Traffic signals:
1) The new Mn/DOT signals are going away from the green base, yellow pole, grey arm and light pole design in favor what looks like an unpainted metalic finish for the entire assembly, one of the new ones is at MN 77 and Shakopee Road. It kind of looks like unbrushed aluminum, but I would think that would be too expensive for signal poles.
2.) I also spotted a new Minneapolis style, at Franklin and East River Road. It looks like the heads are designed to be LED from the begining, they're too thin to hold an incandescent lamp, and the back looks to be a heatsink.
3.) Flashing Yellow Arrows are starting to spread, all the lights between US 212 and MN 5 on County 4 have been converted, Minnesota exclusively uses [a four lens assembly] for FYAs.
Speed limit on US 212 from the drop from 65 east of County 4 to just west of US 169 has been raised from 55 to 60.
There's somewhat of a spat about a garden variety overpass replacement. The Xerxes Ave "truck eating bridge" is going to be replaced in order to build a westbound auxillary lane between I-35W and MN 100. The original plan was to allow space in the I-494 median for future transit use, but realizing now that will be decades, if ever, the proposed Xerxes bridge will not accomodate that. Richfield is mad because they paid for extra ROW for the Penn project to accomodate that, and wants to be paid back. If they want to play nasty they could withold municipal consent and send it to binding arbitration.
In "how many people does it take not to change a light bulb" there was an ancient mercury fixture at 90th and 35W. I contacted Mn/DOT twice, The City of Bloomington twice, and XCEL Energy (which maintains city owned lighting) twice. In the end it turns out it was replaced by a pole across the road and missed getting removed, so it is now gone.
I'm seeing more and more rectanguler 3 digit rectangular sign blanks for state routes in the metro. I contacted Mn/DOT asking if it was a new standard, and they said "no, but we sometimes use on for certain digits that are hard to fit on a square blank like a '6'". However I've seen them for all numbers, including ones like 101 which they should have no trouble fitting, and unanswered is how they managed to fit them in the past since the present design dates from the 1960s. It does seem to vary, generally the rectangular ones are newer, but I saw a faded rectangular 101 in the middle of some new square 101s.
Also, a while ago I asked if there were any plans to change the design, and I was told officially no, but some of the engineer types would like to drop the gold and use white instead, since the gold tends to fade badly to the point they're almost white anyway. I think the blue and gold are beautiful on a green sign (and thus form the unofficial state colors) but they don't stay that way.
Quote from: Mdcastle on April 18, 2012, 07:54:36 PMit was replaced by a pole across the road and missed getting removed, so it is now gone.
could you please clarify this? if it was not removed, why is it gone?
I believe what he meant was that there were many of these lights. They were replaced by new poles on the opposite side of the road. This pole was not removed right after the new poles were installed, but it has since been removed.
Quote from: adt1982 on April 18, 2012, 10:24:34 PM
I believe what he meant was that there were many of these lights. They were replaced by new poles on the opposite side of the road. This pole was not removed right after the new poles were installed, but it has since been removed.
gotcha, thanks!
Quote from: Mdcastle on April 18, 2012, 07:54:36 PM
3.) Flashing Yellow Arrows are starting to spread, all the lights between US 212 and MN 5 on County 4 have been converted, Minnesota exclusively uses their standard 5 lens vertical head used for protected/permissive installations for FYAs.
I'm confused... why would they use a 5-section head for FYAs? I haven't been out to Eden Prairie for a while, so I'm not sure what they're doing out there, but the FYAs I've seen by MnDOT and Hennepin County are the standard 4-head vertical FYA signals.
Yes, that's right, it was replaced by a new sodium light across the street but they didn't remove the old one at the time. I hate to be the one causing abandoned infrastructure to be lost, but we're talking about a single 1960?s streetlight, not a camelback truss bridge. I was hoping it was still meant to be in use and they'd relamp it, but apparently that's not the case.
I caused some highway signs to be removed too, US 169 used to be signed between Virginia and the "Ely Cutoff" even though it officially ends at 9th St N in Virginia (where US 169 used to meet US 53 before US 169 was rerouted). I informed Mn/DOT of the error, but they simply took down the US 169 shields without putting up any MN 169 ones.
FYAs- actually they may have been 4 lens arrays. I'll have to check when I get out there again, I wasn't close to them. Now that I think of it I also noted some FYAs on MN 22 in Mankato when I was down there two weeks ago.
Two familiar companies are bidding for work in the Stillwater Bridge. URS Consultants, which was the consultanting firm which reviewed the I-35W bridge just before it collapsed, and also was a consultant on the Sabo bridge, where cable anchors catastrophically failed. Governor Dayton is not amused and is considering an executive order not allowing them to have any more state contracts.
Also bidding for a contract to review the Stillwater design is Jacobs engineering, sucessor company to the original I-35W designers. URS has settled litigation without admitting fault; I'm not sure of the status of litigation concerning Jacobs.
Quote from: Mdcastle on May 02, 2012, 09:54:04 PM
Two familiar companies are bidding for work in the Stillwater Bridge. URS Consultants, which was the consultanting firm which reviewed the I-35W bridge just before it collapsed, and also was a consultant on the Sabo bridge, where cable anchors catastrophically failed. Governor Dayton is not amused and is considering an executive order not allowing them to have any more state contracts.
Also bidding for a contract to review the Stillwater design is Jacobs engineering, sucessor company to the original I-35W designers. URS has settled litigation without admitting fault; I'm not sure of the status of litigation concerning Jacobs.
The guy who was the State Bridge Engineer when I worked for MnDOT in the late 1980s went to work for URS after he retired from the state. I believe he was on the project team that consulted for MnDOT on the I-35W downtown Mississippi River bridge before it collapsed.
What's the work being bid for the Stillwater bridge? Is it final design or something else?
Quote from: Mdcastle on April 18, 2012, 07:54:36 PM
Traffic signals:
1) The new Mn/DOT signals are going away from the green base, yellow pole, grey arm and light pole design in favor what looks like an unpainted metalic finish for the entire assembly, one of the new ones is at MN 77 and Shakopee Road. It kind of looks like unbrushed aluminum, but I would think that would be too expensive for signal poles.
Probably just galvanized steel. Very utilitarian look but lasts a long time. Painted steel can start to rust after not too long if the powder coating process isn't done well.
Yes, I looked at some of the minutes of the Mn/DOT signal comittee and galvanized steel is the new standard. (For some reason I thought galvanized steel couldn't be left exposed.) Mn/DOTs position is a galvanized finish is a suitable finish, and if local agencies want it painted now they have to pay 100% of that cost. Like all kinds of other exposed metal, say cars, traffic signals rust badly up here after a few years. I found out something else neat, in Eden Prairie there's a mast-arm mounted doghouse signal that operates split phase at peak periods, and permissive with a FYA at non-peak periods, Mn/DOT got pmission from the feds to use it and it's the first in the country, although Mn/DOT intends to expand coverage.
Bridge Contracts: there are three out right now. 1)Test shafts, awarded to Bolander and Sons for $3.5 million, 2)Final design, which URS is among the bidders, 3)Peer review of final design, of which Jacobs is a bidder.
A contractor goofed and put up some "US 35W" shields for the MN 13 construction. Unfortunately they were fixed by the time I got back with my camera.
Post Merge: May 15, 2012, 05:48:42 AM
Of note from my weekend trip:
Overhead signs along MN 60 and US 169 are being replaced with reflective signs and the lighting is being shut off
Not much activity along MN 60 expressway conversion southeast of Worthington. A lot of traffic was using the "old detour" even though they aren't supposed to. The "old" detour had a dynamic "your speed" signs, and they uprooted and left the signs at the entrances to the old detour rather than removing them. I'm thinking they might restore that as the detour route now that the frost damage has been fixed. The two lane sections are among the selected two-lane roads signed at 60mph.
Business MN 60 through St. James is now signed with standard Mn/DOT business signs.
When entering the two lanes sections of MN 60 (to be converted to 4 lanes in an upcoming pork barrell project) they want to make sure you're aware, of note the advance signs read "4 lanes end" not the usual "Expressway Ends", there is a flashing outlined two way traffic sign, and a dynamic speed readout sign.
A lot of the MN markers are nice and fresh.
An earlier comment of mdcaste's got me to thinking just what new interchanges are planned in Minnesota. Below is a list of all the interchanges (including interchange reconstructions) that are funded and scheduled. While many more interchanges are proposed, I did not include those that are unfunded (and thus not scheduled).
MN 7/Louisiana Ave in St. Louis Park - a diamond interchange with roundabouts will be built this year. This comes on the heels of the interchange built at Wooddale Ave recently.
US 10/Benton CSAH 2 in Rice - Planned for 2013, this is best described as an elongated diamond, and would replace the existing signal that is a notable bottleneck during summer weekends.
US 10/Otter Tail CSAH 34 near Pelham - a diamond interchange is being built this year. This is on the existing Pelham bypass.
MN 13/Old MN 101 in Savage - A weird 3-way interchange is already under construction and will be completed this year.
MN 13/Dakota CSAH 5 in Burnsville - A partial folded-diamond (with a WB off-ramp loop) is planned for 2012-13. This is just west of I-35W.
US 14/Nicollet CSAH 41 near Mankato - Long proposed and finally funded to begin this year, this will extend the existing freeway around Mankato west to CSAH 6 and build a partial folded-diamond interchange with roundabouts at CSAH 41.
US 14/Blue Earth CSAH 12 - At the other end of the Mankato freeway, a folded-diamond with the off-ramps as loops will be built at an extended CSAH 12.
US 14/Waseca to Owatonna - Construction on the new US 14 freeway between Waseca and Owatonna will be completed this year. It includes interchanges at MN 13 (already half-open), Steele CSAH 18, a relocated Steele CSAH 7, and a full cloverleaf at I-35.
MN 15/Stearns CR 120 in St. Cloud - Minnesota's second diverging diamond interchange will be built in 2012-13.
MN 15/33rd St in St. Cloud - This is a locally driven project that will build a new interchange in 2014 on the existing MN 15 freeway on the south side of St. Cloud. I couldn't find anything on the preferred design, although the alternatives considered were all some sort of folded-diamond or partial folding diamond.
MN 23/Paynesville Bypass - To be completed this year, the Paynesville Bypass will include 3 interchanges: a folded-diamond at a relocated Cemetery Rd, a diamond at MN 55/4, and a half-interchange at the east end of the bypass. The bypass proper will not be full freeway as there will be at-grade intersections in between.
MN 23/MN 95 to Foley - Though not an interchange project, I thought it was of note that 4-lane widening of MN 23 between MN 95 and Foley will be completed this year.
I-35E/Cayuga Bridge in St. Paul - The long-proposed plan to replace the Cayuga Bridge on I-35E just north of downtown St. Paul will take place starting in 2013. The plan eliminates the 3/4 interchange at Pennsylvania Ave and builds a new full interchange (a folded-diamond to the north) at Cayuga St. Also included in the plan will be MnPASS lanes on I-35E.
I-35W/4th St in Minneapolis - Construction will begin this year on a new on-ramp from 4th St to northbound I-35W near downtown Minneapolis.
MN 36/English St in Maplewood - One of two MN 36 interchanges Monte mentioned previously, a diamond interchange will be built on MN 36 at English St in Maplewood in 2014. Along with the closure of access at Hazlewood St, this project will effectively extend the MN 36 freeway to MN 120.
MN 36/Hilton Trl in Pine Springs - The other interchange Monte mentioned, to be built next year. It'll be a tight diamond with roundabouts at the ramp junctions.
MN 36/Stillwater Bridge - Now that Congress and the President have approved an exception to the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act (as mentioned in another thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5160.msg139105#msg139105)), construction is expected to begin on a new Stillwater Bridge next year. The project includes a full diamond interchange at MN 95 (instead of the half-interchange existing today) and a full diamond possibly with roundabouts at CTH E on the Wisconsin side.
US 52/Goodhue CSAH 24 in Cannon Falls - A diamond interchange with roundabouts will be built starting next year. This long-awaited project will eliminate the last two traffic signals on US 52 between St. Paul and Rochester.
US 52/Elk Run (near Oronoco) - To be completed this year, this is the state's first diverging diamond interchange, being built at a relocated Olmsted CSAH 12 about halfway between Oronoco and Pine Island. Along with planned frontage road improvements, this effectively extends the US 52 Rochester freeway segment to the Olmsted/Goodhue County line (but not all the way to/through Pine Island).
US 52/Dakota CSAH 47 in Hampton - To be built this year, this will be a folded-diamond to the north, but some existing access points in Hampton will remain and so this won't make a full freeway through Hampton.
US 52/Dakota CSAH 86 near Cannon Falls - Planned for 2013, this isn't an interchange project per-se, but I found it of interest. MnDOT plans to build what they're calling a "Reduced Conflict Intersection". Effectively a 3/4 intersection with U-turns, it'll close the through and left-turn movements from CSAH 86, but left turns from US 52 will remain, and U-turns will be built in the US 52 median on either side. It's very similar to the intersection improvements Maryland has done on US 15 north of Frederick and US 301 on the Eastern Shore, or the "Superstreet" concept of NCDOT.
I-94/Albertville - Already under construction, this project modifies the I-94 interchanges in Albertville. The CSAH 37 interchange will be rebuilt as a partial-folded diamond (with a WB on-ramp loop), effectively a full diamond interchange at CSAH 19, and C/D roads between the two interchanges.
MN 100/St Louis Park - The long-awaited full reconstruction of MN 100 in St. Louis Park will begin in 2015. The plan includes reconstructing the interchanges at MN 7 (into a 5-ramp par-clo) and CSAH 5/Minnetonka Blvd (into a tight diamond).
MN 101/Hennepin CSAH 144 in Rogers - Planned for 2014, this project will effectively complete a freeway on northbound MN 101 between Rogers and Elk River (signals will remain for southbound MN 101 near I-94). Three alternatives are being considered: a diverging diamond, a SPUI, or a tight diamond.
US 169/Scot CSAH 69 in Shakopee - Planned for 2013, this will be a partial folded-diamond with a NB off-ramp loop. It'll basically extend the Shakopee bypass freeway one interchange west.
US 169/I-494 in Bloomington - Planned for completion this year, this major interchange reconstruction will be a 6-ramp partial-directional interchange. No direct ramps for EB 494 to NB 169 or SB 169 to WB 494 (most of these movements are assumed to be done using US 212).
US 169/Hennepin CSAH 30 in Osseo/Brooklyn Park - This one had been on the schedule for 2014, though that might change. It's planned as a half-interchange to the south with 2 loops, and will effectively extend the US 169 freeway north through the MN 610 interchange.
US 212/MN 284 in Cologne - Another "Reduced Conflict Intersection" will be built here this year.
I-694/US 10/MN 51 - This major and long-needed interchange construction begins this year. It effectively separates the ramps to US 10 and MN 51 onto C/D roads to allow for unimpeded I-694 through lanes. Curiously, it includes 2 loop ramps on northbound MN 51: to WB 694 and to WB 10 (via the westbound C/D road).
An update regarding the MN 101/CSAH 144 interchange: The preferred alternative is now a diverging diamond.
Thanks for that summary! I didn't know about many of those outstate interchanges.
Thanks for the list Froggie -- MnDOT has some informative project pages that come right up on Google.
I will miss that old-school I-694/MN 51 interchange though.
Quote from: flowmotion on May 19, 2012, 04:57:59 AM
I will miss that old-school I-694/MN 51 interchange though.
You should be missing it now. It's already effectively gone.
I've notice Mn/DOT added two traffic lights on MN 7 at MN 100, and now is taking them out at Louisiana and Woodale. And on MN 13 taking out a light at 101 and adding one at Quentin. I drive 13 several times a week because it's between my house and my parents house and Valleyfair, and the single lane for adding the light at Quentin really ties things up to the point I use the Ferry Bridge if it's rush hour. I told my sister what they were doing and she's like "gotta keep the workers busy somehow I guess".
[/rant]
Anyway, a few notes:
Two more business route signage variations on the big green signs on the Willmar bypass. A white 71 shield with business in the top part of the shield, and "Business 71" spelled out. The cutout shields are faded but still there, as is the other nonstandard set. The "294" shields have finally been removed from the big green signs now that the route is years defunct, they didn't replace the signs, there's a non-faded patch where they used to be.
Paynesville bypass is almost done. The concrete on the bypass is finished and they're doing the asphalt tie-in to the old road on the south end. I was stopped taking pictures at one of the side road crossings and an old couple pulled over and asked if I needed any help. Another guy saw me in Wilmar and asked "what I saw down there". I said I was "taking pictures" as a non-sequitor and left.
The old Sauk Rapids bridge they saved the abutment on the Sauk Rapids side and it's an overlook now, the old road grade has ornamental lumineires and trees and stuff along the trails.
MN 361 is gone from the new highway maps. A vending machine at the St. Cloud rest stop said basically "get rid of your dollar coins here". I remember in 2008 Six Flags Great Adventure had lockers that only took dollar coins, with a vending machine nearby to change bills for coins. My thought was they try to force a politically correct coin that we don't want on us and it gets reduced to the level of a Chuck-E-Cheese token.
Concrete paving was going down on the westbound US 10 lanes between Clear Lake and Big Lake. I remember this stretch as being especially bad. A few FYAs and LED luminaires in Big Lake.
Apparently people don't know what a double white lines means, so the built a concrete wall between the mainline I-94 and traffic coming from the southbound to eastbound loop of 101. I'm happy most of the lights are gone of 101 because it was always aggravating getting behind underpowered vehicles pulling boats coming to or from the north woods.
MN 23 is stripped down to bare earth east of MN 95.
I've decided I like the new bare galvanized signals. They're not as nice as the all black painted ones D1 likes to use, but the green-yellow-silver the rest of the state used looks ugly to me now even before they fade and rust. I guess someone from Iowa DOT, which has used galvanazed for years took a job with Mn/DOT and was influential in the change. Mn/DOT buys most of their lights and signal poles from a company called Millerbend Mfg in Winsted, so they had to switch production to galvanized steel for signals.
They're getting ready to open the new eastbound mainline bridge over MN 13 at the junction with County 101. The paving is done and the barricades are being removed, MN 13 is closed and they're paving the junction with the eastbound ramps.
A bit off-topic, Google maps updated their satellite imagery showing a more recent picture of the US-169/I-494 interchange reconstruction. http://goo.gl/maps/M9EJ
Just digging around the MnDOT site and came across something interesting, they offer free monthly web seminars called Traffic Topics. Including very road geeky subjects such as last months "What's New in the 2011 AASHTO Green Book".
Check it out: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/topics/index.html
Quote from: Mdcastle on June 02, 2012, 11:35:34 PM
MN 23 is stripped down to bare earth east of MN 95.
Why doesn't Minnesota just build the new lanes, then move the traffic over to them while they rebuild the old ones? I got caught in this detour last week. Pain inthe butt to go south on MN25 from Foley, then west on MN95 to 23.
rte66man
I have no idea, and that's the way they (still) have listed on their web site. My only thought is that maybe with last year's government shutdown it got delayed and they needed to change the staging in order to get it done this year. I snooped around the area last week and there's no paving anyway, nor does it look like they're anywhere close.
I suspect Monte's right and this is a result of last year's shutdown. Even with the inconvenience to the traveling public, this saves MnDOT money vice stretching construction out for another season. Remember that with Minnesota's winter climate, construction season is shorter than in most other states.
In the past, they have built new lanes and moved traffic to them while rebuilding the old lanes.
At least you were warned well in advance. If you are westbound, the detour notices start at Milaca.
rte66man
The Taco Bell at MN 13 and Dakota County 5 is closed in preperation for the new interchange. This was an unusual design since it was a converted Zantigos. Famous Dave's is still open, as are the other businesses that will be taken. Work is winding up at MN 13 and County 101, they just need to build the permanent signal now, also the confirmation signs in the area incorrectly use a black on white tab meant for US markers.
According to a recent MnDOT news release, the MN 23 Paynesville bypass was supposed to have opened up this past Friday (the 20th). Haven't had an opportunity (being now in Africa waiting on a ship) to verify this.
Also, it should be noted that the lane configuation has changed in the new interchange. Southbound US 169 to MN 13 and Eastbound County 101 come together and each keeps a lane, US 169 northbound to MN 13 now narrows from two lanes to 1, and then forms the left lane when it combines with the ramp form SB 169/WB 101. The three lanes continue to the ramp to MN 13, than the right lane exits off. This means that the heavy US 169 south to MN 13 south movement keeps and stays in it's own lane, prior to this their was a regular backup in the afternoons.
Going the other direction the mainline is also three lanes with the ramp from MN 13 north becoming the new left lane. Although this introduces a weave and functionally a left exit/entrance I haven't seen it be a problem in practice.
The gene pool improves: A man tried to drive a U-Haul onto the Mall of America parking ramp. He struck a telltale and ignored it and continued on, where he stuck a beam which fell down on top of him. Two other people in the truck had only minor injuries.
I live a couple of miles away but I hate the place and rarely go there... The theming has been watered down considerably over the years, and most of the unique stores have been replaced by generic chains and a lot of the trees are gone from the amusement park.
The new US 14 west of Owatonna is now open:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/newsrels/12/H14/8-29owatonna.html
http://mankatofreepress.com/local/x620789811/Highway-14-Waseca-bypass-opens
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.0899&lon=-93.348&zoom=12&layers=M
This is the big weekend. Today the Hastings Bridge arch is going to be moved onto barges, on Sunday it will be lifted into place. Webcams:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/hastingsbridge/webcam2.html
Quote from: Mdcastle on September 07, 2012, 10:04:03 AM
This is the big weekend. Today the Hastings Bridge arch is going to be moved onto barges, on Sunday it will be lifted into place. Webcams:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/hastingsbridge/webcam2.html
Here is a recent photo capped from the webcam:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2Fhastingsbr1_zps4e84e14f.jpg&hash=30c5d89eb2d114ebf3ca52a68098b31976c589b6)
Is that red color its final color? If so kudos for going different. Not too many red bridges over the mighty Miss.
Yes it is. The original concept art had the whole thing grey/silver and and in an informal poll the majority of the residents wanted blue arches, but the terracotta red is kind of the unofficial color of the city, reflecting the red brick of the historic downtown area. The streelights in the town also were terra-cotta, but as they get knocked down they're being replaced by unpainted galvanized. (The ties are going to be grey and the cables will be silver. It looks like they'res some red on the bottom, but those are rusted concrete forms.)
In somewhat related news, the new Lowry Avenue bridge in Minneapolis opened to traffic on Saturday.
Now that all the litigation involving the I-35W bridge has settled, there's no reason to keep the remnants and they will be scrapped as soon as the winter weather ends. There's been discussion about donating some pieces to the survivors or the local engineering school, St. Thomas wants a piece for a shelf or something to hod the rings for the graduation ceremony, but MN/DOT is concerned about lead paint and "doesn't want pieces to end up on eBay or Craigslist"
They were somewhat evasive about where the peices are located, but I tracked them down; the smaller pieces were housed indoors in a building specially built at the Oakdale Truck Station, the larger pieces originally sat in a park adjacent to the bridge, raising the ire of the Minneapolis Park Board, until the litigants agreed they could be cut into truckable sections and were moved to a disused gravel pit off I-94 near Lakeland. What's left is the structural steel of the main span; all the concrete and the steel of the approach span, of no forensic value, were recycled immediately. You can see the pieces without climbing the fence, but you do have to trespass a short ways on the driveway off a fairly heavily used road. In another thread I posted a picture and a link to Google Earth where the girders are clearly visable.
The second and third permanent doghouse signals are coming to Minnesota. The first was the first use of a FYA at a split phase intersection in the country (now it can go between split phase and permissive phasing depending on time of day) and the first use of a bimodal arrow in Minnesota, the second and third are to replace the signals at the 90th and I-35W ramps. In both cases the situation is left turn lane shared with through traffic.
In all cases they go
R
<-Y Y
<-FY/G G
There's actually another one in operation at US 61/Buffalo St in White Bear Township. They just installed it when they did the repaving job on US 61 last year.
But was that one mast arm or span wire? The latter are usually cheap/temporary installations within the state.
The two in operation are definitely permanent. The first intersection (in Eden Prairie at Valley View Rd and Prairie Center Drive) has them installed on Hennepin County's typical mast arms, and the intersection in White Beat Township has them installed on MnDOT's new unpainted truss mast arms. I would guess the ones in Bloomington that Mdcastle mentioned will be similarly permanent.
Yes, the 90th street signals will be typical galvanized mast arms.
Since FYA are required for most new installations with dedicated left turn lanes, and a 3 light FYA/YA/RA isn't to my knowleged an approved configuration in Minnesota (so it looked odd to me when I saw it on the east coast), I wonder how they'ed do an installation for permissive only. Probably install a 4 light and not use the green arrow section. There'd be some merit to that approach as it keeps things consistant for drivers (although if more doghouses go up this would change), and if traffic grew to require a protected phase in the future they could implement it with just a programming change.
I thought this was interesting. Never seen a press release for a turnback before.
Hwy 258 is officially Brown County Road 16
MnDOT transfers ownership to county effective today — April 15
MANKATO, Minn. — The ownership of Highway 258 to Comfrey has officially transferred from the Minnesota Department of Transportation to Brown County, effective April 15, 2013.
Highway 258 from the south Brown County Line (County Road 17) in Comfrey to Highway 14 is now Brown County State Aid Highway 16. Turnback funds totaling $5.2 million are provided to Brown County to restore the 10.8 miles of roadway to an acceptable condition.
Motorists will see the highway identification signs change yet this week.
Highway 258 is one of several 200 series roadways that MnDOT is working to transfer to a proper level of government. Other roadways have been identified in a statewide jurisdictional realignment study. For example, lower volume roadways, which are important at the county level, have a difficult time competing for funds with high volume highways in the state department and vice versa, a county road that is serving as a principal artery of the transportation system may be realigned to a state roadway.
There's precedent...the 1988 "highway swap" in Hennepin County generated considerable news.
Notes 5-15:
Lino Lakes: There is a new partial-cloverleaf interchange on I-35E, exit 223. Last time I was here, this was under construction.
Hinckley (I): There are cutout signs designating "Old U.S. 61" along county road 61. The signs themselves do not have the original "Minnesota US 61," rather, they are signed "HWY US 61."
Hinckley (II): The county 61 spur is no longer signed, except at the traffic lights on I-35 and the road to the casino.
Hinckley (III): County 62 is now signed with the standard pentagon shield. I assume that all other roads in Pine County are signed with the white square.
Arden Hills: On I-35W, there is a detour for highway 10, which they are rebuilding the interchange for. The detour, interestingly enough, is signed with cutout shields.
I was in Canada over an extended Memorial Day weekend and it was my first time through the border at International Falls/Fort Frances. What a clusterfuck of a border crossing!
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=48.60657,-93.40136&z=16&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=48.60657,-93.40136&z=16&t=S)
All of the customs buildings are mixed in with a sprawling paper mill that spans the river and a dam. There are pipes and conveyers overhead and all these railroad tracks crisscrossing the road. One has to be cognizant of not stopping on those railroads (especially with a boat!) and figure out which building you're supposed to drive towards. Going both ways, there was a locomotive tooling around the paper mill complex and needing to get across the road. It was confusing as hell and the mill makes it noisy and foul smelling. It's totally unflattering of the two cities as well. At least the border agents can fart at work without anyone noticing.
It's a toll bridge (NB only) so there's another puzzle piece. The route to the border on city streets takes one through a lot of 90 degree turns. Even a trained roadgeek might find himself a tiny bit flustered. Also there's very little room at the duty-free pick up spot. Two vehicles with trailers will obstruct traffic. And this is northwest Ontario; a place with a lot of lakes that have a lot of fish. There are lots of trailers going over the border here.
I whole heartedly endorse the creation of a new border crossing somewhere up there. Anywhere that's not in the middle of goddamn factory/railroad yard is fine with me. If some Congressman has to sneak an earmark into the "War Orphan Baby Kissing Bill" and the project goes over budget and the contractor is caught bribing somebody and they have to punch a bald eagle in the face repeatedly with a poo-covered Bible to get it done, I am okay with it. Anyone who would call it pork should have to navigate that maze at least once before they say anything.
Whew, that was good to go off about that. I hope it was enjoyable.
More on topic, the 4 lane expansion of US 53 up to Cook looks to be in its first full year. Lots of grubbing and earth moving over that 10ish mile stretch. Must be at least a 2014 completion date.
Was surprised to see a traffic signal in little ol' Orr.
Driving through Virginia is very informative in the context of the ongoing debate in Wisconsin about a proposed iron mine between Mellen and Hurley. I drove past the site on WI 77 a couple weeks ago. I think I've made up my mind about that subject.
US 53 is in pretty rough shape in The Range. Very dated interchanges up there (except where 169 heads off to Ely).
Coming down the hill in Duluth is absolutely gorgeous. Haven't gone that way since before the hill climb was rebuilt a number of years ago. Not only is it a great view in all the usual ways, but you pretty much have an aerial view of the antiquated 35/535 interchange. That junction sucks but it looks cool from up the hill. There was even an outbound ship heading for the Blatnik Bridge at the time. They matched the feel of the I-35 tunnels and canyons on US 53.
Since it was Memorial Day, the Fuzz was out in full force the entire trip back (both MN & WI). Lotsa cops; lotsa dumbasses jamming on the brakes even though they were doing the speed limit.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 27, 2013, 09:26:59 PM
I was in Canada over an extended Memorial Day weekend and it was my first time through the border at International Falls/Fort Frances. What a clusterfuck of a border crossing!
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=48.60657,-93.40136&z=16&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=48.60657,-93.40136&z=16&t=S)
All of the customs buildings are mixed in with a sprawling paper mill that spans the river and a dam. There are pipes and conveyers overhead and all these railroad tracks crisscrossing the road. One has to be cognizant of not stopping on those railroads (especially with a boat!) and figure out which building you're supposed to drive towards. Going both ways, there was a locomotive tooling around the paper mill complex and needing to get across the road. It was confusing as hell and the mill makes it noisy and foul smelling. It's totally unflattering of the two cities as well. At least the border agents can fart at work without anyone noticing.
* * *
IIRC, the bridge is owned by Boise Cascade. They have operations on both sides.
QuoteUS 53 is in pretty rough shape in The Range. Very dated interchanges up there (except where 169 heads off to Ely).
In part because the interchange at MN 169 was only built within the past 10 years. Was an at-grade junction where the 4-lane ended on US 53 before then.
The first lanes of the new Hastings Bridge opened today (6/4)!
Here is a shakycam drive across from YouTube:
I received an email from MN/DOT today with the pithy title:
How to plan your summer around Hwy 169 construction
This would be funny if I didn't, in fact, have to plan my summer around Hwy 169 construction
Quote from: Coelacanth on June 05, 2013, 03:15:24 PM
I received an email from MN/DOT today with the pithy title:
How to plan your summer around Hwy 169 construction
This would be funny if I didn't, in fact, have to plan my summer around Hwy 169 construction
Anything major in the email? Headed up that way later this year.
rte66man
Looking at MnDOT's current construction projects (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/roadwork/current.html), looks like plenty along 169, though probably the biggest-impact one (resurfacing between Milaca and Onamia) is supposed to be done soon, provided they haven't been delayed due to the weird weather this spring.
Froggie, thanks for the link.
The project that would affect me the most is this one in central Mora:
Hwys 23, 65 Ann River bridge to north Hwy 23/65 junction in Mora
Description: Resurface 3 miles of road, repair median, repair underground utilities, install accessible pedestrian ramps and signals (ADA compliant), improve drainage
Construction Dates: Aug-Sept 2013
Traffic Impacts: Lane closures with flaggers, detour
rte66man
The email was specific to the metro-area projects.
Specifically, the reduction to a single lane at the under-construction interchange with CSAH 30 in Maple Grove (Osseo? Champlin? whatever). And, more importantly for me, the month-plus-long repair work on the bridges between TH 62 and TH 7. 169 will be one lane each direction throughout that entire stretch, with some exits being closed for part of the work.
The big killer will be the closure of the ramp from Bren Rd to NB169. I would guess that ramp is the beginning of the afternoon commute for almost half of the several thousand people who work here, including me.
The recommended detour is to take SB 169 and use the loops to/from EB 62 to get on NB 169. Good thing EB 62 has almost no traffic during the afternoon rush....oh wait.
QuoteSpecifically, the reduction to a single lane at the under-construction interchange with CSAH 30 in Maple Grove (Osseo? Champlin? whatever).
Brooklyn Park.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3692%2F9062154467_ddf514c81b_z.jpg&hash=d5b474ec3812b2617c3649e9926f7e6835afadd1) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/9062154467/)
IMG_2834 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/9062154467/) by North Star Highways (http://www.flickr.com/people/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
The first Minnesota doghouse and first Minnesota bimodal arrow.
Given the location (yes, it's sad that I know exactly where that is), that'd have to be a city installation. My question is why they'd have FYA in a case with both a dedicated left and a shared left-thru lane. IIRC the MnDOT manual, that scenario requires a protected left or split-phase, not a permitted left.
Some folks on Openstreetmap posted the plans of a Y-interchange near Marion, south of Rochester near the current junction of US-52 and I-90.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=43.977778&mlon=-92.387222&zoom=12&layers=M
Is it really in MN DOT plans or if it's a fantasy of one guy at Openstreetmap?
I was just at a MnDOT signal coordination training class a few weeks ago and was talking to a guy in the MnDOT traffic department (Jerry Kotzomacher). He mentioned that MnDOT's new policy that is likely to be put into the next manual updates is that all new and retro-fit signals on the trunk highway system will be required to use 4-section FYA heads (for exclusive left turn lanes) or doghouse bimodal signals (for shared left turn lanes). Apparently MnDOT likes what they've seen from their test installations of the bimodal doghouse signals.
QuoteSome folks on Openstreetmap posted the plans of a Y-interchange near Marion, south of Rochester near the current junction of US-52 and I-90.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=43.977778&mlon=-92.387222&zoom=12&layers=M
Is it really in MN DOT plans or if it's a fantasy of one guy at Openstreetmap?
I've never seen any actual plans for the 52/90 interchange...I'm not sure they even exist. My guess is it's either some guy's fantasy or it came from a non-transportation-based source. I doubt MnDOT would go with such a configuration, however, given 52's importance to the south.
QuoteHe mentioned that MnDOT's new policy that is likely to be put into the next manual updates is that all new and retro-fit signals on the trunk highway system will be required to use 4-section FYA heads (for exclusive left turn lanes) or doghouse bimodal signals (for shared left turn lanes). Apparently MnDOT likes what they've seen from their test installations of the bimodal doghouse signals.
Part of me is sad to see this, given that I see Minnesota's standard 5-lens vertical as iconic to the state. It'd be like Wisconsin or New Mexico getting rid of their horizontal overhead signals...
All I could find for 90/52 is a full cloverleaf on http://capx2020.com/Regulatory/State/Minnesota/route-permit-app-HRL/Appendix_D_Hwy52.pdf page 170.
I agree 5 light vertical heads with the ugly but distinct green-yellow-silver masts remind me of Minnesota. Also davit poles are something not a lot of states use, I felt like I was at home when on a trip through the northeast I drove through Rhode Island.
Also of note, the first large scale installation of LEDs on a trunk highway was just completed on Crosstown between Cedar and Hiawatha.
Can someone screencapture that 90/52 cloverleaf graphic and either E-mail it or post it here? Can't get to the PDF.
It's just a cloverleaf with the east-side ramps pretty much where the current ramps are, and C/D roads on I-94.
Quote from: froggie on June 19, 2013, 01:02:26 AM
Part of me is sad to see this, given that I see Minnesota's standard 5-lens vertical as iconic to the state. It'd be like Wisconsin or New Mexico getting rid of their horizontal overhead signals...
Hate to break the news that Wisconsin is currently doing away with the horizontal signal.
Hey, why is there a stoplight on I-35 and US-53 in Duluth? Always wondered that.
Quote from: texaskdog on June 21, 2013, 01:41:05 PM
Hey, why is there a stoplight on I-35 and US-53 in Duluth? Always wondered that.
there is? I don't remember one. which ramp?
trying to remember, i know its I-35 northbound, I believe right onto 53. You could be able to see it on googlemaps, which doesn't let me paste though it seems to for y'all.
Yes I just looked, that is where it is. There is a stoplight.
found it. I've never done those ramps. is that a SPUI?
It's a two-phase signal between the I-35 NB ramp to US 53 NB and the US 53 SB ramp to I-35 NB/I-535/US 53 SB. My best guess is that it's there because the vertical and horizontal constraints at the interchange due to the surrounding land (railroads next to the NB lanes of I-35, industrial/commercial buildings just to the west of the interchange, US 53 on a viaduct west of the interchange, interchanges close-by on I-35 and US 53) and the lack of sufficient volume to warrant an expensive flyover ramp.
Quote from: twinsfan87 on June 17, 2013, 08:04:10 PM
I was just at a MnDOT signal coordination training class a few weeks ago and was talking to a guy in the MnDOT traffic department (Jerry Kotzomacher). He mentioned that MnDOT's new policy that is likely to be put into the next manual updates is that all new and retro-fit signals on the trunk highway system will be required to use 4-section FYA heads (for exclusive left turn lanes) or doghouse bimodal signals (for shared left turn lanes). Apparently MnDOT likes what they've seen from their test installations of the bimodal doghouse signals.
What about permissive only? Use a 4-section and put a dummy arrow into the bottom section? Under the latest Minnesota MUTCD a 3-section FYA is allowed, but looks like they're going to pull this before the first one is installed. I do see the logic in that you could convert it to to protected/permissive in the future with just a programming change, and plastic signals aren't that expensive even when bought new.
Outside of Minneapolis and St. Paul which normally use their own standards on trunk highways, is there a permissive only turn lane on the trunk highway system?
Permissive-only turn lanes would be installed with a 4-section FYA signal but operated without the protected phase. Like you said, it would just take a matter of a programming change rather than a physical installation of a new arrow section if the traffic volumes or safety problems necessitated it.
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 15, 2013, 05:25:54 PM
Notes 5-15:
.
Hinckley (I): There are cutout signs designating "Old U.S. 61" along county road 61. The signs themselves do not have the original "Minnesota US 61," rather, they are signed "HWY US 61."
Saw the same thing at the crossing of Minnesota TH 70 and Pine County Road 61 outside of Rock Creek. I'm very interested to see if there are more signs along the old 61 Route
Any photos of such signs? I'm sure Jake would be interested...as am I.
Quote from: froggie on June 25, 2013, 04:24:38 AM
Any photos of such signs? I'm sure Jake would be interested...as am I.
I have seen a sign pair that has an OLD banner on top of a HWY/US 61 cutout shield. photos of any other styles would be greatly appreciated!
Since my "Great American Road Trips" to western Illinois have ended at 22 as of last year, I can probably get up north this summer if someone else doesn't.
Cheap plastic 5 light + high winds = fail
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/995672_10151672311319875_770039581_n.jpg)
Judging from the mast arm, I'd guess a city installation?
Yes, Lake St and Thomas Ave.
I didn't realize that US 52's treated as a north-south highway by MNDOT; the exit numbers through Rochester indicate that.
Quote from: Bickendan on July 02, 2013, 06:58:53 PM
I didn't realize that US 52's treated as a north-south highway by MNDOT; the exit numbers through Rochester indicate that.
That's because most of the signed part follows former U.S. 55. The unsigned part was formerly signed E-W; the cutoff, I assume, was in Saint Paul, at Robert Street's junction with U.S. 10 on University Avenue.
Not just Minnesota. IIRC, 6 of the 10 states US 52 passes through classify it as a north-south route.
MnDOT recently released it's Draft State Highway Investment Plan (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/planning/mnship/index.html) for the next 20 years. It's a legislatively-manded update every 4 years of MnDOT's 20-year state highway policies and plans. It also includes a 10-year District Work Plan for each MnDOT District and the Metro Division. The first 4 years from the Work Plan are projects already in the STIP and currently funded. Years 5-10 are a general plan of specific project improvements but are subject to change. Here's a quick-look at some of the major projects being proposed over the next 10 years, broken down by route type/number.
I-35: pavement reconstruction and add auxiliary lanes between Bridge St and Old US 14 West in Owatonna, 2014.
I-35: bridge replacement over the Snake River (Pine County, IIRC), 2019.
I-35E: reconstruction/add MnPASS lane from I-94 to I-694, 2014.
I-35W: add ramp from 4th St to NB I-35W and add auxiliary lane to Johnson St, 2014.
I-35W: bridge replacement over the Minnesota River (placeholder...may not actually happen), 2020-22.
I-90: construct interchange at Jackson CSAH 34 near Jackson, 2016.
I-94: add eastbound auxiliary lane from 7th St to Mounds Blvd, 2016.
I-94: interchange modification at US 75 in Moorhead, 2016.
I-94: add managed lane between downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul (placeholder...may not actually happen), 2020-21.
I-494: reconstruction and add "dynamic shoulder" from I-394 to I-94/694, 2014.
US 2: bridge rehab or replacement over the Red River at East Grand Forks, 2018.
US 8: roadway reconstruction from MN 95 South to Taylors Falls (this is the long grade into the St. Croix River valley), 2016.
US 14: 4-lane widening from Nicollet to North Mankato, 2018-19.
US 14: Bridge replacements over the Minnesota River and Front St at New Ulm (should also include 4-laning), 2018-20.
US 53: relocation/realignment from Eveleth to Virginia due to mine operations, 2015.
US 59: construct roundabout at Becker CSAH 22 south of Detroit Lakes, 2017.
US 61: reconstruct the two MN 97 intersections and replace with roundabouts, 2016.
US 63: bridge replacement over the Mississippi River and US 61 at Red Wing, 2018.
US 169: construct interchange at Scott CSAH 69 in Shakopee, 2014.
US 212: reconstruct interchange at Hennepin CSAH 61/Shady Oak Rd, 2015.
MN 15: construct interchange at 33rd St in st. Cloud/Waite Park (existing "freeway" segment between MN 23 and I-94), 2014.
MN 22: construct a roundabout at Blue Earth CSAH 17/Madison Ave in Mankato (would have to be a multi-lane roundabout given the approach roads), 2014.
MN 24: bridge replacement over the Mississippi River at Clearwater, 2017.
MN 29: 4-lane widening from I-94 to Douglas CSAH 28 and interchange modification at I-94, 2016.
MN 36: St. Croix River Crossing, 2014-17.
MN 60: 4-lane widening from Mountain Lake to Butterfield, 2015.
MN 60: 4-lane widening from Windom to Mountain Lake, 2017-20.
MN 72: bridge replacement over the Rainy River at Baudette, 2018.
MN 100: reconstruction from 36th St to Cedar Lake Rd, including interchanges at MN 7 and Minnetonka Blvd, 2015.
MN 101: reconstruction from the MN River to Carver CSAH 61 (old US 212), 2014 (likely part of a future turnback agreement).
MN 101: construct interchange at Hennepin CSAH 144 in Rogers, 2014.
MN 210: bridge replacement over the Mississippi River at Brainerd, 2020.
MN 250: bridge replacements north of Lanesboro (mentioned b/c the existing bridges are old through-truss bridges), 2016.
MN 371: 4-lane widening from Nisswa to Crow Wing CSAH 16, 2018-21.
MN 610: construct freeway from CSAH 81 to I-94 (placeholder...may not actually happen), 2018-19.
Quote from: froggie on July 10, 2013, 05:31:33 AM
US 169: construct interchange at Scott CSAH 69 in Shakopee, 2014.
Finally!
Quote from: froggie on July 10, 2013, 05:31:33 AM
MnDOT recently released it's Draft State Highway Investment Plan (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/planning/mnship/index.html) for the next 20 years.......
MN 101: construct interchange at Hennepin CSAH 144 in Rogers, 2014.
Google Maps won't give me the CSAH #. Can I assume this is the intersection with 141st Av North?
rte66man
Very disappointed to NOT see any mention of major work on US169 in and around Elk River. :banghead:
rte66man
QuoteGoogle Maps won't give me the CSAH #. Can I assume this is the intersection with 141st Av North?
Yes.
Quote from: froggie on July 10, 2013, 05:31:33 AM
MnDOT recently released it's Draft State Highway Investment Plan (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/planning/mnship/index.html) for the next 20 years. It's a legislatively-manded update every 4 years of MnDOT's 20-year state highway policies and plans. It also includes a 10-year District Work Plan for each MnDOT District and the Metro Division. The first 4 years from the Work Plan are projects already in the STIP and currently funded. Years 5-10 are a general plan of specific project improvements but are subject to change. Here's a quick-look at some of the major projects being proposed over the next 10 years, broken down by route type/number.
MN 101: reconstruction from the MN River to Carver CSAH 61 (old US 212), 2014 (likely part of a future turnback agreement).
This is the longest-running turnback process, having probably started in 1988 when MnDOT started looking for incentives for Carver to take back their portion of 101. That little piece from Scott County line to old 212 (CSAH 61) includes reconstruction of an unusual three-signal triangle to, IIRC, a roundabout. The piece of 101 from 212 (when it was that) to the Minnesota River was strangely marked Carver County 101, though it was on pentagonal signs, which Carver does not use. Thus, it was still a state highway. After old 212 was turned back, I was informed via e-mail that the former "County" 101 was again properly marked as MN-101.
Last month, I drove by the new U.S. 212 exit of 101, and it was marked County 101. This sign used a proper Carver County standard square white rectangle rather than the blue pentagon. MnDOT maps show the trunk highway terminus of this segment has moved south of 212, indicating that as the road is improved by MnDOT, it is then turned back to Carver County. I don't know what is planned for the winding segment of 101 that goes up the hill out of the river valley, but it's possible that once the afore-mentioned project is complete, that whole piece of 101 south of MN-5 may belong to Carver County.
I get the idea that to get a new interchange built nowadays, the local agencies have to really champion (and help get funding for) it. Elk River doesn't seem that excited about work on US 169, they paid for a study on US 10 but don't seem to be pushing that even.
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 11, 2013, 11:45:26 PM
I get the idea that to get a new interchange built nowadays, the local agencies have to really champion (and help get funding for) it. Elk River doesn't seem that excited about work on US 169, they paid for a study on US 10 but don't seem to be pushing that even.
Does MN work the same as OK where many local legislators have the stroke to get new projects done (or at least prioritized)?
rte66man
I noticed the US 10 detour signs up in the northern suburbs are cutouts.
QuoteDoes MN work the same as OK where many local legislators have the stroke to get new projects done (or at least prioritized)?
Not really. They try...you always see bills specifying this project or that project in the Legislature, but they never go anywhere. State law gives MnDOT a lot of leeway in determing where highway funds go on the state highway system, but there's also a fair bit of oversight...not the least of which being the requirement for "municipal consent" for road projects. If the local town doesn't like the project, they have de facto veto power, except for certain Interstate highway projects.
The only example I can think of recently is the transportation bill about 5 years ago that increased the gas tax to help pay for bridges (in the aftermath of the 35W collapse). A provision was inserted in that bill to also give funding to finish the 4-laning of MN 60 between Worthington and Mankato. One could argue that this was a statewide priority anyway (has long been on MnDOT's priority list but languished due to funding), but some of us feel it was inserted as a way to "buy" those legislators votes to help ensure passage of the bill (which barely survived Pawlenty's veto as it was).
No, the main avenue for the Minnesota porkfest is the bi-annual bonding bill. But that's also subject to fairly stringent budgeting limitations.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 25, 2013, 01:00:57 PM
Quote from: froggie on June 25, 2013, 04:24:38 AM
Any photos of such signs? I'm sure Jake would be interested...as am I.
I have seen a sign pair that has an OLD banner on top of a HWY/US 61 cutout shield. photos of any other styles would be greatly appreciated!
I took this last summer. As far as I knew at the time they were restricted to Chisago County along CR 30, but it sounds from here like the shields have appeared elsewhere to the north.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi248.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg198%2Fthehighwayman394%2Fold61_zpscaa2f86a.jpg&hash=f5efb8990a3448f2154f8768632ac9802903f3c8) (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/thehighwayman394/media/old61_zpscaa2f86a.jpg.html)
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 13, 2013, 04:25:17 PM
I noticed the US 10 detour signs up in the northern suburbs are cutouts.
I would certainly like to see a photo of that.
Would love to see something done to the I-394 East to I-94 east in Minneapolis. Worst bottleneck in the Cities in my view
Short of what would be a *VERY* expensive widening of the Lowry Hill Tunnel, there's nothing that can be done for that EB 394 to EB 94 movement.
Quote from: froggie on July 18, 2013, 02:54:29 AM
Short of what would be a *VERY* expensive widening of the Lowry Hill Tunnel, there's nothing that can be done for that EB 394 to EB 94 movement.
Sigh. That is what I thought. I guess I'll just keep taking 55 or 694 to 94 to avoid it during peak times.
well, they could have built a freeway north of downtown to funnel off some traffic :P
That was the proposed I-335, which believe it or not did not have ramps planned at I-94, so it's effectiveness at funneling off traffic from the tunnel would have been minimal.
Quote from: froggie on July 19, 2013, 02:08:20 AM
That was the proposed I-335, which believe it or not did not have ramps planned at I-94, so it's effectiveness at funneling off traffic from the tunnel would have been minimal.
I think that it did have some ramps that connected directly to I-94, but it may not have had a full set, it had some ramps connecting to local streets too (Plymouth Avenue?)
On another note, the 2013 MN official highway maps came out last week. Some of the big changes: US 14 west of Owatonna, US 53 expansion to Cook shown as under construction, TH 60 south of Worthington, scattered new interchanges in the Twin Cities and near Oronoco. A big graphic change is the introduction of blue and red interstate route marker shields. I love the idea, however the execution was weak, as the numbers extend across both the blue and red portions of the shield, and ideally should only be in the blue portion, as most other states have done with their maps. Now if they could just graphically show main highway/US highways/NHS routes in red instead of black, and differentiate non-interstate limited access freeways from 4-lane divided highways, I'd be happy.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on July 19, 2013, 09:38:21 AM
Quote from: froggie on July 19, 2013, 02:08:20 AM
That was the proposed I-335, which believe it or not did not have ramps planned at I-94, so it's effectiveness at funneling off traffic from the tunnel would have been minimal.
I think that it did have some ramps that connected directly to I-94, but it may not have had a full set, it had some ramps connecting to local streets too (Plymouth Avenue?)
On another note, the 2013 MN official highway maps came out last week. Some of the big changes: US 14 west of Owatonna, US 53 expansion to Cook shown as under construction, TH 60 south of Worthington, scattered new interchanges in the Twin Cities and near Oronoco. A big graphic change is the introduction of blue and red interstate route marker shields. I love the idea, however the execution was weak, as the numbers extend across both the blue and red portions of the shield, and ideally should only be in the blue portion, as most other states have done with their maps. Now if they could just graphically show main highway/US highways/NHS routes in red instead of black, and differentiate non-interstate limited access freeways from 4-lane divided highways, I'd be happy.
Maps are not available on line yet. Kind of late in the year for the next 2-year edition to be made available. Minnesota maps have always had the kinds of graphics you're describing, with no color differentiation between minor and major state routes. It would be a major change now to go to red for major routes.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 15, 2013, 06:57:01 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 13, 2013, 04:25:17 PM
I noticed the US 10 detour signs up in the northern suburbs are cutouts.
I would certainly like to see a photo of that.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2884%2F9430702357_3f912da49b_z.jpg&hash=915158b9595e4533937c7c046bf39606d4e741ef) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/9430702357/)
IMG_2971 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/9430702357/) by North Star Highways (http://www.flickr.com/people/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
More new photos on Flickr: MN 36 and English, Stillwater Bridge, US 10 and County 96
36 inches, no less.
2013-14 Minnesota map is now available on line. One thing I noticed is that MN-27 east of Alexandria to Osakis is being turned back as a county road, and 27 uses former MN-127 to connect to I-94. It then runs concurrent with I-94 to west of Alexandria. I think this can be accomplished without modifying Legislative Routes.
I found this press release (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/newsrels/12/10/30hwy27.html) from last October that describes the change.
MN 127 and the section of MN 27 in question were part of Constitutional Route (noted as "C.R." below) 3, but now that the Alexandria city limits have extended south of I-94, C.R. 3 can be routed along I-94 without issue...there's precedent elsewhere in the state for this.
Also, that stretch of old MN 27 between Alexandria and Osakis underwent a full-depth reconstruction about 10 years ago, in concrete, and is in good shape.
Are MN 295 and MN 333 gone? Can't find them listed on the map.
Looks to be that way, yes. Both were still on the August, 2010 Logpoint but were delisted by the February, 2012 Logpoint.
MN 295 was probably decommissioned. Some of the signs were recycled for the MN 19 detour in Northfield; you can see the ghost "295."
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7380%2F9512978906_2f2eae68b4_z.jpg&hash=2f5d0a2e4bfe0cd8c85a9fdbdc9614cce25e979b)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3736%2F9512980764_cbcdb5cbd8_c.jpg&hash=ae3be19268ed21f62a04e00faed10937122aa703)
That's a possibility, but MnDOT has long been known to recycle/refinish old signs after sign replacement projects.
On a different note, while digging through Chisago County imagery for a GIS project, I noticed what might have been an old MN 243 alignment west of the curve near the river bridge. It looks like it used to tie into 263rd St. A quick check of MnDOT's project logs lists a 1953 project that relocated MN 243, but doesn't show the old alignment. Has anyone (Monte?) field-checked this?
Quote from: froggie on August 21, 2013, 06:50:33 AM
That's a possibility, but MnDOT has long been known to recycle/refinish old signs after sign replacement projects.
I think the point is that they had these 295 signs lying around because it's gone.
Something else I've noticed recently in my research: Carver County's transportation plan, where they propose relocating MN 25 to what is basically the CSAH 33 corridor, with a couple miles of new construction, with a little bit of new construction to tie it directly into the western US 212/MN 5/MN 25 intersection west of NYA.
Just one problem with that. The language for Constitutional Route (C.R.) 25 specifies that it serve both Norwood and Watertown. So while MN 25 could be relocated as the county proposes, MnDOT would still have to retain a state highway that directly connects NYA, Watertown, and Montrose.
This isn't the first time I've seen this sort of disconnect, even within MnDOT. Past versions of MnDOT Metro Division's district plan proposed turning back parts of US 61, MN 20, and MN 50 in Dakota County, even though all three are required to meet Constitutional Route requirements. Especially MN 20, where Constitutional Route 20 is specifically written to end at "a point on Route No 3 in the town(ship) of Douglas, Dakota County, T 113, R 17 W".
Confirmed: MN 295 and MN 333 are gone. Oddly they are still under MN/DOT's adopt a highway program.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/9583986308/" title="IMG_3271 by North Star Highways, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7311/9583986308_ed2d12ef88_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_3271"></a>
So why can't I embed Flickr photos anymore?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fprevious.gif&hash=ee51c7adb39e56ca899032f44ba303cf3aec9604)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7311%2F9583986308_ed2d12ef88_z.jpg&hash=03749738c86f21d2b47f450aad86bb045d2e0d51)
by North Star Highways, on Flickr
Try using the [img] tags.
Nice find...presume it was somewhere near Elk Run, but where specifically?
Quote from: froggie on August 25, 2013, 02:29:37 AM
Nice find...presume it was somewhere near Elk Run, but where specifically?
520th Street is the Olmsted/Goodhue county line.
Yes, I know that, but it doesn't tell me what road the sign is on. It's not necessarily located on 520th St.
Sorry, Mdcastle will know. I was just down there during Gold Rush Days and it was almost unnavigable. :banghead: Probably on the most recent incarnation of county 12, where it meets 52 west of the brand new roundabout on county 18.
Signs, there's actually a couple of them like that, one on the southbound mainline (if IRC correctly), one at the gore area, and one on the left side of the southbound off-ramp approaching the junction, which is the one on the pictures. (You can't see the "MN 52" mainline in the shot because it's looking up from a ramp). I think one of the median crossovers is closed an they're telling traffic they have to go south and make a U-turn at the interchange now (a construction worker saw me take the picture and gave a "WTF?" look.). I needed to get to Kendall, WI before 5 so I didn't have as much time to snoop around in the area as I would hae liked.
MN 243- going by online resources it does look like there was an old road to the Franconia Bridge (for lack of a better name), but it looks to me like it met MN 95 south of 263rd, lining up with what was then an old road on the other side. There's still power lines, private driveways, and a break in property lines along it. If you want I'll see if there's anything worth photographing the next time I'm in the area.
US 52 DDI at Elk Run:
The interchange fully opened in the last week. I drove through it, and lo and behold as soon as I exited the off-ramp onto the overpass I encountered a wrong-way pick-up coming at me. I stopped, flashed my lights at him and pointed to the other side of the roadway. He actually stopped, backed up, and drove down the right--er, correct/left--side of the roadway. Luckily he didn't go the wrong way onto the exit ramp off of 52. I have decided to avoid the whole mess for a number of months risking another near-miss, as traffic volumes are light enough to not provide visual cues about the proper movement of traffic through the DDI.
Other observations: The "free flow" turns controlled by yield signs have absolutely no merging space or auxiliarly lanes. I see this as a major flaw. Particularly with the waist-high weeds (they're weeds and not landscape plantings) that block sight lines as you're merging. There needs to be much more signage prohibiting turns and guiding the counter flow crossings. People are missing the little signage that's there. The angle of the intersections and curb radii encourage people to turn right into the oncoming traffic. County 12/31 is paved in concrete between the frontage road roundabouts which is a little unusual, but nice.
I'm afraid that between the roundabouts and the DDI (wouldn't the term "braided interchange" be more appropriate and descriptive?), that most of the locals will avoid it. People in the Rochester area are particularly roundabout-phobic.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on September 06, 2013, 10:35:22 AM
wouldn't the term "braided interchange" be more appropriate and descriptive?
Already used for a C/D-like setup where an offramp crosses over or under an onramp.
QuoteOther observations: The "free flow" turns controlled by yield signs have absolutely no merging space or auxiliarly lanes. I see this as a major flaw.
My hunch is they're waiting for the development at Elk Run to actually kick in, at which point signal warrants will probably be met.
The new I-90 Dresbach Bridge project over the Mississippi River between MN & WI near La Crosse, is well under way.
