elsewhere as long as they meet one of the gazillion permissions.
I've also seen people say they've traveled into NY from NJ to get the shot.
Usually on the vaccine reports that states put out it's just a separate category. More importantly for you it means fully vaccinated.
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
The day after pretty much all the Nationals' players received that vaccine (although I note Roadgeekteen's comment that all the clotting issues have apparently been in women, so hopefully that holds true in this particular instance).
Women between the ages of 18 and 48
This is going to get people killed. 6 people had an issue and none of them died. Or we can not vaccinate people and assuredly people will die. Not to mention this will create vaccine hesitancy among people who were already on the fence. Idiotic messaging. It's tough to follow the science if the scientists in charge of this shit are that bad at math.
Chris
There are two sides to the coin. If it didn't become a big story and people thought it was being covered up, that would also reduce their trust in the vaccine. Ultimately, I think it does pay to be cautious. If the issued are looked into and resolved, trust in the vaccine and the process will increase.
This is quite a bit lower risk than birth control pills and blood clots
Like I said, it's all about the messaging. They could very easily have said "Yes, we have seen very isolated cases of side effects which are to be expected in any vaccine. We will be diligent in monitoring any and all adverse effects, but at this time, there is no indication that such effects are prevalent enough to make us doubt the vaccine's effectiveness." But no, they spaz out and pull something that will likely save something on the order of 5,000-10,000 lives. I don't get it.
Chris
I would argue it's the government bureaucrats in charge of this stuff. The government is stupidly risk averse. They're more afraid of lawsuits down the road than COVID.
How would you feel if you were one of the people that got blood clots? It makes sense to review it. It's not like people don't have other vaccination options, and many of the highest-risk people have already been vaccinated. No idea where the 5-10K number comes from.
Also, side effects and effectiveness are two totally different things. I wouldn't assume any adverse side effects are related to the vaccine effectiveness in any way.
Looks like MD is heading that direction too:
https://twitter.com/GoVaxMD/status/1381970583655710723
So is NC.
https://wr.al/1KL9W (https://wr.al/1KL9W)
So I guess on Friday I will be given something else.
I'd be unhappy if I were one of those people. I'd also be very unhappy if more people died than needed to. I came up with that number from something I read the other day saying if we maintained the pace of our current vaccinations until herd immunity, we'd save another 30,000 lives. J&J vaccines are a subset of all the vaccines, hence the 5-10K number.
Maybe I chose the wrong word, but when I said effectiveness, I didn't mean "efficacy". I meant that it was doing what we were trying to do, which is get this country back to normal as quickly as possible.
Chris
Take some time to look into it, yes, but these blood clots have affected 6 out of 6.5 million who got the J & J vaccine, or .00009%
Meanwhile, COVID-19 has killed 562,000 of 331 million Americans, or .0017%.
If Pfizer and Moderna can make up the difference, great. If not, it's still a better bet to get the J&J vaccine than none at all.
I just got home from getting my 2nd Pfizer shot. Will let you know if I get any side effects. My wife ran a fever and felt like she had been run over by a truck for several hours, beginning about 6 hours after her 2nd Pfizer shot.
You could say that about the other widely-used medications that cause blood clots and potentially fatal side effects that are still taken by tons of people. Again, birth control. 1 out of every 1000 people who takes birth control has a blood clot. 6 people isn't necessarily enough for a causal link.
In a sample size of 400 people. That has a high likelihood of being statistically insignificant.
Chris
And EVERY CASE was before the second dose. The two dose regimen is still pretty solid.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/rare-instances-south-africa-variant-evade-pfizer-vaccine/story?id=77020482
From what I understand, blood clotting symptoms cannot occur via mRNA vaccines, which both Pfizer and Moderna are.
It's like the J&J. Adenovirus based vs. mRNA.
Johnson & Johnson owns Janssen Pharmaceuticals.
Chris
My wife and I had to laugh at this. At least around here, they give you a free donut just for walking into the store anyway! Plenty of people take advantage of the situation. Half the times I'm in Krispy Kreme, more people walk in and get a free donut and leave than actually pay for something.
I don't know. To some degree, I liken it to someone breaking into your house with a gun. You're likely to rely on any weapon that's nearby to try to protect yourself whether that be your own gun, a knife, or a set of keys. Obviously some of those work better than others, but it's still better than not trying to do anything. (I'm aware this example isn't 100% analogous.)
Chris
That's not what I'm seeing in antivax circles. The opinion over there seems to be "see, we told you so, maybe the others also have problems".
People interpret the pause as "the vaccine isn't safe". Look at how Europe reacted to the AZ vaccine being pulled. Hesitancy over there didn't consistently decrease after the review process- it either stayed steady or increased in many countries and you have a lot of people unwilling to take the AZ vaccine now. This is becoming a big problem over there, as people are only willing to get jabbed if they can get Pfizer or Moderna.
That's me in a nutshell. I am in no way an anti-vaxxer, but I would still like to see a bit more research done before I get it. That's just part of my personality. I'm also iffy about the small risk of anaphylactic shock, because I'm deathly allergic to a couple things, and could see the new proteins in the mRNA vaccine potentially triggering such a reaction considering my other allergies. Dr. Fauci himself indicated this, and several European doctors recommended that those with allergy problems (such as yours truly) avoid getting the vaccine. I would rather get Covid again than stick an Epi-Pen in my leg.
Good, because I get my first in a week (Pfizer).
Most side-effects do seem to be minor, of the people I know. One's developed into bronchitis, and a couple had acute side-effects. But, other than the bronchitis guy, nobody I know who has gotten Pfizer has had side-effects last longer than two days.
I had scheduled the Shingrix booster shot for exactly two weeks from my second Pfizer shot. That was OK with the human being who took my scheduling call (non-Covid vaccinations are among the miscellaneous procedures you can't schedule online). But when I went in yesterday for my Shingrix appointment, the nurse sheepishly told me that the health plan's computer system wouldn't let her give me the Shingrix shot until two weeks plus one day after my second Pfizer shot.
So I went back today to get the Shingrix shot. Sore arm, like all my other vaccinations (Covid and otherwise) this year.
Just a cautionary note for those of you needing other vaccinations, and tempted to schedule them too close to your Covid shot(s).
And honestly, with the questions surrounding AZ's trial data, and how more issues seem to be found every time they're cleared up, there's no way in hell that I would have been willing to get that vaccine even BEFORE the blood clot thing. Plus who wants to take two shots for a vaccine that's no more effective than the J&J one that only needs one shot?
Even moreso than that, lack of critical thinking skills. You know how most people only read the headline of an article and immediately jump to conclusions? Yeah.
At any rate, I have to echo the sentiment that this is government bureaucracy... doing what it does. They're following the standard procedure for when a potential problem with a drug is spotted. Said procedure never considered the possibility that delaying administration of a particular drug might carry far greater risk than continuing to administer it in spite of a potential problem, because said procedure was not written with battling an active pandemic in mind. But since it is the procedure, the bureaucracy will follow it, consequences be damned.
The FDA is likely relatively powerless to push back against hesitancy arising from this issue anyway - freedom of the press means they don't get to control the message. Sensationalized news about blood clots was going to spread around and freak people out regardless of what the FDA did, so they might as well cover their asses.
Of course, that ass-covering will inevitably be interpreted as an admission from the government that the J&J vaccine is not safe, and this will persist long after the government clears it for use again. If you doubt this, look no further than how many people still say they will refuse to fly on a 737 MAX because they don't trust it is safe. When you approve something, pull it due to safety concerns, then reapprove it, you naturally trigger a "fool me once..." mentality in people.
Isn't one of the benefits of the mRNA vaccines that the the mRNA code can be quickly rewritten to target specific variants and mutations? So it would be possible for Pfizer and Moderna to release a vaccine v1.1 and administer it as a booster shot?
Problem is that, in my math education, we spent months and months on things like how to graph parabolas and didn't even touch on probability. No wonder Oklahoma has so many casinos...
A version of this happens in my field of work, too (Health Physics/Occupational Radiation Safety), when interacting with members of the public or employees who have no formal training with radioactive material and principles surrounding it. Because radiation cannot be seen or otherwise sensed by humans, a lot of people struggle with concepts surrounding the quantification of it.
For example I can talk about the difference/relationship between a foot and a mile and people understand what that is. If I instead say I have a (traditional unit) Curie of radioactive material (a large unit - 37 billion decays per sec) or a SI unit Becquerel (a tiny unit - 1 decay per sec). People don't really know what that means.
I am, however, confident that the CDC and FDA have a good understanding of probability and large numbers.
I haven't heard that from any person I know. The people I know just want to get whatever has the least severe side-effects.
Actually, I assume the procedures were written with that possibility in mind. Their job is to ensure that the products they approve are safe for use–and that job doesn't change just because of current events. Whether there is an ongoing pandemic or not, their job is still to ensure that the products they approve are safe for use. I imagine the possibility of greater potential harm was in everyone's mind, but they understood their responsibility to be for only their piece of the whole puzzle.
Yes, and in fact Moderna has a booster under development that specifically targets the South African variant (mRNA-1273.351; original Moderna is mRNA-1273). It remains to be seen whether testing and production can be expedited sufficiently to stamp out highly transmissible variants as they emerge. It is said that boosters won't need to go through all of the same studies as the original vaccine, but I'm not aware of even one SRA that has approved a booster.
I haven't not heard that from any person I know (well, OK, that is a slight exaggeration, especially given that most of the older people I know have been vaccinated for a while now). But it seems like a lot of people don't want to deal with the bother of getting two shots. I tend to think about it with a bit more nuance and I've been back and forth. At least for now, though, it's a moot point since the two-part is the only option.
An adult chosen at random has about a 8-10% chance that they received the vaccine within the last week (12-15% if you include each shot separately). This would mean that for every 10-12 celebrity deaths, on average, one of them would have received the vaccine within the last week. Nothing unusual.
VAERS is self-reporting (meaning cranks can put anything out there if they want) and therefore the CDC investigates to attempt to determine if the vaccine caused the adverse reaction.
CDC statement on COVID vaccines and VAERS - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
From Reuters:
Of the 145 million COVID-19 vaccine doses administered in the United States from Dec. 14, 2020 through March 29, 2021, "VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." Having reviewed "available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records," the CDC found "no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths" (web link above was cited).
6% deaths out of tens of millions of doses is at least 600,000 people. Pretty sure that many people dying in a ~3 month period would not escape notice.
I know someone who is terrified of needles. They only agreed to go with me to get jabbed because it was a single shot.
There can be only one.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/df/eb/4c/dfeb4caceb8262e99fd6bdb8b6de94b3.jpg)
Update three weeks later...
CT: 45.7% 1+ doses, 29.2% fully vaccinated
NY: 40.4% 1+ doses, 26.4% fully vaccinated
And by ranking:
CT: 3/50 shots per capita (was: 5/50), 5/50 fully vaccinated (was: 4/50)
NY: 12/50 shots per capita (was: 29/50), 12/50 fully vaccinated (was: 41/50)
So, CT is solidly still ahead of NY, and by about the same number of percentage points that they were a few weeks ago.
NY has climbed higher in the rankings than it was, though this is less a question of NY stepping up its game and more a question of a lot of states that were doing quite well before are running out of residents willing to get jabbed.
That is to say, they decide on the spot - probably whatever's been out longest.
Give it some more time. We'll pass you eventually. I mean, I know the rates per capita are to simply help compare across state lines, but we have distributed more than five times the doses than your dinky state (literally millions more). :D
That must've been one long needle.
Update on side effects. Didn't sleep very well last night due to a) not being able to lay on my left side and b) going hot and cold all night. When I woke up in the morning, I was a little bit nauseous, but that seems to have gone away for the most part.
Chris
Mad Vax Fury Road
They are very similar vaccines, so it should be fine, but since there were no clinical trials that mixed vaccines, so nobody can say officially that it's OK. The guidance has been that you should only switch from one to the other if you absolutely can't get a second dose of the same one within 8 weeks of the first dose.
Seemingly but the CDC doesn't recommend it since it hasn't been evaluated:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html#Interchangeability
And FWIW if I experience anything weird I'll be sure to note it here.
Mixing shots probably won't kill you, but--per what others have said--you have to take them as tested (i.e., two shots of the same type at the appropriate spacing) to know what you are getting in terms of immune response.
I don't know that anyone is yet systematically studying double-layering vaccines (e.g., two shots of Moderna followed by two shots of Pfizer). However, it has been reported that people who have had covid have had much more aggressive antibody generation following the first shot of one of the mRNA vaccines (I think Moderna) than people who have not had covid have had following the full course of shots.
Another update. Felt like crap most of the day today. Had chills, a headache, body aches, and a 100.8 degree fever. I was also super tired most of the day, and ended up working from bed and fell asleep with my work computer on my lap. More or less felt like having the flu without any congestion, cough, or nasal stuff. Drank a ton of water and starting to feel a little better. Hopefully a good night's sleep is on the way and I'm 100% tomorrow.
Chris
Ah ah ah, a few weeks ago you predicted NY would pass CT...
That is quite different from "eventually". No moving the goalposts.
But if it makes you feel better, we can check back in another three weeks and see where things stand.
Was the same experience for me, except no fever after checking three times throughout the day. Interesting how some people get a temperature and others don't.
I've never had a vaccination of any kind that gave me more than a sore arm.
Woke up this morning feeling 100% so far. Temperature is back to 98.6 and my arm even hurts less than it did. Glad those symptoms didn't last any longer than 24 hours. Well worth it to get vaccinated either way though.
Chris
I just read on CNN that that's not recommended, but taking it after is fine. Take that for what it's worth.
Chris
Did it say why?
Was trying to find the article, but it's escaping me. I'll keep digging. Basically since they said the vaccine's effects hadn't been studied with those medications in your system.
Edit:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/covid-vaccine-side-effects/index.html
Chris
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
I also agree with you, but I would be remiss if I didn't share what I had read at least.
Chris
Meanwhile, a family friend of ours asked the person administering the shot if it was OK to take Advil. They said stay away from Advil, but Tylenol should be OK if needed. :crazy:
Mind tricks affect how I feel as well.
Oh I know this all too well. Living with panic disorder means I have to acquaint myself with panic attacks far too frequently.
I was convinced I would feel 100% fine since I rarely, if ever, get sick. My wife always gets sick and didn't have any side effects at all. Of course that's why I was down for the count yesterday. Thankfully it was a slow day at work.
Chris
I really wanted that day off too. I could have done a podcast and at least one highway article. Really if I was thinking straight I would have just used vacation time since I have so much of it.
I had a TDaP shot once that had me in bed with fever/chills a few hours later (which was around dinnertime), and I ended up just staying in bed through the night at that point. But then I woke up the next morning and felt totally normal.
I have had another TDaP shot since (you're supposed to get one every 10 years) that produced no side effects whatsoever. So... not always consistent even within the individual.
But yeah, Pfizer dose 1 had my arm sore for about 36 hours. Otherwise NBD.
The nurse who gave me mine said that I could take OTC pain meds IF things got bad, but not to do so proactively. This seems to be in line with what the CDC is saying.
What I'm finding strange (I know you already know this from the other chat) is Moderna didn't even give me the same soreness the Pfizer shot did. That runs totally against the grain of what has been put out there regarding which one tends to affect more people. I guess it's a total crapshoot on what happens.
I just got back from getting my second poke and running some deliveries with my wife. I asked the nurse about Advil while she was filling out my form. She said, of course, that Tylenol is the recommendation, and that it should be your first choice. But, she said, Advil is not contra-indicated. So, absent Tylenol, she said your first course of action should be to take nothing, but Advil is OK as a second choice. She also mentioned that it is not recommended to take anything proactively.
Actually, I only ended up taking one Advil late this morning, and nothing since then. I never really take anything proactively to begin with, so it didn't take much of you guys talking about it to get me to decide not to take any more. But yeah, if I end up feeling miserable later, I'll go for the Advil.
If this wasn't a roads forum, I'd think that was sarcasm. :-P
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
At least with mine (having to go from Plainsboro to Mt. Laurel, NJ), I got to clinch Burlington CR 637 in the process (due to an accident on 295).
I didn't ask him because he only mentioned it shortly before 5:00 Friday afternoon when it was time to sign off for the weekend. I did suggest he stop at the barbecue place Mapmikey recommended in Oneonta, though.
He's eligible in New York because of his employment there. No issues at all on that front.
That said, there's not much waiting around for a vaccine in NY. Getting the appointment is the process. Once you have it, things go very efficiently. When I got my first dose at SUNY Albany*, I was in and out in just 20 minutes, including the 15 minute observation period after my shot. I've seen photos of people waiting in line in other states like people trying to buy a PS5 on Black Friday and just shake my head.
I've even heard of people making the Long Island-Potsdam drive... now that's a long trip!
*I do wonder about the move to Crossgates Mall that was just done yesterday. When I was there, it was like an assembly line - one door in, everything was one-way, separate door out. I do not see how a similar setup could be made at Crossgates, especially if one wants to allow transit access. Plus that area is always a zoo with shopping traffic, and they're adding vaccine traffic on top of it. :ded: I wish they could have waited a month so that I could get my second shot at SUNY Albany instead of there.
I'm getting my second shot... on May 7... right after the physics exam... an hour and a half from here. Have I cloned myself accidentally?
It was a side effect of the first shot. :-D
Punch a hole through Space Time by way of gravitational waves to get to your appointment on time.
I wouldn't walk across the room to take that shot.
Isn't NJ all screwed up with their vaccination process right now?
As far as Maryland goes, I was at the Waldorf site yesterday, and no lines until you entered the stadium parking lot, then only about 15 minutes start to finish. Makes me glad I opted for Waldorf rather than one in a more urban area like Timonium or M&T Bank Stadium.
Not that I know of. It's pretty easy to get an appointment now in NJ
I think it was more about age groups being released to get shots or something?
16+ starts Monday.
I haven't asked him, but I presume he probably got his first shot in New York when he did that in late March, so he likely went back to the same place. My brother did that–he lives in New Orleans and got his two shots in Biloxi. Shorter drive than my colleague made, though.
I'm taking the SATs on May 8, the day after the second shot. Driving with a sore arm will be awkward.
Starting to wonder here ... has anybody ever seen noelbotevera and Ketchup99 together at the same time? No? Aha!
Maybe they are clones and are on the verge of discovering the horrible truth finally?
Also, I'm a couple days the since the second dose of a mix/match 1st shot Pfizer and 2nd shot Moderna vaccine regime. No abnormalities to report, not even soreness. Apparently the reason it went down like that is due to the vaccination site (a military base) receiving Moderna vaccines this time instead of Pfizer. I have no idea if I had went at the four week interval like I was scheduled instead of five if that would have netted a second Pfizer shot.
That's because those articles are inevitably written by some of the most neurotically risk-averse people out there, or the types who are beside themselves that we haven't adopted the Australia model of "one case is too many, lock everyone in their basement until the virus is domestically eliminated".
There is no single appropriate answer to "When can I do X?", since it depends both on your own underlying health and your level of risk tolerance. And of course, people being people, decisions are made based on perceived risk... not actual.
And that perception gets muddled because, well... lots of people in the US definitely underestimate the risk of covid and don't take it sufficiently seriously. But at the same time, lots of people also tend to overestimate the risk and take it more seriously than is really necessary. I suspect that many of the latter are, consciously or unconsciously, attempting to compensate for the former.
It has been locally, but not on freeways AFAIK, since none of the local vaccination centers is especially close to a freeway.
* When I got my first shot at a one-day vaccination event on March 27, I had to sidestep congestion on neighborhood roads from people looking for places to park.
* The main county-run vaccination site is the old downtown library, which had sat largely vacant since it closed in May 2018 (the new building opened the following month). Even when it was still in service as a library, the parking lot to the south was like the surface of the moon (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6831016,-97.3389503,3a,75y,354.86h,92.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1semZYQibTDSnBgmBGTiFOvw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DemZYQibTDSnBgmBGTiFOvw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D149.98575%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192), with potholes hardly ever repaired. Now that much of this very auto-dependent city is filtering in and out for shots, there is an outcry for resurfacing.
(And good luck on your SAT! I'm a senior so I'm happy to be done with all that crap :) )
Most people that get the side effects usually get them later in the day or the next day, after the vaccine has had a chance to work its way throughout the body. The most common is soreness in the area and weakness in the arm.
Yeah, that makes sense. I feel mild fatigue now, but it's just too soon for it to be vaccine-related; it's almost certainly just mental and due in no small part to the dark and gloomy morning.
For those who wondered why my colleague in Weehawken drove all the way to Oneonta, he said last month when we first became eligible to get the shot in New York that was the nearest location to him with a close-in-time appointment; had he wanted to go to the Javits Center, he'd have had to wait "far longer" (his words). So he went back to the same place for the second shot.
Of interest on this forum, he also, said, "Of course, halfway through returning from Oneonta Saturday, the GPS did put us on a one lane dirt road after passing an abandoned castle. Trade offs."Anyone have any idea where that might have been? Edited to add: He just confirmed it was Dundas Castle. "It was extremely weird. First the GPS had us go on a one lane paved road through nowhere, then a castle loomed atop a hillside, then we were directed up a dirt fire access road."
Interesting. I had never heard of Dundas Castle until looking it up just now. I can't imagine why the GPS would suggest a routing along that road unless there was some unforeseen issue in or around Roscoe. NY 206 straight to NY 17 is by far the most logical routing.
I don't know and I don't really see much point in asking. I also didn't seek to clarify his references to "one lane roads." I assume he means a two-lane road (one lane in each direction), given that true single-track roads are extremely rare, if not non-existent, in the USA. Wouldn't be the first time I've heard someone use "one-lane road" in that way.
Understood - sorry, I wasn't trying to get you to find out, but I can see how it came across that way.
"One-lane road" could also mean a road wide enough for two cars, but with no center or shoulder lines, as distinct from most two-lane roads used by thru traffic which tend to have both. Unfortunately there's no Street View in the area, but what I can see in satellite view generally supports this view.
I decided to take no meds–Tylenol or Advil–following my second jab Friday evening, unless side-effects kept me from sleeping during the night. So the following is an account of my side-effects of the second Pfizer dose with no analgesic/anti-inflammatory drugs.
FRI 7:00 PM – Got the shot, just site soreness, nothing else
FRI 8:30 PM – Decided to have my weekend cocktail a day early, in case I felt like crap later
SAT 7:00 AM – Woke up after a good night's rest, still just a sore injection site, nothing else
SAT 9:00 AM – Began to experience mild chills and body ache, which increased with time
SAT 12:00 PM – Jacket and stocking cap on full-time, most of my time spent under two blankets
SAT 2:00 PM – Began to feel slight shortness of breath–as if a deep breath might make me cough
SAT 3:30 PM – By this time, had taken a hot bath and also a brief nap
SAT 9:30 PM – Went to bed still feverish and physically shivering against my wife
SUN 5:00 AM – Sometime around then, the fever began to break
SUN 7:00 AM – Got out of bed, feeling 85% normal
SUN 9:00 AM – Went to church, mainly just a little groggy but otherwise feeling almost normal
SUN 1:00 PM – 100% normal, well enough to chores around the house
Even though I felt quite feverish most of Saturday, my temperature was actually only one or two degrees above normal. The body aches weren't as bad as having the flu, but I still felt pretty miserable all day.
I'm glad I had someone else cover for me on drums in church yesterday, because one of my side-effects was a weakened hand grip. That's kind of important for playing the drums.
Onset = 14 hours after the shot
Duration = 22 hours from onset to almost normal
Looks like your symptoms and timeline were pretty close to mine. My onset was a little later than yours (around 20 hours or so).
Chris
I'm not sure which vaccine my mom got but, with the soreness in her shoulders, she said she would have thought she was having a heart attack if she hadn't already known that might be a side-effect.
It does make me wonder if anyone has ignored the signs of a heart attack because they thought it was just vaccine soreness.
I should note that I have no idea whether my colleague was using it in that sense or in a more generic sense. I don't know where he's from, though he did go to Fordham Law School.
Thanks for this information. This morning I mainly felt intense fatigue like I haven't felt in years, plus a mild headache, but as the day has gone on I've started getting downright cold despite it being 74° outside (I just put on a sweatshirt and I'm still cold). Clearly vaccine-related. Took me longer than you to feel it, though–I got the shot at 8:45 yesterday morning.
Wouldn't that technically be soul/life force harvesting?
Hey, keep that sort of talk in the Alanland thread.
I signed off work at 3:00 and went to bed. Sheet, two blankets, and the bedspread, plus had my socks on, and that was about just right in terms of warming me up. Woke up at 6:15 to hit the head and then I was too warm when I went back to bed, so I got up. Being so cold reminded me of how my father was in the month or two before he died–he was always cold and would even have on jeans and polar fleece on an 85° June day. If a vaccine can do that to you, the virus must really be something.
So for me, it was closer to 30 hours before the worst of the side effects hit.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
We're reaching the point in the mass vaccination process where most of the people who actively want the vaccine are at least scheduled. Slowdowns due to demand dropping off due to access issues or general resistance are or will soon start to happen, to one extent or another, across the US.
I'm not scheduled yet, and having become eligible just two days ago along with a whole bunch of other people, I don't expect to be soon.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
How convenient is it for someone to get a vaccine in these circumstances? For me it was because all I had to do was walk a couple buildings over and wait in a short line. My wife conversely has no interest nor the patience to wait in a mass vaccination line with her car idling for over an hour. Her take is that it is better to wait until a more convenient means is available to her. I would have been of the same mindset had I been presented with the same means of availability. I think a lot people don't consider things like that when they call people "stupid" for not getting the vaccine as a blanket statement.
Unless things are drastically different downstate, perhaps, there appear to be no lengthy lines here in NY at our sites to rationalize a delay. The appointments are well-staggered and organized.
So, keep in mind the context of our little race between CT and NY.
Hour-long drive-thrus would indeed suck and I haven't experienced with anything like that, even at our testing sites.
From other posts in this thread, things are drastically different downstate.
I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals. Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it. The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing. At least that's the way it is in Wichita. I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.
Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.
Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.
And, see, I say it's a moral failure to slander a career school nurse you don't even know as someone who doesn't care about protecting people.
Well, it's more complex than that. A large percentage of people refusing to get vaccinated are racial minorities, who for quite understandable reasons have a culturally ingrained distrust of government. There is, in fact, some specific baggage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study) with the government offering what they claim to be free medical treatment to minorities...
But regardless, it is because of this that New York (55.1% non-hispanic white) will have a lower voluntary vaccine uptake rate than Connecticut (71.2% non-hispanic white), and at this point therefore really has no chance of catching up to Connecticut.
Even within Connecticut, the effect is visible. On a town by town basis, how many people have gotten vaccinated most obviously correlates with what percentage of the town voted for whom in recent elections (https://www.ctinsider.com/news/coronavirus/ctpost/article/Analysis-CT-towns-with-lower-COVID-vaccine-16113566.php). However, towns with large minority populations (e.g. Hartford, Bridgeport, New Haven) jump out as clear exceptions to this trend.
People's wait times have been very uneven, as can be seen just from the reports in this thread. My father, who has had his two Pfizer shots, reports waiting for over an hour for the first shot and less than fifteen minutes for the second. I suspect a large share of those who still haven't been vaccinated do plan to get the shots, but are waiting for enough slack to develop in the system that they are virtually guaranteed a short wait when they do go. This was actually my original strategy, but I felt I had to change course when mask mandates started unraveling here.
From a retired music teacher at a Catholic school: "I just don't believe in vaccines." I think the lesson here is that education and intellectual capacity don't necessarily add up to acceptance of empiricism.
From the dude who came to clean out our air ducts a couple weeks ago: "I dunno, I'm not sure it's safe, what if we start finding next year that people who got vaccinated start having nasty problems from them".
This seems to be one of the most common reasons in general, especially among relatively young healthy people who perceive their risk of covid itself to be low and would rather take their chances with it as "it's the devil we know".
The upshot is most of these people are willing to get vaccinated eventually... but, unfortunately, the point at which they become comfortable doing so may not be in the near term.
My mom's haircut lady apparently doesn't want to get it because she thinks it causes infertility.
For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.
Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.
Then they trust stupid people. Or are being kept from the vaccine by stupid people.
Life here has pretty much reopened and returned to normal. Putting a mask on when entering a business that requires it–that's about the only non-normal thing anymore, and that's required whether you've been vaccinated or not.
Well, don't be surprised if most people don't take more precautions than the current CDC guidelines.
The threat of a potential scenario that isn't actually happening–that's not exactly strong, compelling motivation for someone to get something they're already worried about the long-term effects of.
Is it too early to assess the long-term consequences? I'm not sure. That's a question I've been pondering for the last month or so. Just as one example, I find the possibility that traffic may never return to pre-covid levels very depressing, so I try not to think about it too much.
I wasn't speaking for your area.
Forget the line comparing Aprils - isn't this the case everywhere?
Less traffic makes roadgeeking less fun. It also means there's less to talk about. And it's sad to think that fewer people are out traveling. It's just another sign that "normal" isn't really "normal".
There's a thread for statements like that. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28884.0)
There's less people commuting, although there seems to be quite a number of people traveling.
Well, you're still going to have to get more specific.
New Hampshire's mask mandate expired April 16 and removed capacity limits. Other states in the northeast continue to allow greater capacity limits, most at 50% and above. At least in my state, I'm having a tough time determining if anything is really being enforced beyond very obvious violations (no seats at the bar, for example). There was an issue at an outdoor raceway on Sunday, where the State Police shut down a venue due to "Capacity Limits"...even though at the time of the shutdown, they were still well under the Covid-capacity limit of the venue at the time. There was a lot of congestion on the roads leading to the raceway, causing many to believe local officials and residents, some of whom are not fond of the race track, may have made some calls.
1. Many cities and towns had a mask mandate in New Hampshire before the statewide one went into effect. Some of the citywide ones are probably still in effect.
2. New Hampshire is leading the country (i.e. #1) in percent with at least one shot, unless the New York Times has a typo.
3. New Hampshire is the only Republican-controlled state in the entire area; surrounding blue states probably won't remove mask mandates as quickly. (Some of the surrounding states have Republican governors, but they have Democratic legislatures. Republicans also control the state legislature in New Hampshire.)
Huh? They still resulted from Covid. I guess I should have trimmed out RGT's bit, because my point was simply about whether things are normal, and really had nothing to do with the implications of the vaccine.
No, that's for un-popular opinions. :-P
Alabama is often cited as one of the worst states in percent with at least one shot, and they eliminated their mask mandate also. So...not a perfect reason. And regardless of the reasons, the statement I responded to, which you excluded, was "the northeast is a lot more strict". Clearly NH is not. There also wasn't a comparison made, so "more strict" in respect to what? Kansas? Florida? California? The Northwest? The entire rest of the country?
Busy roads are a sign of normalcy, and in fact, probably one of my favorite signs of normalcy.
Traffic gives us something to talk about on this forum, and something to grumble about while making our morning coffee. It makes road trips more interesting, and provides us with better stories to tell when we return - especially to the big cities, where traffic is an integral part of the travel experience. Traffic gives us a reason to dream up interchange improvements and widenings and new freeway corridors, free of any "well, this was needed before Covid" disclaimers. Historically, traffic is also a sign of a good and/or improving economy and heightened economic activity. Positive vibes all around.
"Some of them, I assume, are good people." - The Former Guy
Of course, the actual act of sitting in traffic on a freeway isn't as fun as cruising at 70 mph. But it does keep you alert, and is usually also memorable in a way that cruising at 70 mph isn't.
And to be clear, I'm referring to higher traffic volumes overall, not just traffic jams and delays.
As a driver, or passenger?
(I can give an opposing case either way, but no point in typing both if I don't need to! :-P)
That doesn't necessarily contradict what |NE2| said. They can be pro-vax but still fail to provide accessible sites.
(Edited to add: Such does not make them stupid, however.)
If you don't think it's safe, you're listening to the wrong people.
So, don't be stupid: Get vaccinated.
But, but, but, kernals12 has told us that "overwork" is a myth because technology means we can get our jobs done in less time so we have more time off, which in this case would mean no problem taking off for side effects.
(Yesterday I didn't ask: I sent a message saying I was signing off to go take a nap and I explained why. My boss's reaction was along the lines of that I should have signed off sooner.)
I would compare it more to dzlsabe or HighwayStar. FritzOwl doesn't even acknowledge criticism; dzlsabe and HighwayStar push back.
However, I'm on the "you do need to get vaccinated" side of the debate, just without the insults.
I chose this post for a reply instead of the original post or Kyle's rebuttal.
I reject both arguments. Not getting the shot is not an unintelligent decision, nor is it an immoral decision.
I have weighed the pros and cons and for various reasons, have determined that I will not be taking the shot. I'm not an "anti-vaxxer" by any stretch, but I'm skeptical of this particular one. I got all the popular childhood shots as a kid growing up in the 1960s, but I have no memories of ever being vaccinated for anything. I couldn't tell you the last time I got a tetanus shot. Maybe in five years, if covid is still around and causing major problems and no long-term issues have manifested themselves among the vaccinated, I will reconsider. But I have never taken a flu shot and I've never had the flu -- including last year, when in February I had close contact with someone who tested positive for the flu later that day; contact close enough that if he'd had covid and not the flu, the government would have tried to imprison me in my own home for two weeks.
I have my doubts about the long-term safety of the shot, since it is so new and relatively untested, and also do not see an individual need for me to take the shot. There are a number of other factors that led to my decision. My risk of contracting covid as I go about my normal life -- meaning life prior to February 2020 -- is relatively low. Which means that I'm not at risk of spreading it to others, especially since it's been stated that you can still catch and transmit covid even after having taken the shot. And my taking the shot would do nothing to protect others since the vaccinated can still spread the virus; others can choose to get the shot, wear masks, keep distance, stay home, or whatever else they feel they need to do.
I would neither encourage nor discourage anyone to get the shot. Contrary to popular belief here, it's not the right decision for everyone. I would instead hope that they evaluate their own individual situations and come to a decision with which they're comfortable. I'm perfectly comfortable with my decision. I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
It most certainly can. The more people who do not get vaccinated, the longer the virus can spread, and the longer it spreads, the greater chance that a vaccine-resistant strain emerges and kills me even though I got vaccinated.
From the article you referenced:
We already have two variants that have better vaccine resistance than the original. While these may not be able to cause severe disease, the fact that they can infect vaccinated people at all means there is definitely the possibility of a more potent variant in the future. We need to get to 60-70% of adults vaccinated ASAP.
It has in New York. State guidelines require you provide a recent negative test or proof of vaccination in order to attend any large event. Of course, that's New York - most states are not doing this.
Thank you for providing a great example of why I've been banging my head against walls for months enraged at the fact that afraid-of-their-own-shadow public health officials and fearmongering media outlets alike keep repeating this.
This whole "vaccinated people can still spread the virus so still need to exercise all precautions" business needs to stop. It is actively damaging to public health efforts because of exactly what is seen here - it is a flawed premise which encourages people to arrive at flawed conclusions such as "getting vaccinated does nothing to protect others, therefore I have no social responsibility to do so since this decision only affects me" or "why should I bother getting vaccinated if it doesn't enable me to return to living like normal".
The actual fact of the matter is... because clinical trials were expedited for the sake of emergency use, how effective the vaccines are at presenting a vaccinated person from transmitting the virus was not studied. Thus, when vaccines were first approved for emergency use, the risk-averse bureaucracy we have said "since we don't have data on this, we need to play it safe and assume that vaccinated people may still be able to spread". The media and the general public, however, aren't good with nuance and just heard "vaccinated people are still able to spread", even though if you listen closely that's not actually what the experts said.
Meanwhile, in the months since, a fair body of data has been collected which suggests that yes, in fact, vaccines are fairly effective at preventing the vaccinated individual from transmitting to others, though exactly how effective has still yet to be firmly quantified.
Nonetheless, it was far-fetched from the beginning that a vaccine which is 95% effective at preventing illness would somehow be 0% effective at preventing transmission. This is not consistent with how any other vaccine works, and it fails a basic sanity check besides. All it ever actually was was advice to, out of abundance of caution in the face of lack of data, assume the worst case theoretically possible. It was never a statement of confirmed science.
The one concern here that I think is valid is that we haven't had enough time to test the long-term safety data. We don't know for sure that the shot is 100% safe long-term, because the first person was only injected with it thirteen months ago. And I'd also agree that your personal risk is your personal decision, and that your weighing your risk of getting sick from Covid against your risk from the vaccine is up to you alone.
But the issue, the way I see it, is that your decision on taking the shot does affect other people. "My shot won't help others because the vaccinated can still transmit" - that's not entirely true. The Pfizer and Moderna shots have around 90% efficacy at preventing transmission, and Anthony Fauci or anyone else who says the research suggesting that "isn't enough" is hedging his bets so hard that he'll probably be wearing a mask until the day he dies. (This is part of what bothers me about those suggesting that a vaccine shouldn't mean the end of masking and distancing - it totally disincentivizes people from getting a shot by being quiet about the fact that it really does protect against spread.) Getting a shot nearly entirely eliminates your chance of spreading the virus. To be honest, despite CDC guidance to the contrary, I'll be hard-pressed to avoid going back to 2019-type life - unmasked hangouts and the like - once I have my second shot and know that the odds of my contracting or spreading Covid are near zero.
As to the risk of long-term health impacts - it's worth noting that almost no vaccine on the market has a history of frequent unanticipated long-term effects, and nothing in mRNA research suggests that this shot would be any different.
(EDIT: Duke87 said exactly what I said, only better. I second everything in the above post.)
+100000000 to this and the reasoning that followed.
I'm pretty sure even CDC guidance allows for private, unmasked, social distancing-free gatherings among fully vaccinated people, or with up to one household not fully vaccinated if the non-vaccinated people are low risk.
Oklahoma actually did hand out a big "I'm Vaccinated!" sticker at the site where I got my first dose. Except the nurse that vaccinated my wife forgot to give her one, so she dug around in her purse and put on an "I Voted!" sticker she had in there instead.
I've seen that studies from past vaccines have actually shown that paying people lowers vaccination rates, because then people think "if it was any good they wouldn't have to pay us to get it".
Amusingly I more or less was in a backhanded way. My employer provided the vaccine site in a convenient location and allotted time for me to go get it. It sure motivated me to deal with a potentially long line that I would have otherwise might have chose to avoid given I was working. Granted I also think we will require the vaccine soon unless there is a justifiable medical exemption.
That certainly makes me feel better about everything - the same people that are opting to not get the vaccine "out of personal choice" are one and the same as the people who would leave the house if they actually got Covid.
But it does. If you're the one that "keeps the virus going" and eventually mutations are created that bypass vaccines, it certainly affects me.
Chris
At my sister-in-law's workplace, they were handing out "I'm Vaccinated" masks. Since she -- a person with two college degrees who will be earning her third degree, a post-graduate degree, this weekend, so she certainly doesn't qualify as "unintelligent" -- is not taking the shot, they told her, "You don't get one." She replied, "I don't want one!"
I'm surprised that a market for "I'm Vaccinated" masks hasn't popped up yet. Indeed, I'm seeing more and more masks on clearance in retail stores. The market seems to have become saturated.
I've actually pondered this. If they paid me a life-altering sum of money (minimum of six figures) then I would consider it. For a payment more closely resembling one of the recent stimulus payments, which is an idea that's been floated? Nope.
I hadn't ever gotten a flu shot prior to this previous year either. I always had the mentality that I didn't really care if I got the flu. Corona has made me reevaluate myself and now I think I was just being ignorant. I will get the flu shot every year from here on out. It's not about me.
Even if I don't get it, I don't want others to get it. It's not about me.
Chris
Both of those conditions are more likely if he doesn't get vaccinated, and that increased likelihood multiplies the more people who don't get it.
It's free, it's been shown to be safe, and it does your part to protect the entire country. It's pretty selfish to not get vaccinated and refuse to help protect others.
The flu is still less deadly than covid, especially for older people, so there's a lot less risk associated with spreading it to elderly and other high-risk individuals. Also, the swine flu is different than the regular flu, so the "six figures" is a major outlier.
It's funny the way your worldview changes when you're personally affected by something, but doesn't when you're not.
I'll tread lightly per TOS, but it's also worldviews based on science vs. something else. I'm not trying to say that I'm willing to jump through a million hoops to try to prevent anyone from ever getting sick again. Obviously that is a fool's errand. I am willing, however, to get stabbed in the shoulder twice and feel like crap for 16 hours to prevent adding any totals to the already 3 million people that have died. ::shrug:: I guess the Nazis taking over the world could have been God's will and we shouldn't celebrate the Greatest Generation for making a far greater sacrifice to save lives.
Chris
I kind of feel like I have a fatalistic view on life compared to most people. From the get go I was pretty skeptical with COVID and wondered if the degree of panic and regulations in the long run would have done more harm than the virus itself. For me it certainly hasn't changed much in my own life, it was/is just another obstacle to overcome. I've certainly been far more affected personally by things like heart disease and cancer killing relatives. Even in my own life I've had what I would deem to be subjectively scarier health concerns than what COVID presents.
I came to conclusion after both my Mom and Dad died from cancer that it wasn't worth it for me to living in fear of the same happening to me. I guess for me it is hard for me look at something like COVID and take it as seriously/be fearful as many are. The way I see it is that I along with everyone I know has a 100% chance of death and it would be in all our interests to attempt to do something meaningful with ourselves before our time is up.
But yeah, I'll take a vaccine and wear a mask if that's what is required of me. That said, I won't anyone ever tell me again that seeing family or even trying to maintain my own physical health is a bad thing.
Then why did you say "But it does" in response to "My not taking the shot doesn't affect you"? Did you mean secondhand? As in, your sympathy for other people affecting you?
Yes, I know that. And I assume that, by this point, you know I know that. But you guys keep stating as fact something that is only hypothetical. Don't be surprised when the other person isn't convinced by that kind of statement.
So back to what I said earlier: are people selfish to not get the flu shot? Heck, chickenpox for that matter? While I don't believe that people who don't get vaccinated for those things are necessarily selfish, I still somehow hope that your reasoning is consistent enough for you to say yes.
Dipping a toe into the religion pool... To say that shit happens and that's part of life is not the same thing as saying "Shit happening is God's will". That's a whole theological debate I enjoy having, but this forum is not the place for it.
I first read that as "have a fantastic view on life". And, honestly, I think both might be true. Your comments during this time have been some of the most level-headed, refreshing comments I've personally read. I think your perspective is enviable. You've shaped how I think during this time more than probably any other member on here.
I wouldn't say my attitude to the flu shot has changed. I have had influenza several times, so I know what it is like. I have also gotten the shot in autumn or winter some years, though I haven't made it a habit to get one every year. There are some key differences between flu and covid:
* Risks of death and life-altering complications (such as permanent damage to organ systems and long covid syndrome) are at least an order of magnitude higher, even for low-risk groups, with covid than with the annual flu in most years.
* Flu does not spread asymptomatically, unlike covid, so the backup strategies for preventing transmission of flu (in the absence of effective vaccination) are less burdensome than for covid.
* The production process for flu vaccine dates from the 1940's, relies on chicken eggs, and involves long lead times to manufacture at scale. This leads to several problems. First, experts have to guess at which strains will be active in a given flu season about 18 months into the future, and in some years they guess wrong. Second, sometimes the viruses mutate during the production process, so the resulting vaccine is sometimes not effective even against the strains it is designed for.
Debora MacKenzie's Covid-19: the pandemic that should never have happened and how to stop the next one (likely available at your local public library) goes into further detail on these differences, other reasons response plans designed for flu pandemics don't necessarily work for covid, and misconceptions such as the common assumption that mutant strains will tend to be less virulent.
In this thread, I'm trying to steer clear of making a hard sell for covid vaccination, because I believe that comes with a high risk of calcifying vaccine hesitancy into refusal. Also, as about 87% of those participating in the poll have signaled that they have received or plan to receive the vaccine, this is probably not the best place to find those who are still vaccine-hesitant. I'd just note that with original covid evolving into more transmissible and more virulent strains, some of which are likely to be vaccine-resistant--such as B.1.1.7 with the E484K mutation--our battle is far from over. Michigan is spiking hard even though it has a high percentage of the population vaccinated. India is spiking even harder, to the extent that oxygen is being diverted from industrial production to hospitals, even though it too has a vaccine.
Because it very well could affect me either a) me getting it or b) someone I know getting it. I just think you'd be pissed if your parent or close relative died from Covid and it could have been prevented by something so simple. I actually had a family member pass from Covid, and I think a lot of the people who didn't have anyone close to them seriously get affected have far different points of view than those of use that had to attend a funeral.
Agreed it's not the place for it here re: religion, but my point was that sacrifices occasionally have to be made to prevent bad shit from happening, even if bad shit is part of life. This sacrifice is incredibly minor compared to an 18 year old in 1941 signing up to go to war.
Chris
Umm..
And for me, I'm far less concerned about getting it than I am about spreading it. I'm young and healthy. I don't want me to be the reason that someone else that isn't young and healthy gets it. That's why I take precautions.
Even as a liberal dude, I quite agree with this.
Chris
This is the main reason why I don't bother getting a flu shot. I'm not vaccine-averse, but there's so many places the flu shot can go wrong that I don't feel it's worth the hassle. I also haven't had the flu since I was a child, despite working in an environment where it made the rounds among our department most every winter.
Now that mRNA vaccine is proven technology and not restricted to the drawing board, it's possible on a technical level to make flu shots that are custom-written to target strains known, and not just predicted, to be in circulation, and which could be patched mid-season to cover any mutations. I would be more likely to get an mRNA flu shot if one were available.
I caught chicken pox at age 14 from a first cousin once removed who was about three years old at the time. She had a mild case that was gone within 24 hours. I was incapacitated for a week and had to miss a summer program I was looking forward to. I have also known older adults who have had painful cases of shingles. As a result of these experiences, I have no problem whatsoever with chicken pox vaccination being a precondition for attending public school.
I know deaf people only slightly older than me who lost their hearing in the womb when their mothers had rubella shortly before a vaccine became available. So, again, I've never had a problem with the MMR shot being required.
Need I go on?
Well, just enough to actually answer the question. Are you claiming that those who don't get those vaccines are selfish people?
(I realize, of course, that most people get these as children, but not all do.)
From E. Patrozou and L.A. Mermel, "Does Influenza Transmission Occur from Asymptomatic Infection or Prior to Symptom Onset?", Public Health Reports 2009 Mar.-Apr., 124(2), pp. 193-196:
I accept that "Does not spread asymptomatically" is probably an overgeneralization for flu, but the stylized fact is that the large role asymptomatic transmission plays in the spread of covid is one of the biggest reasons countries with advanced public health capability--such as the US and the EU countries--failed to achieve containment. In the absence of specific information as to the role asymptomatic spread plays, countries had to make bets on whether it was large or small. The side of that wager that South Korea, Taiwan, and New Zealand took turned out to be a minority position.
Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think a lot of the reason behind the messaging we're getting now is politicians and public health leaders realizing that as soon as this pandemic is over, whatever special status or power they've gained over the course of the past year is going to go away. So naturally they're trying to hold onto those extra powers as long as they can.
The fearmongering clickbaity articles you'll see scattered around social media and the news ("Why We'll NEVER Be Able to Take Off Our Masks!!") are not helpful either. Obviously those are posted and shared because they get clicks, but I do think a lot of those are virtue-signalling type overreactions to the anti-mask/anti-vax crowds out there.
This, by the way, is no excuse to not wear a mask or get vaccinated. These are proven public health safety measures that aren't that hard to do... and they work.
Can I win "least-refreshing perspective"? I try so hard to be unbiased and am so predisposed to neutrality that my opinions are usually knotted up into an inauthentic little pretzel.
Case in point: I've been following this thread with mild interest, but have not come down with any firm stances that I'm prepared to state and defend. Mostly, I'm just disappointed that we're once again pitting two irreconcilable worldviews against each other, and are thus set on an irreversible course towards <end thread> :no:
Speaking of refreshing perspectives, this is most definitely one, and a very well-put one, at that. I fully agree that trying to change minds here in this thread isn't going to do anything to help matters.
I don't think people on the other side of arguments from me are evil morons, nor stupid, nor immoral, and certainly none of those attributes would I apply to you. A lot of times when I get in discussions revolving around topics like this, it's not like I don't see the point of view of the person on the other side of the coin. I always try to empathize, and hopefully nothing I've said has come across as antagonistic. On the topic of Covid, however, I feel like some of those that don't want to get the vaccine are just short-sighted. I don't want to have a full butterfly effect argument, but at the same time if the person I'm discussing Covid with believes that personal responsibility only applies to that person themselves and that their choices don't affect anyone else, I am going to vocally disagree.
Chris
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(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/b87e1de6-34b5-460a-ad13-49802ea73f52)
I was thinking more this:
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Actually not a horrid movie...
Chris
Only if the serial number is 666.
No. Selfish is a loaded and pejorative word that does not, in my view, help the cause of developing herd immunity. I also don't think it does justice to the epistemic frameworks in which some people operate.
Nevertheless, I believe it is accurate to say that when people choose not to get vaccinated, they are socializing the costs of their personal choices to some degree. This is not necessarily a bad thing--for example, some elements of our economy (such as cheap highway transportation) are predicated on this socialization of costs. However, except in very unusual cases such as life-threatening complications from vaccination, it is hard to see what benefits accrue for vaccine refusal to the refuser's self, family, or community.
In the absence of compelling contraindications, that is what I would advise.
I'm certainly not saying I want to be that person either; I wear my mask where required and I will be vaccinated (I postponed my planned first shot due to scheduling issues). It's just that while some of my friends believe there is no level of safe activity, still stay home as much as possible, decline to see anyone they don't need to interact with, etc. While I understand their views I myself don't feel uncomfortable sitting in a restaurant. That's my perspective and mine alone.
I'm in the same category as you then. Our circle of friends had all been smart, so we didn't mind seeing them occasionally. We tried to do as much outside as possible though until we all got vaccinated. I think I only have one friend who hasn't gotten his second shot (or got J&J before they paused it).
Chris
I don't care if he does or not, and I believe he is an adult who can make his own informed decision.
I think it's important to distinguish between "needs to" and "should".
Ultimately, yes, I think he should, but I think he should come to that himself, not be told so by strangers on a roads forum. Back to the earlier point about differing worldviews and how they've been shaped - or not - by the pandemic, I reckon his life in rural Kentucky has been significantly less impacted by Covid than those of us living in an urban or suburban area.
This is basically my position as well.
I've done three nights there before. Three more would be a piece of cake.
Should I also get a Real ID? Do I need to get a Real ID?
Should I quit using my Valentine One? Do I need to quit using it?
Should I get my oil changed every 3-5,000 miles instead of letting the vehicle's internal system tell me when the oil needs changed? Do I need to get my oil changed every 3-5,000 miles instead of letting the vehicle's internal system tell me when the oil needs changed?
My own brother thinks I'm making a mistake in not getting the shot. And he is typically less inclined to buy into hype and pressure than I am. I figured he would be an even more staunch resister.
I have my reasons for choosing not to take the shot. They're quite valid reasons. I know a number of other people who have made the same decision for their own reasons.
I've been thinking about writing a long-form opinion piece on why I choose not to take the shot. If I do, I'll post the link here.
Could be the fourth one that gets ya...
You will eventually need to get a real ID in order to fly or to access federal facilities. If you never do either of those things, you won't need a real ID.
As for the vaccine, I agree it's 100% your choice. I just want to make sure you understand that the larger the number of people who choose not to get the vaccine, the larger the risk is to everybody, vaccinated or not. You can't hide from the match/science that dictates the consequences of your choice.
Well, there is not a currently ongoing influenza pandemic that we're desperately trying to bring to an end, so there's no acute need to get as many people vaccinated against influenza as we can as quickly as we can.
FWIW, last September was the first time in my life I ever got a flu shot. Previously, I had never bothered since I am not in a high risk group, flu shots aren't that effective anyway, and since they are sometimes in short supply I felt it was best to save them for people who needed them more than I do.
Last year, however, a need emerged to keep influenza extra tamped down so we don't have to deal with it on top of covid. Thus, getting a flu shot suddenly felt like civic duty, and so I did. I plan on getting a flu shot again this year for the same reason.
As for slamming people in general, I echo the sentiment that it isn't productive. As much as I disagree with anyone deciding not to get vaccinated, bullying them about it isn't going to change their mind, so I won't engage in such.
Indeed, your passport (if you have one) is also a RealID compliant document.
That said, there are cases where you may have to get RealID for other reasons. For example, if you have an existing non-RealID compliant Connecticut drivers' license, you can renew it as such in perpetuity, upgrading to RealID is optional... however, if you are getting a new Connecticut drivers' license, either because you are becoming a newly licensed driver or because you are moving from out of state, you must provide all the necessary documentation to be issued a RealID compliant license. The state will not issue you a non-compliant one.
I don't really care, but to the larger point, none of those things are nearly as consequential as the Covid vaccination.
Wouldn't that make you re-evaluate, then?
The bolded statements got a bit of a snort from me, as they would in almost any context. Saying that doesn't mean much of anything to anyone unless we know what the reasons are.
If you do write a long-form opinion piece, make sure it sufficiently addresses the following question (posed upthread by JN Winkler): What benefits accrue for vaccine refusal to the refuser's self, family, and community?
Personally I don't think it is anyone's business to try to passive aggressively attempt to "educate" others one way or the other regarding health matters of any kind either. But then again, this whole thread also has people throwing out their opinions on vaccinations which kind of opens the door for that kind of that thing.
Given that...
...it may be faster for me to actually get a US Passport if there was a need for me to have one.
So this is all just hype and pressure?
This is a fair comment and I probably should have ended the paragraph you quoted with "assuming your state gives you the option." Maryland, for example, doesn't give anyone a choice–it's Real ID or nothing if you want or need a driver's license. Virginia gives everyone the option. I have a passport card that is the same size as my driver's license, so that alone is a reason not to bother with the process.
I tend to agree; not everyone has multiple types paperwork to "prove their existence". Literally, if you don't have a utility bill in your name and current address, or some other "important bill", or like three other types of identification, you're out of luck. I can see the need for it for individuals with name changes and the like, say...too many conflicting bits of information. But the process seems to be a tad unfair for those of lesser economic means.
The airlines have been pushing the requirement, literally since 2013 for 2016...and they're not going to allow you to fly without a passport or RealID until they count to 2021 (and right now, they're on "2020 and three-quarters" and seriously thinking of sending you straight to your room without dinner).
I've never liked the equity implications of Real ID, but it does have its origins in the (bipartisan) 9/11 Commission report (the goal was to prevent people not legally present in the country, like the hijackers, gaining access to the air transport system), and the battle against it was lost during Bush's second term. Ever since, DHS has basically papered over the issues both of principle and of implementation by extending deadlines and waiting out recalcitrant states, under presidents of both major parties.
Although driver's licenses that are not Real ID-compliant are still available in Kansas, I opted to get one at the last renewal just to have it out of the way and to retain the ability to travel domestically without exposing my passport to loss (I typically don't carry it unless I am travelling to a state that has a land border with Canada or Mexico). I carefully double-checked the documentation requirements as listed by Kansas DOR (their materials at the time were both unclear and not internally consistent), and tried to go with at least one additional piece of paper to cover each specific requirement. At the Division of Vehicles office, they had someone checking papers at check-in to ensure you couldn't get in front of an agent unless you actually had what you needed, and that person was really unhappy because I showed up with a US passport instead of a birth certificate (citizenship proof) and a 1099 with untitivated SSN instead of Social Security card (proof of SSN; my Social Security card had gone missing).
I know from my own experiences with genealogical research that key documents often go missing even if you know you would have had to obtain them at some point and are sure you would never knowingly have thrown them out. For example, we have death certificates for my mother (2016) and both grandmothers (1997, 2011), but I have yet to find one for my maternal grandfather (1988; one would presumably have had to be obtained to probate his will) and my paternal grandfather's mother (1982; I'm not sure my grandmother obtained one since I think she did a distribution of assets several years before she went into a nursing home). I have seen my paternal grandparents' marriage license (1935), but it has also gone missing.
Thanks. Yeah, calling someone stupid is bullying him, so we'll just imply he's stupid by saying he needs to be educated. That'll work.
The direness of the pandemic does not mean there's no hype or pressure. They're not mutually exclusive.
I have a big problem with this. The only reason your employer can even know that you've had the vaccine is because there's an official pandemic, which suspends certain aspects of HIPAA policies. The step from knowing something in order to ensure the health of the other employees to using that information in determination of who gets paid how much–that's a step far too big to be comfortable with. Your employer should not be allowed to use your personal medical information in order to decide how much you get paid.
Proving your address is a tricky requirement for other things, too. I used to share an apartment with two other guys, for example, and the apartment manager paid the utility bills. Before that, I had rented a bedroom in a guy's house for cash, with no lease or anything. Heck, if you're married, what do you do if all the bills are in your spouse's name? I guess keeping a copy of your lease handy is getting more and more important.
That issue is why I opted to get the passport card, in addition to the book, the last time I renewed, and I'll do the same again next time. Yes, it means an extra fee, but the fee is only $30 and it's valid for 10 years, so I viewed it as $3 a year. If I give up one beer per year, I've paid for the card. I keep it in an inner pocket in my wallet. Aside from resolving the Real ID issue, another benefit in my mind is that it eliminates the concern of having to bring the passport book on a trip to a border state. (A totally unrelated benefit is the ability to use it as voter ID in order to annoy the overly-officious old ladies who volunteer at the polls and who act like anything other than a driver's license is an imposition on them.)
Isn't a passport book even better in that regard? (Actually, I think that's what I used as ID when I voted last year.)
Are we all agreed that HB shouldn't make medical decisions based on an internet forum?
That strikes me as oddly progressive for Missouri.
...why?
I think Real ID is more important than me taking my shoes off, me taking my toothpaste out of my luggage, or some random weirdo needing to see my junk in order to let me fly. No one seems (in general) as concerned with those.
Chris
Let me rephrase, they are all security theater items. The frequency by which TSA screeners fail when they are evaluated is evidence enough that they couldn't stop someone who is committed causing harm abroad an airplane.
Their response to you would, no doubt, be "We're a sovereign nation," which is their response to everything when someone says they legally can't or shouldn't do something (i.e. "Oh yeah? Take us to court, then, and see what happens after we get it remanded to our tribal court system").
That bonus check (called the "Individual Development Plan" or IDP) has always already required you to undergo a biometric screening (blood is drawn and analyzed for cholesterol levels, waistline measured, heart rate measured after undergoing 5 min of cardio). This was done for free by the tribal health system, though you could opt to have your general practitioner do it for you. I don't think the exact numbers were shared with the employer, but it had to be done to get the check (I am guessing doing so garnered the tribe a discount on the group health insurance plan). Additionally, you had to sit through a bunch of training classes that were of questionable relevance to the actual job duties in a casino (fortunately it gradually went mostly online, such that one could have them going in the background while working, effectively allowing you to double dip). So it wasn't really much of a bonus at all, since you had to do extra work to get it.
It brings us closer to a situation where a person can't function in society (including exercising basic rights such as voting) because he or she lacks a piece of paper and a way of getting that paper. For example, when Kansas was trying to enforce a state law requiring people to show documentary proof of citizenship to register to vote, it was discovered that some people born as late as the 1920's were never issued birth certificates. There have also been instances of people with birth certificates issued in the 1970's being refused US passports because they were born at home rather than at a hospital (the State Department hates accepting birth certificates for home births because there is no independent corroboration).
Plus, attempts to create leakproof identity verification systems can often generate a false sense of security. Real ID, if it had existed back in 2001, would have given the 9/11 hijackers another hurdle to cross if it hadn't prevented the attack altogether, but it doesn't protect against insider threats, such as people born in the US choosing to carry out a 9/11-style plot. There is also a fundamental problem in that birth certificates, which are still foundational identity documents, have no biometric complement and are easy to forge.
I'll go back to the original quote:
My interpretation of his statement is that he views the inclination to get the COVID-19 vaccine as-soon-as-possible as someone giving into hype and pressure.
There may be some truth to it: people getting the vaccine who normally avoid things like the flu shot may be giving into some societal pressure. Especially if their MO is generally to avoid vaccines (like flu or tetanus). But I'm not convinced the COVID-19 vaccine is necessarily akin to other non-child vaccines just yet. There seems to be a lot of potential differences at this point in time. And importantly, high vaccination rates now could mean substantially reduced chance of mutation later on.
If he wants to label vaccination programs as "hype and pressure", that's fine. But I feel like it's not completely fair.
The minimum amount of time I would have to invest in getting a shot, assuming no line at the local Walgreen's, is 50 minutes.
15 minutes travel time
5 minutes filling out paperwork and getting the shot
15 minutes observation time
15 minutes travel time back home
I can crank out a lengthy column in about half that time.
But that assumes I want to get the shot. I don't.
No need for me to go to NYC. The last time I was in the Jackson Walmart, an announcement was made over the speaker that they had shots available in the pharmacy at that time if anyone wanted one. The time before that, as I entered the store, someone was handing out brochures at the front door and asking, "Are you interested in having a covid shot today?"
Uh, no thanks.
Bonus checks at my employer aren't depending on health screenings, since we don't have bonus checks, but the availability of certain health insurance plans are dependent on it. Four plans are offered; to have access to two of them you have to agree to have a screening or complete an online assessment by a certain date, or those options are unavailable to you for the next year's plan. Premiums are different for smokers and non-smokers, however.
There has been concern about employers being able to require a covid shot, which may have been addressed by legislation our General Assembly passed this year (Senate Bill 8). My understanding is that of now, they can't require it because the shots are in a "Clearview approval" status, but could be made mandatory when the emergency authorization becomes permanent approval. There are lawyers salivating at the chance to file suit if employers require the shots.
As I mentioned, though, my former employer (the Chickasaw Nation) has its own court system, so if they can get the case remanded to tribal court (which is likely to be successful, as you have to sign a consent to jurisdiction to be employed there), they can put you through no end of legal shenanigans. First off, you have to have a lawyer who is licensed to practice law in Chickasaw court...and then of course the court's expenses are paid for by the revenue of the very business you'd be suing, so that doesn't really bode well for your case.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
I dunno. I haven't read any way that it's better than Moderna, but it requires dry ice temperature freezers to store.
I don't think there was ever any risk of danger mixing the vaccines. The issue is that it might not be as effective.
I suppose since mixing like that was not part of testing, the combination could less, similarly, or even more effective.
That's my understanding. Apparently my vaccination site (a military base) had Pfizer for the first rounds of shots but ended up getting Moderna for the second. They decided to roll with it given there doesn't appear to be any apparent harm. That falls in line with what the CDC, but they also note it hasn't been tested.
I find it highly amusing how you just lord over your sister in your posts like what she wants literally is worthless. I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is intentional or not.
No, the fact that you (and maybe your mother?) place literally no value in her opinion. I'm not saying that isn't the right thing to do, she is after all a child who is being made to get a vaccine by a parent. I just wonder if you can see how statements such as yours (and from others) might embolden certain individuals that aren't inclined to get vaccinated. The authoritarian approach to socially "shaming others" didn't seem to play very well during every step of the way with most COVID restrictions either.
So your opinion is that people who don't want to be vaccinated should be forcibly compelled to do so for the "greater good?" That may sound benign to you, but consider how that sounds to others who don't agree.
Sounds like you got a lot to learn about how life really works then, but my point was made.
Personally I'm not a fan of trying to compel people to do anything for the so called "greater good." In the context of vaccinations we all probably know someone who just plain wasn't going to get one and there was anything that was going to change their mind. So instead of wasting all that effort end trying to persuade those individuals, why not do what you think is right for yourself?
Hell, my own reasoning to get a vaccination aren't exactly "selfless." I don't really see a true "need" from a health perspective to have gotten a vaccination for myself. Yes, vaccinations will decrease the likelihood of infections spreading as a global/communal thing. All the same I've been going to work everyday (being exposed to the public) since the lockdowns in California began last year and my wife actually contracted COVID last summer. That being the case the odds were that I was going to be fine even without a vaccination. I do see it as a potential barrier to getting back to doing things I like doing and that was reason enough for me to get the so called "pandemic passport."
My wife on the other hand, she doesn't want to get a vaccine right now and has compelling reasons not to. She had COVID but was symptom free the entire time, so her view on the danger is molded by that experience. She also wanted to see what if any effects vaccines would have on people given they didn't go through the normal testing procedures. The concept of a pandemic passport doesn't bother her either and she would rather wait for easier availability.
Do I think she is making a mistake?...absolutely. I feel like at some point she will run into that pandemic passport issue and it will prevent her from doing something she wants to do. I respect her decision enough that I don't feel the need to lord my opinion over her, even though I disagree. I don't think there is anything I can do to change her mind, she has the facts by which to draw a conclusion for herself.
So maybe you want to look at your stance and put yourself in the position of someone who doesn't agree with you. I really think you are wasting your time by being as forceful as you are. Your sister might not have a say, but most adults do and there probably isn't anything you can do to change their minds.
I suspect for people like HB that live in very rural areas, 2020 wasn't that different than 2019 except for masks (if even that) and less traveling (if even that).
To some that isn't something they just plain aren't ever going to do, my brother is one of those people. He decided after two states ordered (Arizona and Idaho) his franchise gyms shuttered that COVID was largely nonsense. He doesn't deny COVID exists, but he also doesn't believe that it is a big deal either (his exact description is a bad flu).
Some of the highlights stuff my Brother has done this past year:
- He reopened his gyms in defiance of Arizona of Idaho State orders. He did (I don't know if he still does) have mask and social distancing guidelines in place. He was fined a couple times but saw it as the lesser evil given being shuttered was way more costly by his estimates (I don't know enough about his financials to determine the validity to that statement).
- He won't wear a mask under any circumstance and won't let his kids either. He has taken a hard line stance that mask wearing will negatively affect his breathing as well as and theirs. He regularly gets kicked out businesses and I'm not sure how he has gotten away with flying as much as he has.
- He pulled his daughters out of school given they had a mask requirement and hired an at-home instructor.
- My sister-in-law contracted COVID this past year but he just saw it as affirmation that he was right given she was relatively symptom free and nobody else in the house showed symptoms. My sister-in-law briefly quarantined but he and my nieces didn't.
There is a whole lot I don't agree with that my brother does. For the most part I believe he is making trouble for himself which could potentially have legal ramifications, he isn't exactly a stranger to that kind of thing (make of that what you will, you're probably right). I've told him that he isn't being smart but he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice, so I left it at that. I haven't even bothered to ask him what he thinks about vaccinations because the answer is rhetorical.
I do agree with my brother that his gym franchise was at risk of going under due to COVID. I also do agree fitness and exercise are far more essential than a lot of state health departments gave it credit for. Aside from that, I mean what else can I say? He's a perfect example of someone who is completely hardened in his line of thinking and will not be convinced otherwise under any circumstance...there is no point in me or anyone trying. I haven't seen him or my nieces in about two years at this point, some of that was due to COVID restrictions.
I never said he wasn't. The point I'm trying to make is that you all are wasting your time and breath trying to convince people like him to see things your way. People like that don't care how many pleads or mandates you throw at them.
My wife also doesn't care what anyone outside of immediate family or maybe her doctor says. Again, you're better off focusing on you and your immediate circle than trying to convince people like HB.
I'm sorry, it was tolbs17's sister.
I'm starting to think he's right about this. I've experimented with this, and I believe what I've experienced - not media figures who insist otherwise. Should I believe my own experiences, or should I believe media "experts" who are complete strangers who probably don't follow the rules themselves?
On a related note, has anyone here actually seen anyone kicked out of somewhere for not wearing a mask? I haven't seen this. A couple of the major supermarket or convenience store chains that have stores near me supposedly require masks on all customers at all their stores, but from the looks of it, their stores near me don't enforce it. I was in one of these stores a few months ago, and the clerk even said they don't enforce it, and not a single customer was wearing one. This was months before vaccines were even available.
It depends on where you are in the country. It is definitely the case where I live, although I've never seen it since compliance is almost perfect.
Even in Utah I've seen mask requirements semi-enforced... but not really. If you walked into Smith's without a mask, they'd tell you to put one on. Half the time it's an honest mistake and they left it in their car or whatever, but the other half it's some anti-mask person who then gets all argumentative with store staff, who don't want to escalate the situation to a point where the police might have to be called.
So basically you could get away with it by being a dick.
Back in March when I was in St. George and Washington maybe half of the people we ran into who were indoors were wearing masks.
Regarding people refusing to wear masks and being kicked out, I've removed well over twenty people this last year. Only one of them ever got to the point where I had to call the police to do a formal trespass. Usually I'm only called upon if someone is at an anti-masker level. Most casual people go get their masks or fix them if an employee tells them to. It probably helps that this is a military base and its way easier to just kick someone out than in the real world.
I can believe it, since mask mandates in many jurisdictions (including mine) were not set up for aggressive enforcement.
In another special-interest group I belong to, a woman whose adult sons are in their thirties reported (long before covid) that they had been involved in several bar fights over the years. Given that history, it didn't exactly surprise me when masking started and she reported that one of the sons, who is an OTR trucker, refused to mask up and was ejected for trespassing when he tried to check into a casino in Nevada at the height of the first wave.
In Wichita there is currently no general mask mandate. Our governor's attempt to re-institute one statewide on April 1 was overturned virtually instantly by the legislature, and neither the Wichita City Council nor the Sedgwick County Commission has even discussed the possibility. The mask mandates that still exist are in school districts and there is a former county commissioner who has been going around challenging them, so far unsuccessfully.
At the supermarket I have been seeing unmasked people in larger numbers. They skew young and male. Couples where the female partner wears a mask but the male does not are also increasingly common.
Within the City of Wichita, it has been decided that CDC guidelines will be followed. As a result, our public library (which is a city department) is eliminating its current one-day quarantine for physical materials, since the CDC has decided that surfaces do not play a role of any significance in transmission. (At the start of the pandemic in March 2020, we quarantined for three days; this increased to four in July 2020 and dropped to one when we restored access to the stacks in March 2021.) Masks are still required in city buildings.
There has been talk of small businesses in town grouping together to use a common set of "Please wear a mask" signs and promoting themselves as safer places to shop, eat, and so on.
Maybe a different "forum" at this point. Discussion of mask wearing is just never ending :fight:
Personally I am partially vaccinated but refraining from answering the poll until I get the second shot.
Call it a Pfizer Pflop.
The 2nd shot resulted in chills and "heating" (not feverish) with sensitive to the touch for me (also moderna). No moderna rash
Without looking I know this but confirmed anyways, why are you linking a totally paywalled site?
If people don't listen to what you have to say, then it must be that you're not yelling loud enough. Right?
It amazes me that some people seem to think others aren't getting vaccinated because they somehow haven't managed to hear some little tidbit over the last year, and that just hearing it from them will make them change their minds.
Everyone has heard it all already.
Because when you say "how awful it is", the only thing you really mean is "you people have to pay insane amounts for healthcare". Which I agree is awful, but that issue isn't relevant to why we've been able to get vaccines distributed and into arms.
Yeah. The U.S. healthcare is second to none...if you're rich. This fortunately hasn't mattered for the vaccine effort because the vaccines themselves are being purchased by the government and distributed for free.
There is also the fact that vaccine distribution is more a matter of logistics than it is of healthcare. I don't think there's much specialized medical knowledge involved in giving an injection. The real challenge of vaccination is shipping the vaccines where they need to go under tight temperature constraints, and organizing clinics in order to efficiently administer them in such a way that they are accessible to the population that needs it. Those challenges are the kinds of problems that the U.S. is excellent at solving.
I'm willing to bet the AARoads community has a higher percentage of vaccine takers than the general population.
If only we could get HB vaccinated...
I like how HB actually was the one to start this thread, of all people on this forum.
Do you mean the outcome of specific procedures in our nation is worse than the outcome of those same specific procedures elsewhere? Or do you simply mean that we as a people are unhealthier?
At the population level, we have lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than many western European countries with socialized health care. One US state (Alabama) is close to having an infant mortality rate that would disqualify it as a developed country if it were its own nation.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
My guess is neither one. My guess is that out-of-pocket cost has a LOT to do with it.
That's a tricky question, because "the cost of health care" can mean many different things. Does it mean the amount of money your doctor/hospital spends in order to treat you? Does it mean the amount of money the government spends on health care? Does it mean the overall cost of your insurance plan? Does it mean the amount of money taken out of your paycheck to afford that plan? Does it mean the amount of money you still have to pay in the form of deductibles and copays? Etc, etc, etc. Lowering one of those numbers doesn't necessarily lower the others, so would doing so actually make health care "cheaper"?
Yeah, I'd like "outcomes" to be much more clearly defined before I ventured to agree or disagree.
Which could be one of several definitions I suggested.
I would submit that if you are unable to take advantage of a system that is supposed to be meeting your needs, that system is functionally useless.
Much like if the Interstate system were built without on or off ramps. Sure, it's a world-class transportation system, but if you can't actually get on it and use it, what was the point of building it in the first place?
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2020#:~:text=The%20waiting%20time%20in%20this%20segment%20increased%20from%2010.8%20weeks,reasonable%E2%80%9D%20(7.8%20weeks).
My guess is that it will stop near-suddenly when we pass the herd immunity threshold. (Passing the threshold means the virus will fade away even with normal daily life. It's not instant, but it does mean that going back to normal won't be a problem anymore.)
Increased work from home might be permanent.
That's true 100%, but in single-family homes (which are much more prevalent in impoverished areas), the parent often has to choose between working and being more involved with the kids. This is a no-win. If the parent doesn't work, (s)he is accused of freeloading off the government. If the parent does work, which is often evening/night work because that's what's more available in poor areas, then the kids is much more unsupervised and more susceptible to bad influences like gangs/drugs/etc.
Would this be a better country if people didn't have kids out of wedlock and didn't get divorced so much? Of course, but you can't legislate that. A real poverty-busting program must not only give poor kids the same quality schools as middle and upper class kids, but also give parents support so that they can both earn money at a job and have support in raising their kids. If we really committed to this, poverty would go down drastically within 20 years, with a corresponding decrease in crime, drugs and dependence on government support. The money you spend gets paid back down the road via decreased need for police/courts/public assistance plus the corresponding increase in taxpayers who would otherwise be either dead or making a living illegally and not paying taxes.
Yay!
There need to be school-based (yet separate personnel from the schools) community centers where kids who have working parents can spend time being tutored/mentored while the parent is at work. Get the kids interested in something positive from an early age + keep them away from drugs and gangs.
I have now had a full course of shots and live in a jurisdiction with no general mask mandate, yet I still wear a mask. I don't intend to do that on a permanent basis, but am waiting to see what happens with herd immunity and the covid variants that are in circulation.
I've actually toyed with the idea of booking flights to and from Mexico City for the autumn, but feel that would be premature at this point. I feel comfortable taking multi-day trips out of town right now, but as visiting museums is a major travel focus for me, I think I'd find them more enjoyable once cultural facilities feel safe dropping indoors mask requirements on their premises. I think we would need an all-clear from the CDC in order for that to happen. (I'm happy to go to our local art museum with a mask, since my visits are typically both brief and frequent. For a yearly visit to the Nelson-Atkins in Kansas City or a once-in-several-years visit to the Art Institute in Chicago, I'd like to be able to spend a few hours without my glasses fogging up.)
Good source. That's the one I was going to link to as well.
Yes, "years" might be hyperbole, but not by much. PEI reports waits of 46.5 weeks, so basically a year. And I also have friends in Ontario that have shared experiences of 6+ months of wait time.
Really I haven't been afraid to do much of anything normalized for probably at least half a year. My own conclusion was that I likely caught COVID in December of 2019 which was followed up by my wife catching it for sure during the summer of 2020. I was apparently too essential to work from home at any point last year which kind of made me question how much more dangerous things like going to the gym, staying at hotel or going somewhere to eat was by comparison (I have a very public job which has me interact with dozens of people daily). I was seeing movies up until the theaters shut down and probably would be now if they actually had anything worth seeing.
In the case of the gym, that was a highly contentious issue for me personally given that I wasn't willing to sacrifice my health and stop weight lifting. I built a pandemic gym in the garage when I didn't have any other options but once my gym reopened in defiance of California's purple tier restrictions I decided to return. Considering my gym required masks and equipment to be cleaned I saw it as low risk.
If/when the mask mandate goes away, I have no inclination to wear one anymore. I kind of feel like they have given people a false sense of security and there isn't much that can be truly done to prevent exposure in an enclosed space. I'll probably carry a mask around just in case some private business requires it, I just prefer to avoid the headache of getting into debates with people when the time comes.
So with all that said, I refer several pages back to what I said regarding a vaccination being a means to an ends for me towards resuming normalcy. I don't want a lack of a vaccination to become a potential barrier which prevents me from doing the things I want to do in life. Yeah, I don't think it is a particularly big deal for people to get a vaccine (meaning they ought to along with using a mask until it's not required) but I also know full well some are just never going to do so. All the same I have no interest of trying to convince others who won't get a vaccine, I don't see that burden that is a worthwhile use of my time.
Plenty of dead in California from late 2019 have been found to have COVID during autopsies. I was sick for about a month with pretty much every classic COVID symptom. Many symptoms like a lack of appetite, a loss of taste and a dry cough that wouldn't go away were things I never have experienced in any flu. I also ended up losing 20 pounds during that month and my doctor couldn't diagnose what was wrong with me. The way it was phrased by him was "unknown viral infection."
It might interest you to look into some of the evidence regarding COVID being present in the United States months before the outbreak in Wuhan. There is a lot of evidence for it at this point, especially on the West Coast.
My general sentiment is that once two weeks have passed since shot 2, covid is no longer my problem, and I will be willing to do anything I'd normally do. At least provided the venue/jurisdiction doesn't have rules in place that make it unappealing (I have for example seen venues that still want a negative test produced to enter even if you're fully vaccinated. No thanks, my business is going elsewhere).
That said, I will continue wearing a mask to the grocery store and what have you for as long as it remains required... begrudgingly.
There are currently 113 votes in the poll, and I doubt there's been half that many people who have posted in the thread in total, so there's plenty of people who said they are getting/have gotten vaccinated who haven't replied either. I know there's been a few others who have posted saying they aren't getting it, so I don't think it's that they haven't been as likely to respond, as much as just the fact that there's way more people on here who are getting it.
This is kind of where I'm at. As I've said before, at a certain point the restrictions are going to have to end and everyone who can't get it will have to quarantine, and everyone who won't get it will have to suffer the consequences of their decision. I don't think it's fair to have restrictions going on and on because we haven't hit some target percentage of the population with the vaccine, while we have it available to everyone in the state to roll up and get it whenever they like.
I am looking forward to my local mask mandate ending on June 1st because I'm kind of sick of having to deal with my glasses fogging up and falling off because the straps make them slide off my ears. Until then, though, I am complying with the mask mandate, with one exception. I went back to the gym for the first time in over a year last week. There were only three other people there (plus one employee), and none of them were wearing masks, so I didn't bother to wear mine. It's hard enough for me to catch my breath doing strenuous exercise without a mask blocking my airflow.
I'll wear them when required and I'll wear a mask from now on if I get a cold or something and have to run an errand. I don't want to get others sick. I probably won't be going to the movies anytime soon (I went rarely pre-Covid), but most of those other things are outside which I will not be concerned with not wearing a mask now that I'm vaccinated. There's still plenty of distancing requirements here anyway.
Chris
Similar here. I haven't worn a mask since about a week after the mandate was lifted here–and I only wore it then because I had been in not-close contact with someone who had COVID but didn't realize it. I can't think of a single person in my office building still wearing a mask, including the lady I share an office with who has been very cautious the whole time for more than one reason; she hasn't worn hers since her second shot either.
Every Sunday at church, there are fewer and fewer people wearing masks, and I assume it's because there are more and more people fully vaccinated. This is actually keeping a good friend of ours away from church, because she has had a great deal of anxiety during the pandemic–which is not helped at all by the fact that when, she got the virus back in the summer, she ended up using an inhaler for a month. Basically, until the CDC says fully vaccinated people can stop wearing masks, she won't go somewhere there are vaccinated people not wearing masks. Another good friend from church has substitute-taught for her recently, and he said the entire first page of instructions was about sanitization.
Really, I only wear a mask anymore if I'm out grocery shopping. It's to the point that I'm starting to forget grabbing it when I leave again.
My kids still wear their masks faithfully everywhere outside of our house or our friends' houses, even in contexts where they're literally the only ones wearing one.
The other thread was supposed to have a temporary lock, not a permanent lock. They forgot to unlock it.
Yeah, I'd like to get back on topic too.
The problem is that our vaccination status may very well influence our mask behavior, so they're related subjects.
Update: I woke up in the middle of the night to chills, aches, and a fever of 100.5, about 12 hours after my second Pfizer dose. I took a Tylenol and it went away after a few hours. Fever has not come back but I've definitely felt tired/not exactly normal for most of today.
This is almost the exact same progression that my dad had with his second Pfizer dose a month ago. Wonder if there's a genetic component to it.
Congratulations! They're a good school.
Was it sore immediately after the jab, or later on? I recall that most people feel sore in the arm, but that it's usually an hour-plus later, not necessarily right away.
My 'legit' time is tomorrow evening.
It was sore immediately, then mostly faded. It's been about 2 1/2 hours now.
Don't be surprised if it resurfaces in the next 1-2 days. That's not to sound pessimistic, but just to concur with jakeroot that almost all the reports I've heard of sore arms have been 1-2 days later.
Soreness wasn't as bad with my second as it was with my first. Side-effects, on the other hand...
In terms of systemic adverse reactions, I do feel lucky to have gotten away with no more than a headache following the second shot. For Moderna in my age group, other possibilities included (percentage prevalences after first and second shots in parentheses): fatigue (38%/68%), muscle pain (24%/62%), joint pain (17%/46%), chills (9%/49%), nausea/vomiting (9%/21%), and fever (1%/17%).
not drowning
You're on a roll today, aren't you?
A little bit, yeah. I should go outside or something...
Yay! Congrats!
I'd never had any adverse reactions to anything since I was like three years old. But shot #2 of Pfizer had me feeling pretty miserable for about 20 hours.
Yes, well, I don't know how else to describe it. I actually sometimes refer to it as "getting sick" from the vaccine, because–well, when you have a fever and chills and body aches and trouble breathing, "sick" seems like a rather appropriate word to describe the situation.
I was hoping to call in sick, I was disappointed that I felt fine with all the hype leading into both my shots.
I imagine your teacher would be fine with deferring your test if you feel like hell that day. It's such a common issue that you're not going to be questioned over it. Between all the covid positives in the first place they must have some plan to deal with the bevy of absences this year.
AP tests can't be delayed.
For context, I have over 700 hours of unused sick leave. I didn't use a single hour of it during all of 2020 because I didn't feel sickly. I wish that I could use it just because I want a day off now and then.
Are you able to get anything for unused sick leave when you leave employment (like civil service will add it to years of service credit if you retire as a fed)?
Yes, I am a Federal Employee so in theory that does work to my benefit if I stick around until retirement.
Number of cases sucks here. Looks like next week we move back to phase 2.
One of the reasons given for the big outbreak in Michigan that may also apply to Washington is that they did so well at containing earlier outbreaks, which leaves more people vulnerable. The more contagious B.1.1.7 variant is widespread now. It's different enough that the immunity imparted by previous infection by a legacy version is less effective, but any immunity is better than none, and places that contained the outbreak better early on have more people with none. On the Worldometer web site, the total cases per million in Washington is low, the fifth lowest of all states. That leaves them in a bad situation, because we're now at a point where earlier success works to their detriment.
They're not. 15 states (and Puerto Rico) currently have higher per-case counts than Washington does.
The difference is that Washington's state government has a far lower risk tolerance than that of most other states, and is reintroducing restrictions under circumstances most other states would shrug at and not deem worrisome.
In other words, it's all politics. Most of the rest of the country has moved on and is working on reopening everything. Washington isn't comfortable with that yet... which isn't all that surprising since they've been one of the most jittery and restriction-happy states from the getgo.
So...WA is ranked 34th...still not good.
Um, no. The decision about covid phase is made on a county by county basis. Here's a couple:
King County (Seattle)
https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/daily-summary.aspx
See the positive cases graph on the top right: in early March the 7-day average was about 140 to 160. Now they're up around 340 to 360.
King County population est. for 2019 is 2.253 million.
Pierce County (Tacoma)
https://www.tpchd.org/healthy-people/diseases/covid-19-pierce-county-cases/
They use a 14-day moving average, which was 80 to 90 in mid March and is now around 190.
Pierce County population est. for 2019 is 904K.
Each county health department makes its own covid dashboard. Feel free to google for them yourself if you want more counties...
Okay. The New York Times graphic that I'm looking at shows today compared to 14 days ago. It doesn't look farther back than that.
Saturday evening, my wife and I went to the gym for the first time since before COVID. Sometime in February-March of last year, we just kind of stopped going because "other life" got in the way. When we were ready to resume going, things were shut down. After they had opened up again and we were ready to resume going again, COVID cases bad become high in our area and we didn't feel comfortable being around a bunch of strangers who were breathing hard. Now that both of us are fully vaccinated, we decided there was no better time to return.
A couple of thoughts:
1. What once was invigorating is now tiring. Man, we must have been doing a lot of just sitting around this past year.
2. Every other treadmill, stair stepper, elliptical machine, and stationary bike was blocked off for physical distancing–except for one row of them. What's up with that? It didn't make a difference anyway, because the gym is never crowded at the hour we go there. But still, I thought that was weird. On the other hand, it was kind of different using the same kind of machine as my wife but it not being the one right next to hers.
I want to know if it's really 100% effective or "better than 99.5% effective". Nothing is 100% effective.
I'm glad I got Pfizer, then. I'd rather have the injection in my arm.
:bigass:
(https://imgur.com/50DNdGD.jpg)?
I have been thinking of going back to the gym myself, and even though I have been walking at least two miles on a more or less daily basis, I know I will have a mountain to climb to regain the strength and endurance I had back in March 2020 when everything closed. (I have lost a small amount of weight and suspect it is mostly muscle mass.) I am just not sure whether to hazard it now or wait and see what happens with the variants currently in circulation.
I'm seeing an error message.
Sorry, that is my bad. (I manually deleted the image off my imgur thread instead of just closing the tab.) Fixed.
I had the second shot of Moderna on April 24, so my get-out-of-jail date is this coming Saturday. Variants are an issue because I'd rather not climb the mountain of getting back to where I was in March 2020 only to have to stop if we go back to nonpharmaceutical interventions (masking, stay-at-home orders, etc.) when a vaccine-resistant variant breaks loose.
Eek. You sure you're not just rationalizing laziness?
To my way of thinking, #2 below is still better than #3.
1. Get back in shape.
2. Start getting back in shape, then have to cut your progress short later.
3. Don't even start getting back in shape.
Do you think this is truly a matter of "when" rather than "if"?
Be aware of the BV-1 and B.1.617 variants. They are resistant to antibody neutralization.
Don't forget that this is a perpetual pandemic.
Welcome to the rest of your life.
People talked for about a year about "getting back to normal". Are they realizing yet that such might not be possible?
I worry that some people haven't yet been able to adjust their state of mind to include the coronavirus being a part of life. I worry that they're going to be stuck in this sort of limbo for far longer than is healthy. They've been hunkering down in their houses, waiting for a green light that may never light up.
Quite sure. I'm not saying I'm never lazy, but once I get into a routine at the gym, I keep going and don't miss twice.
I think that analysis makes more sense for an exercise program focused on aerobic conditioning. Resistance training is all I do at the gym, and I increase the load on each set in six- to eight-week steps to minimize the chances of ligament injury. If I'm forced to interrupt for an extended period (say, to wait out a spike in variant cases), I have to start back at zero when I return.
For Michigan, not to mention the UK and Europe, it has been a matter of "when"--the latter two are just coming out of lockdowns that began after vaccines were authorized. Admittedly, these decisions were driven by a variant (B.1.1.7) that is not vaccine-resistant and so reflect a problem of timing (spread occurring before vaccines could be rolled out to the bulk of the population), but it is just a short step from that to a vaccine-resistant variant taking off before a booster is available to contain it.
We are barely 17 months into this pandemic and our options for mitigation have been evolving throughout that time, so I think it is premature to make a determination that a return to normal won't be possible.
My own approach, admittedly, has been conservative. We no longer have a general mask mandate in our local area, but that outcome is patently the result of a decision by the Kansas legislature (which has exactly zero epidemiologists) and liability concerns on the part of local governing bodies. As of April 27, the CDC still recommends (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/pdfs/choosingSaferActivities.pdf) masks for vaccinated people in all indoor settings where unvaccinated people may be present (the main advantage of vaccination is a higher safety margin and being able to dispense with social distancing and handwashing).
Hope I didn't offend. I really thought it strange, especially coming from you.
No worries--I wasn't bothered. And for that matter, I haven't given up on the gym. I'm just waiting a while to see how the situation develops.
Because, you know, you are nothing if not intentional.
That being said, this may be a step in the right direction...
Have people actually been fined, much less jailed? I thought it was just a warnings, education, or telling unmasked people to leave response.
Which is odd, considering the mayor is pretty centrist, at least as far as Oklahoma politicians go.
Maybe there was some sort of bizarre compromise in the city council between the more conservative and more liberal wards. We'll let you have a mask mandate, but the fine has to be a single-digit number.
any time you say "i'm sure" about something getting moderated a certain way it kind of makes me want to do the opposite, just sayin'
I ran 8 miles and went to the gym the day after both of my shots. I had a sore arm the first time but really nothing the second. My wife was trying to convince me I was groggy the second time because of the shot, but it was a Friday. Friday is usually the end of my cardio week and when I feel the most run down.
If you can't afford a $9 one time fine you're financial situation probably is beyond dire.
So it sounds like this thread will be open for a while then! :biggrin: :cheers:
And, I mean, you can just wear a mask and not get fined. They are legitimately free in some cases.
That being said, as I mentioned upthread, the fine isn't even being assessed in most cases. If you're not wearing a mask, OCPD isn't going to write you a ticket for just that. You can be asked to leave by the business and OCPD will enforce that if you won't leave. If you're being unruly and commit some other offense and get arrested, they toss the $9 on top of whatever else they charge you with.
J&J has advantages, that make it popular with some people who might refuse the other vaccines (mainly that it's one-shot), make it easier to provide to populations where super-cold refrigeration isn't practical, and work better for other populations like the homeless and migrant farmworkers who are hard to chase down to get their second shots. I was given a choice between one- and two-dose vaccines, and opted for the latter, but would not criticize the choices of those who got J&J.
Were you able to get both of yours close in to town? I went to Ada for my first dose and Eufaula for my second because it was difficult getting a vaccination slot in the OKC metro at the time I got mine.
My personal preference would be for a vaccine with high headline efficacy--Pfizer, Moderna, maybe Sputnik V if it passes the sniff test from the European Medicines Agency or another SRA--but there is a theory that inactivated-virus vaccines like Sinovac, Sinopharm, Covaxin, and so on experience less of a drop in effectiveness against variants because they use the whole virus and so elicit a more comprehensive immune response.
I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.
Still can't accept that some people think differently than you do?
I'm fine with this.
Then at this point (or in the next two months or so), that's on them. Those of us that have gotten vaccinated have done it not only for ourselves but for others. At some point, if they refuse "the help", then we leave them stranded on the side of the road so to speak.
Chris
India has also been reluctant to take any other mitigation measures. Vaccines alone won't stop their current disaster.
Come on, HB, I thought you were a trained journalist - why are you citing "unsourced references" as evidence in a discussion
Just FYI, the technology behind the Astra-Zenica, Sputnik V, and J&J vaccines has been in use for years, primarily for Ebola vaccines. I'm not aware of any long-term effects having been raised as a concern.
If this was last November or December, then you might have a point. But vaccines don't cause side-effects years down the road. If there were major issues, especially disastrous, large-scale issues, we would already know about them by now.
Google is not a doctor and this idea that non-experts can make informed decisions by surfing the Internet should be added to Aristotle's logical fallacies.
Get thee to a doctor. Otherwise, the decision you're making is hardly an informed one.
A 95% effective rate means that, after two weeks after your vaccination, you have a 5% of getting COVID when exposed to it. So yes, people can still get it, there are going to be people who get it, and there are going to be interested parties (journalists, vaccine resisters) who for different reasons want to amplify that.
The point is transmission. If you and your spouse are both vaccinated and you are exposed to COVID, then there's a 5% chance that you get it, a 0.25% chance (1 in 400) that your spouse gets it, a 0.0125% (1 in 8,000) chance a vaccinated person s/he meets gets it, and so forth. Sooner or later math wins and COVID loses.
I just got my second Pfizer dose today. Tired, but otherwise fine.
But yes, this will inevitably happen, and CDC stats show that around 6000 people have tested positive after full vaccination. But in that population, we'd expect around 300,000 positive tests without the vaccine, since the vaccines around 95 percent effective. While they aren't perfect, they certainly get close.
The vaccine is like a seatbelt. Can you die in a car crash with a seatbelt on? Sure. Does it make it less likely? Yes.
Nnnn that's actually not quite what it means. What it means is if you are exposed, your risk of getting infected is 5% of what it would be if you were unvaccinated. Since the odds of becoming infected if exposed while unvaccinated are not 100%, the odds while vaccinated are therefore less than 5%.
Or another way of looking at this on a population scale is that we expect to see an infection in a vaccinated person for every 20 infections in unvaccinated people.
Which I think is an important distinction. If nothing else, hey, if you take it, you have an effective 0% chance of dying. Especially for the boomer-aged, vaccine-hesitant crowd.
Chris
I mean, I understand the people that are using probability to make their decision. There's a non-zero chance I can die of the flu every year, including if I get a vaccine. But before Covid, I never got the flu vaccine because I didn't understand that it "wasn't about me". I just figured there's x percent chance I get it and y percent chance that I die from it and y is a very, very small number as an active, fit, 30-something. If people don't want to get the Covid vaccine because they think there's such a small chance of them dying from Covid that it doesn't matter, I at least understand the logic (because there's actually logic there). Those that don't want to get it "just 'cuz" or because they think Jeff Bezos is implanting them with nanochips, those are the people I want to shake. But either way, it's not about the person getting the vaccine, it's about others that are going to be less likely to be infected because more and more people are vaccinated.
Chris
Just because someone doesn't want a vaccine doesn't automatically make them an anti-vaxer. My wife is hesitant too (given she wants to get pregnant) and definitely isn't an anti-vaxer. Some people are just more cautious than others even when you give them evidence/encouragement you think ought to change their mind.
But here's the thing, being antagonist towards people on the fence about vaccination does more to push them away than encourage them (subjective opinion from first hand observations). In the case of Tolbs and his sister that's a literal captive audience who really ultimately doesn't have a say because she's a child. Conversely when people get on my wife's case about vaccines I can see the level of annoyance just compounding over time. She definitely isn't being encouraged by people trying to guilt her into doing something she isn't ready to do (myself included). I suspect that a lot of people who are equally on the fence feel the same way and only get discouraged by people giving the riot act on vaccines. All this "social encouragement" stuff throughout COVID has really just fallen flat on it's face from the word go.
Some people were abused by a doctor or knew somebody who was killed by Opioid abuse and that may be a factor why some people would side with anti-vax politicians. But its just me trying to learn to pretend how to look at people who do not have a biology degree like I do though. I had to learn what my family members know about biology and what knowledge gaps I can fill them in with about vaccine research and the FDA clinical trials process. Also Vaccine exemption laws
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-21/sb276-california-vaccine-law-fight-gavin-newsom-legislature-how-it-happened (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-21/sb276-california-vaccine-law-fight-gavin-newsom-legislature-how-it-happened)
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-09-24/california-law-to-restrict-medical-vaccine-exemptions-raises-questions-over-control (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-09-24/california-law-to-restrict-medical-vaccine-exemptions-raises-questions-over-control)
I had to explain California vaccine exemptions laws and it only accepts medical exemptions. Note medical exemptions to vaccines is subjected to medical board audit in the state.
There hasn't been any that I've seen, but her doctor told her to be cautious. Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine. That's kind of why I don't think you guys don't do a great job of putting yourself in the shoes of other people and trying to understand why they aren't banging down the door to get vaccinated. Not everyone who hasn't been a vaccinated is an anti-vaxer or COVID denier.
Edit; also for some reason she thought that it might affect male fertility for awhile too. Given she never had a basis for that thought it was a pretty easy argument to counter.
CDC says vaccines do not affect fertility or pregnancy.
So, still brat territory. And you're right, the way to deal with brats is not to give them the attention they deserve.
Truth be told, I'm only venting on here because I'm just tired this whole ridiculous situation. Whether it is persuasive or not, so be it.
I have advised her of the CDC changing their stance on fertility. She won't budge until her doctor says it's okay. Truth be told I can see why (after 2020 and the Trump Administration's mishandling of the pandemic) why she would trust her doctor over the CDC.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Of course, there's also a reason why patients seek 2nd opinions. Docs often disagree on treatments, procedures and assessments. 2 friends can see 2 different doctors, and could easily get 2 different sets of guidence.
I'm 38 and she's 36, neither of us have a kid. We are also on our first marriage each, some would say that we did everything the responsible way and waited.
But to that end I've never disrespected you like this before. You've never met Jessica, but a fair amount of people you associate with on this forum have. None of them would ever describe her as someone who hates humanity.
Don't get me wrong the prospect of the huge financial black hole and time burden put me off of idea most of my life. Hell, we probably wouldn't have bothered trying if we ended up with our niece if my brother in-law's adoption fell through.
When I was with my ex a few years ago, I was going to get a vasectomy since we were both sure we didn’t want kids. She had a mental breakdown and left me, and the urologist I was planning to get it done at closed right after, so I never got around to it, but my stance hasn’t changed. If anything, the pandemic has made me even more sure I don’t want kids. But I’m not going to shame people who do.
And the reverse was true for us, I was planning more or less the same thing. We hadn't been planning on it but COVID played a part in changing our minds, or at least giving it a shot. I know full well (she does too) at both our ages that it's no guarantee. If it doesn't work out I'm content with that and I'm pretty sure (not 100%) she is too.
Meanwhile, I experienced an exact opposite set of circumstances from you, and still arrived at the same conclusion. My last employer was very lax when it comes to COVID protocols–or to be more accurate, went for a set of "security theater" protocols that any reasonable person could see could nonetheless allow the virus to spread (e.g. requiring temperature checks and mask wearing for entry, but then allowing customers to remove masks to smoke indoors). They were unwilling to enforce a stricter protocol due to a perceived risk of losing revenue from customers unwilling to comply with them. At the same time Oklahoma reacted very aggressively against any sort of statewide mask mandate, and has expressed no interest in establishing a COVID passport system.
So I found myself in a situation where my safety was, I feel like, willfully threatened by my employer, with the state likewise failing to have my back, which directly led to me leaving that job. Although I have been working on a personal business venture, it isn't ready to make any money yet, so I am going to have to get a job with someone else in the meantime. I got vaccinated because, among other reasons, it means that I don't have to worry so much about being put into a situation like the one I left last July, where the organization with the most control over my day-to-day life demonstrates that it has no regard for my safety or well-being. Being vaccinated at least means I have one tool to use in my defense.
If NE2 hasn't disrespected you before, it's probably just a matter of him having not gotten around to doing it yet.
Of course not, but modern America is full of tankies. There was already some commentary upthread about tying people who don't want to get vaccinated down and jabbing them against their will. It may have been presented as a joke, but don't for a second think there aren't a significant number of people out there who would be okay with this actually happening, if not outright supportive of it.
So I doubt the average person being a pain in someone's ass about their decision not to get vaccinated really cares whether it is effective at convincing them. Because it doesn't matter - if it convinces them great, but if it doesn't then their continued refusal will be used as justification for finding ways to punish them for their decision. And if that still doesn't work, it will be used as justification for ultimately taking away their freedom to make the decision for themselves.
Geeze I missed that one, in what context is was that said?
(click quote link for context)
The percentage vaccinated matters much more than whether any one specific individual is vaccinated or not.
That percentage probably is eventually going to be just a big of a barrier this next year towards lessening restrictions. So to that end, I can see why people get frustrated when others in their circle won't or are hesitant to get vaccinations.
For the record, if anyone is wondering I wasn't one of those people. That was my wife he referred to and I think that I handled my retort reasonably. I don't think something like that needs to be "moderated out."
That said, I didn't take it as "tongue and cheek" either, but that's just my opinion. Maybe I would feel differently if there wasn't a mountain of evidence that suggests he really does think that way towards other people. That said it's worth noting Jessica is not on this forum nor would really care what he said anyways.
Concur. Even as someone with dry humor, NE2's humor is next-level dry. You can't take anything he posts too literally or get offended by it.
I think you're making a bit of an unwarranted assumption in concluding that NE2's comments are intended as "humor," and I say that as someone who enjoys deadpan stuff. To some degree, NE2's comments remind me of the sorts of comments our nephew used to make before he grew up enough to develop a brain-to-mouth filter (such as the time about six years ago when our then-12-year-old nephew told me that I'm getting a lot of grey hair; he was not mature enough to understand my sarcastic response of, "Gee, thank you, I never would have known that without your help!"). I can't come up with what I think is an appropriate way to say any more than that, so I will just leave it there.
On the plus side, if NE2 behaves the same way in person as he does on this forum, then he'd probably alienate most women to the point where probably isn't too much risk of him ever having kids who will grow up to behave the same way he does.
NE2 is a very prolific Wikipedia editor. If he acted there the way he does on this forum, he would have been blocked long ago.
And now every country right around it too. Pakistan and Nepal are getting crushed.
Chris
I guess what I meant was that it doesn't really matter if he thinks it's humor, because regardless, if you take it seriously and/or get offended by it, you are playing right into his hands. So it's best to just assume a lack of seriousness and not worry too much about what his intentions were.
However, it will hopefully have the added benefit of cooling down, and potentially saving, this thread. Enjoy :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz8P8rgkKPY
Even if you're trying to be funny you probably ought not tell someone that his wife hates the world for waiting to near middle age to have one kid. I'm not really offended, I'm more disappointed. A lot of us interact and know each other outside this forum, we talk about people in the road community. A lot of people go to bat for NE2 despite the things he says to people on this forum. I want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but how can I in this instance when there is so much evidence (by his own actions on this forum) to support that he meant what he said? I'm not the nicest person myself, but what he said took things to a whole another level.
Plus you are all missing that he also said that Jessica wants the pandemic to go on because she is hesitant to get a vaccine. That plays right into the point I was making pages back on how that attitude can backfire and push people away from getting one.
Just a few pages back people in this thread were suggesting fining people, and not letting them go to college or have a job if they don't get vaccinated. It's disturbing to me that people want to take other's freedoms away over this just because they don't agree with them.
The two largest public universities in Colorado will have a vaccine requirement for this coming school year. Similarly, there has long been a polio/MMR vaccine requirement for public schools of all ages. I don't see why it'd be any different for Covid.
Chris
It's disturbing to me that many people's barometer of liberty is how much they're allowed to endanger unwilling/unknowing strangers that they may encounter. Many people believe incorrectly that they only risk themselves through their actions. I'm no bleating "you could kill someone's grandma", and this goes to many issues beyond vaccines.
All Rothman and his incessant "everyone should get the shot" babble is doing is convincing me that he's a jerk.
*personal opinion emphasized :bigass:
Truth be told, I might be more inclined to get the shot if people -- and by people I mean AA Roads posters, celebrities, random Twitter blue-checks, governors, television networks, etc., basically everybody -- would just shut up about it. The more you push me to do something, the more resistant I am to do it, whether it's cleaning out the garage or getting a shot. There's honestly more peer pressure involved in getting this stupid shot than I ever experienced as a teen to smoke, drink, do drugs, skip school, or anything else.
I have weighed the pros and cons of getting the shot and find that no benefits accrue from me taking it. If you can still catch covid, if you can still spread covid, if you still have to wear a mask and not gather in large groups, then why would I take a shot with possible known short-term side effects and unknown long-term side effects if it's not guaranteed to keep me from catching a virus that I don't have that great of a chance of catching in the first place? Especially given my own history with the flu; in that I've never had a flu shot and I've never had the flu despite numerous exposures over the years that would have gotten me imprisoned at home for two weeks if it had been covid, regardless of whether or not I got sick?
I respect the decision of those who took the shot under the presumption that it was in their own best interests. I don't think it's too much to ask for the same respect for a different decision.
And I honest-to-God hope that Dan Moraseski never reproduces. I don't have any kids. I didn't really want to have any, for a variety of reasons, but I understand that many (most) people do. Whether he was kidding or not, that statement was way out of line.
I don't want to further derail this thread, but I will add that I completely agree with what you said here. I'm not defending his comment at all, I found it to be unscrupulous and unnecessary, and didn't think it added anything to the discussion.
But my point is that it is also important to take anything said on the Internet with a few grains of salt and not read too much into it, since it's basically impossible to know for sure what someone's thoughts/feelings/motivations are. In other words, neither "Haha, funny joke" or "NE2 is terrible!" is the appropriate response here. Ultimately, discussing his comment only amplifies it further, so the best response might just be no response at all.
Goodness gracious, we are off the rails, but anyways, I think this is what they agree about:
Because getting this shot helps society at large. Those other things you could have been pressured to do have a far more limited scope in their effect on others. If we can't come together on wanting to eliminate a pandemic, what can we have society unite on at this point?
Chris
To add to this: there are two main reasons why there is so much pressure. The first is that there is literally no other way you can help so many people by doing so little. Just going and getting a simple vaccine helps the life, health, and yes, economic status of so many people because we need to reach a certain percentage of immunity to get back to normal life.
The second is that, from the very beginning of the pandemic, the President chose to lie about it and politicize it because the response to the pandemic made the stock market go down. Those lies began to spread like wildfire and people believed them. Remember the Plandemic video and "America's Frontline Doctors"? That stuff was scientifically and demonstrably proven false yet people still cling to those things rather than listen to what actual science is saying. That has made it infinitely harder to convince people of something so basic as getting a vaccine saves other people's lives.
There's a lot of "I heard my spouse's cousin's daughter's father's cousin's mother's distant friend had X happen" but no one seems to know someone directly who had X happen.
Yeah, my comments have been jerky, but you just confirmed that you're bratty, just like I described (i.e., "I'd get a shot if people would shut up about it.").
The shot's safe, short-term effects are tolerable and long-term effects are nonexistent. The shot is free. Getting the shot gets us back to something closer to normal.
Therefore, by not getting the shot, you're preventing us from getting out from under restrictions...just out of spite more than anything.
So, by not getting the shot because people won't shut up about it, you're just like that third-grader in PE class I talked about: Enjoying the attention they get from inconveniencing the majority.
But one could make the argument that if people are that level of afraid of vaccines, shouldn't an actual live virus scare them just as much? But then again, that's me on the outside looking at a irrational thought with rational thinking.
Question: What is your covid vaccination status?
Option 1: I have taken the first shot, but not yet taken the second one.
votes: 22
Option 2: I have taken both shots.
votes: 74
Option 3: I plan to take the one-dose shot when it's available in my area.
votes: 4
Option 4: My priority group is not yet eligible, but I plan to take it when I can.
votes: 16
Option 5: I have not had covid and I don't plan to take the shot at all.
votes: 14
Option 6: I've already had covid so I don't need to/don't plan to take the shot.
votes: 3
Option 7: I've already had covid but I do plan to take the shot.
votes: 7
Title: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:32:12 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:32:12 PM
Who has and who hasn't taken the covid shot, and who doesn't plan to take it at all?
I chose to make it three options for those who haven't taken it yet to register their choice for the one-dose or two-dose shot.
I chose to make it three options for those who haven't taken it yet to register their choice for the one-dose or two-dose shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US71 on March 04, 2021, 09:34:55 PM
Post by: US71 on March 04, 2021, 09:34:55 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:32:12 PM
Who has and who hasn't taken the covid shot, and who doesn't plan to take it at all?
I chose to make it three options for those who haven't taken it yet to register their choice for the one-dose or two-dose shot.
I'd prefer the single dose, but I'll take whatever I can find when my turn comes around.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 04, 2021, 09:36:14 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 04, 2021, 09:36:14 PM
Not eligible for it yet. Will get it when I am in a few months.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 09:43:04 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 09:43:04 PM
I've registered and am waiting for an appointment and will take what I can get when the time comes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 09:43:51 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 09:43:51 PM
Also not eligible for it yet, but hopefully will be soon. I am in the priority category after the current one due to my industry. I may end up getting it faster than someone in a comparable situation in another state because I think there are lots of Oklahomans turning it down.
I would prefer one of the two-dose shots, due to the higher efficacy rating of them, but if I am offered Johnson & Johnson I won't turn it down.
I have had covid, but still intend to get the shot simply to add another layer of protection against the new strains that have developed since I had it. I have heard recently that some studies show that previous covid experience + one dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine may be equivalent to two doses of Pfizer/Moderna in someone who has no prior covid experience.
I would prefer one of the two-dose shots, due to the higher efficacy rating of them, but if I am offered Johnson & Johnson I won't turn it down.
I have had covid, but still intend to get the shot simply to add another layer of protection against the new strains that have developed since I had it. I have heard recently that some studies show that previous covid experience + one dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine may be equivalent to two doses of Pfizer/Moderna in someone who has no prior covid experience.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 10:06:34 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 10:06:34 PM
I'll take whatever's available. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 04, 2021, 10:11:28 PM
Post by: oscar on March 04, 2021, 10:11:28 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 09:43:04 PM
I’ve registered and am waiting for an appointment and will take what I can get when the time comes.
Same here, similar registration system for the next county over from 1995hoo.
In Arlington, there are three vaccination centers, one of which is for the one-shot J&J vaccine and the other two for one or the other of the two-shot vaccines. I'm in an eligible group (not quite enough age, but with underlying conditions). Yesterday evening, after my county got some more vaccine, I was finally able to sign up for an appointment at one of the two-shot centers, Monday morning next week. Two-shot is my preference, I didn't check on the one-shot center before signing up with a two-shot center.
There's no poll option for "I plan to take a two-dose vaccine as soon as I can". I held off to cast a vote for the first poll option, once I got my first shot.
Nor is there a poll option for other people who have received the one-dose vaccine, so there is no way for them to be counted as having completed their vaccination except to pretend that they received both shots of the two-dose vaccine. Maybe change "I have taken both shots" to "I have completed my vaccination".
BTW, I got two non-COVID vaccinations, the same day in January. Two sore arms for a few days. I'm a freaking pincushion anyway, so two COVID shots rather than one is not a problem for me other than the inconvenience. But I was planning a shingles vaccine booster shot in about two weeks, which had to be rescheduled to mid-April to avoid interference with the COVID shots.
UPDATE: Just got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine this morning (3/8/21); so far, so good. Three weeks, at least, to get the second dose. For people opting for a two-dose vaccine (by choosing a vax center offering only two-dose vaccines), the county gets both Pfizer and Moderna from the state. Which one you get depends on which one the county got in its last shipment, so it's semi-random, and you aren't given a choice.
Also, today I got a scheduling ticket to get the vaccine from my health plan. I updated my medical record to show that I've started my vaccination elsewhere.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 04, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 04, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
Where's the "Eligible, but haven't registered yet"?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:21:04 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:21:04 PM
I edited the poll to allow users to change their response, since their vaccination status may change if this thread stays open a while..
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
My choice is not in the list: It depends.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
Also, it's quite likely my wife will be eligible before I am. She operates a licensed home daycare, but relatives don't become at the same time providers do.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
Also, it's quite likely my wife will be eligible before I am. She operates a licensed home daycare, but relatives don't become at the same time providers do.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 10:32:50 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 10:32:50 PM
I think different states are using different priority criteria. Kentucky is using five levels: 1A, 1B, 1C, 2, and 3.
I'm in 1C. If not for underlying health conditions, I'd be in 2 for the rest of this year until I turn 60 in December. My age, group home residency status and occupation don't put me any higher. I'm 59, don't live in a nursing home, and am not in one of the professions considered "essential" or otherwise eligible for early vaccinations such as teachers.
I'm in 1C. If not for underlying health conditions, I'd be in 2 for the rest of this year until I turn 60 in December. My age, group home residency status and occupation don't put me any higher. I'm 59, don't live in a nursing home, and am not in one of the professions considered "essential" or otherwise eligible for early vaccinations such as teachers.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
Remember back when we called Covid "coronavirus"? It was just about a year ago that coronavirus was rising to prominence in our lexicon.
I am obviously not eligible for the vaccine yet, but hopefully the distribution moves along as planned.
I am obviously not eligible for the vaccine yet, but hopefully the distribution moves along as planned.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ClassicHasClass on March 04, 2021, 10:42:07 PM
Post by: ClassicHasClass on March 04, 2021, 10:42:07 PM
Poked twice. :poke:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:56 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
My choice is not in the list: It depends.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
I would encourage you to consider getting it anyway, even if it seems like cases are dying down in your area. The more people that get the shot, the faster it will die down.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:46:14 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:46:14 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
Remember back when we called Covid "coronavirus"? It was just about a year ago that coronavirus was rising to prominence in our lexicon.
I've gotten regrettably used to the word COVID. I still, however, prefer simply calling it "the virus". Because that's still the only one anyone's talking about, so why bother using an ugly specific name for it?
Also, the virus itself is "coronavirus" and the sickness it causes "COVID". They are different things. Kind of like herpes/shingles.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:47:16 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:56 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
My choice is not in the list: It depends.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
I would encourage you to consider getting it anyway, even if it seems like cases are dying down in your area. The more people that get the shot, the faster it will die down.
The thing is, I know people who had terrible side-effects from the vaccine–knocked out with COVID-like symptoms for a few days.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on March 04, 2021, 10:55:05 PM
Post by: bm7 on March 04, 2021, 10:55:05 PM
I don't plan on getting it. It's quite possible I've already been exposed to the virus since I work at an essential business and have contact with a lot of people every day, and I'm young enough that the chances of me getting seriously sick from it are very low. I know that for a lot of people the vaccine basically gives them a mild-to-moderate case of the virus you're trying to avoid anyway, so I don't see the point in getting it. Eventually the virus will either go away, or there will be more strains of it and being vaccinated against one strain won't do much good anyway.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:58:52 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:58:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:47:16 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:56 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
My choice is not in the list: It depends.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
I would encourage you to consider getting it anyway, even if it seems like cases are dying down in your area. The more people that get the shot, the faster it will die down.
The thing is, I know people who had terrible side-effects from the vaccine–knocked out with COVID-like symptoms for a few days.
Personally, even if I get the full covid symptoms that I had with the actual virus for a week, I am going to take the shot. Simply because if I do so I know I am immune from it, and that means I can see my grandma again without worrying about giving it to her. Having covid sucked, but not having the vaccine would suck worse. (And, as bad as it is for some people, in my personal case, covid wasn't the most unpleasant disease I can remember having–strep throat still takes the prize for that.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on March 04, 2021, 11:03:36 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on March 04, 2021, 11:03:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:47:16 PMThese aren't terrible side effects, not even close. Unpleasant? Sure. But Covid symptoms like that aren't harmful on their own, and it will save lives.Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:56 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
My choice is not in the list: It depends.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
I would encourage you to consider getting it anyway, even if it seems like cases are dying down in your area. The more people that get the shot, the faster it will die down.
The thing is, I know people who had terrible side-effects from the vaccine–knocked out with COVID-like symptoms for a few days.
I am not eligible, but I intend to line up for the shot whenever I can. I'd prefer the Pfizer and Moderna shots but I'll take J&J if I have to.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 11:06:51 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 11:06:51 PM
And AstraZeneca and Novavax when they become available?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 11:14:02 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 11:14:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:47:16 PM
The thing is, I know people who had terrible side-effects from the vaccine–knocked out with COVID-like symptoms for a few days.
