NC: Proposed I-777 (Wilkesboro to Winston-Salem along US 421)

[Strider]

Lol oh lord.. now Texas and North Carolina is competing to see how many new interstates both states are going to build... SMH.

NC NEEDS to finish I-73, I-74, I-42, I-87, I-587 and I-685 BEFORE they ever think about adding more interstates... how embarrassing for my state.

Hey, don't forget the I-795 extension south of Goldsboro to I-40!  That's still around...right!?

And I-274!

AND it just hit me, when is the part of I-785 north of Greensboro going to finally be signed as Interstate, hasn't that been on the books for over a decade or more now?


[/quote]


I-795 is still planned to be extended to I-40. They're under development. I-274 is already under construction (at least around the future I-74/NC-74/US 52 interchange north of Winston Salem), but the only section of future I-274 is about to start construction soon is the section between NC 67 and NC 74/US 52 interchange starting in 2028.

As for I-785, it cannot be signed until the section between I-785/I-840 and Rockingham county line is upgraded. Only one section that is under construction so far is the Reddy Fork Parkway interchange.

[JayhawkCO]

Will they make it legal to have a casino nearby?

[bob7374]

This proposed route connects Winston-Salem to... nothing. Wilksboro, a bustling metropolis with... 3,000 population? Yadkinville, the next booming town of over 2,000 population? There's no ultimate destination on either end of the proposed corridor. This might be the most "pork" of any interstate highway proposal in North Carolina history.

Hey, North Wilkesboro is once again an active NASCAR track!  (Though the track access from the existing, not-yet-an-interstate US 421 freeway is lacking - an issue that came up when the raceway restarted full operations in 2022-2023)

Funny enough, it hits me that two of the once-endangered older NASCAR tracks that were seen as "isolated" for years compared to a Charlotte or Daytona - North Wilkesboro and Rockingham - now or will potentially have connections to the Interstate system, all because of the I-73/I-74 saga and this planned I-777. Me and a friend actually did drive from Winston-Salem to Rockingham along 74 in 2021 to pass by the track, as part of a Daytona roadtrip for the fall Cup race.  (Randleman, the town where Petty Enterprises was based for years, is also right off 73/74)

Ironically, none of that actually changes that these two locations have been this close to a limited access route for years, other than that a fancy new, more marketable shield has been or will be slapped onto these roads.

It's fascinating comparing this protocol to California, where 58/99 would have been Interstates long ago by NC standards (never mind that 99 is the pre-1958 planned I-5), and likely 101.  (101 and 58 were pre-1968 submissions that got rejected)

Lol oh lord.. now Texas and North Carolina is competing to see how many new interstates both states are going to build... SMH.

NC NEEDS to finish I-73, I-74, I-42, I-87, I-587 and I-685 BEFORE they ever think about adding more interstates... how embarrassing for my state.

Hey, don't forget the I-795 extension south of Goldsboro to I-40!  That's still around...right!?

And I-274!

AND it just hit me, when is the part of I-785 north of Greensboro going to finally be signed as Interstate, hasn't that been on the books for over a decade or more now?

The 2024-2033 STIP document broke the project upgrading US 29 to I-785 into 2 parts. The first part from I-840 to NC 150 is to start construction in 2031, the second part, from NC 150 to Bus. 29 in Reidsville is currently not funded, and therefore can't start until at least 2034. So no additional signing of I-785 for at least 10 years.

[Henry]

Starting a separate thread on anything relating to the re-designation of US 421 near Winston-Salem as I-777, which was just proposed a day or two ago for the first time.

https://www.wavy.com/news/north-carolina/road-from-wilkesboro-to-i-40-in-winston-salem-could-become-i-777/

Reddit discussion thread on the concept:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NorthCarolina/comments/1c0pmms/road_from_wilkesboro_to_i40_in_winstonsalem_could/

Linkedin post from the person at Carolina Core who is presenting this (the same organization that came up with planned I-685)
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/loren-hill-549990151_future-interstate-777-what-a-lucky-number-activity-7183403316243013634-6gyz/

---

One key question that has not yet been answered in the articles: will I-777 be applied to just the section of 421 from Wilkesboro to the western 40/421 junction, or will it include the Death Valley section of former I-40 all the way to Kernersville?

It will not. Winston-Salem insisted that the former I-40 lose its designation as Business 40 and that it should not have any interstate designation.

Also, Death Valley is in Greensboro, not Winston-Salem. It was once signed as Business 40, but now it's I-40 once again.

The question here is, why I-777? It's not like any other spur number of I-77 isn't available. I-177 was once the closest to being used (as a spur into Cleveland, back when I-77 was going to Detroit), but then it was decided that Cleveland was a more worthy terminus for its parent, and that was it. There are two I-277s (Charlotte and Akron), and after that, nothing.