Looking towards MN:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2F944587_463275757102870_619571465_n_zps63af707e.jpg&hash=48038942bca441dc8e13eb7ab7b9ac782f7f6100)
New construction with the current bridge in the background:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2F1385650_489349174495528_1248456637_n_zpsbe862dbb.jpg&hash=46d2ca5a91ca7b29cb85945c69350043fab5c3ea)
both courtesy of the Dresbach Bridge Project Facebook site- https://www.facebook.com/DresbachBridge
That retaining wall is for the relocated access road down to the boat access point. Needed as the old access road is basically where the I-90 mainline will be...the vast cleared swath in the upper photo.
Why is the bridge being replaced, the old one seems to look OK?
The current bridge is being replaced due to it having a non-redundant design and not meeting modern geometric standards. It is also fracture critical.
Quote from: on_wisconsin on October 02, 2013, 06:36:55 PM
The current bridge is being replaced due to it having a non-redundant design and not meeting modern geometric standards. It is also fracture critical.
From what you are saying, can I correctly surmise that it is of essentially the same design that failed on the Hoan bridge (I-794) in Milwaukee a decade ago? The former College Ave bridge over the Fox River here in Appleton was of the same design, too, and was replaced in 2008-2009.
Mike
Different design than the Hoan but the same issue...fracture-critical. The existing bridge also lacks shoulders.
Received an email from Pine City about their new business loop for I-35. www.aaroads.com/forum_images/central/pine_city_business_loop_map.pdf
Anyone willing to add this with Google Map Maker?
The political fallout from the I-35W bridge disaster required Mn/DOT to get rid of, in most cases, major fracture critical bridges. Rehabilitating it to add redundant elements and address deteriorating components was almost exactly the same as scrapping it and building a new one with a 100 year design life.
Quote from: Alex on October 03, 2013, 01:34:47 PM
Received an email from Pine City about their new business loop for I-35. www.aaroads.com/forum_images/central/pine_city_business_loop_map.pdf
Anyone willing to add this with Google Map Maker?
They just replaced the signs at the two interchanges on I-35 in the last couple years so I'd be pleasantly surprised to see any mainline I-35 signage for the loop.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 04, 2013, 02:46:37 AM
Quote from: Alex on October 03, 2013, 01:34:47 PM
Received an email from Pine City about their new business loop for I-35. www.aaroads.com/forum_images/central/pine_city_business_loop_map.pdf
Anyone willing to add this with Google Map Maker?
They just replaced the signs at the two interchanges on I-35 in the last couple years so I'd be pleasantly surprised to see any mainline I-35 signage for the loop.
They could pull a sketchy Montana. http://goo.gl/maps/6bXGM
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 08, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
They could pull a sketchy Montana. http://goo.gl/maps/6bXGM
what's even sketchier is the green sign on the right. since when does an interstate pull-through get local town streets added to it?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 08, 2013, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 08, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
They could pull a sketchy Montana. http://goo.gl/maps/6bXGM
what's even sketchier is the green sign on the right. since when does an interstate pull-through get local town streets added to it?
Not unheard of. http://goo.gl/maps/TVHnp
The Pine City BL is signed on I-35 in both directions at the first interchange with it but not repeated at the second. By the way, the route follows the decommissioned MN 324 into downtown from the south end of the business loop, then follows old US 61 through downtown north to Pine CR 11 west back to I-35.
So it's signed a la Faribault's business loop. That makes much more sense than signing it from both directions at both exits. If I wanted the business loop, I would have taken the first exit.
I kind of wonder what decisions go into asking for a business loop. I would think Sandstone would be a perfect place for a business loop following MN 23 between the I-35 junctions at Exit 191 and 195.
Not really, since even MN 23 bypasses the bulk of Sandstone's business district. You'd have to route it partially along MN 123 and a short bit of Main St (what maps identify as Pine CSAH 64).
Quote from: froggie on October 22, 2013, 08:07:05 AM
Not really, since even MN 23 bypasses the bulk of Sandstone's business district. You'd have to route it partially along MN 123 and a short bit of Main St (what maps identify as Pine CSAH 64).
Close enough.
Breaking news: U.S. 63 signage in Rochester north of CSAH 22 has been changed to extend CSAH 33. 63 is still on its old alignment through Rochester, so it has a gap for the time being. There are no 63 signs on highway 52, but the BGSes for CSAH 14 have been replaced to reflect the reroute. 63 is also unsigned anywhere along CSAH 14.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 08, 2013, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 08, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
They could pull a sketchy Montana. http://goo.gl/maps/6bXGM
what's even sketchier is the green sign on the right. since when does an interstate pull-through get local town streets added to it?
Like this (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.842659,-87.657241&spn=0.003261,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.842616,-87.657335&panoid=oYcFQ2cqZ6JkKZcL4o7LFA&cbp=12,55.61,,1,-11.06)?
Granted, I-55 ends at LSD, but still, it's the control "city" on the pull-through.
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 23, 2013, 02:10:07 PM
Breaking news: U.S. 63 signage in Rochester north of CSAH 22 has been changed to extend CSAH 33. 63 is still on its old alignment through Rochester, so it has a gap for the time being. There are no 63 signs on highway 52, but the BGSes for CSAH 14 have been replaced to reflect the reroute. 63 is also unsigned anywhere along CSAH 14.
So just so I understand - 63 now follows 52 north from their current interchange near the airport north to CR 14, then east on CR 14 to the current route of 63?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 23, 2013, 09:28:35 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 23, 2013, 02:10:07 PM
Breaking news: U.S. 63 signage in Rochester north of CSAH 22 has been changed to extend CSAH 33. 63 is still on its old alignment through Rochester, so it has a gap for the time being. There are no 63 signs on highway 52, but the BGSes for CSAH 14 have been replaced to reflect the reroute. 63 is also unsigned anywhere along CSAH 14.
So just so I understand - 63 now follows 52 north from their current interchange near the airport north to CR 14, then east on CR 14 to the current route of 63?
That is the plan. But for now it remains signed on Broadway until CSAH 22. So there's a gap in U.S. 63 until MN/DOT signs it along 52-14.
Might end up like MN 55 in Minneapolis, where there is one brief mention of joining I-94 at Exit 230 and no mention of the duplex anywhere else. Hopefully it ends up fully signed though.
Quote from: froggie on August 21, 2013, 06:50:33 AM
That's a possibility, but MnDOT has long been known to recycle/refinish old signs after sign replacement projects.
On a different note, while digging through Chisago County imagery for a GIS project, I noticed what might have been an old MN 243 alignment west of the curve near the river bridge. It looks like it used to tie into 263rd St. A quick check of MnDOT's project logs lists a 1953 project that relocated MN 243, but doesn't show the old alignment. Has anyone (Monte?) field-checked this?
I finally got a chance to field-check.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3726%2F10626411424_6f558a8c15.jpg&hash=58fa00b7066e1de011cf78b95d8d9e63e7368cb7) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/10626411424/)
MN 243 IMG_4220 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/10626411424/) by North Star Highways (http://www.flickr.com/people/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3750%2F10626386405_c8c19974fd.jpg&hash=d85beafd9a1ada33a2c83e3869636d0d8d054cf7) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/10626386405/)
MN 243 IMG_4224 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/10626386405/) by North Star Highways (http://www.flickr.com/people/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
The old road heading west of MN 243, the powerlines still follow this route.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3787%2F10626414796_846277bd26.jpg&hash=3dc4cb2d4f081f72655d0af9a1833fb0dba4fe04) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/10626414796/)
MN 243 IMG_4231 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/10626414796/) by North Star Highways (http://www.flickr.com/people/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
Opposite direction from MN 95. Part of the road is now a long driveway, marked No Trespassing so I didn't venture in.
I-35 southbound through the southwest part of downtown Duluth was unexpectedly shut down and will be for a few weeks after crews found a problem with a piling supporting the route's viaduct through that part of town. The route is closed from Lake Ave to I-535.
Another instance of pilings rusting out. Apparently this isn't just a Wisconsin thing (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10525.0)
Portion of southbound I-35 in Duluth closing for repairs
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/283870/
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/13/10/20speed.html
MnDOT's raising the rural (i.e. outside of towns/cities) speed limit from 55 to 60 on all of US 75, most of US 59 (south of Worthington and from Clarkfield to Marshall), and on MN 7 between US 75 and Appleton. This map (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/13/10/60mphmap.pdf) shows the general locations.
Quote from: flowmotion on May 19, 2012, 04:57:59 AM
Thanks for the list Froggie -- MnDOT has some informative project pages that come right up on Google.
I will miss that old-school I-694/MN 51 interchange though.
I drove that interchange at I-694 and MN 51 daily and trust me that it was no picnic in rush hour trying to get across from MN 51 north to continue on US 10. During construction, I was missing US 10 and MN 51 being open! It was several commutes on Silver Lake Road, Old Highway 8, and Lexington at double the time to get to work for me .....
I do wish that MNDot had used the other proposal that they had which was for higher speed ramps from MN 51 north to both I-694 and US 10 instead of the two loop ramps. Well, the new configuration is still a vast improvement over the weave and single through lane on I-694.
MnDOT updated their Logpoint a few weeks ago. A few items of note:
- US 63 is listed along its new routing around Rochester, utilizing US 52 and CSAH 14/75th St NW.
- MN 244 still exists in Washington County.
- MN 295, MN 332, and MN 333 are gone.
- While MN 361 was turned back, there are 8 bridges still listed on the Logpoint. What that likely means is those bridges still belong to MnDOT and are awaiting improvements before they get turned back.
- A new route, MN 410, is listed in the Logpoint between I-94 and US 10 but is also listed as "Non-Existent". The city codes suggest this is the designation MnDOT is giving to the planned I-94/US 10 connector near Clearwater and Clear Lake.
- A "MN 923" exists to reflect the segment of Old MN 23 through Paynesville that is to be turned back. Same case with a "US 963" along US 63's old alignment along Broadway Ave through Rochester (but only as far as CSAH 22/37th St NE).
If anyone cares about history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Minnesota/All-time_list
I think the only one missing from Riner's log is 234, which was proposed, then disappeared, then reappeared as an extension of 64.
Anyone know what LR 314 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/data/revisor/law/1959/0/1959-426.pdf) is?
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 08, 2013, 08:49:31 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 08, 2013, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 08, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
They could pull a sketchy Montana. http://goo.gl/maps/6bXGM
what's even sketchier is the green sign on the right. since when does an interstate pull-through get local town streets added to it?
Not unheard of. http://goo.gl/maps/TVHnp
And from the same area: http://goo.gl/maps/XXljy. It helps that MnDOT doesn't see control cities at freeway-freeway interchanges as important within the Twin Cities core.
Neither of those Minnesota examples is a pull-through...?
Quote from: NE2 on November 26, 2013, 06:57:45 PM
If anyone cares about history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Minnesota/All-time_list
I think the only one missing from Riner's log is 234, which was proposed, then disappeared, then reappeared as an extension of 64.
Anyone know what LR 314 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/data/revisor/law/1959/0/1959-426.pdf) is?
LR 314 was to be an access road to a proposed new Twin Cities airport on the north side of the Cities. The airport never came to be, nor did other proposed replacements for the current MSP airport, so the road never was established. LR 234 was the authorization to extend MN-64 north from MN-34 to what is now MN-200. Official maps for several years up until 1965 show the proposed route as MN-234, but when the road is shown as completed in 1966, it has the logical posted designation of MN-64. That segment is still LR-234.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on November 26, 2013, 10:21:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on November 26, 2013, 06:57:45 PM
I think the only one missing from Riner's log is 234, which was proposed, then disappeared, then reappeared as an extension of 64.
LR 234 was the authorization to extend MN-64 north from MN-34 to what is now MN-200. Official maps for several years up until 1965 show the proposed route as MN-234, but when the road is shown as completed in 1966, it has the logical posted designation of MN-64. That segment is still LR-234.
If original 252 is good enough for the log, so is 234. Just saying.
Quote from: NE2 on November 26, 2013, 10:41:04 PM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on November 26, 2013, 10:21:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on November 26, 2013, 06:57:45 PM
I think the only one missing from Riner's log is 234, which was proposed, then disappeared, then reappeared as an extension of 64.
LR 234 was the authorization to extend MN-64 north from MN-34 to what is now MN-200. Official maps for several years up until 1965 show the proposed route as MN-234, but when the road is shown as completed in 1966, it has the logical posted designation of MN-64. That segment is still LR-234.
If original 252 is good enough for the log, so is 234. Just saying.
LR designation is not necessarily the posted route number, as I'm sure you're aware. This isn't California where a concurrence is required. I know that LR 252 is the Austin bypass posted as U.S. 218 upon its completion, not to be confused with MN-252 (old U.S. 169) on the north side of the Cities. LR 234 is a discreet route segment while LR 252 is redundant because the route it supplanted was moved onto it.
The point is that several state maps labeled the proposed route as MN 234, not MN 64. MN 252 was similar, where it became I-90 and US 218 upon completion.
QuoteQuotewhat's even sketchier is the green sign on the right. since when does an interstate pull-through get local town streets added to it?
Not unheard of. http://goo.gl/maps/TVHnp
Just catching up, but I would not count this one based on the fact that this exit is the start of a C/D road and there is a secondary exit ramp off of that C/D road that goes to 11th Ave. The access to I-94 West was not original...but was a later add-on in the 1990s in order to eliminate the old WB 94/SB 35W ramp weave on the SB 35W mainline within the commons area.
QuoteAnyone know what LR 314 is?
Looks to me like a proposed but never-built/designated route between MN 47 south of St Francis and US 61 near Forest Lake that was to serve the never-built Bethel Airport.
I-35 in Duluth will reopen on Wednesday.
Funding for the final 2 miles of MN 610's route (west from Hennepin County 81 to I-94) has been approved and selection of contractors along with groundbreaking will take place in Fall 2014 with a 2016 completion date.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 26, 2013, 12:26:41 AM
Funding for the final 2 miles of MN 610's route (west from Hennepin County 81 to I-94) has been approved and selection of contractors along with groundbreaking will take place in Fall 2014 with a 2016 completion date.
So Mark Dayton reached into his pocket and found $120 million to complete the road after 25 years. This will compete the "North Crosstown" link, but one thing missing will be a flyover ramp to allow WB MN-610 traffic to go east on I-94. That will come later.
Whole story can be read here: http://www.startribune.com/local/north/237258561.html
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on December 26, 2013, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 26, 2013, 12:26:41 AM
Funding for the final 2 miles of MN 610's route (west from Hennepin County 81 to I-94) has been approved and selection of contractors along with groundbreaking will take place in Fall 2014 with a 2016 completion date.
So Mark Dayton reached into his pocket and found $120 million to complete the road after 25 years. This will compete the "North Crosstown" link, but one thing missing will be a flyover ramp to allow WB MN-610 traffic to go east on I-94. That will come later.
Whole story can be read here: http://www.startribune.com/local/north/237258561.html
when does MN have those? Usually they make them cloverleaf or double back
Quote from: froggie on November 27, 2013, 06:45:08 AM
QuoteQuotewhat's even sketchier is the green sign on the right. since when does an interstate pull-through get local town streets added to it?
Not unheard of. http://goo.gl/maps/TVHnp
Just catching up, but I would not count this one based on the fact that this exit is the start of a C/D road and there is a secondary exit ramp off of that C/D road that goes to 11th Ave. The access to I-94 West was not original...but was a later add-on in the 1990s in order to eliminate the old WB 94/SB 35W ramp weave on the SB 35W mainline within the commons area.
QuoteAnyone know what LR 314 is?
Looks to me like a proposed but never-built/designated route between MN 47 south of St Francis and US 61 near Forest Lake that was to serve the never-built Bethel Airport.
Maybe someone can draw it
The talk of a "flyover" is typical media misreporting, there's 4 different layouts (the 1994/2002 and 2012 layouts with and without the county extension), and none of them include a flyover for that movement. In 1994/2002 it's a loop and in 2012 it's not there in any form.
Monte's right. I've *NEVER* seen a flyover proposed for the WB 610 to EB 94 movement, nor would I see any need for it.
QuoteQuoteLooks to me like a proposed but never-built/designated route between MN 47 south of St Francis and US 61 near Forest Lake that was to serve the never-built Bethel Airport.
Maybe someone can draw it
Problem there is that there were never any location studies done on it (none that I could find at the MnDOT Library or the MN History Center, anyway), so any attempt to draw it out would be complete conjecture...
US 14/MN 42 in Eyota will get a roundabout by 2016:
http://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/roundabout-coming-to-dangerous-eyota-intersection/article_c0662498-6027-52f4-abcc-d3eafcb43a68.html
Quote from: froggie on January 01, 2014, 09:09:45 AM
Monte's right. I've *NEVER* seen a flyover proposed for the WB 610 to EB 94 movement, nor would I see any need for it.
QuoteQuoteLooks to me like a proposed but never-built/designated route between MN 47 south of St Francis and US 61 near Forest Lake that was to serve the never-built Bethel Airport.
Maybe someone can draw it
Problem there is that there were never any location studies done on it (none that I could find at the MnDOT Library or the MN History Center, anyway), so any attempt to draw it out would be complete conjecture...
This in the land of fantasy highways :)
Google Maps is showing a temporary crossover between the old and new Lafayette Bridge (https://maps.google.com/?ll=44.95098%2C-93.080742&spn=0.006515%2C0.011104&t=h&z=17) near I-94. The Google Streetview car has also made it onto a couple of the new ramps.
Quote from: froggie on January 16, 2014, 08:28:36 PM
Google Maps is showing a temporary crossover between the old and new Lafayette Bridge (https://maps.google.com/?ll=44.95098%2C-93.080742&spn=0.006515%2C0.011104&t=h&z=17) near I-94. The Google Streetview car has also made it onto a couple of the new ramps.
When we visited last month we were staying in Eagan. We took 52 up to go to Savoys and you cant get there!!!! There is a little right exit that was probably the right one, then east 94, then west, and you cant go to 7th anymore. We had to go all the way to Maryland St and then double back. And NB has an almost right turn jog on the bridge. What a mess!
Mn/DOT is moving cautiously in regards to LED lighting. They've accepted test units from vendors that want to be approved products, and installed them in Woodbury. There's been one full scale installation, but mostly they're still in the test phase. Mn/DOT bought enough from each manufacturer to convert a river bridge as a larger scale test. Now about a quarter of the lights on the I-35W Minnesota River bridge are out. Turns out a power surge blew out the surge protectors in each unit, and since this is still a test spare parts aren't stocked, so they had to order replacements from the manufacturer which is taking a while.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 26, 2013, 12:26:41 AM
Funding for the final 2 miles of MN 610's route (west from Hennepin County 81 to I-94) has been approved and selection of contractors along with groundbreaking will take place in Fall 2014 with a 2016 completion date.
Only 30 years after it started!
Depends on what you define as "started". The original corridor studies for the "North Crosstown" (what became MN 610) date back to 1973.
Quote from: froggie on January 28, 2014, 05:00:40 PM
Depends on what you define as "started". The original corridor studies for the "North Crosstown" (what became MN 610) date back to 1973.
Even worse. I remember riding my bike through there when they rerouted 95th street around 1986. One thing I really noticed driving to MN & WI from Texas last month is how the roads are just built with no forethought whatsoever. Most freeways still have only 2 lanes.
QuoteOne thing I really noticed driving to MN & WI from Texas last month is how the roads are just built with no forethought whatsoever. Most freeways still have only 2 lanes.
Are you referring to Minnesota freeways here? Factor in that we aren't dealing with Texas-sized population or traffic levels. Also consider that, due to their extensive use of ramp metering, the typical Twin Cities freeway can eke out higher volumes on fewer lanes than most other metropolitan areas. Lastly, freeways and freeway expansions are expensive, and MnDOT just doesn't have the funding to address the latter except in isolated cases here and there.
Quote from: froggie on January 29, 2014, 07:18:14 AM
QuoteOne thing I really noticed driving to MN & WI from Texas last month is how the roads are just built with no forethought whatsoever. Most freeways still have only 2 lanes.
Are you referring to Minnesota freeways here? Factor in that we aren't dealing with Texas-sized population or traffic levels. Also consider that, due to their extensive use of ramp metering, the typical Twin Cities freeway can eke out higher volumes on fewer lanes than most other metropolitan areas. Lastly, freeways and freeway expansions are expensive, and MnDOT just doesn't have the funding to address the latter except in isolated cases here and there.
Oh how I hated those stupid traffic meters. I don't miss them.
Looks like MnDOT is in litigation with Steele and Waseca Counties over the turnback of old US 14 between Janesville and Owatonna:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/13/12/31hwy14.html
Close to 2 years ago, I made a post (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg149617#msg149617) about underway and upcoming interchange projects in Minnesota. Here's an update, with several completed projects from that list and some new interchange (and roundabout) projects in the pipeline.
Completed (includes new roundabouts):
US 10/Otter Tail CSAH 34 near Perham
US 10/Ramsey CSAH 96 - Partial interchange
MN 13/Old MN 101 in Savage
US 14/Nicollet CSAH 41 near Mankato
US 14/Blue Earth CSAH 12 near Mankato
US 14/Waseca to Owatonna
MN 15/Stearns CR 120 in St. Cloud (Minnesota's 2nd DDI)
MN 23/Paynesville Bypass
MN 36/English St in Maplewood
US 52/Dakota CSAH 47 in Hampton
US 52/Elk Run near Oronoco (Minnesota's 1st DDI)
US 52/65th St NW in Rochester (not listed previously, a folded-diamond interchange built in 2013)
US 59/MN 60 in Worthington - New roundabouts
US 61/Washington CSAH 4 in Hugo - New roundabout
US 63/Olmsted CSAH 14 near Rochester - New roundabout
I-94/Albertville
US 169/Hennepin CSAH 30 in Osseo/Brooklyn Park (was moved from 2014 to 2013)
US 169/I-494 in Bloomington
US 169/Blue Earth - 3 new roundabouts
US 212/MN 284 in Cologne - A "Reduced Conflict Intersection". Effectively a 3/4 intersection with U-turns on either side. It's very similar to the intersection improvements Maryland has done on US 15 north of Frederick and US 301 on the Eastern Shore, or the "Superstreet" concept of NCDOT.
MN 284/10th St in Waconia - New roundabout
I-494/34th Ave in Bloomington (not listed previously, converted interchange to a DDI)
I-694/US 10/MN 51
Under construction:
MN 7/Louisiana Ave in St. Louis Park
US 10/Benton CSAH 2 in Rice
MN 13/Dakota CSAH 5 in Burnsville
I-35E/Cayuga St in St. Paul (part of the Cayuga Bridge project, replaces 3/4 interchange at Pennsylvania Ave)
MN 36/Hilton Trl in Pine Springs
MN 36/Stillwater Bridge (includes MN 95 interchange)
US 52/Goodhue CSAH 24 in Cannon Falls
I-94/US 52 (part of the Lafayette Bridge project)
US 169/Scott CSAH 69 in Shakopee
I-394/Ridgedale Dr in Minnetonka - Adding a WB on-ramp to complete a full interchange.
New/upcoming projects (includes known roundabout projects):
US 10/US 169/Anoka CSAH 83 in Ramsey - A partial-folded diamond (EB on-ramp loop) is planned. If the county can get bond funding, they hope to start the project this year.
US 14/MN 111/CSAH 23 near Nicollet - Part of the Nicollet bypass (to be built 2015-16). MnDOT considered downsizing the junction last fall based on preliminary findings (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/14newulmtonmankato/pdfs/preliminary_ice_findings.pdf), but an interchange with roundabouts is currently planned (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/14newulmtonmankato/pdfs/p5203104_cl_interchange_2-5-2014.pdf).
US 14/Steele CSAH 43 near Owatonna - Phase 1 (near Owatonna) of the plan to bridge the 4-lane gap between Owatonna and Dodge Center was funded as part of the Governor's "Corridors of Commerce", with construction to begin this year. A diamond interchange was the original plan at CSAH 43 (from the EIS vision for a freeway facility). This was then changed to a Reduced Conflict Intersection, but is now going to be built as a standard at-grade intersection instead.
US 14/MN 42 near Eyota - Mentioned upthread, a roundabout will be built in 2015.
MN 15/33rd St in St. Cloud - This is on the existing freeway segment of MN 15 south of MN 23. The plan is for a diamond interchange with roundabouts to be built this year.
MN 22 at both Blue Earth CSAH 17/Madison Ave and Adams St in Mankato - Roundabouts at both intersections are planned for this year.
MN 29/Douglas CSAH 28 near Alexandria - A roundabout is planned here as part of a larger project that will also reconstruct the I-94/MN 29 interchange (more or less as-is) and widen MN 29 to 4 lanes south to the new roundabout. The physical location of the roundabout will be at CR 87...CSAH 28 will be realigned to meet MN 29 at the new location.
MN 29/MN 55 near Glenwood - Not currently funded, the plan is to replace the existing at-grade intersection with a bridge on MN 29 over both MN 55 and the adjacent Canadian Pacific tracks. The connection between the two routes would be made via an improved 160th St.
I-35W/4th St in Minneapolis - Previously expected in 2012, construction will begin this year on a new on-ramp from 4th St to northbound I-35W near downtown Minneapolis.
US 52/Dakota CSAH 66 near Vermillion - MnDOT plans to build a "Reduced Conflict Intersection" this year.
US 52/Dakota CSAH 86 near Cannon Falls - Originally planned as a Reduced Conflict Intersection in 2013, a folded-diamond interchange will now be built in 2015.
US 52/Goodhue CSAH 9 south of Cannon Falls - This "pop-up" project (as Monte calls it) will build a folded-diamond interchange this year.
US 59/Willow St in Detroit Lanes - A roundabout is planned for this year.
MN 60/US 71 North in Windom - A roundabout is planned for 2017.
US 61/MN 97 in Forest Lake - This new 2015/16 project will build roundabouts at each of the 61/97 junctions. According to current plans, "free rights" will be provided for each MN 97 through-right movement off 61, and also from WB 97 to NB 61.
I-94/US 75 in Moorhead - Planned for 2016, there are 3 alternatives being considered for reconstruction of this interchange: a DDI, a 5-ramp par-clo, and a 6-ramp par-clo.
MN 100/St Louis Park - The long-awaited full reconstruction of MN 100 in St. Louis Park begins this year. The plan includes reconstructing the interchanges at MN 7 (into a 5-ramp par-clo) and CSAH 5/Minnetonka Blvd (into a tight diamond).
MN 101/Hennepin CSAH 144 in Rogers - Planned for this year, this project will effectively complete a freeway on northbound MN 101 between Rogers and Elk River (signals will remain for southbound MN 101 near I-94). The plan is for a diverging diamond.
MN 610/Maple Grove - As noted upthread, construction begins this year to extend MN 610 to I-94.
QuoteUS 14/Steele CSAH 43 near Owatonna - A diamond interchange is included here in the 1st phase of the overall project to bridge the 4-lane gap between Owatonna and Dodge Center. Phase 1 (near Owatonna) was funded as part of the Governor's "Corridors of Commerce", with construction to begin this year.
I made a mistake here. While an interchange was part of the original plan for the 4-laning of US 14, it appears that an at-grade intersection (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/newsrels/14/02/4hwy14.html) will be built instead...
Quote from: froggie on February 03, 2014, 03:57:46 PM
New/upcoming projects (includes known roundabout projects):
US 10/US 169/Anoka CSAH 83 in Ramsey - A partial-folded diamond (EB on-ramp loop) is planned. If the county can get bond funding, they hope to start the project this year.
What do they plan to do with the railroad paralleling 10/169? That's a pretty high-traffic rail corridor.
CSAH 83 would bridge over both the railroad and 10/169. It's a scenario roughly similar to US 12/Hennepin CSAH 6 west of Long Lake.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 26, 2013, 12:26:41 AM
Funding for the final 2 miles of MN 610's route (west from Hennepin County 81 to I-94) has been approved and selection of contractors along with groundbreaking will take place in Fall 2014 with a 2016 completion date.
Will part of it run in the median of Hennepin County 81? Where will it branch off to head towards I-94?
Quote from: froggie on February 03, 2014, 03:57:46 PM
I-94/US 75 in Moorhead - Planned for 2016, there are 3 alternatives being considered for reconstruction of this interchange: a DDI, a 5-ramp par-clo, and a 6-ramp par-clo.
Is this really needed?
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 12:47:06 PMWill part of it run in the median of Hennepin County 81? Where will it branch off to head towards I-94?
Roughly here (https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=45.13725,-93.455822&hl=en&sll=45.135903,-93.453097&sspn=0.01161,0.019205&t=h&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=16&z=16).
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 12:48:31 PMQuoteI-94/US 75 in Moorhead - Planned for 2016, there are 3 alternatives being considered for reconstruction of this interchange: a DDI, a 5-ramp par-clo, and a 6-ramp par-clo.
Is this really needed?
Yes. There is some recurring congestion on US 75 at the interchange.
Please don't strip quote attributions. ~S
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 12:47:06 PM
Will part of it run in the median of Hennepin County 81? Where will it branch off to head towards I-94?
That's looking very Texas
All three options for US 75 and I-94 have the same 2035 LOS.
Prediction- A Diverging Diamond gets built because it's cheapest.
Motorcyclist hits pothole on I-394
Paywalled Article
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/249682451.html?page=2&c=y
Motorcyclist was going 100-120 mph on I-394 without a helmet and hit a pothole. Let us draw a curtain of charity over the rest of the scene. This was the stretch were the concrete was the finished with the older method of using a fine rake which left a regular series of grooves resulting in a high pitched whine. The pavement was in good shape but the neighbors complained about the noise, so as part of the settlement to allow I-394 to be restriped to 3 lanes, a thin overlay was put on. Since it wasn't needed for engineering reasons it was thin and thus prone to peeling away.
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 12, 2014, 03:41:33 PMthe neighbors complained about the noise
the worst of NIMBYism. the environmental impact is almost exactly the same for concrete. in fact, it's lower, since you don't have to lay new surface as often, thus not releasing as much byproducts of the solidifying process into the air.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 12, 2014, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 12, 2014, 03:41:33 PMthe neighbors complained about the noise
the worst of NIMBYism. the environmental impact is almost exactly the same for concrete. in fact, it's lower, since you don't have to lay new surface as often, thus not releasing as much byproducts of the solidifying process into the air.
False. You're not supposed to use lateral grooves in residential areas because of the noise. Noise is a very real impact, especially when you're adding a feature to a highway that doesn't already have it. Longitudinal grooves were the old way of dealing with it, and now there's diamond grinding. (In other words, you're not supposed to use a thin layer of asphalt either.) Just because people are speaking out doesn't make it NIMBYism.
Some people were saying Mn/DOT put down noisy concrete to punish the neighborhood for their opposition to the highway- it's asphalt farther west. (The actual reason is that Mn/DOT likes to use concrete on high volume roadways, but farther west they couldn't because the soils were soft and swampy- the technique of putting concrete over a layer of asphalt in such places hadn't been developed. Nor had the newer method of making concrete less noisy by finishing it with weighted astroturf rather than a rake).
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 12, 2014, 09:15:16 PM
Some people were saying Mn/DOT put down noisy concrete to punish the neighborhood for their opposition to the highway- it's asphalt farther west. (The actual reason is that Mn/DOT likes to use concrete on high volume roadways, but farther west they couldn't because the soils were soft and swampy- the technique of putting concrete over a layer of asphalt in such places hadn't been developed. Nor had the newer method of making concrete less noisy by finishing it with weighted astroturf rather than a rake).
Again, though, longitudinal grooving, diamond finish, or anything else that doesn't leave consistently spaced horizontal grooves is quieter than consistently spaced horizontal grooves. It's more than just an issue of it being concrete. It may or may not be political, but the people have a right to complain.
Another "popup project" that's been in the works since last year, but I haven't been aware of it. Overpass and "interchange" at Goodhue County 9. The county didn't like the idea of a reduced conflict intersection so they came up with some of their own money and got some grants. For now they're cheaping out by building what's more like right turns as opposed to ramps, but the plan is to upgrade them later as traffic increases. This is a design-build so it is going to go up rapidly and may even be done at the same time later this year as the Cannon Falls interchange.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com%2Fsouthernminn.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F6%2F87%2F687c55d9-c133-58a9-abe4-0aa335ba379b%2F51ce5c3e3bfe8.image.jpg&hash=21705023baa5bea1d7e22ee00991d6656f206e07)
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 12:47:06 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 26, 2013, 12:26:41 AM
Funding for the final 2 miles of MN 610's route (west from Hennepin County 81 to I-94) has been approved and selection of contractors along with groundbreaking will take place in Fall 2014 with a 2016 completion date.
Will part of it run in the median of Hennepin County 81? Where will it branch off to head towards I-94?
I live about 15 minutes from there, will post some photos when the project starts .....
Couple things of note from a short trip around the area today:
- The one traffic signal that existed in Gaylord has been removed. The signal posts and mast arms are still inplace (for the trailblazer signs), but the signals themselves are gone, replaced by 2-way stop control on 4th St (MN 22 South).
- I noticed at least three counties (Dakota, Goodhue, and Sibley) that are a hodgepodge of pentagon shields and the white square shields for county routes...including both being used for county state aid routes. Not sure if they're in the process of transitioning from one to another or if this is a case of it "just happened to be".
Quote from: froggie on April 05, 2014, 12:04:21 AM
Couple things of note from a short trip around the area today:
- The one traffic signal that existed in Gaylord has been removed. The signal posts and mast arms are still inplace (for the trailblazer signs), but the signals themselves are gone, replaced by 2-way stop control on 4th St (MN 22 South).
- I noticed at least three counties (Dakota, Goodhue, and Sibley) that are a hodgepodge of pentagon shields and the white square shields for county routes...including both being used for county state aid routes. Not sure if they're in the process of transitioning from one to another or if this is a case of it "just happened to be".
Dakota has selected a few major, cross-county CSAH's that use the pentagon. The rest use the square. Goodhue uses the pentagon to differentiate between CSAH and non-CSAH. I'm not sure of Sibley County's policy, though.
QuoteGoodhue uses the pentagon to differentiate between CSAH and non-CSAH. I'm not sure of Sibley County's policy, though.
My point was that I found examples in both Goodhue and Sibley where they were using both the pentagon and the white square for CSAH.
Quote from: froggie on April 05, 2014, 12:51:26 AM
QuoteGoodhue uses the pentagon to differentiate between CSAH and non-CSAH. I'm not sure of Sibley County's policy, though.
My point was that I found examples in both Goodhue and Sibley where they were using both the pentagon and the white square for CSAH.
That is odd. MN/DOT commonly goofs up and only posts the squares in Goodhue County, but I haven't seen a goof from the county itself since around 2010, when the last white square was replaced on CSAH 9 during a resurfacing project in Dennison.
Two new interchanges to the list- US 24 and MN 111 as part of the Nicollet bypass, and US 52 / County 86 to be built in 2015. Seems like reduced conflict intersections are more alluring to the suits in the office than the people that drive them daily.
Lack of exposure, or at least connecting the dots. There are numerous 3/4 intersections around, but people don't figure out that the RCI is the same concept. Probably because we're talking about rural areas. That said, 212/284 had an RCI put in.
Part of it might also be that the vision for 52 for over 10 years now has been to eventually convert it to a freeway. People see RCIs proposed and poo-pooh it, whereas they see interchanges put in and see progress towards that eventual goal.
I edited my interchange post (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg275765#msg275765) to update a few things including the 52/County 86 project that Monte just mentioned.
Another new project I just found: District 4 has a plan to replace the existing MN 29/MN 55 intersection just north of Glenwood with an overpass for MN 29 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/glenwoodoverpass/), bridging over both MN 55 and the adjacent Canadian Pacific tracks. There's no funding for it yet, but it makes a lot of sense. Connections between 29 and 55 would be made via an improved 160th St.
Took a trip to the south to check out some construction projects:
#US 52 RCI @ County 66th- lanes closed and barreled off, the cross roads have been constructed but not the U-turns.
#US 52 and County 86: no construction yet
#US 52 @ Cannon Falls: overpass is looking to be close to completion, paving for the new roads has not started yet, looks like the final grading is getting done. The new gravel frontage roads are in various states of completion.
#US 52 @ County 1 & 9: crossovers have been closed and lanes barreled off, no sign of the new bridge yet.
#US 52 at Zumbrota: there's still temporary looking signs for business access and barriers up in the area.
#US 63 Rochester reroute: correct signs at the roundabout and northbound on US 52 approaching the north exit- these were modified as part of the 65th street project. Reassurance shields on the old US 63 have been pulled down but the cross street signs are still intact. No other signs have been changed anywhere, even on US 63 north approaching US 52- the signs just disappear rather than direction you onto US 52.
#US 52 and 65th: project completed.
#US 52 and 55th: the sidewalk on the south side of the overpass has been demolished, no work on widening the bridge yet. Intersection of 41st and the frontage road has been retrofited with flashing yellow arrows, they had to extend the mast because the frontage road used to be permissive only.
#US 14 at Owatonna. No work yet. I honestly don't know why they're bothering if their not going to build an interchange, and the new stretch of four lane will be so short.
#I-35 at Owatonna: inner lanes barreled off, no work on the crossovers yet.
#I-35 Lakeville- 2 way traffic in northbound lanes, didn't see much else because of rain.
Found this interesting photo, related to a "situation"/standoff yesterday. Apparently, BIA also posts "Indian Routes" in Minnesota. This photo is just off MN 1 near Redby:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bemidjipioneer.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Ffull_1000%2Fpublic%2Ffieldimages%2F2%2F0620%2Fmyredlakeshoot620.jpg&hash=d31f213b92251c211c9039a76aaf7c2c372834b4)
Here's Google Streetview of how MnDOT signs it from westbound MN 1 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=47.882477,-94.881749&spn=0.017672,0.045447&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=47.882473,-94.881864&panoid=n1WZK2GAOz4VFFGSwAmcyA&cbp=12,281.39,,0,7.73).
Have any of the Minnesota regulars (Monte, Moland, etc) come across signage like this? I admit I haven't, though my MN reservation travels have been pretty limited.
I've seen one just south of Cass Lake. I wish I would have snapped a picture. :-/
I did find it on google maps. Looks like the route I saw is 1004. (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.272408,-94.627342,3a,15y,120.4h,83.83t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sm2qFwBLnAVFM_8xPqiud8g!2e0?hl=en)
Quick question, inspired by some mileage signs seen in the construction plans for MnDOT SP 8809-20: what are the "Range Cities"?
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 04, 2014, 06:03:47 PM
Quick question, inspired by some mileage signs seen in the construction plans for MnDOT SP 8809-20: what are the "Range Cities"?
I believe they are towns up in the Iron Range.
Quote from: on_wisconsin on July 04, 2014, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 04, 2014, 06:03:47 PM
Quick question, inspired by some mileage signs seen in the construction plans for MnDOT SP 8809-20: what are the "Range Cities"?
I believe they are towns up in the Iron Range.
Correct. Roughly correlates to the cities along US/MN 169 northeast of Grand Rapids in northeastern Minnesota.
Likely referring to the mining cities (in Minnesota, any incorporated municipality is by definition a "city") along the Mesabi Range...generally along US 169 between Grand Rapids and Virginia.
Does anyone know if MnDOT has any plans to improve or rebuild the eastern I-494/694/94 interchange? A flyover ramp and especially some C/D lanes on 494/694 would do wonders there.
They don't.
Bummer, C/D roads along 494/694 would do wonders for that cloverleaf. At least they extended the accel lanes so you have (a little) more distance than just what's between the loop ramps.
Just to thank those who responded upthread to my "Range Cities" question. I have now gone back and looked at the plan sheets more closely. "Range Cities" as defined refers to a 60-mile segment of US 169 between Grand Rapids and Virginia, so for distance signing purposes, I think distances are calculated on a "nearest neighbor" basis.
For example, SP 8809-20 calls for installation of the following distance sign: Grandy 5, Mora 23, Range Cities 129. These are forward destinations for TH 65 northbound and the distance given for "Range Cities" is actually the distance to Pengilly (US 169/TH 65 intersection), approximately midway between Grand Rapids and Virginia.
Minnesota is always well behind on building what they need. I forgot how many 2 lane freeways there were in the 8 years since I moved away.
With regard to the "Range Cities" question, that usage has been around since I moved to Minnesota (70s). I always took it to be centered around Hibbing and Virginia, without calculating a distance to any particular spot. In our recent trip there, I was surprised to see the "Twin Cities" control designation has basically disappeared on I-35 from the south. Now, you see alternating Minneapolis and St. Paul distances, and both cities on guide signs.
But yet (off-topic) you see "The Oranges" and "The Amboys", etc in New Jersey :-D
Quote from: texaskdog on July 08, 2014, 10:44:08 AM
Minnesota is always well behind on building what they need. I forgot how many 2 lane freeways there were in the 8 years since I moved away.
Oh let me tell ya. Some of the things they plan is dumb too. Like The 694 by Lake Valentine. It took two years worth of construction, TO MOVE IT OVER A FEW FEET! They didn't even widen the lanes!
The groundbreaking was held a couple weeks ago on the MN-43 Mississippi River bridge project at Winona. The existing 1940s truss bridge was closed for a couple months back in 2008 when a rusted-through gusset plate was found, and after temporary repairs Mn/DOT started planning the rebuild project.
The project will build a new bridge just to the upstream side of the existing bridge, and traffic will be moved over to it (2016) and the existing bridge closed for rehabilitation. Once rehab is done (2019) both bridges will be opened turning it into a four-lane crossing.
Some historical photos here:
http://www.winonadailynews.com/special-section/winona-bridge-project/
The profile of the new bridge reminds me a little of the I-35W bridge. Must be Mn/DOT's new favorite bridge type.
That's an amazing number of bicyclists and pedestrians, and someone forgot to tell the animator that traffic signals are no longer yellow. As for the project itself, I think it would have been better for the new bridge to end on Huff St, there might be too much traffic dumped onto Winona St. in the future.
Yeah Winona St does turn residential just a couple blocks from the bridge but most of the traffic turns at 4th or Broadway. Didn't ever seem to be an issue. Connecting it to Huff would've also caused issues with Riverview Drive, and I imagine the city wants Riverview the way it is since it provides the direct access to the river port.
I'm glad they're retaining and renovating that existing bridge at Winona. I always loved those older truss-cantilever bridges across the Mississippi. My favorite is the one at Lansing, IA.
Quote from: AplikowskiTheMinnesotan on July 24, 2014, 03:54:41 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on July 08, 2014, 10:44:08 AM
Minnesota is always well behind on building what they need. I forgot how many 2 lane freeways there were in the 8 years since I moved away.
Oh let me tell ya. Some of the things they plan is dumb too. Like The 694 by Lake Valentine. It took two years worth of construction, TO MOVE IT OVER A FEW FEET! They didn't even widen the lanes!
Yes, I live just north of there and made no sense to me why this section was not widened to 6 lanes. Thankfully the nasty weave between I-694/US 10/MN 51 Snelling was fixed and now don't have cross 2 lanes of traffic twice a day going from 10 to Snelling and returning for my daily commute!
Got around to Cass Lake again today, finally snapped a better picture of a Minnesota Indian route sign! Indian Route 1004 is Oak Point road: not a dead-end road, but a road that loops back and junctions itself as it serves a few campgrounds and resorts along Leech Lake, between Steamboat Bay and Sucker Bay.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/14915154489_5b3bea9744_c.jpg)
Quote from: I94RoadRunner on August 13, 2014, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: AplikowskiTheMinnesotan on July 24, 2014, 03:54:41 AM
Oh let me tell ya. Some of the things they plan is dumb too. Like The 694 by Lake Valentine. It took two years worth of construction, TO MOVE IT OVER A FEW FEET! They didn't even widen the lanes!
Yes, I live just north of there and made no sense to me why this section was not widened to 6 lanes. Thankfully the nasty weave between I-694/US 10/MN 51 Snelling was fixed and now don't have cross 2 lanes of traffic twice a day going from 10 to Snelling and returning for my daily commute!
I believe this (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i694shoreview/index.html) should address your concern...
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2014, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: I94RoadRunner on August 13, 2014, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: AplikowskiTheMinnesotan on July 24, 2014, 03:54:41 AM
Oh let me tell ya. Some of the things they plan is dumb too. Like The 694 by Lake Valentine. It took two years worth of construction, TO MOVE IT OVER A FEW FEET! They didn't even widen the lanes!
Yes, I live just north of there and made no sense to me why this section was not widened to 6 lanes. Thankfully the nasty weave between I-694/US 10/MN 51 Snelling was fixed and now don't have cross 2 lanes of traffic twice a day going from 10 to Snelling and returning for my daily commute!
I believe this (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i694shoreview/index.html) should address your concern...
Yes Adam, that will be a big improvement once it gets going. I only wonder why MNDOT did not go ahead and widen the section between I-35W and US 10 when they spent all of that time and money to move the road a few feet .....? Now if they want to widen that 2 mile section, they will have to go back and tear it all up again .....
QuoteYes Adam, that will be a big improvement once it gets going. I only wonder why MNDOT did not go ahead and widen the section between I-35W and US 10 when they spent all of that time and money to move the road a few feet .....? Now if they want to widen that 2 mile section, they will have to go back and tear it all up again .....
A) They didn't have the money to widen it when they redid the Island Lake bridges, which were overdue for a rebuild. What money they did have for 694 at the time rightfully went to undoing the mess at Snelling/Hwy 10.
B) The bridges were rebuilt with future widening already in mind. There is no "tearing it all up again" necessary.
I will have to send you a pic of the new bridges, they did not look like they were wide enough to accommodate another lane of traffic .....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi912.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac330%2Fmolandfreak%2F5573FFEC-CA58-4DA7-A57C-FEA08F73BFBF_zpsnepibisf.jpg&hash=b83376cecadac78acedf39dbf0448a8af52b5029)
MN/DOT installation, neutered county 42 shield west of U.S. 61.
Installed directly as part of the Hastings bridge?
That's what I'm assuming. MN/DOT stickers are on the back, not county ones.
Hastings has a couple of other "neutered" county road shields posted on US 61. These are JCT signs though, and they're slightly more awkward because "COUNTY" is posted on the bottom of the pentagons.
Possibly a contractor error, since MnDOT sign standards clearly point out the county name should be included on "independent" (i.e. standalone) markers. It's on guide signage that the county name is omitted.
MNDot tentatively planning a six-month shutdown of US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter sometime in 2016 in order to improve safety as well as raise the road level to end frequent road flooding:
http://www.kare11.com/story/news/local/minnesota/2014/11/17/mankato-st-peter-highway-196-construction/19195509/
Two different detour routes are planned: MN 22 on the east side and MN 99 on the west side. I expect the detour you follow will depend on what direction of 169 you are driving.
That would be this project (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/floodmitigation/). They did St. Peter to Le Sueur this year, which also included converting two intersections on the north side of St. Peter to RCI's (Reduced-Conflict Intersections) and removing a few other median crossings.
Next year's construction will raise MN 22 between 169/99 and the Minnesota River bridge.
For 169 between Mankato and St. Peter, there's not much they can do to avoid a detour. It's a pretty tight fit in there between the river bluff and the river, and there's very little median along much of it.
There was a homicide at the Elm Creek rest area in Maple Grove when one man from Washington state shot another one, then led police on a high speed chase across the northern suburbs ending when he crashed at I-694 and Snelling, and was himself shot by police when he got out brandishing a weapon. It's still unclear what the motivation was or even why they were here. Elm Creek has always felt weird and unsafe to me for some reason, and I avoid stopping there. Some homeless live in cars there (and at Hudson) where the staff tolerate them as long as they don't leave a mess.
Quote from: Mdcastle on December 19, 2014, 02:39:47 PM
There was a homicide at the Elm Creek rest area in Maple Grove when one man from Washington state shot another one, then led police on a high speed chase across the northern suburbs ending when he crashed at I-694 and Snelling, and was himself shot by police when he got out brandishing a weapon. It's still unclear what the motivation was or even why they were here. Elm Creek has always felt weird and unsafe to me for some reason, and I avoid stopping there. Some homeless live in cars there (and at Hudson) where the staff tolerate them as long as they don't leave a mess.
I felt like that rest area became obsolete anyway when Maple Grove exploded in services and population in the last decade. Never needed to stop there despite driving past it for years.
MNDot has tentatively selected its plan to rebuild and realign part of MN 1/169 east of Tower. The "hybrid" Option 3A southern route was chosen which means the west part of the rebuild will be new road and the east part will utilize the existing route; there are concerns remaining over sulfur content in rocks in the area that could be released by blasting. Work expected to begin in 2017.
The road will be straighter with more passing zones, more turn lanes, and a bigger clear zone in the hopes that more sunlight will mitigate ice concerns.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy169eagles/
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy169eagles/docs/layout-lrg.pdf
When did MN 55 get rerouted off of 7th and 8th in downtown Minneapolis and onto I-94 between Olson Memorial and Hiawatha?
years ago - don't ask exactly how many but I know it was before 2012.
If you're interested in the answer rather than simply making small talk: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5112
SPUI: this was a recent transfer, so it wouldn't have been on those historic map scans.
To answer bick's question....officially, MnDOT never actually transferred MN 55 onto an I-94 concurrency. There's officially a gap through downtown. The drop through downtown happened between mid-2004 and mid-2005.
Quote from: froggie on December 30, 2014, 05:12:46 PM
this was a recent transfer, so it wouldn't have been on those historic map scans.
Sure it is. The 2007-08 shows it, but the 2009-10 has it (messily) removed. If you're right about the date, they forgot to remove it earlier.
MN 55 is now fully signed as to where it joins I-94 after MnDOT replaced the signs at the I-94/Hiawatha Ave interchange earlier this year.
Quote from: froggie on December 30, 2014, 05:12:46 PM
SPUI: this was a recent transfer, so it wouldn't have been on those historic map scans.
To answer bick's question....officially, MnDOT never actually transferred MN 55 onto an I-94 concurrency. There's officially a gap through downtown. The drop through downtown happened between mid-2004 and mid-2005.
Ah, I'd never noticed the route drop between the 2002 Thomas Bros paper map (the only year they did anything for the Cities) and the 2005 or 2008 King atlases.
I've noticed that the state highway shield outline has gone from a tan/yellow to a more vivid orange on new standalone placements. I'll get pictures as soon as possible. It's not as noticeable on BGSs as standalone shields.
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/289687251.html
Strib article about roundabouts in Minnesota, and mentions how MnDOT recently changed its engineering standards to give roundabouts equal weight to traffic signals.
There are several rural highway junctions in western and southwestern Minnesota that I think would be excellent roundabout candidates. These locations are either all-way stops or have traffic signals, the latter of which IMO are very out of place for their rural character:
- US 14/US 59 west of Tracy
- US 14/US 71 near Sanborn
- US 71/MN 7 south of Willmar
- US 75/US 212 south of Madison
- US 212/MN 15 near Brownton
- MN 15/MN 24/MN 55 in Kimball
I think a great place for a roundabout would be MN 25/MN 95 near Foley. It's a four-way stop currently.
Wonder about the feasibility of a Medford-type setup at I-35/MN 23/Pine CR 61 at Hinckley with roundabouts on both sides of 35. 61 comes in from the southeast side of the interchange, takes a sharp turn west to cross 35, then turns north again off MN 23 as a frontage road to 35.
QuoteI think a great place for a roundabout would be MN 25/MN 95 near Foley. It's a four-way stop currently.
South of Foley, yes. They probably even could have put one in at MN 23/MN 25 in Foley when they widened 23, though they reinstalled the signal instead.
To my surprise, the County 9 exit on U.S. 52 is labled Exit 89. Maybe MN/Dot will phase out the unnumbered exits on 52 sooner than I expected.
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 28, 2015, 10:19:29 PM
To my surprise, the County 9 exit on U.S. 52 is labled Exit 89. Maybe MN/Dot will phase out the unnumbered exits on 52 sooner than I expected.
Where is that? I tried to find it on Maps and couldn't. Interesting though as I think that places north of the MN 60 exits and as far as I know those are unnumbered.
North of the junction with MN57. It's the road that leads to Dennison westbound and Goodhue eastbound. Formerly an at-grade. :)
Also: U-52: I-35EE?
Here. (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3993989,-92.8441766,17z?hl=en)
Quote from: NE2 on January 28, 2015, 11:42:37 PM
Also: U-52: I-35EE?
Nope, I-69NN :cool:
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 13, 2014, 11:22:44 PM
Another "popup project" that's been in the works since last year, but I haven't been aware of it. Overpass and "interchange" at Goodhue County 9. The county didn't like the idea of a reduced conflict intersection so they came up with some of their own money and got some grants. For now they're cheaping out by building what's more like right turns as opposed to ramps, but the plan is to upgrade them later as traffic increases. This is a design-build so it is going to go up rapidly and may even be done at the same time later this year as the Cannon Falls interchange.
Just noticed this, so a bump here; the county isn't to blame for shooting down the reduced conflict intersection as much as local residents who cross there with tractors/other heavy machinery. That makes up a good deal of the traffic that crosses 52 there, so that's why the reduced conflict intersection would have been terrible. My aunt (who is a MN/DOT employee) and I use the road on a regular basis and agreed it would do more harm than good. Complaints from us and many others in the area are what prompted the county to come up with money for the overpass.
Quote from: Milepost61 on July 27, 2014, 05:17:41 PM
The groundbreaking was held a couple weeks ago on the MN-43 Mississippi River bridge project at Winona. The existing 1940s truss bridge was closed for a couple months back in 2008 when a rusted-through gusset plate was found, and after temporary repairs Mn/DOT started planning the rebuild project.
The project will build a new bridge just to the upstream side of the existing bridge, and traffic will be moved over to it (2016) and the existing bridge closed for rehabilitation. Once rehab is done (2019) both bridges will be opened turning it into a four-lane crossing.
Some historical photos here:
http://www.winonadailynews.com/special-section/winona-bridge-project/
The profile of the new bridge reminds me a little of the I-35W bridge. Must be Mn/DOT's new favorite bridge type.
I remember crossing the old Wabasha bridge the day I crossed this (1983?). The Wabasha bridge must be long gone. http://www.dajensen-family.com/roads/mn60bridge.html
On a side note I've always wondered why US 63 wasn't rerouted over MN 58 from Zumbrota to Red Wing? Once US 52 went to 4 lanes it would seem to make more sense and now it has an even stranger routing through Rochester. Red Wing doesn't really need two US highways either.
QuoteTo my surprise, the County 9 exit on U.S. 52 is labled Exit 89. Maybe MN/Dot will phase out the unnumbered exits on 52 sooner than I expected.
Not really surprised. We saw it with ROC52 that MnDOT is opening up to exit numbers on the non-Interstates...at least along 52.
What's surprising is that they gave CSAH 9 an exit number with the ramps as tight as they were designed...unless they got built to something other than the design spec I saw.
Regarding Wabasha bridge: the old bridge was gone by 1991 (my first time in Wabasha). All that was left was the approach.
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 08:38:18 AM
On a side note I've always wondered why US 63 wasn't rerouted over MN 58 from Zumbrota to Red Wing? Once US 52 went to 4 lanes it would seem to make more sense and now it has an even stranger routing through Rochester. Red Wing doesn't really need two US highways either.
Do you mean Lake City? Or are you suggesting truncating it to Rochester X-( ? 63 serves a bunch of county seats in Wisconsin, as well as a bunch of tourist hubs like Hayward and the Ashland area.
Quote from: froggie on January 29, 2015, 09:48:16 AM
Not really surprised. We saw it with ROC52 that MnDOT is opening up to exit numbers on the non-Interstates...at least along 52.
That isn't the point, though. The point is all the other exits in the area are unnumbered, so it doesn't make sense to number this one. Especially when the new Cannon Falls interchange has no exit number, either.
Quote from: froggie on January 29, 2015, 09:48:16 AM
What's surprising is that they gave CSAH 9 an exit number with the ramps as tight as they were designed...unless they got built to something other than the design spec I saw.
It's about as much of an exit as this is. Same 20mph advisory, too. The only difference is that the acceleration lane is longer and doesn't connect to another exit. (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.977177,-93.400332,3a,41.5y,16.03h,88.22t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s2PfHcVZjagaIPo3AAiU8rw!2e0?hl=en) :nod:
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 08:38:18 AM
On a side note I've always wondered why US 63 wasn't rerouted over MN 58 from Zumbrota to Red Wing? Once US 52 went to 4 lanes it would seem to make more sense and now it has an even stranger routing through Rochester. Red Wing doesn't really need two US highways either.
The original, and unofficial, US 59 went from Lake City to the Iowa border through Rochester in 1934 and got taken over by US 63 the next year. I do have to admit the idea of US 63 taking over MN 58 seems like a good idea, although it creates the concept of US 61 and US 63 not intersecting, since US 63 loops around to cross over the Mississippi River.
Quote from: DandyDan on January 29, 2015, 04:32:53 PM
it creates the concept of US 61 and US 63 not intersecting, since US 63 loops around to cross over the Mississippi River.
Whoa, two routes not intersecting except by a connector road. That never happens.
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 29, 2015, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 08:38:18 AM
On a side note I've always wondered why US 63 wasn't rerouted over MN 58 from Zumbrota to Red Wing? Once US 52 went to 4 lanes it would seem to make more sense and now it has an even stranger routing through Rochester. Red Wing doesn't really need two US highways either.
Do you mean Lake City? Or are you suggesting truncating it to Rochester X-( ? 63 serves a bunch of county seats in Wisconsin, as well as a bunch of tourist hubs like Hayward and the Ashland area.
okay when 63 enters Minnesota I have it going straight south from Red Wing to Zumbrota.
Quote from: DandyDan on January 29, 2015, 04:32:53 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 08:38:18 AM
On a side note I've always wondered why US 63 wasn't rerouted over MN 58 from Zumbrota to Red Wing? Once US 52 went to 4 lanes it would seem to make more sense and now it has an even stranger routing through Rochester. Red Wing doesn't really need two US highways either.
The original, and unofficial, US 59 went from Lake City to the Iowa border through Rochester in 1934 and got taken over by US 63 the next year. I do have to admit the idea of US 63 taking over MN 58 seems like a good idea, although it creates the concept of US 61 and US 63 not intersecting, since US 63 loops around to cross over the Mississippi River.
