The Sorry State of Affairs in Automobilia in the 1970s, 80s and 90s

Started by Max Rockatansky, April 30, 2016, 11:49:55 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: bugo on October 19, 2017, 10:46:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 19, 2017, 08:17:47 PM
But really even those that have them usually are of the 20-25 pound donut variety.  Really the 50 MPH speed limits and 50 mile tread life those things carry isn't going to help anyone in modern urban traffic or in the boon docks.  I build a full size spare for whatever my daily driver is out of whatever the cheapest wheel/tire combo I can find.  I much rather rely on a real tire built for real road use over some hunk of junk requiring 60 PSI.

It's going to help a hell of a lot if I'm 50 miles from home on a Sunday in an area that doesn't have cell service.

True, but thing is how many people actually keep that donut near that required 60 PSI?  Most spares I've touched have seen an air compressor in years and it would be a rare day to see even 30 PSI in most instances.  When it comes down to it, some preventative maintenance like checking for slow leaks once a month can prevent a lot of blow outs even if a car doesn't have a spare.  Really at the end of the day if a car doesn't have a spare you're looking at $100-$150 to have one built for peace of mind.


J N Winkler

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 19, 2017, 11:42:43 PMTrue, but thing is how many people actually keep that donut near that required 60 PSI?  Most spares I've touched have not seen an air compressor in years and it would be a rare day to see even 30 PSI in most instances.  When it comes down to it, some preventative maintenance like checking for slow leaks once a month can prevent a lot of blow outs even if a car doesn't have a spare.  Really at the end of the day if a car doesn't have a spare you're looking at $100-$150 to have one built for peace of mind.

In about 25 years of driving, I have had only three blowouts, and both were in connection with run-off-the-road accidents.  In the first incident, two tires were torn off their mounts (though more or less undamaged), so even with a full-size conventional spare mounted on top of the trunk carpet, I would not have been able to get back on the road if good Samaritans had not stopped and been able to re-mount one of the blown-out tires.  The second incident involved a different car that had a donut spare kept in a well under the trunk carpet.  It had likely not been checked even once since the car was new, ten years earlier, and it sufficed to limp back to town 20 miles away for repairs.

I used to check air pressure of the four road tires obsessively (once every month at minimum, maybe once every one to two weeks), but now do so no longer.  In 25 years of driving there have been only two issues that were caught by this close surveillance:  (1) slow bead leak, and (2) slow leak due to nail puncture that barely reached the inner wall.  It failed to catch a fairly rapid (but not blowout rapid) leak in several tires due to exposed steel belts--it was a change in steering feel that told me something was up, and I ended up replacing all four tires midway through a long-distance roadtrip.

I no longer feel frequent checks are justified for a car that is driven primarily at legal speeds and almost exclusively on high-type paved roads, with due care taken to avoid roads that are likely to pick up nail/screw debris and don't get enough sweeping action from cars passing at speed (classic example:  30 mph residential road where houses are being re-roofed and the last hailstorm to force roof replacement occurred when nails instead of staples were being used to secure roofing shingles).  Unless you take care to control conditions, such as checking tires cold and in the dark if the car is parked outside, you can easily wind up with pressure imbalances across each axle that degrade ride and steering feel.  All that pushing the Schrader valve pins to take readings lets out enough air that sooner or later you have to pump some back in.

These days I check tire pressures probably once every six months, in a garage, with a meat thermometer taken out of its sleeve, waved around, and put on top of a paper towel roll to measure the ambient temperature.  One set of tires is 10 years/40,000 miles old, while the other is four years/40,000 miles old, and both hold air well with pressure loss of about 0.6 psi/month at about 70° F and no more than 1 psi pressure variation across each axle.  I inflate to label pressures plus 4 psi added margin for cold ambient temperatures, air loss, and high-speed driving, so pressures never actually go below label values.  I also try to schedule pressure checks for times of day when the rate of change in ambient temperature is low.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Max Rockatansky

Since I've moved back to California I've had two tires with slow leaks in the two years I've been here.  In Florida I didn't have any in three years but I had five in three years in addition to a full on blow out in a job that had me traveling 150 nights a year in Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico, and western Texas.  Really my observation for the road debris is that it is generally much worse in the western states largely because of the terrain and lack of maintenance off of primary highways.  The rock fall in Arizona and California in particular is probably the worst I've encountered in the lower 48 states.  The big debris can cause a blow out but even the small stuff can cause a leak.  The temperature swing in the dryer climates can be as much as 40-50 degrees from peak sunlight to night time.  I've generally found that I lose 2 PSI for every 10 degrees Fahrenheit the low temperature drops in the winter. 