Will they make it legal to have a casino nearby?

I-377, I-577 and I-977 could've also been used, but if they insist on I-777, they really ought to build a casino off at least one of its exits to justify the designation.

(On a side note, has there ever been a NV 777 or NJ 777?)

[epzik8]

Lol oh lord.. now Texas and North Carolina is competing to see how many new interstates both states are going to build... SMH.

This is what I thought when I heard the news, but it may just be worth it if it gives the Wilkes County area more visibility, which was one of the goals for designating 264 from Wilson to Greenville as 587.

[kurumi]

I remember NC wanted to sign I-587 as north/south because it's an odd number (regardless of its direction on the ground) but they relented and are signing it east/west.

Before I found out the above, I was wondering whether Wilkesboro would end up being "north" or "south" of I-77

[formulanone]

Will I-777 require ETOPS approval before or after AASHTO approval?

[JayhawkCO]

Will I-777 require ETOPS approval before or after AASHTO approval?

It would probably be safer if they named it I-A350.

[formulanone]

Will I-777 require ETOPS approval before or after AASHTO approval?

It would probably be safer if they named it I-A350.

I thought that was the infamous Alaskan bridge to nowhere?

[cowboy_wilhelm]

The recently upgraded stretch of U.S. 70/future I-42 east of Dover has an AADT of only 11,000-12,000... but... beach homes.

Most of the route is carrying over 30,000 AADT and is plagued with traffic signals in those busy areas. The upgrades are warranted, blue shield or not.

What does spending tens of millions of dollars to add shoulders between Dover and New Bern for an already grade-separated, four-lane divided freeway with a 70 MPH speed limit and 12,000 AADT have to do with building bypasses around Kinston and Havelock and upgrading other portions of the corridor?

One might even say that "The area is very fortunate to even have a limited access / interstate quality route connecting through to begin with, nothing more is needed. [It] will function adequately as a four lane freeway for the long term future [...] no large scale, interstate specific targeted upgrades are necessary."

An interchange could have been built at La Grange with that funding rather than adding shoulders through nowhere. Something with actual benefit and to help upgrade the corridor to a freeway.

At least there's a more plausible case in connecting two metropolitan areas of over 2 million population that are currently not linked by an interstate highway or limited access highway. US-421 isn't exactly connecting to any major metropolitan areas or population centers on the west end, and again - is already built up as a limited access highway.

Why spend several billion dollars for a highway that mostly sees less than 10k vehicles just because there are two metro areas 175 miles apart? Even if a completed interstate doubles traffic volumes you're at what, a whopping 16k vehicles for a large portion? Great benefit/cost ratio there. There's a reason future I-87 upgrades repeatedly fail to secure any funding in the STIP or receive any federal grant dollars. Do we still build interstates just to connect dots on a map? Those days should be over.

U.S. 421, even though "it doesn't connect to anything significant/nothing," has about the same amount or more traffic than parts of U.S. 70/future I-42, U.S. 264/I-587, U.S. 421/I-685, U.S. 74/I-74 and most of future U.S. 17/I-87. I guess those people are going somewhere, even if it's not a metro area. Do we ignore traffic volume and capacity and only upgrade roads that "go somewhere." Maybe we should have left those hillbillies with dirt roads since there ain't no cities up thar?

Regardless, ALL of these future interstate shoulder widening projects are a joke and colossal waste of hundreds of millions of dollars that could be better spent on projects that actually address traffic capacity for the existing system.

[froggie]

It will not. Winston-Salem insisted that the former I-40 lose its designation as Business 40 and that it should not have any interstate designation.

Also, Death Valley is in Greensboro, not Winston-Salem. It was once signed as Business 40, but now it's I-40 once again.

They're not talking about Greensboro or the Death Valley segment there.  They really are talking about the former Business 40 segment through Winston-Salem.

[Life in Paradise]

I guess if North Carolina wanted to go "whole hog" on this as they have done with other interstates, they could make it I-42 and co sign it with I-40 and part of I-85 from Raleigh.  Hey, they could pull another number out of their posterity and make it I-46.  With either one they could spend some more money to extend it to Boone, and then to the TN border in hopes that they could connect it to I-26 (right though the national rec area).  Cha-ching!

[TheStranger]

It will not. Winston-Salem insisted that the former I-40 lose its designation as Business 40 and that it should not have any interstate designation.

Also, Death Valley is in Greensboro, not Winston-Salem. It was once signed as Business 40, but now it's I-40 once again.

They're not talking about Greensboro or the Death Valley segment there.  They really are talking about the former Business 40 segment through Winston-Salem.

I mistyped in my original post, will correct that confusing reference there.