Using your logic, Interstates never touch each other :)
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 29, 2015, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 08:38:18 AM
On a side note I've always wondered why US 63 wasn't rerouted over MN 58 from Zumbrota to Red Wing? Once US 52 went to 4 lanes it would seem to make more sense and now it has an even stranger routing through Rochester. Red Wing doesn't really need two US highways either.
Do you mean Lake City? Or are you suggesting truncating it to Rochester X-( ? 63 serves a bunch of county seats in Wisconsin, as well as a bunch of tourist hubs like Hayward and the Ashland area.
okay when 63 enters Minnesota I have it going straight south from Red Wing to Zumbrota.
I was actually confused by the "Red Wing doesn't need two US highways either" part of your post.
Quote from: DandyDan on January 29, 2015, 04:32:53 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 08:38:18 AM
On a side note I've always wondered why US 63 wasn't rerouted over MN 58 from Zumbrota to Red Wing? Once US 52 went to 4 lanes it would seem to make more sense and now it has an even stranger routing through Rochester. Red Wing doesn't really need two US highways either.
The original, and unofficial, US 59 went from Lake City to the Iowa border through Rochester in 1934 and got taken over by US 63 the next year. I do have to admit the idea of US 63 taking over MN 58 seems like a good idea, although it creates the concept of US 61 and US 63 not intersecting, since US 63 loops around to cross over the Mississippi River.
Even if U.S. 63 were rerouted, its current alignment would have to remain a state highway since it's Constitutional Route 59 - which may have originally resulted in the brief U.S. 59 designation.
Things will change dramatically on the Red Wing approach- you'd have a short opposite direction multiplex of north 63 and south 61
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/redwing-bridge/pdfs/minnesota-approach.pdf
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 29, 2015, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 29, 2015, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 08:38:18 AM
On a side note I've always wondered why US 63 wasn't rerouted over MN 58 from Zumbrota to Red Wing? Once US 52 went to 4 lanes it would seem to make more sense and now it has an even stranger routing through Rochester. Red Wing doesn't really need two US highways either.
Do you mean Lake City? Or are you suggesting truncating it to Rochester X-( ? 63 serves a bunch of county seats in Wisconsin, as well as a bunch of tourist hubs like Hayward and the Ashland area.
okay when 63 enters Minnesota I have it going straight south from Red Wing to Zumbrota.
I was actually confused by the "Red Wing doesn't need two US highways either" part of your post.
Oh, I meant Lake City
It's a full 15 minutes longer to follow 63 through lake City than to take MN 58 through Zumbrota
When did they reroute US 63 onto 75th Street NW? Does anybody have pictures of the US 14-52-63 triplex signs?
My observation from last summer is there aren't any.
The reroute officially happened in mid-2013. Sign replacement was supposed to happen last summer, though it's possible Monte rolled through too early.
Quote from: texaskdog on January 29, 2015, 08:36:26 AM
I remember crossing the old Wabasha bridge the day I crossed this (1983?). The Wabasha bridge must be long gone. http://www.dajensen-family.com/roads/mn60bridge.html
Yeah the Wabasha bridge was replaced in the late-80s. The crazy 90-degrees bends the old bridge had were in addition to its narrowness, so much so there were "TRUCKS MUST NOT MEET ON BRIDGE" signs entering it.
Quote from: bugo on February 02, 2015, 07:24:37 AM
When did they reroute US 63 onto 75th Street NW? Does anybody have pictures of the US 14-52-63 triplex signs?
Quote from: froggie on February 02, 2015, 06:03:01 PM
The reroute officially happened in mid-2013. Sign replacement was supposed to happen last summer, though it's possible Monte rolled through too early.
As of October 2014 the US 63 reassurance shields has been posted on mainline 52.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.055019,-92.494797,3a,75y,163.38h,85.15t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sYaQ3lLcGAt_oLAJPYEGUhQ!2e0
And here's a triplex shield posted at the 2nd St SW interchange.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.022243,-92.488178,3a,75y,178.37h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sBG-XloEoz55yf9KGyUbhww!2e0
The WHY has more to do with the city of Rochester than with MnDOT wanting to "shave some miles". There are design changes that the city wants to do to Broadway in/near downtown that would have been near-impossible with MnDOT retaining jurisdiction, thanks to design standards being codified into state law instead of being flexible.
and yet the city itself has no regard for 63 whatsoever on its local streets...
What do you mean?
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 02, 2015, 10:48:06 AM
My observation from last summer is there aren't any.
Pretty sure we saw U.S. 63 posted on U.S. 52 NB in mid-June when we drove through there.
Does the "ramp" connecting MN 23 and US 14 in Lyon County have an 800-series number, and if so what is it?
No. 800-series numbers are for roadway centerlines. MnDOT considers that an actual ramp.
Oh, MnDOT...you had one job...
signage fail (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Pequot+Lakes,+MN&hl=en&ll=46.513176,-94.287007&spn=0.00917,0.022702&sll=43.871754,-72.451472&sspn=2.451198,5.811768&hnear=Pequot+Lakes,+Crow+Wing+County,+Minnesota&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=46.513249,-94.286963&panoid=CgVy2gMgoY3HhzdNurFufw&cbp=12,52.49,,0,8.51)
Quote from: froggie on February 26, 2015, 03:14:37 PM
Oh, MnDOT...you had one job...
signage fail (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Pequot+Lakes,+MN&hl=en&ll=46.513176,-94.287007&spn=0.00917,0.022702&sll=43.871754,-72.451472&sspn=2.451198,5.811768&hnear=Pequot+Lakes,+Crow+Wing+County,+Minnesota&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=46.513249,-94.286963&panoid=CgVy2gMgoY3HhzdNurFufw&cbp=12,52.49,,0,8.51)
And fixed within the month, based on the view from the other direction.
After they finished the MN 101/141st Ave interchange in Rogers they placed a "Speed Limit 45 Ahead" yellow diamond sign on the southbound side even though the speed limit is 40 around the I-94 interchange. The warning sign still says 45 and the speed limit is still 40 in that area and this error has remained for several months.
MNDot cranking up the speed limits on significant portions of MN 23, MN 55, and US 212 among others. Chart also lists future speed studies for other routes for the next few years.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/govrel/reports/2015/2015-Evaluation-of-Certain-Speed-Limits-report.pdf
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 26, 2015, 05:08:49 PM
After they finished the MN 101/141st Ave interchange in Rogers they placed a "Speed Limit 45 Ahead" yellow diamond sign on the southbound side even though the speed limit is 40 around the I-94 interchange. The warning sign still says 45 and the speed limit is still 40 in that area and this error has remained for several months.
I plan to go take a few photos of this new interchange soon. The work on the 610 extension is supposed to start significant construction this summer as well
Quote from: I94RoadRunner on March 25, 2015, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 26, 2015, 05:08:49 PM
After they finished the MN 101/141st Ave interchange in Rogers they placed a "Speed Limit 45 Ahead" yellow diamond sign on the southbound side even though the speed limit is 40 around the I-94 interchange. The warning sign still says 45 and the speed limit is still 40 in that area and this error has remained for several months.
I plan to go take a few photos of this new interchange soon. The work on the 610 extension is supposed to start significant construction this summer as well
which started 30 years ago
MNDot working on rebuilding MN 101 between old US 212 and the Minnesota River Bridge. When this is done will Carver County finally accept this section for turnback? I think it's one of three separate sections of MN 101 in Carver County that the county has not accepted yet.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy101river/index.html
Looking at GSV it appears more of the section south of US 212 has been turned back; the state section picks up again at Pioneer Trail.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 27, 2015, 07:26:19 PM
MNDot working on rebuilding MN 101 between old US 212 and the Minnesota River Bridge. When this is done will Carver County finally accept this section for turnback? I think it's one of three separate sections of MN 101 in Carver County that the county has not accepted yet.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy101river/index.html
Looking at GSV it appears more of the section south of US 212 has been turned back; the state section picks up again at Pioneer Trail.
Yep, Carver County appears to want the entire thing four-laned before they'll take it. The section between Pioneer Trail and old 212 would probably require some straightening to bring it to the standard they want, but the rich NIMBYs in the area will likely put an end to that. On another subject, 101 north of MN 5 is absolutely dreadful, and the county is right to wait for improvements to be made. But that area will be much worse in terms of NIMBYism, so there probably won't be anything done for a long time there. That's a shame, because it effectively dumps both 101 and Crosstown traffic onto a two-lane road with no shoulders. :no:
yet the part north is not being designed to connect up. whats wrong with a 4-way traffic light?
Topography of the river bluff prevents a direct at-grade connection. An interchange (with 101 bridging over old 212) was considered, but would've been a lot more expensive and eaten up more river valley wetlands to the south.
St. Louis County to pump $119M into its county highway system over the next two years. Sales tax increases and a fee tacked onto car sales will fund the improvements.
https://www.stlouiscountymn.gov/GOVERNMENT/DepartmentsAgencies/PublicWorks.aspx
MnDOT released its 2015 construction project list today (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction/) (also viewable here (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/roadwork/current.html)).
Projects of note (there are plenty of them):
- Reconstructing US 2 between Cass Lake and Deer River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/hwy2passinglanes/index.html), to include 3 sets of passing lanes, and turn lanes at several locations.
- Reconstruction at the US 2/MN 89 junction west of Bemidji, which apparently includes a bridge. I've heard rumors that this is to be an interchange...I have an E-mail into MnDOT asking for confirmation.
- Redecking of the Fort Rd Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy5/) on MN 5 over the Mississippi River. This will be a 2-year project with single-lane traffic on MN 5 during both summers, so plan on delays.
- A new interchange on US 10 at Anoka CSAH 83 (http://www.highway10andarmstrong.com/) in Ramsey. Here is the proposed layout (http://www.highway10andarmstrong.com/pdf/141020_Layout.pdf). Expected to be completed Fall 2016.
- Pavement reconstruction on US 10 from St. Cloud to Benton CSAH 33 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/stc/index.html). Continuation from last year when the eastbound side was done. This will result in 2-lane/2-way traffic on the eastbound side for most of the summer. The goal is to have all lanes open during Memorial and 4th-of-July weekends, but this will be a traffic mess all other weekends.
- Similar to above, another resurfacing project will resurface US 10 south of St. Cloud to Clear Lake, with 2-lane/2-way traffic on the westbound side.
- Auxiliary lane construction on eastbound US 12 in Wayzata (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy12wayzata/) from CSAH 15/101 to the off-ramp to Gleason Rd and I-494.
- Continuation of the 4-lane project on US 14 east of Owatonna (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy14-218-to-cr-180/index.html). I am still not sure if this includes the interchange at CR 43 or not.
- Roundabout construction at US 14/MN 42 near Eyota (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy14-42-roundabout/index.html).
- As part of the multiyear flood mitigation project near St. Peter (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/floodmitigation/), this year's portion will reconstruct MN 22 near the Minnesota River.
- A new overpass over MN 23 at Kandiyohi CSAH 5 near Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23kandi5/index.html). This will NOT be a new interchange, but instead will bridge CSAH 5 over MN 23 using the existing embankments (part of the original interchange proposal from the original Willmar bypass construction years ago) and utilize the existing intersection to make the turning connections between MN 23 and CSAH 5.
- Replace the MN 24 Mississippi River Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/hwy24/) at Clearwater. This will be a 2-year project.
- A 2-year project to reconstruct much of MN 25 in Buffalo (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/buffalo/). This year's work will add 2 roundabouts at 8th St NW and at CR 147, and construct a direct connection from the CR 147 roundabout to the MN 55/CSAH 34 intersection. 2016 work will reconstruct the MN 25/MN 55 intersection and widen MN 25 to 4 lanes for about 3/4mi north of MN 55.
- Another MN 25 project, (in Monticello (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/monti/index.html)) will reconstruct MN 25 for a couple miles south of I-94 and extend the 4-lane down to 85th St NE/CR 106.
- A 2-year project, reconstruction of the I-94/MN 29 interchange (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/alexi94hwy29/) in Alexandria. There are 4 main components of the reconstruction: moving the westbound ramps closer to the overpass, to increase the spacing with the intersection at 50th Ave; widening MN 29 to 4 lanes south to CSAH 28; realigning CSAH 28 to meet MN 29 at CR 87, and constructing the MN 29/CSAH 28/CR 87 intersection as a roundabout. Here's the proposed layout (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/alexi94hwy29/pdfs/jan14layout.pdf).
- A continuation of a project from last year, a project on MN 34 is adding 4 sets of passing lanes on each side between Detroit Lakes and Akeley (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/hwy34/).
- Another continuation from last year, a project on I-35 in Owatonna (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/i35bridge-pavement-replacement/index.html) is reconstructing the Interstate through the town, replacing 4 bridges, and adding auxiliary lanes on both sides between Exit 41/Bridge St and Exit 42 (Old Hwy 14).
- The multiyear reconstruction of I-35E north of downtown St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/35estpaul/) continues. This project is reconstructing I-35E from downtown to Little Canada, widening the road with a MnPASS (HO/T) lane in each direction, replacing the Cayuga Bridge, and moving the Pennsylvania Ave interchange to Cayuga St.
- Completion of a sequence of projects along northbound I-35W north of downtown Minneapolis (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wandfourthst/index.html). These projects are adding a new northbound on-ramp from 4th St, adding a northbound auxiliary lane from the University Ave exit to Johnson St, and consolidating the Johnson St and Stinson Blvd/New Brighton Blvd exits into a single exit. I have heard that the new on-ramp from 4th St is now open. Here is the layout (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wandfourthst/pdf/projectlayout.pdf).
- The proposed DDI at I-35W/Ramsey CSAH 96 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/cr96overi35wardenhills/index.html) in Arden Hills will be built.
- Construction on the new Stillwater Bridge (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5160.0) project continues.
- Construction on the new MN 43 Mississippi River bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/winonabridge/index.html) at Winona continues.
- MN 51/Snelling Ave in St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/snellingfalconheights/), between Selby Ave and Pierce Butler Rte, will have its pavement rebuilt. This project includes what is effectively a redecking of the bridge over I-94, which will require the bridge to be closed from May to August.
- The US 52 Lafayette Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/lafayettebridge/) project should wrap up this Fall.
- A short project which will build a 3rd westbound lane on MN 55 between I-494 and Plymouth Blvd (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy55plymouth/index.html).
- The US 61/MN 97 junctions (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy61and97/) near Forest Lake will be reconstructed and replaced with roundabouts.
- Construction on the new I-90 Dresbach Bridge over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/dresbachbridge/index.html) continues.
- A project in downtown Minneapolis that will continue into next year, the existing I-94 exit to 5th St will be replaced with a new exit to 7th St (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94minneapolis/index.html). This is being done as construction of the Hiawatha LRT a decade ago reduced 5th St through most of downtown, and construction of the new Vikings Stadium has severed the street at 11th Ave. Here is the layout (http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/groups/public/@publicworks/documents/images/wcms1p-136683.pdf).
- Widening of I-94 between Rogers and St. Michael (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/i94/index.html) continues.
- A new roundabout will be built at MN 96/Washington CSAH 15 near Stillwater.
- Reconstruction of MN 100 through St. Louis Park (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy100slp/) continues. This project will reconstruct MN 100 to full width with 6 through lanes plus auxiliary lanes, reconstruct the Minnetonka Blvd interchange as a standard diamond (including a direct SB off-ramp instead of the existing indirect ramp to Vernon Ave), and reconstruct the MN 7 interchange as a 5-ramp par-clo. This is the layout (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy100slp/pdf/concepts.pdf).
- MN 210 will be reconstructed (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy210future/index.html) through Jay Cooke State Park, in part to replace a section that washed out in severe flooding 3 years ago.
- Reconstruction and widening of I-494 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494plymouth/) between I-394 and I-94/694 continues. The widenings involved with this project include a northbound auxiliary lane between I-394 and Carlson Pkwy, auxiliary lanes on both sides between CSAH 6 and MN 55, a 3rd through lane in each direction between MN 55 and I-94/694, and a southbound auxiliary lane from I-94/694 to CSAH 10/Bass Lake Rd.
- Construction of MN 610 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/610west/index.html) between I-94 and CSAH 81 continues. The project includes a full interchange at Maple Grove Pkwy, a partial interchange at I-94 just north of the 101st Ave overpass (WB 610 to WB 94 and EB 94 to EB 610 only), and replaces old 101st Ave with a new 105th Ave from west of I-94 to Maple Grove Pkwy. A project layout is here (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/610west/pdf/610layout.pdf).
Got an E-mail back about the US 2/MN 89 project. It will effectively create a partial interchange. Southbound MN 89 will bridge over US 2 then loop around to eastbound 2 (there will be a normal ramp from SB 89 to WB 2). There will still be a left turn from EB 2 to NB 89. And access from Countryside Restaurant and "Pete's Place" to US 2 will also remain.
"Minnesota's Great Umlaut War is Over"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/04/15/minnesotas-great-umlaut-war-is-over-also-minnesota-was-having-an-umlaut-war/
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 21, 2015, 11:18:57 PM
"Minnesota's Great Umlaut War is Over"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/04/15/minnesotas-great-umlaut-war-is-over-also-minnesota-was-having-an-umlaut-war/
Well, we *thought* it was over until someone pointed out that these are not umlauts but rather a letter of the Swedish alphabet...which took this battle into another phase. :D
I'm half expecting a Lake Wobegon sketch to go in this direction now. Lake Wobegøn, honoring its Swedish heritage since Lindström got its umlaut back.
Due to opposition from St. Louis Park residents (the city itself had given its approval) MNDot has decided not to close the ramp from MN 100 South to Westside Drive, which is at the north end of the major project zone in St. Louis Park and as a result drivers had been flooding onto local streets from the Westside exit to avoid the backups on 100. It will probably get worse on the local streets as the project enters the next phase where capacity on MN 100 will be reduced to two lanes in each direction.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 22, 2015, 07:32:59 PM
Due to opposition from St. Louis Park residents (the city itself had given its approval) MNDot has decided not to close the ramp from MN 100 South to Westside Drive, which is at the north end of the major project zone in St. Louis Park and as a result drivers had been flooding onto local streets from the Westside exit to avoid the backups on 100. It will probably get worse on the local streets as the project enters the next phase where capacity on MN 100 will be reduced to two lanes in each direction.
We will see how long the opposition to that closure lasts, I bet they come back and ask MnDOT to close it as there will be significant diversion off 100 in the next phase.
MN 5 likely to be turned back to Washington County between MN 120 and MN 36 (its present east terminus) this summer.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_28194176/mndot-handing-over-stretch-minnesota-5-washington-county
The article mentions something a little more curious though: MNDot is apparently trying to hand over a section of MN 60 in Worthington. What is this section and why would they hand it over?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 27, 2015, 12:47:11 AM
MN 5 likely to be turned back to Washington County between MN 120 and MN 36 (its present east terminus) this summer.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_28194176/mndot-handing-over-stretch-minnesota-5-washington-county
The article mentions something a little more curious though: MNDot is apparently trying to hand over a section of MN 60 in Worthington. What is this section and why would they hand it over?
They might have forgot about the little part of old highway 60 that was left after construction. "MN 960A?"
There's a roughly 1-mi section south of downtown Worthington, near the lake, that was bypassed. Presumably, it's that section that MnDOT's trying to turn back (which doesn't show up in Logpoint yet).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 27, 2015, 12:47:11 AM
MN 5 likely to be turned back to Washington County between MN 120 and MN 36 (its present east terminus) this summer.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_28194176/mndot-handing-over-stretch-minnesota-5-washington-county
Finally. It should be turned over east of the airport anyway, or moved to Shepard Road. Also they've been talking about 65 & 47 north of Minneapolis & MN 120 for years as well. I moved away from MN 9 years ago and they were talking about it back then.
Quote from: texaskdog on May 27, 2015, 09:05:43 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 27, 2015, 12:47:11 AM
MN 5 likely to be turned back to Washington County between MN 120 and MN 36 (its present east terminus) this summer.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_28194176/mndot-handing-over-stretch-minnesota-5-washington-county
Finally. It should be turned over east of the airport anyway, or moved to Shepard Road. Also they've been talking about 65 & 47 north of Minneapolis & MN 120 for years as well. I moved away from MN 9 years ago and they were talking about it back then.
Shepard Road's pavement is in poor condition as it is. I don't think there's any reason to bring it in to the state highway system, where MN/DOT would likely neglect it further. It would be better IMHO to truncate MN 5 to U.S. 212 in Eden Prairie (unless Carver County would be willing to take it through Chanhassen) and the airport spur could become MN 594. :)
Shepard Rd is a Principal Arterial, and both MnDOT and St. Paul are studying ways to more directly connect the Fort Rd Bridge (MN 5 over the Mississippi) to Shepard Rd. A more likely scenario is that MN 5 gets rerouted onto Shepard Rd and Warner Rd to end at 61/10. St. Paul and/or Ramsey County would then take over 7th St and Minnehaha Ave.
Quote from: froggie on May 27, 2015, 10:11:06 AM
Shepard Rd is a Principal Arterial, and both MnDOT and St. Paul are studying ways to more directly connect the Fort Rd Bridge (MN 5 over the Mississippi) to Shepard Rd. A more likely scenario is that MN 5 gets rerouted onto Shepard Rd and Warner Rd to end at 61/10. St. Paul and/or Ramsey County would then take over 7th St and Minnehaha Ave.
My point still stands that Ramsey County has neglected it. Weather or not MN/DOT will too, I don't know.
Speaking of that study, 9 alternatives for connecting MN 5 to Shepard Rd have been created and considered. The project website (http://www.stpaul.gov/index.aspx?NID=5588) has individual PDF files for each alternatives as well as a single PDF showing all 9 (http://www.stpaul.gov/DocumentCenter/View/78975).
5 of the 9 alternatives have been dropped. Unfortunately, 3 of those dropped alternatives represented the simplest, most direct connections between MN 5 and Shepard Rd. 2 of those were along Norfolk Ave so local opposition played a factor. The third was south of Norfolk Ave, but went right through a proposed development so I suspect that was why it was dropped.
One of the retained alternatives would have eastbound and westbound traffic cross over each other, with one of those crossings possibly being at-grade. Another retained alternative would effectively have traffic do a 270-degree loop, using the existing loop space in the northwest quadrant of the interchange. Unless they widened the loop radii, the loops as drawn would have very low speeds...likely 20 MPH and possibly even 15 MPH. Not very safe given the situation.
I'm surprised Alternative 7 got killed.
Dang, the first three are the simplest (and the best) ones IMO. Are the condo residents just being NIMBYs about having the ROW right in front of them? Those three (and maybe 4 as well) are the only ones that should be considered, the rest are convoluted. Alternative 9 is the most confusing to me.
Quote from: BickendanI'm surprised Alternative 7 got killed.
I'm not. It's the only one that directly impacts Hidden Falls Park. Also challenging bridge construction that's close to 100ft up from the valley floor, high-tension power line impacts, and goes directly over a memorial (that small area on the intersection corner).
Quote from: MolandfreakDang, the first three are the simplest (and the best) ones IMO. Are the condo residents just being NIMBYs about having the ROW right in front of them?
That's part of it, though given that the revised roadway would have almost 40K daily traffic next to the sidewalk, I can understand their concern. Meanwhile, that alignment would completely take out several bungalows and a housing development on the south side of Norfolk Ave.
I came up with a conceptual proposal (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/17279049811/in/dateposted-public/) about 6 weeks ago that's similar to Alternate 2. I addressed the condo resident concerns by burying the roadway under and just south of Norfolk Ave. This would give the option of air rights development on one of the two blocks, and a park-like lid on the other block.
Of the remaining official alternatives, I'd lean towards Alt 4, though I think the Edgcumbe/West 7th ramps could be cleaned up further, and I still think West 7th could be closed between Edgcumbe and Davern.
Quote from: froggie on June 01, 2015, 05:41:07 PM
Of the remaining official alternatives, I'd lean towards Alt 4, though I think the Edgcumbe/West 7th ramps could be cleaned up further, and I still think West 7th could be closed between Edgcumbe and Davern.
Agreed. It's the only reasonable one that has high speed access on Shepard Road from both directions.
I won't bicker about any of them other than number 9, however.
iPhone
This is Minnesota. They never do the simplest thing that makes sense
I really hope it's not number 9... all those low-speed ramps...
iPhone
Quote from: Molandfreak on June 01, 2015, 08:27:56 PM
I really hope it's not number 9
all those low-speed ramps
iPhone
Why do you ever expect them to make sense? #1 was a true thing of beauty.
I've been in regular email contact with one of the project team members (a St. Paul city planner). She said the first few alternatives were dropped "not only because of the opposition, but because of access issues, concerns about the intersection with Davern, bridges that would need to be constructed, and the way that the road would create an additional barrier in the middle of a residential community."
I'm not sold on the access issues, but I understand the barrier concern. The "bridges" concern is mitigatable via better design, but the intersection at Davern would be problematic...that's a very valid concern, though I still think it'd be doable with Alt #3.
I sent her my concerns with Alts 5, 6, and (especially) 9. The response was that most of my concerns will be looked at in the next phase of the study, which will go into more technical detail of the remaining alternatives.
My folks are NIMBYing it up on this MN-5/Shepard Road thing, and I have to agree the entire premise of this project is completely flawed.
The existing interchange is not congested at all. The idea seems to be "If we build it, they'll come", without any consideration that Shepard Road simply doesn't serve many people's desired destination. MnDOT has not produced any sort of origin-destination study which shows this will reduce traffic on Fort Road/W Seventh, or if they have, they haven't shown it to the public. Although, a significant portion of traffic gets onto I-35E, so if they wanted to make a real improvement, they'd follow Froggie's suggestion of making I-35E/Shepard a full interchange. (Or better yet, turn MN-110 into a freeway.)
My guess the entire idea is based on Saint Paul's farts and wishful thinking that people will accidentally take a highway ramp and end up downtown to spend money.
Edit: And thank you for posting the alternatives! -- I hadn't seen the actual plans, only some NIMBY photocopies.
What is funny is that they oppose Ayd Mill road being connected and want traffic on the city streets, yet they are okay with Shephard road getting people off of West 7th.
Quote from: texaskdog on June 03, 2015, 10:19:23 AM
What is funny is that they oppose Ayd Mill road being connected and want traffic on the city streets, yet they are okay with Shephard road getting people off of West 7th.
Welcome to America - home of the double standard :awesomeface:
Different neighborhoods, so not exactly the same people.
And it should be noted that not everyone further up opposed opening Ayd Mill Rd to 35E. Several residents, especially those along Lexington, supported the move.
Really froggie? Shepard Road (which ALL of it would have more traffic) is only about a mile from the end of Ayd Mill as the crow flies.
The Ayd Mill Road situation is simply not comparable. Had it been completed, it would have functioned as a regional bypass largely for suburban commuters (similar to MN-280). Shepard Road is only useful for destinations in Saint Paul.
Also, this Shepard Road thing seems to be something that City Hall wants, not something the neighbors are clamoring for.
Effective tomorrow MNDot is increasing the speed limit from 65 to 70 on I-94 between 494/694 in Woodbury and the WI border. Wasn't sure if they would since Hudson is still a 65 zone and one of the reasons that stretch never went to 70 before, but they are.
Good. Any time a speed limit is raised it is a good thing. The recent trend has been toward higher speed limits. With the eastern part of the midwest going to 70, does that mean that a little further west and south will be going to 75 or even 80?
Quote from: flowmotion on June 03, 2015, 04:27:06 PM
The Ayd Mill Road situation is simply not comparable. Had it been completed, it would have functioned as a regional bypass largely for suburban commuters (similar to MN-280). Shepard Road is only useful for destinations in Saint Paul.
Also, this Shepard Road thing seems to be something that City Hall wants, not something the neighbors are clamoring for.
So it's better to have traffic on Lexington than Ayd Mill? :P
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 15, 2015, 02:57:46 PM
Effective tomorrow MNDot is increasing the speed limit from 65 to 70 on I-94 between 494/694 in Woodbury and the WI border. Wasn't sure if they would since Hudson is still a 65 zone and one of the reasons that stretch never went to 70 before, but they are.
Well Done MnDOT!!! :clap:
Despite what people say, MnDOT continues in many ways to be one of the more progressive state DOTs.
Now WisDOT needs to realize they are being stupid leaving 3 miles through Hudson at 65. Very few drivers are going to drop their speeds for that short stretch. Enforcement in that area will be difficult due to traffic volumes and a lack of median crossovers. They need to do a speed study and up that speed to 70 versus leaving a more dangerous speed trap.
Quote from: Roadguy on June 16, 2015, 07:53:51 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 15, 2015, 02:57:46 PM
Effective tomorrow MNDot is increasing the speed limit from 65 to 70 on I-94 between 494/694 in Woodbury and the WI border. Wasn't sure if they would since Hudson is still a 65 zone and one of the reasons that stretch never went to 70 before, but they are.
Well Done MnDOT!!! :clap:
Despite what people say, MnDOT continues in many ways to be one of the more progressive state DOTs.
Now WisDOT needs to realize they are being stupid leaving 3 miles through Hudson at 65. Very few drivers are going to drop their speeds for that short stretch. Enforcement in that area will be difficult due to traffic volumes and a lack of median crossovers. They need to do a speed study and up that speed to 70 versus leaving a more dangerous speed trap.
Also the the hills as the highway transits the Saint Croix River valley, especially on the Wisconsin side.
Mike
Given the mostly urban nature (especially around Carmichael Rd), the bluff climb, and the close interchange spacing, I see no problem with keeping 94 at 65 MPH from west of MN 95 North to the US 12 interchange. I'm actually somewhat surprised that MnDOT bumped that segment to 70, though it does have wider interchange spacing than most of the Metro or in Hudson and is (relatively) newer vintage (completed ca. 1985).
I was curious so I went up to investigate just now. I drove westbound on I-94 from Hwy 65 in Wisconsin (exit 10) into Minnesota as far as Manning Avenue, then went back home heading eastbound, going through Hudson both ways.
The speed limit signs in Wisconsin are all now at 70 mph, those in Hudson included, in both directions. The signs in the Minnesota section that I drove were still at 65.
The Wisconsin signs are all brand new too. They didn't just slap a 70 on top of the 65.
I got things mixed up. MNDot isn't increasing the limit until tomorrow (Wednesday).
Quote from: texaskdog on June 15, 2015, 04:04:23 PM
So it's better to have traffic on Lexington than Ayd Mill? :P
I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind does this. If you want to go the 'wrong way' between I-94 and I-35E, Kellogg Blvd is probably the best exit, despite the longer distance.
(Or Snelling-Shelby-Ayd Mill, but you have to ignore the misleading signs put up by the devious Saint Paulites.)
The great LED conversion has begun. Three contracts have been let to convert all the conventional sodium fixtures under Mn/DOT jurisdiction to LED. Work has started in the Northeast metro (which was due for relamping so they let that one first before deciding to do all of them), with I-694 already converted and work happening on MN 36 and I-94.
Final EIS released for the US 53 relocation in Virginia. Public comment period through July 6; the E-2 was the option selected, which will reroute US 53 well to the north over a man-made lake and require relocating MN 135 slightly as well.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy53relocation/
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 27, 2015, 12:47:11 AM
MN 5 likely to be turned back to Washington County between MN 120 and MN 36 (its present east terminus) this summer.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_28194176/mndot-handing-over-stretch-minnesota-5-washington-county
The article mentions something a little more curious though: MNDot is apparently trying to hand over a section of MN 60 in Worthington. What is this section and why would they hand it over?
Turning MN-5 back requires a little creative routing for the now-bypassed Constitutional Route 45. This begins where MN-5 crosses the east city limits of St. Paul, and for now it could be routed up MN-120 and east on MN-36. This might work with the existing description of Legislative Route 118 (36), which "begins at a point on Route 45 southwest of Stillwater."
It could also go south and follow I-94 and MN-95 to Stillwater. Either route touches Lake Elmo, one of the locations in the route description. (I'm surprised Lake Elmo was noteworthy in 1920 when this amendment was passed).
In the future, though, if the state turns back MN-120, it would probably have to turn back MN-5 in Ramsey County west of 120 as well, at least as far as the St. Paul city limits, or change the description of the corresponding Legislative Route 109 for MN-5 in St. Paul. I wouldn't be surprised to see MN-5 eliminated east of downtown St. Paul anyway, since it's just on city streets.
Some notes from a short trip out "west" to attend a wedding:
- On US 52, the new interchanges in and south of Cannon Falls have exit numbers, and an exit number was "retrofitted" to the MN 19 interchange as well. Of note, MnDOT went cheap on the exit gore signing in a very 1990s-Alabama-esque way, posting the exit number above a standard exit gore sign. None of the other interchanges north of Oronoco have exit numbers (for now).
- The I-94 widening between Rogers and the St. Michael exit (MN 101 to MN 241) has all traffic in a 2-way/4-lane config on the eastbound lanes. Oddly, MnDOT retained a 60 MPH speed limit through this stretch...given the narrowness, I'd have expected them to go 55, similar to what they normally do with Outstate (non-Metro) reconstruction projects that close one side at a time.
- As has been mentioned previously, MnDOT has upped the speed limit on a number of rural 2-lane highways to 60 MPH. I was looking to see if there was a pattern yet as far as improvements done before they upped the limit, and most of them do appear to have paved shoulders and both centerline and side rumble strips, but there was one notable 60 MPH route that lacked both (MN 79).
- Related to the 60 MPH limits, there were at least 3 towns I passed through (on US 71 and US 59) where the speed limit drops directly from 60 to 30.
- Near Owatonna, US 14 and US 218 are signed concurrently west of their interchange, but there's an "END US 218" sign at the CSAH 45 interchange, instead of at I-35.
- Old US 14 between Owatonna and Janesville is now Steele CSAH 2 and Waseca CSAH 14. It's in the process of being rebuilt in both jurisdictions (presumably as part of the turnback agreements).
- On MN 23 near Paynesville, the half-interchange at the northeast end of the bypass is signed as County 85, and with "BUSINESS 23" in all-caps text.
- Nicollet County has recently rebuilt at least two of their county state aid routes (23 and 25) with concrete.
(EDIT): Also, one more thing of note. When MnDOT recently widened the MN 55/149 concurrency to 6 lanes and rebuilt 149 between 55 and I-494, they upgraded all the traffic signals to galvanized steel poles and flashing yellow arrows. But the big thing here is there are FYAs for dual-left-turn-lane movements, and they actually are using the flashing yellow for some of these movements. I've also noticed this (a FYA dual-left-turn-lane) at MN 55/Plymouth Blvd. This marks a noted change in MnDOT signal policy....in the past, dual left turn lanes were automatically protected-only.
Quote from: froggieOf note, MnDOT went cheap on the exit gore signing in a very 1990s-Alabama-esque way, posting the exit number above a standard exit gore sign.
Huh, I figured that was a WSDOT thing.
Quote from: froggie on July 02, 2015, 10:55:38 AM
(EDIT): Also, one more thing of note. When MnDOT recently widened the MN 55/149 concurrency to 6 lanes and rebuilt 149 between 55 and I-494, they upgraded all the traffic signals to galvanized steel poles and flashing yellow arrows. But the big thing here is there are FYAs for dual-left-turn-lane movements, and they actually are using the flashing yellow for some of these movements. I've also noticed this (a FYA dual-left-turn-lane) at MN 55/Plymouth Blvd. This marks a noted change in MnDOT signal policy....in the past, dual left turn lanes were automatically protected-only.
As a person who uses the 55/Plymouth Blvd/Niagara Lane intersection daily, the FYA on the dual left turns works really well for the side road (Glad they did this as my car had big troubles at idle before I replaced it). Mn/DOT never activates the FYA for the mainline Left turns on 55 (even at 2-3AM in the morning they keep the protected green arrow but have shorter wait times). But the FYA's on Plymouth Blvd/Niagara Lane are used 24/7 (there is still a green arrow but once that green arrow turns off they revert to the FYA during the green ball phase).
Woodbury also has started to convert many of the single and dual lefts to FYA on city and county roads (Last I hear was 70% were converted to include FYAs).
Quote from: froggie
- The I-94 widening between Rogers and the St. Michael exit (MN 101 to MN 241) has all traffic in a 2-way/4-lane config on the eastbound lanes. Oddly, MnDOT retained a 60 MPH speed limit through this stretch...given the narrowness, I'd have expected them to go 55, similar to what they normally do with Outstate (non-Metro) reconstruction projects that close one side at a time.
Rogers and St. Michael are metro cities now.
iPhone
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 05, 2015, 10:53:51 PM
Quote from: froggie
- The I-94 widening between Rogers and the St. Michael exit (MN 101 to MN 241) has all traffic in a 2-way/4-lane config on the eastbound lanes. Oddly, MnDOT retained a 60 MPH speed limit through this stretch...given the narrowness, I'd have expected them to go 55, similar to what they normally do with Outstate (non-Metro) reconstruction projects that close one side at a time.
Rogers and St. Michael are metro cities now.
I don't even want to envision how absolutely beyond imagination awful cabin traffic would be if they didn't keep it four lanes through there.
Quote from: MolandfreakRogers and St. Michael are metro cities now.
Which, if nothing else, is why I would've expected them to go with a 55 zone, as they've typically done with Metro-area reconstruction as well, and is the case with I-494.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394I don't even want to envision how absolutely beyond imagination awful cabin traffic would be if they didn't keep it four lanes through there.
Probably similar to what rush hours are like along 494 right now. But it's not like there aren't alternatives to 94 for cabin traffic. Drivers are just too fixated on the Interstate system.
On that note, I was impressed with the level of non-peak-flow that 94 has now, even before I got back to Monticello...
Quote from: Molandfreak on March 30, 2015, 02:31:29 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 27, 2015, 07:26:19 PM
MNDot working on rebuilding MN 101 between old US 212 and the Minnesota River Bridge. When this is done will Carver County finally accept this section for turnback? I think it's one of three separate sections of MN 101 in Carver County that the county has not accepted yet.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy101river/index.html
Looking at GSV it appears more of the section south of US 212 has been turned back; the state section picks up again at Pioneer Trail.
Yep, Carver County appears to want the entire thing four-laned before they'll take it. The section between Pioneer Trail and old 212 would probably require some straightening to bring it to the standard they want, but the rich NIMBYs in the area will likely put an end to that. On another subject, 101 north of MN 5 is absolutely dreadful, and the county is right to wait for improvements to be made. But that area will be much worse in terms of NIMBYism, so there probably won't be anything done for a long time there. That's a shame, because it effectively dumps both 101 and Crosstown traffic onto a two-lane road with no shoulders. :no:
Obviously each situation/county is different but the way MNDot is handling the MN 5 turnback is that they're basically just giving Washington County a bunch of cash for future maintenance on that stretch of 5 to use how they see fit. I wonder if Carver would accept a similar deal with MN 101 where MNDot doesn't do all the work Carver wants done before they take over 101, but the state gives them cash to do their own desired work with.
Speaking of MN 5 in Washington county, I wonder why MNDOT does not just truncate MN 5 to the I-494/US 212 interchange or even US 212 at the Y in Eden Prairie .....? The airport freeway from I-494 across to the Crosstown could become an extended MN 110 or some new number .....
Quote from: I94RoadRunner on July 11, 2015, 05:46:53 PM
Speaking of MN 5 in Washington county, I wonder why MNDOT does not just truncate MN 5 to the I-494/US 212 interchange or even US 212 at the Y in Eden Prairie .....? The airport freeway from I-494 across to the Crosstown could become an extended MN 110 or some new number .....
Exactly, plus it removes a concurrency no one is following from end to end. I was thinking of just renumbering that section MN 594 since it is effectively an airport spur of I-494. Shepard/Warner Road can also be MN 594 and go up U.S. 61/10 to I-94.
Sure, not a bad idea. I guess nothing wrong with I-594 between the airport and I-494 either .....? I figure if you want to give it an X94 number, might as well be an interstate!
Given past precedent, it's highly doubtful that MnDOT would consider an Interstate. The airport is so well signed from 494 (not to mention that the Humphrey Terminal is accessed from 494 anyway) that there isn't really a point to it.
I'd disagree with Moland's assertion that nobody is following the 494/5 concurrency from end-to-end. Those going between Carver County (and points west) and the Airport are likely following it. That said, whether that's a rationale to keep MN 5 is another matter entirely. I could see truncating 5 back to Eden Prairie (whether 494 or the 212 split) and giving existing 5 between 494 and 35E another number...since 594 has been suggested for the eventual I-94/US 10 Connector near Clearwater, I'd go with 205 (never used, shows it's a derivative of 5).
The new Minnesota state highway map has been released. On the map MN 101 is shown as being entirely turned back south of US 212, including the winding portion between Pioneer Trail and Flying Cloud Drive. The only section in Carver County still shown to be state-maintained is the portion from MN 5 north to the Hennepin/Carver line.
Does nobody on this forum understand exaggeration to support a point? Obviously
someone is taking 5 all the way, but not very many per day. You could make an argument that the affluent area 5 goes through to the west has a lot of airline pilots, but even so they are pretty much two separate highways with different functions. 5 loses a lot of significance beyond the 212 interchange as it's basically just an urban alternate. This is why I'd at least like to see all signs for 5 removed along 494.
Quote from: froggie on July 12, 2015, 11:51:09 AM
since 594 has been suggested for the eventual I-94/US 10 Connector near Clearwater, I'd go with 205 (never used, shows it's a derivative of 5).
When was this discussed other than in road enthusiast talk? I really think 5 should get 594 if it's split up. Puts more emphasis on the idea that it's an airport spur off of 494. MSR 200 can easily be extended over 194 so that 194 can be used in Clearwater.
Quote from: MolandfreakQuote from: froggiesince 594 has been suggested for the eventual I-94/US 10 Connector near Clearwater, I'd go with 205 (never used, shows it's a derivative of 5).
When was this discussed other than in road enthusiast talk?
I know the project manager personally and have talked with her at length about the project. 594 was suggested back when the connector was being studied a decade or so ago. Since it's so far out on the funding horizon, nobody bit.
The MN 210 rebuild through Jay Cooke State Park is finally getting going. The road has been closed since June 2012 following massive floods; the relatively insignificant nature of the route obviously contributed to the waiting period. MNDot seriously considered not reconstructing the road at all, in which case I suspect MN 210 would have been rerouted over MN 45 north from Carlton to reconnect to I-35 at Scanlon.
http://www.fox21online.com/news/local-news/highway-210-jay-cooke-state-park-flood-repair-project-underway/34286464
QuoteMNDot seriously considered not reconstructing the road at all, in which case I suspect MN 210 would have been rerouted over MN 45 north from Carlton to reconnect to I-35 at Scanlon.
Given precedent (120/244 and various hanging ends of other routes), it's possible that they would have left 45 intact and truncated MN 210 to either Carlton or (more likely) the main entrance to Jay Cooke State Park.
Really liking the look of the new curve MnDOT is putting in on I-90 at La Crescent as part of the Dresbach Bridge project. Should be able to keep the cruise on around that once it's done. Interesting to see the new interchange with US 14/61 is going to be free-flow.
MnDOT is tempting me to come up with a fictional freeway spur into downtown La Crosse via US 14/61 with this design. ;)
Quote from: Bickendan on July 02, 2015, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: froggieOf note, MnDOT went cheap on the exit gore signing in a very 1990s-Alabama-esque way, posting the exit number above a standard exit gore sign.
Huh, I figured that was a WSDOT thing.
Around here, it's more like an old-school Missouri thing. Texas seems to do it as well. And the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority has a few like that on the Tri-State Tollway (I-94 and I-294) now.
QuoteMnDOT is tempting me to come up with a fictional freeway spur into downtown La Crosse via US 14/61 with this design.
It de-facto serves as one anyway. Aside from a northbound scenic overlook, there is only one at-grade access north of Hillview Dr.
Minnesota is planning to close part of US 169 in the southwest Twin Cities metro for an entire year starting in November 2016 with the main goal being replacing the long viaduct over some swampland between Bren/Londonderry Road and the Lincoln Drive exit (this is the part of 169 that would be completely closed). In addition, the RIROs at 16th St are proposed to be removed as well as improving the acceleration/deceleration at Cedar Lake Road which is a very tight interchange as well as some general repaving of the road.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169hopkins/
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2015, 02:41:49 AM
Minnesota is planning to close part of US 169 in the southwest Twin Cities metro for an entire year starting in November 2016 with the main goal being replacing the long viaduct over some swampland between Bren/Londonderry Road and the Lincoln Drive exit (this is the part of 169 that would be completely closed). In addition, the RIROs at 16th St are proposed to be removed as well as improving the acceleration/deceleration at Cedar Lake Road which is a very tight interchange as well as some general repaving of the road.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169hopkins/
Yet people say MnDOT doesn't coordinate projects, they are waiting to start this one until after Highway 100 and 494 are finished.
That Cedar Lake entrance to northbound is bad, uphill and no acceleration lane. This will certainly help with traffic flow.
16th Street should have never been there to begin with, that thing is a death trap. Last week I saw someone trying to pull out onto the highway going southbound, not only is there no acceleration lane, the grade is so steep up the hill you can't get up to highway speeds. Most locals don't even use it because they think it's unsafe.
I think back to the days of the old County Road 18 and even though 169 is still not ideal (Too many closely spaced entrance and exit ramps and not enough lanes), it is way better than it use to be.
Quotereplacing the long viaduct over some swampland between Bren/Londonderry Road and the Lincoln Drive exit
It's not just swampland. The primary reason for the viaduct is to cross Nine Mile Creek.
QuoteIn addition, the RIROs at 16th St are proposed to be removed
I was under the impression that only the southbound RIRO was going to be removed. The project website writeup specifies southbound as opposed to both directions.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2015, 02:41:49 AM
Minnesota is planning to close part of US 169 in the southwest Twin Cities metro for an entire year starting in November 2016 with the main goal being replacing the long viaduct over some swampland between Bren/Londonderry Road and the Lincoln Drive exit (this is the part of 169 that would be completely closed). In addition, the RIROs at 16th St are proposed to be removed as well as improving the acceleration/deceleration at Cedar Lake Road which is a very tight interchange as well as some general repaving of the road.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169hopkins/
Oddly they can't temporarily route everyone around it.
Quote from: texaskdog on August 19, 2015, 10:29:58 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2015, 02:41:49 AM
Minnesota is planning to close part of US 169 in the southwest Twin Cities metro for an entire year starting in November 2016 with the main goal being replacing the long viaduct over some swampland between Bren/Londonderry Road and the Lincoln Drive exit (this is the part of 169 that would be completely closed). In addition, the RIROs at 16th St are proposed to be removed as well as improving the acceleration/deceleration at Cedar Lake Road which is a very tight interchange as well as some general repaving of the road.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169hopkins/
Oddly they can't temporarily route everyone around it.
Why do you say that? I would imagine some type of detour signange would be put in place. Even if the detour is many miles, there will be a detour.
I think he's referring to the point that MnDOT isn't going to keep part of the bridge open for 2-lane-2-way traffic while they work on the other side.
Oh, well in that case, the reason is that it would be cheaper and quicker to simply stop all traffic than to rebuild while traffic were using the other side.
DC did that a few years ago when they closed the bridge that's by Wash Nationals Stadium. They closed for a few weeks in summer and did the job quickly while diverting traffic to other crossings. Yes, it's harder on commuters than simply keeping a few lanes open, but at least they got the job done quickly.
A similar approach was rejected for work done on I-395's northern approach, north of the Capitol. To accommodate a new development, the developer wanted to close the stub I-395 north of D street in DC for a year. The city council rejected this and so now they do intermittent lane closures over the course of a few years.
Quote from: froggie on August 24, 2015, 06:02:05 AM
I think he's referring to the point that MnDOT isn't going to keep part of the bridge open for 2-lane-2-way traffic while they work on the other side.
I think the traffic volumes are too heavy for that configuration anyway. MN 100 will be done by then and I-494 will also be an easy detour option. There's no shortage of easy N-S options in the west metro.
Has anyone ever driven along state highway 61 between Duluth and Grand Portage. The most interest segment of that roadway to me is the expressway between the outskirts of Duluth and the outskirts of Two Harbors. It is the last leg of the road trip I've taken to Two Harbors when vacationing with my mother and stepfather. Also, Scenic 61, the old alignment, is a fun drive with all sorts of interesting businesses. If any of you haven't been up this way, I suggest you try it sometime.
Does anyone know if MNDOT plans on reconstructing the I-94/I-494/I-694 East interchange in Woodbury? The cloverleaf can't handle the amount of traffic that goes through that interchange and there is so much weaving between traffic coming from I-94 west onto I-494 south and I-694 south trying to exit onto I-94 east. Flyover ramps are desperately needed to smooth the traffic and reduce accidents, that probably happen there frequently.
I haven't been up as far as Grand Portage. I believe I've only been up as far as MN 1.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 25, 2015, 02:42:02 PM
Has anyone ever driven along state highway 61 between Duluth and Grand Portage. The most interest segment of that roadway to me is the expressway between the outskirts of Duluth and the outskirts of Two Harbors. It is the last leg of the road trip I've taken to Two Harbors when vacationing with my mother and stepfather. Also, Scenic 61, the old alignment, is a fun drive with all sorts of interesting businesses. If any of you haven't been up this way, I suggest you try it sometime.
I did the Lake Superior Circle Tour a few weeks ago. MN 61 is a pretty nice drive. I understand why they aren't but it seems kind of crazy that I-35 doesn't link with the 61 Expressway. I found MN-61 to be pretty scenic, but I was kind of hoping that the shoreline would be a little bit more mountainous.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 25, 2015, 02:42:02 PM
Has anyone ever driven along state highway 61 between Duluth and Grand Portage. The most interest segment of that roadway to me is the expressway between the outskirts of Duluth and the outskirts of Two Harbors. It is the last leg of the road trip I've taken to Two Harbors when vacationing with my mother and stepfather. Also, Scenic 61, the old alignment, is a fun drive with all sorts of interesting businesses. If any of you haven't been up this way, I suggest you try it sometime.
I've driven 61 a number of times, and I actually just did a photo documentary of the expressway today. Personally I think heading southbound on the expressway has some amazing views that are definitely equal to those of the scenic route. I also love Knife River and going through there.
Quote from: peterj920 on August 25, 2015, 08:43:53 PM
Does anyone know if MNDOT plans on reconstructing the I-94/I-494/I-694 East interchange in Woodbury? The cloverleaf can't handle the amount of traffic that goes through that interchange and there is so much weaving between traffic coming from I-94 west onto I-494 south and I-694 south trying to exit onto I-94 east. Flyover ramps are desperately needed to smooth the traffic and reduce accidents, that probably happen there frequently.
I agree with you. As far as I know there are no plans, and even if they did they wouldn't have the money to do it at this point.
Quote from: peterj920 on August 25, 2015, 08:43:53 PM
Does anyone know if MNDOT plans on reconstructing the I-94/I-494/I-694 East interchange in Woodbury? The cloverleaf can't handle the amount of traffic that goes through that interchange and there is so much weaving between traffic coming from I-94 west onto I-494 south and I-694 south trying to exit onto I-94 east. Flyover ramps are desperately needed to smooth the traffic and reduce accidents, that probably happen there frequently.
MnDOT is a very conservative organization in the sense that it factors in construction and future maintenance costs (When you do your own maintenance you have to be). That is why the metro area has so many cloverleaf interchanges. The high costs for bridges, snow/ice removal, and shear number of cloverleafs (32 total in the metro area) make upgrading all of them extremely costly. As an example, the cloverleaf at 610 and 169 cost around $30 million, had a full flyover configuration been built (it was considered), it would have cost over $120 million. The few times they have deviated from the cloverleaf, they have built turbine interchanges (94/394, planned 35W/494, etc). 169 and 494 was the exception to that due to frontage road configuration. Even the crosstown project left a loop ramp from 35W NB to 62 WB and that is a heavily traveled movement.
The most we will probably ever see here is collector-distributor lanes added to 694/494 (Similar to the configuration on 94 below). When the original interchange was upgraded in 1985 there was not the north-south traffic that there is today. MnDOT has a TON of needs and quite frankly once the 2008 transportation bill construction money winds down in 2018 there is hardly enough money to simply maintain the existing system (They have estimated a $6 billion+ shortfall just for the status quo).
I agree a flyover type of interchange would be the most ideal fix but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Would be nice to at least make the loops bigger, they're very tight. There are a lot freeways in the Twin Cities metro also, so I can understand why there's so many cloverleafs. But that interchange is probably top 5 in traffic. 694 is used for traffic that wants to bypass the metro and 494 serves Bloomington, the airport, and the Mall of America. Interesting how Minnesota focuses on building so many freeways but doesn't spend a lot on interchanges, where Wisconsin is the complete opposite. Wisconsin has less urban freeways, but builds extravagant interchanges (Mitchell, Marquette, and Zoo Interchanges are prime examples) It's very expensive to have both, and that's probably why the states have such a contrast.
Quote from: RoadguyEven the crosstown project left a loop ramp from 35W NB to 62 WB and that is a heavily traveled movement.
It's really not that heavily used. Combined with the lack of weaving along it plus the presence of Grass Lake just to the northwest is why that loop ramp was retained. BTW, that loop ramp was the only loop ramp in the original Crosstown Commons design.
Interesting 1960s video from Minneapolis of I-35W. 35W ended at the Lake/31st St exit at the time, which puts the date of the video in 1966 or early 1967. The cameraman is entering northbound from 35th St, passing through the barriers at 31st St, then continuing along the freshly completed concrete north into downtown. There are views of US 212 signed with Lake/31st (212 followed Lake St from ~1934-1983), a 50 MPH speed limit sign (it's currently 55 MPH), a view down Lake St to the east from the 35W overpass, video from the downtown split up to 10th St, and a partial return southbound shot coming off 10th St/4th Ave towards where MN 65 crosses over I-94. Aside from the 50 MPH speed limit sign, there were no signs yet posted on the then-unopened section.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mplsarchives/20639797346/
They keep having issues with accidents at the I-35/MN 33 interchange in Cloquet where southbound traffic on 33 wanting to head north on I-35 has to turn left across traffic coming north off I-35, and the traffic coming off 35 is often speeding and has poor sightlines as they have to come over a hill. MNDot has tried adding an electronic speed indicator sign to get the attention of drivers getting off I-35 and making some pavement marking changes for MN 33 southbound traffic. I think honestly the best thing is just to install a stoplight here. It would be the most expensive fix short of reconfiguring the entire interchange, but what MNDot has tried isn't working.
Quote from: froggie on August 28, 2015, 08:35:51 AM
Interesting 1960s video from Minneapolis of I-35W. 35W ended at the Lake/31st St exit at the time, which puts the date of the video in 1966 or early 1967. The cameraman is entering northbound from 35th St, passing through the barriers at 31st St, then continuing along the freshly completed concrete north into downtown. There are views of US 212 signed with Lake/31st (212 followed Lake St from ~1934-1983), a 50 MPH speed limit sign (it's currently 55 MPH), a view down Lake St to the east from the 35W overpass, video from the downtown split up to 10th St, and a partial return southbound shot coming off 10th St/4th Ave towards where MN 65 crosses over I-94. Aside from the 50 MPH speed limit sign, there were no signs yet posted on the then-unopened section.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mplsarchives/20639797346/
Froggie, thanks for the headsup.
And... Sears Used Cars?
Freeway lighting upgrades:
MnDOT is replacing the luminaires on most freeway lights within the metro and also around St. Cloud with very thin LED-imbedded luminaires. Very quickly too.
As an additional perk of the upgrade, the Lafayette Freeway is having continuous lighting extended from Thompson Avenue to I-494. The median lighting is being replaced with new cobraheads along the outer shoulders.
Going back to Old Hwy 14 between Janesville and Owatonna, a judge dismissed yet another lawsuit (http://www.southernminn.com/owatonna_peoples_press/news/article_756bbfb0-df0a-5bcc-8816-b2da52cac835.html) brought up by Steele and Waseca Counties against MnDOT (filed back in May) regarding the reconstruction of old US 14. In short, the counties wanted paved shoulders and cited that MnDOT's own technical manuals and policies would suggest such in many locations. In the current reconstruction, MnDOT is putting gravel shoulders instead. And won on the simple fact that the settlement agreement from the PREVIOUS lawsuit states that "the MnDOT is to reclaim the existing shoulder of Highway 14 to aggregate."
Quote from: peterj920 on August 26, 2015, 01:05:36 AM
Would be nice to at least make the loops bigger, they're very tight. There are a lot freeways in the Twin Cities metro also, so I can understand why there's so many cloverleafs. But that interchange is probably top 5 in traffic. 694 is used for traffic that wants to bypass the metro and 494 serves Bloomington, the airport, and the Mall of America. Interesting how Minnesota focuses on building so many freeways but doesn't spend a lot on interchanges, where Wisconsin is the complete opposite. Wisconsin has less urban freeways, but builds extravagant interchanges (Mitchell, Marquette, and Zoo Interchanges are prime examples) It's very expensive to have both, and that's probably why the states have such a contrast.
Oh my gosh, my family mentions it every time we pass through there. Shortest merging lanes I've ever seen. The WI29/US53 interchange in Lake Hallie is similar to a cloverleaf, a stretched out cloverleaf, has collector lanes 1/2 mile before the interchange in all directions, and the merge lanes between all the loops seem like they are all at least 1/4 mile long, with lanes extending past the loops on each end, so that traffic can use that to merge back onto the main flow rather use the part that traffic entering the cloverleaf uses.
MNPass lanes proposed for a 14-mile stretch of I-35W roughly between MN 36 and Lexington Avenue. Construction wouldn't begin until 2019 provided MNDot can convince the state to fund the project.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/09/25/new-mnpass-lanes-could-be-coming-to-north-metro/
US 53 relocation in Virginia receives final federal approval; the mining company that current US 53 exists on has agreed to an extension of the lease with MNDot until November 2017 when MNDot expects to finish the rerouted 53.
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/iron-range/3847530-highway-53-reroute-between-eveleth-and-virginia-receives-federal-approval
I'd noticed the I-35W MnPASS lane project (and a different news article on it) the other day, but opted not to say anything as only under the most optimum conditions would construction begin in 2019.