Personally, even if I get the full covid symptoms that I had with the actual virus for a week, I am going to take the shot. Simply because if I do so I know I am immune from it, and that means I can see my grandma again without worrying about giving it to her. Having covid sucked, but not having the vaccine would suck worse. (And, as bad as it is for some people, in my personal case, covid wasn't the most unpleasant disease I can remember having–strep throat still takes the prize for that.)
Also, it's likely that being vaccinated is going to become a requirement for certain things, many of which probably haven't even occurred to us yet. It almost certainly will be for international travel.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 04, 2021, 11:25:19 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 04, 2021, 11:25:19 PM
I have received both vaccines (Moderna) through the Puyallup Tribal Health Authority. First dose in early January, second in early February.
The first dose hit me harder by a huge margin. Apparently that's unusual. Second dose was some minor upper-arm aches, and only for an afternoon.
For those who think 25 is too early to be getting the vaccine: the vaccine that I received was only available to members of the Puyallup Tribe, and they have enough doses for the entire tribe.
The first dose hit me harder by a huge margin. Apparently that's unusual. Second dose was some minor upper-arm aches, and only for an afternoon.
For those who think 25 is too early to be getting the vaccine: the vaccine that I received was only available to members of the Puyallup Tribe, and they have enough doses for the entire tribe.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 04, 2021, 11:40:02 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 04, 2021, 11:40:02 PM
Given my wife had a confirmed case of COVID and I likely had it as well months prior I don't see it as a "need" probably for conventional reasons. I see vaccination (or lack thereof) as a potential road block to travel that I want to partake in. To that end I'll take what I can get to remove the potential barrier before it has a chance to become an issue. That said, I have zero inkling to wait in some sort of vaccination line for hours (I have almost no patience anymore) and would prefer to have an appointment set up with my employer or doctor at a future date.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dlsterner on March 05, 2021, 12:45:38 AM
Post by: dlsterner on March 05, 2021, 12:45:38 AM
Well, if I were just 2½ years older, I would be eligible right now. As it stands, I will easily be in the next phase (Phase 2) that Maryland opens up (hopefully soon), and I plan to get the vaccine as soon as practical.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on March 05, 2021, 01:02:46 AM
Post by: US 89 on March 05, 2021, 01:02:46 AM
I will get whatever vaccine I can get whenever I can.
Unfortunately, Georgia's vaccine rollout has been pathetic to say the least. Our vaccine distributed/vaccine given ratio is either in dead last or very close to it, and there seems to be a lot of finger pointing without any sort of real plan.
I was originally in phase 1b, which I was told was going to happen in the middle of February. That obviously has not happened. And with the latest update that moved teachers up to 1a, phases 1b and 1c are no longer even defined. So who the hell knows when I'll be able to get anything.
Unfortunately, Georgia's vaccine rollout has been pathetic to say the least. Our vaccine distributed/vaccine given ratio is either in dead last or very close to it, and there seems to be a lot of finger pointing without any sort of real plan.
I was originally in phase 1b, which I was told was going to happen in the middle of February. That obviously has not happened. And with the latest update that moved teachers up to 1a, phases 1b and 1c are no longer even defined. So who the hell knows when I'll be able to get anything.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2021, 01:45:10 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2021, 01:45:10 AM
My wife got her second shot today. I am eligible in 16 days.
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 05, 2021, 02:01:29 AM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 05, 2021, 02:01:29 AM
I'd prefer the one-dose shot just so I don't have to make the time to go back later, but obviously I'll take whatever they have. I have no clear idea on when I'll be eligible, but it might be ahead of the general public rollout because I'm overweight. I've heard less fury about obesity being an eligibility criteria than I expected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus vaccination status?
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 05, 2021, 04:07:05 AM
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 05, 2021, 04:07:05 AM
I plan to get the shots as soon as possible when I become eligible. Spain has finished vaccinating those living in retirement homes, and is currently vaccinating the rest of the elderly people (my grandmother, age 98, got her first shot on Wednesday) and those workers considered essential (doctors, teachers, police, etc).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 05, 2021, 05:55:55 AM
Post by: bandit957 on March 05, 2021, 05:55:55 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:32:12 PM
Who has and who hasn't taken the covid shot, and who doesn't plan to take it at all?
I chose to make it three options for those who haven't taken it yet to register their choice for the one-dose or two-dose shot.
I'm in tier 1C in Kentucky because of high-risk medical conditions, but still I can't get an appointment. I hope I can get the one-dose vaccine, but I'll accept whatever is available.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: catch22 on March 05, 2021, 06:40:46 AM
Post by: catch22 on March 05, 2021, 06:40:46 AM
My wife and I get our first shots today, second scheduled for three weeks from today. We're both in Michigan's Group 1C (65+).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 05, 2021, 07:24:48 AM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 05, 2021, 07:24:48 AM
My wife got her first shot on the first day shots were given out in Indiana, and her second one three weeks later.
I'm not eligible yet, but Indiana just opened it to 50+ so it shouldn't be too long now.
I'm not eligible yet, but Indiana just opened it to 50+ so it shouldn't be too long now.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Avalanchez71 on March 05, 2021, 07:53:50 AM
Post by: Avalanchez71 on March 05, 2021, 07:53:50 AM
I prefer not to have Covid nor the medication the media touts as a vaccination.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 07:53:59 AM
Post by: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 07:53:59 AM
It's sad reading how young people in other states are eligible now or soon, and my garbage state that touts it's super-elite medical system is way behind. You need 2 co-morbidities in Mass but some as complete bullshit. I guess if I started smoking I could make myself eligible (despite or due to all the bicycling, due to my muscle mass I am "obese").
I'll be lining up for mine when available.
I'll be lining up for mine when available.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 05, 2021, 08:02:02 AM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 05, 2021, 08:02:02 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 05, 2021, 07:53:50 AM
I prefer not to have Covid nor the medication the media touts as a vaccination.
Forget the media for a second and answer this question: Do you disbelieve the claims of every single medication produced by Pfizer and Moderna, or just this one?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on March 05, 2021, 08:18:55 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on March 05, 2021, 08:18:55 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 07:53:59 AM
It's sad reading how young people in other states are eligible now or soon, and my garbage state that touts it's super-elite medical system is way behind. You need 2 co-morbidities in Mass but some as complete bullshit. I guess if I started smoking I could make myself eligible (despite or due to all the bicycling, due to my muscle mass I am "obese").
I'll be lining up for mine when available.
According to https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html (paywalled), Massachusetts is near the top on first doses (as a percentage of population) and about average on second doses.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: OCGuy81 on March 05, 2021, 08:41:02 AM
Post by: OCGuy81 on March 05, 2021, 08:41:02 AM
I'm not eligible yet, but I plan to get it.
My wife is scheduled for hers since she's a teacher. She's hoping for the J&J one and done shot.
My wife is scheduled for hers since she's a teacher. She's hoping for the J&J one and done shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 05, 2021, 08:44:55 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 05, 2021, 08:44:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 05, 2021, 08:02:02 AMQuote from: Avalanchez71 on March 05, 2021, 07:53:50 AM
I prefer not to have Covid nor the medication the media touts as a vaccination.
Forget the media for a second and answer this question: Do you disbelieve the claims of every single medication produced by Pfizer and Moderna, or just this one?
(https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6QfY0iceT137C8X2lNvxhQHaFE&pid=Api&P=0&w=241&h=166)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on March 05, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
Post by: Ketchup99 on March 05, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 05, 2021, 07:53:50 AMWhat's wrong with the vaccine?
I prefer not to have Covid nor the medication the media touts as a vaccination.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ET21 on March 05, 2021, 09:02:04 AM
Post by: ET21 on March 05, 2021, 09:02:04 AM
Waiting for Illinois to go into Phase 1C which is me. Whatever is available I'll take but I hope to get the one shot. I've had the "temporary immunity" after getting Covid back around New Years but I'm sure that's worn off by now
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on March 05, 2021, 09:23:38 AM
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on March 05, 2021, 09:23:38 AM
I've had both shots. Moderna. I work for the state health department at one of the local county offices, so I'm in Virginia's phase 1a.
That second shot really kicked my ass, though, I was achy for the better part of a week afterward. Glad it's over with, though.
That second shot really kicked my ass, though, I was achy for the better part of a week afterward. Glad it's over with, though.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: texaskdog on March 05, 2021, 09:31:03 AM
Post by: texaskdog on March 05, 2021, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:47:16 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:56 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
My choice is not in the list: It depends.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
I would encourage you to consider getting it anyway, even if it seems like cases are dying down in your area. The more people that get the shot, the faster it will die down.
The thing is, I know people who had terrible side-effects from the vaccine—knocked out with COVID-like symptoms for a few days.
Like when people get the flu shot and get the flu? Hard pass on the vaccine for me. I know it's awful to get but the survival rate is high enough that I won't worry.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on March 05, 2021, 09:35:18 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on March 05, 2021, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on March 05, 2021, 09:31:03 AMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:47:16 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:56 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
My choice is not in the list: It depends.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
I would encourage you to consider getting it anyway, even if it seems like cases are dying down in your area. The more people that get the shot, the faster it will die down.
The thing is, I know people who had terrible side-effects from the vaccine–knocked out with COVID-like symptoms for a few days.
Like when people get the flu shot and get the flu? Hard pass on the vaccine for me. I know it's awful to get but the survival rate is high enough that I won't worry.
The flu shot has a somewhat low efficiency because it rapidly mutates. If someone gets the flu shot and then the flu, it just means the vaccine didn't work; the shot did not cause the flu.
The COVID vaccine has a higher efficiency rate. In addition, it has been tested against the new variants, and it works just as well.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 05, 2021, 09:41:10 AM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 05, 2021, 09:41:10 AM
Quote from: 1 on March 05, 2021, 09:35:18 AMQuote from: texaskdog on March 05, 2021, 09:31:03 AMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:47:16 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 10:45:56 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:31:48 PM
My choice is not in the list: It depends.
I'm not eligible for the shot yet. When I finally do become eligible, it's possible that COVID will have already died down enough that I no longer think it's worth it to get vaccinated. It all depends on how things play out.
If you had asked me two months ago, then my answer would have been a pretty confident YES. But now I'm not so certain.
I would encourage you to consider getting it anyway, even if it seems like cases are dying down in your area. The more people that get the shot, the faster it will die down.
The thing is, I know people who had terrible side-effects from the vaccine–knocked out with COVID-like symptoms for a few days.
Like when people get the flu shot and get the flu? Hard pass on the vaccine for me. I know it's awful to get but the survival rate is high enough that I won't worry.
The flu shot has a somewhat low efficiency because it rapidly mutates. If someone gets the flu shot and then the flu, it just means the vaccine didn't work; the shot did not cause the flu.
The COVID vaccine has a higher efficiency rate. In addition, it has been tested against the new variants, and it works just as well.
A flu shot is predictive. It gets made several months before flu season so that there are enough doses for everybody. Some years are better than others in predicting which strains will become dominant.
COVID vaccine is reactive. The vaccine is based on a known strain so it will by its nature be much more effective.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: index on March 05, 2021, 09:52:15 AM
Post by: index on March 05, 2021, 09:52:15 AM
NC should be opening up to my group, 4, on the 23rd. Group 4 is for people with health conditions that put them at higher risk for severe illness from COVID (such as myself). When that comes I plan to get the shot as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: OCGuy81 on March 05, 2021, 10:11:20 AM
Post by: OCGuy81 on March 05, 2021, 10:11:20 AM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on March 05, 2021, 09:23:38 AM
I've had both shots. Moderna. I work for the state health department at one of the local county offices, so I'm in Virginia's phase 1a.
That second shot really kicked my ass, though, I was achy for the better part of a week afterward. Glad it's over with, though.
My sister is a nurse and reported a similar side effect with Pfizer. Round 1 was no issues, round 2 she said knocked her on her ass most of the following day.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 10:12:41 AM
Post by: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 10:12:41 AM
Quote from: 1 on March 05, 2021, 08:18:55 AMQuote from: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 07:53:59 AM
It's sad reading how young people in other states are eligible now or soon, and my garbage state that touts it's super-elite medical system is way behind. You need 2 co-morbidities in Mass but some as complete bullshit. I guess if I started smoking I could make myself eligible (despite or due to all the bicycling, due to my muscle mass I am "obese").
I'll be lining up for mine when available.
According to https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html (paywalled), Massachusetts is near the top on first doses (as a percentage of population) and about average on second doses.
Don't care when prisoners, teachers in school systems that are 100% remote, and smokers go first. A few weeks ago Mass was 47th in vaccination rate so at least we improved a bit.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: GaryV on March 05, 2021, 10:29:42 AM
Post by: GaryV on March 05, 2021, 10:29:42 AM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on March 05, 2021, 09:23:38 AMI'm glad I got mine in my arm. :bigass:
That second shot really kicked my ass, though, I was achy for the better part of a week afterward.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Question for those here. I see a lot are very interested in the J&J vaccine (the one-shot dose). Is that just because you only want to take one shot? Or some other reason?
I only ask as its efficacy is a little lower than the Pfizer and Moderna versions. I'll happily take whatever they'll give me, but if I had my choice, I'd pick the one that works the best (Pfizer based on both trial and real-world data).
Chris
I only ask as its efficacy is a little lower than the Pfizer and Moderna versions. I'll happily take whatever they'll give me, but if I had my choice, I'd pick the one that works the best (Pfizer based on both trial and real-world data).
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ET21 on March 05, 2021, 10:50:59 AM
Post by: ET21 on March 05, 2021, 10:50:59 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 05, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Question for those here. I see a lot are very interested in the J&J vaccine (the one-shot dose). Is that just because you only want to take one shot? Or some other reason?
I only ask as its efficacy is a little lower than the Pfizer and Moderna versions. I'll happily take whatever they'll give me, but if I had my choice, I'd pick the one that works the best (Pfizer based on both trial and real-world data).
Chris
Doesn't matter to me, just stick me so I can actually gain back a partial normal life. More than likely we'll need a booster later this year or next year like the flu shot, update it annually
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on March 05, 2021, 10:58:28 AM
Post by: Mapmikey on March 05, 2021, 10:58:28 AM
I received my first shot on 3/3 (Pfizer) and am scheduled for shot #2 on 3/24.
Just a little arm soreness for about 36 hrs.
I got mine through my employer which includes a research hospital. They divided all employees in 8 priority groups and I was in group 4.
My wife is in the "rest of the population" group (Virginia) so she is signed up through the state's website but has not yet been invited to make an appointment.
If enough people who medically can do not get the vaccine (or stop taking spread precautions as a few states are starting to do now), there is a real possibility the virus mutates enough we will have to get vaccinated every year like the flu because Covid becomes endemic.
The concept of herd immunity can only really fully work if the percentage of people who need to be vaccinated for a particular virus is proportionally spread. If you have large pockets of places with high non-vaccination rates, then those places will continue to see cases and potentially worse mutations (which might then affect vaccinated groups). This is why we still have occasional measles outbreaks - a community (of any definition) who does not vaccinate for whatever reason finally comes into contact with somebody who has the measles and that community gets hit with an outbreak. Because measles vaccination is near-universal in the US, this only happens in limited circumstances these days.
Just a little arm soreness for about 36 hrs.
I got mine through my employer which includes a research hospital. They divided all employees in 8 priority groups and I was in group 4.
My wife is in the "rest of the population" group (Virginia) so she is signed up through the state's website but has not yet been invited to make an appointment.
If enough people who medically can do not get the vaccine (or stop taking spread precautions as a few states are starting to do now), there is a real possibility the virus mutates enough we will have to get vaccinated every year like the flu because Covid becomes endemic.
The concept of herd immunity can only really fully work if the percentage of people who need to be vaccinated for a particular virus is proportionally spread. If you have large pockets of places with high non-vaccination rates, then those places will continue to see cases and potentially worse mutations (which might then affect vaccinated groups). This is why we still have occasional measles outbreaks - a community (of any definition) who does not vaccinate for whatever reason finally comes into contact with somebody who has the measles and that community gets hit with an outbreak. Because measles vaccination is near-universal in the US, this only happens in limited circumstances these days.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bwana39 on March 05, 2021, 10:58:38 AM
Post by: bwana39 on March 05, 2021, 10:58:38 AM
In Northeast Texas, the availability has gotten much better. In Texarkana (Texas) and Longview, there are appointments available in virtually every session. As of yesterday, there were appointments available for this weekend. The 1A's and a MODIFIED 1B class can easily get it if they just sign up.
1B includes those over 65 years of age, anyone with a wide range of medical conditions including BMI over 30. (For a 6' tall man that would equate to 225 pounds more or less and for a 5'3" woman 170#.) Diabetes, cancer, heart disease, respiratory problems (including some chronic allergy diagnoses). autoimmune diseases, and other chronic or severe illnesses or diseases. Things not on the list can be approved on a case by case basis. They have modified the 1b criteria to include teachers, day-care workers, and select other professions even those who are healthy and under 65.
1A is first responders, medical professionals, employees of medical providers, and certain other priority groups.
1B includes those over 65 years of age, anyone with a wide range of medical conditions including BMI over 30. (For a 6' tall man that would equate to 225 pounds more or less and for a 5'3" woman 170#.) Diabetes, cancer, heart disease, respiratory problems (including some chronic allergy diagnoses). autoimmune diseases, and other chronic or severe illnesses or diseases. Things not on the list can be approved on a case by case basis. They have modified the 1b criteria to include teachers, day-care workers, and select other professions even those who are healthy and under 65.
1A is first responders, medical professionals, employees of medical providers, and certain other priority groups.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 05, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 05, 2021, 12:26:16 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 11:14:02 PM
Also ... being vaccinated ... almost certainly will be for international travel.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 04, 2021, 11:40:02 PM
I see vaccination (or lack thereof) as a potential road block to travel that I want to partake in. To that end I'll take what I can get to remove the potential barrier before it has a chance to become an issue.
And this is a big deal for me. Y'all know already that I travel with some regularity to Mexico. I need to renew my passport, and I always go for the book instead of the card, just in case I need to travel outside of North America because of my role in church missions.
Our friends who are living as missionaries in Mexico were scheduled to drive north this past Saturday, drop the kids off with relatives in Wichita, and spend a week of "couple" time in a Colorado cabin before returning to Wichita for the birth of their third baby (due in late April). The day before, a week ago today, the two kids and the mom got rapid COVID tests just in case the results came in handy while crossing the border. And they all three came back positive. It was a shocker, as they all had zero symptoms. So now they've been stuck for a week, under home quarantine, waiting the seven to ten days and praying they don't develop symptoms, which would delay their return even further. And this is all WITHOUT any actual legal requirements for crossing the border! If they had never gotten tested, they would have been none the wiser and we probably would have had dinner with them in our house already.
As it is, no vaccinations are required for us to travel to Mexico. Tetanus is a good idea, hepatitis and cholera might be a good idea for time spent away from treated water, but none of it's actually required. It would be strange if we would have to have vaccination papers in the future.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2021, 12:26:16 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 11:14:02 PM
Also ... being vaccinated ... almost certainly will be for international travel.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 04, 2021, 11:40:02 PM
I see vaccination (or lack thereof) as a potential road block to travel that I want to partake in. To that end I'll take what I can get to remove the potential barrier before it has a chance to become an issue.
And this is a big deal for me. Y'all know already that I travel with some regularity to Mexico. I need to renew my passport, and I always go for the book instead of the card, just in case I need to travel outside of North America because of my role in church missions.
Our friends who are living as missionaries in Mexico were scheduled to drive north this past Saturday, drop the kids off with relatives in Wichita, and spend a week of "couple" time in a Colorado cabin before returning to Wichita for the birth of their third baby (due in late April). The day before, a week ago today, the two kids and the mom got rapid COVID tests just in case the results came in handy while crossing the border. And they all three came back positive. It was a shocker, as they all had zero symptoms. So now they've been stuck for a week, under home quarantine, waiting the seven to ten days and praying they don't develop symptoms, which would delay their return even further. And this is all WITHOUT any actual legal requirements for crossing the border! If they had never gotten tested, they would have been none the wiser and we probably would have had dinner with them in our house already.
As it is, no vaccinations are required for us to travel to Mexico. Tetanus is a good idea, hepatitis and cholera might be a good idea for time spent away from treated water, but none of it's actually required. It would be strange if we would have to have vaccination papers in the future.
Considering my Wife has about half of her family members in Mexico this would be the primary concern for me regarding the so called "vaccination passport." Not being able to see family I know isn't acceptable for her just as much as it is/has been for me. I rather just eliminate the possibility of a potential problem regarding a vaccination requirement even it never becomes reality.
To that end she does plan to travel to Jalisco during the summer. I'm to understand her game plan is to get COVID tested sometime prior to going out and flying back. Considering how much grief I got for going to Jalisco before the first COVID shut down in California I'll probably won't be poking that bear myself until 2022.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:21 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2021, 12:26:16 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 11:14:02 PM
Also ... being vaccinated ... almost certainly will be for international travel.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 04, 2021, 11:40:02 PM
I see vaccination (or lack thereof) as a potential road block to travel that I want to partake in. To that end I'll take what I can get to remove the potential barrier before it has a chance to become an issue.
And this is a big deal for me. Y'all know already that I travel with some regularity to Mexico.
Yup, that's exactly why I figured it was worth mentioning. With the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a requirement as early as May or June. We all remember this time last year when things started to change dramatically... I have a feeling this year could have a similar phase, but in the opposite direction as stuff starts to open and travel picks up again.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:33 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:33 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 05, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Question for those here. I see a lot are very interested in the J&J vaccine (the one-shot dose). Is that just because you only want to take one shot? Or some other reason?
I just thought one shot would be easier, and wouldn't take as long.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 12:45:04 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 12:45:04 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:21 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 05, 2021, 12:26:16 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 11:14:02 PM
Also ... being vaccinated ... almost certainly will be for international travel.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 04, 2021, 11:40:02 PM
I see vaccination (or lack thereof) as a potential road block to travel that I want to partake in. To that end I'll take what I can get to remove the potential barrier before it has a chance to become an issue.
And this is a big deal for me. Y'all know already that I travel with some regularity to Mexico.
Yup, that's exactly why I figured it was worth mentioning. With the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a requirement as early as May or June. We all remember this time last year when things started to change dramatically... I have a feeling this year could have a similar phase, but in the opposite direction as stuff starts to open and travel picks up again.
I think it might be more likely on the State level than Federal. There was some serious resistance on the Federal side to mandating COVID tests as a nation wide flight requirement. With Mexico specifically I don't see either tests or vaccinations ever being a requirement on their end for international travel.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Post by: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 05, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Question for those here. I see a lot are very interested in the J&J vaccine (the one-shot dose). Is that just because you only want to take one shot? Or some other reason?
I only ask as its efficacy is a little lower than the Pfizer and Moderna versions. I'll happily take whatever they'll give me, but if I had my choice, I'd pick the one that works the best (Pfizer based on both trial and real-world data).
Chris
I fear that with the upcoming discrimination against those without a vaccine, we're going to have a sub-layer of discrimination against those that have the J&J one because it's "not as good".
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:54:11 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:54:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 12:45:04 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:21 PM
Yup, that's exactly why I figured it was worth mentioning. With the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a requirement as early as May or June. We all remember this time last year when things started to change dramatically... I have a feeling this year could have a similar phase, but in the opposite direction as stuff starts to open and travel picks up again.
I think it might be more likely on the State level than Federal. There was some serious resistance on the Federal side to mandating COVID tests as a nation wide flight requirement. With Mexico specifically I don't see either tests or vaccinations ever being a requirement on their end for international travel.
Testing is a bit different because it's recurring and is something you'd have to get done before every flight, while the vaccine is one-and-done (or two-and-done if you want to get technical) for the most part. Even if not for Mexico, I could see it as a requirement for countries in Europe, the UK, Australia, etc.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 05, 2021, 01:03:12 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 05, 2021, 01:03:12 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
To that end she does plan to travel to Jalisco during the summer. I'm to understand her game plan is to get COVID tested sometime prior to going out and flying back. Considering how much grief I got for going to Jalisco before the first COVID shut down in California I'll probably won't be poking that bear myself until 2022.
The lady who runs the business that cleans our office building was stuck in Jalisco recently, because her US visa had elapsed but she couldn't get a new one yet. I became involved because we needed tax information from her, she was in a remote village with no cell reception or fax machine, and her business partner doesn't speak English.
As it stands now, a negative COVID result within four (?) days of travel is required to enter the US by air–whether you're a US citizen or not. Land crossings are not restricted in that way. Southbound, I'm not aware of any restrictions at all.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 01:13:53 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 01:13:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2021, 01:03:12 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
To that end she does plan to travel to Jalisco during the summer. I'm to understand her game plan is to get COVID tested sometime prior to going out and flying back. Considering how much grief I got for going to Jalisco before the first COVID shut down in California I'll probably won't be poking that bear myself until 2022.
The lady who runs the business that cleans our office building was stuck in Jalisco recently, because her US visa had elapsed but she couldn't get a new one yet. I became involved because we needed tax information from her, she was in a remote village with no cell reception or fax machine, and her business partner doesn't speak English.
As it stands now, a negative COVID result within four (?) days of travel is required to enter the US by air–whether you're a US citizen or not. Land crossings are not restricted in that way. Southbound, I'm not aware of any restrictions at all.
To that end I have been trying to convince her to drive because her Dad is already kind of weird about flying and wants to go. Sounds like that might be a better bet anyways given driving over isn't as restrictive. Usually they cross the border in Nogales by car.
Also, I should note I was referring to domestic flights up thread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:54:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 05, 2021, 12:45:04 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:21 PM
Yup, that's exactly why I figured it was worth mentioning. With the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a requirement as early as May or June. We all remember this time last year when things started to change dramatically... I have a feeling this year could have a similar phase, but in the opposite direction as stuff starts to open and travel picks up again.
I think it might be more likely on the State level than Federal. There was some serious resistance on the Federal side to mandating COVID tests as a nation wide flight requirement. With Mexico specifically I don't see either tests or vaccinations ever being a requirement on their end for international travel.
Testing is a bit different because it's recurring and is something you'd have to get done before every flight, while the vaccine is one-and-done (or two-and-done if you want to get technical) for the most part. Even if not for Mexico, I could see it as a requirement for countries in Europe, the UK, Australia, etc.
Hell I wouldn't put it past Canada to make vaccination a requirement.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2021, 02:18:31 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2021, 02:18:31 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 12:49:42 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 05, 2021, 10:36:14 AM
Question for those here. I see a lot are very interested in the J&J vaccine (the one-shot dose). Is that just because you only want to take one shot? Or some other reason?
I only ask as its efficacy is a little lower than the Pfizer and Moderna versions. I'll happily take whatever they'll give me, but if I had my choice, I'd pick the one that works the best (Pfizer based on both trial and real-world data).
Chris
I fear that with the upcoming discrimination against those without a vaccine, we're going to have a sub-layer of discrimination against those that have the J&J one because it's "not as good".
It's still plenty good. 77% or whatever it is is not only better than flu shots, but it was also done with less than a year of time going by. It really is amazing what they were able to do. And if everyone got the J&J, we'd we well past the benchmark for herd immunity. I'd happily get it if I could get it before the others. Just if I had a choice, I might as well get the best. Either way, the first day I'm eligible, I'll be scouring for appointments. I'm also signed up for some of those text alerts where they let you know if they have extra vaccines at the end of a day. Obviously haven't been reached out to yet with one of those.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Big John on March 05, 2021, 03:28:06 PM
Post by: Big John on March 05, 2021, 03:28:06 PM
One new factor is the Catholic Church is telling its members not to take the J&J shot because stem cells were used to make the vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on March 05, 2021, 03:56:37 PM
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on March 05, 2021, 03:56:37 PM
Quote from: Big John on March 05, 2021, 03:28:06 PM
One new factor is the Catholic Church is telling its members not to take the J&J shot because stem cells were used to make the vaccine.
Which makes no sense since other vaccines (including flu vaccine) are developed using fetal stem cells and the Catholic Church isn't telling people not to take those vaccines.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 05, 2021, 04:29:24 PM
Post by: oscar on March 05, 2021, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: Big John on March 05, 2021, 03:28:06 PM
One new factor is the Catholic Church is telling its members not to take the J&J shot because stem cells were used to make the vaccine.
It's just the New Orleans archdiocese, not the Church as a whole. AIUI, others in the Catholic hierarchy disagree.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on March 05, 2021, 04:35:33 PM
Post by: US 89 on March 05, 2021, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: Big John on March 05, 2021, 03:28:06 PM
One new factor is the Catholic Church is telling its members not to take the J&J shot because stem cells were used to make the vaccine.
This is a misleading headline - I read their actual statement and it looked like their main point was that Catholics should choose Pfizer or Moderna over J&J if they have a choice. They said the public hazard of COVID was high enough that taking the J&J shot would be justified if there weren't other alternatives - similar to the existing MMR vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 05, 2021, 09:04:26 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 05, 2021, 09:04:26 PM
Quote from: US 89 on March 05, 2021, 04:35:33 PMSo...discouraging, then.Quote from: Big John on March 05, 2021, 03:28:06 PM
One new factor is the Catholic Church is telling its members not to take the J&J shot because stem cells were used to make the vaccine.
This is a misleading headline - I read their actual statement and it looked like their main point was that Catholics should choose Pfizer or Moderna over J&J if they have a choice. They said the public hazard of COVID was high enough that taking the J&J shot would be justified if there weren't other alternatives - similar to the existing MMR vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 05, 2021, 09:47:54 PM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 05, 2021, 09:47:54 PM
I'm in Connecticut, which has gotten national headlines recently for abandoning plans to prioritieze "essential workers" and "high risk health conditions" and just go by age. It's obviously frustrating for essential workers and those at risk, but I had been wondering how they were going to verify those statuses, or if there were going to be issues with people untruthfully claiming those statuses.
My age group and my probable position in "high risk" have me pretty much in the same place in line....but annoyingly, my wife (also high risk) is in the group behind me. We have a long list of things queued up to do after we've been vaccinated and had enough time to build immunity...so I'm thinking this change delays those plans by a few weeks. As one of those things is driving down to Memphis to see my father (he had to be moved to memory care last year; we got on site to visit him and deal with various formalities two hours after that facility had to start refusing visitors)...this is annoying.
That retirement community recently revised its visitors policy: folks coming to visit folks in the independent living section have to show proof of vaccination or be subjected to a rapid test. They're still obliged by CMS to be COVID-free before allowing visitors into the assisted living or nursing wings...even though all the residents have been vaccinated.
Count me in the camp of folks who believes that vaccinations will likely be required for getting into Canada. Since pre-pandemic, I worked "in" Montréal in addition to shuttling back and forth between Memphis and CT.....
My age group and my probable position in "high risk" have me pretty much in the same place in line....but annoyingly, my wife (also high risk) is in the group behind me. We have a long list of things queued up to do after we've been vaccinated and had enough time to build immunity...so I'm thinking this change delays those plans by a few weeks. As one of those things is driving down to Memphis to see my father (he had to be moved to memory care last year; we got on site to visit him and deal with various formalities two hours after that facility had to start refusing visitors)...this is annoying.
That retirement community recently revised its visitors policy: folks coming to visit folks in the independent living section have to show proof of vaccination or be subjected to a rapid test. They're still obliged by CMS to be COVID-free before allowing visitors into the assisted living or nursing wings...even though all the residents have been vaccinated.
Count me in the camp of folks who believes that vaccinations will likely be required for getting into Canada. Since pre-pandemic, I worked "in" Montréal in addition to shuttling back and forth between Memphis and CT.....
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 05, 2021, 10:29:30 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 05, 2021, 10:29:30 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:21 PMProbably for domestic travel too. NY just exempted people who had their second shot more than two weeks but not more than three months ago from quarantine requirements. It makes me wonder if we might never go back to the "shit list" system (much less full normal) and just leave the current requirements for non-vaccinated people (perhaps extending the vaccine exemption as we learn more about how long immunity lasts) in place indefinitely. Vermont may well do the same. And a vaccine will almost certainly be required to cross the US/Canada border in the future.
Yup, that's exactly why I figured it was worth mentioning. With the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a requirement as early as May or June. We all remember this time last year when things started to change dramatically... I have a feeling this year could have a similar phase, but in the opposite direction as stuff starts to open and travel picks up again.
Heck, I could see Canada fragmenting into travel zones over this. I could see checkpoints put up on the NB/QC, QC/NL, ON/MB, MB/SK, AB/BC, BC/YT (to the extent this is possible on the Alaska Highway), BC/NT, and AB/NT borders to restrict travel to those not vaccinated (if you've been keeping up, this would make out for travel zones consisting of BC, AB/SK, MB, ON/QC*, NB/NS/PEI/NL, YT/NT, and NU) on a semi-permanent basis.
*I would think there would be a couple areas of Québec that would instead bubble with the Atlantic provinces: Blanc-Sablon (as it's isolated from the rest of the province and is one end of the ferry connecting the island of Newfoundland to Labrador) and Les ÃŽles-de-la-Madeleine (only accessible via a ferry from Prince Edward Island).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 05, 2021, 10:33:52 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 05, 2021, 10:33:52 PM
It seems to me that the priorities are all over the place. I'm even seeing different age cutoffs for what's called Priority 1C. In Kentucky, that is for people 60 and older, or people younger than 60 if they have certain health conditions. Priority 2 is everyone below 60 not in one of the higher priority groups. Priority 3 is those below the age cutoff for whom the vaccine hasn't been approved/isn't recommended yet. Looks like in some states, you have to be 65 to make it in 1C. And I've seen different ages for that cutoff limit, 18 in some places and 16 in others.
Smokers were originally included in 1C, but now smoking is not considered a factor in prioritizing shot recipients.
Smokers were originally included in 1C, but now smoking is not considered a factor in prioritizing shot recipients.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 05, 2021, 10:35:57 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 05, 2021, 10:35:57 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 05, 2021, 10:29:30 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 12:42:21 PMProbably for domestic travel too. NY just exempted people who had their second shot more than two weeks but not more than three months ago from quarantine requirements. It makes me wonder if we might never go back to the "shit list" system (much less full normal) and just leave the current requirements for non-vaccinated people (perhaps extending the vaccine exemption as we learn more about how long immunity lasts) in place indefinitely. Vermont may well do the same. And a vaccine will almost certainly be required to cross the US/Canada border in the future.
Yup, that's exactly why I figured it was worth mentioning. With the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a requirement as early as May or June. We all remember this time last year when things started to change dramatically... I have a feeling this year could have a similar phase, but in the opposite direction as stuff starts to open and travel picks up again.
If they try to make domestic travel restrictions permanent, I foresee a court battle over that. There's already precedent in federal court that the so-called "travel ban" Kentucky enacted by executive order requiring a 14-day quarantine was ruled unconstitutional.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 05, 2021, 10:39:11 PM
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 05, 2021, 10:39:11 PM
I don't really agree with the states classifying teachers as "frontline essential workers" for vaccination eligibility. Yes, they are important to society and if we want to send children back for in-person learning, but they aren't up there with the nurses, doctors, and ER staff toughing it out and dealing with the pandemic up-front in and day out. They can still do their jobs from home. Give a vaccine to all or at least most of 65+ people, healthcare workers, grocery store workers, and nursing home staff before you give one to young/middle-aged, healthy teachers.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 11:03:09 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 11:03:09 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 05, 2021, 10:29:30 PM
NY just exempted people who had their second shot more than two weeks but not more than three months ago from quarantine requirements.
Out of curiosity, what's the point of specifying no more than three months ago? As I recall, vaccines weren't even being administered three months ago.
Quote from: vdeane on March 05, 2021, 10:29:30 PMIt makes me wonder if we might never go back to the "shit list" system (much less full normal) and just leave the current requirements for non-vaccinated people (perhaps extending the vaccine exemption as we learn more about how long immunity lasts) in place indefinitely. Vermont may well do the same. And a vaccine will almost certainly be required to cross the US/Canada border in the future.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the current requirements remain in place, but they should also be irrelevant once you get the vaccine, so you'd think it should start to feel more or less like normal once we get past the next few months of vaccinating people.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 05, 2021, 10:39:11 PM
I don't really agree with the states classifying teachers as "frontline essential workers" for vaccination eligibility. Yes, they are important to society and if we want to send children back for in-person learning, but they aren't up there with the nurses, doctors, and ER staff toughing it out and dealing with the pandemic up-front in and day out. They can still do their jobs from home.
I agree that they're not quite up there with doctors, nurses and ER staff, but re-opening schools is definitely a big priority and for good reason. But it doesn't make sense for the teachers to get vaccinated and then continue to teach from home, so the key is to get the schools opened.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 06, 2021, 03:55:38 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 06, 2021, 03:55:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 05, 2021, 11:03:09 PMNo more than three months between when you got the second shot and when you travel. Nobody's sure how long immunity lasts with the vaccine, so that's all they were comfortable with relaxing restrictions for. It's not applicable yet, but it will be soon, unless they decide to lengthen the amount of time since the second shot they're comfortable relaxing restrictions for.
Out of curiosity, what's the point of specifying no more than three months ago? As I recall, vaccines weren't even being administered three months ago.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ozarkman417 on March 06, 2021, 04:05:29 PM
Post by: ozarkman417 on March 06, 2021, 04:05:29 PM
As a teenager, I do not foresee myself getting the vaccine for at least some months. The good news is that come the end of the month, both of my parents will have had both of their doses administered.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ftballfan on March 07, 2021, 12:14:11 AM
Post by: ftballfan on March 07, 2021, 12:14:11 AM
My grandma (81 years old, lives alone, no major comorbidities) has had both shots. I took her to get her first shot in late January.
Both of my parents will be eligible in a couple of weeks (my dad is eligible now due to being 65+) and plan on getting signed up when we return from Florida at the end of the month. My grandma showed no ill effects from the shots, so I plan on signing up when I am eligible.
Both of my parents will be eligible in a couple of weeks (my dad is eligible now due to being 65+) and plan on getting signed up when we return from Florida at the end of the month. My grandma showed no ill effects from the shots, so I plan on signing up when I am eligible.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tidecat on March 07, 2021, 01:20:09 AM
Post by: tidecat on March 07, 2021, 01:20:09 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 05, 2021, 05:55:55 AMI just booked one at Walmart in Winchester (about 80 miles from home for me). Probably best to check just after midnight for availability.Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:32:12 PM
Who has and who hasn't taken the covid shot, and who doesn't plan to take it at all?
I chose to make it three options for those who haven't taken it yet to register their choice for the one-dose or two-dose shot.
I'm in tier 1C in Kentucky because of high-risk medical conditions, but still I can't get an appointment. I hope I can get the one-dose vaccine, but I'll accept whatever is available.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 07, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 07, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
NY either recently expanded its "comorbidity" list or I was just clueless, but I am hopefully getting my first shot today. Check your state's eligibility requirements...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 07, 2021, 01:42:39 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 07, 2021, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 07, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
NY either recently expanded its "comorbidity" list or I was just clueless, but I am hopefully getting my first shot today. Check your state's eligibility requirements...
Here's a tracker to follow NY's vaccination progress:
https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/covid-19-vaccine-tracker
Hamilton County is already up to 45.5% of the population with at least one dose, no big surprise considering the aging population up there.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 07, 2021, 05:27:27 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 07, 2021, 05:27:27 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 07, 2021, 01:42:39 PMGot my first shot successfully. Well-run huge site at the State Fairgrounds.Quote from: Rothman on March 07, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
NY either recently expanded its "comorbidity" list or I was just clueless, but I am hopefully getting my first shot today. Check your state's eligibility requirements...
Here's a tracker to follow NY's vaccination progress:
https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/covid-19-vaccine-tracker
Hamilton County is already up to 45.5% of the population with at least one dose, no big surprise considering the aging population up there.
Hamilton's also between the big State-run sites in Syracuse and Potsdam, so perhaps their location and small population helped things.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 07, 2021, 10:24:14 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 07, 2021, 10:24:14 PM
Quote from: tidecat on March 07, 2021, 01:20:09 AMQuote from: bandit957 on March 05, 2021, 05:55:55 AMI just booked one at Walmart in Winchester (about 80 miles from home for me). Probably best to check just after midnight for availability.Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:32:12 PM
Who has and who hasn't taken the covid shot, and who doesn't plan to take it at all?
I chose to make it three options for those who haven't taken it yet to register their choice for the one-dose or two-dose shot.
I'm in tier 1C in Kentucky because of high-risk medical conditions, but still I can't get an appointment. I hope I can get the one-dose vaccine, but I'll accept whatever is available.
Not sure where you live in the Bluegrass, but unless you're like me and live out in the sticks, you probably have to pass a lot of other places to drive that distance to get to Winchester.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 08, 2021, 09:05:53 AM
Post by: bandit957 on March 08, 2021, 09:05:53 AM
My first dose of the COVID vaccine is scheduled for this Friday.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kevinb1994 on March 08, 2021, 07:30:46 PM
Post by: kevinb1994 on March 08, 2021, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 08, 2021, 09:05:53 AMMy mother has her second dose of the Moderna vaccine scheduled for this Friday. Like when she got the first dose, it will be via the Mayo Clinic. Glad it's nearby.
My first dose of the COVID vaccine is scheduled for this Friday.
I'm still unsure as to when I am supposed to be vaccinated. My dad is likely to get his sometime after the age limit is lowered.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: index on March 09, 2021, 04:16:58 AM
Post by: index on March 09, 2021, 04:16:58 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on March 07, 2021, 12:14:11 AMMy father only had his first shot in January and hasn't come back for his second, I don't know why. He's almost 62 and actually wasn't even supposed to get a shot when he did, they just had someone who canceled their appointment when he was at a VA medical center, and they didn't want to waste any part of the vial since it was going to spoil. My mother is in her 50s and she got fully vaccinated just recently, she was in early due to being a CNA in long-term care.
My grandma (81 years old, lives alone, no major comorbidities) has had both shots. I took her to get her first shot in late January.
Both of my parents will be eligible in a couple of weeks (my dad is eligible now due to being 65+) and plan on getting signed up when we return from Florida at the end of the month. My grandma showed no ill effects from the shots, so I plan on signing up when I am eligible.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 09, 2021, 11:14:47 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 09, 2021, 11:14:47 AM
Quote from: index on March 09, 2021, 04:16:58 AM
My father only had his first shot in January and hasn't come back for his second, I don't know why. He's almost 62 and actually wasn't even supposed to get a shot when he did, they just had someone who canceled their appointment when he was at a VA medical center, and they didn't want to waste any part of the vial since it was going to spoil. My mother is in her 50s and she got fully vaccinated just recently, she was in early due to being a CNA in long-term care.
Isn't it still better than nothing? On Sunday, I heard from a lady at church (who is involved in vaccinations) that the first shot provides 60-65% immunity, and the second shot takes it up to 90-95%.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 09, 2021, 01:51:37 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 09, 2021, 01:51:37 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on March 07, 2021, 12:14:11 AM
My father only had his first shot in January and hasn't come back for his second, I don't know why. He's almost 62 and actually wasn't even supposed to get a shot when he did, they just had someone who canceled their appointment when he was at a VA medical center, and they didn't want to waste any part of the vial since it was going to spoil. My mother is in her 50s and she got fully vaccinated just recently, she was in early due to being a CNA in long-term care.
To my knowledge, whenever they give you the first dose they automatically schedule you for the second right then and there, specifically to avoid situations like this.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 09, 2021, 01:56:59 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 09, 2021, 01:56:59 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 09, 2021, 01:51:37 PMQuote from: ftballfan on March 07, 2021, 12:14:11 AM
My father only had his first shot in January and hasn't come back for his second, I don't know why. He's almost 62 and actually wasn't even supposed to get a shot when he did, they just had someone who canceled their appointment when he was at a VA medical center, and they didn't want to waste any part of the vial since it was going to spoil. My mother is in her 50s and she got fully vaccinated just recently, she was in early due to being a CNA in long-term care.
To my knowledge, whenever they give you the first dose they automatically schedule you for the second right then and there, specifically to avoid situations like this.
It's possible the appointment was set, but the gentleman just didn't show up for it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 09, 2021, 05:59:54 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 09, 2021, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 09, 2021, 01:51:37 PMQuote from: ftballfan on March 07, 2021, 12:14:11 AM
My father only had his first shot in January and hasn't come back for his second, I don't know why. He's almost 62 and actually wasn't even supposed to get a shot when he did, they just had someone who canceled their appointment when he was at a VA medical center, and they didn't want to waste any part of the vial since it was going to spoil. My mother is in her 50s and she got fully vaccinated just recently, she was in early due to being a CNA in long-term care.
To my knowledge, whenever they give you the first dose they automatically schedule you for the second right then and there, specifically to avoid situations like this.
Chris
That varies from state to state. It's definitely not the case here, based on what my wife and my mom said about getting their shots. My mom has had both; my wife has had the first and is waiting for a message about scheduling the second. I'm still on the waitlist.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 09, 2021, 06:31:05 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 09, 2021, 06:31:05 PM
Apparently scheduled for my first shot on Thursday.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 09, 2021, 07:22:40 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 09, 2021, 07:22:40 PM
Today was the first day of eligibility for essential-services workers in Oklahoma. I am scheduled for a Pfizer appointment in Ada tomorrow afternoon–everything closer in to Oklahoma City-Norman was booked solid.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 10, 2021, 10:57:22 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 10, 2021, 10:57:22 AM
I'll get it when I can, but I can only get one of them until my birthday in August.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: rawmustard on March 10, 2021, 12:53:21 PM
Post by: rawmustard on March 10, 2021, 12:53:21 PM
I got my first dose of Moderna on March 6 with the second dose scheduled for April 2. Since I'm a Department of Defense contractor, I get it through a DoD channel.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 10, 2021, 12:58:15 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 10, 2021, 12:58:15 PM
I plan to receive the covid vaccine once I become eligible, and prefer Pfizer or Moderna on the basis of their higher headline efficacy numbers, though I wouldn't turn down Johnson & Johnson if it were offered. I think the hassle of having to follow up with a second shot and the greater risk of temporarily disabling side effects are worth it for greater protection against long covid, which actually worries me more than hospitalization or death.
In late 2020, before vaccines became available under emergency use authorization, Kansas' vaccination plan used the same Phase 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, . . ., Phase 2, and Phase 3 nomenclature as the CDC and many other states. For public-facing messaging, at least, this has been changed to a five-phase plan with the individual phases numbered 1 through 5. Phase 1 was healthcare workers etc., while Phase 2 is ongoing and includes people 65 or older, certain economically significant workers (K-12 education, agriculture and aviation), and (controversially) prisoners. Phases 3 and 4 are for people ages 16-64 with underlying medical conditions corresponding to two separate gradations of risk, and Phase 5 includes everyone else. All counties are required to transition between phases at the same time. This has meant that when some counties have finished early, they've been required to pause immunization while their vaccines are diverted elsewhere. While this maximizes the short-term risk reduction, the optics are bad because they leave people in early-finisher counties feeling like they are being held hostage on behalf of the laggards. Any county that attempts to start vaccinating people in later phases on its own initiative is punished by having its vaccine allocations cancelled. Kansas reliably has per-capita vaccination numbers in the bottom ten among US states; this has been blamed on data-entry lags, with unclear explanations as to why these seem to affect us more than other states.
We have been told that the transition to Phase 3 will likely occur in the last week of this month or the first week of April. Sedgwick County is planning to open a second vaccination clinic and offer a choice between Pfizer/Moderna on the one hand and Johnson & Johnson on the other.
In late 2020, before vaccines became available under emergency use authorization, Kansas' vaccination plan used the same Phase 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, . . ., Phase 2, and Phase 3 nomenclature as the CDC and many other states. For public-facing messaging, at least, this has been changed to a five-phase plan with the individual phases numbered 1 through 5. Phase 1 was healthcare workers etc., while Phase 2 is ongoing and includes people 65 or older, certain economically significant workers (K-12 education, agriculture and aviation), and (controversially) prisoners. Phases 3 and 4 are for people ages 16-64 with underlying medical conditions corresponding to two separate gradations of risk, and Phase 5 includes everyone else. All counties are required to transition between phases at the same time. This has meant that when some counties have finished early, they've been required to pause immunization while their vaccines are diverted elsewhere. While this maximizes the short-term risk reduction, the optics are bad because they leave people in early-finisher counties feeling like they are being held hostage on behalf of the laggards. Any county that attempts to start vaccinating people in later phases on its own initiative is punished by having its vaccine allocations cancelled. Kansas reliably has per-capita vaccination numbers in the bottom ten among US states; this has been blamed on data-entry lags, with unclear explanations as to why these seem to affect us more than other states.
We have been told that the transition to Phase 3 will likely occur in the last week of this month or the first week of April. Sedgwick County is planning to open a second vaccination clinic and offer a choice between Pfizer/Moderna on the one hand and Johnson & Johnson on the other.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2021, 01:17:53 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2021, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on March 10, 2021, 12:53:21 PM
I got my first dose of Moderna on March 6 with the second dose scheduled for April 2. Since I'm a Department of Defense contractor, I get it through a DoD channel.
Same thing with me, it's all been arranged by the DOD since I run an essential department.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
I got the my first Pfizer dose at 3pm. I didn't feel the needle at all–the nurse instructed me to let my arm hang loose, I felt her do the alcohol swab, then it felt like she was swabbing again, and I looked over and that second swab was her putting on a bandage. I felt a little nauseous for the first few minutes after I got the shot, but I'm not sure that it had anything to do with the shot; could have been the gas-station chicken nuggets I got on the way out of Norman.
As of 9:30pm I feel like someone punched me in the arm, but I don't have any other side effects.
My wife got vaccinated at the same time. While she was in the 15-minute observation period, her phone rang. It was someone calling from a place she had interviewed with to tell her they were formally offering her a job! We spent the rest of the afternoon joking that she had to have had the most unique side effect from the vaccine possible.
I tried connecting to the internet and posting to the forum through my brain a few times, but it didn't work, so I can sadly report the vaccine does not, in fact, contain 5G.
As of 9:30pm I feel like someone punched me in the arm, but I don't have any other side effects.
My wife got vaccinated at the same time. While she was in the 15-minute observation period, her phone rang. It was someone calling from a place she had interviewed with to tell her they were formally offering her a job! We spent the rest of the afternoon joking that she had to have had the most unique side effect from the vaccine possible.
I tried connecting to the internet and posting to the forum through my brain a few times, but it didn't work, so I can sadly report the vaccine does not, in fact, contain 5G.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2021, 10:44:20 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2021, 10:44:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
I got the my first Pfizer dose at 3pm. I didn't feel the needle at all–the nurse instructed me to let my arm hang loose, I felt her do the alcohol swab, then it felt like she was swabbing again, and I looked over and that second swab was her putting on a bandage. I felt a little nauseous for the first few minutes after I got the shot, but I'm not sure that it had anything to do with the shot; could have been the gas-station chicken nuggets I got on the way out of Norman.
As of 9:30pm I feel like someone punched me in the arm, but I don't have any other side effects.
My wife got vaccinated at the same time. While she was in the 15-minute observation period, her phone rang. It was someone calling from a place she had interviewed with to tell her they were formally offering her a job! We spent the rest of the afternoon joking that she had to have had the most unique side effect from the vaccine possible.
I tried connecting to the internet and posting to the forum through my brain a few times, but it didn't work, so I can sadly report the vaccine does not, in fact, contain 5G.
What about Lizard People DNA? I could use club level access to the underground headquarters of the New World Order at Denver International Airport.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 10:58:36 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2021, 10:44:20 PM
I could use club level access to the underground headquarters of the New World Order at Denver International Airport.
I already have access to that as a forum admin.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 10, 2021, 11:31:40 PM
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 10, 2021, 11:31:40 PM
I got my one shot today at Tampa Greyhound Track.
I'm starting to regret it momentarily.
I'm starting to regret it momentarily.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 11, 2021, 07:21:03 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 11, 2021, 07:21:03 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on March 10, 2021, 11:31:40 PM
I'm starting to regret it momentarily.
Something's off with the verb tenses here. :D
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
As of 9:30pm I feel like someone punched me in the arm, but I don't have any other side effects.
I've heard you need to keep moving your arm ALL THE TIME to help with that.
Quote from: Rothman on March 11, 2021, 07:21:03 AMQuote from: D-Dey65 on March 10, 2021, 11:31:40 PM
I'm starting to regret it momentarily.
Something's off with the verb tenses here. :D
Perhaps poor grammar is a side-effect?
My wife gets her first shot later today, at a church across town. No clue when I'll be eligible.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 11, 2021, 12:58:47 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 11, 2021, 12:58:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 10:02:38 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 10:39:09 PMAs of 9:30pm I feel like someone punched me in the arm, but I don't have any other side effects.
I've heard you need to keep moving your arm ALL THE TIME to help with that.
I suspect the soreness has more to do with having a needle stuck in one's muscle. I felt that way after the last flu shot but otherwise had no noticeable side effects--no fever, chills, or malaise.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 11, 2021, 01:42:45 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 11, 2021, 01:42:45 PM
I'd be more inclined to get the shot -- any shot -- if I could get it in my butt instead of my arm.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 01:46:50 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 01:46:50 PM
In line for one as I write this post.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
My wife gets her first shot later today, at a church across town. No clue when I'll be eligible.
Of course, this comes as positivity rates in our county are lower than they've been since June, and illness onset is on a precipitous decline.
A little birdie flew in the window recently and told me the Sedgwick County commissioner will soon lift the remaining business and large gathering restrictions here, leaving only the mask and physical distancing orders in place.
I'll still probably get mine whenever I become eligible, just in case it presents a travel impediment not to.
(https://i.imgur.com/CNxZA8c.png)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 11, 2021, 02:24:20 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 11, 2021, 02:24:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 01:52:55 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
My wife gets her first shot later today, at a church across town. No clue when I'll be eligible.
Of course, this comes as positivity rates in our county are lower than they've been since June, and illness onset is on a precipitous decline.
We're seeing similar trends in OK. The December/January spike was associated with increased travel due to the holidays. And of course in mid-February, everyone was snowed in, so nobody had a chance to go out and breathe on other people. (This also meant that there was a trough in testing, however.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 03:08:29 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 03:08:29 PM
Got my first shot. Sadly no lizard attributes nor super powers so far, but I have 9 nine more minutes to find out.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 03:09:07 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 03:09:07 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 03:08:29 PM
Sadly no ... super powers so far ...
Which ones have you tried out?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 03:10:52 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 03:10:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 03:09:07 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 03:08:29 PM
Sadly no ... super powers so far ...
Which ones have you tried out?
No spider sense, no healing factor, can't fly, can't control the thoughts or others and no energy beams.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 03:12:30 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 03:12:30 PM
Ask them for another dose, see if it works better.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 03:13:52 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2021, 03:13:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 03:12:30 PM
Ask them for another dose, see if it works better.
Apparently I need to wait for April 8th for that. I'll have to get a wish list going for the second round.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 11, 2021, 03:18:17 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 11, 2021, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 11, 2021, 02:24:20 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 01:52:55 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
My wife gets her first shot later today, at a church across town. No clue when I'll be eligible.
Of course, this comes as positivity rates in our county are lower than they've been since June, and illness onset is on a precipitous decline.
We're seeing similar trends in OK. The December/January spike was associated with increased travel due to the holidays. And of course in mid-February, everyone was snowed in, so nobody had a chance to go out and breathe on other people. (This also meant that there was a trough in testing, however.)
Yesterday, the 7-day nationwide positivity rate was down to 4.1% - the lowest in over a year.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 11, 2021, 03:23:07 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 11, 2021, 03:23:07 PM
The 7-day death rate in Colorado is as low as it's been since 3/17/20 (the day I got furloughed the first time).
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 11, 2021, 03:24:17 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 11, 2021, 03:24:17 PM
I think Kentucky was 3.95% yesterday, which I think is the lowest since September.
Title: Re: Coronavirus vaccination status?
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 11, 2021, 03:43:56 PM
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 11, 2021, 03:43:56 PM
Meanwhile over here (Aragon, Spain) the positivity rate in the last 7 days has been 8%. High per some standards, but it is at the lowest level since mid-July.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 01:42:02 AM
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 01:42:02 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2021, 10:02:38 AMTry a mild fever and chill last night.Quote from: Rothman on March 11, 2021, 07:21:03 AMQuote from: D-Dey65 on March 10, 2021, 11:31:40 PM
I'm starting to regret it momentarily.
Something's off with the verb tenses here. :D
Perhaps poor grammar is a side-effect?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 02:00:33 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 02:00:33 AM
The first full day after getting the shot, I've experienced some continued soreness in the arm, plus some of those "flu-like symptoms" that they talk about–soreness in the joints, a little bit of warmness, and some fatigue, a lot like I'm partway through having a cold. Still better than having the real thing though.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 12, 2021, 02:38:36 AM
Post by: bugo on March 12, 2021, 02:38:36 AM
Why isn't there an option for "I haven't gotten first shot yet, but plan to in the near future" or "I have an appointment to get the first shot, but I haven't gotten it yet"? I have an appointment to get the first shot next week.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 12, 2021, 03:10:15 AM
Post by: bugo on March 12, 2021, 03:10:15 AM
I am getting my shot earlier than some groups are because I have hypertension. Having high blood pressure puts me at an elevated risk of serious permanent injury or death if I catch the virus. When I see somebody inside a store without a mask on, I get quite annoyed because they are literally putting my life and health at risk, and when I see a maskless moron, I think to myself "That person doesn't care if he kills me" or "That guy is trying to kill me. It makes me irate to think those stubborn, selfish, careless, reckless Typhoid Marys could wind up costing me my life because of their passive aggressive teen angst. Wear a damn mask, or stay the hell home.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 12, 2021, 04:02:03 AM
Post by: bugo on March 12, 2021, 04:02:03 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 10:32:50 PM
I think different states are using different priority criteria. Kentucky is using five levels: 1A, 1B, 1C, 2, and 3.
I'm in 1C. If not for underlying health conditions, I'd be in 2 for the rest of this year until I turn 60 in December. My age, group home residency status and occupation don't put me any higher. I'm 59, don't live in a nursing home, and am not in one of the professions considered "essential" or otherwise eligible for early vaccinations such as teachers.
Oklahoma has phases 1-4. I am in phase 2. They just opened up phase 3 a couple of days ago. Over 1.3 million doses have so far been distributed within the state.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 12, 2021, 04:07:27 AM
Post by: bugo on March 12, 2021, 04:07:27 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:46:14 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
Remember back when we called Covid "coronavirus"? It was just about a year ago that coronavirus was rising to prominence in our lexicon.
I've gotten regrettably used to the word COVID. I still, however, prefer simply calling it "the virus". Because that's still the only one anyone's talking about, so why bother using an ugly specific name for it?
Also, the virus itself is "coronavirus" and the sickness it causes "COVID". They are different things. Kind of like herpes/shingles.
The virus is called SARS-CoV-2, and it is a coronavirus, not "the" coronavirus. There are many types of coronaviruses, and SARS-CoV-2 is just one of them. The disease itself is called COVID-19.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 12, 2021, 09:41:36 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 12, 2021, 09:41:36 AM
So I'm technically not eligible until the 21st when CO goes into the next phase. But I preregistered on Kaiser's website with the proper info and then I got an email last night saying it's my turn, so it looks like I'm getting my first shot on Tuesday.
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 10:38:33 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 10:38:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 02:00:33 AM
The first full day after getting the shot, I've experienced some continued soreness in the arm, plus some of those "flu-like symptoms" that they talk about–soreness in the joints, a little bit of warmness, and some fatigue, a lot like I'm partway through having a cold. Still better than having the real thing though.
My wife got her first shot at 6:15 yesterday evening, and she had a sore arm afterward, had to keep moving it. I wrapped an ice pack on the injection site, and she took Advil, and she was good for the night. This morning, it's sore again. But, all told, no big deal, it seems.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 10, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
I felt a little nauseous for the first few minutes after I got the shot, but I'm not sure that it had anything to do with the shot; could have been the gas-station chicken nuggets I got on the way out of Norman.
Do you suffer from vasovagal syncope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_syncope#Vasovagal)? I do, though I never knew it had a name until about a year or two ago.
The first time I went to donate blood, back in my senior year of high school, I had to leave before I was even seen, because I greyed out while waiting in the chair. Whenever I have blood drawn, I have to ask the nurse to carry on a conversation with me at the same time, to keep my mind off the needle. When I had a chest X-ray recently (related to my wife's daycare licensing), I had to sit down on the floor afterward with a wet washcloth on my forehead–no needles involved. In fact, when I was driving my wife home from her vaccination yesterday and she told me her arm was starting to get sore, I could feel my blood pressure drop a bit, just listening to her.
Quote from: bugo on March 12, 2021, 04:07:27 AMQuote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:46:14 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
Remember back when we called Covid "coronavirus"? It was just about a year ago that coronavirus was rising to prominence in our lexicon.
I've gotten regrettably used to the word COVID. I still, however, prefer simply calling it "the virus". Because that's still the only one anyone's talking about, so why bother using an ugly specific name for it?
Also, the virus itself is "coronavirus" and the sickness it causes "COVID". They are different things. Kind of like herpes/shingles.
The virus is called SARS-CoV-2, and it is a coronavirus, not "the" coronavirus. There are many types of coronaviruses, and SARS-CoV-2 is just one of them. The disease itself is called COVID-19.
I know. I didn't say "the coronavirus".
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 10:46:17 AM
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 10:46:17 AM
The thing is, besides the fever and chill I had, this was really the only time I had it. I also felt really horny, to the point where if I had a girlfriend, she would've had a hard time walking the next day.
I know, I sound really sleazy with that last line, but it's still true.
:biggrin:
I know, I sound really sleazy with that last line, but it's still true.
:biggrin:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Henry on March 12, 2021, 10:54:36 AM
Post by: Henry on March 12, 2021, 10:54:36 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on March 12, 2021, 10:46:17 AMAre you sure it's not Viagra?
The thing is, besides the fever and chill I had, this was really the only time I had it. I also felt really horny, to the point where if I had a girlfriend, she would've had a hard time walking the next day.
I know, I sound really sleazy with that last line, but it's still true.
:biggrin:
Back to the subject at hand: I'm definitely going to take the shot soon.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NJRoadfan on March 12, 2021, 12:07:32 PM
Post by: NJRoadfan on March 12, 2021, 12:07:32 PM
Folks, the side effects are the vaccine doing its job. Nothing to worry about, its actually a good thing.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 12:19:05 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 12:19:05 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 12, 2021, 12:07:32 PM
Folks, the side effects are the vaccine doing its job. Nothing to worry about, its actually a good thing.
Well, of course. But they still aren't fun if they're severe.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 02:28:14 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 02:28:14 PM
I am mostly documenting my experience in case there is anyone reading who is considering not getting the shot because of they've heard of bad side effects. There are side effects to be sure, but they are exceedingly minor and much, much better than getting covid itself, having done both.
By this point the flu-like symptoms have gone away, and the soreness in my arm has diminished. I really only feel it if I turn my arm in certain ways.
By this point the flu-like symptoms have gone away, and the soreness in my arm has diminished. I really only feel it if I turn my arm in certain ways.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 02:30:35 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 02:28:14 PM
I am mostly documenting my experience in case there is anyone reading who is considering not getting the shot because of they've heard of bad side effects. There are side effects to be sure, but they are exceedingly minor and much, much better than getting covid itself, having done both.
By this point the flu-like symptoms have gone away, and the soreness in my arm has diminished. I really only feel it if I turn my arm in certain ways.
I know a young lady who had COVID and then got the vaccine less than three months later.
Don't do that! Be sure to wait the three months before vaccination.
She was knocked out for days with awful COVID-like symptoms.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jmacswimmer on March 12, 2021, 02:40:31 PM
Post by: jmacswimmer on March 12, 2021, 02:40:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 12, 2021, 02:28:14 PM
I am mostly documenting my experience in case there is anyone reading who is considering not getting the shot because of they've heard of bad side effects.
Speaking as someone else who had the 'rona and is hoping to get vaccinated soon, this is much appreciated.
Quote from: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 02:30:35 PM
I know a young lady who had COVID and then got the vaccine less than three months later.
Don't do that! Be sure to wait the three months before vaccination.
She was knocked out for days with awful COVID-like symptoms.
Oddly enough, my fiancée (thanks again for educating me on the proper usage/spelling in another thread :-D) got vaccinated roughly 2 months after we had it, and experienced zero side effects aside from the arm soreness. Which we were extremely surprised by, since we had also heard that the side effects can be worse if you've already had it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on March 12, 2021, 04:43:36 PM
Post by: SectorZ on March 12, 2021, 04:43:36 PM
Adding two to the pile for post-shot symptoms...
My wife (39 years old) had both shots and had zero symptoms
My mom (69 years old) had both shots. First shot had no symptoms, second had the flu-like aches and pains for two days, other wise fine after
I fully intend on getting mine when available. My wife works for a hospital so she was able to get hers quite early.
My wife (39 years old) had both shots and had zero symptoms
My mom (69 years old) had both shots. First shot had no symptoms, second had the flu-like aches and pains for two days, other wise fine after
I fully intend on getting mine when available. My wife works for a hospital so she was able to get hers quite early.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 12, 2021, 04:54:08 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 12, 2021, 04:54:08 PM
So I finally did get my first Pfizer shot today.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kevinb1994 on March 12, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Post by: kevinb1994 on March 12, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 12, 2021, 04:54:08 PMMy mother got her second shot (of the Moderna vaccine) today via the Mayo Clinic. Glad it's nearby.
So I finally did get my first Pfizer shot today.
Still don't know about myself, but it probably won't be too long before my father gets vaccinated, as the age limit is being lowered.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 12, 2021, 05:07:48 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 12, 2021, 05:07:48 PM
Governor of Colorado just came out saying vaccines will be available to everyone 16 and older by mid-April.
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 12, 2021, 05:11:35 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 12, 2021, 05:11:35 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 12, 2021, 05:07:48 PMGood news! Hopefully, Massachusetts follows suit.
Governor of Colorado just came out saying vaccines will be available to everyone 16 and older by mid-April.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
How are various jurisdictions handling eligibility verification? I've heard stories locally of people's IDs being checked before they are able to proceed with their appointments, but some states (such as Washington) appear to be on the honor system.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2021, 05:16:02 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2021, 05:16:02 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
How are various jurisdictions handling eligibility verification? I've heard stories locally of people's IDs being checked before they are able to proceed with their appointments, but some states (such as Washington) appear to be on the honor system.
With the DOD they had a list of commands and employee names that were registered to a specific appointment date. There was no specific age or physical condition requirement that I noticed. I'm just glad that I didn't have to figure out what the hell California is trying to do with appointments and screens.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 12, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 12, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
How are various jurisdictions handling eligibility verification? I've heard stories locally of people's IDs being checked before they are able to proceed with their appointments, but some states (such as Washington) appear to be on the honor system.
They asked for my ID, but they didn't ask to see my medical paperwork that showed I had underlying conditions.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 12, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 12, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
My wife and I got our first doses of Pfizer's vaccination.
I had heaches, nausea, a single vomitting incident and...hiccups.
My wife just got tired.
Can't wait for the second shot. Already arranged to take time off of work.
I had heaches, nausea, a single vomitting incident and...hiccups.
My wife just got tired.
Can't wait for the second shot. Already arranged to take time off of work.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 12, 2021, 05:28:47 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 12, 2021, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
How are various jurisdictions handling eligibility verification? I've heard stories locally of people's IDs being checked before they are able to proceed with their appointments, but some states (such as Washington) appear to be on the honor system.
I haven't heard in Colorado, but I'm hoping it's pretty lax. My phase, 1.b4, isn't eligible until the 19th, but I pre-registered with Kaiser Permanente with that information and they still told me I'm eligible now. So, I guess I'll go for my appointment on Tuesday and if it doesn't work, I'll try to reschedule another after the 19th. I would have just made my appointment on the 19th, but they didn't have appointments that far into the future.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2021, 05:29:07 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2021, 05:29:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 12, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
My wife and I got our first doses of Pfizer's vaccination.
I had heaches, nausea, a single vomitting incident and...hiccups.
My wife just got tired.
Can't wait for the second shot. Already arranged to take time off of work.
Hiccups is a new one I haven't heard of. Really it was nothing for me aside from a slightly sore left tricep. Apparently my second appointment is April 8th, I'll have to come in on a vacation day.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 12, 2021, 05:32:14 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 12, 2021, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2021, 05:29:07 PMThey aren't one of the side effects they warn you about. But, they definitely showed up within that 1-3 day period and disappeared likewise.Quote from: Rothman on March 12, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
My wife and I got our first doses of Pfizer's vaccination.
I had heaches, nausea, a single vomitting incident and...hiccups.
My wife just got tired.
Can't wait for the second shot. Already arranged to take time off of work.
Hiccups is a new one I haven't heard of. Really it was nothing for me aside from a slightly sore left tricep. Apparently my second appointment is April 8th, I'll have to come in on a vacation day.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 05:55:32 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2021, 05:55:32 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
How are various jurisdictions handling eligibility verification? I've heard stories locally of people's IDs being checked before they are able to proceed with their appointments, but some states (such as Washington) appear to be on the honor system.
My wife had to show her eligibility paperwork and ID at the check-in desk here in Wichita (Central Community Church) yesterday.
My mother-in-law was walking by a grocery store in Missouri the other day, and someone asked if she wanted a COVID shot, because they had some left over at the end of the day. Her employer had taken everyone's information weeks ago and was in charge of setting things up, her co-worker had already gotten a shot a week or two earlier, but she hadn't heard a word yet from her employer. So she said yes, went over, and got her first dose.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 3467 on March 12, 2021, 06:02:34 PM
Post by: 3467 on March 12, 2021, 06:02:34 PM
Got JNJ last Friday in Illinois. I checked 2 above since I am done. Took my pill bottles but they didn't check.
Did need DL so I could get the certificate.
Did need DL so I could get the certificate.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 3467 on March 12, 2021, 06:03:24 PM
Post by: 3467 on March 12, 2021, 06:03:24 PM
A neck ache after an hour and some aches Say evening and that was it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on March 12, 2021, 08:18:26 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on March 12, 2021, 08:18:26 PM
I'll be eligible due to my weight on 3/29.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ftballfan on March 12, 2021, 09:20:17 PM
Post by: ftballfan on March 12, 2021, 09:20:17 PM
I'll be eligible on 4/5 as Michigan just announced that all adults will be eligible on that date. I was on the fence with whether to get it or not at first, but after my grandma got both doses (Moderna) and experienced few if any side effects, I'm leaning toward getting it (I don't particularly care which vaccine I get).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 13, 2021, 04:02:26 AM
Post by: bugo on March 13, 2021, 04:02:26 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 05, 2021, 07:53:50 AM
I prefer not to have Wuhan flu nor the medication the media touts as a vaccination.
You might not have a choice.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 13, 2021, 07:03:37 AM
Post by: bandit957 on March 13, 2021, 07:03:37 AM
Yesterday the nationwide weekly positivity rate crashed down to 3.96%. This is easily the lowest since well over a year ago when there were few if any cases in the U.S.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: index on March 13, 2021, 07:19:18 AM
Post by: index on March 13, 2021, 07:19:18 AM
NC just bumped up the opening of group 4 to vaccines, which includes me, to March 17. J&J vaccine is probably really helping out with speeding things along.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 13, 2021, 01:58:01 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 13, 2021, 01:58:01 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
How are various jurisdictions handling eligibility verification? I've heard stories locally of people's IDs being checked before they are able to proceed with their appointments, but some states (such as Washington) appear to be on the honor system.
Stunningly, at no point did the Puyallup Tribal Health Authority ask me for identification. I had it with me, and I did have to fill out a form before I got my second vaccine, but still nothing about certifying my status as a member of the tribe. I actually joked with my girlfriend about getting her vaccinated with the tribe, since they don't seem to check IDs, but we decided the honor system was already working well elsewhere and would wait until later.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 13, 2021, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: oscar on March 13, 2021, 02:11:00 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
How are various jurisdictions handling eligibility verification? I've heard stories locally of people's IDs being checked before they are able to proceed with their appointments, but some states (such as Washington) appear to be on the honor system.
My county asked me for proof of identity, when I showed up for my appointment, and a few more times during the process. At the first ID check, I was told to keep my ID handy until I was done, rather than immediately put it back in my wallet. Nothing about proof of residency, or of working in the county, though that might've been verified behind the scenes before I was invited to make an appointment.
One Maryland county that had its act together on vaccinations, started insisting on proof of residency when people from a large but more disorganized neighboring county started hogging the appointment slots.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 13, 2021, 02:18:59 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 13, 2021, 02:18:59 PM
I woke up this afternoon and feel 100% fine. Barely any pain at the injection site, even if I press my fingers into it.
There was no verification when I entered the building and got in line–I was asked my name, the volunteer marked it off a paper list, and I had my hand marked with a highlighter (presumably to indicate I had an appointment; the same site had also been accepting walk-ins earlier in the day). I had my ID checked at the vaccination table, but I think that was mostly to see that I was the person the appointment was scheduled for (one of the nurses had a tablet that she cross-checked it with, I am guessing to mark the appointment as "done"), as well as filling out the CDC vaccination card. At no point during the enrollment process did the Oklahoma State Department of Health verify that I actually work in an essential-services industry–I don't think they even asked what industry I worked in, even in the form of supplying a NAICS code.
My guess is that because of the politicization of the virus, the partisan lean of Oklahomans, and the resulting vaccine skepticism, OSDH figured that if someone wanted the vaccine enough that they were willing to lie during the enrollment process, they may as well get a shot in their arm to get another vaccine in a willing body before they have to start the fight to convince the unwilling. That, and verification procedures distract from the primary mission of just vaccinating people.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 12, 2021, 05:14:55 PM
How are various jurisdictions handling eligibility verification? I've heard stories locally of people's IDs being checked before they are able to proceed with their appointments, but some states (such as Washington) appear to be on the honor system.
There was no verification when I entered the building and got in line–I was asked my name, the volunteer marked it off a paper list, and I had my hand marked with a highlighter (presumably to indicate I had an appointment; the same site had also been accepting walk-ins earlier in the day). I had my ID checked at the vaccination table, but I think that was mostly to see that I was the person the appointment was scheduled for (one of the nurses had a tablet that she cross-checked it with, I am guessing to mark the appointment as "done"), as well as filling out the CDC vaccination card. At no point during the enrollment process did the Oklahoma State Department of Health verify that I actually work in an essential-services industry–I don't think they even asked what industry I worked in, even in the form of supplying a NAICS code.
My guess is that because of the politicization of the virus, the partisan lean of Oklahomans, and the resulting vaccine skepticism, OSDH figured that if someone wanted the vaccine enough that they were willing to lie during the enrollment process, they may as well get a shot in their arm to get another vaccine in a willing body before they have to start the fight to convince the unwilling. That, and verification procedures distract from the primary mission of just vaccinating people.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 13, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 13, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 13, 2021, 02:18:59 PM
I woke up this afternoon and feel 100% fine. Barely any pain at the injection site, even if I press my fingers into it.
My wife's arm is still sore, two days later–but only while doing certain motions. Taking her left arm out of a sweatshirt is brutal for her. But Advil is keeping her going. And still zero other side-effects.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on March 13, 2021, 05:03:30 PM
Post by: Jim on March 13, 2021, 05:03:30 PM
Regarding ID, I was not asked for anything when I got my first dose at the UAlbany NY state-run clinic, but that was on its first day of operation and while it was running very efficiently, I think they hadn't quite worked out all the details. When I returned to bring my father for his first dose, and when we each went back for second doses, I believe we were each asked for ID. It seems eligibility was on the honor system, as I was never asked for the letter from my employer verifying my status as an in-person college instructor, making me eligible in New York's "1B" back in January before other groups were added.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: wxfree on March 13, 2021, 10:39:44 PM
Post by: wxfree on March 13, 2021, 10:39:44 PM
I want to be vaccinated as soon as I can, with whatever is available. My age, medical status, and employment don't give me any special priority, so I just have to wait for mass availability. Of course, I'm not in a high risk category, so I can wait. I'm glad my mother is vaccinated. Because of the risk profile, she should be before I am.
I want any vaccine that is approved. The Johnson and Johnson vaccine has a lower headline efficacy rating, but those ratings don't compare that way. The first two vaccines were tested earlier, when the virus spread was lower. The JNJ vaccine was tested when spread was more rapid, and it faced more infectious variants. It's entirely possible that it's more effective overall than the first two, but it looks worse because it had a harder fight in the trials. The most important thing is the 100% effectiveness all of the vaccines had in the trials at preventing hospitalization and death. That said, since I live in town, near many pharmacies and a state vaccination hub, I'd have no problem going back for a second dose. The single-dose vaccine may be better for people who would have a harder time returning for a second shot.
I want any vaccine that is approved. The Johnson and Johnson vaccine has a lower headline efficacy rating, but those ratings don't compare that way. The first two vaccines were tested earlier, when the virus spread was lower. The JNJ vaccine was tested when spread was more rapid, and it faced more infectious variants. It's entirely possible that it's more effective overall than the first two, but it looks worse because it had a harder fight in the trials. The most important thing is the 100% effectiveness all of the vaccines had in the trials at preventing hospitalization and death. That said, since I live in town, near many pharmacies and a state vaccination hub, I'd have no problem going back for a second dose. The single-dose vaccine may be better for people who would have a harder time returning for a second shot.
Title: Re: Wuhan flu vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 14, 2021, 01:20:09 AM
Post by: bugo on March 14, 2021, 01:20:09 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 07:53:59 AM
due to my muscle mass I am "obese"
The BMI is complete bullshit. According to it, many elite athletes are "obese", despite having very little body fat. You can't measure something with 3 or more variables with just 2 pieces of data. It's like trying to measure the volume of a box using only the height and width, omitting the depth of the object. The BMI is designed to make Americans feel bad about themselves. It is total nonsense.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 14, 2021, 03:07:52 AM
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 14, 2021, 03:07:52 AM
^ "Wuhan flu"
Uh...what?
Uh...what?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2021, 04:32:06 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2021, 04:32:06 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 14, 2021, 03:07:52 AM
^ "Wuhan flu"
Uh...what?
As opposed to pork or reviving a long dead thread from 2009?
Title: Re: Wuhan flu vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on March 14, 2021, 08:54:27 AM
Post by: SectorZ on March 14, 2021, 08:54:27 AM
Quote from: bugo on March 14, 2021, 01:20:09 AMQuote from: SectorZ on March 05, 2021, 07:53:59 AM
due to my muscle mass I am "obese"
The BMI is complete bullshit. According to it, many elite athletes are "obese", despite having very little body fat. You can't measure something with 3 or more variables with just 2 pieces of data. It's like trying to measure the volume of a box using only the height and width, omitting the depth of the object. The BMI is designed to make Americans feel bad about themselves. It is total nonsense.
It works for most of the population though. I'd bet at least 3/4 of those considered obese due to BMI are genuinely obese.
I have plenty of fat on me despite all my exercising. My most recent doc didn't seem to believe me until she ordered a blood draw and the results spoke for themselves. That's typical in this country though. My wife is a runner, and multiple times docs have been concerned about her resting heart rate being too low. It's not low, it's just peak physical fitness, because they're used to seeing sedentary people all day.
Like anything, it's a guideline. I've never gotten too bent out of shape over it despite being lumped into its category. I know what I am and that's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 14, 2021, 09:16:16 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 14, 2021, 09:16:16 AM
In NY, I think BMI was used not because it is actually a great measure of body fat or obesity, but because they simply wanted to broaden the requirements and get more people into the sites.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 14, 2021, 02:58:05 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 14, 2021, 02:58:05 PM
I suspect BMI is used because it's a simple and easy measurement (anyone can just plug in their weight and height into a BMI calculator online) that gives a definitive answer as to whether someone is eligible or not. Standardizing things with objective criteria is basically the government MO, after all. Given that the end goal is to vaccinate everyone, if a few extra people become eligible, that's probably considered fine as long as that extra isn't too large.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 14, 2021, 03:14:57 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on March 14, 2021, 03:14:57 PM
Seems like we may back off from the AstraZeneca vaccine since there has some been reports about patients getting blood clots. Maybe we don't need it here. We can just take Novavax.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tidecat on March 14, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Post by: tidecat on March 14, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2021, 10:24:14 PMI live in this podunk town near the Indiana border called Louisville. Louisville area, Frankfort, and Elizabethtown were all booked solid. Didn't see any offerings available in Lexington either.Quote from: tidecat on March 07, 2021, 01:20:09 AMQuote from: bandit957 on March 05, 2021, 05:55:55 AMI just booked one at Walmart in Winchester (about 80 miles from home for me). Probably best to check just after midnight for availability.Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:32:12 PM
Who has and who hasn't taken the covid shot, and who doesn't plan to take it at all?
I chose to make it three options for those who haven't taken it yet to register their choice for the one-dose or two-dose shot.
I'm in tier 1C in Kentucky because of high-risk medical conditions, but still I can't get an appointment. I hope I can get the one-dose vaccine, but I'll accept whatever is available.
Not sure where you live in the Bluegrass, but unless you're like me and live out in the sticks, you probably have to pass a lot of other places to drive that distance to get to Winchester.
Most of the Louisville sites were still prioritizing age 60+ when I booked mine, so it may have been different had I waited until tomorrow to book.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 14, 2021, 09:42:11 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 14, 2021, 09:42:11 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 14, 2021, 03:14:57 PMWe never approved it in the first place and it didn't seem like we were going to as we already had questions regarding their trial and how well it works. Last I heard, the EU was trying to buy our doses from us, at least before this.
Seems like we may back off from the AstraZeneca vaccine since there has some been reports about patients getting blood clots. Maybe we don't need it here. We can just take Novavax.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 15, 2021, 10:49:09 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 15, 2021, 10:49:09 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 13, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
My wife's arm is still sore, two days later–but only while doing certain motions. Taking her left arm out of a sweatshirt is brutal for her. But Advil is keeping her going. And still zero other side-effects.
I hadn't mentioned this before, but it isn't quite accurate to say my wife has zero other side-effects. The tip of her tongue has been tingling ever since she got the shot four days ago.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
Post by: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 14, 2021, 03:07:52 AM
^ "Wuhan flu"
Uh...what?
It's a joke from the second Borat movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EuyDMq3mYQ
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 16, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 16, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Finally gave up waiting for appointments to open up close to home and drove 2 hours to get my first dose today.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 01:10:09 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 01:10:09 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 16, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Finally gave up waiting for appointments to open up close to home and drove 2 hours to get my first dose today.
Do they let you do that? Isn't it county-by-county?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 16, 2021, 01:13:58 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 16, 2021, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 01:10:09 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on March 16, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Finally gave up waiting for appointments to open up close to home and drove 2 hours to get my first dose today.
Do they let you do that? Isn't it county-by-county?
I guess not. Yesterday I started searching for appointments from farther and farther away, and finally found one. This site had 15 open appointments for today as of 5pm yesterday, so clearly the people in that county aren't availing themselves of the opportunity. Everybody else who was there the same time of me was also from > 1 hour away.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 16, 2021, 01:15:10 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 16, 2021, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 01:10:09 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on March 16, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Finally gave up waiting for appointments to open up close to home and drove 2 hours to get my first dose today.
Do they let you do that? Isn't it county-by-county?
Not in a lot of places. You could drive out here and get one. There is no residency requirement. I live in Arapahoe County but I am getting my vaccine in about 30 minutes in Denver (City and) County.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 01:18:36 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 01:18:36 PM
My wife was fortunate. When she first attempted to schedule an appointment, there were no slots that worked for her, but she was busy at the time and put it off till later. When later came, there were still no slots, but then she got busy again and put it off till later. When she finally got some real free time, a secondary, temporary clinic had opened up in a local church, and she was able to get a slot for the very next evening.
Later, when she booked her second shot, it told her to go to the same place she got her first one at. Well, that location was just temporary, so going there again is impossible. The system didn't even give her location options anyway, so her next one is scheduled at the former downtown library.
Later, when she booked her second shot, it told her to go to the same place she got her first one at. Well, that location was just temporary, so going there again is impossible. The system didn't even give her location options anyway, so her next one is scheduled at the former downtown library.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 16, 2021, 02:30:39 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 16, 2021, 02:30:39 PM
Just got my first shot of the Moderna vaccine. When I checked in, they didn't even ask for an ID. In and out in 5 minutes. They did say to hang out for 15 minutes in case of adverse reactions, so I sat in my car for a bit. Next one comes 4/14.
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 16, 2021, 03:38:44 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 16, 2021, 03:38:44 PM
For the last two days, local medical providers have been alerting residents that our Walgreens has extra doses that have to be given by the end of the day or else they'll be discarded.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 16, 2021, 04:33:11 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 16, 2021, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 16, 2021, 03:38:44 PM
For the last two days, local medical providers have been alerting residents that our Walgreens has extra doses that have to be given by the end of the day or else they'll be discarded.
That's how one of my friends got her first shot. She just went to the mass vaccination site and asked if they had leftovers they were going to toss. They did, so they signed her up and got her a shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:48:12 PM
Post by: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:48:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 01:10:09 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on March 16, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Finally gave up waiting for appointments to open up close to home and drove 2 hours to get my first dose today.
Do they let you do that? Isn't it county-by-county?
Not in Oklahoma, at least. The nearest site to me that was available on the day I signed up was Claremore, which is in another county.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 16, 2021, 04:50:46 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 16, 2021, 04:50:46 PM
Minor update on side effects. Since I got the vaccine a couple hours ago, I've gotten a feeling I can only describe as a mild high (like weed). Not too noticeable, but just a very little bit out of it. Maybe it's just the Colorado version. :biggrin:
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:52:05 PM
Post by: bugo on March 16, 2021, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 14, 2021, 08:54:27 AMQuote from: bugo on March 14, 2021, 01:20:09 AM
The BMI is complete bullshit. According to it, many elite athletes are "obese", despite having very little body fat. You can't measure something with 3 or more variables with just 2 pieces of data. It's like trying to measure the volume of a box using only the height and width, omitting the depth of the object. The BMI is designed to make Americans feel bad about themselves. It is total nonsense.
It works for most of the population though. I'd bet at least 3/4 of those considered obese due to BMI are genuinely obese.
I have plenty of fat on me despite all my exercising. My most recent doc didn't seem to believe me until she ordered a blood draw and the results spoke for themselves. That's typical in this country though. My wife is a runner, and multiple times docs have been concerned about her resting heart rate being too low. It's not low, its just peak physical fitness, because they're used to seeing sedentary people all day.
Like anything, its a guideline. I've never gotten too bent out of shape over it despite being lumped into its category. I know what I am and that's good enough for me.
Not in my experience. A few years ago, I weighed about 260 pounds, and while I was definitely not "obese" by any rational yardstick. I'm down to 230 now, and I'm no longer in the "obese" category, but I don't look that much smaller than I did then. As I said, it was designed to cause self esteem issues among everybody who weighs more than the "acceptable" amount.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 05:06:35 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 05:06:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 16, 2021, 04:33:11 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 16, 2021, 03:38:44 PM
For the last two days, local medical providers have been alerting residents that our Walgreens has extra doses that have to be given by the end of the day or else they'll be discarded.
That's how one of my friends got her first shot. She just went to the mass vaccination site and asked if they had leftovers they were going to toss. They did, so they signed her up and got her a shot.
My mother-in-law wasn't even looking for one. She was at the grocery store and someone asked her if she wanted a shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on March 16, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Post by: Jim on March 16, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
In New York, I've known people to drive all over the state to get earlier appointments. Early on at least, the state clinics at Potsdam and Plattsburgh often had much sooner appointments than Albany. My brother first had one at the Javits Center in NYC, which would not have been convenient at all, but then got one just a day or two out in Utica. But New York's distribution has been very complicated. Anyone eligible can go to a state clinic anywhere. Counties have been directed to use their allocations for specific groups each week. Then there are some state and/or FEMA clinics that seem to be targeted to specific zip codes to try to get it into communities where there's either a high infection rate or low acceptance rate for the vaccine. The Yankee Stadium site was restricted to Bronx residents, but I don't know if it still is.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 16, 2021, 06:24:05 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 16, 2021, 06:24:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2021, 01:10:09 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on March 16, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Finally gave up waiting for appointments to open up close to home and drove 2 hours to get my first dose today.
Do they let you do that? Isn't it county-by-county?
I've heard twice in the past two weeks that if I were to drive out to one of the counties along I-81 it would be easy to get a vaccine if I just show proof of Virginia residency. I haven't bothered because I have my doubts about whether I'd have the time to drive back out there for the second dose when the time comes. Next month is likely to be busy work-wise. Taking time out to drive to a vaccination site in Fairfax County is minor. Driving 100 miles each way is a different issue.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 16, 2021, 06:50:16 PM
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 16, 2021, 06:50:16 PM
Quote from: Henry on March 12, 2021, 10:54:36 AMNope. No girlfriend, therefore no need for Viagra or any other "male performance enhancing pills."
Are you sure it's not Viagra?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 10:08:15 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 10:08:15 AM
Has anyone's home state/county/city amended its face mask and/or physical distancing order to exempt people who have been fully vaccinated?
Sedgwick County's most recent order was issued two days ago, when 196 citizens were already fully vaccinated and nearly 3000 had already received their first shot but not their second. My mother (retired lifetime nurse, current school teacher) is scheduled to get her second shot soon, and she is adamant that nobody is going to tell her to wear her face mask once she's fully vaccinated. And that got me thinking, there is bound to be an increasing number of resentful people being ordered by law to do something they consider to be completely pointless. And then that got me to wondering if there were any jurisdictions that have actually amended their orders along those lines. Are there?
Sedgwick County's most recent order was issued two days ago, when 196 citizens were already fully vaccinated and nearly 3000 had already received their first shot but not their second. My mother (retired lifetime nurse, current school teacher) is scheduled to get her second shot soon, and she is adamant that nobody is going to tell her to wear her face mask once she's fully vaccinated. And that got me thinking, there is bound to be an increasing number of resentful people being ordered by law to do something they consider to be completely pointless. And then that got me to wondering if there were any jurisdictions that have actually amended their orders along those lines. Are there?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 17, 2021, 10:44:03 AM
Post by: bandit957 on March 17, 2021, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 10:08:15 AM
Has anyone's home state/county/city amended its face mask and/or physical distancing order to exempt people who have been fully vaccinated?
Sedgwick County's most recent order was issued two days ago, when 196 citizens were already fully vaccinated and nearly 3000 had already received their first shot but not their second. My mother (retired lifetime nurse, current school teacher) is scheduled to get her second shot soon, and she is adamant that nobody is going to tell her to wear her face mask once she's fully vaccinated. And that got me thinking, there is bound to be an increasing number of resentful people being ordered by law to do something they consider to be completely pointless. And then that got me to wondering if there were any jurisdictions that have actually amended their orders along those lines. Are there?
I don't know of any places like this. People on other websites say the reason no city or state has done this is that they think people will just lie about being vaccinated so they don't have to follow the order. But no city or state ever admits that's the reason.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 10:54:21 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 10:54:21 AM
Be careful when running to get "surplus" vaccinations. In CT, if you do so, the State insists you must set up your second dose wherever you get the first dose. If other states have requirements like these, it can make things more complicated than if you just set up an appointment.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: GaryV on March 17, 2021, 10:54:26 AM
Post by: GaryV on March 17, 2021, 10:54:26 AM
The CDC said that while the vaccination protects you from getting sick from the virus, you could potentially still be a carrier. So if you are not wearing a mask, you could be spreading it and people who have not yet been vaccinated may get sick. It's something they don't know yet, but are learning about. Groups of fully vaccinated people can meet together without masks or social distancing. That means 2 weeks after your second dose of Pfizer or Moderna, or 2 weeks after the J&J single dose.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html
My expectation is that when a significant portion of the population has been vaccinated, restrictions will get lifted.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html
My expectation is that when a significant portion of the population has been vaccinated, restrictions will get lifted.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 10:56:02 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 10:56:02 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 17, 2021, 10:44:03 AMI think this is openly being admitted -- the vaccinated have to wear masks not only in the off-chance that you could still be a carrier, but mostly because you can't tell if an unmasked person has been vaccinated or not (well...papiere bitte, I suppose...).Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 10:08:15 AM
Has anyone's home state/county/city amended its face mask and/or physical distancing order to exempt people who have been fully vaccinated?
Sedgwick County's most recent order was issued two days ago, when 196 citizens were already fully vaccinated and nearly 3000 had already received their first shot but not their second. My mother (retired lifetime nurse, current school teacher) is scheduled to get her second shot soon, and she is adamant that nobody is going to tell her to wear her face mask once she's fully vaccinated. And that got me thinking, there is bound to be an increasing number of resentful people being ordered by law to do something they consider to be completely pointless. And then that got me to wondering if there were any jurisdictions that have actually amended their orders along those lines. Are there?
I don't know of any places like this. People on other websites say the reason no city or state has done this is that they think people will just lie about being vaccinated so they don't have to follow the order. But no city or state ever admits that's the reason.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 17, 2021, 11:07:36 AM
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 17, 2021, 11:07:36 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 10:56:02 AMQuote from: bandit957 on March 17, 2021, 10:44:03 AMI think this is openly being admitted -- the vaccinated have to wear masks not only in the off-chance that you could still be a carrier, but mostly because you can't tell if an unmasked person has been vaccinated or not (well...papiere bitte, I suppose...).Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 10:08:15 AM
Has anyone's home state/county/city amended its face mask and/or physical distancing order to exempt people who have been fully vaccinated?
Sedgwick County's most recent order was issued two days ago, when 196 citizens were already fully vaccinated and nearly 3000 had already received their first shot but not their second. My mother (retired lifetime nurse, current school teacher) is scheduled to get her second shot soon, and she is adamant that nobody is going to tell her to wear her face mask once she's fully vaccinated. And that got me thinking, there is bound to be an increasing number of resentful people being ordered by law to do something they consider to be completely pointless. And then that got me to wondering if there were any jurisdictions that have actually amended their orders along those lines. Are there?
I don't know of any places like this. People on other websites say the reason no city or state has done this is that they think people will just lie about being vaccinated so they don't have to follow the order. But no city or state ever admits that's the reason.
Stores can, and mostly do, require masks as well.
If they require shirts and shoes, then yes, they can require masks also.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 11:44:48 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 11:44:48 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 10:54:21 AM
Be careful when running to get "surplus" vaccinations. In CT, if you do so, the State insists you must set up your second dose wherever you get the first dose. If other states have requirements like these, it can make things more complicated than if you just set up an appointment.
When my wife set up her second appointment, the system told her to do it at the same location she got her first one from. Problem: it was a temporary location that's no longer open.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 17, 2021, 11:07:36 AM
Stores can, and mostly do, require masks as well.
If they require shirts and shoes, then yes, they can require masks also.
Obviously. And that's the first thought my wife and I have whenever we hear her say that. But my point is that an increasing number of people are going to feel the same way, and I'm not so sure businesses will want to fight that fight anymore if they don't have as strong a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 17, 2021, 11:55:49 AM
Post by: oscar on March 17, 2021, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: GaryV on March 17, 2021, 10:54:26 AM
The CDC said that while the vaccination protects you from getting sick from the virus, you could potentially still be a carrier.
Also, the vaccines don't provide airtight protection against contracting COVID-19. They just substantially improve your odds. But I plan to keep wearing a mask anyway, at least indoors when near other people, until we have herd immunity firmly established.
I'm between the first and second doses of a vaccine with a claimed efficacy rate of 95% (hope to get the second dose by the end of this month, then two more weeks before its protection kicks in). But I'll still want some protection against the remaining 5%. My mask would help. So would other people wearing their masks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 12:13:24 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 17, 2021, 11:55:49 AM
I'll still want some protection against the remaining 5%. My mask would help. So would other people wearing their masks.
Which is, again, of course true. But that's not necessarily big enough impetus for the local government to keep the requirements on the books. I mean, masks will help whatever sliver of risk is still present until the day you die, but that won't necessarily keep jurisdictions from lifting or amending their orders. Granted, I'm no longer following the news the way I did a year ago, but I'm surprised I haven't heard of fully vaccinated people being exempted from official COVID orders, because–even if there is still some residual risk of transmission–I would expect some county somewhere to decide it's not a big enough one. Especially considering how all-over-the-board counties were on the matter nine months ago.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 17, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 17, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 12:13:24 PM
I'm surprised I haven't heard of fully vaccinated people being exempted from official COVID orders
Exempting vaccinated people from enforced restrictions involves checking people for proof of vaccination, and so far nobody has been willing to go there.
The closest we've gotten is guidance that groups of vaccinated people can gather on private property without masks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 12:24:15 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 12:24:15 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 17, 2021, 12:20:32 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 12:13:24 PM
I'm surprised I haven't heard of fully vaccinated people being exempted from official COVID orders
Exempting vaccinated people from enforced restrictions involves checking people for proof of vaccination, and so far nobody has been willing to go there.
The closest we've gotten is guidance that groups of vaccinated people can gather on private property without masks.
I've seen guidance from the CDC regarding fully vaccinated people, but nothing from my local government. You're saying that your local government has offered additional guidance?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 17, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 17, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
I think that as vaccination progresses, there will be an increasingly disorderly rush to dump mask mandates without creating carve-outs for the vaccinated. In Sedgwick County, where Kphoger and I both live, the county commission just repealed the mask mandate for schools (meaning it is up to school boards to decide whether students are required to wear masks), and a motion to set April 9 as the sunset date for the mask mandate as a whole failed by just one vote.
We have been told that it will be safe to drop the mask mandate only when we reach herd immunity, which is conservatively estimated at 80% of the population vaccinated. Part of the motivation for dropping the mask mandate in schools was that when 100% of the teachers in the Renwick school district were offered vaccine (as essential workers), only 60% accepted. The reasoning was that if this is representative of vaccine hesitancy for the population as a whole, we're never going to achieve herd immunity, so why continue to bother with masks?
(Renwick is not a real place--the name is a portmanteau of Reno and Sedgwick, since the district has extent in both counties. It is also rural, which tends to imply a more conservative outlook.)
We have been told that it will be safe to drop the mask mandate only when we reach herd immunity, which is conservatively estimated at 80% of the population vaccinated. Part of the motivation for dropping the mask mandate in schools was that when 100% of the teachers in the Renwick school district were offered vaccine (as essential workers), only 60% accepted. The reasoning was that if this is representative of vaccine hesitancy for the population as a whole, we're never going to achieve herd immunity, so why continue to bother with masks?
(Renwick is not a real place--the name is a portmanteau of Reno and Sedgwick, since the district has extent in both counties. It is also rural, which tends to imply a more conservative outlook.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 01:07:22 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 01:07:22 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 17, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
I think that as vaccination progresses, there will be an increasingly disorderly rush to dump mask mandates without creating carve-outs for the vaccinated.
Well put, and I agree. It's just too complicated for a grocery store or other public facing business to figure out who has been vaccinated and who hasn't. Even now, most people that are considered high risk have had a chance to be vaccinated, so it seems likely that this will happen - but not in a particularly organized way - in the next few months.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 01:09:35 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 01:09:35 PM
I also think that, in the meantime, the teeth of the existing orders will start falling out.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 17, 2021, 01:21:05 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 17, 2021, 01:21:05 PM
Around here, masks in convenience stores are already rare indeed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 01:48:25 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 01:48:25 PM
Yeah, from an enforcement perspective, I don't see how carve-outs could work practically. But what you'll end up with is a strange situation in which all the employees of a given business have been fully vaccinated yet cannot legally have a meeting in the conference room because of physical distancing requirements.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 17, 2021, 02:32:10 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 17, 2021, 02:32:10 PM
I've read that Israel is using an app-based approach to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them mask-less into normally off-limits places like gyms and cinemas.
It's chiefly made possible by their centralized health care system. This system has been handling vaccinations, so they have been able to keep track of who has been vaccinated and who has not through a single system.
In the US, such a system is unlikely to ever materialize, so the best we can do is wait until we have herd immunity or same-day vaccination openings (which may signal a reduced interest in vaccinations and the end of mass vaccinations).
It's chiefly made possible by their centralized health care system. This system has been handling vaccinations, so they have been able to keep track of who has been vaccinated and who has not through a single system.
In the US, such a system is unlikely to ever materialize, so the best we can do is wait until we have herd immunity or same-day vaccination openings (which may signal a reduced interest in vaccinations and the end of mass vaccinations).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 17, 2021, 02:32:10 PM
I've read that Israel is using an app-based approach to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them mask-less into normally off-limits places like gyms and cinemas.
So what about people like me, who don't have a smartphone?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 17, 2021, 02:36:56 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 17, 2021, 02:36:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:34:59 PMQuote from: jakeroot on March 17, 2021, 02:32:10 PM
I've read that Israel is using an app-based approach to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them mask-less into normally off-limits places like gyms and cinemas.
So what about people like me, who don't have a smartphone?
They encourage them to join this century. :)
In reality, I'm sure you can access the app on a computer and print something out.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:40:29 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 17, 2021, 02:36:56 PM
They encourage them to join this century. :)
Oh, I used to have one. I divorced it a few months ago.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 17, 2021, 02:42:58 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 17, 2021, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:40:29 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 17, 2021, 02:36:56 PM
They encourage them to join this century. :)
Oh, I used to have one. I divorced it a few months ago.
Don't think I could do it. So handy for Android Auto in my car (Waze/GMaps/Spotify/Audibile).
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 17, 2021, 02:42:58 PM
Don't think I could do it.
That's why I did it.
If you can't quit something–well, that's when you know you need to quit.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 17, 2021, 02:49:45 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 17, 2021, 02:49:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:46:38 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 17, 2021, 02:42:58 PM
Don't think I could do it.
That's why I did it.
If you can't quit something–well, that's when you know you need to quit.
I guess I understand that, but I guess I liken it to walking. I could quit doing it, but I imagine a great many things become incredibly inconvenient.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 02:52:01 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 17, 2021, 02:32:10 PMDividing Israel's recent daily case count by population and comparing it to the U.S.' rate shows that Israel's rate is ten times the U.S.' currently -- and quite surprisingly.
I've read that Israel is using an app-based approach to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them mask-less into normally off-limits places like gyms and cinemas.
It's chiefly made possible by their centralized health care system. This system has been handling vaccinations, so they have been able to keep track of who has been vaccinated and who has not through a single system.
In the US, such a system is unlikely to ever materialize, so the best we can do is wait until we have herd immunity or same-day vaccination openings (which may signal a reduced interest in vaccinations and the end of mass vaccinations).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:52:36 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:52:36 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 17, 2021, 02:49:45 PM
I guess I understand that, but I guess I liken it to walking. I could quit doing it, but I imagine a great many things become incredibly inconvenient.
You're my age. Don't you remember the 90s? For the things I really need a smartphone for, I have a PC.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 02:54:14 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 02:54:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:52:36 PMCan't put the PC in your pocket.Quote from: jayhawkco on March 17, 2021, 02:49:45 PM
I guess I understand that, but I guess I liken it to walking. I could quit doing it, but I imagine a great many things become incredibly inconvenient.
You're my age. Don't you remember the 90s? For the things I really need a smartphone for, I have a PC.
I used to think the way you do. The convenience of a smartphone is life-changing.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
There are very, very few things I need the internet for but can't use a PC for–that is, while I'm out and about.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 02:55:51 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 02:55:51 PM
The best approach is to have one for the convenience, but then not spend your whole life on it. That's a challenging balance.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 17, 2021, 02:58:52 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 17, 2021, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
There are very, very few things I need the internet for but can't use a PC for–that is, while I'm out and about.
Especially living in a place with more traffic than you have, I honestly do find Google Maps/Waze indispensable. The other day I went to my part time job, started going the way I always go but then had a hunch to check GMaps and, sure enough, there was an accident ahead that would have made me sit for 25 more minutes in traffic.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 03:05:57 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 03:05:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 02:54:14 PM
The convenience of a smartphone is life-changing.
Quote from: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 02:55:51 PM
The best approach is to have one for the convenience, but then not spend your whole life on it. That's a challenging balance.
Yep. It's a balance I knew ahead of time I wouldn't be able to manage, and I resisted getting a smartphone in the beginning. Then, recently, I found myself addicted to YouTube and news articles, found myself ignoring my family in the evenings. I tried setting "rules" for myself, but I failed to keep them. So I got rid of the darned thing. My family time has improved, I'm no longer half-irritated by the news, I no longer feel the urge to pick up my phone every few minutes. It's great. That is what has been life-changing.
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 17, 2021, 02:58:52 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
There are very, very few things I need the internet for but can't use a PC for–that is, while I'm out and about.
Especially living in a place with more traffic than you have, I honestly do find Google Maps/Waze indispensable. The other day I went to my part time job, started going the way I always go but then had a hunch to check GMaps and, sure enough, there was an accident ahead that would have made me sit for 25 more minutes in traffic.
Sometimes I get stuck in traffic. When that happens, my route around the jam is generally the same as it's always been, so no big deal. But I really can't look up, on the fly, how far the jam extends. But still. Even if I get home 25 minutes late, as I said, I'm making up that time by actually paying attention to my wife and kids for 25 minutes (and more!) in the evening instead of staring at a little glowing rectangle.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 04:09:41 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 04:09:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 03:05:57 PM
Then, recently, I found myself addicted to YouTube and news articles, found myself ignoring my family in the evenings. I tried setting "rules" for myself, but I failed to keep them.
I have this problem too, but with the laptop, not the smartphone.
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 03:05:57 PM
Sometimes I get stuck in traffic. When that happens, my route around the jam is generally the same as it's always been, so no big deal. But I really can't look up, on the fly, how far the jam extends.
I tried once to figure out where the traffic jam ended, and had a fender bender because of it. So, I won't be doing that again as a driver.
But I do it all the time as a passenger. I can think of at least two instances - one south of Buffalo due to an accident, and one in rural Minnesota due to road construction - where I suggested a detour and saved a bunch of time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:18:38 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 04:09:41 PM
But I do it all the time as a passenger. I can think of at least two instances - one south of Buffalo due to an accident, and one in rural Minnesota due to road construction - where I suggested a detour and saved a bunch of time.
I've done that in Minnesota as well. Except that it was before smartphones. Just whipped out the road atlas and plotted a new course.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: index on March 17, 2021, 04:36:41 PM
Post by: index on March 17, 2021, 04:36:41 PM
I now have an appointment scheduled in Wilmington, NC on the 19th to get my jab. Three hour drive. It was either that or I waited until July, because all the appointments around here were booked all the way through June.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:41:47 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 15, 2021, 10:49:09 AMQuote from: kphoger on March 13, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
My wife's arm is still sore, two days later–but only while doing certain motions. Taking her left arm out of a sweatshirt is brutal for her. But Advil is keeping her going. And still zero other side-effects.
I hadn't mentioned this before, but it isn't quite accurate to say my wife has zero other side-effects. The tip of her tongue has been tingling ever since she got the shot four days ago.
Last night at bedtime, she had arm pain at the injection spot again–except that, this time, it wasn't typical muscle pain that gets worse as you tighten the muscle, but more of a "deep down on the inside" kind of pain. She had to get up and take Advil, because she couldn't lie on that side otherwise.
And yeah, her tongue still tingles.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 04:42:06 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:18:38 PMQuote from: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 04:09:41 PM
I can think of at least two instances ... one in rural Minnesota due to road construction - where I suggested a detour and saved a bunch of time.
I've done that in Minnesota as well. Except that it was before smartphones. Just whipped out the road atlas and plotted a new course.
We're veering off topic here, but anyways...
Now I'm curious if I would have been able to suggest the same route with a road atlas. I'll have to check later. The construction was south of Owatonna, and this (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.9532223,-93.261925/I-35,+Owatonna,+MN+55060/@44.0095591,-93.2677554,12.04z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-93.226018!2d43.9981207!3s0x87f6dcf2360b07f3:0xdc1f33d8d31d3311!3m4!1m2!1d-93.2522487!2d44.0579375!3s0x87f6e7fb19dd7607:0xad67d73ca66c36f!1m5!1m1!1s0x87f6e7e702e67aeb:0x776bf6d66daa4a0b!2m2!1d-93.2512422!2d44.0659378!3e0!5m1!1e1) is the route we took to get around it*. It was one of those annoying lane closures that backs traffic up for miles in the summer, and I know we saved a bunch of time because the vehicle we were traveling with stuck it out, and ended up arriving back in the Twin Cities about 15 minutes after us.
The nice thing about Google Maps that a road atlas can't offer is that you can tell approximately where the jam stops and starts. In this case, I could tell it was going to be slow going for at least several miles, which factored into the decision.
*The ramp from US 14 WB to I-35 NB was closed, hence the triple loop at that interchange.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:53:19 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:53:19 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 04:42:06 PM
Now I'm curious if I would have been able to suggest the same route with a road atlas. I'll have to check later. The construction was south of Owatonna, and this (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.9532223,-93.261925/I-35,+Owatonna,+MN+55060/@44.0095591,-93.2677554,12.04z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-93.226018!2d43.9981207!3s0x87f6dcf2360b07f3:0xdc1f33d8d31d3311!3m4!1m2!1d-93.2522487!2d44.0579375!3s0x87f6e7fb19dd7607:0xad67d73ca66c36f!1m5!1m1!1s0x87f6e7e702e67aeb:0x776bf6d66daa4a0b!2m2!1d-93.2512422!2d44.0659378!3e0!5m1!1e1) is the route we took to get around it*. It was one of those annoying lane closures that backs traffic up for miles in the summer, and I know we saved a bunch of time because the vehicle we were traveling with stuck it out, and ended up arriving back in the Twin Cities about 15 minutes after us.
The nice thing about Google Maps that a road atlas can't offer is that you can tell approximately where the jam stops and starts. In this case, I could tell it was going to be slow going for at least several miles, which factored into the decision.
*The ramp from US 14 WB to I-35 NB was closed, hence the triple loop at that interchange.
Oh yeah, I kind of figured you were talking about Owatonna. I remember that road construction. Blech!
In my case, it was I-494 traffic, while we were heading from Waverly back to Chicagoland. I did one of those triple-loop-ramp maneuvers at I-35W (because it was a split-second decision to go south there), shot over from Medford to near Rochester, and followed I-90 from there. One huge bypass of I-494/I-94.
Here is the approximate route (https://goo.gl/maps/DReN5exA9rrtDKdD8), although the exact combination of county/state routes escapes me. It was quite enjoyable, especially compared to the typical I-494/I-94 traffic. And that makes me wonder if I ever would have driven/roadgeeked those roads if we'd had smartphones back then, considering that we probably "wasted" several minutes after all was said and done.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 06:52:45 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 06:52:45 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 04:42:06 PM
Now I'm curious if I would have been able to suggest the same route with a road atlas. I'll have to check later. The construction was south of Owatonna, and this (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/43.9532223,-93.261925/I-35,+Owatonna,+MN+55060/@44.0095591,-93.2677554,12.04z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-93.226018!2d43.9981207!3s0x87f6dcf2360b07f3:0xdc1f33d8d31d3311!3m4!1m2!1d-93.2522487!2d44.0579375!3s0x87f6e7fb19dd7607:0xad67d73ca66c36f!1m5!1m1!1s0x87f6e7e702e67aeb:0x776bf6d66daa4a0b!2m2!1d-93.2512422!2d44.0659378!3e0!5m1!1e1) is the route we took to get around it ...
The answer to this would appear to be yes, although Google Maps certainly offers a bit more clarity and precision than this:
(https://imgur.com/GF5HfgE.jpg)
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:53:19 PM
In my case, it was I-494 traffic, while we were heading from Waverly back to Chicagoland. I did one of those triple-loop-ramp maneuvers at I-35W (because it was a split-second decision to go south there), shot over from Medford to near Rochester, and followed I-90 from there. One huge bypass of I-494/I-94.
That makes sense. US 52 is a good alternate too (in fact, I-90/US 52 vs. I-90/I-94 is almost a toss-up when heading to the southern suburbs). But if the traffic was at I-35W, US 52 wouldn't have been much help.
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 04:53:19 PM
Here is the approximate route (https://goo.gl/maps/DReN5exA9rrtDKdD8), although the exact combination of county/state routes escapes me. It was quite enjoyable, especially compared to the typical I-494/I-94 traffic. And that makes me wonder if I ever would have driven/roadgeeked those roads if we'd had smartphones back then, considering that we probably "wasted" several minutes after all was said and done.
+1 for the southeastern Minnesota countryside. MN 50 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6011333,-92.8639702,3a,37.5y,114.44h,84.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3esxUzQMnQvrPh2JEZZb5w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D3esxUzQMnQvrPh2JEZZb5w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D318.23706%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) is a personal favorite (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6012294,-92.9057427,3a,75y,93.81h,79.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKW8T7-PgXcP_992hAePg1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (there's so many great views along there that every one I find, I can't remember if it's the one I specifically wanted to commit to memory).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 18, 2021, 09:19:12 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 18, 2021, 09:19:12 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 06:52:45 PM
That makes sense. US 52 is a good alternate too (in fact, I-90/US 52 vs. I-90/I-94 is almost a toss-up when heading to the southern suburbs). But if the traffic was at I-35W, US 52 wouldn't have been much help.
Well, it unfolded like this:
1. Traffic jam
2. Split-second decision to bail and take I-35W south
3. Get out the atlas and plot a different route
So bailing happened before a new route was chosen.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 02:13:37 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 02:13:37 PM
-- Late to the party --
I don't think other options would be as secure, at least for the time being. I think the app provides some level of verification not achievable with a piece of paper.
Otherwise: having a smartphone clearly grants you some level of privilege. Like a car in a rural area: it costs money but it makes things easy.
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 02:34:59 PMQuote from: jakeroot on March 17, 2021, 02:32:10 PM
I've read that Israel is using an app-based approach to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them mask-less into normally off-limits places like gyms and cinemas.
So what about people like me, who don't have a smartphone?
I don't think other options would be as secure, at least for the time being. I think the app provides some level of verification not achievable with a piece of paper.
Otherwise: having a smartphone clearly grants you some level of privilege. Like a car in a rural area: it costs money but it makes things easy.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 09:23:10 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 09:23:10 PM
The idea of having a smartphone app for vaccination verification is lame as all hell. You mean to say a fancy Spirographed piece of paper is enough to prove I own a car, and a printed piece of plastic is enough to prove I can drive it, but we have to have a piece of software involved to prove vaccination?
Here, I'm going to quote someone smarter than me about the problems with that:
Tanenbaum doesn't even note the cost of setting up all this digital infrastructure, and how all of it will quickly become obsolete after the pandemic ends. Personally, I think the solution, if we have to have one, is to just have the Bureau of Engraving and Printing print a bunch of fancy paper certificates for the CDC, with all the bells and whistles a $100 bill has. If anyone forges them, charge them under whatever sort of forgery/counterfeiting statute makes the most sense.
Here, I'm going to quote someone smarter than me about the problems with that:
Quote from: Andrew S. Tanenbaum
Without the federal government leading the way, there will be chaos as there will be dozens of different incompatible standards and methods of proof. If each state, some cities, and some companies develop their own smartphone app, how are airport officials in Hawaii going to tell real ones from fake ones? A patchwork of local solutions will invite uncertainty and fraud.
Further, not everyone has a modern smartphone running the current version of the operating system. Some people don't have a smartphone at all and they tend to be poorer and less white than the population at large. They will not be happy to be told they can't take the bus to Grandma unless they buy a modern smartphone and put some app they don't understand on it. So right off the bat, any kind of digital solution will discriminate against people who already face many barriers.
Also, people with an older phone that can't run the app won't be happy. Telling the app developers to make sure the app will run on every smartphone sold in the past 15 years will get the response: (1) that is impossible, and (2) unless we restrict the app to very recent phones we can't guarantee the security of the system since the security features we need were introduced only in version x of the operating system a couple of years ago.
