Florida

[D-Dey65]

I've been working on an attempt to expand the Wikipedia article on hidden Florida State Road 500.

Don't even bother doing so. No matter what sources you'll provide, they'll find an excuse to consider it not good enough.

Hey, I've got to do something with it. Eventually, it should be duplicated on the AARoads Wiki.

On another topic, there's the intersection with FL 326 and Marion CR 35. If there's going to be a jughandle at this intersection for CR 35, shouldn't there be another one for both sides of SR 326?

[Mapmikey]

Okay, onto another topic;

I've been working on an attempt to expand the Wikipedia article on hidden Florida State Road 500. That has lead me to work on other roads that overlap SR 500, including many that I've worked on in the past which have been given citation tags. This require snagging archived pages of Robert V. Droz's old US Highways website, but it has also lead me to Historic Aerials.

And Historic Aerials has confirmed that Magnolia Avenue and Old Gainesville Highway in northern Ocala are historically connected, and thus were both "Old 441." And one map on that site confirms the existence of an Alternate US 441 there.


Now, I have work on finding the evidence regarding US Business 441 in the Mount Dora area.

Droz' site has 441 Business existing in the 1950s.  However, modern 441 hadn't even been started for construction per the 1959 aerial.

FDOT requested US 441 ALT in 1964 for the former routing through Mt Dora, which AASHO declined (post it as OLD US 441, they said).

FDOT also requested 441 ALT for Ocala-Reddick, which AASHO also refused (again suggesting Old 441 instead), though it was noted that AAA told them FDOT had already posted it as 441 ALT

[Max Rockatansky]

Problem is that the Florida State Road Department did a lot of signing of unapproved routes.  Sorting out US 27A was a mess for that very reason.

[D-Dey65]

Problem is that the Florida State Road Department did a lot of signing of unapproved routes.  Sorting out US 27A was a mess for that very reason.

I found another problem. That link went to US 301 in Citra.

This was what I was looking for... or at least it should be. Unfortunately, it goes black for the 1964 aerial shot.

[Mapmikey]

Problem is that the Florida State Road Department did a lot of signing of unapproved routes.  Sorting out US 27A was a mess for that very reason.

I found another problem. That link went to US 301 in Citra.

This was what I was looking for... or at least it should be. Unfortunately, it goes black for the 1964 aerial shot.

what might the 1964 aerial show that the available 1965 aerial does not?

[NJRoadfan]

Thank you for clearing that up. I've read about the scrapped freeways in Pinellas County before but that's the first time I've seen their intended routes. Having all of the freeways they intended to put in would be overkill, but it's been interesting growing up in the area and seeing all and the projects and headaches Pinellas County has had trying to fix traffic from building nothing except 275 (Making parts of US-19 and Gandy Blvd fully limited-access, Gateway Express, and 6-laning almost all arterial roads come to mind)

Been doing my share of driving across Pinellas County this weekend. Despite the lack of freeways, somehow the boulevards do a decent job moving traffic across the peninsula. Its certainly quicker moving traffic compared to the Davenport/Haines City/NE Polk County disaster.

[SilverMustang2011]

Been doing my share of driving across Pinellas County this weekend. Despite the lack of freeways, somehow the boulevards do a decent job moving traffic across the peninsula. Its certainly quicker moving traffic compared to the Davenport/Haines City/NE Polk County disaster.

I agree, they create a semi-grid system that makes moving around Pinellas manageable. To be fair to NE Polk County, the swampland up there makes new road construction difficult (Poinciana Parkway's pre-construction headaches come to mind), but there is no reason US 17 should still be two lanes between Haines City and Intercession City and US 27 is the only major North-South road in the area. It also puts a lot of pressure on I-4 from Exits 55 to 58, but in general I believe I-4 between Tampa and Orlando would be significantly less dangerous if it wasn't the only major road connecting the two.

[ElishaGOtis]

Been doing my share of driving across Pinellas County this weekend. Despite the lack of freeways, somehow the boulevards do a decent job moving traffic across the peninsula. Its certainly quicker moving traffic compared to the Davenport/Haines City/NE Polk County disaster.

I agree, they create a semi-grid system that makes moving around Pinellas manageable. To be fair to NE Polk County, the swampland up there makes new road construction difficult (Poinciana Parkway's pre-construction headaches come to mind), but there is no reason US 17 should still be two lanes between Haines City and Intercession City and US 27 is the only major North-South road in the area. It also puts a lot of pressure on I-4 from Exits 55 to 58, but in general I believe I-4 between Tampa and Orlando would be significantly less dangerous if it wasn't the only major road connecting the two.