As for US 53....$240 million to relocate a road for a mine that has been having issues anyway (http://minnesotabrown.com/2015/08/highway-53-to-the-danger-zone.html)...
Quote from: froggie on September 26, 2015, 08:01:03 AM
I'd noticed the I-35W MnPASS lane project (and a different news article on it) the other day, but opted not to say anything as only under the most optimum conditions would construction begin in 2019.
As for US 53....$240 million to relocate a road for a mine that has been having issues anyway (http://minnesotabrown.com/2015/08/highway-53-to-the-danger-zone.html)...
MnPASS... I have nothing good to say... :banghead:
No matter how the mining company does, to assume TH 53 will does not have to be relocated is a very bad assumption. Even if United Taconite were to sell/go under, guaranteed another company would come in and buy out the mine and put MnDOT in the same position. The company is not going to sell the mine or even in bankruptcy the land would not go for a significant value less than it's appraised value. Typically land with significant mineral value in bankruptcy still fetches close to the fair market price. So it still makes sense for MnDOT to build a bridge versus pay the $400 million to buy the mineral rights under the existing highway. If anything this puts MnDOT in less of a stressful time frame to complete the bridge project and vacate the existing highway.
As for the writer's comment on cost overruns budget (I know you didn't write the piece Froggie, you are just linking us to it), MnDOT does a pretty good job at estimating project costs. These large projects have enough contingency in them and MnDOT over the past 8 years has started/completed a lot of high cost bridge projects that one would expect they will probably stay on budget with this one as well. Design-build has really brought down project overruns and change orders (averaging 2% of the project budget in design-build versus design-bid-build at 6%).
I haven't been following the situation up in Virginia closely, but I guess I just assumed the relocation of US 53 would involve filling in whatever mine hole the new highway would go through with the endless supply of old overburden in the area.
The huge "Bridge to Target" (as that editorial so delightfully put it) has got to be the majority of the cost. If they are going to spend over $200 million, MnDOT might as well just build a bypass of Virginia to the east. Like completely. The land is already destroyed by older mines.
At the very least, that alternative they had in the County Road 7 corridor is looking much better now that I know there's a big, expensive bridge involved.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 27, 2015, 12:47:11 AM
MN 5 likely to be turned back to Washington County between MN 120 and MN 36 (its present east terminus) this summer.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_28194176/mndot-handing-over-stretch-minnesota-5-washington-county
The article mentions something a little more curious though: MNDot is apparently trying to hand over a section of MN 60 in Worthington. What is this section and why would they hand it over?
Wasn't there an intent long ago to make this a 4-lane highway through the east side of St. Paul all the way to Stillwater, but it was eventually killed, and that's why the 4-lane was built east of 694?
More or less. Dates to the '50s. Was effectively dead by 1980-ish.
I don't believe this was posted before: Apparently a Tier 1 ROD was reached for a new freeway connecting US 212 with US 169 (https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/06/12/2015-14080/notice-of-final-federal-agency-actions-on-proposed-highway-in-minnesota)
Quote from: from federal registerNotice is hereby given that FHWA has issued at Tier I Record of Decision (ROD) in connection with a proposed highway project in the State of Minnesota: Construction of a new Trunk Highway (TH) 41 Minnesota River crossing connecting Trunk Highway 169 and United States (US) Highway 212 in the vicinity of the existing Trunk Highway 41. A modified Alternative C-2 corridor was the selected alternative in the Tier I FEIS. The selected alternative is an approximately 3 mile long, 300-foot wide corridor to accommodate a new four-lane east-west regional freeway connection between US 169 and US 212 that will improve regional accessibility and alleviate traffic congestion.
It's been mentioned somewhere in the past, but MnDOT can't even fund a freeway connection that's been through the EIS process for years (between I-94 and US 10 near Clearwater), so the odds of this getting funded anytime soon are basically zero.
Quote from: froggie on October 17, 2015, 07:36:44 AM
It's been mentioned somewhere in the past, but MnDOT can't even fund a freeway connection that's been through the EIS process for years (between I-94 and US 10 near Clearwater), so the odds of this getting funded anytime soon are basically zero.
Agreed with Froggie. Especially under the Met Council's 2040 Thrive plan, one might as well consider this a dead project. Any expansion project like this one, especially outside of the 494-694 loop, has virtually 0.0001% chance of getting funding.
Some notes from today:
I-494 in Maple Grove: All three southbound lanes to MN 55 plus the auxiliary lane between I-94/694 and Bass Lake Road are completed and open until spring when traffic will shift to that side so the northbound lanes can be rebuilt and widened.
MN 100 in St. Louis Park: Work is progressing at the south end of the rebuild zone around MN 7/Hennepin County 25 and the Cedar Lake Regional Trail. North of MN 7, much of the northbound work has been completed. The new northbound auxiliary lane to the West 25th St exit is now open. One personal thought though is that unsurprisingly, a lot of the intimate feel of MN 100 passing through the neighborhood in St. Louis Park is no longer there. Small price to pay of course, but I'll miss that.
MN 610 in Maple Grove: Road bed is being graded and some overpass construction work at Fernbrook Lane at the least is underway, if not elsewhere along the extension.
QuoteI-494 in Maple Grove: All three southbound lanes to MN 55 plus the auxiliary lane between I-94/694 and Bass Lake Road are completed and open until spring when traffic will shift to that side so the northbound lanes can be rebuilt and widened.
A friend of mine posted a photo of this on his Facebook a couple weeks ago, as it's his normal commute route. Sadly, I had to point out that it's "temporary" until construction resumes.
Oh, and at long, glorious, fucking last: US 52 Lafayette Bridge project is done.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29092737/st-paul-officials-mark-end-u-s-52?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook
Minnesota deserves credit for replacing a lot of old, structurally deficient bridges in the wake of the 35W collapse despite a tight road budget. The Lafayette Bridge was one of the big ones. And they have a bunch more under construction or in the pipeline.
It's good to see a state committed to fixing established infrastructure over expanding rural corridors.
In St. Paul, I saw this bridge on Google Earth:
https://goo.gl/maps/dgbzLjfFmaM2
Surely there aren't plans to widen 494 that much? https://www.aaroads.com/forum/Smileys/default/confused0003.gif
Quote from: rte66man on November 10, 2015, 10:12:49 PM
In St. Paul, I saw this bridge on Google Earth:
https://goo.gl/maps/dgbzLjfFmaM2
Surely there aren't plans to widen 494 that much? https://www.aaroads.com/forum/Smileys/default/confused0003.gif
I believe that design was to minimize the effects on some wetlands adjacent to the freeway.
Quote from: triplemultiplexMinnesota deserves credit for replacing a lot of old, structurally deficient bridges in the wake of the 35W collapse despite a tight road budget. The Lafayette Bridge was one of the big ones. And they have a bunch more under construction or in the pipeline.
That's mainly because the transportation package the Legislature passed during the 2008 session (over the Governor's veto, I might add) contained a funding increase that went SPECIFICALLY to two things: widening MN 60 between Windom and St. James, and replacing/rehabilitating structurally-deficient bridges, with a focus (and Legislative mandate) on fracture-critical bridges.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 11, 2015, 01:12:54 AM
Quote from: rte66man on November 10, 2015, 10:12:49 PM
In St. Paul, I saw this bridge on Google Earth:
https://goo.gl/maps/dgbzLjfFmaM2
Surely there aren't plans to widen 494 that much? https://www.aaroads.com/forum/Smileys/default/confused0003.gif
I believe that design was to minimize the effects on some wetlands adjacent to the freeway.
That is 100% correct. Also the bridge was extended because if you were to place 20 feet of fill over that area, the soils are so poor that the roadway placed on top of that fill would have settled probably 1-3 feet. Bridges don't settle because they are on piling but the soils under the approaches do especially when the fill is placed on poor soil. It would have created quite the bump right at the bridge. :D
All of the costs to mitigate the soils issues and allowing them to avoid major wetland impacts made extending the bridge worth it.
I took a day trip down through New Ulm and Mankato this afternoon, taking MN 68 between the two cities instead of US 14. But I was wondering if sometime down the line when they finish with their US 14 four-laning that MNDot might have designs on eliminating 68 east of New Ulm. It's a nice drive but the upgrades to US 14 make it superfluous. I'm not suggesting this turnback would happen anytime in the near future, more like sometime in the mid-2020s or later.
MnDOT completed a Jurisdictional Realignment study 2 summers ago. According to that, they have no plans to turn back MN 68.
According to today's Pioneer Press (http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29181243/mnpass-lanes-will-open-today-i-35e), the EZPass lanes on I-35E between 694 and downtown St. Paul are supposed to open today (snowstorm permitting). This is a big part of the overall reconstruction project on I-35E between downtown and Little Creek Rd.
A related construction project for next year will extend the EZPass lanes further north...to CSAH 96 southbound and County Rd J northbound. The northbound lane will have a "gap" through the 694 commons, while the southbound lane will be continuous through the commons (starting at CSAH 96).
Update Notes:
Both Intersections for the Century Ave/I-694 Interchanges have had their signals replaced with the stainless steel looking poles, and black signal heads, and the turn signals for Century Ave have been changed from 5 stack to 4 stack FYA. Also, a Dual Right turn lane has been added
MNDot announced a new project for spring: rebuilding the ramp from MN 280 to northbound I-35W in Roseville, and resurfacing 280 between 35W and Como Avenue.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy280/index.html
I94RoadRunner just sent me a photo of a "JCT OLD MN 5" trailblazer on I-694 indicating the MN 5 turnback in Washington County is about to finally be completed.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 03, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
I94RoadRunner just sent me a photo of a "JCT OLD MN 5" trailblazer on I-694 indicating the MN 5 turnback in Washington County is about to finally be completed.
Yes, I saw these myself on Wednesday night. They're posted right next to the BGSes for the exit on both northbound and southbound, but all the old, normal MN 5 signage is still up too, or it was then.
Quote from: invincor on December 04, 2015, 05:02:54 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 03, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
I94RoadRunner just sent me a photo of a "JCT OLD MN 5" trailblazer on I-694 indicating the MN 5 turnback in Washington County is about to finally be completed.
Yes, I saw these myself on Wednesday night. They're posted right next to the BGSes for the exit on both northbound and southbound, but all the old, normal MN 5 signage is still up too, or it was then.
I checked it out today. I'll post some photos later, but to summarize:
-Old MN 5 west of Lake Elmo to MN 120 is an extension of Washington CR 14; east of Lake Elmo to MN 36 is an extension of CR 15.
-The 1-mile guide sign on northbound I-694 has been patched over with a CR 14 shield. All other guide signs related to MN 5 have not been changed yet.
-All signs at the MN 36 interchange have been replaced, although the END MN 5/BEGIN CR 5 1/2 MILE sign has not been removed. There are no OLD MN 5 signs here like there are on 694.
-Still plenty of MN 5 mast-arm signs along the decommed stretch.
An article yesterday from the Worthington Daily Globe (http://www.dglobe.com/news/3898513-53-years-four-lanes-mndot-presents-plans-complete-mn-60) makes note of the 53 year process it's been to upgrade MN 60 to 4 lanes across the southern/western part of the state. But there are 3 notable design changes being pursued for the final segment...from Windom to Mountain Lake:
- The left lane will be 11ft instead of 12ft.
- Some of the shoulder will be aggregate (gravel) instead of fully paved.
- The inside (left) shoulder will be 3ft instead of 4ft.
MnDOT estimates that this will save about $1 million.
Quote from: invincor on December 04, 2015, 05:02:54 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 03, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
I94RoadRunner just sent me a photo of a "JCT OLD MN 5" trailblazer on I-694 indicating the MN 5 turnback in Washington County is about to finally be completed.
Yes, I saw these myself on Wednesday night. They're posted right next to the BGSes for the exit on both northbound and southbound, but all the old, normal MN 5 signage is still up too, or it was then.
I confirmed that all the old MN 5 signage is now gone since you and I went through there when I went to Stillwater on Tuesday. Anyway here are the photos from my drive through there 10 days ago:
New END MN 5 shield at MN 120
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12301651_490563954461558_5690412001921415284_n.jpg?oh=e66759f58da00e84be84c584e053002e&oe=56DA7953)
Patched-over guide sign on I-694
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12345633_494275680757052_8602869211912297145_n.jpg?oh=8bf97cdcf35c3a72b91c92b24382f18f&oe=56DBFB46)
Old eastern terminus at MN 36 (note: there are no OLD MN 5 markers in this area)
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12366384_494275987423688_5241946026429191193_n.jpg?oh=bdd4ce9387d9dafe9ad7681e2238a4c9&oe=56E45A46)
OLD MN 5 assembly along MN 120 at the new eastern terminus.
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/10518011_494276240756996_6515908697114802869_n.jpg?oh=24753fb7dbb3a368edaa289facbd27e4&oe=56DCEE8D)
I'd like to see a lot more "old highway" signs. And not just in Minnesota.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 17, 2015, 05:29:38 PM
I'd like to see a lot more "old highway" signs. And not just in Minnesota.
You might already be aware, but unfortunately these are only transitional and they'll be removed in a couple years.
I remember OLD US 12 assemblies being posted at the interchange with US 169 following I-394's creation, and OLD MN 49 signs posted at I-35W's Exit 36 after that route was retired.
The state just released the 11 projects receiving a total of $32M under the Transportation Economic Development program.
Metro projects include:
-Interchange at MN 36 and Hadley Avenue just west of I-694
-US 169/MN 41 interchange construction near Jordan
-Completing the I-494/West Bush Lake Road interchange in Bloomington by adding a ramp to westbound 494. A ramp wasn't built either initially or during the 2006 I-494 widen/rebuild due to the proximity of a railroad and the MN 100 interchange.
-Rebuild of the US 52/Dakota CR 42 interchange in Rosemount
-Expansion of MN 41 to four lanes between US 212 and Pioneer Trail
Metro: http://www.mn.gov/gov-stat/pdf/2016_01_05_ted2016-metro.pdf
Outstate (not much except some minor intersection improvements): http://www.mn.gov/gov-stat/pdf/2016_01_05_ted2016-statewide.pdf
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 17, 2015, 05:38:17 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 17, 2015, 05:29:38 PM
I'd like to see a lot more "old highway" signs. And not just in Minnesota.
You might already be aware, but unfortunately these are only transitional and they'll be removed in a couple years.
I remember OLD US 12 assemblies being posted at the interchange with US 169 following I-394's creation, and OLD MN 49 signs posted at I-35W's Exit 36 after that route was retired.
Why would there be OLD US 12 signs along I-394 if US 12 is routed along I-394? I know MNDOT wants to make it a hidden concurrency, but I don't think OLD US 12 signs were appropriate since it was part of the current routing. US 10 is signed along I-35E and I-694 so why can't US 12 be signed along I-394 and I-94?
Quote from: peterj920 on January 06, 2016, 06:19:03 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 17, 2015, 05:38:17 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 17, 2015, 05:29:38 PM
I'd like to see a lot more "old highway" signs. And not just in Minnesota.
You might already be aware, but unfortunately these are only transitional and they'll be removed in a couple years.
I remember OLD US 12 assemblies being posted at the interchange with US 169 following I-394's creation, and OLD MN 49 signs posted at I-35W's Exit 36 after that route was retired.
Why would there be OLD US 12 signs along I-394 if US 12 is routed along I-394? I know MNDOT wants to make it a hidden concurrency, but I don't think OLD US 12 signs were appropriate since it was part of the current routing. US 10 is signed along I-35E and I-694 so why can't US 12 be signed along I-394 and I-94?
US 12 was not signed along 394 due to the signing clutter it would have created (https://goo.gl/maps/q69HEHVSD2R2). The signage is already dense in the corridor due to the close interchanges and MnPASS/HOT signing. As for the OLD 12 you are right, that is not correct.
The same is done with 52 along 94 (https://goo.gl/maps/D6jUnMFHuKs) and 12 along 94 (https://goo.gl/maps/SBGY9QPz1J82) through the twin cities metro area with the same idea to reduce signage clutter.
MnDOT in Minneapolis/St. Paul for years has been trying to remove their non-freeway/expressway portions from the central cities recognizing the fact that the freeway system is dense enough to carry these routes.
The larger reason is MnDOT and these two cities also clash in visions for these more urban roadways. An example is during the recent discussion with Bottineau LRT, Minneapolis wanted to turn Olson Mem (MN 55) into a one lane roadway each direction with turn lanes and sell the excess land off for development. MnDOT and the suburban politicians clearly did not have this vision. It came to the point where politicians got involved from as far out as Buffalo (The mayors of Golden Valley, Plymouth, and Medina were extremely outspoken about against the one lane concept), ultimately it will be LRT down the center and 3 lanes inbound/2 lanes outbound (with accommodations to be able to build a 3rd lane if necessary). This just gives people an idea of how different the visions are for these types of roadways.
As we saw, MN 5 was the most recent turnback to the counties. MN 7 east of 100 is another example. MN 120, MN 65 (south of 694), MN 47 (south of 694), and MN 51 are all on the list to be turned back to local governments when the money is available to do so.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394-Completing the I-494/West Bush Lake Road interchange in Bloomington by adding a ramp to westbound 494. A ramp wasn't built either initially or during the 2006 I-494 widen/rebuild due to the proximity of a railroad and the MN 100 interchange.
This had nothing to do with the Hwy 100 interchange and everything to do with the railroad. MnDOT's initial plan was to construct a standard on-ramp which would have crossed the railroad at-grade. FHWA and FRA disagreed with that...this disagreement is why a ramp wasn't built during past 494 upgrades (namely the 2003-05 widening which saw the eastbound off-ramp loop built).
Quote from: RoadguyThe larger reason is MnDOT and these two cities also clash in visions for these more urban roadways.
This is not really the larger reason. MnDOT has been turning back lesser routes for decades now because A) they want to save money for the more important roadways and B) because they feel the lighter used routes are more appropriately placed at the city and county level. Has there been some friction? Sure, but that friction is not the primary reason as you suggest.
QuoteAn example is during the recent discussion with Bottineau LRT, Minneapolis wanted to turn Olson Mem (MN 55) into a one lane roadway each direction with turn lanes and sell the excess land off for development.
Correct on selling excess land for development. INcorrect on roadway width. Minneapolis is okay with 2 lanes each direction, but MnDOT wants to keep it at its existing 3 lanes. Traffic volumes suggest that 2 lanes would still be fine.
I understand why US 52 is hidden, it doesn't split from I-94 until Jamestown, ND and the concurrency is hundreds of miles. I don't think adding a US 12 sign would add much sign clutter, and US 12 is a very important route west of I-394. I think it should be signed along I-394 because of the continuation west of I-694. Why is US 10 fully signed along interstates in the metro while US 12 isn't?
Quote from: peterj920 on January 06, 2016, 08:32:03 PM
I understand why US 52 is hidden, it doesn't split from I-94 until Jamestown, ND and the concurrency is hundreds of miles. I don't think adding a US 12 sign would add much sign clutter, and US 12 is a very important route west of I-394. I think it should be signed along I-394 because of the continuation west of I-694. Why is US 10 fully signed along interstates in the metro while US 12 isn't?
Although I've never been to the Twin Cities, I believe that signs sign US 12 up until you leave St. Paul.
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 06, 2016, 08:36:34 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on January 06, 2016, 08:32:03 PM
I understand why US 52 is hidden, it doesn't split from I-94 until Jamestown, ND and the concurrency is hundreds of miles. I don't think adding a US 12 sign would add much sign clutter, and US 12 is a very important route west of I-394. I think it should be signed along I-394 because of the continuation west of I-694. Why is US 10 fully signed along interstates in the metro while US 12 isn't?
Although I've never been to the Twin Cities, I believe that signs sign US 12 up until you leave St. Paul.
They don't. There are no signs for US 12 east of the I-394 interchange except for the "12 FOLLOW 94" heading westbound after the state line. However there is one "stray" I-394/US 12 reassurance BGS heading west on I-394 as you approach the MN 100 interchange.
Quote from: peterj920 on January 06, 2016, 08:32:03 PM
I understand why US 52 is hidden, it doesn't split from I-94 until Jamestown, ND and the concurrency is hundreds of miles. I don't think adding a US 12 sign would add much sign clutter, and US 12 is a very important route west of I-394. I think it should be signed along I-394 because of the continuation west of I-694. Why is US 10 fully signed along interstates in the metro while US 12 isn't?
It's probably because it keeps switching what routes it's concurrent with as it goes, zig-zagging along the way, whereas US12 heads due east-west along just I-394 and I-94.
Going eastbound, US10 is solo until you get to I-35W, which it joins with for about a mile heading south, then splits off solo again for about 2-3 miles, then joins onto I-694 heading east for 4-5 miles, then switches to join I-35E heading south for about 4 miles, then switches to join I-94 heading east for 2-3 miles, before finally being paired with US61 and heading southeast with it out of the metro. 61 and 10 are cosigned all the way to their split just before Hastings where US10 turns east solo to head into Prescott, Wisconsin.
MNDot's never seemed to have a problem with signing short duplexes such as the 10 example, US 59 in Fergus Falls with I-94, 14/61 on I-90 near La Crescent, etc. It's the lengthy duplexes such as US 12 and US 52 that have resulted in hidden concurrencies or truncations of US routes.
I took a day trip down to Red Wing. On the way back I followed MN 50 from Miesville to Farmington, which I noticed the mileposts reflect the route's old terminus at I-35 and not the truncated western terminus at MN 3. This is similar to MN 16, which retained US 16's mileposts, and MN 101's mileposts which even during the massive upgrades to the northernmost section still reflect the route's former extent south of I-94. Why were these never updated? Is it just a matter of familiarity, or is it seen as inconsequential? Probably both of those.
MnDOT's station-making is based on the mileposts, so it's easier and a HELL OF A LOT LESS paperwork to just leave the mileposts as-is. You'll also notice that MN 5 east of downtown St Paul has mileposts in the 180s....that's a legacy of when it used to be MN 212.
An update on the MN 610 extension: work on demolishing the 101st Avenue bridge over I-94 in Maple Grove started in the last couple days.
I headed down to Maple Grove to check things out this morning. The new 105th Ave bridge isn't open yet; I was under the impression they weren't going to close the 101st Ave bridge until the 105th bridge was open.
The proposed new river crossing west Anoka: it seems now if it ever happens the plan is to tie into a future Brockton Lane interchane on I-94. Was it ever discussed as a reroute of US 169 or was that just roadgeek fantasy (and looks impossible now due to development).
50-ish years ago, there was a proposal for a river crossing west of Anoka that would have been a Champlin/Anoka bypass for 169, but that would not have tied into a Brockton Ln interchange. The current proposal, which does have a tie-in to I-94, wasn't intended as a 169 reroute.
Here's my photoshop of a future Twin Cities Highway map
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1651/24417542059_0793530bb6.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DcGhyt)metro6 (https://flic.kr/p/DcGhyt) by North Star Highways (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
I know it was listed in the realignment study, but would Anoka County be so willing to hand County 14 back to the state after all the money they've put into upgrading it following the original turnback of 242?
Now that it's mostly 4 lanes, possibly. The main reason they accepted the turnback to begin with is because they could get it widened much faster using county, CSAH, and turnback funds than they could waiting for MnDOT to do it. If they give it back to MnDOT now, they still have a 4-lane highway but would be absolved of the maintenance costs and responsibility.
The MN 1/169 relocation project near Ely is getting underway this week as crews will begin clearing trees for the new alignment of road. The project had been delayed a few years due to environmental concerns raised about the original alternative, necessitating the state to develop another alternative.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy169eagles/index.html
Resurfacing project on MN 11 near Baudette added for this year. It's only 8 miles, but the nature of the project will make it a headache for MNDot to complete and they say it will take most of the summer.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/hwy11-baudette/index.html?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 24, 2016, 06:33:55 PM
Resurfacing project on MN 11 near Baudette added for this year. It's only 8 miles, but the nature of the project will make it a headache for MNDot to complete and they say it will take most of the summer.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/1531455e27c5f3db
We can't view links to your own Gmail inbox. Sorry.
Quote from: JREwing78 on February 24, 2016, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 24, 2016, 06:33:55 PM
Resurfacing project on MN 11 near Baudette added for this year. It's only 8 miles, but the nature of the project will make it a headache for MNDot to complete and they say it will take most of the summer.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/1531455e27c5f3db
We can't view links to your own Gmail inbox. Sorry.
That'd be a problem, wouldn't it? (Linking to my own e-mail was unintentional, by the way) :(
It's fixed.
Minnesota's favorite rite of spring about to get underway with several major metro projects kicking off soon, including a rebuild/widen of I-694 in the north metro, I-94 resurfacing on the east side of St. Paul, and a transit-friendly project on I-35W south of downtown Minneapolis.
The I-694 project will be using an express-local system to expedite traffic through the area. Left-lane traffic through the work zone will not have access to any exits between I-35E and I-35W.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/enhance694/
But my concern is that the road is only being expanded between Lexington and 35E (which makes sense I suppose given they just rebuilt the former mess at US 10/MN 51), when I feel a big part of the problem to begin with is the eastbound lane drop at I-35W. Are they ever planning on filling the 10/51 section in to five or six lanes, particularly the eastbound direction?
5 or 6 lanes there would be overkill. There is a large and noticeable traffic drop eastbound at 35W (likewise westbound at 10), which is in part why MnDOT feels it's acceptable to keep that short leg between 35W and 10 at 2 lanes each direction.
Anyone know the history of Constitutional Route 12 west of the Twin Cities. I assume it originally followed the Yellowstone Trail route along Excelsior, than cutting over to what is now MN 5. Later maps seem to conflict on whether it was moved to go through Chaska along 41- one map shows it moved, but a later map (late enough to show US highway markers) shows it was not.
Some notes that may help:
- Today's MN 7 was not built between Excelsior and MN 100 until the mid-30s. MnDOT project logs show the "route" was added in 1921, and both the project log map and county road maps from the early '30s show that C.R. 12 did indeed follow Excelsior Blvd west out of Minneapolis. This would have also included Main St through Hopkins proper.
- The original 1920 constitutional amendment map doesn't have the greatest of resolution, but suggests that originally, C.R. 12 followed Shady Oak Rd south from Hopkins, then followed today's Flying Cloud Dr corridor to Chaska. It certainly shows C.R. 12 going through what is now Eden Prairie.
- The 1926 state highway map and all subsequent maps I have show C.R. 12 along today's MN 41 corridor between Chaska and Excelsior. So based on this, C.R. 12 was moved onto MN 41 sometime between 1920 and 1926.
- As best as I can tell, C.R. 12 never followed any part of what is now MN 5 (east of NYA, at least).
Someone tweeted a photo of yesterday's demolition of the old MN 7 bridge over MN 100, taken from the air:
https://twitter.com/TheNewLou/status/721462450286043136
MnDOT announced their 2016 construction kickoff (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/16/04/14kickoff.html) last week. Between that and it's been over 2 years since I last offered a interchange/major roundabout write-up (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg275765#msg275765), I figured it's time for another update. I'm splitting this up into multiple posts, starting with projects completed since 2014 (includes known roundabouts):
US 2/MN 89 junction west of Bemidji - The former T-junction was converted into a partial interchange. There is a loop ramp from SB 89 to EB 2. An at-grade left turn remains for EB 2 to NB 89, crossing WB 2.
US 2 between Cass Lake and Deer River - A reconstruction project included 3 sets of passing lanes.
MN 7/Louisiana Ave in St. Louis Park - Diamond interchange with roundabouts.
US 10/US 59 in Detroit Lakes (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/dlfrontageroad/) - Substantial completion of a project that rebuilt parts of US 10 and US 59, added a frontage road south of 10/west of 59, and added an underpass under US 59 with a connection between the frontage road and downtown Detroit Lakes.
US 10/Benton CSAH 2 in Rice - Modified diamond interchange.
US 10/US 169/Anoka CSAH 83 (http://www.highway10andarmstrong.com) in Ramsey - I don't remember how the county got funding, but they found it and the interchange is now open, though clean-up work continues into this spring. A partial-folded diamond (http://www.highway10andarmstrong.com/pdf/141020_Layout.pdf) (EB on-ramp loop) was built, with a bridge over the BNSF rail tracks for CSAH 83.
US 12 in Wayzata - Auxiliary lane construction on eastbound US 12 from CSAH 15/101 to the off-ramp to Gleason Rd and I-494.
MN 13/Dakota CSAH 5 in Burnsville - Partial folded-diamond interchange (EB on-ramp loop).
US 14 near Owatonna - 4-lane widening from US 218 to just east of Steele CSAH 43 was completed last fall. This is the first leg in bridging the remaining 4-lane gap between Owatonna and Dodge Center. Of note: an interchange was originally proposed at CSAH 43 and is still on the books, but an at-grade intersection was built instead due to lack of funding.
US 14/MN 42 near Eyota - Roundabout construction.
MN 15/33rd St in St. Cloud - Diamond interchange with roundabouts.
MN 22 at both Blue Earth CSAH 17/Madison Ave and Adams St in Mankato - Roundabouts were added at both intersections.
MN 25 in Monticello - Widened to 4 lanes south to 85th St NE/Wright CR 106.
MN 34 between Detroit Lakes and Akeley - 9 passing lanes (5 eastbound, 4 westbound) built.
I-35 in Owatonna - A reconstruction project that also added auxiliary lanes between Bridge St and Hoffman Dr (old US 14 West, now CSAH 2).
I-35W in northeast Minneapolis - A sequence of projects that added a northbound on-ramp from 4th St, added a northbound auxiliary lane from the Mississippi River bridge to Johnson St, and consolidating the Johnson St and Stinson Blvd/New Brighton Blvd exits into a single exit. This last part removed old grading done on the northbound side that had originally been intended for the cancelled I-335.
I-35W at Ramsey CSAH 96 - The interchange was reconstructed as a diverging diamond (DDI).
MN 36/Hilton Trl in Pine Springs - Diamond interchange with roundabouts.
US 52/Goodhue CSAH 9 south of Cannon Falls - Folded-diamond interchange with on-ramp loops and VERY TIGHT ramp curves.
US 52/Goodhue CSAH 24 in Cannon Falls - Diamond interchange with rundabouts.
US 52/Dakota CSAH 66 north of Hampton - Reduced-conflict intersection.
US 52 Lafayette Bridge - Replaced the Lafayette Bridge over the Mississippi River with a 6-lane bridge plus bike/ped path and relocated the northbound ramps to I-94.
US 59 at Willow St in Detroit Lakes - Roundabout construction.
MN 60 between Mountain Lake and St. James - 4-lane widening.
I-94 between MN 241/St. Michael and MN 101/Rogers - 6-lane widening is completed. Of note: the eastbound lane is an auxiliary lane that ends at the MN 101 exit ramp (so that MN 101 to I-94 traffic can get its own lane).
MN 101/Hennepin CSAH 144 in Rogers - Diverging diamond interchange.
Former MN 101/Carver CSAH 101 between the Minnesota River and CSAH 61 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy101river/index.html) - Constructed a 4-lane bridge over floodplain to minimize river flooding shutdowns and replaced the former wye-junction at CSAH 61 with a roundabout. As part of this project, the short bit of MN 101 south of the Wye to the Carver/Scott County line was turned back to the county.
US 169/Scott CSAH 69 in Shakopee - Partial folded-diamond interchange (NB off-ramp loop).
I-394/Ridgedale Dr in Minnetonka - Adding a WB on-ramp to complete a full interchange.
Ongoing 2016 construction (continued from previous years):
MN 5 Mississippi River Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy5/) - A major bridge redecking continues. Eastbound was done last year, now all traffic is squeezed onto one lane per direction on the eastbound side so westbound can be done.
US 14 from west of Nicollet to North Mankato (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/14newulmtonmankato/) - This project began last summer and involves 4-laning US 14 from west of Nicollet to the existing 4-lane on the outskirts of North Mankato. It includes a Nicollet bypass an an interchange at MN 111/CSAH 23.
MN 23 at Kandiyohi CSAH 5 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23kandi5/index.html) near Willmar - This project will build an overpass for CSAH 5 over MN 23, utilizing the existing grading/fill for what was long ago planned as an interchange when the Willmar bypass was built. The existing roadway north of MN 23 will remain as the connector road between MN 23 and CSAH 5.
MN 23 in West Duluth (http://www.mndot.gov/d1/projects/Hwy23grand/) - Second year of reconstructing MN 23 through West Duluth, from Becks Rd to I-35. The road will basically retain its existing 4-lane undivided configuration.
MN 24 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/hwy24/) - The MN 24 Mississippi River Bridge is being replaced with the new bridge being just downstream of the existing bridge.
MN 29 near I-94 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/alexi94hwy29/) in Alexandria - This project will essentially rebuild the I-94/MN 29 interchange (basically as-is except moving the westbound ramps closer to the I-94 mainline), widen MN 29 from I-94 south to CSAH 28/CR 87 (about 3/4mi), and construct a roundabout at CSAH 28/CR 7 with CSAH 28 relocated to meet MN 29 at CR 87. The roundabout was completed last year.
I-35E from I-94 to Little Canada Rd - Ongoing reconstruction of the I-35E corridor should wrap up this year. The project adds a MnPASS (HO/T) lane in each direction (opened 11/30/2015), replaces the Cayuga Bridge (completed), adds auxiliary lanes between I-94 and Maryland Ave (for a total of 10 lanes on that stretch), and replaces the former 3/4 interchange at Pennsylvania Ave with a full folded-diamond intechange at Cayuga St (northbound ramps open, southbound to open this summer).
I-35E from I-694 to north of County Road J (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35vadnaisheights/) - This project extends on the above Cayuga Bridge project to extend the MnPASS (HO/T) Lanes north of I-694. The southbound MnPASS lane will begin at CSAH 96 and be continuous through the I-694 commons to downtown St. Paul. The northbound MnPASS lane will have a gap through the 694 commons, beginning again north of I-694 and continuing to north of County Road J.
MN 36 St. Croix River Crossing (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/stcroixcrossing/) - Continuing construction on this "Stillwater Bridge" replacement. MN 36 traffic is using the future eastbound off-ramp to MN 95.
MN 43 Winona Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/winonabridge/index.html) - Expansion of the winona Bridge over the Mississippi River. The original plan as it began construction was to build a new parallel bridge upstream as the new southbound lanes and rehabilitate the existing bridge (which is eligible for the National Register of Historic Places) to serve as the northbound lanes. That plan is now $30 million over budget so MnDOT is reevaluating what to do with the existing bridge. The new bridge span is still scheduled for completion this year.
US 53 relocation near Virginia (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy53relocation/) - Mentioned previously on this forum, this project will relocate US 53 on the south side of Virginia so that the adjacent mining company can mine underneath existing US 53. US 53 will be relocated to the northeast, including a 1,100ft long bridge over the Rocheleau Pit that apparently will be the tallest bridge in the state. The project replaces the existing half-interchange at 2nd St with an intersection, but includes a diamond interchange at MN 135 to replace the existing 53/135 interchange.
US 61/MN 97 in Forest Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy61and97/) - Construction started last fall to build roundabouts at each of the 61/97 junctions. "Free right" ramps will be provided for each MN 97 through-right movement off 61, and also from WB 97 to NB 61.
US 63 at Olmsted CSAH 16 (https://www.co.olmsted.mn.us/planning/trnsprtnplng/2015airportinterchange/Pages/default.aspx) near the Rochester Airport - This project is reconstructing the existing interchange into a diamond with roundabouts (https://www.co.olmsted.mn.us/planning/Documents/CSAH%2016%20Preliminary%20Interchange%20Congfiguration%20(454%20KB).pdf).
US 75 near Kent (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/hwy75kent/) - This project is relocating a US 75 railroad grade seperation further north of Kent, in Wilkin County, to reduce persistent flooding closures.
I-90 Dresbach Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/dresbachbridge/index.html) - Aside from removal of the old bridge, construction should finish on the new I-90 Dresbach Bridge over the Mississippi River this year. This project also reconstructs the interchange at US 14/US 61 with more direct ramps (especially WB 90 to SB 14/61).
I-94 at 7th St in downtown Minneapolis (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94minneapolis/index.html) - This project, begun last year, will relocate the westbound I-94 exit to 5th St and downtown Minneapolis to 7th St. The existing 5th St ramp bridge over I-35W will be reconfigured as a local road.
MN 100 in St Louis Park (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy100slp/) - This long-awaited full reconstruction of MN 100 in St. Louis Park should wrap up this year. The plan includes reconstructing the interchanges at MN 7 (into a 5-ramp par-clo) and CSAH 5/Minnetonka Blvd (into a tight diamond) and providing a continuous 6 lanes (3 per direction) on MN 100. Additional auxiliary lanes will be built between West 36th St and MN 7 and also between MN 7 and West 26th St.
US 169 in Belle Plaine (http://www.belleplainemn.com/current-projects) - Another pop-up project, this will build an overpass over US 169 just west of Scott CSAH 3. I'm somewhat surprised they didn't put it along CSAH 3 so as to provide a continuous route. Here's a map (http://www.belleplainemn.com/sites/default/files/images/CSAH%203%20Layout_2014_0.jpg) that shows the location.
MN 210 through Jay Cooke State Park (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy210future/index.html) - This ongoing project will rebuild a section of MN 210 through the park that was washed out in severe flooding 4 years ago.
US 212 at Shady Oak Rd in Eden Prairie (http://www.edenprairie.org/community/infrastructure-projects/shady-oak-road) - This project should wrap up this year. It's reconstructing the US 212/Shady Oak Rd interchange for increased capacity, but retaining a diamond configuration.
I-494 from I-394 to I-94 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494plymouth/) - Reconstruction/widening will finish this year on I-494 between I-394 and I-94. The widenings involved with this project include a northbound auxiliary lane between I-394 and Carlson Pkwy, auxiliary lanes on both sides between CSAH 6 and MN 55, a 3rd through lane in each direction between MN 55 and I-94/694, and a southbound auxiliary lane from I-94/694 to CSAH 10/Bass Lake Rd. Unlike last year, this year's construction will maintain 2 lanes in each direction, with traffic shifted to the southbound side so that the northbound lanes can be rebuilt and widened.
MN 610 between I-94 and CSAH 81 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/610west/index.html) - Construction should wrap up this year on extending MN 610 to I-94. The project includes a full interchange at Maple Grove Pkwy, a partial interchange at I-94 just north of the 101st Ave overpass (WB 610 to WB 94 and EB 94 to EB 610 only), and replaces old 101st Ave with a new 105th Ave from west of I-94 to Maple Grove Pkwy. A project layout is here (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/610west/pdf/610layout.pdf).
New construction for 2016:
MN 1/MN 169 near Eagles Nest Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy169eagles/) - This project will fully reconstruct MN 1/169 in the Eagles Nest Lake area between Tower and Ely, with about half of that on new alignment.
MN 4/MN 30 in St. James (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/hwy4stjames/) - This project reconstructs MN 4/MN 30 through St. James. The project includes two mini-roundabouts in downtown St. James.
US 8/MN 95 near Taylors Falls (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy8/) - Reconstruction of the road results in detours this year. The project includes a roundabout at MN 95 South/Tern Ave.
MN 23 between Pipestone and Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23passinglanes/index.html) - This project will construct 11 single-direction passing lanes along MN 23 between Pipestone and Willmar.
MN 25 in Buffalo (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/buffalo/) - This project will rebuild MN 25 through north Buffalo (on both sides of MN 55) and will include 4-laning for about a half-mile north of MN 55, dual left turn lanes on all approaches at the MN 25/MN 55 intersection, and a roundabout on MN 25 at 8th St NW/CSAH 12.
I-35W at County Road H (http://www.sehinc.com/online/35WCRH) in Arden Hills - This interchange project will reconstruct and reconfigure the I-35W/County Rd H interchange (just north of US 10 East). The reconfiguration will add the missing northbound off-ramp, but in the process will eliminate the southbound on-ramp. The ramp terminals will have roundabouts. Given how close this is to US 10/CSAH 10, County Rd H traffic could use CSAH 10 to get to southbound I-35W. The new northbound off-ramp will bridge under the ramp from westbound US 10 to northbound I-35W, with the latter ramp being relocated to include the bridge.
MN 36 at Lexington Ave in Roseville - This project reconstructs the MN 36/Lexington Ave interchange, essentially the same as the current configuration.
US 52 US 63 South/South Broadway (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy52-63-interchange/) in Rochester - Normally a bridge redecking on the US 52 bridges over US 63/South Broadway, this project will also revise the northbound 3rd lane on US 52 so that it begins from the on-ramp loop from northbound 63 (today's NB 63 through movement) instead of from the on-ramp from South Broadway.
US 52 at Dakota CSAH 86 (https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/CurrentConstruction/CR86/Pages/default.aspx) near Cannon Falls - Another US 52 "pop-up project", this will build another interchange along US 52. The layout (https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/CurrentConstruction/CR86/Documents/TH52-CSAH86InterchangeLayout.pdf) calls for a folded-diamond with on-ramp loops.
MN 77 at Cedar Grove (just south of MN 13) - Not a highway-project per se but a transit project that will impact the MN 77 freeway. As part of the "Red Line BRT" (which follows MN 77), an in-line BRT station will be built in the median of MN 77 at Cedar Grove, just south of MN 13.
I-94 at US 75 in Moorhead (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/moorhead/index.html) - This long-expected project will reconstruct the I-94/US 75 interchange into a diverging diamond. The project also include auxiliary lanes on I-94 between US 75 and 20th St (east of US 75).
I-94 in East St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94stpaul/index.html) - Nominally a pavement reconstruction project extending out to MN 120, the project also includes building an auxiliary lane between downtown and Mounds Blvd, so that effectively you'll have at least 4 lanes on eastbound I-94 from the 11th St on-ramp downtown out to US 10/61 South.
MN 96 at Washington CSAH 15 (https://www.co.washington.mn.us/index.aspx?NID=2021)/Manning Ave near Stillwater - This county-led project will build a roundabout at the intersection.
US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/floodmitigation/) - This year's flood mitigation north of Mankato will rebuild segments of US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter to bring them above the 100 year floodplain. The project requires a shutdown of US 169...the official detour follows Nicollet CSAH 13/MN 99 but MN 22 is also available.
US 169 between Eden Prairie and St. Louis Park (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169hopkins/index.html) - A number of smaller projects are being combined into one. The two biggest items are permanently closing the southbound ramps at 16th St (just south of I-394) and replacing the bridge over Nine Mile Creek (north of MN 62). The bridge replacement will involve a complete shutdown of the roadway for about a year.
US 169 east of Bovey (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy169-cross-range/) - This project extends the 4-lane section of US 169 on the Iron Range another 1.5 miles, from the Bovey bypass to just east of Itasca CSAH 7.
MN 250 north of Lanesboro (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy250-bridge/index.html) - This project replaces two old overhead truss bridges north of Lanesboro. The bridges are being replaced due to being narrow and in poor condition.
MN 371 between Nisswa and Jenkins (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/hwy371/) - This long-awaited project will widen MN 371 to 4 lanes from Nisswa to just north of Crow Wing CSAH 16. It includes a bypass of Pequot Lakes and a diamond interchange with roundabouts at Crow Wing CSAH 11.
I-694 between Arden Hills and Shoreview (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/enhance694/index.html) - This long-needed widening project finally received funding. It will reconstruct I-694 and add a 3rd lane in each direction between Lexington Ave and Rice St. The net result will be 3 lanes in each direction from US 10 West to I-35E.
Stearns CSAH 1 near MN 15 (http://www.co.stearns.mn.us/PropertyRoads/RoadConstruction/CSAH1HeritageDr) - This project widens CSAH 1 for about a quarter mile north of MN 15 and adds a roundabout at Heritage Dr.
Upcoming/future projects:
MN 7/US 71 south of Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy7hwy71roundabout/) - A 2017 project will replace the existing rural traffic signal with a roundabout.
US 10 in Wadena (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/wadena/) - An 8-block leg of US 10 through Wadena will be reconstructed in 2018. The reconstruction will accommodate a future
US 14/MN 15 near New Ulm (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/14newulmtonmankato/) - A project planned to begin in 2017 or 2018 will reconstruct US 14/MN 15 between MN 68/North Broadway in New Ulm and the 14/15 split, including replacing the bridges over Front St and the Minnesota River. The road will be built as 2 lanes, with the bridges expandable to 4 in the future. The existing folded-diamond interchange at Front St will be downgraded to a roundabout with a connector road. The 14/15/CSAH 21 junction will be rebuilt as a diamond interchange with MN 15 as the through route, with dumbbells along US 14/CSAH 21 and a bypass ramp for EB 14 through traffic.
MN 29/MN 55 near Glenwood - Not currently funded, the plan is to replace the existing at-grade intersection with a bridge on MN 29 over both MN 55 and the adjacent Canadian Pacific tracks. The connection between the two routes would be made via an improved 160th St.
I-35/I-535/US 53 in Duluth (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/twin-ports-interchange/index.html) - This proposal would fully reconstruct the I-35/I-535/US 53 "Can of Worms" interchange in Duluth, which has several deficient bridges. MnDOT has submitted a FASTLANT grant proposal (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/twin-ports-interchange/images/TP-FASTLANE-Grant.pdf) requesting funding for the project. The proposal includes a graphic on numbered page 7 that shows the proposed configuration. In short, full freeway-to-freeway movements are retained between I-35 and I-535, the left exits on I-35 will be eliminated (all right-side ramps along I-35), and access between northbound I-35 and US 53 will be reconfigured into a set of regular diamond ramps with a traffic signal. The ramps from southbound I-35 to northbound US 53 and to West 27th will also be reconfigured into a single exit...traffic from I-535 and US 53 would no longer be able to directly access West 27th. If MnDOT doesn't get the FASTLANE grant, they predict they would not get to this interchange until 2031.
I-35W over the Minnesota River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wbloomington/index.html) - MnDOT anticipates replacing the I-35W bridge over the Minnesota Rive beginning in 2020. The project would separate northbound and southbound onto separate bridges (shifted slightly east compared to existing), return a full right shoulder (10ft) and a 6ft left shoulder, add a northbound lane (for a total of 8, 6 regular lanes plus 2 MnPASS lanes), and add a bike/ped path. The interchange at Black Dog Rd would remain.
I-35W/I-494 in Bloomington (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494and35winterchange/index.html) - Arguably the biggest interchange need in the state, but remains unfunded.
I-35W in South Minneapolis (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wminneapolis/) - This massive project would rebuild I-35W between 42nd St and I-94, including replacing several bridges with several other reconfigurations. The project will extend the MnPASS lanes on both sides to 26th St (the existing north dynamic shoulder would become a full MnPASS lane), construct a median transit station at Lake St, add a northbound off-ramp to 28th St, and add a southbound off-ramp to Lake St. In addition, the existing southbound 35W flyover near 24th would be replaced by a fly-under north of Franklin, with SB 35W merging on the right instead of on the left. Also, the flyover from northbound 35W to westbound 94 would be relocated to enter westbound 94 on the left instead of on the right. The project is expected to kick off next year (2017) and take 4 years.
MN 36 in North St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy36study/documents.html) - This is part of the vision which would complete a MN 36 freeway between I-35W and I-694. The last two at-grade intersection are at MN 120/Century Ave and Hadley Ave. Although a preferred alternative has not been selected yet, the likely scenario is a tight diamond interchange at MN 120 and a folded-diamond interchange (folded to the west) at Hadley. No funding has been identified thus far.
US 52 at MN 58 in Zumbrota (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy58-bridge/index.html) - This interchange reconstruction project will add roundabouts at the ramp terminals.
MN 60 between Windom and Mountain Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/hwy60stjames/) - Planned for 2017-18, this 4-lane widening project will fill the final 4-lane gap on MN 60 between Worthington and Mankato, and is part of a larger 4-lane corridor stretching from the Twin Cities to Sioux City, IA.
US 63 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/redwing-bridge/) - Tentatively scheduled to begin next year (2017), the US 63 bridges over US 61 and the Mississippi River at Red Wing will be replaced. Traffic volumes are borderline between 2-lane and 4-lane, but MnDOT opted for a 2-lane span to save money, with a design that would allow for 4 lanes in the future. US 63 would also be relocated out of downtown Red Wing, meeting US 61 directly just east of the overpass.
US 71 at MN 7 south of Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy7hwy71roundabout/) - A roundabout is planned for 2017.
US 71 at Hubbard CSAH 15 in Park Rapids (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/hwy71-parkrapids/index.html) - A roundabout is being considered for this junction in 2018.
MN 72 at the Rainy River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/baudette-bridge/index.html) in Baudette - This 2018 project will replace the International bridge connecting MN 72 to ON 11.
MN 149 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy149highbridge/index.html) - Redecking of the Smith Ave "High Bridge" over the Mississippi River is planned for 2018.
US 169 at Red Oak Dr/Southgate Dr in Aitkin (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/aitkin/) - A roundabout is planned for 2017.
US 169 at MN 37 in Hibbing (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy-169-Hwy-37-Roundabout/index.html) - A multilane roundabout is planned for 2017.
Thanks for all that froggie. Some interesting tidbits there I hadn't known before.
I'm disappointed I didn't see the reconstruction of the MN101/US10/US169 interchange in Elk River. Did I miss that?
No you didn't. MnDOT doesn't have the funding to do anything with it.
Project added for 2017: resurfacing of I-35/35W/35E at their northern split in Forest Lake, but more importantly replacing the bridges at MN 97 and US 8. Anoka County has been pleading for several years for MnDOT to replace the bridge at 35 and 97.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/35linolakes/index.html?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
Quote from: froggie on April 19, 2016, 12:13:25 PM
New construction for 2016:
US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/floodmitigation/) - This year's flood mitigation north of Mankato will rebuild segments of US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter to bring them above the 100 year floodplain. The project requires a shutdown of US 169...the official detour follows Nicollet CSAH 13/MN 99 but MN 22 is also available.
OK, I was fooled. We drove up to Minnesota using MN-60 at the end of April, and when I saw signs in Worthington warning that 169 was closed north of Mankato, I thought it was the usual Spring flooding. We detoured up MN-15, U.S. 14 and MN-99 to St. Peter, but it looked like most traffic was using MN-22 instead of the official detour, which intersected 99.
On the subject of exit numbers on non-interstate freeways: I know that the U.S. 52 freeway upgrade through Rochester a few years back resulted in the exits being numbered. When we were in the area recently, we drove the U.S. 169 bypass around Shakopee, and one exit had new signage with an exit number on it. I think it was Marysville Road, which is the first exit after the new CSAH-69 exit on the west side of the city. (A new exit but no exit number). None of the other exits were numbered. Are these starting to show up on other Twin Cities area freeways?
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on May 20, 2016, 12:27:29 AM
On the subject of exit numbers on non-interstate freeways: I know that the U.S. 52 freeway upgrade through Rochester a few years back resulted in the exits being numbered. When we were in the area recently, we drove the U.S. 169 bypass around Shakopee, and one exit had new signage with an exit number on it. I think it was Marysville Road, which is the first exit after the new CSAH-69 exit on the west side of the city. (A new exit but no exit number). None of the other exits were numbered. Are these starting to show up on other Twin Cities area freeways?
I haven't seen any anywhere else; the roads I can speak for are MN 100 (entire length) and MN 5's airport section, the latter of which I noticed recently underwent a total sign replacement. MN 100 I think saw quite a few signs replaced in 2014 and 2015 with no exit numbers added.
I went up to Minneapolis/St. Paul last weekend, which was my first occasion spending any significant amount of time in Minnesota with a car, though I nicked the southwestern corner near Pipestone back in 1996 and flew to St. Paul in 1997 for a scholarship interview. Since then I have amassed a collection of about 11,500 sign panel detail and sign elevation sheets (largely culled from MnDOT's EDMS and from letting plans that have been available from two vendors since 2007), but was not able to see MnDOT's approach to freeway signing as a gestalt before now. (With the exception of TH 95 between I-94 and Taylors Falls, I still have seen very little of the conventional-road state highway system in Minnesota, and will seek to remedy this in a future trip.)
I have a few questions that I haven't been able to answer by looking in the MnMUTCD.
* The MnMUTCD identifies the square county marker (M1-X4) as the default but says that county authorities can choose the pentagon marker (M1-6) "to establish and identify a system of important County roads." The interchange sequence and route confirmation signs I saw on the freeways suggest that counties use either one or the other, not both. Are there any counties which mix them, e.g. by using the pentagon for important routes and the square for lesser ones?
* Why are Ramsey County routes identified on interchange sequence signs (e.g., on I-35E) as "County E2," "County J," "County C," etc. rather than with guide-sign versions of the county markers, as is the norm (with exceptions that appeared to me to be isolated) elsewhere in the state?
* In Minnesota, as well as nearby states with bitter winters (IL and WI), I notice there are upright signs marking the start of turn lanes. (WI is unusual among these states in using an arrow that points sideways and down, with a bias-cut shaft, in addition to the "LEFT [or RIGHT] TURN LANE" word message.) Are these signs provided to allow turn lanes to be found when the road is covered with snow?
* Is there any significant mileage of two-lane state highway in Minnesota with speed limits greater than 55 MPH? I received the impression that the double nickel still rules on two-lane state highways in MN, IA, and WI, though the top freeway speed limit is now 70 in all three states.
QuoteAre there any counties which mix them, e.g. by using the pentagon for important routes and the square for lesser ones?
Stearns and Dakota are two such examples.
Whether to use the pentagon shield, the white square shield, or a mix, is completely up to the county. Several counties use the pentagon shield exclusively (Hennepin and Anoka amongst them), whereas others use the white square exclusively (Olmsted, Carver, and Lake of the Woods being examples of this).
QuoteWhy are Ramsey County routes identified on interchange sequence signs (e.g., on I-35E) as "County E2," "County J," "County C," etc. rather than with guide-sign versions of the county markers, as is the norm (with exceptions that appeared to me to be isolated) elsewhere in the state?
I laugh every time one of the "uninitiated" encounter this. :-D
In short, those are not county routes...they're street names. The way Ramsey County chose to name their east-west sectional roads was to start with "A" at the St. Paul city limits (Larpentur Ave), and increase one letter per mile. The "2" (as in E2) refers to a half-mile sectional.
Some of them are indeed county routes, both county state aid (CSAH) and regular county roads (CR). But, as per the case in virtually all Minnesota counties, the CSAH's and CR's are numbered routes.
QuoteIs there any significant mileage of two-lane state highway in Minnesota with speed limits greater than 55 MPH?
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/speed/
Some outstate (i.e. outside the Twin Cities metro) roadways have had 60 MPH speed limits for about a decade now. This includes lengthy sections of US 2, US 53, US 71, US 212 (west of Montevideo), MN 7, and MN 23 (southwest of Willmar). Most of US 59 and US 75 were added in 2013.
2014 legislation is mandating that MnDOT study all remaining 2-lane 55 MPH segments on the state highway system through 2019, and implement changes as needed. A map at the end (Appendix G) of this document (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/govrel/reports/2016/th-speed-limit-evaluations-report.pdf) shows the status thus far of these speed studies, including where 60 MPH zones existed before the 2014 legislation, where 60 MPH zones are recommended as a result of the 2014+ studies, and where 55 MPH zones are recommended to remain. As a general rule, locations in/near the Twin Cities Metro, in Wright County, around Lake Mille Lacs, and in Cass County are recommended to remain 55 MPH.
Quote from: froggie on May 20, 2016, 06:44:49 PM
QuoteAre there any counties which mix them, e.g. by using the pentagon for important routes and the square for lesser ones?
Stearns and Dakota are two such examples.
Whether to use the pentagon shield, the white square shield, or a mix, is completely up to the county. Several counties use the pentagon shield exclusively (Hennepin and Anoka amongst them), whereas others use the white square exclusively (Olmsted, Carver, and Lake of the Woods being examples of this).
QuoteWhy are Ramsey County routes identified on interchange sequence signs (e.g., on I-35E) as "County E2," "County J," "County C," etc. rather than with guide-sign versions of the county markers, as is the norm (with exceptions that appeared to me to be isolated) elsewhere in the state?
I laugh every time one of the "uninitiated" encounter this. :-D
In short, those are not county routes...they're street names. The way Ramsey County chose to name their east-west sectional roads was to start with "A" at the St. Paul city limits (Larpentur Ave), and increase one letter per mile. The "2" (as in E2) refers to a half-mile sectional.
Some of them are indeed county routes, both county state aid (CSAH) and regular county roads (CR). But, as per the case in virtually all Minnesota counties, the CSAH's and CR's are numbered routes.
As you stated, the street names are alphabetical (one letter per mile, starting at Larpenteur) while the current county designations are numerical. But, up through the 1950s, those letters actually were the official county designations. I'd have to look at old maps to see if any north-south roads had official designations. The current sequentially numbered Ramsey County highway system was introduced probably by 1960. I haven't looked back to see when those numbers first showed up.
Though it's possible Ramsey County revised their numbering system since then, the modern CSAH system was created in 1957 (following the 1956 Constitutional amendment that created the funding stream), so it would be no later than 1957 when numerical CSAH routes were created.
My thanks to Froggie for his thorough answers to my questions.
In regard to what High Plains Traveler says, I've been through my collection of MnDOT sign panel detail sheets for county 62 (Ramsey) and I see MnDOT has been very careful not to couple any of the "County X" names with county route shields. Google Maps, however, is not so cautious. A casual look at the mapping for the eastern part of the Twin Cities on my phone turns up County D labeled with a "D" in a square.
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 21, 2016, 05:00:39 PM
My thanks to Froggie for his thorough answers to my questions.
In regard to what High Plains Traveler says, I've been through my collection of MnDOT sign panel detail sheets for county 62 (Ramsey) and I see MnDOT has been very careful not to couple any of the "County X" names with county route shields. Google Maps, however, is not so cautious. A casual look at the mapping for the eastern part of the Twin Cities on my phone turns up County D labeled with a "D" in a square.
Google Maps on-line provides sporadic markings for Ramsey County routes not established along a road named with a lettered County Road designation. In a limited search, it also has a few "County Road X" named roads marked with their official county numerical designation. This is more evident when drilling down to high magnification.