Probably the worst spot I had an issue was in the middle of CA 62 east of 29 Palms when I lost 10 PSI from morning (the car had a dash gauge).  Luckily I had the full-size spare and it wasn't much more than a 20-25 delay all things considered.  A lot of the trips I do really are essentially just dodging rockfall or other debris out in some derelict mountain range.  I want to say I'm still doing about 30,000 miles easily a year with all my vehicles all things considered, doesn't hurt to have an extra tire just in case. 

Henry

Quote from: bugo on October 19, 2017, 07:37:56 PM
Quote from: Henry on June 10, 2017, 11:19:50 PM
Front wheel drive is considered a demerit when it comes to sports or luxury cars by a majority of drivers. It is more practical for economy or family cars but not for premium cars.
And yet GM continued to ignore this, as did Chrysler (especially with its Imperial/New Yorker/LHS, Concorde, 300M, LeBaron and Sebring models). However, it seems that Cadillac finally learned its lesson when it reverted to RWD for all of its passenger cars a decade ago (except for the DTS/DHS/XTS).
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

kkt

Quote from: bugo on October 19, 2017, 08:10:45 PM
A disturbing trend in cars today is the lack of a spare tire in many new cars. About 1/3 of new cars do not offer spare tires, even as an option. This is unacceptable for many reasons. The reason given for discontinuing the spare tire is for weight reasons. The government with its unreasonable mileage regulations is directly responsible for ridiculous moves such as this one.

It has more to do with the larger wheels that are the style now.  To pick a random example, 1990 Honda Accord tires were R14 or R15 depending on the model.  For 2017, they are R17 to R19 depending on the model.

kphoger

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 20, 2017, 02:02:17 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 19, 2017, 11:42:43 PMTrue, but thing is how many people actually keep that donut near that required 60 PSI?  Most spares I've touched have not seen an air compressor in years and it would be a rare day to see even 30 PSI in most instances.  When it comes down to it, some preventative maintenance like checking for slow leaks once a month can prevent a lot of blow outs even if a car doesn't have a spare.  Really at the end of the day if a car doesn't have a spare you're looking at $100-$150 to have one built for peace of mind.

In about 25 years of driving, I have had only three blowouts, and both were in connection with run-off-the-road accidents.  In the first incident, two tires were torn off their mounts (though more or less undamaged), so even with a full-size conventional spare mounted on top of the trunk carpet, I would not have been able to get back on the road if good Samaritans had not stopped and been able to re-mount one of the blown-out tires.  The second incident involved a different car that had a donut spare kept in a well under the trunk carpet.  It had likely not been checked even once since the car was new, ten years earlier, and it sufficed to limp back to town 20 miles away for repairs.

I used to check air pressure of the four road tires obsessively (once every month at minimum, maybe once every one to two weeks), but now do so no longer.  In 25 years of driving there have been only two issues that were caught by this close surveillance:  (1) slow bead leak, and (2) slow leak due to nail puncture that barely reached the inner wall.  It failed to catch a fairly rapid (but not blowout rapid) leak in several tires due to exposed steel belts--it was a change in steering feel that told me something was up, and I ended up replacing all four tires midway through a long-distance roadtrip.

I no longer feel frequent checks are justified for a car that is driven primarily at legal speeds and almost exclusively on high-type paved roads, with due care taken to avoid roads that are likely to pick up nail/screw debris and don't get enough sweeping action from cars passing at speed (classic example:  30 mph residential road where houses are being re-roofed and the last hailstorm to force roof replacement occurred when nails instead of staples were being used to secure roofing shingles).  Unless you take care to control conditions, such as checking tires cold and in the dark if the car is parked outside, you can easily wind up with pressure imbalances across each axle that degrade ride and steering feel.  All that pushing the Schrader valve pins to take readings lets out enough air that sooner or later you have to pump some back in.