Poinciana West Extension/Connector appears to have the intent to minimize this bottleneck, at least in-part. It is currently planned have a direct connection with 429, effectively acting as a continuation of the corridor, though that may change as far as I'm aware.

See this post from 2013 and the corresponding 1970s map I scanned.
There was not a planned extension of I-175, but I-375 had one on the 1985 Recommended Principal Street and Highway Plan that Dan linked to at http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00017174/00001/2x?vo=32&vp=0,3777

Thank you for clearing that up. I've read about the scrapped freeways in Pinellas County before but that's the first time I've seen their intended routes. Having all of the freeways they intended to put in would be overkill, but it's been interesting growing up in the area and seeing all and the projects and headaches Pinellas County has had trying to fix traffic from building nothing except 275 (Making parts of US-19 and Gandy Blvd fully limited-access, Gateway Express, and 6-laning almost all arterial roads come to mind)

I really appreciate FL's new direction in Freeway construction. A single LA-upgrade project seems to be of much lower cost than the combined cost of building BOTH a new greenfield corridor and widening an existing corridor. This seems to follow a classic engineering motto: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Why spend the money to build an entirely new corridor when the current corridor can provide the same benefits?

US-27 south of Orlando also needs a serious review, as it's been ENGULFED by sprawl. I'm wondering how Central Polk Pkwy will tie into this and Poinciana in the future.

[D-Dey65]

Problem is that the Florida State Road Department did a lot of signing of unapproved routes.  Sorting out US 27A was a mess for that very reason.

I found another problem. That link went to US 301 in Citra.

This was what I was looking for... or at least it should be. Unfortunately, it goes black for the 1964 aerial shot.

what might the 1964 aerial show that the available 1965 aerial does not?

A portion of the land completely blacked out.

The 1957 aerial blacks out some land too, but in a different region.

The 1956 aerial blacks out the other side.

[FLRoads]

Problem is that the Florida State Road Department did a lot of signing of unapproved routes.  Sorting out US 27A was a mess for that very reason.

I found another problem. That link went to US 301 in Citra.

This was what I was looking for... or at least it should be. Unfortunately, it goes black for the 1964 aerial shot.

what might the 1964 aerial show that the available 1965 aerial does not?

A portion of the land completely blacked out.

The 1957 aerial blacks out some land too, but in a different region.

The 1956 aerial blacks out the other side.

Try these links from the UF Aerial Photography Digital Collection site:

1949 Aerial: https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071768/00010/images/156

1956 Aerial: https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071768/00012/images/15

1957 Aerial: https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071768/00017/images/91

1964 Aerial: https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071768/00020/zoom/57

When you zoom in on each aerial, it clearly shows the connection between Magnolia Avenue and Old Gainesville Highway. The 1949 aerial clearly shows it as one continuous road.

[NJRoadfan]

My travels today took me onto the Florida Turnpike for the first time. There be hills in this state! The widening north of FL-50 can't come fast enough though. Traffic (and pavement) is terrible on that stretch.

[The Ghostbuster]

Are there any updates on the study for the northern extension of the Florida's Turnpike? I'm sure people along the proposed corridor are still up-in-arms about it, like they were in 2021: https://floridaphoenix.com/2021/11/18/the-florida-dots-latest-billionaire-boulevard-plan-has-rural-fl-outraged/?eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=80e13ea0-ef7b-4f2c-ad26-d43f3cdea27c.

[Sani]

Are there any updates on the study for the northern extension of the Florida's Turnpike? I'm sure people along the proposed corridor are still up-in-arms about it, like they were in 2021: https://floridaphoenix.com/2021/11/18/the-florida-dots-latest-billionaire-boulevard-plan-has-rural-fl-outraged/?eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=80e13ea0-ef7b-4f2c-ad26-d43f3cdea27c.

I tried to pull up the page on the Florida Turnpike website, since it's still listed under Featured Projects, but all the links go to a 404 error. Per this news article from August of 2022, it looks like it's dead, and further studies will be focused on expanding I-75 north of the turnpike instead.

[ElishaGOtis]

Are there any updates on the study for the northern extension of the Florida's Turnpike? I'm sure people along the proposed corridor are still up-in-arms about it, like they were in 2021: https://floridaphoenix.com/2021/11/18/the-florida-dots-latest-billionaire-boulevard-plan-has-rural-fl-outraged/?eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=80e13ea0-ef7b-4f2c-ad26-d43f3cdea27c.

