Is California the only state to use cutout shields, and why?

Started by thsftw, November 29, 2022, 04:40:11 PM

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kkt

I like California's distinctive signage, especially the cutout shields.  If the sign is half covered in snow, you can at least tell which kind of shield it is from a distance, before it's close enough read the sign.  Or maybe it's just from growing up with it.


ClassicHasClass

Less of a thing nowadays, but it's still fun to see multiple shapes on a post, too. I don't think there's an alignment in California that currently signs a US highway, an Interstate and a state highway simultaneously, but there are plenty of twosies.

bootmii

Quote from: roadman65 on November 30, 2022, 02:16:23 AM
Quote from: cl94 on November 29, 2022, 11:01:22 PM
California is because Caltrans wants to be different. See also: the cutout "one way" signs, the "XX ZONE AHEAD" speed reduction signs, and the fog line flare before interchanges in some places.

California is in their own universe in other ways to, but that's for a social media debate or on another forum, but they were the last to add exit numbers to interstates. They still won't use conventional mileposts and use black on white posts resetting at each county line with numbers displayed their own way. Then they have their own traffic lights set ups with all mast arms and back plates.

These say that they have their own set ways and I guess you can say that they're stubborn. However one can say that NJ is equally stubborn with their own jug handles and full serve gas.
Those are so hard to see and the 511 signs don't have mileage information (county postmiles, of course) like call boxes once did.
Born again roadgeek from California.

kkt

It does seem like the call boxes should have the mileage posted on them.

Max Rockatansky

Probably way easier to reference a call box number as opposed to expecting the caller to give a Postmile Number.

ClassicHasClass

Quote from: kkt on December 04, 2022, 02:46:39 PM
It does seem like the call boxes should have the mileage posted on them.

They often do, at least in So Cal.

cl94

Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2022, 08:42:41 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 02, 2022, 08:17:52 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on December 01, 2022, 11:43:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 04:41:55 AM
California also has a massive base of installed signage using their preferred standards. Even if FHWA did want to drop the hammer on them, it would take decades and a billion dollars to bring them into compliance.

It would also be pretty hard for FHWA to justify dinging Caltrans for their deviations from standard while turning a blind eye to TxDOT's use of Clearview against the terms of the 2011 Clearview circular and ODOT and NMDOT's everything.
Which ODOT? I'm assuming you meant Ohio and not Oregon?

Probably Oklahoma, where Scott5114 lives.

And known along with neighboring New Mexico to produce some of the strangest signs known to man.

Ohio isn't that much better. They've gone from land of the dancing arrows to land of hostile compliance with the MUTCD. All four are worse than California IMO. The only gripe I have against Caltrans is squeezing shields into weird places to make signs smaller.
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Scott5114

uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

TheStranger

Quote from: ClassicHasClass on December 03, 2022, 06:11:13 PM
Less of a thing nowadays, but it's still fun to see multiple shapes on a post, too. I don't think there's an alignment in California that currently signs a US highway, an Interstate and a state highway simultaneously, but there are plenty of twosies.

Not concurrencies per se, but the BGS examples of 3 route types on one sign in this state:

50/99/(formerly Business 80) in downtown Sacramento
101 TO 5/10/60 along the Santa Ana Freeway in downtown Los Angeles (a signage change that occurred in the last few years)
Chris Sampang

hotdogPi

Quote from: cl94 on December 04, 2022, 09:01:07 PM
The only gripe I have against Caltrans is squeezing shields into weird places to make signs smaller.

Lack of permissive lefts is a big issue for me.
Clinched

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Henry

Quote from: cl94 on December 04, 2022, 09:01:07 PM
Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2022, 08:42:41 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 02, 2022, 08:17:52 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on December 01, 2022, 11:43:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 04:41:55 AM
California also has a massive base of installed signage using their preferred standards. Even if FHWA did want to drop the hammer on them, it would take decades and a billion dollars to bring them into compliance.

It would also be pretty hard for FHWA to justify dinging Caltrans for their deviations from standard while turning a blind eye to TxDOT's use of Clearview against the terms of the 2011 Clearview circular and ODOT and NMDOT's everything.
Which ODOT? I'm assuming you meant Ohio and not Oregon?

Probably Oklahoma, where Scott5114 lives.

And known along with neighboring New Mexico to produce some of the strangest signs known to man.