These days I check tire pressures probably once every six months, in a garage, with a meat thermometer taken out of its sleeve, waved around, and put on top of a paper towel roll to measure the ambient temperature.  One set of tires is 10 years/40,000 miles old, while the other is four years/40,000 miles old, and both hold air well with pressure loss of about 0.6 psi/month at about 70° F and no more than 1 psi pressure variation across each axle.  I inflate to label pressures plus 4 psi added margin for cold ambient temperatures, air loss, and high-speed driving, so pressures never actually go below label values.  I also try to schedule pressure checks for times of day when the rate of change in ambient temperature is low.

I've had probably five or six slow leaks in the last ten years.  With the most recent, it turns out all four of my brand-new tires were leaking around the TPMS inside the valves.  The time before that, I first noticed a leak (actually, the driver behind me pointed it out) about 240 miles south of the border on my way north through Mexico; it was completely flat one morning a week or two later.  Nearly all of my driving (at least in the States) is on paved roads.  It's fairly common for a tire to pick up a bolt here and there along the edge of the road in town; a leaky right-rear tire is a telltale sign that you picked up something that had rolled or been swept down towards the curb.  I also work at a cable company, so finding screws in the parking lot is a frequent thing.

ETA:  I also carry a bicycle pump on trips to Mexico or trips that will take me off pavement for this reason.  That time a couple of years ago, I was able to put 15 or 20 pounds of air in the tire right there on the side of the highway.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kkt on October 20, 2017, 03:50:35 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 19, 2017, 08:10:45 PM
A disturbing trend in cars today is the lack of a spare tire in many new cars. About 1/3 of new cars do not offer spare tires, even as an option. This is unacceptable for many reasons. The reason given for discontinuing the spare tire is for weight reasons. The government with its unreasonable mileage regulations is directly responsible for ridiculous moves such as this one.

It has more to do with the larger wheels that are the style now.  To pick a random example, 1990 Honda Accord tires were R14 or R15 depending on the model.  For 2017, they are R17 to R19 depending on the model.

And the worst part is that it is almost impossible to find any generic wheels to build a spare above 15 inches.  I was looking at building one for my Camaro about 6-7 years ago but it would have required a 18 inch wheel to clear the brake pads which I want to say were 14.4 inches on the front and 14 inch on the rears?

formulanone

Quote from: kkt on October 20, 2017, 03:50:35 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 19, 2017, 08:10:45 PM
A disturbing trend in cars today is the lack of a spare tire in many new cars. About 1/3 of new cars do not offer spare tires, even as an option. This is unacceptable for many reasons. The reason given for discontinuing the spare tire is for weight reasons. The government with its unreasonable mileage regulations is directly responsible for ridiculous moves such as this one.

It has more to do with the larger wheels that are the style now.  To pick a random example, 1990 Honda Accord tires were R14 or R15 depending on the model.  For 2017, they are R17 to R19 depending on the model.


It's more common now to see 2 or three sizes of wheels as options, and performance vehicles are more likely to have staggered-fitment sizes. 20 years ago, the full-size spare made a bit of a comeback, but either mini spare/donuts are more common or those silly inflator kits. The kit saves perhaps 5 pounds, so I'm not convinced it's so much of a weight-saving measure to gain a fraction of an mpg, but recent vehicle design at play (more trunk space, supposed ease of removing it from vehicle, unsightly design of spare wheel).

bugo

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 19, 2017, 11:42:43 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 19, 2017, 10:46:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 19, 2017, 08:17:47 PM
But really even those that have them usually are of the 20-25 pound donut variety.  Really the 50 MPH speed limits and 50 mile tread life those things carry isn't going to help anyone in modern urban traffic or in the boon docks.  I build a full size spare for whatever my daily driver is out of whatever the cheapest wheel/tire combo I can find.  I much rather rely on a real tire built for real road use over some hunk of junk requiring 60 PSI.

It's going to help a hell of a lot if I'm 50 miles from home on a Sunday in an area that doesn't have cell service.

True, but thing is how many people actually keep that donut near that required 60 PSI?  Most spares I've touched have seen an air compressor in years and it would be a rare day to see even 30 PSI in most instances.  When it comes down to it, some preventative maintenance like checking for slow leaks once a month can prevent a lot of blow outs even if a car doesn't have a spare.  Really at the end of the day if a car doesn't have a spare you're looking at $100-$150 to have one built for peace of mind.