A piece of trivia is that Ramsey did not mark essentially any of its official county road numbers until the late 1990s. Then, they starting posting numbers (using the pentagon sign) in the areas outside St. Paul. Finally, they marked the County State-Aid Highways within St. Paul - going overboard to the point where a route shield was posted immediately after all signalized intersections, even though there might have been a marker one or two blocks back.
Quote from: froggie on May 20, 2016, 06:44:49 PM
QuoteI laugh every time one of the "uninitiated" encounter this. :-D
In short, those are not county routes...they're street names. The way Ramsey County chose to name their east-west sectional roads was to start with "A" at the St. Paul city limits (Larpentur Ave), and increase one letter per mile. The "2" (as in E2) refers to a half-mile sectional.
I've lived here my whole life, and I never knew that. So it's kind of like the numbering around Detroit (seven mile, eight mile, nine mile etc.) I did know that St. Paul addresses are based on a mile system, rather than a grid system, which also confuses a lot of people.
Washington County for a long time just had the white square signs, and then a mix. I think they may have all gone to the blue pentagon.
Quote from: discochrisWashington County for a long time just had the white square signs, and then a mix. I think they may have all gone to the blue pentagon.
There've been a number of counties that have gone this route (pun intended). I think Freeborn County is on its way there, which wouldn't be the first time they'd changed. I'm old enough to remember seeing white-on-green county shields in Freeborn County.
Quote from: froggie on May 20, 2016, 06:44:49 PM
QuoteAre there any counties which mix them, e.g. by using the pentagon for important routes and the square for lesser ones?
Some outstate (i.e. outside the Twin Cities metro) roadways have had 60 MPH speed limits for about a decade now. This includes lengthy sections of US 2, US 53, US 71, US 212 (west of Montevideo), MN 7, and MN 23 (southwest of Willmar). Most of US 59 and US 75 were added in 2013.
US 212 is also 60 MPH on two-lane sections between Granite Falls and Chaska (except for sections through towns).
That would be the result of the recent speed studies, as noted in the last link I provided above. The section west of Montevideo has been 60 MPH for about a decade now.
I took this picture (https://i.imgur.com/vZtyiNL.jpg) on MN-210 back on May 1st. I find it really interesting that the DOT posted an actual End sign for what should be a temporary closure. (I should note that this was coming from the west. There was no sign marking the temporary end coming from the east.)
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 04, 2016, 04:54:31 AM
I took this picture (https://i.imgur.com/vZtyiNL.jpg) on MN-210 back on May 1st. I find it really interesting that the DOT posted an actual End sign for what should be a temporary closure. (I should note that this was coming from the west. There was no sign marking the temporary end coming from the east.)
I noticed this too when I saw it last fall. I think it's because of two factors: one is the length of the 210 closure, which will mark its fourth year later this month, but the bigger thing I think is that MnDOT's stated preference was to not rebuild that section of road at all before public opinion from locals swayed them to do so.
It's amusing in another way because the END MN 210 shield at MN 23 is still there (and what reason would they have to remove it, since that open section of 210 doesn't go anywhere but a dead end at this point) so the road currently has two eastern terminus END shields within a five-mile span.
I remember heading westbound on that stretch of 210 on a slightly snowy day and couldn't get up the hill. we kept rolling back but there was no room to turn around.
Curious why there is a MN-39 instead of 210 just going to the border.
Quote from: texaskdog on June 04, 2016, 02:46:59 PM
I remember heading westbound on that stretch of 210 on a slightly snowy day and couldn't get up the hill. we kept rolling back but there was no room to turn around.
Curious why there is a MN-39 instead of 210 just going to the border.
MN 39 is a holdover from the US 210 days. I believe 39 used to end at the current 210/MN 45 intersection in Carlton, which at the time was the intersection with old US 61. When US 210 was decommissioned MN 210 was extended over 39 to meet MN 23. But why the stub of 39 was kept I don't know.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 04, 2016, 05:46:30 AM
It's amusing in another way because the END MN 210 shield at MN 23 is still there (and what reason would they have to remove it, since that open section of 210 doesn't go anywhere but a dead end at this point) so the road currently has two eastern terminus END shields within a five-mile span.
Yep. (https://i.imgur.com/RZG61Fx.jpg)
I also enjoyed the closed signs (https://i.imgur.com/tauv2Xh.jpg) attached to the junction/direction signs on MN-23.
The new ramp from I-94W to 7th St., replacing the ramp to 5th St. near US Bank Stadium, is now open to traffic. It's definitely weird not having the 5th St. ramp after using it for three years during my morning commute, but it makes sense. It also reminds me of a plan I saw that had that ramp from the beginning.
Saw the signs for that yesterday and it threw me off at first.
Speaking of which, I just returned back East from a 5 day trip to Minnesota. A few notes:
- Traversing through a good chunk of Districts 1 and 3, we found 60 MPH speed zones are now posted on lengthy segments of the following routes: MN 18, MN 23, MN 47, MN 107, and MN 210.
- Noticed that Metro Division is now using 3-digit-sized reassurance shields along US 169, at least within Hennepin County. The standard has long been to use 2-digit-size shields for 3-digit routes and use Series C font where necessary to fit the digits. These shields were much wider...able to easily fit Series D digits.
- Though I missed a photo opportunity, there is at least one exit on the US 169 Shakopee Bypass that has an exit number posted on the guide signage.
Quote from: froggie on June 20, 2016, 10:18:01 PM
- Though I missed a photo opportunity, there is at least one exit on the US 169 Shakopee Bypass that has an exit number posted on the guide signage.
I managed to get a photo a couple weeks ago for those who want to see it. Apologies for the ugly Scott County 83 shields.
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13319734_552933828224570_4122196198344214662_n.jpg?oh=1a864bd142cac88947de56850144cbad&oe=57D11167)
A slew of exit numbers have popped up on the US 10/61 freeway between Bailey and Summit in the southeast metro. The downside is all the new I-494 shields on the signs are ugly. :pan:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 18, 2016, 02:26:54 PM
The downside is all the new I-494 shields on the signs are ugly. :pan:
In what way?
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on July 24, 2016, 02:14:09 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 18, 2016, 02:26:54 PM
The downside is all the new I-494 shields on the signs are ugly. :pan:
In what way?
The word "INTERSTATE" is an ugly font and spreads the entire width of the shield.
TIGER grants were announced in another thread, but of note in the awards is $17M for a new interchange at US 169/MN 41/CSAH 78.
What's with the milemarkers on US 65? They're in the low 300s, which doesn't make any sense at all, and only reach the 270-280s on the Iowa side.
Quote from: Bickendan on August 10, 2016, 11:42:44 AM
What's with the milemarkers on US 65? They're in the low 300s, which doesn't make any sense at all, and only reach the 270-280s on the Iowa side.
Most likely changed in order to prevent internal confusion with MN 65 - the Twin Cities' MN 62 has mileposts starting in the 100s for that reason.
have you ever given a direction that referred to "MN 62 mile marker 24"?
Quote from: texaskdog on August 10, 2016, 01:21:56 PM
have you ever given a direction that referred to "MN 62 mile marker 24"?
I don't think it has anything to do with Joe Motorist. It's related to the internal DOT inventory and internal records.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 10, 2016, 01:38:46 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 10, 2016, 01:21:56 PM
have you ever given a direction that referred to "MN 62 mile marker 24"?
I don't think it has anything to do with Joe Motorist. It's related to the internal DOT inventory and internal records.
I don't know we cared so much
ha ha
Actually I was surprised they just didn't renumber the other MN 62
Both 62's had long-standing route numbers. MnDOT perceived there was a low chance of confusion between the two, and so kept the 62 number when they took over Hennepin CSAH 62.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 10, 2016, 12:18:48 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on August 10, 2016, 11:42:44 AM
What's with the milemarkers on US 65? They're in the low 300s, which doesn't make any sense at all, and only reach the 270-280s on the Iowa side.
Most likely changed in order to prevent internal confusion with MN 65 - the Twin Cities' MN 62 has mileposts starting in the 100s for that reason.
How would they be? The Minneapolis portion should be starting in the low 100s, from the overlap on I-35 and 35W from Albert Lea to Minneapolis.
Looks like MN 44's milemarkers start off in the 30's. Unconstructed western segment perhaps, I'm guessing from about the US 63/MN 56 junction toward Harmony perhaps?
Also, apparently US 61 is the dominant route from La Crescent through Winona, not US 14. I would have expected the low numbered route in a given tier to be the dominant route. Not an especially pressing 'concern' however.
Also, paging rawmustard, could we get the MN shield icon on this (and other Minnesota) threads please? It makes it easier to spot in the forum's list :)
US routes: x1>x4
Quote from: BickendanQuote from: TheHighwayMan394Most likely changed in order to prevent internal confusion with MN 65 - the Twin Cities' MN 62 has mileposts starting in the 100s for that reason.
How would they be? The Minneapolis portion should be starting in the low 100s, from the overlap on I-35 and 35W from Albert Lea to Minneapolis.
Despite the route south of Albert Lea being a US route, the route north of Minneapolis is both more important to MnDOT and is a far longer route (close to 300 miles).
Quote from: BickendanLooks like MN 44's milemarkers start off in the 30's. Unconstructed western segment perhaps, I'm guessing from about the US 63/MN 56 junction toward Harmony perhaps?
MN 44 previously began at US 63 (about 2.5 miles north of the 63/56 junction), but was turned back west of Harmony in the mid-90s. The turned back segment is now CSAH 44.
This time I'm writing to ask if any thought has been given to a bypass of St. Cloud that would provide a stoplight-free transit of its urbanized area for traffic following the TH 23 corridor. I had the misfortune to try to get through the town on a Friday in late August, when it was choked with weekenders (probably from the Twin Cities), and was both amazed and appalled by the number of stoplights: I count 22 traffic signal installations along TH 23 between I-94 and TH 95 inclusive.
A casual check of Google Maps routings suggests my options for this length of TH 23 are as follows:
* TH 23 all the way (13.5 miles)--23 minutes
* I-94 to TH 15, TH 15 back to TH 23 (cuts out five signals, since it is mostly grade-separated and stoplight-free all the way to TH 23) (15.3 miles)--20 minutes
* I-94 to TH 24 Clearwater-Clear Lake, back north to TH 95 via locally maintained roads (30.5 miles)--34 minutes
The last-listed route has a very steep distance penalty of 17 miles but in Friday afternoon traffic might have been faster, and would almost certainly have been less hassle. It took considerably longer than 23 minutes to clear St. Cloud along TH 23.
Casual Googling suggests that the closest thing to a TH 23 St. Cloud bypass MnDOT has on its books is a freeway connector between I-94 and US 10, loosely following the TH 24 corridor between Clearwater and Clear Lake. This is described as "unprogrammed" and the timeline ends in 2008.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/projects/interregionalconnection/
Bypasses along the TH 23 corridor near St. Cloud have already been built, including one at Willmar and another at Paynesville that apparently opened a few years ago after being on the drawing boards for twenty years.
How much traffic on MN 23 is bypassing St. Cloud really?
There was an option (That St. Cloud was really pushing for that would have built the new river crossing around 33rd, but this was one of the more expensive and least effective options towards the goal of making it easier for traffic shuttling between US 10 and I-94
St. Cloud has a population of about 70,000, so a ballpark estimate for the proportion of bypassable traffic on TH 23 (based on 1930's research that regresses bypassable traffic against city size) is 45%. It would require an origin-destination survey (possibly one using automatic license plate recognition over a wide area) to come up with exact figures.
The cross-section width in combination with the level of summer Friday afternoon congestion on TH 23 through St. Cloud proper is consistent with an AADT in the 30,000-40,000 VPD range. 45% of 30,000 VPD is 13,500 VPD, which is enough to meet the traditional 10,000 VPD warrant for widening from two-lane to four-lane divided. This does not take into account seasonality of traffic volume, which is likely to be stronger in Minnesota because of the cold winters.
However, it does give an indication of why the St. Cloud city planners would push for a connector in the 33rd St. S. corridor, as this allows TH 23 to be bypassed with no length disadvantage, minimum land-take in the urbanized area since the areas east of the Mississippi River are still greenfield, and with excellent access to the airport. As a connector between I-94 and US 10 it is not particularly efficient, but the fact that MnDOT's preferred Clearwater/Clear Lake solution is better for traffic to and from the Twin Cities does not mean that there is nothing to be gained from a St. Cloud bypass for TH 23 traffic.
To my knowledge, there has never been consideration of a St. Cloud bypass for MN 23 traffic. Nor is there really a need for one. Despite what Jonathan put in his last post, the percentage of through traffic along MN 23 through St. Cloud is no higher than 25%, and most likely lower than that.
I also find the comment about "weekenders in St. Cloud" intriguing because, in my considerable experience (countless weekends passing through St. Cloud going up to my grandparent's cabin), the "weekenders" are largely along I-94 and US 10, not MN 23. Some may have trickled over to MN 15 over the past 20 years now that it's a completed route (it wasn't when I was growing up), but few weekenders are actually stopping in St. Cloud.
Given MnDOT's limited funding, the focus in the St. Cloud area should be where the need is greatest. And that isn't MN 23. It's US 10 (high through traffic volumes, especially summer weekends) and MN 15 (generally higher traffic than MN 23).
Quote from: J N WinklerThe last-listed route has a very steep distance penalty of 17 miles but in Friday afternoon traffic might have been faster, and would almost certainly have been less hassle.
Not if you were headed north/east. You'd have gotten caught in the head-up-to-the-lake rush and certainly would have had a travel time longer than the 34 minutes advertised...
QuoteHowever, it does give an indication of why the St. Cloud city planners would push for a connector in the 33rd St. S. corridor, as this allows TH 23 to be bypassed with no length disadvantage
This is not why they were pushing for a connector along 33rd, however. They
A) wanted another river crossing close to the city, and
B) wanted a corridor that could be developed. Nor did, as I've noted in past research, such a corridor actually connect back to MN 23 to the west...
North Star Highways is Back
https://northstarhighways.wordpress.com
After losing the old site due to an ISP switch I've been writing for a local transportation issues blog, but after a few years some of the mods made it clear my opinions were no longer welcome there so it was time to move on. Right now the priority is copying existing content: blog posts, old web site pages, and some Flickr galleries over and travel season is about over, so don't expect much for "new" content for a while.
For those that read my articles over there, I'm not making a lot of changes when I'm copying them; just updates when appropriate, removal of links to other writer's articles, and reformatting it more like a static web page as opposed to a blog. (Even though it's a blog format because that's the easiest way to publish content on the web nowadays, and I learned wordpress writing for the other site.)
I am abandoning a few articles that are now dated, but all of the good relevant ones I'm republishing. The only ones with substantial changes are the general streetlights articles, which now that I've written several I'm reformatting them to be more logical, and the "Four-Lane Death Road" article, that I'm rewriting from scratch. My content on their site is still there. I've neither asked for it to be removed nor asked that it stay, and I don't have standing to demand either.
Quote from: froggie on October 04, 2016, 11:29:18 PMTo my knowledge, there has never been consideration of a St. Cloud bypass for MN 23 traffic. Nor is there really a need for one. Despite what Jonathan put in his last post, the percentage of through traffic along MN 23 through St. Cloud is no higher than 25%, and most likely lower than that.
How do you arrive at that estimate?
Quote from: froggie on October 04, 2016, 11:29:18 PMI also find the comment about "weekenders in St. Cloud" intriguing because, in my considerable experience (countless weekends passing through St. Cloud going up to my grandparent's cabin), the "weekenders" are largely along I-94 and US 10, not MN 23. Some may have trickled over to MN 15 over the past 20 years now that it's a completed route (it wasn't when I was growing up), but few weekenders are actually stopping in St. Cloud.
I don't actually think St. Cloud is the destination of this weekender traffic. Instead, I suspect a large share of the traffic on TH 23 (larger than on other weekday afternoons in August, and larger than on Friday afternoons in the cold months of the year) is transiting St. Cloud from northeast to southwest, or vice versa. I-94 and US 10 would definitely carry larger volumes of weekender traffic because they are direct connections to the Twin Cities, but I-94 at least is a full freeway and has much greater capacity. The Twin Cities are by far the largest population center in Minnesota, so it would not surprise me if traffic originating there but on tangential itineraries were supplying much of the volume on TH 23.
Quote from: froggie on October 04, 2016, 11:29:18 PMGiven MnDOT's limited funding, the focus in the St. Cloud area should be where the need is greatest. And that isn't MN 23. It's US 10 (high through traffic volumes, especially summer weekends) and MN 15 (generally higher traffic than MN 23).
I am not familiar with conditions on US 10 in the St. Cloud area, but TH 15 at least appears to have comprehensive grade separation with no stoplights from I-94 north to the intersection with TH 23 where the two routes begin their dogleg overlap. I can envisage bottlenecking at that first stoplight at TH 23, but I would have expected TH 15 as a whole to operate at a higher LOS.
Quote from: froggie on October 04, 2016, 11:29:18 PMQuoteHowever, it does give an indication of why the St. Cloud city planners would push for a connector in the 33rd St. S. corridor, as this allows TH 23 to be bypassed with no length disadvantage
This is not why they were pushing for a connector along 33rd, however. They A) wanted another river crossing close to the city, and B) wanted a corridor that could be developed. Nor did, as I've noted in past research, such a corridor actually connect back to MN 23 to the west...
I take the point regarding the planners' intent. Development roads are properly the business of a local agency, not the state DOT. If the concept had instead been for a TH 23 bypass to handle through traffic, the connection on the east side would be entirely on undeveloped greenfield land and so would be fairly simple to build (absent complications such as floodplain or wetlands).
I find it rather interesting that Willmar and Paynesville both have TH 23 bypasses while St. Cloud does not. They are much smaller than St. Cloud, which translates into shorter lengths of new construction required, better availability of feasible corridors, and higher percentages of bypassable traffic, but also lesser benefit to through traffic in terms of time savings. In both cases the bypasses are of high specification, consisting of divided highways with grade-separated interchanges at major intersections (Willmar's is full freeway but does include a US 71 overlap).
QuoteHow do you arrive at that estimate?
A combination of ongoing analysis of traffic volumes in the region and my own anecdotal experience in the area.
QuoteInstead, I suspect a large share of the traffic on TH 23 (larger than on other weekday afternoons in August, and larger than on Friday afternoons in the cold months of the year) is transiting St. Cloud from northeast to southwest, or vice versa.
Not as much as you were thinking before, hence the comment I made upthread.
I did some digging and found this study that focuses on TH 23 improvements between I-94 and TH 15/CSAH 75:
http://www.stcloudapo.org/uploads/1/2/8/7/12874227/th_23_and_csah_75_corridor_study.pdf
It confirms pretty much what I observed--traffic conditions are bad and set to get worse. But probably the key parts are what it does not say. The only build options it mentions keep traffic signals on TH 23 where they are now (the most ambitious call for them to be retained as part of a "throughpass" with beefed-up access control, backage development, and RIRO conversions). None of the projections take account of any intent to build a TH 23 bypass. The scoping (only a little of the way into the St. Cloud built-up area, covering about one-quarter of the stoplights required for a complete transit) is in itself indicative.
A TH 23 corridor study was apparently done in 1997, but I have not been able to find it online as a PDF. This would be useful as a hard check on the estimates of through traffic volume quoted so far in this thread, and might give an indication as to whether the study authors believed St. Cloud would have to be bypassed at some point in the future. The Paynesville Bypass EIS is online (as a Google Book) but doesn't seem to have origin-destination information for St. Cloud at the other end of Stearns County. For Paynesville it does report an O/D study (carried out in 2001) and there is a large difference in bypassable traffic percentage between weekdays and summer weekends--generally in the 40%-60% range for typical commute times but climbing to 70%-90% on the weekends. A similar (though somewhat smaller gap) may be present for St. Cloud.
After lurking for 2 years, this topic brought me out of the shadows.
I've been living in St. Cloud for the past 27 years. Not only does TH 23 have loads of lights. They are also badly synchronized. In addition, the two intersections of TH 15 with TH 23 (and CR 75) are rated among the worst 10 intersections in MN as of 2013. That's because there is so much turning left traffic in all directions that the two lights each only allow 1 direction of travel at a time. https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2013/11/minnesota-s-10-most-dangerous-intersections-and-why-they-are-so-perilous (https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2013/11/minnesota-s-10-most-dangerous-intersections-and-why-they-are-so-perilous)
Also, all main roads on the west side of the Mississippi River converge at these intersections.
For north-south bypasses. The TH 15 bypass is not a great solution, since it has 8 traffic signals between I-94 and US 10. And, US 10 is bogged down by two signals in St. Cloud. On Friday afternoons and Sunday afternoons, the back-ups approaching these lights are huge (last 2-3 cycles).
The TH 24 corridor doesn't work as a bypass since it is a primary transfer route of I-94 traffic to Hwy. 10.
Bob Weisman
Arrow-per-lane signs have made their first appearance in the state. They were installed on northbound I-494 in Maple Grove approaching the 94/694 junction.
Quote from: lakewobegon on October 06, 2016, 07:40:22 AM
After lurking for 2 years, this topic brought me out of the shadows.
I've been living in St. Cloud for the past 27 years. Not only does TH 23 have loads of lights. They are also badly synchronized. In addition, the two intersections of TH 15 with TH 23 (and CR 75) are rated among the worst 10 intersections in MN as of 2013. That's because there is so much turning left traffic in all directions that the two lights each only allow 1 direction of travel at a time. https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2013/11/minnesota-s-10-most-dangerous-intersections-and-why-they-are-so-perilous (https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2013/11/minnesota-s-10-most-dangerous-intersections-and-why-they-are-so-perilous)
Also, all main roads on the west side of the Mississippi River converge at these intersections.
Bob Weisman
The last line in your quote sums it up for me. I've been traveling MN23 on and off for the past 35 years between Mora and Pipestone visiting relatives. Yes, my experience is anecdotal; however, I suspect MnDOT knows there is an appreciable amount of through traffic given their improvements to 23 both NE and SW of St Cloud. Other than replacing the Mississippi River Bridge a few years ago, there has been minimal improvement to 23 from the MN95 junction west to I-94. It is long past time for MnDOT to do a corridor study to come up with real figures.
Looks like MnDOT and Scott County have made a decision regarding a proposed interchange at US 169/MN 41 (https://www.scottcountymn.gov/608/US-169-TH-41CH-78-Interchange-Design-Pro) outside Shakopee. The preferred design (to be built in 2018) is a DDI with US 169 bridged over MN 41/CSAH 78.
The project website mentions that Scott County has also won some additional Federal funding which will allow for an overpass to be built a little further south at CSAH 14. The existing intersection will remain except for a median closure (in effect, it'll be a pair of RIRO on each side). Access across US 169 will be provided by the overpass, about 400ft north of the existing intersection.
In conjunction with median/driveway closures and some frontage road construction, this project will extend the freeway section on US 169 from CSAH 69 down to CSAH 14...about 3 miles.
MN 610 appears set to open any moment now. Crews were working on installing the final signage on I-94 on Wednesday night.
MN 610's final piece slated to open tomorrow (Friday 12/9).
Drove the new 610 tonight.
-The new exits are numbered, but the pre-2011 exits were not retrofitted with exit numbers as of yet.
-It is not Interstate-standard, which will likely quash any hypothetical dreams of making it an x35 or x94. Some features were scaled back as a cost-saving measure. The shoulders on the new segment are either a combination of paved and aggregate, or on overpasses only four feet wide. In addition, the last mile westbound is only one lane as it transitions into the I-94 ramp.
-There are big green spaces on the Maple Grove Parkway signs; does this mean Hennepin County and Maple Grove may have made a CSAH application for that road?
Quote-It is not Interstate-standard, which will likely quash any hypothetical dreams of making it an x35 or x94. Some features were scaled back as a cost-saving measure. The shoulders on the new segment are either a combination of paved and aggregate, or on overpasses only four feet wide.
Believe it or not, for a rural 4-lane cross-section like what they built on 610, a 4ft inside shoulder is the Interstate standard.
Quote-There are big green spaces on the Maple Grove Parkway signs; does this mean Hennepin County and Maple Grove may have made a CSAH application for that road?
I doubt they've made the application yet, but it's a long-term goal to extend/reroute CSAH 121 along Maple Grove Pkwy. The main hold-up with the reroute is extending the parkway north of 81 to tie into Fernbrook.
Quote from: froggie on December 16, 2016, 08:55:24 AMBelieve it or not, for a rural 4-lane cross-section like what they built on 610, a 4ft inside shoulder is the Interstate standard.
I don't have a copy of the actual Interstate design reference, but a quick check of the Wikipedia article based on it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_standards) suggests that the shoulders don't actually have to be paved, either. I recall that about 20 years ago, before most of it was reconstructed, I-85 in North Carolina between Durham and the Virginia state line had stabilized vegetated shoulders.
Just three randon things I noticed:
1) A square County 25 shield on the new exit ramp off MN 100
2) A Flashing Yellow Arrow U-Turn Signal on MN 7
3) Business Loop 169 is on the new BGSes at the Shakopee Bypass.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 16, 2016, 11:37:21 AM
I don't have a copy of the actual Interstate design reference, but a quick check of the Wikipedia article based on it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_standards) suggests that the shoulders don't actually have to be paved, either. I recall that about 20 years ago, before most of it was reconstructed, I-85 in North Carolina between Durham and the Virginia state line had stabilized vegetated shoulders.
The 2005 standards state: "On a four-lane section, the paved width of the left shoulder shall be at least 1.2 m (4 ft)."
The US 169 shutdown at Nine Mile Creek in Hopkins begins this week to rebuild the viaduct there, which is scheduled to last seven months. It's similar to when MN 36 was rebuilt several years ago between I-35E and I-694 where a complete shutdown of the road was enacted to expedite the rebuild.
What do people think of this method anyway? Good idea or is it worth keeping the road open with a longer work process?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 16, 2017, 10:19:11 PM
The US 169 shutdown at Nine Mile Creek in Hopkins begins this week to rebuild the viaduct there, which is scheduled to last seven months. It's similar to when MN 36 was rebuilt several years ago between I-35E and I-694 where a complete shutdown of the road was enacted to expedite the rebuild.
What do people think of this method anyway? Good idea or is it worth keeping the road open with a longer work process?
It's a good idea in my opinion based on the other projects surrounding it. Be in and out in 9 months instead of 2 years. If they did it under traffic over the 2 year schedule for most of the time 169 would be 1 lane each direction and a parking lot anyways for a majority of the day. Might as well close it.
Main reason it was done this way was to get detour traffic off 100 before 35W Lake Street Access gets into high gear in 2018:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wminneapolis/ (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wminneapolis/)
The last thing they wanted was for 35W and 169 to be under construction at the same time. That would place a lot of pressure on the remaining system (that's already at/over capacity) to handle the diverted volumes of traffic.
Random note: Another interesting project: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94brooklyncntr/index.html
Planning on having bi-directional traffic through one tube of the Lowry Hill Tunnel at 30 mph and no trucks.
QuoteRandom note: Another interesting project: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94brooklyncntr/index.html
Planning on having bi-directional traffic through one tube of the Lowry Hill Tunnel at 30 mph and no trucks.
They did the same thing back in the early '90s when they had to do a full pavement reconstruction in the tunnel. 4 narrow lanes (2 per direction) and a 30 or 35 MPH speed limit (don't remember which), with trucks diverted onto the "Prohibited Vehicles" route along Lyndale Ave. Good thing the city rebuilt the Hennepin/Lyndale bottleneck last year...
I hate to do this, but I don't have the patience to check twenty pages to see if it's been brought up already, so here goes my question:
Back in December when I visited the Mall of America, I noticed that all the new signals along Lindau Ln were flashing yellow arrows, but only the single-lane approaches actually had the permissive phase going (the double lane approaches with the FYAs were always protected-only).
Anyone know if the double lefts only get permissive phasing during certain times of day? I swear even late at night, the brief couple of times that I checked (it was -15 for Pete's sake), they were still running protected-only.
Past MnDOT policy was that dual left turn lanes *ALWAYS* were protected-only. I do not know if that changed when MnDOT implemented FYA's, though my own empirical evidence (from times home to Minneapolis since then) suggests that policy remains in place. I'm also pretty sure that, for logistical reasons, MnDOT installs the 4-lens FYA signals even when they have no intention of allowing FYA...simplifies the supply chain when they're only buying one type of left turn signal instead of two or more...
Quote from: froggie on February 01, 2017, 08:25:17 AM
Past MnDOT policy was that dual left turn lanes *ALWAYS* were protected-only. I do not know if that changed when MnDOT implemented FYA's, though my own empirical evidence (from times home to Minneapolis since then) suggests that policy remains in place. I'm also pretty sure that, for logistical reasons, MnDOT installs the 4-lens FYA signals even when they have no intention of allowing FYA...simplifies the supply chain when they're only buying one type of left turn signal instead of two or more...
A similar case noted across the boarder in Eau Claire Wi. Eau Claire has 4 different intersections where 1 of the approaches has a 4 section left turn signal. They all have the sign indicating to yield on a flashing yellow arrow, however, only one intersection has them operating protected/permitted 100% of the time, crossing 3 lanes at 35mph. The other three installations are protected only all of the time aside from one that becomes permissive/protective late at night. I think Wisconsin is the same where they are just moving to installing one type of light.
Quote from: froggie on February 01, 2017, 08:25:17 AM
Past MnDOT policy was that dual left turn lanes *ALWAYS* were protected-only. I do not know if that changed when MnDOT implemented FYA's, though my own empirical evidence (from times home to Minneapolis since then) suggests that policy remains in place.
Yeah, I honestly am pretty sure that I've never seen double left-turn lanes have FYAs, in Minnesota or elsewhere. There certainly aren't any in the Des Moines area, to my knowledge.
Quote from: JMAN12343610 on February 01, 2017, 12:45:55 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 01, 2017, 08:25:17 AM
Past MnDOT policy was that dual left turn lanes *ALWAYS* were protected-only. I do not know if that changed when MnDOT implemented FYA's, though my own empirical evidence (from times home to Minneapolis since then) suggests that policy remains in place. I'm also pretty sure that, for logistical reasons, MnDOT installs the 4-lens FYA signals even when they have no intention of allowing FYA...simplifies the supply chain when they're only buying one type of left turn signal instead of two or more...
A similar case noted across the boarder in Eau Claire Wi. Eau Claire has 4 different intersections where 1 of the approaches has a 4 section left turn signal. They all have the sign indicating to yield on a flashing yellow arrow, however, only one intersection has them operating protected/permitted 100% of the time, crossing 3 lanes at 35mph. The other three installations are protected only all of the time aside from one that becomes permissive/protective late at night. I think Wisconsin is the same where they are just moving to installing one type of light.
That is also WisDOT's policy. Two or more left turn lanes - protected (green arrow) turn ONLY.
Mike
Phasing of dual left turns has been one of forte's for some time now. I've discovered over the years that, in general, state manuals don't permit it, but that individual cities within the state seem to do as they wish. WashDOT doesn't permit it, but several cities in Washington (Seattle, Kennewick; Federal Way and Bellevue at some point) do permit permissive phasing at dual lefts.
In regards to the FYAs outside the MOA, I'm almost as interested to know whether or not the signals surrounding the mall are maintained by MnDOT or the City of Bloomington. Only important because Bloomington may allow dual permissive turns but MnDOT may not.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 01, 2017, 11:16:34 PM
Phasing of dual left turns has been one of forte's for some time now. I've discovered over the years that, in general, state manuals don't permit it, but that individual cities within the state seem to do as they wish. WashDOT doesn't permit it, but several cities in Washington (Seattle, Kennewick; Federal Way and Bellevue at some point) do permit permissive phasing at dual lefts.
In regards to the FYAs outside the MOA, I'm almost as interested to know whether or not the signals surrounding the mall are maintained by MnDOT or the City of Bloomington. Only important because Bloomington may allow dual permissive turns but MnDOT may not.
The only thing MnDOT would be maintaining, if anything at all, are signals on ramps to/from Cedar Ave (MN-77), but I don't know the specifics of the agreements between the different levels of government. The rest would be the city of Bloomington and/or possibly Hennepin County. I doubt they would differ much/if at all from state regulations.
Quote from: jakerootIn regards to the FYAs outside the MOA, I'm almost as interested to know whether or not the signals surrounding the mall are maintained by MnDOT or the City of Bloomington. Only important because Bloomington may allow dual permissive turns but MnDOT may not.
Those signals along 24th Ave would be county-maintained. The others would be city-maintained. But this is a moot point since MnDOT has pretty rigorous state-aid standards, and all of the main roads surrounding the Mall of America are on the state-aid system.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on February 01, 2017, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 01, 2017, 08:25:17 AM
Past MnDOT policy was that dual left turn lanes *ALWAYS* were protected-only. I do not know if that changed when MnDOT implemented FYA's, though my own empirical evidence (from times home to Minneapolis since then) suggests that policy remains in place.
Yeah, I honestly am pretty sure that I've never seen double left-turn lanes have FYAs, in Minnesota or elsewhere. There certainly aren't any in the Des Moines area, to my knowledge.
The policy is now pretty standard that FYA gets installed on all new installations. Now instead of having to justify why you need a FYA, you have to justify why one shouldn't be there.
http://dotapp7.dot.state.mn.us/edms/download?docId=1225902
A couple of locations with FYA on dual lefts (there are more out there, but the list is starting to get longer especially when including local roads):
MN 55 and Lone Oak Road in Eagan: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8479371,-93.1265094,3a,75y,157.59h,75.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sabv71k6BJd4ZS85cUeWEAw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
MN 55 and Winnetka Avenue in Golden Valley: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9836276,-93.3805031,3a,75y,113.98h,86.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1XUQiBWbEhl97a4bxfmgww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
MN 55 and Plymouth Blvd/Niagara Lane in Plymouth: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0153297,-93.4708616,3a,75y,299.3h,77.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKz3_JIRcM0tLqBzbs5JSHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
MN 7 and Oak Street in Excelsior: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8979595,-93.5678597,3a,75y,47.45h,81.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBACQjdDQcqGHOD4RR3jV6w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
These run protective during the day and only run FYA later at night. On the local systems there are some that run FYA during the day on dual lefts and only go to protected in AM/PM peak hours. Recently I've noticed there are some FYA that wait 3-4 seconds to go to FYA after that thru direction indication gets a green ball. One would assume it would be to get other vehicles and pedestrians out into the intersection so they are more visible to those who can turn left on a FYA.
Quote from: Roadguy on February 02, 2017, 08:09:17 AM
The policy is now pretty standard that FYA gets installed on all new installations. Now instead of having to justify why you need a FYA, you have to justify why one shouldn't be there.
http://dotapp7.dot.state.mn.us/edms/download?docId=1225902
[snip]
Cool to see I've been proven wrong. Thanks!
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on February 02, 2017, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Roadguy on February 02, 2017, 08:09:17 AM
The policy is now pretty standard that FYA gets installed on all new installations. Now instead of having to justify why you need a FYA, you have to justify why one shouldn't be there.
http://dotapp7.dot.state.mn.us/edms/download?docId=1225902
[snip]
Cool to see I've been proven wrong. Thanks!
At least you're humble.
Glad to see MnDOT being so progressive (by installing FYAs at all new approaches that meet criteria), even if they disable the FYAs during most of the day (or entirely). It gives the traffic engineers a lot of freedom to really control each and every signal, something that isn't entirely possible with protected only turns. If there's no ban on permissive turns against a lot of lanes or high speed approaches, they could have a lot of fun with lead/lag signals (if that's something they like to do).
Quote from: Roadguy on February 02, 2017, 08:09:17 AM
These run protective during the day and only run FYA later at night. On the local systems there are some that run FYA during the day on dual lefts and only go to protected in AM/PM peak hours.
Any video of this? I believe you, but I'm just curious to see how they operate.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 02, 2017, 04:25:55 PM
At least you're humble.
Glad to see MnDOT being so progressive (by installing FYAs at all new approaches that meet criteria), even if they disable the FYAs during most of the day (or entirely). It gives the traffic engineers a lot of freedom to really control each and every signal, something that isn't entirely possible with protected only turns. If there's no ban on permissive turns against a lot of lanes or high speed approaches, they could have a lot of fun with lead/lag signals (if that's something they like to do).
Quote from: Roadguy on February 02, 2017, 08:09:17 AM
These run protective during the day and only run FYA later at night. On the local systems there are some that run FYA during the day on dual lefts and only go to protected in AM/PM peak hours.
Any video of this? I believe you, but I'm just curious to see how they operate.
Is humility on the Internet really so rare as to be noteworthy these days? ...Psssh, who am I kidding, lol. My username might try to imply that I know everything about Minnesota highways... but I don't, and I haven't even lived there since 2010. I ain't going to pretend I even know
close to everything.
I second that request for a video.
Hennepin County's new standard phasing is to use the 4 second delay before a flashing yellow arrow starts (but there are a lot of older county signals that do not do this). Bloomington is also implementing protected only phases if there's a conflicting ped call, which Hennepin County will use selectively.
I've never seen the double lanes on Lindau operate with flashing yellow arrows either, and in fact there are no signs mounted on these approaches.
Met Council Regional Solicitation Grants Awarded.
https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Planning-2/Transportation-Funding/Regional-Solicitation/RegionalSolicitationAwardedGrants/2016-Selected-Regional-Solicitation-Projects.aspx
Brooklyn Center got two of them by splitting the 66th interchange project into the interchange itself (Roadway Expansion) and an pedestrian bridge where 70th will be cut off (Multiuse Trails and Bicycle Facilities)
A few highlights:
Interchange at MN 252 and 66th St North, the busiest signalized intersection in the state and one of the most dangerous due to high speeds, congestion, and site distance problems. 70th will be cut off and a pedestrian bridge built in a separate grant.
New interchange at Brockton Lane and I-94 in Dayton. The local governments have been asking for this one for 15 years for economic development and it will connect to a possible new river crossing.
An interchange at MN 36 at Manning Ave, as the evolution of MN 36 from expressway to freeway continues. (An interchange at Hadley Ave is already funded, that leaves Century [will not be done until work on Hadley is complete], Lake Elmo [they said no to the overpass and won't come up with funding for an interchange], and the three in Oak Park Heights [Oak Park Heights threatened to veto the bridge project if the signals were removed]).
Third northbound lane on Snelling in Roseville
Rebuilding the Rice Street interchange with I-694 as a diamond with a bunch of roundabouts (rather than a parclo like the plans we found previously)
Scott County 14 interchange at US 169 (Don't know why they got this one, Scott County has plenty of their own money for stuff like this thanks to their opt-out tax)
77th Street underpass under Cedar
Fairoak Underpass under US 10,
More work on the St. Paul Grand Rounds trails
A bunch of trails along suburban highways
A bunch of sidewalks near some St. Paul schools
Fiber optic traffic signal interconnects on Old Shakopee, Minnetonka, Exclesior, Rockford, Snelling, and Lexington
Rebuilding Lake / Excelsior to be more pedestrian friendly
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 03, 2017, 08:58:01 AM
Fiber optic traffic signal interconnects on Old Shakopee, Minnetonka, Exclesior, Rockford, Snelling, and Lexington
Is there any advantage to using fiber optic lines to connect traffic signals over copper wires? I understand the advantage when it comes to Internet connections, but not with regards to traffic signals. Seems like super-expensive overkill to me.
QuoteIs there any advantage to using fiber optic lines to connect traffic signals over copper wires? I understand the advantage when it comes to Internet connections, but not with regards to traffic signals. Seems like super-expensive overkill to me.
As those with old school DSL will tell you, there's a distance limitation with copper wire that doesn't really exist with fiber. Important for where there's longer distances between signals.
Quote from: froggie on February 03, 2017, 12:33:56 PM
QuoteIs there any advantage to using fiber optic lines to connect traffic signals over copper wires? I understand the advantage when it comes to Internet connections, but not with regards to traffic signals. Seems like super-expensive overkill to me.
As those with old school DSL will tell you, there's a distance limitation with copper wire that doesn't really exist with fiber. Important for where there's longer distances between signals.
Any use of fiber optics with traffic signals would be limited to setting timing, phase, sequencing, and other parameters remotely or centrally. The signals themselves will still require a standard electrical power supply, which would in any case require metallic wiring; the fiber-optic cables would connect relays or digital switching in the on-site control boxes.
I think he was referring to interconnecting signals, not the physical signal installation itself.
Quote from: froggie on February 03, 2017, 05:05:42 PM
I think he was referring to interconnecting signals, not the physical signal installation itself.
Good -- then that makes more sense. It would be much more efficient to effect some sort of centralized approach to traffic control through synchronization -- if the parameters could be adjusted to account for traffic levels and even recurring anomalies (accidents, road work) in order to optimize them for maximal effectual results. If fiber optics can at once enhance this process while cutting down maintenance costs, it's a "win-win" situation all around.
At this point most of the signals owned by a given agency on a corridor are interconnected, but if you go from a county to city signal, there is not coordination. What's going on is thinking much bigger and implementing a central traffic control system for the south suburbs for all Mn/DOT, south suburban Hennepin, and Dakota county signals. This will eventually include adaptive traffic control. Bloomington also intends to join in and there is a project to lay fiber along Lyndale and American this spring.
US 169/MN 37 intersection in Hibbing to be rebuilt as a roundabout this spring.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy-169-Hwy-37-Roundabout/?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
Is Minnesota going on a roundabout-building binge like Wisconsin has (not that I disapprove of it)?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 07, 2017, 11:44:23 AM
US 169/MN 37 intersection in Hibbing to be rebuilt as a roundabout this spring.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy-169-Hwy-37-Roundabout/?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
Am I the only one who can't load this link?
For that matter, I can't seem to load any links to the MnDOT website. Every link returns with "This site can't be reached" on Chrome.
FWIW, my internet seems to be working just fine, just not with the MnDOT websites. Strange.
Quote from: jakerootAm I the only one who can't load this link?
For that matter, I can't seem to load any links to the MnDOT website. Every link returns with "This site can't be reached" on Chrome.
FWIW, my internet seems to be working just fine, just not with the MnDOT websites. Strange.
Might just be you. Granted, I'm not using Chrome, but not having a problem accessing MnDOT websites in general or this project website in particular.
Speaking of this project, it made last year's forum list (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg2139599#msg2139599) of upcoming projects.
Quote from: froggie on February 08, 2017, 09:09:45 PM
Might just be you. Granted, I'm not using Chrome, but not having a problem accessing MnDOT websites in general or this project website in particular.
I tried it using Edge. Worked fine. :confused:
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 08, 2017, 06:37:15 PM
Is Minnesota going on a roundabout-building binge like Wisconsin has (not that I disapprove of it)?
Not nearly to Wisconsin's extent, but it's been a steadily increasing sight in Minnesota over the last five years or so. I'd say though that local governments started it first and MnDOT is just now starting to catch up to them.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 08, 2017, 06:43:48 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 07, 2017, 11:44:23 AM
US 169/MN 37 intersection in Hibbing to be rebuilt as a roundabout this spring.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy-169-Hwy-37-Roundabout/?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
Am I the only one who can't load this link?
For that matter, I can't seem to load any links to the MnDOT website. Every link returns with "This site can't be reached" on Chrome.
FWIW, my internet seems to be working just fine, just not with the MnDOT websites. Strange.
I have the same problem with Chrome. No idea what it is. I use Firefox to access their site, because I'm presently too lazy to figure out what the issue is.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on February 08, 2017, 10:36:07 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on February 08, 2017, 06:43:48 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 07, 2017, 11:44:23 AM
US 169/MN 37 intersection in Hibbing to be rebuilt as a roundabout this spring.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy-169-Hwy-37-Roundabout/?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
Am I the only one who can't load this link?
For that matter, I can't seem to load any links to the MnDOT website. Every link returns with "This site can't be reached" on Chrome.
FWIW, my internet seems to be working just fine, just not with the MnDOT websites. Strange.
I have the same problem with Chrome. No idea what it is. I use Firefox to access their site, because I'm presently too lazy to figure out what the issue is.
MnDOT had a post on their facebook page awhile back (Jan 17th) about this:
"Having problems accessing our website?
Due to a glitch you may need to clear the cache on your browser, especially if you use Google Chrome.
How to (Chrome):
1. Click the three vertically stacked dots in the upper right corner of your browser.
2. Hover over "More tools."
3. Select "Clear browsing data."
4. Check the boxes for "Cached images and files" and "Cookies and other site and plugin data."
5. Click "Clear browsing data.""
QuoteI'd say though that local governments started it first and MnDOT is just now starting to catch up to them.
I'd argue otherwise. MnDOT built the second & third roundabouts in the state (I-35 Medford interchange) which opened only a month after the first roundabout in Maplewood. Given the timeline involved with state vs. local projects, it's likely that MnDOT started their planning before Maplewood did.
Has MnDOT been slow to pick up compared to local jurisdictions? Perhaps, but I'd argue that MnDOT was the initiator. I distinctly remember that back when the Medford roundabouts were being planned.
Quote from: MnDOT on Facebook
"Having problems accessing our website?
Due to a glitch you may need to clear the cache on your browser, especially if you use Google Chrome.
Hahahaha that's not gonna happen.
Quote from: Roadguy on February 09, 2017, 07:09:44 AM
MnDOT had a post on their facebook page awhile back (Jan 17th) about this:
"Having problems accessing our website?
Due to a glitch you may need to clear the cache on your browser, especially if you use Google Chrome.
How to (Chrome):
1. Click the three vertically stacked dots in the upper right corner of your browser.
2. Hover over "More tools."
3. Select "Clear browsing data."
4. Check the boxes for "Cached images and files" and "Cookies and other site and plugin data."
5. Click "Clear browsing data.""
That actually worked. I have no idea why I didn't try that before... but
maybe it's because I assumed cache data didn't have anything to do with establishing connections. Thanks!
And why can't they just fix the problem on their end, considering the number of people that use Chrome?
I wouldn't. Chrome's a memory hog and a PITA.
Quote from: froggie on February 10, 2017, 10:33:47 AM
I wouldn't. Chrome's a memory hog and a PITA.
True, but a lot of people use Chrome on their computer because they use it on their phone (and vice versa). This has the advantage of syncing passwords, cookies, history, etc between your devices. Makes life a lot easier. I'm sure the same things are possible with mobile versions of Firefox and Opera, but when everything you do involves Google in some respect, it's just easier to use Chrome.
FWIW, the MnDOT website is the first website that I've ever been to that has this issue. Surely it can't be a difficult fix (if it were, I'm sure other websites would suffer the same issues).
I use an iPhone, but I have two Asus Chromeboxes attached to my TV sets and Google Maps seems to work better with Chrome.
Then you have Mn/DOT's lighting layouts which work on Internet Explorer and nothing else (and not very well at that).
A state lawmaker plans to introduce a law to raise the loathed 45 MPH speed limit on I-35E to 55, and failing that will then introduce a bill to prevent cops from giving tickets to anyone driving 55 or under on that stretch.
This would not alter the truck ban on that section, for the record.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/02/13/speed-limit55-mph-interstate-35e/
I'm honestly surprised it's taken this long for a lawmaker to seriously try to change that speed limit.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 14, 2017, 04:10:40 AM
A state lawmaker plans to introduce a law to raise the loathed 45 MPH speed limit on I-35E to 55, and failing that will then introduce a bill to prevent cops from giving tickets to anyone driving 55 or under on that stretch.
This would not alter the truck ban on that section, for the record.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/02/13/speed-limit55-mph-interstate-35e/
That's an annual bill that has been introduced every year. Not even sure if it's ever made it out of committee, usually it goes to the house or senate transportation committees and then dies as it is never taken up. Not enough support statewide to go any further. Only south metro residents are affected and care about it so usually it's one of their legislators who introduce the bill.
The truck ban removal would probably take an act of congress like the stillwater bridge as the original court agreement between the neighborhoods and MnDOT included the ban. The only way around that would be to pass a new federal law overruling the courts. The speed limit was treated the same if I remember right, so that would take the same effort to change that as well.
Quote from: RoadguyThe truck ban removal would probably take an act of congress like the stillwater bridge as the original court agreement between the neighborhoods and MnDOT included the ban. The only way around that would be to pass a new federal law overruling the courts. The speed limit was treated the same if I remember right, so that would take the same effort to change that as well.
That is correct...the original court agreement also imposed the 45 MPH limit. Because of that, any passage of a law changing the speed limit would immediately be subject to a lawsuit that would likely kill said law.
MnDOT is planning the first Reduced Conflict Intersection with stoplights in the state at MN 65 and Viking Boulevard in East Bethel:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy65rci/
Found some on google in North Carolina that have stoplights but it seems there are not too many in the country that have stoplights with them.
I really think MN 65/Viking Blvd needs to become an interchange at some point in the future. I've gotten to know that intersection fairly well over the last several years. But as the DOT even points out themselves in the video, not a lot of money hanging around right now so this at least would be some kind of solution even if I think it's kind of an annoying-sounding one.
Speaking as someone who took many, many trips as a child (and then teenager/adult) between Cambridge and the Twin Cities, MN-65 should really be a freeway between US-10 and something like the Isanti/Anoka County line. As a youngster I used to be able to tell you exactly how many traffic signals there were in that stretch...
What's the advantage of a RCI with traffic signals over a just an ordinary signalized intersection? I thought the whole point of a RCI was not having signals?
RCI with signals is still safer, in that there are fewer conflict points, and has more throughput as the signal phasing is simpler (basically a two-phase).
County Road 42 interchange gets under way this year. At least for now they're not doing an "almost cloverleaf" and the new local street under US 52 next to the railroad tracks. This got popup funding with the 2014 round of Met Council TAB grants. County 42 will be shut down and US 52 traffic diverted to the ramps.
https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR42
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 07, 2017, 10:10:19 AM
County Road 42 interchange gets under way this year. At least for now they're not doing an "almost cloverleaf" and the new local street under US 52 next to the railroad tracks. This got popup funding with the 2014 round of Met Council TAB grants. County 42 will be shut down and US 52 traffic diverted to the ramps.
https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR42
I find myself amused by the presence of the MN 56 shield on that map.
Took a nice day drive today. I have to say MN 30 is a fun alternative to MN 16 between Rushford and US 52 between the curves, grades, and hills, comparative lack of traffic, and not being as "safe" as MN 16 in terms of road condition (minimal shouldering and some fairly steep dropoffs when winding over some of the bluffs).
Wrote a short post on the 2015 "Bicycles on the Freeways" incidents.
https://northstarhighways.wordpress.com/all-articles/
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 24, 2017, 12:33:03 PM
Wrote a short post on the 2015 "Bicycles on the Freeways" incidents.
https://northstarhighways.wordpress.com/all-articles/
I'm actually going to comment on one of your other entries, which is the second one related to Bloomington's love of the four-lane undivided road. First, is that Normandale rebuild going to reconfigure it into a four-lane boulevard? And second, was there a problem with the city overbuilding its street grid and thus the city being stuck with these narrow four lane streets?
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 24, 2017, 12:33:03 PM
Wrote a short post on the 2015 "Bicycles on the Freeways" incidents.
https://northstarhighways.wordpress.com/all-articles/
Hmm. Not sure how I feel about bikes and freeways. On one hand, I'm quite used to seeing it around here. Cyclists may ride upon most non-major freeways in the Seattle area. But, it does seem like the speed differential could pose an issue (if an issue were to arise -- most drivers don't drive in the shoulder, but shit happens).
How does Minnesota view bikes? Here in Washington, they are legally viewed as cars, with the same rights. Bikes are allowed wherever cars are, barring specific restrictions.
Quote from: jakeroot on March 24, 2017, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 24, 2017, 12:33:03 PM
Wrote a short post on the 2015 "Bicycles on the Freeways" incidents.
https://northstarhighways.wordpress.com/all-articles/
Hmm. Not sure how I feel about bikes and freeways. On one hand, I'm quite used to seeing it around here. Cyclists may ride upon most non-major freeways in the Seattle area. But, it does seem like the speed differential could pose an issue (if an issue were to arise -- most drivers don't drive in the shoulder, but shit happens).
How does Minnesota view bikes? Here in Washington, they are legally viewed as cars, with the same rights. Bikes are allowed wherever cars are, barring specific restrictions.
Minnesota also views bikes as being equivalent to cars.
Bikes riding in the street/road are the equivalent of cars. Bikes riding on off-street paths or on sidewalks are the equivalent of pedestrians, but yield to actual pedestrians.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 24, 2017, 07:52:05 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 24, 2017, 12:33:03 PM
Wrote a short post on the 2015 "Bicycles on the Freeways" incidents.
https://northstarhighways.wordpress.com/all-articles/
I'm actually going to comment on one of your other entries, which is the second one related to Bloomington's love of the four-lane undivided road. First, is that Normandale rebuild going to reconfigure it into a four-lane boulevard? And second, was there a problem with the city overbuilding its street grid and thus the city being stuck with these narrow four lane streets?
Normandale they're adding a median and turn lanes.
Around the time the inner-ring suburbs were built, the trend was to build four lane undivided roads. Hennepin County did it, Bloomington did it. In most cases the anticipated traffic volumes never materialized. Both the county and the city acknowledge the problem and are trying to fix it when appropriate, in most cases three lanes will work fine but Normandale was an exception, as is 66th in Richfield where they went as far as to take out a row of houses to add a turn lane and cycletracks.
Quote from: jakeroot on March 24, 2017, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on March 24, 2017, 12:33:03 PM
Wrote a short post on the 2015 "Bicycles on the Freeways" incidents.
https://northstarhighways.wordpress.com/all-articles/
Hmm. Not sure how I feel about bikes and freeways. On one hand, I'm quite used to seeing it around here. Cyclists may ride upon most non-major freeways in the Seattle area. But, it does seem like the speed differential could pose an issue (if an issue were to arise -- most drivers don't drive in the shoulder, but shit happens).
How does Minnesota view bikes? Here in Washington, they are legally viewed as cars, with the same rights. Bikes are allowed wherever cars are, barring specific restrictions.
And the specific restrictions in Minnesota are to exclude them from freeways. Although it was illegal for her to be on the freeway and she would have passed a sign on the on-ramp stating such they gave the 14-year-old a warning rather than a citation.
Here's a summary of Minnesota laws:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.222
Of note:
* Bicycles have all of the rights and duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle except as noted below.
* Riding on a sidewalk is permitted except in a business district, but local ordinances can override this either way. Bloomington has a local ordinance allowing bicycles on any sidewalk. Carefully using the sidewalks has in fact been advocated by the city in the Oxboro business district.
* The commissioner of transportation may post a road as off-limits to bicycles. All the interstates are so posted. Other freeways usually are but this is inconsistent; US 52 has signs on some ramps but not others.
* Absent are any kinds of bicycle helmet laws for any age, and there's none on the municipal level either. The 14-year-old was wearing her riding helmet, (although a lot of good it probably would have done given typical freeway speeds). My own study showed usage from around 20% for women on Minneapolis streets to 90% for children along the Minneapolis parkways.
https://northstarhighways.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/bicycle-helmet-use-in-minneapolis-and-suburbs-2015-2016/
* A light is required at night. There is some thought among bicycle advocates that lights should be required for each bicycle sold, given how low compliance is.
Here's a direct link to the videos
https://youtu.be/x4_CZVU-vfo
https://youtu.be/zrGgJH5azC0
As MnDOT and the Met Council have received more requests for the locals to build interchanges within busy non-freeway corridors, they decided to study priorities for future intersection to interchange conversions. The results are out: https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Planning-2/Transit-Plans,-Studies-Reports/Highways-Roads/Principal-Arterial-Intersection-Conversion-Study.aspx
^ It should be noted that 7 of those sub-corridors are segments that had official freeway-conversion proposals within the past 2 decades.
That's one of the perks of the Twin Cities area I like when I was up there this past fall. Those in-between corridors that were up to freeway standards. Made for an easy drive from UofM and Chaska, MN
Quote from: froggie on April 06, 2017, 12:05:18 PM
^ It should be noted that 7 of those sub-corridors are segments that had official freeway-conversion proposals within the past 2 decades.
So then it looks like they might eventually make that cut. I'm especially drawn to the MN 65 and MN 252 ones, those upgrades would turn them into full freeways. How long before the rest of US 61 in Saint Paul and on southeastward gets the same treatment? Also, I'm kind of surprised that those intersections on MN 36 east of I-694 aren't higher priorities and that we might see the MN 77 freeway extended southward to at least County 42.
:nod:
Mike
QuoteHow long before the rest of US 61 in Saint Paul and on southeastward gets the same treatment? Also, I'm kind of surprised that those intersections on MN 36 east of I-694 aren't higher priorities and that we might see the MN 77 freeway extended southward to at least County 42.
None of the above. 61 and 36 just don't have the cross traffic to warrant major expense. And despite it being NHS, MnDOT has (to my knowledge) no interest in taking over jurisdiction of more of Cedar Ave.
Monte mentioned it again recently, but in addition to traffic volume concerns the city of Oak Park Heights also pushed back against any potential MN 36 interchanges within its limits because of the large amount of chain businesses that currently front those intersections.
I just found this today while searching for other Minnesota turnback information, and I don't think it's been posted here yet (it's from February 27):
https://www.senate.mn/departments/scr/billsumm/summary_display_from_db.php?ls=90&id=5043
Quote from: the most relevant parts
Section 6. Legislative Route No. 123 removed. Provides county turnback of Trunk Highway 112 (running from Le Sueur to Le Center) following an agreement between MnDOT and Le Sueur County.
Section 7. Legislative Route No. 225 removed. Provides a county turnback of Trunk Highway 225 (running from Ponsford to Trunk Highway 34 near Osage in Becker County) following an agreement between MnDOT and Becker County.
The bill proposes to eliminate MN-112, which I find to be an odd decision to make. It's a shortcut from MN-99 west to US-169 north, never mind that it's the perfectly logical route from Le Center to Le Sueur (duh) and then from there north on MN-93 to points on MN-19 west. Doesn't make sense to me. The only thing that would make sense to me is to eliminate MN-112 from the MN-93 junction to its north terminus, as I've always thought of it as a bit redundant. Then you could re-route 112 over MN-93 to US-169 and have it terminate there, which would remove the MN-93 concurrency with US-169.
The MN-225 elimination, however, is one that I actually can't believe hasn't been done years ago. One of the most useless Trunk Highways in the state.
Looks like I should try to make some time soon to drive up there and photograph those routes before they're gone.