The next problem is how to get the "proof" into the app. Vaccinations are being given by a large number of different organizations, from pharmacies to public health clinics to universities to private business concerns to municipal and county officials. All of them run different software and all of them will have to be updated to allow them to work with the new app (if there is just one) or the 50 new apps (if every state makes its own). Getting this to work properly could take months or maybe even years.
Then there are privacy concerns. Ideally, someone who shows up for a vaccination gets the passport put on the phone, and then the data is deleted from the source. Then it can't be hacked at the source. But some people will forget to bring their phones or lose their phones and will want to get their vaccination passports later on their new phones. This means the vaccination organizations will have to maintain the data, with the risk of it being hacked and exposed. There are also legal issues here as there are tight laws that organizations have to obey when handling health-related data. These laws were not written with the intention of storing confidential data on poorly managed unsecured devices.
Tanenbaum doesn't even note the cost of setting up all this digital infrastructure, and how all of it will quickly become obsolete after the pandemic ends. Personally, I think the solution, if we have to have one, is to just have the Bureau of Engraving and Printing print a bunch of fancy paper certificates for the CDC, with all the bells and whistles a $100 bill has. If anyone forges them, charge them under whatever sort of forgery/counterfeiting statute makes the most sense.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 18, 2021, 09:44:23 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 18, 2021, 09:44:23 PM
There should not be any need for any sort of vaccine verification, be it digital or physical. This reeks of "show me your papers."
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on March 18, 2021, 09:56:16 PM
Post by: bm7 on March 18, 2021, 09:56:16 PM
Is it even possible currently to verify if someone has been vaccinated or not? Are the names and information of all those who have been vaccinated, no matter where in the country it was done, stored in a database somewhere?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 10:04:39 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 10:04:39 PM
Based on the procedures the nurses went through, I would be surprised if my vaccination wasn't recorded in a Oklahoma State Department of Health (and probably Pontotoc County Health Department) database. The problem is that if I travel to another state or country, how do they get access to the relevant OSDH record?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 18, 2021, 10:17:48 PM
Post by: oscar on March 18, 2021, 10:17:48 PM
When I got my first vaccine shot, I got a card showing when I got it, and when I'm due for the second shot. It's not wallet-size, and didn't fold gracefully when I tried to put it in my wallet, so it seems not to have been intended for that purpose. It also doesn't look terribly forgery- or tamper-resistant.
I'll try to get a replacement at the second shot, and put the new unfolded card inside my just-reissued passport, in case I need it for travel purposes. But I doubt it will be much help with border agents, if they demand proof of vaccination.
I'll try to get a replacement at the second shot, and put the new unfolded card inside my just-reissued passport, in case I need it for travel purposes. But I doubt it will be much help with border agents, if they demand proof of vaccination.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:35:51 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:35:51 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 09:23:10 PM
You mean to say a fancy Spirographed piece of paper is enough to prove I own a car, and a printed piece of plastic is enough to prove I can drive it, but we have to have a piece of software involved to prove vaccination?
Obviously not. Those are excellent examples of things forged all the time. Who knows when they'll both be replaced with something digital.
I would not be surprised if smart phones are eventually paid for by the government in some fashion. They are not getting less important with time. My internet is covered by my taxes here in Tacoma. I'm sure a crappy public cell network is just around the corner...
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 09:23:10 PM
Personally, I think the solution, if we have to have one, is to just have the Bureau of Engraving and Printing print a bunch of fancy paper certificates for the CDC, with all the bells and whistles a $100 bill has. If anyone forges them, charge them under whatever sort of forgery/counterfeiting statute makes the most sense.
I actually think this is a great idea.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 10:04:39 PM
The problem is that if I travel to another state or country, how do they get access to the relevant OSDH record?
Excellent argument for something resembling Israel's healthcare system, for sure.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 18, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 18, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:35:51 PMI don't understand the praise for Israel's system when their daily case per capita is around ten times the U.S.'Quote from: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 09:23:10 PM
You mean to say a fancy Spirographed piece of paper is enough to prove I own a car, and a printed piece of plastic is enough to prove I can drive it, but we have to have a piece of software involved to prove vaccination?
Obviously not. Those are excellent examples of things forged all the time. Who knows when they'll both be replaced with something digital.
I would not be surprised if smart phones are eventually paid for by the government in some fashion. They are not getting less important with time. My internet is covered by my taxes here in Tacoma. I'm sure a crappy public cell network is just around the corner...Quote from: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 09:23:10 PM
Personally, I think the solution, if we have to have one, is to just have the Bureau of Engraving and Printing print a bunch of fancy paper certificates for the CDC, with all the bells and whistles a $100 bill has. If anyone forges them, charge them under whatever sort of forgery/counterfeiting statute makes the most sense.
I actually think this is a great idea.Quote from: Scott5114 on March 18, 2021, 10:04:39 PM
The problem is that if I travel to another state or country, how do they get access to the relevant OSDH record?
Excellent argument for something resembling Israel's healthcare system, for sure.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 18, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
I don't understand the praise for Israel's system when their daily case per capita is around ten times the U.S.'
Clearly Israeli's suck at avoiding COVID-19. But at least something is in place for when they get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on March 18, 2021, 10:54:14 PM
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on March 18, 2021, 10:54:14 PM
taking shot #1 this monday.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: DandyDan on March 19, 2021, 05:11:09 AM
Post by: DandyDan on March 19, 2021, 05:11:09 AM
Currently scheduled for next Friday with the second shot to come in April.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Avalanchez71 on March 19, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
Post by: Avalanchez71 on March 19, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
The shot does not prevent one from getting Covid-19.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on March 19, 2021, 07:23:53 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on March 19, 2021, 07:23:53 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 19, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
The shot does not prevent one from getting Covid-19.
It greatly reduces the possibility, even though it's not perfect (no vaccine is).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 19, 2021, 08:25:28 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 19, 2021, 08:25:28 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on March 19, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
The shot does not prevent one from getting Covid-19.
It does prevent people from excessive pork and reviving dead threads from 2009. ;-)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 08:57:21 AM
Post by: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 08:57:21 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:43:43 PMEuropeans (Asians and even Canadians too, but mostly Europeans) spent six months laughing at us because we couldn't contain Covid. Now we're almost done with the pandemic and they're a ways behind. Most European countries have far more cases per capita than we do. It's all just anti-American propaganda.Quote from: Rothman on March 18, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
I don't understand the praise for Israel's system when their daily case per capita is around ten times the U.S.'
Clearly Israeli's suck at avoiding COVID-19. But at least something is in place for when they get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 19, 2021, 09:22:44 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 19, 2021, 09:22:44 AM
Quote from: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 08:57:21 AMOur death rate is still horrifyingly embarrassing.Quote from: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:43:43 PMEuropeans (Asians and even Canadians too, but mostly Europeans) spent six months laughing at us because we couldn't contain Covid. Now we're almost done with the pandemic and they're a ways behind. Most European countries have far more cases per capita than we do. It's all just anti-American propaganda.Quote from: Rothman on March 18, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
I don't understand the praise for Israel's system when their daily case per capita is around ten times the U.S.'
Clearly Israeli's suck at avoiding COVID-19. But at least something is in place for when they get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 19, 2021, 10:44:52 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 19, 2021, 10:44:52 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:35:51 PM
I would not be surprised if smart phones are eventually paid for by the government in some fashion. They are not getting less important with time. My internet is covered by my taxes here in Tacoma. I'm sure a crappy public cell network is just around the corner...
You get free internet service? Does tax money also pay for people's PC and modem, their landline phone service and handset?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 19, 2021, 10:46:52 AM
Post by: kphoger on March 19, 2021, 10:46:52 AM
A close friend just got his first (second?) shot, and he is in really bad shape, sick as a dog from it.
I'm now eligible to schedule mine. (I thought it would be some time before I was eligible, but I forgot that the industry I work in is considered 'essential business'.) I'm trying to be smart about what day of the week I schedule it for. If I end up getting sick from the vaccination, then I want to be able to stay home and not have that affect work or church responsibilities.
I'm now eligible to schedule mine. (I thought it would be some time before I was eligible, but I forgot that the industry I work in is considered 'essential business'.) I'm trying to be smart about what day of the week I schedule it for. If I end up getting sick from the vaccination, then I want to be able to stay home and not have that affect work or church responsibilities.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 11:29:10 AM
Post by: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 11:29:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2021, 09:22:44 AMYeah, that's because our obesity rate is through the roof.Quote from: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 08:57:21 AMOur death rate is still horrifyingly embarrassing.Quote from: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:43:43 PMEuropeans (Asians and even Canadians too, but mostly Europeans) spent six months laughing at us because we couldn't contain Covid. Now we're almost done with the pandemic and they're a ways behind. Most European countries have far more cases per capita than we do. It's all just anti-American propaganda.Quote from: Rothman on March 18, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
I don't understand the praise for Israel's system when their daily case per capita is around ten times the U.S.'
Clearly Israeli's suck at avoiding COVID-19. But at least something is in place for when they get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 19, 2021, 01:26:52 PM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 19, 2021, 01:26:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 19, 2021, 10:46:52 AM
A close friend just got his first (second?) shot, and he is in really bad shape, sick as a dog from it.
I'm now eligible to schedule mine. (I thought it would be some time before I was eligible, but I forgot that the industry I work in is considered 'essential business'.) I'm trying to be smart about what day of the week I schedule it for. If I end up getting sick from the vaccination, then I want to be able to stay home and not have that affect work or church responsibilities.
Around here, demand vs availability has been such that it seems the pattern is "take whatever appointment you can get, and then keep an eye out to see if you can get something better".
I became eligible this morning. Interestingly, when I got into VAMS, the only appointments available within the next month were all on Sundays.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 19, 2021, 01:57:42 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 19, 2021, 01:57:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 19, 2021, 10:44:52 AMQuote from: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:35:51 PM
I would not be surprised if smart phones are eventually paid for by the government in some fashion. They are not getting less important with time. My internet is covered by my taxes here in Tacoma. I'm sure a crappy public cell network is just around the corner...
You get free internet service? Does tax money also pay for people's PC and modem, their landline phone service and handset?
It's bring-your-own device. But not free: funded by a combination of taxes and utility bills. "Heavily subsidized" might be better.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: index on March 19, 2021, 06:42:40 PM
Post by: index on March 19, 2021, 06:42:40 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 11:29:10 AMWhich, well, that pretty much shifts the embarrassment to another source and another public health disaster...Perhaps the sugar industry loading products with sugar far beyond what's normal in other countries has finally caught up to us. All while they said fat was the devil in ad campaigns when it was really sugar.Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2021, 09:22:44 AMYeah, that's because our obesity rate is through the roof.Quote from: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 08:57:21 AMOur death rate is still horrifyingly embarrassing.Quote from: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:43:43 PMEuropeans (Asians and even Canadians too, but mostly Europeans) spent six months laughing at us because we couldn't contain Covid. Now we're almost done with the pandemic and they're a ways behind. Most European countries have far more cases per capita than we do. It's all just anti-American propaganda.Quote from: Rothman on March 18, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
I don't understand the praise for Israel's system when their daily case per capita is around ten times the U.S.'
Clearly Israeli's suck at avoiding COVID-19. But at least something is in place for when they get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 20, 2021, 12:18:58 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 20, 2021, 12:18:58 AM
Quote from: index on March 19, 2021, 06:42:40 PMAlthough obesity is a comorbidity, the fact of the matter is Americans also didn't do a very good job taking precautions in the first place, partially due to muddled leadership.Quote from: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 11:29:10 AMWhich, well, that pretty much shifts the embarrassment to another source and another public health disaster...Perhaps the sugar industry loading products with sugar far beyond what's normal in other countries has finally caught up to us. All while they said fat was the devil in ad campaigns when it was really sugar.Quote from: Rothman on March 19, 2021, 09:22:44 AMYeah, that's because our obesity rate is through the roof.Quote from: thspfc on March 19, 2021, 08:57:21 AMOur death rate is still horrifyingly embarrassing.Quote from: jakeroot on March 18, 2021, 10:43:43 PMEuropeans (Asians and even Canadians too, but mostly Europeans) spent six months laughing at us because we couldn't contain Covid. Now we're almost done with the pandemic and they're a ways behind. Most European countries have far more cases per capita than we do. It's all just anti-American propaganda.Quote from: Rothman on March 18, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
I don't understand the praise for Israel's system when their daily case per capita is around ten times the U.S.'
Clearly Israeli's suck at avoiding COVID-19. But at least something is in place for when they get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 20, 2021, 12:34:12 PM
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 20, 2021, 12:34:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 10:08:15 AMAs far as I can tell, no. Since you mentioned the masks, when I went to get my shot, I wore a face shield I bought at a nail salon at my local Wal-Mart, and some member of the National Guard told me that the people in one of the tents weren't going to let me in with just that. Luckily, I also carried my own extra mask, although that National Guard member offered me a new one.
Has anyone's home state/county/city amended its face mask and/or physical distancing order to exempt people who have been fully vaccinated?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 20, 2021, 07:08:44 PM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 20, 2021, 07:08:44 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 10:08:15 AM
Has anyone's home state/county/city amended its face mask and/or physical distancing order to exempt people who have been fully vaccinated?
Sedgwick County's most recent order was issued two days ago, when 196 citizens were already fully vaccinated and nearly 3000 had already received their first shot but not their second. My mother (retired lifetime nurse, current school teacher) is scheduled to get her second shot soon, and she is adamant that nobody is going to tell her to wear her face mask once she's fully vaccinated. And that got me thinking, there is bound to be an increasing number of resentful people being ordered by law to do something they consider to be completely pointless. And then that got me to wondering if there were any jurisdictions that have actually amended their orders along those lines. Are there?
I'm not aware of any changes to government mandates along those lines, but I do know of retirement communities that have amended their policies to (essentially): "wear masks in common spaces, but masks are not required in rooms where everyone is vaccinated".
AFAIK, there is no evidence that being vaccinated prevents you from being able to transmit the virus; the only documented benefit is that the rate of hospitalization and death drops to near zero after vaccination. So, even if you're vaccinated, there's still a need to wear a mask to try to keep your germs to yourself, unless you are around only people who are also vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 20, 2021, 10:44:01 PM
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 20, 2021, 10:44:01 PM
Vaccination does lower your chances of transmitting the virus. Because your body has created vaccine-induced antibodies to COVID, the virus is unable to replicate inside you and therefore there is a lower viral load (amount of pathogen particles) leaving your system when you exhale and are around others. But we do still need to wear masks and take other precautionary measures because vaccination is never foolproof and you could still be a spreader.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 10:53:53 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 10:53:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 10:08:15 AM
Has anyone's home state/county/city amended its face mask and/or physical distancing order to exempt people who have been fully vaccinated?
Norman's mask mandate was last considered by the city council at the end of February. Then, they acted to extend it to June 1, believing that by then they will be in a better place to judge whether continuing it is necessary or if it will simply be allowed to expire entirely.
The governor made a big hoopla about lifting Oklahoma's restrictions at about the same time Texas did, although everyone immediately pointed out that he'd never issued any real restrictions to begin with so there was nothing to lift–all restrictions and mandates were passed at the city level because the state had shown no interest in doing so.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 20, 2021, 10:56:13 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 20, 2021, 10:56:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 10:53:53 PM
Norman's mask mandate was last considered by the city council at the end of February. Then, they acted to extend it to June 1, believing that by then they will be in a better place to judge whether continuing it is necessary or if it will simply be allowed to expire entirely.
June 1??? I guess they've never heard of something called "vaccines."
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 11:07:20 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 11:07:20 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 20, 2021, 10:56:13 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 10:53:53 PM
Norman's mask mandate was last considered by the city council at the end of February. Then, they acted to extend it to June 1, believing that by then they will be in a better place to judge whether continuing it is necessary or if it will simply be allowed to expire entirely.
June 1??? I guess they've never heard of something called "vaccines."
At the time that they last deliberated the issue, vaccines weren't available for most Oklahomans. They still aren't for the general populace, only people in essential industries, though that list of industries is very large compared to most other states, and declaring you're part of one of those industries is apparently on the honor system. Additionally, it is rather difficult to get an appointment in Norman proper (or anywhere in the OKC metro for that matter)–I drove 62 miles one-way to get my first dose, two counties away. That's not an option for everyone.
The tribes have apparently reached the point where they've vaccinated enough of their populations and employees that they're giving them away to anyone who wants them, but again, there are no tribal health clinics in Cleveland County, so you have to drive to Purcell at the closest. Again, not an option for everyone.
June 1 makes sense as an expiration date as well because it is after the end of spring classes at the University of Oklahoma. To my knowledge, we haven't recorded anyone in city limits suffocating to death of having a mask on, so there's little reason to call for an early end to the mandate.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 20, 2021, 11:10:45 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 20, 2021, 11:10:45 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 11:07:20 PMQuote from: bandit957 on March 20, 2021, 10:56:13 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 10:53:53 PM
Norman's mask mandate was last considered by the city council at the end of February. Then, they acted to extend it to June 1, believing that by then they will be in a better place to judge whether continuing it is necessary or if it will simply be allowed to expire entirely.
June 1??? I guess they've never heard of something called "vaccines."
At the time that they last deliberated the issue, vaccines weren't available for most Oklahomans. They still aren't for the general populace, only people in essential industries, though that list of industries is very large compared to most other states, and declaring you're part of one of those industries is apparently on the honor system. Additionally, it is rather difficult to get an appointment in Norman proper (or anywhere in the OKC metro for that matter)–I drove 62 miles one-way to get my first dose, two counties away. That's not an option for everyone.
The tribes have apparently reached the point where they've vaccinated enough of their populations and employees that they're giving them away to anyone who wants them, but again, there are no tribal health clinics in Cleveland County, so you have to drive to Purcell at the closest. Again, not an option for everyone.
June 1 makes sense as an expiration date as well because it is after the end of spring classes at the University of Oklahoma. To my knowledge, we haven't recorded anyone in city limits suffocating to death of having a mask on, so there's little reason to call for an early end to the mandate.
If we're using university class schedules as a basis, then every state would look at June 1. That's not happening.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 21, 2021, 12:17:16 AM
Post by: vdeane on March 21, 2021, 12:17:16 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 20, 2021, 10:56:13 PMIt's not enough for vaccines to have been invented. Needles have to go into arms. This isn't a game of Plague Inc: Evolved. The general population won't even be eligible until May 1 - even assuming every single person was able to get vaccinated that day, they'd still need the second shot, and it takes two weeks for the vaccine to fully take effect. I'd say June 1 is a little optimistic.Quote from: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 10:53:53 PM
Norman's mask mandate was last considered by the city council at the end of February. Then, they acted to extend it to June 1, believing that by then they will be in a better place to judge whether continuing it is necessary or if it will simply be allowed to expire entirely.
June 1??? I guess they've never heard of something called "vaccines."
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 21, 2021, 01:37:25 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 21, 2021, 01:37:25 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 20, 2021, 11:10:45 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 11:07:20 PMQuote from: bandit957 on March 20, 2021, 10:56:13 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 20, 2021, 10:53:53 PM
Norman's mask mandate was last considered by the city council at the end of February. Then, they acted to extend it to June 1, believing that by then they will be in a better place to judge whether continuing it is necessary or if it will simply be allowed to expire entirely.
June 1??? I guess they've never heard of something called "vaccines."
At the time that they last deliberated the issue, vaccines weren't available for most Oklahomans. They still aren't for the general populace, only people in essential industries, though that list of industries is very large compared to most other states, and declaring you're part of one of those industries is apparently on the honor system. Additionally, it is rather difficult to get an appointment in Norman proper (or anywhere in the OKC metro for that matter)–I drove 62 miles one-way to get my first dose, two counties away. That's not an option for everyone.
The tribes have apparently reached the point where they've vaccinated enough of their populations and employees that they're giving them away to anyone who wants them, but again, there are no tribal health clinics in Cleveland County, so you have to drive to Purcell at the closest. Again, not an option for everyone.
June 1 makes sense as an expiration date as well because it is after the end of spring classes at the University of Oklahoma. To my knowledge, we haven't recorded anyone in city limits suffocating to death of having a mask on, so there's little reason to call for an early end to the mandate.
If we're using university class schedules as a basis, then every state would look at June 1. That's not happening.
This isn't a state mask mandate, it's a city one (in the city with the state's largest university). We never had any statewide mask mandate. I'm fine with the city government being cautious–wearing a mask doesn't hurt me any.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on March 21, 2021, 08:20:01 AM
Post by: SSOWorld on March 21, 2021, 08:20:01 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 18, 2021, 09:44:23 PMSo does showing your driver license to get alcohol, showing your passport to get on a plane, but you comply anyway.
There should not be any need for any sort of vaccine verification, be it digital or physical. This reeks of "show me your papers."
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 21, 2021, 11:59:30 AM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 21, 2021, 11:59:30 AM
Quote from: bm7 on March 18, 2021, 09:56:16 PM
Is it even possible currently to verify if someone has been vaccinated or not? Are the names and information of all those who have been vaccinated, no matter where in the country it was done, stored in a database somewhere?
These days, within the US at least, anything medical-related is stored in several databases.
I had my first Pfizer jab this morning. The check-in, vaccination, second-appointment, and check-out-of-observation stations at my site all had tablets. Literally as the needle went in my arm, I got a text message reminding me to make an appointment for the second dose, and another confirmation message once I was handed a card telling me to report back at the same time, 3 weeks from today.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 18, 2021, 09:44:23 PM
There should not be any need for any sort of vaccine verification, be it digital or physical. This reeks of "show me your papers."
There's been requirements to show proof of vaccination to register for school, or to travel to some locations for many years now. If people could be trusted to do the right things, there would be no need; but they can't, so there is.
I do expect that if there is a wave of "show proof of COVID vaccination" requirements, they will be relatively short-lived at least within industrialized countries, once populations have been sufficiently vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on March 21, 2021, 12:17:54 PM
Post by: Jim on March 21, 2021, 12:17:54 PM
As I understand it, vaccination requirements that apply to schools, some jobs, etc., cannot be extended to the covid vaccines while they're authorized for emergency use only. Once one or more are fully approved, assuming they're still needed given whatever prevalence the virus continues to have at that time, I expect they would become required for some purposes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 21, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 21, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Notwithstanding the existence of vaccination databases, I don't think we are going to be doing vaccine passports, even for a brief period. Prioritization means that the fatality rate from recent cases of covid will fall off a cliff long before the population as a whole achieves herd immunity, because the groups most likely to die from the disease are receiving their doses first. (Compare case fatality rates between the US military and the US population as a whole at the present very small vaccination percentage: the US has had 524,000 deaths out of about 29 million cases, which translates to a case fatality rate of 1.8%, while the military has had 120 deaths out of 150,000 cases, or 0.08%. This is a result of service members having an average age 10 years younger than the median age of the population as a whole and most of the comorbidities that elevate risk of death from covid also being disqualifying for military service. As vaccination progresses, the part of the US population at large that hasn't yet received shots will look more and more like the US military--young and healthy.)
With the apparent threat receding, it is going to be an uphill battle just to retain mask mandates until a herd immunity threshold is reached: in comparison, a vaccine passport based on secure documents is an even heavier lift.
The EU has been talking about vaccine passports, but I don't think they will get a scheme off the ground, even though conditions there are more favorable for it, with greater centralization of recordkeeping (national identity cards can function as a substrate), slower progress of vaccination, greater use of vaccines with lower headline efficacy numbers, more travel from countries such as Russia and China where the vaccines in use have not been approved in the West, and so on.
With the apparent threat receding, it is going to be an uphill battle just to retain mask mandates until a herd immunity threshold is reached: in comparison, a vaccine passport based on secure documents is an even heavier lift.
The EU has been talking about vaccine passports, but I don't think they will get a scheme off the ground, even though conditions there are more favorable for it, with greater centralization of recordkeeping (national identity cards can function as a substrate), slower progress of vaccination, greater use of vaccines with lower headline efficacy numbers, more travel from countries such as Russia and China where the vaccines in use have not been approved in the West, and so on.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on March 21, 2021, 05:41:34 PM
Post by: SectorZ on March 21, 2021, 05:41:34 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 21, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Notwithstanding the existence of vaccination databases, I don't think we are going to be doing vaccine passports, even for a brief period. Prioritization means that the fatality rate from recent cases of covid will fall off a cliff long before the population as a whole achieves herd immunity, because the groups most likely to die from the disease are receiving their doses first. (Compare case fatality rates between the US military and the US population as a whole at the present very small vaccination percentage: the US has had 524,000 deaths out of about 29 million cases, which translates to a case fatality rate of 1.8%, while the military has had 120 deaths out of 150,000 cases, or 0.08%. This is a result of service members having an average age 10 years younger than the median age of the population as a whole and most of the comorbidities that elevate risk of death from covid also being disqualifying for military service. As vaccination progresses, the part of the US population at large that hasn't yet received shots will look more and more like the US military--young and healthy.)
With the apparent threat receding, it is going to be an uphill battle just to retain mask mandates until a herd immunity threshold is reached: in comparison, a vaccine passport based on secure documents is an even heavier lift.
The EU has been talking about vaccine passports, but I don't think they will get a scheme off the ground, even though conditions there are more favorable for it, with greater centralization of recordkeeping (national identity cards can function as a substrate), slower progress of vaccination, greater use of vaccines with lower headline efficacy numbers, more travel from countries such as Russia and China where the vaccines in use have not been approved in the West, and so on.
By the time the bureaucracy of any vaccine passport system is hashed out, we're going to be well past herd immunity. It'll just be a moot point by then.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dkblake on March 21, 2021, 06:29:08 PM
Post by: dkblake on March 21, 2021, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 21, 2021, 05:41:34 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on March 21, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Notwithstanding the existence of vaccination databases, I don't think we are going to be doing vaccine passports, even for a brief period. Prioritization means that the fatality rate from recent cases of covid will fall off a cliff long before the population as a whole achieves herd immunity, because the groups most likely to die from the disease are receiving their doses first. (Compare case fatality rates between the US military and the US population as a whole at the present very small vaccination percentage: the US has had 524,000 deaths out of about 29 million cases, which translates to a case fatality rate of 1.8%, while the military has had 120 deaths out of 150,000 cases, or 0.08%. This is a result of service members having an average age 10 years younger than the median age of the population as a whole and most of the comorbidities that elevate risk of death from covid also being disqualifying for military service. As vaccination progresses, the part of the US population at large that hasn't yet received shots will look more and more like the US military--young and healthy.)
With the apparent threat receding, it is going to be an uphill battle just to retain mask mandates until a herd immunity threshold is reached: in comparison, a vaccine passport based on secure documents is an even heavier lift.
The EU has been talking about vaccine passports, but I don't think they will get a scheme off the ground, even though conditions there are more favorable for it, with greater centralization of recordkeeping (national identity cards can function as a substrate), slower progress of vaccination, greater use of vaccines with lower headline efficacy numbers, more travel from countries such as Russia and China where the vaccines in use have not been approved in the West, and so on.
By the time the bureaucracy of any vaccine passport system is hashed out, we're going to be well past herd immunity. It'll just be a moot point by then.
I was reading an interview about this in one of the local Vermont papers, and the idea was to start with carrots more than sticks. The dogmatic anti-vaxxers get the most airspace, sure, but there are a decent population of people who just don't know for various reasons, and soft diplomacy (e.g. reassuring them that the technology is safe, that their own doctor has gotten it/will get it, that family members or other people got it and are fine and the world keeps spinning) will probably go a long way toward convincing enough people to get it in order to achieve herd immunity.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 21, 2021, 08:52:50 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 21, 2021, 08:52:50 PM
NY is already working on an app to be used as a vaccine/testing passport to be used for things that require such. If people don't want to use the app, they'll have to download/print a document (which I think will have a QR code).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on March 21, 2021, 08:54:53 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on March 21, 2021, 08:54:53 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 21, 2021, 08:52:50 PM
NY is already working on an app to be used as a vaccine/testing passport to be used for things that require such. If people don't want to use the app, they'll have to download/print a document (which I think will have a QR code).
So if someone from New Jersey wants to do something in New York City (or anything else across the state line)?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 21, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 21, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: 1 on March 21, 2021, 08:54:53 PMQuote from: vdeane on March 21, 2021, 08:52:50 PM
NY is already working on an app to be used as a vaccine/testing passport to be used for things that require such. If people don't want to use the app, they'll have to download/print a document (which I think will have a QR code).
So if someone from New Jersey wants to do something in New York City (or anything else across the state line)?
Requiring a vaccination to travel across state lines probably won't survive a court challenge. They tried a travel ban in Kentucky and the federal courts shot it down.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 21, 2021, 11:12:56 PM
Post by: oscar on March 21, 2021, 11:12:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 21, 2021, 10:50:27 PMQuote from: 1 on March 21, 2021, 08:54:53 PMQuote from: vdeane on March 21, 2021, 08:52:50 PM
NY is already working on an app to be used as a vaccine/testing passport to be used for things that require such. If people don't want to use the app, they'll have to download/print a document (which I think will have a QR code).
So if someone from New Jersey wants to do something in New York City (or anything else across the state line)?
Requiring a vaccination to travel across state lines probably won't survive a court challenge. They tried a travel ban in Kentucky and the federal courts shot it down.
OTOH, New York and even Vermont are exempting at least some vaccinated visitors from other states from their usual quarantine requirements. (Make sure to read the fine print -- NY's new rules have a lot of it.) Somehow, the quarantine requirements have escaped court challenges. If the requirements are valid, exemptions based on vaccination status would probably be OK too.
Whether those states will be able to readily and reliably verify vaccination status, for visitors claiming to have been vaccinated in other states, is unclear at best.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 21, 2021, 11:20:12 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 21, 2021, 11:20:12 PM
I think the question is "if NY implements a vaccination credential of some kind, will there be reciprocity with an NJ credential that allows it to be used in NY, and what if NJ (or another state) doesn't bother to issue such credentials?"
Another question is what if someone from another country comes bearing a credential for a vaccine not approved by the US? Obviously, there are concerns about the Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines (since the countries promulgating those vaccines have not been transparent about how they got their effectiveness numbers), but how does one legally distinguish between those and things like the AstraZeneca vaccine (which is apparently effective, but has been held up in the US because it may cause a danger to those receiving it)? Have a tier that is "well, the FDA didn't approve it but we're gonna call it good anyway?" What would the criteria for that be?
This, I think, will be the ultimate answer. Particularly in this part of the country, so many businesses are keen to pretend the pandemic is over already, I think that if OK ends up issuing me some kind of vaccination credential, I would expect nobody to ever want to look at it. The state line between OK and adjoining states is so porous (road crossings about once a mile for the entire border with KS, for instance) that setting up a checkpoint between states would be impractical, and TX in particular is even more indifferent about the pandemic than OK is.
I always got the impression that the quarantine requirements in states that passed them were more or less done on the honor system. If I were to drive to New York right now and stayed at a private home for three days before returning to Oklahoma, how would the state even know I was there? I mean, sure, if someone narced on me to the state health department, I could potentially run into problems, but I wonder whether the state would even have the resources to follow up on such a report (we sure as hell wouldn't in OK; when I actually tested positive I never got so much as a contact-tracing call from OSDH).
Another question is what if someone from another country comes bearing a credential for a vaccine not approved by the US? Obviously, there are concerns about the Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines (since the countries promulgating those vaccines have not been transparent about how they got their effectiveness numbers), but how does one legally distinguish between those and things like the AstraZeneca vaccine (which is apparently effective, but has been held up in the US because it may cause a danger to those receiving it)? Have a tier that is "well, the FDA didn't approve it but we're gonna call it good anyway?" What would the criteria for that be?
Quote from: SectorZ on March 21, 2021, 05:41:34 PM
By the time the bureaucracy of any vaccine passport system is hashed out, we're going to be well past herd immunity. It'll just be a moot point by then.
This, I think, will be the ultimate answer. Particularly in this part of the country, so many businesses are keen to pretend the pandemic is over already, I think that if OK ends up issuing me some kind of vaccination credential, I would expect nobody to ever want to look at it. The state line between OK and adjoining states is so porous (road crossings about once a mile for the entire border with KS, for instance) that setting up a checkpoint between states would be impractical, and TX in particular is even more indifferent about the pandemic than OK is.
Quote from: oscar on March 21, 2021, 11:12:56 PM
OTOH, New York and even Vermont are exempting at least some vaccinated visitors from other states from their usual quarantine requirements. (Make sure to read the fine print -- NY's new rules have a lot of it.) Somehow, the quarantine requirements have escaped court challenges. If the requirements are valid, exemptions based on vaccination status would probably be OK too.
I always got the impression that the quarantine requirements in states that passed them were more or less done on the honor system. If I were to drive to New York right now and stayed at a private home for three days before returning to Oklahoma, how would the state even know I was there? I mean, sure, if someone narced on me to the state health department, I could potentially run into problems, but I wonder whether the state would even have the resources to follow up on such a report (we sure as hell wouldn't in OK; when I actually tested positive I never got so much as a contact-tracing call from OSDH).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 12:42:28 AM
Post by: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 12:42:28 AM
Man I don't look at the forum for a couple weeks and there's a new thread here already on page 11...
So, my wife already got shot 1 of Pfizer and will be going back for shot 2 next week. She had to provide ID when she showed up for her appointment but was not asked for any other documentation verifying her eligibility.
I am not yet eligible but this tentatively changes on April 5 when CT plans to remove all prerequisites and let anyone 16 and up book an appointment.
I have not yet decided whether I want to be online at midnight on April 5 and try to book an appointment ASAP, or whether I'd rather let the initial stampede pass and more casually book an appointment when it doesn't require frantically hitting refresh hoping to get through in order to do so. But either way, I do intend to get jabbed - and while given a choice I'd like J&J for the sake of being one and done, I'll take whatever is offered and not complain.
So, my wife already got shot 1 of Pfizer and will be going back for shot 2 next week. She had to provide ID when she showed up for her appointment but was not asked for any other documentation verifying her eligibility.
I am not yet eligible but this tentatively changes on April 5 when CT plans to remove all prerequisites and let anyone 16 and up book an appointment.
I have not yet decided whether I want to be online at midnight on April 5 and try to book an appointment ASAP, or whether I'd rather let the initial stampede pass and more casually book an appointment when it doesn't require frantically hitting refresh hoping to get through in order to do so. But either way, I do intend to get jabbed - and while given a choice I'd like J&J for the sake of being one and done, I'll take whatever is offered and not complain.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dlsterner on March 22, 2021, 01:03:29 AM
Post by: dlsterner on March 22, 2021, 01:03:29 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on March 05, 2021, 12:45:38 AM
Well, if I were just 2½ years older, I would be eligible right now. As it stands, I will easily be in the next phase (Phase 2) that Maryland opens up (hopefully soon), and I plan to get the vaccine as soon as practical.
Update - was able to reposition from Phase 2 to Phase 1C; will be getting the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine this coming Saturday and the second dose three weeks later.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 22, 2021, 08:34:02 AM
Post by: webny99 on March 22, 2021, 08:34:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 21, 2021, 11:20:12 PMQuote from: oscar on March 21, 2021, 11:12:56 PM
OTOH, New York and even Vermont are exempting at least some vaccinated visitors from other states from their usual quarantine requirements. (Make sure to read the fine print -- NY's new rules have a lot of it.) Somehow, the quarantine requirements have escaped court challenges. If the requirements are valid, exemptions based on vaccination status would probably be OK too.
I always got the impression that the quarantine requirements in states that passed them were more or less done on the honor system. If I were to drive to New York right now and stayed at a private home for three days before returning to Oklahoma, how would the state even know I was there? I mean, sure, if someone narced on me to the state health department, I could potentially run into problems, but I wonder whether the state would even have the resources to follow up on such a report (we sure as hell wouldn't in OK; when I actually tested positive I never got so much as a contact-tracing call from OSDH).
For surface travelers, it is more or less done on the honor system, although you might want to be careful driving around with license plates from another state, because you never know what unsuspecting passerby might decide to report you, especially if it's someone down the street that can see where you're staying.
Of course, the big caveat is that a lot of long-distance travel is done by air, and although some airports are more lax than others, you will generally have to pass a checkpoint before leaving the airport where you'll be asked what state you're arriving from, and if it's on the quarantine list, you'll have to fill out quarantine papers. Tracing is quite a bit more advanced here: I'm not sure if this is still ongoing now, but it has been that anyone that tested positive for COVID or had arrived from a state on the quarantine list would receive a call from the state every day for two weeks to make sure they were staying in quarantine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 22, 2021, 09:00:05 AM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 22, 2021, 09:00:05 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 12:42:28 AM
Man I don't look at the forum for a couple weeks and there's a new thread here already on page 11...
So, my wife already got shot 1 of Pfizer and will be going back for shot 2 next week. She had to provide ID when she showed up for her appointment but was not asked for any other documentation verifying her eligibility.
I am not yet eligible but this tentatively changes on April 5 when CT plans to remove all prerequisites and let anyone 16 and up book an appointment.
I have not yet decided whether I want to be online at midnight on April 5 and try to book an appointment ASAP, or whether I'd rather let the initial stampede pass and more casually book an appointment when it doesn't require frantically hitting refresh hoping to get through in order to do so. But either way, I do intend to get jabbed - and while given a choice I'd like J&J for the sake of being one and done, I'll take whatever is offered and not complain.
When availability opened for 45+ on Friday, I checked the sites I had bookmarked at midnight, and they mostly hadn't captured the change in eligibility requirements. The update went in sometime in the middle of the night.
VAMS did start taking email addresses the day before, and I got my appointment by jumping on their email notification when it came through in the 8am hour. They do have a mechanism to let you choose which vaccine you want (subject to appointment availability, of course). I did keep an eye out for J&J vaccine times after I made my initial appointment because I liked the idea of "one and done"....but keep in mind that the trade-off is that there is a longer wait-time after the J&J jab to achieve full efficacy, and the J&J vaccine has a lower reported effectiveness rate.
Those downsides aren't so "down" that a person should refuse J&J in favor of Pfizer or Moderna....but they do have me thinking it doesn't make much sense to deviate from a "first available, and then see if an earlier appointment can be found" strategy.
FWIW, my wife isn't yet eligible. We've been preparing for the rush of the next wave by making sure she has accounts with all the different iterations of MyCharts in the state, and getting in the habit of checking VAMS for a change in their pre-registration. (We're planning to visit family with health issues as soon as our vaccines have taken full effect...thus the emphasis on getting it done as soon as possible.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 22, 2021, 01:09:37 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 22, 2021, 01:09:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 21, 2021, 11:20:12 PMAnother question is what if someone from another country comes bearing a credential for a vaccine not approved by the US? Obviously, there are concerns about the Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines (since the countries promulgating those vaccines have not been transparent about how they got their effectiveness numbers), but how does one legally distinguish between those and things like the AstraZeneca vaccine (which is apparently effective, but has been held up in the US because it may cause a danger to those receiving it)? Have a tier that is "well, the FDA didn't approve it but we're gonna call it good anyway?" What would the criteria for that be?
It is conceptually possible to accept vaccines that are not currently approved in the US for purposes of avoiding quarantine on the basis of their being approved by a WHO-designated Stringent Regulatory Authority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stringent_regulatory_authorities). This would cover the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine since the MHRA in the UK is a SRA.
Countries with SRAs form a more restrictive club than countries where the tap water can be assumed to be safe to drink. Russia and New Zealand are in one and not the other, for example.
Quote from: vdeane on March 21, 2021, 08:52:50 PMNY is already working on an app to be used as a vaccine/testing passport to be used for things that require such. If people don't want to use the app, they'll have to download/print a document (which I think will have a QR code).
How is this qualitatively different from, say, taking a photo of one's CDC vaccine reminder card once it has been populated with dates and batch numbers for a full course of shots, and showing that with proof of identity such as a driver's license? How is the state addressing equal protection concerns that arise from New Yorkers receiving vaccines through channels (such as the VA, Native American tribes, etc.) that bypass the state vaccination database?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
One thing to keep in mind with NY's app is that it's not for travel per se (though they might use it for such if it gets rolled out before the quarantine order is due to end on April 1, and it never applied to adjacent states); it's for things like concerts and sporting events.
Also of note: all travelers are required to fill out the traveler health form regardless of whether their state is subject to the requirement and regardless of mode of transport (if not air, you're supposed to fill it out online after arrival, though I don't know how that's enforced).
NY just dropped the eligibility age to 50 starting tomorrow. It kinda boggles the mind that some states are already opening eligibility to the general public, but then, maybe they're more willing to force people to go through a stampede pass where you constantly reload to try to get through and come out with an appointment weeks or months in the future.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-pilot-program-testing-excelsior-pass-madison-square-garden-and
https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/governor.ny.gov/files/atoms/files/COVID-19_App.pdf
Also of note: all travelers are required to fill out the traveler health form regardless of whether their state is subject to the requirement and regardless of mode of transport (if not air, you're supposed to fill it out online after arrival, though I don't know how that's enforced).
NY just dropped the eligibility age to 50 starting tomorrow. It kinda boggles the mind that some states are already opening eligibility to the general public, but then, maybe they're more willing to force people to go through a stampede pass where you constantly reload to try to get through and come out with an appointment weeks or months in the future.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 21, 2021, 11:20:12 PMMy understanding is that the reason we didn't approve AstraZeneca is because there were questions regarding its trail that made us question if it was effective, not because of the blood clots. Although Cuomo made it sound like we're going to approve it, so maybe they fixed that. Regarding the others, my understanding is that this is one reason why the EU is developing a system - so they can exclude them.
Another question is what if someone from another country comes bearing a credential for a vaccine not approved by the US? Obviously, there are concerns about the Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines (since the countries promulgating those vaccines have not been transparent about how they got their effectiveness numbers), but how does one legally distinguish between those and things like the AstraZeneca vaccine (which is apparently effective, but has been held up in the US because it may cause a danger to those receiving it)? Have a tier that is "well, the FDA didn't approve it but we're gonna call it good anyway?" What would the criteria for that be?
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 22, 2021, 01:09:37 PMThe system doesn't show those at all. Just a QR code that can verify eligibility. My understanding is that it's a supplement, not a replacement, for existing processes to streamline things.
How is this qualitatively different from, say, taking a photo of one's CDC vaccine reminder card once it has been populated with dates and batch numbers for a full course of shots, and showing that with proof of identity such as a driver's license? How is the state addressing equal protection concerns that arise from New Yorkers receiving vaccines through channels (such as the VA, Native American tribes, etc.) that bypass the state vaccination database?
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-pilot-program-testing-excelsior-pass-madison-square-garden-and
https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/governor.ny.gov/files/atoms/files/COVID-19_App.pdf
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 22, 2021, 03:46:21 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 22, 2021, 03:46:21 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
One thing to keep in mind with NY's app is that it's not for travel per se (though they might use it for such if it gets rolled out before the quarantine order is due to end on April 1, and it never applied to adjacent states); it's for things like concerts and sporting events.
Again, though, that raises the question of equal protection–suppose a fully vaccinated OK resident were to attend a concert in NY. Could they use an OK vaccine credential? What if OK offers no vaccine credential, or the patient was vaccinated by a tribal health authority?
Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 02:26:43 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on March 21, 2021, 11:20:12 PMMy understanding is that the reason we didn't approve AstraZeneca is because there were questions regarding its trail that made us question if it was effective, not because of the blood clots. Although Cuomo made it sound like we're going to approve it, so maybe they fixed that. Regarding the others, my understanding is that this is one reason why the EU is developing a system - so they can exclude them.
Another question is what if someone from another country comes bearing a credential for a vaccine not approved by the US? Obviously, there are concerns about the Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines (since the countries promulgating those vaccines have not been transparent about how they got their effectiveness numbers), but how does one legally distinguish between those and things like the AstraZeneca vaccine (which is apparently effective, but has been held up in the US because it may cause a danger to those receiving it)? Have a tier that is "well, the FDA didn't approve it but we're gonna call it good anyway?" What would the criteria for that be?
WaPo has an article today stating that a US trial showed the AstraZeneca vaccine to be 79% effective, and the trial "found no suggestion that the vaccine carried an increased risk of clotting," so it's possible that they could get emergency authorization if they apply for it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 22, 2021, 04:11:41 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 22, 2021, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 02:26:43 PMThe system doesn't show those at all. Just a QR code that can verify eligibility. My understanding is that it's a supplement, not a replacement, for existing processes to streamline things.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-pilot-program-testing-excelsior-pass-madison-square-garden-and
https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/governor.ny.gov/files/atoms/files/COVID-19_App.pdf
Thanks for the links. The press release is unclear on how the underlying Health Pass solution verifies that the app user has in fact received the vaccination or negative test result that he or she claims to have in hand. Does this rely on self-certification?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 08:37:18 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 08:37:18 PM
I'm amazed that there are states out there not doing what NY is doing: Automatically setting up your second appointment after you complete the first -- exactly three weeks from when you get your first dose.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 08:56:11 PM
Post by: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 08:56:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
Also of note: all travelers are required to fill out the traveler health form regardless of whether their state is subject to the requirement and regardless of mode of transport (if not air, you're supposed to fill it out online after arrival, though I don't know how that's enforced).
This feeds back into what was stated above where what's technically legally required may be far more broad than what can feasibly be enforced, which in turn may also be more broad than what actually is enforced.
I can state through empirical experience that New York sometimes has the national guard at LGA checking to make sure everyone leaving the gate area has filled out a form. But only sometimes. And of course, all this does is check that someone has filled out the form, it does nothing to ensure that people actually follow up on the required actions after they leave the airport. Meanwhile Cuomo himself has straight up admitted it's basically impossible for the state to enforce anything on people who arrive by car.
That said, Warren and Essex counties specifically have actually been enforcing the rules real hard: not letting people check into hotels without the form filled out, and they've even had random checkins on residents to ensure they are quarantining as required. NYC was doing this for hotels but not for residents. The rest of the state never did much of anything as far as I can tell.
Over here in CT, we handed out about a dozen fines for breaking the rules at the end of last summer just to make a public example and try to scare people. But, all but one of the fines were only for failing to fill out the form. One person got a second fine because one of his coworkers narced on him for loudly bragging about how he had traveled and was refusing to quarantine.
Otherwise... the only place there has ever really been anything resembling enforcement is at doctor's offices. Go to the doctor and you will be asked if you've traveled in the last two weeks. Answer yes and they will require you provide proof of having received a negative test.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 22, 2021, 09:06:44 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 22, 2021, 09:06:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 08:37:18 PM
I'm amazed that there are states out there not doing what NY is doing: Automatically setting up your second appointment after you complete the first -- exactly three weeks from when you get your first dose.
In Oklahoma, I've heard that some people are being automatically scheduled for their second dose. I was not. Of course, it may be better in my case that I wasn't–I only went to a large vaccination site in a rural county because all of the sites nearer were booked solid, so I may be able to get my 2nd dose closer to home. Additionally, my wife now has a job she didn't have at the time of our vaccination, so we are now going to have to schedule at least her 2nd dose around her work schedule.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2021, 09:32:14 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2021, 09:32:14 PM
I got my first dose Friday; go for my 2nd dose 3 weeks from then.
In NJ, while they haven't opened it up to everyone, the age groups are 65+, and 16-64 with 'certain medical conditions', one of which is if you have a BMI of 25 or above. Which means, just about everyone is eligible.
I went to one of the Megasites, which was extremely well run. I had taken my mom there twice, so I knew what to expect when I went. Before you get in the door, they ask you: Do you have an appointment, and are you available on such-and-such date for your 2nd shot. That was the most often asked question...they asked it 6 times total. And they were very willing to assist you if you didn't have their app/website to schedule it yourself. Everyone was extremely friendly. A fair amount of walking was done inside what was a former Lord & Taylor, but the only line longer than 1 or 2 people was the first one, which was about a 5 - 10 minute wait.
It depends on where you go in NJ. As mentioned, the place I went they checked with you multiple times that you scheduled your 2nd appointment. But from what I read, some CVSs and Rite-Aids force you to call or go online to schedule it yourself, and don't give you any assistance in the store.
In NJ, while they haven't opened it up to everyone, the age groups are 65+, and 16-64 with 'certain medical conditions', one of which is if you have a BMI of 25 or above. Which means, just about everyone is eligible.
I went to one of the Megasites, which was extremely well run. I had taken my mom there twice, so I knew what to expect when I went. Before you get in the door, they ask you: Do you have an appointment, and are you available on such-and-such date for your 2nd shot. That was the most often asked question...they asked it 6 times total. And they were very willing to assist you if you didn't have their app/website to schedule it yourself. Everyone was extremely friendly. A fair amount of walking was done inside what was a former Lord & Taylor, but the only line longer than 1 or 2 people was the first one, which was about a 5 - 10 minute wait.
Quote from: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 08:37:18 PM
I'm amazed that there are states out there not doing what NY is doing: Automatically setting up your second appointment after you complete the first -- exactly three weeks from when you get your first dose.
It depends on where you go in NJ. As mentioned, the place I went they checked with you multiple times that you scheduled your 2nd appointment. But from what I read, some CVSs and Rite-Aids force you to call or go online to schedule it yourself, and don't give you any assistance in the store.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 08:56:11 PMWasn't NYC setting up random checkpoints at some point?Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
Also of note: all travelers are required to fill out the traveler health form regardless of whether their state is subject to the requirement and regardless of mode of transport (if not air, you're supposed to fill it out online after arrival, though I don't know how that's enforced).
This feeds back into what was stated above where what's technically legally required may be far more broad than what can feasibly be enforced, which in turn may also be more broad than what actually is enforced.
I can state through empirical experience that New York sometimes has the national guard at LGA checking to make sure everyone leaving the gate area has filled out a form. But only sometimes. And of course, all this does is check that someone has filled out the form, it does nothing to ensure that people actually follow up on the required actions after they leave the airport. Meanwhile Cuomo himself has straight up admitted it's basically impossible for the state to enforce anything on people who arrive by car.
That said, Warren and Essex counties specifically have actually been enforcing the rules real hard: not letting people check into hotels without the form filled out, and they've even had random checkins on residents to ensure they are quarantining as required. NYC was doing this for hotels but not for residents. The rest of the state never did much of anything as far as I can tell.
Over here in CT, we handed out about a dozen fines for breaking the rules at the end of last summer just to make a public example and try to scare people. But, all but one of the fines were only for failing to fill out the form. One person got a second fine because one of his coworkers narced on him for loudly bragging about how he had traveled and was refusing to quarantine.
Otherwise... the only place there has ever really been anything resembling enforcement is at doctor's offices. Go to the doctor and you will be asked if you've traveled in the last two weeks. Answer yes and they will require you provide proof of having received a negative test.
Even doctors vary by quite a bit. My eye doctor has only a simple temperature check. That's it. Supercuts is more restrictive. My retina specialist, on the other hand, won't see you if you've been anywhere outside of the area any time even remotely soon. This was true even for travel to rural podunk PA exactly two weeks before during the month of July, back when cases were really low (and lower there than here), and during which I only got out of the car for a lunch/gas/bathroom stop at a Sheetz. Rather than applying nuance they just had a blanket ban. I found that out the hard way. My other doctors are in between.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 22, 2021, 09:06:44 PMOn the other hand, you run the risk of not being able to schedule the appointment on time. I don't think we have hard numbers for our approved vaccines, but the Chinese one is known to basically be worthless if the second dose is administered more than 2-3 weeks out.Quote from: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 08:37:18 PM
I'm amazed that there are states out there not doing what NY is doing: Automatically setting up your second appointment after you complete the first -- exactly three weeks from when you get your first dose.
In Oklahoma, I've heard that some people are being automatically scheduled for their second dose. I was not. Of course, it may be better in my case that I wasn't–I only went to a large vaccination site in a rural county because all of the sites nearer were booked solid, so I may be able to get my 2nd dose closer to home. Additionally, my wife now has a job she didn't have at the time of our vaccination, so we are now going to have to schedule at least her 2nd dose around her work schedule.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 11:09:30 PM
Post by: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 11:09:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
Wasn't NYC setting up random checkpoints at some point?
Only to ensure that people had filled out the form. No further followup.
QuoteEven doctors vary by quite a bit.
Okay so it sounds like there is a lot more variation in NY since different places are sorta setting their own policy. In CT, doctors' offices have guidance from the state on how to handle this so it's more consistent.
Which, that fits in well with the broader trend that CT has been far more organized about all this than NY has.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 11:12:54 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 11:12:54 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 22, 2021, 11:09:30 PMMy daughter has been involved in contact tracing and vaccination appointments. CT has been a disaster compared to NY on the vaccination front. They have literally run out of slots for appointments and do not automatically schedule the second appointment, causing horrendous problems -- especially with the requirement that your second appointment must be at the same location as the first.Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
Wasn't NYC setting up random checkpoints at some point?
Only to ensure that people had filled out the form. No further followup.QuoteEven doctors vary by quite a bit.
Okay so it sounds like there is a lot more variation in NY since different places are sorta setting their own policy. In CT, doctors' offices have guidance from the state on how to handle this so it's more consistent.
Which, that fits in well with the broader trend that CT has been far more organized about all this than NY has.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 22, 2021, 11:26:27 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 22, 2021, 11:26:27 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
Even doctors vary by quite a bit. My eye doctor has only a simple temperature check. That's it. Supercuts is more restrictive.
The temperature checks are such theater it's kind of silly, especially since not everyone who catches it presents a fever. At the casino my wife worked at, security does a temperature check for anyone entering the building, employees and customers. One time she went in and got a reading of 91° (clearly a bad read). Didn't matter, it was under 100°, so she was waved through. Hypothermia is some other department's problem.
I went to Supercuts here in Norman and they didn't do any sort of check, other than presumably enforcing the city mask mandate (although nobody challenged it when I was there).
Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
My retina specialist, on the other hand, won't see you if you've been anywhere outside of the area any time even remotely soon. This was true even for travel to rural podunk PA exactly two weeks before during the month of July, back when cases were really low (and lower there than here), and during which I only got out of the car for a lunch/gas/bathroom stop at a Sheetz. Rather than applying nuance they just had a blanket ban. I found that out the hard way. My other doctors are in between.
That sounds like they are practically begging people to lie to them about whether they've been out of state...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on March 22, 2021, 11:59:18 PM
Post by: bm7 on March 22, 2021, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
My retina specialist, on the other hand, won't see you if you've been anywhere outside of the area any time even remotely soon.
This is one thing I don't understand, many people consider travel of any kind to be dangerous. Merely traveling does not make you any more likely to get it, and often times people are traveling to places with less people infected than where they live, which means they're probably actually less likely to get sick. For a while, my work said that if any of us travel outside the state, we should tell them and then not come in to work for a week afterwards, as if somehow the act of crossing a state border makes you more likely to be sick.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 23, 2021, 01:05:11 AM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 23, 2021, 01:05:11 AM
Quote from: bm7 on March 22, 2021, 11:59:18 PMQuote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
My retina specialist, on the other hand, won't see you if you've been anywhere outside of the area any time even remotely soon.
This is one thing I don't understand, many people consider travel of any kind to be dangerous. Merely traveling does not make you any more likely to get it, and often times people are traveling to places with less people infected than where they live, which means they're probably actually less likely to get sick. For a while, my work said that if any of us travel outside the state, we should tell them and then not come in to work for a week afterwards, as if somehow the act of crossing a state border makes you more likely to be sick.
The operating assumption seems to be that if you're leaving your state, you're doing it for some nefarious purpose like partaking in activities your state doesn't allow but more lax states still permit or are less restrictive about. The images of what's happening in Miami this week where there have been clashes between police and visitors and the city basically being shut down after nightfall feed into this, and the spring break images of last year where you had people throwing tantrums and stating "who gives a shit, I wanna party".
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 23, 2021, 01:18:54 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 23, 2021, 01:18:54 AM
Meanwhile, in Oklahoma, since there's no statewide mask mandate, you're probably more likely to catch it visiting the next city over that has no mandate of their own than if you were to travel to, say, Colorado, or any other adjoining state that has a mandate.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Post by: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on March 23, 2021, 06:53:41 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on March 23, 2021, 06:53:41 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Pretty much everyone wears a mask indoors here, including southern New Hampshire.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AM
Post by: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SD Mapman on March 23, 2021, 07:12:56 AM
Post by: SD Mapman on March 23, 2021, 07:12:56 AM
Quote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMMight be an Eastern thing, what mandates there are out here are basically ignored outside of purple/blue towns. In the red rural parts of Colorado (since that state was brought up), nobody cares what Polis has to say, and there's an active movement to remove him from office over the mandates (not that it'll go anywhere even if it does get on the ballot).Quote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 23, 2021, 07:29:33 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 23, 2021, 07:29:33 AM
Quote from: bm7 on March 22, 2021, 11:59:18 PMIt's also about you bringing the virus from your state to wherever you're going.Quote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
My retina specialist, on the other hand, won't see you if you've been anywhere outside of the area any time even remotely soon.
This is one thing I don't understand, many people consider travel of any kind to be dangerous. Merely traveling does not make you any more likely to get it, and often times people are traveling to places with less people infected than where they live, which means they're probably actually less likely to get sick. For a while, my work said that if any of us travel outside the state, we should tell them and then not come in to work for a week afterwards, as if somehow the act of crossing a state border makes you more likely to be sick.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 23, 2021, 01:31:32 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 23, 2021, 01:31:32 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on March 23, 2021, 07:12:56 AMQuote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMMight be an Eastern thing, what mandates there are out here are basically ignored outside of purple/blue towns. In the red rural parts of Colorado (since that state was brought up), nobody cares what Polis has to say, and there's an active movement to remove him from office over the mandates (not that it'll go anywhere even if it does get on the ballot).Quote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
It's not just the eastern part of the state. Down the street from my house, someone set up a 'Recall Polis' station on the side of the road in front of a Big Lots. Not sure what that's supposed to accomplish. That said, it's a real shocker than the eastern counties were the ones with the highest per capita infection and death rate.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 23, 2021, 01:45:40 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 23, 2021, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 01:31:32 PMIt's not just the eastern part of the state. Down the street from my house, someone set up a 'Recall Polis' station on the side of the road in front of a Big Lots. Not sure what that's supposed to accomplish. That said, it's a real shocker than the eastern counties were the ones with the highest per capita infection and death rate.
There is a fair amount of continuity in terms of climate, culture, and topography with western Kansas, where some counties (e.g., Gove) have had close to 1% of their population die of covid.
In other news: I now have an appointment for my first shot. I'm getting Moderna at 12.45 PM this Saturday, March 27, at the Hunter Health Clinic, which is accepting all comers age
Edit: Had to amend minimum age since, unlike Pfizer, Moderna is not approved for the 16-18 age group.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMQuote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 23, 2021, 02:17:00 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 23, 2021, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PMQuote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMQuote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
The articles I read basically said they don't stop nearly as many potential particles, hence why they're easier to breathe through. If the air gets through more easily, so does everything else.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 02:19:50 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 02:19:50 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 02:17:00 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PMQuote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMQuote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
The articles I read basically said they don't stop nearly as many potential particles, hence why they're easier to breathe through. If the air gets through more easily, so does everything else.
Chris
They kind of make people look like terrorists or car jackers too. I'm kind of surprised someone hasn't come up with some of 80s ninja style looking mask.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 23, 2021, 02:21:31 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 23, 2021, 02:21:31 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 02:17:00 PMNot only that, I've read that they can split particles and make things even worse than if you didn't wear anything at all. I'm not sure why they're still legal for the purposes of complying with a mask mandate.Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PMQuote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMQuote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
The articles I read basically said they don't stop nearly as many potential particles, hence why they're easier to breathe through. If the air gets through more easily, so does everything else.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 23, 2021, 02:21:41 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 23, 2021, 02:21:41 PM
I have a friend who works in HVAC. They all used to wear neck gaiters, but recent data showed it may not be as effective. They all wear masks now instead.
I have noticed a rather distinct urban/rural divide with the neck gaiters. I live in the city, and gaiters are exceptionally uncommon. When I tread into the suburbs and rural areas, I see them a lot more.
I heard gaiters were more comfortable, but I've found the adjustable masks to be quite comfortable, personally. I have a large head so I struggled a lot early on.
I have noticed a rather distinct urban/rural divide with the neck gaiters. I live in the city, and gaiters are exceptionally uncommon. When I tread into the suburbs and rural areas, I see them a lot more.
I heard gaiters were more comfortable, but I've found the adjustable masks to be quite comfortable, personally. I have a large head so I struggled a lot early on.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on March 23, 2021, 02:22:25 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on March 23, 2021, 02:22:25 PM
When I first heard about gaiters (without ever seeing what one looked like), I thought there was some kind of mask called a gator, likely because of its shape being similar to an alligator or an alligator mouth.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 02:38:16 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: 1 on March 23, 2021, 02:22:25 PM
When I first heard about gaiters (without ever seeing what one looked like), I thought there was some kind of mask called a gator, likely because of its shape being similar to an alligator or an alligator mouth.
I have a raptor mask (kind of gator looking) I wore around town a couple times the week leading up to Halloween. I don't recall getting any weird looks (granted I really couldn't see) at any of the stores I went to, I certainly was never questioned.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 23, 2021, 03:10:30 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 23, 2021, 03:10:30 PM
I wore a buff early in the pandemic before masks were as ubiquitous to buy. It was comfortable (I use it when mountain climbing), but if it doesn't do anything (or if it makes it worse) then obviously I'm going a different direction. I've also read that it's worse to wear a mask outside if you're doing strenuous activity than to forego one altogether. Basically you sweat into the mask making it more likely to "catch" particles in the air.
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: davewiecking on March 23, 2021, 03:21:27 PM
Post by: davewiecking on March 23, 2021, 03:21:27 PM
Pfizer #1 in the arm. 1:45 appointment; arrived 1:35; vaccinated 1:55. Out the door at 2:10 with a card telling me to report back on 4/13.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 23, 2021, 03:23:30 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 23, 2021, 03:23:30 PM
Quote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMQuote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
Agreed with this from Western NY as well. I'd say 98-99% is a reasonable estimate. We also started with it much earlier than other parts of the country - April or May, as I recall? There has been very good compliance throughout the pandemic that's understandably starting to slip a little bit now.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 03:27:51 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 03:10:30 PM
I wore a buff early in the pandemic before masks were as ubiquitous to buy. It was comfortable (I use it when mountain climbing), but if it doesn't do anything (or if it makes it worse) then obviously I'm going a different direction. I've also read that it's worse to wear a mask outside if you're doing strenuous activity than to forego one altogether. Basically you sweat into the mask making it more likely to "catch" particles in the air.
Chris
Outside of experimenting once on an 8 mile run I haven't worn a mask during exercise. The conclusion I came to was that it was really easy for me to dodge people by six feet.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 23, 2021, 03:32:49 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 23, 2021, 03:32:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 03:27:51 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 03:10:30 PM
I wore a buff early in the pandemic before masks were as ubiquitous to buy. It was comfortable (I use it when mountain climbing), but if it doesn't do anything (or if it makes it worse) then obviously I'm going a different direction. I've also read that it's worse to wear a mask outside if you're doing strenuous activity than to forego one altogether. Basically you sweat into the mask making it more likely to "catch" particles in the air.
Chris
Outside of experimenting once on an 8 mile run I haven't worn a mask during exercise. The conclusion I came to was that it was really easy for me to dodge people by six feet.
When I'm on a trail that's in the mountains and you don't have the ability to step off, I keep my mask handy so I can put it on when someone approaches. But, bluntly that's more of a courtesy for the other person than it is my fear of catching it outside with a breeze blowing and only being within 6 feet of someone for 2 seconds.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 03:54:46 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 03:54:46 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 03:32:49 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 03:27:51 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 03:10:30 PM
I wore a buff early in the pandemic before masks were as ubiquitous to buy. It was comfortable (I use it when mountain climbing), but if it doesn't do anything (or if it makes it worse) then obviously I'm going a different direction. I've also read that it's worse to wear a mask outside if you're doing strenuous activity than to forego one altogether. Basically you sweat into the mask making it more likely to "catch" particles in the air.
Chris
Outside of experimenting once on an 8 mile run I haven't worn a mask during exercise. The conclusion I came to was that it was really easy for me to dodge people by six feet.
When I'm on a trail that's in the mountains and you don't have the ability to step off, I keep my mask handy so I can put it on when someone approaches. But, bluntly that's more of a courtesy for the other person than it is my fear of catching it outside with a breeze blowing and only being within 6 feet of someone for 2 seconds.
Chris
It depends. When I'm by myself I usually hike way faster or even trail run, my wife really slows me down. Unless it is something like Morro Rock I generally feel pretty comfortable I can get out of the way. My wife doesn't have the dexterity I do which is mostly the reason I carry one with me if we are hiking together. Either way, I don't really feel much concern regarding catching something in an open air environment with such short intervals of interaction.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 03:57:54 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 03:57:54 PM
Quote from: dkblake on March 21, 2021, 06:29:08 PM
I was reading an interview about this in one of the local Vermont papers, and the idea was to start with carrots more than sticks. The dogmatic anti-vaxxers get the most airspace, sure, but there are a decent population of people who just don't know for various reasons, and soft diplomacy (e.g. reassuring them that the technology is safe, that their own doctor has gotten it/will get it, that family members or other people got it and are fine and the world keeps spinning) will probably go a long way toward convincing enough people to get it in order to achieve herd immunity.
Heck, I have good friends who don't know if they want to get vaccinated, because they want people more vulnerable than they are to get whatever's available instead. Then, by the time that's happened, there might not be any need for them to get the vaccine anyway. That's hardly an attitude to penalize.
Quote from: bm7 on March 22, 2021, 11:59:18 PMQuote from: vdeane on March 22, 2021, 10:15:17 PM
My retina specialist, on the other hand, won't see you if you've been anywhere outside of the area any time even remotely soon.
This is one thing I don't understand, many people consider travel of any kind to be dangerous. Merely traveling does not make you any more likely to get it, and often times people are traveling to places with less people infected than where they live, which means they're probably actually less likely to get sick. For a while, my work said that if any of us travel outside the state, we should tell them and then not come in to work for a week afterwards, as if somehow the act of crossing a state border makes you more likely to be sick.
I've taken two of my sons in for eye exams in the past few months. On the form, it asks if you've been out of the state within the last thirty days. THIRTY DAYS? Good grief!
So I lied.
Quote from: vdeane on March 23, 2021, 02:21:31 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 02:17:00 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PMQuote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMQuote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
The articles I read basically said they don't stop nearly as many potential particles, hence why they're easier to breathe through. If the air gets through more easily, so does everything else.
Not only that, I've read that they can split particles and make things even worse than if you didn't wear anything at all. I'm not sure why they're still legal for the purposes of complying with a mask mandate.
The last time I read about that, it turns out that the experiment showing the whole particle-splitting thing was overblown, the authors stressed said that the supposed implications weren't really implied by the results, but by that time it had gone viral (pun not intended) and neck gaiters were considered inferior.
Meanwhile, I have my first shot scheduled for Friday evening.
Our friend who was laid up sick for a couple of days after getting his vaccination–well, his wife reacted badly to hers later as well: chills, headache, fever, lethargy, body aches. Grrr.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 04:02:38 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 04:02:38 PM
I've lied (or rather omitted) about when I've gone hiking out of state. Quite frankly is nobody"˜a business but my own and it's not exactly something that carries a greater risk of contracting COVID as opposed to things like going to the store.
Regarding vaccination side effects, I didn't have any on the first round.
Regarding vaccination side effects, I didn't have any on the first round.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 04:17:38 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 04:17:38 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 04:02:38 PM
I've lied (or rather omitted) about when I've gone hiking out of state. Quite frankly is nobody"˜a business but my own and it's not exactly something that carries a greater risk of contracting COVID as opposed to things like going to the store.
Regarding vaccination side effects, I didn't have any on the first round.
In our case, we had gone out of state something like three weeks earlier. While we were there, our family chose to watch the graduation on TV from my sister-in-law's house rather than going to the university itself. 'Within the last 14 days' I would have understood, but not 'within the last 30 days'.
Our friend's wife's injection site is also red, swollen, painful, and hot to the touch. She thinks they may have missed the muscle, too, based on the location.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 04:21:50 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 04:21:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 04:17:38 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 23, 2021, 04:02:38 PM
I've lied (or rather omitted) about when I've gone hiking out of state. Quite frankly is nobody"˜a business but my own and it's not exactly something that carries a greater risk of contracting COVID as opposed to things like going to the store.
Regarding vaccination side effects, I didn't have any on the first round.
In our case, we had gone out of state something like three weeks earlier. While we were there, our family chose to watch the graduation on TV from my sister-in-law's house rather than going to the university itself. 'Within the last 14 days' I would have understood, but not 'within the last 30 days'.
Our friend's wife's injection site is also red, swollen, painful, and hot to the touch. She thinks they may have missed the muscle, too, based on the location.
In my case I live in a state that doesn't have a travel quarantine mandate. So when I run into something like a Dentist office running contrary to actual public health policy where is my incentive to answer truthfully? It would be one thing if I was interacting with people, but in that specific instance I didn't interact with anyone. It would have cost me my appointment if I had answered truthfully, so I didn't.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 23, 2021, 05:11:14 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 23, 2021, 05:11:14 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 23, 2021, 03:23:30 PMQuote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMQuote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
Agreed with this from Western NY as well. I'd say 98-99% is a reasonable estimate. We also started with it much earlier than other parts of the country - April or May, as I recall? There has been very good compliance throughout the pandemic that's understandably starting to slip a little bit now.
Same here in Western Washington. Mask compliance is exceptional, even outdoors. Non-mask wearing in mask-mandated environments is very rare. Our mandate went into place in late June, but was common in some cities by that point. It has never been lifted.
The one exception might be apartment buildings. It seems people are not as willing to wear masks between entering the building and their units, although they usually "mask up" when coming face to face with someone else.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 23, 2021, 05:14:48 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 23, 2021, 05:14:48 PM
I only ever use a bandana. And never outdoors.
I've invented a way to raise or lower a bandana just by moving a muscle in the face.
I've invented a way to raise or lower a bandana just by moving a muscle in the face.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 05:34:47 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 05:34:47 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 23, 2021, 05:14:48 PM
I've invented a way to raise or lower a bandana just by moving a muscle in the face.
Trademarked, I assume? The bandanabipTM, perhaps?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on March 23, 2021, 05:38:51 PM
Post by: Duke87 on March 23, 2021, 05:38:51 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 11:12:54 PM
My daughter has been involved in contact tracing and vaccination appointments. CT has been a disaster compared to NY on the vaccination front. They have literally run out of slots for appointments and do not automatically schedule the second appointment, causing horrendous problems -- especially with the requirement that your second appointment must be at the same location as the first.
Well that's a fascinating take, given that CT currently ranks 5/50 for shots given per capita and 4/50 for percent of population fully vaccinated. NY ranks 29/50 and 41/50 on these metrics, respectively. (data available here) (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/)
Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PM
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
The issue is that the majority of neck gaiters out there are made of thin and porous material which make them ineffective. This Duke University study (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083) measures this in a simple and straightforward way.
Of course, the nuance here quickly gets lost and people rush to interpret the results as "neck gaiters are ineffective" rather than as "thin and porous face coverings are ineffective", focusing on the more obvious variable rather than the more logically meaningful one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 23, 2021, 06:22:32 PM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 23, 2021, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 11:12:54 PM
CT has been a disaster compared to NY on the vaccination front. They have literally run out of slots for appointments and do not automatically schedule the second appointment, causing horrendous problems -- especially with the requirement that your second appointment must be at the same location as the first.
FWIW, when I was in Waterbury getting my first shot on Sunday, my 15 minute observation period was spent in line, waiting to get to the "make second appointment" station. I've heard similar stories from others in CT, although I wouldn't discount the possibility of there being screw-ups elsewhere.
The biggest headache has been balancing demand with the availability of appointment slots. 500k people became eligible on Friday, yet only 80k appointments were made.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 23, 2021, 06:52:37 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 23, 2021, 06:52:37 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 23, 2021, 05:38:51 PM
Of course, the nuance here quickly gets lost and people rush to interpret the results as "neck gaiters are ineffective" rather than as "thin and porous face coverings are ineffective", focusing on the more obvious variable rather than the more logically meaningful one.
I suppose that's simply because neck gaiters are quite easy to spot. Face masks all look about the same. Assuming neck gaiters are universally thin and porous, it's easy enough to just ban neck gaiters.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 23, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 23, 2021, 05:38:51 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PM
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
The issue is that the majority of neck gaiters out there are made of thin and porous material which make them ineffective. This Duke University study (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083) measures this in a simple and straightforward way.
Of course, the nuance here quickly gets lost and people rush to interpret the results as "neck gaiters are ineffective" rather than as "thin and porous face coverings are ineffective", focusing on the more obvious variable rather than the more logically meaningful one.
Oh hey, look, that study I referenced. More accurate would be "thin and porous face coverings may theoretically be less effective at preventing the spread of a given airborne pathogen". But, in this world of clickbait social media, that sort of nuance is lost on people, therefore neck gaiters simply went from the "good" category to the "bad" category in people's minds in a matter of one or two weeks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 23, 2021, 11:18:01 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 23, 2021, 11:18:01 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 23, 2021, 05:38:51 PMQuote from: Rothman on March 22, 2021, 11:12:54 PM
My daughter has been involved in contact tracing and vaccination appointments. CT has been a disaster compared to NY on the vaccination front. They have literally run out of slots for appointments and do not automatically schedule the second appointment, causing horrendous problems -- especially with the requirement that your second appointment must be at the same location as the first.
Well that's a fascinating take, given that CT currently ranks 5/50 for shots given per capita and 4/50 for percent of population fully vaccinated. NY ranks 29/50 and 41/50 on these metrics, respectively. (data available here) (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/)
Pfft. I like this more specific data, which does show CT slightly higher than NY in terms of percent population that has received a first dose or both doses...but also shows CT has burned through its supply much faster, thus causing the issues my daughter is seeing firsthand there.
In other words, CT has used up 85% of its available supply for a few meager percentage points above NY, when NY's supply has not been drawn down as much.
Data here (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 24, 2021, 02:32:16 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 24, 2021, 02:32:16 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 23, 2021, 01:45:40 PM
In other news: I now have an appointment for my first shot. I'm getting Moderna at 12.45 PM this Saturday, March 27, at the Hunter Health Clinic, which is accepting all comers age 16 or over and does not have to adhere to state or county criteria since it receives its doses through the federal community health clinic program. (For nostalgia's sake, I would have liked to have been vaccinated at our old downtown library, but it is a county-run site for which I am unlikely to be eligible until May 1. I think it is preferable to be vaccinated sooner rather than later, given that our county is likely to drop its mask mandate this week.)
The state of Kansas did indeed remove the authority of counties and cities to enact mask mandates–and therefore our county has now rescinded its mask mandate in order to not be open to litigation. News reports invariably state that now it will be "up to individual businesses" to enact or not enact a mask mandate, and there are plenty of opinions to go around–both from the "man on the street" and from business owners.
Am I missing something?
Executive Order 20-68, which was issued by the state in November, applied to every county/jurisdiction that hadn't crafted its own mandates. That is, in the absence of a county- or city-specific mandate, the state mandate applied. As far as I know, that executive order is still in force. So what really changed? Didn't we merely switch from one (county) mask mandate to another (state) mask mandate?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 24, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 24, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 23, 2021, 02:21:31 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 23, 2021, 02:17:00 PMNot only that, I've read that they can split particles and make things even worse than if you didn't wear anything at all. I'm not sure why they're still legal for the purposes of complying with a mask mandate.Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2021, 02:08:38 PMQuote from: Jim on March 23, 2021, 06:56:59 AMQuote from: SSOWorld on March 23, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
Even states with mandates have shoddy compliance, both in people wearing them and in enforcement.
Not the case around here in upstate NY in my experience. Sure, some aren't quite over the nose, some might be fairly useless neck gaiters, but as far as the rate of reasonable compliance in places where you're supposed to be wearing one, I'd put it way over 99%.
I haven't been able to figure out why neck gaiters are getting such a bad rap. They have the same functionality as a mask.
The articles I read basically said they don't stop nearly as many potential particles, hence why they're easier to breathe through. If the air gets through more easily, so does everything else.
Chris
Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant. The only place I know of that specifically prohibited gaiters was the UK football stadium in Lexington. Walmart has signage that specifically allows bandanas and gaiters in addition to masks.
KYTC bought hi-viz gaiters for our crew members to wear, so there must not be too much concern about them in a state where the governor has been one of the most overreactive ones in the country.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 24, 2021, 03:27:10 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 24, 2021, 03:27:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 24, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant. The only place I know of that specifically prohibited gaiters was the UK football stadium in Lexington. Walmart has signage that specifically allows bandanas and gaiters in addition to masks.
KYTC bought hi-viz gaiters for our crew members to wear, so there must not be too much concern about them in a state where the governor has been one of the most overreactive ones in the country.
Flying to Vegas this past weekend, Southwest announced that the clear plastic shields did not count as a face covering. I've never quite understood those anyway.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ET21 on March 24, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
Post by: ET21 on March 24, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
Scheduled my first shot for tomorrow
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on March 24, 2021, 03:42:00 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on March 24, 2021, 03:42:00 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 24, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant.
I'm surprised I haven't seen a clear mask out of the thousands of people I've seen, even one made of fabric.
Being clear makes no difference as to the effectiveness. If it's plastic, and the plastic prevents particles from getting through (the ones you're talking about don't, but I'm imagining flexible plastic put on like a fabric mask), there's no reason why it shouldn't be allowed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 24, 2021, 03:43:00 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 24, 2021, 03:43:00 PM
Quote from: 1 on March 24, 2021, 03:42:00 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 24, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant.
I'm surprised I haven't seen a clear mask out of the thousands of people I've seen, even one made of fabric.
A good friend of mine has a cloth one with a clear plastic part in front of the mouth. That's because she's a music teacher, and the students need to see her mouth during class.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on March 24, 2021, 03:58:09 PM
Post by: webny99 on March 24, 2021, 03:58:09 PM
Quote from: 1 on March 24, 2021, 03:42:00 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 24, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Most mandates specify "face coverings," not the specific term "mask." So technically, clear plastic face shields would qualify as being compliant.
I'm surprised I haven't seen a clear mask out of the thousands of people I've seen, even one made of fabric.
Not even a face shield? I've seen several face shields, some worn with a mask as well, and some worn instead of a mask.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 24, 2021, 04:30:18 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 24, 2021, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 24, 2021, 02:32:16 PMThe state of Kansas did indeed remove the authority of counties and cities to enact mask mandates–and therefore our county has now rescinded its mask mandate in order to not be open to litigation. News reports invariably state that now it will be "up to individual businesses" to enact or not enact a mask mandate, and there are plenty of opinions to go around–both from the "man on the street" and from business owners.
Am I missing something?
Executive Order 20-68, which was issued by the state in November, applied to every county/jurisdiction that hadn't crafted its own mandates. That is, in the absence of a county- or city-specific mandate, the state mandate applied. As far as I know, that executive order is still in force. So what really changed? Didn't we merely switch from one (county) mask mandate to another (state) mask mandate?
I think the thing you are missing is that the legislature voided all of the governor's covid orders to date. The short description of the bill (https://legiscan.com/KS/text/SB40/2021) (which in fact is not all that short) contains the phrase "prohibiting certain actions by the governor related to the COVID-19 health emergency and revoking all executive orders related to such emergency on March 31, 2021."
The Wichita Eagle has reported that the Wichita City Council is considering reimposing a mask mandate by local ordinance, which it is free to do under its home-rule powers. This would cover about 70% of the county population. Of the seven council members (including the mayor), I expect Becky Tuttle, who represents a fairly conservative district in northeast Wichita, to be the swing vote.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 24, 2021, 04:58:15 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 24, 2021, 04:58:15 PM
So the state order was voided, and county orders were prohibited? How does that make sense?
Hmmm... instead of having two, possibly conflicting interests–let's just get rid of both!
Hmmm... instead of having two, possibly conflicting interests–let's just get rid of both!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 24, 2021, 05:46:12 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 24, 2021, 05:46:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 24, 2021, 04:58:15 PMSo the state order was voided, and county orders were prohibited? How does that make sense?
Hmmm... instead of having two, possibly conflicting interests–let's just get rid of both!
I don't know that SB 40 actually forbids counties from making mask mandates or other health orders. However, it apparently makes it easier for businesses to challenge them in court and harder for counties to prevail, which is why our county has cited the new law as its reason for lifting the mask requirement.
I expect vaccine prioritization to collapse soon, partly as a result of this. We're already combining Phases 3 and 4 (ages 16-64, at two separate levels of higher-than-normal vulnerability to bad covid due to underlying conditions). When you take away the protection of a mandatory mask order, it becomes harder to say No to those who are willing to be vaccinated and see it as important to their own safety.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on March 24, 2021, 08:34:23 PM
Post by: Duke87 on March 24, 2021, 08:34:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 23, 2021, 11:18:01 PM
Pfft. I like this more specific data, which does show CT slightly higher than NY in terms of percent population that has received a first dose or both doses...but also shows CT has burned through its supply much faster, thus causing the issues my daughter is seeing firsthand there.
In other words, CT has used up 85% of its available supply for a few meager percentage points above NY, when NY's supply has not been drawn down as much.
Data here (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html)
*shrug* Regardless of the details, CT has achieved better results than NY on the one statistic that matters, which is the number of shots in arms.
I am not familiar with the process of scheduling second appointments as I have yet to go through it myself, but both my parents have successfully done so and neither has had any complaints.
New York, meanwhile, has had plenty of messes with distributing doses - no one in CT is driving to the other end of the state to get a shot because appointments are disproportionately available over there. In NY, you have people driving to Potsdam or Plattsburgh from Long Island to get vaccinated because the state can't figure out how to allot things properly. And all this was happening while Yankee Stadium had tons of appointments available but since they were restricted to Bronx residents in the name of equity theater, no one else in the area was able to take advantage. And while the site in Washington Heights was having problems serving locals since no one thought it might be necessary to have staff that speaks Spanish in one of the largest Hispanic neighborhoods in the state.
Connecticut also has never flushed doses down the toilet because somewhere ran out of currently eligible people to jab and the governor had threatened to draw and quarter anyone who dared jab someone not yet eligible. In what state was that happening? Oh yeah...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 24, 2021, 10:04:23 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 24, 2021, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 24, 2021, 08:34:23 PMWeren't those doses supposed to be taken and given to places that hadn't run out?
Connecticut also has never flushed doses down the toilet because somewhere ran out of currently eligible people to jab and the governor had threatened to draw and quarter anyone who dared jab someone not yet eligible. In what state was that happening? Oh yeah...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 24, 2021, 10:08:37 PM
Post by: oscar on March 24, 2021, 10:08:37 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 24, 2021, 10:04:23 PMQuote from: Duke87 on March 24, 2021, 08:34:23 PMWeren't those doses supposed to be taken and given to places that hadn't run out?
Connecticut also has never flushed doses down the toilet because somewhere ran out of currently eligible people to jab and the governor had threatened to draw and quarter anyone who dared jab someone not yet eligible. In what state was that happening? Oh yeah...
If they were already taken out of the freezer, there's not much time to move the doses someplace else before they spoil. Thus the mad scrambles (where the law permits) to find an arm, any arm, at or very close to the vaccination site, so a dose doesn't go to waste.
At least in my area, some people will lurk around pharmacies, to get doses that would otherwise go to waste.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:58:25 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 24, 2021, 08:34:23 PMQuote from: Rothman on March 23, 2021, 11:18:01 PM
Pfft. I like this more specific data, which does show CT slightly higher than NY in terms of percent population that has received a first dose or both doses...but also shows CT has burned through its supply much faster, thus causing the issues my daughter is seeing firsthand there.
In other words, CT has used up 85% of its available supply for a few meager percentage points above NY, when NY's supply has not been drawn down as much.
Data here (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html)
*shrug* Regardless of the details, CT has achieved better results than NY on the one statistic that matters, which is the number of shots in arms.
I am not familiar with the process of scheduling second appointments as I have yet to go through it myself, but both my parents have successfully done so and neither has had any complaints.
New York, meanwhile, has had plenty of messes with distributing doses - no one in CT is driving to the other end of the state to get a shot because appointments are disproportionately available over there. In NY, you have people driving to Potsdam or Plattsburgh from Long Island to get vaccinated because the state can't figure out how to allot things properly. And all this was happening while Yankee Stadium had tons of appointments available but since they were restricted to Bronx residents in the name of equity theater, no one else in the area was able to take advantage. And while the site in Washington Heights was having problems serving locals since no one thought it might be necessary to have staff that speaks Spanish in one of the largest Hispanic neighborhoods in the state.
Connecticut also has never flushed doses down the toilet because somewhere ran out of currently eligible people to jab and the governor had threatened to draw and quarter anyone who dared jab someone not yet eligible. In what state was that happening? Oh yeah...
My daugter just told me that on Monday, the entire scheduling system in CT collapsed for the entire day. The operators had to take phone numbers and tell them that they would get calls when the system was back up.
System came back up yesterday, but no appointment slots were available for scheduling. There were only two sites in the entirety of CT open for appointments today. The expansion of eligibility to 45 and up has totally overwhelmed the system (my daughter reports Gen Xers are far more understanding than Boomers, though). So yes, people in CT are having to drive considerably around their state.
I'll take her experience with hundreds of Nutmeggers per week over your parents' singular experience any day.
Also, people driving all over NY was a temporary glitch in the appointment system -- people didn't realize that all you had to do was refresh the screen and wait for a slot to pop up and it did not have anything to do with equity theater as you put it. People in Syracuse have not had to go to Potsdam in over a month (State Fairgrounds has a great operation) for example, and the state system runs quite smoothly -- especially since more sites opened over the last month. Your information is obsolete.
The current situation means that NY should surpass CT in vaccinations in the near future as recent appointment difficulties will cause a plateau.
CT is sucking it up.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on March 25, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Post by: Duke87 on March 25, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:58:25 PM
My daugter just told me that on Monday, the entire scheduling system in CT collapsed for the entire day. The operators had to take phone numbers and tell them that they would get calls when the system was back up.
System came back up yesterday, but no appointment slots were available for scheduling. There were only two sites in the entirety of CT open for appointments today. The expansion of eligibility to 45 and up has totally overwhelmed the system
I mean, the system crashed when eligibility expanded to 55-64 a few weeks ago too. And I expect it to crash again when eligibility to everyone under 45 opens up. There's no real way to avoid this other than being more incremental about who you open up to when - too much traffic at once will overwhelm any web service. This has also not been a CT-specific problem.
Meanwhile the fact that only two sites had open appointments today should not be seen as a failure - quite the opposite, having open appointments day of means a slower rate of vaccine distribution because sites aren't jabbing as many people as they could be.
I am also curious if you know anyone who has a similar role to your daughter in NY, and what they'd have to say about how everything is working.
On a final note, regarding this assertion:
QuoteThe current situation means that NY should surpass CT in vaccinations in the near future as recent appointment difficulties will cause a plateau.
Well, this is empirically testable. Let's see how things look in a few weeks, shall we?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Zeffy on March 25, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
Post by: Zeffy on March 25, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
The vaccination is a giant mess in the Philly suburbs. As far as I know we're still in the first phase; I have no idea when I'll be able to get my shot because I am in phase 2, which is back of the line in PA terms. Phase 1 is broken into 1A, 1B and 1C, and we're still in 1A. I don't know how we messed it up this badly, but the three major Philly suburb counties (Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware) bungled up this entire thing pretty badly.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on March 25, 2021, 09:58:05 AM
Post by: Mapmikey on March 25, 2021, 09:58:05 AM
Got my second shot yesterday (Pfizer). Arm is more sore than the 1st shot but otherwise no other effects I have noticed.
Wife was able to get her first shot yesterday though the system run by the Commonwealth of Virginia. Other than them being flummoxed by my wife walking to the appointment (since I couldn't be in two places at once), it was quite smooth and efficient.
When vaccines were first announced there was a website that would predict where you are in line (nationally) based on your particular situation. It had predicted we would be 290,000,000th in line so we did a little better than that.
Wife was able to get her first shot yesterday though the system run by the Commonwealth of Virginia. Other than them being flummoxed by my wife walking to the appointment (since I couldn't be in two places at once), it was quite smooth and efficient.
When vaccines were first announced there was a website that would predict where you are in line (nationally) based on your particular situation. It had predicted we would be 290,000,000th in line so we did a little better than that.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
For those of you who are getting shots, if you're taking the Pfizer or Moderna ones, are you getting them in the same arm or different arms?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on March 25, 2021, 12:39:07 PM
Post by: Mapmikey on March 25, 2021, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
For those of you who are getting shots, if you're taking the Pfizer or Moderna ones, are you getting them in the same arm or different arms?
same arm for me
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 12:44:31 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 12:44:31 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PMI believe the same arm. They track it on the card.
For those of you who are getting shots, if you're taking the Pfizer or Moderna ones, are you getting them in the same arm or different arms?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Do they make sure it's in your non-dominant arm?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 01:00:19 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 01:00:19 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 24, 2021, 10:08:37 PMThe issue in NY was that hospitals had finished vaccinating all their staff that were willing to take the vaccine and still had allotments in the freezer. The state was to take those unused allotments and give them to other places. And if they had taken stuff out of the freezer, if they took out more than they could use, that's hardly the state's fault. Check with your staff who will take the vaccine before you take out the whole allotment assuming everyone will! Even stuff that is out of the freezer, I'm sure it could be driven to another hospital in the area.Quote from: vdeane on March 24, 2021, 10:04:23 PMQuote from: Duke87 on March 24, 2021, 08:34:23 PMWeren't those doses supposed to be taken and given to places that hadn't run out?
Connecticut also has never flushed doses down the toilet because somewhere ran out of currently eligible people to jab and the governor had threatened to draw and quarter anyone who dared jab someone not yet eligible. In what state was that happening? Oh yeah...
If they were already taken out of the freezer, there's not much time to move the doses someplace else before they spoil. Thus the mad scrambles (where the law permits) to find an arm, any arm, at or very close to the vaccination site, so a dose doesn't go to waste.
At least in my area, some people will lurk around pharmacies, to get doses that would otherwise go to waste.
I'm sure this is one reason why things are by appointment only.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Life in Paradise on March 25, 2021, 01:16:46 PM
Post by: Life in Paradise on March 25, 2021, 01:16:46 PM
Been rather impressed with the way Indiana has rolled out the vaccines. You can get them at several pharmacies, some big box stores and clinics in my area. My wife and I a couple of weeks ago went to one of the state-held vaccine events, and they were organized by the Indiana National Guard as well as health professionals. You had appointment times, but could arrive any time and start the process. Almost no waiting, and everything went like clockwork. (They had the J & J vaccine early and we wanted one-and-done unlike what I desire for my favorite sports teams). There are more Indiana events coming, but you have to be a state resident. Did have fatigue for a couple of days and headaches, but for the life of me, I can barely say I felt being shot, and my arm never hurt.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 25, 2021, 01:18:32 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 25, 2021, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Do they make sure it's in your non-dominant arm?
I've always been told you should get it in your dominant arm because moving the muscles a lot helps with the soreness. I got my first shot in my right (dominant) and it only hurt for about 12 hours thankfully. We'll see how #2 goes here in a couple of weeks.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 25, 2021, 02:29:45 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 25, 2021, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Do they make sure it's in your non-dominant arm?
In my case, they asked which arm I preferred it in. I told them to use my non-dominant arm.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:33:09 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:33:09 PM
I'm scheduled for my first shot Monday, so I guess I'll find out then whether they give me a choice. I'm right-handed, but I use a PC's mouse with my left hand for several reasons, so I don't know which arm would be the better one to choose. Sounds like left might be the way to go based on jayhawkco's comment because I use a mouse a lot more than I hand-write anything.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 25, 2021, 02:35:21 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 25, 2021, 02:35:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 02:33:09 PM
I'm scheduled for my first shot Monday, so I guess I'll find out then whether they give me a choice. I'm right-handed, but I use a PC's mouse with my left hand for several reasons, so I don't know which arm would be the better one to choose. Sounds like left might be the way to go based on jayhawkco's comment because I use a mouse a lot more than I hand-write anything.
For the record, they gave me a choice too. I just chose my dominant as I had been told that tidbit by a couple different nurses in the past.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on March 25, 2021, 02:35:32 PM
Post by: Jim on March 25, 2021, 02:35:32 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
For those of you who are getting shots, if you're taking the Pfizer or Moderna ones, are you getting them in the same arm or different arms?
I was offered a choice each time, as was my father when I brought him, for both our first and second Pfizer doses. I went left/non-dominant both times.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 02:44:44 PM
Post by: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 02:44:44 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 25, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Meanwhile the fact that only two sites had open appointments today should not be seen as a failure - quite the opposite, having open appointments day of means a slower rate of vaccine distribution because sites aren't jabbing as many people as they could be.
This. The last thing you want with the level of demand right now is open appointments, because that shows you're not being efficient with geographic distribution. The fact that NY has open appointments for today in some regions and no availability for over a month in others shows that the state has done a poor job allocating doses based on demand. An open appointment means that a dose is going unused. And since NY won't let vaccine sites jab anyone who isn't otherwise eligible with their spare doses, that means a dose is probably going to waste.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 03:10:31 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 03:10:31 PM
My wife just came back from getting her second shot. I asked if they gave her a choice of arms and she said no–the way the place was set up was such that it was your left arm. I assume she could have asked for the other arm, but I didn't bother to mention it because she isn't the type to have asked them that. I'm getting mine at a different location, so I'll ask if they have a recommendation on this issue and will let you know what they say.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 03:12:59 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 03:12:59 PM
I imagine that, at drive-through locations, they do whichever arm is out the window.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: GaryV on March 25, 2021, 07:40:07 PM
Post by: GaryV on March 25, 2021, 07:40:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 25, 2021, 02:29:45 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Do they make sure it's in your non-dominant arm?
In my case, they asked which arm I preferred it in. I told them to use my non-dominant arm.
They asked me both times too. I chose left for the first shot, right for the 2nd. It seemed to me it would be good to use the other arm the 2nd time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 25, 2021, 07:59:15 PM
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 25, 2021, 07:59:15 PM
Has anyone else experienced a drastic change in wait times between the first dose and second dose? When I went to get my first shot, I was in line for a good hour and a half before getting the jab. But when I went to get my second the other day (at the exact same place and time), I was in and out within 20 minutes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 08:26:43 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 25, 2021, 08:26:43 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 25, 2021, 07:59:15 PM
Has anyone else experienced a drastic change in wait times between the first dose and second dose? When I went to get my first shot, I was in line for a good hour and a half before getting the jab. But when I went to get my second the other day (at the exact same place and time), I was in and out within 20 minutes.
My wife said she didn't wait at all today for her second shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 09:09:29 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 09:09:29 PM
My mom is getting hers tomorrow. She is getting the Johnson & Johnson one. the single dose.
North Carolina opens eligibility to the rest of group 4 on the 31st, and to anyone over 16 on April 7.
North Carolina opens eligibility to the rest of group 4 on the 31st, and to anyone over 16 on April 7.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 09:47:18 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 09:47:18 PM
Quote from: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 02:44:44 PMNot everyone is willing to sit on the page and constantly reload hoping to finally get through only to make an appointment for two months out. My Dad in particular was unwilling to do that or drive out of the area (and by "out of the area", I mean places like Greece or Eastview Mall, much less the long drives to Potsdam many people have done!). When my parents got appointments for April 11 (made back in February) at the Dome Arena, both of them were made by Mom (they did eventually get earlier appointments at CVS, Dad biting the bullet and spending one of his days off to use up his vacation time before retirement to sit at the computer and set it up, but the point stands).Quote from: Duke87 on March 25, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Meanwhile the fact that only two sites had open appointments today should not be seen as a failure - quite the opposite, having open appointments day of means a slower rate of vaccine distribution because sites aren't jabbing as many people as they could be.
This. The last thing you want with the level of demand right now is open appointments, because that shows you're not being efficient with geographic distribution. The fact that NY has open appointments for today in some regions and no availability for over a month in others shows that the state has done a poor job allocating doses based on demand. An open appointment means that a dose is going unused. And since NY won't let vaccine sites jab anyone who isn't otherwise eligible with their spare doses, that means a dose is probably going to waste.
As for wasting doses, why take a vial out of the freezer if you don't have the appointments to use it?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 09:56:59 PM
Post by: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 09:56:59 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 09:47:18 PM
As for wasting doses, why take a vial out of the freezer if you don't have the appointments to use it?
A vial is 5-15 doses depending on the vaccine. Unless your number of people showing up is divisible by the number of doses in a vial, you're going to have extra. Once a vial is opened, it needs to be used in entirety or discarded.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 10:10:42 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 10:10:42 PM
Quote from: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 09:56:59 PMWhen did 15 dose vials start being a thing? I've only heard of the 5-6 dose ones. I could see how 15 dose vials would create a much bigger issue than the 5 dose vials.Quote from: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 09:47:18 PM
As for wasting doses, why take a vial out of the freezer if you don't have the appointments to use it?
A vial is 5-15 doses depending on the vaccine. Unless your number of people showing up is divisible by the number of doses in a vial, you're going to have extra. Once a vial is opened, it needs to be used in entirety or discarded.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 10:11:49 PM
Post by: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 10:11:49 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 10:10:42 PMQuote from: cl94 on March 25, 2021, 09:56:59 PMWhen did 15 dose vials start being a thing? I've only heard of the 5-6 dose ones. I could see how 15 dose vials would create a much bigger issue than the 5 dose vials.Quote from: vdeane on March 25, 2021, 09:47:18 PM
As for wasting doses, why take a vial out of the freezer if you don't have the appointments to use it?
A vial is 5-15 doses depending on the vaccine. Unless your number of people showing up is divisible by the number of doses in a vial, you're going to have extra. Once a vial is opened, it needs to be used in entirety or discarded.
Moderna is 15 doses. They started out at 10, but increased to 15 a month or so ago.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 25, 2021, 11:06:32 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on March 25, 2021, 11:06:32 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on March 25, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
The vaccination is a giant mess in the Philly suburbs. As far as I know we're still in the first phase; I have no idea when I'll be able to get my shot because I am in phase 2, which is back of the line in PA terms. Phase 1 is broken into 1A, 1B and 1C, and we're still in 1A. I don't know how we messed it up this badly, but the three major Philly suburb counties (Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware) bungled up this entire thing pretty badly.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-pennsylvania-coronavirus-tom-wolf-appointments-1a-philadelphia-suburbs-20210325.html
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 12:44:31 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PMI believe the same arm. They track it on the card.
For those of you who are getting shots, if you're taking the Pfizer or Moderna ones, are you getting them in the same arm or different arms?
Where I went, we get our card at the end, so at that point they don't know what arm had the injection. Heck, we even write our own name and birthday in!
Which arm? Seems like there's a bit of mis information with what arm is best, and the info is 50/50. Doesn't really seem to matter in the end. Some people say they can work out the pain from their dominant arm; others have no pain whatsoever regardless of the arm jabbed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ET21 on March 25, 2021, 11:30:47 PM
Post by: ET21 on March 25, 2021, 11:30:47 PM
First shot completed, go back in 3 weeks for dose 2. Got the Pfizer version, so far only mild discomfort by the shot area. Pretty similar to how a post flu shot felt
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 11:51:50 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 11:51:50 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 25, 2021, 11:06:32 PMOn my card, the nurse put an L in a circle to denote the left arm after I got the first shot.Quote from: Zeffy on March 25, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
The vaccination is a giant mess in the Philly suburbs. As far as I know we're still in the first phase; I have no idea when I'll be able to get my shot because I am in phase 2, which is back of the line in PA terms. Phase 1 is broken into 1A, 1B and 1C, and we're still in 1A. I don't know how we messed it up this badly, but the three major Philly suburb counties (Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware) bungled up this entire thing pretty badly.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-pennsylvania-coronavirus-tom-wolf-appointments-1a-philadelphia-suburbs-20210325.htmlQuote from: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 12:44:31 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PMI believe the same arm. They track it on the card.
For those of you who are getting shots, if you're taking the Pfizer or Moderna ones, are you getting them in the same arm or different arms?
Where I went, we get our card at the end, so at that point they don't know what arm had the injection. Heck, we even write our own name and birthday in!
Which arm? Seems like there's a bit of mis information with what arm is best, and the info is 50/50. Doesn't really seem to matter in the end. Some people say they can work out the pain from their dominant arm; others have no pain whatsoever regardless of the arm jabbed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on March 26, 2021, 06:42:23 AM
Post by: SSOWorld on March 26, 2021, 06:42:23 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 11:51:50 PMYou sure they didn't mean Loser😶Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 25, 2021, 11:06:32 PMOn my card, the nurse put an L in a circle to denote the left arm after I got the first shot.Quote from: Zeffy on March 25, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
The vaccination is a giant mess in the Philly suburbs. As far as I know we're still in the first phase; I have no idea when I'll be able to get my shot because I am in phase 2, which is back of the line in PA terms. Phase 1 is broken into 1A, 1B and 1C, and we're still in 1A. I don't know how we messed it up this badly, but the three major Philly suburb counties (Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware) bungled up this entire thing pretty badly.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-pennsylvania-coronavirus-tom-wolf-appointments-1a-philadelphia-suburbs-20210325.htmlQuote from: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 12:44:31 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PMI believe the same arm. They track it on the card.
For those of you who are getting shots, if you're taking the Pfizer or Moderna ones, are you getting them in the same arm or different arms?
Where I went, we get our card at the end, so at that point they don't know what arm had the injection. Heck, we even write our own name and birthday in!
Which arm? Seems like there's a bit of mis information with what arm is best, and the info is 50/50. Doesn't really seem to matter in the end. Some people say they can work out the pain from their dominant arm; others have no pain whatsoever regardless of the arm jabbed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 26, 2021, 06:49:40 AM
Post by: Rothman on March 26, 2021, 06:49:40 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 26, 2021, 06:42:23 AMYou hurt my feelings. :(Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 11:51:50 PMYou sure they didn't mean LoserQuote from: jeffandnicole on March 25, 2021, 11:06:32 PMOn my card, the nurse put an L in a circle to denote the left arm after I got the first shot.Quote from: Zeffy on March 25, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
The vaccination is a giant mess in the Philly suburbs. As far as I know we're still in the first phase; I have no idea when I'll be able to get my shot because I am in phase 2, which is back of the line in PA terms. Phase 1 is broken into 1A, 1B and 1C, and we're still in 1A. I don't know how we messed it up this badly, but the three major Philly suburb counties (Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware) bungled up this entire thing pretty badly.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-pennsylvania-coronavirus-tom-wolf-appointments-1a-philadelphia-suburbs-20210325.htmlQuote from: Rothman on March 25, 2021, 12:44:31 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 25, 2021, 12:32:57 PMI believe the same arm. They track it on the card.
For those of you who are getting shots, if you're taking the Pfizer or Moderna ones, are you getting them in the same arm or different arms?
Where I went, we get our card at the end, so at that point they don't know what arm had the injection. Heck, we even write our own name and birthday in!
Which arm? Seems like there's a bit of mis information with what arm is best, and the info is 50/50. Doesn't really seem to matter in the end. Some people say they can work out the pain from their dominant arm; others have no pain whatsoever regardless of the arm jabbed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: catch22 on March 26, 2021, 12:08:40 PM
Post by: catch22 on March 26, 2021, 12:08:40 PM
Pfizer shot #2 this morning for my wife and I. No side effects yet except for some arm soreness (same as last time).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 02:02:50 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 19, 2021, 10:46:52 AM
A close friend just got his first(second?)shot, and he is in really bad shape, sick as a dog from it.
Well, this has now been explained. It turns out he has COVID-19, and he was probably just asymptomatic when he got his shot. He also has bronchitis. He thought it was just seasonal allergies at first, which often turn into bronchitis for him, but now he's laid up in bed. Meanwhile, his wife has already been fully vaccinated.
I wasn't quite a close contact. Before he knew he had the virus, he forced himself to come to band practice at church Wednesday night (thinking he just needed to push through his annual allergy-related bronchitis). Fortunately, I'm the drummer, so I sit more than six feet behind everyone–including him–and I'm half-shielded by plexiglass back there.
The irony is that he is one of the most COVID-careful people I know. He was/is a math major, and for the longest time he kept his family home from church activities based on various rate trends in our area. It's only been in the last few weeks, with rates declining sharply here, that he's come back for the first time since June or something like that.
I consider my own likelihood of having caught the virus from him to be quite low but not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Knowing the exact time of potential exposure, and since it was less than two days ago, and because the virus's incubation period seems to be around 2-3 days before shedding, I'm going through with my scheduled first-dose vaccination today after work. That way, even on the off-chance I do have the virus, I won't yet be contagious and the vaccination might get ahead of the replication process.
Fun times, boys and girls...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
(From my comments, you can probably guess that I haven't had the vaccine yet. And I probably won't take it, for a variety of reasons.)
(From my comments, you can probably guess that I haven't had the vaccine yet. And I probably won't take it, for a variety of reasons.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 26, 2021, 02:13:28 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 26, 2021, 02:13:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
(From my comments, you can probably guess that I haven't had the vaccine yet. And I probably won't take it, for a variety of reasons.)
The needle I got was probably among the smallest I've ever had used on me for an injection.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: catch22 on March 26, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
Post by: catch22 on March 26, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
(From my comments, you can probably guess that I haven't had the vaccine yet. And I probably won't take it, for a variety of reasons.)
In my case, short and thin. I hardly felt it at all.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
All this info helps me, by the way. I have vasovagal syncope, which means I get light-headed in medical situations. Knowing what to expect when I get there should help.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on March 26, 2021, 03:04:31 PM
Post by: Mapmikey on March 26, 2021, 03:04:31 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
(From my comments, you can probably guess that I haven't had the vaccine yet. And I probably won't take it, for a variety of reasons.)
Didn't feel shot #1 at all and barely felt #2
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 26, 2021, 05:19:03 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 26, 2021, 05:19:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PMNot sure why anyone wouldn't. You should get vaccinated.
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
(From my comments, you can probably guess that I haven't had the vaccine yet. And I probably won't take it, for a variety of reasons.)
I didn't even feel the first shot. It was great.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 26, 2021, 05:37:59 PM
Post by: oscar on March 26, 2021, 05:37:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
I felt just barely enough to tell that I had been injected.
I didn't look at the needle. Maybe on Monday morning, when I go back for my second shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 08:04:18 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 08:04:18 PM
Just got home from getting my first poke.
Paperwork: I had my print-out, a copy of my paystub, and my wallet with DL inside. The lady directing 'traffic' told me to get out my ID because they'd be asking me for it. Then, when I started to pull it out of my wallet, she said "Oh, you don't have to get it out if it's in something. Here, let me see your papers. I'll fast-track you." So I never showed ID, never proved eligibility. But other people probably did.
Needle: Not bad of a needle prick. Nothing to fear.
Observation: Because I said I have a known reaction to the -myacin group of drugs, they told me to stay in observation for 30-40 minutes. I'm guessing they say that to anyone who has any reaction to any drug, just in case. So I went in and sat down, and shortly thereafter an 'observer' came by and asked if I was doing OK. I was, so I said yes. Then, five or ten minutes later, I got up to stretch my arms and legs, and my vasovagal syncope kicked in. For those just tuning in, vasovagal syncope is a situation-triggered sudden drop in blood pressure. My trigger is medical situations. So I got clammy and queasy, and my fingers started tingling. Fortunately, I know what it is (thanks to a chiropractor at our church who explained it when it happened after a chest X-ray at her clinic a couple of years ago), so I knew to put my head down between my knees. I sat like that for some time, with my head between my knees. Slowly, gradually, my blood pressure returned to normal. That whole time, though, not a single worker noticed or came by to check on me. Well, I already knew that 'observation' is kind of a joke. More like self-observation. I texted my mom (a retired nurse) about it later, and she replied that at least I didn't pass out and cause a scene–but if I had, maybe it would have spiced up their day. :)
Side-effects: None so far. My arm isn't sore. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a remote possibility that I picked up the virus two days ago, so I'll be paying really close attention to how I feel for about the next four days.
People have various reasons. I know people who are skeptical about how the development process was fast-tracked, so they worry about unknown long-term side effects of the vaccine. I know people who consider themselves to be young and healthy enough that they'd rather everyone else get vaccinated first, and then just wait and see if there's even a pandemic anymore by that time. I'm sure there are other people who figure their risk of having an adverse reaction to the vaccine is greater than their risk of catching and getting sick from the virus itself.
Obviously, I decided to get my vaccine. But, honestly, I was kind of meh about it, until forum members mentioned the possibility that not having it might inhibit international travel. I had always been on the side of the fence toward getting vaccinated, but just barely on that side of the fence.
Paperwork: I had my print-out, a copy of my paystub, and my wallet with DL inside. The lady directing 'traffic' told me to get out my ID because they'd be asking me for it. Then, when I started to pull it out of my wallet, she said "Oh, you don't have to get it out if it's in something. Here, let me see your papers. I'll fast-track you." So I never showed ID, never proved eligibility. But other people probably did.
Needle: Not bad of a needle prick. Nothing to fear.
Observation: Because I said I have a known reaction to the -myacin group of drugs, they told me to stay in observation for 30-40 minutes. I'm guessing they say that to anyone who has any reaction to any drug, just in case. So I went in and sat down, and shortly thereafter an 'observer' came by and asked if I was doing OK. I was, so I said yes. Then, five or ten minutes later, I got up to stretch my arms and legs, and my vasovagal syncope kicked in. For those just tuning in, vasovagal syncope is a situation-triggered sudden drop in blood pressure. My trigger is medical situations. So I got clammy and queasy, and my fingers started tingling. Fortunately, I know what it is (thanks to a chiropractor at our church who explained it when it happened after a chest X-ray at her clinic a couple of years ago), so I knew to put my head down between my knees. I sat like that for some time, with my head between my knees. Slowly, gradually, my blood pressure returned to normal. That whole time, though, not a single worker noticed or came by to check on me. Well, I already knew that 'observation' is kind of a joke. More like self-observation. I texted my mom (a retired nurse) about it later, and she replied that at least I didn't pass out and cause a scene–but if I had, maybe it would have spiced up their day. :)
Side-effects: None so far. My arm isn't sore. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a remote possibility that I picked up the virus two days ago, so I'll be paying really close attention to how I feel for about the next four days.
Quote from: Rothman on March 26, 2021, 05:19:03 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
(From my comments, you can probably guess that I haven't had the vaccine yet. And I probably won't take it, for a variety of reasons.)
Not sure why anyone wouldn't. You should get vaccinated.
People have various reasons. I know people who are skeptical about how the development process was fast-tracked, so they worry about unknown long-term side effects of the vaccine. I know people who consider themselves to be young and healthy enough that they'd rather everyone else get vaccinated first, and then just wait and see if there's even a pandemic anymore by that time. I'm sure there are other people who figure their risk of having an adverse reaction to the vaccine is greater than their risk of catching and getting sick from the virus itself.
Obviously, I decided to get my vaccine. But, honestly, I was kind of meh about it, until forum members mentioned the possibility that not having it might inhibit international travel. I had always been on the side of the fence toward getting vaccinated, but just barely on that side of the fence.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 08:18:58 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 08:18:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 08:04:18 PM
Then, five or ten minutes later, I got up to stretch my arms and legs, and my vasovagal syncope kicked in. For those just tuning in, vasovagal syncope is a situation-triggered sudden drop in blood pressure. My trigger is medical situations. So I got clammy and queasy, and my fingers started tingling. Fortunately, I know what it is (thanks to a chiropractor at our church who explained it when it happened after a chest X-ray at her clinic a couple of years ago), so I knew to put my head down between my knees. I sat like that for some time, with my head between my knees. Slowly, gradually, my blood pressure returned to normal. That whole time, though, not a single worker noticed or came by to check on me. Well, I already knew that 'observation' is kind of a joke. More like self-observation. I texted my mom (a retired nurse) about it later, and she replied that at least I didn't pass out and cause a scene–but if I had, maybe it would have spiced up their day. :)
Geez, that sounds like a really rough thing to have to go through. Out of curiosity, have you ever talked to a therapist or psychiatrist about it? They may be able to help figure out a way to keep your brain from reacting to the stressful situation (as the brain sees it) with a blood pressure drop. Of course, that might be enough of a medical situation to trigger it, which would make pursuing that avenue tricky.
Brains are really weird, and it's hard enough keeping the body's hardware running in good shape without the software interfering...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 08:29:44 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 08:29:44 PM
I do better if there's a distraction. So, while I was actually getting stuck with the needle, I just did people-watching in the other direction. But after a while of just sitting by myself and thinking about how my arm felt, it crept up on me. I might actually have been better off if I had walked outside to my family, who was waiting in the car, immediately. But I thought it was a good idea to wait the full half-hour, just in case. As it turns out, it took about 30 minutes to both experience the syncope and come out of it.
I had considered bringing a paper towel and a water bottle with me, just in case this happened. Then, I could wet the paper towel and make a cool compress out of it. Maybe I should have. Oh well, it passed.
I had considered bringing a paper towel and a water bottle with me, just in case this happened. Then, I could wet the paper towel and make a cool compress out of it. Maybe I should have. Oh well, it passed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Thing 342 on March 26, 2021, 11:24:11 PM
Post by: Thing 342 on March 26, 2021, 11:24:11 PM
Got my first shot on this week at an open clinic that bypassed our state's massively overcomplicated prioritization/appointment scheme. Not sure how or why they were able to offer it to normies like me, but appreciative nonetheless. Moderna vaccine, no real side effects other than the standard shoulder soreness that I typically get from flu shots. The clinic was run with impressive efficiency, I was #113 in line and was in and out in about an hour. We were told in 28 days to show up at similar clinic to receive our second doses.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 12:23:49 AM
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 12:23:49 AM
Didn't feel anything after my first dose and felt moderately sick the entire day the day after my second. Nothing too horrible; it basically felt like when you've had the flu and mostly recovered but you're not quite fully back to normal yet. Just stayed home for the day and I was fine by the next morning. It's weird because some friends of mine that are around the same age said they felt nothing after their second shot. Maybe it varies from person to person. But just thought I would let anyone here getting a two-shot vaccine know what to expect.
If anyone has post-second-dose experiences, feel free to share if/when you get it.
If anyone has post-second-dose experiences, feel free to share if/when you get it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
Post by: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 01:23:27 PM
Post by: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 01:23:27 PM
I got my first shot on Wednesday of the Pfizer vaccine. In theory, there were still priority restricted groups (Illinois has "partially" relaxed that as of Friday, and many county health departments are authorized for anyone 16 and older now), but there were zero qualification questions asked - just basic allergy questions and if I've had COVID. Just had to show an ID and a QR code from when I scheduled the appointment
Looked like there were college athletes, or at least students, from SIU that were getting the vaccine the same time I went to the site
Looked like there were college athletes, or at least students, from SIU that were getting the vaccine the same time I went to the site
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Post by: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PMYou do realize there is an insane amount of profit involved in mass vaccination of world populations?
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
I understand cynicism towards pharmaceuticals - I have a fair amount myself. But in this case, the circumstances present enables profit maximization - a novel virus that has disrupted world commerce with billions of people and trillions of dollars affected. Large masses of people will ultimately be vaccinated - kinda works for the business model, for both profits and health (often times it does not - see chronic condidtions and focusing on treatments versus cures, but that is a whole different discussion, not for this thread)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 27, 2021, 02:24:46 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 27, 2021, 02:24:46 PM
Quote from: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PMThe vaccine has gone through extensive testing. It works. Get vaccinated.
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 27, 2021, 02:35:39 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 27, 2021, 02:35:39 PM
Quote from: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
Do you consider everything that's been through a full set of clinical trials and received FDA approval to be "experimental" or only things that Newsmax told you not to get?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 02:53:18 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 27, 2021, 02:35:39 PMQuote from: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
Do you consider everything that's been through a full set of clinical trials and received FDA approval to be "experimental" or only things that Newsmax told you not to get?