Money very well spent. A bargain. A good value. It's taking 20 minutes to change a flat and be on your way vs calling a tow truck (IF you are lucky enough to have cell service), waiting on them to get there, waiting for them to either tow you to the nearest town or if possible, repair your tire right there on the side of the road. If you had a spare you would have been home by the time the tow truck operator got there. Not having a spare could turn an ordeal of less than half an hour into an all day thing. Considering the extreme heat and cold in certain parts of the country and you're talking about the difference between a minor inconvenience and a catastrophe.

J N Winkler

Quote from: bugo on October 27, 2017, 05:18:12 AMMoney very well spent. A bargain. A good value. It's taking 20 minutes to change a flat and be on your way vs calling a tow truck (if you are lucky enough to have cell service), waiting on them to get there, waiting for them to either tow you to the nearest town or if possible, repair your tire right there on the side of the road. If you had a spare you would have been home by the time the tow truck operator got there. Not having a spare could turn an ordeal of less than half an hour into an all day thing. Considering the extreme heat and cold in certain parts of the country and you're talking about the difference between a minor inconvenience and a catastrophe.

I think it is the high mileage on indifferently maintained roads that make a full-size custom spare a sensible investment in Max's case.  For the typical housecat scenario--bulk of annual mileage on highly improved and well-maintained highways, roads in poor condition hardly ever seen--a full-size spare can be more trouble than it is worth, especially in a car with no place already available to carry it.

Max:  do you typically also have a well or carrier custom-fabricated for each spare?
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

bugo

I don't see how carrying a spare, at least a donut, can be a bad thing. They add to weight but the weight isn't that much and it is well worth it to me for the added piece of mind.

kphoger

The larger and boxier the vehicle, the less the extra weight seems to matter anyway.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

The weight is not the problem so much as the added bulk in the trunk and also keeping the spare from moving around or leaving marks on other things carried in the trunk.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 27, 2017, 01:14:19 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 27, 2017, 05:18:12 AMMoney very well spent. A bargain. A good value. It's taking 20 minutes to change a flat and be on your way vs calling a tow truck (if you are lucky enough to have cell service), waiting on them to get there, waiting for them to either tow you to the nearest town or if possible, repair your tire right there on the side of the road. If you had a spare you would have been home by the time the tow truck operator got there. Not having a spare could turn an ordeal of less than half an hour into an all day thing. Considering the extreme heat and cold in certain parts of the country and you're talking about the difference between a minor inconvenience and a catastrophe.

I think it is the high mileage on indifferently maintained roads that make a full-size custom spare a sensible investment in Max's case.  For the typical housecat scenario--bulk of annual mileage on highly improved and well-maintained highways, roads in poor condition hardly ever seen--a full-size spare can be more trouble than it is worth, especially in a car with no place already available to carry it.

Max:  do you typically also have a well or carrier custom-fabricated for each spare?

With the Sonic it has a well that was designed around fitting a donut.  I have the full size spare on top of the truck mat and neatly organize my tools around it/on top of it so it stays in place.  Basically I've pretty much have done the same thing in every daily driver I've had for the last decade.  I want to say I carry maybe 80-100 pounds of tools and emergency equipment which would include the full-size spare.  I've never really had any issues with things bouncing around even on the worst roads but it probably wouldn't be that way without making a good fit back there.  So far I'd say the effect on fuel economy is pretty nominal considering I'm averaging 34.4 MPG over the last 45-50k miles. 


kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2017, 03:20:20 PM
I want to say I carry maybe 80-100 pounds of tools and emergency equipment which would include the full-size spare.

Don't stop.  Our best friend keeps a bunch of tools in his vehicle, and the one time he considered leaving them at home to save space for a trip to Mexico (his vehicle has been part of the caravan three times) was the time his wheel bearing went out in the middle of the Chihuahuan Desert.  Good thing he had decided against leaving them at home.  By the time the rest of us had gone into the city to buy a new bearing and gotten back with the mechanic, he had most of the first part of the job done already.  And, considering some of the mechanic's tools were inadequate, he ended up using some of our friend's tools instead (such as a sturdier pipe and a heavier sledgehammer).
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2017, 03:28:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2017, 03:20:20 PM
I want to say I carry maybe 80-100 pounds of tools and emergency equipment which would include the full-size spare.