Yet another edit:
The text of SF 1059 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/pages/doctypes/bills/text.php?number=SF1059&version=0&session=ls90&session_year=2017&session_number=0) also changes the description of LR 259 (MN-93) to end not at LR 123 (MN-112), but instead at "a point at or near Le Sueur." This implies to me that in addition, the short east-west segment of MN-93 will be turned back as well, and the concurrency with US-169 eliminated.
MN 112 being axed could be part of a broader effort to reduce district mileage, since the useless MN 66 was eliminated in the last year or so as well.
Yeah, it was. I tried to make a trip up there last year on July 30th to get some pictures of it before they began reconstructing it, but I was too late (not sure what I was thinking going that late into summer, but whatever). The old highway was all torn up. I did, however, find these still posted on US-169:
NB
(https://i.imgur.com/2e6XzRxm.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/2e6XzRx.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/umWlxjdm.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/umWlxjd.jpg)
SB
(https://i.imgur.com/0EOLLF5m.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/0EOLLF5.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/XnHzipym.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/XnHzipy.jpg)
So those were a bit of a consolation prize. The part of MN-66 that ran through Mankato was already posted with Blue Earth CR-1 markers.
Both routes (93 and 112) are listed on MnDOT's Jurisdictional Realignment Project report from 2014 as turnback candidates, so this doesn't surprise me. Sounds like MnDOT has come to preliminary agreement with Le Sueur County as to the turnbacks.
The language to change the Legislative Route description for MN 93 to an endpoint "at or near Le Sueur", and the lack of mention of Sibley County in the language, suggests that MnDOT and Sibley County haven't come to an agreement and that MN 93 will possibly end at the county line instead of at US 169.
Another intriguing part of that bill: elimination of L.R. 101. I guess they're finally starting to get around to eliminating concurrent legislative routes. In this case, L.R. 101 was originally added between Faribault and what is now the northwest corner of Lakeville, initially signed as MN 165, and then becoming a rerouted US 65 once it was paved in the 1950s. It's routing eventually became primarily I-35, I-35E, and a little bit of MN 21. As the route system is currently set up, L.R. 101 is completely concurrent with C.R. 21 and L.R. 390, so it can easily be removed.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
MN 112 being axed could be part of a broader effort to reduce district mileage, since the useless MN 66 was eliminated in the last year or so as well.
You just don't care at all about the people of Good Thunder, do you?
Quote from: froggie on April 13, 2017, 05:44:56 PM
The language to change the Legislative Route description for MN 93 to an endpoint "at or near Le Sueur", and the lack of mention of Sibley County in the language, suggests that MnDOT and Sibley County haven't come to an agreement and that MN 93 will possibly end at the county line instead of at US 169.
So it would run south from MN-19/Henderson, follow US-169 as it does, then turn east toward Le Sueur where it will suddenly end at the bridge, right before it enters town? That would be kind of silly, but also super amusing to see. Much like the ongoing MN-101 saga has been.
Quote from: froggie on April 13, 2017, 05:44:56 PM
Another intriguing part of that bill: elimination of L.R. 101. I guess they're finally starting to get around to eliminating concurrent legislative routes. In this case, L.R. 101 was originally added between Faribault and what is now the northwest corner of Lakeville, initially signed as MN 165, and then becoming a rerouted US 65 once it was paved in the 1950s. It's routing eventually became primarily I-35, I-35E, and a little bit of MN 21. As the route system is currently set up, L.R. 101 is completely concurrent with C.R. 21 and L.R. 390, so it can easily be removed.
Because I was unfamiliar with LR 101, I went to look at MnDOT's Legislative Route maps (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/roadway/data/data-products.html#CSSR), and found out that it's just not on there. They didn't even bother to label it, if the CR 21 and LR 390 routing is correct.
Quote from: MNHighwayManSo it would run south from MN-19/Henderson, follow US-169 as it does, then turn east toward Le Sueur where it will suddenly end at the bridge, right before it enters town? That would be kind of silly, but also super amusing to see. Much like the ongoing MN-101 saga has been.
It's even possible that MN 93 would retain its current southern terminus for the time being. It all depends on whatever turnback agreements MnDOT has come to with Sibley and Le Sueur Counties and the city of Le Sueur.
QuoteBecause I was unfamiliar with LR 101, I went to look at MnDOT's Legislative Route maps, and found out that it's just not on there. They didn't even bother to label it, if the CR 21 and LR 390 routing is correct.
It's correct. I got a downsized version of MnDOT's TIS database from them some years ago that includes L.R./C.R. designations, and L.R. 101 is completely concurrent with C.R. 21 and L.R. 390.
Quote from: froggie on April 13, 2017, 08:01:24 PM
It's even possible that MN 93 would retain its current southern terminus for the time being. It all depends on whatever turnback agreements MnDOT has come to with Sibley and Le Sueur Counties and the city of Le Sueur.
So what kind of time table are we looking at as far as turnback goes? I know I'm asking this question far too early for this specific case, but I'm not terribly familiar with the overall process itself. I guess the biggest question I have, is how long is it, generally, from when the statute is eliminated to when the signs come down? In the past I've only found out about turnbacks after they've been executed on the ground or maybe just before (MN-5 in Washington County was my lucky one, though it helped that that was around the time I started participating here - I wasn't so lucky for other recent ones, including MN-66, 227, and 235).
Or how does one typically find out about these? I stumbled upon that Senate File by complete accident. Is it really as mundane (and tedious) as just simply checking the legislature's website for transportation-related bills and stuff? MnDOT site? Or what?
My guess is it depends on a number of factors, but 1 to 2 years seems to be the average I've noticed. The MN 5 turnback was announced in spring 2015 with the signs coming down in December of that year. I think the DOT and Blue Earth County came to an agreement on MN 66 in fall 2014, but the signs only finally came down last fall.
Usually, but not always, the relevant MnDOT district will issue a press release about the impending jurisdictional change, but those are usually close to the turnover time.
Looking at Legislative Route changes in state legislation will give one an idea of what will eventually happen...i.e. what MnDOT is actively pursuing that requires changing an L.R. designation, but is unreliable when it comes to the timing. For example, removing the former MN 232's L.R. was done in 1996, but the route was only turned back about a year or so ago. As I mentioned above, it all depends on the agreements between MnDOT and the local jurisdictions and how long it takes those entities to come to those agreements, which often involves the local jurisdiction requesting (if not outright demanding) some sort of improvement to the roadway before they'll agree to take it over.
This past week was the week that MnDOT announced their 2017 construction season (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction/). As with last year (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg2139596#msg2139596) and previous years, here's a series of posts showing current and planned status of interchange, major highway, and major roundabout projects across Minnesota.
We'll start with a list of projects that were substantially completed last year:
MN 5 Mississippi River Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy5/) - Bridge redecking completed.
US 8/MN 95 near Taylors Falls (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy8/) - Reconstruction of the 8/95 concurrency is complete. The project included a roundabout at the western US 8/MN 95 junction.
US 14 from west of Nicollet to North Mankato - 4-laning of US 14, including a Nicollet bypass with an interchange at MN 111/CSAH 23, was completed in November.
MN 23 between Jasper and Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23passinglanes/index.html) - MnDOT built passing lanes in 10 locations along MN 23.
MN 25 in Buffalo (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/buffalo/) - Now substantially complete, this project rebuilt MN 25 on the north side of Buffalo, adding a roundabout at 8th St NW/CSAH 12, dual left turn lanes on all approaches at the MN 25/MN 55 intersection, nad widened MN 25 to 4 lanes for about a half mile north of MN 55.
MN 29 near I-94 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/alexi94hwy29/) in Alexandria - This project rebuilt the I-94/MN 29 interchange (moving the westbound ramps closer to the I-94 mainline to provide more space between them and 50th Ave W), built a new roundabout on MN 29 at CSAH 28/CR 87, and widened MN 29 to 4 lanes between the roundabout and I-94.
I-35E from I-94 to Little Canada Rd - This project rebuilt, widened, and slightly realigned I-35E, adding a MnPASS (HO/T) Lane in each direction, replaced the Cayuga Bridge on new alignment, added auxiliary lanes between I-94 and Maryland Ave (for a total of 10 lanes), and replaced the former 3/4 interchange at Pennsylvania Ave with a full folded-diamond interchange at Cayuga St.
I-35E from I-694 to north of County Rd J (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35vadnaisheights/) - This project, now largely complete, expanded upon the above I-35E project to extend the MnPASS Lanes on I-35E to north of I-694. The northbound MnPASS lane has a gap along the I-694 commons, but begins again north of I-694 and continues up to the Ramsey/Anoka County line at County Rd J. The southbound MnPASS lane begins at CSAH 96 and is continuous through the 694 commons to downtown St. Paul. The project also redecked the CSAH 96 bridge over I-35E.
MN 36 at Lexington Ave in Roseville - This project replaced the MN 36 bridges over Lexington Ave, which dated to 1938. MN 36 was also repaved in the vicinity.
US 52 at US 63/South Broadway (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy52-63-interchange/) in Rochester - Mainly a bridge redecking on the US 52 bridges over US 63, this project also revised the northbound 3rd lane on US 52 so that it began from the on-ramp loop from northbound 63 instead of from the on-ramp from South Broadway.
US 61/MN 97 in Forest Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy61and97/) - This project realigned the southern 61/97 junction and added roundabouts at both junctions.
US 63 at Olmsted CSAH 16 near the Rochester Airport - This project reconstructed the existing interchange with a wider CSAH 16 bridge over US 63 and added roundabouts at the ramp junctions.
US 75 near Kent (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/hwy75kent/) - This project relocated a US 75 railroad grade separation near Kent (south of Moorhead) to reduce persistent flooding closures.
I-90 Dresbach Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/dresbachbridge/index.html) - The project to replace the I-90 Mississippi River bridge (locally called the "Dresbach Brdige" is now substantially complete, with all lanes/ramps open. The rebuilt interchange at US 14/61 features direct ramps from WB 90 to SB 14/61 and NB 14/61 to WB 90 (the former was previously a 2-intersection indirect connection and the latter had an intersection). The Mississippi River Trail (USBR 45) is designed so as to avoid any mainline road crossings.
I-94 at US 75 in Moorhead (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/moorhead/index.html) - This project rebuilt the I-94/US 75 interchange as a diverging diamond, and also added auxiliary lanes along I-94 between US 75 and 20th St (east of US 75).
I-94 at 7th St in downtown Minneapolis (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94minneapolis/index.html) - This project relocated the westbound I-94 exit into downtown Minneapolis from 5th St to 7th St. An upcoming project will convert the old 5th St ramp bridge over I-35W into a bike/ped bridge.
MN 96 at Washington CSAH 15 (https://www.co.washington.mn.us/2021/Manning-Avenue-RehabCR12-to-TH96)/Manning Ave near Stillwater - This county-led project replaced the intersection with a roundabout.
MN 100 in St. Louis Park (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy100slp/) - This now-completed project reconstructed the last segment of MN 100 needing such, from south of MN 7 to approximately W 26th St. The project provided a continuous 6 lanes (3 per direction) on MN 100, replaced the ca. 1930s-era bridges over MN 100, reconstructed the MN 7 interchange into a 5-ramp par-clo (loops in the SW/SE quads and a direct SB 100 to WB 7 ramp), and rebuilt the CSAH 5/Minnetonka Blvd interchange into a standard cloverleaf. Additional auxiliary lanes were built as needed.
US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/floodmitigation/) - The final of 3 projects addressing flood mitigation in Nicollet County was completed last year. This project rebuilt segments of US 169 between Mankato and St. Peter to raise them above the 100 year floodplain elevation and reduce future river flooding closures of the highway.
US 169 in Belle Plaine - This "pop-up" project built an overpass over US 169 about 600ft southwest of Scott CSAH 3. Theoretically, the median crossing at CSAH 3 (which for years had been restricted to left turns off US 169 only) has been fully closed, but I cannot confirm that.
US 212 at Shady Oak Rd in Eden Prairie - This project rebuilt the interchange and added capacity on Shady Oak Rd, but left the basic diamond configuration intact.
MN 250 north of Lanesboro (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy250-bridge/index.html) - This project replaced two old overhead truss bridges north of Lanesboro. The bridges were replaced due to their narrowness and poor condition.
I-494 from I-394 to I-94 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494plymouth/) - This reconstruction finally finished last year. It widened I-494 to 3 lanes in each direction, plus a 4th auxiliary lane southbound from 94/694 to Bass Lake Rd.
MN 610 from I-94 to CSAH 81 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/610west/index.html) - The long-awaited extension of MN 610 to I-94 opened in December. The project effectively completes the MN 610 freeway across the northern suburbs. The extension completed an interchange at CSAH 81/CSAH 130, added an interchange at Maple Grove Pkwy, and added direct connections to/from I-94 West. Though proposed, connections from WB 94 to EB 610 and vice versa are not currently funded.
Ongoing 2017 construction (continued from previous years):
MN 4/MN 30 in St. James (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/hwy4stjames/) - Reconstruction of MN 4/MN 30 through St. James continues this year. The project includes two mini-roundabouts in downtown St. James.
MN 23 at Kandiyohi CSAH 5 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23kandi5/index.html) near Willmar - This project is building an overpass for CSAH 5 over MN 23, utilizing the existing grading/fill that was initially built with the Willmar bypass for a planned interchange. The existing roadway north of MN 23 will remain as the connector road between MN 23 and CSAH 5.
MN 23 in West Duluth (http://www.mndot.gov/d1/projects/Hwy23grand/) - Continuing reconstruction of MN 23 through West Duluth, from Becks Rd to I-35. Should wrap up this summer.
MN 24 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/hwy24/) - Completion of a new MN 24 Mississippi River Bridge (just downstream of the existing bridge) should wrap up this summer.
I-35W at County Road H (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/crhoveri35wardenhills/) in Arden Hills - Part of this project was built last year. It widens County Road H between I-35W and CSAH 10, removes the southbound on-ramp loop, adds a northbound off-ramp from I-35W that bridges under the WB 10-to-NB 35W ramp, and builds roundabouts at the ramp terminals.
MN 36 St. Croix River Crossing (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/stcroixcrossing/) - Continuing construction on the "Stillwater Bridge" replacement, as has been documented in another thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5160.0) by Monte Castleman. MN 36 traffic is now using both of the west ramps at the future 36/95 interchange, and closing the gap on the bridge deck was completed 2 months ago.
MN 43 Winona Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/winonabridge/index.html) - The initial plan for this multi-year project involved expanding the MN 43 river crossing by building a brand new bridge for southbound traffic and then rehabilitating the existing bridge for northbound traffic. The new bridge opened up at the end of last summer, but costs for rehabilitating the existing bridge jumped by $30 million and so the "pause button" was hit. MnDOT announced in February (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/newsrels/17/02/1-winonabridgerehabilitation.html) a preferred alternative for the rehabilitation of the existing bridge, but additional study is needed to see if it still falls within FHWA's record of decision or if additional study is needed....this being because the existing bridge is eligible for the National Register of Historic Places. So, for now, traffic is 2-lane/2-way on the new bridge.
US 52 at Dakota CSAH 86 (https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/CurrentConstruction/CR86/Pages/default.aspx) near Cannon Falls - To be wrapped up this summer, this project is building an interchange on US 52 at Dakota CSAH 86. The layout will be a folded-diamond interchange with on-ramp loops.
US 53 relocation near Virginia (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy53relocation/) - This project relocates US 53 on the south side of Virginia so that the adjacent mining company (which owns the land underneath existing US 53) can expand its mine. US 53 is being relocated to the northeast, including a 1,100ft long bridge over the Rocheleau Pit that will become the tallest bridge in the state. The project replaces the existing half-interchange at 2nd St with an intersection, but adds a diamond interchange at MN 135 to replace the existing 53/135 interchange. The bridge is expected to open to traffic by the end of this year.
MN 77 at Cedar Grove (just south of MN 13) - Not a highway project per se but a transit project that impacts the MN 77 freeway. This project is building an in-line BRT station in the median of MN 77 at Cedar Grove, just south of MN 13. The roadway configuration is similar to that of the 46th St BRT station along I-35W in Minneapolis.
I-94 in East St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94stpaul/index.html) - Primarily a pavement reconstruction project extending out to MN 120, this project includes building an auxiliary lane between downtown and Mounds Blvd, so that upon completion, there will be at least 4 lanes along eastbound I-94 from the 11th St on-ramp downtown out to US 10/61 South.
US 169 from MN 62 to MN 55 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169hopkins/index.html) - A number of projects were combined into one, with the biggest impact this year. US 169 is currently completely shut down between Bren Rd and Lincoln Dr in order to replace the bridge over Nine Mile Creek (north of MN 62) in a single year. The road is expected to be closed until this fall. Other smaller elements of this project include road/ramp resurfacing and permanently closing the southbound ramps at 16th St (just south of I-394).
US 169 east of Bovey (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy169-cross-range/) - This project extends the 4-lane section of US 169 on the Iron Range another 1.5 miles, from the Bovey bypass to just east of Itasca CSAH 7.
MN 210 through Jay Cooke State Park (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy210future/index.html) - This project, which should wrap up this fall, is rebuilding a section of MN 210 through the park (which is between Carlton and West Duluth) that was washed out during a severe flood in 2012.
MN 371 between Nisswa and Jenkins (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/hwy371/) - This project, which should wrap up this fall, is widening MN 371 to 4 lanes from Nissway to Crow Wing CSAH 16. The project includes a bypass of Pequot Lakes and a diamond interchange with roundabouts at Crow Wing CSAH 11.
I-694 between Arden Hills and Shoreview (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/enhance694/index.html) - This project is reconstructing I-694 and adding a 3rd lane in each direction between Lexington Ave and Rice St, which will result in a continuous 3 lanes in each direction between US 10 West and I-35E. The project should wrap up this year.
New construction for 2017:
MN 1/MN 169 near Eagles Nest Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy169eagles/) - This project was slated for 2016 but got bumped to this year. It will fully reconstruct MN 1/169 in the Eagles Nest Lake area between Tower and Ely, with about half of it on new alignment south of the existing alignment.
US 2 over the Red River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/kennedybridge/index.html) in East Grand Forks - The "Kennedy Bridge" will be redecked this year and into next year. MnDOT and NDDOT opted to go this route as part of a bridge rehabilitation instead of building a brand new bride.
MN 7/US 71 south of Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy7hwy71roundabout/) - The existing rural traffic signal will be replaced with a roundabout this summer.
US 14/MN 15 in New Ulm (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/14newulmtonmankato/) - Called the "New Ulm Gateway Project", this project involves several items. It will raise US 14 and MN 15 out of the 100 year floodplain. It will replace the existing bridges over the Minnesota River and Front St/UP RR with 2-lane structures that can be expanded to 4 lanes in the future. 7th N St will be reconstructed as a 2-lane divided section with left turn lanes between N Broadway (MN 15/68) and the Front St bridge. The folded-diamond interchange at Front St will be replaced with a one-quadrant access road with a roundabout on US 14/MN 15. The US 14/MN 15/CSAH 21 junction will be replaced with a diamond interchange along MN 15 with dumbbells at the ramp junctions. A free-right will be provided for eastbound US 14 through traffic to avoid the dumbbell and the intersection at CSAH 21 South.
I-35W in south Minneapolis (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wminneapolis/) - This huge, 5-year project will reconstruct I-35W between 42nd St and I-94, replacing several bridges and with several reconfigurations. The MnPASS lanes on I-35W will be extended on both sides to 26th St (the existing northbound dynamic shoulder would become a full MnPASS lane). A median transit station will be built at Lake St. Two new ramps are added: a northbound off-ramp to 28th St, and a southbound off-ramp to Lake St. The flyover from northbound 35W to westbound 94 would be relocated to enter westbound 94 on the left instead of on the right (most ramp traffic stays on 94, and so it'll reduce the weave situation between 35W and Hennepin/Lyndale). Also, the existing 35W flyover near 24th wouldb e replaced with a fy-under north of Franklin, with southbound 35W merging on the right instead of on the left.
US 52 at MN 58 in Zumbrota (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy58-bridge/index.html) - This project will replace the MN 58 bridge over US 52 and add roundabouts at the ramp junctions.
US 52 between Cannon Falls and Coates (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy52coates/index.html) - MnDOT plans to convert several intersections on US 52 to Reduced-Conflict Intersections (RCI) this year.
US 59 at Becker CSAH 22 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/hwy59roundabout/index.html) south of Detroit Lakes - MnDOT will build a roundabout at US 59/CSAH 22 this year, replacing the current 4-way stop sign.
MN 60 between Windom and Mountain Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/hwy60stjames/) - The last needed segment in a larger 4-lane corridor from the Twin Cities to Sioux City, IA, this project will widen MN 60 to 4-lanes between Windom and Mountain Lake.
US 63 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/redwing-bridge/) in Red Wing - Scheduled to begin this year and last 3 years, the US 63 bridges over US 61 and the Mississippi River will be replaced. The bridges will be 2-lane spans for now, but with a design that would allow for 4 lanes in the future. US 63 will also be relocated out of downtown Red Wing, meeting US 61 directly just east of the overpass.
MN 73 at Carlton CSAH 10 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Moose-Lake-Area-Project/index.html) in Moose Lake - Part of a series of other improvements around Moose Lake, a roundabout will be built at MN 73/CSAH 10 this year.
MN 73 at St. Louis CSAH 5 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy73chisholm/index.html) in Chisholm - St. Louis County is leading a project to realign CSAH 5 and build a roundabout where it meets MN 73, just north of US 169.
MN 149 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy149highbridge/index.html) in St. Paul - Redecking of the Smith Ave "High Bridge" is planned to begin later this year and continue into 2018.
US 169 at Red Oak Dr/Southgate Dr (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/aitkin/) in Aitkin - A roundabout will be built at this intersection in southern Aitkin this year.
US 169 at MN 37 in Hibbing (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy-169-Hwy-37-Roundabout/index.html) - A multilane roundabout is planned for this junction for this year.
Lastly, here are some upcoming/future projects (including some unfunded projects):
MN 3 at Dakota CSAH 26 (https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR26-Hwy3/Pages/default.aspx) in Inver Grove Heights - Dakota County is leading a project to replace this intersection with a roundabout in 2018.
US 10 in Wadena (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/wadena/) - Now pushed to 2019, this project will reconstruct an 8-block leg of US 10 through Wadena. The reconstruction will accommodate a future potential 4-lane cross-section for US 10.
US 12 near Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/willmarwye/index.html) - Though this one is primarily a rail project, I'm including it here because it would realign part of US 12 west of Willmar. The main project proposes building a new wye rail connection between the BNSF Morris and Marshall Subdivisions, in order to reduce the number of trains reversing through downtown Willmar. The planned alignment of the wye is parallel to and just east of CSAH 55. MN 40 would be bridged over the wye, and about 2 miles of US 12 (from 7th Ave NW to 28th St SW) would also be relocated so it could also bridge over the wye.
US 14 between Owatonna and Dodge Center (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy14/) - This long-standing project is currently unfunded, but would fill the last gap in a 4-lane US 14 between Mankato and Rochester. The approved plan is for a freeway-grade facility being located parallel and just south of the DM&E tracks. The Steele CSAH 43 intersection would be upgraded to an interchange, and new interchanges would be built at Dodge CSAH 3 and a relocated MN 56 (that would also tie into CSAH 5).
MN 29/MN 55 near Glenwood (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/glenwoodoverpass/) - Not currently funded, the plan is to replace the existing at-grade intersection with a bridge on MN 29 over both MN 55 and the adjacent Canadian Pacific tracks. An improved 160th St would make the connection between thet wo routes.
I-35/I-535/US 53 in Duluth (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/twin-ports-interchange/index.html) - This project would fully reconstruct the I-35/I-535/US 53 "Can of Worms" interchange in Duluth, which has several deficient bridges. The design would change considerably, though. Full freeway-to-freeway movements are retained between I-35 and I-535, with all left exits being eliminated from I-35 and replaced with right-side exits. Access between northbound I-35 and US 53 will be reconfigured into a set of regular diamond ramps with a traffic signal. The ramps from southbound I-35 to northbound US 53 and to West 27th Ave will also be reconfigured into a single exit...traffic from I-535 and US 53 would no longer be able to directly access West 27th. MnDOT applied for a FASTLANE grant last year but was turned down.
I-35W over the Minnesota River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wbloomington/index.html) - MnDOT anticipates replacing the I-35W bridge over the Minnesota River beginning in 2020. The project would separate northbound and southbound onto separate bridges (shifted slightly east compared to the existing bridge) and add a bike/ped path. The interchange at Black Dog Rd would remain and be reconstructed. The new bridge would carry 8 lanes (6 through lanes plus 2 MnPASS lanes).
I-35W/I-494 in Bloomington (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494and35winterchange/index.html) - Arguably the most congested interchange in the state now, reconstructing the 35W/494 interchange is seen as a high priority but an expensive endeavor. A turbine-style interchange (except retaining a loop ramp for SB 35W to EB 494) is favored. Officials are trying to find funding to build the first phase of the project, which would add a 2-lane turbine ramp for NB 35W to WB 494 traffic. I've seen the cost estimate for that range anywhere from $35 million to $85 million.
MN 36 in North St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy36study/index.html) - As part of the vision to complete a MN 36 freeway between I-35W and I-694, the last two at-grade intersections (at MN 120 and Hadley Ave) would be converted to interchanges. Interchange designs are still TBD, though the Hadley interchange is fully funded for 2019 construction and the likely scenario is a folded-diamond to the west.
US 71 at Hubbard CSAH 15 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/hwy71-parkrapids/index.html) in Park Rapids - Intersection reconstruction is planned for 2018, with a roundabout being the likely solution.
MN 72 at the Rainy River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/baudette-bridge/index.html) in Baudette - This 2018 project will replace the International bridge connecting MN 72 to ON 11. The preferred plan will build a new bridge just upstream (east) of the existing bridge.
US 169 at MN 41/CSAH 78 and at Scott CSAH 14 (https://www.scottcountymn.gov/608/US-169-TH-41CH-78-Interchange-Design-Pro) - This is a county-led (and primarily funded) project to add an interchange on US 169 at MN 41/CSAH 78 and an overpass in the vicinity of CSAH 14. Combined with construction of planned frontage roads, this would bring the freeway section on US 169 south to CSAH 14, where the intersection will be converted to RIRO on each side. Construction is planned for 2018. The interchange at MN 41 is planned to be a diverging diamond.
I-694 at Ramsey CSAH 49 (http://www.sehinc.com/online/rice694)/Rice St - Reconstruction and upgrading of this interchange has been a high priority for Ramsey County for years, but has been stymied by lack of funding commitment. The county is looking again at alternatives, including roundabouts and/or a modified single-point interchange similar to what was recently built at MN 36 and Rice St.
I don't understand why turning the new 94/610 interchange into a full movement is even being considered, unless FHWA is on their case about it. Saying that's going back the same way you came isn't an exaggeration in the least in this case, as 94 and 610 share 5 interchanges and 7 total crossings with the same roads. It's a waste of money MNDOT doesn't have.
The pieces of the US 169 bridge
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2907/33925993422_b8bc0885eb.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TFVzT5)IMG_0535 (https://flic.kr/p/TFVzT5) by North Star Highways (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
Quote from: froggie on April 15, 2017, 09:43:43 PM
I-35W in south Minneapolis (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wminneapolis/) - This huge, 5-year project will reconstruct I-35W between 42nd St and I-94, replacing several bridges and with several reconfigurations. The MnPASS lanes on I-35W will be extended on both sides to 26th St (the existing northbound dynamic shoulder would become a full MnPASS lane). A median transit station will be built at Lake St. Two new ramps are added: a northbound off-ramp to 28th St, and a southbound off-ramp to Lake St. The flyover from northbound 35W to westbound 94 would be relocated to enter westbound 94 on the left instead of on the right (most ramp traffic stays on 94, and so it'll reduce the weave situation between 35W and Hennepin/Lyndale). Also, the existing 35W flyover near 24th wouldb e replaced with a fy-under north of Franklin, with southbound 35W merging on the right instead of on the left.
This will be such a mess for a long time, and hopefully worth it. I'm surprised they're keeping the current ramp configuration with the messy merge between the 31st/Lake ramps and the 35th/36th ramps.
Needed another ~$30 million to fix that, and the project was already short on funding.
Quote from: froggie on April 15, 2017, 09:44:24 PM
Lastly, here are some upcoming/future projects (including some unfunded projects):
I-35W/I-494 in Bloomington (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494and35winterchange/index.html) - Arguably the most congested interchange in the state now, reconstructing the 35W/494 interchange is seen as a high priority but an expensive endeavor. A turbine-style interchange (except retaining a loop ramp for SB 35W to EB 494) is favored. Officials are trying to find funding to build the first phase of the project, which would add a 2-lane turbine ramp for NB 35W to WB 494 traffic. I've seen the cost estimate for that range anywhere from $35 million to $85 million.
I am just astounded that this project has languished for this length of time. This should have been designed, funded and begun before I moved away from the Cities in 2002. I know the design has gone through a couple of iterations, and the turbine design sounds good to me, but this is such a deficient interchange that I just can't believe it's taken this long. And, apparently, longer because the money still isn't there.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on April 20, 2017, 11:12:19 PM
Quote from: froggie on April 15, 2017, 09:44:24 PM
Lastly, here are some upcoming/future projects (including some unfunded projects):
I-35W/I-494 in Bloomington (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494and35winterchange/index.html) - Arguably the most congested interchange in the state now, reconstructing the 35W/494 interchange is seen as a high priority but an expensive endeavor. A turbine-style interchange (except retaining a loop ramp for SB 35W to EB 494) is favored. Officials are trying to find funding to build the first phase of the project, which would add a 2-lane turbine ramp for NB 35W to WB 494 traffic. I've seen the cost estimate for that range anywhere from $35 million to $85 million.
I am just astounded that this project has languished for this length of time. This should have been designed, funded and begun before I moved away from the Cities in 2002. I know the design has gone through a couple of iterations, and the turbine design sounds good to me, but this is such a deficient interchange that I just can't believe it's taken this long. And, apparently, longer because the money still isn't there.
You'd think such a deficient and nowadays "dangerous" configuration given the growth and traffic, it wasn't put as a #1 priority on both the local and national level
^ At the time, the Crosstown Commons (I-35W/MN 62) was a far higher priority. Since then, bridge replacement and pavement reconstruction needs have generally driven where upgrades have taken place.
Regarding ET21's comment....the last time I checked, transportation funding at the Federal level wasn't doing all that great, either...
Now that I have officially clinched it, I really have to know why MN 105 was ever in the highway system and why it remains in the highway system.
^ The latter is, AFAIK, because MnDOT hasn't approached Mower County yet about turning it back...probably because MnDOT doesn't have much in the way of turnback funds. This is despite it being a long-time turnback candidate.
No idea why it was added to the system to begin with...my first guess would be an influential local legislator back in the '30s? (MN 105 was authorized in 1933 as part of the first wave of Legislative Routes).
Quote from: froggie on May 06, 2017, 07:58:34 AM
^ The latter is, AFAIK, because MnDOT hasn't approached Mower County yet about turning it back...probably because MnDOT doesn't have much in the way of turnback funds. This is despite it being a long-time turnback candidate.
The legislative route is still in the books, though, isn't it? (Just checked, it is.) Can MnDOT request that the legislature eliminate one of its routes?
Personal anecdote: I drove MN-105 once during one of my many Des Moines–Twin Cities trips (as a way to ease the dullness of taking I-35
every single time) and thought it was a rather interesting route, albeit a useless one (wish I'd been in my major highway picture taking phase back then–since I wasn't, I would rather like to go back sometime before it really does get eliminated.)
Yes, the L.R. for MN 105 is still on the books.
MnDOT does request legislative route eliminations as part of the turnback process, if the legislative route in question cannot be rerouted onto other state highways. This year's legislative "MnDOT Housekeeping Bill" proposes removal of L.R.'s 101, 123, and 225. Which means we're about to see MN 112 and MN 225 go away.
Keep in mind, though, that the state's Municipal Consent law requires MnDOT to enter into an agreement with the jurisdictions receiving the former state route before it can be turned back. In point of fact, the language behind the removal of L.R. 123 and L.R. 225 stipulates that it isn't official until MnDOT has received the final turnback correspondence from the respective counties. For another example, MnDOT has been slow to turn back MN 101 through Carver County because the county has insisted on considerable (and expensive) upgrades before they've agreed to take over the roadway. Recently, this has included the brand-new and lengthy 4-lane bridge across the Minnesota River floodplain, the roundabout where it meets old US 212 (now Carver CSAH 61), and ongoing realignment and 4-laning of Great Plains Blvd (between old 212 and MN 5).
L.R. 101 is an interesting beast. Originally created for a more direct route between Faribault and Burnsville (at the time, US 65 followed today's MN 3 corridor through Northfield to Farmington), it has been entirely subsumed by C.R. 21 and L.R. 390 (MN 21 and I-35 respectively). This is the first case I know of where MnDOT has proposed elimination of a Legislative Route that is completely concurrent with other Legislative Routes or Constitutional Routes.
Since I'm not sure anyone else here has shared them yet, here is one of Minnesota's first three (and only as of yet) APL signs:
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18425371_720268521491099_6086389412811633367_n.jpg?oh=4881d5ff4d3fa3c1e871305b49944f7d&oe=597AAB80)
I see the second one in the background (just above-right of the red van). Where's the third?
Quote from: froggie on May 10, 2017, 07:02:51 AM
I see the second one in the background (just above-right of the red van). Where's the third?
It's about 1/3 of a mile behind the one in the above picture. That one adds a "1 MILE" notice on the I-94 West panel.
Is there an END I-494/I-494 ENDS sign anywhere, or does this new sign layout omit that?
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on May 10, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
Is there an END I-494/I-494 ENDS sign anywhere, or does this new sign layout omit that?
There's an END 494 - JCT 94/694 1 1/4 MILES sign posted on the Bass Lake Road overpass that's been there for as long as I can remember. There's not a new END shield or anything, unfortunately.
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18342227_720268931491058_1573991531295901627_n.jpg?oh=b41fa119c6720e09cd783e1cf0e0da3f&oe=59B44548)
Ah, okay. I couldn't remember if there was one previously, so I was just wondering if any old one remained or whether a new one was put in place. Thanks.
I don't recall there ever being an END sign at the Fish Lake Interchange before. Just the advance sign that Patrick posted that's been there for decades.
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2017, 10:25:26 AM
I don't recall there ever being an END sign at the Fish Lake Interchange before. Just the advance sign that Patrick posted that's been there for decades.
This post confused me, because my name happens to be Patrick as well. What're the chances, you suppose? :biggrin:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on May 11, 2017, 02:30:55 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2017, 10:25:26 AM
I don't recall there ever being an END sign at the Fish Lake Interchange before. Just the advance sign that Patrick posted that's been there for decades.
This post confused me, because my name happens to be Patrick as well. What're the chances, you suppose? :biggrin:
And both with "HighwayMan" in your names, and both with Minnesota route shields... I too was briefly confused in glancing back up the thread.
http://kstp.com/traffic/minnesota-department-of-transportation-close-i35-bloomington-burnsville-replace-86th-street-bridge/4532286/?cat=12196
How many trucks does it take to damage a bridge? :eyebrow: :banghead:
One truck to damage two bridges- the same truck hit the 82nd St bridge.
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 04, 2017, 12:03:52 PM
http://kstp.com/traffic/minnesota-department-of-transportation-close-i35-bloomington-burnsville-replace-86th-street-bridge/4532286/?cat=12196
From the article,
"
The problem is the bridge is tall but it's not tall enough."
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcs5.pikabu.ru%2Fimages%2Fpreviews_comm%2F2015-02_1%2F14228826159841.png&hash=56b74a6c937ced2424e1dfafe5ab7b9d225888df)
That stretch of I-35W opened in 1959...there were lower bridge clearance standards back then.
I confirmed this morning that there is still one US 61 shield remaining in Lake County. It's on the MN 1 mileage sign leaving Ely. Appears that sign has yet to be replaced/patched since 1990 and not an error.
A Minneapolis associate of mine just sent me a photo of that sign...the photo's apparently been floating around the Facebooks.
And may not be there much longer because some fuckhead has now reported it to MnDOT.
To be fair, that sign should have been replaced years ago. Besides the likely age and condition of the sign, sign accuracy is more important to the driving public than some whiff of nostalgia for a few roadgeeks.
Though I'll be the first to agree that MnDOT should have just kept it as US 61 and included a "hidden concurrency" along I-35 much as what's done along I-94 with US 12 and US 52. My Minneapolis associate said the same thing to me when he showed me the photo.
I went to check out the MN 371 Nisswa/Pequot Lakes work. The Pequot Lakes bypass is now fully open along with the CR 11 interchange, but there's still a lot of remaining work on the Nisswa section. Overall it's a nice looking route.
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20246029_761301740721110_2142441431835670384_n.jpg?oh=3cc15351ea3f0d87a792ab6615348d76&oe=5A0ACE8F)
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15781081_761301974054420_5776061998491075069_n.jpg?oh=7b62ed48f431559e968327cfcc0058e2&oe=5A039DF8)
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20139708_761301947387756_6943692401679538515_n.jpg?oh=3b77c3717466437e4c33da5e7abed743&oe=59FE6FA1)
On my way back from Duluth and I must've briefly passed through a time warp back to 2007, because I saw this on SB I-35. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3osWYLR.jpg&hash=a273ed25782e3aebce9f71887f1c4041fd2bc7d7)
Contractor error on a replacement sign?
Edit to replace hasty gas station upload with straightened and cropped version of picture.
Probably thought it was a replace-in-kind...
I thought that sign had already been replaced once in the last few years...
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 21, 2017, 05:35:40 PM
I thought that sign had already been replaced once in the last few years...
I wouldn't doubt that they have. The other three signs are correct, just not that one.
Edit: The latest GSV (https://goo.gl/maps/PFuQCAJqXjr) for the spot shows a correct sign. I have to wonder how this came to be.
The new MN 24 Mississippi River bridge in Clearwater will open tomorrow, a couple months ahead of schedule.
http://www.sctimes.com/story/news/local/2017/08/16/clearwater-officials-celebrate-highway-24-bridge-opening/569601001/
As an amusing side note you can easily tell the MN 24 shield they used at the dedication ceremony was a patch job, making me wonder if there's a special "dedication shield" that gets reused at all sorts of dedication ceremonies in Minnesota :sombrero:
The MN-24 marker reminds me of a lot of patch jobs you'll see in use on detour signage and the like. (Except it's in way too good of condition to be one of those. :))
Has anyone else noticed that MN-298 has been truncated to end at the Academy for the Blind? I was browsing the route in GSV and noticed this. (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.2870766,-93.2587404,3a,41y,152.81h,92.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-YcdAefutBlyl0WaZ6GvsA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) The latest logpoint confirms that the academy loop is now the southern endpoint of the route, while the previous August 2014 version still lists the full route that ended at the prison fence.
Edit: I guess this is kind of old news, as I did some reading and found that legislation in 2013 amended the definition of LR 298 to end at the loop (LR 323).
Field-checked it when I was home last month and updated TM (and OpenStreetMap) with the results.
MN 51 now has a proper standalone end shield at its north terminus rather than the old "JCT I-694/END MN 51 1/2 MILE" advance signs that had been there for decades. I missed the photo of it, unfortunately. Will try again when I go back to the state fair a second time.
MN 61 was closed through much of Cook County last night after a truck irreparably damaged one of the inactive railroad bridges in Taconite Harbor. The bridge has been torn down. Much of the urgency was due to the detour following a lot of gravel roads and the holiday traffic surge.
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/4321087-update-highway-61-reopened
Quote from: Mdcastle on January 01, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
Just three randon things I noticed:
1) A square County 25 shield on the new exit ramp off MN 100
2) A Flashing Yellow Arrow U-Turn Signal on MN 7
3) Business Loop 169 is on the new BGSes at the Shakopee Bypass.
I drove on 169 today for what seems like the first time in a long time, and noticed the BL 169 shields. It's also marked at the intersection with CSAH 101 in downtown Shakopee. Has this always been a BL, or is this a new addition?
Quote from: bschultzy on September 01, 2017, 01:56:15 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on January 01, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
Just three randon things I noticed:
1) A square County 25 shield on the new exit ramp off MN 100
2) A Flashing Yellow Arrow U-Turn Signal on MN 7
3) Business Loop 169 is on the new BGSes at the Shakopee Bypass.
I drove on 169 today for what seems like the first time in a long time, and noticed the BL 169 shields. It's also marked at the intersection with CSAH 101 in downtown Shakopee. Has this always been a BL, or is this a new addition?
It's a new addition. Officially created in 2015 I think but only signed recently.
The five-year closure of MN 210 in Jay Cooke State Park is over, and the road is fully open through the park to MN 23 on Duluth's southwest side.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 20, 2017, 10:52:24 PM
I went to check out the MN 371 Nisswa/Pequot Lakes work. The Pequot Lakes bypass is now fully open along with the CR 11 interchange, but there's still a lot of remaining work on the Nisswa section. Overall it's a nice looking route.
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15781081_761301974054420_5776061998491075069_n.jpg?oh=7b62ed48f431559e968327cfcc0058e2&oe=5A039DF8)
Well, it looks like I need to plan a 2018 trip now. My paternal grandfather's family has a condo on Pelican Lake in Breezy Point, and it's been a few years (ok, 13) since I was there last.
MnDOT has put out a request for qualification for design-build for the replacement of the 35W Minnesota River bridge with Construction starting in mid-2018:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/designbuild/i35w-mn-river-bridge/index.html
It's going to be a fun commute for those going from Burnsville, Lakeville, Savage, etc to downtown Minneapolis for the next few years. Glad that is not my route :bigass:
As a longtime fan of MnDOT signing, I have been exploring what is available through the brand-new eDIGS interface to MnDOT's eDocs EDMS.
http://dotapp7.dot.state.mn.us/eDIGS_guest/DMResultSet/ContentSearch
Part of the motivation for checking this out is loss of backdoor access, last June, to full construction plans sets for advertised projects through MnDOT's current planroom contractor, Franz Reprographics. They used to offer what they called a "Hi-Res Java Viewer" that was basically a Java applet that downloaded the entire actual plans set to your hard drive so it could be viewed locally (in the browser) using the applet itself instead of a PDF plugin with a save button. In June, however, they disabled it, so download calls resulted in HTTP 404 errors, and now their website has been scrubbed to remove all references to the viewer.
In the absence of access through the planroom contractor, one alternative is the EDMS, crossing fingers that the folks in the records department upload them promptly after letting. My experience in this regard has been fairly uneven and I have also found that the gap between successive uploads seems to be wider than the gap between consecutive lettings.
What I would like to see now is some lobbying effort to persuade MnDOT to make letting plans available free to the public at the time of advertising, as is already the norm in all of the surrounding states (ND, SD, IA, WI) and in all of the states that surround the surrounding states except WY and MN itself (MT, NE, MO, IL, and MI).
But anyway! Back to eDIGS . . .
While I was playing with content search on the site (tree search and profile search are also available), I discovered that a simple search for {signs} (no braces) returns 1178 traffic work orders among the results.
Each traffic work order, which can be issued by any MnDOT district, concerns installation and removal of traffic appliances (including signs) by maintenance forces and often includes pattern-accurate sign panel detail sheets for any new signs to be installed. The TWOs retrieved by this search span a time period reaching back from about 2015 to at least the mid-1980's. The vast majority are from District 6 (captions beginning WO-YY-6A or WO-YY-6B, where YY is the final two digits of the year; A and B are apparently subdistricts of District 6), which covers Rochester and the surrounding area. (I am now trying to figure out how to access TWOs from the other districts.) Most of the TWOs are for installation of specific services signs (addressed in federal MUTCD Chapter 2J, though MnDOT's preferred designs for these signs resemble the tourist-oriented directional signs shown in Chapter 2K), but quite a few are for message revisions on green-background guide signs, signing for state parks (including an almost-unique bicycles-only campground at one state park that was unfindable by most bicyclists without a wasted trip up and down a steep hill), and signing for at least one casino (Treasure Island).
The longest TWO at 157 pages, which ultimately didn't result in signs being erected, concerned a RV resort that wanted "Camping" signing at the I-35/TH 30 interchange near Ellendale. From this I learned that in Minnesota at least, "Camping" signs are reserved for campgrounds that allow tents and have modern sanitary facilities such as hot showers and flush toilets. This is useful information given the increasing prevalence of RV-only campgrounds and the fact that surge pricing even at cheap motels can run to over $100 per night. (The RV resort in question, besides banning tents altogether, was open only to over-50s and banned all RVs over 10 years old.)
I don't yet have a hard page count for the pattern-accurate sign details in this wedge of 1178 TWOs, but they run to 6286 pages and so far have been running at about 10 sign detail pages per 100, so I'm guessing around 630.
Another incident with a raised dump truck results in "extensive" damage to the northbound I-35 bridge over MN 45 outside Cloquet.
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/4341337-lane-i-35-closed-scanlon-after-truck-hits-bridge
I was surprised to find this new interchange on my trip to Saint Cloud last weekend. Google Maps knows nothing about it, and I was expecting a stop sign. Almost missed my turn, coming north on CR-5.
Kandiyohi County Road 5 bridge overpass at Hwy 23 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23kandi5/)
Overall, I was very impressed with MN-23 from Willmar to Saint Cloud.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 08, 2017, 03:43:55 PM
a longtime fan of MnDOT signing,
They have more than adequate signage, and it's mostly consistent. They do use text in some situations where I think symbols would be better, but that's a matter of preference. There are also a LOT of
[JCT ## →] signs where the JCT should be removed. The
[BYPASS LANE] signs are super awesome.
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 04:44:43 PMI was surprised to find this new interchange on my trip to Saint Cloud last weekend. Google Maps knows nothing about it, and I was expecting a stop sign. Almost missed my turn, coming north on CR-5.
Kandiyohi County Road 5 bridge overpass at Hwy 23 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23kandi5/)
Overall, I was very impressed with MN-23 from Willmar to Saint Cloud.
You were benefiting from construction of the Paynesville Bypass (finished around 2012) as well as four-laning upgrades in the early noughties. MnDOT classifies this length of TH 23 as a MPIRC (medium-priority interregional corridor), which means you are supposed to be able to average 55 mph or better even with traffic signals. I like this part of TH 23: it is the part through St. Cloud itself I cannot stand.
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 04:49:08 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on October 08, 2017, 03:43:55 PM. . . a longtime fan of MnDOT signing . . .
They have more than adequate signage, and it's mostly consistent. They do use text in some situations where I think symbols would be better, but that's a matter of preference. There are also a LOT of [JCT ## →] signs where the JCT should be removed. The [BYPASS LANE] signs are super awesome.
I like the bypass lane signing too, though I am less keen on turn lanes that feel like they should be bypass lanes instead, an issue that crops up every so often in Minnesota in general (including in at least one of the District 6 TWOs I went through) and came into play a time or two when I followed TH 23 from St. Cloud to I-35 on a summer Friday in 2016. The experience has left me with more respect for KDOT's basic approach of laying down enough pavement for right-turn lane, through lane, and left-turn lane, the turn lanes being long enough to allow coastdown followed by gentle braking to safe turning speed.
Where MnDOT signing really shines through is in two main areas. For decades, MnDOT has been really consistent about using Series E Modified for all mixed-case legend, which results in signs that are quite easy to read even with letter sizes at
MUTCD minima (which IMO are too low for high-speed conventional roads in rural areas). It is only in the past few years that standards have loosened to allow Series D on construction signs and in some urban applications, a change I disagree with but which fortunately is well-limited. At signals and important flat intersections, MnDOT is also quite good about using green-background guide signs where other states would try to get away with sign salad.
And in urban areas, particularly the Twin Cities, MnDOT is quite scrupulous about maintaining continuity of signing. If you find a trailblazer for, say, an Interstate highway, and then follow it, you can count on finding trailblazers every step of the way until you are actually on the Interstate in your desired direction, which is at best a crapshoot in most other states. This is especially helpful with the thickets of restricted-access interchanges in downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul.
The main variations I have seen in signing across Minnesota are at the district level. My 2016 trip covered TH 23 all the way from Pipestone to Duluth, and I noticed that the district that covers southwest Minnesota had gone kind of wild with active intersection warning signs and snowmobile right-of-way signing, while pretty much every structure that qualified for a MnDOT bridge number--including even tiny culverts--had a horizontal bridge-number sign ("Bridge No" in small type followed by bridge number in large type, a design that was recently removed from the MnDOT
Standard Signs Manual). By Willmar all of that was pretty much over.
Yes, there were signs announcing that stretch of MN-23 as having been part of collision reduction initiative or some such verbiage. Nice to know, but not exactly warranting multiple signs on a (warning) yellow background.
I've long been a fan of advance-warning flashing yellow lights for stoplights that are about to turn red (as opposed to those that just flash all the time). MN-23 not only has those, but I also saw one for an unsignalized intersection (assumedly activated by sensors at the crossroad) and also one at a firehouse or something like that. Pretty sweet, especially as I was driving around dusk and dawn, when cross traffic can be rather invisible.
Yes, Minnesota's small green signs on stoplight arms are something that should be replicated across the nation. Along with extensive use of reflectors for snowy conditions.
The thing that irks me most about Minnesota's signage is that there is no consistency in the use of blue pentagons versus white squares for county roads. I had read once that the practice varies by county, but I'm starting to think even that is wishful thinking and counties can actually be internally inconsistent. In Kandiyohi County, for example, I saw several crossroads that used blue pentagons for reassurance markets; however, some of the advance junction assemblies used white squares., while others used blue pentagons. I could determine no rhyme or reason.
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 06:24:32 PM
The thing that irks me most about Minnesota's signage is that there is no consistency in the use of blue pentagons versus white squares for county roads. I had read once that the practice varies by county, but I'm starting to think even that is wishful thinking and counties can actually be internally inconsistent. In Kandiyohi County, for example, I saw several crossroads that used blue pentagons for reassurance markets; however, some of the advance junction assemblies used white squares., while others used blue pentagons. I could determine no rhyme or reason.
Some counties use both to differentiate between County State-Aid Highways (the blue pentagons) and regular County Roads (white squares).
Right. I get that. And I thought maybe that was it. But I saw two situations:
Junction assembly used white square, road itself used blue pentagons.
Junction assembly used blue pentagon, road itself also used blue pentagons.
Explain that!
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 06:31:17 PM
Right. I get that. And I thought maybe that was it. But I saw two situations:
Junction assembly used white square, road itself used blue pentagons.
Junction assembly used blue pentagon, road itself also used blue pentagons.
Explain that!
It could be a case of MnDOT making that distinction but not the county (though normally MnDOT follows the same practice as the county it's in). But who knows, maybe it's just an error.
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 04:49:08 PM
The [BYPASS LANE] signs are super awesome.
I've never seen/heard of these. Any connection to passing lanes?
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2017, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 04:49:08 PM
The [BYPASS LANE] signs are super awesome.
I've never seen/heard of these. Any connection to passing lanes?
Well, sort of. They're for going around left-turning vehicles in the main travel lane: https://goo.gl/maps/ruj3gqzG59T2
In regard to county road shields, both the squares and pentagons are in the Minnesota MUTCD and counties are free to choose between either. Some of the lack of consistency comes from counties being in the process of changing from one to the other.
There is also variation in how passing lane stripes emerge from the centerline on rural two-lanes in Minnesota. Some follow the same basic striping pattern that is prevalent in Ontario, Michigan, and Wisconsin: broken white stripe tapers to the right away from the yellow centerline until the passing lane reaches unit lane width, at which point the taper ends and the broken white stripe runs parallel to the centerline (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.8470812,-92.5451716,168m/data=!3m1!1e3). Others have a large hatched yellow island that tapers out from the centerline until it reaches unit lane width, at which point it ends and the right-hand edge becomes a broken white stripe that runs parallel to the centerline: I recall this is especially favored in southwestern Minnesota (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23passinglanes/Final%20Assessment%20Report%2014%2005%2016.pdf) (page 14 of 55 in linked PDF has the typical layout). I believe there are also a few instances of the striping pattern that is favored in Kansas, i.e., shoulder stripe tapers right until unit lane width is reached, at which point the broken white stripe for the passing lane starts.
The goal of the first two striping patterns is to guide drivers out of the passing lane by default, reserving it for those who actually intend to pass. The first of these two is simpler and less wasteful of both passing lane length and thermoplastic (especially environmentally damaging yellow pigment).
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 10, 2017, 06:54:45 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2017, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 04:49:08 PM
The [BYPASS LANE] signs are super awesome.
I've never seen/heard of these. Any connection to passing lanes?
Well, sort of. They're for going around left-turning vehicles in the main travel lane: https://goo.gl/maps/ruj3gqzG59T2
Brilliant piece of engineering. Shame these aren't more common. I can think of at least one good location near me that would do well with a "bypass lane": https://goo.gl/d3s4Q9 (you can tell by the lack of vegetation that the gravel area is used to bypass turning traffic quite often already, but a paved bypass area would make it a lot easier for those in non 4x4 vehicles to perform the maneuver).
Quote from: jakeroot on October 11, 2017, 04:25:06 AM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 10, 2017, 06:54:45 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2017, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 04:49:08 PM
The [BYPASS LANE] signs are super awesome.
I've never seen/heard of these. Any connection to passing lanes?
Well, sort of. They're for going around left-turning vehicles in the main travel lane: https://goo.gl/maps/ruj3gqzG59T2
Brilliant piece of engineering. Shame these aren't more common. I can think of at least one good location near me that would do well with a "bypass lane": https://goo.gl/d3s4Q9 (you can tell by the lack of vegetation that the gravel area is used to bypass turning traffic quite often already, but a paved bypass area would make it a lot easier for those in non 4x4 vehicles to perform the maneuver).
And they're EVERYWHERE in Minnesota. Freaking awesome.
I am not a fan of some of MNDOT's signing:
* They seem inconsistent on the use of interchange sequence signs.
* They do not seem to do a good job signing option lanes. This really becomes an issue when they don't always use exit only tabs either (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8772875,-93.0021708,3a,23.6y,350.71h,89.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shyzmp3f4kCR3cufoxJdM1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* Lack of exit numbers on non-interstates
* Not very good at warning of left exits in advance. Here's one example on NB I-35W. (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9289303,-93.2745942,3a,75y,0.11h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPbyC3VHTvvd01KmiCo_WTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) There should be a black on yellow "left" to the right of "WEST".
* Then there is this sign on I-35W south of Downtown Minneapolis (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9575559,-93.2692676,3a,60y,7.89h,85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6PoWOnauA09Ycvmcv1Pr5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en). Several of the signs south of this assembly do not seem consistent either and are lacking mention of I-94.
* They fail to mention County Road numbers on some freeway signs
* They are not good at mentioning what side of the road an entrance ramp is on in advance
Exit numbers have begun to appear on some non-Interstate freeways. I don't expect them all to appear overnight, but the trend has changed.
Second, adding county roads to some freeway signs is pointless. I doubt there's even a single person in existence that navigates Ramsey County largely by using its numbered county road system. Who here previously knew that White Bear Ave is Ramsey County 65? (Though admittedly I might be asking the wrong audience that rhetorical question :-P) There's a few exceptions, like CR 49 and 96 (and even the former is probably better known as Rice St), but those are only because they once were state maintained with those numbers.
Also, your second link doesn't work. ;-)
Quote from: kphoger on October 11, 2017, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 11, 2017, 04:25:06 AM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 10, 2017, 06:54:45 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2017, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 10, 2017, 04:49:08 PM
The [BYPASS LANE] signs are super awesome.
I've never seen/heard of these. Any connection to passing lanes?
Well, sort of. They're for going around left-turning vehicles in the main travel lane: https://goo.gl/maps/ruj3gqzG59T2 (https://goo.gl/maps/ruj3gqzG59T2)
Brilliant piece of engineering. Shame these aren't more common. I can think of at least one good location near me that would do well with a "bypass lane": https://goo.gl/d3s4Q9 (https://goo.gl/d3s4Q9) (you can tell by the lack of vegetation that the gravel area is used to bypass turning traffic quite often already, but a paved bypass area would make it a lot easier for those in non 4x4 vehicles to perform the maneuver).
And they're EVERYWHERE in Minnesota. Freaking awesome.
These lanes are very common in Wisconsin as well at T-intersections. Only in areas of higher traffic do you see them create islands and specific turn lanes.
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 11, 2017, 08:49:05 PMI am not a fan of some of MNDOT's signing:
* They seem inconsistent on the use of interchange sequence signs.
How so?
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 11, 2017, 08:49:05 PM* They do not seem to do a good job signing option lanes. This really becomes an issue when they don't always use exit only panels either (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8772875,-93.0021708,3a,23.6y,350.71h,89.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shyzmp3f4kCR3cufoxJdM1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
That particular example strikes me as a variant of the option-lane-followed-by-lane drop problem, which all agencies struggle with.
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 11, 2017, 08:49:05 PM* Lack of exit numbers on non-interstates
As MNHighwayMan points out, there are signs of progress on this front in Minnesota since the US 169 Shakopee Bypass apparently has signed exit numbers in at least one location. In comparison, Kansas DOT (to quote just one example) still has a perfect record of no exit numbers on non-Interstates.
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 11, 2017, 08:49:05 PM* Not very good at warning of left exits in advance. Here's one example on NB I-35W. (//http://) There should be a black on yellow "left" to the right of "LEFT".
An exit number tab with a yellow "LEFT" plaque is a very recent addition (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/signsmanual/summaryofchanges.pdf) to MnDOT's
Standard Signs Manual. MnDOT has been doing relatively few pure sign replacement contracts lately, so the existing left exit tabs without yellow plaque are nowhere near being changed out.
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 11, 2017, 08:49:05 PM* Then there is this sign on I-35W south of Downtown Minneapolis (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9575559,-93.2692676,3a,60y,7.89h,85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6PoWOnauA09Ycvmcv1Pr5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en). Several of the signs south of this assembly do not seem consistent either and are lacking mention of I-94.