Probably thinks that it has stuff in it that will turn us into Lizard People. Speaking for myself, I welcome the opportunity to become of the ruling class of alien-hybrid overlords. I have my apartment picked out already in the underground lair at Denver International Airport. At least I'll be able to act as my own 5G hot spot by the time I get my second shot. Speaking of that, I guess I'm schedule for that second shot on the 8th of April.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 03:09:35 PM
Post by: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 03:09:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 02:53:18 PMMy second shot is set for (normal) Tax Day, April 15. I am supposed to get an email from the county health department to formally schedule it between now and then
Speaking of that, I guess I'm schedule for that second shot on the 8th of April.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 03:15:04 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 03:09:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 02:53:18 PMMy second shot is set for (normal) Tax Day, April 15. I am supposed to get an email from the county health department to formally schedule it between now and then
Speaking of that, I guess I'm schedule for that second shot on the 8th of April.
I got my first shot on a military base. Basically they just gave me an appointment card that said to show back up on the 8th when they are doing shots again. I'm assuming this will include the two hour line I dealt with last time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 27, 2021, 03:50:07 PM
Post by: oscar on March 27, 2021, 03:50:07 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 03:15:04 PMQuote from: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 03:09:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 02:53:18 PMMy second shot is set for (normal) Tax Day, April 15. I am supposed to get an email from the county health department to formally schedule it between now and then
Speaking of that, I guess I'm schedule for that second shot on the 8th of April.
I got my first shot on a military base. Basically they just gave me an appointment card that said to show back up on the 8th when they are doing shots again. I'm assuming this will include the two hour line I dealt with last time.
When I got my first dose, I got a card saying that the earliest I could get my second shot was 3/29, but no promise of available vaccine or appointment slots on that day. My county didn't send me the e-mail inviting me to set my second-shot appointment until yesterday morning, after a new Pfizer vaccine supply had come in. By then, appointment slots on 3/29 were starting to fill up, but I managed to get one. In the meantime, the county shifted its second-dose appointments to a center previously reserved for J&J shots, this one within walking distance of my apartment.
I've heard that other people in my county were also unhappy about the delayed invitation, worried that they had been forgotten, and also concerned about the very short lead time to schedule an appointment.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 03:55:52 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 01:33:44 PMQuote from: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PMYou do realize there is an insane amount of profit involved in mass vaccination of world populations?
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
I understand cynicism towards pharmaceuticals - I have a fair amount myself. But in this case, the circumstances present enables profit maximization - a novel virus that has disrupted world commerce with billions of people and trillions of dollars affected. Large masses of people will ultimately be vaccinated - kinda works for the business model, for both profits and health (often times it does not - see chronic condidtions and focusing on treatments versus cures, but that is a whole different discussion, not for this thread)
Pfizer can't sell Viagra (or any other long term medication) to anyone who dies from covid. So really, it's in their best interest to sell something that keeps people alive.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 03:56:50 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 03:56:50 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 27, 2021, 03:50:07 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 03:15:04 PMQuote from: ilpt4u on March 27, 2021, 03:09:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 02:53:18 PMMy second shot is set for (normal) Tax Day, April 15. I am supposed to get an email from the county health department to formally schedule it between now and then
Speaking of that, I guess I'm schedule for that second shot on the 8th of April.
I got my first shot on a military base. Basically they just gave me an appointment card that said to show back up on the 8th when they are doing shots again. I'm assuming this will include the two hour line I dealt with last time.
When I got my first dose, I got a card saying that the earliest I could get my second shot was 3/29, but no promise of available vaccine or appointment slots on that day. My county didn't send me the e-mail inviting me to set my second-shot appointment until yesterday morning, after a new Pfizer vaccine supply had come in. By then, appointment slots on 3/29 were starting to fill up, but I managed to get one. In the meantime, the county shifted its second-dose appointments to a center previously reserved for J&J shots, this one within walking distance of my apartment.
I've heard that other people in my county were also unhappy about the delayed invitation, worried that they had been forgotten, and also concerned about the very short lead time to schedule an appointment.
To that end this is why I signed up for the shots on the base I work on as opposed to Fresno County. There are a lot of stories about people being delayed from their second shot for one reason or another, but mostly supply. Usually the base is pretty through about letting people know where they stand before the actual day in question. It certainly is way more convenient for me since I can do it on my shift and have it go way faster than the real world.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
The biggest mitigating factor for me safety-wise was that when I got my shot, close to 100 million had already been vaccinated with no serious safety concerns reported.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 27, 2021, 04:40:52 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 27, 2021, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
(https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6QfY0iceT137C8X2lNvxhQHaFE&pid=Api&P=0&w=241&h=166)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dlsterner on March 27, 2021, 09:29:12 PM
Post by: dlsterner on March 27, 2021, 09:29:12 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on March 22, 2021, 01:03:29 AMQuote from: dlsterner on March 05, 2021, 12:45:38 AM
Well, if I were just 2½ years older, I would be eligible right now. As it stands, I will easily be in the next phase (Phase 2) that Maryland opens up (hopefully soon), and I plan to get the vaccine as soon as practical.
Update - was able to reposition from Phase 2 to Phase 1C; will be getting the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine this coming Saturday and the second dose three weeks later.
Got my first jab today. Nearest place I was able to get an appointment was a one hour drive away. In and out in 30 minutes, never left the car. Shot given through the car window. No issues except a wee bit of soreness at the injection site.
And now to do the same thing all over again in three weeks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on March 27, 2021, 10:12:16 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on March 27, 2021, 10:12:16 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
Does it really matter how long the needle is? That certainly doesn't seem like a reason to not be vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 10:20:52 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 10:20:52 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on March 27, 2021, 10:12:16 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
Does it really matter how long the needle is? That certainly doesn't seem like a reason to not be vaccinated.
Rationally, no. But some people have a fear of needles that may prevent them from wanting to take the shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on March 27, 2021, 10:56:52 PM
Post by: Jim on March 27, 2021, 10:56:52 PM
I don't know how standard the needles are for these, but I would also say that for both of my Pfizer doses I really didn't feel it. Compare to last fall's flu shot, which was not painful by any means but definitely much more noticeable.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 28, 2021, 02:24:53 AM
Post by: jakeroot on March 28, 2021, 02:24:53 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2021, 02:53:18 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on March 27, 2021, 02:35:39 PMQuote from: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
Do you consider everything that's been through a full set of clinical trials and received FDA approval to be "experimental" or only things that Newsmax told you not to get?
Probably thinks that it has stuff in it that will turn us into Lizard People. Speaking for myself, I welcome the opportunity to become of the ruling class of alien-hybrid overlords. I have my apartment picked out already in the underground lair at Denver International Airport. At least I'll be able to act as my own 5G hot spot by the time I get my second shot. Speaking of that, I guess I'm schedule for that second shot on the 8th of April.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/1000/1*3WChFMXqt6t53y3q0iTPvQ.gif)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:41:59 AM
Post by: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:41:59 AM
Finally got my first dose and am feeling the side effects kick in right as I was trying to get some sleep. The headache is the most annoying part at the moment.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 28, 2021, 09:53:27 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 28, 2021, 09:53:27 AM
Quote from: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:41:59 AM
Finally got my first dose and am feeling the side effects kick in right as I was trying to get some sleep. The headache is the most annoying part at the moment.
Which one did you get?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:19:36 PM
Post by: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:19:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 28, 2021, 09:53:27 AMQuote from: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:41:59 AM
Finally got my first dose and am feeling the side effects kick in right as I was trying to get some sleep. The headache is the most annoying part at the moment.
Which one did you get?
I got the Moderna one. J&J is exclusively for rural areas and homeless populations here, while Pfeizer is hard to find.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 28, 2021, 05:31:27 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 28, 2021, 05:31:27 PM
Quote from: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:19:36 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on March 28, 2021, 09:53:27 AMQuote from: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:41:59 AM
Finally got my first dose and am feeling the side effects kick in right as I was trying to get some sleep. The headache is the most annoying part at the moment.
Which one did you get?
I got the Moderna one. J&J is exclusively for rural areas and homeless populations here, while Pfeizer is hard to find.
I'm not sure I realized how hard it was to find the Pfizer vaccine. But you're right: of my whole family (who is almost all entirely vaccinated), my sister is the only one who got Pfizer. Coincidentally, she's the only one who works in medicine (Overlake).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on March 28, 2021, 05:41:46 PM
Post by: ilpt4u on March 28, 2021, 05:41:46 PM
Locally, the J&J and Pfizer are typically offered by the county Health Dept, depending on the day and/or vaccination site - granted, a fairly rural area, in Southern Illinois
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on March 28, 2021, 05:55:00 PM
Post by: cl94 on March 28, 2021, 05:55:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 28, 2021, 05:31:27 PMQuote from: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:19:36 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on March 28, 2021, 09:53:27 AMQuote from: Bruce on March 28, 2021, 05:41:59 AM
Finally got my first dose and am feeling the side effects kick in right as I was trying to get some sleep. The headache is the most annoying part at the moment.
Which one did you get?
I got the Moderna one. J&J is exclusively for rural areas and homeless populations here, while Pfeizer is hard to find.
I'm not sure I realized how hard it was to find the Pfizer vaccine. But you're right: of my whole family (who is almost all entirely vaccinated), my sister is the only one who got Pfizer. Coincidentally, she's the only one who works in medicine (Overlake).
It's the opposite out here (New York). Very few people who have gotten a first dose in the past month-month and a half have gotten Moderna and most of the government sites are passing out Pfizer. J&J is very limited and, aside from a few batches that have been given at overnight sites, has mostly been reserved for rural areas and homebound seniors. Almost everybody I know of in New York who has gotten Moderna is either healthcare or was able to get in through an early priority group.
Re: eligibility, I'm in a weird situation where I would fall inside a priority group in several states...just not in my own. If I were to temporarily move to New Jersey, for example, I could probably get in for dose 1 this week. But since New York has weird criteria and requires proof to get jabbed...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on March 28, 2021, 08:42:57 PM
Post by: ilpt4u on March 28, 2021, 08:42:57 PM
Some local businesses in Southern Illinios have mentioned "Vaccine Tourism" - fair amount of Chicagolanders coming to Southern Illinois to get vaccinated, as some of the suburban health departments are booked solid for vaccines, and the Southern Illinois health departments have opened up vaccination appointments to any state of IL resident that currently fits current qualifications (basically, 16 and up now)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 28, 2021, 09:10:23 PM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on March 28, 2021, 09:10:23 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 27, 2021, 03:50:07 PM
When I got my first dose, I got a card saying that the earliest I could get my second shot was 3/29, but no promise of available vaccine or appointment slots on that day. My county didn't send me the e-mail inviting me to set my second-shot appointment until yesterday morning, after a new Pfizer vaccine supply had come in. By then, appointment slots on 3/29 were starting to fill up, but I managed to get one. In the meantime, the county shifted its second-dose appointments to a center previously reserved for J&J shots, this one within walking distance of my apartment.
I've heard that other people in my county were also unhappy about the delayed invitation, worried that they had been forgotten, and also concerned about the very short lead time to schedule an appointment.
When I got my first shot, the 15 minute observation period was spent shuffling through a socially-distanced queue to get to a station to schedule our second dose.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on March 29, 2021, 12:56:29 AM
Post by: Duke87 on March 29, 2021, 12:56:29 AM
Quote from: Frafra Zoomer on March 27, 2021, 01:16:25 PM
I'm not taking experimental mRNA gene therapy from corporations that care more about profit than health
Then get the Johnson and Johnson shot. It's a more traditional vaccine that doesn't use the experimental mRNA method.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Bruce on March 29, 2021, 01:49:04 AM
Post by: Bruce on March 29, 2021, 01:49:04 AM
Washington isn't opening full eligibility until just before the presidential deadline of May 1, and we aren't expecting local herd immunity in my county until late August. It took me 2 weeks to find an appointment slot after I became eligible, so demand is sky-high here...and it does irk a lot of us to see states that didn't follow pandemic-thwarting measures as well as we did get to jump ahead in the race to normalcy.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:19:58 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:19:58 AM
Don't get too irked just yet–those states are likely to "hit the wall" beyond which people are reluctant or refuse to get vaccinated way sooner than the other states. In fact, I imagine that's why eligibility is so wide in Oklahoma at the moment–they simply ran out of people in the higher-priority groups that were willing to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: formulanone on March 29, 2021, 06:37:29 AM
Post by: formulanone on March 29, 2021, 06:37:29 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 10:20:52 PMQuote from: Ketchup99 on March 27, 2021, 10:12:16 PMQuote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 02:06:35 PM
How about needle size? The photos I've seen seem to show really long needles. But I've heard people say the needles with which they were injected were very small.
Does it really matter how long the needle is? That certainly doesn't seem like a reason to not be vaccinated.
Rationally, no. But some people have a fear of needles that may prevent them from wanting to take the shot.
I normally tend to look away at the last second, but since I've never been more enthusiastic about a shot, I watched. It was no more than a flu shot needle (3/4", perhaps). No ill effects, be back for another dose in three weeks.
They didn't check any ID nor anything else - they just went on the honor system if you had an appointment.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 29, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 29, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
I got my first Pfizer shot this morning. Straightforward process, barely even felt the needle. No arm pain or soreness so far, but I guess I'll see as the day goes on. I already have the appointment for my second shot, so I spent the 15-minute waiting period reading a book on my Kindle.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on March 29, 2021, 11:55:29 AM
Post by: oscar on March 29, 2021, 11:55:29 AM
Just got my second Pfizer shot half an hour ago. No problems so far.
I felt the needle going in (coward that I am about such things, I looked away), but no pain. The paramedic who jabbed me said my needle was 25 gauge, 1" long. He said vax manufacturers supply their own syringes, so YMMV.
I'm not done with vaccinations just yet, need to schedule a Shingrix booster shot at least two weeks from now, that had been delayed for my Covid vaccine shots.
I felt the needle going in (coward that I am about such things, I looked away), but no pain. The paramedic who jabbed me said my needle was 25 gauge, 1" long. He said vax manufacturers supply their own syringes, so YMMV.
I'm not done with vaccinations just yet, need to schedule a Shingrix booster shot at least two weeks from now, that had been delayed for my Covid vaccine shots.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on March 29, 2021, 12:01:36 PM
Post by: cl94 on March 29, 2021, 12:01:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:19:58 AM
Don't get too irked just yet–those states are likely to "hit the wall" beyond which people are reluctant or refuse to get vaccinated way sooner than the other states. In fact, I imagine that's why eligibility is so wide in Oklahoma at the moment–they simply ran out of people in the higher-priority groups that were willing to get vaccinated.
That's the thing: states with narrower eligibility tend to have a higher acceptance rate. Connecticut has consistently been among the leaders in terms of vaccination rate and they were moving slower to open to additional people than many nearby states. Places that are bluer and whiter are more likely to be willing to get vaccinated now.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 29, 2021, 01:23:20 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 29, 2021, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: cl94 on March 29, 2021, 12:01:36 PM
That's the thing: states with narrower eligibility tend to have a higher acceptance rate. Connecticut has consistently been among the leaders in terms of vaccination rate and they were moving slower to open to additional people than many nearby states. Places that are bluer and whiter are more likely to be willing to get vaccinated now.
The same people that didn't give a damn about wearing masks and in turn had higher infection rates are also the people not bothering to get vaccinated. It's kind of maddening. Fortunately there are a couple of outliers like New Mexico that got crushed with Covid but they're leading the U.S. in highest vaccination percentages.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on March 29, 2021, 01:35:01 PM
Post by: SectorZ on March 29, 2021, 01:35:01 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:23:20 PMQuote from: cl94 on March 29, 2021, 12:01:36 PM
That's the thing: states with narrower eligibility tend to have a higher acceptance rate. Connecticut has consistently been among the leaders in terms of vaccination rate and they were moving slower to open to additional people than many nearby states. Places that are bluer and whiter are more likely to be willing to get vaccinated now.
The same people that didn't give a damn about wearing masks and in turn had higher infection rates are also the people not bothering to get vaccinated. It's kind of maddening. Fortunately there are a couple of outliers like New Mexico that got crushed with Covid but they're leading the U.S. in highest vaccination percentages.
Chris
Not at all the case. I know plenty of people that never shut up about masks and staying home who won't get vaccinated, and plenty of people not fans of masks that are/want to get vaccinated ASAP. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 29, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 29, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 29, 2021, 01:35:01 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:23:20 PMQuote from: cl94 on March 29, 2021, 12:01:36 PM
That's the thing: states with narrower eligibility tend to have a higher acceptance rate. Connecticut has consistently been among the leaders in terms of vaccination rate and they were moving slower to open to additional people than many nearby states. Places that are bluer and whiter are more likely to be willing to get vaccinated now.
The same people that didn't give a damn about wearing masks and in turn had higher infection rates are also the people not bothering to get vaccinated. It's kind of maddening. Fortunately there are a couple of outliers like New Mexico that got crushed with Covid but they're leading the U.S. in highest vaccination percentages.
Chris
Not at all the case. I know plenty of people that never shut up about masks and staying home who won't get vaccinated, and plenty of people not fans of masks that are/want to get vaccinated ASAP. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm guessing the Venn diagram overlaps quite a bit though.
Also, good news for the New Yorkers on here. As of 4/6/21, anyone over 16 can get vaccinated.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on March 29, 2021, 01:40:47 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on March 29, 2021, 01:40:47 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 29, 2021, 01:35:01 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:23:20 PMQuote from: cl94 on March 29, 2021, 12:01:36 PM
That's the thing: states with narrower eligibility tend to have a higher acceptance rate. Connecticut has consistently been among the leaders in terms of vaccination rate and they were moving slower to open to additional people than many nearby states. Places that are bluer and whiter are more likely to be willing to get vaccinated now.
The same people that didn't give a damn about wearing masks and in turn had higher infection rates are also the people not bothering to get vaccinated. It's kind of maddening. Fortunately there are a couple of outliers like New Mexico that got crushed with Covid but they're leading the U.S. in highest vaccination percentages.
Chris
Not at all the case. I know plenty of people that never shut up about masks and staying home who won't get vaccinated, and plenty of people not fans of masks that are/want to get vaccinated ASAP. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
The people who think masks don't help are also the ones who don't want to get vaccinated, especially if conspiracy theories are involved. There are other reasons not to wear a mask in certain situations (personally, I wear it indoors but not outdoors, and for runners, masks make you sweat) or not get the vaccine immediately (someone in their 20s might want to let older people have it first); this correlation doesn't apply to them.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on March 29, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
Post by: bandit957 on March 29, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
People who supported vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks, are going to end up looking pretty good in the end. Trust me on this.
This is actually in line with the standard pandemic playbook before 2020, which encouraged vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks.
This is actually in line with the standard pandemic playbook before 2020, which encouraged vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 29, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 29, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on March 29, 2021, 01:35:01 PM
I know plenty of people that never shut up about masks and staying home who won't get vaccinated, and plenty of people not fans of masks that are/want to get vaccinated ASAP. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
There does seem to be some correlation between states that either had lax mask mandates (such as local-only) or no longer have a mask mandate, and states with less vaccine interest (easier scheduling and fewer restrictions).
Those who are "not a fan of masks" are likely to get the vaccine sooner specifically to help society get to a point where we no longer need a mask mandate, not because they don't wear them or something. But those who don't wear masks, or avoid any situation that might require a mask, likely aren't first in line for a vaccine as it seems (to me at least) they aren't as worried about the virus.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 29, 2021, 01:49:58 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 29, 2021, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 29, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
People who supported vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks, are going to end up looking pretty good in the end. Trust me on this.
This is actually in line with the standard pandemic playbook before 2020, which encouraged vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks.
Just as studies have come out saying if we had followed CDC guidelines, hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved?
As Sweden tried to only go for herd immunity and now have one of the highest death rates in Europe?
Unfortunately, my trust will be placed elsewhere.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on March 29, 2021, 01:51:00 PM
Post by: jakeroot on March 29, 2021, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 29, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
People who supported vaccines
Almost everyone. The more interesting statistic: those who will actually get it.
For example: my idiot uncle would prefer to be part of the group of people who don't get it but don't need to because of herd immunity. But he definitely supports the vaccine. Just not for him. Selfish twit.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 29, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 29, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 29, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
Those who are "not a fan of masks" are likely to get the vaccine sooner specifically to help society get to a point where we no longer needs a mask mandate, not because they don't wear them or something. But those who don't wear masks, or avoid any situation that might require a mask, likely aren't first in line for a vaccine as it seems (to me at least) they aren't as worried about the virus.
I don't know anyone who is a fan of masks. But it's just what we have to do for the benefits of others. I'll be vaccinated completely in two more weeks. I will still wear a mask when in public places after that (until the science says otherwise) because, while I will be incredibly unlikely to get sick, I could still infect others. Call me crazy, but I don't like having a non-zero percent chance of killing people by avoiding doing something so simple.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 29, 2021, 06:46:31 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 29, 2021, 06:46:31 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:55:08 PMQuote from: jakeroot on March 29, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
Those who are "not a fan of masks" are likely to get the vaccine sooner specifically to help society get to a point where we no longer needs a mask mandate, not because they don't wear them or something. But those who don't wear masks, or avoid any situation that might require a mask, likely aren't first in line for a vaccine as it seems (to me at least) they aren't as worried about the virus.
I don't know anyone who is a fan of masks. But it's just what we have to do for the benefits of others. I'll be vaccinated completely in two more weeks. I will still wear a mask when in public places after that (until the science says otherwise) because, while I will be incredibly unlikely to get sick, I could still infect others. Call me crazy, but I don't like having a non-zero percent chance of killing people by avoiding doing something so simple.
Chris
Personally I hate wearing a mask and wouldn't if it got the point where I didn't need to. Hell, I was called "selfish" in the original COVID thread for wearing a mask despite not liking it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on March 29, 2021, 10:14:01 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on March 29, 2021, 10:14:01 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 29, 2021, 01:51:00 PMGuess I'm a selfish twit then.
Selfish twit.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 29, 2021, 10:54:26 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 29, 2021, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 29, 2021, 01:46:16 PMVaccines are great, masks are fine (masks are only an issue when exercising), lockdowns it's more complicated as they hurt the economy while often not reducing cases.
People who supported vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks, are going to end up looking pretty good in the end. Trust me on this.
This is actually in line with the standard pandemic playbook before 2020, which encouraged vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 29, 2021, 11:15:11 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 29, 2021, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on March 29, 2021, 10:14:01 PMIf the shoe fits?Quote from: jakeroot on March 29, 2021, 01:51:00 PMGuess I'm a selfish twit then.
Selfish twit.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 29, 2021, 11:31:15 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 29, 2021, 11:31:15 PM
Although our governor had announced late last week that Kansas would be opening vaccination to everybody today, I kept my appointment last Saturday at the Hunter Health Clinic. Signing up for the shot with them resulted in an invitation to set up an account on their health portal, which I did. On Friday evening I received a message through it saying that the shots would be given in the main building at Central and Grove and telling me to wear a short-sleeved shirt, arrive five minutes early, and look for a big tent in their parking lot, where there would be forms and information on parking.
When I got there at about 12.30 for a 12.45 appointment, there was a queue of vehicles on Grove waiting to turn left into their driveway, so I just parked at the curb in the neighborhood and walked up. At the tent they handed me two pages of forms--one for the CDC's VAMS and the other for contraindications--and told me where the back of the line was. It snaked out of the front door, ran along the east edge of the parking lot and the north side of the building, and (at the time I joined) extended all the way to the next street west.
The process was pretty smooth once I got into the clinic building itself--I had to wait in line for an hour and 35 minutes just to get to the temperature scan inside the front door. (I was happy I had brought Bob Woodward's Rage with me. I was 120 pages from the end when I joined the line, and 17 by the time I was all finished. I was also happy I had worn a sweatshirt over my polo shirt, as the breeze was both cool and stiff.) At check-in (configured like tellers in a bank lobby), a clerk (one of six, I think) inspected the forms and my driver's license, took down information from my health insurance card, asked me to key in my social security number on a numeric keypad, and asked me to sign on a digital signature pad. I was signed up for my second shot on April 24. Then I was handed back the forms, license, and card, and waved to a queue for the vaccination itself, which was being done at multiple stations set up in a corridor. I took my sweatshirt off while I was waiting. The vaccinator collected my forms, countersigned them, and handed to a woman who was doing data entry on a laptop. I just rolled up my left sleeve; the syringe was pencil-thin and I hardly saw the needle or felt it go in. I was then handed an orange stopwatch preset for fifteen minutes and told to find a place to sit down and wait.
There was a bunch of people in the nearest cross hallway sitting in adjacent chairs and not maintaining social distancing, so I went further into the building and found an empty waiting area. As I was waiting out my fifteen minutes, someone came with a goodie bag containing a brochure explaining the clinic's services and a small tube of hand sanitizer. It was a gracious way of checking that I hadn't keeled over dead. I was in fact feeling a little lightheaded, but this was largely because I hadn't had lunch before I went.
In the two days since, the worst side effect I've had is soreness at the injection site. It's largely gone now, but yesterday I was really feeling it every time I lifted my left elbow to shoulder height. I've been able to sleep on that side, however, and haven't had to take any NSAIDs.
The forms I was asked to fill out were prepopulated with information specific to the event (date, lot number for the Moderna vaccine, etc.) and were essentially similar to these:
* Vaccination Patient Record (http://www.nacainc.org/assets/covid-19-vaccination-patient-record-12.11.2020_finalapproved_fillable.pdf) (just the first page was used)
* Prevaccination Checklist (http://www.nacainc.org/assets/pre-vaccination-screening-form_fillable.pdf) (just the page with the Yes/No questions was used; on the actual form the questions were the same, but the formatting was less elaborate and more economical with toner)
These PDFs are hosted by Native Americans for Community Action. Although Hunter Health Clinic is a Federally Qualified Health Center (hence it can access vaccine stocks directly from the federal government without having to follow state criteria) and caters to all medically under-served demographics, it was started in the 1970's as an urban health clinic for Native Americans.
I think I am probably in the CDC's books as a Kansas person that has received covid-19 vaccine, but I don't know if I was simultaneously entered into the state's WebIZ database or if there is a process of reconciliation between the two.
When I got there at about 12.30 for a 12.45 appointment, there was a queue of vehicles on Grove waiting to turn left into their driveway, so I just parked at the curb in the neighborhood and walked up. At the tent they handed me two pages of forms--one for the CDC's VAMS and the other for contraindications--and told me where the back of the line was. It snaked out of the front door, ran along the east edge of the parking lot and the north side of the building, and (at the time I joined) extended all the way to the next street west.
The process was pretty smooth once I got into the clinic building itself--I had to wait in line for an hour and 35 minutes just to get to the temperature scan inside the front door. (I was happy I had brought Bob Woodward's Rage with me. I was 120 pages from the end when I joined the line, and 17 by the time I was all finished. I was also happy I had worn a sweatshirt over my polo shirt, as the breeze was both cool and stiff.) At check-in (configured like tellers in a bank lobby), a clerk (one of six, I think) inspected the forms and my driver's license, took down information from my health insurance card, asked me to key in my social security number on a numeric keypad, and asked me to sign on a digital signature pad. I was signed up for my second shot on April 24. Then I was handed back the forms, license, and card, and waved to a queue for the vaccination itself, which was being done at multiple stations set up in a corridor. I took my sweatshirt off while I was waiting. The vaccinator collected my forms, countersigned them, and handed to a woman who was doing data entry on a laptop. I just rolled up my left sleeve; the syringe was pencil-thin and I hardly saw the needle or felt it go in. I was then handed an orange stopwatch preset for fifteen minutes and told to find a place to sit down and wait.
There was a bunch of people in the nearest cross hallway sitting in adjacent chairs and not maintaining social distancing, so I went further into the building and found an empty waiting area. As I was waiting out my fifteen minutes, someone came with a goodie bag containing a brochure explaining the clinic's services and a small tube of hand sanitizer. It was a gracious way of checking that I hadn't keeled over dead. I was in fact feeling a little lightheaded, but this was largely because I hadn't had lunch before I went.
In the two days since, the worst side effect I've had is soreness at the injection site. It's largely gone now, but yesterday I was really feeling it every time I lifted my left elbow to shoulder height. I've been able to sleep on that side, however, and haven't had to take any NSAIDs.
The forms I was asked to fill out were prepopulated with information specific to the event (date, lot number for the Moderna vaccine, etc.) and were essentially similar to these:
* Vaccination Patient Record (http://www.nacainc.org/assets/covid-19-vaccination-patient-record-12.11.2020_finalapproved_fillable.pdf) (just the first page was used)
* Prevaccination Checklist (http://www.nacainc.org/assets/pre-vaccination-screening-form_fillable.pdf) (just the page with the Yes/No questions was used; on the actual form the questions were the same, but the formatting was less elaborate and more economical with toner)
These PDFs are hosted by Native Americans for Community Action. Although Hunter Health Clinic is a Federally Qualified Health Center (hence it can access vaccine stocks directly from the federal government without having to follow state criteria) and caters to all medically under-served demographics, it was started in the 1970's as an urban health clinic for Native Americans.
I think I am probably in the CDC's books as a Kansas person that has received covid-19 vaccine, but I don't know if I was simultaneously entered into the state's WebIZ database or if there is a process of reconciliation between the two.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on March 29, 2021, 11:44:33 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on March 29, 2021, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 29, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
People who supported vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks, are going to end up looking pretty good in the end. Trust me on this.
This is actually in line with the standard pandemic playbook before 2020, which encouraged vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks.
I mean... lockdowns and masks are radically different things. Lockdowns, except short circuit-breakers when cases surge, are pretty unnecessary - usually. Masks, I don't understand this. Life looks a lot more normal when one can put a mask on and significantly reduce transmission, and it's not much skin off your back to wear one.
The "pandemic playbook" you tout wasn't meant for a virus like Covid. It was meant for pandemic influenza, of the sort we saw in 2009. In other words, a bad flu season. But it also provided exceptions for a more severe flu pandemic. The plan from 2005 held that the government should "provide guidance... including those circumstances where social distancing measures, limitations on gatherings, or quarantine authority may be an appropriate public health intervention." Over time, as we've learned more about the virus, masks have largely replaced or supplemented distancing, which allows for more normal life. These restrictions are unsurprising. The only surprising thing is that we have a coronavirus, and not an influenza virus, but our response is similar.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on March 29, 2021, 11:48:10 PM
Post by: Rothman on March 29, 2021, 11:48:10 PM
When I got my second shot on Sunday, it was like the first: In and out of the State Fair Expo in less than half an hour and yet with all available tables filled. Very efficient operation.
Waiting for the side effects to kick in. Had then with the first shot. Perhaps I have just been hydrating better than I did the first time around.
Waiting for the side effects to kick in. Had then with the first shot. Perhaps I have just been hydrating better than I did the first time around.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 29, 2021, 11:57:29 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 29, 2021, 11:57:29 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on March 29, 2021, 11:44:33 PMMasks are only iffy when restaurants and food are involved.Quote from: bandit957 on March 29, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
People who supported vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks, are going to end up looking pretty good in the end. Trust me on this.
This is actually in line with the standard pandemic playbook before 2020, which encouraged vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks.
I mean... lockdowns and masks are radically different things. Lockdowns, except short circuit-breakers when cases surge, are pretty unnecessary - usually. Masks, I don't understand this. Life looks a lot more normal when one can put a mask on and significantly reduce transmission, and it's not much skin off your back to wear one.
The "pandemic playbook" you tout wasn't meant for a virus like Covid. It was meant for pandemic influenza, of the sort we saw in 2009. In other words, a bad flu season. But it also provided exceptions for a more severe flu pandemic. The plan from 2005 held that the government should "provide guidance... including those circumstances where social distancing measures, limitations on gatherings, or quarantine authority may be an appropriate public health intervention." Over time, as we've learned more about the virus, masks have largely replaced or supplemented distancing, which allows for more normal life. These restrictions are unsurprising. The only surprising thing is that we have a coronavirus, and not an influenza virus, but our response is similar.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Bruce on March 30, 2021, 12:00:31 AM
Post by: Bruce on March 30, 2021, 12:00:31 AM
My vaccination was hosted by a local clinic and was really smooth: 5 minutes in line for the temperature while filling out forms, walk up the stairs to the lobby to present ID and insurance, then a minute to get into a room for the jab. 15 minutes of waiting (including scheduling a second dose) later and I was home free.
I took my mom to get her vaccination at a county-run site (the local airport) and it took a bit longer and we were stuck in the car for a while, but otherwise it was smooth. They did not provide any helpful paperwork (including the side effects and such), though.
I took my mom to get her vaccination at a county-run site (the local airport) and it took a bit longer and we were stuck in the car for a while, but otherwise it was smooth. They did not provide any helpful paperwork (including the side effects and such), though.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 30, 2021, 12:01:45 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 30, 2021, 12:01:45 AM
I just preregistered! So excited! April 19th can't come soon enough...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on March 30, 2021, 08:26:57 AM
Post by: SectorZ on March 30, 2021, 08:26:57 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 29, 2021, 10:54:26 PMQuote from: bandit957 on March 29, 2021, 01:46:16 PMVaccines are great, masks are fine (masks are only an issue when exercising), lockdowns it's more complicated as they hurt the economy while often not reducing cases.
People who supported vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks, are going to end up looking pretty good in the end. Trust me on this.
This is actually in line with the standard pandemic playbook before 2020, which encouraged vaccines, but opposed lockdowns and masks.
This has been my point for a year or so. The government tied masks and lockdowns together, and therefore people against lockdowns tended to be against masks as well.
If there were no to little lockdowns, the mask thing would not nearly be a big deal as it is.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:34:29 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:34:29 PM
Pfizer is now much more common around here. They basically stopped giving people Moderna because it's easier to store, and they want to send that out to the smaller towns around the state–saving the difficult-to-store one for a larger city that can actually accommodate it better.
I forgot to mention scheduling when I got my first shot last week. Afterwards, I could either (a) go up to a person and have him or her help me schedule my next appointment, (b) scan a QR code and proceed from there, or (c) just go home and schedule my next shot from the convenience of my home computer. That's what I'll be doing. But I haven't done so yet, because I'd rather wait and make sure I don't come down with any COVID symptoms and then have to wait three months or whatever.
Really? The people I know who think masks don't help simply think most masks are ineffective at preventing the spread.
I forgot to mention scheduling when I got my first shot last week. Afterwards, I could either (a) go up to a person and have him or her help me schedule my next appointment, (b) scan a QR code and proceed from there, or (c) just go home and schedule my next shot from the convenience of my home computer. That's what I'll be doing. But I haven't done so yet, because I'd rather wait and make sure I don't come down with any COVID symptoms and then have to wait three months or whatever.
Quote from: 1 on March 29, 2021, 01:40:47 PM
The people who think masks don't help are also the ones who don't want to get vaccinated, especially if conspiracy theories are involved.
Really? The people I know who think masks don't help simply think most masks are ineffective at preventing the spread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 30, 2021, 12:37:22 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 30, 2021, 12:37:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:34:29 PM
Pfizer is now much more common around here. They basically stopped giving people Moderna because it's easier to store, and they want to send that out to the smaller towns around the state–saving the difficult-to-store one for a larger city that can actually accommodate it better.
I forgot to mention scheduling when I got my first shot last week. Afterwards, I could either (a) go up to a person and have him or her help me schedule my next appointment, (b) scan a QR code and proceed from there, or (c) just go home and schedule my next shot from the convenience of my home computer. That's what I'll be doing. But I haven't done so yet, because I'd rather wait and make sure I don't come down with any COVID symptoms and then have to wait three months or whatever.
I didn't even really get a choice. When I got my first shot, the nurse just said "OK. Then you come back on the 14th at the same time to get your second," which was fine with me.
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:34:29 PMQuote from: 1 on March 29, 2021, 01:40:47 PM
The people who think masks don't help are also the ones who don't want to get vaccinated, especially if conspiracy theories are involved.
Really? The people I know who think masks don't help simply think most masks are ineffective at preventing the spread.
I don't know that I know anyone that thinks "masks don't help". I know people who won't wear masks because they think Covid is a hoax or "not that bad".
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 30, 2021, 12:46:07 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 30, 2021, 12:46:07 PM
My doctor's office had me sign up for the second appointment as part of the process for scheduling the first appointment. Made sense to me to do it that way instead of waiting a few weeks to be offered a time, and I liked having the advance notice because I could in turn put it on the office calendar so nobody can say I didn't give advance notice.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: GaryV on March 30, 2021, 12:46:52 PM
Post by: GaryV on March 30, 2021, 12:46:52 PM
My wife got hers at a pharmacy. I searched their sign-up website early morning to find her an appointment - then had to wake her up so she could finish the registration.
When she got the first shot, they told her that she'd get an email or text about the 2nd. Turns out it was the same day of the week and same time. Really? The computer at the store couldn't have done that? Ah well.
When she got the first shot, they told her that she'd get an email or text about the 2nd. Turns out it was the same day of the week and same time. Really? The computer at the store couldn't have done that? Ah well.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
As for upcoming mandates, here's how it's playing out in my neck of the woods:
Previously, the state of Kansas issued a statewide public health order that imposed face mask and physical distancing requirements. It did not apply to counties that developed their own public health order. That is, counties could opt out, but only by custom-making their own order instead. The effective end date of the state order was to be at the end of March 2021 or when the state of emergency was lifted, whichever came first. Sedgwick County (Wichita) created its own public health order, so that's what we've been under here ever since.
Recently, the state of Kansas made several changes. First of all, it extended the state of emergency into May, which means the public health order would be extended as well. But the state also voided any state-issued virus-related mandates, to be effective at the end of the month. As part of reworking the system of emergency response, the state opened up a path for citizens who have a grievance about how a county health order has affected them to file suit against the county–and that they must receive a hearing within 72 hours.
Sedgwick County immediately decided that, because the bar for who is an "aggrieved party" is so low, it is not willing to risk the court system being overrun with litigation. As such, Sedgwick County has rescinded its public health order. Contrary to popular belief, that merely left us all under the existing state public health order, which doesn't expire until tomorrow night.
The governor has already announced that she'll issue another public health order on April 1. However, one other change I didn't mention earlier is that the legislature now has the power to overturn any such order. The current legislature is not in favor of mask mandates and has already said they plan to overturn whatever order she issues.
Wichita's mayor would also like to pass a city order, but there likewise don't seem to be enough members of city council on the mayor's side for that to happen.
With all this said, then, it's likely that my city and county will be mandate-free starting Thursday morning–but due mainly to political reasons, rather than the steep downward trend in cases here.
In contrast, however, I believe Johnson County (KC suburbs) has already drafted a new public health order. I don't know if they aren't worried about the potential for litigation, or if they're just digging their heels in, or what. We'll see what happens.
Who was it that said the end of mandates would be a haphazard, chaotic thing? I'd say you were right.
Previously, the state of Kansas issued a statewide public health order that imposed face mask and physical distancing requirements. It did not apply to counties that developed their own public health order. That is, counties could opt out, but only by custom-making their own order instead. The effective end date of the state order was to be at the end of March 2021 or when the state of emergency was lifted, whichever came first. Sedgwick County (Wichita) created its own public health order, so that's what we've been under here ever since.
Recently, the state of Kansas made several changes. First of all, it extended the state of emergency into May, which means the public health order would be extended as well. But the state also voided any state-issued virus-related mandates, to be effective at the end of the month. As part of reworking the system of emergency response, the state opened up a path for citizens who have a grievance about how a county health order has affected them to file suit against the county–and that they must receive a hearing within 72 hours.
Sedgwick County immediately decided that, because the bar for who is an "aggrieved party" is so low, it is not willing to risk the court system being overrun with litigation. As such, Sedgwick County has rescinded its public health order. Contrary to popular belief, that merely left us all under the existing state public health order, which doesn't expire until tomorrow night.
The governor has already announced that she'll issue another public health order on April 1. However, one other change I didn't mention earlier is that the legislature now has the power to overturn any such order. The current legislature is not in favor of mask mandates and has already said they plan to overturn whatever order she issues.
Wichita's mayor would also like to pass a city order, but there likewise don't seem to be enough members of city council on the mayor's side for that to happen.
With all this said, then, it's likely that my city and county will be mandate-free starting Thursday morning–but due mainly to political reasons, rather than the steep downward trend in cases here.
In contrast, however, I believe Johnson County (KC suburbs) has already drafted a new public health order. I don't know if they aren't worried about the potential for litigation, or if they're just digging their heels in, or what. We'll see what happens.
Who was it that said the end of mandates would be a haphazard, chaotic thing? I'd say you were right.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:59:04 PM
Post by: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:59:04 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 30, 2021, 12:46:07 PM
My doctor's office had me sign up for the second appointment as part of the process for scheduling the first appointment. Made sense to me to do it that way instead of waiting a few weeks to be offered a time, and I liked having the advance notice because I could in turn put it on the office calendar so nobody can say I didn't give advance notice.
Yeah, I wouldn't have wanted that, because I was in the same room as a person with COVID for about 1½ hours on Wednesday. Even though I was not a close contact (more than six feet away and not facing each other and half protected by plexiglass), I was still concerned about getting my first shot. I wasn't concerned about being contagious yet (only two days later), but I was worried that the virus, if I had it, had begun to replicate in my body enough that the first shot wouldn't do me any good. Therefore, if I ended up coming down with COVID, then I would have been under the CDC recommendation to wait three more months before getting my second shot.
I still have zero symptoms, though, and statistically they would have shown up by today. My wife is back to kissing me again, as of yesterday. But I'll still wait until 14 days have passed before scheduling my next shot. Just in case.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on March 30, 2021, 02:37:25 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on March 30, 2021, 02:37:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:50:13 PMWichita's mayor would also like to pass a city order, but there likewise don't seem to be enough members of city council on the mayor's side for that to happen.
With all this said, then, it's likely that my city and county will be mandate-free starting Thursday morning–but due mainly to political reasons, rather than the steep downward trend in cases here.
I think the swing vote on a mask mandate is likely to be Becky Tuttle (District 2, far northeast Wichita). I expect my council member, Cindy Claycomb (District 6, central/near northwest) to support it, as well as Brandon Johnson (District 1, near northeast) and the mayor. The City Council is formally nonpartisan, but Johnson and Whipple are Democrats, Claycomb is unaffiliated, and most if not all of the rest--Jared Cerullo (newly appointed to District 3, southeast), Jeff Blubaugh (District 4, southwest), and Bryan Frye (District 5, far northwest)--are Republicans. (I don't know Tuttle's affiliation, if she has one.)
There has been some spread among the council members in terms of whether they rely on remote-only or hybrid formats for their district advisory board meetings, and I think that is probably indicative of their respective attitudes toward mask mandates. Claycomb has been remote-only all the way, while I think Frye has done hybrid meetings.
The City Council normally meets on Tuesdays but is not doing so today. I expect a mask ordinance to appear on the agenda for the April 6 meeting if the legislature follows through on its threat to overturn a renewed statewide mask mandate.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on March 30, 2021, 08:49:48 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on March 30, 2021, 08:49:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 12:59:04 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on March 30, 2021, 12:46:07 PM
My doctor's office had me sign up for the second appointment as part of the process for scheduling the first appointment. Made sense to me to do it that way instead of waiting a few weeks to be offered a time, and I liked having the advance notice because I could in turn put it on the office calendar so nobody can say I didn't give advance notice.
Yeah, I wouldn't have wanted that, because I was in the same room as a person with COVID for about 1½ hours on Wednesday. Even though I was not a close contact (more than six feet away and not facing each other and half protected by plexiglass), I was still concerned about getting my first shot. I wasn't concerned about being contagious yet (only two days later), but I was worried that the virus, if I had it, had begun to replicate in my body enough that the first shot wouldn't do me any good. Therefore, if I ended up coming down with COVID, then I would have been under the CDC recommendation to wait three more months before getting my second shot.
I still have zero symptoms, though, and statistically they would have shown up by today. My wife is back to kissing me again, as of yesterday. But I'll still wait until 14 days have passed before scheduling my next shot. Just in case.
If I wound up in that situation, I'd simply cancel the second appointment.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US71 on March 30, 2021, 09:15:33 PM
Post by: US71 on March 30, 2021, 09:15:33 PM
I received a text message today to call my doctor about getting the vaccine. After playing ring around the rosie trying to find someone talk to, I was told all the appointments had been taken, but they MIGHT have some more in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on March 30, 2021, 09:22:42 PM
Post by: cl94 on March 30, 2021, 09:22:42 PM
NY announced yesterday that open season begins next Tuesday.
Given how many appointments have been available in Oneonta, Plattsburgh, and Potsdam every day, there's a nonzero chance I'll be able to get my first jab before the end of next week. I might need to drive a little bit to make it happen, but that's just an excuse to do some roadgeeking along the way.
Given how many appointments have been available in Oneonta, Plattsburgh, and Potsdam every day, there's a nonzero chance I'll be able to get my first jab before the end of next week. I might need to drive a little bit to make it happen, but that's just an excuse to do some roadgeeking along the way.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on March 30, 2021, 09:35:54 PM
Post by: hbelkins on March 30, 2021, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: US71 on March 30, 2021, 09:15:33 PM
I received a text message today to call my doctor about getting the vaccine. After playing ring around the rosie trying to find someone talk to, I was told all the appointments had been taken, but they MIGHT have some more in a few weeks.
If your community is like mine, there are a number of local government agencies and medical providers with public Facebook pages. It's fairly common for me to see a Facebook post in the early afternoon that the local Walgreen's will have shots available that day and the vaccine will need to be tossed if it's not used today. I'll bet it happens at least twice a week. If you're not doing anything and see such a post, you can often luck into a shot.
I've been reading that Kentucky has lots of vaccine appointments available that are going unused, and Louisville has opened up its vaccination to Indiana residents.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on March 31, 2021, 05:27:00 AM
Post by: SSOWorld on March 31, 2021, 05:27:00 AM
I've gotten my first jab last week... in Iowa (helps that I'm 20 minutes away from the state lines of IL and IA). Jab 2 was scheduled alongside jab 1.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on March 31, 2021, 02:28:25 PM
Post by: vdeane on March 31, 2021, 02:28:25 PM
Quote from: cl94 on March 30, 2021, 09:22:42 PMBeing flexible certainly seems to help. I ended up scheduling mine for Phizer (which is what nearly all the state-run sites give; not sure what happened to Moderna) at SUNY Oneonta at the end of next month, though I could have gotten more sooner if I wasn't trying to fit it (drive time included) around meetings and whatnot on my calendar (there was even one left for Monday). Plattsburgh or Potsdam I'd be more willing to drive to for the J&J vaccine, but having to go back to the same place for the second dose makes things more complicated.
NY announced yesterday that open season begins next Tuesday.
Given how many appointments have been available in Oneonta, Plattsburgh, and Potsdam every day, there's a nonzero chance I'll be able to get my first jab before the end of next week. I might need to drive a little bit to make it happen, but that's just an excuse to do some roadgeeking along the way.
I'll probably check the pharmacy sites and see if I can fit something in sooner.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: gonealookin on March 31, 2021, 09:59:19 PM
Post by: gonealookin on March 31, 2021, 09:59:19 PM
With Young People Spring Break just about wrapped up, I'm going on Geezer Spring Break to Miami next week. The long-scheduled flight down there is on Tuesday and my first day of eligibility is Monday, so no real opportunity to even get the first dose before the trip.
The young'uns apparently left a little spike in Covid rates in south Florida. Don't know exactly what Miami-Dade's current mask rules are but I'll definitely continue my CA/NV practice which is mask at all times in shared space indoors except when eating, and if a restaurant or bar looks more crowded than my comfort level I'll go elsewhere.
While I'll be happy to leave the regular mask wearing behind, there are some situations where I may continue use indefinitely. It used to be that as I was boarding an airplane I'd see that one person wearing a mask and I'd give it the :rolleyes: but now I'm inclined to continue with that. I haven't had so much as a cold or sore throat for the last year, knock on wood, and I've enjoyed that. OTOH, standing shoulder-to-shoulder and dancing at a concert involves physical activity, and I'll take the risk there.
The young'uns apparently left a little spike in Covid rates in south Florida. Don't know exactly what Miami-Dade's current mask rules are but I'll definitely continue my CA/NV practice which is mask at all times in shared space indoors except when eating, and if a restaurant or bar looks more crowded than my comfort level I'll go elsewhere.
While I'll be happy to leave the regular mask wearing behind, there are some situations where I may continue use indefinitely. It used to be that as I was boarding an airplane I'd see that one person wearing a mask and I'd give it the :rolleyes: but now I'm inclined to continue with that. I haven't had so much as a cold or sore throat for the last year, knock on wood, and I've enjoyed that. OTOH, standing shoulder-to-shoulder and dancing at a concert involves physical activity, and I'll take the risk there.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 31, 2021, 10:00:00 PM
Post by: interstatefan990 on March 31, 2021, 10:00:00 PM
15 Million Doses of Johnson & Johnson Vaccine Ruined By Ingredient Mix-Up:
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/31/johnson-johnson-vaccine-15-million-ruined-478776
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/31/johnson-johnson-vaccine-15-million-ruined-478776
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: LM117 on March 31, 2021, 10:43:28 PM
Post by: LM117 on March 31, 2021, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 31, 2021, 10:00:00 PM
15 Million Doses of Johnson & Johnson Vaccine Ruined By Ingredient Mix-Up:
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/31/johnson-johnson-vaccine-15-million-ruined-478776
Oof.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on March 31, 2021, 11:01:34 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on March 31, 2021, 11:01:34 PM
Went to get my second Pfizer dose today. The site in Ada that I got my first dose at wasn't operating three weeks after (why?), so this time I went to Eufaula, at the McIntosh County Health Department. This was a much less formal affair–sign in with a nurse, sit down in the waiting room, fill out a questionnaire, then the nurse collected the paperwork and administered the shot right there in the waiting room.
So far, only side effects are a sore arm, clinching OK-84, and needing to figure out what my new entry for the lowest route number I haven't been on is.
So far, only side effects are a sore arm, clinching OK-84, and needing to figure out what my new entry for the lowest route number I haven't been on is.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 01, 2021, 01:44:39 AM
Post by: US 89 on April 01, 2021, 01:44:39 AM
I finally got an appointment for my first dose of Pfizer next Monday.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 01, 2021, 01:47:18 AM
Post by: Duke87 on April 01, 2021, 01:47:18 AM
Well I no longer have an accurate poll response available since there isn't an option for "I'm eligible and want it but have not been able to get an appointment yet".
Gotta love Connecticut going ahead and deciding they were going to open up eligibility to everyone ages 16 and up when, even right after midnight, absolutely everything is already booked completely solid (presumably by people who were already eligible prior to midnight). Methinks they jumped the gun on this and tried to go open season too soon. Traffic metering failure right there.
Upshot is every website I looked on functioned smoothly so nothing has crashed this time! (yet, anyway)
09:45 Update: state website, CVS website, and local hospital website all still functional, no crashing. Still no available appointments, however.
Gotta love Connecticut going ahead and deciding they were going to open up eligibility to everyone ages 16 and up when, even right after midnight, absolutely everything is already booked completely solid (presumably by people who were already eligible prior to midnight). Methinks they jumped the gun on this and tried to go open season too soon. Traffic metering failure right there.
Upshot is every website I looked on functioned smoothly so nothing has crashed this time! (yet, anyway)
09:45 Update: state website, CVS website, and local hospital website all still functional, no crashing. Still no available appointments, however.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Buck87 on April 01, 2021, 09:32:28 AM
Post by: Buck87 on April 01, 2021, 09:32:28 AM
Got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine yesterday. Went smooth and no ill effects.
Ohio's age based eligibility has been stairstepping down every few weeks, and Monday the 29th was when it got to everyone 16 and older (1.5 weeks after it had reached everyone 40 and over.) My attempts to find an available appointment through the state website were unsuccessful, but then I tried CVS and was able to find an opening within a half hour drive, and was also able to schedule both appointments at once. My 2nd shot is April 21.
LM-Q620
Ohio's age based eligibility has been stairstepping down every few weeks, and Monday the 29th was when it got to everyone 16 and older (1.5 weeks after it had reached everyone 40 and over.) My attempts to find an available appointment through the state website were unsuccessful, but then I tried CVS and was able to find an opening within a half hour drive, and was also able to schedule both appointments at once. My 2nd shot is April 21.
LM-Q620
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 01, 2021, 11:34:45 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 01, 2021, 11:34:45 AM
About twelve hours after getting the second shot, some covid-like symptoms started to set in, which made it difficult to sleep. I was running a temperature of 100.0° when I went to bed, and at one point randomly started coughing so hard that I was afraid I was going to throw up.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: doorknob60 on April 01, 2021, 11:58:21 AM
Post by: doorknob60 on April 01, 2021, 11:58:21 AM
Got my first shot of Pfizer on Tuesday. Second shot is 4 weeks from then, due to a quirk in Walgreens online scheduling system (https://www.wbtv.com/2021/03/29/some-people-nc-concerned-walgreens-is-scheduling-st-nd-pfizer-doses-weeks-apart/), but I called the pharmacy and they said 4 weeks is still fine (even though 3 weeks is the usual recommendation for Pfizer). Barely any side effects, arm soreness is barely noticeable, probably less than a flu shot for me. My wife's is more sore but nothing problematic. I have been a bit more tired, but if I hadn't got the shot, I wouldn't think twice about it (it's nothing out of the ordinary). If anything it's made it easier to fall asleep and get a full 8 hours haha.
For what it's worth, I did catch Covid in December (a mild case, though my sense of taste and smell have still not recovered to 100%).
For what it's worth, I did catch Covid in December (a mild case, though my sense of taste and smell have still not recovered to 100%).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:28:05 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't like having a non-zero percent chance of killing people by avoiding doing something so simple.
Be sure to let us know when you've reached a zero chance of killing someone by airborne contagious disease, and then we can all check to see if Hell froze over. :rolleyes:
Does anyone know if there's a maximum recommended interval between first and second doses?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:29:18 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:29:18 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 01, 2021, 11:34:45 AM
About twelve hours after getting the second shot, some covid-like symptoms started to set in, which made it difficult to sleep. I was running a temperature of 100.0° when I went to bed, and at one point randomly started coughing so hard that I was afraid I was going to throw up.
My wife gets her second shot Saturday afternoon, and she's not exactly happy at the thought of being sick on Easter from it–especially considering Easter got canceled last year.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 01, 2021, 01:31:09 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 01, 2021, 01:31:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:28:05 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't like having a non-zero percent chance of killing people by avoiding doing something so simple.
Be sure to let us know when you've reached a zero chance of killing someone by airborne contagious disease, and then we can all check to see if Hell froze over. :rolleyes:
Does anyone know if there's a maximum recommended interval between first and second doses?
If we didn't have the urgency of a pandemic that was killing hundreds of thousands, there would have been a variety of clinical trials testing the vaccine under different conditions, such as lengthening the time before the second dose. Of course, due to the time crunch, they only had the one set of trials, so we don't really know how much effectiveness decreases as the interval increases.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 01, 2021, 02:57:27 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 01, 2021, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:28:05 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't like having a non-zero percent chance of killing people by avoiding doing something so simple.
Be sure to let us know when you've reached a zero chance of killing someone by airborne contagious disease, and then we can all check to see if Hell froze over. :rolleyes:
Does anyone know if there's a maximum recommended interval between first and second doses?
I mean, I get it that shit happens, but a little bit of sacrifice on my end for this one massive pandemic doesn't seem like a large price to pay. <shrug>
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 01, 2021, 03:00:29 PM
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 01, 2021, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:28:05 PM
Does anyone know if there's a maximum recommended interval between first and second doses?
I think I remember Pfizer or Moderna saying that in emergency situations where there is short supply, an interval of up to six weeks between the first and second dose can be used.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 01, 2021, 03:05:11 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 01, 2021, 03:05:11 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 01, 2021, 01:31:09 PMWe may not know this for our vaccines, but we can extrapolate from China's. Their vaccine was originally tested with a one month gap and was only 50% effective. Then they tried just 2-3 weeks and it increased - I think to somewhere in the 60-75% range. As such, I wouldn't recommend waiting for that second dose.Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:28:05 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't like having a non-zero percent chance of killing people by avoiding doing something so simple.
Be sure to let us know when you've reached a zero chance of killing someone by airborne contagious disease, and then we can all check to see if Hell froze over. :rolleyes:
Does anyone know if there's a maximum recommended interval between first and second doses?
If we didn't have the urgency of a pandemic that was killing hundreds of thousands, there would have been a variety of clinical trials testing the vaccine under different conditions, such as lengthening the time before the second dose. Of course, due to the time crunch, they only had the one set of trials, so we don't really know how much effectiveness decreases as the interval increases.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
Thanks, guys. I suppose that, since I still have no symptoms, and because Kansas opened the vaccine up to pretty much everyone, I might as well schedule my second shot soon.
Oh, I know what you meant. But "having a non-zero percent chance" is not an achievable goal. It's like saying "one traffic fatality is too many". No, actually, one traffic fatality would be freakin awesome. You've never had a zero chance of killing someone without a mask, you never will, so don't kid yourself into thinking that's your goal. There will be an eventual line you'll cross and ditch the mask, and that line is going to be rather fuzzy and arbitrarily chosen–just like for the rest of us.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 01, 2021, 02:57:27 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 01:28:05 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't like having a non-zero percent chance of killing people by avoiding doing something so simple.
Be sure to let us know when you've reached a zero chance of killing someone by airborne contagious disease, and then we can all check to see if Hell froze over. :rolleyes:
I mean, I get it that shit happens, but a little bit of sacrifice on my end for this one massive pandemic doesn't seem like a large price to pay. <shrug>
Oh, I know what you meant. But "having a non-zero percent chance" is not an achievable goal. It's like saying "one traffic fatality is too many". No, actually, one traffic fatality would be freakin awesome. You've never had a zero chance of killing someone without a mask, you never will, so don't kid yourself into thinking that's your goal. There will be an eventual line you'll cross and ditch the mask, and that line is going to be rather fuzzy and arbitrarily chosen–just like for the rest of us.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:20:45 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:20:45 PM
I was sicker with the first dose than the second with Pfizer (got second dose last Sunday). No real side effects from second dose. Wife got second dose today.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 04:29:24 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:20:45 PM
I was sicker with the first dose than the second with Pfizer (got second dose last Sunday). No real side effects from second dose.
I hear that's more rare. I only recall one or two other members here saying the same, for example (might be forgetting some).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: GaryV on April 01, 2021, 04:31:19 PM
Post by: GaryV on April 01, 2021, 04:31:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:20:45 PM
I was sicker with the first dose than the second with Pfizer (got second dose last Sunday). No real side effects from second dose. Wife got second dose today.
That could mean that you previously had a case of Covid, perhaps without symptoms. Your body remembered, and fought off the new "invaders". I have heard some people that had it with more severe reactions to the first shot; others that had it had minimal reactions.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:31:57 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:31:57 PM
My daughter became eligible in CT today and got an appointment for tomorrow. We'll see what happens with the second appointment.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 01, 2021, 07:03:53 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 01, 2021, 07:03:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:31:57 PM
My daughter became eligible in CT today and got an appointment for tomorrow. We'll see what happens with the second appointment.
She was apparently one of 100,000 people to successfully do so today. (https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/coronavirus/article/Amid-onslaught-CT-books-100-000-COVID-16070979.php)
Of course, that's 100,000 people who successfully made an appointment out of 1.3 million who just became eligible. I am still in the other 1.2 million. Might take a bit to get out of that backlog...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
Oh, I know what you meant. But "having a non-zero percent chance" is not an achievable goal. It's like saying "one traffic fatality is too many". No, actually, one traffic fatality would be freakin awesome. You've never had a zero chance of killing someone without a mask, you never will, so don't kid yourself into thinking that's your goal. There will be an eventual line you'll cross and ditch the mask, and that line is going to be rather fuzzy and arbitrarily chosen–just like for the rest of us.
But that's exactly the line that highway safety people recite: Even one death from a car wreck is too many. But deep down they know that zero fatalities is unachievable, so the phrase they use now is "toward zero deaths."
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 07:24:37 PM
Post by: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
Oh, I know what you meant. But "having a non-zero percent chance" is not an achievable goal. It's like saying "one traffic fatality is too many". No, actually, one traffic fatality would be freakin awesome. You've never had a zero chance of killing someone without a mask, you never will, so don't kid yourself into thinking that's your goal. There will be an eventual line you'll cross and ditch the mask, and that line is going to be rather fuzzy and arbitrarily chosen–just like for the rest of us.
But that's exactly the line that highway safety people recite: Even one death from a car wreck is too many. But deep down they know that zero fatalities is unachievable, so the phrase they use now is "toward zero deaths."
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
A Rasmussen poll (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/58_say_masks_should_be_required_until_everyone_is_vaccinated_against_covid_19) shows that 58% of people believe we should wear masks until everyone gets a vaccine. That was the wording. Not herd immunity, but 100%.
It takes a lot to overcome that ridiculous mindset.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 07:45:50 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 07:45:50 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 07:24:37 PMOh, the mask is such oppression. :DQuote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
Oh, I know what you meant. But "having a non-zero percent chance" is not an achievable goal. It's like saying "one traffic fatality is too many". No, actually, one traffic fatality would be freakin awesome. You've never had a zero chance of killing someone without a mask, you never will, so don't kid yourself into thinking that's your goal. There will be an eventual line you'll cross and ditch the mask, and that line is going to be rather fuzzy and arbitrarily chosen–just like for the rest of us.
But that's exactly the line that highway safety people recite: Even one death from a car wreck is too many. But deep down they know that zero fatalities is unachievable, so the phrase they use now is "toward zero deaths."
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
A Rasmussen poll (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/58_say_masks_should_be_required_until_everyone_is_vaccinated_against_covid_19) shows that 58% of people believe we should wear masks until everyone gets a vaccine. That was the wording. Not herd immunity, but 100%.
It takes a lot to overcome that ridiculous mindset.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on April 01, 2021, 07:46:21 PM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on April 01, 2021, 07:46:21 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 01, 2021, 07:03:53 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:31:57 PM
My daughter became eligible in CT today and got an appointment for tomorrow. We'll see what happens with the second appointment.
She was apparently one of 100,000 people to successfully do so today. (https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/coronavirus/article/Amid-onslaught-CT-books-100-000-COVID-16070979.php)
Of course, that's 100,000 people who successfully made an appointment out of 1.3 million who just became eligible. I am still in the other 1.2 million. Might take a bit to get out of that backlog...
FWIW, I was in the prior wave. 80k appointments were made that first weekend.
100k appointments in less than a day is an improvement.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on April 01, 2021, 07:52:48 PM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on April 01, 2021, 07:52:48 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 07:24:37 PMA Rasmussen poll (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/58_say_masks_should_be_required_until_everyone_is_vaccinated_against_covid_19) shows that 58% of people believe we should wear masks until everyone gets a vaccine. That was the wording. Not herd immunity, but 100%.
It takes a lot to overcome that ridiculous mindset.
I'm actually in the minority of folks who would like to see the masks become a permanent part of life. There are a few too many folks unwilling to self-isolate when they have "just a cold" or "a little flu", and I hate being exposed to their germs.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on April 01, 2021, 08:31:50 PM
Post by: bm7 on April 01, 2021, 08:31:50 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 07:24:37 PMWell we'll never have 100% of people with the vaccine even if it was mandatory to get it, so I guess we should just wear them forever according to them...Quote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 04:14:18 PM
Oh, I know what you meant. But "having a non-zero percent chance" is not an achievable goal. It's like saying "one traffic fatality is too many". No, actually, one traffic fatality would be freakin awesome. You've never had a zero chance of killing someone without a mask, you never will, so don't kid yourself into thinking that's your goal. There will be an eventual line you'll cross and ditch the mask, and that line is going to be rather fuzzy and arbitrarily chosen–just like for the rest of us.
But that's exactly the line that highway safety people recite: Even one death from a car wreck is too many. But deep down they know that zero fatalities is unachievable, so the phrase they use now is "toward zero deaths."
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
A Rasmussen poll (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/58_say_masks_should_be_required_until_everyone_is_vaccinated_against_covid_19) shows that 58% of people believe we should wear masks until everyone gets a vaccine. That was the wording. Not herd immunity, but 100%.
It takes a lot to overcome that ridiculous mindset.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 01, 2021, 09:13:46 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 01, 2021, 09:13:46 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 01, 2021, 08:31:50 PMQuote from: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 07:24:37 PMWell we'll never have 100% of people with the vaccine even if it was mandatory to get it, so I guess we should just wear them forever according to them...
A Rasmussen poll (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/58_say_masks_should_be_required_until_everyone_is_vaccinated_against_covid_19) shows that 58% of people believe we should wear masks until everyone gets a vaccine. That was the wording. Not herd immunity, but 100%.
It takes a lot to overcome that ridiculous mindset.
I think you're interpreting what the poll says a bit too literally. Most people are not hyper-analytical and will answer yes to that question if their opinion is "masks until herd immunity", because they'll presume without examining it too closely that that was the general intent of the question, or will think "yes" better resembles their opinion than "no", which might imply that they think masks can be ditched already or were never necessary.
Really, this is a structural flaw with polling in general. Depending on how you word your questions you can skew the results a lot.
Or, you know...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 01, 2021, 09:16:51 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 01, 2021, 09:16:51 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on April 01, 2021, 07:52:48 PMQuote from: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 07:24:37 PMA Rasmussen poll (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/58_say_masks_should_be_required_until_everyone_is_vaccinated_against_covid_19) shows that 58% of people believe we should wear masks until everyone gets a vaccine. That was the wording. Not herd immunity, but 100%.
It takes a lot to overcome that ridiculous mindset.
I'm actually in the minority of folks who would like to see the masks become a permanent part of life. There are a few too many folks unwilling to self-isolate when they have "just a cold" or "a little flu", and I hate being exposed to their germs.
Yeah, I think I'm going to keep my covid masks around and wear them when I have a cold from now on, simply as a courtesy to everyone else.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 10:22:06 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PM
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
Do the places you go not have their own mask policies, apart from state and local public health orders? I mean, I'm no longer under any mask order where I live, but the grocery stores still require customers to wear them.
Also, allow me to thank everyone for keeping the conversation civil this time around. This thread veers every so often away from the vaccination status topic, but it never gets out of hand the way the original coronavirus thread did on every other page of its existence.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 02, 2021, 01:38:20 AM
Post by: Duke87 on April 02, 2021, 01:38:20 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 10:22:06 PMQuote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PMDo the places you go not have their own mask policies, apart from state and local public health orders? I mean, I'm no longer under any mask order where I live, but the grocery stores still require customers to wear them.
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
Well, do they actually enforce this though? I've lost count of how many businesses I've walked into that have a sign on the door saying masks are required but inside the majority of customers and sometimes even staff members aren't wearing one. Tons of people ignore the signs and in the majority of the country no one will confront you for doing so.
That said, once you reach a critical mass of mask compliance you easily get to 100% because it simply becomes social expectation. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen an unmasked customer inside of a store around here since last May.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 02, 2021, 07:28:01 AM
Post by: Rothman on April 02, 2021, 07:28:01 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 02, 2021, 01:38:20 AMSomething seems contradictory about this post...Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 10:22:06 PMQuote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PMDo the places you go not have their own mask policies, apart from state and local public health orders? I mean, I'm no longer under any mask order where I live, but the grocery stores still require customers to wear them.
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
Well, do they actually enforce this though? I've lost count of how many businesses I've walked into that have a sign on the door saying masks are required but inside the majority of customers and sometimes even staff members aren't wearing one. Tons of people ignore the signs and in the majority of the country no one will confront you for doing so.
That said, once you reach a critical mass of mask compliance you easily get to 100% because it simply becomes social expectation. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen an unmasked customer inside of a store around here since last May.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 02, 2021, 07:29:37 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 02, 2021, 07:29:37 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 02, 2021, 07:28:01 AMQuote from: Duke87 on April 02, 2021, 01:38:20 AMSomething seems contradictory about this post...Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 10:22:06 PMQuote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PMDo the places you go not have their own mask policies, apart from state and local public health orders? I mean, I'm no longer under any mask order where I live, but the grocery stores still require customers to wear them.
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
Well, do they actually enforce this though? I've lost count of how many businesses I've walked into that have a sign on the door saying masks are required but inside the majority of customers and sometimes even staff members aren't wearing one. Tons of people ignore the signs and in the majority of the country no one will confront you for doing so.
That said, once you reach a critical mass of mask compliance you easily get to 100% because it simply becomes social expectation. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen an unmasked customer inside of a store around here since last May.
I interpreted it as everyone wearing a mask at home (i.e. Connecticut), but not everywhere in his travels.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 07:55:56 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 07:55:56 AM
It can also vary a lot by city or even the clientele that individual stores cater to. Here in Norman, pretty much everyone wears a mask, but anecdotal Internet postings from the adjoining city of Moore make it seem like it's 2019 up there. Meanwhile, in Oklahoma City, Internet postings make it seem as if mask wearing is common in places like grocery stores but not in places like home-improvement stores.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on April 02, 2021, 08:30:13 AM
Post by: bandit957 on April 02, 2021, 08:30:13 AM
A convenience store near me has signs on the door requiring masks, but a clerk actually told me they don't enforce it. When I was in there that day, not a single customer or employee was wearing one.
Compliance is much higher but not 100% at the Kroger in Bellevue, which is mostly a blue-collar city. But I'm told that compliance is almost 100% at the Kroger stores in Cold Spring, a much more affluent suburb. I don't think Kroger really enforces it either, but they do play that annoying announcement once every few minutes.
Also, I'm told that masks are rare in very small towns just about anywhere in America - unless it's a ski resort town.
Compliance is much higher but not 100% at the Kroger in Bellevue, which is mostly a blue-collar city. But I'm told that compliance is almost 100% at the Kroger stores in Cold Spring, a much more affluent suburb. I don't think Kroger really enforces it either, but they do play that annoying announcement once every few minutes.
Also, I'm told that masks are rare in very small towns just about anywhere in America - unless it's a ski resort town.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 02, 2021, 08:35:41 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 02, 2021, 08:35:41 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 01, 2021, 09:16:51 PMQuote from: MikeTheActuary on April 01, 2021, 07:52:48 PMQuote from: SectorZ on April 01, 2021, 07:24:37 PMA Rasmussen poll (https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/coronavirus/58_say_masks_should_be_required_until_everyone_is_vaccinated_against_covid_19) shows that 58% of people believe we should wear masks until everyone gets a vaccine. That was the wording. Not herd immunity, but 100%.
It takes a lot to overcome that ridiculous mindset.
I'm actually in the minority of folks who would like to see the masks become a permanent part of life. There are a few too many folks unwilling to self-isolate when they have "just a cold" or "a little flu", and I hate being exposed to their germs.
Yeah, I think I'm going to keep my covid masks around and wear them when I have a cold from now on, simply as a courtesy to everyone else.
I think that's an excellent idea. I'll do the same.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 02, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
Post by: Duke87 on April 02, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 02, 2021, 07:29:37 AM
I interpreted it as everyone wearing a mask at home (i.e. Connecticut), but not everywhere in his travels.
That is the correct interpretation.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 12:41:27 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 12:41:27 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 02, 2021, 01:38:20 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 01, 2021, 10:22:06 PMQuote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 07:11:59 PM
As for mask wearing, mine is coming off just as soon as the government lifts its restrictions. I've already been "cheating" and not wearing one if I'm the only one going in to the post office to check the mail, or by pulling it down off my nose if my glasses are fogging up or it's too hot to breathe comfortably.
Do the places you go not have their own mask policies, apart from state and local public health orders? I mean, I'm no longer under any mask order where I live, but the grocery stores still require customers to wear them.
Well, do they actually enforce this though? I've lost count of how many businesses I've walked into that have a sign on the door saying masks are required but inside the majority of customers and sometimes even staff members aren't wearing one. Tons of people ignore the signs and in the majority of the country no one will confront you for doing so.
But my point is that the rescission of any state or local ordinance won't necessarily change any of that. That is, the government lifting its restrictions won't necessarily make stores lift their policies, nor will it suddenly prompt stores to stop enforcing their policies, nor will it prompt people to stop confronting you about it. I expect a lot of that to remain the same afterward as beforehand. Exceptions will surely apply, of course, but, at the places I go, masks are still required regardless of government action. Even at the office, nothing really changed: only about a fourth of the employees were wearing their masks while there was still both a public health order and a company policy, and for the most part the same people are still wearing their masks and the same people are not after both the public health order and the company policy were voided.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 07:55:56 AM
Meanwhile, in Oklahoma City, Internet postings make it seem as if mask wearing is common in places like grocery stores but not in places like home-improvement stores.
That's been my experience this whole time here in Wichita.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 02, 2021, 12:45:37 PM
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 02, 2021, 12:45:37 PM
I got the initial dose of Pfizer a week & a half ago at a state-run, drive-thru mass vaccination site 1.5 hours away, and I return for round 2 in another week and a half. Felt fatigued and achy the day after the first shot (plus the arm soreness for a few days), so we'll see how round 2 goes. The site I went to was incredibly efficient - set up around the parking lot of a small baseball stadium, with large tents you drive thru where the actual shot is given (followed by parking for the observation period).
Interestingly, within the past couple days I've started to notice that the few lingering things that still smell/taste weird (I had a mild case back in November) are finally starting to return to normal. For instance, I recall posting a while ago about how honey-nut cheerios started tasting funky to me, but now I'm having some as I type this and it tastes closer to how I remember it. Not sure if this is related to getting the initial dose or just pure coincidence (I'm almost 5 months removed now, and there seems to be a wide range on when people's full sense of smell & taste returns).
Interestingly, within the past couple days I've started to notice that the few lingering things that still smell/taste weird (I had a mild case back in November) are finally starting to return to normal. For instance, I recall posting a while ago about how honey-nut cheerios started tasting funky to me, but now I'm having some as I type this and it tastes closer to how I remember it. Not sure if this is related to getting the initial dose or just pure coincidence (I'm almost 5 months removed now, and there seems to be a wide range on when people's full sense of smell & taste returns).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on April 02, 2021, 01:05:09 PM
Post by: bandit957 on April 02, 2021, 01:05:09 PM
I just got my second dose of Pfizer.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 01:17:37 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 01:17:37 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 02, 2021, 12:45:37 PM
Interestingly, within the past couple days I've started to notice that the few lingering things that still smell/taste weird (I had a mild case back in November) are finally starting to return to normal. For instance, I recall posting a while ago about how honey-nut cheerios started tasting funky to me, but now I'm having some as I type this and it tastes closer to how I remember it. Not sure if this is related to getting the initial dose or just pure coincidence (I'm almost 5 months removed now, and there seems to be a wide range on when people's full sense of smell & taste returns).
Have you heard of Scentsy? They make wickless candles–pot warmers that heat scented wax by means of a light bulb or other heating element. Anyway, the CEO of the company got COVID back in June or July, and he still has "COVID nose". He said 20% of the scents his company makes smell awful to him now. Rather ironic, considering the business he runs.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 02, 2021, 02:42:35 PM
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 02, 2021, 02:42:35 PM
^
I haven't heard of them, but thanks for sharing! With how different the smell/taste thing seems to be affecting everyone (and for how long), it's interesting to hear different stories.
(Another example: my fiancée has a colleague who had COVID around the same time as us in November, and she still can't smell a single thing 5 months later. As much as I've complained about wonky smell/taste, I can't imagine what that's like :wow:)
I haven't heard of them, but thanks for sharing! With how different the smell/taste thing seems to be affecting everyone (and for how long), it's interesting to hear different stories.
(Another example: my fiancée has a colleague who had COVID around the same time as us in November, and she still can't smell a single thing 5 months later. As much as I've complained about wonky smell/taste, I can't imagine what that's like :wow:)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 12:41:27 PM
But my point is that the rescission of any state or local ordinance won't necessarily change any of that. That is, the government lifting its restrictions won't necessarily make stores lift their policies, nor will it suddenly prompt stores to stop enforcing their policies, nor will it prompt people to stop confronting you about it.
I remember reading somewhere (can't remember whether it was someone interviewed for a news article or an Internet post) that the store the person worked at still nominally had a mask policy, but that the employees stopped enforcing it when the local mask mandate had been lifted, because "wear a mask or we'll call the cops" is a lot more effective than "wear a mask, it's company policy". When something is just company policy people want to argue with you because they think they have a chance at getting you to bend on it. "Wear a mask, if you have a problem with it tell the city council about it" is more likely to get the person to actually comply because it's clearer that arguing will do no good.
Of course, you're in the legal right to trespass a customer for not wearing a mask and call the police to enforce the trespass, but that has a bit too many steps to be able to shut down the line of thought that makes defiance seem like a good idea, and so they'll probably keep arguing.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 04:28:54 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 04:28:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 04:25:27 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 12:41:27 PM
But my point is that the rescission of any state or local ordinance won't necessarily change any of that. That is, the government lifting its restrictions won't necessarily make stores lift their policies, nor will it suddenly prompt stores to stop enforcing their policies, nor will it prompt people to stop confronting you about it.
I remember reading somewhere (can't remember whether it was someone interviewed for a news article or an Internet post) that the store the person worked at still nominally had a mask policy, but that the employees stopped enforcing it when the local mask mandate had been lifted, because "wear a mask or we'll call the cops" is a lot more effective than "wear a mask, it's company policy". When something is just company policy people want to argue with you because they think they have a chance at getting you to bend on it. "Wear a mask, if you have a problem with it tell the city council about it" is more likely to get the person to actually comply because it's clearer that arguing will do no good.
Of course, you're in the legal right to trespass a customer for not wearing a mask and call the police to enforce the trespass, but that has a bit too many steps to be able to shut down the line of thought that makes defiance seem like a good idea, and so they'll probably keep arguing.
Were businesses actually calling the cops beforehand, though?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 08:31:33 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 02, 2021, 04:28:54 PM
Were businesses actually calling the cops beforehand, though?
I don't know about how common it is, but it does happen. I know at the casino I worked at there were people that were belligerent enough when asked by staff to wear a mask properly that the police got involved. I also saw, via the Washington Post, a bodycam video of a Texas police officer arresting a woman who refused to wear a mask in a Bank of America branch.
Most businesses, however, tend to err on the side of "don't make a scene, just take their money" for bad customer behavior not having to do with mask-wearing, so a business with that sort of culture is likely to let people slide on mask-wearing rules too. Frontline employees hate it, but if they'll get into trouble for refusing someone service, there's not a lot they can do.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 02, 2021, 09:37:06 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 02, 2021, 09:37:06 PM
In an odd sort of way, I think losing your sense of taste might actually be a benefit of getting covid. If I couldn't taste anything, I'd probably eat a lot healthier than I do now.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 09:47:59 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 09:47:59 PM
48 hours after getting the second shot, I'm more or less back to feeling normal. The second shot was definitely worse than the first, and was somewhat close to having actual covid for me, but it, of course, lasted a lot shorter than the real deal.
That was my thought too, but it hasn't worked that way in practice, at least for me–it's not a total loss of taste, but a changing of it, sort of like you might get when you have a particularly bad cold. Random foods I used to like, such as peanut butter, are now gross.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 02, 2021, 09:37:06 PM
In an odd sort of way, I think losing your sense of taste might actually be a benefit of getting covid. If I couldn't taste anything, I'd probably eat a lot healthier than I do now.
That was my thought too, but it hasn't worked that way in practice, at least for me–it's not a total loss of taste, but a changing of it, sort of like you might get when you have a particularly bad cold. Random foods I used to like, such as peanut butter, are now gross.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 03, 2021, 09:45:05 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 03, 2021, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 09:47:59 PM
48 hours after getting the second shot, I'm more or less back to feeling normal. The second shot was definitely worse than the first, and was somewhat close to having actual covid for me, but it, of course, lasted a lot shorter than the real deal.Quote from: hbelkins on April 02, 2021, 09:37:06 PM
In an odd sort of way, I think losing your sense of taste might actually be a benefit of getting covid. If I couldn't taste anything, I'd probably eat a lot healthier than I do now.
That was my thought too, but it hasn't worked that way in practice, at least for me–it's not a total loss of taste, but a changing of it, sort of like you might get when you have a particularly bad cold. Random foods I used to like, such as peanut butter, are now gross.
A co-worker of mine was involved in an awful motorcycle wreck a few years ago. She didn't suffer a head injury, but something altered her sense of taste. Things she used to like she found tasted terrible.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 04, 2021, 08:55:21 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 04, 2021, 08:55:21 PM
I went outside and did some physical labor today, and I'm pleased to say that the lingering "covid lung" shortness of breath that I had from my bout with it in October is now gone. This has been described as a potential benefit of the vaccine that has been reported in other patients before, though doctors aren't quite sure why yet.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 06, 2021, 01:14:38 AM
Post by: Duke87 on April 06, 2021, 01:14:38 AM
Well after several days of fighting with CT's open season stampede and getting nowhere, I finally have an appointment to receive my first shot on... May 4th. Man that's brutal.
But at least I have a spot locked in so that's now the worst case.
But at least I have a spot locked in so that's now the worst case.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 06, 2021, 01:49:57 AM
Post by: US 89 on April 06, 2021, 01:49:57 AM
I finally got my first dose of Pfizer today. Other than some minor soreness at the injection site itself, no real side effects so far. We’ll see how the next day or two goes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 08:33:40 AM
Post by: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 08:33:40 AM
Finally eligible in New York today. Scheduled a first dose appointment for Thursday morning up in Plattsburgh. If I had time today, I could have gotten my first dose this afternoon.
I'm using this as an excuse to revisit some bridges, etc. up that way, because I haven't been to the North Country in a couple years.
I'm using this as an excuse to revisit some bridges, etc. up that way, because I haven't been to the North Country in a couple years.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on April 06, 2021, 08:47:59 AM
Post by: bandit957 on April 06, 2021, 08:47:59 AM
The White House just moved up the timeline so every eligible person in America can be vaccinated by April 19.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 03:35:59 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 03:35:59 PM
My wife got her second dose of Pfizer at 3 PM Saturday. At around 8:30 or 9:00 that evening, the side-effects set in. She got a headache (which may or may not have been related), both upper arms were sore (not just from the shot), she had tightness in her chest that came and went, and she had slight shortness or breath that came and went. Even though she slept well that night, she woke up feeling unrested. The following morning, the headache went away, but the other symptoms persisted through church, then gradually started to get better during afternoon/evening Easter activities with my parents. By Monday, she was pretty much symptom-free except for the shot soreness.
I've scheduled mine for exactly three weeks (plus one hour) after I got my first dose. That'll be a Friday evening. I've already asked if someone else is available to sub for me on drums in church the following Sunday, just in case I have lingering side-effects.
How long after getting the second shot is a person considered "immune"? That is, how long does it take to have its full effect?
I've scheduled mine for exactly three weeks (plus one hour) after I got my first dose. That'll be a Friday evening. I've already asked if someone else is available to sub for me on drums in church the following Sunday, just in case I have lingering side-effects.
How long after getting the second shot is a person considered "immune"? That is, how long does it take to have its full effect?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 06, 2021, 03:37:31 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 06, 2021, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 03:35:59 PM
How long after getting the second shot is a person considered "immune"? That is, how long does it take to have its full effect?
I believe they've said two weeks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: wanderer2575 on April 06, 2021, 04:16:13 PM
Post by: wanderer2575 on April 06, 2021, 04:16:13 PM
Getting my second Pfizer dose this Saturday. I had no side effects from the first; in fact, I immediately went for a long dayhike at a nearby metropark because it was one of the first really nice days outside. That probably would not be a great idea after getting this second one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: GaryV on April 06, 2021, 04:26:17 PM
Post by: GaryV on April 06, 2021, 04:26:17 PM
Remember that "immune" pretty much means you won't get sick from the disease. It doesn't mean you won't have the disease. You still need to take precautions around unvaccinated people. And since most people don't wear signs telling about their vaccination status, you need to be careful around everyone.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kevinb1994 on April 06, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
Post by: kevinb1994 on April 06, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
I'm getting my first dose this Friday at CVS. Second dose, same location, same time, next month.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: GaryV on April 06, 2021, 04:26:17 PM
Remember that "immune" pretty much means you won't get sick from the disease. It doesn't mean you won't have the disease. You still need to take precautions around unvaccinated people. And since most people don't wear signs telling about their vaccination status, you need to be careful around everyone.
You meant "doesn't mean you won't have the virus", not "doesn't mean you won't have the disease", right?
Considering that we will never reach a 100% vaccination rate, what exactly are you suggesting? Wearing face masks and keeping six feet apart from everyone for the rest of our lives? Count me out.
Also...
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 20, 2021, 10:44:01 PM
Vaccination does lower your chances of transmitting the virus. Because your body has created vaccine-induced antibodies to COVID, the virus is unable to replicate inside you and therefore there is a lower viral load (amount of pathogen particles) leaving your system when you exhale and are around others.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Considering that we will never reach a 100% vaccination rate, what exactly are you suggesting? Wearing face masks and keeping six feet apart from everyone for the rest of our lives? Count me out.
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 04:58:48 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 04:58:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 04:50:29 PM
Considering that we will never reach a 100% vaccination rate, what exactly are you suggesting? Wearing face masks and keeping six feet apart from everyone for the rest of our lives? Count me out.
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 05:02:22 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 05:02:22 PM
That being said, I do think it would be nice if there are some aspects of the pandemic normal we keep around, just to help mitigate the spread of cold and flu. Things like it being socially acceptable to wear a mask if you are sick, and the plexiglas dividers between customers and service employees. Employers being okay with you taking time off work if you have a communicable disease. Things like that.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Around here, the mayor was begging people to get vaccinated, because they have more appointment slots than people wanting to take them. The day you're imagining will quickly arrive.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 05:02:22 PM
That being said, I do think it would be nice if there are some aspects of the pandemic normal we keep around, just to help mitigate the spread of cold and flu. Things like it being socially acceptable to wear a mask if you are sick, and the plexiglas dividers between customers and service employees. Employers being okay with you taking time off work if you have a communicable disease. Things like that.
Socially acceptable to wear a mask – I expect this to be true, kind of like how it already was acceptable in some other countries.
Plexiglass dividers – I expect the existing ones to stay up, but I doubt they'll be common in new construction.
Time off – I actually wonder if the opposite will be true at some places: employers expecting their employees to work from home instead.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Brandon on April 06, 2021, 06:20:18 PM
Post by: Brandon on April 06, 2021, 06:20:18 PM
One J&J and done.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 06:28:13 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 06:28:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Around here, the mayor was begging people to get vaccinated, because they have more appointment slots than people wanting to take them. The day you're imagining will quickly arrive.
That day has already arrived in rural parts of New York. The four largest metro areas are booked solid into late May, but you can get next-day (or even same-day) appointments in some rural areas if you're willing to drive. A lot of people are driving to Plattsburgh or Potsdam for their vaccines because the state vaccination sites up there have been wide open. I'm actually doing that myself, because I will then be fully vaccinated several weeks before I have a shot at getting in locally.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 06:47:08 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 06:47:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PM
Plexiglass dividers – I expect the existing ones to stay up, but I doubt they'll be common in new construction.
I don't think it's too much of a stretch. It used to be common for teller windows at banks to have a wrought iron or glass shield over the top with a small gap underneath to pass currency through–which is exactly what ended up getting installed at the casino I worked at after we reopened from the pandemic (but with plexiglas, of course). Box offices at theaters are still often enclosed in glass for no practical reason (it'd work just as well to have a ticket counter inside, like at an airport, but we expect a theater to have a glass box office outside so the practice persists for cultural reasons).
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PM
Time off – I actually wonder if the opposite will be true at some places: employers expecting their employees to work from home instead.
I'm more concerned with jobs that can't be done from home–retail clerks, bank tellers, budtenders, cooks, factory workers. Unfortunately, in these sorts of businesses, there's a cultural norm in the US to pinch a nickel so hard the buffalo shits on the employee, by scheduling exactly the number of employees they need to get things done–no more, no less. So if someone gets sick, there's no slack, and the employer has to try to scrounge up an employee to replace them and pay them overtime, or avoid the situation by guilting the sick employee into coming into work.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 06, 2021, 07:18:25 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 06, 2021, 07:18:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 06:47:08 PM
Unfortunately, in these sorts of businesses, there's a cultural norm in the US to pinch a nickel so hard the buffalo shits on the employee
You still see those nickels in circulation?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on April 06, 2021, 07:35:17 PM
Post by: Mapmikey on April 06, 2021, 07:35:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 06, 2021, 07:18:25 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 06:47:08 PM
Unfortunately, in these sorts of businesses, there's a cultural norm in the US to pinch a nickel so hard the buffalo shits on the employee
You still see those nickels in circulation?
Almost 940 million buffalo nickels were minted in 2005 as part of a special series of nickels.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 06, 2021, 09:06:53 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 06, 2021, 09:06:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PM
Time off – I actually wonder if the opposite will be true at some places: employers expecting their employees to work from home instead.
I guess that depends on the nature of the illness or the reason for the sick day -- do you not feel well or are you going to a doctor's appointment?
For the first time, I finally have a decent bank of leave time built up, and I can attribute that to working from home. There are a lot of days that ordinarily, I would not have felt like going to work, so I'd either go in late or take the whole day off. I've been able to mitigate that by working from home, so I can still do something even if I don't feel like getting up and getting ready and driving 30 miles/45 minutes to the office. The only sick days I've taken since last March are for scheduled doctor's appointments. I can just take a few hours to go to the local doctor since I only live about 15 minutes from his office, but appointments in Lexington pretty much require me to take the whole day off. I've only taken one annual day (vacation) the past 12 months, and that was because of an emergency that required some errands to be done one day.
I have more than five weeks' worth of vacation time, two weeks' of sick leave, and seven days' of comp time accumulated.
We already had an inclement weather policy in place that allowed you to make up time if the roads were bad, but I look for that to be supplanted with telecommuting for those who are able to do so. Much like I expect snow days to become extremely rare for schools.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 06, 2021, 09:19:11 PM
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 06, 2021, 09:19:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 06:28:13 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Around here, the mayor was begging people to get vaccinated, because they have more appointment slots than people wanting to take them. The day you're imagining will quickly arrive.
That day has already arrived in rural parts of New York. The four largest metro areas are booked solid into late May, but you can get next-day (or even same-day) appointments in some rural areas if you're willing to drive. A lot of people are driving to Plattsburgh or Potsdam for their vaccines because the state vaccination sites up there have been wide open. I'm actually doing that myself, because I will then be fully vaccinated several weeks before I have a shot at getting in locally.
This is exactly how I got my 1st shot in MD (with my 2nd this coming Sunday) - I drove an hour and a half to Waldorf (southeast and still well within commuting distance of DC, but quieter compared to, say, Northern Virginia or Montgomery County).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US71 on April 06, 2021, 09:21:05 PM
Post by: US71 on April 06, 2021, 09:21:05 PM
I am now scheduled for "one and done" on Saturday...IF they don't run out (again).
I have a friend who got the 2-step vaccine, but now wants to get a "one and done" to be safe.
I have a friend who got the 2-step vaccine, but now wants to get a "one and done" to be safe.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 06, 2021, 09:26:27 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 06, 2021, 09:26:27 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 06, 2021, 09:21:05 PM
I have a friend who got the 2-step vaccine, but now wants to get a "one and done" to be safe.
Wait. What? First of all, both of the "2-step" vaccines are more effective than the "one and done"
Secondly, unless he lies about already being vaccinated, nobody is going to give it to him.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 06, 2021, 10:40:36 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 06, 2021, 10:40:36 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 06:28:13 PMIt will be interesting to see how this evolves. Definitely more booked than the last wave (where the Dome Arena and SUNY Oneonta still had appointments - they don't, this time), but a bunch of appointments opened up last Friday (that's how I was able to move mine from April 27 at SUNY Oneonta to April 9 at SUNY Albany), so that might happen again.Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Around here, the mayor was begging people to get vaccinated, because they have more appointment slots than people wanting to take them. The day you're imagining will quickly arrive.
That day has already arrived in rural parts of New York. The four largest metro areas are booked solid into late May, but you can get next-day (or even same-day) appointments in some rural areas if you're willing to drive. A lot of people are driving to Plattsburgh or Potsdam for their vaccines because the state vaccination sites up there have been wide open. I'm actually doing that myself, because I will then be fully vaccinated several weeks before I have a shot at getting in locally.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 11:00:30 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 11:00:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 06, 2021, 10:40:36 PMQuote from: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 06:28:13 PMIt will be interesting to see how this evolves. Definitely more booked than the last wave (where the Dome Arena and SUNY Oneonta still had appointments - they don't, this time), but a bunch of appointments opened up last Friday (that's how I was able to move mine from April 27 at SUNY Oneonta to April 9 at SUNY Albany), so that might happen again.Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Around here, the mayor was begging people to get vaccinated, because they have more appointment slots than people wanting to take them. The day you're imagining will quickly arrive.
That day has already arrived in rural parts of New York. The four largest metro areas are booked solid into late May, but you can get next-day (or even same-day) appointments in some rural areas if you're willing to drive. A lot of people are driving to Plattsburgh or Potsdam for their vaccines because the state vaccination sites up there have been wide open. I'm actually doing that myself, because I will then be fully vaccinated several weeks before I have a shot at getting in locally.
Rensselaer County opened up a few thousand appointments at Hudson Valley Community College Wednesday-Saturday of this week for anyone eligible in New York a few hours ago. Those haven't booked solid yet. I'm maintaining my Plattsburgh appointment because I want an excuse to drive up there, but if I didn't actively want to make the drive, I could easily move it to something local. A lot of those HVCC appointments seem to be going to students at the area colleges.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: noelbotevera on April 06, 2021, 11:14:46 PM
Post by: noelbotevera on April 06, 2021, 11:14:46 PM
Zilch on my end, although I did get a case of COVID at the start of this year (in my case, a fever/headache for a day, then a cold for about a week - nothing too scary but I'd hate to catch the variants). Since I'm 16 - going on 17 - I'll have to get the Pfizer vaccine. Since PA is also slow as molasses with vaccinations, I might look for clinics in Martinsburg, WV. Don't want to go too far.
Of course, there's a decent chance they'll ask for residency - if so, I'm thinking of waiting until the 19th where it's a free-for-all to book appointments. Hopefully they'll set up mass vaccination sites in Harrisburg or something.
Of course, there's a decent chance they'll ask for residency - if so, I'm thinking of waiting until the 19th where it's a free-for-all to book appointments. Hopefully they'll set up mass vaccination sites in Harrisburg or something.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 06, 2021, 11:44:48 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 06, 2021, 11:44:48 PM
Given how quickly appointments change on the NY state sites, it is hard to make an objective assessment of the state of things in NY. My bet is that even in the cities that with a little patience and refreshing, slots can be had.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 07, 2021, 10:05:52 AM
Post by: kphoger on April 07, 2021, 10:05:52 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 06, 2021, 07:18:25 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 06:47:08 PM
Unfortunately, in these sorts of businesses, there's a cultural norm in the US to pinch a nickel so hard the buffalo shits on the employee
You still see those nickels in circulation?
If I remember right, |Scott5114| has seen more rare currency in the last nine years than most of us will see in a lifetime, by virtue of his having worked in a casino.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 07, 2021, 11:56:59 AM
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 07, 2021, 11:56:59 AM
Anyone else a little nervous about all these variants spreading? I'm fearful that one of them already does or will in the future render vaccines much less effective or even useless. Worst case scenario, we'd have to start from scratch. I've been watching the news closely about the variants but I'm getting a lot of mixed information. Some say the vaccines work against them, and some say they make them less effective. I really want to feel like I don't have to worry about COVID as much anymore, but if a version of the virus is spreading that my vaccine won't protect me from, then I'll just have to go back to my pre-vaccine levels of caution I guess.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 07, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 07, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Variants are the main reason I suspect we may need more than one round of vaccination and that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 07, 2021, 12:30:05 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 07, 2021, 12:30:05 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 07, 2021, 11:56:59 AM
Anyone else a little nervous about all these variants spreading? I'm fearful that one of them already does or will in the future render vaccines much less effective or even useless. Worst case scenario, we'd have to start from scratch. I've been watching the news closely about the variants but I'm getting a lot of mixed information. Some say the vaccines work against them, and some say they make them less effective. I really want to feel like I don't have to worry about COVID as much anymore, but if a version of the virus is spreading that my vaccine won't protect me from, then I'll just have to go back to my pre-vaccine levels of caution I guess.
The main variants identified so far have not shown to be vaccine-resistant. However, every time a new infection occurs, that increases the risk that the virus mutates into a variant that is vaccine-resistant. Thus the need for healthy, young adults to take precautions to avoid infection, even if they are unlikely to suffer serious illness.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 07, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 07, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
So far, all of the vaccines that are being given in the US have been able to prevent severe illness or death by the variants. mRNA vaccines are well-equipped to handle mutations, while the J&J vaccine trials were conducted when B117 and B1351 were circulating. P1 (the Brazilian variant) is a bit more concerning, but still no sign that the vaccines are ineffective against it.
That being said, it is very possible that booster shots may be required, particularly for the single-shot J&J vaccine. But that would likely be more like getting a flu shot (and possibly wrapped into the flu shot).
That being said, it is very possible that booster shots may be required, particularly for the single-shot J&J vaccine. But that would likely be more like getting a flu shot (and possibly wrapped into the flu shot).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 07, 2021, 12:46:25 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 07, 2021, 12:46:25 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 07, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
That being said, it is very possible that booster shots may be required, particularly for the single-shot J&J vaccine. But that would likely be more like getting a flu shot (and possibly wrapped into the flu shot).
That's what I've heard too.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 07, 2021, 01:58:55 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 07, 2021, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2021, 12:46:25 PMQuote from: cl94 on April 07, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
That being said, it is very possible that booster shots may be required, particularly for the single-shot J&J vaccine. But that would likely be more like getting a flu shot (and possibly wrapped into the flu shot).
That's what I've heard too.
I'm guessing it will likely be like a flu shot, where you get the shot every year based on what the best guess for mutations is. Perhaps unlike the flu, it might be only a couple of years of it.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:02:22 PM
Post by: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:02:22 PM
There's no option for J&J people like me? I got mine prior to Grp 3. PM me if you like the proof.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:05:44 PM
Post by: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:05:44 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 06, 2021, 10:40:36 PMMy cousin rode along with us with her son to the Oncenter. it was the Pfizer and she said it was terrible with chills and tiredness 😂😂😷Quote from: cl94 on April 06, 2021, 06:28:13 PMIt will be interesting to see how this evolves. Definitely more booked than the last wave (where the Dome Arena and SUNY Oneonta still had appointments - they don't, this time), but a bunch of appointments opened up last Friday (that's how I was able to move mine from April 27 at SUNY Oneonta to April 9 at SUNY Albany), so that might happen again.Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2021, 05:07:11 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
I feel like we'll reach a certain point where everyone who is willing to get a vaccination will have been able to get a vaccination. At that point masks and social distancing can go away, and anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated will get to live with the consequences of that decision.
Around here, the mayor was begging people to get vaccinated, because they have more appointment slots than people wanting to take them. The day you're imagining will quickly arrive.
That day has already arrived in rural parts of New York. The four largest metro areas are booked solid into late May, but you can get next-day (or even same-day) appointments in some rural areas if you're willing to drive. A lot of people are driving to Plattsburgh or Potsdam for their vaccines because the state vaccination sites up there have been wide open. I'm actually doing that myself, because I will then be fully vaccinated several weeks before I have a shot at getting in locally.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:07:41 PM
Post by: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:07:41 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 06, 2021, 11:14:46 PMMaybe you'll get one at my hotel where I usually stay. Comfort inn aikens center has a site nearby.
Zilch on my end, although I did get a case of COVID at the start of this year (in my case, a fever/headache for a day, then a cold for about a week - nothing too scary but I'd hate to catch the variants). Since I'm 16 - going on 17 - I'll have to get the Pfizer vaccine. Since PA is also slow as molasses with vaccinations, I might look for clinics in Martinsburg, WV. Don't want to go too far.
Of course, there's a decent chance they'll ask for residency - if so, I'm thinking of waiting until the 19th where it's a free-for-all to book appointments. Hopefully they'll set up mass vaccination sites in Harrisburg or something.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 07, 2021, 08:08:24 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 07, 2021, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 07, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Variants are the main reason I suspect we may need more than one round of vaccination and that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent.
See, I agree that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent, but would put forth an entirely different reason why: the percentage of the population in the US that is both able and willing to get vaccinated against covid is insufficient to render it as minor a public health threat as other diseases we don't generally worry much about due to vaccines. Masks in public ceasing to be warranted will thus have to wait for the people who can't and/or won't get vaccinated to gain immunity the hard way.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US71 on April 07, 2021, 08:15:15 PM
Post by: US71 on April 07, 2021, 08:15:15 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 06, 2021, 09:26:27 PMQuote from: US71 on April 06, 2021, 09:21:05 PM
I have a friend who got the 2-step vaccine, but now wants to get a "one and done" to be safe.
Wait. What? First of all, both of the "2-step" vaccines are more effective than the "one and done"
Secondly, unless he lies about already being vaccinated, nobody is going to give it to him.
Well, I didn't give Doc Goodleech the 3rd degree. Being a doctor, I suppose he felt it paying it safe.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Big John on April 07, 2021, 08:24:07 PM
Post by: Big John on April 07, 2021, 08:24:07 PM
Getting my first shot next Tuesday. I don't know which one I'm getting.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on April 07, 2021, 08:24:30 PM
Post by: bm7 on April 07, 2021, 08:24:30 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:02:22 PMI suppose you could choose the option for already having gotten both shots, since that's the functional equivalent of your situation.
There's no option for J&J people like me? I got mine prior to Grp 3. PM me if you like the proof.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 07, 2021, 11:10:19 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 07, 2021, 11:10:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2021, 10:05:52 AMQuote from: 1 on April 06, 2021, 07:18:25 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 06:47:08 PM
Unfortunately, in these sorts of businesses, there's a cultural norm in the US to pinch a nickel so hard the buffalo shits on the employee
You still see those nickels in circulation?
If I remember right, |Scott5114| has seen more rare currency in the last nine years than most of us will see in a lifetime, by virtue of his having worked in a casino.
I have definitely seen a decent number of buffalo nickels. They certainly aren't as common as things like wheat pennies or bicentennial quarters but you do see them occasionally. They're nowhere near as rare as Indian head pennies or the nickels with the big "V" on the back (had one of those fall out of a bank roll of all things). Unfortunately, it's hard to gauge what normal circulation is from the casino, since we did get a decent number of transactions where someone had pretty clearly cleaned out their grandpa's coin collection to turn in for face value to get a $1 bill to stick in a slot machine.
Don't let any of that distract you from what I was communicating with the turn of phrase though ;)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: snowc on April 08, 2021, 08:24:21 AM
Post by: snowc on April 08, 2021, 08:24:21 AM
Quote from: bm7 on April 07, 2021, 08:24:30 PMThere you go... :biggrin:Quote from: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:02:22 PMI suppose you could choose the option for already having gotten both shots, since that's the functional equivalent of your situation.
There's no option for J&J people like me? I got mine prior to Grp 3. PM me if you like the proof.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on April 08, 2021, 09:06:45 AM
Post by: SectorZ on April 08, 2021, 09:06:45 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 07, 2021, 08:08:24 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on April 07, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Variants are the main reason I suspect we may need more than one round of vaccination and that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent.
See, I agree that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent, but would put forth an entirely different reason why: the percentage of the population in the US that is both able and willing to get vaccinated against covid is insufficient to render it as minor a public health threat as other diseases we don't generally worry much about due to vaccines. Masks in public ceasing to be warranted will thus have to wait for the people who can't and/or won't get vaccinated to gain immunity the hard way.
Or we can just make them suffer the consequences of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 08, 2021, 09:24:06 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 08, 2021, 09:24:06 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 08, 2021, 09:06:45 AMQuote from: Duke87 on April 07, 2021, 08:08:24 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on April 07, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Variants are the main reason I suspect we may need more than one round of vaccination and that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent.
See, I agree that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent, but would put forth an entirely different reason why: the percentage of the population in the US that is both able and willing to get vaccinated against covid is insufficient to render it as minor a public health threat as other diseases we don't generally worry much about due to vaccines. Masks in public ceasing to be warranted will thus have to wait for the people who can't and/or won't get vaccinated to gain immunity the hard way.
Or we can just make them suffer the consequences of not being vaccinated.
If we reach herd immunity by having enough vaccinated, the virus will die out. If we don't, it won't go away, and we'll have to deal with new variants and possibly get new vaccinations to deal with the new variants.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 10:33:59 AM
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 07, 2021, 08:08:24 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on April 07, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Variants are the main reason I suspect we may need more than one round of vaccination and that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent.
See, I agree that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent, but would put forth an entirely different reason why: the percentage of the population in the US that is both able and willing to get vaccinated against covid is insufficient to render it as minor a public health threat as other diseases we don't generally worry much about due to vaccines. Masks in public ceasing to be warranted will thus have to wait for the people who can't and/or won't get vaccinated to gain immunity the hard way.
That's just making everyone protect those who don't want to be protected.
Quote from: 1 on April 08, 2021, 09:24:06 AM
If we reach herd immunity by having enough vaccinated, the virus will die out. If we don't, it won't go away, and we'll have to deal with new variants and possibly get new vaccinations to deal with the new variants.
Maybe. Or maybe not.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 08, 2021, 10:39:34 AM
Post by: webny99 on April 08, 2021, 10:39:34 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 10:33:59 AMQuote from: 1 on April 08, 2021, 09:24:06 AM
If we reach herd immunity by having enough vaccinated, the virus will die out. If we don't, it won't go away, and we'll have to deal with new variants and possibly get new vaccinations to deal with the new variants.
Maybe. Or maybe not.
Given how Canada has been struggling with the vaccine rollout and is also having issues with new variants, it's safe to say that getting the vaccine out will reduce issues with future variants, at least in the short and medium term.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on April 08, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
Post by: SectorZ on April 08, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 08, 2021, 09:24:06 AMQuote from: SectorZ on April 08, 2021, 09:06:45 AMQuote from: Duke87 on April 07, 2021, 08:08:24 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on April 07, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Variants are the main reason I suspect we may need more than one round of vaccination and that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent.
See, I agree that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent, but would put forth an entirely different reason why: the percentage of the population in the US that is both able and willing to get vaccinated against covid is insufficient to render it as minor a public health threat as other diseases we don't generally worry much about due to vaccines. Masks in public ceasing to be warranted will thus have to wait for the people who can't and/or won't get vaccinated to gain immunity the hard way.
Or we can just make them suffer the consequences of not being vaccinated.
If we reach herd immunity by having enough vaccinated, the virus will die out. If we don't, it won't go away, and we'll have to deal with new variants and possibly get new vaccinations to deal with the new variants.
I'm not living in a deprecated state for years longer because some QAnon/RFK Jr types think vaccines are a conspiracy. They want to spread it among themselves and die from it, that's their choice. To paraphrase a famous Soviet boxer, "if they die, they die".
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 11:33:36 AM
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 11:33:36 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 08, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
I'm not living in a deprecated state for years longer because some QAnon/RFK Jr types think vaccines are a conspiracy.
Right. That's the only reason anyone doesn't get a vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on April 08, 2021, 12:05:14 PM
Post by: jakeroot on April 08, 2021, 12:05:14 PM
I know quite a lot of people playing the "wait and see" game, but few of them have actually indicated to me when they plan to get it. I'm not sure at what point they'll feel comfortable.
My guess is that they're secretly hoping COVID will die out before they need to get it. But it seems there may be too many people playing the "wait and see" game for COVID to actually die out.
My guess is that they're secretly hoping COVID will die out before they need to get it. But it seems there may be too many people playing the "wait and see" game for COVID to actually die out.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 08, 2021, 12:13:39 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 08, 2021, 12:13:39 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 08, 2021, 12:05:14 PM
I know quite a lot of people playing the "wait and see" game, but few of them have actually indicated to me when they plan to get it. I'm not sure at what point they'll feel comfortable.
My guess is that they're secretly hoping COVID will die out before they need to get it. But it seems there may be too many people playing the "wait and see" game for COVID to actually die out.
Before I was convinced to get it early (I'm still not eligible yet), I decided I would be one of the last adults to get it, since I'm only 22 years old. If I had kept that plan, I would have gotten it after most other people, but I did have a definite plan.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on April 08, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Post by: jakeroot on April 08, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 08, 2021, 12:13:39 PMQuote from: jakeroot on April 08, 2021, 12:05:14 PM
I know quite a lot of people playing the "wait and see" game, but few of them have actually indicated to me when they plan to get it. I'm not sure at what point they'll feel comfortable.
My guess is that they're secretly hoping COVID will die out before they need to get it. But it seems there may be too many people playing the "wait and see" game for COVID to actually die out.
Before I was convinced to get it early (I'm still not eligible yet), I decided I would be one of the last adults to get it, since I'm only 22 years old. If I had kept that plan, I would have gotten it after most other people, but I did have a definite plan.
I was in the same boat until I learned about my tribal health authority offering it to all ages back in January. But I'm more concerned about those who have been eligible under an earlier phase but declined to accept the vaccine as they'd rather wait to see how it plays out. I'd love to know when those people will be comfortable getting the vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 08, 2021, 12:28:19 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 08, 2021, 12:28:19 PM
I'm selfish and wanted to get my vaccine as quickly as possible. Obviously I was going to wait for the other priority groups (who I agree should have gotten it long before me), but I don't feel the need to wait if the government says I don't have to.
I was never all that concerned about what would happen if I got it since I'm healthy, but I just would feel terrible if I got it, passed it along to someone else, and they had a serious reaction. Now I don't have to have that concern nearly as much.
Chris
I was never all that concerned about what would happen if I got it since I'm healthy, but I just would feel terrible if I got it, passed it along to someone else, and they had a serious reaction. Now I don't have to have that concern nearly as much.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 08, 2021, 12:55:57 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 08, 2021, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 08, 2021, 12:05:14 PMI know quite a lot of people playing the "wait and see" game, but few of them have actually indicated to me when they plan to get it. I'm not sure at what point they'll feel comfortable.
My guess is that they're secretly hoping COVID will die out before they need to get it. But it seems there may be too many people playing the "wait and see" game for COVID to actually die out.
When the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines first received emergency use authorization, I set September 30, 2021 (end of the third quarter of this year) as an earliest date to seek vaccination, for the following reasons:
* I expected manufacturers to have much more difficulty ramping up production than seems to have been the case, and was very pessimistic about getting even half of the US population vaccinated by the end of 2021. We may still not reach herd immunity this year (or ever), but if we fail, it won't be because of supply constraints.
* I had no medical or occupational claim to priority, the most common underlying condition I don't share being BMI in excess of 25 (applies to 65% of Americans).
* I didn't want to spend much of 2021 in a cloud of impatience waiting for vaccine to be available.
* To keep waiting to a minimum, I preferred to engage with the process once demand had slackened after an initial wave.
So, by having my first shot on March 27, I have acted a full six months earlier than I expected. At the time I booked it, I did not know that the Osage tribal clinic in Pawhuska, Oklahoma had started taking all comers on March 11. If I had, I would willingly have made the 240-mile round trip twice for the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine.
There are three reasons I don't feel guilty about receiving vaccination earlier than called for in most of the prioritization schemes.
* Refusal rates have been high among earlier priority groups.
* I felt, and still feel, that I needed to start the vaccination process ASAP to counterbalance the elevated risk from covid variants and from governments prematurely dismantling nonpharmaceutical interventions (such as mask mandates).
* I had no interest in receiving the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, and it was easier to avoid when it still formed only a small fraction of the available supply.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 08, 2021, 02:42:56 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 08, 2021, 02:42:56 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 07, 2021, 08:24:30 PMQuote from: snowc on April 07, 2021, 08:02:22 PMI suppose you could choose the option for already having gotten both shots, since that's the functional equivalent of your situation.
There's no option for J&J people like me? I got mine prior to Grp 3. PM me if you like the proof.
At the time the poll was created, the J&J shot was not yet available. If you've already taken it, you wouldn't be wrong in saying you plan to take it when it becomes available.
Quote from: 1 on April 08, 2021, 09:24:06 AMQuote from: SectorZ on April 08, 2021, 09:06:45 AMQuote from: Duke87 on April 07, 2021, 08:08:24 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on April 07, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
Variants are the main reason I suspect we may need more than one round of vaccination and that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent.
See, I agree that a plausible safe endpoint for mask wearing is not imminent, but would put forth an entirely different reason why: the percentage of the population in the US that is both able and willing to get vaccinated against covid is insufficient to render it as minor a public health threat as other diseases we don't generally worry much about due to vaccines. Masks in public ceasing to be warranted will thus have to wait for the people who can't and/or won't get vaccinated to gain immunity the hard way.
Or we can just make them suffer the consequences of not being vaccinated.
If we reach herd immunity by having enough vaccinated, the virus will die out. If we don't, it won't go away, and we'll have to deal with new variants and possibly get new vaccinations to deal with the new variants.
There seems to be this paranoid school of thought that everyone who doesn't get vaccinated will get covid. I'm not sure why people think that. I've never taken a flu shot, and I've never had the flu. There's no reason for me to think that I'll get covid just because I don't take the shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 08, 2021, 02:50:50 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 08, 2021, 02:50:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 08, 2021, 02:42:56 PM
There seems to be this paranoid school of thought that everyone who doesn't get vaccinated will get covid. I'm not sure why people think that. I've never taken a flu shot, and I've never had the flu. There's no reason for me to think that I'll get covid just because I don't take the shot.
The percentage vaccinated matters a lot more than whether any specific person gets it or not. If at least ≈75% get the shot (we don't know the exact number), we can return to normal life (maybe not immediately – if it's barely above the threshold, it will decrease slowly, but at least it won't increase). If at least 25% (using the prior number as an example) say "I'm not getting the shot because I'm not going to get COVID", the virus will continue to spread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So then, what is your expectation if we assume that the threshold (whatever number it is) will never be reached in America? Never return to normal?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 08, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 08, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So then, what is your expectation if we assume that the threshold (whatever number it is) will never be reached in America? Never return to normal?
Getting COVID counts as being immune unless the variants diverge too far. If they do diverge, we could see it being like the seasonal flu, but I don't expect that to happen.
Typically, when a virus is required to mutate in order to survive, it becomes less deadly.
Also keep in mind that the 1918 flu lasted until 1920, and it hasn't been two years yet.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 08, 2021, 03:57:59 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 08, 2021, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So then, what is your expectation if we assume that the threshold (whatever number it is) will never be reached in America? Never return to normal?
If we never reach herd immunity, then eventually we get a vaccine-resistant variant, and we're in pretty big trouble then.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: snowc on April 08, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Post by: snowc on April 08, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
QuoteWake County pauses J&J vaccine clinic at PNC Arena. At 4, WRAL explains why and how many people were affected – After "several" people had adverse reactions Thursday to Johnson & Johnson vaccines delivered at Raleigh's PNC Arena, Wake County put a halt to vaccinations there "in an abundance of caution," spokeswoman Stacy Beard said. Beginning at 4, WRAL gets answers to what's next for those with appointments.Here we go again... 🙄
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:04:53 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 08, 2021, 03:57:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So then, what is your expectation if we assume that the threshold (whatever number it is) will never be reached in America? Never return to normal?
If we never reach herd immunity, then eventually we get a vaccine-resistant variant, and we're in pretty big trouble then.
So is that a yes? (not to imply you're the one I originally asked the question)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 08, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 08, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PMSo then, what is your expectation if we assume that the threshold (whatever number it is) will never be reached in America? Never return to normal?
