Senator Scott Weiner Petitions Caltrans to remove the Central Freeway in SF

Started by thsftw, November 30, 2022, 02:43:16 PM

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thsftw

https://twitter.com/Scott_Wiener/status/1597978283215179778

As someone who uses it all the time and already hates traffic, I definitely disagree with the commenters in that thread saying "just use public transportation!". I guess (my opinion) they don't realize that a major US highway goes through there and sometimes people need to go through SF.


Scott5114

uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

SectorZ


roadman65

That's the latest trend. Freeways upsetting neighborhoods and they need to go.  The Sheridan in NYC is proof they can be eliminated.

Then that's why KC won't let I-49 be completed. It's all going to disrupt the neighborhood, but we welcome the added traffic on our neighborhood streets though. Sure we'll have some people get struck by a car, but at least no barriers in the area to separate our whole community.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

SeriesE

Make it hard for non-residents to visit the city and then wonder why business is floundering

Scott5114

I mean, most of San Francisco's business isn't tourism-related, so visitors are not really much of a concern. What is a concern is that SF is so gotdam expensive to live in that people practically have to commute in from Wendover, Utah to be able to afford to work there.

Harder to get into SF → fewer employees willing to do it → harder time getting people to work in SF → have to offer higher wages to get employees → prices increase → harder time getting people to work in SF → have to offer higher wages to get employees → prices increase →harder time getting people to work in SF → have to offer higher wages to get employees → prices increase →harder time getting people to work in SF → have to offer higher wages to get employees → prices increase →harder time getting people to work in SF → have to offer higher wages to get employees → prices increase →
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Rick Powell

Quote from: roadman65 on November 30, 2022, 03:30:05 PM
Then that's why KC won't let I-49 be completed. It's all going to disrupt the neighborhood, but we welcome the added traffic on our neighborhood streets though. Sure we'll have some people get struck by a car, but at least no barriers in the area to separate our whole community.
There are efforts underway to look at options for US71 in KC including closing the freeway gap.

citrus



Quote from: thsftw on November 30, 2022, 02:43:16 PM
I guess (my opinion) they don't realize that a major US highway goes through there and sometimes people need to go through SF.

The Central Freeway is not even the best way to go through SF if that's what you're trying to do. East Bay <=> Peninsula is already covered by a freeway route, and Marin <=> Peninsula traffic is using CA-1 (which, if anything, could be a candidate for a better/faster route). Long-distance traffic isn't going straight through SF, either.

Otherwise, it's a stub freeway. You're already going to be on surface streets to get to where you're going, likely several miles of them. A few more blocks is not likely to make a big difference.

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 03:57:34 PM
What is a concern is that SF is so gotdam expensive to live in that people practically have to commute in from Wendover, Utah to be able to afford to work there.
That is true, but the highest-paying jobs are based out of places like Mountain View and Menlo Park that have plenty of freeways....


We forgot about the most important question, though: if this happens, what happens to the route designations?!?!

Scott5114

Quote from: citrus on November 30, 2022, 04:26:29 PM
That is true, but the highest-paying jobs are based out of places like Mountain View and Menlo Park that have plenty of freeways....

Those are kind of least-concern, though. If you make $1,000,000 a day running a Silicon Valley company that makes an app that lets you digitally categorize different types of bacon on the cloud, and you commute in on a helicopter that costs $100,000 a day, you still profit.

The real problem is the people who work at McDonalds in San Francisco proper, and yet can't live anywhere nearby because housing is too exorbitant to live in on a McDonalds salary. They have to live in outer space, make it to work at McDonalds, and hope the time and financial costs of the commute make it economically viable. Eventually it stops making sense to drive two hours each way to make a McDonalds salary and people will stop doing it. The more fucked up you make the commute, the more people fall on the wrong side of that line, and you have to increase wages to make the numbers work well enough for people to take the job.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

skluth

This isn't like the insane idea to remove I-980 across the Bay or the almost as nuts desire to remove I-280 north of the US 101 interchange. As citrus pointed out, this is a stub freeway; it's barely a half mile long. It also has a surface street running under most of it, so there's little question where the traffic would go. The interchange to US 101 would need to be completely redesigned along with the intersections of Division-9th-San Bruno and Division-10th-Portero. By the time all that is done, it's questionable whether there will be much improvement for the locals.