Don't stop.  Our best friend keeps a bunch of tools in his vehicle, and the one time he considered leaving them at home to save space for a trip to Mexico (his vehicle has been part of the caravan three times) was the time his wheel bearing went out in the middle of the Chihuahuan Desert.  Good thing he had decided against leaving them at home.  By the time the rest of us had gone into the city to buy a new bearing and gotten back with the mechanic, he had most of the first part of the job done already.  And, considering some of the mechanic's tools were inadequate, he ended up using some of our friend's tools instead (such as a sturdier pipe and a heavier sledgehammer).

Even on two cross-country moves this past decade I've found that I've still had enough room even with a full-size spare and tools in the trunk.  Really it just comes down to checking the Gross Vehicle Weight sticker on the driver's side door to see what you can load in the car.  Me and the dog probably weighed 250 pounds combined, with the tools being a good 100 it left a solid 450-500 pounds to distribute through the rest of the vehicle.  That could easily be translated just as well into additional passengers or whatever one might want to carry on a trip.  Pretty much everything that is in my trunk has a purpose and has pulled my butt out of the fire at least once in the past.  Hell, even a good bottle of coolant on board can get you out a bad situation if you've sprung a leak somewhere like in a water pump.

kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2017, 03:33:41 PM
checking the Gross Vehicle Weight sticker on the driver's side door to see what you can load in the car.

pffft   :sombrero:
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

Here are two pictures from our family vacation this summer.




This is the view from the front seat.  When we go on a road trip, you can pretty much count on not seeing out the back window.


That's 15 gallons of water behind the two older boys.  The water really came in handy, considering I had neglected to put the radiator overflow cap back on after checking levels before out trip.  It didn't catch our attention in the flatland but, by the top of Monarch Pass, it was spitting all over under the hood.  I stuffed part of a tee shirt down the neck and duct taped it, and we headed to Gunnison for a replacement cap.  I unwittingly bought the wrong kind of cap, such that the system still wasn't pressurized (I've never before owned a car that pressurized through the overflow instead of the rad itself), but we didn't know it at the time.  Every time I checked, there was still coolant in the overflow, so I wasn't panicking.  Still, I decided not to go over Ophir Pass, which is a good thing, because the temp gauge pinned at H just north of Naturita, CO.  With the help of a couple of truckers, we figured out that the radiator was dry even though the overflow still had coolant in it.  We put three gallons in there on the side of the road.  Moving on west towards Utah, the overflow was spitting again at the top of John Brown Canyon.  Not wanting to end up stranded on a dirt road in the La Sal Mountains, I put another gallon of water in the rad, and we headed for Grand Junction to find a mechanic.  I drove from Gateway to Grand Junction at 45 mph with the heat on full blast in 105° weather.  It was the mechanic in GJ who figured out all that had happened was that I'd bought the wrong type of radiator cap.  But, without all that water in the car, we may well have been seriously stranded in an area with near-zero cell phone reception, many miles from a mechanic, in triple-digit weather.




From the outside.  I love our cargo box.


We were packed full.  Three tents, tarps, blankets, food, cookware, a wood stove, firewood, 15 gallons of water, a cooler, plus some tools and engine fluids.  My approach is that, if it fits, then it's all good.  Our suspension might not 100% agree, of course, considering it's all original with 160k+ miles on the clock.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2017, 04:01:47 PMI stuffed part of a tee shirt down the neck and duct taped it, and we headed to Gunnison for a replacement cap.  I unwittingly bought the wrong kind of cap, such that the system still wasn't pressurized (I've never before owned a car that pressurized through the overflow instead of the rad itself), but we didn't know it at the time.

I am curious as to how you ended up with the wrong type of cap.  Most pressure caps are rated for around 15 psi (though there are caps with lower pressure ratings you can get for use with, e.g., Evans waterless coolant), but there is enough variation in diameter, thread pitch, location and width of hold-down ears (if used), etc. that I'd think you would have had to use an application chart.

