Covid vaccination status?

[Rothman]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.

If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.

[Max Rockatansky]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.

If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.

How convenient is it for someone to get a vaccine in these circumstances?  For me it was because all I had to do was walk a couple buildings over and wait in a short line.  My wife conversely has no interest nor the patience to wait in a mass vaccination line with her car idling for over an hour.  Her take is that it is better to wait until a more convenient means is available to her.  I would have been of the same mindset had I been presented with the same means of availability.  I think a lot people don't consider things like that when they call people "stupid"  for not getting the vaccine as a blanket statement. 

[Rothman]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.

If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.

How convenient is it for someone to get a vaccine in these circumstances?  For me it was because all I had to do was walk a couple buildings over and wait in a short line.  My wife conversely has no interest nor the patience to wait in a mass vaccination line with her car idling for over an hour.  Her take is that it is better to wait until a more convenient means is available to her.  I would have been of the same mindset had I been presented with the same means of availability.  I think a lot people don't consider things like that when they call people "stupid"  for not getting the vaccine as a blanket statement.

Unless things are drastically different downstate, perhaps, there appear to be no lengthy lines here in NY at our sites to rationalize a delay.  The appointments are well-staggered and organized.

So, keep in mind the context of our little race between CT and NY.

Hour-long drive-thrus would indeed suck and I haven't experienced with anything like that, even at our testing sites.

[hotdogPi]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.

If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.

How convenient is it for someone to get a vaccine in these circumstances?  For me it was because all I had to do was walk a couple buildings over and wait in a short line.  My wife conversely has no interest nor the patience to wait in a mass vaccination line with her car idling for over an hour.  Her take is that it is better to wait until a more convenient means is available to her.  I would have been of the same mindset had I been presented with the same means of availability.  I think a lot people don't consider things like that when they call people "stupid"  for not getting the vaccine as a blanket statement.

Unless things are drastically different downstate, perhaps, there appear to no lengthy lines here in NY at our sites to rationalize a delay.  The appointments are well-staggered and organized.

So, keep in mind the context of our little race between CT and NY.

From other posts in this thread, things are drastically different downstate.

[kphoger]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.

If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.

I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals.  Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it.  The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing.  At least that's the way it is in Wichita.  I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.

Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.

[NWI_Irish96]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.

If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.

I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals.  Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it.  The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing.  At least that's the way it is in Wichita.  I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.

Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.

Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.

[kphoger]

Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.

And, see, I say it's a moral failure to slander a career school nurse you don't even know as someone who doesn't care about protecting people.

[hotdogPi]

For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.

[Jim]

I've discussed the vaccines with lots of people who I know personally (work colleagues, family, friends, students in my classes).  I can't think of even one who isn't either vaccinated or intends to be soon.  I did hear from a friend that his fairly elderly mother was advised by her doctor not to get a covid vaccine because she had previous adverse reactions to vaccines.  Of course, I haven't discussed with everyone I know so I am sure there are some who will choose not to get a vaccine, whether for reasons I'd personally consider to be good or to be misguided.  I suppose there are many reasons people have, and they have the right to make their own decision about it.  What kind of reasons have people been hearing? 

Maybe this should branch off to a different thread.

[Duke87]

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.

Well, it's more complex than that. A large percentage of people refusing to get vaccinated are racial minorities, who for quite understandable reasons have a culturally ingrained distrust of government. There is, in fact, some specific baggage with the government offering what they claim to be free medical treatment to minorities...

But regardless, it is because of this that New York (55.1% non-hispanic white) will have a lower voluntary vaccine uptake rate than Connecticut (71.2% non-hispanic white), and at this point therefore really has no chance of catching up to Connecticut.


Even within Connecticut, the effect is visible. On a town by town basis, how many people have gotten vaccinated most obviously correlates with what percentage of the town voted for whom in recent elections. However, towns with large minority populations (e.g. Hartford, Bridgeport, New Haven) jump out as clear exceptions to this trend.

[J N Winkler]

Unless things are drastically different downstate, perhaps, there appear to be no lengthy lines here in NY at our sites to rationalize a delay.  The appointments are well-staggered and organized.

(. . .)

Hour-long drive-thrus would indeed suck and I haven't experienced with anything like that, even at our testing sites.

People's wait times have been very uneven, as can be seen just from the reports in this thread.  My father, who has had his two Pfizer shots, reports waiting for over an hour for the first shot and less than fifteen minutes for the second.  I suspect a large share of those who still haven't been vaccinated do plan to get the shots, but are waiting for enough slack to develop in the system that they are virtually guaranteed a short wait when they do go.  This was actually my original strategy, but I felt I had to change course when mask mandates started unraveling here.

Of course, I haven't discussed with everyone I know so I am sure there are some who will choose not to get a vaccine, whether for reasons I'd personally consider to be good or to be misguided.  I suppose there are many reasons people have, and they have the right to make their own decision about it.  What kind of reasons have people been hearing?

From a retired music teacher at a Catholic school:  "I just don't believe in vaccines."  I think the lesson here is that education and intellectual capacity don't necessarily add up to acceptance of empiricism.

[Duke87]

What kind of reasons have people been hearing? 

From the dude who came to clean out our air ducts a couple weeks ago: "I dunno, I'm not sure it's safe, what if we start finding next year that people who got vaccinated start having nasty problems from them".

This seems to be one of the most common reasons in general, especially among relatively young healthy people who perceive their risk of covid itself to be low and would rather take their chances with it as "it's the devil we know".

The upshot is most of these people are willing to get vaccinated eventually... but, unfortunately, the point at which they become comfortable doing so may not be in the near term.