The one thing it does is save a lot of money in the long run. I'm sure the age of that highway goes back to the 1970s. A complete rebuild with earthquake protection for even a short elevated highway is expensive. I don't see the point of removing it unless it's time to completely rebuild it and given it's age that's probably the impetus for removal. In that case I do think a cost-benefit analysis needs to be done. My guess is the Central Freeway becomes history, especially given the political climate in SF.

thsftw

The ironic thing is they just spent tons of money about 20 years ago building the connection to Octavia Blvd (where does the Fell and Oak traffic go once the freeway is torn down, Octavia turned out to be a rush hour disaster already?).

skluth

I'd guess they won't connect Octavia Blvd to Division/13th St if the Central Freeway is removed. Octavia problem solved. That the traffic jam has moved to Division and may be worse is irrelevant. Octavia Blvd will be so much better.

roadman65

Quote from: citrus on November 30, 2022, 04:26:29 PM


Quote from: thsftw on November 30, 2022, 02:43:16 PM
I guess (my opinion) they don't realize that a major US highway goes through there and sometimes people need to go through SF.

The Central Freeway is not even the best way to go through SF if that's what you're trying to do. East Bay <=> Peninsula is already covered by a freeway route, and Marin <=> Peninsula traffic is using CA-1 (which, if anything, could be a candidate for a better/faster route). Long-distance traffic isn't going straight through SF, either.

Otherwise, it's a stub freeway. You're already going to be on surface streets to get to where you're going, likely several miles of them. A few more blocks is not likely to make a big difference.

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 03:57:34 PM
What is a concern is that SF is so gotdam expensive to live in that people practically have to commute in from Wendover, Utah to be able to afford to work there.
That is true, but the highest-paying jobs are based out of places like Mountain View and Menlo Park that have plenty of freeways....


We forgot about the most important question, though: if this happens, what happens to the route designations?!?!

A few more blocks is. Two to three more stoplights.  The point is, whether a glorified ramp or not, there is no need to tear down unless it's ready to collapse nor because a certain politician doesn't like it.  A glorified ramp isn't a thing of worry.  If is there and it does no harm, just appreciate the fact that you some extras that are already in place, and don't go wasting time, money, and noise when you have other issues out there needing more attention than whine about a short freeway to nowhere that provides access between a freeway and a street both part of US 101.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Max Rockatansky

And the huge benefit is what?  The Central Freeway at this point essentially is a glorified connecting on/off ramp and isn't really going to add/subtract anything by being removed.

thenetwork

Quote from: SectorZ on November 30, 2022, 03:21:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 03:14:20 PM
What a weiner.

His first name looks kind of familiar though.

You might be thinking of disgraced former New York Congressman Anthony Weiner.

TheStranger

I use the Central Freeway pretty regularly to get to either Japantown or the Cathedral Hill area, and the Octavia end has been developed into an extension of the Hayes Valley boutiques and restaurants over time.

What I'm not sure about:  Do they want to reroute 101 to 9th/10th like pre-1954?  (I know 7th was the temporary northbound routing in the late 90s - signed by SF's insistence but NEVER the actual 101 route between 80 and Van Ness/Fell).

I'll miss if it it's gone, but I fully realize what I want has no bearing on what will happen here anyway.
Chris Sampang

Plutonic Panda

A tunnel should be built to connect this to the Presidio Parkway. That would take through traffic off of local roads and make it safer for cyclists and pedestrians while increasing connectivity across the region.