As time passes and we gain more experience with the disease, I expect management strategies to evolve. I certainly don't think it is a given that we will have to wear masks indefinitely, or that public health authorities will default to recommending mask wearing (in the teeth of widespread noncompliance) as the main mechanism for preventing spread. So, yes, I think we will return to normal in some form. My main concern about vaccine hesitancy is not that we will fail to reach herd immunity (a goal which I am not sure is achievable in the first place), but rather that a low vaccination percentage will tie us to worse outcomes in terms of a return to pre-2019 conditions.
I also continue to stand by my prediction upthread that we won't use vaccine passports. I think it is much more likely that business models that rely on congregation will be defended through indemnification. For example, if you choose to watch a movie in the theatre, your ticket may be sold subject to the condition that you don't sue the cinema chain if you catch covid on the premises.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:29:06 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:29:06 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 08, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
I think it is much more likely that business models that rely on congregation will be defended through indemnification. For example, if you choose to watch a movie in the theatre, your ticket may be sold subject to the condition that you don't sue the cinema chain if you catch covid on the premises.
I'm sure that, if such things happen, they won't single out COVID specifically–rather, any illness.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 08, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 08, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:04:53 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 08, 2021, 03:57:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So then, what is your expectation if we assume that the threshold (whatever number it is) will never be reached in America? Never return to normal?
If we never reach herd immunity, then eventually we get a vaccine-resistant variant, and we're in pretty big trouble then.
So is that a yes? (not to imply you're the one I originally asked the question)
If we never reach herd immunity we shouldn't return to normal but given that some states essentially have already returned to normal or very close to it, that's not what will happen.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: doorknob60 on April 08, 2021, 04:57:57 PM
Post by: doorknob60 on April 08, 2021, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 02, 2021, 12:45:37 PM
Interestingly, within the past couple days I've started to notice that the few lingering things that still smell/taste weird (I had a mild case back in November) are finally starting to return to normal. For instance, I recall posting a while ago about how honey-nut cheerios started tasting funky to me, but now I'm having some as I type this and it tastes closer to how I remember it. Not sure if this is related to getting the initial dose or just pure coincidence (I'm almost 5 months removed now, and there seems to be a wide range on when people's full sense of smell & taste returns).
I had a mild case in December, and got the first Pfizer dose last week, and I've noticed something similar. I'd say my sense of taste and smell has been 40-50% of "normal" for the past couple months, but starting a couple days after the shot, it's improved a little bit. Not all the way, but I'd say it's more like 60% of "normal" now. I thought it was a coincidence too, but if I'm not the only one noticing that, maybe there's something to it. Whatever the case may be, I'm not complaining.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 08, 2021, 05:21:05 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 08, 2021, 05:21:05 PM
I got a mild case recently. The "after symptoms" were much more annoying than the original symptoms; I had two days of chills and aches, and then the COVID nose, breathing hiccups, and extreme fatigue set in. The burning plastic smells went away after a week and the fatigue after about 10 days, but the COVID lung stuff hasn't fully resolved yet.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 08, 2021, 06:16:21 PM
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 08, 2021, 06:16:21 PM
COVID will never go away completely. It's simply too transmissible and deeply rooted in our communities. Eventually we will reach a point where humans and the virus can coexist peacefully. Outbreaks will flare up every so often in individual areas, and when that does happen, mask-wearing and vaccinations will be instituted in those areas.
The 1918 flu pandemic only went away because it literally tore through a third of the world's population and killed over 50 million people. It ended because of non-vaccine herd immunity. You can't really compare it to this pandemic.
Quote from: 1 on April 08, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
Also keep in mind that the 1918 flu lasted until 1920, and it hasn't been two years yet.
The 1918 flu pandemic only went away because it literally tore through a third of the world's population and killed over 50 million people. It ended because of non-vaccine herd immunity. You can't really compare it to this pandemic.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:24:09 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:24:09 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 08, 2021, 06:16:21 PM
COVID will never go away completely. It's simply too transmissible and deeply rooted in our communities. Eventually we will reach a point where humans and the virus can coexist peacefully. Outbreaks will flare up every so often in individual areas, and when that does happen, mask-wearing and vaccinations will be instituted in those areas.Quote from: 1 on April 08, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
Also keep in mind that the 1918 flu lasted until 1920, and it hasn't been two years yet.
The 1918 flu pandemic only went away because it literally tore through a third of the world's population and killed over 50 million people. It ended because of non-vaccine herd immunity. You can't really compare it to this pandemic.
The Spanish Flu killed WAY more people, those 4% mortality rates being projected in early 2020 were way off the mark with COVID-19.
Speaking of vaccines today was the first day that I could have gotten my second dose. Give I'm on vacation and my wedding anniversary was yesterday I decided to hold off until next Thursday. Apparently with Pfizer vaccine the recommend timeframe from the second dose is 28-42 days after the first dose. I rather risk feeling like crap on a working day instead of when I'm off.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 08, 2021, 06:50:09 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 08, 2021, 06:50:09 PM
Dose 1 of Pfizer happened this morning at the state mass vaccination site up in Plattsburgh. This is one of New York's few drive thru sites and it was a very efficient operation. I was in and out of there in about 25 minutes, including the mandatory waiting period.
A state trooper was stationed at the entrance to make sure everyone had the necessary paperwork. I then drove to the next station, which was a National Guard member taking temps. Next, I drove into a tent where paperwork was checked and I received information sheets about the vaccine. We then lined up outside a warehouse behind overhead doors. When my door opened, I drove in and up to a table, where someone took my paperwork. While my paperwork was being processed, a nurse asked health questions and administered the vaccine while I remained in my car. I then had my contact info verified, was handed a slip of paper showing what time I could leave (15 minutes after the vax), and was directed outside to a holding pen. 15 minutes later, I was free.
Vaccinations were conducted in https://goo.gl/maps/Gihsj6RsWeMbeJ4R6 (https://goo.gl/maps/Gihsj6RsWeMbeJ4R6)this building[/url], which has been spruced up.
A state trooper was stationed at the entrance to make sure everyone had the necessary paperwork. I then drove to the next station, which was a National Guard member taking temps. Next, I drove into a tent where paperwork was checked and I received information sheets about the vaccine. We then lined up outside a warehouse behind overhead doors. When my door opened, I drove in and up to a table, where someone took my paperwork. While my paperwork was being processed, a nurse asked health questions and administered the vaccine while I remained in my car. I then had my contact info verified, was handed a slip of paper showing what time I could leave (15 minutes after the vax), and was directed outside to a holding pen. 15 minutes later, I was free.
Vaccinations were conducted in https://goo.gl/maps/Gihsj6RsWeMbeJ4R6 (https://goo.gl/maps/Gihsj6RsWeMbeJ4R6)this building[/url], which has been spruced up.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 06:54:06 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 06:54:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:24:09 PM
Speaking of vaccines today was the first day that I could have gotten my second dose. Give I'm on vacation and my wedding anniversary was yesterday I decided to hold off until next Thursday. Apparently with Pfizer vaccine the recommend timeframe from the second dose is 28-42 days after the first dose. I rather risk feeling like crap on a working day instead of when I'm off.
See, I'm the opposite. I scheduled both of my shots specifically to disrupt my work and church schedules the least: Friday evening for both. If I'm going to be sick from side-effects, I'd rather let my wife go grocery shopping without me than have the only person at work who knows what how to do my job cover for me there. However, I've already asked if the only other drummer at church is available that Sunday morning, just in case.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 06:55:13 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 06:55:13 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 08, 2021, 06:50:09 PM
A state trooper was stationed at the entrance to make sure everyone had the necessary paperwork.
Cool!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:59:26 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 06:54:06 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:24:09 PM
Speaking of vaccines today was the first day that I could have gotten my second dose. Give I'm on vacation and my wedding anniversary was yesterday I decided to hold off until next Thursday. Apparently with Pfizer vaccine the recommend timeframe from the second dose is 28-42 days after the first dose. I rather risk feeling like crap on a working day instead of when I'm off.
See, I'm the opposite. I scheduled both of my shots specifically to disrupt my work and church schedules the least: Friday evening for both. If I'm going to be sick from side-effects, I'd rather let my wife go grocery shopping without me than have the only person at work who knows what how to do my job cover for me there. However, I've already asked if the only other drummer at church is available that Sunday morning, just in case.
For context, the vaccines are being administered as a program sponsored by my job. Logistically it would be infinitely easier to just walk out my office door to the vaccination site rather than making a 36 mile drive on my time off. Besides, I have so much unused vacation and extra staff right now that I really ought to find any legitimate reason to take as much time off as possible. I almost hit our vacation cap last year because I had two vacation cancelled due to other staff members getting sick or told to quarantine, I'm not going to be so selfless this year.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 07:02:52 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 07:02:52 PM
Fair enough! Similarly, I pee in a cup twice a year for work, and I always make sure to do so while I'm on the clock. My co-worker does so on her days off.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2021, 07:11:23 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2021, 07:11:23 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:24:09 PM
...Apparently with Pfizer vaccine the recommend timeframe from the second dose is 28-42 days after the first dose...
The recommended time frame is 21 days.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/second-shot.html
You can get it up to 42 days after the 1st, but it's heavily recommended to get it as close to that 21st day.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 07:43:15 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 08, 2021, 07:11:23 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:24:09 PM
...Apparently with Pfizer vaccine the recommend timeframe from the second dose is 28-42 days after the first dose...
The recommended time frame is 21 days.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/second-shot.html
You can get it up to 42 days after the 1st, but it's heavily recommended to get it as close to that 21st day.
I see, either way it will be within that 42 day window handily. I'm more after the passport aspect of a vaccination then it being a genuine health concern anyway. After my wife caught COVID and had antibodies for five months I figured that I've been exposed enough to have some kind of decent immunity.
Now I'm wondering why the base I got my vaccine at was saying 28 days instead of 21? I wonder if that was a supply thing?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 08, 2021, 09:16:02 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 08, 2021, 09:16:02 PM
Are you sure you got Pfizer? Moderna has a 28 day interval.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 08, 2021, 09:19:54 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 08, 2021, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 08, 2021, 06:50:09 PM
Dose 1 of Pfizer happened this morning at the state mass vaccination site up in Plattsburgh. This is one of New York's few drive thru sites and it was a very efficient operation. I was in and out of there in about 25 minutes, including the mandatory waiting period.
A state trooper was stationed at the entrance to make sure everyone had the necessary paperwork. I then drove to the next station, which was a National Guard member taking temps. Next, I drove into a tent where paperwork was checked and I received information sheets about the vaccine. We then lined up outside a warehouse behind overhead doors. When my door opened, I drove in and up to a table, where someone took my paperwork. While my paperwork was being processed, a nurse asked health questions and administered the vaccine while I remained in my car. I then had my contact info verified, was handed a slip of paper showing what time I could leave (15 minutes after the vax), and was directed outside to a holding pen. 15 minutes later, I was free.
Vaccinations were conducted in this building (https://goo.gl/maps/Gihsj6RsWeMbeJ4R6), which has been spruced up.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 09:21:43 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 09:21:43 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 08, 2021, 09:16:02 PM
Are you sure you got Pfizer? Moderna has a 28 day interval.
Yes, that's what is on my registration package. My CDC card also says to return for a second dose on/after 4/8/21.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 08, 2021, 09:43:42 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 08, 2021, 09:43:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:29:06 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on April 08, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
I think it is much more likely that business models that rely on congregation will be defended through indemnification. For example, if you choose to watch a movie in the theatre, your ticket may be sold subject to the condition that you don't sue the cinema chain if you catch covid on the premises.
I'm sure that, if such things happen, they won't single out COVID specifically–rather, any illness.
I would go farther and expect this sort of indemnification to happen in state law in more "business-friendly" states.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ftballfan on April 08, 2021, 10:27:45 PM
Post by: ftballfan on April 08, 2021, 10:27:45 PM
I have an appointment for a shot on Saturday morning. It'll likely be J&J as the place I have an appointment at (Family Fare) is listed as having J&J only. My sister has an appointment tomorrow at a different Family Fare than the one my shot will be at.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 09, 2021, 01:33:57 AM
Post by: Duke87 on April 09, 2021, 01:33:57 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 08, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
I also continue to stand by my prediction upthread that we won't use vaccine passports. I think it is much more likely that business models that rely on congregation will be defended through indemnification. For example, if you choose to watch a movie in the theatre, your ticket may be sold subject to the condition that you don't sue the cinema chain if you catch covid on the premises.
This will depend on the jurisdiction.
New York is already specifically requiring that, in order to enter a venue of large congregation, you must produce proof of vaccination, a negative rapid test collected within the last 6 hours, or a negative PCR test collected within the last 72 hours.
But that's New York - most states will not do this, and many are already seeking to specifically prohibit businesses from imposing such requirements for entry.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 09, 2021, 07:48:42 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 09, 2021, 07:48:42 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 06:54:06 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 08, 2021, 06:24:09 PM
Speaking of vaccines today was the first day that I could have gotten my second dose. Give I'm on vacation and my wedding anniversary was yesterday I decided to hold off until next Thursday. Apparently with Pfizer vaccine the recommend timeframe from the second dose is 28-42 days after the first dose. I rather risk feeling like crap on a working day instead of when I'm off.
See, I'm the opposite. I scheduled both of my shots specifically to disrupt my work and church schedules the least: Friday evening for both. If I'm going to be sick from side-effects, I'd rather let my wife go grocery shopping without me than have the only person at work who knows what how to do my job cover for me there. However, I've already asked if the only other drummer at church is available that Sunday morning, just in case.
I scheduled mine based on what time would make it easiest to ensure I would be able to get there without disruption from work, and in both cases that's 8:45 AM on Monday (first dose last week, second one a week from this coming Monday). I figure it's easier to get up and go get this done prior to signing onto work for the day, whereas if I start work and then try to take a break to head over, there's more chance of something coming up that will make it hard to break away, delay me, etc. If the price of that is feeling crappy later and disrupting my work day, oh well.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:43:46 AM
Post by: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:43:46 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2021, 09:43:42 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:29:06 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on April 08, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
I think it is much more likely that business models that rely on congregation will be defended through indemnification. For example, if you choose to watch a movie in the theatre, your ticket may be sold subject to the condition that you don't sue the cinema chain if you catch covid on the premises.
I'm sure that, if such things happen, they won't single out COVID specifically–rather, any illness.
I would go farther and expect this sort of indemnification to happen in state law in more "business-friendly" states.
But how much of that will hold up? Every baseball ticket to a Reds game that I ever attended when I was a kid had an indemnity clause printed on the ticket -- user assumes all risks associated with the game of baseball including but not limited to being struck by balls, loose or broken bats, etc. -- and people were suing if they got hit by a foul ball line drive and winning.
I don't think it would necessarily be possible to prove exactly where you got the virus if you did get it. Everyone claimed Herman Cain got it when he attended the Trump rally in Oklahoma, but that was never proven. One of my first cousins caught it and she has no idea where or how. She wore a mask and had no known contact with anyone who'd had it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:11:08 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 08, 2021, 04:32:47 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:04:53 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 08, 2021, 03:57:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So then, what is your expectation if we assume that the threshold (whatever number it is) will never be reached in America? Never return to normal?
If we never reach herd immunity, then eventually we get a vaccine-resistant variant, and we're in pretty big trouble then.
So is that a yes? (not to imply you're the one I originally asked the question)
If we never reach herd immunity we shouldn't return to normal but given that some states essentially have already returned to normal or very close to it, that's not what will happen.
If I'm correct, only one human disease has ever been eradicated by herd immunity in recorded history, so I don't think that's a realistic plan.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 08, 2021, 06:16:21 PM
COVID will never go away completely.
I think this is probably correct.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 09, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 09, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:11:08 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 08, 2021, 04:32:47 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 04:04:53 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 08, 2021, 03:57:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 08, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
So then, what is your expectation if we assume that the threshold (whatever number it is) will never be reached in America? Never return to normal?
If we never reach herd immunity, then eventually we get a vaccine-resistant variant, and we're in pretty big trouble then.
So is that a yes? (not to imply you're the one I originally asked the question)
If we never reach herd immunity we shouldn't return to normal but given that some states essentially have already returned to normal or very close to it, that's not what will happen.
If I'm correct, only one human disease has ever been eradicated by herd immunity in recorded history, so I don't think that's a realistic plan.Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 08, 2021, 06:16:21 PM
COVID will never go away completely.
I think this is probably correct.
Herd immunity does not equal eradicated. Herd immunity means that we have reached a point where there is an upper limit on how quickly it can spread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:25:49 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:25:49 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 09, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Herd immunity does not equal eradicated. Herd immunity means that we have reached a point where there is an upper limit on how quickly it can spread.
But you'll still get variants–just not as fast. What's your goal if not eradication?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 09, 2021, 01:27:51 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 09, 2021, 01:27:51 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:25:49 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 09, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Herd immunity does not equal eradicated. Herd immunity means that we have reached a point where there is an upper limit on how quickly it can spread.
But you'll still get variants–just not as fast. What's your goal if not eradication?
Eradication is the goal, but herd immunity is a level you reach on the way to the goal. Herd immunity also puts us at a level where variants are going to become very rare.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 09, 2021, 01:37:56 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 09, 2021, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 09, 2021, 01:27:51 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:25:49 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 09, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Herd immunity does not equal eradicated. Herd immunity means that we have reached a point where there is an upper limit on how quickly it can spread.
But you'll still get variants–just not as fast. What's your goal if not eradication?
Eradication is the goal, but herd immunity is a level you reach on the way to the goal. Herd immunity also puts us at a level where variants are going to become very rare.
This is where the slow rate of mutation and the effectiveness of vaccines against the variants is key. The influenza virus mutates fast enough that you need a new shot each year because the variants are too different and even then it's a crapshoot. The COVID vaccines aren't like that (at least at this point). As long as the main COVID vaccines retain their effectiveness against the variants, containment (if not eradication) is possible.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 01:45:54 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 01:45:54 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:43:46 AM
I don't think it would necessarily be possible to prove exactly where you got the virus if you did get it. Everyone claimed Herman Cain got it when he attended the Trump rally in Oklahoma, but that was never proven.
Kevin Stitt was maskless in the same section as Herman Cain and got it too, becoming the first governor to catch it. So it seems likely, though difficult to prove, that someone at the rally had it and gave it to both Cain and Stitt, or one of them gave it to the other.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:43:46 AM
One of my first cousins caught it and she has no idea where or how. She wore a mask and had no known contact with anyone who'd had it.
I've read that in the UK, where there are far more lockdowns and observance of social distancing protocols, that contact tracing has led them to believe that people there often pick it up doing grocery shopping. Someone's standing in front of the meat cooler staring vapidly at the different cuts of meat, you squeeze by them to grab a thing of ground beef, and...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 01:45:54 PMQuote from: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:43:46 AM
I don't think it would necessarily be possible to prove exactly where you got the virus if you did get it. Everyone claimed Herman Cain got it when he attended the Trump rally in Oklahoma, but that was never proven.
Kevin Stitt was maskless in the same section as Herman Cain and got it too, becoming the first governor to catch it. So it seems likely, though difficult to prove, that someone at the rally had it and gave it to both Cain and Stitt, or one of them gave it to the other.
Well, how does one prove that kind of thing anyway? Do a DNA analysis of the virus in each person?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 09, 2021, 02:02:45 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 09, 2021, 02:02:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 01:59:29 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 01:45:54 PMQuote from: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:43:46 AM
I don't think it would necessarily be possible to prove exactly where you got the virus if you did get it. Everyone claimed Herman Cain got it when he attended the Trump rally in Oklahoma, but that was never proven.
Kevin Stitt was maskless in the same section as Herman Cain and got it too, becoming the first governor to catch it. So it seems likely, though difficult to prove, that someone at the rally had it and gave it to both Cain and Stitt, or one of them gave it to the other.
Well, how does one prove that kind of thing anyway? Do a DNA analysis of the virus in each person?
No, you don't prove it. You make reasonable assumptions based on when you first exhibited symptoms and how many people you were around 10-14 days before that date who began exhibiting symptoms a few days before you.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 02:03:23 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 02:03:23 PM
That's the thing–you can't prove it, at least not to the threshold that would be required to assign legal liability. So if you had an employer that took no precautions against exposing you to the virus, you caught it and died, and your family sued them, their lawyer could go out and say "well there's no evidence he didn't catch it at the grocery store" and win the case.
That's one of the reasons I quit my casino job, actually.
That's one of the reasons I quit my casino job, actually.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kevinb1994 on April 09, 2021, 02:03:34 PM
Post by: kevinb1994 on April 09, 2021, 02:03:34 PM
Got my first shot of the Pfizer vaccine today. Had no problems at the CVS. Someone else in line actually showed up at the wrong location (on the same road)...their excuse was that they were on their lunch break and had to hurry back.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 09, 2021, 03:47:49 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 09, 2021, 03:47:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:43:46 AMBut how much of that will hold up? Every baseball ticket to a Reds game that I ever attended when I was a kid had an indemnity clause printed on the ticket -- user assumes all risks associated with the game of baseball including but not limited to being struck by balls, loose or broken bats, etc. -- and people were suing if they got hit by a foul ball line drive and winning.
This is an open question. But even if a contract specifically disallows liability from a given cause, it is still open to challenge under the doctrines of unconscionability and non est factum. And once a case gets in front of a jury, odd things can happen (Bushel's Case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushel%27s_Case) comes to mind).
In Kansas, nursing homes have already received a statutory liability shield from covid-related claims.
Quote from: Duke87 on April 09, 2021, 01:33:57 AMNew York is already specifically requiring that, in order to enter a venue of large congregation, you must produce proof of vaccination, a negative rapid test collected within the last 6 hours, or a negative PCR test collected within the last 72 hours.
But that's New York - most states will not do this, and many are already seeking to specifically prohibit businesses from imposing such requirements for entry.
I think New York may well end up being the exception that proves the rule. In Kansas, our governor (a Democrat, like Cuomo) has categorically ruled out vaccine passports. The Guardian has also reported (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/27/vaccine-passports-for-uk-pubs-not-a-good-idea-says-behaviour-expert) that the UK government has received advice from social psychologists to the effect that they amount to a negative incentive to be vaccinated, with a high likelihood of encouraging the vaccine-hesitant to dig in and not get the shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on April 09, 2021, 05:33:42 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on April 09, 2021, 05:33:42 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 01:45:54 PMThat's interesting. I believe I was a bit suspicious of that a year ago in the coronavirus thread...
I've read that in the UK, where there are far more lockdowns and observance of social distancing protocols, that contact tracing has led them to believe that people there often pick it up doing grocery shopping. Someone's standing in front of the meat cooler staring vapidly at the different cuts of meat, you squeeze by them to grab a thing of ground beef, and...
Quote from: CoreySamsonYou can go to page 113 of the original coronavirus thread for the original quote.
Does anyone here know the effect supermarkets are having on the coronavirus spread?
From what I've seen, no grocery stores are shutting down due to coronavirus spread among its workers, but meat processing plants are? I'd think coronavirus would spread more quickly in grocery stores than in meat processing centers or churches or parks. I'd think the workers who've interacted with the most people since coronavirus came here would probably be grocery store workers.
If the government is so intent on reducing coronavirus transmission, then why did they not tell grocery stores to use curbside pickup or delivery only instead of potential contamination in the stores, since grocery stores were literally one of the only public places that were open in full a couple weeks ago? Seems fishy to me.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ozarkman417 on April 09, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
Post by: ozarkman417 on April 09, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
A couple of weeks ago, my father, over 65, recieved his second dose of Moderna. A month before that, my mother, a healthcare worker, did the same. My school district, in a couple of weeks, will offer vaccinations. I plan to partake in that program.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 09, 2021, 05:45:06 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 09, 2021, 05:45:06 PM
I hope to get mine next week.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: wxfree on April 10, 2021, 01:46:58 AM
Post by: wxfree on April 10, 2021, 01:46:58 AM
I got my first dose of Pfizer this week. On the first day, my arm was sore, very minor. The second day, it still hurt very slightly if I touched it, but otherwise I didn't even notice it. Then it was better. It would probably hurt that much if you just stuck a sewing needle in there and pulled it back out.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on April 10, 2021, 08:08:37 PM
Post by: ilpt4u on April 10, 2021, 08:08:37 PM
My 2nd Pfizer does is yet to be scheduled. Per my vaccination record card, I am due for shot two on April 15, which is Thursday
Supposedly I am supposed to get an email from the county health department to schedule dose 2. If I don't see/hear anything by Monday at lunch time, I'm going to contact them to schedule shot/dose 2
Supposedly I am supposed to get an email from the county health department to schedule dose 2. If I don't see/hear anything by Monday at lunch time, I'm going to contact them to schedule shot/dose 2
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Brandon on April 10, 2021, 08:14:06 PM
Post by: Brandon on April 10, 2021, 08:14:06 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 10, 2021, 08:08:37 PM
My 2nd Pfizer does is yet to be scheduled. Per my vaccination record card, I am due for shot two on April 15, which is Thursday
Supposedly I am supposed to get an email from the county health department to schedule dose 2. If I don't see/hear anything by Monday at lunch time, I'm going to contact them to schedule shot/dose 2
Nice. I wound up going to the statewide vaccination site in Quincy, run by Adams County, last Tuesday (4/6).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on April 10, 2021, 08:26:18 PM
Post by: ilpt4u on April 10, 2021, 08:26:18 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2021, 08:14:06 PMI've heard from local restaurants around Jackson County that plenty of Chicagolanders have been coming down this way to get the vaccine at the SIU Arena or Carbondale Civic Center (city hall), both of which are open to any IL citizen and are run by IL National Guardsmen/Guardswomen - and then stopping in to get a bite to eat =)Quote from: ilpt4u on April 10, 2021, 08:08:37 PMNice. I wound up going to the statewide vaccination site in Quincy, run by Adams County, last Tuesday (4/6).
My 2nd Pfizer does is yet to be scheduled. Per my vaccination record card, I am due for shot two on April 15, which is Thursday
Supposedly I am supposed to get an email from the county health department to schedule dose 2. If I don't see/hear anything by Monday at lunch time, I'm going to contact them to schedule shot/dose 2
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 09:13:42 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 09:13:42 PM
Oklahoma is apparently opening up vaccinations to non-residents, one of the first states to do so. So if anyone wants an excuse to take a trip to the South Plains during tornado season...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 10, 2021, 10:19:51 PM
Post by: US 89 on April 10, 2021, 10:19:51 PM
I'm eligible for my second dose starting April 26th. Supposed to get an email when appointments open up.
As a side note, I just got a 12 pack of hard seltzer from a local bar for free by showing them my CDC vaccine card.
As a side note, I just got a 12 pack of hard seltzer from a local bar for free by showing them my CDC vaccine card.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US71 on April 11, 2021, 01:35:45 PM
Post by: US71 on April 11, 2021, 01:35:45 PM
Got mine Saturday (yesterday) "one and done". There were 2 cars ahead of me and one after me. I rolled down my widow, confirmed my identity, then got the shot while sitting in the car. There was also a place to park for 15 minutes "just in case" someone had a reaction.
I'm happy to report no problems, though I overslept this morning.
I'm happy to report no problems, though I overslept this morning.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 11, 2021, 04:16:37 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 11, 2021, 04:16:37 PM
Update!
Someone cancelled an appointment they had scheduled for today and I happened to be on the website at just the right time last night to snag it as it popped up. I have now successfully been injected with Pfizer's packaging of viral mRNA.
They set up my second appointment right as I went to the post-shot waiting area, it is scheduled for exactly 3 weeks and 50 minutes after my first (Sunday 5/2).
They also gave me a nice plastic sleeve for my card, so no debate about whether to laminate it.
Someone cancelled an appointment they had scheduled for today and I happened to be on the website at just the right time last night to snag it as it popped up. I have now successfully been injected with Pfizer's packaging of viral mRNA.
They set up my second appointment right as I went to the post-shot waiting area, it is scheduled for exactly 3 weeks and 50 minutes after my first (Sunday 5/2).
They also gave me a nice plastic sleeve for my card, so no debate about whether to laminate it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 07:32:21 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 07:32:21 PM
Funny thing about the cards: my first dose was done by the Pontotoc County Health Department, and they stuck a great big giant sticker on the face of the card with "PONTOTOC CHD", Pfizer, and the lot number. This meant that when I got my second dose from the McIntosh County Health Department they had to squeeze in the 2nd dose on the "Other" line at the bottom of the card, handwritten.
I wonder if that would cause any problems getting a vaccine passport in the states that offer them.
I wonder if that would cause any problems getting a vaccine passport in the states that offer them.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 11, 2021, 08:14:43 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on April 11, 2021, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 09:13:42 PMOne of? Far from it! Iowa allowed out-of-staters to get shots within its borders for quite some time. (I got mine in Dubuque)
Oklahoma is apparently opening up vaccinations to non-residents, one of the first states to do so. So if anyone wants an excuse to take a trip to the South Plains during tornado season...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 08:41:56 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 11, 2021, 08:14:43 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 09:13:42 PMOne of? Far from it! Iowa allowed out-of-staters to get shots within its borders for quite some time. (I got mine in Dubuque)
Oklahoma is apparently opening up vaccinations to non-residents, one of the first states to do so. So if anyone wants an excuse to take a trip to the South Plains during tornado season...
one of the first = not necessarily the first but before most others
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on April 11, 2021, 08:56:18 PM
Post by: SectorZ on April 11, 2021, 08:56:18 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 09:13:42 PM
Oklahoma is apparently opening up vaccinations to non-residents, one of the first states to do so. So if anyone wants an excuse to take a trip to the South Plains during tornado season...
New Hampshire starts the same 4/19.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ET21 on April 12, 2021, 09:46:57 AM
Post by: ET21 on April 12, 2021, 09:46:57 AM
2nd jab this Thursday, I need my free 5G interwebs :-D
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 12, 2021, 10:32:11 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 12, 2021, 10:32:11 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 08:41:56 PMQuote from: SSOWorld on April 11, 2021, 08:14:43 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 09:13:42 PMOne of? Far from it! Iowa allowed out-of-staters to get shots within its borders for quite some time. (I got mine in Dubuque)
Oklahoma is apparently opening up vaccinations to non-residents, one of the first states to do so. So if anyone wants an excuse to take a trip to the South Plains during tornado season...
one of the first = not necessarily the first but before most others
To my knowledge, Colorado has never had a residency requirement.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 12, 2021, 12:07:32 PM
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 12, 2021, 12:07:32 PM
Got my 2nd jab of Pfizer yesterday - I may have popped a small fever overnight, and then woke up with aches that went away once I took ibuprofen.
Reverse for me - They wrote in my 1st dose information by hand, but then put on a sticker for my 2nd dose yesterday (but unlike you, I went to the same location/provider for both).
I have yet to try this, but apparently Krispy Kreme is offering 1 free glazed donut (no purchase required) per person if you show your vaccine card. And since they won't store any information, you can get as many free donuts as you want until the promotion ends!
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 07:32:21 PM
Funny thing about the cards: my first dose was done by the Pontotoc County Health Department, and they stuck a great big giant sticker on the face of the card with "PONTOTOC CHD", Pfizer, and the lot number. This meant that when I got my second dose from the McIntosh County Health Department they had to squeeze in the 2nd dose on the "Other" line at the bottom of the card, handwritten.
I wonder if that would cause any problems getting a vaccine passport in the states that offer them.
Reverse for me - They wrote in my 1st dose information by hand, but then put on a sticker for my 2nd dose yesterday (but unlike you, I went to the same location/provider for both).
Quote from: US 89 on April 10, 2021, 10:19:51 PM
As a side note, I just got a 12 pack of hard seltzer from a local bar for free by showing them my CDC vaccine card.
I have yet to try this, but apparently Krispy Kreme is offering 1 free glazed donut (no purchase required) per person if you show your vaccine card. And since they won't store any information, you can get as many free donuts as you want until the promotion ends!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 12, 2021, 04:59:50 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 12, 2021, 04:59:50 PM
I'm guessing the single dose (J&J) one will count as "both shots". I will be getting it in the afternoon (after school) at 3:45pm on Friday.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2021, 05:26:26 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2021, 05:26:26 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 11, 2021, 08:14:43 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 09:13:42 PMOne of? Far from it! Iowa allowed out-of-staters to get shots within its borders for quite some time. (I got mine in Dubuque)
Oklahoma is apparently opening up vaccinations to non-residents, one of the first states to do so. So if anyone wants an excuse to take a trip to the South Plains during tornado season...
NJ has allowed those that work in NJ but live elsewhere to get the shot. And being no evidence is required, anyone can come in from elsewhere as long as they meet one of the gazillion permissions.
I've also seen people say they've traveled into NY from NJ to get the shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on April 12, 2021, 05:48:15 PM
Post by: SectorZ on April 12, 2021, 05:48:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 12, 2021, 04:59:50 PM
I'm guessing the single dose (J&J) one will count as "both shots". I will be getting it in the afternoon (after school) at 3:45pm on Friday.
Usually on the vaccine reports that states put out it's just a separate category. More importantly for you it means fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AM
Post by: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AM
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Zeffy on April 13, 2021, 08:46:27 AM
Post by: Zeffy on April 13, 2021, 08:46:27 AM
I got the J&J shot yesterday randomly walking through a supermarket. Turns out they had extra doses and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Other than soreness and some muscle aches, nothing to report. The blood clotting thing has my hypochondriac side on alert though...
Other than soreness and some muscle aches, nothing to report. The blood clotting thing has my hypochondriac side on alert though...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
Quote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AMQuote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:48:24 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:48:24 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AMAll in women... hopefully it gets re-approved soon.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AMQuote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 13, 2021, 09:52:25 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 13, 2021, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AM
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
The day after pretty much all the Nationals' players received that vaccine (although I note Roadgeekteen's comment that all the clotting issues have apparently been in women, so hopefully that holds true in this particular instance).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:58:11 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:58:11 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 13, 2021, 09:52:25 AMhttps://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/johnson-johnson-covid-vaccine-pause-blood-clot-cases-fda/Quote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AM
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
The day after pretty much all the Nationals' players received that vaccine (although I note Roadgeekteen's comment that all the clotting issues have apparently been in women, so hopefully that holds true in this particular instance).
Women between the ages of 18 and 48
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 10:06:37 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 10:06:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AMQuote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
This is going to get people killed. 6 people had an issue and none of them died. Or we can not vaccinate people and assuredly people will die. Not to mention this will create vaccine hesitancy among people who were already on the fence. Idiotic messaging. It's tough to follow the science if the scientists in charge of this shit are that bad at math.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:29:15 AM
Post by: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:29:15 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 10:06:37 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AMQuote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
This is going to get people killed. 6 people had an issue and none of them died. Or we can not vaccinate people and assuredly people will die. Not to mention this will create vaccine hesitancy among people who were already on the fence. Idiotic messaging. It's tough to follow the science if the scientists in charge of this shit are that bad at math.
There are two sides to the coin. If it didn't become a big story and people thought it was being covered up, that would also reduce their trust in the vaccine. Ultimately, I think it does pay to be cautious. If the issued are looked into and resolved, trust in the vaccine and the process will increase.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 10:40:49 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:29:15 AMThey need to emphasize that the mRNA vaccines are completely different.Quote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 10:06:37 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AMQuote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
This is going to get people killed. 6 people had an issue and none of them died. Or we can not vaccinate people and assuredly people will die. Not to mention this will create vaccine hesitancy among people who were already on the fence. Idiotic messaging. It's tough to follow the science if the scientists in charge of this shit are that bad at math.
There are two sides to the coin. If it didn't become a big story and people thought it was being covered up, that would also reduce their trust in the vaccine. Ultimately, I think it does pay to be cautious. If the issued are looked into and resolved, trust in the vaccine and the process will increase.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on April 13, 2021, 10:44:16 AM
Post by: Mapmikey on April 13, 2021, 10:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AMQuote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
This is quite a bit lower risk than birth control pills and blood clots
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 10:44:47 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 10:44:47 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:29:15 AMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 10:06:37 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AMQuote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
This is going to get people killed. 6 people had an issue and none of them died. Or we can not vaccinate people and assuredly people will die. Not to mention this will create vaccine hesitancy among people who were already on the fence. Idiotic messaging. It's tough to follow the science if the scientists in charge of this shit are that bad at math.
There are two sides to the coin. If it didn't become a big story and people thought it was being covered up, that would also reduce their trust in the vaccine. Ultimately, I think it does pay to be cautious. If the issued are looked into and resolved, trust in the vaccine and the process will increase.
Like I said, it's all about the messaging. They could very easily have said "Yes, we have seen very isolated cases of side effects which are to be expected in any vaccine. We will be diligent in monitoring any and all adverse effects, but at this time, there is no indication that such effects are prevalent enough to make us doubt the vaccine's effectiveness." But no, they spaz out and pull something that will likely save something on the order of 5,000-10,000 lives. I don't get it.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 11:11:38 AM
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 11:11:38 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 10:06:37 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2021, 09:46:50 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 09:36:37 AMQuote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMYikes
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
For 6 instances out of 6.8 million doses...
This is going to get people killed. 6 people had an issue and none of them died. Or we can not vaccinate people and assuredly people will die. Not to mention this will create vaccine hesitancy among people who were already on the fence. Idiotic messaging. It's tough to follow the science if the scientists in charge of this shit are that bad at math.
Chris
I would argue it's the government bureaucrats in charge of this stuff. The government is stupidly risk averse. They're more afraid of lawsuits down the road than COVID.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:13:12 AM
Post by: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:13:12 AM
NY has paused the J&J vaccine: https://wnyt.com/news/new-york-pauses-jandj-vaccine-/6073674/
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:26:01 AM
Post by: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:26:01 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 10:44:47 AM
Like I said, it's all about the messaging. They could very easily have said "Yes, we have seen very isolated cases of side effects which are to be expected in any vaccine. We will be diligent in monitoring any and all adverse effects, but at this time, there is no indication that such effects are prevalent enough to make us doubt the vaccine's effectiveness." But no, they spaz out and pull something that will likely save something on the order of 5,000-10,000 lives. I don't get it.
How would you feel if you were one of the people that got blood clots? It makes sense to review it. It's not like people don't have other vaccination options, and many of the highest-risk people have already been vaccinated. No idea where the 5-10K number comes from.
Also, side effects and effectiveness are two totally different things. I wouldn't assume any adverse side effects are related to the vaccine effectiveness in any way.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 13, 2021, 11:27:52 AM
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 13, 2021, 11:27:52 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:13:12 AM
NY has paused the J&J vaccine: https://wnyt.com/news/new-york-pauses-jandj-vaccine-/6073674/
Looks like MD is heading that direction too:
https://twitter.com/GoVaxMD/status/1381970583655710723
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 13, 2021, 11:33:42 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 13, 2021, 11:33:42 AM
Virginia as well. (https://wtop.com/virginia/2021/04/virginia-pauses-johnson-johnson-vaccines-after-fda-recommendation/) Glad I'm due to receive the second Pfizer shot in a few days.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
Post by: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 13, 2021, 11:27:52 AMQuote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:13:12 AM
NY has paused the J&J vaccine: https://wnyt.com/news/new-york-pauses-jandj-vaccine-/6073674/
Looks like MD is heading that direction too:
https://twitter.com/GoVaxMD/status/1381970583655710723
So is NC.
https://wr.al/1KL9W (https://wr.al/1KL9W)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 13, 2021, 11:55:05 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 13, 2021, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: LM117 on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AMFor fuck's sake...
The CDC and FDA are recommending that the J&J vaccine be put on hold while they review cases of blood clots.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-on-johnson--johnson-covid-19-vaccine-301267526.html)
So I guess on Friday I will be given something else.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 12:10:54 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:26:01 AM
How would you feel if you were one of the people that got blood clots? It makes sense to review it. It's not like people don't have other vaccination options, and many of the highest-risk people have already been vaccinated. No idea where the 5-10K number comes from.
I'd be unhappy if I were one of those people. I'd also be very unhappy if more people died than needed to. I came up with that number from something I read the other day saying if we maintained the pace of our current vaccinations until herd immunity, we'd save another 30,000 lives. J&J vaccines are a subset of all the vaccines, hence the 5-10K number.
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:26:01 AM
Also, side effects and effectiveness are two totally different things. I wouldn't assume any adverse side effects are related to the vaccine effectiveness in any way.
Maybe I chose the wrong word, but when I said effectiveness, I didn't mean "efficacy". I meant that it was doing what we were trying to do, which is get this country back to normal as quickly as possible.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 13, 2021, 12:40:47 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 13, 2021, 12:40:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:26:01 AMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 10:44:47 AM
Like I said, it's all about the messaging. They could very easily have said "Yes, we have seen very isolated cases of side effects which are to be expected in any vaccine. We will be diligent in monitoring any and all adverse effects, but at this time, there is no indication that such effects are prevalent enough to make us doubt the vaccine's effectiveness." But no, they spaz out and pull something that will likely save something on the order of 5,000-10,000 lives. I don't get it.
How would you feel if you were one of the people that got blood clots? It makes sense to review it. It's not like people don't have other vaccination options, and many of the highest-risk people have already been vaccinated. No idea where the 5-10K number comes from.
Also, side effects and effectiveness are two totally different things. I wouldn't assume any adverse side effects are related to the vaccine effectiveness in any way.
Take some time to look into it, yes, but these blood clots have affected 6 out of 6.5 million who got the J & J vaccine, or .00009%
Meanwhile, COVID-19 has killed 562,000 of 331 million Americans, or .0017%.
If Pfizer and Moderna can make up the difference, great. If not, it's still a better bet to get the J&J vaccine than none at all.
I just got home from getting my 2nd Pfizer shot. Will let you know if I get any side effects. My wife ran a fever and felt like she had been run over by a truck for several hours, beginning about 6 hours after her 2nd Pfizer shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 12:47:53 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 11:26:01 AMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 10:44:47 AM
Like I said, it's all about the messaging. They could very easily have said "Yes, we have seen very isolated cases of side effects which are to be expected in any vaccine. We will be diligent in monitoring any and all adverse effects, but at this time, there is no indication that such effects are prevalent enough to make us doubt the vaccine's effectiveness." But no, they spaz out and pull something that will likely save something on the order of 5,000-10,000 lives. I don't get it.
How would you feel if you were one of the people that got blood clots? It makes sense to review it. It's not like people don't have other vaccination options, and many of the highest-risk people have already been vaccinated.
You could say that about the other widely-used medications that cause blood clots and potentially fatal side effects that are still taken by tons of people. Again, birth control. 1 out of every 1000 people who takes birth control has a blood clot. 6 people isn't necessarily enough for a causal link.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 13, 2021, 01:06:33 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on April 13, 2021, 01:06:33 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/55h96u.jpg)
Good thing I'm already started on Moderna
Good thing I'm already started on Moderna
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 02 Park Ave on April 13, 2021, 01:36:23 PM
Post by: 02 Park Ave on April 13, 2021, 01:36:23 PM
Clalit has found that the B.1.351 variant has broken through the Pfizer vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 01:41:23 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 01:41:23 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on April 13, 2021, 01:36:23 PM
Clalit has found that the B.1.351 variant has broken through the Pfizer vaccine.
In a sample size of 400 people. That has a high likelihood of being statistically insignificant.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 01:54:43 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 01:54:43 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 01:41:23 PMQuote from: 02 Park Ave on April 13, 2021, 01:36:23 PM
Clalit has found that the B.1.351 variant has broken through the Pfizer vaccine.
In a sample size of 400 people. That has a high likelihood of being statistically insignificant.
Chris
And EVERY CASE was before the second dose. The two dose regimen is still pretty solid.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Big John on April 13, 2021, 02:51:37 PM
Post by: Big John on April 13, 2021, 02:51:37 PM
Just got my vaccine - it was Pfiser and already got the appointment for the 2nd shot in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 02:53:16 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 02:53:16 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 13, 2021, 01:41:23 PMAlso, people infected had fewer symptoms.Quote from: 02 Park Ave on April 13, 2021, 01:36:23 PM
Clalit has found that the B.1.351 variant has broken through the Pfizer vaccine.
In a sample size of 400 people. That has a high likelihood of being statistically insignificant.
Chris
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/rare-instances-south-africa-variant-evade-pfizer-vaccine/story?id=77020482
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
Clotting issues were also noted in the Astra-Zeneca shot, which isn't available in the United States. Is it closer to the J&J shot, or the Pfizer-Moderna one?
And why is it called "Johnson & Johnson" when the labeling says "Janssen?"
And why is it called "Johnson & Johnson" when the labeling says "Janssen?"
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 13, 2021, 03:26:21 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 13, 2021, 03:26:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
Clotting issues were also noted in the Astra-Zeneca shot, which isn't available in the United States. Is it closer to the J&J shot, or the Pfizer-Moderna one?
From what I understand, blood clotting symptoms cannot occur via mRNA vaccines, which both Pfizer and Moderna are.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 03:28:14 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
Clotting issues were also noted in the Astra-Zeneca shot, which isn't available in the United States. Is it closer to the J&J shot, or the Pfizer-Moderna one?
It's like the J&J. Adenovirus based vs. mRNA.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
And why is it called "Johnson & Johnson" when the labeling says "Janssen?"
Johnson & Johnson owns Janssen Pharmaceuticals.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 03:45:32 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 03:45:32 PM
The exact same type of clotting occurred with J&J and AZ. These are both the same type of vaccine. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines (effectively the same, except Moderna is much larger dose) have not seen this side effect.
It should be noted that women are more likely to have this condition occur. There are a few million cases of this blood clotting condition each year, 3/4 of which are in women. Large variety of things can cause it, so unless there are a LOT more cases we don't know about, there isn't enough to establish a causal link between the vaccine and clotting.
It should be noted that women are more likely to have this condition occur. There are a few million cases of this blood clotting condition each year, 3/4 of which are in women. Large variety of things can cause it, so unless there are a LOT more cases we don't know about, there isn't enough to establish a causal link between the vaccine and clotting.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 12, 2021, 12:07:32 PM
I have yet to try this, but apparently Krispy Kreme is offering 1 free glazed donut (no purchase required) per person if you show your vaccine card. And since they won't store any information, you can get as many free donuts as you want until the promotion ends!
My wife and I had to laugh at this. At least around here, they give you a free donut just for walking into the store anyway! Plenty of people take advantage of the situation. Half the times I'm in Krispy Kreme, more people walk in and get a free donut and leave than actually pay for something.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:33:36 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:33:36 PM
re: Pulling the J&J
A hastily approved vaccine starts showing sign of having a side-effect that needs further study, so they pull it. I fail to see what's stupid about that. The goal of approving a vaccine isn't "make it less deadly than the virus". The bar is and should be just a wee bit higher than that.
Plenty of people were hesitant to be vaccinated because they thought the vaccines were rushed through and they're worried about heretofore-unknown side-effects. In my opinion, this should make people even more confident in the process.
A hastily approved vaccine starts showing sign of having a side-effect that needs further study, so they pull it. I fail to see what's stupid about that. The goal of approving a vaccine isn't "make it less deadly than the virus". The bar is and should be just a wee bit higher than that.
Plenty of people were hesitant to be vaccinated because they thought the vaccines were rushed through and they're worried about heretofore-unknown side-effects. In my opinion, this should make people even more confident in the process.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 04:44:56 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2021, 04:44:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:33:36 PM
re: Pulling the J&J
A hastily approved vaccine starts showing sign of having a side-effect that needs further study, so they pull it. I fail to see what's stupid about that. The goal of approving a vaccine isn't "make it less deadly than the virus". The bar is and should be just a wee bit higher than that.
Plenty of people were hesitant to be vaccinated because they thought the vaccines were rushed through and they're worried about heretofore-unknown side-effects. In my opinion, this should make people even more confident in the process.
I don't know. To some degree, I liken it to someone breaking into your house with a gun. You're likely to rely on any weapon that's nearby to try to protect yourself whether that be your own gun, a knife, or a set of keys. Obviously some of those work better than others, but it's still better than not trying to do anything. (I'm aware this example isn't 100% analogous.)
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 04:46:53 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:33:36 PM
Plenty of people were hesitant to be vaccinated because they thought the vaccines were rushed through and they're worried about heretofore-unknown side-effects. In my opinion, this should make people even more confident in the process.
That's not what I'm seeing in antivax circles. The opinion over there seems to be "see, we told you so, maybe the others also have problems".
People interpret the pause as "the vaccine isn't safe". Look at how Europe reacted to the AZ vaccine being pulled. Hesitancy over there didn't consistently decrease after the review process- it either stayed steady or increased in many countries and you have a lot of people unwilling to take the AZ vaccine now. This is becoming a big problem over there, as people are only willing to get jabbed if they can get Pfizer or Moderna.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 13, 2021, 04:50:03 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 13, 2021, 04:50:03 PM
Regarding B.1.351 (the South African variant), the report I've seen is that it is associated with a three-fold and six-fold reduction in neutralization activity with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines respectively. The Sinopharm vaccine is associated with a much smaller drop (factor of 1.6). I'm not sure precisely what this all means in terms of efficacy. The South Africans have given up on AstraZeneca, selling their unused stocks to other African countries, and are now testing Sputnik V, which has shown 90% efficacy in testing outside Russia.
The South African variant appears not to be appreciably more transmissible than original covid. I'm actually a bit more worried about the new and improved version of the British variant, B.1.1.7, as it has the E484K mutation that is associated with enhanced resistance to vaccines.
As for Johnson & Johnson being pulled, the investigation is supposed to wrap within a matter of "days." We'll see. I suspect this may ultimately prove to be less significant than the production hiccup that spoiled 15 million doses.
The South African variant appears not to be appreciably more transmissible than original covid. I'm actually a bit more worried about the new and improved version of the British variant, B.1.1.7, as it has the E484K mutation that is associated with enhanced resistance to vaccines.
As for Johnson & Johnson being pulled, the investigation is supposed to wrap within a matter of "days." We'll see. I suspect this may ultimately prove to be less significant than the production hiccup that spoiled 15 million doses.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jemacedo9 on April 13, 2021, 04:54:04 PM
Post by: jemacedo9 on April 13, 2021, 04:54:04 PM
The issue isn't just "blood clotting" in general.
It's a specific clotting issue...its clots which have occurred in veins that drain blood from the brain.
In addition, the 6 women had decreased platelet counts, the fragments in blood that normally form clots.
And then on top of that, there is a concern about using the typical clot treatment, the blood-thinner heparin. "In this setting, administration of heparin may be dangerous and alternative treatments need to be given," the FDA and CDC said.
It's a specific clotting issue...its clots which have occurred in veins that drain blood from the brain.
In addition, the 6 women had decreased platelet counts, the fragments in blood that normally form clots.
And then on top of that, there is a concern about using the typical clot treatment, the blood-thinner heparin. "In this setting, administration of heparin may be dangerous and alternative treatments need to be given," the FDA and CDC said.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 05:03:59 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 05:03:59 PM
I just see it as the system working the way it's supposed to.
Well, I personally know people who aren't anti-vaxxers but are still hesitating to get vaccinated for the reason I stated. I haven't talked to them about this latest development, however.
Quote from: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 04:46:53 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:33:36 PM
Plenty of people were hesitant to be vaccinated because they thought the vaccines were rushed through and they're worried about heretofore-unknown side-effects. In my opinion, this should make people even more confident in the process.
That's not what I'm seeing in antivax circles. The opinion over there seems to be "see, we told you so, maybe the others also have problems".
Well, I personally know people who aren't anti-vaxxers but are still hesitating to get vaccinated for the reason I stated. I haven't talked to them about this latest development, however.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on April 13, 2021, 05:17:13 PM
Post by: Jim on April 13, 2021, 05:17:13 PM
People's reactions to this "pause", like so much of what we've seen in the era of COVID-19, demonstrates the massive failure of mathematics education over at least a few decades. I don't know enough to judge how appropriate it was to issue the advisory to states to pause J&J usage, but I do know so many people's reactions indicate a total lack of ability to understand very large numbers and very small probabilities, and to compare the relative risks of various courses of action. When someone says "why do I need to learn all this math" or "why do I have to help my kid through all this math", I think we have an excellent response.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on April 13, 2021, 06:49:08 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on April 13, 2021, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 05:03:59 PM
Well, I personally know people who aren't anti-vaxxers but are still hesitating to get vaccinated for the reason I stated.
That's me in a nutshell. I am in no way an anti-vaxxer, but I would still like to see a bit more research done before I get it. That's just part of my personality. I'm also iffy about the small risk of anaphylactic shock, because I'm deathly allergic to a couple things, and could see the new proteins in the mRNA vaccine potentially triggering such a reaction considering my other allergies. Dr. Fauci himself indicated this, and several European doctors recommended that those with allergy problems (such as yours truly) avoid getting the vaccine. I would rather get Covid again than stick an Epi-Pen in my leg.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 13, 2021, 07:18:53 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 13, 2021, 07:18:53 PM
I have a nasty set of allergies and have had no problems with the Pfizer vaccination.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: I-55 on April 13, 2021, 07:48:46 PM
Post by: I-55 on April 13, 2021, 07:48:46 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 13, 2021, 07:18:53 PM
I have a nasty set of allergies and have had no problems with the Pfizer vaccination.
Good, because I get my first in a week (Pfizer).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
Of the three, Pfizer seems to be the best with side effects. My only side effect after dose 1 of Pfizer was a sore arm. That seems to be a common trend. Of people I know who have gotten a second dose of Pfizer, it's split as to whether or not they had side effects, but they tend to be minor.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 09:24:36 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 09:24:36 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
Of the three, Pfizer seems to be the best with side effects. My only side effect after dose 1 of Pfizer was a sore arm. That seems to be a common trend. Of people I know who have gotten a second dose of Pfizer, it's split as to whether or not they had side effects, but they tend to be minor.
Most side-effects do seem to be minor, of the people I know. One's developed into bronchitis, and a couple had acute side-effects. But, other than the bronchitis guy, nobody I know who has gotten Pfizer has had side-effects last longer than two days.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on April 13, 2021, 10:03:47 PM
Post by: oscar on April 13, 2021, 10:03:47 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 29, 2021, 11:55:29 AM
I'm not done with vaccinations just yet, need to schedule a Shingrix booster shot at least two weeks from now, that had been delayed for my Covid vaccine shots.
I had scheduled the Shingrix booster shot for exactly two weeks from my second Pfizer shot. That was OK with the human being who took my scheduling call (non-Covid vaccinations are among the miscellaneous procedures you can't schedule online). But when I went in yesterday for my Shingrix appointment, the nurse sheepishly told me that the health plan's computer system wouldn't let her give me the Shingrix shot until two weeks plus one day after my second Pfizer shot.
So I went back today to get the Shingrix shot. Sore arm, like all my other vaccinations (Covid and otherwise) this year.
Just a cautionary note for those of you needing other vaccinations, and tempted to schedule them too close to your Covid shot(s).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 13, 2021, 10:19:59 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 13, 2021, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 13, 2021, 04:46:53 PMI'm sure the anti-vax crowd would be finding something to say regardless. If the government didn't pause this, they'd be saying it's a cover-up or plot of some kind.Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2021, 04:33:36 PM
Plenty of people were hesitant to be vaccinated because they thought the vaccines were rushed through and they're worried about heretofore-unknown side-effects. In my opinion, this should make people even more confident in the process.
That's not what I'm seeing in antivax circles. The opinion over there seems to be "see, we told you so, maybe the others also have problems".
People interpret the pause as "the vaccine isn't safe". Look at how Europe reacted to the AZ vaccine being pulled. Hesitancy over there didn't consistently decrease after the review process- it either stayed steady or increased in many countries and you have a lot of people unwilling to take the AZ vaccine now. This is becoming a big problem over there, as people are only willing to get jabbed if they can get Pfizer or Moderna.
And honestly, with the questions surrounding AZ's trial data, and how more issues seem to be found every time they're cleared up, there's no way in hell that I would have been willing to get that vaccine even BEFORE the blood clot thing. Plus who wants to take two shots for a vaccine that's no more effective than the J&J one that only needs one shot?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 3467 on April 13, 2021, 10:26:28 PM
Post by: 3467 on April 13, 2021, 10:26:28 PM
The second Shingrx really made me sick a couple of days. JNJ a little sore the next day.
My pharmacist was volunteering to help with a bad site. She now has my concerns about PFE. Not sure effects but lower effects from improper handling.
My pharmacist was volunteering to help with a bad site. She now has my concerns about PFE. Not sure effects but lower effects from improper handling.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:31:03 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 13, 2021, 10:19:59 PMOne thing that hasn't been mentioned much in this discussion, and shouldn't be underrated, is that many people are more willing to get vaccinated if it's only one shot.
I'm sure the anti-vax crowd would be finding something to say regardless. If the government didn't pause this, they'd be saying it's a cover-up or plot of some kind.
And honestly, with the questions surrounding AZ's trial data, and how more issues seem to be found every time they're cleared up, there's no way in hell that I would have been willing to get that vaccine even BEFORE the blood clot thing. Plus who wants to take two shots for a vaccine that's no more effective than the J&J one that only needs one shot?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 14, 2021, 12:46:33 AM
Post by: Duke87 on April 14, 2021, 12:46:33 AM
Quote from: Jim on April 13, 2021, 05:17:13 PM
People's reactions to this "pause", like so much of what we've seen in the era of COVID-19, demonstrates the massive failure of mathematics education over at least a few decades.
Even moreso than that, lack of critical thinking skills. You know how most people only read the headline of an article and immediately jump to conclusions? Yeah.
At any rate, I have to echo the sentiment that this is government bureaucracy... doing what it does. They're following the standard procedure for when a potential problem with a drug is spotted. Said procedure never considered the possibility that delaying administration of a particular drug might carry far greater risk than continuing to administer it in spite of a potential problem, because said procedure was not written with battling an active pandemic in mind. But since it is the procedure, the bureaucracy will follow it, consequences be damned.
The FDA is likely relatively powerless to push back against hesitancy arising from this issue anyway - freedom of the press means they don't get to control the message. Sensationalized news about blood clots was going to spread around and freak people out regardless of what the FDA did, so they might as well cover their asses.
Of course, that ass-covering will inevitably be interpreted as an admission from the government that the J&J vaccine is not safe, and this will persist long after the government clears it for use again. If you doubt this, look no further than how many people still say they will refuse to fly on a 737 MAX because they don't trust it is safe. When you approve something, pull it due to safety concerns, then reapprove it, you naturally trigger a "fool me once..." mentality in people.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 14, 2021, 02:56:29 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 14, 2021, 02:56:29 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 13, 2021, 04:50:03 PM
I'm actually a bit more worried about the new and improved version of the British variant, B.1.1.7, as it has the E484K mutation that is associated with enhanced resistance to vaccines.
Isn't one of the benefits of the mRNA vaccines that the the mRNA code can be quickly rewritten to target specific variants and mutations? So it would be possible for Pfizer and Moderna to release a vaccine v1.1 and administer it as a booster shot?
Quote from: Jim on April 13, 2021, 05:17:13 PM
People's reactions to this "pause", like so much of what we've seen in the era of COVID-19, demonstrates the massive failure of mathematics education over at least a few decades. I don't know enough to judge how appropriate it was to issue the advisory to states to pause J&J usage, but I do know so many people's reactions indicate a total lack of ability to understand very large numbers and very small probabilities, and to compare the relative risks of various courses of action. When someone says "why do I need to learn all this math" or "why do I have to help my kid through all this math", I think we have an excellent response.
Problem is that, in my math education, we spent months and months on things like how to graph parabolas and didn't even touch on probability. No wonder Oklahoma has so many casinos...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on April 14, 2021, 09:10:21 AM
Post by: Mapmikey on April 14, 2021, 09:10:21 AM
Quote from: Jim on April 13, 2021, 05:17:13 PM
People's reactions to this "pause", like so much of what we've seen in the era of COVID-19, demonstrates the massive failure of mathematics education over at least a few decades. I don't know enough to judge how appropriate it was to issue the advisory to states to pause J&J usage, but I do know so many people's reactions indicate a total lack of ability to understand very large numbers and very small probabilities, and to compare the relative risks of various courses of action. When someone says "why do I need to learn all this math" or "why do I have to help my kid through all this math", I think we have an excellent response.
A version of this happens in my field of work, too (Health Physics/Occupational Radiation Safety), when interacting with members of the public or employees who have no formal training with radioactive material and principles surrounding it. Because radiation cannot be seen or otherwise sensed by humans, a lot of people struggle with concepts surrounding the quantification of it.
For example I can talk about the difference/relationship between a foot and a mile and people understand what that is. If I instead say I have a (traditional unit) Curie of radioactive material (a large unit - 37 billion decays per sec) or a SI unit Becquerel (a tiny unit - 1 decay per sec). People don't really know what that means.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 14, 2021, 10:35:42 AM
Post by: kphoger on April 14, 2021, 10:35:42 AM
Quote from: Jim on April 13, 2021, 05:17:13 PM
People's reactions to this "pause", like so much of what we've seen in the era of COVID-19, demonstrates the massive failure of mathematics education over at least a few decades. I don't know enough to judge how appropriate it was to issue the advisory to states to pause J&J usage, but I do know so many people's reactions indicate a total lack of ability to understand very large numbers and very small probabilities, and to compare the relative risks of various courses of action. When someone says "why do I need to learn all this math" or "why do I have to help my kid through all this math", I think we have an excellent response.
I am, however, confident that the CDC and FDA have a good understanding of probability and large numbers.
Quote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:31:03 PM
One thing that hasn't been mentioned much in this discussion, and shouldn't be underrated, is that many people are more willing to get vaccinated if it's only one shot.
I haven't heard that from any person I know. The people I know just want to get whatever has the least severe side-effects.
Quote from: Duke87 on April 14, 2021, 12:46:33 AM
At any rate, I have to echo the sentiment that this is government bureaucracy... doing what it does. They're following the standard procedure for when a potential problem with a drug is spotted. Said procedure never considered the possibility that delaying administration of a particular drug might carry far greater risk than continuing to administer it in spite of a potential problem, because said procedure was not written with battling an active pandemic in mind. But since it is the procedure, the bureaucracy will follow it, consequences be damned.
Actually, I assume the procedures were written with that possibility in mind. Their job is to ensure that the products they approve are safe for use–and that job doesn't change just because of current events. Whether there is an ongoing pandemic or not, their job is still to ensure that the products they approve are safe for use. I imagine the possibility of greater potential harm was in everyone's mind, but they understood their responsibility to be for only their piece of the whole puzzle.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 14, 2021, 12:10:08 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 14, 2021, 12:10:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 14, 2021, 02:56:29 AMQuote from: J N Winkler on April 13, 2021, 04:50:03 PMI'm actually a bit more worried about the new and improved version of the British variant, B.1.1.7, as it has the E484K mutation that is associated with enhanced resistance to vaccines.
Isn't one of the benefits of the mRNA vaccines that the the mRNA code can be quickly rewritten to target specific variants and mutations? So it would be possible for Pfizer and Moderna to release a vaccine v1.1 and administer it as a booster shot?
Yes, and in fact Moderna has a booster under development that specifically targets the South African variant (mRNA-1273.351; original Moderna is mRNA-1273). It remains to be seen whether testing and production can be expedited sufficiently to stamp out highly transmissible variants as they emerge. It is said that boosters won't need to go through all of the same studies as the original vaccine, but I'm not aware of even one SRA that has approved a booster.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 14, 2021, 01:15:22 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 14, 2021, 01:15:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2021, 10:35:42 AMQuote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:31:03 PM
One thing that hasn't been mentioned much in this discussion, and shouldn't be underrated, is that many people are more willing to get vaccinated if it's only one shot.
I haven't heard that from any person I know. The people I know just want to get whatever has the least severe side-effects.
I haven't not heard that from any person I know (well, OK, that is a slight exaggeration, especially given that most of the older people I know have been vaccinated for a while now). But it seems like a lot of people don't want to deal with the bother of getting two shots. I tend to think about it with a bit more nuance and I've been back and forth. At least for now, though, it's a moot point since the two-part is the only option.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 14, 2021, 01:20:05 PM
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 14, 2021, 01:20:05 PM
^
Certainly not a sample size, but in the tweet I linked upthread about MD pausing J&J and subbing in Pfizer at one of their mass vaccination sites, one of the replies was someone complaining that they'd now have to make that drive twice.
Certainly not a sample size, but in the tweet I linked upthread about MD pausing J&J and subbing in Pfizer at one of their mass vaccination sites, one of the replies was someone complaining that they'd now have to make that drive twice.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: davewiecking on April 14, 2021, 01:35:06 PM
Post by: davewiecking on April 14, 2021, 01:35:06 PM
Pfizer #2 in the arm yesterday. Same Giant Food pharmacy, which had the date/time filled in on the back of the card after #1. Same professional did the jabbing; I complimented her on how painless the first one had been. No significant effects from first; I'm slightly more aware of my left shoulder than last time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 14, 2021, 02:02:37 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 14, 2021, 02:02:37 PM
I find it interesting that the J&J shot got pulled because of six cases of blood clots in about 7 million people, yet the Pfizer and Moderna shots are deemed OK despite VAERS death rates in the actual whole number percentages. (At one point I read that it was 3 percent for one shot and 6 percent for the other).
Correlation may not equal causation, but how long was it after Hank Aaron got his second shot that he died?
Correlation may not equal causation, but how long was it after Hank Aaron got his second shot that he died?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 14, 2021, 02:07:09 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 14, 2021, 02:07:09 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2021, 02:02:37 PM
Correlation may not equal causation, but how long was it after Hank Aaron got his second shot that he died?
An adult chosen at random has about a 8-10% chance that they received the vaccine within the last week (12-15% if you include each shot separately). This would mean that for every 10-12 celebrity deaths, on average, one of them would have received the vaccine within the last week. Nothing unusual.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 14, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 14, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
Just got shot #2. I updated my response in the poll. For a couple of topic that were discussed earlier in the thread:
This time I got it in the left arm as that was how the chair was set up compared to her desk, whereas last time I got it in the right.
I brought my WHO "Yellow Card" that has my Yellow Fever vaccine info on it, but she said she didn't want to sign off since it was "two different programs". I didn't push it.
This time they actually asked for my ID vs. last time where I just gave them my name.
Quick and easy and 3 minutes from check-in to getting poked. Sat around for the customary 15 minutes before heading back home.
Chris
This time I got it in the left arm as that was how the chair was set up compared to her desk, whereas last time I got it in the right.
I brought my WHO "Yellow Card" that has my Yellow Fever vaccine info on it, but she said she didn't want to sign off since it was "two different programs". I didn't push it.
This time they actually asked for my ID vs. last time where I just gave them my name.
Quick and easy and 3 minutes from check-in to getting poked. Sat around for the customary 15 minutes before heading back home.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on April 14, 2021, 04:57:38 PM
Post by: Mapmikey on April 14, 2021, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2021, 02:02:37 PM
I find it interesting that the J&J shot got pulled because of six cases of blood clots in about 7 million people, yet the Pfizer and Moderna shots are deemed OK despite VAERS death rates in the actual whole number percentages. (At one point I read that it was 3 percent for one shot and 6 percent for the other).
Correlation may not equal causation, but how long was it after Hank Aaron got his second shot that he died?
VAERS is self-reporting (meaning cranks can put anything out there if they want) and therefore the CDC investigates to attempt to determine if the vaccine caused the adverse reaction.
CDC statement on COVID vaccines and VAERS - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
From Reuters:
Of the 145 million COVID-19 vaccine doses administered in the United States from Dec. 14, 2020 through March 29, 2021, "VAERS received 2,509 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." Having reviewed "available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records," the CDC found "no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths" (web link above was cited).
6% deaths out of tens of millions of doses is at least 600,000 people. Pretty sure that many people dying in a ~3 month period would not escape notice.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 14, 2021, 08:40:42 PM
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 14, 2021, 08:40:42 PM
Getting my first Pfizer/Moderna shot this Friday followed by my second dose in early May, at the clinic being run by MU Health Care at Faurot Field (though I've heard some of the shots are being done by upperclassman students in the School of Health and those doing their residency at University Hospital - not that I mind either).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on April 14, 2021, 09:21:10 PM
Post by: NE2 on April 14, 2021, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2021, 10:35:42 AMQuote from: webny99 on April 13, 2021, 10:31:03 PM
One thing that hasn't been mentioned much in this discussion, and shouldn't be underrated, is that many people are more willing to get vaccinated if it's only one shot.
I haven't heard that from any person I know. The people I know just want to get whatever has the least severe side-effects.
I know someone who is terrified of needles. They only agreed to go with me to get jabbed because it was a single shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 14, 2021, 09:26:42 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on April 14, 2021, 09:26:42 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2021, 02:02:37 PM(https://i.imgflip.com/55h96u.jpg)
I find it interesting that the J&J shot got pulled because of six cases of blood clots in about 7 million people, yet the Pfizer and Moderna shots are deemed OK despite VAERS death rates in the actual whole number percentages. (At one point I read that it was 3 percent for one shot and 6 percent for the other).
Correlation may not equal causation, but how long was it after Hank Aaron got his second shot that he died?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 14, 2021, 09:45:31 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 14, 2021, 09:45:31 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on April 14, 2021, 08:40:42 PMYou either get Pfizer or Moderna.
Getting my first Pfizer/Moderna shot this Friday followed by my second dose in early May, at the clinic being run by MU Health Care at Faurot Field (though I've heard some of the shots are being done by upperclassman students in the School of Health and those doing their residency at University Hospital - not that I mind either).
There can be only one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US71 on April 14, 2021, 10:13:28 PM
Post by: US71 on April 14, 2021, 10:13:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 14, 2021, 09:45:31 PMQuote from: TravelingBethelite on April 14, 2021, 08:40:42 PMYou either get Pfizer or Moderna.
Getting my first Pfizer/Moderna shot this Friday followed by my second dose in early May, at the clinic being run by MU Health Care at Faurot Field (though I've heard some of the shots are being done by upperclassman students in the School of Health and those doing their residency at University Hospital - not that I mind either).
There can be only one.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/df/eb/4c/dfeb4caceb8262e99fd6bdb8b6de94b3.jpg)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2021, 10:17:41 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2021, 10:17:41 PM
Supposedly the second shot for me is going down tomorrow at 0830.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 15, 2021, 12:15:27 AM
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 15, 2021, 12:15:27 AM
Got my first Pfizer dose an hour and a half away in Indiana, Pennsylvania. Feel like crap, but that's a small price to pay. I'll be back for my second in three weeks and then sleep for a day or two.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 15, 2021, 02:02:44 AM
Post by: Duke87 on April 15, 2021, 02:02:44 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 25, 2021, 12:00:35 AMQuote from: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:58:25 PM
The current situation means that NY should surpass CT in vaccinations in the near future as recent appointment difficulties will cause a plateau.
Well, this is empirically testable. Let's see how things look in a few weeks, shall we?
Update three weeks later...
CT: 45.7% 1+ doses, 29.2% fully vaccinated
NY: 40.4% 1+ doses, 26.4% fully vaccinated
And by ranking:
CT: 3/50 shots per capita (was: 5/50), 5/50 fully vaccinated (was: 4/50)
NY: 12/50 shots per capita (was: 29/50), 12/50 fully vaccinated (was: 41/50)
So, CT is solidly still ahead of NY, and by about the same number of percentage points that they were a few weeks ago.
NY has climbed higher in the rankings than it was, though this is less a question of NY stepping up its game and more a question of a lot of states that were doing quite well before are running out of residents willing to get jabbed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 15, 2021, 03:25:08 AM
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 15, 2021, 03:25:08 AM
Quote from: US71 on April 14, 2021, 10:13:28 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 14, 2021, 09:45:31 PMQuote from: TravelingBethelite on April 14, 2021, 08:40:42 PMYou either get Pfizer or Moderna.
Getting my first Pfizer/Moderna shot this Friday followed by my second dose in early May, at the clinic being run by MU Health Care at Faurot Field (though I've heard some of the shots are being done by upperclassman students in the School of Health and those doing their residency at University Hospital - not that I mind either).
There can be only one.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/df/eb/4c/dfeb4caceb8262e99fd6bdb8b6de94b3.jpg)
That is to say, they decide on the spot - probably whatever's been out longest.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 15, 2021, 07:22:30 AM
Post by: Rothman on April 15, 2021, 07:22:30 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 15, 2021, 02:02:44 AMI smell fear. Yep, NY is rising, just like I said it would. And, since the percentage gap is the same, NY is now keeping pace with CT in terms of percentage points added over time, rather than falling behind or anything that would support a dire painting of the state of vaccinations in NY.Quote from: Duke87 on March 25, 2021, 12:00:35 AMQuote from: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:58:25 PM
The current situation means that NY should surpass CT in vaccinations in the near future as recent appointment difficulties will cause a plateau.
Well, this is empirically testable. Let's see how things look in a few weeks, shall we?
Update three weeks later...
CT: 45.7% 1+ doses, 29.2% fully vaccinated
NY: 40.4% 1+ doses, 26.4% fully vaccinated
And by ranking:
CT: 3/50 shots per capita (was: 5/50), 5/50 fully vaccinated (was: 4/50)
NY: 12/50 shots per capita (was: 29/50), 12/50 fully vaccinated (was: 41/50)
So, CT is solidly still ahead of NY, and by about the same number of percentage points that they were a few weeks ago.
NY has climbed higher in the rankings than it was, though this is less a question of NY stepping up its game and more a question of a lot of states that were doing quite well before are running out of residents willing to get jabbed.
Give it some more time. We'll pass you eventually. I mean, I know the rates per capita are to simply help compare across state lines, but we have distributed more than five times the doses than your dinky state (literally millions more). :D
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: LM117 on April 15, 2021, 09:47:09 AM
Post by: LM117 on April 15, 2021, 09:47:09 AM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 15, 2021, 12:15:27 AM
Got my first Pfizer dose an hour and a half away in Indiana, Pennsylvania.
That must've been one long needle.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 15, 2021, 11:00:37 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 15, 2021, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 14, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
Just got shot #2. I updated my response in the poll. For a couple of topic that were discussed earlier in the thread:
This time I got it in the left arm as that was how the chair was set up compared to her desk, whereas last time I got it in the right.
I brought my WHO "Yellow Card" that has my Yellow Fever vaccine info on it, but she said she didn't want to sign off since it was "two different programs". I didn't push it.
This time they actually asked for my ID vs. last time where I just gave them my name.
Quick and easy and 3 minutes from check-in to getting poked. Sat around for the customary 15 minutes before heading back home.
Chris
Update on side effects. Didn't sleep very well last night due to a) not being able to lay on my left side and b) going hot and cold all night. When I woke up in the morning, I was a little bit nauseous, but that seems to have gone away for the most part.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 12:14:49 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 12:14:49 PM
Second shot just obtained, I am now the Lord of the Lizard People. All will fear me and my 5G death beams.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 15, 2021, 12:15:41 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 15, 2021, 12:15:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 12:14:49 PMWhy would you let Bill Gates steal your DNA?
Second shot just obtained, I am now the Lord of the Lizard People. All will fear me and my 5G death beams.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kurumi on April 15, 2021, 12:17:55 PM
Post by: kurumi on April 15, 2021, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 12:14:49 PM
Second shot just obtained, I am now the Lord of the Lizard People. All will fear me and my 5G death beams.
Mad Vax Fury Road
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 12:20:08 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 12:20:08 PM
^^^^
This guy gets it.
Club access to the subterranean lair at Denver International Airport and the Ice Wall.
This guy gets it.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 15, 2021, 12:15:41 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 12:14:49 PMWhy would you let Bill Gates steal your DNA?
Second shot just obtained, I am now the Lord of the Lizard People. All will fear me and my 5G death beams.
Club access to the subterranean lair at Denver International Airport and the Ice Wall.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 15, 2021, 01:08:10 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 15, 2021, 01:08:10 PM
OK, here's something I haven't seen discussed before. If you are taking the two-shot series (not the single-shot J&J or A-Z), do you have to take the same brand both times? Or can you take the Pfizer shot first and the Moderna shot second? Most places just have one type -- the local Walgreen's has Moderna, but the big clinic at UK in Lexington has Pfizer.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 15, 2021, 01:10:31 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on April 15, 2021, 01:10:31 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 15, 2021, 01:08:10 PMSame brand yes.
OK, here's something I haven't seen discussed before. If you are taking the two-shot series (not the single-shot J&J or A-Z), do you have to take the same brand both times? Or can you take the Pfizer shot first and the Moderna shot second? Most places just have one type -- the local Walgreen's has Moderna, but the big clinic at UK in Lexington has Pfizer.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 15, 2021, 01:11:48 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 15, 2021, 01:11:48 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 15, 2021, 01:08:10 PM
OK, here's something I haven't seen discussed before. If you are taking the two-shot series (not the single-shot J&J or A-Z), do you have to take the same brand both times? Or can you take the Pfizer shot first and the Moderna shot second? Most places just have one type -- the local Walgreen's has Moderna, but the big clinic at UK in Lexington has Pfizer.
They are very similar vaccines, so it should be fine, but since there were no clinical trials that mixed vaccines, so nobody can say officially that it's OK. The guidance has been that you should only switch from one to the other if you absolutely can't get a second dose of the same one within 8 weeks of the first dose.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 01:14:09 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2021, 01:14:09 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 15, 2021, 01:08:10 PM
OK, here's something I haven't seen discussed before. If you are taking the two-shot series (not the single-shot J&J or A-Z), do you have to take the same brand both times? Or can you take the Pfizer shot first and the Moderna shot second? Most places just have one type -- the local Walgreen's has Moderna, but the big clinic at UK in Lexington has Pfizer.
Seemingly but the CDC doesn't recommend it since it hasn't been evaluated:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html#Interchangeability
And FWIW if I experience anything weird I'll be sure to note it here.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 15, 2021, 01:29:08 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 15, 2021, 01:29:08 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 15, 2021, 01:08:10 PMOK, here's something I haven't seen discussed before. If you are taking the two-shot series (not the single-shot J&J or A-Z), do you have to take the same brand both times? Or can you take the Pfizer shot first and the Moderna shot second? Most places just have one type -- the local Walgreen's has Moderna, but the big clinic at UK in Lexington has Pfizer.
Mixing shots probably won't kill you, but--per what others have said--you have to take them as tested (i.e., two shots of the same type at the appropriate spacing) to know what you are getting in terms of immune response.
I don't know that anyone is yet systematically studying double-layering vaccines (e.g., two shots of Moderna followed by two shots of Pfizer). However, it has been reported that people who have had covid have had much more aggressive antibody generation following the first shot of one of the mRNA vaccines (I think Moderna) than people who have not had covid have had following the full course of shots.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Zeffy on April 15, 2021, 01:40:51 PM
Post by: Zeffy on April 15, 2021, 01:40:51 PM
72 hours after my shot on Monday of the J&J. Not many side effects to report. Very mild soreness in my left arm still, but nothing else pin-pointable.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on April 15, 2021, 09:58:25 PM
Post by: ilpt4u on April 15, 2021, 09:58:25 PM
I got the 2nd Pfizer dose today, and have changed by vote accordingly
No side effects just yet, anyway
No side effects just yet, anyway
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 15, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 15, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 15, 2021, 11:00:37 AM
Update on side effects. Didn't sleep very well last night due to a) not being able to lay on my left side and b) going hot and cold all night. When I woke up in the morning, I was a little bit nauseous, but that seems to have gone away for the most part.
Chris
Another update. Felt like crap most of the day today. Had chills, a headache, body aches, and a 100.8 degree fever. I was also super tired most of the day, and ended up working from bed and fell asleep with my work computer on my lap. More or less felt like having the flu without any congestion, cough, or nasal stuff. Drank a ton of water and starting to feel a little better. Hopefully a good night's sleep is on the way and I'm 100% tomorrow.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 15, 2021, 11:41:42 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 15, 2021, 11:41:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2021, 07:22:30 AM
Give it some more time. We'll pass you eventually.
Ah ah ah, a few weeks ago you predicted NY would pass CT...
Quote from: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:58:25 PMin the near future
That is quite different from "eventually". No moving the goalposts.
But if it makes you feel better, we can check back in another three weeks and see where things stand.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 16, 2021, 12:24:28 AM
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 16, 2021, 12:24:28 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 15, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Another update. Felt like crap most of the day today. Had chills, a headache, body aches, and a 100.8 degree fever. I was also super tired most of the day, and ended up working from bed and fell asleep with my work computer on my lap. More or less felt like having the flu without any congestion, cough, or nasal stuff. Drank a ton of water and starting to feel a little better. Hopefully a good night's sleep is on the way and I'm 100% tomorrow.
Chris
Was the same experience for me, except no fever after checking three times throughout the day. Interesting how some people get a temperature and others don't.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 12:32:08 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 12:32:08 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 16, 2021, 12:24:28 AMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 15, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Another update. Felt like crap most of the day today. Had chills, a headache, body aches, and a 100.8 degree fever. I was also super tired most of the day, and ended up working from bed and fell asleep with my work computer on my lap. More or less felt like having the flu without any congestion, cough, or nasal stuff. Drank a ton of water and starting to feel a little better. Hopefully a good night's sleep is on the way and I'm 100% tomorrow.
Chris
Was the same experience for me, except no fever after checking three times throughout the day. Interesting how some people get a temperature and others don't.
I've never had a vaccination of any kind that gave me more than a sore arm.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ilpt4u on April 16, 2021, 06:31:58 AM
Post by: ilpt4u on April 16, 2021, 06:31:58 AM
I woke up the morning after shot 2 with a sore left arm, but its not too bad, yet anyway
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ET21 on April 16, 2021, 09:39:18 AM
Post by: ET21 on April 16, 2021, 09:39:18 AM
18 hours after shot 2, def a bit more fatigued compared to shot 1. Some roaming muscle aches as well
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 09:42:55 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 09:42:55 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on April 16, 2021, 12:24:28 AMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 15, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Another update. Felt like crap most of the day today. Had chills, a headache, body aches, and a 100.8 degree fever. I was also super tired most of the day, and ended up working from bed and fell asleep with my work computer on my lap. More or less felt like having the flu without any congestion, cough, or nasal stuff. Drank a ton of water and starting to feel a little better. Hopefully a good night's sleep is on the way and I'm 100% tomorrow.
Chris
Was the same experience for me, except no fever after checking three times throughout the day. Interesting how some people get a temperature and others don't.
Woke up this morning feeling 100% so far. Temperature is back to 98.6 and my arm even hurts less than it did. Glad those symptoms didn't last any longer than 24 hours. Well worth it to get vaccinated either way though.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 09:52:45 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 09:52:45 AM
Woke up, felt like crap and went for a run. I feel fine now, I chalk it up to sleeping bad all week.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 16, 2021, 03:39:57 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 16, 2021, 03:39:57 PM
First dose down, now the second one on May 5th!
It was the Pfizer one btw.
It was the Pfizer one btw.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
I'm taking Advil in advance of my second shot later today. Has anyone else done this? (I got the idea from my mom, who is a retired nurse.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 04:08:14 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 04:08:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
I'm taking Advil in advance of my second shot later today. Has anyone else done this? (I got the idea from my mom, who is a retired nurse.)
I just read on CNN that that's not recommended, but taking it after is fine. Take that for what it's worth.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:19:57 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:19:57 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:08:14 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
I'm taking Advil in advance of my second shot later today. Has anyone else done this? (I got the idea from my mom, who is a retired nurse.)
I just read on CNN that that's not recommended, but taking it after is fine. Take that for what it's worth.
Did it say why?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 04:23:49 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 04:23:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:19:57 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:08:14 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
I'm taking Advil in advance of my second shot later today. Has anyone else done this? (I got the idea from my mom, who is a retired nurse.)
I just read on CNN that that's not recommended, but taking it after is fine. Take that for what it's worth.
Did it say why?
Was trying to find the article, but it's escaping me. I'll keep digging. Basically since they said the vaccine's effects hadn't been studied with those medications in your system.
Edit:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/covid-vaccine-side-effects/index.html
QuoteCan I take over-the-counter meds if I get side effects?
"You can take these medications to relieve post-vaccination side effects if you have no other medical reasons that prevent you from taking these medications normally," the CDC said.
But it's "not recommended you take over-the-counter medicine -- such as ibuprofen, aspirin, or acetaminophen -- before vaccination for the purpose of trying to prevent vaccine-related side effects."
"It is not known how these medications might affect how well the vaccine works," the agency said.
"However, if you take these medications regularly for other reasons, you should keep taking them before you get vaccinated. It is also not recommended to take antihistamines before getting a COVID-19 vaccine to try to prevent allergic reactions."
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:26:33 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:23:49 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:19:57 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:08:14 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
I'm taking Advil in advance of my second shot later today. Has anyone else done this? (I got the idea from my mom, who is a retired nurse.)
I just read on CNN that that's not recommended, but taking it after is fine. Take that for what it's worth.
Did it say why?
Was trying to find the article, but it's escaping me. I'll keep digging. Basically since they said the vaccine's effects hadn't been studied with those medications in your system.
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 04:34:49 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 04:34:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:26:33 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:23:49 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:19:57 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:08:14 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
I'm taking Advil in advance of my second shot later today. Has anyone else done this? (I got the idea from my mom, who is a retired nurse.)
I just read on CNN that that's not recommended, but taking it after is fine. Take that for what it's worth.
Did it say why?
Was trying to find the article, but it's escaping me. I'll keep digging. Basically since they said the vaccine's effects hadn't been studied with those medications in your system.
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
I also agree with you, but I would be remiss if I didn't share what I had read at least.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:26:33 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:23:49 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:19:57 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:08:14 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
I'm taking Advil in advance of my second shot later today. Has anyone else done this? (I got the idea from my mom, who is a retired nurse.)
I just read on CNN that that's not recommended, but taking it after is fine. Take that for what it's worth.
Did it say why?
Was trying to find the article, but it's escaping me. I'll keep digging. Basically since they said the vaccine's effects hadn't been studied with those medications in your system.
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
Meanwhile, a family friend of ours asked the person administering the shot if it was OK to take Advil. They said stay away from Advil, but Tylenol should be OK if needed. :crazy:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:40:40 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:40:40 PM
Yeah, well, Tylenol doesn't do squat for me in general.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 16, 2021, 05:05:34 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 16, 2021, 05:05:34 PM
Having read that NSAIDs dampen the vaccine-induced immune response, I decided I simply wouldn't take any unless I was really desperate, and I ended up not needing them.
Similarly, I hardly ever use aspirin as a febrifuge--I just sweat it out.
Similarly, I hardly ever use aspirin as a febrifuge--I just sweat it out.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Zeffy on April 16, 2021, 05:11:21 PM
Post by: Zeffy on April 16, 2021, 05:11:21 PM
Day 4, I had some sort of migraine that manifested into panic attacks because I overthink everything. I don't know if the vax had anything to do with the migraine, but I still don't feel totally right.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 05:20:33 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 05:20:33 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on April 16, 2021, 05:11:21 PM
Day 4, I had some sort of migraine that manifested into panic attacks because I overthink everything. I don't know if the vax had anything to do with the migraine, but I still don't feel totally right.
Mind tricks affect how I feel as well.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Zeffy on April 16, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
Post by: Zeffy on April 16, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 05:20:33 PMQuote from: Zeffy on April 16, 2021, 05:11:21 PM
Day 4, I had some sort of migraine that manifested into panic attacks because I overthink everything. I don't know if the vax had anything to do with the migraine, but I still don't feel totally right.
Mind tricks affect how I feel as well.
Oh I know this all too well. Living with panic disorder means I have to acquaint myself with panic attacks far too frequently.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 05:42:44 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 05:42:44 PM
Considering how much chaos has taken place today at work it would have been amusing to have not felt well and called out today. Truth be told it was a little annoying how many people were convinced I was not going to feel good after a second shot and how inclined they felt to tell me.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 05:47:13 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 16, 2021, 05:47:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 05:42:44 PM
Considering how much chaos has taken place today at work it would have been amusing to have not felt well and called out today. Truth be told it was a little annoying how many people were convinced I was not going to feel good after a second shot and how inclined they felt to tell me.
I was convinced I would feel 100% fine since I rarely, if ever, get sick. My wife always gets sick and didn't have any side effects at all. Of course that's why I was down for the count yesterday. Thankfully it was a slow day at work.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 05:47:13 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 05:42:44 PM
Considering how much chaos has taken place today at work it would have been amusing to have not felt well and called out today. Truth be told it was a little annoying how many people were convinced I was not going to feel good after a second shot and how inclined they felt to tell me.
I was convinced I would feel 100% fine since I rarely, if ever, get sick. My wife always gets sick and didn't have any side effects at all. Of course that's why I was down for the count yesterday. Thankfully it was a slow day at work.
Chris
I really wanted that day off too. I could have done a podcast and at least one highway article. Really if I was thinking straight I would have just used vacation time since I have so much of it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 16, 2021, 08:25:19 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 16, 2021, 08:25:19 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 12:32:08 AM
I've never had a vaccination of any kind that gave me more than a sore arm.
I had a TDaP shot once that had me in bed with fever/chills a few hours later (which was around dinnertime), and I ended up just staying in bed through the night at that point. But then I woke up the next morning and felt totally normal.
I have had another TDaP shot since (you're supposed to get one every 10 years) that produced no side effects whatsoever. So... not always consistent even within the individual.
But yeah, Pfizer dose 1 had my arm sore for about 36 hours. Otherwise NBD.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
The nurse who gave me mine said that I could take OTC pain meds IF things got bad, but not to do so proactively. This seems to be in line with what the CDC is saying.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 08:30:10 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 08:30:10 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 16, 2021, 08:25:19 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2021, 12:32:08 AM
I've never had a vaccination of any kind that gave me more than a sore arm.
I had a TDaP shot once that had me in bed with fever/chills a few hours later (which was around dinnertime), and I ended up just staying in bed through the night at that point. But then I woke up the next morning and felt totally normal.
I have had another TDaP shot since (you're supposed to get one every 10 years) that produced no side effects whatsoever. So... not always consistent even within the individual.
But yeah, Pfizer dose 1 had my arm sore for about 36 hours. Otherwise NBD.
What I'm finding strange (I know you already know this from the other chat) is Moderna didn't even give me the same soreness the Pfizer shot did. That runs totally against the grain of what has been put out there regarding which one tends to affect more people. I guess it's a total crapshoot on what happens.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:16:52 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:16:52 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 16, 2021, 08:25:19 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
The nurse who gave me mine said that I could take OTC pain meds IF things got bad, but not to do so proactively. This seems to be in line with what the CDC is saying.
I just got back from getting my second poke and running some deliveries with my wife. I asked the nurse about Advil while she was filling out my form. She said, of course, that Tylenol is the recommendation, and that it should be your first choice. But, she said, Advil is not contra-indicated. So, absent Tylenol, she said your first course of action should be to take nothing, but Advil is OK as a second choice. She also mentioned that it is not recommended to take anything proactively.
Actually, I only ended up taking one Advil late this morning, and nothing since then. I never really take anything proactively to begin with, so it didn't take much of you guys talking about it to get me to decide not to take any more. But yeah, if I end up feeling miserable later, I'll go for the Advil.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 09:28:23 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 09:28:23 PM
This sort of question kind of illustrates to me the difference between emergency authorization and full-on approval. If the vaccines were fully tested and authorized, we'd know exactly how they interact with pretty much all common OTC drugs, how long the immunity lasts for, whether it's safe for people with weird edge case conditions, and so on. But because we needed to get something out the door to tame the pandemic, we tested them for basic safety and efficacy and that's it. Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing, or that there's enough unknowns about the vaccine for most people to justify not getting it. Just that we made a tradeoff by bypassing the drawn-out bureaucratic approval process, at the cost of not knowing many of the finer details that we do know about more established pharmaceuticals.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:34:39 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:34:39 PM
(I have now voted in the poll.)
(Really, it was kind of pointless until now.)
(Really, it was kind of pointless until now.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
Post by: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 11:02:43 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 11:02:43 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
If this wasn't a roads forum, I'd think that was sarcasm. :-P
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: noelbotevera on April 17, 2021, 09:10:07 AM
Post by: noelbotevera on April 17, 2021, 09:10:07 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 11:02:43 PMSadly, it is sarcasm. York is deep within my explored territory, so going there and back doesn't feel fresh.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
If this wasn't a roads forum, I'd think that was sarcasm. :-P
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheGrassGuy on April 17, 2021, 02:01:09 PM
Post by: TheGrassGuy on April 17, 2021, 02:01:09 PM
Just got my first dose of Pfizer yesterday! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMIsn't Weehawken in NJ? Sounds like they're inappropriately crossing state borders for the vaccine.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mr. Matté on April 17, 2021, 06:01:19 PM
Post by: Mr. Matté on April 17, 2021, 06:01:19 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 11:02:43 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
If this wasn't a roads forum, I'd think that was sarcasm. :-P
At least with mine (having to go from Plainsboro to Mt. Laurel, NJ), I got to clinch Burlington CR 637 in the process (due to an accident on 295).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:04:50 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:04:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
I didn't ask him because he only mentioned it shortly before 5:00 Friday afternoon when it was time to sign off for the weekend. I did suggest he stop at the barbecue place Mapmikey recommended in Oneonta, though.
Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMIsn't Weehawken in NJ? Sounds like they're inappropriately crossing state borders for the vaccine.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
He's eligible in New York because of his employment there. No issues at all on that front.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: formulanone on April 17, 2021, 07:05:06 PM
Post by: formulanone on April 17, 2021, 07:05:06 PM
About 30-something hours hours after my second Pfizer dose, and I've felt no ill effects.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: sparker on April 17, 2021, 07:39:56 PM
Post by: sparker on April 17, 2021, 07:39:56 PM
First shot (end of Feb.0; no ill effects (Pfizer)). Second shot the 3rd week of March; a bit of a delayed reaction; left side of torso (left arm injection) got a bit red and sensitive about 2 days later. This persisted for about 2 more days, then went away. But about a day or so after that my left leg got a rash, which I treated with an ice pack followed by calamine and then lotion, and it went away after about 36 hours. Not too bad; a friend (who is 74) got physically sick a few hours after receiving his 2nd Pfizer shot and couldn't hold food down for another day or so. From what I've heard anecdotally, reactions such as those fall under what's deemed "normal" and without cause for concern if it goes away within a few days.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 17, 2021, 11:18:06 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 17, 2021, 11:18:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PMNY tends to have more appointment availability in the rural areas (specifically, Oneonta, Utica, Syracuse, Potsdam, Plattsburgh, and Corning tend to nearly always have appointments available; other areas often don't). As such, someone who just wants to go to the site, get the first available appointment they can, and then wait for it, will likely be going to one of those sites. Appointments open often at the other sites, even on relatively short timeframes, but people often don't want to keep checking to see when NY opens up the next appointment batch.Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
That said, there's not much waiting around for a vaccine in NY. Getting the appointment is the process. Once you have it, things go very efficiently. When I got my first dose at SUNY Albany*, I was in and out in just 20 minutes, including the 15 minute observation period after my shot. I've seen photos of people waiting in line in other states like people trying to buy a PS5 on Black Friday and just shake my head.
I've even heard of people making the Long Island-Potsdam drive... now that's a long trip!
*I do wonder about the move to Crossgates Mall that was just done yesterday. When I was there, it was like an assembly line - one door in, everything was one-way, separate door out. I do not see how a similar setup could be made at Crossgates, especially if one wants to allow transit access. Plus that area is always a zoo with shopping traffic, and they're adding vaccine traffic on top of it. :ded: I wish they could have waited a month so that I could get my second shot at SUNY Albany instead of there.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 17, 2021, 11:36:10 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 17, 2021, 11:36:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
I'm getting my second shot... on May 7... right after the physics exam... an hour and a half from here. Have I cloned myself accidentally?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dlsterner on April 17, 2021, 11:49:09 PM
Post by: dlsterner on April 17, 2021, 11:49:09 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 17, 2021, 11:36:10 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
I'm getting my second shot... on May 7... right after the physics exam... an hour and a half from here. Have I cloned myself accidentally?
It was a side effect of the first shot. :-D
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 12:00:18 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 17, 2021, 11:36:10 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
I'm getting my second shot... on May 7... right after the physics exam... an hour and a half from here. Have I cloned myself accidentally?
Punch a hole through Space Time by way of gravitational waves to get to your appointment on time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 18, 2021, 12:16:53 AM
Post by: hbelkins on April 18, 2021, 12:16:53 AM
Quote from: vdeane on April 17, 2021, 11:18:06 PM
I've even heard of people making the Long Island-Potsdam drive... now that's a long trip!
I wouldn't walk across the room to take that shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 18, 2021, 12:50:16 AM
Post by: Rothman on April 18, 2021, 12:50:16 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:04:50 PMWhy not get it in NJ?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
I didn't ask him because he only mentioned it shortly before 5:00 Friday afternoon when it was time to sign off for the weekend. I did suggest he stop at the barbecue place Mapmikey recommended in Oneonta, though.Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMIsn't Weehawken in NJ? Sounds like they're inappropriately crossing state borders for the vaccine.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
He's eligible in New York because of his employment there. No issues at all on that front.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 01:12:20 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 01:12:20 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2021, 12:50:16 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:04:50 PMWhy not get it in NJ?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
I didn't ask him because he only mentioned it shortly before 5:00 Friday afternoon when it was time to sign off for the weekend. I did suggest he stop at the barbecue place Mapmikey recommended in Oneonta, though.Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMIsn't Weehawken in NJ? Sounds like they're inappropriately crossing state borders for the vaccine.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
He's eligible in New York because of his employment there. No issues at all on that front.
Isn't NJ all screwed up with their vaccination process right now?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 18, 2021, 09:53:41 AM
Post by: jmacswimmer on April 18, 2021, 09:53:41 AM
Road observation related to vaccines: While heading north on I-83 just outside I-695 yesterday, I noticed that exits 16A, 16B, & 17 all had ramp traffic backing up into the right lane of I-83. I'm almost certain this traffic was all heading to the Maryland state fairgrounds in Timonium, which recently became a state-run mass vaccination site. The overhead variable message signs on I-695 & I-83 in the area are encouraging all fairground traffic to take exit 17 (probably an attempt to take pressure off exit 16), but at least yesterday they were all borked anyway.
Has anyone observed anything like this anywhere else?
Has anyone observed anything like this anywhere else?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dlsterner on April 18, 2021, 10:05:59 AM
Post by: dlsterner on April 18, 2021, 10:05:59 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 18, 2021, 09:53:41 AM
Road observation related to vaccines: While heading north on I-83 just outside I-695 yesterday, I noticed that exits 16A, 16B, & 17 all had ramp traffic backing up into the right lane of I-83. I'm almost certain this traffic was all heading to the Maryland state fairgrounds in Timonium, which recently became a state-run mass vaccination site. The overhead variable message signs on I-695 & I-83 in the area are encouraging all fairground traffic to take exit 17 (probably an attempt to take pressure off exit 16), but at least yesterday they were all borked anyway.
Has anyone observed anything like this anywhere else?
As far as Maryland goes, I was at the Waldorf site yesterday, and no lines until you entered the stadium parking lot, then only about 15 minutes start to finish. Makes me glad I opted for Waldorf rather than one in a more urban area like Timonium or M&T Bank Stadium.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 18, 2021, 10:24:16 AM
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 18, 2021, 10:24:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 01:12:20 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 18, 2021, 12:50:16 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:04:50 PMWhy not get it in NJ?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
I didn't ask him because he only mentioned it shortly before 5:00 Friday afternoon when it was time to sign off for the weekend. I did suggest he stop at the barbecue place Mapmikey recommended in Oneonta, though.Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMIsn't Weehawken in NJ? Sounds like they're inappropriately crossing state borders for the vaccine.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
He's eligible in New York because of his employment there. No issues at all on that front.
Isn't NJ all screwed up with their vaccination process right now?
Not that I know of. It's pretty easy to get an appointment now in NJ
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 10:32:27 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 10:32:27 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 18, 2021, 10:24:16 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 01:12:20 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 18, 2021, 12:50:16 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:04:50 PMWhy not get it in NJ?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
I didn't ask him because he only mentioned it shortly before 5:00 Friday afternoon when it was time to sign off for the weekend. I did suggest he stop at the barbecue place Mapmikey recommended in Oneonta, though.Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMIsn't Weehawken in NJ? Sounds like they're inappropriately crossing state borders for the vaccine.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
He's eligible in New York because of his employment there. No issues at all on that front.
Isn't NJ all screwed up with their vaccination process right now?
Not that I know of. It's pretty easy to get an appointment now in NJ
I think it was more about age groups being released to get shots or something?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 18, 2021, 11:03:02 AM
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 18, 2021, 11:03:02 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 10:32:27 AMQuote from: jeffandnicole on April 18, 2021, 10:24:16 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 01:12:20 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 18, 2021, 12:50:16 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:04:50 PMWhy not get it in NJ?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
I didn't ask him because he only mentioned it shortly before 5:00 Friday afternoon when it was time to sign off for the weekend. I did suggest he stop at the barbecue place Mapmikey recommended in Oneonta, though.Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMIsn't Weehawken in NJ? Sounds like they're inappropriately crossing state borders for the vaccine.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
He's eligible in New York because of his employment there. No issues at all on that front.
Isn't NJ all screwed up with their vaccination process right now?
Not that I know of. It's pretty easy to get an appointment now in NJ
I think it was more about age groups being released to get shots or something?
16+ starts Monday.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: STLmapboy on April 18, 2021, 11:33:41 AM
Post by: STLmapboy on April 18, 2021, 11:33:41 AM
Took my first shot of the Pfizer vax (only one approved for 16 year olds) on Friday, April 16. Got it at the St Luke's vaccine clinic at Chesterfield Mall (in the old H&M). Will get my second dose on May 7.
Had to sit out a water polo game due to a sore arm. Our star player also showed up with a hangover; he got his second jab of the vax the night before and decided to celebrate with his girlfriend. Bad idea. So we lost pretty dismally.
Had to sit out a water polo game due to a sore arm. Our star player also showed up with a hangover; he got his second jab of the vax the night before and decided to celebrate with his girlfriend. Bad idea. So we lost pretty dismally.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 18, 2021, 12:11:43 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 18, 2021, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2021, 12:50:16 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 06:04:50 PMWhy not get it in NJ?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2021, 02:52:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
What's up with that? That's a hell of a long way just to have to likely wait again upon arrival at the vaccination site.
I didn't ask him because he only mentioned it shortly before 5:00 Friday afternoon when it was time to sign off for the weekend. I did suggest he stop at the barbecue place Mapmikey recommended in Oneonta, though.Quote from: Rothman on April 17, 2021, 03:53:31 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 17, 2021, 02:29:00 PMIsn't Weehawken in NJ? Sounds like they're inappropriately crossing state borders for the vaccine.Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
A colleague who lives in Weehawken is driving to Oneonta today for his second shot–around three hours each way.
He's eligible in New York because of his employment there. No issues at all on that front.
I haven't asked him, but I presume he probably got his first shot in New York when he did that in late March, so he likely went back to the same place. My brother did that–he lives in New Orleans and got his two shots in Biloxi. Shorter drive than my colleague made, though.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: noelbotevera on April 18, 2021, 12:15:08 PM
Post by: noelbotevera on April 18, 2021, 12:15:08 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 17, 2021, 11:36:10 PMIf you're referring to the AP Physics exam, then I take that on May 7. I also have family in State College right now...is this some kind of conspiracy?Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
I'm getting my second shot... on May 7... right after the physics exam... an hour and a half from here. Have I cloned myself accidentally?
I'm taking the SATs on May 8, the day after the second shot. Driving with a sore arm will be awkward.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 18, 2021, 12:31:53 PM
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 18, 2021, 12:31:53 PM
Got my first shot of Pfizer yesterday at MU Health Care's clinic at Faurot Field - I'll get my 2nd same place on May 8th.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on April 18, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
Post by: bandit957 on April 18, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
I just love it when a news outlet runs a story about when we can do certain things that almost everyone has been doing since last May. "When can you go to the movies? When you can go to the beach?" Their answer is always that it's a long way off even if you're vaccinated.
It's been more than 2 weeks since my second dose. (I was in one of the first tiers because of underlying conditions.) So who cares what I do now that I've been vaccinated? And why should I care what anyone else does, especially if they've been vaccinated? Even unvaccinated people have been doing all this stuff for 11 months.
It's been more than 2 weeks since my second dose. (I was in one of the first tiers because of underlying conditions.) So who cares what I do now that I've been vaccinated? And why should I care what anyone else does, especially if they've been vaccinated? Even unvaccinated people have been doing all this stuff for 11 months.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dlsterner on April 18, 2021, 02:19:54 PM
Post by: dlsterner on April 18, 2021, 02:19:54 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 18, 2021, 12:15:08 PMQuote from: Ketchup99 on April 17, 2021, 11:36:10 PMIf you're referring to the AP Physics exam, then I take that on May 7. I also have family in State College right now...is this some kind of conspiracy?Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
I'm getting my second shot... on May 7... right after the physics exam... an hour and a half from here. Have I cloned myself accidentally?
Starting to wonder here ... has anybody ever seen noelbotevera and Ketchup99 together at the same time? No? Aha!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 02:35:20 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2021, 02:35:20 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on April 18, 2021, 02:19:54 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on April 18, 2021, 12:15:08 PMQuote from: Ketchup99 on April 17, 2021, 11:36:10 PMIf you're referring to the AP Physics exam, then I take that on May 7. I also have family in State College right now...is this some kind of conspiracy?Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
I'm getting my second shot... on May 7... right after the physics exam... an hour and a half from here. Have I cloned myself accidentally?
Starting to wonder here ... has anybody ever seen noelbotevera and Ketchup99 together at the same time? No? Aha!
Maybe they are clones and are on the verge of discovering the horrible truth finally?
Also, I'm a couple days the since the second dose of a mix/match 1st shot Pfizer and 2nd shot Moderna vaccine regime. No abnormalities to report, not even soreness. Apparently the reason it went down like that is due to the vaccination site (a military base) receiving Moderna vaccines this time instead of Pfizer. I have no idea if I had went at the four week interval like I was scheduled instead of five if that would have netted a second Pfizer shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 18, 2021, 04:43:44 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 18, 2021, 04:43:44 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on April 18, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
I just love it when a news outlet runs a story about when we can do certain things that almost everyone has been doing since last May. "When can you go to the movies? When you can go to the beach?" Their answer is always that it's a long way off even if you're vaccinated.
It's been more than 2 weeks since my second dose. (I was in one of the first tiers because of underlying conditions.) So who cares what I do now that I've been vaccinated? And why should I care what anyone else does, especially if they've been vaccinated? Even unvaccinated people have been doing all this stuff for 11 months.
That's because those articles are inevitably written by some of the most neurotically risk-averse people out there, or the types who are beside themselves that we haven't adopted the Australia model of "one case is too many, lock everyone in their basement until the virus is domestically eliminated".
There is no single appropriate answer to "When can I do X?", since it depends both on your own underlying health and your level of risk tolerance. And of course, people being people, decisions are made based on perceived risk... not actual.
And that perception gets muddled because, well... lots of people in the US definitely underestimate the risk of covid and don't take it sufficiently seriously. But at the same time, lots of people also tend to overestimate the risk and take it more seriously than is really necessary. I suspect that many of the latter are, consciously or unconsciously, attempting to compensate for the former.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 18, 2021, 04:59:22 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 18, 2021, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 18, 2021, 09:53:41 AMRoad observation related to vaccines: While heading north on I-83 just outside I-695 yesterday, I noticed that exits 16A, 16B, & 17 all had ramp traffic backing up into the right lane of I-83. I'm almost certain this traffic was all heading to the Maryland state fairgrounds in Timonium, which recently became a state-run mass vaccination site. The overhead variable message signs on I-695 & I-83 in the area are encouraging all fairground traffic to take exit 17 (probably an attempt to take pressure off exit 16), but at least yesterday they were all borked anyway.
Has anyone observed anything like this anywhere else?
It has been locally, but not on freeways AFAIK, since none of the local vaccination centers is especially close to a freeway.
* When I got my first shot at a one-day vaccination event on March 27, I had to sidestep congestion on neighborhood roads from people looking for places to park.
* The main county-run vaccination site is the old downtown library, which had sat largely vacant since it closed in May 2018 (the new building opened the following month). Even when it was still in service as a library, the parking lot to the south was like the surface of the moon (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6831016,-97.3389503,3a,75y,354.86h,92.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1semZYQibTDSnBgmBGTiFOvw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DemZYQibTDSnBgmBGTiFOvw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D149.98575%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192), with potholes hardly ever repaired. Now that much of this very auto-dependent city is filtering in and out for shots, there is an outcry for resurfacing.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 18, 2021, 05:06:01 PM
Post by: US 89 on April 18, 2021, 05:06:01 PM
Traffic was pretty bad on Northside by the Mercedes-Benz stadium in Atlanta when I was over there a couple weeks ago, since the stadium is now a FEMA/Fulton County mass vaccine distribution site. It did not extend more than a few blocks away though.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 18, 2021, 06:49:59 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 18, 2021, 06:49:59 PM
2 days later, now i don't feel anything. My dad and brother gets their second ones tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 18, 2021, 08:43:38 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 18, 2021, 08:43:38 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 18, 2021, 12:15:08 PMThat's the one, AP Physics... very much looking forward to my 2 on that right before my second dose. :biggrin: And is that a sibling at PSU or something? Perhaps this is some kind of vast conspiracy that neither of us have been cued into... I'm beginning to be concerned.Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 17, 2021, 11:36:10 PMIf you're referring to the AP Physics exam, then I take that on May 7. I also have family in State College right now...is this some kind of conspiracy?Quote from: noelbotevera on April 16, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
First shot done. Second shot May 7th. Right after a physics exam.
I also have to drive an hour and twenty minutes (to York) to get my shots. Pleasant.
I'm getting my second shot... on May 7... right after the physics exam... an hour and a half from here. Have I cloned myself accidentally?
(And good luck on your SAT! I'm a senior so I'm happy to be done with all that crap :) )
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 09:44:01 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 09:44:01 AM
Poll updated since I got my second Pfizer shot this morning. Barely felt the needle at all. No side effects so far, but then it's only been just under an hour since I got the shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 19, 2021, 09:56:34 AM
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 19, 2021, 09:56:34 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 09:44:01 AM
Poll updated since I got my second Pfizer shot this morning. Barely felt the needle at all. No side effects so far, but then it's only been just under an hour since I got the shot.
Most people that get the side effects usually get them later in the day or the next day, after the vaccine has had a chance to work its way throughout the body. The most common is soreness in the area and weakness in the arm.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 10:13:00 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 19, 2021, 09:56:34 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 09:44:01 AM
Poll updated since I got my second Pfizer shot this morning. Barely felt the needle at all. No side effects so far, but then it's only been just under an hour since I got the shot.
Most people that get the side effects usually get them later in the day or the next day, after the vaccine has had a chance to work its way throughout the body. The most common is soreness in the area and weakness in the arm.
Yeah, that makes sense. I feel mild fatigue now, but it's just too soon for it to be vaccine-related; it's almost certainly just mental and due in no small part to the dark and gloomy morning.
For those who wondered why my colleague in Weehawken drove all the way to Oneonta, he said last month when we first became eligible to get the shot in New York that was the nearest location to him with a close-in-time appointment; had he wanted to go to the Javits Center, he'd have had to wait "far longer" (his words). So he went back to the same place for the second shot.
Of interest on this forum, he also, said, "Of course, halfway through returning from Oneonta Saturday, the GPS did put us on a one lane dirt road after passing an abandoned castle. Trade offs."
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 19, 2021, 10:46:09 AM
Post by: webny99 on April 19, 2021, 10:46:09 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 10:13:00 AM
Of interest on this forum, he also, said, "Of course, halfway through returning from Oneonta Saturday, the GPS did put us on a one lane dirt road after passing an abandoned castle. Trade offs."Anyone have any idea where that might have been?Edited to add: He just confirmed it was Dundas Castle. "It was extremely weird. First the GPS had us go on a one lane paved road through nowhere, then a castle loomed atop a hillside, then we were directed up a dirt fire access road."
Interesting. I had never heard of Dundas Castle until looking it up just now. I can't imagine why the GPS would suggest a routing along that road unless there was some unforeseen issue in or around Roscoe. NY 206 straight to NY 17 is by far the most logical routing.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 11:22:44 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 19, 2021, 10:46:09 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 10:13:00 AM
Of interest on this forum, he also, said, "Of course, halfway through returning from Oneonta Saturday, the GPS did put us on a one lane dirt road after passing an abandoned castle. Trade offs."Anyone have any idea where that might have been?Edited to add: He just confirmed it was Dundas Castle. "It was extremely weird. First the GPS had us go on a one lane paved road through nowhere, then a castle loomed atop a hillside, then we were directed up a dirt fire access road."
Interesting. I had never heard of Dundas Castle until looking it up just now. I can't imagine why the GPS would suggest a routing along that road unless there was some unforeseen issue in or around Roscoe. NY 206 straight to NY 17 is by far the most logical routing.
I don't know and I don't really see much point in asking. I also didn't seek to clarify his references to "one lane roads." I assume he means a two-lane road (one lane in each direction), given that true single-track roads are extremely rare, if not non-existent, in the USA. Wouldn't be the first time I've heard someone use "one-lane road" in that way.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 19, 2021, 11:40:49 AM
Post by: webny99 on April 19, 2021, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 11:22:44 AMQuote from: webny99 on April 19, 2021, 10:46:09 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 10:13:00 AM
Of interest on this forum, he also, said, "Of course, halfway through returning from Oneonta Saturday, the GPS did put us on a one lane dirt road after passing an abandoned castle. Trade offs."Anyone have any idea where that might have been?Edited to add: He just confirmed it was Dundas Castle. "It was extremely weird. First the GPS had us go on a one lane paved road through nowhere, then a castle loomed atop a hillside, then we were directed up a dirt fire access road."
Interesting. I had never heard of Dundas Castle until looking it up just now. I can't imagine why the GPS would suggest a routing along that road unless there was some unforeseen issue in or around Roscoe. NY 206 straight to NY 17 is by far the most logical routing.
I don't know and I don't really see much point in asking. I also didn't seek to clarify his references to "one lane roads." I assume he means a two-lane road (one lane in each direction), given that true single-track roads are extremely rare, if not non-existent, in the USA. Wouldn't be the first time I've heard someone use "one-lane road" in that way.
Understood - sorry, I wasn't trying to get you to find out, but I can see how it came across that way.
"One-lane road" could also mean a road wide enough for two cars, but with no center or shoulder lines, as distinct from most two-lane roads used by thru traffic which tend to have both. Unfortunately there's no Street View in the area, but what I can see in satellite view generally supports this view.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 19, 2021, 01:16:32 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 19, 2021, 01:16:32 PM
In New York, anything that's narrower than 18' (the width needed for two cars to comfortably pass each other without at least one of them pulling off) is considered one lane. And yes, we do have them.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 19, 2021, 01:41:57 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 19, 2021, 01:41:57 PM
Scheduled my first shot for Wednesday (Moderna, meh).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 19, 2021, 02:02:03 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 19, 2021, 02:02:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:16:52 PMQuote from: Duke87 on April 16, 2021, 08:25:19 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
The nurse who gave me mine said that I could take OTC pain meds IF things got bad, but not to do so proactively. This seems to be in line with what the CDC is saying.
I just got back from getting my second poke and running some deliveries with my wife. I asked the nurse about Advil while she was filling out my form. She said, of course, that Tylenol is the recommendation, and that it should be your first choice. But, she said, Advil is not contra-indicated. So, absent Tylenol, she said your first course of action should be to take nothing, but Advil is OK as a second choice. She also mentioned that it is not recommended to take anything proactively.
Actually, I only ended up taking one Advil late this morning, and nothing since then. I never really take anything proactively to begin with, so it didn't take much of you guys talking about it to get me to decide not to take any more. But yeah, if I end up feeling miserable later, I'll go for the Advil.
I decided to take no meds–Tylenol or Advil–following my second jab Friday evening, unless side-effects kept me from sleeping during the night. So the following is an account of my side-effects of the second Pfizer dose with no analgesic/anti-inflammatory drugs.