I have some familiarity with this area since I parked on Groveland Avenue (southwestern fringe of downtown, just north of I-94; its bridge over I-94 overlooks the Lyndale Tunnel south portal) to visit the Walker Art Center and the Minneapolis Institute of Art. The signing doesn't seem especially confusing to me, given that the freeway interchanges in the vicinity have restricted access. The "Downtown Exits" sign (pointing to the downtown connector) may at one time have had TH 65 shields, though I can't be sure without going through my MnDOT sign panel detail sheet stash, which has well over two thousand sheets for Hennepin County alone. The left exit exists because the downtown connector has a braided connection with I-35W, with which it is in a brief commons until the latter route peels off east for a commons with I-94. The downtown connector itself has just a restricted-access interchange with I-94 (northbound connects with I-94 westbound only, and southbound does not connect with I-94 at all). Surface streets in the surrounding neighborhoods have access to eastbound I-94 through Lyndale and South Fifth Avenues only.
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 11, 2017, 08:49:05 PM* They are not good at mentioning what side of the road an entrance ramp is on in advance
Hmmm? (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7699025,-93.2846646,3a,17y,276.33h,88.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siaJ75CCyDdKPBMTPTaUj_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I am not sure Zwahlen signs have caught on outside Ohio.
As a relative newcomer to the Twin Cities when I visited in May 2016, the biggest adjustment for me was dealing with striping treatments at cloverleafs. When a collector-distributor roadway is not provided, it is not uncommon for MnDOT to try to mitigate weaving conflicts between an entry loop and an exit loop by cutting back the painted gore for the latter to create more length for merging. It helps that MnDOT is consistent about using elephant tracks.
The non-Interstates where I have seen exit numbers:
-The aforementioned US 169 Shakopee bypass; the numbers have spread along the length of the bypass up to the Pioneer Trail exit across the river.
-US 10/61 in Newport and Cottage Grove.
-MN 610's westernmost three exits (the final segment of that freeway to open).
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 11, 2017, 11:34:50 PMThe "Downtown Exits" sign (pointing to the downtown connector) may at one time have had TH 65 shields, though I can't be sure without going through my MnDOT sign panel detail sheet stash, which has well over two thousand sheets for Hennepin County alone.
It certainly would've been signed there, up until the mid 2000s, but I'm not sure if that panel is old enough. Dunno what else the empty space would've been for, though.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 11, 2017, 09:11:49 PM
Second, adding county roads to some freeway signs is pointless. I doubt there's even a single person in existence that navigates Ramsey County largely by using its numbered county road system. Who here previously knew that White Bear Ave is Ramsey County 65?
Someone from out of state looking at a map (and the MN state map does have some of these numbers), seeing a road has a county route number, and seeing county route numbers on other freeway guide signs?
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 11, 2017, 11:34:50 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 11, 2017, 08:49:05 PM
* They seem inconsistent on the use of interchange sequence signs.
How so?
Seems there are several spots around the Twin Cities the interchange sequence signs are not used after having them after several other interchanges.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 11, 2017, 11:34:50 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 11, 2017, 08:49:05 PM* They do not seem to do a good job signing option lanes. This really becomes an issue when they don't always use exit only panels either (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8772875,-93.0021708,3a,23.6y,350.71h,89.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shyzmp3f4kCR3cufoxJdM1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
That particular example strikes me as a variant of the option-lane-followed-by-lane drop problem, which all agencies struggle with.
Still should be some form of "exit only" on the signs for I-494 on NB US 61 north of Glen Road.
Drove the reopened US 169 tonight.
-As we knew, the southbound RIRO to 16th St was removed. But it's not that they just removed the exit and made the street into a dead end. They literally removed the entire street in that area.
-No exit numbers were added to any of the interchanges that were involved in the work project.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 12, 2017, 11:41:35 PM
Drove the reopened US 169 tonight.
-As we knew, the southbound RIRO to 16th St was removed. But it's not that they just removed the exit and made the street into a dead end. They literally removed the entire street in that area.
-No exit numbers were added to any of the interchanges that were involved in the work project.
With the new noise wall there, when I went by 16th street going southbound I said to myself "I can't believe there was ever an exit there". I also really like the added northbound acceleration lane added at Cedar Lake Road.
Regarding county route numbers on guide signs, there are two primary reasons for the vast bulk of these situations:
A): It's in Ramsey County, which (with the exception of former state highways turned back to the county, namely former MN 49 and most of former MN 96) only within the last 20 years has started including reassurance shields for its county routes. But as a general rule, Ramsey County does not fully sign its county routes. MnDOT, as noted above, typically follows the county's lead and thus (again except for former MN 49 & 96 segments) ignores county routes on freeway signage.
B): Cases where the county route has the same number as a state highway in the general vicinity**, and so MnDOT does not post the county route number in order to avoid confusion. As an example, this is the reason why CSAH 5 was taken off the I-494 guide signs at Minnetonka Blvd (Exit 17). It was being confused with MN 5, with that confusion made worse by MN 5 having a concurrency with I-494.
** - Two notable exceptions to this are Hennepin CSAH 62 and Ramsey CSAH 10. The former is an extension of the Metro Area MN 62 (and deliberate), while the latter is the old routing of US 10 through Mounds View.
To go off point B, there was one instance that confused me.
I-494 in Bloomington. Portland Avenue is signed as County 35. Nicollet Avenue, which is County 52 had the shields removed on those signs. Were people confusing US 52 but not confusing I-35W/E?
I believe CSAH 52 was in advance of a county turnback that was planned but never happened, but I'm not 100% on that.
Quote from: froggie on October 14, 2017, 08:35:17 PM
Regarding county route numbers on guide signs, there are two primary reasons for the vast bulk of these situations:
A): It's in Ramsey County, which (with the exception of former state highways turned back to the county, namely former MN 49 and most of former MN 96) only within the last 20 years has started including reassurance shields for its county routes. But as a general rule, Ramsey County does not fully sign its county routes. MnDOT, as noted above, typically follows the county's lead and thus (again except for former MN 49 & 96 segments) ignores county routes on freeway signage.
B): Cases where the county route has the same number as a state highway in the general vicinity**, and so MnDOT does not post the county route number in order to avoid confusion. As an example, this is the reason why CSAH 5 was taken off the I-494 guide signs at Minnetonka Blvd (Exit 17). It was being confused with MN 5, with that confusion made worse by MN 5 having a concurrency with I-494.
** - Two notable exceptions to this are Hennepin CSAH 62 and Ramsey CSAH 10. The former is an extension of the Metro Area MN 62 (and deliberate), while the latter is the old routing of US 10 through Mounds View.
This was Kandiyohi County, so
A is right out. Here are specific examples, in northeast—southwest order. Notice that some of them match and some of them don't, for no reason apparent to me.
1 Advance junction assembly using white squares (https://goo.gl/maps/Zwbc5QRb8Am), even though...
...both highways (CR-6 (https://goo.gl/maps/T1w8t7qZhNp) & CR-143 (https://goo.gl/maps/xKAEgSRoKFS2)) use blue pentagon markers.
MN-6 is >100 miles away, MN-143 does not exist.
2 Advance junction sign using a white square (https://goo.gl/maps/AMNPgPAcfeC2), even though...
...CR-2 uses blue pentagon markers (https://goo.gl/maps/Y6ABAGcPJvx).
MN-2 does not exist.
3 Advance junction sign using a blue pentagon (https://goo.gl/maps/uqWKdNjUSyt), which...
...matches what CR-40 actually uses (https://goo.gl/maps/5TQLgXqZM6y).
4 Advance junction sign using a blue pentagon (https://goo.gl/maps/zesLwVjgdQK2), which...
...matches what CR-10 actually uses (https://goo.gl/maps/SFr3SPk1B392).
5 Advance junction sign using a blue pentagon (https://goo.gl/maps/t7JCiESwoLC2), which...
...matches what CR-127 actually uses (https://goo.gl/maps/dnM3FycZHTE2).
6 Advance junction sign using a white square (https://goo.gl/maps/FEZvuHiM6fM2), even though...
...CR-25 uses blue pentagon markers (https://goo.gl/maps/ZJRYe9nx1aH2).
MN-25 is >50 miles away.
I was referring to the earlier discussion on guide signs which Revive 755 brought up, not junction signs as your examples show.
That's what I get for lazy reading. I'm a guy, I thought I knew how that sentence ended so I stopped listening. Basically, I assumed you were talking about potential confusion between white-on-blue county road markers and white-on-blue state highway markers.
I drove the reopened MN 210 today.
Wow. What a job.
That's also a top-3 drive in Minnesota just for that 10 miles east of Carlton.
Did they straighten it out at all or is it pretty much on the same alignment as it was before?
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 19, 2017, 09:08:30 PM
Did they straighten it out at all or is it pretty much on the same alignment as it was before?
I remember driving up that once westbound and it was just steep & slippery enough I couldn't get the car up it. But the road was too narrow to turn around.
It's pretty much the same alignment as it was before the floods destroyed the road.
Heard that MnDOT is looking at a design build project for 494 in Bloomington/Richfield. Three main goals:
1.) Build phase 1 of the turbine interchange at 35W and 494 which entails the 35W Northbound to 494 Westbound ramp (eliminating the loop). See the link for the report for phase 1: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494and35winterchange/pdf/trafficexecutivesummary.pdf (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494and35winterchange/pdf/trafficexecutivesummary.pdf)
2.) A westbound auxiliary lane between MN 77 and 35W
3.) An eastbound auxiliary lane between MN 100 and 35W
MnDOT for the 35W project between 42nd and downtown has had numerous outreach on the upcoming project focusing on the 35W corridor. But what has not been discussed are the temporary lane additions to MN 62, 394, and MN 100. Similar to what was done over the 35W Minnesota River Bridge and 94 between 280 and 35W, lanes will be shifted and added to account for the additional traffic on these roadways.
In the vein of the MN-210 discussion – does anyone know what MnDOT might've done if they hadn't reconstructed the road, like they had originally wanted? Ended 210 at the state park entrance? At Jay Cooke Rd/CR-151, where the temporary end sign was erected? Something else? I hadn't thought about the possibility until now.
Probably would have ended with MN 45, as they likely would have seen anything east of there as a county function, and providing access to state parks is not a state highway mission. Several state parks whose main access is via county roads.
Quote from: froggie on October 29, 2017, 08:39:00 PM
Probably would have ended with MN 45, as they likely would have seen anything east of there as a county function, and providing access to state parks is not a state highway mission. Several state parks whose main access is via county roads.
I agree in most cases, but as Jay Cooke is one of the state's five most visited parks annually with 300,000 visitors I think this is one time where it would be beneficial to keep it on the state highway network.
Quote from: froggie on October 29, 2017, 08:39:00 PM
Probably would have ended with MN 45, as they likely would have seen anything east of there as a county function, and providing access to state parks is not a state highway mission. Several state parks whose main access is via county roads.
So you're suggesting they would've created yet another end-to-end terminus (much like the 120/244 terminus that somehow continues to exist to this day)? Or might've MN-45 been renumbered as a N/S extension of a truncated MN-210?
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 30, 2017, 01:00:42 AM
Quote from: froggie on October 29, 2017, 08:39:00 PM
Probably would have ended with MN 45, as they likely would have seen anything east of there as a county function, and providing access to state parks is not a state highway mission. Several state parks whose main access is via county roads.
So you're suggesting they would've created yet another end-to-end terminus (much like the 120/244 terminus that somehow continues to exist to this day)? Or might've MN-45 been renumbered as a N/S extension of a truncated MN-210?
I would have liked to see 210 replace 45 in this case. What's amusing is it would mean two state routes would have terminated at Carlton County 1, which is the south leg of that 4-way and quietly duplexes with MN 210 to the east through Carlton.
As an unrelated aside, I love that the 120/244 terminus in White Bear Lake/Mahtomedi has existed long enough for me to see it on Steve Riner's website, then long enough for me to become old enough to drive there to photograph it not once (https://i.imgur.com/zu8ikp6.jpg) (2011), but twice (https://i.imgur.com/xvoIlDT.jpg) (2015).
Prior to the 210 reconstruction, the Duluth MPO did a public input study to see what sort of public consensus there was on whether or not to rebuild the roadway, what sort of design, and who should have jurisdiction over the roadway. As a general rule, both the public and Minnesota Power want MnDOT to retain the road as a state highway. Both the DNR and local elected officials felt that it didn't necessarily have to remain a MnDOT road, just as long as their jurisdiction wasn't the one taking it over. Below are specific, verbatim quotes from their final report to MnDOT:
Carlton County did not express a desire to take over the roadway.
The DNR has not expressed interest in taking the road over, despite the fact owning the road would give them a higher level of access control.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 19, 2017, 03:19:19 PM
I drove the reopened MN 210 today.
Wow. What a job.
That's also a top-3 drive in Minnesota just for that 10 miles east of Carlton.
Yeah, we took it a couple weeks ago. It's pretty impressive.
Did either of you get photos? Is it significantly different from what existed pre-flooding?
US 169 got a nice speed boost to 60 through at least part of the metro area. I only saw between 694 and 394, so I'm not sure how far it extends. I'm guessing northward it probably goes to 610 where the freeway section ends. It would be interesting if the 60 section extends south of 394, since that's where the 60 section of MN 100 ends (which went to 60 between 394 and 694 a decade ago).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 20, 2017, 05:40:33 PM
US 169 got a nice speed boost to 60 through at least part of the metro area. I only saw between 694 and 394, so I'm not sure how far it extends. I'm guessing northward it probably goes to 610 where the freeway section ends. It would be interesting if the 60 section extends south of 394, since that's where the 60 section of MN 100 ends (which went to 60 between 394 and 694 a decade ago).
I couldn't find any reference on the Channel 5 news story to indicate where the 60 zone ends either.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 20, 2017, 05:40:33 PM
US 169 got a nice speed boost to 60 through at least part of the metro area. I only saw between 694 and 394, so I'm not sure how far it extends. I'm guessing northward it probably goes to 610 where the freeway section ends. It would be interesting if the 60 section extends south of 394, since that's where the 60 section of MN 100 ends (which went to 60 between 394 and 694 a decade ago).
The 60MPH limit is posted south of 394, and continues to where the 65MPH limit begins south of 494.
A question about the Worthington area: Why is there a half diamond interchange for Nobles County Road 3 east of Worthington? I drove past it on the way to my uncle's farm in western Nobles County and I looked at it on Google Maps and can't figure out why that exit exists.
Quote from: DandyDan on November 25, 2017, 12:41:17 AM
A question about the Worthington area: Why is there a half diamond interchange for Nobles County Road 3 east of Worthington? I drove past it on the way to my uncle's farm in western Nobles County and I looked at it on Google Maps and can't figure out why that exit exists.
Almost makes you wonder if somebody transposed the plans, since the interchange would make a little sense if it was EB entry/exit as a shortcut to eastbound MN 60. My best guess is it's meant to be another access route to Round Lake without sending people all the way over to MN 264.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 25, 2017, 04:36:55 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on November 25, 2017, 12:41:17 AM
A question about the Worthington area: Why is there a half diamond interchange for Nobles County Road 3 east of Worthington? I drove past it on the way to my uncle's farm in western Nobles County and I looked at it on Google Maps and can't figure out why that exit exists.
Almost makes you wonder if somebody transposed the plans, since the interchange would make a little sense if it was EB entry/exit as a shortcut to eastbound MN 60. My best guess is it's meant to be another access route to Round Lake without sending people all the way over to MN 264.
Having now driven back home, going east on 90, I can guess it has everything to do with the weigh station east of the MN 60 exit. Before the US 59 and MN 60 exits, there is a sign that tells trucks they have to go to the weigh station if the light is flashing. I wonder if they have the same sign on MN 60 eastbound as you approach I-90. That exit ramp is a glorified U-turn. I suspect it's cheaper to have one there than to have one on 60 south of Worthington and one on 90 west of Worthington.
MnDOT has narrowed down to four alternatives for rebuilding 35/535/US 53 in Duluth, even though funding is still far from guaranteed.
Concepts B and C both involve signalized 90-degree turns to remain on US 53 and/or I-535.
Concept I is the free-flow, which would be my preferred alternative.
Concept O has a weird U-turn on the east side to facilitate the transition between I-535 and southbound 35/northbound 53.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/twin-ports-interchange/technicaldocuments.html
The other problem which can't be helped in any scenario will be detour routes. There are no alternatives to I-35 or US 53 and the local streets around this interchange are not suitable for long-term detour traffic.
Concept I isn't fully free-flow. There would still be a traffic signal where the northbound ramps meet US 53. But it's certainly more streamlined than the 90-degree turns of B/C and the U-turn ramp of O and would also be my preference. But a big problem with I is that it creates the worst weaving situation on southbound 35 between the 53 on-ramp and the exit to 27th.
Water main break under I-694 causes a sinkhole underneath the road in Oakdale. Closed in both directions between MN 36 and 10th St until further notice.
From this morning's Strib (http://www.startribune.com/washout-in-oakdale-closes-stretch-of-i-694-for-days/461806173/#1):
QuoteMnDOT enlarged the portion that is closed, which now stretches from I-94 in the south to Hwy. 36 in the north.
QuoteThe break occurred in a 12-inch diameter pipe connected to the municipal water supply system, said Oakdale police spokeswoman Michelle Stark.
QuoteThe washout formed under the southbound lanes of the interstate just north of the 15th Street N. overpass and was visible in the median.
QuoteGutknecht said the larger closure is needed so vehicles can be "detoured through like-sized roads."
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 30, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
MnDOT has narrowed down to four alternatives for rebuilding 35/535/US 53 in Duluth, even though funding is still far from guaranteed.
Concepts B and C both involve signalized 90-degree turns to remain on US 53 and/or I-535.
Concept I is the free-flow, which would be my preferred alternative.
Concept O has a weird U-turn on the east side to facilitate the transition between I-535 and southbound 35/northbound 53.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/twin-ports-interchange/technicaldocuments.html
The other problem which can't be helped in any scenario will be detour routes. There are no alternatives to I-35 or US 53 and the local streets around this interchange are not suitable for long-term detour traffic.
Some of these options would require I-535 to go bye-bye.
Concept I is the least stupid and could be made functional with some changes to eliminate the tight weave and provide a non-shitty ramp from 35 NB to 535 SB.
Concept O looks like what they did with the I-94/US 52 interchange rebuild.
Quote from: triplemultiplexSome of these options would require I-535 to go bye-bye.
Strictly speaking, no (keeping in mind that Interstates are just as much a funding category as they are a design standard...this is why I-180 WY exists). But "B" would certainly require a design exemption from FHWA. The other three options, while not optimal to some, still retain enough ramp connections to qualify.
Quote from: froggie on December 05, 2017, 07:29:47 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplexSome of these options would require I-535 to go bye-bye.
Strictly speaking, no (keeping in mind that Interstates are just as much a funding category as they are a design standard...this is why I-180 WY exists). But "B" would certainly require a design exemption from FHWA. The other three options, while not optimal to some, still retain enough ramp connections to qualify.
Wasn't it similar changes that brought about the decommissioning of I-587 in New York though? Or am I way off?
I wasn't aware that I-587 NY was decommissioned. If anything, the rebuilt circle at the Thruway interchange is an improvement over what was there before.
Both Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_28#Route_description) and GSV (admittedly from about a year ago) (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9428151,-74.0263592,3a,61.6y,302.1h,100.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPttL65bRXIhkpSKJBfayMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) seem to indicate that I-587 still exists (though not actually connected to I-87?). I don't know what to believe. :crazy:
I-587 still exists.
Quote from: Rothman on December 05, 2017, 08:02:24 PM
I-587 still exists.
Thanks for the confirmation. But is it accurate to say that I-587 no longer connects to I-87? The placement of the END signs certainly suggest it.
I don't believe that situation has ever changed. It's always connected to the 87/Thruway interchange via a traffic circle (which was rebuilt about 10-15 years ago).
MnDOT's employee newsletters from the 1950's on-wards have been digitized, found the article on the initial authorization of the interstate network in metro. Also included are pictures of 35E/94 next to the capital (full interchange) and 94 at Hennepin/Lyndale (when the freeway when it was planned to go above Hennepin/Lyndale versus through a tunnel as it does today):
https://reflections.mndigital.org/catalog/mdt:1793#/image/3 (https://reflections.mndigital.org/catalog/mdt:1793#/image/3)
Apparently Minnesota's 2nd route marker was redesigned at some time to remove the "Minnesota" at top
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4764/26491782478_29c66fd62f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GmZiYj)signs (https://flic.kr/p/GmZiYj) by North Star Highways (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
Where is that? Guessing the junction on the east side of the Mendota Bridge?
Yes. Northbound 13 at the former junction.
Quote from: Roadguy on January 18, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
MnDOT's employee newsletters from the 1950's on-wards have been digitized, found the article on the initial authorization of the interstate network in metro. Also included are pictures of 35E/94 next to the capital (full interchange) and 94 at Hennepin/Lyndale (when the freeway when it was planned to go above Hennepin/Lyndale versus through a tunnel as it does today):
https://reflections.mndigital.org/catalog/mdt:1793#/image/3 (https://reflections.mndigital.org/catalog/mdt:1793#/image/3)
Forgot to follow up on this one, but why exactly was the NB 35E-WB 94 connection removed from the final design?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 20, 2018, 12:53:58 PM
Quote from: Roadguy on January 18, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
MnDOT's employee newsletters from the 1950's on-wards have been digitized, found the article on the initial authorization of the interstate network in metro. Also included are pictures of 35E/94 next to the capital (full interchange) and 94 at Hennepin/Lyndale (when the freeway when it was planned to go above Hennepin/Lyndale versus through a tunnel as it does today):
https://reflections.mndigital.org/catalog/mdt:1793#/image/3 (https://reflections.mndigital.org/catalog/mdt:1793#/image/3)
Forgot to follow up on this one, but why exactly was the NB 35E-WB 94 connection removed from the final design?
Didn't that planned NB I-35E to WB I-94 ramp ultimately morph into what is now the WB I-94 on ramp from 5th St (ditto the planned/never built connection for EB I-94 to SB I-35E)? ISTR that before that area was rebuilt in the late 1980s/early 1990s, the I-94 ramps there were configured differently with the never-built I-35E connections in mind.
Mike
Seems to me that Ayd Mill Rd was meant to be the missing connection.
Ayd Mill Rd was intended as the longer-term and regional-scale connection (ca. 1963 city plans envisioned it as a full freeway that would continue north of I-94 along Snelling Ave). Local connections were to be via what became today's Kellogg Blvd.
It should also be noted that, of the four mid-1940s-era maps planning I-94 and I-35E that I've seen, only one of them had the direct ramps like what was in the graphic Monte linked to.
A roundabout is being installed on the north side of the I-35/MN 33 interchange in Cloquet this year. This intersection has been the site of a number of major crashes over the last several years as SB MN 33-NB I-35 traffic takes a left turn across traffic exiting from northbound I-35 onto MN 33. I expect this will result in critics warning that the high-speed traffic exiting the freeway will not be expecting a low-speed obstacle, and it's not really debatable that the sight lines on the NB 35-NB 33 ramp aren't very good.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/i-35-cloquet/
That seems like an absolutely awful place for a roundabout.
Frankly I would have just gotten rid of the SB 33-NB 35 movement if they had come to the point that action needed to be taken, and just redirect NB 35-bound traffic down Carlton County 45 to the I-35 interchange at Exit 239.
FHWA frowns upon incomplete Interstate interchanges these days. There are exceptions they will grant (494/169), but generally speaking they prefer full interchanges.
The 494/169 rebuild almost didn't happen because of this preference.
Wasn't there also some similar kind of nonsense about the missing movements at the I-94/MN-610 interchange?
There's a project to convert all District 1, 3, 4, 7 and Metro Districts high mast lighting to LEDs this summers with three projects to be let this summer. 8816-2701 covers the metro and District 3, and 8816-2704 covers District 7, 8816-2733 covers Districts 1 and 4. Both symmetrical and asymmetrical high pressure sodium luminaires used 1000 watts plus the ballast; the symmetrical LEDs use 627 watts and the asymmetrical ones use 209 watts proving that LEDs really shine when you want to direct light to a specific area rather than all over.
The only approved fixture is made by Holophane. Previously they've used holophane fixtures intended for high mast installations mounted to davit poles for 5 lane freeways.
District 2 and 8 have no high mast lights that I know of, and no word about District 6.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on April 04, 2018, 08:18:00 AM
Wasn't there also some similar kind of nonsense about the missing movements at the I-94/MN-610 interchange?
Living in Texas "incomplete interchanges" makes us laugh. e.g. to go from SB 35 to NB 183 or SB 183 you must exit and take a turn and get back on. Also for NB 183 to SB or NB 35, SB 183 to NB 35, or NB 35 to SB 183. The only directional is SB 183 to SB 35 and vice versa. There are many intersections like this.
^ However, as I recall, the frontage roads in much of Texas are considered part of the Interstate, even if there are signals at the junctions. So those are not considered incomplete interchanges in a general sense...
Quote from: froggie on April 05, 2018, 10:59:01 AM
^ However, as I recall, the frontage roads in much of Texas are considered part of the Interstate, even if there are signals at the junctions. So those are not considered incomplete interchanges in a general sense...
and you gotta love our turnarounds
As usual for the first week of April, MnDOT announced their 2018 construction season (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/18/04/4kickoff.html). Also, as has become tradition over the past few years, I've created a series of posts showing completion of major projects over the past year, plus current and planned major projects including interchanges, major roundabouts, or other major highway projects.
Here's what was completed in 2017:
MN 7/US 71 south of Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy7hwy71roundabout/) - This project replaced the previous traffic signal with a roundabout.
MN 23 at Kandiyohi CSAH 5 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23kandi5/index.html) near Willmar - This project built an overpass for CSAH 5 over MN 23, utilizing the existing grading/fill that was initially built with the Willmar bypass for a planned interchange. The eastbound on-ramp to MN 23 was also built so as to avoid the need for at-grade left turns onto MN 23. The existing roadway north of MN 23 remains as the connector road for the other movements between MN 23 and CSAH 5.
MN 23 in West Duluth (http://www.mndot.gov/d1/projects/Hwy23grand/) - Completion of reconstruction of MN 23 through West Duluth, from Becks Rd to I-35.
MN 24 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/hwy24/) - While the new bridge itself was opened last summer and the old bridge removed, wrap-up work continues into this summer. The wrap-up work includes repaving and traffic signal upgrades between I-94 and US 10.
I-35W at County Road H (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/crhoveri35wardenhills/) in Arden Hills - This project widened County Road H between I-35W and CSAH 10, removed the southbound on-ramp loop, added a northbound off-ramp from I-35W that bridges under the WB 10-to-NB 35W ramp, and built roundabouts at the ramp terminals.
MN 36 St. Croix River Crossing (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/stcroixcrossing/) - The "Stillwater Bridge" replacement is finally open to traffic, having opened last August (just before the Twin Cities road meet). There are a few punchlist items left for this year, plus conversion of the old lift bridge into a bike/ped facility, but aside from a brief MN 95 closure this summer, this project is finished for the motoring public.
US 52 at MN 58 in Zumbrota (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy58-bridge/index.html) - This project replaced the MN 58 bridge over US 52 and added roundabouts at the ramp junctions.
US 52 at Dakota CSAH 86 near Cannon Falls - This "pop-up" project built an interchange on US 52 at Dakota CSAH 86. The layout is a folded-diamond interchange with on-ramp loops.
US 52 between Cannon Falls and Coates (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy52coates/index.html) - MnDOT converted several intersections on US 52 to Reduced-Conflict Intersections (RCI).
US 53 relocation near Virginia (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy53relocation/) - This major project relocated US 53 on the south side of Virginia so that the adjacent mining company (which owns the land underneath existing US 53) can expand its mine. US 53 was relocated to the northeast, including a 1,100ft long bridge over the Rocheleau Pit that is now the tallest bridge in the state. The project replaced the existing half-interchange at 2nd St with an intersection, but added a diamond interchange at MN 135 to replace the old 53/135 interchange.
US 59 at Becker CSAH 22 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/hwy59roundabout/index.html) south of Detroit Lakes - MnDOT built a roundabout at US 59/CSAH 22, replacing the former 4-way stop sign.
MN 73 at Carlton CSAH 10 in Moose Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Moose-Lake-Area-Project/index.html) - Part of a series of other improvements around Moose Lake, a roundabout was built at MN 73/CSAH 10.
MN 73 at St. Louis CSAH 5 in Chisholm (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy73chisholm/index.html) - This county-led project partially realigned CSAH 5 and built a roundabout where it meets MN 73, just north of US 169.
MN 77 at Cedar Grove (just south of MN 13) - Not a highway project per se but a transit project that impacted the MN 77 freeway. This project built an in-line BRT station in the median of MN 77 at Cedar Grove, just south of MN 13. The roadway configuration is similar to that of the 46th St BRT station along I-35W in Minneapolis.
I-94 in East St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94stpaul/index.html) - Primarily a pavement reconstruction project extending out to MN 120, this project also built an auxiliary lane between downtown and Mounds Blvd, so there are now at least 4 lanes along eastbound I-94 from the 11th St on-ramp downtown out to US 10/61 South.
US 169 from MN 62 to MN 55 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169hopkins/index.html) - A number of projects were combined into one for this project, which included repairing pavement, closing the southbound ramps at 16th St (just south of I-394), and replacing the bridge over Nine Mile Creek (north of MN 62). The latter required a 9-month full shutdown of US 169. Everything is now completed and open.
US 169 at Red Oak Dr/Southgate Dr in Aitkin (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/aitkin/) - A roundabout was built at this intersection in southern Aitkin.
US 169 at MN 37 in Hibbing (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy-169-Hwy-37-Roundabout/index.html) - A roundabout was built at this major junction, replacing a traffic signal. While technically a single lane roundabout, it was designed to include a "free right" for southbound 169 through traffic and was also designed to accommodate double-wide truck loads like this (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy-169-Hwy-37-Roundabout/QA.html).
MN 210 through Jay Cooke State Park (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy210future/index.html) - Completed last fall, this project rebuilt a section of MN 210 through the park (which is between Carlton and West Duluth) that was washed out during a severe flood in 2012.
MN 371 between Nisswa and Jenkins (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/hwy371/) - This long-desired project widened MN 371 to 4 lanes from Nisswa to Crow Wing CSAH 16, including a bypass of Pequot Lakes and a diamond interchange with roundabouts at Crow Wing CSAH 11.
I-694 between Arden Hills and Shoreview (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/enhance694/index.html) - This project reconstructed I-694 and added a 3rd lane in each direction between Lexington Ave and Rice St. It also fully opened the NB 35E to WB 694 ramp to 2 lanes. The only remaining 4 lane (2 per direction) segments on the 494/694 loop now are both on I-694: between I-35W and US 10 West and from US 61 to I-94/494....approximately 11.5 miles out of 73 total.
Ongoing 2018 construction (carried over from previous years):
MN 1/MN 169 near Eagles Nest Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/Hwy169eagles/) - This project will fully reconstruct MN 1/169 in the Eagles Nest Lake area between Tower and Ely, with about half of it on new alignment south of the existing alignment.
US 2 over the Red River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/kennedybridge/index.html) in East Grand Forks - Ongoing bridge rehab, including a complete replacement of the bridge deck and one bridge pier (Pier 6 at the west end of the truss). MnDOT and NDDOT opted to go this route last year instead of building a brand new bridge. Traffic will be using the completed southern half of the bridge this year as work continues on the northern half. The final configuration will see the median removed and the former narrow (2.5ft) sidewalks on each side replaced by a combined bike/ped path on the north side of the bridge, separated from vehicle traffic by a concrete barrier.
MN 4/MN 30 in St. James (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/hwy4stjames/) - Reconstruction of MN 4/MN 30 through St. James continues and should wrap up this year. The project includes two mini-roundabouts in downtown St. James.
MN 5 at Orchard Rd in Waconia (https://clients.bolton-menk.com/carvercountycsah10/) - I missed this one last year because it's a county project, but it began last year and involves a relocation of Carver CSAH 10 to meet MN 5 at Orchard Rd on the west side of Waconia. I'm including it here because the project includes a roundabout on MN 5 where it will meet Orchard Rd/relocated CSAH 10.
I-35W in south Minneapolis (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/35w94/) - This massive, 5-year project will reconstruct I-35W between 42nd St and I-94, replacing several bridges and with several reconfigurations. The MnPASS lanes on I-35W will be extended on both sides to 26th St (the existing northbound dynamic shoulder would become a full MnPASS lane). A median transit station will be built at Lake St. Two new ramps are added: a northbound off-ramp to 28th St, and a southbound off-ramp to Lake St. The flyover from northbound 35W to westbound 94 will be relocated to enter westbound 94 on the left instead of on the right (most ramp traffic stays on 94, and so it'll reduce the weave situation between 35W and Hennepin/Lyndale). The existing 35W flyover near 24th will be replaced with a fy-under north of Franklin, with southbound 35W merging on the right instead of on the left. Finally, the ramp from westbound 94 to southbound 35W will have its auxiliary lane extended to be come the exit-only lane to the new southbound ramp to Lake St.
I-35W at County Road I (https://www.ramseycounty.us/residents/roads-transit/2018-construction-maintenance/county-road-irice-creek-parkway-roundabout) in Arden Hills - This county-led project, parts of which have been finished, will permanently remove the on-ramp to northbound I-35W from County Road I, construct a roundabout where the northbound 35W off-ramp meets County I and Rice Creek Pkwy, and build a frontage road along I-35W between County I and County Road H.
MN 43 Winona Bridge (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/winonabridge/index.html) - After taking a pause due to a significant cost increase, rehabilitation of the existing Winona Bridge is back underway and is expected to take through the end of 2019. The new bridge (future southbound lanes) is open and currently running two-way traffic.
MN 60 between Windom and Mountain Lake (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/hwy60stjames/) - The last needed segment in a larger 4-lane corridor from the Twin Cities to Sioux City, IA, this project will widen MN 60 to 4-lanes between Windom and Mountain Lake. It is expected to wrap up this fall.
US 63 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/redwing-bridge/) in Red Wing - The US 63 bridges over US 61 and the Mississippi River are being replaced. The bridges will be 2-lane spans for now, but with a design that would allow for 4 lanes in the future. US 63 will also be relocated out of downtown Red Wing, meeting US 61 directly just east of the overpass. The project will extend through August, 2020.
MN 149 over the Mississippi River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy149highbridge/index.html) in St. Paul - Redecking of the Smith Ave "High Bridge" continues, with the bridge closed to traffic this year. The project should wrap up by the end of 2018.
US 169 east of Bovey (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy169-cross-range/) - This one should wrap up in June. It's extending the 4-lane section of US 169 on the Iron Range another 1.5 miles, from the Bovey bypass to just east of Itasca CSAH 7.
I-494 at Hennepin CSAH 28 in Bloomington (https://www.bloomingtonmn.gov/eng/east-bush-lake-roadi-494-interchange-west-bound-ramp) - When I-494 was reconstructed 15 years ago, the then-half-diamond at Bush Lake Rd (CSAH 28) was partially upgraded, becoming a 3/4 interchange and lacking a westbound on-ramp due to the proximity of the Dan Patch Line railroad immediately west of Bush Lake Rd. A city-led project this year will finally build a westbound on-ramp at the interchange. The ramp will split from the eastbound on-ramp, then loop to the left over 494 before merging westbound. Construction actually began last fall and will be completed this year.
New construction for 2018:
MN 3 at Dakota CSAH 26 (https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR26-Hwy3/Pages/default.aspx) in Inver Grove Heights - Dakota County is leading a project to replace this intersection with a roundabout.
MN 4 at Brown CSAH 29 north of Sleepy Eye (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/hwy14hwy4sleepyeye/) - MnDOT will build a roundabout this year.
US 10 at Sherburne CSAH 23 in Becker (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/2018/clearlaketobiglake/) - As part of a larger project that will reconstruct eastbound US 10 between Clear Lake and Big Lake, the US 10/CSAH 23 intersection in Becker will be converted into a Reduced-Conflict Intersection (RCI).
US 10 in Arden Hills (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy10ardenhills/documents.html) - This will add a 3rd auxiliary lane along eastbound US 10 between I-35W and the exit to CSAH 96. The project includes widening the SB off-ramp from I-35W to EB US 10 to 2 lanes.
US 12 near Willmar (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/willmarwye/index.html) - Officially a rail project named the "Willmar Wye", this project will build a rail shortcut on the west side of Willmar and provide a direct connection between the BNSF Morris and Marshall Subdivisions, reducing rail traffic (and crossing delays) in downtown Willmar. The wye will be parallel to and approximately 500ft east of CSAH 55 (45th St SW/NW). As part of the Wye project, US 12 will be relocated south of its existing location (to approximately the equivalent of "4th Ave SW") from near 7th Ave NW (west of CSAH 55) to 28th St SW. The relocated US 12 will be bridged over the rail wye, as will MN 40. The project is expected to be completed in 2021.
US 14/MN 15 in New Ulm (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/14newulmtonmankato/) - Though I included this in last year's "new construction", the project itself didn't get underway until December and the construction finally begins this spring. Called the "New Ulm Gateway Project", the project involves several items. It will raise US 14 and MN 15 out of the 100 year floodplain. It will replace the existing bridges over the Minnesota River and Front St/UP RR with 2-lane structures that can be expanded to 4 lanes in the future. 7th N St will be reconstructed as a 2-lane divided section with left turn lanes between N Broadway (MN 15/68) and the Front St bridge. The folded-diamond interchange at Front St will be replaced with a one-quadrant access road with a roundabout on US 14/MN 15. The US 14/MN 15/CSAH 21 junction will be replaced with a diamond interchange along MN 15 with dumbbells at the ramp junctions. A free-right will be provided for eastbound US 14 through traffic to avoid the dumbbell and the intersection at CSAH 21 South.
MN 22 at Blue Earth CSAH 90 south of Mankato (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d7/projects/hwy22mapleton/index.html) - As part of a larger reconstruction project between Mapleton and Mankato, MnDOT will build a roundabout at this intersection this year.
MN 23 in Marshall (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23marshall/index.html) - Two intersections along MN 23 in Marshall will be converted into Reduced Conflict Intersections.
MN 28 in Glenwood (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/glenwood/) - MN 28 through Glenwood will be fully reconstructed, including a 4-to-3 road diet in the Glenwood core and an upgraded traffic signal at the 28/29/104 intersection.
I-35 at MN 33 in Cloquet (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/i-35-cloquet/) - The current I-35/MN 33 interchange is an odd configuration, with the ramps favoring traffic to/from I-35 South and the ramps to/from 35 North almost as an afterthought. The result has been an intersection with several crashes and a poor safety record. This project will replace the ramp intersection with a roundabout, which will improve safety. The roundabout will retain the existing "free right" from the southbound 35 off-ramp to northbound 33.
I-35W over the Minnesota River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wbloomington/index.html) - Moved up to this year from 2020, this project will replace the I-35W bridges over the Minnesota River and West 106th St as well as reconstruct I-35W between West 106th and Cliff Rd. The project will separate northbound and southbound onto separate bridges over the river (shifted slightly east compared to the existing bridge) and add a bike/ped path to the northbound bridge. The interchange at Black Dog Rd will remain and be reconstructed. The new bridge will carry 8 lanes (6 through lanes plus 2 MnPASS lanes). Expected completion is late 2021.
MN 41 in Chaska (https://www.co.carver.mn.us/departments/public-works/program-delivery/road-construction-projects/county-road-123) - Carver County is leading a project to widen MN 41 to 4 lanes from US 212 north to CSAH 14.
MN 42 at Olmsted CSAH 9 near Eyota - I could not find a project website on this, but did found several references. MnDOT will build a roundabout at this intersection this year.
MN 65 between Blaine and East Bethel (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy65rci/) - This project will convert several intersections along MN 65 into Reduced-Conflict Intersections (or J-turns). In particular, the intersection at Viking Blvd/CSAH 22 will become a signalized RCI...the first in the state.
MN 72 at the Rainy River (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/baudette-bridge/index.html) in Baudette - This project will replace the International bridge connecting MN 72 to ON 11 with a new bridge just upstream (southeast) of the existing bridge.
MN 95 at 21st Ave N in Princeton (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/2017/princeton/) (west of US 169) - This project will build a roundabout at the intersection.
US 169 at MN 41/CSAH 78 and at Scott CSAH 14 (http://www.scottcountymn.gov/608/US-169-TH-41CH-78-Interchange-Design-Pro) - This is a county-led (and primarily funded) project to add an interchange on US 169 at MN 41/CSAH 78 and an overpass in the vicinity of CSAH 14. Combined with construction of planned frontage roads and adjacent access closures, this will bring the freeway section on US 169 south to 133rd St W (but not all the way to CSAH 14), where the intersection will be converted to RIRO on each side. The interchange at MN 41/CSAH 78 is planned to be a diverging diamond. At CSAH 14, an overpass over US 169 will be built just north of CSAH 14, with the existing intersection converted into a pair of Right-In/Right-Outs (RIRO). Construction is expected to run through 2020.
US 169 in Champlin (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169champlin/) - This project will replace the bridges over Elm Creek, realign US 169 at West River Rd to smooth the curve (and eliminate what is effectively a TOTSO), and convert the West River Rd and Dean Ave intersections into a single, traditional 4-way intersection. The intersection at Dowlin St will also be removed.
I-494 in South St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494invergroveheights/index.html) - As part of a pavement/bridge repair project, MnDOT will add an auxiliary lane on westbound I-494 between Hardeman Ave and 7th Ave. What this means in layman's terms is 4 lanes westbound from US 10/61 to US 52. The project will run through 2019.
Lastly, here are some upcoming/future projects (including some unfunded projects):
US 10 in Wadena (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/wadena/) - Planned for 2019, this project will reconstruct an 8-block leg of US 10 through Wadena. The reconstruction will accommodate a future potential 4-lane cross-section for US 10 by building the shoulders wide enough to be restriped as travel lanes.
MN 13 at Scott CSAH 21 in Prior Lake (https://clients.bolton-menk.com/movingforward13-21/) - A joint MnDOT/Scott County project will build a multilane roundabout at this busy intersection in 2019.
US 14 between Owatonna and Dodge Center (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy14/) - This long-standing project is currently unfunded, but would fill the last gap in a 4-lane US 14 between Mankato and Rochester. The approved plan is for a freeway-grade facility being located parallel and just south of the DM&E tracks. The Steele CSAH 43 intersection would be upgraded to an interchange, and new interchanges would be built at Dodge CSAH 3 and a relocated MN 56 (that would also tie into CSAH 5).
MN 23 between New London and Paynesville (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23gapsnewlondonpaynesville/index.html) and between Paynesville and Richmond (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23gappaynesvillerichmond/index.html) - MnDOT has preliminary designs to widen these two segment of MN 23 to 4 lanes, which would complete a 4-lane corridor between Willmar and St. Cloud. Both segments are currently unfunded, though.
MN 29/MN 55 near Glenwood (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/glenwoodoverpass/) - Not currently funded, the plan is to replace the existing at-grade intersection with a bridge on MN 29 over both MN 55 and the adjacent Canadian Pacific tracks. An improved 160th St would make the connection between the two routes.
I-35/I-535/US 53 in Duluth (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/twin-ports-interchange/index.html) - This project would fully reconstruct the I-35/I-535/US 53 "Can of Worms" interchange in Duluth, which has several deficient bridges. The design would change a bit as well. Full freeway-to-freeway movements are retained between I-35 and I-535, with both left exits being eliminated from I-35 and replaced with right-side exits. Ramps connecting to/from US 53 will be relocated somewhat to reduce the amount of bridges, but a traffic signal would remain where the northbound 35 ramp to US 53 intersects southbound 53...this signal, however, would not be on top of I-35 but instead where a "more typical" northbound off-ramp would be located. The project will also reconfigure the I-535/Garfield Ave interchange (design TBD) and will also reconstruct the US 53 bridges to the northwest of the Can of Worms...possibly to include some earthen fill in between city blocks to reduce the length of bridge. It appears that MnDOT has finally lined up some funding...construction is expected to start in 2019 but will take 4 years.
I-35W/I-494 in Bloomington (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494and35winterchange/index.html) - Arguably the most congested interchange in the state, reconstructing the 35W/494 interchange is seen as a high priority but an expensive endeavor. A turbine-style interchange (except retaining a loop ramp for SB 35W to EB 494) is favored. Officials are trying to find funding to build the first phase of the project, which would add a 2-lane turbine ramp for NB 35W to WB 494 traffic. I've seen the cost estimate for that range anywhere from $35 million to $85 million.
MN 36 in North St. Paul (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy36study/index.html) - As part of the vision to complete a MN 36 freeway between I-35W and I-694, the last two at-grade intersections (at Century Ave/MN 120 and Hadley Ave) would be converted to interchanges. The Hadley interchange is fully funded for 2019 construction and will be a folded-diamond to the west with roundabouts at the ramp terminals. The Century/120 interchange is still unfunded but will likely be some sort of tight diamond interchange.
US 71 at Hubbard CSAH 15 in Park Rapids (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/hwy71-parkrapids/index.html) - Now bumped to 2019, this project will rebuild the intersection as a roundabout.
US 169 at 101st Ave N in Brooklyn Park (http://projects.srfconsulting.com/hwy169and101st/Default.aspx) - A project tentatively scheduled for 2020 would build an interchange here, extending the freeway section on US 169 further north (to 109th Ave N). The preliminary interchange design is for a folded-diamond to the north.
I-694 at Ramsey CSAH 49 (https://www.ramseycounty.us/residents/roads-transit/future-road-construction-projects/i-694rice-street-interchange)/Rice St (http://www.sehinc.com/online/rice694) - Reconstruction and upgrading of this interchange has been a high priority for Ramsey County for years, but has been stymied until recently. It has also gone through several designs. The current design, now expected to begin construction in 2019, is for a modified SPUI similar to what was recently built at MN 36/Rice St, except with a roundabout where the ramps meet Rice St.
Why does US 53 need much of an interchange at all with 35? I would think a more basic interchange would be sufficient.
Because it meets 35 directly at 535 and is technically freeway (disregarding the existing signal at the ramps) for the first mile or so up the bluff.
Quote from: froggie on April 09, 2018, 09:53:34 AM
New construction for 2018:
Thank you for your excellent information, Froggie.
I have two "newbie" questions - please bear with me:
1. It seems like every couple of years, MnDoT builds a new interchange, extending the freeway portion of 169 two or three miles closer to Mankato. Are there any plans to make 169 a freeway all the way to Mankato?
2. Has any serious consideration been given to making US-52 a freeway all the way to Rochester?
I know MnDoT doesn't have the funds for these projects, but how likely would they be if the legislature and governor finally raised the gas tax enough to give MnDoT the money it needed?
I would say 'yes' to both questions with the caveat that it's not an aggressive plan to fully convert either route to full freeway access control. They are upgrading "as needed". And I see some recent interchanges have cheaped out with some 'jughandle' ramp designs.
US 169 through St Peter is presents an especially large challenge for developing that corridor. There's topography, wetlands, a large river and city parks in the way of any potential option.
The only way I think we'd ever get a full US-169 freeway from the Twin Cities to Mankato would be by bypassing St. Peter to the west. However, I dunno how feasible that is environmentally/topographically, not to mention such a project would probably be quite expensive.
Thus, I doubt it's happening any time soon.
1) No. It would be desirable in some circles, but would be extremely difficult to do in the river bottoms south of Le Sueur. Getting a freeway through or around St. Peter would also be very difficult.
There's a general plan/goal to extend the freeway to Belle Plaine, but that's largely locally driven.
2) Yes. This has been a stated long-term goal of both MnDOT and most of the local jurisdictions. It also has the highest traffic volumes of any of MnDOT's non-Metro/non-Interstate corridors (only I-94 to St. Cloud has higher volumes outside the Metro).
Depending on how much the legislature raised the gas tax (or license tabs or the motor vehicle sales tax), you might see an additional interchange project or three. But I would hazard a bet that you'd see a lot more pavement and bridge projects instead, especially if it was a small tax increase as system preservation tends to be MnDOT's highest priority and is also underfunded.
Quote from: froggie on April 12, 2018, 09:50:52 AM
2) Yes. This has been a stated long-term goal of both MnDOT and most of the local jurisdictions. It also has the highest traffic volumes of any of MnDOT's non-Metro/non-Interstate corridors (only I-94 to St. Cloud has higher volumes outside the Metro).
How much work needs to be done to finish this project? Are we just a couple of interchanges away, or is there still a lot of work left?
Again, thanks to all of you who answered my previous posting.
Quite a lot. Most major junctions have been grade separated and turned into interchanges, but there's still quite a few crossings and RIRO-type intersections with minor side roads and driveways. There is also an at-grade railroad crossing north of Cannon Falls that would need addressing.
To summarize, here is what would be needed for US 52 from north to south:
- Addressing a southbound RIRO at Inver Grove Trail (south of Dakota CSAH 56)
- 16 miles from MN 55 East to Dakota CSAH 86, including an interchange at Dakota CSAH 66
- The above-mentioned railroad crossing near Cannon Falls as well as a farm field access not far north of that rail crossing.
- 16 miles from south of Cannon Falls to Zumbrota, including interchanges at MN 57 and Goodhue CSAH 7 and addressing the very substandard ramps at the Goodhue CSAH 9 interchange
- 7 miles from MN 58 to the Goodhue/Olmsted County line
- Addressing the I-90 interchange
With all of that, you would have a full US 52 freeway from I-94 to I-90. There may be additional interchanges considered in addition to the three I mentioned above.
Are there any plans to upgrade US 63 between I-90 and US 52?
^ The city/county/MPO still have it in their long-range plan, yes.
Quote from: froggie on April 12, 2018, 10:25:42 PM
^ The city/county/MPO still have it in their long-range plan, yes.
What more are they planning to do with it? There are already three new interchanges between 52 and 90, so is it going to be a full freeway conversion?
Two new interchanges. CSAH 16 was a rebuild of a previously existing interchange.
Their long range plan is for a freeway conversion, but there are two notable sticking points: how to address MN 30 West given its proximity to the I-90 interchange, and what to do in the 60th Ave SW vicinity.
The Minneapolis Star Tribune has an article about the latest efforts to upgrade the I-494 / I-35W interchange. Here's a link:
http://www.startribune.com/suburbs-look-for-state-funding-to-renovate-i-494-i-35w-interchange/479817103/
A full upgrade to the interchange is estimated to cost $300 Million, but as Froggie said up thread, the first phase would cost $85 Million. Legislators are hoping to fund the upgrades as part of plans to extend bus rapid transit down 35W to Burnsville.
Corridors of Commerce grants awarded for 2018:
-Freeway conversion of most of US 169 in Elk River, though this will not include modification to the existing US 10/MN 101 interchange.
-Expansion of I-94 to six lanes from St. Michael to Albertville.
-Two separately submitted projects on I-494 in Bloomington, which most dramatically finally includes the first phase of upgrade to the 494/35W interchange.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/18/05/1-award.html
All four of these being metro area projects (the criteria making the Elk River and Albertville projects "outstate" allowed for those to be selected) has already rankled some, particularly the US 14 commission in southern Minnesota.
There's a couple of things they possibly could have done along US 14, though most of what's easily broken down is between New Ulm and Nicollet. Because of the chosen design between Owatonna and Dodge Center (a new-alignment freeway south of the DM&E tracks), that would have to be done all in one fell swoop...probably too big for a Corridors of Commerce grant. They probably could have thrown a bone to southern Minnesota by building a Courtland bypass or adding the interchange near Owatonna at Steele CSAH 43, but there's not much else that would have fit.
The first phase of 494/35W is a big thing. That interchange is arguably the most congested interchange in the state now, and one of the most dangerous.
Did some more digging into the Corridors of Commerce results. It's worth noting that they selected the top two-scoring projects each from the Metro and "Outstate". While many consider Sherburne and Wright Counties part of the Metro, they're in an Outstate MnDOT District (District 3) and those two projects scored top amongst all the non-Metro-Division projects.
Plenty of other big projects scored fairly high, though. Here are the top 11 Metro projects (scored above 600 out of 700) and the top 10 Outstate projects (scored 500-600 out of 700) considered. It should be noted that several of these overlap with or were superseded by others.
Top 11 Metro:
1) I-494 MnPASS lanes from France Ave to MN 77 (selected as noted previously, westbound MnPASS lane will end at I-35W)
2) I-494/I-35W interchange Phase 1 (selected as noted previously...adds a NB 35W to WB 494 flyover, though this appears to be the only part that got funded. The remainder of this project included two auxiliary lanes along EB 494: through the Bush Lake Rd interchange, and from France Ave to the SB 35W ramp)
3) I-94/MN 252 MnPASS lanes from Dowling Ave to MN 610
4) I-494 improvements from France Ave to I-35W (includes the flyover from #2 above plus the EB 494 auxiliary lane from France Ave to the SB 35W ramp)
5) I-494 eastbound auxiliary lane from MN 100 to I-35W (a longer version of the auxiliary lane in #4 that would effectively begin at MN 100)
6) US 169 MnPASS lanes from Scott CSAH 17 to I-494
7) I-494 improvements at E Bush Lake Rd and I-35W (includes both the flyover from #2 above plus the EB 494 auxiliary lane at Bush Lake Rd)
8) MN 65 convert to freeway from US 10 to 131st Ave NE (does not include improvements at US 10, but would build interchanges at 99th, 109th, and 117th, an overpass at 93rd, and extend a west-side frontage/backage road, effectively an extension of Ulysses, from 93rd to 109th)
9) I-494 improvements between E Bush Lake Rd and I-35W (includes ONLY the eastbound auxiliary lanes mentioned above at E Bush Lake Rd and from France Ave to SB 35W)
10) I-494 eastbound auxiliary lane from France Ave to the SB 35W ramp (ONLY this auxiliary lane as described above)
11) I-94 interchange reconstruction at MN 280 (this would relocate EB 94 and reconstruct the interchange into a trumpet with the EB 94 on-ramp as the loop, allowing access from 280 to the Cretin Ave exit. The 280/Franklin Ave interchange would also be revised for "better freight connections".)
Top 10 Outstate:
1) US 169 convert to freeway from US 10 to 211th Ave NW (selected as noted previously, builds full interchanges at Main St, School St, and 193rd and a half-interchange at 197th. Does not include improvements at US 10.)
2) I-94 6-lane widening from MN 241 to Wright CSAH 19 (selected as noted previously, also rebuilds the interchanges at MN 241, widens the MN 241 bridge over I-94, and adds a loop ramp from WB 94 to WB 241)
3) US 169 convert to freeway in Elk River (a partial version of #1 above, this would build the interchanges at Main St and School St)
4) I-94 6-lane widening from MN 241 to Wright CSAH 19 plus interchanges (same as #2 above but includes an EB on-ramp from CSAH 19 and an EB C/D road between CSAH 19 and CSAH 37)
5) US 14 Owatonna to Dodge Center (the top-scoring Outstate project *NOT* in District 3, this project would complete a 4-lane freeway between Owatonna (CSAH 43 in particular) and Dodge Center, with interchanges at Steele CSAH 3 and a relocated MN 56 North)
6) MN 23 Willmar to St. Cloud (would fill the 4-lane gaps on both sides of Paynesville)
7) I-35 at I-535/US 53 (reconstruction of the "Can of Worms" interchange, including the I-35/27th Ave W interchange and possibly the I-535/Garfield Ave interchange)
8) MN 23 Paynesville to Richmond (a limited part of #6 above, this would fill the Paynesville to Richmond 4-lane gap)
9) I-94 Albertville to Clearwater (6-lane widening)
10) US 14 Dodge CSAH 16 to Dodge Center (a limited extent variant of #5 above, this would build the 4-lane freeway relocation of US 14 between Dodge CSAH 16 and the existing freeway around Dodge Center, including the interchanges at CSAH 3 and MN 56 North. A temporary connection would be built at Dodge CSAH 16.)
Kind of shows how deficient 494 through Bloomington is when submissions for it make up more than half of that list...
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 01, 2018, 04:56:33 PM
-Freeway conversion of most of US 169 in Elk River, though this will not include modification to the existing US 10/MN 101 interchange.
According to the city engineer on the City of Elk River's facebook page, he stated that there won't be any stoplights from the Mississippi River to 197th Ave. So that would imply removing the stoplight at the Hwy 10 interchange, which makes sense not to have a single stoplight in this stretch. Maybe the project will include a WB Hwy 10 to SB Hwy 101 cloverleaf loop. The details will be presented at future open houses/meetings. I am following this closely as I work in Elk River and use 169 often.
This is what's proposed at 10/169/101 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/projects/169elkriver/pdf/fig4A_proposed_improvements.pdf). However, MnDOT's release on the Corridors of Commerce grant suggests that the improvements at 10/169/101 would *NOT* be built as part of the grant. So it's hard to tell who's correct.
Quote from: froggie on May 04, 2018, 02:23:33 PM
This is what's proposed at 10/169/101 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/projects/169elkriver/pdf/fig4A_proposed_improvements.pdf). However, MnDOT's release on the Corridors of Commerce grant suggests that the improvements at 10/169/101 would *NOT* be built as part of the grant. So it's hard to tell who's correct.
There is no way that ever gets built as shown, that would be one of the most extravagant systems interchanges in the state They are going to need another $150+ million to build that and if that money is sitting around, it's not going to a single interchange in Elk River. To eliminate the stoplights at 101/169/10 they are going to have to implement a low cost solution to complete the conversion.
Sticking to the corridors of commerce topic:
For the I-494 MnPASS lanes from France Ave to MN 77 (westbound MnPASS lane will end at I-35W), this will dramatically change the corridor particularly between I-35W and MN 77. One would assume because the bridges at Nicollet, progressive railroad, Portland and 12th Avenue are too narrow to fit another lane without going to zero shoulders under them that they will all be replaced. Definitely interested to see if this will prompt the reconfiguration of interchanges in this stretch: closure of Nicollet with removal of the ramps, a full SPUI at Portland, and closure of the ramps at 12th. This will dramatically change the corridor if this occurs. Add in Richfield's project for the 77th Street tunnel and there will be quite a change for the east sides of Richfield/Bloomington.
Per the Elk River city engineer (who submitted the 169 proposal), the approved funding will include modifications at the 10/169/101 interchange to eliminate the existing signal. What form those improvements will take has not been finalized yet.