ZLoth

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 03:57:34 PMI mean, most of San Francisco's business isn't tourism-related, so visitors are not really much of a concern. What is a concern is that SF is so gotdam expensive to live in that people practically have to commute in from Wendover, Utah to be able to afford to work there.

What you described in San Francisco Bay Area also applies Los Angeles and San Diego. The list goes on and on. There are folks who lived in Sacramento, Auburn, and Placerville who super-commuted to the SF Bay Area which means you wake up, drive to work, work, drive home, grumble, then go to sleep. Forget work-life balance. As I said many times before, I'm so glad to have escaped at the end of 2018.
Don't Drive Distrac... SQUIRREL!

Scott5114

Quote from: ZLoth on December 01, 2022, 04:14:54 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 03:57:34 PMI mean, most of San Francisco's business isn't tourism-related, so visitors are not really much of a concern. What is a concern is that SF is so gotdam expensive to live in that people practically have to commute in from Wendover, Utah to be able to afford to work there.

What you described in San Francisco Bay Area also applies Los Angeles and San Diego. The list goes on and on. There are folks who lived in Sacramento, Auburn, and Placerville who super-commuted to the SF Bay Area which means you wake up, drive to work, work, drive home, grumble, then go to sleep. Forget work-life balance. As I said many times before, I'm so glad to have escaped at the end of 2018.

why are you awake at 3 am
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Bruce

BART exists, but is having a rocky recovery. Muni just opened its delayed and under-capacity Central Subway and is still operating far below its potential. Fixing both of these issues would be better uses of the money than tearing down the Central Freeway for now.
Wikipedia - TravelMapping (100% of WA SRs)

Photos

roadman65

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 30, 2022, 07:11:05 PM
And the huge benefit is what?  The Central Freeway at this point essentially is a glorified connecting on/off ramp and isn't really going to add/subtract anything by being removed.
That's what I said, a glorified ramp. Until it needs to removed over age or something else, tax money could be allocated to other things not to this political nonsense.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 01, 2022, 04:56:53 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on December 01, 2022, 04:14:54 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 03:57:34 PMI mean, most of San Francisco's business isn't tourism-related, so visitors are not really much of a concern. What is a concern is that SF is so gotdam expensive to live in that people practically have to commute in from Wendover, Utah to be able to afford to work there.

What you described in San Francisco Bay Area also applies Los Angeles and San Diego. The list goes on and on. There are folks who lived in Sacramento, Auburn, and Placerville who super-commuted to the SF Bay Area which means you wake up, drive to work, work, drive home, grumble, then go to sleep. Forget work-life balance. As I said many times before, I'm so glad to have escaped at the end of 2018.

why are you awake at 3 am
Because that's when all the fun goes down!

ZLoth

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 01, 2022, 04:56:53 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on December 01, 2022, 04:14:54 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 03:57:34 PMI mean, most of San Francisco's business isn't tourism-related, so visitors are not really much of a concern. What is a concern is that SF is so gotdam expensive to live in that people practically have to commute in from Wendover, Utah to be able to afford to work there.

What you described in San Francisco Bay Area also applies Los Angeles and San Diego. The list goes on and on. There are folks who lived in Sacramento, Auburn, and Placerville who super-commuted to the SF Bay Area which means you wake up, drive to work, work, drive home, grumble, then go to sleep. Forget work-life balance. As I said many times before, I'm so glad to have escaped at the end of 2018.

why are you awake at 3 am

Because one of my customers is having major issues, and the person who is handling the issue paged out to me. The joys of being a team lead.
Don't Drive Distrac... SQUIRREL!

SectorZ

Quote from: thenetwork on November 30, 2022, 09:07:34 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on November 30, 2022, 03:21:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2022, 03:14:20 PM
What a weiner.

His first name looks kind of familiar though.

You might be thinking of disgraced former New York Congressman Anthony Weiner.

:paranoid: It was a sarcastic response to the person I was responding to...

Rothman

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