FRI 7:00 PM – Got the shot, just site soreness, nothing else
FRI 8:30 PM – Decided to have my weekend cocktail a day early, in case I felt like crap later
SAT 7:00 AM – Woke up after a good night's rest, still just a sore injection site, nothing else
SAT 9:00 AM – Began to experience mild chills and body ache, which increased with time
SAT 12:00 PM – Jacket and stocking cap on full-time, most of my time spent under two blankets
SAT 2:00 PM – Began to feel slight shortness of breath–as if a deep breath might make me cough
SAT 3:30 PM – By this time, had taken a hot bath and also a brief nap
SAT 9:30 PM – Went to bed still feverish and physically shivering against my wife
SUN 5:00 AM – Sometime around then, the fever began to break
SUN 7:00 AM – Got out of bed, feeling 85% normal
SUN 9:00 AM – Went to church, mainly just a little groggy but otherwise feeling almost normal
SUN 1:00 PM – 100% normal, well enough to chores around the house
Even though I felt quite feverish most of Saturday, my temperature was actually only one or two degrees above normal. The body aches weren't as bad as having the flu, but I still felt pretty miserable all day.
I'm glad I had someone else cover for me on drums in church yesterday, because one of my side-effects was a weakened hand grip. That's kind of important for playing the drums.
Onset = 14 hours after the shot
Duration = 22 hours from onset to almost normal
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 19, 2021, 02:14:30 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 19, 2021, 02:14:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2021, 02:02:03 PM
I decided to take no meds–Tylenol or Advil–following my second jab Friday evening, unless side-effects kept me from sleeping during the night. So the following is an account of my side-effects of the second Pfizer dose with no analgesic/anti-inflammatory drugs.
FRI 7:00 PM – Got the shot, just site soreness, nothing else
FRI 8:30 PM – Decided to have my weekend cocktail a day early, in case I felt like crap later
SAT 7:00 AM – Woke up after a good night's rest, still just a sore injection site, nothing else
SAT 9:00 AM – Began to experience mild chills and body ache, which increased with time
SAT 12:00 PM – Jacket and stocking cap on full-time, most of my time spent under two blankets
SAT 2:00 PM – Began to feel slight shortness of breath–as if a deep breath might make me cough
SAT 3:30 PM – By this time, had taken a hot bath and also a brief nap
SAT 9:30 PM – Went to bed still feverish and physically shivering against my wife
SUN 5:00 AM – Sometime around then, the fever began to break
SUN 7:00 AM – Got out of bed, feeling 85% normal
SUN 9:00 AM – Went to church, mainly just a little groggy but otherwise feeling almost normal
SUN 1:00 PM – 100% normal, well enough to chores around the house
Even though I felt quite feverish most of Saturday, my temperature was actually only one or two degrees above normal. The body aches weren't as bad as having the flu, but I still felt pretty miserable all day.
I'm glad I had someone else cover for me on drums in church yesterday, because one of my side-effects was a weakened hand grip. That's kind of important for playing the drums.
Onset = 14 hours after the shot
Duration = 22 hours from onset to almost normal
Looks like your symptoms and timeline were pretty close to mine. My onset was a little later than yours (around 20 hours or so).
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 19, 2021, 04:29:11 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 19, 2021, 04:29:11 PM
In my case (Moderna first shot), the side effects--initially just soreness at the injection site--started six hours after. The one that bothered me the most, a feeling of clenching my shoulder muscle if I lifted my elbow to shoulder height, peaked at 36 hours with a rapid fall-off.
I go for the second shot this Saturday, so we'll see what happens.
I go for the second shot this Saturday, so we'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 19, 2021, 05:27:44 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 19, 2021, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 19, 2021, 04:29:11 PM
In my case (Moderna first shot), the side effects--initially just soreness at the injection site--started six hours after. The one that bothered me the most, a feeling of clenching my shoulder muscle if I lifted my elbow to shoulder height, peaked at 36 hours with a rapid fall-off.
I go for the second shot this Saturday, so we'll see what happens.
I'm not sure which vaccine my mom got but, with the soreness in her shoulders, she said she would have thought she was having a heart attack if she hadn't already known that might be a side-effect.
It does make me wonder if anyone has ignored the signs of a heart attack because they thought it was just vaccine soreness.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 06:15:24 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 19, 2021, 06:15:24 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 19, 2021, 01:16:32 PM
In New York, anything that's narrower than 18' (the width needed for two cars to comfortably pass each other without at least one of them pulling off) is considered one lane. And yes, we do have them.
I should note that I have no idea whether my colleague was using it in that sense or in a more generic sense. I don't know where he's from, though he did go to Fordham Law School.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dlsterner on April 19, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Post by: dlsterner on April 19, 2021, 11:50:14 PM
Got my second dose of the Pfizer vaccine on Saturday at one of Maryland's mass vaccination sites. Under 30 minutes in and out, including the mandatory 15 minute wait after the shot. Got the shot right through my car window.
The site itself was a one hour drive from my home each way, however.
Now 48+ hours later, no side effects at all other than a tiny bit of soreness where the needle went in.
The site itself was a one hour drive from my home each way, however.
Now 48+ hours later, no side effects at all other than a tiny bit of soreness where the needle went in.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 20, 2021, 07:39:34 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 20, 2021, 07:39:34 AM
The slightly unfortunate timing of one of my brother's text messages last night had me laughing my arse off. (Mine are in green.)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210420/3d26d61caa51b24ecdc2ec9e5fc2d9c0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210420/3d26d61caa51b24ecdc2ec9e5fc2d9c0.jpg)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 20, 2021, 01:34:37 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 20, 2021, 01:34:37 PM
If you get a vaccine and one of the side effects is that someone else dies, is that grounds to pull the vaccine or no?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 20, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 20, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2021, 02:02:03 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:16:52 PMQuote from: Duke87 on April 16, 2021, 08:25:19 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
The nurse who gave me mine said that I could take OTC pain meds IF things got bad, but not to do so proactively. This seems to be in line with what the CDC is saying.
I just got back from getting my second poke and running some deliveries with my wife. I asked the nurse about Advil while she was filling out my form. She said, of course, that Tylenol is the recommendation, and that it should be your first choice. But, she said, Advil is not contra-indicated. So, absent Tylenol, she said your first course of action should be to take nothing, but Advil is OK as a second choice. She also mentioned that it is not recommended to take anything proactively.
Actually, I only ended up taking one Advil late this morning, and nothing since then. I never really take anything proactively to begin with, so it didn't take much of you guys talking about it to get me to decide not to take any more. But yeah, if I end up feeling miserable later, I'll go for the Advil.
I decided to take no meds–Tylenol or Advil–following my second jab Friday evening, unless side-effects kept me from sleeping during the night. So the following is an account of my side-effects of the second Pfizer dose with no analgesic/anti-inflammatory drugs.
FRI 7:00 PM – Got the shot, just site soreness, nothing else
FRI 8:30 PM – Decided to have my weekend cocktail a day early, in case I felt like crap later
SAT 7:00 AM – Woke up after a good night's rest, still just a sore injection site, nothing else
SAT 9:00 AM – Began to experience mild chills and body ache, which increased with time
SAT 12:00 PM – Jacket and stocking cap on full-time, most of my time spent under two blankets
SAT 2:00 PM – Began to feel slight shortness of breath–as if a deep breath might make me cough
SAT 3:30 PM – By this time, had taken a hot bath and also a brief nap
SAT 9:30 PM – Went to bed still feverish and physically shivering against my wife
SUN 5:00 AM – Sometime around then, the fever began to break
SUN 7:00 AM – Got out of bed, feeling 85% normal
SUN 9:00 AM – Went to church, mainly just a little groggy but otherwise feeling almost normal
SUN 1:00 PM – 100% normal, well enough to chores around the house
Even though I felt quite feverish most of Saturday, my temperature was actually only one or two degrees above normal. The body aches weren't as bad as having the flu, but I still felt pretty miserable all day.
I'm glad I had someone else cover for me on drums in church yesterday, because one of my side-effects was a weakened hand grip. That's kind of important for playing the drums.
Onset = 14 hours after the shot
Duration = 22 hours from onset to almost normal
Thanks for this information. This morning I mainly felt intense fatigue like I haven't felt in years, plus a mild headache, but as the day has gone on I've started getting downright cold despite it being 74° outside (I just put on a sweatshirt and I'm still cold). Clearly vaccine-related. Took me longer than you to feel it, though–I got the shot at 8:45 yesterday morning.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 20, 2021, 03:16:55 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 20, 2021, 03:16:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2021, 01:34:37 PM
If you get a vaccine and one of the side effects is that someone else dies, is that grounds to pull the vaccine or no?
Wouldn't that technically be soul/life force harvesting?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: noelbotevera on April 20, 2021, 04:38:58 PM
Post by: noelbotevera on April 20, 2021, 04:38:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2021, 01:34:37 PMThat's causation, not correlation.
If you get a vaccine and one of the side effects is that someone else dies, is that grounds to pull the vaccine or no?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 04:56:09 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 04:56:09 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 20, 2021, 04:38:58 PM
That's causation, not correlation.
Hey, keep that sort of talk in the Alanland thread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 20, 2021, 06:33:57 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 20, 2021, 06:33:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 20, 2021, 01:38:50 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 19, 2021, 02:02:03 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:16:52 PMQuote from: Duke87 on April 16, 2021, 08:25:19 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
pffft. When the person giving me the shot says it's OK to take Tylenol to help with the discomfort...
The nurse who gave me mine said that I could take OTC pain meds IF things got bad, but not to do so proactively. This seems to be in line with what the CDC is saying.
I just got back from getting my second poke and running some deliveries with my wife. I asked the nurse about Advil while she was filling out my form. She said, of course, that Tylenol is the recommendation, and that it should be your first choice. But, she said, Advil is not contra-indicated. So, absent Tylenol, she said your first course of action should be to take nothing, but Advil is OK as a second choice. She also mentioned that it is not recommended to take anything proactively.
Actually, I only ended up taking one Advil late this morning, and nothing since then. I never really take anything proactively to begin with, so it didn't take much of you guys talking about it to get me to decide not to take any more. But yeah, if I end up feeling miserable later, I'll go for the Advil.
I decided to take no meds–Tylenol or Advil–following my second jab Friday evening, unless side-effects kept me from sleeping during the night. So the following is an account of my side-effects of the second Pfizer dose with no analgesic/anti-inflammatory drugs.
FRI 7:00 PM – Got the shot, just site soreness, nothing else
FRI 8:30 PM – Decided to have my weekend cocktail a day early, in case I felt like crap later
SAT 7:00 AM – Woke up after a good night's rest, still just a sore injection site, nothing else
SAT 9:00 AM – Began to experience mild chills and body ache, which increased with time
SAT 12:00 PM – Jacket and stocking cap on full-time, most of my time spent under two blankets
SAT 2:00 PM – Began to feel slight shortness of breath–as if a deep breath might make me cough
SAT 3:30 PM – By this time, had taken a hot bath and also a brief nap
SAT 9:30 PM – Went to bed still feverish and physically shivering against my wife
SUN 5:00 AM – Sometime around then, the fever began to break
SUN 7:00 AM – Got out of bed, feeling 85% normal
SUN 9:00 AM – Went to church, mainly just a little groggy but otherwise feeling almost normal
SUN 1:00 PM – 100% normal, well enough to chores around the house
Even though I felt quite feverish most of Saturday, my temperature was actually only one or two degrees above normal. The body aches weren't as bad as having the flu, but I still felt pretty miserable all day.
I'm glad I had someone else cover for me on drums in church yesterday, because one of my side-effects was a weakened hand grip. That's kind of important for playing the drums.
Onset = 14 hours after the shot
Duration = 22 hours from onset to almost normal
Thanks for this information. This morning I mainly felt intense fatigue like I haven't felt in years, plus a mild headache, but as the day has gone on I've started getting downright cold despite it being 74° outside (I just put on a sweatshirt and I'm still cold). Clearly vaccine-related. Took me longer than you to feel it, though–I got the shot at 8:45 yesterday morning.
I signed off work at 3:00 and went to bed. Sheet, two blankets, and the bedspread, plus had my socks on, and that was about just right in terms of warming me up. Woke up at 6:15 to hit the head and then I was too warm when I went back to bed, so I got up. Being so cold reminded me of how my father was in the month or two before he died–he was always cold and would even have on jeans and polar fleece on an 85° June day. If a vaccine can do that to you, the virus must really be something.
So for me, it was closer to 30 hours before the worst of the side effects hit.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Sonuvagun, Duke. Freakin' NYC people stopped getting vaccinated -- especially Brooklyn. Lots of supply left, but the rate of vaccination is no longer climbing. Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 10:28:53 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 20, 2021, 10:28:53 PM
My first dose has been scheduled for Monday 4/26. Exciting!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on April 21, 2021, 10:20:23 AM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on April 21, 2021, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Sonuvagun, Duke. Freakin' NYC people stopped getting vaccinated -- especially Brooklyn. Lots of supply left, but the rate of vaccination is no longer climbing. Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
We're reaching the point in the mass vaccination process where most of the people who actively want the vaccine are at least scheduled. Slowdowns due to demand dropping off due to access issues or general resistance are or will soon start to happen, to one extent or another, across the US.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 10:39:23 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 10:39:23 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on April 21, 2021, 10:20:23 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Sonuvagun, Duke. Freakin' NYC people stopped getting vaccinated -- especially Brooklyn. Lots of supply left, but the rate of vaccination is no longer climbing. Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
We're reaching the point in the mass vaccination process where most of the people who actively want the vaccine are at least scheduled. Slowdowns due to demand dropping off due to access issues or general resistance are or will soon start to happen, to one extent or another, across the US.
I'm not scheduled yet, and having become eligible just two days ago along with a whole bunch of other people, I don't expect to be soon.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AM
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2021, 11:07:40 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2021, 11:07:40 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
How convenient is it for someone to get a vaccine in these circumstances? For me it was because all I had to do was walk a couple buildings over and wait in a short line. My wife conversely has no interest nor the patience to wait in a mass vaccination line with her car idling for over an hour. Her take is that it is better to wait until a more convenient means is available to her. I would have been of the same mindset had I been presented with the same means of availability. I think a lot people don't consider things like that when they call people "stupid" for not getting the vaccine as a blanket statement.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 11:15:56 AM
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2021, 11:07:40 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
How convenient is it for someone to get a vaccine in these circumstances? For me it was because all I had to do was walk a couple buildings over and wait in a short line. My wife conversely has no interest nor the patience to wait in a mass vaccination line with her car idling for over an hour. Her take is that it is better to wait until a more convenient means is available to her. I would have been of the same mindset had I been presented with the same means of availability. I think a lot people don't consider things like that when they call people "stupid" for not getting the vaccine as a blanket statement.
Unless things are drastically different downstate, perhaps, there appear to be no lengthy lines here in NY at our sites to rationalize a delay. The appointments are well-staggered and organized.
So, keep in mind the context of our little race between CT and NY.
Hour-long drive-thrus would indeed suck and I haven't experienced with anything like that, even at our testing sites.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 11:17:07 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 11:17:07 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 11:15:56 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2021, 11:07:40 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
How convenient is it for someone to get a vaccine in these circumstances? For me it was because all I had to do was walk a couple buildings over and wait in a short line. My wife conversely has no interest nor the patience to wait in a mass vaccination line with her car idling for over an hour. Her take is that it is better to wait until a more convenient means is available to her. I would have been of the same mindset had I been presented with the same means of availability. I think a lot people don't consider things like that when they call people "stupid" for not getting the vaccine as a blanket statement.
Unless things are drastically different downstate, perhaps, there appear to no lengthy lines here in NY at our sites to rationalize a delay. The appointments are well-staggered and organized.
So, keep in mind the context of our little race between CT and NY.
From other posts in this thread, things are drastically different downstate.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:07:15 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:07:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals. Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it. The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing. At least that's the way it is in Wichita. I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.
Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:07:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals. Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it. The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing. At least that's the way it is in Wichita. I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.
Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.
Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:25:19 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:25:19 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.
And, see, I say it's a moral failure to slander a career school nurse you don't even know as someone who doesn't care about protecting people.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on April 21, 2021, 12:34:30 PM
Post by: Jim on April 21, 2021, 12:34:30 PM
I've discussed the vaccines with lots of people who I know personally (work colleagues, family, friends, students in my classes). I can't think of even one who isn't either vaccinated or intends to be soon. I did hear from a friend that his fairly elderly mother was advised by her doctor not to get a covid vaccine because she had previous adverse reactions to vaccines. Of course, I haven't discussed with everyone I know so I am sure there are some who will choose not to get a vaccine, whether for reasons I'd personally consider to be good or to be misguided. I suppose there are many reasons people have, and they have the right to make their own decision about it. What kind of reasons have people been hearing?
Maybe this should branch off to a different thread.
Maybe this should branch off to a different thread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 12:34:50 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AM
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
Well, it's more complex than that. A large percentage of people refusing to get vaccinated are racial minorities, who for quite understandable reasons have a culturally ingrained distrust of government. There is, in fact, some specific baggage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study) with the government offering what they claim to be free medical treatment to minorities...
But regardless, it is because of this that New York (55.1% non-hispanic white) will have a lower voluntary vaccine uptake rate than Connecticut (71.2% non-hispanic white), and at this point therefore really has no chance of catching up to Connecticut.
Even within Connecticut, the effect is visible. On a town by town basis, how many people have gotten vaccinated most obviously correlates with what percentage of the town voted for whom in recent elections (https://www.ctinsider.com/news/coronavirus/ctpost/article/Analysis-CT-towns-with-lower-COVID-vaccine-16113566.php). However, towns with large minority populations (e.g. Hartford, Bridgeport, New Haven) jump out as clear exceptions to this trend.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 21, 2021, 12:50:03 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 21, 2021, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 11:15:56 AMUnless things are drastically different downstate, perhaps, there appear to be no lengthy lines here in NY at our sites to rationalize a delay. The appointments are well-staggered and organized.
(. . .)
Hour-long drive-thrus would indeed suck and I haven't experienced with anything like that, even at our testing sites.
People's wait times have been very uneven, as can be seen just from the reports in this thread. My father, who has had his two Pfizer shots, reports waiting for over an hour for the first shot and less than fifteen minutes for the second. I suspect a large share of those who still haven't been vaccinated do plan to get the shots, but are waiting for enough slack to develop in the system that they are virtually guaranteed a short wait when they do go. This was actually my original strategy, but I felt I had to change course when mask mandates started unraveling here.
Quote from: Jim on April 21, 2021, 12:34:30 PMOf course, I haven't discussed with everyone I know so I am sure there are some who will choose not to get a vaccine, whether for reasons I'd personally consider to be good or to be misguided. I suppose there are many reasons people have, and they have the right to make their own decision about it. What kind of reasons have people been hearing?
From a retired music teacher at a Catholic school: "I just don't believe in vaccines." I think the lesson here is that education and intellectual capacity don't necessarily add up to acceptance of empiricism.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 12:59:47 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: Jim on April 21, 2021, 12:34:30 PM
What kind of reasons have people been hearing?
From the dude who came to clean out our air ducts a couple weeks ago: "I dunno, I'm not sure it's safe, what if we start finding next year that people who got vaccinated start having nasty problems from them".
This seems to be one of the most common reasons in general, especially among relatively young healthy people who perceive their risk of covid itself to be low and would rather take their chances with it as "it's the devil we know".
The upshot is most of these people are willing to get vaccinated eventually... but, unfortunately, the point at which they become comfortable doing so may not be in the near term.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 21, 2021, 01:04:26 PM
Post by: US 89 on April 21, 2021, 01:04:26 PM
Quote from: Jim on April 21, 2021, 12:34:30 PM
What kind of reasons have people been hearing?
My mom's haircut lady apparently doesn't want to get it because she thinks it causes infertility.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Post by: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:19:41 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PMYou might think differently once vaccine passports are needed to go to most major events.
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 21, 2021, 01:22:43 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 21, 2021, 01:22:43 PM
A while ago I looked at how vaccination was playing out among US service personnel. Because none of the available vaccines have progressed beyond emergency use authorization, service members are allowed to decline them, though some in Congress have questioned whether they should have this option.
* Vaccination rate for the military as a whole is slightly above that of the US population.
* In some Army units, only 30% of soldiers have accepted vaccine when it has been offered.
* Rates improve (to acceptance of 80%-90%) when units go on deployment.
* The covid case fatality rate is very low--something like 123 out of over 150,000 cases, or about 0.08%. This is almost certainly a result of (1) a wide range of pre-existing conditions being disqualifying for service, (2) soldiers being required to maintain physical fitness (including a high degree of aerobic conditioning) on an ongoing basis, and (3) the active-duty population skewing young compared to the US population as a whole (careers longer than 20 years are rare, and potential recruits begin needing waivers at age 28 depending on service branch). The risk reduction for a service member from being vaccinated thus falls within less than a percentage point of the case fatality rate for the US armed forces as a whole, though the reduction in risk of death from covid is probably still at least three orders of magnitude.
* Vaccination rate for the military as a whole is slightly above that of the US population.
* In some Army units, only 30% of soldiers have accepted vaccine when it has been offered.
* Rates improve (to acceptance of 80%-90%) when units go on deployment.
* The covid case fatality rate is very low--something like 123 out of over 150,000 cases, or about 0.08%. This is almost certainly a result of (1) a wide range of pre-existing conditions being disqualifying for service, (2) soldiers being required to maintain physical fitness (including a high degree of aerobic conditioning) on an ongoing basis, and (3) the active-duty population skewing young compared to the US population as a whole (careers longer than 20 years are rare, and potential recruits begin needing waivers at age 28 depending on service branch). The risk reduction for a service member from being vaccinated thus falls within less than a percentage point of the case fatality rate for the US armed forces as a whole, though the reduction in risk of death from covid is probably still at least three orders of magnitude.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 21, 2021, 01:22:43 PMGetting a vaccine isn't just about your own risk. It's about being able to reopen society and continue life as normal. Look at Israel's cases after 50% and more got vaccinated. Cases have dropped like a rock. Also 30% want it in some units? That's insane!
A while ago I looked at how vaccination was playing out among US service personnel. Because none of the available vaccines have progressed beyond emergency use authorization, service members are allowed to decline them, though some in Congress have questioned whether they should have this option.
* Vaccination rate for the military as a whole is slightly above that of the US population.
* In some Army units, only 30% of soldiers have accepted vaccine when it has been offered.
* Rates improve (to acceptance of 80%-90%) when units go on deployment.
* The covid case fatality rate is very low--something like 123 out of over 150,000 cases, or about 0.08%. This is almost certainly a result of (1) a wide range of pre-existing conditions being disqualifying for service, (2) soldiers being required to maintain physical fitness (including a high degree of aerobic conditioning) on an ongoing basis, and (3) the active-duty population skewing young compared to the US population as a whole (careers longer than 20 years are rare, and potential recruits begin needing waivers at age 28 depending on service branch). The risk reduction for a service member from being vaccinated thus falls within less than a percentage point of the case fatality rate for the US armed forces as a whole, though the reduction in risk of death from covid is probably still at least three orders of magnitude.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:26:45 PM
Post by: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:26:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:19:41 PMWell so far, that idea hasn't really been implemented anywhere. And if it is, it would increase vaccinations for people in the second category, but wouldn't do anything to the first.Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PMYou might think differently once vaccine passports are needed to go to most major events.
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:32:10 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:32:10 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:26:45 PMHopefully the first category is swayed as time goes on and people don't suffer any insane side effects.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:19:41 PMWell so far, that idea hasn't really been implemented anywhere. And if it is, it would increase vaccinations for people in the second category, but wouldn't do anything to the first.Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PMYou might think differently once vaccine passports are needed to go to most major events.
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2021, 01:35:28 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2021, 01:35:28 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.
For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.
Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:36:43 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:36:43 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 01:35:28 PMBingo. Also, I want to be able to see my 3 year old cousin. She can't get the vaccine yet, so I need to get it so I can see her.Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.
For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.
Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 01:36:50 PM
Post by: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 01:36:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
Then they trust stupid people. Or are being kept from the vaccine by stupid people.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 01:36:50 PMWho is keeping people from getting the vaccine?Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
Then they trust stupid people. Or are being kept from the vaccine by stupid people.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 02:00:11 PM
Post by: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 02:00:11 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:36:43 PMWhy can't you see her? Unless she's immune-compromised, I don't see any reason why you can't, children have the very lowest chances of getting sick from Covid.Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 01:35:28 PMBingo. Also, I want to be able to see my 3 year old cousin. She can't get the vaccine yet, so I need to get it so I can see her.Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.
For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.
Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 02:02:17 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 02:02:17 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 02:00:11 PMSome people are very cautious.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:36:43 PMWhy can't you see her? Unless she's immune-compromised, I don't see any reason why you can't, children have the very lowest chances of getting sick from Covid.Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 01:35:28 PMBingo. Also, I want to be able to see my 3 year old cousin. She can't get the vaccine yet, so I need to get it so I can see her.Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.
For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.
Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 02:27:43 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 02:27:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
Getting a vaccine isn't just about your own risk. It's about being able to reopen society and continue life as normal.
Life here has pretty much reopened and returned to normal. Putting a mask on when entering a business that requires it–that's about the only non-normal thing anymore, and that's required whether you've been vaccinated or not.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 02:02:17 PMQuote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 02:00:11 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:36:43 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 01:35:28 PMQuote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.
For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.
Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.
Bingo. Also, I want to be able to see my 3 year old cousin. She can't get the vaccine yet, so I need to get it so I can see her.
Why can't you see her? Unless she's immune-compromised, I don't see any reason why you can't, children have the very lowest chances of getting sick from Covid.
Some people are very cautious.
Well, don't be surprised if most people don't take more precautions than the current CDC guidelines.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 01:35:28 PM
For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.
The threat of a potential scenario that isn't actually happening–that's not exactly strong, compelling motivation for someone to get something they're already worried about the long-term effects of.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 02:27:43 PM"Normal" isn't quite "normal", though. For me personally, April 2021 is more similar to April 2020 than it is to April 2019. And some changes are likely to endure, like more people working from home, more meetings being done virtually instead of in-person, and less traffic.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
Getting a vaccine isn't just about your own risk. It's about being able to reopen society and continue life as normal.
Life here has pretty much reopened and returned to normal.
Is it too early to assess the long-term consequences? I'm not sure. That's a question I've been pondering for the last month or so. Just as one example, I find the possibility that traffic may never return to pre-covid levels very depressing, so I try not to think about it too much.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:11:17 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:11:17 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PMWhat's the problem with less traffic?Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 02:27:43 PM"Normal" isn't quite "normal", though. For me personally, April 2021 is more similar to April 2020 than it is to April 2019. And some changes are likely to endure, like more people working from home, more meetings being done virtually instead of in-person, and less traffic.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
Getting a vaccine isn't just about your own risk. It's about being able to reopen society and continue life as normal.
Life here has pretty much reopened and returned to normal.
Is it too early to assess the long-term consequences? I'm not sure. That's a question I've been pondering for the last month or so. Just as one example, I find the possibility that traffic may never return to pre-covid levels very depressing, so I try not to think about it too much.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:18:11 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:18:11 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
"Normal" isn't quite "normal", though.
I wasn't speaking for your area.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:19:04 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:19:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:18:11 PMThe northeast is a lot more strict.Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
"Normal" isn't quite "normal", though.
I wasn't speaking for your area.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:18:11 PMQuote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
"Normal" isn't quite "normal", though.
I wasn't speaking for your area.
Forget the line comparing Aprils - isn't this the case everywhere?
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
... some changes are likely to endure, like more people working from home, more meetings being done virtually instead of in-person, and less traffic.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:28:13 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:28:13 PM
If they are truly "enduring" changes, then they have nothing to do with "a vaccine [not being] just about your own risk ... [but] being able to reopen society and continue life as normal".
Having said that, there are still some folks working from home who will likely return to the office eventually. But I doubt getting a vaccine will affect that one way or the other for most people: you'll either get to come back to the office or you won't, regardless.
Having said that, there are still some folks working from home who will likely return to the office eventually. But I doubt getting a vaccine will affect that one way or the other for most people: you'll either get to come back to the office or you won't, regardless.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:11:17 PMQuote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PMWhat's the problem with less traffic?
... Just as one example, I find the possibility that traffic may never return to pre-covid levels very depressing, so I try not to think about it too much.
Less traffic makes roadgeeking less fun. It also means there's less to talk about. And it's sad to think that fewer people are out traveling. It's just another sign that "normal" isn't really "normal".
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:35:19 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:35:19 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Less traffic makes roadgeeking less fun.
There's a thread for statements like that. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28884.0)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 21, 2021, 03:37:59 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 21, 2021, 03:37:59 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:32:07 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:11:17 PMQuote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PMWhat's the problem with less traffic?
... Just as one example, I find the possibility that traffic may never return to pre-covid levels very depressing, so I try not to think about it too much.
Less traffic makes roadgeeking less fun. It also means there's less to talk about. And it's sad to think that fewer people are out traveling. It's just another sign that "normal" isn't really "normal".
There's less people commuting, although there seems to be quite a number of people traveling.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:19:04 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:18:11 PMThe northeast is a lot more strict.Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
"Normal" isn't quite "normal", though.
I wasn't speaking for your area.
Well, you're still going to have to get more specific.
New Hampshire's mask mandate expired April 16 and removed capacity limits. Other states in the northeast continue to allow greater capacity limits, most at 50% and above. At least in my state, I'm having a tough time determining if anything is really being enforced beyond very obvious violations (no seats at the bar, for example). There was an issue at an outdoor raceway on Sunday, where the State Police shut down a venue due to "Capacity Limits"...even though at the time of the shutdown, they were still well under the Covid-capacity limit of the venue at the time. There was a lot of congestion on the roads leading to the raceway, causing many to believe local officials and residents, some of whom are not fond of the race track, may have made some calls.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 21, 2021, 03:37:59 PM
New Hampshire's mask mandate expired April 16 and removed capacity limits.
1. Many cities and towns had a mask mandate in New Hampshire before the statewide one went into effect. Some of the citywide ones are probably still in effect.
2. New Hampshire is leading the country (i.e. #1) in percent with at least one shot, unless the New York Times has a typo.
3. New Hampshire is the only Republican-controlled state in the entire area; surrounding blue states probably won't remove mask mandates as quickly. (Some of the surrounding states have Republican governors, but they have Democratic legislatures. Republicans also control the state legislature in New Hampshire.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:47:49 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:47:49 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
... isn't this the case everywhere?Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:10:27 PM
... some changes are likely to endure, like more people working from home, more meetings being done virtually instead of in-person, and less traffic.
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:28:13 PM
If they are truly "enduring" changes, then they have nothing to do with "a vaccine [not being] just about your own risk ... [but] being able to reopen society and continue life as normal"..
Huh? They still resulted from Covid. I guess I should have trimmed out RGT's bit, because my point was simply about whether things are normal, and really had nothing to do with the implications of the vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:35:19 PMQuote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Less traffic makes roadgeeking less fun.
There's a thread for statements like that. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28884.0)
No, that's for un-popular opinions. :-P
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:52:02 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:52:02 PM
Ah, gotcha. I guess I meant "as normal as it's going to get".
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:52:31 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:52:31 PM
How does less traffic make roadgeeking less fun? I'm honestly at a loss on that one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 21, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 21, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 03:47:10 PMQuote from: jeffandnicole on April 21, 2021, 03:37:59 PM
New Hampshire's mask mandate expired April 16 and removed capacity limits.
1. Many cities and towns had a mask mandate in New Hampshire before the statewide one went into effect. Some of the citywide ones are probably still in effect.
2. New Hampshire is leading the country (i.e. #1) in percent with at least one shot, unless the New York Times has a typo.
3. New Hampshire is the only Republican-controlled state in the entire area; surrounding blue states probably won't remove mask mandates as quickly. (Some of the surrounding states have Republican governors, but they have Democratic legislatures. Republicans also control the state legislature in New Hampshire.)
Alabama is often cited as one of the worst states in percent with at least one shot, and they eliminated their mask mandate also. So...not a perfect reason. And regardless of the reasons, the statement I responded to, which you excluded, was "the northeast is a lot more strict". Clearly NH is not. There also wasn't a comparison made, so "more strict" in respect to what? Kansas? Florida? California? The Northwest? The entire rest of the country?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 04:16:03 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 04:16:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 03:52:31 PM
How does less traffic make roadgeeking less fun? I'm honestly at a loss on that one.
Busy roads are a sign of normalcy, and in fact, probably one of my favorite signs of normalcy.
Traffic gives us something to talk about on this forum, and something to grumble about while making our morning coffee. It makes road trips more interesting, and provides us with better stories to tell when we return - especially to the big cities, where traffic is an integral part of the travel experience. Traffic gives us a reason to dream up interchange improvements and widenings and new freeway corridors, free of any "well, this was needed before Covid" disclaimers. Historically, traffic is also a sign of a good and/or improving economy and heightened economic activity. Positive vibes all around.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:23:54 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:23:54 PM
I actively avoid big cities on road trips, and I think traffic makes them more stressful.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 21, 2021, 04:28:00 PM
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 21, 2021, 04:28:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
"Some of them, I assume, are good people." - The Former Guy
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 04:36:19 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 04:36:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:23:54 PM
I actively avoid big cities on road trips, and I think traffic makes them more stressful.
Of course, the actual act of sitting in traffic on a freeway isn't as fun as cruising at 70 mph. But it does keep you alert, and is usually also memorable in a way that cruising at 70 mph isn't.
And to be clear, I'm referring to higher traffic volumes overall, not just traffic jams and delays.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:41:20 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:41:20 PM
And I'm saying that, when traffic volumes are high, I have little opportunity to look at things, take pictures, etc. Give me a deserted road over a crowded road any day.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 04:43:30 PM
Post by: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 04:43:30 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:37:32 PMAnti-vax caretakers. Bosses who overwork employees and won't let them take off for side effects. Officials who refuse to provide accessible sites.
Who is keeping people from getting the vaccine?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 04:51:45 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:41:20 PM
And I'm saying that, when traffic volumes are high, I have little opportunity to look at things, take pictures, etc. Give me a deserted road over a crowded road any day.
As a driver, or passenger?
(I can give an opposing case either way, but no point in typing both if I don't need to! :-P)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 04:53:00 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 04:53:00 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 04:43:30 PMCaretakers and employees I see, health officials are generally pro-vax.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:37:32 PMAnti-vax caretakers. Bosses who overwork employees and won't let them take off for side effects. Officials who refuse to provide accessible sites.
Who is keeping people from getting the vaccine?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:55:37 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:55:37 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 04:53:00 PMQuote from: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 04:43:30 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Who is keeping people from getting the vaccine?
Anti-vax caretakers. Bosses who overwork employees and won't let them take off for side effects. Officials who refuse to provide accessible sites.
Caretakers and employees I see, health officials are generally pro-vax.
That doesn't necessarily contradict what |NE2| said. They can be pro-vax but still fail to provide accessible sites.
(Edited to add: Such does not make them stupid, however.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:12:47 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 12:34:50 PMI think you've undercounted stupid white anti-vaxxers.Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AM
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
Well, it's more complex than that. A large percentage of people refusing to get vaccinated are racial minorities, who for quite understandable reasons have a culturally ingrained distrust of government. There is, in fact, some specific baggage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study) with the government offering what they claim to be free medical treatment to minorities...
But regardless, it is because of this that New York (55.1% non-hispanic white) will have a lower voluntary vaccine uptake rate than Connecticut (71.2% non-hispanic white), and at this point therefore really has no chance of catching up to Connecticut.
Even within Connecticut, the effect is visible. On a town by town basis, how many people have gotten vaccinated most obviously correlates with what percentage of the town voted for whom in recent elections (https://www.ctinsider.com/news/coronavirus/ctpost/article/Analysis-CT-towns-with-lower-COVID-vaccine-16113566.php). However, towns with large minority populations (e.g. Hartford, Bridgeport, New Haven) jump out as clear exceptions to this trend.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on April 21, 2021, 05:13:14 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on April 21, 2021, 05:13:14 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PMBingo. That's my train of thought. It should be noted that the Covid vaccines were only approved by emergency authorization, not by long-term testing for efficacy and side effects.
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:13:39 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 21, 2021, 05:13:14 PMGet vaccinated.Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PMBingo. That's my train of thought. It should be noted that the Covid vaccines were only approved by emergency authorization, not by long-term testing for efficacy and side effects.
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on April 21, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
Post by: jakeroot on April 21, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
Poll question:
For those that voted "priority group not yet eligible", please update your vote if that's not the case anymore.
For everyone else: update your vote if you haven't already.
I'm just curious where we stand.
For those that voted "priority group not yet eligible", please update your vote if that's not the case anymore.
For everyone else: update your vote if you haven't already.
I'm just curious where we stand.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 05:23:23 PM
Post by: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:13:39 PMI'd wager telling people "get vaccinated" in response to a valid concern is going to make them even less likely to do it.Quote from: CoreySamson on April 21, 2021, 05:13:14 PMGet vaccinated.Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PMBingo. That's my train of thought. It should be noted that the Covid vaccines were only approved by emergency authorization, not by long-term testing for efficacy and side effects.
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:25:53 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:25:53 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 05:23:23 PMThe concern is not valid, precisely because the confidence in the reviews and tests caused officials to authorize its use. The vaccine is safe.Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:13:39 PMI'd wager telling people "get vaccinated" in response to a valid concern is going to make them even less likely to do it.Quote from: CoreySamson on April 21, 2021, 05:13:14 PMGet vaccinated.Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PMBingo. That's my train of thought. It should be noted that the Covid vaccines were only approved by emergency authorization, not by long-term testing for efficacy and side effects.
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
If you don't think it's safe, you're listening to the wrong people.
So, don't be stupid: Get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 21, 2021, 05:26:19 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 21, 2021, 05:26:19 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 04:43:30 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:37:32 PMAnti-vax caretakers. Bosses who overwork employees and won't let them take off for side effects. Officials who refuse to provide accessible sites.
Who is keeping people from getting the vaccine?
But, but, but, kernals12 has told us that "overwork" is a myth because technology means we can get our jobs done in less time so we have more time off, which in this case would mean no problem taking off for side effects.
(Yesterday I didn't ask: I sent a message saying I was signing off to go take a nap and I explained why. My boss's reaction was along the lines of that I should have signed off sooner.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 05:39:59 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 05:39:59 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 05:23:23 PMI trust the health experts over random people on the internet.Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:13:39 PMI'd wager telling people "get vaccinated" in response to a valid concern is going to make them even less likely to do it.Quote from: CoreySamson on April 21, 2021, 05:13:14 PMGet vaccinated.Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:17:27 PMBingo. That's my train of thought. It should be noted that the Covid vaccines were only approved by emergency authorization, not by long-term testing for efficacy and side effects.
Of the people I know (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:
1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.
2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 06:06:58 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 06:06:58 PM
This line of discussion has become like talking to Fritz.
– People who elect not to get vaccinated are stupid, selfish anti-vaxxers.
– The people I know who are electing not to get vaccinated have the following concerns, which are neither selfish, stupid, nor anti-science.
– People who elect not to get vaccinated are stupid, selfish anti-vaxxers.
– The people I know who are electing not to get vaccinated are intelligent, spend their lives dedicated to the well-being of others, and are not anti-vaxxers.
– Get vaccinated. I think this is needed.
– People who elect not to get vaccinated are stupid, selfish anti-vaxxers.
– The people I know who are electing not to get vaccinated have the following concerns, which are neither selfish, stupid, nor anti-science.
– People who elect not to get vaccinated are stupid, selfish anti-vaxxers.
– The people I know who are electing not to get vaccinated are intelligent, spend their lives dedicated to the well-being of others, and are not anti-vaxxers.
– Get vaccinated. I think this is needed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 06:15:07 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 21, 2021, 06:15:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 06:06:58 PM
This line of discussion has become like talking to Fritz.
I would compare it more to dzlsabe or HighwayStar. FritzOwl doesn't even acknowledge criticism; dzlsabe and HighwayStar push back.
However, I'm on the "you do need to get vaccinated" side of the debate, just without the insults.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:07:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals. Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it. The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing. At least that's the way it is in Wichita. I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.
Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.
Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.
I chose this post for a reply instead of the original post or Kyle's rebuttal.
I reject both arguments. Not getting the shot is not an unintelligent decision, nor is it an immoral decision.
I have weighed the pros and cons and for various reasons, have determined that I will not be taking the shot. I'm not an "anti-vaxxer" by any stretch, but I'm skeptical of this particular one. I got all the popular childhood shots as a kid growing up in the 1960s, but I have no memories of ever being vaccinated for anything. I couldn't tell you the last time I got a tetanus shot. Maybe in five years, if covid is still around and causing major problems and no long-term issues have manifested themselves among the vaccinated, I will reconsider. But I have never taken a flu shot and I've never had the flu -- including last year, when in February I had close contact with someone who tested positive for the flu later that day; contact close enough that if he'd had covid and not the flu, the government would have tried to imprison me in my own home for two weeks.
I have my doubts about the long-term safety of the shot, since it is so new and relatively untested, and also do not see an individual need for me to take the shot. There are a number of other factors that led to my decision. My risk of contracting covid as I go about my normal life -- meaning life prior to February 2020 -- is relatively low. Which means that I'm not at risk of spreading it to others, especially since it's been stated that you can still catch and transmit covid even after having taken the shot. And my taking the shot would do nothing to protect others since the vaccinated can still spread the virus; others can choose to get the shot, wear masks, keep distance, stay home, or whatever else they feel they need to do.
I would neither encourage nor discourage anyone to get the shot. Contrary to popular belief here, it's not the right decision for everyone. I would instead hope that they evaluate their own individual situations and come to a decision with which they're comfortable. I'm perfectly comfortable with my decision. I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2021, 08:22:29 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2021, 08:22:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:07:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals. Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it. The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing. At least that's the way it is in Wichita. I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.
Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.
Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.
I chose this post for a reply instead of the original post or Kyle's rebuttal.
I reject both arguments. Not getting the shot is not an unintelligent decision, nor is it an immoral decision.
I have weighed the pros and cons and for various reasons, have determined that I will not be taking the shot. I'm not an "anti-vaxxer" by any stretch, but I'm skeptical of this particular one. I got all the popular childhood shots as a kid growing up in the 1960s, but I have no memories of ever being vaccinated for anything. I couldn't tell you the last time I got a tetanus shot. Maybe in five years, if covid is still around and causing major problems and no long-term issues have manifested themselves among the vaccinated, I will reconsider. But I have never taken a flu shot and I've never had the flu -- including last year, when in February I had close contact with someone who tested positive for the flu later that day; contact close enough that if he'd had covid and not the flu, the government would have tried to imprison me in my own home for two weeks.
I have my doubts about the long-term safety of the shot, since it is so new and relatively untested, and also do not see an individual need for me to take the shot. There are a number of other factors that led to my decision. My risk of contracting covid as I go about my normal life -- meaning life prior to February 2020 -- is relatively low. Which means that I'm not at risk of spreading it to others, especially since it's been stated that you can still catch and transmit covid even after having taken the shot. And my taking the shot would do nothing to protect others since the vaccinated can still spread the virus; others can choose to get the shot, wear masks, keep distance, stay home, or whatever else they feel they need to do.
I would neither encourage nor discourage anyone to get the shot. Contrary to popular belief here, it's not the right decision for everyone. I would instead hope that they evaluate their own individual situations and come to a decision with which they're comfortable. I'm perfectly comfortable with my decision. I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
It most certainly can. The more people who do not get vaccinated, the longer the virus can spread, and the longer it spreads, the greater chance that a vaccine-resistant strain emerges and kills me even though I got vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 08:32:14 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 08:32:14 PM
This line that "I am not an anti-vaxxer but I have the same concerns of anti-vaxxers regarding this vaccination" is an interesting position. It's like signing up for the losing team.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: citrus on April 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Post by: citrus on April 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Since my spouse is, in fact, an infectious disease doctor at a hospital that participated in clinical trials.... thought I'd weigh in on a few things here. In her opinion, the CDC / government entities are being very conservative about vaccines and their effect on covid-19, mostly because they are still waiting for real-world data (which has started to come in, from Israel) to corroborate what the scientists and clinicians strongly believe based on biology and theory.
IMO, the biggest problem with choosing not to get the vaccine is the risk of contracting the disease as an unvaccinated person, and transmitting it to someone who has an immune system weak enough that the vaccine was ineffective. At some point, an unvaccinated person getting covid or transmitting to another unvaccinated person is on them.
Oh, and I got to change my answer to the poll today :) was finally my turn for my first shot. I didn't even have to leave the car for it!
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PMThese vaccines have been tested at least as much as previous vaccines were before rolling out to the general public.
relatively untested
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PMYou are right, that has been definitely stated by the CDC, the news, etc. Based on how the vaccines are supposed to work (from a biological perspective), this is unlikely, and data from places where vaccines rolled out very quickly (i.e. Israel) are starting to show that while this is technically true, the probability of catching and transmitting is significantly lowered for people who have been vaccinated, and people who do catch it are having significantly less severe outcomes. See Myth #2 in https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/6-myths-about-covid-19-vaccines-debunked
it's been stated that you can still catch and transmit covid even after having taken the shot
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 08:22:29 PMThis is also unlikely. The virus mutates extremely slowly compared with influenza. The vaccines target the very part of the virus that attaches to human cells, so a mutation that evades the vaccine will also be unable to attach to human cells. Also see Myth #6 in https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/6-myths-about-covid-19-vaccines-debunked
greater chance that a vaccine-resistant strain emerges and kills me even though I got vaccinated
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PMFair enough, but there have basically never been long-term safety problems with any vaccine that don't show up within the first couple months. At this point, we've given the vaccines to enough people, long enough ago, that we would have discovered them by now. For example: https://www.chop.edu/news/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-vaccine
I have my doubts about the long-term safety of the shot
IMO, the biggest problem with choosing not to get the vaccine is the risk of contracting the disease as an unvaccinated person, and transmitting it to someone who has an immune system weak enough that the vaccine was ineffective. At some point, an unvaccinated person getting covid or transmitting to another unvaccinated person is on them.
Oh, and I got to change my answer to the poll today :) was finally my turn for my first shot. I didn't even have to leave the car for it!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2021, 09:29:31 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2021, 09:29:31 PM
Quote from: citrus on April 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 08:22:29 PMThis is also unlikely. The virus mutates extremely slowly compared with influenza. The vaccines target the very part of the virus that attaches to human cells, so a mutation that evades the vaccine will also be unable to attach to human cells. Also see Myth #6 in https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/6-myths-about-covid-19-vaccines-debunked
greater chance that a vaccine-resistant strain emerges and kills me even though I got vaccinated
From the article you referenced:
Quote
The so-called South African variant, technically known as B.1.351, and the Brazilian variant, known as P.1, are similar and do not seem to be as easily neutralized by the vaccines, Sette says. But that doesn't mean the vaccines are completely useless. "We have been doing some calculations and it seems that most of the pieces that the T cells recognize are not changed in the variants," he says. "What that means is that the T cell response [induced by the vaccine] may not prevent infection, but it can impact disease severity."
We already have two variants that have better vaccine resistance than the original. While these may not be able to cause severe disease, the fact that they can infect vaccinated people at all means there is definitely the possibility of a more potent variant in the future. We need to get to 60-70% of adults vaccinated ASAP.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 09:38:04 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 21, 2021, 01:26:45 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:19:41 PMWell so far, that idea hasn't really been implemented anywhere. And if it is, it would increase vaccinations for people in the second category, but wouldn't do anything to the first.
You might think differently once vaccine passports are needed to go to most major events.
It has in New York. State guidelines require you provide a recent negative test or proof of vaccination in order to attend any large event. Of course, that's New York - most states are not doing this.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
And my taking the shot would do nothing to protect others since the vaccinated can still spread the virus
Thank you for providing a great example of why I've been banging my head against walls for months enraged at the fact that afraid-of-their-own-shadow public health officials and fearmongering media outlets alike keep repeating this.
This whole "vaccinated people can still spread the virus so still need to exercise all precautions" business needs to stop. It is actively damaging to public health efforts because of exactly what is seen here - it is a flawed premise which encourages people to arrive at flawed conclusions such as "getting vaccinated does nothing to protect others, therefore I have no social responsibility to do so since this decision only affects me" or "why should I bother getting vaccinated if it doesn't enable me to return to living like normal".
The actual fact of the matter is... because clinical trials were expedited for the sake of emergency use, how effective the vaccines are at presenting a vaccinated person from transmitting the virus was not studied. Thus, when vaccines were first approved for emergency use, the risk-averse bureaucracy we have said "since we don't have data on this, we need to play it safe and assume that vaccinated people may still be able to spread". The media and the general public, however, aren't good with nuance and just heard "vaccinated people are still able to spread", even though if you listen closely that's not actually what the experts said.
Meanwhile, in the months since, a fair body of data has been collected which suggests that yes, in fact, vaccines are fairly effective at preventing the vaccinated individual from transmitting to others, though exactly how effective has still yet to be firmly quantified.
Nonetheless, it was far-fetched from the beginning that a vaccine which is 95% effective at preventing illness would somehow be 0% effective at preventing transmission. This is not consistent with how any other vaccine works, and it fails a basic sanity check besides. All it ever actually was was advice to, out of abundance of caution in the face of lack of data, assume the worst case theoretically possible. It was never a statement of confirmed science.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 21, 2021, 09:38:57 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 21, 2021, 09:38:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:07:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals. Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it. The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing. At least that's the way it is in Wichita. I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.
Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.
Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.
I chose this post for a reply instead of the original post or Kyle's rebuttal.
I reject both arguments. Not getting the shot is not an unintelligent decision, nor is it an immoral decision.
I have weighed the pros and cons and for various reasons, have determined that I will not be taking the shot. I'm not an "anti-vaxxer" by any stretch, but I'm skeptical of this particular one. I got all the popular childhood shots as a kid growing up in the 1960s, but I have no memories of ever being vaccinated for anything. I couldn't tell you the last time I got a tetanus shot. Maybe in five years, if covid is still around and causing major problems and no long-term issues have manifested themselves among the vaccinated, I will reconsider. But I have never taken a flu shot and I've never had the flu -- including last year, when in February I had close contact with someone who tested positive for the flu later that day; contact close enough that if he'd had covid and not the flu, the government would have tried to imprison me in my own home for two weeks.
I have my doubts about the long-term safety of the shot, since it is so new and relatively untested, and also do not see an individual need for me to take the shot. There are a number of other factors that led to my decision. My risk of contracting covid as I go about my normal life -- meaning life prior to February 2020 -- is relatively low. Which means that I'm not at risk of spreading it to others, especially since it's been stated that you can still catch and transmit covid even after having taken the shot. And my taking the shot would do nothing to protect others since the vaccinated can still spread the virus; others can choose to get the shot, wear masks, keep distance, stay home, or whatever else they feel they need to do.
I would neither encourage nor discourage anyone to get the shot. Contrary to popular belief here, it's not the right decision for everyone. I would instead hope that they evaluate their own individual situations and come to a decision with which they're comfortable. I'm perfectly comfortable with my decision. I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
The one concern here that I think is valid is that we haven't had enough time to test the long-term safety data. We don't know for sure that the shot is 100% safe long-term, because the first person was only injected with it thirteen months ago. And I'd also agree that your personal risk is your personal decision, and that your weighing your risk of getting sick from Covid against your risk from the vaccine is up to you alone.
But the issue, the way I see it, is that your decision on taking the shot does affect other people. "My shot won't help others because the vaccinated can still transmit" - that's not entirely true. The Pfizer and Moderna shots have around 90% efficacy at preventing transmission, and Anthony Fauci or anyone else who says the research suggesting that "isn't enough" is hedging his bets so hard that he'll probably be wearing a mask until the day he dies. (This is part of what bothers me about those suggesting that a vaccine shouldn't mean the end of masking and distancing - it totally disincentivizes people from getting a shot by being quiet about the fact that it really does protect against spread.) Getting a shot nearly entirely eliminates your chance of spreading the virus. To be honest, despite CDC guidance to the contrary, I'll be hard-pressed to avoid going back to 2019-type life - unmasked hangouts and the like - once I have my second shot and know that the odds of my contracting or spreading Covid are near zero.
As to the risk of long-term health impacts - it's worth noting that almost no vaccine on the market has a history of frequent unanticipated long-term effects, and nothing in mRNA research suggests that this shot would be any different.
(EDIT: Duke87 said exactly what I said, only better. I second everything in the above post.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 09:43:24 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 09:43:24 PM
People are ignoring citrus' rebuttal to the idea that long-term safety data hasn't been collected.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on April 21, 2021, 09:55:59 PM
Post by: Jim on April 21, 2021, 09:55:59 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 09:38:04 PM
This whole "vaccinated people can still spread the virus so still need to exercise all precautions" business needs to stop.
+100000000 to this and the reasoning that followed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 21, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 21, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 04:55:37 PMPlus vaccination site locations aren't necessarily decided by health experts. Something that high profile, you can bet that elected officials are involved.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 04:53:00 PMQuote from: NE2 on April 21, 2021, 04:43:30 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Who is keeping people from getting the vaccine?
Anti-vax caretakers. Bosses who overwork employees and won't let them take off for side effects. Officials who refuse to provide accessible sites.
Caretakers and employees I see, health officials are generally pro-vax.
That doesn't necessarily contradict what |NE2| said. They can be pro-vax but still fail to provide accessible sites.
(Edited to add: Such does not make them stupid, however.)
Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 21, 2021, 09:38:57 PMRegarding masking and distancing, I agree with respect to private gatherings, but in public, one has no way of knowing if a random stranger has the vaccine or not. Even if the random stranger says they're vaccinated, you do you know they're telling the truth? You can't. Hence the need to still take precautions even when vaccinated, at least in public.Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:07:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals. Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it. The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing. At least that's the way it is in Wichita. I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.
Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.
Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.
I chose this post for a reply instead of the original post or Kyle's rebuttal.
I reject both arguments. Not getting the shot is not an unintelligent decision, nor is it an immoral decision.
I have weighed the pros and cons and for various reasons, have determined that I will not be taking the shot. I'm not an "anti-vaxxer" by any stretch, but I'm skeptical of this particular one. I got all the popular childhood shots as a kid growing up in the 1960s, but I have no memories of ever being vaccinated for anything. I couldn't tell you the last time I got a tetanus shot. Maybe in five years, if covid is still around and causing major problems and no long-term issues have manifested themselves among the vaccinated, I will reconsider. But I have never taken a flu shot and I've never had the flu -- including last year, when in February I had close contact with someone who tested positive for the flu later that day; contact close enough that if he'd had covid and not the flu, the government would have tried to imprison me in my own home for two weeks.
I have my doubts about the long-term safety of the shot, since it is so new and relatively untested, and also do not see an individual need for me to take the shot. There are a number of other factors that led to my decision. My risk of contracting covid as I go about my normal life -- meaning life prior to February 2020 -- is relatively low. Which means that I'm not at risk of spreading it to others, especially since it's been stated that you can still catch and transmit covid even after having taken the shot. And my taking the shot would do nothing to protect others since the vaccinated can still spread the virus; others can choose to get the shot, wear masks, keep distance, stay home, or whatever else they feel they need to do.
I would neither encourage nor discourage anyone to get the shot. Contrary to popular belief here, it's not the right decision for everyone. I would instead hope that they evaluate their own individual situations and come to a decision with which they're comfortable. I'm perfectly comfortable with my decision. I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
The one concern here that I think is valid is that we haven't had enough time to test the long-term safety data. We don't know for sure that the shot is 100% safe long-term, because the first person was only injected with it thirteen months ago. And I'd also agree that your personal risk is your personal decision, and that your weighing your risk of getting sick from Covid against your risk from the vaccine is up to you alone.
But the issue, the way I see it, is that your decision on taking the shot does affect other people. "My shot won't help others because the vaccinated can still transmit" - that's not entirely true. The Pfizer and Moderna shots have around 90% efficacy at preventing transmission, and Anthony Fauci or anyone else who says the research suggesting that "isn't enough" is hedging his bets so hard that he'll probably be wearing a mask until the day he dies. (This is part of what bothers me about those suggesting that a vaccine shouldn't mean the end of masking and distancing - it totally disincentivizes people from getting a shot by being quiet about the fact that it really does protect against spread.) Getting a shot nearly entirely eliminates your chance of spreading the virus. To be honest, despite CDC guidance to the contrary, I'll be hard-pressed to avoid going back to 2019-type life - unmasked hangouts and the like - once I have my second shot and know that the odds of my contracting or spreading Covid are near zero.
As to the risk of long-term health impacts - it's worth noting that almost no vaccine on the market has a history of frequent unanticipated long-term effects, and nothing in mRNA research suggests that this shot would be any different.
(EDIT: Duke87 said exactly what I said, only better. I second everything in the above post.)
I'm pretty sure even CDC guidance allows for private, unmasked, social distancing-free gatherings among fully vaccinated people, or with up to one household not fully vaccinated if the non-vaccinated people are low risk.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 21, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 21, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
To the above post: It does. And for sure, once I'm fully vaccinated in two weeks, I'll still wear a mask in the store and whatnot, mostly as a means to make people feel better. (Other people don't know who has their shots and who doesn't, and since I don't have a big "I'm Vaccinated!" sticker, I'll keep the mask on.) But since it's just for show, when I'm in a private circumstance - with, really, any number of unvaccinated or vaccinated people who know I have my shots - I can let my guard down. My 90% protection in that setting against spreading is better than anything I could have had with a mask and no vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:26:01 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:26:01 AM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 21, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
(Other people don't know who has their shots and who doesn't, and since I don't have a big "I'm Vaccinated!" sticker, I'll keep the mask on.)
Oklahoma actually did hand out a big "I'm Vaccinated!" sticker at the site where I got my first dose. Except the nurse that vaccinated my wife forgot to give her one, so she dug around in her purse and put on an "I Voted!" sticker she had in there instead.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 03:02:53 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 03:02:53 AM
Maybe we should pay people to get the vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 03:37:51 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 03:37:51 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 03:02:53 AM
Maybe we should pay people to get the vaccine.
I've seen that studies from past vaccines have actually shown that paying people lowers vaccination rates, because then people think "if it was any good they wouldn't have to pay us to get it".
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 09:03:32 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 09:03:32 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 03:37:51 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 03:02:53 AM
Maybe we should pay people to get the vaccine.
I've seen that studies from past vaccines have actually shown that paying people lowers vaccination rates, because then people think "if it was any good they wouldn't have to pay us to get it".
Amusingly I more or less was in a backhanded way. My employer provided the vaccine site in a convenient location and allotted time for me to go get it. It sure motivated me to deal with a potentially long line that I would have otherwise might have chose to avoid given I was working. Granted I also think we will require the vaccine soon unless there is a justifiable medical exemption.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 22, 2021, 09:58:23 AM
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 22, 2021, 09:58:23 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 12:07:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 10:41:28 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 10:07:55 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.
My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.
If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.
If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.
I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals. Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it. The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing. At least that's the way it is in Wichita. I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.
Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.
Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.
I chose this post for a reply instead of the original post or Kyle's rebuttal.
I reject both arguments. Not getting the shot is not an unintelligent decision, nor is it an immoral decision.
I have weighed the pros and cons and for various reasons, have determined that I will not be taking the shot. I'm not an "anti-vaxxer" by any stretch, but I'm skeptical of this particular one. I got all the popular childhood shots as a kid growing up in the 1960s, but I have no memories of ever being vaccinated for anything. I couldn't tell you the last time I got a tetanus shot. Maybe in five years, if covid is still around and causing major problems and no long-term issues have manifested themselves among the vaccinated, I will reconsider. But I have never taken a flu shot and I've never had the flu -- including last year, when in February I had close contact with someone who tested positive for the flu later that day; contact close enough that if he'd had covid and not the flu, the government would have tried to imprison me in my own home for two weeks.
I have my doubts about the long-term safety of the shot, since it is so new and relatively untested, and also do not see an individual need for me to take the shot. There are a number of other factors that led to my decision. My risk of contracting covid as I go about my normal life -- meaning life prior to February 2020 -- is relatively low. Which means that I'm not at risk of spreading it to others, especially since it's been stated that you can still catch and transmit covid even after having taken the shot. And my taking the shot would do nothing to protect others since the vaccinated can still spread the virus; others can choose to get the shot, wear masks, keep distance, stay home, or whatever else they feel they need to do.
I would neither encourage nor discourage anyone to get the shot. Contrary to popular belief here, it's not the right decision for everyone. I would instead hope that they evaluate their own individual situations and come to a decision with which they're comfortable. I'm perfectly comfortable with my decision. I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
That certainly makes me feel better about everything - the same people that are opting to not get the vaccine "out of personal choice" are one and the same as the people who would leave the house if they actually got Covid.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
But it does. If you're the one that "keeps the virus going" and eventually mutations are created that bypass vaccines, it certainly affects me.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 12:08:42 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:26:01 AMQuote from: Ketchup99 on April 21, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
(Other people don't know who has their shots and who doesn't, and since I don't have a big "I'm Vaccinated!" sticker, I'll keep the mask on.)
Oklahoma actually did hand out a big "I'm Vaccinated!" sticker at the site where I got my first dose. Except the nurse that vaccinated my wife forgot to give her one, so she dug around in her purse and put on an "I Voted!" sticker she had in there instead.
At my sister-in-law's workplace, they were handing out "I'm Vaccinated" masks. Since she -- a person with two college degrees who will be earning her third degree, a post-graduate degree, this weekend, so she certainly doesn't qualify as "unintelligent" -- is not taking the shot, they told her, "You don't get one." She replied, "I don't want one!"
I'm surprised that a market for "I'm Vaccinated" masks hasn't popped up yet. Indeed, I'm seeing more and more masks on clearance in retail stores. The market seems to have become saturated.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 03:02:53 AM
Maybe we should pay people to get the vaccine.
I've actually pondered this. If they paid me a life-altering sum of money (minimum of six figures) then I would consider it. For a payment more closely resembling one of the recent stimulus payments, which is an idea that's been floated? Nope.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
I find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot. For that matter, I never have either. With full understanding that the coronavirus and influenza virus are not exactly equivalent, influenza is contagious for a couple of days before symptoms develop, the CDC recommends that everyone get the shot every year, and the worldwide death count during the 2009-10 pandemic was in six figures. Yet for some reason, not getting a flu shot seems to be a perfectly acceptable decision while not getting a COVID shot means he wants your nephew to die of a variant twelve years from now.
I've had influenza twice. The first time, I came down with it the day before driving from Chicago to Minneapolis to meet my now-wife's in-laws for the first time at a huge family Christmas party. I went into a house full of thirty or forty people of all ages while knowingly infected with a contagious respiratory disease known to kill thousands of people every year and, when I hesitated to shake people's hands and told them I had influenza, most of them told me not to worry about it and shook my hand anyway. This was completely normal behavior 15 years ago and, if I had told this story to you in 2019 instead of 2021, nobody would have even batted an eye. Some of you might even have told your own similar stories with a chuckle.
The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half. But not for everyone, it hasn't. As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?" To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before: it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks. Their worldview hasn't changed. Yours has.
When they want everyone to keep wearing masks and not gather in groups, people tell us the virus can still spread even if we're vaccinated.
When they want everyone to get vaccinated, people tell us it will stop the spread of the virus.
Go figure when someone calls bullshit on that.
No, no, no. That only happens if (1) he even gets the virus to begin with and also (2) you end up getting it later too. Absent both of those conditions, you are not affected. You're placing a whole lot of blame on someone based on a whole lot of hypotheticals.
Kind of like that time I mentioned an elderly group of Bible study members at my church having a holiday luncheon at someone's house, and it was claimed on here that doing so would cause people to die. Nope, it didn't. Not a single person contracted the virus during that luncheon, so the accusation was false.
I've had influenza twice. The first time, I came down with it the day before driving from Chicago to Minneapolis to meet my now-wife's in-laws for the first time at a huge family Christmas party. I went into a house full of thirty or forty people of all ages while knowingly infected with a contagious respiratory disease known to kill thousands of people every year and, when I hesitated to shake people's hands and told them I had influenza, most of them told me not to worry about it and shook my hand anyway. This was completely normal behavior 15 years ago and, if I had told this story to you in 2019 instead of 2021, nobody would have even batted an eye. Some of you might even have told your own similar stories with a chuckle.
The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half. But not for everyone, it hasn't. As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?" To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before: it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks. Their worldview hasn't changed. Yours has.
Quote from: Jim on April 21, 2021, 09:55:59 PMQuote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 09:38:04 PM
This whole "vaccinated people can still spread the virus so still need to exercise all precautions" business needs to stop.
+100000000 to this and the reasoning that followed.
When they want everyone to keep wearing masks and not gather in groups, people tell us the virus can still spread even if we're vaccinated.
When they want everyone to get vaccinated, people tell us it will stop the spread of the virus.
Go figure when someone calls bullshit on that.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 08:22:29 PMQuote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
It most certainly can. The more people who do not get vaccinated, the longer the virus can spread, and the longer it spreads, the greater chance that a vaccine-resistant strain emerges and kills me even though I got vaccinated.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
But it does. If you're the one that "keeps the virus going" and eventually mutations are created that bypass vaccines, it certainly affects me.
No, no, no. That only happens if (1) he even gets the virus to begin with and also (2) you end up getting it later too. Absent both of those conditions, you are not affected. You're placing a whole lot of blame on someone based on a whole lot of hypotheticals.
Kind of like that time I mentioned an elderly group of Bible study members at my church having a holiday luncheon at someone's house, and it was claimed on here that doing so would cause people to die. Nope, it didn't. Not a single person contracted the virus during that luncheon, so the accusation was false.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 12:47:26 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 12:47:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
I find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot. For that matter, I never have either. With full understanding that the coronavirus and influenza virus are not exactly equivalent, influenza is contagious for a couple of days before symptoms develop, the CDC recommends that everyone get the shot every year, and the worldwide death count during the 2009-10 pandemic was in six figures. Yet for some reason, not getting a flu shot seems to be a perfectly acceptable decision while not getting a COVID shot means he wants your nephew to die of a variant twelve years from now.
I hadn't ever gotten a flu shot prior to this previous year either. I always had the mentality that I didn't really care if I got the flu. Corona has made me reevaluate myself and now I think I was just being ignorant. I will get the flu shot every year from here on out. It's not about me.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
No, no, no. That only happens if (1) he even gets the virus to begin with and also (2) you end up getting it later too. Absent both of those conditions, you are not affected. You're placing a whole lot of blame on someone based on a whole lot of hypotheticals.
Kind of like that time I mentioned an elderly group of Bible study members at my church having a holiday luncheon at someone's house, and it was claimed on here that doing so would cause people to die. Nope, it didn't. Not a single person contracted the virus during that luncheon, so the accusation was false.
Even if I don't get it, I don't want others to get it. It's not about me.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 22, 2021, 12:51:53 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 22, 2021, 12:51:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 21, 2021, 08:22:29 PMQuote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.
It most certainly can. The more people who do not get vaccinated, the longer the virus can spread, and the longer it spreads, the greater chance that a vaccine-resistant strain emerges and kills me even though I got vaccinated.Quote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
But it does. If you're the one that "keeps the virus going" and eventually mutations are created that bypass vaccines, it certainly affects me.
No, no, no. That only happens if (1) he even gets the virus to begin with and also (2) you end up getting it later too. Absent both of those conditions, you are not affected. You're placing a whole lot of blame on someone based on a whole lot of hypotheticals.
Kind of like that time I mentioned an elderly group of Bible study members at my church having a holiday luncheon at someone's house, and it was claimed on here that doing so would cause people to die. Nope, it didn't. Not a single person contracted the virus during that luncheon, so the accusation was false.
Both of those conditions are more likely if he doesn't get vaccinated, and that increased likelihood multiplies the more people who don't get it.
It's free, it's been shown to be safe, and it does your part to protect the entire country. It's pretty selfish to not get vaccinated and refuse to help protect others.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
... influenza is contagious for a couple of days before symptoms develop, the CDC recommends that everyone get the shot every year, and the worldwide death count during the 2009-10 pandemic was in six figures.
The flu is still less deadly than covid, especially for older people, so there's a lot less risk associated with spreading it to elderly and other high-risk individuals. Also, the swine flu is different than the regular flu, so the "six figures" is a major outlier.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 01:00:16 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 01:00:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half. But not for everyone, it hasn't. As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?" To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before: it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks. Their worldview hasn't changed. Yours has.
It's funny the way your worldview changes when you're personally affected by something, but doesn't when you're not.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 01:09:41 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 01:00:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half. But not for everyone, it hasn't. As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?" To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before: it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks. Their worldview hasn't changed. Yours has.
It's funny the way your worldview changes when you're personally affected by something, but doesn't when you're not.
I'll tread lightly per TOS, but it's also worldviews based on science vs. something else. I'm not trying to say that I'm willing to jump through a million hoops to try to prevent anyone from ever getting sick again. Obviously that is a fool's errand. I am willing, however, to get stabbed in the shoulder twice and feel like crap for 16 hours to prevent adding any totals to the already 3 million people that have died. ::shrug:: I guess the Nazis taking over the world could have been God's will and we shouldn't celebrate the Greatest Generation for making a far greater sacrifice to save lives.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 01:24:44 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 01:24:44 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 01:00:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half. But not for everyone, it hasn't. As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?" To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before: it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks. Their worldview hasn't changed. Yours has.
It's funny the way your worldview changes when you're personally affected by something, but doesn't when you're not.
I kind of feel like I have a fatalistic view on life compared to most people. From the get go I was pretty skeptical with COVID and wondered if the degree of panic and regulations in the long run would have done more harm than the virus itself. For me it certainly hasn't changed much in my own life, it was/is just another obstacle to overcome. I've certainly been far more affected personally by things like heart disease and cancer killing relatives. Even in my own life I've had what I would deem to be subjectively scarier health concerns than what COVID presents.
I came to conclusion after both my Mom and Dad died from cancer that it wasn't worth it for me to living in fear of the same happening to me. I guess for me it is hard for me look at something like COVID and take it as seriously/be fearful as many are. The way I see it is that I along with everyone I know has a 100% chance of death and it would be in all our interests to attempt to do something meaningful with ourselves before our time is up.
But yeah, I'll take a vaccine and wear a mask if that's what is required of me. That said, I won't anyone ever tell me again that seeing family or even trying to maintain my own physical health is a bad thing.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:25:00 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:25:00 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 12:47:26 PM
Even if I don't get it, I don't want others to get it. It's not about me.
Then why did you say "But it does" in response to "My not taking the shot doesn't affect you"? Did you mean secondhand? As in, your sympathy for other people affecting you?
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 22, 2021, 12:51:53 PM
Both of those conditions are more likely if he doesn't get vaccinated, and that increased likelihood multiplies the more people who don't get it.
Yes, I know that. And I assume that, by this point, you know I know that. But you guys keep stating as fact something that is only hypothetical. Don't be surprised when the other person isn't convinced by that kind of statement.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 22, 2021, 12:51:53 PM
It's free, it's been shown to be safe, and it does your part to protect the entire country. It's pretty selfish to not get vaccinated and refuse to help protect others.
So back to what I said earlier: are people selfish to not get the flu shot? Heck, chickenpox for that matter? While I don't believe that people who don't get vaccinated for those things are necessarily selfish, I still somehow hope that your reasoning is consistent enough for you to say yes.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 01:09:41 PM
I guess the Nazis taking over the world could have been God's will and we shouldn't celebrate the Greatest Generation for making a far greater sacrifice to save lives.
Dipping a toe into the religion pool... To say that shit happens and that's part of life is not the same thing as saying "Shit happening is God's will". That's a whole theological debate I enjoy having, but this forum is not the place for it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:27:55 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:27:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 01:24:44 PM
I kind of feel like I have a fatalistic view on life compared to most people.
I first read that as "have a fantastic view on life". And, honestly, I think both might be true. Your comments during this time have been some of the most level-headed, refreshing comments I've personally read. I think your perspective is enviable. You've shaped how I think during this time more than probably any other member on here.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PMI find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot. For that matter, I never have either. With full understanding that the coronavirus and influenza virus are not exactly equivalent, influenza is contagious for a couple of days before symptoms develop, the CDC recommends that everyone get the shot every year, and the worldwide death count during the 2009-10 pandemic was in six figures. Yet for some reason, not getting a flu shot seems to be a perfectly acceptable decision while not getting a COVID shot means he wants your nephew to die of a variant twelve years from now.
I've had influenza twice. The first time, I came down with it the day before driving from Chicago to Minneapolis to meet my now-wife's in-laws for the first time at a huge family Christmas party. I went into a house full of thirty or forty people of all ages while knowingly infected with a contagious respiratory disease known to kill thousands of people every year and, when I hesitated to shake people's hands and told them I had influenza, most of them told me not to worry about it and shook my hand anyway. This was completely normal behavior 15 years ago and, if I had told this story to you in 2019 instead of 2021, nobody would have even batted an eye. Some of you might even have told your own similar stories with a chuckle.
The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half. But not for everyone, it hasn't. As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?" To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before: it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks. Their worldview hasn't changed. Yours has.
I wouldn't say my attitude to the flu shot has changed. I have had influenza several times, so I know what it is like. I have also gotten the shot in autumn or winter some years, though I haven't made it a habit to get one every year. There are some key differences between flu and covid:
* Risks of death and life-altering complications (such as permanent damage to organ systems and long covid syndrome) are at least an order of magnitude higher, even for low-risk groups, with covid than with the annual flu in most years.
* Flu does not spread asymptomatically, unlike covid, so the backup strategies for preventing transmission of flu (in the absence of effective vaccination) are less burdensome than for covid.
* The production process for flu vaccine dates from the 1940's, relies on chicken eggs, and involves long lead times to manufacture at scale. This leads to several problems. First, experts have to guess at which strains will be active in a given flu season about 18 months into the future, and in some years they guess wrong. Second, sometimes the viruses mutate during the production process, so the resulting vaccine is sometimes not effective even against the strains it is designed for.
Debora MacKenzie's Covid-19: the pandemic that should never have happened and how to stop the next one (likely available at your local public library) goes into further detail on these differences, other reasons response plans designed for flu pandemics don't necessarily work for covid, and misconceptions such as the common assumption that mutant strains will tend to be less virulent.
In this thread, I'm trying to steer clear of making a hard sell for covid vaccination, because I believe that comes with a high risk of calcifying vaccine hesitancy into refusal. Also, as about 87% of those participating in the poll have signaled that they have received or plan to receive the vaccine, this is probably not the best place to find those who are still vaccine-hesitant. I'd just note that with original covid evolving into more transmissible and more virulent strains, some of which are likely to be vaccine-resistant--such as B.1.1.7 with the E484K mutation--our battle is far from over. Michigan is spiking hard even though it has a high percentage of the population vaccinated. India is spiking even harder, to the extent that oxygen is being diverted from industrial production to hospitals, even though it too has a vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 22, 2021, 01:43:34 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 22, 2021, 01:43:34 PM
Again, treading as lightly as possible. From the beginning I have been less concerned with it than many of my liberal peers, continuing to do things such as dining in and continuing my work as a freelance sports broadcaster, which unfortunately and expectedly did mean I contracted the virus about 4-6 weeks ago. It sucked, but other people have had it much worse than I did.
I have felt a lot of blue states that were restriction-heavy have loosened them more out of political posturing than because they actually have gained control over the virus.
I have felt a lot of blue states that were restriction-heavy have loosened them more out of political posturing than because they actually have gained control over the virus.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 01:47:38 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 01:47:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:25:00 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 12:47:26 PM
Even if I don't get it, I don't want others to get it. It's not about me.
Then why did you say "But it does" in response to "My not taking the shot doesn't affect you"? Did you mean secondhand? As in, your sympathy for other people affecting you?
Because it very well could affect me either a) me getting it or b) someone I know getting it. I just think you'd be pissed if your parent or close relative died from Covid and it could have been prevented by something so simple. I actually had a family member pass from Covid, and I think a lot of the people who didn't have anyone close to them seriously get affected have far different points of view than those of use that had to attend a funeral.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:25:00 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 01:09:41 PM
I guess the Nazis taking over the world could have been God's will and we shouldn't celebrate the Greatest Generation for making a far greater sacrifice to save lives.
Dipping a toe into the religion pool... To say that shit happens and that's part of life is not the same thing as saying "Shit happening is God's will". That's a whole theological debate I enjoy having, but this forum is not the place for it.
Agreed it's not the place for it here re: religion, but my point was that sacrifices occasionally have to be made to prevent bad shit from happening, even if bad shit is part of life. This sacrifice is incredibly minor compared to an 18 year old in 1941 signing up to go to war.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:50:40 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:50:40 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 01:33:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
With full understanding that the coronavirus and influenza virus are not exactly equivalent,
There are some key differences between flu and covid:
* Flu does not spread asymptomatically, unlike covid, so the backup strategies for preventing transmission of flu (in the absence of effective vaccination) are less burdensome than for covid.
Umm..
Quote from: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): How the Flu Spreads
Most healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop ... That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 01:50:56 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 01:50:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 22, 2021, 01:43:34 PM
Again, treading as lightly as possible. From the beginning I have been less concerned with it than many of my liberal peers, continuing to do things such as dining in and continuing my work as a freelance sports broadcaster, which unfortunately and expectedly did mean I contracted the virus about 4-6 weeks ago. It sucked, but other people have had it much worse than I did.
And for me, I'm far less concerned about getting it than I am about spreading it. I'm young and healthy. I don't want me to be the reason that someone else that isn't young and healthy gets it. That's why I take precautions.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 22, 2021, 01:43:34 PMI have felt a lot of blue states that were restriction-heavy have loosened them more out of political posturing than because they actually have gained control over the virus.
Even as a liberal dude, I quite agree with this.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:51:27 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:51:27 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
* The production process for flu vaccine dates from the 1940's, relies on chicken eggs, and involves long lead times to manufacture at scale. This leads to several problems. First, experts have to guess at which strains will be active in a given flu season about 18 months into the future, and in some years they guess wrong. Second, sometimes the viruses mutate during the production process, so the resulting vaccine is sometimes not effective even against the strains it is designed for.
This is the main reason why I don't bother getting a flu shot. I'm not vaccine-averse, but there's so many places the flu shot can go wrong that I don't feel it's worth the hassle. I also haven't had the flu since I was a child, despite working in an environment where it made the rounds among our department most every winter.
Now that mRNA vaccine is proven technology and not restricted to the drawing board, it's possible on a technical level to make flu shots that are custom-written to target strains known, and not just predicted, to be in circulation, and which could be patched mid-season to cover any mutations. I would be more likely to get an mRNA flu shot if one were available.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:57:20 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:57:20 PM
↓ A true statement ↓
The fewer people getting vaccinated, the more people are likely to suffer or die from the coronavirus.
↓ Another true statement ↓
Because you are part of "the people", your choice not to be vaccinated statistically increases that likelihood, however infinitesimal that increase may be.
↓ Another true statement, based on the above ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated therefore has the very slight potential to affect me in the future.
↓ A false statement ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated has an effect on my life.
↓ A slanderous statement ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated was done out of selfishness, stupidity, and/or immorality.
The fewer people getting vaccinated, the more people are likely to suffer or die from the coronavirus.
↓ Another true statement ↓
Because you are part of "the people", your choice not to be vaccinated statistically increases that likelihood, however infinitesimal that increase may be.
↓ Another true statement, based on the above ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated therefore has the very slight potential to affect me in the future.
↓ A false statement ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated has an effect on my life.
↓ A slanderous statement ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated was done out of selfishness, stupidity, and/or immorality.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:25:00 PMSo back to what I said earlier: are people selfish to not get the flu shot? Heck, chickenpox for that matter? While I don't believe that people who don't get vaccinated for those things are necessarily selfish, I still somehow hope that your reasoning is consistent enough for you to say yes.
I caught chicken pox at age 14 from a first cousin once removed who was about three years old at the time. She had a mild case that was gone within 24 hours. I was incapacitated for a week and had to miss a summer program I was looking forward to. I have also known older adults who have had painful cases of shingles. As a result of these experiences, I have no problem whatsoever with chicken pox vaccination being a precondition for attending public school.
I know deaf people only slightly older than me who lost their hearing in the womb when their mothers had rubella shortly before a vaccine became available. So, again, I've never had a problem with the MMR shot being required.
Need I go on?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 02:18:34 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 02:18:34 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 02:01:12 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:25:00 PM
So back to what I said earlier: are people selfish to not get the flu shot? Heck, chickenpox for that matter? While I don't believe that people who don't get vaccinated for those things are necessarily selfish, I still somehow hope that your reasoning is consistent enough for you to say yes.
I caught chicken pox at age 14 from a first cousin once removed who was about three years old at the time. She had a mild case that was gone within 24 hours. I was incapacitated for a week and had to miss a summer program I was looking forward to. I have also known older adults who have had painful cases of shingles. As a result of these experiences, I have no problem whatsoever with chicken pox vaccination being a precondition for attending public school.
I know deaf people only slightly older than me who lost their hearing in the womb when their mothers had rubella shortly before a vaccine became available. So, again, I've never had a problem with the MMR shot being required.
Need I go on?
Well, just enough to actually answer the question. Are you claiming that those who don't get those vaccines are selfish people?
(I realize, of course, that most people get these as children, but not all do.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 02:26:20 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:50:40 PMUmm..Quote from: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): How the Flu SpreadsMost healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop ... That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.
From E. Patrozou and L.A. Mermel, "Does Influenza Transmission Occur from Asymptomatic Infection or Prior to Symptom Onset?", Public Health Reports 2009 Mar.-Apr., 124(2), pp. 193-196:
QuoteBased on the available literature, we found that there is scant, if any, evidence that asymptomatic or presymptomatic individuals play an important role in influenza transmission.
I accept that "Does not spread asymptomatically" is probably an overgeneralization for flu, but the stylized fact is that the large role asymptomatic transmission plays in the spread of covid is one of the biggest reasons countries with advanced public health capability--such as the US and the EU countries--failed to achieve containment. In the absence of specific information as to the role asymptomatic spread plays, countries had to make bets on whether it was large or small. The side of that wager that South Korea, Taiwan, and New Zealand took turned out to be a minority position.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 02:34:18 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 02:34:18 PM
Ah, yes, I read that report before posting. Doesn't jive with the CDC info. Where does that leave us?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 22, 2021, 02:48:01 PM
Post by: US 89 on April 22, 2021, 02:48:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PMQuote from: Jim on April 21, 2021, 09:55:59 PMQuote from: Duke87 on April 21, 2021, 09:38:04 PM
This whole "vaccinated people can still spread the virus so still need to exercise all precautions" business needs to stop.
+100000000 to this and the reasoning that followed.
When they want everyone to keep wearing masks and not gather in groups, people tell us the virus can still spread even if we're vaccinated.
When they want everyone to get vaccinated, people tell us it will stop the spread of the virus.
Go figure when someone calls bullshit on that.
Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think a lot of the reason behind the messaging we're getting now is politicians and public health leaders realizing that as soon as this pandemic is over, whatever special status or power they've gained over the course of the past year is going to go away. So naturally they're trying to hold onto those extra powers as long as they can.
The fearmongering clickbaity articles you'll see scattered around social media and the news ("Why We'll NEVER Be Able to Take Off Our Masks!!") are not helpful either. Obviously those are posted and shared because they get clicks, but I do think a lot of those are virtue-signalling type overreactions to the anti-mask/anti-vax crowds out there.
This, by the way, is no excuse to not wear a mask or get vaccinated. These are proven public health safety measures that aren't that hard to do... and they work.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 02:59:08 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 02:59:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 01:27:55 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 01:24:44 PM
I kind of feel like I have a fatalistic view on life compared to most people.
I first read that as "have a fantastic view on life". And, honestly, I think both might be true. Your comments during this time have been some of the most level-headed, refreshing comments I've personally read. I think your perspective is enviable. You've shaped how I think during this time more than probably any other member on here.
Can I win "least-refreshing perspective"? I try so hard to be unbiased and am so predisposed to neutrality that my opinions are usually knotted up into an inauthentic little pretzel.
Case in point: I've been following this thread with mild interest, but have not come down with any firm stances that I'm prepared to state and defend. Mostly, I'm just disappointed that we're once again pitting two irreconcilable worldviews against each other, and are thus set on an irreversible course towards <end thread> :no:
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
In this thread, I'm trying to steer clear of making a hard sell for covid vaccination, because I believe that comes with a high risk of calcifying vaccine hesitancy into refusal. Also, as about 87% of those participating in the poll have signaled that they have received or plan to receive the vaccine, this is probably not the best place to find those who are still vaccine-hesitant.
Speaking of refreshing perspectives, this is most definitely one, and a very well-put one, at that. I fully agree that trying to change minds here in this thread isn't going to do anything to help matters.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:08:24 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:08:24 PM
For what it's worth, my wife and I are both fully vaccinated. (Technically, I'm not yet considered fully vaccinated because it's been only six day's since my second shot.) I just grow weary of people slinging mud and accusing perfectly intelligent and decent people of being stupid and immoral. How long does one have to go through life before realizing that the person on the other side of an issue isn't necessarily an evil moron? And this goes well beyond the topic at hand.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: citrus on April 22, 2021, 03:14:57 PM
Post by: citrus on April 22, 2021, 03:14:57 PM
Re: Flu and Covid.... there's some very obvious real-world transmissibility data, which is: all the things we have collectively done for covid have pretty much eliminated flu entirely for this past (northern hemisphere) winter, while they were enough to barely keep up with covid. That is a HUGE difference between the two pathogens and how transmissible they are, enough to convince me that attitudes and behavior re: flu vaccines and covid vaccines can easily and justifiably be different.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 03:38:09 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 03:38:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:08:24 PM
For what it's worth, my wife and I are both fully vaccinated. (Technically, I'm not yet considered fully vaccinated because it's been only six day's since my second shot.) I just grow weary of people slinging mud and accusing perfectly intelligent and decent people of being stupid and immoral. How long does one have to go through life before realizing that the person on the other side of an issue isn't necessarily an evil moron? And this goes well beyond the topic at hand.
I don't think people on the other side of arguments from me are evil morons, nor stupid, nor immoral, and certainly none of those attributes would I apply to you. A lot of times when I get in discussions revolving around topics like this, it's not like I don't see the point of view of the person on the other side of the coin. I always try to empathize, and hopefully nothing I've said has come across as antagonistic. On the topic of Covid, however, I feel like some of those that don't want to get the vaccine are just short-sighted. I don't want to have a full butterfly effect argument, but at the same time if the person I'm discussing Covid with believes that personal responsibility only applies to that person themselves and that their choices don't affect anyone else, I am going to vocally disagree.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:43:55 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:43:55 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 03:38:09 PM
I don't want to have a full butterfly effect argument
(https://scienceonblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/droplet.png)
(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/b87e1de6-34b5-460a-ad13-49802ea73f52)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 03:45:05 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 03:45:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 02:34:18 PMOne study does not a science make. CDC is on top of the state of the art.
Ah, yes, I read that report before posting. Doesn't jive with the CDC info. Where does that leave us?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 03:56:54 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 03:56:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:43:55 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 03:38:09 PM
I don't want to have a full butterfly effect argument
<Memes>
I was thinking more this:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51xUuL-9vIL._AC_.jpg)
Actually not a horrid movie...
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on April 22, 2021, 04:08:28 PM
Post by: NE2 on April 22, 2021, 04:08:28 PM
If only Phoger's jab had microchips...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 04:12:28 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 04:12:28 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 22, 2021, 04:08:28 PMOh no not Bill Gates!
If only Phoger's jab had microchips...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 04:14:02 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 04:14:02 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 22, 2021, 04:08:28 PM
If only Phoger's jab had microchips...
Only if the serial number is 666.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
So, we're all agreed that HB needs to get vaccinated, right?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 04:42:48 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 04:42:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 02:18:34 PMWell, just enough to actually answer the question. Are you claiming that those who don't get those vaccines are selfish people?
No. Selfish is a loaded and pejorative word that does not, in my view, help the cause of developing herd immunity. I also don't think it does justice to the epistemic frameworks in which some people operate.
Nevertheless, I believe it is accurate to say that when people choose not to get vaccinated, they are socializing the costs of their personal choices to some degree. This is not necessarily a bad thing--for example, some elements of our economy (such as cheap highway transportation) are predicated on this socialization of costs. However, except in very unusual cases such as life-threatening complications from vaccination, it is hard to see what benefits accrue for vaccine refusal to the refuser's self, family, or community.
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
So, we're all agreed that HB needs to get vaccinated, right?
In the absence of compelling contraindications, that is what I would advise.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 22, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 22, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 01:50:56 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 22, 2021, 01:43:34 PM
Again, treading as lightly as possible. From the beginning I have been less concerned with it than many of my liberal peers, continuing to do things such as dining in and continuing my work as a freelance sports broadcaster, which unfortunately and expectedly did mean I contracted the virus about 4-6 weeks ago. It sucked, but other people have had it much worse than I did.
And for me, I'm far less concerned about getting it than I am about spreading it. I'm young and healthy. I don't want me to be the reason that someone else that isn't young and healthy gets it. That's why I take precautions.
I'm certainly not saying I want to be that person either; I wear my mask where required and I will be vaccinated (I postponed my planned first shot due to scheduling issues). It's just that while some of my friends believe there is no level of safe activity, still stay home as much as possible, decline to see anyone they don't need to interact with, etc. While I understand their views I myself don't feel uncomfortable sitting in a restaurant. That's my perspective and mine alone.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 04:51:44 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2021, 04:51:44 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 22, 2021, 04:48:59 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 01:50:56 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 22, 2021, 01:43:34 PM
Again, treading as lightly as possible. From the beginning I have been less concerned with it than many of my liberal peers, continuing to do things such as dining in and continuing my work as a freelance sports broadcaster, which unfortunately and expectedly did mean I contracted the virus about 4-6 weeks ago. It sucked, but other people have had it much worse than I did.
And for me, I'm far less concerned about getting it than I am about spreading it. I'm young and healthy. I don't want me to be the reason that someone else that isn't young and healthy gets it. That's why I take precautions.
I'm certainly not saying I want to be that person either; I wear my mask where required and I will be vaccinated (I postponed my planned first shot due to scheduling issues). It's just that while some of my friends believe there is no level of safe activity, still stay home as much as possible, decline to see anyone they don't need to interact with, etc. I myself don't feel uncomfortable sitting in a restaurant.
I'm in the same category as you then. Our circle of friends had all been smart, so we didn't mind seeing them occasionally. We tried to do as much outside as possible though until we all got vaccinated. I think I only have one friend who hasn't gotten his second shot (or got J&J before they paused it).
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 05:08:49 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 05:08:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
So, we're all agreed that HB needs to get vaccinated, right?
I don't care if he does or not, and I believe he is an adult who can make his own informed decision.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on April 22, 2021, 05:40:39 PM
Post by: NE2 on April 22, 2021, 05:40:39 PM
I'll take that as a yes. I'll get the jab while y'all hold him down.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: formulanone on April 22, 2021, 06:05:58 PM
Post by: formulanone on April 22, 2021, 06:05:58 PM
Dunno 'bout you all, but my cell phone reception has not improved after the second dose. :meh:
I do have a friend of the family who's in her 70s and immunocompromised (an autoimmune disorder of some kind), so she's been advised by her doctors to not get the vaccine. She's literally dependent that everyone else she knows has to get vaccinated before she's confident to be around others. But that's it, literally one individual out of many that I know; all other family members over 18, literally all of my co-workers who travel, and many that work from home. I don't know how many are going to abstain, perhaps a few people.
I've encountered lots of people who just say "hey I never get sick" or "I've never had the flu" (then how do they know this? the first time I had influenza, I was 17 and just chalked it up a crappy 14-day cold) but sometimes I do go to some small towns whereby colds and other viruses do not commonly (or knowingly) spread. Certainly, there's people who avoid others naturally or there's almost no place/desire to congregate. But COVID-19 did not seem to care about demographics and the size of municipal units if there were folks who met in close and surrounded quarters.
I do have a friend of the family who's in her 70s and immunocompromised (an autoimmune disorder of some kind), so she's been advised by her doctors to not get the vaccine. She's literally dependent that everyone else she knows has to get vaccinated before she's confident to be around others. But that's it, literally one individual out of many that I know; all other family members over 18, literally all of my co-workers who travel, and many that work from home. I don't know how many are going to abstain, perhaps a few people.
I've encountered lots of people who just say "hey I never get sick" or "I've never had the flu" (then how do they know this? the first time I had influenza, I was 17 and just chalked it up a crappy 14-day cold) but sometimes I do go to some small towns whereby colds and other viruses do not commonly (or knowingly) spread. Certainly, there's people who avoid others naturally or there's almost no place/desire to congregate. But COVID-19 did not seem to care about demographics and the size of municipal units if there were folks who met in close and surrounded quarters.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 07:54:30 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 22, 2021, 05:40:39 PMIt's a plan.
I'll take that as a yes. I'll get the jab while y'all hold him down.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 08:20:27 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 08:20:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
So, we're all agreed that HB needs to get vaccinated, right?
I think it's important to distinguish between "needs to" and "should".
Ultimately, yes, I think he should, but I think he should come to that himself, not be told so by strangers on a roads forum. Back to the earlier point about differing worldviews and how they've been shaped - or not - by the pandemic, I reckon his life in rural Kentucky has been significantly less impacted by Covid than those of us living in an urban or suburban area.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 22, 2021, 04:42:48 PM
... except in very unusual cases such as life-threatening complications from vaccination, it is hard to see what benefits accrue for vaccine refusal to the refuser's self, family, or community.
This is basically my position as well.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 08:30:16 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 08:30:16 PM
I think the state of Kentucky should make HB choose between getting the vaccine or staying a week in Louisville. :-D
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 08:30:16 PM
I think the state of Kentucky should make HB choose between getting the vaccine or staying a week in Louisville. :-D
I've done three nights there before. Three more would be a piece of cake.
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 08:20:27 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
So, we're all agreed that HB needs to get vaccinated, right?
I think it's important to distinguish between "needs to" and "should".
Ultimately, yes, I think he should, but I think he should come to that himself, not be told so by strangers on a roads forum.
Should I also get a Real ID? Do I need to get a Real ID?
Should I quit using my Valentine One? Do I need to quit using it?
Should I get my oil changed every 3-5,000 miles instead of letting the vehicle's internal system tell me when the oil needs changed? Do I need to get my oil changed every 3-5,000 miles instead of letting the vehicle's internal system tell me when the oil needs changed?
My own brother thinks I'm making a mistake in not getting the shot. And he is typically less inclined to buy into hype and pressure than I am. I figured he would be an even more staunch resister.
I have my reasons for choosing not to take the shot. They're quite valid reasons. I know a number of other people who have made the same decision for their own reasons.
I've been thinking about writing a long-form opinion piece on why I choose not to take the shot. If I do, I'll post the link here.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 09:27:07 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 08:30:16 PM
I think the state of Kentucky should make HB choose between getting the vaccine or staying a week in Louisville. :-D
I've done three nights there before. Three more would be a piece of cake.
Could be the fourth one that gets ya...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 22, 2021, 09:28:38 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 22, 2021, 09:28:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 08:30:16 PM
I think the state of Kentucky should make HB choose between getting the vaccine or staying a week in Louisville. :-D
I've done three nights there before. Three more would be a piece of cake.Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 08:20:27 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
So, we're all agreed that HB needs to get vaccinated, right?
I think it's important to distinguish between "needs to" and "should".
Ultimately, yes, I think he should, but I think he should come to that himself, not be told so by strangers on a roads forum.
Should I also get a Real ID? Do I need to get a Real ID?
Should I quit using my Valentine One? Do I need to quit using it?
Should I get my oil changed every 3-5,000 miles instead of letting the vehicle's internal system tell me when the oil needs changed? Do I need to get my oil changed every 3-5,000 miles instead of letting the vehicle's internal system tell me when the oil needs changed?
My own brother thinks I'm making a mistake in not getting the shot. And he is typically less inclined to buy into hype and pressure than I am. I figured he would be an even more staunch resister.
I have my reasons for choosing not to take the shot. They're quite valid reasons. I know a number of other people who have made the same decision for their own reasons.
I've been thinking about writing a long-form opinion piece on why I choose not to take the shot. If I do, I'll post the link here.
You will eventually need to get a real ID in order to fly or to access federal facilities. If you never do either of those things, you won't need a real ID.
As for the vaccine, I agree it's 100% your choice. I just want to make sure you understand that the larger the number of people who choose not to get the vaccine, the larger the risk is to everybody, vaccinated or not. You can't hide from the match/science that dictates the consequences of your choice.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ozarkman417 on April 22, 2021, 09:40:34 PM
Post by: ozarkman417 on April 22, 2021, 09:40:34 PM
My school had a vaccination clinic that allowed hundreds of students at my high school to receive their first dose of Pfizer, myself included.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 10:04:31 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 10:04:31 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on April 22, 2021, 09:40:34 PMLucky! That would make scheduling a lot easier.
My school had a vaccination clinic that allowed hundreds of students at my high school to receive their first dose of Pfizer, myself included.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 22, 2021, 10:17:19 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 22, 2021, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
I find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot.
Well, there is not a currently ongoing influenza pandemic that we're desperately trying to bring to an end, so there's no acute need to get as many people vaccinated against influenza as we can as quickly as we can.
FWIW, last September was the first time in my life I ever got a flu shot. Previously, I had never bothered since I am not in a high risk group, flu shots aren't that effective anyway, and since they are sometimes in short supply I felt it was best to save them for people who needed them more than I do.
Last year, however, a need emerged to keep influenza extra tamped down so we don't have to deal with it on top of covid. Thus, getting a flu shot suddenly felt like civic duty, and so I did. I plan on getting a flu shot again this year for the same reason.
As for slamming people in general, I echo the sentiment that it isn't productive. As much as I disagree with anyone deciding not to get vaccinated, bullying them about it isn't going to change their mind, so I won't engage in such.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 10:19:19 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 10:19:19 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 22, 2021, 10:17:19 PMWe shouldn't bully people, but making the best effort to educate them about it so that they are more likely to get it is important.Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
I find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot.
Well, there is not a currently ongoing influenza pandemic that we're desperately trying to bring to an end, so there's no acute need to get as many people vaccinated against influenza as we can as quickly as we can.
FWIW, last September was the first time in my life I ever got a flu shot. Previously, I had never bothered since I am not in a high risk group, flu shots aren't that effective anyway, and since they are sometimes in short supply I felt it was best to save them for people who needed them more than I do.
Last year, however, a need emerged to keep influenza extra tamped down so we don't have to deal with it on top of covid. Thus, getting a flu shot suddenly felt like civic duty, and so I did. I plan on getting a flu shot again this year for the same reason.
As for slamming people in general, I echo the sentiment that it isn't productive. As much as I disagree with anyone deciding not to get vaccinated, bullying them about it isn't going to change their mind, so I won't engage in such.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 22, 2021, 10:25:46 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 22, 2021, 10:25:46 PM
Regarding Real ID, note that requirement doesn't mean you have to get a compliant driver's license, media hype notwithstanding. I just renewed my license online and I'm not getting the Real ID version. I have three other IDs that are compliant, so why bother spending all that time at the DMV? I might reconsider in 2029, the next time I have to renew my license, because I'll have to go in person that time and that changes the calculation as to whether it's worth the time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 22, 2021, 10:54:58 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 22, 2021, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 22, 2021, 10:25:46 PM
Regarding Real ID, note that requirement doesn't mean you have to get a compliant driver's license, media hype notwithstanding.
Indeed, your passport (if you have one) is also a RealID compliant document.
That said, there are cases where you may have to get RealID for other reasons. For example, if you have an existing non-RealID compliant Connecticut drivers' license, you can renew it as such in perpetuity, upgrading to RealID is optional... however, if you are getting a new Connecticut drivers' license, either because you are becoming a newly licensed driver or because you are moving from out of state, you must provide all the necessary documentation to be issued a RealID compliant license. The state will not issue you a non-compliant one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 11:08:14 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
Should I also get a Real ID? Do I need to get a Real ID?
Should I quit using my Valentine One? Do I need to quit using it?
...
I don't really care, but to the larger point, none of those things are nearly as consequential as the Covid vaccination.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
My own brother thinks I'm making a mistake in not getting the shot. And he is typically less inclined to buy into hype and pressure than I am. I figured he would be an even more staunch resister.
Wouldn't that make you re-evaluate, then?
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
I have my reasons for choosing not to take the shot. They're quite valid reasons. I know a number of other people who have made the same decision for their own reasons.
I've been thinking about writing a long-form opinion piece on why I choose not to take the shot. If I do, I'll post the link here.
The bolded statements got a bit of a snort from me, as they would in almost any context. Saying that doesn't mean much of anything to anyone unless we know what the reasons are.
If you do write a long-form opinion piece, make sure it sufficiently addresses the following question (posed upthread by JN Winkler): What benefits accrue for vaccine refusal to the refuser's self, family, and community?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 11:15:52 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 11:15:52 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 10:19:19 PMQuote from: Duke87 on April 22, 2021, 10:17:19 PMWe shouldn't bully people, but making the best effort to educate them about it so that they are more likely to get it is important.Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 12:44:21 PM
I find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot.
Well, there is not a currently ongoing influenza pandemic that we're desperately trying to bring to an end, so there's no acute need to get as many people vaccinated against influenza as we can as quickly as we can.
FWIW, last September was the first time in my life I ever got a flu shot. Previously, I had never bothered since I am not in a high risk group, flu shots aren't that effective anyway, and since they are sometimes in short supply I felt it was best to save them for people who needed them more than I do.
Last year, however, a need emerged to keep influenza extra tamped down so we don't have to deal with it on top of covid. Thus, getting a flu shot suddenly felt like civic duty, and so I did. I plan on getting a flu shot again this year for the same reason.
As for slamming people in general, I echo the sentiment that it isn't productive. As much as I disagree with anyone deciding not to get vaccinated, bullying them about it isn't going to change their mind, so I won't engage in such.
Personally I don't think it is anyone's business to try to passive aggressively attempt to "educate" others one way or the other regarding health matters of any kind either. But then again, this whole thread also has people throwing out their opinions on vaccinations which kind of opens the door for that kind of that thing.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 11:32:37 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 11:32:37 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 22, 2021, 10:25:46 PM
Regarding Real ID, note that requirement doesn't mean you have to get a compliant driver's license, media hype notwithstanding. I just renewed my license online and I'm not getting the Real ID version. I have three other IDs that are compliant, so why bother spending all that time at the DMV? I might reconsider in 2029, the next time I have to renew my license, because I'll have to go in person that time and that changes the calculation as to whether it's worth the time.
Given that...
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2021, 06:50:40 PM
Real ID has the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety all jacked up. Even though in Oklahoma, you go to a private tag agent rather than standing in line at the state offices, they all still have to interface with the DPS computer system, and that system is slow as hell, to the point that doing a driver license renewal takes 30 minutes (just to complete and submit the paperwork, you get your physical card in the mail). The first tag agent I went to said they open up at 6am sharp, first come first served, get there at 6 and hope you manage to get a slot sometime that day to do your license. The second tag agent I went to had a sign up that just said "WE AREN'T DOING ANY MORE DRIVER LICENSE RENEWALS TODAY." I called the tag agent down in Goldsby [on February 26], figuring there would be less demand, but they had an appointment system set up and were booked all the way through March.
...it may be faster for me to actually get a US Passport if there was a need for me to have one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 12:41:34 AM
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 12:41:34 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PMIn the time you would take to write the article, you can get the shot.Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 08:30:16 PM
I think the state of Kentucky should make HB choose between getting the vaccine or staying a week in Louisville. :-D
I've done three nights there before. Three more would be a piece of cake.Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 08:20:27 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
So, we're all agreed that HB needs to get vaccinated, right?
I think it's important to distinguish between "needs to" and "should".
Ultimately, yes, I think he should, but I think he should come to that himself, not be told so by strangers on a roads forum.
Should I also get a Real ID? Do I need to get a Real ID?
Should I quit using my Valentine One? Do I need to quit using it?
Should I get my oil changed every 3-5,000 miles instead of letting the vehicle's internal system tell me when the oil needs changed? Do I need to get my oil changed every 3-5,000 miles instead of letting the vehicle's internal system tell me when the oil needs changed?
My own brother thinks I'm making a mistake in not getting the shot. And he is typically less inclined to buy into hype and pressure than I am. I figured he would be an even more staunch resister.
I have my reasons for choosing not to take the shot. They're quite valid reasons. I know a number of other people who have made the same decision for their own reasons.
I've been thinking about writing a long-form opinion piece on why I choose not to take the shot. If I do, I'll post the link here.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on April 23, 2021, 02:12:40 AM
Post by: jakeroot on April 23, 2021, 02:12:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
And he is typically less inclined to buy into hype and pressure than I am.
So this is all just hype and pressure?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
My former employer has made getting the annual bonus contingent on getting a shot. No shot before September 30 = no extra check in November.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 08:22:30 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 08:22:30 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 22, 2021, 10:54:58 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 22, 2021, 10:25:46 PM
Regarding Real ID, note that requirement doesn't mean you have to get a compliant driver's license, media hype notwithstanding.
Indeed, your passport (if you have one) is also a RealID compliant document.
That said, there are cases where you may have to get RealID for other reasons. For example, if you have an existing non-RealID compliant Connecticut drivers' license, you can renew it as such in perpetuity, upgrading to RealID is optional... however, if you are getting a new Connecticut drivers' license, either because you are becoming a newly licensed driver or because you are moving from out of state, you must provide all the necessary documentation to be issued a RealID compliant license. The state will not issue you a non-compliant one.
This is a fair comment and I probably should have ended the paragraph you quoted with "assuming your state gives you the option." Maryland, for example, doesn't give anyone a choice–it's Real ID or nothing if you want or need a driver's license. Virginia gives everyone the option. I have a passport card that is the same size as my driver's license, so that alone is a reason not to bother with the process.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on April 23, 2021, 08:25:12 AM
Post by: bandit957 on April 23, 2021, 08:25:12 AM
Real ID. Now there's something that needs to go.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 10:40:14 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 10:40:14 AM
For those in New York City, the city just announced that all city-run vaccine sites will now allow walk-ins age 16 and older, effective immediately.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 23, 2021, 10:53:44 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 23, 2021, 10:53:44 AM
According to the IHME model, India is gaining 3.8 million cases per day right now. That's insane.
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: formulanone on April 23, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
Post by: formulanone on April 23, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on April 23, 2021, 08:25:12 AM
Real ID. Now there's something that needs to go.
I tend to agree; not everyone has multiple types paperwork to "prove their existence". Literally, if you don't have a utility bill in your name and current address, or some other "important bill", or like three other types of identification, you're out of luck. I can see the need for it for individuals with name changes and the like, say...too many conflicting bits of information. But the process seems to be a tad unfair for those of lesser economic means.
The airlines have been pushing the requirement, literally since 2013 for 2016...and they're not going to allow you to fly without a passport or RealID until they count to 2021 (and right now, they're on "2020 and three-quarters" and seriously thinking of sending you straight to your room without dinner).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 23, 2021, 01:12:35 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 23, 2021, 01:12:35 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 23, 2021, 11:57:05 AMI tend to agree; not everyone has multiple types paperwork to "prove their existence". Literally, if you don't have a utility bill in your name and current address, or some other "important bill", or like three other types of identification, you're out of luck. I can see the need for it for individuals with name changes and the like, say...too many conflicting bits of information. But the process seems to be a tad unfair for those of lesser economic means.
I've never liked the equity implications of Real ID, but it does have its origins in the (bipartisan) 9/11 Commission report (the goal was to prevent people not legally present in the country, like the hijackers, gaining access to the air transport system), and the battle against it was lost during Bush's second term. Ever since, DHS has basically papered over the issues both of principle and of implementation by extending deadlines and waiting out recalcitrant states, under presidents of both major parties.
Although driver's licenses that are not Real ID-compliant are still available in Kansas, I opted to get one at the last renewal just to have it out of the way and to retain the ability to travel domestically without exposing my passport to loss (I typically don't carry it unless I am travelling to a state that has a land border with Canada or Mexico). I carefully double-checked the documentation requirements as listed by Kansas DOR (their materials at the time were both unclear and not internally consistent), and tried to go with at least one additional piece of paper to cover each specific requirement. At the Division of Vehicles office, they had someone checking papers at check-in to ensure you couldn't get in front of an agent unless you actually had what you needed, and that person was really unhappy because I showed up with a US passport instead of a birth certificate (citizenship proof) and a 1099 with untitivated SSN instead of Social Security card (proof of SSN; my Social Security card had gone missing).
I know from my own experiences with genealogical research that key documents often go missing even if you know you would have had to obtain them at some point and are sure you would never knowingly have thrown them out. For example, we have death certificates for my mother (2016) and both grandmothers (1997, 2011), but I have yet to find one for my maternal grandfather (1988; one would presumably have had to be obtained to probate his will) and my paternal grandfather's mother (1982; I'm not sure my grandmother obtained one since I think she did a distribution of assets several years before she went into a nursing home). I have seen my paternal grandparents' marriage license (1935), but it has also gone missing.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 01:49:14 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 01:49:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2021, 11:15:52 PM
Personally I don't think it is anyone's business to try to passive aggressively attempt to "educate" others one way or the other regarding health matters of any kind either.
Thanks. Yeah, calling someone stupid is bullying him, so we'll just imply he's stupid by saying he needs to be educated. That'll work.
Quote from: jakeroot on April 23, 2021, 02:12:40 AMQuote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
And he is typically less inclined to buy into hype and pressure than I am.
So this is all just hype and pressure?
The direness of the pandemic does not mean there's no hype or pressure. They're not mutually exclusive.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
My former employer has made getting the annual bonus contingent on getting a shot. No shot before September 30 = no extra check in November.
I have a big problem with this. The only reason your employer can even know that you've had the vaccine is because there's an official pandemic, which suspends certain aspects of HIPAA policies. The step from knowing something in order to ensure the health of the other employees to using that information in determination of who gets paid how much–that's a step far too big to be comfortable with. Your employer should not be allowed to use your personal medical information in order to decide how much you get paid.
Quote from: formulanone on April 23, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
I tend to agree; not everyone has multiple types paperwork to "prove their existence". Literally, if you don't have a utility bill in your name and current address, or some other "important bill", or like three other types of identification, you're out of luck.
Proving your address is a tricky requirement for other things, too. I used to share an apartment with two other guys, for example, and the apartment manager paid the utility bills. Before that, I had rented a bedroom in a guy's house for cash, with no lease or anything. Heck, if you're married, what do you do if all the bills are in your spouse's name? I guess keeping a copy of your lease handy is getting more and more important.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 02:01:03 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 02:01:03 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 23, 2021, 01:12:35 PM
....
Although driver's licenses that are not Real ID-compliant are still available in Kansas, I opted to get one at the last renewal just to have it out of the way and to retain the ability to travel domestically without exposing my passport to loss ....
That issue is why I opted to get the passport card, in addition to the book, the last time I renewed, and I'll do the same again next time. Yes, it means an extra fee, but the fee is only $30 and it's valid for 10 years, so I viewed it as $3 a year. If I give up one beer per year, I've paid for the card. I keep it in an inner pocket in my wallet. Aside from resolving the Real ID issue, another benefit in my mind is that it eliminates the concern of having to bring the passport book on a trip to a border state. (A totally unrelated benefit is the ability to use it as voter ID in order to annoy the overly-officious old ladies who volunteer at the polls and who act like anything other than a driver's license is an imposition on them.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:10:12 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:10:12 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 02:01:03 PM
(A totally unrelated benefit is the ability to use it as voter ID in order to annoy the overly-officious old ladies who volunteer at the polls and who act like anything other than a driver's license is an imposition on them.)
Isn't a passport book even better in that regard? (Actually, I think that's what I used as ID when I voted last year.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:29:17 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:29:17 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
So, we're all agreed that HB needs to get vaccinated, right?
Are we all agreed that HB shouldn't make medical decisions based on an internet forum?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 23, 2021, 02:30:34 PM
Post by: TravelingBethelite on April 23, 2021, 02:30:34 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on April 22, 2021, 09:40:34 PM
My school had a vaccination clinic that allowed hundreds of students at my high school to receive their first dose of Pfizer, myself included.
That strikes me as oddly progressive for Missouri.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 23, 2021, 08:25:12 AM
Real ID. Now there's something that needs to go.
...why?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
^^^
Unnecessary security theater.
Unnecessary security theater.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 23, 2021, 03:43:32 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 23, 2021, 03:43:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
^^^
Unnecessary security theater.
I think Real ID is more important than me taking my shoes off, me taking my toothpaste out of my luggage, or some random weirdo needing to see my junk in order to let me fly. No one seems (in general) as concerned with those.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 03:46:55 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 03:43:32 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
^^^
Unnecessary security theater.
I think Real ID is more important than me taking my shoes off, me taking my toothpaste out of my luggage, or some random weirdo needing to see my junk in order to let me fly. No one seems (in general) as concerned with those.
Chris
Let me rephrase, they are all security theater items. The frequency by which TSA screeners fail when they are evaluated is evidence enough that they couldn't stop someone who is committed causing harm abroad an airplane.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 03:47:20 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 03:47:20 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 10:40:14 AMAll we need to do is get HB to NYC, now.
For those in New York City, the city just announced that all city-run vaccine sites will now allow walk-ins age 16 and older, effective immediately.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 03:50:16 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 01:49:14 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
My former employer has made getting the annual bonus contingent on getting a shot. No shot before September 30 = no extra check in November.
I have a big problem with this. The only reason your employer can even know that you've had the vaccine is because there's an official pandemic, which suspends certain aspects of HIPAA policies. The step from knowing something in order to ensure the health of the other employees to using that information in determination of who gets paid how much–that's a step far too big to be comfortable with. Your employer should not be allowed to use your personal medical information in order to decide how much you get paid.
Their response to you would, no doubt, be "We're a sovereign nation," which is their response to everything when someone says they legally can't or shouldn't do something (i.e. "Oh yeah? Take us to court, then, and see what happens after we get it remanded to our tribal court system").
That bonus check (called the "Individual Development Plan" or IDP) has always already required you to undergo a biometric screening (blood is drawn and analyzed for cholesterol levels, waistline measured, heart rate measured after undergoing 5 min of cardio). This was done for free by the tribal health system, though you could opt to have your general practitioner do it for you. I don't think the exact numbers were shared with the employer, but it had to be done to get the check (I am guessing doing so garnered the tribe a discount on the group health insurance plan). Additionally, you had to sit through a bunch of training classes that were of questionable relevance to the actual job duties in a casino (fortunately it gradually went mostly online, such that one could have them going in the background while working, effectively allowing you to double dip). So it wasn't really much of a bonus at all, since you had to do extra work to get it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 23, 2021, 03:51:50 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 23, 2021, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on April 23, 2021, 02:30:34 PMQuote from: bandit957 on April 23, 2021, 08:25:12 AMReal ID. Now there's something that needs to go.
...why?
It brings us closer to a situation where a person can't function in society (including exercising basic rights such as voting) because he or she lacks a piece of paper and a way of getting that paper. For example, when Kansas was trying to enforce a state law requiring people to show documentary proof of citizenship to register to vote, it was discovered that some people born as late as the 1920's were never issued birth certificates. There have also been instances of people with birth certificates issued in the 1970's being refused US passports because they were born at home rather than at a hospital (the State Department hates accepting birth certificates for home births because there is no independent corroboration).