[nerdom]

What does spending tens of millions of dollars to add shoulders between Dover and New Bern for an already grade-separated, four-lane divided freeway with a 70 MPH speed limit and 12,000 AADT have to do with building bypasses around Kinston and Havelock and upgrading other portions of the corridor?

really? to secure an interstate designation for the entire corridor. which in the eyes of many benefits economic development. I get it. spending millions to make highways with shoulders for pretty shields seems wasteful but US17 and US70 are the most deserving corridors of an interstate designation statewide. throw US74 in there too.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

The route [U.S. 421] carries 18,000 - 20,000 AADT and will function adequately as a four lane freeway for the long term future. [...] no large scale, interstate specific targeted upgrades are necessary.

The recently upgraded stretch of U.S. 70/future I-42 east of Dover has an AADT of only 11,000-12,000.

Most of the route is carrying over 30,000 AADT and is plagued with traffic signals in those busy areas. The upgrades are warranted, blue shield or not.

(The aforementioned shoulder upgrades east of Dover are warranted...? I should have specified interstate shoulders. No other U.S. 70 projects were mentioned.)

You can't say interstate upgrades are not warranted on one route due to the AADT and then turn around and say they are warranted on another route with less traffic, blue shield or not. Yes, freeway upgrades are warranted for the other busy segments, without a blue shield and the associated costs to upgrade the entire corridor.

And most of the route does not carry over 30,000 AADT.

AADT	Miles	Percent of Route
11,000-20,000	44.28	32.8%
20,000-30,000	51.12	37.8%
30,000+	39.66	29.4%
	135.06

What does spending tens of millions of dollars to add shoulders between Dover and New Bern for an already grade-separated, four-lane divided freeway with a 70 MPH speed limit and 12,000 AADT have to do with building bypasses around Kinston and Havelock and upgrading other portions of the corridor?

really? to secure an interstate designation for the entire corridor. which in the eyes of many benefits economic development. I get it. spending millions to make highways with shoulders for pretty shields seems wasteful but US17 and US70 are the most deserving corridors of an interstate designation statewide. throw US74 in there too.

From the quote above, how is spending millions of dollars on shoulder upgrades for the least traveled segment warranted, blue shield or not, when there are still miles and miles of freeway upgrades, interchanges, etc. around Princeton that are still unfunded and the Kinston Bypass has been in the planning stages for decades and is still unfunded for probably another decade or more? Why not focus on upgrading the corridor into a freeway before starting on these asinine shoulder projects, then go for the interstate designation? Oh, that's right, federal dollars to pay for interstate maintenance for "future" interstate intrastate corridors that will take half a century or longer to finish.

I will die on this hill.

[sprjus4]

What does spending tens of millions of dollars to add shoulders between Dover and New Bern for an already grade-separated, four-lane divided freeway with a 70 MPH speed limit and 12,000 AADT have to do with building bypasses around Kinston and Havelock and upgrading other portions of the corridor?

It was a $25 million to resurface and reconstruct 32 miles of freeway. They added paved shoulders in the process. A routine resurfacing project would've cost similar. Look at similar projects on US-64, US-17, US-264, etc. that did not include paved shoulders. They are roughly the same cost per mile.

They didn't have to wide or replace any bridge structures, or redesign any roadway features on US-70.

Should they not proceed with routine maintenance such as a resurfacing?

Paving shoulders where they are already built and graded (just not paved) is a fairly cheap addition to the routine resurfacing and adds a crucial safety feature for a 70 mph freeway. It adds room for error in emergency situations, whether it be swerving to avoid something, a safe place to pull over in an incident, etc. It is definitely worthwhile - regardless of where it is. The same could be said on US-421 - the problem is, a lot of other features about that road do not meet interstate standards, and would cost significant money to address. That issue did not exist on US-70. So it's a poor comparison to make.

[wdcrft63]

I remember NC wanted to sign I-587 as north/south because it's an odd number (regardless of its direction on the ground) but they relented and are signing it east/west.

Before I found out the above, I was wondering whether Wilkesboro would end up being "north" or "south" of I-77

FWIW US 421 is signed north-south throughout NC. This is fairly reasonable from Wilmington to Greensboro but not west of Greensboro.

[LilianaUwU]

With this bullshit, it makes me wonder: when will the AASHTO gain some balls and refuse to approve the numbers written into law by congresspeople?

[Rothman]

With this bullshit, it makes me wonder: when will the AASHTO gain some balls and refuse to approve the numbers written into law by congresspeople?

Read the last part of your post really slowly...

There's a reason why Congress is called the legislative branch of our government...

[LilianaUwU]

There's a reason why Congress is called the legislative branch of our government...

Because they can override a process that shouldn't have government interference?

[Rothman]

There's a reason why Congress is called the legislative branch of our government...

Because they can override a process that shouldn't have government interference?

...

Because they make the laws and AASHTO was only filling a legislative void when it took upon itself that role.

Also, please review what "AASHTO" stands for if you think they're not government...