I tried to pull up the page on the Florida Turnpike website, since it's still listed under Featured Projects, but all the links go to a 404 error. Per this news article from August of 2022, it looks like it's dead, and further studies will be focused on expanding I-75 north of the turnpike instead.

RUMOR: During a meeting I attended with a few FDOT officials last month, there was some discussion on the possibility of combining the two projects into one: extend the Turnpike ALONG I-75, if the ROW allows for it. I can't be for certain this is currently under formal consideration, but it has been a topic of discussion involving the future of this project.

My travels today took me onto the Florida Turnpike for the first time. There be hills in this state! The widening north of FL-50 can't come fast enough though. Traffic (and pavement) is terrible on that stretch.

I'm quite surprised (and honestly, IMPRESSED) that the speed limit is maintained at 70mph, even with the uneven pavement and numerous lane shifts. They've been making quite a bit of progress on the project, including placing some of the Northbound lanes onto the right-half of the "final" roadbed. I'll try and get some pictures if I can. Recently, there have been quite a few full-closures of the corridor at night, possibly to accelerate work on the bridges.

[SilverMustang2011]

RUMOR: During a meeting I attended with a few FDOT officials last month, there was some discussion on the possibility of combining the two projects into one: extend the Turnpike ALONG I-75, if the ROW allows for it. I can't be for certain this is currently under formal consideration, but it has been a topic of discussion involving the future of this project.

I'm quite surprised (and honestly, IMPRESSED) that the speed limit is maintained at 70mph, even with the uneven pavement and numerous lane shifts. They've been making quite a bit of progress on the project, including placing some of the Northbound lanes onto the right-half of the "final" roadbed. I'll try and get some pictures if I can. Recently, there have been quite a few full-closures of the corridor at night, possibly to accelerate work on the bridges.

If said Turnpike extension along the ROW works similar to the I-4 Ultimate lanes do, I would certainly take them in peak hours, especially with how congested the 19 or so miles of 75 The FL Turnpike to Exit 358 North of Ocala get. It could be similar to the NJ Turnpike too, with the tolled lanes creating separate cars only and car and truck lanes.

After driving that section of Turnpike twice in the last week, traffic tends to go slower than the 70 mph limit would suggest because of the lane shifts and pavement issues you mentioned. The hills between US 27 and Montverde also slow drivers down who aren't exactly used to seeing them in Florida.

[ElishaGOtis]

Quote fixed:

RUMOR: During a meeting I attended with a few FDOT officials last month, there was some discussion on the possibility of combining the two projects into one: extend the Turnpike ALONG I-75, if the ROW allows for it. I can't be for certain this is currently under formal consideration, but it has been a topic of discussion involving the future of this project.

I'm quite surprised (and honestly, IMPRESSED) that the speed limit is maintained at 70mph, even with the uneven pavement and numerous lane shifts. They've been making quite a bit of progress on the project, including placing some of the Northbound lanes onto the right-half of the "final" roadbed. I'll try and get some pictures if I can. Recently, there have been quite a few full-closures of the corridor at night, possibly to accelerate work on the bridges.

If said Turnpike extension along the ROW works similar to the I-4 Ultimate lanes do, I would certainly take them in peak hours, especially with how congested the 19 or so miles of 75 The FL Turnpike to Exit 358 North of Ocala get. It could be similar to the NJ Turnpike too, with the tolled lanes creating separate cars only and car and truck lanes.

After driving that section of Turnpike twice in the last week, traffic tends to go slower than the 70 mph limit would suggest because of the lane shifts and pavement issues you mentioned. The hills between US 27 and Montverde also slow drivers down who aren't exactly used to seeing them in Florida.

I-75 towards Sarasota is posed to receive a true local/express system, though I don't know if any vehicle restrictions are considered for it. I believe this project was brought up a few months ago on this forum. FDOT also investigated possible locations for "truck-only" lanes in many places, but I don't believe that project went anywhere.
https://www.swflinterstates.com/i75-south-corridor/

A speed limit that's an actual limit!? How is that possible!?  

For a simple comparison, CFX put many of their widening projects at 65 or 55 under similar conditions, though said projects did lack appropriate right-hand shoulders. It does appear FHP tends to enforce 70 on this segment of Tpk more than they would elsewhere.

[74/171FAN]

For anyone that did not know already, the FL 538 widening was completed back in December. 

[D-Dey65]

Perhaps I should've searched for the discussion on other threads, but I have to bring it up now, since I passed through the Georgia Bend recently, and now realized I needed more research on it.