[US 89]

What kind of reasons have people been hearing? 

My mom's haircut lady apparently doesn't want to get it because she thinks it causes infertility.

[bm7]

Of the people I know  (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:

1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.

2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.

[Roadgeekteen]

Of the people I know  (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:

1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.

2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.

You might think differently once vaccine passports are needed to go to most major events.

[J N Winkler]

A while ago I looked at how vaccination was playing out among US service personnel.  Because none of the available vaccines have progressed beyond emergency use authorization, service members are allowed to decline them, though some in Congress have questioned whether they should have this option.

*  Vaccination rate for the military as a whole is slightly above that of the US population.

*  In some Army units, only 30% of soldiers have accepted vaccine when it has been offered.

*  Rates improve (to acceptance of 80%-90%) when units go on deployment.

*  The covid case fatality rate is very low--something like 123 out of over 150,000 cases, or about 0.08%.  This is almost certainly a result of (1) a wide range of pre-existing conditions being disqualifying for service, (2) soldiers being required to maintain physical fitness (including a high degree of aerobic conditioning) on an ongoing basis, and (3) the active-duty population skewing young compared to the US population as a whole (careers longer than 20 years are rare, and potential recruits begin needing waivers at age 28 depending on service branch).  The risk reduction for a service member from being vaccinated thus falls within less than a percentage point of the case fatality rate for the US armed forces as a whole, though the reduction in risk of death from covid is probably still at least three orders of magnitude.

[Roadgeekteen]

A while ago I looked at how vaccination was playing out among US service personnel.  Because none of the available vaccines have progressed beyond emergency use authorization, service members are allowed to decline them, though some in Congress have questioned whether they should have this option.

*  Vaccination rate for the military as a whole is slightly above that of the US population.

*  In some Army units, only 30% of soldiers have accepted vaccine when it has been offered.

*  Rates improve (to acceptance of 80%-90%) when units go on deployment.

*  The covid case fatality rate is very low--something like 123 out of over 150,000 cases, or about 0.08%.  This is almost certainly a result of (1) a wide range of pre-existing conditions being disqualifying for service, (2) soldiers being required to maintain physical fitness (including a high degree of aerobic conditioning) on an ongoing basis, and (3) the active-duty population skewing young compared to the US population as a whole (careers longer than 20 years are rare, and potential recruits begin needing waivers at age 28 depending on service branch).  The risk reduction for a service member from being vaccinated thus falls within less than a percentage point of the case fatality rate for the US armed forces as a whole, though the reduction in risk of death from covid is probably still at least three orders of magnitude.

Getting a vaccine isn't just about your own risk. It's about being able to reopen society and continue life as normal. Look at Israel's cases after 50% and more got vaccinated. Cases have dropped like a rock. Also 30% want it in some units? That's insane!

[bm7]

Of the people I know  (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:

1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.

2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.

You might think differently once vaccine passports are needed to go to most major events.

Well so far, that idea hasn't really been implemented anywhere. And if it is, it would increase vaccinations for people in the second category, but wouldn't do anything to the first.

[Roadgeekteen]

Of the people I know  (myself included) who aren't planning to get it, their reasoning generally falls into one or both of these categories:

1. Unsure of the safety of them. mRNA vaccines have not been used outside of trials before these vaccines were developed, so there is little data on the long-term effects of this kind of vaccine. The Covid vaccines were all developed within the last year, which means there's no data on long-term effects of them specifically either.

2. Don't see the need to get it. They aren't concerned about getting sick because they're young and healthy, and according to the statistics therefore have an extremely low chance of serious illness/death. Additionally, most people in the country are planning to get vaccinated, meaning the spread will be greatly decreased, further lowering the risks of not being vaccinated.

You might think differently once vaccine passports are needed to go to most major events.

Well so far, that idea hasn't really been implemented anywhere. And if it is, it would increase vaccinations for people in the second category, but wouldn't do anything to the first.

Hopefully the first category is swayed as time goes on and people don't suffer any insane side effects.

[NWI_Irish96]

For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.

For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.

Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.

[Roadgeekteen]

For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.

For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.

Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.

Bingo. Also, I want to be able to see my 3 year old cousin. She can't get the vaccine yet, so I need to get it so I can see her.

[NE2]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

Then they trust stupid people. Or are being kept from the vaccine by stupid people.

[Roadgeekteen]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

Then they trust stupid people. Or are being kept from the vaccine by stupid people.

Who is keeping people from getting the vaccine?

[bm7]

For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.

For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.

Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.

Bingo. Also, I want to be able to see my 3 year old cousin. She can't get the vaccine yet, so I need to get it so I can see her.

Why can't you see her? Unless she's immune-compromised, I don't see any reason why you can't, children have the very lowest chances of getting sick from Covid.

[Roadgeekteen]

For me, individually, ignoring long-term effects of COVID, I would probably be about the same with or without the vaccine; the vaccine will give me side effects for a day or two, and getting COVID is very unlikely to kill me since I'm in my early twenties. However, it's the percent vaccinated that matters more, so I'll be getting it when I'm able to.

For healthy people that are unlikely to ever suffer severe symptoms, the primary reason for getting the vaccine is to help reach herd immunity, at which point the risk of a new, vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus becomes practically zero.

Another way to put it is that you need to get vaccinated in order for your parents/grandparents vaccines to continue to be effective.

Bingo. Also, I want to be able to see my 3 year old cousin. She can't get the vaccine yet, so I need to get it so I can see her.

Why can't you see her? Unless she's immune-compromised, I don't see any reason why you can't, children have the very lowest chances of getting sick from Covid.

Some people are very cautious.