Plus, attempts to create leakproof identity verification systems can often generate a false sense of security. Real ID, if it had existed back in 2001, would have given the 9/11 hijackers another hurdle to cross if it hadn't prevented the attack altogether, but it doesn't protect against insider threats, such as people born in the US choosing to carry out a 9/11-style plot. There is also a fundamental problem in that birth certificates, which are still foundational identity documents, have no biometric complement and are easy to forge.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 03:54:55 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 03:54:55 PM
And of course, the specific requirements of Real ID can lead to fun Catch-22 requirements like Oklahoma requiring a valid, unexpired ID to request a birth certificate, and you can't renew a license without a birth certificate. If they were like Maryland and didn't offer a non-Real ID-compliant license option, or you were someone born in Oklahoma and trying to get licensing in Maryland, I'm not sure how you'd even resolve that.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on April 23, 2021, 04:27:23 PM
Post by: jakeroot on April 23, 2021, 04:27:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 01:49:14 PMQuote from: jakeroot on April 23, 2021, 02:12:40 AM
So this is all just hype and pressure?
The direness of the pandemic does not mean there's no hype or pressure. They're not mutually exclusive.
I'll go back to the original quote:
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
My own brother thinks I'm making a mistake in not getting the shot. And he is typically less inclined to buy into hype and pressure than I am. I figured he would be an even more staunch resister.
My interpretation of his statement is that he views the inclination to get the COVID-19 vaccine as-soon-as-possible as someone giving into hype and pressure.
There may be some truth to it: people getting the vaccine who normally avoid things like the flu shot may be giving into some societal pressure. Especially if their MO is generally to avoid vaccines (like flu or tetanus). But I'm not convinced the COVID-19 vaccine is necessarily akin to other non-child vaccines just yet. There seems to be a lot of potential differences at this point in time. And importantly, high vaccination rates now could mean substantially reduced chance of mutation later on.
If he wants to label vaccination programs as "hype and pressure", that's fine. But I feel like it's not completely fair.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:34:27 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:34:27 PM
Ah, I see what you meant now. I just interpreted HB as saying that he considers his brother's opinion to be fairly static, not swayed by the winds of social media.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 23, 2021, 05:23:58 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 23, 2021, 05:23:58 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 12:41:34 AMIn the time you would take to write the article, you can get the shot.
The minimum amount of time I would have to invest in getting a shot, assuming no line at the local Walgreen's, is 50 minutes.
15 minutes travel time
5 minutes filling out paperwork and getting the shot
15 minutes observation time
15 minutes travel time back home
I can crank out a lengthy column in about half that time.
But that assumes I want to get the shot. I don't.
Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 03:47:20 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 10:40:14 AMAll we need to do is get HB to NYC, now.
For those in New York City, the city just announced that all city-run vaccine sites will now allow walk-ins age 16 and older, effective immediately.
No need for me to go to NYC. The last time I was in the Jackson Walmart, an announcement was made over the speaker that they had shots available in the pharmacy at that time if anyone wanted one. The time before that, as I entered the store, someone was handing out brochures at the front door and asking, "Are you interested in having a covid shot today?"
Uh, no thanks.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 03:50:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 01:49:14 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
My former employer has made getting the annual bonus contingent on getting a shot. No shot before September 30 = no extra check in November.
I have a big problem with this. The only reason your employer can even know that you've had the vaccine is because there's an official pandemic, which suspends certain aspects of HIPAA policies. The step from knowing something in order to ensure the health of the other employees to using that information in determination of who gets paid how much–that's a step far too big to be comfortable with. Your employer should not be allowed to use your personal medical information in order to decide how much you get paid.
Their response to you would, no doubt, be "We're a sovereign nation," which is their response to everything when someone says they legally can't or shouldn't do something (i.e. "Oh yeah? Take us to court, then, and see what happens after we get it remanded to our tribal court system").
That bonus check (called the "Individual Development Plan" or IDP) has always already required you to undergo a biometric screening (blood is drawn and analyzed for cholesterol levels, waistline measured, heart rate measured after undergoing 5 min of cardio). This was done for free by the tribal health system, though you could opt to have your general practitioner do it for you. I don't think the exact numbers were shared with the employer, but it had to be done to get the check (I am guessing doing so garnered the tribe a discount on the group health insurance plan). Additionally, you had to sit through a bunch of training classes that were of questionable relevance to the actual job duties in a casino (fortunately it gradually went mostly online, such that one could have them going in the background while working, effectively allowing you to double dip). So it wasn't really much of a bonus at all, since you had to do extra work to get it.
Bonus checks at my employer aren't depending on health screenings, since we don't have bonus checks, but the availability of certain health insurance plans are dependent on it. Four plans are offered; to have access to two of them you have to agree to have a screening or complete an online assessment by a certain date, or those options are unavailable to you for the next year's plan. Premiums are different for smokers and non-smokers, however.
There has been concern about employers being able to require a covid shot, which may have been addressed by legislation our General Assembly passed this year (Senate Bill 8). My understanding is that of now, they can't require it because the shots are in a "Clearview approval" status, but could be made mandatory when the emergency authorization becomes permanent approval. There are lawyers salivating at the chance to file suit if employers require the shots.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 05:30:56 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 05:30:56 PM
QuoteThere has been concern about employers being able to require a covid shot, which may have been addressed by legislation our General Assembly passed this year (Senate Bill 8). My understanding is that of now, they can't require it because the shots are in a "Clearview approval" status, but could be made mandatory when the emergency authorization becomes permanent approval. There are lawyers salivating at the chance to file suit if employers require the shots.
As I mentioned, though, my former employer (the Chickasaw Nation) has its own court system, so if they can get the case remanded to tribal court (which is likely to be successful, as you have to sign a consent to jurisdiction to be employed there), they can put you through no end of legal shenanigans. First off, you have to have a lawyer who is licensed to practice law in Chickasaw court...and then of course the court's expenses are paid for by the revenue of the very business you'd be suing, so that doesn't really bode well for your case.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 06:25:10 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 23, 2021, 05:23:58 PMDon't you worry, you stubborn old mule. Maybe we'll get you a jab at a road meet...right when you least expect it.Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 12:41:34 AMIn the time you would take to write the article, you can get the shot.
The minimum amount of time I would have to invest in getting a shot, assuming no line at the local Walgreen's, is 50 minutes.
15 minutes travel time
5 minutes filling out paperwork and getting the shot
15 minutes observation time
15 minutes travel time back home
I can crank out a lengthy column in about half that time.
But that assumes I want to get the shot. I don't.Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 03:47:20 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 23, 2021, 10:40:14 AMAll we need to do is get HB to NYC, now.
For those in New York City, the city just announced that all city-run vaccine sites will now allow walk-ins age 16 and older, effective immediately.
No need for me to go to NYC. The last time I was in the Jackson Walmart, an announcement was made over the speaker that they had shots available in the pharmacy at that time if anyone wanted one. The time before that, as I entered the store, someone was handing out brochures at the front door and asking, "Are you interested in having a covid shot today?"
Uh, no thanks.Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 03:50:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 01:49:14 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
My former employer has made getting the annual bonus contingent on getting a shot. No shot before September 30 = no extra check in November.
I have a big problem with this. The only reason your employer can even know that you've had the vaccine is because there's an official pandemic, which suspends certain aspects of HIPAA policies. The step from knowing something in order to ensure the health of the other employees to using that information in determination of who gets paid how much–that's a step far too big to be comfortable with. Your employer should not be allowed to use your personal medical information in order to decide how much you get paid.
Their response to you would, no doubt, be "We're a sovereign nation," which is their response to everything when someone says they legally can't or shouldn't do something (i.e. "Oh yeah? Take us to court, then, and see what happens after we get it remanded to our tribal court system").
That bonus check (called the "Individual Development Plan" or IDP) has always already required you to undergo a biometric screening (blood is drawn and analyzed for cholesterol levels, waistline measured, heart rate measured after undergoing 5 min of cardio). This was done for free by the tribal health system, though you could opt to have your general practitioner do it for you. I don't think the exact numbers were shared with the employer, but it had to be done to get the check (I am guessing doing so garnered the tribe a discount on the group health insurance plan). Additionally, you had to sit through a bunch of training classes that were of questionable relevance to the actual job duties in a casino (fortunately it gradually went mostly online, such that one could have them going in the background while working, effectively allowing you to double dip). So it wasn't really much of a bonus at all, since you had to do extra work to get it.
Bonus checks at my employer aren't depending on health screenings, since we don't have bonus checks, but the availability of certain health insurance plans are dependent on it. Four plans are offered; to have access to two of them you have to agree to have a screening or complete an online assessment by a certain date, or those options are unavailable to you for the next year's plan. Premiums are different for smokers and non-smokers, however.
There has been concern about employers being able to require a covid shot, which may have been addressed by legislation our General Assembly passed this year (Senate Bill 8). My understanding is that of now, they can't require it because the shots are in a "Clearview approval" status, but could be made mandatory when the emergency authorization becomes permanent approval. There are lawyers salivating at the chance to file suit if employers require the shots.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on April 23, 2021, 08:30:12 PM
Post by: kkt on April 23, 2021, 08:30:12 PM
I got my first shot of Pfizer yesterday. Sore arm, feeling better now. I've never been happier to have a sore arm.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 23, 2021, 08:30:12 PMThe best vaccine in the world people claim.
I got my first shot of Pfizer yesterday. Sore arm, feeling better now. I've never been happier to have a sore arm.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on April 23, 2021, 08:38:58 PM
Post by: kkt on April 23, 2021, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:31:47 PMQuote from: kkt on April 23, 2021, 08:30:12 PMThe best vaccine in the world people claim.
I got my first shot of Pfizer yesterday. Sore arm, feeling better now. I've never been happier to have a sore arm.
I dunno. I haven't read any way that it's better than Moderna, but it requires dry ice temperature freezers to store.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:39:31 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:39:31 PM
Speaking of vaccine mixing, there seemingly was no ill effects to me having one shot Pfizer and one shot Moderna. It's been over a week now and I didn't really make that too overt a couple pages back on how things went down with the mixed vaccines.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 23, 2021, 08:44:52 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 23, 2021, 08:44:52 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:39:31 PM
Speaking of vaccine mixing, there seemingly was no ill effects to me having one shot Pfizer and one shot Moderna. It's been over a week now and I didn't really make that too overt a couple pages back on how things went down with the mixed vaccines.
I don't think there was ever any risk of danger mixing the vaccines. The issue is that it might not be as effective.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on April 23, 2021, 08:46:59 PM
Post by: Jim on April 23, 2021, 08:46:59 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 23, 2021, 08:44:52 PM
I don't think there was ever any risk of danger mixing the vaccines. The issue is that it might not be as effective.
I suppose since mixing like that was not part of testing, the combination could less, similarly, or even more effective.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:47:44 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:47:44 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 23, 2021, 08:44:52 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:39:31 PM
Speaking of vaccine mixing, there seemingly was no ill effects to me having one shot Pfizer and one shot Moderna. It's been over a week now and I didn't really make that too overt a couple pages back on how things went down with the mixed vaccines.
I don't think there was ever any risk of danger mixing the vaccines. The issue is that it might not be as effective.
That's my understanding. Apparently my vaccination site (a military base) had Pfizer for the first rounds of shots but ended up getting Moderna for the second. They decided to roll with it given there doesn't appear to be any apparent harm. That falls in line with what the CDC, but they also note it hasn't been tested.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:47:49 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:47:49 PM
Messenger RNA ones seem okay. But other types seem more risky.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PMNo, she will get whatever they give her. She's only 17 so she will only get the Pfizer one.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:51:36 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:51:36 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PMNo, she will get whatever they give her. She's only 17 so she will only get the Pfizer one.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
I find it highly amusing how you just lord over your sister in your posts like what she wants literally is worthless. I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is intentional or not.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:59:31 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:59:31 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:51:36 PMIntentional to get a vaccine?Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PMNo, she will get whatever they give her. She's only 17 so she will only get the Pfizer one.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
I find it highly amusing how you just lord over your sister in your posts like what she wants literally is worthless. I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is intentional or not.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:07:20 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:07:20 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:59:31 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:51:36 PMIntentional to get a vaccine?Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PMNo, she will get whatever they give her. She's only 17 so she will only get the Pfizer one.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
I find it highly amusing how you just lord over your sister in your posts like what she wants literally is worthless. I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is intentional or not.
No, the fact that you (and maybe your mother?) place literally no value in her opinion. I'm not saying that isn't the right thing to do, she is after all a child who is being made to get a vaccine by a parent. I just wonder if you can see how statements such as yours (and from others) might embolden certain individuals that aren't inclined to get vaccinated. The authoritarian approach to socially "shaming others" didn't seem to play very well during every step of the way with most COVID restrictions either.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:15:21 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:07:20 PMTo return to basic activities instead of working online or from home.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:59:31 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:51:36 PMIntentional to get a vaccine?Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PMNo, she will get whatever they give her. She's only 17 so she will only get the Pfizer one.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
I find it highly amusing how you just lord over your sister in your posts like what she wants literally is worthless. I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is intentional or not.
No, the fact that you (and maybe your mother?) place literally no value in her opinion. I'm not saying that isn't the right thing to do, she is after all a child who is being made to get a vaccine by a parent. I just wonder if you can see how statements such as yours (and from others) might embolden certain individuals that aren't inclined to get vaccinated. The authoritarian approach to socially "shaming others" didn't seem to play very well during every step of the way with most COVID restrictions either.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:22:59 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:22:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:15:21 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:07:20 PMTo return to basic activities instead of working online or from home.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:59:31 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:51:36 PMIntentional to get a vaccine?Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PMNo, she will get whatever they give her. She's only 17 so she will only get the Pfizer one.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
I find it highly amusing how you just lord over your sister in your posts like what she wants literally is worthless. I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is intentional or not.
No, the fact that you (and maybe your mother?) place literally no value in her opinion. I'm not saying that isn't the right thing to do, she is after all a child who is being made to get a vaccine by a parent. I just wonder if you can see how statements such as yours (and from others) might embolden certain individuals that aren't inclined to get vaccinated. The authoritarian approach to socially "shaming others" didn't seem to play very well during every step of the way with most COVID restrictions either.
So your opinion is that people who don't want to be vaccinated should be forcibly compelled to do so for the "greater good?" That may sound benign to you, but consider how that sounds to others who don't agree.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:25:12 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:22:59 PMYes.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:15:21 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:07:20 PMTo return to basic activities instead of working online or from home.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:59:31 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:51:36 PMIntentional to get a vaccine?Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PMNo, she will get whatever they give her. She's only 17 so she will only get the Pfizer one.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
I find it highly amusing how you just lord over your sister in your posts like what she wants literally is worthless. I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is intentional or not.
No, the fact that you (and maybe your mother?) place literally no value in her opinion. I'm not saying that isn't the right thing to do, she is after all a child who is being made to get a vaccine by a parent. I just wonder if you can see how statements such as yours (and from others) might embolden certain individuals that aren't inclined to get vaccinated. The authoritarian approach to socially "shaming others" didn't seem to play very well during every step of the way with most COVID restrictions either.
So your opinion is that people who don't want to be vaccinated should be forcibly compelled to do so for the "greater good?" That may sound benign to you, but consider how that sounds to others who don't agree.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:44:35 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:44:35 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:25:12 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:22:59 PMYes.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:15:21 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 09:07:20 PMTo return to basic activities instead of working online or from home.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:59:31 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:51:36 PMIntentional to get a vaccine?Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:49:55 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:32:25 PMNo, she will get whatever they give her. She's only 17 so she will only get the Pfizer one.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 08:24:34 PMAll. My sister will get it cause it's to prevent COVID-19 (and the variants) from spreading!Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 08:21:41 PM
we need more vaccinations. Many more. My mother is forcing to get my sister to TAKE one.
But not two? Or is this the recently reevaluated J&J vaccine? How you plan to capture your sister if she resists?
So she is getting all the vaccines? Is this some sort of mad science experiment?
I find it highly amusing how you just lord over your sister in your posts like what she wants literally is worthless. I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is intentional or not.
No, the fact that you (and maybe your mother?) place literally no value in her opinion. I'm not saying that isn't the right thing to do, she is after all a child who is being made to get a vaccine by a parent. I just wonder if you can see how statements such as yours (and from others) might embolden certain individuals that aren't inclined to get vaccinated. The authoritarian approach to socially "shaming others" didn't seem to play very well during every step of the way with most COVID restrictions either.
So your opinion is that people who don't want to be vaccinated should be forcibly compelled to do so for the "greater good?" That may sound benign to you, but consider how that sounds to others who don't agree.
Sounds like you got a lot to learn about how life really works then, but my point was made.
Personally I'm not a fan of trying to compel people to do anything for the so called "greater good." In the context of vaccinations we all probably know someone who just plain wasn't going to get one and there was anything that was going to change their mind. So instead of wasting all that effort end trying to persuade those individuals, why not do what you think is right for yourself?
Hell, my own reasoning to get a vaccination aren't exactly "selfless." I don't really see a true "need" from a health perspective to have gotten a vaccination for myself. Yes, vaccinations will decrease the likelihood of infections spreading as a global/communal thing. All the same I've been going to work everyday (being exposed to the public) since the lockdowns in California began last year and my wife actually contracted COVID last summer. That being the case the odds were that I was going to be fine even without a vaccination. I do see it as a potential barrier to getting back to doing things I like doing and that was reason enough for me to get the so called "pandemic passport."
My wife on the other hand, she doesn't want to get a vaccine right now and has compelling reasons not to. She had COVID but was symptom free the entire time, so her view on the danger is molded by that experience. She also wanted to see what if any effects vaccines would have on people given they didn't go through the normal testing procedures. The concept of a pandemic passport doesn't bother her either and she would rather wait for easier availability.
Do I think she is making a mistake?...absolutely. I feel like at some point she will run into that pandemic passport issue and it will prevent her from doing something she wants to do. I respect her decision enough that I don't feel the need to lord my opinion over her, even though I disagree. I don't think there is anything I can do to change her mind, she has the facts by which to draw a conclusion for herself.
So maybe you want to look at your stance and put yourself in the position of someone who doesn't agree with you. I really think you are wasting your time by being as forceful as you are. Your sister might not have a say, but most adults do and there probably isn't anything you can do to change their minds.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
If you don't get the vaccine that's fine, but don't walk around unmasked in public spreading covid- continue to mask and distance preventing covid from spreading and mutating. So you don't have to get it if you want to continue living the way you did this past year.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 23, 2021, 10:41:32 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 23, 2021, 10:41:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
If you don't get the vaccine that's fine, but don't walk around unmasked in public spreading covid- continue to mask and distance preventing covid from spreading and mutating. So you don't have to get it if you want to continue living the way you did this past year.
I suspect for people like HB that live in very rural areas, 2020 wasn't that different than 2019 except for masks (if even that) and less traveling (if even that).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on April 23, 2021, 11:24:38 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on April 23, 2021, 11:24:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 23, 2021, 09:25:12 PM/me ducks and runs
Yes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
If you don't get the vaccine that's fine, but don't walk around unmasked in public spreading covid- continue to mask and distance preventing covid from spreading and mutating. So you don't have to get it if you want to continue living the way you did this past year.
To some that isn't something they just plain aren't ever going to do, my brother is one of those people. He decided after two states ordered (Arizona and Idaho) his franchise gyms shuttered that COVID was largely nonsense. He doesn't deny COVID exists, but he also doesn't believe that it is a big deal either (his exact description is a bad flu).
Some of the highlights stuff my Brother has done this past year:
- He reopened his gyms in defiance of Arizona of Idaho State orders. He did (I don't know if he still does) have mask and social distancing guidelines in place. He was fined a couple times but saw it as the lesser evil given being shuttered was way more costly by his estimates (I don't know enough about his financials to determine the validity to that statement).
- He won't wear a mask under any circumstance and won't let his kids either. He has taken a hard line stance that mask wearing will negatively affect his breathing as well as and theirs. He regularly gets kicked out businesses and I'm not sure how he has gotten away with flying as much as he has.
- He pulled his daughters out of school given they had a mask requirement and hired an at-home instructor.
- My sister-in-law contracted COVID this past year but he just saw it as affirmation that he was right given she was relatively symptom free and nobody else in the house showed symptoms. My sister-in-law briefly quarantined but he and my nieces didn't.
There is a whole lot I don't agree with that my brother does. For the most part I believe he is making trouble for himself which could potentially have legal ramifications, he isn't exactly a stranger to that kind of thing (make of that what you will, you're probably right). I've told him that he isn't being smart but he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice, so I left it at that. I haven't even bothered to ask him what he thinks about vaccinations because the answer is rhetorical.
I do agree with my brother that his gym franchise was at risk of going under due to COVID. I also do agree fitness and exercise are far more essential than a lot of state health departments gave it credit for. Aside from that, I mean what else can I say? He's a perfect example of someone who is completely hardened in his line of thinking and will not be convinced otherwise under any circumstance...there is no point in me or anyone trying. I haven't seen him or my nieces in about two years at this point, some of that was due to COVID restrictions.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: ozarkman417 on April 23, 2021, 11:31:50 PM
Post by: ozarkman417 on April 23, 2021, 11:31:50 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 23, 2021, 10:41:32 PMThis appeared to be true in some places in rural Missouri I visited last year. At a restaurant Ozark County, MO near the Bryant Creek, there were absolutely no covid precautions in place. Why do I think this is the case? There are so few people in Ozark County, less than 10k people. That restaurant, being in the middle of nowhere, rarely has more than a couple of sets of customers at a time, so is socially distanced anyway.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
If you don't get the vaccine that's fine, but don't walk around unmasked in public spreading covid- continue to mask and distance preventing covid from spreading and mutating. So you don't have to get it if you want to continue living the way you did this past year.
I suspect for people like HB that live in very rural areas, 2020 wasn't that different than 2019 except for masks (if even that) and less traveling (if even that).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 11:39:27 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 11:39:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PMYour brother sounds like a bit of an asshole (sorry).Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
If you don't get the vaccine that's fine, but don't walk around unmasked in public spreading covid- continue to mask and distance preventing covid from spreading and mutating. So you don't have to get it if you want to continue living the way you did this past year.
To some that isn't something they just plain aren't ever going to do, my brother is one of those people. He decided after two states ordered (Arizona and Idaho) his franchise gyms shuttered that COVID was largely nonsense. He doesn't deny COVID exists, but he also doesn't believe that it is a big deal either (his exact description is a bad flu).
Some of the highlights stuff my Brother has done this past year:
- He reopened his gyms in defiance of Arizona of Idaho State orders. He did (I don't know if he still does) have mask and social distancing guidelines in place. He was fined a couple times but saw it as the lesser evil given being shuttered was way more costly by his estimates (I don't know enough about his financials to determine the validity to that statement).
- He won't wear a mask under any circumstance and won't let his kids either. He has taken a hard line stance that mask wearing will negatively affect his breathing as well as and theirs. He regularly gets kicked out businesses and I'm not sure how he has gotten away with flying as much as he has.
- He pulled his daughters out of school given they had a mask requirement and hired an at-home instructor.
- My sister-in-law contracted COVID this past year but he just saw it as affirmation that he was right given she was relatively symptom free and nobody else in the house showed symptoms. My sister-in-law briefly quarantined but he and my nieces didn't.
There is a whole lot I don't agree with that my brother does. For the most part I believe he is making trouble for himself which could potentially have legal ramifications, he isn't exactly a stranger to that kind of thing (make of that what you will, you're probably right). I've told him that he isn't being smart but he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice, so I left it at that. I haven't even bothered to ask him what he thinks about vaccinations because the answer is rhetorical.
I do agree with my brother that his gym franchise was at risk of going under due to COVID. I also do agree fitness and exercise are far more essential than a lot of state health departments gave it credit for. Aside from that, I mean what else can I say? He's a perfect example of someone who is completely hardened in his line of thinking and will not be convinced otherwise under any circumstance...there is no point in me or anyone trying. I haven't seen him or my nieces in about two years at this point, some of that was due to COVID restrictions.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 11:48:31 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2021, 11:48:31 PM
Those that do not want the vaccine make the case for mandated vaccinations.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2021, 12:00:55 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2021, 12:00:55 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 11:39:27 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PMYour brother sounds like a bit of an asshole (sorry).Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
If you don't get the vaccine that's fine, but don't walk around unmasked in public spreading covid- continue to mask and distance preventing covid from spreading and mutating. So you don't have to get it if you want to continue living the way you did this past year.
To some that isn't something they just plain aren't ever going to do, my brother is one of those people. He decided after two states ordered (Arizona and Idaho) his franchise gyms shuttered that COVID was largely nonsense. He doesn't deny COVID exists, but he also doesn't believe that it is a big deal either (his exact description is a bad flu).
Some of the highlights stuff my Brother has done this past year:
- He reopened his gyms in defiance of Arizona of Idaho State orders. He did (I don't know if he still does) have mask and social distancing guidelines in place. He was fined a couple times but saw it as the lesser evil given being shuttered was way more costly by his estimates (I don't know enough about his financials to determine the validity to that statement).
- He won't wear a mask under any circumstance and won't let his kids either. He has taken a hard line stance that mask wearing will negatively affect his breathing as well as and theirs. He regularly gets kicked out businesses and I'm not sure how he has gotten away with flying as much as he has.
- He pulled his daughters out of school given they had a mask requirement and hired an at-home instructor.
- My sister-in-law contracted COVID this past year but he just saw it as affirmation that he was right given she was relatively symptom free and nobody else in the house showed symptoms. My sister-in-law briefly quarantined but he and my nieces didn't.
There is a whole lot I don't agree with that my brother does. For the most part I believe he is making trouble for himself which could potentially have legal ramifications, he isn't exactly a stranger to that kind of thing (make of that what you will, you're probably right). I've told him that he isn't being smart but he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice, so I left it at that. I haven't even bothered to ask him what he thinks about vaccinations because the answer is rhetorical.
I do agree with my brother that his gym franchise was at risk of going under due to COVID. I also do agree fitness and exercise are far more essential than a lot of state health departments gave it credit for. Aside from that, I mean what else can I say? He's a perfect example of someone who is completely hardened in his line of thinking and will not be convinced otherwise under any circumstance...there is no point in me or anyone trying. I haven't seen him or my nieces in about two years at this point, some of that was due to COVID restrictions.
I never said he wasn't. The point I'm trying to make is that you all are wasting your time and breath trying to convince people like him to see things your way. People like that don't care how many pleads or mandates you throw at them.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:03:10 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2021, 12:00:55 AMWell he's a lost cause. We can convince vaccine-hesitant people to get it, however. (Like your wife) Also, he really should wear his mask inside businesses because that does directly affect other people.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 11:39:27 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PMYour brother sounds like a bit of an asshole (sorry).Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
If you don't get the vaccine that's fine, but don't walk around unmasked in public spreading covid- continue to mask and distance preventing covid from spreading and mutating. So you don't have to get it if you want to continue living the way you did this past year.
To some that isn't something they just plain aren't ever going to do, my brother is one of those people. He decided after two states ordered (Arizona and Idaho) his franchise gyms shuttered that COVID was largely nonsense. He doesn't deny COVID exists, but he also doesn't believe that it is a big deal either (his exact description is a bad flu).
Some of the highlights stuff my Brother has done this past year:
- He reopened his gyms in defiance of Arizona of Idaho State orders. He did (I don't know if he still does) have mask and social distancing guidelines in place. He was fined a couple times but saw it as the lesser evil given being shuttered was way more costly by his estimates (I don't know enough about his financials to determine the validity to that statement).
- He won't wear a mask under any circumstance and won't let his kids either. He has taken a hard line stance that mask wearing will negatively affect his breathing as well as and theirs. He regularly gets kicked out businesses and I'm not sure how he has gotten away with flying as much as he has.
- He pulled his daughters out of school given they had a mask requirement and hired an at-home instructor.
- My sister-in-law contracted COVID this past year but he just saw it as affirmation that he was right given she was relatively symptom free and nobody else in the house showed symptoms. My sister-in-law briefly quarantined but he and my nieces didn't.
There is a whole lot I don't agree with that my brother does. For the most part I believe he is making trouble for himself which could potentially have legal ramifications, he isn't exactly a stranger to that kind of thing (make of that what you will, you're probably right). I've told him that he isn't being smart but he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice, so I left it at that. I haven't even bothered to ask him what he thinks about vaccinations because the answer is rhetorical.
I do agree with my brother that his gym franchise was at risk of going under due to COVID. I also do agree fitness and exercise are far more essential than a lot of state health departments gave it credit for. Aside from that, I mean what else can I say? He's a perfect example of someone who is completely hardened in his line of thinking and will not be convinced otherwise under any circumstance...there is no point in me or anyone trying. I haven't seen him or my nieces in about two years at this point, some of that was due to COVID restrictions.
I never said he wasn't. The point I'm trying to make is that you all are wasting your time and breath trying to convince people like him to see things your way. People like that don't care how many pleads or mandates you throw at them.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2021, 12:06:17 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2021, 12:06:17 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:03:10 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2021, 12:00:55 AMWell he's a lost cause. We can convince vaccine-hesitant people to get it, however. (Like your wife) Also, he really should wear his mask inside businesses because that does directly affect other people.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 11:39:27 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PMYour brother sounds like a bit of an asshole (sorry).Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
If you don't get the vaccine that's fine, but don't walk around unmasked in public spreading covid- continue to mask and distance preventing covid from spreading and mutating. So you don't have to get it if you want to continue living the way you did this past year.
To some that isn't something they just plain aren't ever going to do, my brother is one of those people. He decided after two states ordered (Arizona and Idaho) his franchise gyms shuttered that COVID was largely nonsense. He doesn't deny COVID exists, but he also doesn't believe that it is a big deal either (his exact description is a bad flu).
Some of the highlights stuff my Brother has done this past year:
- He reopened his gyms in defiance of Arizona of Idaho State orders. He did (I don't know if he still does) have mask and social distancing guidelines in place. He was fined a couple times but saw it as the lesser evil given being shuttered was way more costly by his estimates (I don't know enough about his financials to determine the validity to that statement).
- He won't wear a mask under any circumstance and won't let his kids either. He has taken a hard line stance that mask wearing will negatively affect his breathing as well as and theirs. He regularly gets kicked out businesses and I'm not sure how he has gotten away with flying as much as he has.
- He pulled his daughters out of school given they had a mask requirement and hired an at-home instructor.
- My sister-in-law contracted COVID this past year but he just saw it as affirmation that he was right given she was relatively symptom free and nobody else in the house showed symptoms. My sister-in-law briefly quarantined but he and my nieces didn't.
There is a whole lot I don't agree with that my brother does. For the most part I believe he is making trouble for himself which could potentially have legal ramifications, he isn't exactly a stranger to that kind of thing (make of that what you will, you're probably right). I've told him that he isn't being smart but he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice, so I left it at that. I haven't even bothered to ask him what he thinks about vaccinations because the answer is rhetorical.
I do agree with my brother that his gym franchise was at risk of going under due to COVID. I also do agree fitness and exercise are far more essential than a lot of state health departments gave it credit for. Aside from that, I mean what else can I say? He's a perfect example of someone who is completely hardened in his line of thinking and will not be convinced otherwise under any circumstance...there is no point in me or anyone trying. I haven't seen him or my nieces in about two years at this point, some of that was due to COVID restrictions.
I never said he wasn't. The point I'm trying to make is that you all are wasting your time and breath trying to convince people like him to see things your way. People like that don't care how many pleads or mandates you throw at them.
My wife also doesn't care what anyone outside of immediate family or maybe her doctor says. Again, you're better off focusing on you and your immediate circle than trying to convince people like HB.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
Johnson and Johnson is back
Johnson and Johnson is back
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:19:10 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:19:10 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AMJust saw that, we need vaccinations to speed up again. We need herd immunity
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
Johnson and Johnson is back
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:21:39 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:21:39 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:19:10 AMJ&J makes it easier to serve groups like homeless people and people where it would be hard to get them back for a second dose. So good news, hope people trust the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AMJust saw that, we need vaccinations to speed up again. We need herd immunity
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
Johnson and Johnson is back
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:22:40 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:22:40 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:21:39 AMHell yeah. We are easing restrictionsQuote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:19:10 AMJ&J makes it easier to serve groups like homeless people and people where it would be hard to get them back for a second dose. So good news, hope people trust the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AMJust saw that, we need vaccinations to speed up again. We need herd immunity
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
Johnson and Johnson is back
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:23:42 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:23:42 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:22:40 AMMasks don't taste very good.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:21:39 AMHell yeah. We are eating restrictionsQuote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:19:10 AMJ&J makes it easier to serve groups like homeless people and people where it would be hard to get them back for a second dose. So good news, hope people trust the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AMJust saw that, we need vaccinations to speed up again. We need herd immunity
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
Johnson and Johnson is back
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:25:22 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:25:22 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:23:42 AMRoy Cooper said he's not going to consider lifting the mask mandate until two-thirds of the adult population has at least one dose of the vaccine. But in the meantime, it's going to be a goodbye to the social distancing and capacity restrictions.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:22:40 AMMasks don't taste very good.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:21:39 AMHell yeah. We are eating restrictionsQuote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:19:10 AMJ&J makes it easier to serve groups like homeless people and people where it would be hard to get them back for a second dose. So good news, hope people trust the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AMJust saw that, we need vaccinations to speed up again. We need herd immunity
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
Johnson and Johnson is back
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:31:19 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:31:19 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:25:22 AMWest Virginia governor Jim Justice also said that he's not lifting the mask mandate until 70% is vaccinated. I am a fan of governors doing this to incentivize people to get the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:23:42 AMRoy Cooper said he's not going to consider lifting the mask mandate until two-thirds of the adult population has at least one dose of the vaccine. But in the meantime, it's going to be a goodbye to the social distancing and capacity restrictions.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:22:40 AMMasks don't taste very good.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:21:39 AMHell yeah. We are eating restrictionsQuote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:19:10 AMJ&J makes it easier to serve groups like homeless people and people where it would be hard to get them back for a second dose. So good news, hope people trust the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AMJust saw that, we need vaccinations to speed up again. We need herd immunity
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
Johnson and Johnson is back
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:38:37 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:38:37 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:31:19 AMYeah, and the Illinois governor said about half of the adult populationQuote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:25:22 AMWest Virginia governor Jim Justice also said that he's not lifting the mask mandate until 70% is vaccinated. I am a fan of governors doing this to incentivize people to get the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:23:42 AMRoy Cooper said he's not going to consider lifting the mask mandate until two-thirds of the adult population has at least one dose of the vaccine. But in the meantime, it's going to be a goodbye to the social distancing and capacity restrictions.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:22:40 AMMasks don't taste very good.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:21:39 AMHell yeah. We are eating restrictionsQuote from: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 12:19:10 AMJ&J makes it easier to serve groups like homeless people and people where it would be hard to get them back for a second dose. So good news, hope people trust the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:12:46 AMJust saw that, we need vaccinations to speed up again. We need herd immunity
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/
Johnson and Johnson is back
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on April 24, 2021, 01:01:17 AM
Post by: kkt on April 24, 2021, 01:01:17 AM
For most diseases, you need about 85% of the population immune before you get herd immunity. However, there's some immunity provided by getting a case, though I'm not sure if a mild case provides as much immunity as a severe case. So perhaps something like 70% of the adult population would be enough.
Roadgeekteen's sister is a minor, and I don't see such a problem with her parents telling her it's required. They presumably tell her she has to go to school (once it's in-person again), do her chores, and be home by curfew. They're the ones who'd have to homeschool her or pay for a homeschooling teacher if the schools require vaccination to attend in person. (It didn't even sound from what Roadgeekteen said that she was necessarily strongly opposed, just wasn't looking forward to it.)
Herd immunity is the goal, and I don't have much patience with people who don't cooperate. Yes, I'm familiar with people who just enjoy being stubborn, but I hope missing the things they are no longer allowed to do changes their minds sooner rather than later.
Roadgeekteen's sister is a minor, and I don't see such a problem with her parents telling her it's required. They presumably tell her she has to go to school (once it's in-person again), do her chores, and be home by curfew. They're the ones who'd have to homeschool her or pay for a homeschooling teacher if the schools require vaccination to attend in person. (It didn't even sound from what Roadgeekteen said that she was necessarily strongly opposed, just wasn't looking forward to it.)
Herd immunity is the goal, and I don't have much patience with people who don't cooperate. Yes, I'm familiar with people who just enjoy being stubborn, but I hope missing the things they are no longer allowed to do changes their minds sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 01:16:30 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 01:16:30 AM
Quote from: kkt on April 24, 2021, 01:01:17 AMWho's sister are you talking about? I don't have a sister?
For most diseases, you need about 85% of the population immune before you get herd immunity. However, there's some immunity provided by getting a case, though I'm not sure if a mild case provides as much immunity as a severe case. So perhaps something like 70% of the adult population would be enough.
Roadgeekteen's sister is a minor, and I don't see such a problem with her parents telling her it's required. They presumably tell her she has to go to school (once it's in-person again), do her chores, and be home by curfew. They're the ones who'd have to homeschool her or pay for a homeschooling teacher if the schools require vaccination to attend in person. (It didn't even sound from what Roadgeekteen said that she was necessarily strongly opposed, just wasn't looking forward to it.)
Herd immunity is the goal, and I don't have much patience with people who don't cooperate. Yes, I'm familiar with people who just enjoy being stubborn, but I hope missing the things they are no longer allowed to do changes their minds sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on April 24, 2021, 01:34:58 AM
Post by: kkt on April 24, 2021, 01:34:58 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 01:16:30 AMQuote from: kkt on April 24, 2021, 01:01:17 AMWho's sister are you talking about? I don't have a sister?
For most diseases, you need about 85% of the population immune before you get herd immunity. However, there's some immunity provided by getting a case, though I'm not sure if a mild case provides as much immunity as a severe case. So perhaps something like 70% of the adult population would be enough.
Roadgeekteen's sister is a minor, and I don't see such a problem with her parents telling her it's required. They presumably tell her she has to go to school (once it's in-person again), do her chores, and be home by curfew. They're the ones who'd have to homeschool her or pay for a homeschooling teacher if the schools require vaccination to attend in person. (It didn't even sound from what Roadgeekteen said that she was necessarily strongly opposed, just wasn't looking forward to it.)
Herd immunity is the goal, and I don't have much patience with people who don't cooperate. Yes, I'm familiar with people who just enjoy being stubborn, but I hope missing the things they are no longer allowed to do changes their minds sooner rather than later.
I'm sorry, it was tolbs17's sister.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bandit957 on April 24, 2021, 08:42:16 AM
Post by: bandit957 on April 24, 2021, 08:42:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PMHe has taken a hard line stance that mask wearing will negatively affect his breathing as well as and theirs.
I'm starting to think he's right about this. I've experimented with this, and I believe what I've experienced - not media figures who insist otherwise. Should I believe my own experiences, or should I believe media "experts" who are complete strangers who probably don't follow the rules themselves?
On a related note, has anyone here actually seen anyone kicked out of somewhere for not wearing a mask? I haven't seen this. A couple of the major supermarket or convenience store chains that have stores near me supposedly require masks on all customers at all their stores, but from the looks of it, their stores near me don't enforce it. I was in one of these stores a few months ago, and the clerk even said they don't enforce it, and not a single customer was wearing one. This was months before vaccines were even available.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 24, 2021, 08:49:02 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 24, 2021, 08:49:02 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on April 24, 2021, 08:42:16 AM
On a related note, has anyone here actually seen anyone kicked out of somewhere for not wearing a mask? I haven't seen this. A couple of the major supermarket or convenience store chains that have stores near me supposedly require masks on all customers at all their stores, but from the looks of it, their stores near me don't enforce it. I was in one of these stores a few months ago, and the clerk even said they don't enforce it, and not a single customer was wearing one. This was months before vaccines were even available.
It depends on where you are in the country. It is definitely the case where I live, although I've never seen it since compliance is almost perfect.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on April 24, 2021, 08:53:57 AM
Post by: Jim on April 24, 2021, 08:53:57 AM
Yes, mask usage is definitely different depending where you are. I can't think of the last time I saw someone indoors at a public place (and not eating/drinking) who wasn't wearing a face covering here in upstate NY. They don't all wear them properly, but it's very rare to see someone not wearing one at all.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 24, 2021, 09:24:07 AM
Post by: US 89 on April 24, 2021, 09:24:07 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 24, 2021, 08:49:02 AMQuote from: bandit957 on April 24, 2021, 08:42:16 AM
On a related note, has anyone here actually seen anyone kicked out of somewhere for not wearing a mask? I haven't seen this. A couple of the major supermarket or convenience store chains that have stores near me supposedly require masks on all customers at all their stores, but from the looks of it, their stores near me don't enforce it. I was in one of these stores a few months ago, and the clerk even said they don't enforce it, and not a single customer was wearing one. This was months before vaccines were even available.
It depends on where you are in the country. It is definitely the case where I live, although I've never seen it since compliance is almost perfect.
Even in Utah I've seen mask requirements semi-enforced... but not really. If you walked into Smith's without a mask, they'd tell you to put one on. Half the time it's an honest mistake and they left it in their car or whatever, but the other half it's some anti-mask person who then gets all argumentative with store staff, who don't want to escalate the situation to a point where the police might have to be called.
So basically you could get away with it by being a dick.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2021, 09:42:50 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2021, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: US 89 on April 24, 2021, 09:24:07 AMQuote from: 1 on April 24, 2021, 08:49:02 AMQuote from: bandit957 on April 24, 2021, 08:42:16 AM
On a related note, has anyone here actually seen anyone kicked out of somewhere for not wearing a mask? I haven't seen this. A couple of the major supermarket or convenience store chains that have stores near me supposedly require masks on all customers at all their stores, but from the looks of it, their stores near me don't enforce it. I was in one of these stores a few months ago, and the clerk even said they don't enforce it, and not a single customer was wearing one. This was months before vaccines were even available.
It depends on where you are in the country. It is definitely the case where I live, although I've never seen it since compliance is almost perfect.
Even in Utah I've seen mask requirements semi-enforced... but not really. If you walked into Smith's without a mask, they'd tell you to put one on. Half the time it's an honest mistake and they left it in their car or whatever, but the other half it's some anti-mask person who then gets all argumentative with store staff, who don't want to escalate the situation to a point where the police might have to be called.
So basically you could get away with it by being a dick.
Back in March when I was in St. George and Washington maybe half of the people we ran into who were indoors were wearing masks.
Regarding people refusing to wear masks and being kicked out, I've removed well over twenty people this last year. Only one of them ever got to the point where I had to call the police to do a formal trespass. Usually I'm only called upon if someone is at an anti-masker level. Most casual people go get their masks or fix them if an employee tells them to. It probably helps that this is a military base and its way easier to just kick someone out than in the real world.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 24, 2021, 12:09:25 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 24, 2021, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PMHe reopened his gyms in defiance of Arizona and Idaho State orders. He did (I don't know if he still does) have mask and social distancing guidelines in place. He was fined a couple times but saw it as the lesser evil given being shuttered was way more costly by his estimates (I don't know enough about his financials to determine the validity to that statement).
I can believe it, since mask mandates in many jurisdictions (including mine) were not set up for aggressive enforcement.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PMThere is a whole lot I don't agree with that my brother does. For the most part I believe he is making trouble for himself which could potentially have legal ramifications, he isn't exactly a stranger to that kind of thing (make of that what you will, you're probably right). I've told him that he isn't being smart but he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice, so I left it at that. I haven't even bothered to ask him what he thinks about vaccinations because the answer is rhetorical.
In another special-interest group I belong to, a woman whose adult sons are in their thirties reported (long before covid) that they had been involved in several bar fights over the years. Given that history, it didn't exactly surprise me when masking started and she reported that one of the sons, who is an OTR trucker, refused to mask up and was ejected for trespassing when he tried to check into a casino in Nevada at the height of the first wave.
In Wichita there is currently no general mask mandate. Our governor's attempt to re-institute one statewide on April 1 was overturned virtually instantly by the legislature, and neither the Wichita City Council nor the Sedgwick County Commission has even discussed the possibility. The mask mandates that still exist are in school districts and there is a former county commissioner who has been going around challenging them, so far unsuccessfully.
At the supermarket I have been seeing unmasked people in larger numbers. They skew young and male. Couples where the female partner wears a mask but the male does not are also increasingly common.
Within the City of Wichita, it has been decided that CDC guidelines will be followed. As a result, our public library (which is a city department) is eliminating its current one-day quarantine for physical materials, since the CDC has decided that surfaces do not play a role of any significance in transmission. (At the start of the pandemic in March 2020, we quarantined for three days; this increased to four in July 2020 and dropped to one when we restored access to the stacks in March 2021.) Masks are still required in city buildings.
There has been talk of small businesses in town grouping together to use a common set of "Please wear a mask" signs and promoting themselves as safer places to shop, eat, and so on.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 24, 2021, 12:21:41 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 24, 2021, 12:21:41 PM
It also depends on the staff. If the staff doesn't care to enforce the mandate, there's no power behind it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 24, 2021, 12:26:44 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on April 24, 2021, 12:26:44 PM
Back to the subject at hand...
Got shot 2 yesterday at noon (Moderna). The shoulder pain came on quicker this time but I didn't get dizzy like after shot 1. Skin got sensitive overnight and was feeling "feverish" (though I didn't see a temp). No shortness of breath (yet), but the sinuses cleared completely while I was in bed (interesting). Just showered, but body heat is up and sensitivity is still present, as is muscle ache in select areas. It is likely winding down, but the side effects did kick in about the same timeframe after shot as what kbhoger mentioned
Got shot 2 yesterday at noon (Moderna). The shoulder pain came on quicker this time but I didn't get dizzy like after shot 1. Skin got sensitive overnight and was feeling "feverish" (though I didn't see a temp). No shortness of breath (yet), but the sinuses cleared completely while I was in bed (interesting). Just showered, but body heat is up and sensitivity is still present, as is muscle ache in select areas. It is likely winding down, but the side effects did kick in about the same timeframe after shot as what kbhoger mentioned
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:32:41 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:32:41 PM
In Massachusetts, mask usage inside is 100% while outside it is at least 50%.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 24, 2021, 12:35:07 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on April 24, 2021, 12:35:07 PM
Lets keep the focus of the topic please! Take the mask commentary to a different thread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:35:58 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:35:58 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 24, 2021, 12:35:07 PMSorry, didn't see your above comment. I would, but the last coronavirus thread got locked.
Lets keep the focus of the topic please! Take the mask commentary to a different thread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 24, 2021, 01:14:04 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 24, 2021, 01:14:04 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 24, 2021, 12:35:58 PMQuote from: SSOWorld on April 24, 2021, 12:35:07 PMSorry, didn't see your above comment. I would, but the last coronavirus thread got locked.
Lets keep the focus of the topic please! Take the mask commentary to a different thread.
Maybe a different "forum" at this point. Discussion of mask wearing is just never ending :fight:
Personally I am partially vaccinated but refraining from answering the poll until I get the second shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 24, 2021, 03:42:54 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 24, 2021, 03:42:54 PM
Today I went to Hunter Health Clinic to get my second shot of the Moderna vaccine, having had the first (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28695.msg2590003#msg2590003) on March 27. The whole process took an hour and fifteen minutes, including the drive to and from (left 12.30 PM, returned 1.45). There was no wait at any stage: they'd upped the number of people handling check-in from six to 10, and I suspect they had more vaccinators as well. They took my vaccination card and handed it back in a cute plastic protector, which I thought was a nice touch.
While waiting out the fifteen-minute observation period, I worked my left arm vigorously to try to accelerate the diffusion of active substance. So far I don't have any side effects, other than my left deltoid feeling like it has had a needle stuck in it.
While waiting out the fifteen-minute observation period, I worked my left arm vigorously to try to accelerate the diffusion of active substance. So far I don't have any side effects, other than my left deltoid feeling like it has had a needle stuck in it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 24, 2021, 04:00:34 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 24, 2021, 04:00:34 PM
I just got my first shot (Moderna).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 04:50:00 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 04:50:00 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 24, 2021, 12:35:07 PMIt's prolly my fault
Lets keep the focus of the topic please! Take the mask commentary to a different thread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 24, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 24, 2021, 04:00:34 PMI heard it has more side effects compared to the other vaccines.
I just got my first shot (Moderna).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 25, 2021, 07:50:09 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 25, 2021, 07:50:09 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210425/b89e15fe327eca3b6d45f77fd7f14526.jpg)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 25, 2021, 07:59:29 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on April 25, 2021, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 25, 2021, 07:50:09 PMOr basketball player - but they usually are on their backs.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210425/b89e15fe327eca3b6d45f77fd7f14526.jpg)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 25, 2021, 08:23:29 PM
Post by: interstatefan990 on April 25, 2021, 08:23:29 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 25, 2021, 07:59:29 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 25, 2021, 07:50:09 PMOr basketball player - but they usually are on their backs.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210425/b89e15fe327eca3b6d45f77fd7f14526.jpg)
Call it a Pfizer Pflop.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 25, 2021, 08:24:04 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 25, 2021, 08:24:04 PM
In the 30 hours and counting since the second shot of Moderna, the worst side effect I've had is a headache that began about two hours afterward and lasted pretty much all evening. According to the adverse reactions table for under-65s in Moderna's DailyMed profile, 63% of patients report headache after the second shot, but for only 5% is it of Grade 3 severity (interferes with daily living/requires a NSAID). I treated it with a finger of Scotch, so I'm not sure which category I fall into.
My left deltoid is about as sore as it was after the first shot, with a minimal amount of swelling. I also had "Moderna arm" (a visible rash), but that seems to have gone away.
My left deltoid is about as sore as it was after the first shot, with a minimal amount of swelling. I also had "Moderna arm" (a visible rash), but that seems to have gone away.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on April 25, 2021, 09:29:24 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on April 25, 2021, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 25, 2021, 08:24:04 PMAt least you got rid of it.
In the 30 hours and counting since the second shot of Moderna, the worst side effect I've had is a headache that began about two hours afterward and lasted pretty much all evening. According to the adverse reactions table for under-65s in Moderna's DailyMed profile, 63% of patients report headache after the second shot, but for only 5% is it of Grade 3 severity (interferes with daily living/requires a NSAID). I treated it with a finger of Scotch, so I'm not sure which category I fall into.
My left deltoid is about as sore as it was after the first shot, with a minimal amount of swelling. I also had "Moderna arm" (a visible rash), but that seems to have gone away.
The 2nd shot resulted in chills and "heating" (not feverish) with sensitive to the touch for me (also moderna). No moderna rash
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 25, 2021, 09:57:50 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 25, 2021, 09:57:50 PM
The J&J vaccine is making a slow comeback.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/25/metro/state-expects-about-4000-johnson-johnson-covid-19-doses-this-week/
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/25/metro/state-expects-about-4000-johnson-johnson-covid-19-doses-this-week/
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on April 26, 2021, 08:00:18 AM
Post by: SectorZ on April 26, 2021, 08:00:18 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 25, 2021, 09:57:50 PM
The J&J vaccine is making a slow comeback.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/25/metro/state-expects-about-4000-johnson-johnson-covid-19-doses-this-week/
Without looking I know this but confirmed anyways, why are you linking a totally paywalled site?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on April 26, 2021, 09:23:49 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on April 26, 2021, 09:23:49 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 26, 2021, 08:00:18 AMCause I had adblock disabled.Quote from: tolbs17 on April 25, 2021, 09:57:50 PM
The J&J vaccine is making a slow comeback.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/25/metro/state-expects-about-4000-johnson-johnson-covid-19-doses-this-week/
Without looking I know this but confirmed anyways, why are you linking a totally paywalled site?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 02:36:33 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PM
... he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice ...
If people don't listen to what you have to say, then it must be that you're not yelling loud enough. Right?
It amazes me that some people seem to think others aren't getting vaccinated because they somehow haven't managed to hear some little tidbit over the last year, and that just hearing it from them will make them change their minds.
Everyone has heard it all already.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 02:38:51 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 02:38:51 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 02:36:33 PMRight. You can't fix stupid.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2021, 11:28:41 PM
... he also told me he wasn't looking for my advice ...
If people don't listen to what you have to say, then it must be that you're not yelling loud enough. Right?
It amazes me that some people seem to think others aren't getting vaccinated because they somehow haven't managed to hear some little tidbit over the last year, and that just hearing it from them will make them change their minds.
Everyone has heard it all already.
Title: Re: Coronavirus vaccination status?
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on April 26, 2021, 03:10:58 PM
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on April 26, 2021, 03:10:58 PM
I'm pretty surprised at the vaccination progress in the USA, especially knowing how awful your health system is. Over here the progress has been painfully slow, only this week everyone over 60 in Aragon, Spain will be able to get an appointment. But at least the process has been speeding up exponentially despite the drawbacks (those overreactions to the really rare blood clots), basically doubling the number of shots given every month.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 26, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 26, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on April 26, 2021, 03:10:58 PM
I'm pretty surprised at the vaccination progress in the USA, especially knowing how awful your health system is.
Because when you say "how awful it is", the only thing you really mean is "you people have to pay insane amounts for healthcare". Which I agree is awful, but that issue isn't relevant to why we've been able to get vaccines distributed and into arms.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 03:32:26 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 03:32:26 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 26, 2021, 03:24:40 PMQuote from: CNGL-Leudimin on April 26, 2021, 03:10:58 PM
I'm pretty surprised at the vaccination progress in the USA, especially knowing how awful your health system is.
Because when you say "how awful it is", the only thing you really mean is "you people have to pay insane amounts for healthcare". Which I agree is awful, but that issue isn't relevant to why we've been able to get vaccines distributed and into arms.
Yeah. The U.S. healthcare is second to none...if you're rich. This fortunately hasn't mattered for the vaccine effort because the vaccines themselves are being purchased by the government and distributed for free.
There is also the fact that vaccine distribution is more a matter of logistics than it is of healthcare. I don't think there's much specialized medical knowledge involved in giving an injection. The real challenge of vaccination is shipping the vaccines where they need to go under tight temperature constraints, and organizing clinics in order to efficiently administer them in such a way that they are accessible to the population that needs it. Those challenges are the kinds of problems that the U.S. is excellent at solving.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 03:38:38 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 03:38:38 PM
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't describe the US health system as "awful" except maybe with regard to cost specifically. Vaccinations have been going at about the rate I expected, honestly.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dkblake on April 26, 2021, 04:09:52 PM
Post by: dkblake on April 26, 2021, 04:09:52 PM
Despite the expected sparring over vaccination preferences, worth noting that as of right now, 1/7 of the respondents of the poll at the top of the thread have chosen one of the "not getting it" options. I'm not sure what broader polling is, and don't know if those sorts of polls can get at the "true" percentage of people opposed to getting the vaccine, but 1/7 against it sounds either right or somewhat low.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Bruce on April 26, 2021, 04:10:31 PM
Post by: Bruce on April 26, 2021, 04:10:31 PM
Got my second Moderna dose done and have had minor side effects, unlike the first dose. Kind of strange, especially since I was bracing myself for a few days stuck in bed. The cooler weather might have helped, in my case.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JoePCool14 on April 26, 2021, 04:29:17 PM
Post by: JoePCool14 on April 26, 2021, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: dkblake on April 26, 2021, 04:09:52 PM
Despite the expected sparring over vaccination preferences, worth noting that as of right now, 1/7 of the respondents of the poll at the top of the thread have chosen one of the "not getting it" options. I'm not sure what broader polling is, and don't know if those sorts of polls can get at the "true" percentage of people opposed to getting the vaccine, but 1/7 against it sounds either right or somewhat low.
I'm willing to bet the AARoads community has a higher percentage of vaccine takers than the general population.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 04:32:27 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 04:32:27 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 03:38:38 PMOur health outcomes compared to other developed countries are pitiful.
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't describe the US health system as "awful" except maybe with regard to cost specifically. Vaccinations have been going at about the rate I expected, honestly.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 04:33:00 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 26, 2021, 04:29:17 PMQuote from: dkblake on April 26, 2021, 04:09:52 PM
Despite the expected sparring over vaccination preferences, worth noting that as of right now, 1/7 of the respondents of the poll at the top of the thread have chosen one of the "not getting it" options. I'm not sure what broader polling is, and don't know if those sorts of polls can get at the "true" percentage of people opposed to getting the vaccine, but 1/7 against it sounds either right or somewhat low.
I'm willing to bet the AARoads community has a higher percentage of vaccine takers than the general population.
If only we could get HB vaccinated...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 04:51:02 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 04:51:02 PM
I just got my first dose of Pfizer!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JoePCool14 on April 26, 2021, 04:54:24 PM
Post by: JoePCool14 on April 26, 2021, 04:54:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 04:33:00 PMQuote from: JoePCool14 on April 26, 2021, 04:29:17 PMIf only we could get HB vaccinated...Quote from: dkblake on April 26, 2021, 04:09:52 PMI'm willing to bet the AARoads community has a higher percentage of vaccine takers than the general population.
Despite the expected sparring over vaccination preferences, worth noting that as of right now, 1/7 of the respondents of the poll at the top of the thread have chosen one of the "not getting it" options. I'm not sure what broader polling is, and don't know if those sorts of polls can get at the "true" percentage of people opposed to getting the vaccine, but 1/7 against it sounds either right or somewhat low.
I like how HB actually was the one to start this thread, of all people on this forum.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 05:09:00 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 05:09:00 PM
https://www.wvnews.com/news/wvnews/west-virginia-gov-justice-state-will-use-covid-19-stimulus-funds-to-give-all-residents/article_3464b366-a6af-11eb-8cef-a3be246c97ac.html
:-D :-D :clap:
:-D :-D :clap:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 05:18:48 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 05:18:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 04:32:27 PMQuote from: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 03:38:38 PM
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't describe the US health system as "awful" except maybe with regard to cost specifically. Vaccinations have been going at about the rate I expected, honestly.
Our health outcomes compared to other developed countries are pitiful.
Do you mean the outcome of specific procedures in our nation is worse than the outcome of those same specific procedures elsewhere? Or do you simply mean that we as a people are unhealthier?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 26, 2021, 06:03:54 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 26, 2021, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 05:18:48 PMDo you mean the outcome of specific procedures in our nation is worse than the outcome of those same specific procedures elsewhere? Or do you simply mean that we as a people are unhealthier?
At the population level, we have lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than many western European countries with socialized health care. One US state (Alabama) is close to having an infant mortality rate that would disqualify it as a developed country if it were its own nation.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 26, 2021, 06:03:54 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 05:18:48 PM
Do you mean the outcome of specific procedures in our nation is worse than the outcome of those same specific procedures elsewhere? Or do you simply mean that we as a people are unhealthier?
At the population level, we have lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than many western European countries with socialized health care. One US state (Alabama) is close to having an infant mortality rate that would disqualify it as a developed country if it were its own nation.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:10:17 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:10:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMSo are Americans dumber or is the system just worse?Quote from: J N Winkler on April 26, 2021, 06:03:54 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 05:18:48 PM
Do you mean the outcome of specific procedures in our nation is worse than the outcome of those same specific procedures elsewhere? Or do you simply mean that we as a people are unhealthier?
At the population level, we have lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than many western European countries with socialized health care. One US state (Alabama) is close to having an infant mortality rate that would disqualify it as a developed country if it were its own nation.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:20:16 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:20:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:10:17 PM
So are Americans dumber or is the system just worse?
My guess is neither one. My guess is that out-of-pocket cost has a LOT to do with it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on April 26, 2021, 06:20:56 PM
Post by: kkt on April 26, 2021, 06:20:56 PM
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:20:16 PMSo healthcare should be cheaper I guess?Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:10:17 PM
So are Americans dumber or is the system just worse?
My guess is neither one. My guess is that out-of-pocket cost has a LOT to do with it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:22:24 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 26, 2021, 06:20:56 PMThanks! It's a relief finally having it, just can't wait for my second dose appointment on 5/17! Hopefully, the side effects won't be too bad for dose 2.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 04:51:02 PM
I just got my first dose of Pfizer!
Congrats!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:46:31 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:46:31 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:20:16 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:10:17 PM
So are Americans dumber or is the system just worse?
My guess is neither one. My guess is that out-of-pocket cost has a LOT to do with it.
So healthcare should be cheaper I guess?
That's a tricky question, because "the cost of health care" can mean many different things. Does it mean the amount of money your doctor/hospital spends in order to treat you? Does it mean the amount of money the government spends on health care? Does it mean the overall cost of your insurance plan? Does it mean the amount of money taken out of your paycheck to afford that plan? Does it mean the amount of money you still have to pay in the form of deductibles and copays? Etc, etc, etc. Lowering one of those numbers doesn't necessarily lower the others, so would doing so actually make health care "cheaper"?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:47:21 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:47:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:46:31 PMThe cost you pay, not what the government or hospital pay.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:20:16 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:10:17 PM
So are Americans dumber or is the system just worse?
My guess is neither one. My guess is that out-of-pocket cost has a LOT to do with it.
So healthcare should be cheaper I guess?
That's a tricky question, because "the cost of health care" can mean many different things. Does it mean the amount of money your doctor/hospital spends in order to treat you? Does it mean the amount of money the government spends on health care? Does it mean the overall cost of your insurance plan? Does it mean the amount of money taken out of your paycheck to afford that plan? Does it mean the amount of money you still have to pay in the form of deductibles and copays? Etc, etc, etc. Lowering one of those numbers doesn't necessarily lower the others, so would doing so actually make health care "cheaper"?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ben114 on April 26, 2021, 06:54:01 PM
Post by: Ben114 on April 26, 2021, 06:54:01 PM
First dose of Pfizer done.
One more to go in three weeks.
One more to go in three weeks.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:00:18 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:00:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 05:18:48 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 04:32:27 PMQuote from: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 03:38:38 PM
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't describe the US health system as "awful" except maybe with regard to cost specifically. Vaccinations have been going at about the rate I expected, honestly.
Our health outcomes compared to other developed countries are pitiful.
Do you mean the outcome of specific procedures in our nation is worse than the outcome of those same specific procedures elsewhere? Or do you simply mean that we as a people are unhealthier?
Yeah, I'd like "outcomes" to be much more clearly defined before I ventured to agree or disagree.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 07:06:45 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:47:21 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:46:31 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:21:26 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:20:16 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:10:17 PM
So are Americans dumber or is the system just worse?
My guess is neither one. My guess is that out-of-pocket cost has a LOT to do with it.
So healthcare should be cheaper I guess?
That's a tricky question, because "the cost of health care" can mean many different things. Does it mean the amount of money your doctor/hospital spends in order to treat you? Does it mean the amount of money the government spends on health care? Does it mean the overall cost of your insurance plan? Does it mean the amount of money taken out of your paycheck to afford that plan? Does it mean the amount of money you still have to pay in the form of deductibles and copays? Etc, etc, etc. Lowering one of those numbers doesn't necessarily lower the others, so would doing so actually make health care "cheaper"?
The cost you pay, not what the government or hospital pay.
Which could be one of several definitions I suggested.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:11:34 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:11:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PM
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
I would submit that if you are unable to take advantage of a system that is supposed to be meeting your needs, that system is functionally useless.
Much like if the Interstate system were built without on or off ramps. Sure, it's a world-class transportation system, but if you can't actually get on it and use it, what was the point of building it in the first place?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:17:52 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:17:52 PM
To extend the comparison even further, maybe we could say the US system is more like a turnpike, while other countries' systems are more like a regular freeway or expressway.
It's worth noting that it's not all peaches and roses when things become more affordable. Canada, for example, has free healthcare, but their delays and wait times are ridiculous. You'll likely be on a waiting list for years unless you're in a life-or-death situation. Their system might be more like a 6-lane urban arterial.
It's worth noting that it's not all peaches and roses when things become more affordable. Canada, for example, has free healthcare, but their delays and wait times are ridiculous. You'll likely be on a waiting list for years unless you're in a life-or-death situation. Their system might be more like a 6-lane urban arterial.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 07:34:14 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 07:34:14 PM
Maybe we need a new healthcare thread.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 07:50:20 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:17:52 PM*citation needed*
To extend the comparison even further, maybe we could say the US system is more like a turnpike, while other countries' systems are more like a regular freeway or expressway.
It's worth noting that it's not all peaches and roses when things become more affordable. Canada, for example, has free healthcare, but their delays and wait times are ridiculous. You'll likely be on a waiting list for years unless you're in a life-or-death situation. Their system might be more like a 6-lane urban arterial.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:01:53 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:01:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 07:50:20 PMDo we need to source everything on this forum?Quote from: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:17:52 PM*citation needed*
To extend the comparison even further, maybe we could say the US system is more like a turnpike, while other countries' systems are more like a regular freeway or expressway.
It's worth noting that it's not all peaches and roses when things become more affordable. Canada, for example, has free healthcare, but their delays and wait times are ridiculous. You'll likely be on a waiting list for years unless you're in a life-or-death situation. Their system might be more like a 6-lane urban arterial.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 08:02:35 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:01:53 PMIf becoming hyperbolic, yes.Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 07:50:20 PMDo we need to source everything on this forum?Quote from: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:17:52 PM*citation needed*
To extend the comparison even further, maybe we could say the US system is more like a turnpike, while other countries' systems are more like a regular freeway or expressway.
It's worth noting that it's not all peaches and roses when things become more affordable. Canada, for example, has free healthcare, but their delays and wait times are ridiculous. You'll likely be on a waiting list for years unless you're in a life-or-death situation. Their system might be more like a 6-lane urban arterial.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:05:31 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:05:31 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 08:02:35 PMI do know that Canada's healthcare can have long waits.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:01:53 PMIf becoming hyperbolic, yes.Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 07:50:20 PMDo we need to source everything on this forum?Quote from: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:17:52 PM*citation needed*
To extend the comparison even further, maybe we could say the US system is more like a turnpike, while other countries' systems are more like a regular freeway or expressway.
It's worth noting that it's not all peaches and roses when things become more affordable. Canada, for example, has free healthcare, but their delays and wait times are ridiculous. You'll likely be on a waiting list for years unless you're in a life-or-death situation. Their system might be more like a 6-lane urban arterial.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2020#:~:text=The%20waiting%20time%20in%20this%20segment%20increased%20from%2010.8%20weeks,reasonable%E2%80%9D%20(7.8%20weeks).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PM
Post by: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMNope, it's like saying that a city's education system as a whole is crap. The education system includes getting people to want to learn and funding all schools according to what they need.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PMIt's a two-way street. Parental engagement has a lot to do with student success.Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMNope, it's like saying that a city's education system as a whole is crap. The education system includes getting people to want to learn and funding all schools according to what they need.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:21:09 PM
Post by: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:21:09 PM
Helping parents with their kids or providing an adequate substitute is also part of the education system.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:28:00 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:28:00 PM
Quote from: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:21:09 PMYes, but it can't solve all problems.
Helping parents with their kids or providing an adequate substitute is also part of the education system.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on April 26, 2021, 08:33:26 PM
Post by: hbelkins on April 26, 2021, 08:33:26 PM
Someone else mentioned it, but I'm curious about the others who voted they aren't taking the shot but haven't commented about it. Are they afraid they're going to be piled on like what has happened to me?
I'm also curious as to how many people will continue to wear masks when governmental mandates expire or are lifted, and how many people will continue to avoid activities such as eating in restaurants or attending events like movies, concerts, or ballgames. I know we have at least one person who has expressed an extreme reluctance to stay in a hotel/motel.
I'm also curious as to how many people will continue to wear masks when governmental mandates expire or are lifted, and how many people will continue to avoid activities such as eating in restaurants or attending events like movies, concerts, or ballgames. I know we have at least one person who has expressed an extreme reluctance to stay in a hotel/motel.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 26, 2021, 08:36:53 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 26, 2021, 08:36:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 26, 2021, 08:33:26 PM
I'm also curious as to how many people will continue to wear masks when governmental mandates expire or are lifted, and how many people will continue to avoid activities such as eating in restaurants or attending events like movies, concerts, or ballgames. I know we have at least one person who has expressed an extreme reluctance to stay in a hotel/motel.
My guess is that it will stop near-suddenly when we pass the herd immunity threshold. (Passing the threshold means the virus will fade away even with normal daily life. It's not instant, but it does mean that going back to normal won't be a problem anymore.)
Increased work from home might be permanent.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 26, 2021, 08:37:43 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 26, 2021, 08:37:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PMQuote from: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PMIt's a two-way street. Parental engagement has a lot to do with student success.Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMNope, it's like saying that a city's education system as a whole is crap. The education system includes getting people to want to learn and funding all schools according to what they need.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
That's true 100%, but in single-family homes (which are much more prevalent in impoverished areas), the parent often has to choose between working and being more involved with the kids. This is a no-win. If the parent doesn't work, (s)he is accused of freeloading off the government. If the parent does work, which is often evening/night work because that's what's more available in poor areas, then the kids is much more unsupervised and more susceptible to bad influences like gangs/drugs/etc.
Would this be a better country if people didn't have kids out of wedlock and didn't get divorced so much? Of course, but you can't legislate that. A real poverty-busting program must not only give poor kids the same quality schools as middle and upper class kids, but also give parents support so that they can both earn money at a job and have support in raising their kids. If we really committed to this, poverty would go down drastically within 20 years, with a corresponding decrease in crime, drugs and dependence on government support. The money you spend gets paid back down the road via decreased need for police/courts/public assistance plus the corresponding increase in taxpayers who would otherwise be either dead or making a living illegally and not paying taxes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:43:44 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 26, 2021, 08:37:43 PMWhat would we do about single-parent homes?Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PMQuote from: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PMIt's a two-way street. Parental engagement has a lot to do with student success.Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMNope, it's like saying that a city's education system as a whole is crap. The education system includes getting people to want to learn and funding all schools according to what they need.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
That's true 100%, but in single-family homes (which are much more prevalent in impoverished areas), the parent often has to choose between working and being more involved with the kids. This is a no-win. If the parent doesn't work, (s)he is accused of freeloading off the government. If the parent does work, which is often evening/night work because that's what's more available in poor areas, then the kids is much more unsupervised and more susceptible to bad influences like gangs/drugs/etc.
Would this be a better country if people didn't have kids out of wedlock and didn't get divorced so much? Of course, but you can't legislate that. A real poverty-busting program must not only give poor kids the same quality schools as middle and upper class kids, but also give parents support so that they can both earn money at a job and have support in raising their kids. If we really committed to this, poverty would go down drastically within 20 years, with a corresponding decrease in crime, drugs and dependence on government support. The money you spend gets paid back down the road via decreased need for police/courts/public assistance plus the corresponding increase in taxpayers who would otherwise be either dead or making a living illegally and not paying taxes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on April 26, 2021, 08:52:40 PM
Post by: kkt on April 26, 2021, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on April 26, 2021, 06:54:01 PM
First dose of Pfizer done.
One more to go in three weeks.
Yay!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 26, 2021, 08:53:09 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 26, 2021, 08:53:09 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:43:44 PMQuote from: cabiness42 on April 26, 2021, 08:37:43 PMWhat would we do about single-parent homes?Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PMQuote from: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PMIt's a two-way street. Parental engagement has a lot to do with student success.Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMNope, it's like saying that a city's education system as a whole is crap. The education system includes getting people to want to learn and funding all schools according to what they need.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
That's true 100%, but in single-family homes (which are much more prevalent in impoverished areas), the parent often has to choose between working and being more involved with the kids. This is a no-win. If the parent doesn't work, (s)he is accused of freeloading off the government. If the parent does work, which is often evening/night work because that's what's more available in poor areas, then the kids is much more unsupervised and more susceptible to bad influences like gangs/drugs/etc.
Would this be a better country if people didn't have kids out of wedlock and didn't get divorced so much? Of course, but you can't legislate that. A real poverty-busting program must not only give poor kids the same quality schools as middle and upper class kids, but also give parents support so that they can both earn money at a job and have support in raising their kids. If we really committed to this, poverty would go down drastically within 20 years, with a corresponding decrease in crime, drugs and dependence on government support. The money you spend gets paid back down the road via decreased need for police/courts/public assistance plus the corresponding increase in taxpayers who would otherwise be either dead or making a living illegally and not paying taxes.
There need to be school-based (yet separate personnel from the schools) community centers where kids who have working parents can spend time being tutored/mentored while the parent is at work. Get the kids interested in something positive from an early age + keep them away from drugs and gangs.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 26, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 26, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 26, 2021, 08:33:26 PMI'm also curious as to how many people will continue to wear masks when governmental mandates expire or are lifted, and how many people will continue to avoid activities such as eating in restaurants or attending events like movies, concerts, or ballgames. I know we have at least one person who has expressed an extreme reluctance to stay in a hotel/motel.
I have now had a full course of shots and live in a jurisdiction with no general mask mandate, yet I still wear a mask. I don't intend to do that on a permanent basis, but am waiting to see what happens with herd immunity and the covid variants that are in circulation.
I've actually toyed with the idea of booking flights to and from Mexico City for the autumn, but feel that would be premature at this point. I feel comfortable taking multi-day trips out of town right now, but as visiting museums is a major travel focus for me, I think I'd find them more enjoyable once cultural facilities feel safe dropping indoors mask requirements on their premises. I think we would need an all-clear from the CDC in order for that to happen. (I'm happy to go to our local art museum with a mask, since my visits are typically both brief and frequent. For a yearly visit to the Nelson-Atkins in Kansas City or a once-in-several-years visit to the Art Institute in Chicago, I'd like to be able to spend a few hours without my glasses fogging up.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 26, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 26, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:43:44 PMI don't know about single-parent homes, but the post said single-family homes, and there's an easy solution to that: zoning.Quote from: cabiness42 on April 26, 2021, 08:37:43 PMWhat would we do about single-parent homes?Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PMQuote from: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PMIt's a two-way street. Parental engagement has a lot to do with student success.Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMNope, it's like saying that a city's education system as a whole is crap. The education system includes getting people to want to learn and funding all schools according to what they need.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
That's true 100%, but in single-family homes (which are much more prevalent in impoverished areas), the parent often has to choose between working and being more involved with the kids. This is a no-win. If the parent doesn't work, (s)he is accused of freeloading off the government. If the parent does work, which is often evening/night work because that's what's more available in poor areas, then the kids is much more unsupervised and more susceptible to bad influences like gangs/drugs/etc.
Would this be a better country if people didn't have kids out of wedlock and didn't get divorced so much? Of course, but you can't legislate that. A real poverty-busting program must not only give poor kids the same quality schools as middle and upper class kids, but also give parents support so that they can both earn money at a job and have support in raising their kids. If we really committed to this, poverty would go down drastically within 20 years, with a corresponding decrease in crime, drugs and dependence on government support. The money you spend gets paid back down the road via decreased need for police/courts/public assistance plus the corresponding increase in taxpayers who would otherwise be either dead or making a living illegally and not paying taxes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:39:00 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:39:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 26, 2021, 09:37:25 PMWhat would zoning do?Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:43:44 PMI don't know about single-parent homes, but the post said single-family homes, and there's an easy solution to that: zoning.Quote from: cabiness42 on April 26, 2021, 08:37:43 PMWhat would we do about single-parent homes?Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PMQuote from: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PMIt's a two-way street. Parental engagement has a lot to do with student success.Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMNope, it's like saying that a city's education system as a whole is crap. The education system includes getting people to want to learn and funding all schools according to what they need.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
That's true 100%, but in single-family homes (which are much more prevalent in impoverished areas), the parent often has to choose between working and being more involved with the kids. This is a no-win. If the parent doesn't work, (s)he is accused of freeloading off the government. If the parent does work, which is often evening/night work because that's what's more available in poor areas, then the kids is much more unsupervised and more susceptible to bad influences like gangs/drugs/etc.
Would this be a better country if people didn't have kids out of wedlock and didn't get divorced so much? Of course, but you can't legislate that. A real poverty-busting program must not only give poor kids the same quality schools as middle and upper class kids, but also give parents support so that they can both earn money at a job and have support in raising their kids. If we really committed to this, poverty would go down drastically within 20 years, with a corresponding decrease in crime, drugs and dependence on government support. The money you spend gets paid back down the road via decreased need for police/courts/public assistance plus the corresponding increase in taxpayers who would otherwise be either dead or making a living illegally and not paying taxes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on April 26, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Post by: vdeane on April 26, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:39:00 PMRequire developers build multi-family housing (ie, apartments).Quote from: vdeane on April 26, 2021, 09:37:25 PMWhat would zoning do?Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:43:44 PMI don't know about single-parent homes, but the post said single-family homes, and there's an easy solution to that: zoning.Quote from: cabiness42 on April 26, 2021, 08:37:43 PMWhat would we do about single-parent homes?Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:09:26 PMQuote from: NE2 on April 26, 2021, 08:08:16 PMIt's a two-way street. Parental engagement has a lot to do with student success.Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 06:07:50 PMNope, it's like saying that a city's education system as a whole is crap. The education system includes getting people to want to learn and funding all schools according to what they need.
But that isn't necessarily a commentary on our country's health care system. Perhaps people simply are unable or unwilling to take advantage of that system.
It's a bit (but not exactly) like saying a city's schools are crap because graduation rates are low.
That's true 100%, but in single-family homes (which are much more prevalent in impoverished areas), the parent often has to choose between working and being more involved with the kids. This is a no-win. If the parent doesn't work, (s)he is accused of freeloading off the government. If the parent does work, which is often evening/night work because that's what's more available in poor areas, then the kids is much more unsupervised and more susceptible to bad influences like gangs/drugs/etc.
Would this be a better country if people didn't have kids out of wedlock and didn't get divorced so much? Of course, but you can't legislate that. A real poverty-busting program must not only give poor kids the same quality schools as middle and upper class kids, but also give parents support so that they can both earn money at a job and have support in raising their kids. If we really committed to this, poverty would go down drastically within 20 years, with a corresponding decrease in crime, drugs and dependence on government support. The money you spend gets paid back down the road via decreased need for police/courts/public assistance plus the corresponding increase in taxpayers who would otherwise be either dead or making a living illegally and not paying taxes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 10:09:58 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 10:09:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:05:31 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 08:02:35 PMI do know that Canada's healthcare can have long waits.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 08:01:53 PMIf becoming hyperbolic, yes.Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 07:50:20 PMDo we need to source everything on this forum?Quote from: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 07:17:52 PM*citation needed*
To extend the comparison even further, maybe we could say the US system is more like a turnpike, while other countries' systems are more like a regular freeway or expressway.
It's worth noting that it's not all peaches and roses when things become more affordable. Canada, for example, has free healthcare, but their delays and wait times are ridiculous. You'll likely be on a waiting list for years unless you're in a life-or-death situation. Their system might be more like a 6-lane urban arterial.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2020#:~:text=The%20waiting%20time%20in%20this%20segment%20increased%20from%2010.8%20weeks,reasonable%E2%80%9D%20(7.8%20weeks).
Good source. That's the one I was going to link to as well.
Yes, "years" might be hyperbole, but not by much. PEI reports waits of 46.5 weeks, so basically a year. And I also have friends in Ontario that have shared experiences of 6+ months of wait time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 26, 2021, 10:10:43 PM
Post by: US 89 on April 26, 2021, 10:10:43 PM
Got my second dose of Pfizer today.
Hopefully I don't get any side effects.
Hopefully I don't get any side effects.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 10:12:33 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 10:12:33 PM
Quote from: US 89 on April 26, 2021, 10:10:43 PMAlmost everyone gets them (my grandmother didn't for some reason). I think that stronger side effects means the vaccine was more effective, but I could be wrong.
Got my second dose of Pfizer today.
Hopefully I don't get any side effects.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2021, 10:16:58 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2021, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 26, 2021, 08:33:26 PM
Someone else mentioned it, but I'm curious about the others who voted they aren't taking the shot but haven't commented about it. Are they afraid they're going to be piled on like what has happened to me?
I'm also curious as to how many people will continue to wear masks when governmental mandates expire or are lifted, and how many people will continue to avoid activities such as eating in restaurants or attending events like movies, concerts, or ballgames. I know we have at least one person who has expressed an extreme reluctance to stay in a hotel/motel.
Really I haven't been afraid to do much of anything normalized for probably at least half a year. My own conclusion was that I likely caught COVID in December of 2019 which was followed up by my wife catching it for sure during the summer of 2020. I was apparently too essential to work from home at any point last year which kind of made me question how much more dangerous things like going to the gym, staying at hotel or going somewhere to eat was by comparison (I have a very public job which has me interact with dozens of people daily). I was seeing movies up until the theaters shut down and probably would be now if they actually had anything worth seeing.
In the case of the gym, that was a highly contentious issue for me personally given that I wasn't willing to sacrifice my health and stop weight lifting. I built a pandemic gym in the garage when I didn't have any other options but once my gym reopened in defiance of California's purple tier restrictions I decided to return. Considering my gym required masks and equipment to be cleaned I saw it as low risk.
If/when the mask mandate goes away, I have no inclination to wear one anymore. I kind of feel like they have given people a false sense of security and there isn't much that can be truly done to prevent exposure in an enclosed space. I'll probably carry a mask around just in case some private business requires it, I just prefer to avoid the headache of getting into debates with people when the time comes.
So with all that said, I refer several pages back to what I said regarding a vaccination being a means to an ends for me towards resuming normalcy. I don't want a lack of a vaccination to become a potential barrier which prevents me from doing the things I want to do in life. Yeah, I don't think it is a particularly big deal for people to get a vaccine (meaning they ought to along with using a mask until it's not required) but I also know full well some are just never going to do so. All the same I have no interest of trying to convince others who won't get a vaccine, I don't see that burden that is a worthwhile use of my time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 26, 2021, 10:20:50 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 26, 2021, 10:20:50 PM
Why do you think you had it in December of 2019? We probably had fewer than 100 US cases by then.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2021, 10:26:53 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2021, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 26, 2021, 10:20:50 PM
Why do you think you had it in December of 2019? We probably had fewer than 100 US cases by then.
Plenty of dead in California from late 2019 have been found to have COVID during autopsies. I was sick for about a month with pretty much every classic COVID symptom. Many symptoms like a lack of appetite, a loss of taste and a dry cough that wouldn't go away were things I never have experienced in any flu. I also ended up losing 20 pounds during that month and my doctor couldn't diagnose what was wrong with me. The way it was phrased by him was "unknown viral infection."
It might interest you to look into some of the evidence regarding COVID being present in the United States months before the outbreak in Wuhan. There is a lot of evidence for it at this point, especially on the West Coast.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on April 26, 2021, 11:11:39 PM
Post by: Duke87 on April 26, 2021, 11:11:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 26, 2021, 08:33:26 PM
I'm also curious as to how many people will continue to wear masks when governmental mandates expire or are lifted, and how many people will continue to avoid activities such as eating in restaurants or attending events like movies, concerts, or ballgames. I know we have at least one person who has expressed an extreme reluctance to stay in a hotel/motel.
My general sentiment is that once two weeks have passed since shot 2, covid is no longer my problem, and I will be willing to do anything I'd normally do. At least provided the venue/jurisdiction doesn't have rules in place that make it unappealing (I have for example seen venues that still want a negative test produced to enter even if you're fully vaccinated. No thanks, my business is going elsewhere).
That said, I will continue wearing a mask to the grocery store and what have you for as long as it remains required... begrudgingly.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on April 26, 2021, 11:15:41 PM
Post by: bm7 on April 26, 2021, 11:15:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 26, 2021, 08:33:26 PM
Someone else mentioned it, but I'm curious about the others who voted they aren't taking the shot but haven't commented about it. Are they afraid they're going to be piled on like what has happened to me?
There are currently 113 votes in the poll, and I doubt there's been half that many people who have posted in the thread in total, so there's plenty of people who said they are getting/have gotten vaccinated who haven't replied either. I know there's been a few others who have posted saying they aren't getting it, so I don't think it's that they haven't been as likely to respond, as much as just the fact that there's way more people on here who are getting it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 11:23:05 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 11:23:05 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on April 26, 2021, 11:11:39 PM
My general sentiment is that once two weeks have passed since shot 2, covid is no longer my problem, and I will be willing to do anything I'd normally do. At least provided the venue/jurisdiction doesn't have rules in place that make it unappealing (I have for example seen venues that still want a negative test produced to enter even if you're fully vaccinated. No thanks, my business is going elsewhere).
That said, I will continue wearing a mask to the grocery store and what have you for as long as it remains required... begrudgingly.
This is kind of where I'm at. As I've said before, at a certain point the restrictions are going to have to end and everyone who can't get it will have to quarantine, and everyone who won't get it will have to suffer the consequences of their decision. I don't think it's fair to have restrictions going on and on because we haven't hit some target percentage of the population with the vaccine, while we have it available to everyone in the state to roll up and get it whenever they like.
I am looking forward to my local mask mandate ending on June 1st because I'm kind of sick of having to deal with my glasses fogging up and falling off because the straps make them slide off my ears. Until then, though, I am complying with the mask mandate, with one exception. I went back to the gym for the first time in over a year last week. There were only three other people there (plus one employee), and none of them were wearing masks, so I didn't bother to wear mine. It's hard enough for me to catch my breath doing strenuous exercise without a mask blocking my airflow.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 27, 2021, 02:02:10 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 27, 2021, 02:02:10 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 26, 2021, 08:33:26 PM
I'm also curious as to how many people will continue to wear masks when governmental mandates expire or are lifted, and how many people will continue to avoid activities such as eating in restaurants or attending events like movies, concerts, or ballgames. I know we have at least one person who has expressed an extreme reluctance to stay in a hotel/motel.
I'll wear them when required and I'll wear a mask from now on if I get a cold or something and have to run an errand. I don't want to get others sick. I probably won't be going to the movies anytime soon (I went rarely pre-Covid), but most of those other things are outside which I will not be concerned with not wearing a mask now that I'm vaccinated. There's still plenty of distancing requirements here anyway.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 09:43:14 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 09:43:14 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 11:23:05 PMMassachusetts will likely be on of the last states to drop the mask mandate.Quote from: Duke87 on April 26, 2021, 11:11:39 PM
My general sentiment is that once two weeks have passed since shot 2, covid is no longer my problem, and I will be willing to do anything I'd normally do. At least provided the venue/jurisdiction doesn't have rules in place that make it unappealing (I have for example seen venues that still want a negative test produced to enter even if you're fully vaccinated. No thanks, my business is going elsewhere).
That said, I will continue wearing a mask to the grocery store and what have you for as long as it remains required... begrudgingly.
This is kind of where I'm at. As I've said before, at a certain point the restrictions are going to have to end and everyone who can't get it will have to quarantine, and everyone who won't get it will have to suffer the consequences of their decision. I don't think it's fair to have restrictions going on and on because we haven't hit some target percentage of the population with the vaccine, while we have it available to everyone in the state to roll up and get it whenever they like.
I am looking forward to my local mask mandate ending on June 1st because I'm kind of sick of having to deal with my glasses fogging up and falling off because the straps make them slide off my ears. Until then, though, I am complying with the mask mandate, with one exception. I went back to the gym for the first time in over a year last week. There were only three other people there (plus one employee), and none of them were wearing masks, so I didn't bother to wear mine. It's hard enough for me to catch my breath doing strenuous exercise without a mask blocking my airflow.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 27, 2021, 12:07:12 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 27, 2021, 12:07:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 11:23:05 PMQuote from: Duke87 on April 26, 2021, 11:11:39 PM
My general sentiment is that once two weeks have passed since shot 2, covid is no longer my problem, and I will be willing to do anything I'd normally do. At least provided the venue/jurisdiction doesn't have rules in place that make it unappealing (I have for example seen venues that still want a negative test produced to enter even if you're fully vaccinated. No thanks, my business is going elsewhere).
That said, I will continue wearing a mask to the grocery store and what have you for as long as it remains required... begrudgingly.
This is kind of where I'm at. As I've said before, at a certain point the restrictions are going to have to end and everyone who can't get it will have to quarantine, and everyone who won't get it will have to suffer the consequences of their decision. I don't think it's fair to have restrictions going on and on because we haven't hit some target percentage of the population with the vaccine, while we have it available to everyone in the state to roll up and get it whenever they like.
I am looking forward to my local mask mandate ending on June 1st because I'm kind of sick of having to deal with my glasses fogging up and falling off because the straps make them slide off my ears. Until then, though, I am complying with the mask mandate, with one exception. I went back to the gym for the first time in over a year last week. There were only three other people there (plus one employee), and none of them were wearing masks, so I didn't bother to wear mine. It's hard enough for me to catch my breath doing strenuous exercise without a mask blocking my airflow.
Similar here. I haven't worn a mask since about a week after the mandate was lifted here–and I only wore it then because I had been in not-close contact with someone who had COVID but didn't realize it. I can't think of a single person in my office building still wearing a mask, including the lady I share an office with who has been very cautious the whole time for more than one reason; she hasn't worn hers since her second shot either.
Every Sunday at church, there are fewer and fewer people wearing masks, and I assume it's because there are more and more people fully vaccinated. This is actually keeping a good friend of ours away from church, because she has had a great deal of anxiety during the pandemic–which is not helped at all by the fact that when, she got the virus back in the summer, she ended up using an inhaler for a month. Basically, until the CDC says fully vaccinated people can stop wearing masks, she won't go somewhere there are vaccinated people not wearing masks. Another good friend from church has substitute-taught for her recently, and he said the entire first page of instructions was about sanitization.
Really, I only wear a mask anymore if I'm out grocery shopping. It's to the point that I'm starting to forget grabbing it when I leave again.
My kids still wear their masks faithfully everywhere outside of our house or our friends' houses, even in contexts where they're literally the only ones wearing one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 12:12:15 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 12:12:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2021, 12:07:12 PMMask wearing is not needed in my opinion if most, if not all of the people in the gathering are fully vaccinated (or are kids who are very low risk).Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 11:23:05 PMQuote from: Duke87 on April 26, 2021, 11:11:39 PM
My general sentiment is that once two weeks have passed since shot 2, covid is no longer my problem, and I will be willing to do anything I'd normally do. At least provided the venue/jurisdiction doesn't have rules in place that make it unappealing (I have for example seen venues that still want a negative test produced to enter even if you're fully vaccinated. No thanks, my business is going elsewhere).
That said, I will continue wearing a mask to the grocery store and what have you for as long as it remains required... begrudgingly.
This is kind of where I'm at. As I've said before, at a certain point the restrictions are going to have to end and everyone who can't get it will have to quarantine, and everyone who won't get it will have to suffer the consequences of their decision. I don't think it's fair to have restrictions going on and on because we haven't hit some target percentage of the population with the vaccine, while we have it available to everyone in the state to roll up and get it whenever they like.
I am looking forward to my local mask mandate ending on June 1st because I'm kind of sick of having to deal with my glasses fogging up and falling off because the straps make them slide off my ears. Until then, though, I am complying with the mask mandate, with one exception. I went back to the gym for the first time in over a year last week. There were only three other people there (plus one employee), and none of them were wearing masks, so I didn't bother to wear mine. It's hard enough for me to catch my breath doing strenuous exercise without a mask blocking my airflow.
Similar here. I haven't worn a mask since about a week after the mandate was lifted here–and I only wore it then because I had been in not-close contact with someone who had COVID but didn't realize it. I can't think of a single person in my office building still wearing a mask, including the lady I share an office with who has been very cautious the whole time for more than one reason; she hasn't worn hers since her second shot either.
Every Sunday at church, there are fewer and fewer people wearing masks, and I assume it's because there are more and more people fully vaccinated. This is actually keeping a good friend of ours away from church, because she has had a great deal of anxiety during the pandemic–which is not helped at all by the fact that when, she got the virus back in the summer, she ended up using an inhaler for a month. Basically, until the CDC says fully vaccinated people can stop wearing masks, she won't go somewhere there are vaccinated people not wearing masks. Another good friend from church has substitute-taught for her recently, and he said the entire first page of instructions was about sanitization.
Really, I only wear a mask anymore if I'm out grocery shopping. It's to the point that I'm starting to forget grabbing it when I leave again.
My kids still wear their masks faithfully everywhere outside of our house or our friends' houses, even in contexts where they're literally the only ones wearing one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on April 27, 2021, 12:22:48 PM
Post by: SectorZ on April 27, 2021, 12:22:48 PM
So much for this thread being about vaccines anymore...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on April 27, 2021, 12:23:33 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on April 27, 2021, 12:23:33 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 27, 2021, 12:22:48 PM
So much for this thread being about vaccines anymore...
The other thread was supposed to have a temporary lock, not a permanent lock. They forgot to unlock it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on April 27, 2021, 12:38:01 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on April 27, 2021, 12:38:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2021, 10:26:53 PMI think I mentioned this in the coronavirus thread, but I believe my family and I had COVID in February 2020. Had a fever, nasty coughing, and bronchitis. What's more, one of my parents went to the doctor about it, and a lot of other people there had similar symptoms. Plus the doctors were confused because they were giving out strep and influenza tests to everybody and they were coming back negative. The diagnosis was "bronchitis". One of my mom's cousins is a nurse, and based on the descriptions of our symptoms she believes we had COVID. It makes sense how it could've been transmitted: someone from Wuhan has a layover at IAH in January, spreads it to someone else there, then that person goes home from the airport to my area, spreads it to me.Quote from: Ketchup99 on April 26, 2021, 10:20:50 PM
Why do you think you had it in December of 2019? We probably had fewer than 100 US cases by then.
Plenty of dead in California from late 2019 have been found to have COVID during autopsies. I was sick for about a month with pretty much every classic COVID symptom. Many symptoms like a lack of appetite, a loss of taste and a dry cough that wouldn't go away were things I never have experienced in any flu. I also ended up losing 20 pounds during that month and my doctor couldn't diagnose what was wrong with me. The way it was phrased by him was "unknown viral infection."
It might interest you to look into some of the evidence regarding COVID being present in the United States months before the outbreak in Wuhan. There is a lot of evidence for it at this point, especially on the West Coast.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 27, 2021, 01:14:15 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 27, 2021, 01:14:15 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 27, 2021, 12:22:48 PM
So much for this thread being about vaccines anymore...
Yeah, I'd like to get back on topic too.
The problem is that our vaccination status may very well influence our mask behavior, so they're related subjects.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 27, 2021, 01:30:32 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 27, 2021, 01:30:32 PM
Before the pandemic arrived, we had a presumption that it was reasonable to go out in public, including in indoor spaces, without a mask or social distancing. That is now gone. Vaccination is part of the way to getting it back, but not all of it. At this point, it is just not worth it for me to go out in public indoors spaces without a mask (even in settings where I can be sure everyone else has been vaccinated) if I am going to get looks or be asked to justify myself.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: US 89 on April 27, 2021, 05:33:52 PM
Post by: US 89 on April 27, 2021, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: US 89 on April 26, 2021, 10:10:43 PM
Got my second dose of Pfizer today.
Hopefully I don't get any side effects.
Update: I woke up in the middle of the night to chills, aches, and a fever of 100.5, about 12 hours after my second Pfizer dose. I took a Tylenol and it went away after a few hours. Fever has not come back but I've definitely felt tired/not exactly normal for most of today.
This is almost the exact same progression that my dad had with his second Pfizer dose a month ago. Wonder if there's a genetic component to it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 05:41:55 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: US 89 on April 27, 2021, 05:33:52 PMMost people have similar symptoms.Quote from: US 89 on April 26, 2021, 10:10:43 PM
Got my second dose of Pfizer today.
Hopefully I don't get any side effects.
Update: I woke up in the middle of the night to chills, aches, and a fever of 100.5, about 12 hours after my second Pfizer dose. I took a Tylenol and it went away after a few hours. Fever has not come back but I've definitely felt tired/not exactly normal for most of today.
This is almost the exact same progression that my dad had with his second Pfizer dose a month ago. Wonder if there's a genetic component to it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 28, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on April 28, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
A study just came out of the UK indicating that people with one dose of the vaccine who contract COVID are about 40% less likely to transmit it - logically (although we'll soon find out), that could hit 60-70% with two doses. We also know that someone with two shots has around a 90% reduced chance of contracting asymptomatic or symptomatic COVID to begin with. Combining these, you've reduced someone's odds by 96 to 97% of contracting the virus and spreading it to someone else. If fully vaccinated people have almost no risk of spreading or getting sick, I feel like we're doing more damage to the vaccination effort by saying "hey, thanks for getting a shot, now don't change your behavior." Vaccination, with numbers like these, should absolutely be the ticket back to normal life.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 28, 2021, 11:03:22 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 28, 2021, 11:03:22 PM
The college that I will be attending this Fall, UMass Amherst, will be requiring the vaccine, as will all other Massachusetts state schools.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kevinb1994 on April 28, 2021, 11:10:35 PM
Post by: kevinb1994 on April 28, 2021, 11:10:35 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 28, 2021, 11:03:22 PMCongratulations! Good luck.
The college that I will be attending this Fall, UMass Amherst, will be requiring the vaccine, as will all other Massachusetts state schools.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on April 28, 2021, 11:22:16 PM
Post by: kkt on April 28, 2021, 11:22:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 28, 2021, 11:03:22 PM
The college that I will be attending this Fall, UMass Amherst, will be requiring the vaccine, as will all other Massachusetts state schools.
Congratulations! They're a good school.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2021, 11:53:04 PM
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2021, 11:53:04 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 28, 2021, 11:03:22 PMCongrats. I went to grad school there.
The college that I will be attending this Fall, UMass Amherst, will be requiring the vaccine, as will all other Massachusetts state schools.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 29, 2021, 12:11:23 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 29, 2021, 12:11:23 PM
Got my first Moderna this morning. My arm was sore for 10 minutes, but now all I feel is the bandage. I expect some side effects to surface later.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 29, 2021, 12:25:16 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 29, 2021, 12:25:16 PM
I guess I'm legit now that two weeks have passed since vaccine number two.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on April 29, 2021, 12:39:44 PM
Post by: jakeroot on April 29, 2021, 12:39:44 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 29, 2021, 12:11:23 PM
Got my first Moderna this morning. My arm was sore for 10 minutes, but now all I feel is the bandage. I expect some side effects to surface later.
Was it sore immediately after the jab, or later on? I recall that most people feel sore in the arm, but that it's usually an hour-plus later, not necessarily right away.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on April 29, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on April 29, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
I've heard that the younger you are, the stronger the side effects you'll likely experience from the Pfizer vaccine. That seems to be borne out in my experience. My mom, who is in her 70s, had no side effects whatsoever. My wife is a few years older than I am and didn't really notice much either other than arm soreness. I'm in my late 40s and the day after the shot I had a headache that felt like what I imagine a concussion feels like (the only concussion I know I've ever had was when I was 7, so I don't really recall) and then I got intense chills and had to take a three-hour nap. A colleague of mine who is 30 years old got her second shot on Tuesday and sent us a message Wednesday morning to say she couldn't function due to a fever and chills; she had woken up in the middle of the night feeling horrible and it just got worse from there. But today she feels OK.
It's interesting to me to note that not only were her side effects more intense than mine, they also hit her more quickly. My brother theorizes that younger people generally have stronger immune systems that therefore generate stronger side effects. If that's true, it makes me wonder how severe the side effects will be for people in their teens.
It's interesting to me to note that not only were her side effects more intense than mine, they also hit her more quickly. My brother theorizes that younger people generally have stronger immune systems that therefore generate stronger side effects. If that's true, it makes me wonder how severe the side effects will be for people in their teens.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 01:36:59 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 01:36:59 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 29, 2021, 12:25:16 PM
I guess I'm legit now that two weeks have passed since vaccine number two.
My 'legit' time is tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 29, 2021, 02:06:23 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 29, 2021, 02:06:23 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2021, 12:39:44 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 29, 2021, 12:11:23 PM
Got my first Moderna this morning. My arm was sore for 10 minutes, but now all I feel is the bandage. I expect some side effects to surface later.
Was it sore immediately after the jab, or later on? I recall that most people feel sore in the arm, but that it's usually an hour-plus later, not necessarily right away.
It was sore immediately, then mostly faded. It's been about 2 1/2 hours now.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 29, 2021, 02:15:32 PM
Post by: cl94 on April 29, 2021, 02:15:32 PM
Shot 2 of Pfizer was about 3.5 hours ago. A little sore in the arm, but nothing else yet.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Post by: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 29, 2021, 02:06:23 PMQuote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2021, 12:39:44 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 29, 2021, 12:11:23 PM
Got my first Moderna this morning. My arm was sore for 10 minutes, but now all I feel is the bandage. I expect some side effects to surface later.
Was it sore immediately after the jab, or later on? I recall that most people feel sore in the arm, but that it's usually an hour-plus later, not necessarily right away.
It was sore immediately, then mostly faded. It's been about 2 1/2 hours now.
Don't be surprised if it resurfaces in the next 1-2 days. That's not to sound pessimistic, but just to concur with jakeroot that almost all the reports I've heard of sore arms have been 1-2 days later.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 29, 2021, 02:35:42 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 29, 2021, 02:35:42 PM
I spent much of my fifteen minutes after the second shot windmilling my left arm, and I think that helped with soreness, which was not as bad as it was after the first shot. I also took pains to stay hydrated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 03:29:40 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 03:29:40 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 29, 2021, 02:35:42 PM
I spent much of my fifteen minutes after the second shot windmilling my left arm, and I think that helped with soreness, which was not as bad as it was after the first shot. I also took pains to stay hydrated.
Soreness wasn't as bad with my second as it was with my first. Side-effects, on the other hand...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 29, 2021, 06:02:09 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on April 29, 2021, 06:02:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 03:29:40 PMSoreness wasn't as bad with my second as it was with my first. Side-effects, on the other hand...
In terms of systemic adverse reactions, I do feel lucky to have gotten away with no more than a headache following the second shot. For Moderna in my age group, other possibilities included (percentage prevalences after first and second shots in parentheses): fatigue (38%/68%), muscle pain (24%/62%), joint pain (17%/46%), chills (9%/49%), nausea/vomiting (9%/21%), and fever (1%/17%).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 06:09:44 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 06:09:44 PM
I heard that drinking water helps with second-dose side effects.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:16:42 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:16:42 PM
By this point in life, I've come to realize that drinking water helps with pretty much anything health-related.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 06:24:38 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 06:24:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:16:42 PMI drink a lot of water normally and it helps me feel better a lot of the time.
By this point in life, I've come to realize that drinking water helps with pretty much anything health-related.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 06:36:57 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 06:36:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:16:42 PM
By this point in life, I've come to realize that drinking water helps with pretty much anything health-related.
not drowning
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 06:36:57 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:16:42 PM
By this point in life, I've come to realize that drinking water helps with pretty much anything health-related.
not drowning
You're on a roll today, aren't you?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 06:52:42 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 06:52:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:38:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 06:36:57 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:16:42 PM
By this point in life, I've come to realize that drinking water helps with pretty much anything health-related.
not drowning
You're on a roll today, aren't you?
A little bit, yeah. I should go outside or something...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on April 29, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Post by: kkt on April 29, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 29, 2021, 12:25:16 PM
I guess I'm legit now that two weeks have passed since vaccine number two.
Yay! Congrats!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: cl94 on April 30, 2021, 09:48:09 AM
Post by: cl94 on April 30, 2021, 09:48:09 AM
23 hours in and my only noticeable side effects from Pfizer round 2 have been a sore arm, a headache that comes and goes, and fatigue that may or may not be linked to the vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 30, 2021, 11:26:56 AM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 30, 2021, 11:26:56 AM
I started getting some chills and aches side effects late last night, which subsided by the morning but I still don't feel great. I may be reacting more strongly to the first dose because of my recent bout with COVID, but it's tough to say for sure.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 30, 2021, 12:06:22 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 30, 2021, 12:06:22 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 30, 2021, 09:48:09 AMI'm always fatigued.
23 hours in and my only noticeable side effects from Pfizer round 2 have been a sore arm, a headache that comes and goes, and fatigue that may or may not be linked to the vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on April 30, 2021, 02:44:45 PM
Post by: SectorZ on April 30, 2021, 02:44:45 PM
I got my Pfizer 2 shot noon yesterday. Was fine yesterday. 4 AM today I was not. Spiked up to a 100.3 degree fever, which is probably the first known time I've gone over 100 in 30+ years.
Just feel run down now. Fever gone, sore as hell, minor headache. Small price in my personal worldview to pay for the potential of something that could be a hell of a lot worse.
Just feel run down now. Fever gone, sore as hell, minor headache. Small price in my personal worldview to pay for the potential of something that could be a hell of a lot worse.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: gonealookin on April 30, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
Post by: gonealookin on April 30, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
I get shot #2 of Pfizer on Day 0, plan on resting on Day 1, have to drive 100 miles to Sacramento the afternoon of Day 2 and have an early flight out of SMF the morning of Day 3. I gather I should be OK on that timeline. I've never had any adverse reaction to any vaccine other than a bit of arm soreness.
Granted I'm not waiting two weeks after the second shot to fly, but I recently traveled cross-country before Shot #1 and survived. I did semi-quarantine after returning and got a test several days later to make sure I was clean.
Granted I'm not waiting two weeks after the second shot to fly, but I recently traveled cross-country before Shot #1 and survived. I did semi-quarantine after returning and got a test several days later to make sure I was clean.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 06:57:31 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on April 30, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
I get shot #2 of Pfizer on Day 0, plan on resting on Day 1, have to drive 100 miles to Sacramento the afternoon of Day 2 and have an early flight out of SMF the morning of Day 3. I gather I should be OK on that timeline. I've never had any adverse reaction to any vaccine other than a bit of arm soreness.
I'd never had any adverse reactions to anything since I was like three years old. But shot #2 of Pfizer had me feeling pretty miserable for about 20 hours.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
I think the miserable feeling after the shot isn't technically an "adverse reaction", but rather the desired reaction–the miserable feeling is your body devoting resources toward to building up immunity to the virus, which makes you feel like shit. (Which if you think about it, kind of makes sense–the worst COVID cases were due to the virus causing the immune system to go into hyperdrive and damaging the body, like trying to smash a bug flying around your window with a sledgehammer.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 07:32:21 PM
Post by: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
I think the miserable feeling after the shot isn't technically an "adverse reaction", but rather the desired reaction–the miserable feeling is your body devoting resources toward to building up immunity to the virus, which makes you feel like shit.
Yes, well, I don't know how else to describe it. I actually sometimes refer to it as "getting sick" from the vaccine, because–well, when you have a fever and chills and body aches and trouble breathing, "sick" seems like a rather appropriate word to describe the situation.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 01, 2021, 07:59:53 PM
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 01, 2021, 07:59:53 PM
Got my second COVID shot today at CVS. Afterwards, stopped at Whataburger for a big spicy bacon burger and a interesting Dr. Pepper shake.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:06:23 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:06:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 07:32:21 PMI don't think that people want to call it sick as it might make people less likely to get it.Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
I think the miserable feeling after the shot isn't technically an "adverse reaction", but rather the desired reaction–the miserable feeling is your body devoting resources toward to building up immunity to the virus, which makes you feel like shit.
Yes, well, I don't know how else to describe it. I actually sometimes refer to it as "getting sick" from the vaccine, because–well, when you have a fever and chills and body aches and trouble breathing, "sick" seems like a rather appropriate word to describe the situation.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:22:37 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:22:37 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:06:23 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 07:32:21 PMI don't think that people want to call it sick as it might make people less likely to get it.Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
I think the miserable feeling after the shot isn't technically an "adverse reaction", but rather the desired reaction–the miserable feeling is your body devoting resources toward to building up immunity to the virus, which makes you feel like shit.
Yes, well, I don't know how else to describe it. I actually sometimes refer to it as "getting sick" from the vaccine, because–well, when you have a fever and chills and body aches and trouble breathing, "sick" seems like a rather appropriate word to describe the situation.
I was hoping to call in sick, I was disappointed that I felt fine with all the hype leading into both my shots.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:28:59 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:28:59 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:22:37 PMI have a test the day after my second dose. I don't know if I want side effects or not.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:06:23 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 07:32:21 PMI don't think that people want to call it sick as it might make people less likely to get it.Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
I think the miserable feeling after the shot isn't technically an "adverse reaction", but rather the desired reaction–the miserable feeling is your body devoting resources toward to building up immunity to the virus, which makes you feel like shit.
Yes, well, I don't know how else to describe it. I actually sometimes refer to it as "getting sick" from the vaccine, because–well, when you have a fever and chills and body aches and trouble breathing, "sick" seems like a rather appropriate word to describe the situation.
I was hoping to call in sick, I was disappointed that I felt fine with all the hype leading into both my shots.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on May 01, 2021, 08:34:55 PM
Post by: SectorZ on May 01, 2021, 08:34:55 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:28:59 PM
I have a test the day after my second dose. I don't know if I want side effects or not.
I imagine your teacher would be fine with deferring your test if you feel like hell that day. It's such a common issue that you're not going to be questioned over it. Between all the covid positives in the first place they must have some plan to deal with the bevy of absences this year.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 01, 2021, 08:37:13 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 01, 2021, 08:37:13 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on May 01, 2021, 08:34:55 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:28:59 PM
I have a test the day after my second dose. I don't know if I want side effects or not.
I imagine your teacher would be fine with deferring your test if you feel like hell that day. It's such a common issue that you're not going to be questioned over it. Between all the covid positives in the first place they must have some plan to deal with the bevy of absences this year.
AP tests can't be delayed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:37:56 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:37:56 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:28:59 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:22:37 PMI have a test the day after my second dose. I don't know if I want side effects or not.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:06:23 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 07:32:21 PMI don't think that people want to call it sick as it might make people less likely to get it.Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
I think the miserable feeling after the shot isn't technically an "adverse reaction", but rather the desired reaction–the miserable feeling is your body devoting resources toward to building up immunity to the virus, which makes you feel like shit.
Yes, well, I don't know how else to describe it. I actually sometimes refer to it as "getting sick" from the vaccine, because–well, when you have a fever and chills and body aches and trouble breathing, "sick" seems like a rather appropriate word to describe the situation.
I was hoping to call in sick, I was disappointed that I felt fine with all the hype leading into both my shots.
For context, I have over 700 hours of unused sick leave. I didn't use a single hour of it during all of 2020 because I didn't feel sickly. I wish that I could use it just because I want a day off now and then.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Mapmikey on May 01, 2021, 08:42:28 PM
Post by: Mapmikey on May 01, 2021, 08:42:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:37:56 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:28:59 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:22:37 PMI have a test the day after my second dose. I don't know if I want side effects or not.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:06:23 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 07:32:21 PMI don't think that people want to call it sick as it might make people less likely to get it.Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
I think the miserable feeling after the shot isn't technically an "adverse reaction", but rather the desired reaction–the miserable feeling is your body devoting resources toward to building up immunity to the virus, which makes you feel like shit.
Yes, well, I don't know how else to describe it. I actually sometimes refer to it as "getting sick" from the vaccine, because–well, when you have a fever and chills and body aches and trouble breathing, "sick" seems like a rather appropriate word to describe the situation.
I was hoping to call in sick, I was disappointed that I felt fine with all the hype leading into both my shots.
For context, I have over 700 hours of unused sick leave. I didn't use a single hour of it during all of 2020 because I didn't feel sickly. I wish that I could use it just because I want a day off now and then.
Are you able to get anything for unused sick leave when you leave employment (like civil service will add it to years of service credit if you retire as a fed)?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:43:34 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:43:34 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 01, 2021, 08:37:13 PMIt's not an AP test. It's a final (in an AP class, which is annoying but whatever). He's letting us take it later if we need to.Quote from: SectorZ on May 01, 2021, 08:34:55 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:28:59 PM
I have a test the day after my second dose. I don't know if I want side effects or not.
I imagine your teacher would be fine with deferring your test if you feel like hell that day. It's such a common issue that you're not going to be questioned over it. Between all the covid positives in the first place they must have some plan to deal with the bevy of absences this year.
AP tests can't be delayed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:43:53 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:43:53 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 01, 2021, 08:42:28 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:37:56 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:28:59 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2021, 08:22:37 PMI have a test the day after my second dose. I don't know if I want side effects or not.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 01, 2021, 08:06:23 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 07:32:21 PMI don't think that people want to call it sick as it might make people less likely to get it.Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2021, 07:24:01 PM
I think the miserable feeling after the shot isn't technically an "adverse reaction", but rather the desired reaction–the miserable feeling is your body devoting resources toward to building up immunity to the virus, which makes you feel like shit.
Yes, well, I don't know how else to describe it. I actually sometimes refer to it as "getting sick" from the vaccine, because–well, when you have a fever and chills and body aches and trouble breathing, "sick" seems like a rather appropriate word to describe the situation.
I was hoping to call in sick, I was disappointed that I felt fine with all the hype leading into both my shots.
For context, I have over 700 hours of unused sick leave. I didn't use a single hour of it during all of 2020 because I didn't feel sickly. I wish that I could use it just because I want a day off now and then.
Are you able to get anything for unused sick leave when you leave employment (like civil service will add it to years of service credit if you retire as a fed)?
Yes, I am a Federal Employee so in theory that does work to my benefit if I stick around until retirement.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: wxfree on May 01, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
Post by: wxfree on May 01, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
I got my second dose this week. I had a slight fever that evening and the next day. I was also tired. The day after, I was all better.
I stopped wearing a mask in places where it isn't required a couple of weeks after my first dose. I'll wear it if there's a rule, but if there's no sign and the employees aren't wearing one, I won't, either. Transmission levels are very low in my area. I stopped wearing it where it isn't required because the number of active cases was at a low level and falling, and now daily new cases are in the single digits in my county. In my area if we can keep vaccinating people we should have this just about kicked, until the new variants from India get here. As much as it's spreading there, there must be something awful waiting to get out. I remember one of the mRNA vaccine makers saying they can reprogram their vaccine to address a variant in six weeks. Now would be a nice time for that universal coronavirus vaccine I've been hearing about for years.
I stopped wearing a mask in places where it isn't required a couple of weeks after my first dose. I'll wear it if there's a rule, but if there's no sign and the employees aren't wearing one, I won't, either. Transmission levels are very low in my area. I stopped wearing it where it isn't required because the number of active cases was at a low level and falling, and now daily new cases are in the single digits in my county. In my area if we can keep vaccinating people we should have this just about kicked, until the new variants from India get here. As much as it's spreading there, there must be something awful waiting to get out. I remember one of the mRNA vaccine makers saying they can reprogram their vaccine to address a variant in six weeks. Now would be a nice time for that universal coronavirus vaccine I've been hearing about for years.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on May 02, 2021, 12:16:20 AM
Post by: kkt on May 02, 2021, 12:16:20 AM
Quote from: wxfree on May 01, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
I got my second dose this week. I had a slight fever that evening and the next day. I was also tired. The day after, I was all better.
I stopped wearing a mask in places where it isn't required a couple of weeks after my first dose. I'll wear it if there's a rule, but if there's no sign and the employees aren't wearing one, I won't, either. Transmission levels are very low in my area. I stopped wearing it where it isn't required because the number of active cases was at a low level and falling, and now daily new cases are in the single digits in my county. In my area if we can keep vaccinating people we should have this just about kicked, until the new variants from India get here. As much as it's spreading there, there must be something awful waiting to get out. I remember one of the mRNA vaccine makers saying they can reprogram their vaccine to address a variant in six weeks. Now would be a nice time for that universal coronavirus vaccine I've been hearing about for years.
Number of cases sucks here. Looks like next week we move back to phase 2.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 02, 2021, 12:46:06 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 02, 2021, 12:46:06 AM
Quote from: kkt on May 02, 2021, 12:16:20 AMWhy is Washington doing so bad when most of the country is drastically improving?Quote from: wxfree on May 01, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
I got my second dose this week. I had a slight fever that evening and the next day. I was also tired. The day after, I was all better.
I stopped wearing a mask in places where it isn't required a couple of weeks after my first dose. I'll wear it if there's a rule, but if there's no sign and the employees aren't wearing one, I won't, either. Transmission levels are very low in my area. I stopped wearing it where it isn't required because the number of active cases was at a low level and falling, and now daily new cases are in the single digits in my county. In my area if we can keep vaccinating people we should have this just about kicked, until the new variants from India get here. As much as it's spreading there, there must be something awful waiting to get out. I remember one of the mRNA vaccine makers saying they can reprogram their vaccine to address a variant in six weeks. Now would be a nice time for that universal coronavirus vaccine I've been hearing about for years.