While driving north on GA 121-23, I spotted the obligatory directional guide road sign before the intersection with GA 94 in Saint George, Georgia. In this case the destinations offered on the sign are Folkston, Georgia straight ahead, Moniac, Georgia to the left, and Crawford, Florida to the right.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NB_GA_121-23_in_St_George,_Georgia-08.jpg

The trouble is, to get to Crawford, Florida, you need an off-road vehicle, preferably a four-wheel-drive vehicle with high ground clearance.  As we all know, GA 94 connects the gaps of FL 2, but the east end of this gap is Nassau County Road 2. Nassau CR 2 ends at Nassau CR 121, and beyond that it turns into Crawford Road, which is a long dirt road. So, in this case I'm glad this former segment of FL 2 was downgraded to a county road. But Crawford Road actually goes southeast towards Crawford which is along US 301 southwest of Callahan. Which means if you had a properly equipped SUV, or FDOT decided they wanted to reupgrade the road and extend the designation further east, you could actually drive from GA 121-23 in St. George to US 301 in Crawford.

[lordsutch]

The trouble is, to get to Crawford, Florida, you need an off-road vehicle, preferably a four-wheel-drive vehicle with high ground clearance.  As we all know, GA 94 connects the gaps of FL 2, but the east end of this gap is Nassau County Road 2. Nassau CR 2 ends at Nassau CR 121, and beyond that it turns into Crawford Road, which is a long dirt road. So, in this case I'm glad this former segment of FL 2 was downgraded to a county road. But Crawford Road actually goes southeast towards Crawford which is along US 301 southwest of Callahan. Which means if you had a properly equipped SUV, or FDOT decided they wanted to reupgrade the road and extend the designation further east, you could actually drive from GA 121-23 in St. George to US 301 in Crawford.

Recent satellite imagery on Google shows that Crawford Road from CR 121 east to U.S. 301 has been paved, apparently to serve some solar farms in the vicinity, even though the latest Street View imagery suggests it was unpaved in 2019.

[D-Dey65]

The trouble is, to get to Crawford, Florida, you need an off-road vehicle, preferably a four-wheel-drive vehicle with high ground clearance.  As we all know, GA 94 connects the gaps of FL 2, but the east end of this gap is Nassau County Road 2. Nassau CR 2 ends at Nassau CR 121, and beyond that it turns into Crawford Road, which is a long dirt road. So, in this case I'm glad this former segment of FL 2 was downgraded to a county road. But Crawford Road actually goes southeast towards Crawford which is along US 301 southwest of Callahan. Which means if you had a properly equipped SUV, or FDOT decided they wanted to reupgrade the road and extend the designation further east, you could actually drive from GA 121-23 in St. George to US 301 in Crawford.

Recent satellite imagery on Google shows that Crawford Road from CR 121 east to U.S. 301 has been paved, apparently to serve some solar farms in the vicinity, even though the latest Street View imagery suggests it was unpaved in 2019.

So does that mean they could upgrade and extend Nassau CR 2 to a state road if they wanted to? Because if anything, they should upgrade CR 228 between I-10 and US 301.

On another topic, is there a hidden state road designation for the connecting road between I-4 and US 92 west of Daytona Beach? SR 400C or SR 600C, or something like that?

[roadman65]

The DDI in Orlando at I-4 and SR 482 is open.
https://www.fox35orlando.com/video/1423358

[ElishaGOtis]

The DDI in Orlando at I-4 and SR 482 is open.
https://www.fox35orlando.com/video/1423358

Here's an image of it in "action," from the FL511 cameras


Link to Camera: https://fl511.com/map#camera-2272--11

[roadman65]

I heard from a reliable source that it had its first fatality already with a driver going the wrong way on one of the ramps.

[SilverMustang2011]

I bet it'll be somewhat safer when the loop ramp to SB Turkey Lake Rd from WB Sand Lake opens and the final road shoulders are in place, but I'm surprised they switched it to a DDI at this point in the process. I'm also worried about the traffic signals on either side of the interchange, if the University Parkway DDI in Sarasota is anything to go by that creates a lot of congestion the DDI design can't fix.

[D-Dey65]

Any news on how this meeting on some Pasco County Road widening proposals went?
https://www.pascocountyfl.net/_T18_R84.php
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/28.2587083,-82.6740792/28.2367921,-82.644774/@28.2558315,-82.6659954,14z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-82.6283407!2d28.2706238!3s0x88c297422348b18f:0xf7e3b1ce65eeddae!1m0!3e0?entry=ttu

I hope the roads are going to be widened.