Ohio isn't that much better. They've gone from land of the dancing arrows to land of hostile compliance with the MUTCD. All four are worse than California IMO. The only gripe I have against Caltrans is squeezing shields into weird places to make signs smaller.
Caltrans isn't the only one putting shields into strange places either. NYCDOT (as opposed to NYSDOT) and MDOT (the one in MI) do it too, although for the latter, if two freeways meet at an interchange, then the regular signage is used instead.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

ClassicHasClass

Quote from: TheStranger on December 05, 2022, 05:27:28 AM
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on December 03, 2022, 06:11:13 PM
Less of a thing nowadays, but it's still fun to see multiple shapes on a post, too. I don't think there's an alignment in California that currently signs a US highway, an Interstate and a state highway simultaneously, but there are plenty of twosies.

Not concurrencies per se, but the BGS examples of 3 route types on one sign in this state:

50/99/(formerly Business 80) in downtown Sacramento
101 TO 5/10/60 along the Santa Ana Freeway in downtown Los Angeles (a signage change that occurred in the last few years)

Right, but there's no reassurance shields for these; they're just on BGSes, as you say.

jakeroot

Quote from: 1 on December 05, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
Quote from: cl94 on December 04, 2022, 09:01:07 PM
The only gripe I have against Caltrans is squeezing shields into weird places to make signs smaller.

Lack of permissive lefts is a big issue for me.

Living in a country now where permissive signals are pretty much the only type used, I would concur. I cannot imagine waiting for a green arrow just to make a simple turn across traffic.

Techknow

Quote from: jakeroot on December 06, 2022, 12:50:36 AM
Quote from: 1 on December 05, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
Quote from: cl94 on December 04, 2022, 09:01:07 PM
The only gripe I have against Caltrans is squeezing shields into weird places to make signs smaller.

Lack of permissive lefts is a big issue for me.

Living in a country now where permissive signals are pretty much the only type used, I would concur. I cannot imagine waiting for a green arrow just to make a simple turn across traffic.

I third this, close to my residence there's a green left arrow with a sign that says no turn on red light, so yeah no permissive signal. This is also one of those left turn lanes that are short so it's possible there are too many cars on the adjacent lane for me to be able to get in the lane to turn left.

TheStranger

Quote from: ClassicHasClass on December 05, 2022, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on December 05, 2022, 05:27:28 AM
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on December 03, 2022, 06:11:13 PM
Less of a thing nowadays, but it's still fun to see multiple shapes on a post, too. I don't think there's an alignment in California that currently signs a US highway, an Interstate and a state highway simultaneously, but there are plenty of twosies.

Not concurrencies per se, but the BGS examples of 3 route types on one sign in this state:

50/99/(formerly Business 80) in downtown Sacramento
101 TO 5/10/60 along the Santa Ana Freeway in downtown Los Angeles (a signage change that occurred in the last few years)

Right, but there's no reassurance shields for these; they're just on BGSes, as you say.

50/99/Business 80 trio signposts did exist along W and X Streets in Sacramento for a while, though not on the WX Freeway itself as far as I can remember - I feel like in the time I lived in Sacramento, there weren't any trailblazer shields along the WX at all (but some on the West Sacramento portion of what was Business 80 and is now just solely US 50).

I-5 and I-10 at the East Los Angeles Interchange might be the other example of a concurrency whose entire signage was relegated to BGSes with no trailblazer usage, but that would not be easy to prove unless there were 1960s-1970s Caltrans photos of that southernmost part of the Golden State Freeway.  (This can be contrasted with the Eastshore Freeway in Berkeley, which has always had a concurrency of some sort: US 40/Route 17, US 40/Route 17/I-80, Route 17/I-80, and now I-580/I-80 - the latter of which is DEFINITELY signed with trailblazers)

When was the last three-route-type concurrency with reassurance shields in CA - the old 15/18/91/395 setup near Colton (now 215)?
Chris Sampang

Max Rockatansky


TheStranger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 06, 2022, 11:08:13 AM
There is an occasional I-80BL shield to still be found on the WX:

https://flic.kr/p/2jVgzm5



That's on the West Sacramento segment actually if I'm recognizing the spot correctly (so at Jefferson Boulevard and the former US 40/99E alignment towards the baseball park and Tower Bridge).

the WX segment is just simply the portion that carries 99, if I am not mistaken
Chris Sampang

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: TheStranger on December 07, 2022, 05:48:14 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 06, 2022, 11:08:13 AM
There is an occasional I-80BL shield to still be found on the WX:

https://flic.kr/p/2jVgzm5



That's on the West Sacramento segment actually if I'm recognizing the spot correctly (so at Jefferson Boulevard and the former US 40/99E alignment towards the baseball park and Tower Bridge).

the WX segment is just simply the portion that carries 99, if I am not mistaken

You're right, I looked at the album that photo was from and it is further west.



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