I think my daily-driver Saturn may be the only one of the family cars that has had a pressurized coolant reservoir.  Two advantages of including the reservoir in the pressurized system are greatly simplifying air bleeding when changing the coolant and preventing coolant loss through evaporation.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 27, 2017, 08:41:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2017, 04:01:47 PMI stuffed part of a tee shirt down the neck and duct taped it, and we headed to Gunnison for a replacement cap.  I unwittingly bought the wrong kind of cap, such that the system still wasn't pressurized (I've never before owned a car that pressurized through the overflow instead of the rad itself), but we didn't know it at the time.

I am curious as to how you ended up with the wrong type of cap.  Most pressure caps are rated for around 15 psi (though there are caps with lower pressure ratings you can get for use with, e.g., Evans waterless coolant), but there is enough variation in diameter, thread pitch, location and width of hold-down ears (if used), etc. that I'd think you would have had to use an application chart.

I think my daily-driver Saturn may be the only one of the family cars that has had a pressurized coolant reservoir.  Two advantages of including the reservoir in the pressurized system are greatly simplifying air bleeding when changing the coolant and preventing coolant loss through evaporation.

When I got to the O'Reilly in Gunnison, I told the clerk I needed a cap for my antifreeze overflow reservoir.  He couldn't find an item with that name in the database for my vehicle, so I just bought the same kind of overflow cap that I'd bought in the past (for a different vehicle), which is just a flat cap with no spring action.  I figured it was just a flat cap, so what did it matter?  I'd never heard of the pressure cap going on the overflow before, so it never occurred to me that it could be wrong.  It fit the reservoir, so I figured all was good.  Our best friend, who owns the same model of car as we do, never thought of it either when I described the symptoms to him by phone every so often during our trip; the truckers who stopped to help when we overheated never thought of it; at least half the people I've told the story to later have never heard of that setup either and told me they would have done the same thing.  The mechanic in Grand Junction even had to call a Nissan dealership in Virginia (where he used to work) to confirm the way the caps were supposed to be.

Because of my inattention and a $10 part, we missed visiting Ophir Pass, the La Sal Mountains, a dinosaur track site, Arches National Park, Dead Horse Point State Park, and the ghost town of Cisco.  Before our trip, I had our oldest son learning about geology and erosion specifically because we were going to be hiking in that area, and we never made it there; we turned around 1½ miles from the Utah state line, in fact.  It's actually probably a good thing we missed Utah, because it was in the middle of a heat wave, reaching 100° by noon every day, and we would have been totally zapped hiking in those conditions.  We found two neat museums in Fruita and Grand Junction instead, and the one in GJ was actually my wife's favorite part of the trip.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2017, 01:32:20 PMWhen I got to the O'Reilly in Gunnison, I told the clerk I needed a cap for my antifreeze overflow reservoir.  He couldn't find an item with that name in the database for my vehicle, so I just bought the same kind of overflow cap that I'd bought in the past (for a different vehicle), which is just a flat cap with no spring action.

I figured it might be something like that--asking the guy at the parts counter is often the kiss of death.  There is a Nissan dealership in Montrose, but that is an additional 65 miles west of Gunnison and might not have been on your itinerary.  Did you find the original cap when you returned to Wichita?  It should have had "do not open when hot" warnings on it, though Nissan OEM caps seem to be half-and-half about pressure ratings.

If my memory is correct and your current vehicle is a 2006 Pathfinder, part of the problem might have been it actually having two pressure caps.

https://parts.nissanusa.com/nissanparts/index.cfm?action=replacement&groupid=C&sectionid=214&jointvehid=11917&siteid=14

The cap you were missing was presumably parts lookup number 21516 (part number 21430-1P111) but it also looks like there is an eared pressure cap on the radiator itself that has no parts lookup number of its own and is sold as part of the radiator assembly.

In regards to the other people you talked to who expressed surprise about the missing cap being the cause of so much trouble, I wonder how many were genuinely not aware coolant reservoirs could be part of the pressurized system, and how many simply assumed the missing cap had been replaced with the correct part.  I would certainly have been aware of the possibility the reservoir was pressurized, but would probably have assumed the new part was correct until I was informed in detail about the circumstances under which it was acquired.