Number of cases sucks here. Looks like next week we move back to phase 2.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: wxfree on May 02, 2021, 01:15:46 AM
Post by: wxfree on May 02, 2021, 01:15:46 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 02, 2021, 12:46:06 AMQuote from: kkt on May 02, 2021, 12:16:20 AMWhy is Washington doing so bad when most of the country is drastically improving?Quote from: wxfree on May 01, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
I got my second dose this week. I had a slight fever that evening and the next day. I was also tired. The day after, I was all better.
I stopped wearing a mask in places where it isn't required a couple of weeks after my first dose. I'll wear it if there's a rule, but if there's no sign and the employees aren't wearing one, I won't, either. Transmission levels are very low in my area. I stopped wearing it where it isn't required because the number of active cases was at a low level and falling, and now daily new cases are in the single digits in my county. In my area if we can keep vaccinating people we should have this just about kicked, until the new variants from India get here. As much as it's spreading there, there must be something awful waiting to get out. I remember one of the mRNA vaccine makers saying they can reprogram their vaccine to address a variant in six weeks. Now would be a nice time for that universal coronavirus vaccine I've been hearing about for years.
Number of cases sucks here. Looks like next week we move back to phase 2.
One of the reasons given for the big outbreak in Michigan that may also apply to Washington is that they did so well at containing earlier outbreaks, which leaves more people vulnerable. The more contagious B.1.1.7 variant is widespread now. It's different enough that the immunity imparted by previous infection by a legacy version is less effective, but any immunity is better than none, and places that contained the outbreak better early on have more people with none. On the Worldometer web site, the total cases per million in Washington is low, the fifth lowest of all states. That leaves them in a bad situation, because we're now at a point where earlier success works to their detriment.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on May 02, 2021, 02:32:38 AM
Post by: Duke87 on May 02, 2021, 02:32:38 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 02, 2021, 12:46:06 AM
Why is Washington doing so bad when most of the country is drastically improving?
They're not. 15 states (and Puerto Rico) currently have higher per-case counts than Washington does.
The difference is that Washington's state government has a far lower risk tolerance than that of most other states, and is reintroducing restrictions under circumstances most other states would shrug at and not deem worrisome.
In other words, it's all politics. Most of the rest of the country has moved on and is working on reopening everything. Washington isn't comfortable with that yet... which isn't all that surprising since they've been one of the most jittery and restriction-happy states from the getgo.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on May 02, 2021, 02:47:14 AM
Post by: kkt on May 02, 2021, 02:47:14 AM
One could argue that embracing death, doing nothing effective to stop it, and even in some states actively preventing others from doing anything to stop it, is politics.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 02, 2021, 09:48:22 AM
Post by: Rothman on May 02, 2021, 09:48:22 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on May 02, 2021, 02:32:38 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 02, 2021, 12:46:06 AM
Why is Washington doing so bad when most of the country is drastically improving?
They're not. 15 states (and Puerto Rico) currently have higher per-case counts than Washington does.
The difference is that Washington's state government has a far lower risk tolerance than that of most other states, and is reintroducing restrictions under circumstances most other states would shrug at and not deem worrisome.
In other words, it's all politics. Most of the rest of the country has moved on and is working on reopening everything. Washington isn't comfortable with that yet... which isn't all that surprising since they've been one of the most jittery and restriction-happy states from the getgo.
So...WA is ranked 34th...still not good.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2021, 09:54:47 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2021, 09:54:47 AM
Didn't Washington have some of the most strict rules also? I seem to recall there was a point in time last year where visiting other households was outright banned.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 02, 2021, 09:55:43 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 02, 2021, 09:55:43 AM
Washington's cases aren't going up. They're remaining flat while most of the country is going down.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on May 02, 2021, 01:09:11 PM
Post by: kkt on May 02, 2021, 01:09:11 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 02, 2021, 09:55:43 AM
Washington's cases aren't going up. They're remaining flat while most of the country is going down.
Um, no. The decision about covid phase is made on a county by county basis. Here's a couple:
King County (Seattle)
https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/daily-summary.aspx
See the positive cases graph on the top right: in early March the 7-day average was about 140 to 160. Now they're up around 340 to 360.
King County population est. for 2019 is 2.253 million.
Pierce County (Tacoma)
https://www.tpchd.org/healthy-people/diseases/covid-19-pierce-county-cases/
They use a 14-day moving average, which was 80 to 90 in mid March and is now around 190.
Pierce County population est. for 2019 is 904K.
Each county health department makes its own covid dashboard. Feel free to google for them yourself if you want more counties...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 02, 2021, 01:33:54 PM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 02, 2021, 01:33:54 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 02, 2021, 01:09:11 PMQuote from: 1 on May 02, 2021, 09:55:43 AM
Washington's cases aren't going up. They're remaining flat while most of the country is going down.
Um, no. The decision about covid phase is made on a county by county basis. Here's a couple:
King County (Seattle)
https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/daily-summary.aspx
See the positive cases graph on the top right: in early March the 7-day average was about 140 to 160. Now they're up around 340 to 360.
King County population est. for 2019 is 2.253 million.
Pierce County (Tacoma)
https://www.tpchd.org/healthy-people/diseases/covid-19-pierce-county-cases/
They use a 14-day moving average, which was 80 to 90 in mid March and is now around 190.
Pierce County population est. for 2019 is 904K.
Each county health department makes its own covid dashboard. Feel free to google for them yourself if you want more counties...
Okay. The New York Times graphic that I'm looking at shows today compared to 14 days ago. It doesn't look farther back than that.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on May 02, 2021, 04:52:24 PM
Post by: Duke87 on May 02, 2021, 04:52:24 PM
Shot 2 obtained.
Now nothing to do but wait out the 2-week buffering period.
Now nothing to do but wait out the 2-week buffering period.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2021, 12:25:55 PM
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2021, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 11:23:05 PM
I went back to the gym for the first time in over a year last week. There were only three other people there (plus one employee), and none of them were wearing masks, so I didn't bother to wear mine. It's hard enough for me to catch my breath doing strenuous exercise without a mask blocking my airflow.
Saturday evening, my wife and I went to the gym for the first time since before COVID. Sometime in February-March of last year, we just kind of stopped going because "other life" got in the way. When we were ready to resume going, things were shut down. After they had opened up again and we were ready to resume going again, COVID cases bad become high in our area and we didn't feel comfortable being around a bunch of strangers who were breathing hard. Now that both of us are fully vaccinated, we decided there was no better time to return.
A couple of thoughts:
1. What once was invigorating is now tiring. Man, we must have been doing a lot of just sitting around this past year.
2. Every other treadmill, stair stepper, elliptical machine, and stationary bike was blocked off for physical distancing–except for one row of them. What's up with that? It didn't make a difference anyway, because the gym is never crowded at the hour we go there. But still, I thought that was weird. On the other hand, it was kind of different using the same kind of machine as my wife but it not being the one right next to hers.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 03, 2021, 01:46:53 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 03, 2021, 01:46:53 PM
https://abc7ny.com/covid-vaccine-india-coronavirus-charges/10572704/
Good news!
Good news!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 12:48:13 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 12:48:13 AM
So Moderna is behind.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on May 04, 2021, 08:42:05 AM
Post by: SectorZ on May 04, 2021, 08:42:05 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 03, 2021, 01:46:53 PM
https://abc7ny.com/covid-vaccine-india-coronavirus-charges/10572704/
Good news!
I want to know if it's really 100% effective or "better than 99.5% effective". Nothing is 100% effective.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 12:48:13 AMModerna isn't even approved for 16-17 yet.
So Moderna is behind.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on May 04, 2021, 10:53:08 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on May 04, 2021, 10:53:08 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 12:48:13 AM
So Moderna is behind.
I'm glad I got Pfizer, then. I'd rather have the injection in my arm.
:bigass:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 11:28:52 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 11:28:52 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 04, 2021, 10:53:08 AMSame hereQuote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 12:48:13 AM
So Moderna is behind.
I'm glad I got Pfizer, then. I'd rather have the injection in my arm.
:bigass:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 04, 2021, 11:50:03 AM
Post by: webny99 on May 04, 2021, 11:50:03 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 11:28:52 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on May 04, 2021, 10:53:08 AMSame hereQuote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 12:48:13 AM
So Moderna is behind.
I'm glad I got Pfizer, then. I'd rather have the injection in my arm.
(https://imgur.com/50DNdGD.jpg)?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 04, 2021, 11:51:49 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 04, 2021, 11:51:49 AM
I don't think that was missing the joke. It still makes perfect sense even with the alternate meaning.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2021, 12:25:55 PMWhat once was invigorating is now tiring. Man, we must have been doing a lot of just sitting around this past year.
I have been thinking of going back to the gym myself, and even though I have been walking at least two miles on a more or less daily basis, I know I will have a mountain to climb to regain the strength and endurance I had back in March 2020 when everything closed. (I have lost a small amount of weight and suspect it is mostly muscle mass.) I am just not sure whether to hazard it now or wait and see what happens with the variants currently in circulation.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:10:26 PM
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:10:26 PM
Are you not fully vaccinated? If so, then wouldn't now be better than later, when it comes to variants?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on May 04, 2021, 01:14:20 PM
Post by: Jim on May 04, 2021, 01:14:20 PM
Re: gyms, I was all ready to go back in the fall shortly after my local Planet Fitness first reopened, then the cases started going up and I decided to wait. I ended up not going back until my "full vaccination" status kicked in in February. I've found it to be really good. People are generally following the rules, it can get busy but I never feel like I am right on top of others like it sometimes was at peak times in the olden days.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bing101 on May 04, 2021, 01:17:21 PM
Post by: bing101 on May 04, 2021, 01:17:21 PM
Taken both shots.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on May 04, 2021, 01:23:12 PM
Post by: 1995hoo on May 04, 2021, 01:23:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 04, 2021, 11:50:03 AMQuote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 11:28:52 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on May 04, 2021, 10:53:08 AMSame hereQuote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 12:48:13 AM
So Moderna is behind.
I'm glad I got Pfizer, then. I'd rather have the injection in my arm.
(https://imgur.com/jznDBXC.jpg)?
I'm seeing an error message.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 04, 2021, 01:24:52 PM
Post by: webny99 on May 04, 2021, 01:24:52 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 04, 2021, 01:23:12 PM
I'm seeing an error message.
Sorry, that is my bad. (I manually deleted the image off my imgur thread instead of just closing the tab.) Fixed.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 01:38:18 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 01:38:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:10:26 PMAre you not fully vaccinated? If so, then wouldn't now be better than later, when it comes to variants?
I had the second shot of Moderna on April 24, so my get-out-of-jail date is this coming Saturday. Variants are an issue because I'd rather not climb the mountain of getting back to where I was in March 2020 only to have to stop if we go back to nonpharmaceutical interventions (masking, stay-at-home orders, etc.) when a vaccine-resistant variant breaks loose.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 01:38:18 PM
I'd rather not climb the mountain of getting back to where I was in March 2020 only to have to stop if we go back to nonpharmaceutical interventions (masking, stay-at-home orders, etc.) when a vaccine-resistant variant breaks loose.
Eek. You sure you're not just rationalizing laziness?
To my way of thinking, #2 below is still better than #3.
1. Get back in shape.
2. Start getting back in shape, then have to cut your progress short later.
3. Don't even start getting back in shape.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:56:03 PM
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:56:03 PM
In a way, it reminds me of the joke about farmers: that the rain is never the right amount. Either it's too much rain or too little, or it came too early or too late. Then, one year, the absolutely perfect amount of rain falls, at just the right time, and what does the farmer have to say? "Yeah, but just wait till next year!"
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jakeroot on May 04, 2021, 02:04:49 PM
Post by: jakeroot on May 04, 2021, 02:04:49 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 01:38:18 PM
when a vaccine-resistant variant breaks loose.
Do you think this is truly a matter of "when" rather than "if"?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 02 Park Ave on May 04, 2021, 02:06:46 PM
Post by: 02 Park Ave on May 04, 2021, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 01:38:18 PMQuote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:10:26 PMAre you not fully vaccinated? If so, then wouldn't now be better than later, when it comes to variants?
I had the second shot of Moderna on April 24, so my get-out-of-jail date is this coming Saturday. Variants are an issue because I'd rather not climb the mountain of getting back to where I was in March 2020 only to have to stop if we go back to nonpharmaceutical interventions (masking, stay-at-home orders, etc.) when a vaccine-resistant variant breaks loose.
Be aware of the BV-1 and B.1.617 variants. They are resistant to antibody neutralization.
Don't forget that this is a perpetual pandemic.
Welcome to the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 02:12:57 PM
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 02:12:57 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 04, 2021, 02:06:46 PM
Welcome to the rest of your life.
People talked for about a year about "getting back to normal". Are they realizing yet that such might not be possible?
I worry that some people haven't yet been able to adjust their state of mind to include the coronavirus being a part of life. I worry that they're going to be stuck in this sort of limbo for far longer than is healthy. They've been hunkering down in their houses, waiting for a green light that may never light up.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 02:32:02 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 02:32:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 02:12:57 PMCovid will never go away, we just need to hope that vaccine boosters can keep up.Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 04, 2021, 02:06:46 PM
Welcome to the rest of your life.
People talked for about a year about "getting back to normal". Are they realizing yet that such might not be possible?
I worry that some people haven't yet been able to adjust their state of mind to include the coronavirus being a part of life. I worry that they're going to be stuck in this sort of limbo for far longer than is healthy. They've been hunkering down in their houses, waiting for a green light that may never light up.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 02:39:39 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 02:32:02 PMWe will work hard to fight it though.Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 02:12:57 PMCovid will never go away, we just need to hope that vaccine boosters can keep up.Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 04, 2021, 02:06:46 PM
Welcome to the rest of your life.
People talked for about a year about "getting back to normal". Are they realizing yet that such might not be possible?
I worry that some people haven't yet been able to adjust their state of mind to include the coronavirus being a part of life. I worry that they're going to be stuck in this sort of limbo for far longer than is healthy. They've been hunkering down in their houses, waiting for a green light that may never light up.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 03:27:06 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 02:39:39 PMWe will. Nobody likes Covid.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 02:32:02 PMWe will work hard to fight it though.Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 02:12:57 PMCovid will never go away, we just need to hope that vaccine boosters can keep up.Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 04, 2021, 02:06:46 PM
Welcome to the rest of your life.
People talked for about a year about "getting back to normal". Are they realizing yet that such might not be possible?
I worry that some people haven't yet been able to adjust their state of mind to include the coronavirus being a part of life. I worry that they're going to be stuck in this sort of limbo for far longer than is healthy. They've been hunkering down in their houses, waiting for a green light that may never light up.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 04:40:11 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 04:40:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:53:27 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 01:38:18 PMI'd rather not climb the mountain of getting back to where I was in March 2020 only to have to stop if we go back to nonpharmaceutical interventions (masking, stay-at-home orders, etc.) when a vaccine-resistant variant breaks loose.
Eek. You sure you're not just rationalizing laziness?
Quite sure. I'm not saying I'm never lazy, but once I get into a routine at the gym, I keep going and don't miss twice.
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 01:53:27 PMTo my way of thinking, #2 below is still better than #3.
1. Get back in shape.
2. Start getting back in shape, then have to cut your progress short later.
3. Don't even start getting back in shape.
I think that analysis makes more sense for an exercise program focused on aerobic conditioning. Resistance training is all I do at the gym, and I increase the load on each set in six- to eight-week steps to minimize the chances of ligament injury. If I'm forced to interrupt for an extended period (say, to wait out a spike in variant cases), I have to start back at zero when I return.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 04, 2021, 02:04:49 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 01:38:18 PMwhen a vaccine-resistant variant breaks loose.
Do you think this is truly a matter of "when" rather than "if"?
For Michigan, not to mention the UK and Europe, it has been a matter of "when"--the latter two are just coming out of lockdowns that began after vaccines were authorized. Admittedly, these decisions were driven by a variant (B.1.1.7) that is not vaccine-resistant and so reflect a problem of timing (spread occurring before vaccines could be rolled out to the bulk of the population), but it is just a short step from that to a vaccine-resistant variant taking off before a booster is available to contain it.
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 02:12:57 PMPeople talked for about a year about "getting back to normal". Are they realizing yet that such might not be possible?
I worry that some people haven't yet been able to adjust their state of mind to include the coronavirus being a part of life. I worry that they're going to be stuck in this sort of limbo for far longer than is healthy. They've been hunkering down in their houses, waiting for a green light that may never light up.
We are barely 17 months into this pandemic and our options for mitigation have been evolving throughout that time, so I think it is premature to make a determination that a return to normal won't be possible.
My own approach, admittedly, has been conservative. We no longer have a general mask mandate in our local area, but that outcome is patently the result of a decision by the Kansas legislature (which has exactly zero epidemiologists) and liability concerns on the part of local governing bodies. As of April 27, the CDC still recommends (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/pdfs/choosingSaferActivities.pdf) masks for vaccinated people in all indoor settings where unvaccinated people may be present (the main advantage of vaccination is a higher safety margin and being able to dispense with social distancing and handwashing).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 04:54:02 PM
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 04:54:02 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 04:40:11 PM
Quite sure. I'm not saying I'm never lazy, but once I get into a routine at the gym, I keep going and don't miss twice.
Hope I didn't offend. I really thought it strange, especially coming from you.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Big John on May 04, 2021, 05:35:49 PM
Post by: Big John on May 04, 2021, 05:35:49 PM
Just got my 2nd Pfizer vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 05:36:30 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 04, 2021, 05:36:30 PM
Quote from: Big John on May 04, 2021, 05:35:49 PMGreat news!
Just got my 2nd Pfizer vaccine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on May 05, 2021, 01:32:30 AM
Post by: J N Winkler on May 05, 2021, 01:32:30 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 04:54:02 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 04:40:11 PMQuite sure. I'm not saying I'm never lazy, but once I get into a routine at the gym, I keep going and don't miss twice.
Hope I didn't offend. I really thought it strange, especially coming from you.
No worries--I wasn't bothered. And for that matter, I haven't given up on the gym. I'm just waiting a while to see how the situation develops.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kphoger on May 05, 2021, 10:04:32 AM
Post by: kphoger on May 05, 2021, 10:04:32 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 05, 2021, 01:32:30 AMQuote from: kphoger on May 04, 2021, 04:54:02 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on May 04, 2021, 04:40:11 PMQuite sure. I'm not saying I'm never lazy, but once I get into a routine at the gym, I keep going and don't miss twice.
Hope I didn't offend. I really thought it strange, especially coming from you.
No worries--I wasn't bothered. And for that matter, I haven't given up on the gym. I'm just waiting a while to see how the situation develops.
Because, you know, you are nothing if not intentional.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 05, 2021, 03:34:30 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 05, 2021, 03:34:30 PM
I got the second dose just right now. :D
Let's see how I feel tomorrow...
Let's see how I feel tomorrow...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PM
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PMI hope they do. Get the vaccine or be forced to never get a college education!Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:42:16 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:42:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PMAgree on that!Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PMI hope they do. Get the vaccine or be forced to never get a college education!Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:44:00 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:44:00 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:42:16 PMI don't supporting putting people in jail or fining them if they don't get it. I do support isolating them from society (for everyone's safety) if they don't get it.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PMAgree on that!Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PMI hope they do. Get the vaccine or be forced to never get a college education!Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:52:03 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:52:03 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:44:00 PMAre you sure fines and jail time should be issued like they have been doing with mask mandates?Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:42:16 PMI don't supporting putting people in jail or fining them if they don't get it. I do support isolating them from society (for everyone's safety) if they don't get it.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PMAgree on that!Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PMI hope they do. Get the vaccine or be forced to never get a college education!Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 08:00:49 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 08:00:49 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:52:03 PMMaybe as a last resort. Isolation should work. Can't get a job without the vaccine, your kids can't go to school without the vaccine...Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:44:00 PMAre you sure fines and jail time should be issued like they have been doing with mask mandates?Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:42:16 PMI don't supporting putting people in jail or fining them if they don't get it. I do support isolating them from society (for everyone's safety) if they don't get it.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PMAgree on that!Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PMI hope they do. Get the vaccine or be forced to never get a college education!Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 08:23:45 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 08:00:49 PMThat leaves elementary schoolers.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:52:03 PMMaybe as a last resort. Isolation should work. Can't get a job without the vaccine, your kids can't go to school without the vaccine...Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:44:00 PMAre you sure fines and jail time should be issued like they have been doing with mask mandates?Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:42:16 PMI don't supporting putting people in jail or fining them if they don't get it. I do support isolating them from society (for everyone's safety) if they don't get it.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PMAgree on that!Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PMI hope they do. Get the vaccine or be forced to never get a college education!Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: wxfree on May 07, 2021, 08:24:10 PM
Post by: wxfree on May 07, 2021, 08:24:10 PM
I remember having to show my little vaccination booklet in order to go to school. I still have it. It has signatures and dates, and some of them have stamps to show they were verified by the public health department. This isn't some new and revolutionary idea. It's how we got to where we are, in this world of so little disease. We can stand a few Jenny McCarthys because we can reach herd immunity without them, but there are so many now that it may set the whole world back. We've had measles outbreaks, but the advantage is that you'll have lifelong immunity, so you still contribute to herd immunity. This new virus isn't like that. You can catch it again, and the more it spreads, the more it mutates, and the more chances it has to get around our vaccines and put everyone in danger again.
If you don't want to be vaccinated, you shouldn't be fined or jailed for it, but you have to home school your kids (the way it was in the old days). When the virus isn't spreading, you can live normally, but when an outbreak starts, you have to stay home. If you can work from home, that's fine, but if you can't, then your employer can fire you for missing work because you're a selfish idiot. You can get a speeding ticket even if you don't harm anyone, because you're putting people in unnecessary danger. You have to be held responsible for your actions. People who choose not to be vaccinated need to be held responsible for that choice when it puts other people in danger. Everyone who has the opportunity to be vaccinated and chooses not to needs to stay home until the virus stops going around.
If you don't want to be vaccinated, you shouldn't be fined or jailed for it, but you have to home school your kids (the way it was in the old days). When the virus isn't spreading, you can live normally, but when an outbreak starts, you have to stay home. If you can work from home, that's fine, but if you can't, then your employer can fire you for missing work because you're a selfish idiot. You can get a speeding ticket even if you don't harm anyone, because you're putting people in unnecessary danger. You have to be held responsible for your actions. People who choose not to be vaccinated need to be held responsible for that choice when it puts other people in danger. Everyone who has the opportunity to be vaccinated and chooses not to needs to stay home until the virus stops going around.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 08:32:31 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 08:32:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 08:23:45 PMWell if your kids are eligible they have to get the vaccine.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 08:00:49 PMThat leaves elementary schoolers.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:52:03 PMMaybe as a last resort. Isolation should work. Can't get a job without the vaccine, your kids can't go to school without the vaccine...Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:44:00 PMAre you sure fines and jail time should be issued like they have been doing with mask mandates?Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:42:16 PMI don't supporting putting people in jail or fining them if they don't get it. I do support isolating them from society (for everyone's safety) if they don't get it.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PMAgree on that!Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PMI hope they do. Get the vaccine or be forced to never get a college education!Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on May 07, 2021, 09:32:47 PM
Post by: hbelkins on May 07, 2021, 09:32:47 PM
I had an appointment with my endocrinologist today. To my surprise, I was not asked if I'd had the shot, or if I wanted it if I hadn't had it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 09:59:37 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 09:59:37 PM
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-governor-says-yankees-mets-give-tickets-fans-who-get-vaccinated-their-2021-05-05/
Fuck the Yankees but :clap:
Fuck the Yankees but :clap:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 07, 2021, 10:03:12 PM
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 07, 2021, 10:03:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 09:59:37 PMWhat did the Damn Yankees ever do to you?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-governor-says-yankees-mets-give-tickets-fans-who-get-vaccinated-their-2021-05-05/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-governor-says-yankees-mets-give-tickets-fans-who-get-vaccinated-their-2021-05-05/)
Fuck the Yankees but :clap:
That being said, this may be a step in the right direction...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 10:08:34 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 10:08:34 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on May 07, 2021, 10:03:12 PMRed Sox fanQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 09:59:37 PMWhat did the Damn Yankees ever do to you?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-governor-says-yankees-mets-give-tickets-fans-who-get-vaccinated-their-2021-05-05/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-governor-says-yankees-mets-give-tickets-fans-who-get-vaccinated-their-2021-05-05/)
Fuck the Yankees but :clap:
That being said, this may be a step in the right direction...
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: kkt on May 08, 2021, 02:17:45 AM
Post by: kkt on May 08, 2021, 02:17:45 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:52:03 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:44:00 PMAre you sure fines and jail time should be issued like they have been doing with mask mandates?Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:42:16 PMI don't supporting putting people in jail or fining them if they don't get it. I do support isolating them from society (for everyone's safety) if they don't get it.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:35:27 PMAgree on that!Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:33:18 PMI hope they do. Get the vaccine or be forced to never get a college education!Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PMIkr but with more mandates they would be forced to work from home (which they have been doing) all day long. And you can expect some schools and universities to remove that as an option.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 07, 2021, 07:31:14 PMAnti-vaxxers will just come up with another excuse.
Pfizer is seeking full FDA approval for their vaccine. Hopefully this would fight hesitancy and we see more vaccine mandates. :clap:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-vaccine-111528517741
Have people actually been fined, much less jailed? I thought it was just a warnings, education, or telling unmasked people to leave response.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:41:49 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:41:49 AM
Theoretically, not wearing a mask indoors in Oklahoma City could get you a $9 fine.
Though they'd only issue the fine if they were fining you for something else already and just tack the mask fine on top of it.
But the very thought! $9! Who can afford $9!
Though they'd only issue the fine if they were fining you for something else already and just tack the mask fine on top of it.
But the very thought! $9! Who can afford $9!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 04:10:30 AM
Post by: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 04:10:30 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:41:49 AMThis is OKC rolling its eyes at the CDC.
Theoretically, not wearing a mask indoors in Oklahoma City could get you a $9 fine.
Though they'd only issue the fine if they were fining you for something else already and just tack the mask fine on top of it.
But the very thought! $9! Who can afford $9!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 04:45:21 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 04:45:21 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 04:10:30 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:41:49 AMThis is OKC rolling its eyes at the CDC.
Theoretically, not wearing a mask indoors in Oklahoma City could get you a $9 fine.
Though they'd only issue the fine if they were fining you for something else already and just tack the mask fine on top of it.
But the very thought! $9! Who can afford $9!
Which is odd, considering the mayor is pretty centrist, at least as far as Oklahoma politicians go.
Maybe there was some sort of bizarre compromise in the city council between the more conservative and more liberal wards. We'll let you have a mask mandate, but the fine has to be a single-digit number.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 07:59:11 AM
Post by: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 07:59:11 AM
anyway, we're hijacking the thread again.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 12:13:48 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 12:13:48 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 07:59:11 AMBy the time we reach herd immunity, it will be locked I'm sure.
anyway, we're hijacking the thread again.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: gonealookin on May 08, 2021, 12:44:16 PM
Post by: gonealookin on May 08, 2021, 12:44:16 PM
To get back to the topic for a moment, I had the second shot of the Pfizer vaccine at 3 p.m. yesterday. I was budgeting for a couch potato day today, but after more than 18 hours I can't say I feel any aftereffects at all, so I'm going about my usual routine including the exercise. I guess it hits everybody differently (unless CVS is giving some placebos. :rolleyes: ).
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:14:33 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 12:13:48 PMQuote from: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 07:59:11 AMBy the time we reach herd immunity, it will be locked I'm sure.
anyway, we're hijacking the thread again.
any time you say "i'm sure" about something getting moderated a certain way it kind of makes me want to do the opposite, just sayin'
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2021, 03:31:39 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2021, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on May 08, 2021, 12:44:16 PM
To get back to the topic for a moment, I had the second shot of the Pfizer vaccine at 3 p.m. yesterday. I was budgeting for a couch potato day today, but after more than 18 hours I can't say I feel any aftereffects at all, so I'm going about my usual routine including the exercise. I guess it hits everybody differently (unless CVS is giving some placebos. :rolleyes: ).
I ran 8 miles and went to the gym the day after both of my shots. I had a sore arm the first time but really nothing the second. My wife was trying to convince me I was groggy the second time because of the shot, but it was a Friday. Friday is usually the end of my cardio week and when I feel the most run down.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 04:27:57 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:14:33 PMTrueQuote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 12:13:48 PMQuote from: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 07:59:11 AMBy the time we reach herd immunity, it will be locked I'm sure.
anyway, we're hijacking the thread again.
any time you say "i'm sure" about something getting moderated a certain way it kind of makes me want to do the opposite, just sayin'
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 04:50:16 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 04:50:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:41:49 AMOnce again, the rich who can pay the fine can do whatever and the poor which can't afford to spend $9 every time get screwed over.
Theoretically, not wearing a mask indoors in Oklahoma City could get you a $9 fine.
Though they'd only issue the fine if they were fining you for something else already and just tack the mask fine on top of it.
But the very thought! $9! Who can afford $9!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2021, 05:02:14 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2021, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 04:50:16 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:41:49 AMOnce again, the rich who can pay the fine can do whatever and the poor which can't afford to spend $9 every time get screwed over.
Theoretically, not wearing a mask indoors in Oklahoma City could get you a $9 fine.
Though they'd only issue the fine if they were fining you for something else already and just tack the mask fine on top of it.
But the very thought! $9! Who can afford $9!
If you can't afford a $9 one time fine you're financial situation probably is beyond dire.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 08, 2021, 05:17:49 PM
Post by: webny99 on May 08, 2021, 05:17:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:14:33 PMQuote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 12:13:48 PMQuote from: SSOWorld on May 08, 2021, 07:59:11 AMBy the time we reach herd immunity, it will be locked I'm sure.
anyway, we're hijacking the thread again.
any time you say "i'm sure" about something getting moderated a certain way it kind of makes me want to do the opposite, just sayin'
So it sounds like this thread will be open for a while then! :biggrin: :cheers:
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 06:34:38 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 06:34:38 PM
Am I the only person who would gladly take the Sinovac vaccine if it were offered here?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 06:35:57 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 04:50:16 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 08, 2021, 03:41:49 AMOnce again, the rich who can pay the fine can do whatever and the poor which can't afford to spend $9 every time get screwed over.
Theoretically, not wearing a mask indoors in Oklahoma City could get you a $9 fine.
Though they'd only issue the fine if they were fining you for something else already and just tack the mask fine on top of it.
But the very thought! $9! Who can afford $9!
And, I mean, you can just wear a mask and not get fined. They are legitimately free in some cases.
That being said, as I mentioned upthread, the fine isn't even being assessed in most cases. If you're not wearing a mask, OCPD isn't going to write you a ticket for just that. You can be asked to leave by the business and OCPD will enforce that if you won't leave. If you're being unruly and commit some other offense and get arrested, they toss the $9 on top of whatever else they charge you with.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 06:45:25 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 06:34:38 PMYeah... yeah, you probably are...
Am I the only person who would gladly take the Sinovac vaccine if it were offered here?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 07:20:30 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 07:20:30 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 06:34:38 PMDo you already have another vaccine?
Am I the only person who would gladly take the Sinovac vaccine if it were offered here?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
Post by: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
Got the second shot yesterday; I'll be all-clear by May 21st. Went on to get a fondue dinner that night and then took the SATs the following morning.
Yes, I'm tired.
Also, what if we injected both vaccines at the same time? Double the immunity, y'all. Use up that unused stock faster.
Yes, I'm tired.
Also, what if we injected both vaccines at the same time? Double the immunity, y'all. Use up that unused stock faster.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 10:17:25 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 10:17:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 07:20:30 PMNo.Quote from: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 06:34:38 PMDo you already have another vaccine?
Am I the only person who would gladly take the Sinovac vaccine if it were offered here?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 10:52:50 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 10:52:50 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 10:17:25 PMIt's fairly easy to get vaccines now, so go get a Pfizer. It's much better than Sinovac.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 07:20:30 PMNo.Quote from: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 06:34:38 PMDo you already have another vaccine?
Am I the only person who would gladly take the Sinovac vaccine if it were offered here?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:00:20 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:00:20 PM
I guess my question is, why Sinovac? Its efficacy seems to be around 67%, and the Seychelles, which have about 60% of their population inoculated with Sinovac, are seeing a new surge. Pfizer, Moderna, and even J&J, by contrast, are all more effective. At this point, I'm not sure why you'd take a J&J, but Pfizer vaccines are 90-95% effective and way better than the Sinovac shot.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 11:05:27 PM
Post by: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 11:05:27 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 10:17:25 PMMaybe he wants access to the Chinese 5G network.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 07:20:30 PMNo.Quote from: CoreySamson on May 08, 2021, 06:34:38 PMDo you already have another vaccine?
Am I the only person who would gladly take the Sinovac vaccine if it were offered here?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:06:53 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:06:53 PM
We offer Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson. They are all better than Sinovac. We are not getting the Sinovac. Hell, I don't even think we even need the AstraZeneca one!
Novavax could seek approval soon after we get results from the phase 3 trials.
Novavax could seek approval soon after we get results from the phase 3 trials.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:11:21 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:11:21 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:06:53 PMAlthough it's dumb that it hasn't been approved, I don't think we need AstraZeneca either. Honestly, at this point, I don't think we need Johnson and Johnson. Pfizer and Moderna are so readily available, and supply is so small an issue at this point, that a ~70% effective vaccine can be removed from the vaccine program in favor of 95% effective shots.
We offer Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson. They are all better than Sinovac. We are not getting the Sinovac. Hell, I don't even think we even need the AstraZeneca one!
Novavax could seek approval soon after we get results from the phase 3 trials.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 11:16:53 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 11:16:53 PM
The problem in America right now is not vaccine supply, it's vaccine demand.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:19:12 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:19:12 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:11:21 PMProbably cause the FDA has seen numerous countries pause the use of it due to the blood clots.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:06:53 PMAlthough it's dumb that it hasn't been approved
We offer Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson. They are all better than Sinovac. We are not getting the Sinovac. Hell, I don't even think we even need the AstraZeneca one!
Novavax could seek approval soon after we get results from the phase 3 trials.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:20:21 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:20:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 11:16:53 PM12-15 year olds getting vaccinated will get a boost for sure.
The problem in America right now is not vaccine supply, it's vaccine demand.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 08, 2021, 11:30:52 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 08, 2021, 11:30:52 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:20:21 PMI do think the reluctant or indignant adults are still a stupefying issue. What brats.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 11:16:53 PM12-15 year olds getting vaccinated will get a boost for sure.
The problem in America right now is not vaccine supply, it's vaccine demand.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: oscar on May 08, 2021, 11:34:20 PM
Post by: oscar on May 08, 2021, 11:34:20 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:11:21 PM
Honestly, at this point, I don't think we need Johnson and Johnson. Pfizer and Moderna are so readily available, and supply is so small an issue at this point, that a ~70% effective vaccine can be removed from the vaccine program in favor of 95% effective shots.
J&J has advantages, that make it popular with some people who might refuse the other vaccines (mainly that it's one-shot), make it easier to provide to populations where super-cold refrigeration isn't practical, and work better for other populations like the homeless and migrant farmworkers who are hard to chase down to get their second shots. I was given a choice between one- and two-dose vaccines, and opted for the latter, but would not criticize the choices of those who got J&J.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:35:54 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:35:54 PM
Quote from: oscar on May 08, 2021, 11:34:20 PMAnd like the Detroit governor declining that one cause it was not as effective.Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:11:21 PM
Honestly, at this point, I don't think we need Johnson and Johnson. Pfizer and Moderna are so readily available, and supply is so small an issue at this point, that a ~70% effective vaccine can be removed from the vaccine program in favor of 95% effective shots.
J&J has advantages, that make it popular with some people who might refuse the other vaccines (mainly that it's one-shot), make it easier to provide to populations where super-cold refrigeration isn't practical, and work better for other populations like the homeless and migrant farmworkers who are hard to chase down to get their second shots. I was given a choice between one- and two-dose vaccines, and opted for the latter, but would not criticize the choices of those who got J&J.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on May 08, 2021, 11:45:10 PM
Post by: vdeane on May 08, 2021, 11:45:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:19:12 PMPlus there are questions about how effective it really is, given the issues in their studies (and more pop up every time they clear up the prior issues). And they're a two-shot vaccine that's only as effective as the single-shot J&J vaccine, so it's basically the worst of both worlds, at least from a patient perspective. Really the only advantage to approving it would be increased supply, but that really isn't an issue right now, at least not here. Better to just give our supply of that one to countries that need it more.Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:11:21 PMProbably cause the FDA has seen numerous countries pause the use of it due to the blood clots.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:06:53 PMAlthough it's dumb that it hasn't been approved
We offer Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson. They are all better than Sinovac. We are not getting the Sinovac. Hell, I don't even think we even need the AstraZeneca one!
Novavax could seek approval soon after we get results from the phase 3 trials.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:50:12 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:50:12 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 08, 2021, 11:45:10 PMLike Africa and India.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:19:12 PMPlus there are questions about how effective it really is, given the issues in their studies (and more pop up every time they clear up the prior issues). And they're a two-shot vaccine that's only as effective as the single-shot J&J vaccine, so it's basically the worst of both worlds, at least from a patient perspective. Really the only advantage to approving it would be increased supply, but that really isn't an issue right now, at least not here. Better to just give our supply of that one to countries that need it more.Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:11:21 PMProbably cause the FDA has seen numerous countries pause the use of it due to the blood clots.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:06:53 PMAlthough it's dumb that it hasn't been approved
We offer Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson. They are all better than Sinovac. We are not getting the Sinovac. Hell, I don't even think we even need the AstraZeneca one!
Novavax could seek approval soon after we get results from the phase 3 trials.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bugo on May 09, 2021, 12:04:59 AM
Post by: bugo on May 09, 2021, 12:04:59 AM
I got both shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The only side effect I felt was a slight soreness in the arm where the shots were given. Other than that, I had zero noticeable effects. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on May 09, 2021, 12:22:37 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on May 09, 2021, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: bugo on May 09, 2021, 12:04:59 AM
I got both shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The only side effect I felt was a slight soreness in the arm where the shots were given. Other than that, I had zero noticeable effects. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Were you able to get both of yours close in to town? I went to Ada for my first dose and Eufaula for my second because it was difficult getting a vaccination slot in the OKC metro at the time I got mine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on May 09, 2021, 01:28:30 AM
Post by: J N Winkler on May 09, 2021, 01:28:30 AM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 08, 2021, 11:00:20 PMI guess my question is, why Sinovac? Its efficacy seems to be around 67%, and the Seychelles, which have about 60% of their population inoculated with Sinovac, are seeing a new surge. Pfizer, Moderna, and even J&J, by contrast, are all more effective. At this point, I'm not sure why you'd take a J&J, but Pfizer vaccines are 90-95% effective and way better than the Sinovac shot.
My personal preference would be for a vaccine with high headline efficacy--Pfizer, Moderna, maybe Sputnik V if it passes the sniff test from the European Medicines Agency or another SRA--but there is a theory that inactivated-virus vaccines like Sinovac, Sinopharm, Covaxin, and so on experience less of a drop in effectiveness against variants because they use the whole virus and so elicit a more comprehensive immune response.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:26:45 PM
Post by: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
Got the second shot yesterday; I'll be all-clear by May 21st. Went on to get a fondue dinner that night and then took the SATs the following morning.
Yes, I'm tired.
Also, what if we injected both vaccines at the same time? Double the immunity, y'all. Use up that unused stock faster.
I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.
Quote from: Rothman on May 08, 2021, 11:30:52 PMQuote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:20:21 PMI do think the reluctant or indignant adults are still a stupefying issue. What brats.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 11:16:53 PM12-15 year olds getting vaccinated will get a boost for sure.
The problem in America right now is not vaccine supply, it's vaccine demand.
Still can't accept that some people think differently than you do?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 02:34:38 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 02:34:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:26:45 PMOh, I accept that. They can think any way they like. They're still wrong and only out of a stubborn ignorance that, in the end, is only causing the unnecessary delay of the re-opening of society.Quote from: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
Got the second shot yesterday; I'll be all-clear by May 21st. Went on to get a fondue dinner that night and then took the SATs the following morning.
Yes, I'm tired.
Also, what if we injected both vaccines at the same time? Double the immunity, y'all. Use up that unused stock faster.
I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.Quote from: Rothman on May 08, 2021, 11:30:52 PMQuote from: tolbs17 on May 08, 2021, 11:20:21 PMI do think the reluctant or indignant adults are still a stupefying issue. What brats.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 08, 2021, 11:16:53 PM12-15 year olds getting vaccinated will get a boost for sure.
The problem in America right now is not vaccine supply, it's vaccine demand.
Still can't accept that some people think differently than you do?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 09, 2021, 04:17:04 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 09, 2021, 04:17:04 PM
It's callous to say, and I feel like a bad person for doing so, but I think the only way that we get herd immunity is for the science-minded folks to get vaccinated and everyone else just needs to have enough of "their" population catch it and we can maybe get up to 75-80%.
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SectorZ on May 09, 2021, 04:44:14 PM
Post by: SectorZ on May 09, 2021, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 09, 2021, 04:17:04 PM
It's callous to say, and I feel like a bad person for doing so, but I think the only way that we get herd immunity is for the science-minded folks to get vaccinated and everyone else just needs to have enough of "their" population catch it and we can maybe get up to 75-80%.
Chris
I'm fine with this.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 05:20:34 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 05:20:34 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:26:45 PMDid they have any symptoms?Quote from: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
Got the second shot yesterday; I'll be all-clear by May 21st. Went on to get a fondue dinner that night and then took the SATs the following morning.
Yes, I'm tired.
Also, what if we injected both vaccines at the same time? Double the immunity, y'all. Use up that unused stock faster.
I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 05:47:35 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 05:47:35 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on May 09, 2021, 04:44:14 PMProblem is that there are already signs that those that have had it will have an immunity that lasts shorter than the vaccinated. Also, those that catch it may not die, but may end up with all sorts of respiratory issues.Quote from: jayhawkco on May 09, 2021, 04:17:04 PM
It's callous to say, and I feel like a bad person for doing so, but I think the only way that we get herd immunity is for the science-minded folks to get vaccinated and everyone else just needs to have enough of "their" population catch it and we can maybe get up to 75-80%.
Chris
I'm fine with this.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on May 09, 2021, 06:00:27 PM
Post by: Scott5114 on May 09, 2021, 06:00:27 PM
Yeah, I definitely wish I would have acquired my initial immunity through a vaccination than actually catching it. I'm more or less back to normal, seven months later, except now I can't stand peanut butter, whereas before I had covid I loved it.
The problem is at some point we have to let those who decided not to get vaccinated live with the consequences of that decision–which might include them catching it–and let the rest of us return to normal. Never-ending social distancing protocols for those that did get vaccinated won't work.
The problem is at some point we have to let those who decided not to get vaccinated live with the consequences of that decision–which might include them catching it–and let the rest of us return to normal. Never-ending social distancing protocols for those that did get vaccinated won't work.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 09, 2021, 06:30:54 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 09, 2021, 06:30:54 PM
https://www.linktv.org/covid-19/jakarta-will-fine-people-who-refuse-covid-19-vaccines-will-it-work
America might do the same
America might do the same
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 09, 2021, 06:30:54 PMCould also apply to that alternative ways to finance road projects thread.
https://www.linktv.org/covid-19/jakarta-will-fine-people-who-refuse-covid-19-vaccines-will-it-work
America might do the same
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 09, 2021, 06:50:10 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 09, 2021, 06:50:10 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 05:47:35 PMQuote from: SectorZ on May 09, 2021, 04:44:14 PMProblem is that there are already signs that those that have had it will have an immunity that lasts shorter than the vaccinated. Also, those that catch it may not die, but may end up with all sorts of respiratory issues.Quote from: jayhawkco on May 09, 2021, 04:17:04 PM
It's callous to say, and I feel like a bad person for doing so, but I think the only way that we get herd immunity is for the science-minded folks to get vaccinated and everyone else just needs to have enough of "their" population catch it and we can maybe get up to 75-80%.
Chris
I'm fine with this.
Then at this point (or in the next two months or so), that's on them. Those of us that have gotten vaccinated have done it not only for ourselves but for others. At some point, if they refuse "the help", then we leave them stranded on the side of the road so to speak.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 06:51:48 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 06:51:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 06:45:36 PMThe South is about to get some good roads.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 09, 2021, 06:30:54 PMCould also apply to that alternative ways to finance road projects thread.
https://www.linktv.org/covid-19/jakarta-will-fine-people-who-refuse-covid-19-vaccines-will-it-work
America might do the same
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on May 09, 2021, 07:09:04 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on May 09, 2021, 07:09:04 PM
At this point, I'm more worried about out-of-control spikes in countries like India than I am about the vaccine-hesitant here in the US, since it is heavy case loads that drive the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:12:27 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:12:27 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 09, 2021, 07:09:04 PMThat's why we need to be sending vaccines to India.
At this point, I'm more worried about out-of-control spikes in countries like India than I am about the vaccine-hesitant here in the US, since it is heavy case loads that drive the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 09, 2021, 07:19:18 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 09, 2021, 07:19:18 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:12:27 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on May 09, 2021, 07:09:04 PMThat's why we need to be sending vaccines to India.
At this point, I'm more worried about out-of-control spikes in countries like India than I am about the vaccine-hesitant here in the US, since it is heavy case loads that drive the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants.
India has also been reluctant to take any other mitigation measures. Vaccines alone won't stop their current disaster.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: CoreySamson on May 09, 2021, 07:20:01 PM
Post by: CoreySamson on May 09, 2021, 07:20:01 PM
Let me explain myself. Personally, the only vaccine I feel comfortable taking right now is the Sinovac (even though it is made in China), simply because it is based off a tried and true method of vaccination (using a dead virus to produce an immune response). The others are relatively new, and we don't exactly know everything about them in the long term. I'm not sure how they would react with my body (as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have some nasty allergies) since my body's never been injected with it before. That being said, I will get one in about 1-2 years once we know more about the side effects of the other vaccines.
I would also prefer that America focus on donating its vaccines to other nations to help those in greatest need. An 80 year old in India needs a vaccine's help more than I do.
I would also prefer that America focus on donating its vaccines to other nations to help those in greatest need. An 80 year old in India needs a vaccine's help more than I do.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:22:39 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:22:39 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 09, 2021, 07:20:01 PMYou could get Johnson and Johnson once you turn 18.
Let me explain myself. Personally, the only vaccine I feel comfortable taking right now is the Sinovac (even though it is made in China), simply because it is based off a tried and true method of vaccination (using a dead virus to produce an immune response). The others are relatively new, and we don't exactly know everything about them in the long term. I'm not sure how they would react with my body (as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have some nasty allergies) since my body's never been injected with it before. That being said, I will get one in about 1-2 years once we know more about the side effects of the other vaccines.
I would also prefer that America focus on donating its vaccines to other nations to help those in greatest need. An 80 year old in India needs a vaccine's help more than I do.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: corco on May 09, 2021, 07:33:45 PM
Post by: corco on May 09, 2021, 07:33:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:26:45 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
Got the second shot yesterday; I'll be all-clear by May 21st. Went on to get a fondue dinner that night and then took the SATs the following morning.
Yes, I'm tired.
Also, what if we injected both vaccines at the same time? Double the immunity, y'all. Use up that unused stock faster.
I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.
Come on, HB, I thought you were a trained journalist - why are you citing "unsourced references" as evidence in a discussion
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: MikeTheActuary on May 09, 2021, 07:56:13 PM
Post by: MikeTheActuary on May 09, 2021, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 09, 2021, 07:20:01 PM
Let me explain myself. Personally, the only vaccine I feel comfortable taking right now is the Sinovac (even though it is made in China), simply because it is based off a tried and true method of vaccination (using a dead virus to produce an immune response). The others are relatively new, and we don't exactly know everything about them in the long term.
Just FYI, the technology behind the Astra-Zenica, Sputnik V, and J&J vaccines has been in use for years, primarily for Ebola vaccines. I'm not aware of any long-term effects having been raised as a concern.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:58:21 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:58:21 PM
Quote from: corco on May 09, 2021, 07:33:45 PMI normally don't really treat anecdotical data as super reliable, but it does prove that it's not impossible to catch it after getting vaccinated. I do wonder, though, if it was less than two weeks after the second shot.Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:26:45 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on May 08, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
Got the second shot yesterday; I'll be all-clear by May 21st. Went on to get a fondue dinner that night and then took the SATs the following morning.
Yes, I'm tired.
Also, what if we injected both vaccines at the same time? Double the immunity, y'all. Use up that unused stock faster.
I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.
Come on, HB, I thought you were a trained journalist - why are you citing "unsourced references" as evidence in a discussion
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 09, 2021, 08:00:24 PM
Post by: webny99 on May 09, 2021, 08:00:24 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 09, 2021, 07:20:01 PM
The others are relatively new, and we don't exactly know everything about them in the long term.
If this was last November or December, then you might have a point. But vaccines don't cause side-effects years down the road. If there were major issues, especially disastrous, large-scale issues, we would already know about them by now.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 08:02:54 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 08:02:54 PM
Even if there is some risk, I think that the Covid disease itself has more well-known and worrying side effects.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Jim on May 09, 2021, 08:17:13 PM
Post by: Jim on May 09, 2021, 08:17:13 PM
I believe that today was the first time my vaccination status, now a little over 3 months past 2nd Pfizer, got me something other than the obvious and most important benefit of greatly reducing my covid risk. I went out to the Syracuse Mets game today and while my daughter still needed to take a rapid test (results at the gate in under 15 minutes), I just had to present my card and ID. When I went to NCAA Hockey tournament games in Albany several weeks ago, NY was still requiring a PCR test even for the vaccinated. I do think it was more than a little silly to enforce masking (pretty much 100% compliance from what I saw, except for those seated) and distancing when every single person in this outdoor venue had to prove vaccination status or get a negative test to gain entry.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 08:20:03 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: Jim on May 09, 2021, 08:17:13 PMAren't 15 minute tests not that reliable?
I believe that today was the first time my vaccination status, now a little over 3 months past 2nd Pfizer, got me something other than the obvious and most important benefit of greatly reducing my covid risk. I went out to the Syracuse Mets game today and while my daughter still needed to take a rapid test (results at the gate in under 15 minutes), I just had to present my card and ID. When I went to NCAA Hockey tournament games in Albany several weeks ago, NY was still requiring a PCR test even for the vaccinated. I do think it was more than a little silly to enforce masking (pretty much 100% compliance from what I saw, except for those seated) and distancing when every single person in this outdoor venue had to prove vaccination status or get a negative test to gain entry.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 09:21:58 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2021, 09:21:58 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 09, 2021, 07:20:01 PMThe experts have tested the vaccines and assured their safety. But, talk to a doctor about your allergy concerns if you want to. I've got two sisters-in-law that were recommended not to take it because of some rare conditions that they have (one has Guillan-Barre). Still, doctors know when exceptions should be made and when it is perfectly safe to get the vaccine.
Let me explain myself. Personally, the only vaccine I feel comfortable taking right now is the Sinovac (even though it is made in China), simply because it is based off a tried and true method of vaccination (using a dead virus to produce an immune response). The others are relatively new, and we don't exactly know everything about them in the long term. I'm not sure how they would react with my body (as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have some nasty allergies) since my body's never been injected with it before. That being said, I will get one in about 1-2 years once we know more about the side effects of the other vaccines.
I would also prefer that America focus on donating its vaccines to other nations to help those in greatest need. An 80 year old in India needs a vaccine's help more than I do.
Google is not a doctor and this idea that non-experts can make informed decisions by surfing the Internet should be added to Aristotle's logical fallacies.
Get thee to a doctor. Otherwise, the decision you're making is hardly an informed one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: dkblake on May 09, 2021, 10:02:02 PM
Post by: dkblake on May 09, 2021, 10:02:02 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:58:21 PM
I normally don't really treat anecdotical data as super reliable, but it does prove that it's not impossible to catch it after getting vaccinated. I do wonder, though, if it was less than two weeks after the second shot.
A 95% effective rate means that, after two weeks after your vaccination, you have a 5% of getting COVID when exposed to it. So yes, people can still get it, there are going to be people who get it, and there are going to be interested parties (journalists, vaccine resisters) who for different reasons want to amplify that.
The point is transmission. If you and your spouse are both vaccinated and you are exposed to COVID, then there's a 5% chance that you get it, a 0.25% chance (1 in 400) that your spouse gets it, a 0.0125% (1 in 8,000) chance a vaccinated person s/he meets gets it, and so forth. Sooner or later math wins and COVID loses.
I just got my second Pfizer dose today. Tired, but otherwise fine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 10:04:23 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 10:04:23 PM
Quote from: dkblake on May 09, 2021, 10:02:02 PMAlso if you get in and are asymptomatic the vaccine still mostly did it's job.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 07:58:21 PM
I normally don't really treat anecdotical data as super reliable, but it does prove that it's not impossible to catch it after getting vaccinated. I do wonder, though, if it was less than two weeks after the second shot.
A 95% effective rate means that, after two weeks after your vaccination, you have a 5% of getting COVID when exposed to it. So yes, people can still get it, there are going to be people who get it, and there are going to be interested parties (journalists, vaccine resisters) who for different reasons want to amplify that.
The point is transmission. If you and your spouse are both vaccinated and you are exposed to COVID, then there's a 5% chance that you get it, a 0.25% chance (1 in 400) that your spouse gets it, a 0.0125% (1 in 8,000) chance a vaccinated person s/he meets gets it, and so forth. Sooner or later math wins and COVID loses.
I just got my second Pfizer dose today. Tired, but otherwise fine.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Ketchup99 on May 09, 2021, 11:11:43 PM
Post by: Ketchup99 on May 09, 2021, 11:11:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:26:45 PMBoth doses of both shots? Four shots total? I'm confused...
I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.
But yes, this will inevitably happen, and CDC stats show that around 6000 people have tested positive after full vaccination. But in that population, we'd expect around 300,000 positive tests without the vaccine, since the vaccines around 95 percent effective. While they aren't perfect, they certainly get close.
The vaccine is like a seatbelt. Can you die in a car crash with a seatbelt on? Sure. Does it make it less likely? Yes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 11:28:01 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 11:28:01 PM
Quote from: Ketchup99 on May 09, 2021, 11:11:43 PMMaybe he met one person who got it after pfizer and one person who got it after moderna.Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:26:45 PMBoth doses of both shots? Four shots total? I'm confused...
I saw an unsourced reference over the weekend about someone who had taken both doses of both the Pfizer and Moderna shots, and still ended up catching it.
But yes, this will inevitably happen, and CDC stats show that around 6000 people have tested positive after full vaccination. But in that population, we'd expect around 300,000 positive tests without the vaccine, since the vaccines around 95 percent effective. While they aren't perfect, they certainly get close.
The vaccine is like a seatbelt. Can you die in a car crash with a seatbelt on? Sure. Does it make it less likely? Yes.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on May 10, 2021, 12:04:06 AM
Post by: Duke87 on May 10, 2021, 12:04:06 AM
Quote from: dkblake on May 09, 2021, 10:02:02 PM
A 95% effective rate means that, after two weeks after your vaccination, you have a 5% of getting COVID when exposed to it.
Nnnn that's actually not quite what it means. What it means is if you are exposed, your risk of getting infected is 5% of what it would be if you were unvaccinated. Since the odds of becoming infected if exposed while unvaccinated are not 100%, the odds while vaccinated are therefore less than 5%.
Or another way of looking at this on a population scale is that we expect to see an infection in a vaccinated person for every 20 infections in unvaccinated people.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:32:23 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:32:23 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on May 10, 2021, 12:04:06 AMI wonder if any hospital data has been released about this.Quote from: dkblake on May 09, 2021, 10:02:02 PM
A 95% effective rate means that, after two weeks after your vaccination, you have a 5% of getting COVID when exposed to it.
Nnnn that's actually not quite what it means. What it means is if you are exposed, your risk of getting infected is 5% of what it would be if you were unvaccinated. Since the odds of becoming infected if exposed while unvaccinated are not 100%, the odds while vaccinated are therefore less than 5%.
Or another way of looking at this on a population scale is that we expect to see an infection in a vaccinated person for every 20 infections in unvaccinated people.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: J N Winkler on May 10, 2021, 01:08:25 PM
Post by: J N Winkler on May 10, 2021, 01:08:25 PM
In regard to headline efficacies of vaccines, the percentage figures quoted are usually for mild cases, which are defined with regard to a continuum that has separate steps for mild, moderate, severe, requiring hospitalization, and fatal. As an example, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have quoted efficacies of 95% and 94% respectively but are considered 100% effective at preventing death. (They aren't actually quite 100% because among the millions that have received them, there have been a dozen or so who died of covid contracted after they would have been considered fully vaccinated.)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 10, 2021, 01:08:25 PM
In regard to headline efficacies of vaccines, the percentage figures quoted are usually for mild cases, which are defined with regard to a continuum that has separate steps for mild, moderate, severe, requiring hospitalization, and fatal. As an example, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have quoted efficacies of 95% and 94% respectively but are considered 100% effective at preventing death. (They aren't actually quite 100% because among the millions that have received them, there have been a dozen or so who died of covid contracted after they would have been considered fully vaccinated.)
Which I think is an important distinction. If nothing else, hey, if you take it, you have an effective 0% chance of dying. Especially for the boomer-aged, vaccine-hesitant crowd.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 01:40:49 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 01:40:49 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 10, 2021, 01:37:12 PMDon't get it. Do some people want to die? Covid isn't the most deadly thing, but it can kill.Quote from: J N Winkler on May 10, 2021, 01:08:25 PM
In regard to headline efficacies of vaccines, the percentage figures quoted are usually for mild cases, which are defined with regard to a continuum that has separate steps for mild, moderate, severe, requiring hospitalization, and fatal. As an example, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have quoted efficacies of 95% and 94% respectively but are considered 100% effective at preventing death. (They aren't actually quite 100% because among the millions that have received them, there have been a dozen or so who died of covid contracted after they would have been considered fully vaccinated.)
Which I think is an important distinction. If nothing else, hey, if you take it, you have an effective 0% chance of dying. Especially for the boomer-aged, vaccine-hesitant crowd.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2021, 01:45:06 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2021, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 01:40:49 PMQuote from: jayhawkco on May 10, 2021, 01:37:12 PMDon't get it. Do some people want to die? Covid isn't the most deadly thing, but it can kill.Quote from: J N Winkler on May 10, 2021, 01:08:25 PM
In regard to headline efficacies of vaccines, the percentage figures quoted are usually for mild cases, which are defined with regard to a continuum that has separate steps for mild, moderate, severe, requiring hospitalization, and fatal. As an example, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have quoted efficacies of 95% and 94% respectively but are considered 100% effective at preventing death. (They aren't actually quite 100% because among the millions that have received them, there have been a dozen or so who died of covid contracted after they would have been considered fully vaccinated.)
Which I think is an important distinction. If nothing else, hey, if you take it, you have an effective 0% chance of dying. Especially for the boomer-aged, vaccine-hesitant crowd.
Chris
I mean, I understand the people that are using probability to make their decision. There's a non-zero chance I can die of the flu every year, including if I get a vaccine. But before Covid, I never got the flu vaccine because I didn't understand that it "wasn't about me". I just figured there's x percent chance I get it and y percent chance that I die from it and y is a very, very small number as an active, fit, 30-something. If people don't want to get the Covid vaccine because they think there's such a small chance of them dying from Covid that it doesn't matter, I at least understand the logic (because there's actually logic there). Those that don't want to get it "just 'cuz" or because they think Jeff Bezos is implanting them with nanochips, those are the people I want to shake. But either way, it's not about the person getting the vaccine, it's about others that are going to be less likely to be infected because more and more people are vaccinated.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PM
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:55:28 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:55:28 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMMaybe she will get it after full FDA approval.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 07:47:51 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 07:47:51 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Just because someone doesn't want a vaccine doesn't automatically make them an anti-vaxer. My wife is hesitant too (given she wants to get pregnant) and definitely isn't an anti-vaxer. Some people are just more cautious than others even when you give them evidence/encouragement you think ought to change their mind.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 08:11:01 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 08:11:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 07:47:51 PMActually, vaccine-hesitant.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Just because someone doesn't want a vaccine doesn't automatically make them an anti-vaxer. My wife is hesitant too (given she wants to get pregnant) and definitely isn't an anti-vaxer. Some people are just more cautious than others even when you give them evidence/encouragement you think ought to change their mind.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 08:11:37 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMWill do.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 08:16:48 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 08:16:48 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMHence why I called them brats. "Science, public health departments and half the population are going ahead and getting vaccinated, but I am going to sit here and make everyone pay attention to me as long as I can like a third-grader waiting to pick the first person to be on their team." The game can't begin until they do and everyone is tired of the wait.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 08:19:46 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 08:19:46 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/no-evidence-pfizer-vaccine-update-variants-5433235-May2021/
Good news!
Good news!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 08:52:57 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 08:52:57 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 08:19:46 PMFuck yeah.
https://www.thejournal.ie/no-evidence-pfizer-vaccine-update-variants-5433235-May2021/
Good news!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:00:31 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:00:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 08:52:57 PMFuck you covid.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 08:19:46 PMFuck yeah.
https://www.thejournal.ie/no-evidence-pfizer-vaccine-update-variants-5433235-May2021/
Good news!
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:01:28 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:01:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 08:16:48 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMHence why I called them brats. "Science, public health departments and half the population are going ahead and getting vaccinated, but I am going to sit here and make everyone pay attention to me as long as I can like a third-grader waiting to pick the first person to be on their team." The game can't begin until they do and everyone is tired of the wait.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
But here's the thing, being antagonist towards people on the fence about vaccination does more to push them away than encourage them (subjective opinion from first hand observations). In the case of Tolbs and his sister that's a literal captive audience who really ultimately doesn't have a say because she's a child. Conversely when people get on my wife's case about vaccines I can see the level of annoyance just compounding over time. She definitely isn't being encouraged by people trying to guilt her into doing something she isn't ready to do (myself included). I suspect that a lot of people who are equally on the fence feel the same way and only get discouraged by people giving the riot act on vaccines. All this "social encouragement" stuff throughout COVID has really just fallen flat on it's face from the word go.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
What motivates neutral people probably is completely subjective when it comes to vaccines. I don't particularly "fear COVID" nor really have a strong feeling about it as a social cause myself. I've been exposed to people every single day since this all lockdown and pandemic stuff began, never once did I have a work from home day. Out of my own employee populace the amount of serious cases was non-existent (there was a great many of confirmed cases) and for my part never felt ill enough that I felt I needed to take a day off (which was the first time that happened since 2007). Really the experience just reinforced what I thought when COVID began to be a serious topic; "it is a potentially serious disease largely for unhealthy groups, but not serious enough to shut the whole world down for."
To top it off my wife had a confirmed COVID infection last year. She didn't have much more than some sniffles a week or two prior to testing positive, I never had any symptoms and just stayed at home until the recommended time had elapsed (fortunately this happened on vacation). So to that end I can see why my wife doesn't treat COVID as seriously as she once did, it was a paper tiger when had it.
That said, do I think it was necessary for me to get vaccinated on the basis of COVID-19 carrying serious risk for me?...no of course not. Considering I'm a very active person and the totality of the above, why would I?
That said, my decision to get vaccinated was based off of more that I just want to move on with my life. To that end, there is some serious barriers in my way:
1. I have a very aggressive employer regarding COVID protocols. I have no doubt a vaccine will be required (or it will be incredibly likely) once they start receiving full FDA approval.
2. I live in a state that already has COVID passports in place for things I want to do. I also frequent locales out of state where that likely will be a thing as well.
I don't want anymore barriers that I can easily avoid. So it was an easy call to go get vaccinated. I have no interest in dragging out COVID born misery any longer than necessary and I probably would have gone out in town to get vaccinated. Fortunately my employer made it easy for me to get shots and even let me get them on the clock. Seems like an obvious and easy choice in retrospect, no different than any other vaccines I've received before (aside from the consequences described above).
My wife doesn't have those consequences I described above looming over her. Her job doesn't care if she is vaccinated and she isn't bothered by the concept of a vaccine passport. I tell her these things are a reality for some, but I guess she'll have to possibly cross that bridge for herself and maybe miss out on something she wants to do. She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem. I think that me (and others in our immediate circle) pushing her anymore when she's already told me to stop won't help at this point. I just need to let her be an adult and make the decision for herself. I don't think a lot of people who are pushing vaccines really understand that they are only driving neutral/on the fence people away by being so aggressive in their stance.
To top it off my wife had a confirmed COVID infection last year. She didn't have much more than some sniffles a week or two prior to testing positive, I never had any symptoms and just stayed at home until the recommended time had elapsed (fortunately this happened on vacation). So to that end I can see why my wife doesn't treat COVID as seriously as she once did, it was a paper tiger when had it.
That said, do I think it was necessary for me to get vaccinated on the basis of COVID-19 carrying serious risk for me?...no of course not. Considering I'm a very active person and the totality of the above, why would I?
That said, my decision to get vaccinated was based off of more that I just want to move on with my life. To that end, there is some serious barriers in my way:
1. I have a very aggressive employer regarding COVID protocols. I have no doubt a vaccine will be required (or it will be incredibly likely) once they start receiving full FDA approval.
2. I live in a state that already has COVID passports in place for things I want to do. I also frequent locales out of state where that likely will be a thing as well.
I don't want anymore barriers that I can easily avoid. So it was an easy call to go get vaccinated. I have no interest in dragging out COVID born misery any longer than necessary and I probably would have gone out in town to get vaccinated. Fortunately my employer made it easy for me to get shots and even let me get them on the clock. Seems like an obvious and easy choice in retrospect, no different than any other vaccines I've received before (aside from the consequences described above).
My wife doesn't have those consequences I described above looming over her. Her job doesn't care if she is vaccinated and she isn't bothered by the concept of a vaccine passport. I tell her these things are a reality for some, but I guess she'll have to possibly cross that bridge for herself and maybe miss out on something she wants to do. She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem. I think that me (and others in our immediate circle) pushing her anymore when she's already told me to stop won't help at this point. I just need to let her be an adult and make the decision for herself. I don't think a lot of people who are pushing vaccines really understand that they are only driving neutral/on the fence people away by being so aggressive in their stance.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bing101 on May 10, 2021, 09:38:08 PM
Post by: bing101 on May 10, 2021, 09:38:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html)
Some people were abused by a doctor or knew somebody who was killed by Opioid abuse and that may be a factor why some people would side with anti-vax politicians. But its just me trying to learn to pretend how to look at people who do not have a biology degree like I do though. I had to learn what my family members know about biology and what knowledge gaps I can fill them in with about vaccine research and the FDA clinical trials process. Also Vaccine exemption laws
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-21/sb276-california-vaccine-law-fight-gavin-newsom-legislature-how-it-happened (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-21/sb276-california-vaccine-law-fight-gavin-newsom-legislature-how-it-happened)
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-09-24/california-law-to-restrict-medical-vaccine-exemptions-raises-questions-over-control (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-09-24/california-law-to-restrict-medical-vaccine-exemptions-raises-questions-over-control)
I had to explain California vaccine exemptions laws and it only accepts medical exemptions. Note medical exemptions to vaccines is subjected to medical board audit in the state.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PMYikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.
She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PMYikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.
She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.
There hasn't been any that I've seen, but her doctor told her to be cautious. Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine. That's kind of why I don't think you guys don't do a great job of putting yourself in the shoes of other people and trying to understand why they aren't banging down the door to get vaccinated. Not everyone who hasn't been a vaccinated is an anti-vaxer or COVID denier.
Edit; also for some reason she thought that it might affect male fertility for awhile too. Given she never had a basis for that thought it was a pretty easy argument to counter.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: vdeane on May 10, 2021, 09:56:27 PM
Post by: vdeane on May 10, 2021, 09:56:27 PM
Meanwhile, it looks like the Sinopharm vaccine is complete garbage. Possibly AstraZenica too.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/05/10/breaking-news/worlds-most-vaccinated-nation-seychelles-sees-covid-19-surge/
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/05/10/breaking-news/worlds-most-vaccinated-nation-seychelles-sees-covid-19-surge/
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:06:18 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:06:18 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 10, 2021, 09:56:27 PMThat's disheartening. Many nearby countries, like Canada, use astrazeneca so that could be a problem.
Meanwhile, it looks like the Sinopharm vaccine is complete garbage. Possibly AstraZenica too.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/05/10/breaking-news/worlds-most-vaccinated-nation-seychelles-sees-covid-19-surge/
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 10:13:16 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 10:13:16 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 10, 2021, 09:56:27 PMAnd yet, AstraZeneca is planning to seek full FDA approval for their vaccine use in America.
Meanwhile, it looks like the Sinopharm vaccine is complete garbage. Possibly AstraZenica too.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/05/10/breaking-news/worlds-most-vaccinated-nation-seychelles-sees-covid-19-surge/
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:15:48 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 10:13:16 PMWe don't need their vaccine.Quote from: vdeane on May 10, 2021, 09:56:27 PMAnd yet, AstraZeneca is planning to seek full FDA approval for their vaccine use in America.
Meanwhile, it looks like the Sinopharm vaccine is complete garbage. Possibly AstraZenica too.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/05/10/breaking-news/worlds-most-vaccinated-nation-seychelles-sees-covid-19-surge/
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 10:19:13 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 10:19:13 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:15:48 PMExactly.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 10:13:16 PMWe don't need their vaccine.Quote from: vdeane on May 10, 2021, 09:56:27 PMAnd yet, AstraZeneca is planning to seek full FDA approval for their vaccine use in America.
Meanwhile, it looks like the Sinopharm vaccine is complete garbage. Possibly AstraZenica too.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/05/10/breaking-news/worlds-most-vaccinated-nation-seychelles-sees-covid-19-surge/
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:23:49 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:23:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMDoctor says be cautious? What does that even mean to a patient? Doctor should either say yea or nay.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PMYikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.
She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.
There hasn't been any that I've seen, but her doctor told her to be cautious. Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine. That's kind of why I don't think you guys don't do a great job of putting yourself in the shoes of other people and trying to understand why they aren't banging down the door to get vaccinated. Not everyone who hasn't been a vaccinated is an anti-vaxer or COVID denier.
Edit; also for some reason she thought that it might affect male fertility for awhile too. Given she never had a basis for that thought it was a pretty easy argument to counter.
CDC says vaccines do not affect fertility or pregnancy.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:31:33 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:31:33 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:23:49 PMShe probably trusts her doctor more than the CDC.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMDoctor says be cautious? What does that even mean to a patient? Doctor should either say yea or nay.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PMYikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.
She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.
There hasn't been any that I've seen, but her doctor told her to be cautious. Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine. That's kind of why I don't think you guys don't do a great job of putting yourself in the shoes of other people and trying to understand why they aren't banging down the door to get vaccinated. Not everyone who hasn't been a vaccinated is an anti-vaxer or COVID denier.
Edit; also for some reason she thought that it might affect male fertility for awhile too. Given she never had a basis for that thought it was a pretty easy argument to counter.
CDC says vaccines do not affect fertility or pregnancy.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 10:33:05 PM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 10:33:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:31:33 PMSome schools still have the outdoor mask mandate.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:23:49 PMShe probably trusts her doctor more than the CDC.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMDoctor says be cautious? What does that even mean to a patient? Doctor should either say yea or nay.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PMYikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.
She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.
There hasn't been any that I've seen, but her doctor told her to be cautious. Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine. That's kind of why I don't think you guys don't do a great job of putting yourself in the shoes of other people and trying to understand why they aren't banging down the door to get vaccinated. Not everyone who hasn't been a vaccinated is an anti-vaxer or COVID denier.
Edit; also for some reason she thought that it might affect male fertility for awhile too. Given she never had a basis for that thought it was a pretty easy argument to counter.
CDC says vaccines do not affect fertility or pregnancy.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:45:01 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:45:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:01:28 PMExactly my point: The more they annoy the rest of us by not picking a team member, the more enjoyment they get out of it. They harden their resolve to stand up there and show how strong they are in ruining everything for the rest of us.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 08:16:48 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMHence why I called them brats. "Science, public health departments and half the population are going ahead and getting vaccinated, but I am going to sit here and make everyone pay attention to me as long as I can like a third-grader waiting to pick the first person to be on their team." The game can't begin until they do and everyone is tired of the wait.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
But here's the thing, being antagonist towards people on the fence about vaccination does more to push them away than encourage them (subjective opinion from first hand observations). In the case of Tolbs and his sister that's a literal captive audience who really ultimately doesn't have a say because she's a child. Conversely when people get on my wife's case about vaccines I can see the level of annoyance just compounding over time. She definitely isn't being encouraged by people trying to guilt her into doing something she isn't ready to do (myself included). I suspect that a lot of people who are equally on the fence feel the same way and only get discouraged by people giving the riot act on vaccines. All this "social encouragement" stuff throughout COVID has really just fallen flat on it's face from the word go.
So, still brat territory. And you're right, the way to deal with brats is not to give them the attention they deserve.
Truth be told, I'm only venting on here because I'm just tired this whole ridiculous situation. Whether it is persuasive or not, so be it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 11:19:28 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 11:19:28 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:31:33 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:23:49 PMShe probably trusts her doctor more than the CDC.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMDoctor says be cautious? What does that even mean to a patient? Doctor should either say yea or nay.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PMYikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.
She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.
There hasn't been any that I've seen, but her doctor told her to be cautious. Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine. That's kind of why I don't think you guys don't do a great job of putting yourself in the shoes of other people and trying to understand why they aren't banging down the door to get vaccinated. Not everyone who hasn't been a vaccinated is an anti-vaxer or COVID denier.
Edit; also for some reason she thought that it might affect male fertility for awhile too. Given she never had a basis for that thought it was a pretty easy argument to counter.
CDC says vaccines do not affect fertility or pregnancy.
I have advised her of the CDC changing their stance on fertility. She won't budge until her doctor says it's okay. Truth be told I can see why (after 2020 and the Trump Administration's mishandling of the pandemic) why she would trust her doctor over the CDC.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PM
Post by: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 10, 2021, 11:33:59 PM
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 10, 2021, 11:33:59 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 11:19:28 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:31:33 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:23:49 PMShe probably trusts her doctor more than the CDC.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMDoctor says be cautious? What does that even mean to a patient? Doctor should either say yea or nay.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PMYikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.
She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.
There hasn't been any that I've seen, but her doctor told her to be cautious. Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine. That's kind of why I don't think you guys don't do a great job of putting yourself in the shoes of other people and trying to understand why they aren't banging down the door to get vaccinated. Not everyone who hasn't been a vaccinated is an anti-vaxer or COVID denier.
Edit; also for some reason she thought that it might affect male fertility for awhile too. Given she never had a basis for that thought it was a pretty easy argument to counter.
CDC says vaccines do not affect fertility or pregnancy.
I have advised her of the CDC changing their stance on fertility. She won't budge until her doctor says it's okay. Truth be told I can see why (after 2020 and the Trump Administration's mishandling of the pandemic) why she would trust her doctor over the CDC.
Of course, there's also a reason why patients seek 2nd opinions. Docs often disagree on treatments, procedures and assessments. 2 friends can see 2 different doctors, and could easily get 2 different sets of guidence.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:38:39 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:38:39 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMNE2, some people really want kids. Most people I've talked to have said that they wouldn't get the vaccine if it made them infertile.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PM
Post by: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMHow does wanting to have kids make someone a misanthrope? Would that not be the opposite of misanthropy?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Takumi on May 10, 2021, 11:48:59 PM
Post by: Takumi on May 10, 2021, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:38:39 PMMeanwhile, if it made me infertile I'd get six, and booster shots monthly.Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMNE2, some people really want kids. Most people I've talked to have said that they wouldn't get the vaccine if it made them infertile.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:53:39 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PMNE2 is assuming that having kids will hurt life on the planet for the rest of us.Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMHow does wanting to have kids make someone a misanthrope? Would that not be the opposite of misanthropy?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 11:55:25 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 11:55:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 11:19:28 PMYeah, I get that.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 10:31:33 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:23:49 PMShe probably trusts her doctor more than the CDC.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMDoctor says be cautious? What does that even mean to a patient? Doctor should either say yea or nay.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PMYikes, I don't think that there is any proof that it affects fertility.
She got it in her head regarding the whole pregnancy thing and I haven't been able to convince her it isn't a problem.
There hasn't been any that I've seen, but her doctor told her to be cautious. Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine. That's kind of why I don't think you guys don't do a great job of putting yourself in the shoes of other people and trying to understand why they aren't banging down the door to get vaccinated. Not everyone who hasn't been a vaccinated is an anti-vaxer or COVID denier.
Edit; also for some reason she thought that it might affect male fertility for awhile too. Given she never had a basis for that thought it was a pretty easy argument to counter.
CDC says vaccines do not affect fertility or pregnancy.
I have advised her of the CDC changing their stance on fertility. She won't budge until her doctor says it's okay. Truth be told I can see why (after 2020 and the Trump Administration's mishandling of the pandemic) why she would trust her doctor over the CDC.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:28:45 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:28:45 AM
Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
I'm 38 and she's 36, neither of us have a kid. We are also on our first marriage each, some would say that we did everything the responsible way and waited.
But to that end I've never disrespected you like this before. You've never met Jessica, but a fair amount of people you associate with on this forum have. None of them would ever describe her as someone who hates humanity.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:31:30 AM
Post by: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:31:30 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:53:39 PMI agree with him on that; I'm just not an asshole like he is.Quote from: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PMNE2 is assuming that having kids will hurt life on the planet for the rest of us.Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMHow does wanting to have kids make someone a misanthrope? Would that not be the opposite of misanthropy?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:38:14 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:38:14 AM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:31:30 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:53:39 PMI agree with him on that; I'm just not an asshole like he is.Quote from: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PMNE2 is assuming that having kids will hurt life on the planet for the rest of us.Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMHow does wanting to have kids make someone a misanthrope? Would that not be the opposite of misanthropy?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Don't get me wrong the prospect of the huge financial black hole and time burden put me off of idea most of my life. Hell, we probably wouldn't have bothered trying if we ended up with our niece if my brother in-law's adoption fell through.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:51:12 AM
Post by: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:51:12 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:38:14 AMQuote from: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:31:30 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:53:39 PMI agree with him on that; I’m just not an asshole like he is.Quote from: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PMNE2 is assuming that having kids will hurt life on the planet for the rest of us.Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMHow does wanting to have kids make someone a misanthrope? Would that not be the opposite of misanthropy?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn’t a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Don’t get me wrong the prospect of the huge financial black hole and time burden put me off of idea most of my life. Hell, we probably wouldn’t have bothered trying if we ended up with our niece if my brother in-law’s adoption fell through.
When I was with my ex a few years ago, I was going to get a vasectomy since we were both sure we didn’t want kids. She had a mental breakdown and left me, and the urologist I was planning to get it done at closed right after, so I never got around to it, but my stance hasn’t changed. If anything, the pandemic has made me even more sure I don’t want kids. But I’m not going to shame people who do.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:54:55 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:54:55 AM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:51:12 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:38:14 AMQuote from: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:31:30 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:53:39 PMI agree with him on that; I'm just not an asshole like he is.Quote from: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PMNE2 is assuming that having kids will hurt life on the planet for the rest of us.Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMHow does wanting to have kids make someone a misanthrope? Would that not be the opposite of misanthropy?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Don't get me wrong the prospect of the huge financial black hole and time burden put me off of idea most of my life. Hell, we probably wouldn't have bothered trying if we ended up with our niece if my brother in-law's adoption fell through.
When I was with my ex a few years ago, I was going to get a vasectomy since we were both sure we didn't want kids. She had a mental breakdown and left me, and the urologist I was planning to get it done at closed right after, so I never got around to it, but my stance hasn't changed. If anything, the pandemic has made me more sure I don't want kids.
And the reverse was true for us, I was planning more or less the same thing. We hadn't been planning on it but COVID played a part in changing our minds, or at least giving it a shot. I know full well (she does too) at both our ages that it's no guarantee. If it doesn't work out I'm content with that and I'm pretty sure (not 100%) she is too.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Scott5114 on May 11, 2021, 02:21:56 AM
Post by: Scott5114 on May 11, 2021, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
What motivates neutral people probably is completely subjective when it comes to vaccines. [...] Really the experience just reinforced what I thought when COVID began to be a serious topic; "it is a potentially serious disease largely for unhealthy groups, but not serious enough to shut the whole world down for."
[...]
That said, my decision to get vaccinated was based off of more that I just want to move on with my life. To that end, there is some serious barriers in my way:
1. I have a very aggressive employer regarding COVID protocols. I have no doubt a vaccine will be required (or it will be incredibly likely) once they start receiving full FDA approval.
2. I live in a state that already has COVID passports in place for things I want to do. I also frequent locales out of state where that likely will be a thing as well.
Meanwhile, I experienced an exact opposite set of circumstances from you, and still arrived at the same conclusion. My last employer was very lax when it comes to COVID protocols–or to be more accurate, went for a set of "security theater" protocols that any reasonable person could see could nonetheless allow the virus to spread (e.g. requiring temperature checks and mask wearing for entry, but then allowing customers to remove masks to smoke indoors). They were unwilling to enforce a stricter protocol due to a perceived risk of losing revenue from customers unwilling to comply with them. At the same time Oklahoma reacted very aggressively against any sort of statewide mask mandate, and has expressed no interest in establishing a COVID passport system.
So I found myself in a situation where my safety was, I feel like, willfully threatened by my employer, with the state likewise failing to have my back, which directly led to me leaving that job. Although I have been working on a personal business venture, it isn't ready to make any money yet, so I am going to have to get a job with someone else in the meantime. I got vaccinated because, among other reasons, it means that I don't have to worry so much about being put into a situation like the one I left last July, where the organization with the most control over my day-to-day life demonstrates that it has no regard for my safety or well-being. Being vaccinated at least means I have one tool to use in my defense.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:28:45 AMQuote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
I'm 38 and she's 36, neither of us have a kid. We are also on our first marriage each, some would say that we did everything the responsible way and waited.
But to that end I've never disrespected you like this before. You've never met Jessica, but a fair amount of people you associate with on this forum have. None of them would ever describe her as someone who hates humanity.
If NE2 hasn't disrespected you before, it's probably just a matter of him having not gotten around to doing it yet.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Duke87 on May 11, 2021, 02:38:34 AM
Post by: Duke87 on May 11, 2021, 02:38:34 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
I don't think a lot of people who are pushing vaccines really understand that they are only driving neutral/on the fence people away by being so aggressive in their stance.
Of course not, but modern America is full of tankies. There was already some commentary upthread about tying people who don't want to get vaccinated down and jabbing them against their will. It may have been presented as a joke, but don't for a second think there aren't a significant number of people out there who would be okay with this actually happening, if not outright supportive of it.
So I doubt the average person being a pain in someone's ass about their decision not to get vaccinated really cares whether it is effective at convincing them. Because it doesn't matter - if it convinces them great, but if it doesn't then their continued refusal will be used as justification for finding ways to punish them for their decision. And if that still doesn't work, it will be used as justification for ultimately taking away their freedom to make the decision for themselves.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 08:06:30 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 08:06:30 AM
I wasn't really so sure myself if that commentary about forcing injections was a joke. I've met a lot of people who would really do believe they ought to be a thing, only the poster can really answer what they meant.
Regarding passports and vaccine barriers, I obviously know they are a real thing. For my wife, I think that's a bridge she is just going to have to cross for herself. I hope that she just goes and gets the vaccination out of the way. I have no intention of missing out on any activity I want to do because she dragged her feet.
Don't get me wrong we had the security theater also. The temperature check at the door was especially ineffective given we only ever turned a single person away. As noted I believe earlier in the thread I ended up kicking out over two dozen people for not wearing masks or otherwise being jerks to employees. They even went as far as instituting a travel ban at one point which was a 50 mile radius for the work place. Why it was a good to have real safety standards and protocols we also did some overbearing and ineffective stuff that ended up pushing some people to quit ultimately. I'm not sure what the right balance was but it seems to have to the total opposite direction you experienced.
Regarding NE2/SPUI his comment while not surprising was disappointing considering someone I do have a lot of respect for on this forum recently vouched for his character. People who supposedly "care about people" (I believe that's his motto he post elsewhere) don't tell others their wife hate humanity with no basis, or at least the irony of what he said wasn't lost on me.
Regarding passports and vaccine barriers, I obviously know they are a real thing. For my wife, I think that's a bridge she is just going to have to cross for herself. I hope that she just goes and gets the vaccination out of the way. I have no intention of missing out on any activity I want to do because she dragged her feet.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2021, 02:21:56 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
What motivates neutral people probably is completely subjective when it comes to vaccines. [...] Really the experience just reinforced what I thought when COVID began to be a serious topic; "it is a potentially serious disease largely for unhealthy groups, but not serious enough to shut the whole world down for."
[...]
That said, my decision to get vaccinated was based off of more that I just want to move on with my life. To that end, there is some serious barriers in my way:
1. I have a very aggressive employer regarding COVID protocols. I have no doubt a vaccine will be required (or it will be incredibly likely) once they start receiving full FDA approval.
2. I live in a state that already has COVID passports in place for things I want to do. I also frequent locales out of state where that likely will be a thing as well.
Meanwhile, I experienced an exact opposite set of circumstances from you, and still arrived at the same conclusion. My last employer was very lax when it comes to COVID protocols–or to be more accurate, went for a set of "security theater" protocols that any reasonable person could see could nonetheless allow the virus to spread (e.g. requiring temperature checks and mask wearing for entry, but then allowing customers to remove masks to smoke indoors). They were unwilling to enforce a stricter protocol due to a perceived risk of losing revenue from customers unwilling to comply with them. At the same time Oklahoma reacted very aggressively against any sort of statewide mask mandate, and has expressed no interest in establishing a COVID passport system.
So I found myself in a situation where my safety was, I feel like, willfully threatened by my employer, with the state likewise failing to have my back, which directly led to me leaving that job. Although I have been working on a personal business venture, it isn't ready to make any money yet, so I am going to have to get a job with someone else in the meantime. I got vaccinated because, among other reasons, it means that I don't have to worry so much about being put into a situation like the one I left last July, where the organization with the most control over my day-to-day life demonstrates that it has no regard for my safety or well-being. Being vaccinated at least means I have one tool to use in my defense.Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 12:28:45 AMQuote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
I'm 38 and she's 36, neither of us have a kid. We are also on our first marriage each, some would say that we did everything the responsible way and waited.
But to that end I've never disrespected you like this before. You've never met Jessica, but a fair amount of people you associate with on this forum have. None of them would ever describe her as someone who hates humanity.
If NE2 hasn't disrespected you before, it's probably just a matter of him having not gotten around to doing it yet.
Don't get me wrong we had the security theater also. The temperature check at the door was especially ineffective given we only ever turned a single person away. As noted I believe earlier in the thread I ended up kicking out over two dozen people for not wearing masks or otherwise being jerks to employees. They even went as far as instituting a travel ban at one point which was a 50 mile radius for the work place. Why it was a good to have real safety standards and protocols we also did some overbearing and ineffective stuff that ended up pushing some people to quit ultimately. I'm not sure what the right balance was but it seems to have to the total opposite direction you experienced.
Regarding NE2/SPUI his comment while not surprising was disappointing considering someone I do have a lot of respect for on this forum recently vouched for his character. People who supposedly "care about people" (I believe that's his motto he post elsewhere) don't tell others their wife hate humanity with no basis, or at least the irony of what he said wasn't lost on me.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 08:10:18 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 08:10:18 AM
NE2's comment about tying people down was even worse, given what was in the news at the time.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 08:15:55 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 08:15:55 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 11, 2021, 08:10:18 AM
NE2's comment about tying people down was even worse, given what was in the news at the time.
Geeze I missed that one, in what context is was that said?
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 08:18:32 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 08:18:32 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 08:15:55 AMQuote from: 1 on May 11, 2021, 08:10:18 AM
NE2's comment about tying people down was even worse, given what was in the news at the time.
Geeze I missed that one, in what context is was that said?
Quote from: NE2 on April 22, 2021, 05:40:39 PM
I'll take that as a yes. I'll get the jab while y'all hold him down.
(click quote link for context)
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Avalanchez71 on May 11, 2021, 08:59:35 AM
Post by: Avalanchez71 on May 11, 2021, 08:59:35 AM
If you have the vaccine then why do you care if someone else doesn't? They are the one that is exposed and you are vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 09:05:58 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 09:05:58 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 11, 2021, 08:59:35 AM
If you have the vaccine then why do you care if someone else doesn't? They are the one that is exposed and you are vaccinated.
The percentage vaccinated matters much more than whether any one specific individual is vaccinated or not.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: tolbs17 on May 11, 2021, 09:15:29 AM
Post by: tolbs17 on May 11, 2021, 09:15:29 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 11, 2021, 08:59:35 AMCause that's how the virus will keep spreading.
If you have the vaccine then why do you care if someone else doesn't? They are the one that is exposed and you are vaccinated.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 09:31:16 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 09:31:16 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 11, 2021, 09:05:58 AMQuote from: Avalanchez71 on May 11, 2021, 08:59:35 AM
If you have the vaccine then why do you care if someone else doesn't? They are the one that is exposed and you are vaccinated.
The percentage vaccinated matters much more than whether any one specific individual is vaccinated or not.
That percentage probably is eventually going to be just a big of a barrier this next year towards lessening restrictions. So to that end, I can see why people get frustrated when others in their circle won't or are hesitant to get vaccinations.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Alps on May 11, 2021, 09:37:06 AM
Post by: Alps on May 11, 2021, 09:37:06 AM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:31:30 AMI understand a couple of people have reported this post. That said, it's at least clear to me this is tongue in cheek. He's not actually calling her a misanthrope, he's insinuating that anyone who wants kids nowadays hates humanity, which is clearly an exaggeration of the problem.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:53:39 PMI agree with him on that; I'm just not an asshole like he is.Quote from: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PMNE2 is assuming that having kids will hurt life on the planet for the rest of us.Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMHow does wanting to have kids make someone a misanthrope? Would that not be the opposite of misanthropy?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 09:47:42 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 09:47:42 AM
Quote from: Alps on May 11, 2021, 09:37:06 AMQuote from: Takumi on May 11, 2021, 12:31:30 AMI understand a couple of people have reported this post. That said, it's at least clear to me this is tongue in cheek. He's not actually calling her a misanthrope, he's insinuating that anyone who wants kids nowadays hates humanity, which is clearly an exaggeration of the problem.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 11:53:39 PMI agree with him on that; I'm just not an asshole like he is.Quote from: bm7 on May 10, 2021, 11:47:01 PMNE2 is assuming that having kids will hurt life on the planet for the rest of us.Quote from: NE2 on May 10, 2021, 11:31:26 PMHow does wanting to have kids make someone a misanthrope? Would that not be the opposite of misanthropy?Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:44:12 PMWants to add another person to an overcrowded world: check.
Suffice to say that pregnancy (which isn't a guarantee either) is more important to her than getting a vaccine.
Wants to prolong the life of covid: check.
Sounds like you married a misanthrope.
For the record, if anyone is wondering I wasn't one of those people. That was my wife he referred to and I think that I handled my retort reasonably. I don't think something like that needs to be "moderated out."
That said, I didn't take it as "tongue and cheek" either, but that's just my opinion. Maybe I would feel differently if there wasn't a mountain of evidence that suggests he really does think that way towards other people. That said it's worth noting Jessica is not on this forum nor would really care what he said anyways.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:22:36 AM
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:22:36 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2021, 02:21:56 AM
If NE2 hasn't disrespected you before, it's probably just a matter of him having not gotten around to doing it yet.
Concur. Even as someone with dry humor, NE2's humor is next-level dry. You can't take anything he posts too literally or get offended by it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 10:23:59 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 10:23:59 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:22:36 AMI don't get offended by NE2, I just jab back. It's all good fun, the forum is more fun with him on here.Quote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2021, 02:21:56 AM
If NE2 hasn't disrespected you before, it's probably just a matter of him having not gotten around to doing it yet.
Concur. Even as someone with dry humor, NE2's humor is next-level dry. You can't take anything he posts too literally or get offended by it.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 10:26:04 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 10:26:04 AM
NE2 has several enemies. If you're one of them, you probably can't brush off NE2's comments.
Thread split, please, so this thread doesn't get locked.
Thread split, please, so this thread doesn't get locked.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 10:28:50 AM
Post by: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:22:36 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2021, 02:21:56 AM
If NE2 hasn't disrespected you before, it's probably just a matter of him having not gotten around to doing it yet.
Concur. Even as someone with dry humor, NE2's humor is next-level dry. You can't take anything he posts too literally or get offended by it.
I think you're making a bit of an unwarranted assumption in concluding that NE2's comments are intended as "humor," and I say that as someone who enjoys deadpan stuff. To some degree, NE2's comments remind me of the sorts of comments our nephew used to make before he grew up enough to develop a brain-to-mouth filter (such as the time about six years ago when our then-12-year-old nephew told me that I'm getting a lot of grey hair; he was not mature enough to understand my sarcastic response of, "Gee, thank you, I never would have known that without your help!"). I can't come up with what I think is an appropriate way to say any more than that, so I will just leave it there.
On the plus side, if NE2 behaves the same way in person as he does on this forum, then he'd probably alienate most women to the point where probably isn't too much risk of him ever having kids who will grow up to behave the same way he does.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 10:31:48 AM
Post by: hotdogPi on May 11, 2021, 10:31:48 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 10:28:50 AM
On the plus side, if NE2 behaves the same way in person as he does on this forum, then he'd probably alienate most women to the point where probably isn't too much risk of him ever having kids who will grow up to behave the same way he does.
NE2 is a very prolific Wikipedia editor. If he acted there the way he does on this forum, he would have been blocked long ago.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Back to vaccines...
For the people in America who don't want it, I'm sure India would love the vaccines! In all honesty, prayers for India. It's very bad over there.
For the people in America who don't want it, I'm sure India would love the vaccines! In all honesty, prayers for India. It's very bad over there.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2021, 10:35:42 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2021, 10:35:42 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Back to vaccines...
For the people in America who don't want it, I'm sure India would love the vaccines! In all honesty, prayers for India. It's very bad over there.
And now every country right around it too. Pakistan and Nepal are getting crushed.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 10:38:12 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 10:38:12 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 11, 2021, 10:35:42 AMMuch of the world is doing quite poorly, America is kind of a bubble.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Back to vaccines...
For the people in America who don't want it, I'm sure India would love the vaccines! In all honesty, prayers for India. It's very bad over there.
And now every country right around it too. Pakistan and Nepal are getting crushed.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:38:35 AM
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 10:28:50 AMQuote from: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:22:36 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2021, 02:21:56 AM
If NE2 hasn't disrespected you before, it's probably just a matter of him having not gotten around to doing it yet.
Concur. Even as someone with dry humor, NE2's humor is next-level dry. You can't take anything he posts too literally or get offended by it.
I think you're making a bit of an unwarranted assumption in concluding that NE2's comments are intended as "humor," and I say that as someone who enjoys deadpan stuff. To some degree, NE2's comments remind me of the sorts of comments our nephew used to make before he grew up enough to develop a brain-to-mouth filter ...
I guess what I meant was that it doesn't really matter if he thinks it's humor, because regardless, if you take it seriously and/or get offended by it, you are playing right into his hands. So it's best to just assume a lack of seriousness and not worry too much about what his intentions were.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:39:57 AM
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:39:57 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 11, 2021, 10:26:04 AMI was already going to post this, because I am contractually obligated to do so anytime someone uses the word "misanthrope".
Thread split, please, so this thread doesn't get locked.
However, it will hopefully have the added benefit of cooling down, and potentially saving, this thread. Enjoy :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz8P8rgkKPY
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 10:48:18 AM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 10:48:18 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:38:35 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2021, 10:28:50 AMQuote from: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 10:22:36 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2021, 02:21:56 AM
If NE2 hasn't disrespected you before, it's probably just a matter of him having not gotten around to doing it yet.
Concur. Even as someone with dry humor, NE2's humor is next-level dry. You can't take anything he posts too literally or get offended by it.
I think you're making a bit of an unwarranted assumption in concluding that NE2's comments are intended as "humor," and I say that as someone who enjoys deadpan stuff. To some degree, NE2's comments remind me of the sorts of comments our nephew used to make before he grew up enough to develop a brain-to-mouth filter ...
I guess what I meant was that it doesn't really matter if he thinks it's humor, because regardless, if you take it seriously and/or get offended by it, you are playing right into his hands. So it's best to just assume a lack of seriousness and not worry too much about what his intentions were.
Even if you're trying to be funny you probably ought not tell someone that his wife hates the world for waiting to near middle age to have one kid. I'm not really offended, I'm more disappointed. A lot of us interact and know each other outside this forum, we talk about people in the road community. A lot of people go to bat for NE2 despite the things he says to people on this forum. I want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but how can I in this instance when there is so much evidence (by his own actions on this forum) to support that he meant what he said? I'm not the nicest person myself, but what he said took things to a whole another level.
Plus you are all missing that he also said that Jessica wants the pandemic to go on because she is hesitant to get a vaccine. That plays right into the point I was making pages back on how that attitude can backfire and push people away from getting one.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: bm7 on May 11, 2021, 11:21:39 AM
Post by: bm7 on May 11, 2021, 11:21:39 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on May 11, 2021, 02:38:34 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
I don't think a lot of people who are pushing vaccines really understand that they are only driving neutral/on the fence people away by being so aggressive in their stance.
Of course not, but modern America is full of tankies. There was already some commentary upthread about tying people who don't want to get vaccinated down and jabbing them against their will. It may have been presented as a joke, but don't for a second think there aren't a significant number of people out there who would be okay with this actually happening, if not outright supportive of it.
So I doubt the average person being a pain in someone's ass about their decision not to get vaccinated really cares whether it is effective at convincing them. Because it doesn't matter - if it convinces them great, but if it doesn't then their continued refusal will be used as justification for finding ways to punish them for their decision. And if that still doesn't work, it will be used as justification for ultimately taking away their freedom to make the decision for themselves.
Just a few pages back people in this thread were suggesting fining people, and not letting them go to college or have a job if they don't get vaccinated. It's disturbing to me that people want to take other's freedoms away over this just because they don't agree with them.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 11:26:21 AM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 11:26:21 AM
Quote from: bm7 on May 11, 2021, 11:21:39 AMI don't support fining people for not getting the vaccine. But if an employer or a college thinks that it's too risky to have an unvaccinated person working somewhere or attending school, they can fire them/kick them out of the school.Quote from: Duke87 on May 11, 2021, 02:38:34 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
I don't think a lot of people who are pushing vaccines really understand that they are only driving neutral/on the fence people away by being so aggressive in their stance.
Of course not, but modern America is full of tankies. There was already some commentary upthread about tying people who don't want to get vaccinated down and jabbing them against their will. It may have been presented as a joke, but don't for a second think there aren't a significant number of people out there who would be okay with this actually happening, if not outright supportive of it.
So I doubt the average person being a pain in someone's ass about their decision not to get vaccinated really cares whether it is effective at convincing them. Because it doesn't matter - if it convinces them great, but if it doesn't then their continued refusal will be used as justification for finding ways to punish them for their decision. And if that still doesn't work, it will be used as justification for ultimately taking away their freedom to make the decision for themselves.
Just a few pages back people in this thread were suggesting fining people, and not letting them go to college or have a job if they don't get vaccinated. It's disturbing to me that people want to take other's freedoms away over this just because they don't agree with them.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2021, 11:58:31 AM
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2021, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: bm7 on May 11, 2021, 11:21:39 AM
Just a few pages back people in this thread were suggesting fining people, and not letting them go to college or have a job if they don't get vaccinated. It's disturbing to me that people want to take other's freedoms away over this just because they don't agree with them.
The two largest public universities in Colorado will have a vaccine requirement for this coming school year. Similarly, there has long been a polio/MMR vaccine requirement for public schools of all ages. I don't see why it'd be any different for Covid.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 12:00:34 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 12:00:34 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 11, 2021, 11:58:31 AMI will suspect that public high and middle schools might require it for next year.Quote from: bm7 on May 11, 2021, 11:21:39 AM
Just a few pages back people in this thread were suggesting fining people, and not letting them go to college or have a job if they don't get vaccinated. It's disturbing to me that people want to take other's freedoms away over this just because they don't agree with them.
The two largest public universities in Colorado will have a vaccine requirement for this coming school year. Similarly, there has long been a polio/MMR vaccine requirement for public schools of all ages. I don't see why it'd be any different for Covid.
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 11, 2021, 12:24:21 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 11, 2021, 12:24:21 PM
Quote from: bm7 on May 11, 2021, 11:21:39 AMQuote from: Duke87 on May 11, 2021, 02:38:34 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
I don't think a lot of people who are pushing vaccines really understand that they are only driving neutral/on the fence people away by being so aggressive in their stance.
Of course not, but modern America is full of tankies. There was already some commentary upthread about tying people who don't want to get vaccinated down and jabbing them against their will. It may have been presented as a joke, but don't for a second think there aren't a significant number of people out there who would be okay with this actually happening, if not outright supportive of it.
So I doubt the average person being a pain in someone's ass about their decision not to get vaccinated really cares whether it is effective at convincing them. Because it doesn't matter - if it convinces them great, but if it doesn't then their continued refusal will be used as justification for finding ways to punish them for their decision. And if that still doesn't work, it will be used as justification for ultimately taking away their freedom to make the decision for themselves.
Just a few pages back people in this thread were suggesting fining people, and not letting them go to college or have a job if they don't get vaccinated. It's disturbing to me that people want to take other's freedoms away over this just because they don't agree with them.
It's disturbing to me that many people's barometer of liberty is how much they're allowed to endanger unwilling/unknowing strangers that they may encounter. Many people believe incorrectly that they only risk themselves through their actions. I'm no bleating "you could kill someone's grandma", and this goes to many issues beyond vaccines.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 12:29:30 PM
Post by: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 12:29:30 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:45:01 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:01:28 PMExactly my point: The more they annoy the rest of us by not picking a team member, the more enjoyment they get out of it. They harden their resolve to stand up there and show how strong they are in ruining everything for the rest of us.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 08:16:48 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMHence why I called them brats. "Science, public health departments and half the population are going ahead and getting vaccinated, but I am going to sit here and make everyone pay attention to me as long as I can like a third-grader waiting to pick the first person to be on their team." The game can't begin until they do and everyone is tired of the wait.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
But here's the thing, being antagonist towards people on the fence about vaccination does more to push them away than encourage them (subjective opinion from first hand observations). In the case of Tolbs and his sister that's a literal captive audience who really ultimately doesn't have a say because she's a child. Conversely when people get on my wife's case about vaccines I can see the level of annoyance just compounding over time. She definitely isn't being encouraged by people trying to guilt her into doing something she isn't ready to do (myself included). I suspect that a lot of people who are equally on the fence feel the same way and only get discouraged by people giving the riot act on vaccines. All this "social encouragement" stuff throughout COVID has really just fallen flat on it's face from the word go.
So, still brat territory. And you're right, the way to deal with brats is not to give them the attention they deserve.
Truth be told, I'm only venting on here because I'm just tired this whole ridiculous situation. Whether it is persuasive or not, so be it.
All Rothman and his incessant "everyone should get the shot" babble is doing is convincing me that he's a jerk.
*personal opinion emphasized :bigass:
Truth be told, I might be more inclined to get the shot if people -- and by people I mean AA Roads posters, celebrities, random Twitter blue-checks, governors, television networks, etc., basically everybody -- would just shut up about it. The more you push me to do something, the more resistant I am to do it, whether it's cleaning out the garage or getting a shot. There's honestly more peer pressure involved in getting this stupid shot than I ever experienced as a teen to smoke, drink, do drugs, skip school, or anything else.
I have weighed the pros and cons of getting the shot and find that no benefits accrue from me taking it. If you can still catch covid, if you can still spread covid, if you still have to wear a mask and not gather in large groups, then why would I take a shot with possible known short-term side effects and unknown long-term side effects if it's not guaranteed to keep me from catching a virus that I don't have that great of a chance of catching in the first place? Especially given my own history with the flu; in that I've never had a flu shot and I've never had the flu despite numerous exposures over the years that would have gotten me imprisoned at home for two weeks if it had been covid, regardless of whether or not I got sick?
I respect the decision of those who took the shot under the presumption that it was in their own best interests. I don't think it's too much to ask for the same respect for a different decision.
And I honest-to-God hope that Dan Moraseski never reproduces. I don't have any kids. I didn't really want to have any, for a variety of reasons, but I understand that many (most) people do. Whether he was kidding or not, that statement was way out of line.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 12:31:51 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 12:29:30 PMYou have a much lower chance of catching and spreading covid and you can gather in large groups with vaccinated people. The vaccine isn't perfect, but it's very effective.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:45:01 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:01:28 PMExactly my point: The more they annoy the rest of us by not picking a team member, the more enjoyment they get out of it. They harden their resolve to stand up there and show how strong they are in ruining everything for the rest of us.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 08:16:48 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMHence why I called them brats. "Science, public health departments and half the population are going ahead and getting vaccinated, but I am going to sit here and make everyone pay attention to me as long as I can like a third-grader waiting to pick the first person to be on their team." The game can't begin until they do and everyone is tired of the wait.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
But here's the thing, being antagonist towards people on the fence about vaccination does more to push them away than encourage them (subjective opinion from first hand observations). In the case of Tolbs and his sister that's a literal captive audience who really ultimately doesn't have a say because she's a child. Conversely when people get on my wife's case about vaccines I can see the level of annoyance just compounding over time. She definitely isn't being encouraged by people trying to guilt her into doing something she isn't ready to do (myself included). I suspect that a lot of people who are equally on the fence feel the same way and only get discouraged by people giving the riot act on vaccines. All this "social encouragement" stuff throughout COVID has really just fallen flat on it's face from the word go.
So, still brat territory. And you're right, the way to deal with brats is not to give them the attention they deserve.
Truth be told, I'm only venting on here because I'm just tired this whole ridiculous situation. Whether it is persuasive or not, so be it.
All Rothman and his incessant "everyone should get the shot" babble is doing is convincing me that he's a jerk.
*personal opinion emphasized :bigass:
Truth be told, I might be more inclined to get the shot if people -- and by people I mean AA Roads posters, celebrities, random Twitter blue-checks, governors, television networks, etc., basically everybody -- would just shut up about it. The more you push me to do something, the more resistant I am to do it, whether it's cleaning out the garage or getting a shot. There's honestly more peer pressure involved in getting this stupid shot than I ever experienced as a teen to smoke, drink, do drugs, skip school, or anything else.
I have weighed the pros and cons of getting the shot and find that no benefits accrue from me taking it. If you can still catch covid, if you can still spread covid, if you still have to wear a mask and not gather in large groups, then why would I take a shot with possible known short-term side effects and unknown long-term side effects if it's not guaranteed to keep me from catching a virus that I don't have that great of a chance of catching in the first place? Especially given my own history with the flu; in that I've never had a flu shot and I've never had the flu despite numerous exposures over the years that would have gotten me imprisoned at home for two weeks if it had been covid, regardless of whether or not I got sick?
I respect the decision of those who took the shot under the presumption that it was in their own best interests. I don't think it's too much to ask for the same respect for a different decision.
And I honest-to-God hope that Dan Moraseski never reproduces. I don't have any kids. I didn't really want to have any, for a variety of reasons, but I understand that many (most) people do. Whether he was kidding or not, that statement was way out of line.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NE2 on May 11, 2021, 12:36:57 PM
Post by: NE2 on May 11, 2021, 12:36:57 PM
Holy crap, I found something I agree with H Belkins about.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 12:38:26 PM
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 12:38:26 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 11, 2021, 12:36:57 PMDo you not want the covid vaccine either?
Holy crap, I found something I agree with H Belkins about.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 12:42:01 PM
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 12:42:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 10:48:18 AM
Even if you're trying to be funny you probably ought not tell someone that his wife hates the world for waiting to near middle age to have one kid. I'm not really offended, I'm more disappointed. A lot of us interact and know each other outside this forum, we talk about people in the road community. A lot of people go to bat for NE2 despite the things he says to people on this forum. I want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but how can I in this instance when there is so much evidence (by his own actions on this forum) to support that he meant what he said? I'm not the nicest person myself, but what he said took things to a whole another level.
Plus you are all missing that he also said that Jessica wants the pandemic to go on because she is hesitant to get a vaccine. That plays right into the point I was making pages back on how that attitude can backfire and push people away from getting one.
I don't want to further derail this thread, but I will add that I completely agree with what you said here. I'm not defending his comment at all, I found it to be unscrupulous and unnecessary, and didn't think it added anything to the discussion.
But my point is that it is also important to take anything said on the Internet with a few grains of salt and not read too much into it, since it's basically impossible to know for sure what someone's thoughts/feelings/motivations are. In other words, neither "Haha, funny joke" or "NE2 is terrible!" is the appropriate response here. Ultimately, discussing his comment only amplifies it further, so the best response might just be no response at all.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 12:43:02 PM
Post by: webny99 on May 11, 2021, 12:43:02 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 11, 2021, 12:38:26 PMQuote from: NE2 on May 11, 2021, 12:36:57 PMDo you not want the covid vaccine either?
Holy crap, I found something I agree with H Belkins about.
Goodness gracious, we are off the rails, but anyways, I think this is what they agree about:
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 12:29:30 PM
And I honest-to-God hope that Dan Moraseski never reproduces. I don't have any kids. I didn't really want to have any, for a variety of reasons, but I understand that many (most) people do. Whether he was kidding or not, that statement was way out of line.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2021, 12:49:33 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2021, 12:49:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 12:29:30 PM
There's honestly more peer pressure involved in getting this stupid shot than I ever experienced as a teen to smoke, drink, do drugs, skip school, or anything else.
Because getting this shot helps society at large. Those other things you could have been pressured to do have a far more limited scope in their effect on others. If we can't come together on wanting to eliminate a pandemic, what can we have society unite on at this point?
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on May 11, 2021, 01:00:50 PM
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on May 11, 2021, 01:00:50 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 11, 2021, 12:49:33 PMQuote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 12:29:30 PM
There's honestly more peer pressure involved in getting this stupid shot than I ever experienced as a teen to smoke, drink, do drugs, skip school, or anything else.
Because getting this shot helps society at large. Those other things you could have been pressured to do have a far more limited scope in their effect on others. If we can't come together on wanting to eliminate a pandemic, what can we have society unite on at this point?
Chris
To add to this: there are two main reasons why there is so much pressure. The first is that there is literally no other way you can help so many people by doing so little. Just going and getting a simple vaccine helps the life, health, and yes, economic status of so many people because we need to reach a certain percentage of immunity to get back to normal life.
The second is that, from the very beginning of the pandemic, the President chose to lie about it and politicize it because the response to the pandemic made the stock market go down. Those lies began to spread like wildfire and people believed them. Remember the Plandemic video and "America's Frontline Doctors"? That stuff was scientifically and demonstrably proven false yet people still cling to those things rather than listen to what actual science is saying. That has made it infinitely harder to convince people of something so basic as getting a vaccine saves other people's lives.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2021, 01:09:59 PM
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2021, 01:09:59 PM
And not to mention those that are holding out to see what the "long term side effects" are. I have a friend that is a nurse and got his second vaccine almost 6 months from today and (obviously) hasn't had any issues. Is that long enough? Will one year be long enough? Is it ten years? At some point we have to realize that scientists are experts in their field and we need to trust science over hunches, anecdotes, rogue "news" stations, and faith.
Chris
Chris
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 11, 2021, 01:11:42 PM
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 11, 2021, 01:11:42 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 11, 2021, 01:09:59 PM
And not to mention those that are holding out to see what the "long term side effects" are. I have a friend that is a nurse and got his second vaccine almost 6 months from today and (obviously) hasn't had any issues. Is that long enough? Will one year be long enough? Is it ten years? At some point we have to realize that scientists are experts in their field and we need to trust science over hunches, anecdotes, rogue "news" stations, and faith.
Chris
There's a lot of "I heard my spouse's cousin's daughter's father's cousin's mother's distant friend had X happen" but no one seems to know someone directly who had X happen.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Rothman on May 11, 2021, 01:11:52 PM
Post by: Rothman on May 11, 2021, 01:11:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2021, 12:29:30 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 10:45:01 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2021, 09:01:28 PMExactly my point: The more they annoy the rest of us by not picking a team member, the more enjoyment they get out of it. They harden their resolve to stand up there and show how strong they are in ruining everything for the rest of us.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 08:16:48 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 07:35:10 PMHence why I called them brats. "Science, public health departments and half the population are going ahead and getting vaccinated, but I am going to sit here and make everyone pay attention to me as long as I can like a third-grader waiting to pick the first person to be on their team." The game can't begin until they do and everyone is tired of the wait.Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2021, 07:28:53 PMAnti-vaxxers don't care.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:23:48 PMTell her that she's prolonging the pandemic by not getting vaccinated.Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 10, 2021, 06:19:21 PMMy sister is hesitant and she doesn't want it.Quote from: tolbs17 on May 10, 2021, 06:16:01 PMMy whole family can get it now.
Great news. Hopefully vaccinations rise back up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens.html
But here's the thing, being antagonist towards people on the fence about vaccination does more to push them away than encourage them (subjective opinion from first hand observations). In the case of Tolbs and his sister that's a literal captive audience who really ultimately doesn't have a say because she's a child. Conversely when people get on my wife's case about vaccines I can see the level of annoyance just compounding over time. She definitely isn't being encouraged by people trying to guilt her into doing something she isn't ready to do (myself included). I suspect that a lot of people who are equally on the fence feel the same way and only get discouraged by people giving the riot act on vaccines. All this "social encouragement" stuff throughout COVID has really just fallen flat on it's face from the word go.
So, still brat territory. And you're right, the way to deal with brats is not to give them the attention they deserve.
Truth be told, I'm only venting on here because I'm just tired this whole ridiculous situation. Whether it is persuasive or not, so be it.
All Rothman and his incessant "everyone should get the shot" babble is doing is convincing me that he's a jerk.
*personal opinion emphasized :bigass:
Truth be told, I might be more inclined to get the shot if people -- and by people I mean AA Roads posters, celebrities, random Twitter blue-checks, governors, television networks, etc., basically everybody -- would just shut up about it. The more you push me to do something, the more resistant I am to do it, whether it's cleaning out the garage or getting a shot. There's honestly more peer pressure involved in getting this stupid shot than I ever experienced as a teen to smoke, drink, do drugs, skip school, or anything else.
Yeah, my comments have been jerky, but you just confirmed that you're bratty, just like I described (i.e., "I'd get a shot if people would shut up about it.").
The shot's safe, short-term effects are tolerable and long-term effects are nonexistent. The shot is free. Getting the shot gets us back to something closer to normal.
Therefore, by not getting the shot, you're preventing us from getting out from under restrictions...just out of spite more than anything.
So, by not getting the shot because people won't shut up about it, you're just like that third-grader in PE class I talked about: Enjoying the attention they get from inconveniencing the majority.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 01:13:07 PM
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2021, 01:13:07 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on May 11, 2021, 01:09:59 PM
And not to mention those that are holding out to see what the "long term side effects" are. I have a friend that is a nurse and got his second vaccine almost 6 months from today and (obviously) hasn't had any issues. Is that long enough? Will one year be long enough? Is it ten years? At some point we have to realize that scientists are experts in their field and we need to trust science over hunches, anecdotes, rogue "news" stations, and faith.
Chris
But one could make the argument that if people are that level of afraid of vaccines, shouldn't an actual live virus scare them just as much? But then again, that's me on the outside looking at a irrational thought with rational thinking.
Title: Re: Covid vaccination status?
Post by: SSOWorld on May 11, 2021, 01:13:43 PM
Post by: SSOWorld on May 11, 2021, 01:13:43 PM
Time to take a break. Let's all calm down. Thread locked until cleaned up.