FWIW, with the possible exception of the Honda, none of the family cars has a cooling system with a completely traditional layout.  The Saturn has a capless radiator with a pressure cap on the reservoir.  The Toyota also has a capless radiator, but the reservoir is unpressurized, and the pressure cap is in a coolant feed pipe next to the intake manifold.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 30, 2017, 02:16:37 PM
There is a Nissan dealership in Montrose, but that is an additional 65 miles west of Gunnison and might not have been on your itinerary.

Montrose is where we stocked up on groceries before heading south to Ouray.  But, again, I thought I had solved the problem in Gunnison, so I had no need to look for a mechanic in Montrose.  When the car finally overheated, we were north of Naturita, and the direct road between the two is not even entirely paved.

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 30, 2017, 02:16:37 PM
Did you find the original cap when you returned to Wichita?

No, I probably left it sitting on top of the air filter cover or something like, and then it rode around with me awhile before falling down through the cracks.  That's the likely scenario.  This is not the first time I've left a cap off; usually, though, it's been from topping off the motor oil, and I quickly realize it when I smell some hitting hot metal.

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 30, 2017, 02:16:37 PM
It should have had "do not open when hot" warnings on it, though Nissan OEM caps seem to be half-and-half about pressure ratings.

If my memory is correct and your current vehicle is a 2006 Pathfinder, part of the problem might have been it actually having two pressure caps.

https://parts.nissanusa.com/nissanparts/index.cfm?action=replacement&groupid=C&sectionid=214&jointvehid=11917&siteid=14

The cap you were missing was presumably parts lookup number 21516 (part number 21430-1P111) but it also looks like there is an eared pressure cap on the radiator itself that has no parts lookup number of its own and is sold as part of the radiator assembly.

The overflow reservoir gets a pressure cap, and the radiator itself gets a flat cap.  I had never before taken the cap off the radiator, and I didn't remember that the overflow cap was spring-pressurized.  I had the mechanic in GJ do a full inspection–draining the system including the core, doing a pressure test, etc.  It was in the shop for two days, but all they ended up needing to do was to buy a pressure cap for the overflow.  That was back in June, and I haven't lost any coolant since then.  I checked at the top of Vail Pass on our way back, and there was not a stray drop of coolant to be found under the hood.

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 30, 2017, 02:16:37 PM
In regards to the other people you talked to who expressed surprise about the missing cap being the cause of so much trouble, I wonder how many were genuinely not aware coolant reservoirs could be part of the pressurized system, and how many simply assumed the missing cap had been replaced with the correct part.  I would certainly have been aware of the possibility the reservoir was pressurized, but would probably have assumed the new part was correct until I was informed in detail about the circumstances under which it was acquired.

I should clarify.  You're only the fourth person who has told me they've even heard of cars being pressurized through the overflow, and I've talked to people who've worked on cars for years.
They would have bought the same kind of cap I had, not knowing any better than I.  One of the other three people who had seen this kind of setup used to work in his dad's garage in the 1960s, back when it was apparently more common, and the other two have owned vehicles like that.  Our best friend, who owns a 2005 Pathfinder, was kicking himself for not thinking of it, because he new full well that our cars are pressurized like that, but it just hadn't crossed his mind.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2017, 03:59:38 PMNo, I probably left it sitting on top of the air filter cover or something like, and then it rode around with me awhile before falling down through the cracks.  That's the likely scenario.  This is not the first time I've left a cap off; usually, though, it's been from topping off the motor oil, and I quickly realize it when I smell some hitting hot metal.

I think it is a good idea to develop the habit of double-checking for sump closure any time the hood is opened to inspect fluid levels or replace fluids.  I cannot think of a single fluid-using system that is anything more than minimally tolerant of the stray debris that can blow in when a cap is off.  In fact, I probably should start taking a handheld vacuum cleaner with me when I change the oil in the Camry, because the oil filler opening is recessed in the engine top cover and tends to gather crap that blows in through the radiator, which then tends to fall in when the filler cap is taken off.

I do DIY oil changes and I also find the hot oil smell comes from failing to wipe down oil filter drip rails.  I have started to do this with the Camry and the last oil change was the first where I did not smell hot oil for the first few hundred miles.  In general, I try to practice continuous improvement:  I'm now trying to get to zero drip on a consistent basis.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Henry

In honor of the Astros' recent World Series victory, I now present the van that was named after them:

Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.