I've had conversations with several Twin Cities residents that many of the overpasses along 494 are too narrow to squeeze the lanes in. The bridges probably will be replaced for this, but I have doubts that they will include the interchange improvements.
Probably they won't be wide enough for additional regular lanes either, just those stupid Lexus Lanes.
As for Elk River, one idea would be to replace the northwest ramp with a loop and then rely on Main Street for the movements between 10 west and 169 north.
Quote from: Mdcastle on May 15, 2018, 06:30:07 PM
As for Elk River, one idea would be to replace the northwest ramp with a loop and then rely on Main Street for the movements between 10 west and 169 north.
While we're on the topic of shunting traffic onto Main Street, they should eliminate the at-grade left turn from EB 10 to NB 169. That's a scary intersection these days.
The big problem with Main Street is it still has a 4-way stop between 10 and 169.
Yes, hence my suggestion. I really don't think it's a good idea to leave any crossing movements. The unsignalized eastbound to northbound relies on the Main Street traffic signal, and formerly the one at County 39, to create breaks in traffic. Now that the County 39 signal is gone there are no breaks northbound.
Depending on how fancy they want to get, they could also rebuild the railroad overpass to build the NW ramp and loop, and/or build a third river span to build the SE loop and ramp. Either would be directly incorporated if in some fantasy they do a full buildout of the final design.
Scott County plans to convert just about every last traffic signal they own to flashing yellow arrows this year. Most will get flashing yellow arrows in all directions except for two in downtown Shakopee that will remain protected only, two in Shakopee where the side street left turns lanes will remain permissive only, and 9 where one or more of the side streets doesn't have dedicated turn lanes. If they wanted to they could use the flashing yellow arrow doghouse design, but they aren't.
The funding to finish US 14 from Owatonna to Dodge Center is finally in place with the new bonding bill passed by the state and will be signed by the governor after some questions about whether he would.
Also, MN 252 freeway conversion with MnPass lanes in Brooklyn Center and MN 23 widening from New London to Paynesville and then to Richmond.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/18/05/30-corridors-of-commerce.html
Transit advocates had bemoaned the bill because it had no money for any public transit projects.
Wow, MN-252 is finally going to get the upgrades it's needed for at least 20 years, now? I'll believe it when I see it.
Additional transportation projects in the bonding bill:
Anoka County — Thurston Boulevard: $15,000,000 (Interchange and signal removal at US 10)
Anoka County — Ramsey Boulevard Rail Grade Separation: $2,000,000
Brooklyn Park — Highway 169/101st Ave: $4,000,000 (New interchange on 169)
Carver County — Hwy 101 Turnback: $9,000,000 (Reconstruction of Trunk Highway 101 from Flying Cloud Drive to Pioneer Trail, this would complete the 101 turnback in Carver County except the portion shared with Hennepin/Carver from County Road 62 to MN 5)
Chisago County — Hwy 8 Reconstruction: $3,000,000 (If anyone knows more chime in)
Dayton — Brockton Interchange: $13,500,000 (New interchange north of 610 and south of 101, potential to go forward with MnDOT's unbonded concrete overlay. Dayton is growing so fast it's going to double it's population between the 2010 and 2020 census)
Foley — Hwy 23 Safety Improvements ($300,000 cash): $500,000 (The improvements are scheduled for the year 2022 and include a roundabout at Highway 23 and 8th Avenue, added lighting, turn lanes and improved pedestrian pathways and crossings)
Goodview — Railroad Crossing Quiet Zone: $330,000 (If anyone knows which specific crossings chime in)
Hennepin County — CSAH 9—494: $4,860,000 + (THB) $4,860,000 (Adds dual left turn lanes at Rockford Road and 494 interchange in Plymouth)
Inver Grove Heights — Argenta Trail 70th Street: $6,100,000 (Continuing to extend County Road 63 [Argenta] towards 494 and reconstructing County Road 26 [Lone Oak/70th] to Trunk Highway 3)
La Crescent — Wagon Wheel Trail: $2,500,000 (Funding for a trail bridge over Highway 14 which will ultimately create a trail connection between La Crescent and La Crosse)
Loretto/Medina/Wayzata — Rail Crossing Safety: $1,200,000 (To go towards creating quiet zones at Townline Road and County Road 19 in Loretto, Arrowhead Drive in Medina, and Lake Street/Barry Ave in Wayzata)
Mankato — Hwy 169 Levee Reconstruction (THB): $830,000 (City of Mankato/North Mankato looking for funding to fill in a leeve gap at 169 to avoid FEMA from designating new areas as floodplain requiring the purchase of flood insurance)
Minneapolis — Upper Harbor Terminal: $15,000,000 (Not all of it will go toward transportation but a portion of it has already been identified for improvements at the Doweling/94 interchange and surrounding local streets)
Minnesota Commercial Railway — Rice Creek Bridge: $1,550,000 (Design funding for a replacement rail bridge over Rice Creek in New Brighton)
Moorhead — 21st Street Grade Separation: $6,000,000 (At 21st Street and Main Street grade separating the rail crossings and creating a Wye to eliminate railroad back ups)
Pope County — Glenwood Railroad Separation (THB): $10,500,000 (Grade separation for MN 55 at MN 29 and the CP rail crossing)
Wadena — Hwy 10 Enviro Cleanup (THB): $5,000,000 (Highway 10 is being rebuilt in 2019, an extensive amount of contamination was found that will require all of the water pumped from pits created to place water, sewer, and drainage pipes to be filtered before releasing it)
Wakefield — 200th Street: $600,000 (Reconstruction of an approximately 2.7 mile portion of 200th Street)
Feel free to chime in if you have corrections or added information
That US 8 bill is a big mystery. I can find no projects on MnDOT's site and the actual bill is literally nothing more than one sentence with no references to what part of US 8 is involved. Given the relatively small amount of money involved, it's certainly not going to be a broad-scale project.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 06, 2018, 02:49:01 AM
That US 8 bill is a big mystery. I can find no projects on MnDOT's site and the actual bill is literally nothing more than one sentence with no references to what part of US 8 is involved. Given the relatively small amount of money involved, it's certainly not going to be a broad-scale project.
FWIW, the mileage in MN is a lot shorter compared to its immediate eastern neighbor, so I wouldn't be surprised if WI were also involved in converting US 8 into some sort of freeway/expressway combo.
Quote from: Henry on June 06, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 06, 2018, 02:49:01 AM
That US 8 bill is a big mystery. I can find no projects on MnDOT's site and the actual bill is literally nothing more than one sentence with no references to what part of US 8 is involved. Given the relatively small amount of money involved, it's certainly not going to be a broad-scale project.
FWIW, the mileage in MN is a lot shorter compared to its immediate eastern neighbor, so I wouldn't be surprised if WI were also involved in converting US 8 into some sort of freeway/expressway combo.
But the money needed to truly fix US-8 in Minnesota (i.e. four-lanes and bypasses) is going to cost a hell of a lot more than $3 million, and I really can't envision cash-strapped WisDOT pitching in to help.
The US 8 money relates to studies MnDOT did about a decade ago. The $3M is specifically for ROW acquisition and preliminary (possibly final) design for 4-laning US 8 from the end of the existing 4-lane near US 61 to Karmel Ave in Chisago City.
Some comments on other projects:
- The Thurston Ave project (https://clients.bolton-menk.com/hwy10/) will effectively extend the US 10/169 freeway section to just west of Anoka Technical College. The project has 4 main parts: a southern frontage road between Thurston Ave and Main St, an underpass at Fairoak Ave, an odd interchange at Thurston Ave (essentially a SPUI with a roundabout instead of a signal), and adding roundabouts at the Main St interchange ramp terminals. Tentative go-ahead for construction is 2021-22...articles on the project suggest that MnDOT will do as much as it can with the funding that is acquired by then. This bonding bill addition reduces the funding gap to about $24M.
- The $13.5M in Dayton isn't specifically for the Brockton interchange on I-94 per se but instead is for local roads related to the interchange.
- The I-94/CSAH 9 project will replace the CSAH 9 bridge over 494. It's the only way they'll be able to add the left turn lanes.
- The Glenwood rail separation (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/projects/glenwoodoverpass/) will bridge MN 29 over MN 55 and the adjacent Canadian Pacific tracks. Access between MN 29 and MN 55 will be via an upgraded 160th St.
Minor detail I noticed a while ago, and one I just thought of again: anyone have any idea why US-61 (North) is not mentioned on the Mounds Blvd exit (Exit 243) (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9539631,-93.0793793,3a,75y,63.6h,91.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKbjMtNc9WTW5MxAl0v2_6w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) on I-94? Seems like an omission in error to me, even if MnDOT wants to rid themselves of maintaining US-61 on surface roads in St. Paul.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 07, 2018, 07:00:27 AM
Minor detail I noticed a while ago, and one I just thought of again: anyone have any idea why US-61 (North) is not mentioned on the Mounds Blvd exit (Exit 243) (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9539631,-93.0793793,3a,75y,63.6h,91.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKbjMtNc9WTW5MxAl0v2_6w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) on I-94? Seems like an omission in error to me, even if MnDOT wants to rid themselves of maintaining US-61 on surface roads in St. Paul.
I assumed it was because it was redundant to I-35E and they wanted to discourage people from using the surface street. I can't ever remember there being a mention of US 61 at the eastbound exit to Mounds. Until the recent I-94 rebuild project there were no US 61 reassurance markers on the I-94 duplex either, but those have been added now.
The area around the I-35W projectisn't very saf so I don't know how much wandering around with a large camera I'm going to be doing, and I'm not too excited about it since it does virtually nothing too fix the congestion problem in the area, but here's one of the former downtown exits.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1810/42832614291_eef4a2a81c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28fYkXR)IMG_1491[1] (https://flic.kr/p/28fYkXR) by North Star Highways (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
Quoteand I'm not too excited about it since it does virtually nothing too fix the congestion problem in the area
I'd disagree with this. The end project will have some significant operational improvements, including additional lanes in a few spots and a permanent 8+2HO/T from the Crosstown to the downtown split (instead of just to 42nd St).
Almost six years to the day after the flood that closed MN 210 in Jay Cooke for five years, MN 23 in the same area was washed out last night by significant flooding in NE Minnesota/NW Wisconsin.
News article with some pictures and more information.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/06/17/flash-flooding-northeastern-minnesota-northwestern-wisconsin-carlton-county-superior
It looks like MN 23 will be out of commission for some time. Weeks or more. It's not that heavily travelled compared to I-35 of course, so it's not the worst thing to ever happen.
In the latest round of GPS dumbassery...
MNDot's official Facebook page shared that a motorist drove around barriers and damaged a freshly-laid concrete part of a US 63 rebuild north of Rochester.
Yay.
Damn. I'd love to see photos of that.
Quote from: Mdcastle on June 16, 2018, 07:55:44 AM
The area around the I-35W projectisn't very saf so I don't know how much wandering around with a large camera I'm going to be doing, and I'm not too excited about it since it does virtually nothing too fix the congestion problem in the area, but here's one of the former downtown exits.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1810/42832614291_eef4a2a81c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28fYkXR)IMG_1491[1] (https://flic.kr/p/28fYkXR) by North Star Highways (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
what is this a picture of?
Quote from: BickendanDamn. I'd love to see photos of that.
KARE11 did a story (https://www.kare11.com/article/news/driver-goes-through-wet-concrete-causing-100k-damage/89-570418379) on it. It appears to be more a case of old age driver confusion than "GPS dumbassery".
Quote from: texaskdogwhat is this a picture of?
Here. (https://goo.gl/maps/vfJiGgeNbUT2) As part of the I-35W reconstruction between 42nd St and downtown Minneapolis, they're completely ripping up the connector to 4th/5th Avenues and adding bus-only ramps between the future HO/T lanes and 12th St. The photo is taken from the 15th St overpass.
I was browsing online in relation to the announced corridors for commerce funding which would widen 494 by adding a MnPass lanes and rebuild the 35W/494 interchange in a turbine configuration. Looking back there appears to be a visualization of 494 posted online circa 2007, which included widening 494 to ten lanes each direction and going forward with the 2001 494/35W interchange study recommendation of using full flyovers. Does anyone know if the former visualization was apart of a broader study or plan to rebuild 494?
Quote from: froggie on July 05, 2018, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: BickendanDamn. I'd love to see photos of that.
KARE11 did a story (https://www.kare11.com/article/news/driver-goes-through-wet-concrete-causing-100k-damage/89-570418379) on it. It appears to be more a case of old age driver confusion than "GPS dumbassery".
Quote from: texaskdogwhat is this a picture of?
Here. (https://goo.gl/maps/vfJiGgeNbUT2) As part of the I-35W reconstruction between 42nd St and downtown Minneapolis, they're completely ripping up the connector to 4th/5th Avenues and adding bus-only ramps between the future HO/T lanes and 12th St. The photo is taken from the 15th St overpass.
Is the old MN 65 mainline into downtown getting rebuilt then?
Quote from: n0axI was browsing online in relation to the announced corridors for commerce funding which would widen 494 by adding a MnPass lanes and rebuild the 35W/494 interchange in a turbine configuration. Looking back there appears to be a visualization of 494 posted online circa 2007, which included widening 494 to ten lanes each direction and going forward with the 2001 494/35W interchange study recommendation of using full flyovers. Does anyone know if the former visualization was apart of a broader study or plan to rebuild 494?
Not quite 10 lanes in each direction...I believe that 2001 plan was for 6 each way between 100 and 35W. And yes, it was part of a broader study to rebuild 494 between 394 and the Minnesota River. Of course, MnDOT didn't have the ~$1B it would have taken to implement even the revised 2001 study (revised from what was proposed in the early '90s), so they've been chopping away piecemeal at it. The widenings between 394 and 100 and the later interchange revisions at 169 were the result of this "chopping away piecemeal".
Quote from: BickendanIs the old MN 65 mainline into downtown getting rebuilt then?
Yes...that's what you see in the photo that
texaskdog referenced....that's the rebuilding.
Quote from: Bickendan on July 04, 2018, 03:32:22 PM
Damn. I'd love to see photos of that.
Image of the ruined concrete on US63 in Rochester.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg3NOkcWsAAJysg.jpg)
Courtesy of https://twitter.com/mndotsoutheast/status/1012693540718211072
I noticed today that MnDOT is installing new alternate I-35 route designations.
(https://i.imgur.com/RQSxYO1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/crJrK24.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YGIQcZi.jpg)
They were posted on almost every exit from the Iowa border to the Elko/New Market exit. I don't think either I-90 exit or the US-14 exits had them. There are probably others.
Some of them were missing the yellow tab on top, such as this one from the NB offramp to MN-251. Note that they have the wrong direction installed on this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/lZxzthK.jpg)
Catching up with Iowa's "Emergency Detour" and Wisconsin's "Alternate" escape routes.
I-94 has a few in Douglas County, but I think those may have been county installs.
Seems MNDOT's variation is rather wordy. Wouldn't the placards normally say "ALTERNATE" or "ALT"?
^ Appears to stem from a research and pilot project (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/research/TS/2015/201543.pdf) MnDOT conducted with a consultant in 2014-15. The study included I-94 through District 3 which, depending on where THM394 saw the Douglas County signs, might explain those signs.
[EDIT] Here's a MnDOT press release (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d4/newsrels/17/06/7i94.html) about the ALT I-94 signs. Looks like MnDOT extended the I-94 alternate route signage into District 4, which definitely would explain those Douglas County signs.
On my way up north, I also found this sign on NB MN-101:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3j9Na1U.jpg&hash=526cacddb90b5ae4b237fda2e92a4c2ed5afa36a)
Quote from: jakeroot on July 15, 2018, 03:50:41 PM
Seems MNDOT's variation is rather wordy. Wouldn't the placards normally say "ALTERNATE" or "ALT"?
They appear to be basing them on a recent FHWA interpretation on alternate route/incident bypass signing. (https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/pdf/6_09_42.pdf)
Iowa has at least one assembly on mainline westbound I-80 that follows the interpretation - IIRC it is before the exit for US 71.
The four routes around Mille Lacs Lake (plus a county road) have now been designated as a scenic byway:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/18/07/18-new-scenic-byway.html
Well the rest of Iowa, WI, IL and IN seem to be in violation of that now... (Given for IL and WI since they use ALT and Alternate banners respectively)
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on July 22, 2018, 08:14:19 PM
The four routes around Mille Lacs Lake (plus a county road) have now been designated as a scenic byway:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/18/07/18-new-scenic-byway.html
I'm interested to see its special scenic route shield. If they've made a design and released it it wasn't in that article.
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 15, 2018, 03:34:34 PM
Catching up with Iowa's "Emergency Detour" and Wisconsin's "Alternate" escape routes.
And Illinois to a lesser extent, mainly for I-39
I was going through my pictures from a couple weeks ago, and I got to thinking when I came to this one. Is this the only example of a distance sign with a city more than 100+ miles away on a state-numbered highway? This is on MN-89 at its southern terminus west of Bemidji.
(https://i.imgur.com/j8b7Rjo.jpg)
If this isn't the only example, which other ones are there? (Besides the reverse in Roseau (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.8470079,-95.7684655,3a,75y,181.09h,78.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3wdpj91CieWoaefXv5NikQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), which lists Bemidji at 131 miles.)
There are a couple 100+ distance signs on MN 23 for Duluth. That's the only specific one I can think of, though I want to say I saw this on MN 7 and MN 65 as well.
When you mentioned MN-23 and Duluth I remembered that I even have a picture of one of them, too (this is right after the MN-95 junction):
(https://i.imgur.com/T4pdEuV.jpg)
Also, I realized that MN-61 almost certainly has one each direction for Duluth/Grand Marais. I haven't checked but that has to be at least 100 miles.
Ah, how the F did I forget MN 61? That one has a 151 for Duluth at its north beginning.
^ By "state numbered highway", I'm presuming you're excluding the Interstates. What about U.S. routes? They'd be signed in the same fashion as the state routes. And on that note, there's a "St Paul 127" coming off I-90 on US 14/61.
I did mean "excluding Interstate and US Routes" because I figured those are generally longer and more likely to use longer-distance destinations due to their nature.
Correct in the case of the Interstates. But at a fundamental level, the only difference between US and MN routes aside from the shield is that US routes were part of a coordinated system of uniform route numbers that cross state lines. It's true that the US routes were generally laid upon the more important routes of the time, but that wasn't always the case even then and certainly isn't today.
For example, even if it hadn't been dropped to a state route, nobody in their right mind would take 16 between Austin and La Crosse unless they had a stop along one of the towns enroute or they really weren't worried about time.
^Having driven most of southeast Minnesota's highways, I agree. 16 is more of a Sunday drive route than a backbone corridor.
Was tipped off to this on TravelMapping, but MnDOT has both turned back MN 275 and extended MN 119 south to US 212 in Dawson. Here is the press release (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/newsrels/18/05/2-lac-qui-parle.html).
Both changes were recommended in the recent statewide Jurisdictional Transfer study.
The MN 110 changeover has begun, with all the MN 62 reassurance markers now installed but the overhead signs are almost entirely untouched except for the ones along the new 62/55 duplex.
Also of note, a new auxiliary lane was built on WB MN 62 between Valley View Road and northbound MN 100 in Edina. Hope that will help some of the awful weekday afternoon crunch on that stretch.
Quote from: froggie on August 03, 2018, 05:34:37 PM
Was tipped off to this on TravelMapping, but MnDOT has both turned back MN 275 and extended MN 119 south to US 212 in Dawson. Here is the press release (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/newsrels/18/05/2-lac-qui-parle.html).
Both changes were recommended in the recent statewide Jurisdictional Transfer study.
Additions (by means of transfer) to the system are so uncommon nowadays. Very interesting. I wonder if it's going to end up like MN-42 and not have mile markers on the new southern section.
^ This sort of thing, while uncommon in general, is certainly not unheard of. MnDOT will try to do such swaps whenever possible where they're taking over a new roadway. Part of it has to do with their state highway mileage cap in the state Constitution. But it's also fiscal in nature.
Another notable example from the Metro is when they took over MN 62 and what is now US 169 between 494 and 94/694 in the late 1980s. These had been Hennepin County freeways. In return, MnDOT gave several smaller state highways in the county to Hennepin County, including the former MN 81, 121, and 152.
M-28 in Michigan has these 100+ signposts.
This one is just west of the I-75 junction in Dafter (just south of Sault Ste. Marie):
(https://i.imgur.com/8ZDbShg.png)
At the junction with M-123 east of Newberry:
(https://i.imgur.com/vTGP1VR.png)
Westbound in Champion, MI (on a multiplex with US-41, but US-41 doesn't go to Wakefield).
(https://imgur.com/1VZ0v7O.png)
In Wakefield eastbound:
(https://imgur.com/GWPSdzQ.png)
Quote from: froggie on August 04, 2018, 08:26:10 AM
Another notable example from the Metro is when they took over MN 62 and what is now US 169 between 494 and 94/694 in the late 1980s. These had been Hennepin County freeways. In return, MnDOT gave several smaller state highways in the county to Hennepin County, including the former MN 81, 121, and 152.
MN-121 still exists, although shortened to go north only to W 58th St (this is at W 58th, taken May of last year.) The only evidence it still exists are the one reassurance shield at each end, though, since I-35W/MN-62 omit it from their signs.
(https://i.imgur.com/Dj7bbuU.jpg)
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 04, 2018, 09:13:56 AMM-28 in Michigan has these 100+ signposts.
They also exist in the lower peninsula, commonly thought of as less remote. Three examples culled from about 3000 pages of pattern-accurate sign panel detail sheets for non-freeway signing jobs:
M-65 14, West Branch 35, Cadillac 102
White Cloud 10, Baldwin 37, Traverse City 102
Owosso 21, St Johns 41, Grand Rapids 102
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 04, 2018, 02:49:07 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 04, 2018, 09:13:56 AMM-28 in Michigan has these 100+ signposts.
They also exist in the lower peninsula, commonly thought of as less remote. Three examples culled from about 3000 pages of pattern-accurate sign panel detail sheets for non-freeway signing jobs:
M-65 14, West Branch 35, Cadillac 102
White Cloud 10, Baldwin 37, Traverse City 102
Owosso 21, St Johns 41, Grand Rapids 102
Yes, well, I just need to stop you both here, because I was specifically asking about it as it happens in Minnesota only. Otherwise, I would've asked the question in a new thread in the general board. ;-)
Quote from: MNHighwayManMN-121 still exists, although shortened to go north only to W 58th St (this is at W 58th, taken May of last year.)
My point is that the vast bulk of MN 121 was decommissioned as part of the swap.
I took a road trip up to Duluth yesterday and did some roadgeeking on the way. This included going over that old iron bridge connecting WIS 105 to MN 39 where the car lane that looks like it was originally built for horses-and-buggies is on the lower level and the railroad uses the upper level. I also drove back and forth on MN 23 a few times over that bit where it crosses into and out of Wisconsin briefly, just to see if there was any visible sign of the state line apart from my Google Maps alert. (Only a fire number on a residence gave the game away.)
On the way home using I-35, traffic backed up badly twice, once for an accident and the other time for the construction around Pine City. At the second one, on Google Map traffic advice, I detoured into Pine City and used County 61 to miss several miles of back-up, and along the way, I found it's still got a cut-out US 61 shield at one point. It's exactly opposite the Pine City high school building. (This is southbound.)
Oh, and on the 100-mile plus topic on the guide signs... I went up there on WI-35, and found it started giving distances to Superior while still over 100 miles away.
Quote from: invincor on August 06, 2018, 11:03:14 AM
I detoured into Pine City and used County 61 to miss several miles of back-up, and along the way, I found it's still got a cut-out US 61 shield at one point. It's exactly opposite the Pine City high school building. (This is southbound.)
It's one of these. They've been put up by Pine, Carlton, and St. Louis counties to mark the old US-61. They're from 2012 (https://i.imgur.com/6mMVBVo.jpg).
(https://i.imgur.com/EcooXGW.jpg)
Yes, that's the type, except this one was just the 61 shield by itself. It didn't have the county highway marker or the "OLD" sign on it.
Quote from: invincor on August 06, 2018, 11:03:14 AM
I took a road trip up to Duluth yesterday and did some roadgeeking on the way. This included going over that old iron bridge connecting WIS 105 to MN 39 where the car lane that looks like it was originally built for horses-and-buggies is on the lower level and the railroad uses the upper level. I also drove back and forth on MN 23 a few times over that bit where it crosses into and out of Wisconsin briefly, just to see if there was any visible sign of the state line apart from my Google Maps alert. (Only a fire number on a residence gave the game away.)
On the way home using I-35, traffic backed up badly twice, once for an accident and the other time for the construction around Pine City. At the second one, on Google Map traffic advice, I detoured into Pine City and used County 61 to miss several miles of back-up, and along the way, I found it's still got a cut-out US 61 shield at one point. It's exactly opposite the Pine City high school building. (This is southbound.)
Oh, and on the 100-mile plus topic on the guide signs... I went up there on WI-35, and found it started giving distances to Superior while still over 100 miles away.
Several years ago that old bridge rumbled when you drove across it. I believe it was boards before they paved it (drove on it once after that too)
Come to think of it, why did Minnesota decommission US 61 once it hit I-35? They could've just hidden it like they've done with US 52 when it meets I-94 or US 12 through the Twin Cities metro. Then US 61 could've reemerged on the north side of Duluth and they wouldn't have had to replace all those signs with Minnesota 61 ones.
Quote from: invincor on August 10, 2018, 01:12:44 PM
Come to think of it, why did Minnesota decommission US 61 once it hit I-35? They could've just hidden it like they've done with US 52 when it meets I-94 or US 12 through the Twin Cities metro. Then US 61 could've reemerged on the north side of Duluth and they wouldn't have had to replace all those signs with Minnesota 61 ones.
No one's really sure. My research seems to indicate that 61 was actually mostly ghosted from Wyoming to Duluth and they still decommissioned it anyway. It was like MN was on a mission to dismantle as many redundant US routes as possible, even going as far as pressuring Wisconsin to accept a US 16 downgrade.
MN had petitioned for 61's elimination in 1971, but was denied then likely because I-35 was incomplete at that time.
So who decommed 16 first - SD or MN?
According to RVDroz's old website, Minnesota finished theirs first. But it was all submitted through and approved by AASHTO at the same time for all three states.
Quote from: froggie on August 10, 2018, 06:59:40 PM
According to RVDroz's old website, Minnesota finished theirs first. But it was all submitted through and approved by AASHTO at the same time for all three states.
IIRC, I-90 wasn't completed in Minnesota until late 1976 or sometime in 1977. A section that runs for an interchange or two on either side of Blue Earth, MN was the last to open. It was completed through South Dakota by then, except for possibly a tiny part by the Wyoming state line (this is west of Rapid City, SD, where US 16 diverges from it, anyways).
Mike
^ Mike, it was late 1978 when I-90 was completed near Blue Earth. The SD/MN/WI submission and AASHTO's approval on US 16 actually predated the completion by a few months. But MnDOT and WisDOT beat out SD on removing US 16 first.
I was surprised MN 110 has not been changed to MN 62 yet
Quote from: texaskdog on August 20, 2018, 01:13:56 PM
I was surprised MN 110 has not been changed to MN 62 yet
It has now.
Quote from: texaskdog on August 20, 2018, 01:13:56 PM
I was surprised MN 110 has not been changed to MN 62 yet
Yeah, signs have been up for a couple of weeks now. Haven't tried to get a good photo while driving on it #safety
High Mast LED streetlights are coming
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1845/29249676157_4f1701fc2c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LyGeFk)IMG_0494 (https://flic.kr/p/LyGeFk) by North Star Highways (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/), on Flickr
Quote from: bschultzy on August 20, 2018, 02:35:41 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 20, 2018, 01:13:56 PM
I was surprised MN 110 has not been changed to MN 62 yet
Yeah, signs have been up for a couple of weeks now. Haven't tried to get a good photo while driving on it #safety
I found this picture on reddit, which isn't specifically of the sign changes but does include one in the background. This is old MN-110 at Dodd Rd/MN-149, and you can see by the lack of fading around the 62 shield that MnDOT just removed the old 110 shield and put a new MN-62 one on the same green panel.
(https://i.redd.it/iz20d34viah11.jpg)
The signs on old 110 itself are patch jobs, but all-new signage with exit numbers was added along the MN 55 duplex. The mileage for the exits is based on MN 62.
Exit numbers...?
[citation needed]
The Vikings have a sponsorship deal with chewing tobacco? Losers.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 22, 2018, 09:04:02 AM
The Vikings have a sponsorship deal with chewing tobacco? Losers.
I hope you're just being sarcastic, because it's derived from the Scandinavian word
skål (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sk%C3%83%C2%A5l) meaning, roughly, "cheers!" Has nothing to do with the company by that name.
I should've used an emoji.
Looks like Scott County has selected a contractor and produced visualizations of the US-169 freeway conversion from TH-41 to CSAH-14 https://www.scottcountymn.gov/1778/US-169-TH-41CH-78-Interchange-Design-Pro (https://www.scottcountymn.gov/1778/US-169-TH-41CH-78-Interchange-Design-Pro). According to their website, stage one construction should begin sometime this September...
Quote from: froggie on August 21, 2018, 10:06:33 PM
Exit numbers...?
[citation needed]
I can concur. MN-55 West (Hiawatha) is Exit 115 (though the exit number is only posted on westbound 62), Bloomington Rd. is 116A, 5 West is 116B, 5 East is 116C, and 55 East/13 South is 117. Also, the gore signs on Crosstown Commons for the left exits off 62 West to 35W South and 62 East to 35W North got the exit numbers 111A and 111B respectively. And so far that's all for exit numbers on 62.
Saw the exit numbers for myself this past week while I was back on vacation. And it wasn't just 62 I saw exit numbers for....need to start a log to keep track of what does and what doesn't on the non-Interstates now...
I was in Brainerd this weekend, and I noticed a green Minnesota Business 371 sign. I'd never seen a sign like that before. Is this new, or are there others?
Quote from: discochris on September 09, 2018, 07:12:29 PM
I was in Brainerd this weekend, and I noticed a green Minnesota Business 371 sign. I'd never seen a sign like that before. Is this new, or are there others?
Those were installed when that section of 371 was relocated onto the bypass around 2000. There's also signed BUS MN 23 in Willmar, but those are white signs with green numbers for some reason.
^ Because the business route in Willmar is not a state highway and was signed locally before MnDOT created design specs for a business shield. Business 371 in Brainerd is still a state highway, though that may change once the current reconstruction plan is finished.
Quote from: froggie on September 06, 2018, 08:46:04 AM
Saw the exit numbers for myself this past week while I was back on vacation. And it wasn't just 62 I saw exit numbers for....need to start a log to keep track of what does and what doesn't on the non-Interstates now...
The ones I know of are:
US-52 through Rochester (the first non-interstate to get numbers)
US-169 Shakopee to Hennepin CSAH-1
MN-62 Fort Snelling to Mendota Heights, the left exits at Crosstown Commons
What others did you see?
52 at 55 also had an exit number. As do the first few exits on 610 coming off 94, but I believe that was intended as part of constructing that last segment west of County 81.
Others with exit numbers:
US 10/61 along the duplex
10 at 35W (north junction)
^ Not every interchange (CR 19 for example), but yes I recall a few of the 10/61 interchanges too.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 11, 2018, 02:48:44 PM
Others with exit numbers:
US 10/61 along the duplex
10 at 35W (north junction)
Cool... and the 10 at 35W one is understandable, since they're making sure left exits are properly signed.
A thing I have yet to see are any expressway exits or "standalone" exits numbered.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 12, 2018, 04:14:46 AM
A thing I have yet to see are any expressway exits or "standalone" exits numbered.
MNDoT told me on Facebook that they would eventually number most of those, too.
The latest batch of 2-lanes being increased to 60 is going into effect. MN 4 and MN 48 are two of those being upgraded this week.
Quote from: bschultzy on August 20, 2018, 02:35:41 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 20, 2018, 01:13:56 PM
I was surprised MN 110 has not been changed to MN 62 yet
Yeah, signs have been up for a couple of weeks now. Haven't tried to get a good photo while driving on it #safety
We were on it on 8/12 NB 35E crossing MN 110 and it still said 110, no sign of 62.
I drove through that area a few times on Labor Day weekend, and by then it was all "62" as far as I could see.
I have a question about US 69 (and to a lesser extent US 65)-
I know that 35 is only a few miles away but I wonder why 69 was never extended along MN 13. To me it only makes sense. The end of 69 kinda just hangs in Albert Lea.
The end of 69 is at what was formerly US 16. MnDOT, whatever the case was, had no interest and saw no reason in (re)extending* 69 when 16 was decommissioned.
* - prefaced with a (re) because US 69 originally ended at US 65 in/near downtown Albert Lea. Not sure exactly when it was changed to its current terminus, but evidence suggests ca. 1939.
The Met Council and MnDOT are studying freeway to freeway interchanges to determine where investments will be targeted in the next 20 years: https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Planning-2/Transit-Plans,-Studies-Reports/Highways-Roads/Freeway-System-Interchange-Study.aspx (https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Planning-2/Transit-Plans,-Studies-Reports/Highways-Roads/Freeway-System-Interchange-Study.aspx)
Quote from: WhitePoleRD on September 29, 2018, 06:29:55 PM
I have a question about US 69 (and to a lesser extent US 65)-
I know that 35 is only a few miles away but I wonder why 69 was never extended along MN 13. To me it only makes sense. The end of 69 kinda just hangs in Albert Lea.
My personal speculation is that Albert Lea wanted one highway number from I-90 to downtown and since MN 13 goes north of I-90 (all the way to St. Paul), MN 13 won out. You could extend US 69 to I-90, but then you would have to waste a number on the short connector between 69 and 65. If 69 goes downtown, you make people take 2 highways to get to downtown Albert Lea from I-90. One other thing to keep in mind is that you can't go straight north from downtown Albert Lea to I-90 because there is a lake there.
^ You sort-of can do it directly via Bridge Ave. Plus, most of Albert Lea's commercialization over the past 30 years as been at the 90/Bridge Ave interchange.
Quote from: DandyDan on September 30, 2018, 04:17:15 AM
Quote from: WhitePoleRD on September 29, 2018, 06:29:55 PM
I have a question about US 69 (and to a lesser extent US 65)-
I know that 35 is only a few miles away but I wonder why 69 was never extended along MN 13. To me it only makes sense. The end of 69 kinda just hangs in Albert Lea.
My personal speculation is that Albert Lea wanted one highway number from I-90 to downtown and since MN 13 goes north of I-90 (all the way to St. Paul), MN 13 won out. You could extend US 69 to I-90, but then you would have to waste a number on the short connector between 69 and 65. If 69 goes downtown, you make people take 2 highways to get to downtown Albert Lea from I-90. One other thing to keep in mind is that you can't go straight north from downtown Albert Lea to I-90 because there is a lake there.
Sorry I should have been much more specific. I'm talking about taking out MN 13 altogether and replacing it with US 69 to West St. Paul.
Quote from: froggie on September 30, 2018, 06:58:30 AM
^ You sort-of can do it directly via Bridge Ave. Plus, most of Albert Lea's commercialization over the past 30 years as been at the 90/Bridge Ave interchange.
And all that was well after they removed US 16 from Minnesota. I suspect at the point in time when they eliminated US 16, much less usage of the Bridge Ave. exit occurred than today.
I noticed coming from Duluth this weekend that Thomson has been removed from the Thomson - Esko exit sign.
I had to look up why. Apparently, Thomson merged with Carlton back in 2013. Why did it take so long to remove it from the sign?
Of particular interest maybe to High Plains Traveler (who has an entire page on his website devoted to a rant about this), one of the gantries on eastbound I-94 at the 494/694 Fish Lake Interchange is down for replacement. We shall wait with bated breath to find out if they actually put control cities on the new sign.
Yep. For those keeping score, one of the most important decision points for traffic coming into MSP has no control cities whatsoever.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 13, 2018, 11:50:03 PM
Yep. For those keeping score, one of the most important decision points for traffic coming into MSP has no control cities whatsoever.
Yeah, the twin cities suck at putting destinations on freeway signage.
A bit out of the blue, but I discovered this evening that MnDOT has an upcoming project to reconstruct and widen I-94 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/i94/montitoclearwater/index.html) between Clearwater and Monticello. The driving need (pun intended) is pavement reconstruction...but the segment has a high enough traffic volume that it will require 2 lanes in each direction during construction...traffic simulations suggest that going with a single lane would result in peak period backups of up to 5 miles, and summer weekend backups approaching 20 miles. For this reason, they plan on permanent widening in order to provide space to maintain 2 lanes each way during construction. The permanent widening does not have a large cost differential over temporary widening, and MnDOT has long-range plans for a 6-lane cross-section on this segment of I-94 anyway.
The environmental documentation covers this reconstruction/widening all the way to Albertville (where widening from there to MN 241 will begin next year), but it appears they didn't have funding to do it all. As it is, the Clearwater-Monticello project will be design-build.
I know the project manager personally and have sent her an email asking for a few clarifications.
Quote from: froggie on October 29, 2018, 10:53:01 PM
A bit out of the blue, but I discovered this evening that MnDOT has an upcoming project to reconstruct and widen I-94 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/i94/montitoclearwater/index.html) between Clearwater and Monticello. The driving need (pun intended) is pavement reconstruction...but the segment has a high enough traffic volume that it will require 2 lanes in each direction during construction...traffic simulations suggest that going with a single lane would result in peak period backups of up to 5 miles, and summer weekend backups approaching 20 miles. For this reason, they plan on permanent widening in order to provide space to maintain 2 lanes each way during construction. The permanent widening does not have a large cost differential over temporary widening, and MnDOT has long-range plans for a 6-lane cross-section on this segment of I-94 anyway.
The environmental documentation covers this reconstruction/widening all the way to Albertville (where widening from there to MN 241 will begin next year), but it appears they didn't have funding to do it all. As it is, the Clearwater-Monticello project will be design-build.
I know the project manager personally and have sent her an email asking for a few clarifications.
Glad I do not drive this corridor often with almost 40 miles of construction planned. But when it's finished 94 will be three lanes in each direction up through Clearwater. Wouldn't be surprising to see a Corridors of Commerce project in the future complete the last few miles of three lanes in each direction up to Saint Cloud.
Heard recently that the "Brockton interchange" will be a diverging diamond interchange as well (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94rogers/ (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94rogers/))
Not continuous. There will be a gap between Albertville and Monticello.
Quote from: froggie on October 30, 2018, 08:07:58 AM
Not continuous. There will be a gap between Albertville and Monticello.
When you email the project manager, ask her about the plan to fill in this gap between Albertville and Monticello as well.
Got a response. The most relevant section is posted below, with my clarification notes in bold and parenthesis:
The project was originally programmed as an unbonded concrete overlay (i.e. standard pavement reconstruction). We had been looking at MOT (Maintenance of Traffic) for some time and needed to keep two lanes open during construction. There really isn't a capacity need west of Monticello. There was a bill in the legislature last year requiring any temporary widening on freeways to be made permanent. The bill didn't pass but politics played into top management's decision for the third lane. The pavement west of Monticello is in terrible shape and we needed to address it now. The segment from Albertville to Monticello isn't in the program til 2025 +/- .
Further on in the email, it was noted that there is no funding identified yet for the Monticello-Albertville segment so that "2025" is just a placeholder. She seems confident that politics will force/demand some sort of funding be made available to address the gap.
So this is yet another unbonded concrete overlay rather than an actual reconstruction down to the earth.
Hard to say what it is now. But a full reconstruction would probably be more than their budget covers.
I also don't think what MnDOT terms as an "unbonded concrete overlay" is as bad as you're making it sound. They usually strip down at least to the base for such projects, from what I've seen.
Does anyone know why most of the ILCS (intelligent lane warning signs) on i-35W have gone down. I remember reading some time ago that the sign manufacturer went bankrupt and MnDOT was looking for another supplier, but I can't seem to remember the exact document...
First I've heard of that. The obvious ones are down due to the reconstruction project, but I recall the others still working when I was in town over Labor Day.
Ok, I found the document, so apparently MnDOT is attempting to get rid of them in most places and cannibalize the signs for absolutely necessary areas, replacing the rest with more frequent DMS. I don't know the exact reasoning regarding why MnDOT thinks more frequent DMS is a substitute for ILCS deployment, considering several of their own studies years ago indicated that DMS was not a suitable replacement for ILCS signs.
https://www.pcb.its.dot.gov/t3/s170404/s170404_Variable_Speed_Limits_Systems_presentation_mcclellan.ppt
The 2019-2028 Capital Highway Investment Plan (CHIP) was released this morning.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/planning/10yearplan/
https://streets.mn/2018/11/14/along-old-highway-61-to-duluth-a-phototour-part-one/
Part 1 of 3 of a phototour of Old Highway 61
Quote from: DandyDan on September 30, 2018, 04:17:15 AM
Quote from: WhitePoleRD on September 29, 2018, 06:29:55 PM
I have a question about US 69 (and to a lesser extent US 65)-
I know that 35 is only a few miles away but I wonder why 69 was never extended along MN 13. To me it only makes sense. The end of 69 kinda just hangs in Albert Lea.
My personal speculation is that Albert Lea wanted one highway number from I-90 to downtown and since MN 13 goes north of I-90 (all the way to St. Paul), MN 13 won out. You could extend US 69 to I-90, but then you would have to waste a number on the short connector between 69 and 65. If 69 goes downtown, you make people take 2 highways to get to downtown Albert Lea from I-90. One other thing to keep in mind is that you can't go straight north from downtown Albert Lea to I-90 because there is a lake there.
Or 65 could end at South Albert Lea and 13 could be extended to that point, with 69 coming out at North Albert Lea. A BL35 would take care of any confusion.
There already is a BL35. It follows US 65 between the two 35 junctions.
Quote from: DandyDan on September 30, 2018, 04:17:15 AM
that Albert Lea wanted one highway number from I-90 to downtown
If I have my history right, I-90 in Minnesota was completed in the same year that US-16 was truncated. This means that, when US-16 in Albert Lea became MN-13, I-90 was still pretty much a brand-new highway. In that case, I'd say your speculation makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: texaskdog on November 19, 2018, 02:32:06 PM
65 could end at South Albert Lea and 13 could be extended to that point, with 69 coming out at North Albert Lea. A BL35 would take care of any confusion.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 19, 2018, 03:10:17 PM
There already is a BL35. It follows US 65 between the two 35 junctions.
Not to mention that–if I'm understanding things correctly–US-69 would no longer reach Albert Lea, and traffic heading there would have to switch route numbers at I-35 for seemingly no reason. US-69
$20 million federal grant for the Can of Worms project in Duluth awarded today. Good deal.
Still a lot to go to fully fund it.
Within the next week or two I'm going to begin deleting photos from my Flickr account in order to get under the new 1000 photo limit in an organized fashion (I need to delete about half of them, I'll probably start with the older stuff). At this time I have no intent of adding significant new content, I'm not sure if I'll eventually just shut down the entire thing and use some other platform for hosting random content. I still don't have access to Wordpress for that purpose as I'd have to sign up for an Earthlink email account to recreate the address I had when I created my account there, (or else I could leave it abandoned and actually figure out how to register a top level domain for a new account). It's been a year now and I haven't bothered as I've directed my energy towards writing articles, many of them roadgeek related, for the streets.mn blog where I get more exposure than a personal Wordpress site.
All my road related photos are on a flash drive I have at home so nothing is going to be gone irrecoverably.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/26956281@N02/albums
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on July 15, 2018, 02:43:02 PM
I noticed today that MnDOT is installing new alternate I-35 route designations.
(https://i.imgur.com/RQSxYO1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/crJrK24.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YGIQcZi.jpg)
They were posted on almost every exit from the Iowa border to the Elko/New Market exit. I don't think either I-90 exit or the US-14 exits had them. There are probably others.
Some of them were missing the yellow tab on top, such as this one from the NB offramp to MN-251. Note that they have the wrong direction installed on this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/lZxzthK.jpg)
I apologize for the belated response to this, but I was doing some semi-aimless driving in Southern Minnesota and it would be nice if there was one specific route one should follow. It appears if you exit I-35, you are just supposed to make a right, unless you are to go southbound onto US 65, which is the only place I remember where you are to turn left. There's also no coordination with Iowa because US 65 is the alternate route, but then you get to Iowa and there is no alternate route, or emergency detour route, for I-35 there. I also find it weird the county road east out of Glenville has the alternate route making a random left turn on it. I find the way they did things rather random and haphazard.
Quote from: DandyDan on January 06, 2019, 04:41:59 AM
I apologize for the belated response to this, but I was doing some semi-aimless driving in Southern Minnesota and it would be nice if there was one specific route one should follow. It appears if you exit I-35, you are just supposed to make a right, unless you are to go southbound onto US 65, which is the only place I remember where you are to turn left. There's also no coordination with Iowa because US 65 is the alternate route, but then you get to Iowa and there is no alternate route, or emergency detour route, for I-35 there. I also find it weird the county road east out of Glenville has the alternate route making a random left turn on it. I find the way they did things rather random and haphazard.
It seems that the alternate route is specifically tailored for each exit from I-35, so I'm not sure that what you're suggesting is the intended function (as MnDOT envisions it). I didn't follow any of them very far beyond the interchange, so I can't say this for certain, but I wouldn't be surprised if the alternate routes were only signed as the alternative from one interchange to the next.
I believe MnDOT is making it flexible to adjust to different situations or different segments that may need closing.
Around 5300 miles of two-lane roads in Minnesota will get an increase to 60mph from 55mph!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Article:
https://kstp.com/news/mndot-minnesota-highway-speed-limit-increase/5220316/?cat=13154
Most of that mileage has already gone to 60. The 5,300 figure is the total from the 5 years of study.
Someone on Facebook speculated some months ago about any parts of MN 61 going to 60, which it appears the route was exempted from the study entirely. That doesn't surprise me, although I think the majority of the route in Cook County (roughly from Taconite Harbor to the border) could handle 60. The Lake County portion, probably not suitable.
My hunch is safety problems with deer and moose would preclude it even in Cook County. I recall from my high school days a couple of high-profile moose-car crashes between Grand Marais and the border where the driver was killed on scene.
I think the only portion of MN-61 that should be 60 (or 65) should be the expressway portion between Duluth and Two Harbors. Any other portion should have a maximum speed limit of 55.
MN-61 wasn't exempted from the study. It was a "discretionary" route that exists in only MnDOT District 1, and wasn't put on the schedule of studies. Rather, like other single district routes, the District was to do it sometime during the five years study.
That said, I was surprised that almost all but the lower 23 miles or so east of Two Harbors was designated to go to 60. I wasn't surprised that the part east of Grand Marais did, but there is a lot of side road traffic west of there.
Minnesota and Wisconsin are targeting 2028 to replace the I-535 bridge between Duluth and Superior.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/traffic-and-construction/4585132-blatnik-replacement-officially-scheduled-2028
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2019, 03:19:02 PM
Minnesota and Wisconsin are targeting 2028 to replace the I-535 bridge between Duluth and Superior.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/traffic-and-construction/4585132-blatnik-replacement-officially-scheduled-2028
I will miss the truss.
The truss was nice, but I have no problem with replacing a fracture-critical span.
Agreed, although very picturesque, trusses are 'too efficient' for most of the uses that they had been put to in the past.
A friend once told me a common 'internal' adage within the field while he was doing a stint as a volunteer firefighter - "Never trust a truss".
Mike
MnDOT announced 2019 projects this morning: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/19/04/04-construction-kickoff.html (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/19/04/04-construction-kickoff.html)
Quote from: bschultzy on April 04, 2019, 02:04:16 PM
MnDOT announced 2019 projects this morning: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/19/04/04-construction-kickoff.html (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/newsrels/19/04/04-construction-kickoff.html)
Your cliff notes summary: avoid I-35W. All of it.
^ May want to add I-94 up to St. Cloud to that list. Especially on weekends.
On vacation so haven't done my usual major project breakdown.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2019, 03:19:02 PM
Minnesota and Wisconsin are targeting 2028 to replace the I-535 bridge between Duluth and Superior.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/traffic-and-construction/4585132-blatnik-replacement-officially-scheduled-2028
They're waiting on Wisconsin? Eh, better grab a chair, MnDOT.
This is going to be one of those projects where someone is gonna have to score a big wad of federal money in order for it to happen on schedule.
It will be interesting to see what type of design ends up getting used. Be nice if we ended up with a better interchange situation on the WI end of the new bridge, too.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2019, 07:58:20 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2019, 03:19:02 PM
Minnesota and Wisconsin are targeting 2028 to replace the I-535 bridge between Duluth and Superior.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/traffic-and-construction/4585132-blatnik-replacement-officially-scheduled-2028
They're waiting on Wisconsin? Eh, better grab a chair, MnDOT.
This is going to be one of those projects where someone is gonna have to score a big wad of federal money in order for it to happen on schedule.
It will be interesting to see what type of design ends up getting used. Be nice if we ended up with a better interchange situation on the WI end of the new bridge, too.
At the rate they're going, WisDOT is going to become IDiOT north well before then :popcorn:
For the Can of Worms project, part of Lower Michigan St. will be repurposed to become southbound I-35 with the northbound lanes shifted to the current southbound carriageway. Work is also expected to take place year-round, which is rare for a non-emergency project.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/4609091-can-worms-work-will-go-year-round
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 15, 2019, 09:50:58 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2019, 07:58:20 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2019, 03:19:02 PM
Minnesota and Wisconsin are targeting 2028 to replace the I-535 bridge between Duluth and Superior.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/traffic-and-construction/4585132-blatnik-replacement-officially-scheduled-2028
They're waiting on Wisconsin? Eh, better grab a chair, MnDOT.
This is going to be one of those projects where someone is gonna have to score a big wad of federal money in order for it to happen on schedule.
It will be interesting to see what type of design ends up getting used. Be nice if we ended up with a better interchange situation on the WI end of the new bridge, too.
At the rate they're going, WisDOT is going to become IDiOT north well before then :popcorn:
WisDOT has a large (high cost) bridge program that has always been supported and funded by politicians on both sides of the aisle: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/6yr-hwy-impr/state-hwy/largebridge.pdf (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/6yr-hwy-impr/state-hwy/largebridge.pdf). This program funded Wisconsin's share of the Red Wing and St. Croix crossing. I doubt it will be an issue obtaining funding for this project from WisDOT.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 06, 2019, 09:50:31 PM
For the Can of Worms project, part of Lower Michigan St. will be repurposed to become southbound I-35 with the northbound lanes shifted to the current southbound carriageway. Work is also expected to take place year-round, which is rare for a non-emergency project.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/4609091-can-worms-work-will-go-year-round
Temporary measure during construction so they can maintain 2 lanes in each direction. Lower Michigan will go back to being a local street at the end of the project.
Part of MN 67 shut down in Yellow Medicine County due to a fault line rupture splitting the road in two. The May picture is pretty dramatic compared to the "before" in April.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/06/04/mndot-expanding-fault-line-forces-parts-of-highway-67-to-close-near-granite-falls/amp/
I don't think that's being caused by an actual fault line (in the geologic sense of the word). What a horribly written article.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 05, 2019, 12:36:42 AM
I don't think that's being caused by an actual fault line (in the geologic sense of the word). What a horribly written article.
I was going to say... earthquakes up in Minnesota seems rather unlikely.
Very unlikely, but not unheard of (https://www.minnpost.com/environment/2018/12/yes-there-are-earthquakes-in-the-land-of-10000-lakes/).
That said, whatever caused the road buckling on Hwy 67 does not appear to have registered on the USGS...
Given the location, I can safely assume the roadbed is merely slumping down a very steep slope above a bend in the Yellow Medicine River.
MNDOT's 511 places the problem right here:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.73254,-95.45300&z=15&t=U (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.73254,-95.45300&z=15&t=U)
One look at the topo and there can be little doubt. Lay-people using jargon inappropriately, I bet they only said "fault" because the road happen to fail in a uniform line along the road centerline.
Both MN 43 spans over the Mississippi at Winona will be open as of 7/1 as the long rehabilitation project on the original bridge finally ends with a ribbon cutting.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/06/30/winona-celebrate-completion-bridge-project?fbclid=IwAR0nK-XIdAuRHvwYrwTvOzgSItYY04DbG5LhTsxuCnr9PsWDWlb972g26ZM
Driving through North St. Paul yesterday I was wondering why MN-120 hasn't been turned back. It's mostly just city streets. Is it because neither Ramsey or Washington county would agree on who would take it?
Probably moreso they want MnDOT to rebuild the road before they'll take it over.
MN's new slowpoke law goes into effect Thursday, although I don't see how it's different than the previous law that existed (and it already seems clear it won't be heavily enforced). It's not a keep right except to pass law, which Minnesota does not have.
Quote from: discochris on July 29, 2019, 04:29:28 PM
Driving through North St. Paul yesterday I was wondering why MN-120 hasn't been turned back. It's mostly just city streets. Is it because neither Ramsey or Washington county would agree on who would take it?
Well, the section of former MN-120 just south of I-94 was turned back about 10 years ago. It's officially two county highways...Washington has the northbound lane, and Ramsey has the southbound lane. Originally after being turned back, each direction was only signed as its county's number. Later on, new signage signed both directions with both highway numbers.
In a similar vein, I always thought that Portland and Park Avenues in Minneapolis from E 46th St northward should be signed with both 33 and 35, given that they're one-way streets. *heh*
An interesting "outsider" look at road turnback, focusing on MN 277 which will he officially handed over to Chippewa County tomorrow.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/09/14/highway-277-minnesota-cease-exist?fbclid=IwAR03zZnrHVH_FS_qZRXUYBCscRR44L0hLx4ivJ1r844AsF1uj1JcUbEoj5A
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 15, 2019, 04:13:47 PM
An interesting "outsider" look at road turnback, focusing on MN 277 which will he officially handed over to Chippewa County tomorrow.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/09/14/highway-277-minnesota-cease-exist?fbclid=IwAR03zZnrHVH_FS_qZRXUYBCscRR44L0hLx4ivJ1r844AsF1uj1JcUbEoj5A
Well shit. There goes another one I didn't get (my own) pictures of. :-( The picture in the article is nice, though.
An interesting aside...last time I was in Chippewa County, I noticed that MN 277 was on the half of the county that used all square county route shields, while the western half used all pentagon shields. 1st Ave (CSAH 6, and also MN 29 north of MN 40) was the dividing line. I do not know if this is still the case.
Heard yesterday that a number of Corridors of Commerce projects awarded last year (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/corridorsofcommerce/2018projects.html (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/corridorsofcommerce/2018projects.html)) received no where near enough funding to actually build them... Yikes! :-|
Where did you hear that?
Not that I'm entirely surprised. But it would be nice to look up sources & details.
Apparently, there's a new half-interchange (https://www.hwy212interchange.com/) on 212 in Chaska, at a newly-designated CSAH 44. Word is the interchange opened this weekend.
Quote from: froggie on November 17, 2019, 10:11:59 PM
Apparently, there's a new half-interchange (https://www.hwy212interchange.com/) on 212 in Chaska, at a newly-designated CSAH 44. Word is the interchange opened this weekend.
That must have popped up really late in the construction schedule.
(Obligatory mention of MN 41 getting a nice promotion on the map :D )
Heard through conversation that FHWA is pushing MnDOT to upgrade their steel traffic signal poles and mast arms to meet updated wind loading standards. The last update was made in 1993 and since then the only significant change has been in 2009 to go with a galvanized (silver) finish instead of a painted finish.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 17, 2019, 10:45:16 PM
Quote from: froggie on November 17, 2019, 10:11:59 PM
Apparently, there's a new half-interchange (https://www.hwy212interchange.com/) on 212 in Chaska, at a newly-designated CSAH 44. Word is the interchange opened this weekend.
That must have popped up really late in the construction schedule.
It's what Monte would call a "pop-up project". The project was initiated by Carver County but led by Chaska. MnDOT mainly provided some financial and technical support.
Speaking of "pop-up projects", Washington County is pursuing a new interchange at MN 36 and CSAH 15/Manning Ave (https://www.co.washington.mn.us/2662/TH-36-and-Manning-Avenue-Interchange). Construction on a 5-ramp par-clo (the current interchange concept) is proposed for 2021.
Quote from: froggie on December 04, 2019, 01:23:30 PM
Speaking of "pop-up projects", Washington County is pursuing a new interchange at MN 36 and CSAH 15/Manning Ave (https://www.co.washington.mn.us/2662/TH-36-and-Manning-Avenue-Interchange). Construction on a 5-ramp par-clo (the current interchange concept) is proposed for 2021.
Good.
That whole MN 36 corridor should be a freeway out to the river, despite what those whiners in Oak Park Heights think.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 04, 2019, 02:05:33 PM
Quote from: froggie on December 04, 2019, 01:23:30 PM
Speaking of "pop-up projects", Washington County is pursuing a new interchange at MN 36 and CSAH 15/Manning Ave (https://www.co.washington.mn.us/2662/TH-36-and-Manning-Avenue-Interchange). Construction on a 5-ramp par-clo (the current interchange concept) is proposed for 2021.
Good.
That whole MN 36 corridor should be a freeway out to the river, despite what those whiners in Oak Park Heights think.
Agreed, but I'll also settle for everything inside 694 being one before they finish the OPH mess.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 04, 2019, 02:05:33 PM
That whole MN 36 corridor should be a freeway out to the river, despite what those whiners in Oak Park Heights think.
Supposedly, due to the traffic increase from the new bridge causing jams at the lights, they want the freeway now. But I haven't heard anything official to that effect.
Too little too late, NIMBYs
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 04, 2019, 10:46:37 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 04, 2019, 02:05:33 PM
That whole MN 36 corridor should be a freeway out to the river, despite what those whiners in Oak Park Heights think.
Agreed, but I'll also settle for everything inside 694 being one before they finish the OPH mess.
I think I'd literally be shocked to death if such a project breaks ground in the next fifteen years.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 05, 2019, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 04, 2019, 10:46:37 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 04, 2019, 02:05:33 PM
That whole MN 36 corridor should be a freeway out to the river, despite what those whiners in Oak Park Heights think.
Agreed, but I'll also settle for everything inside 694 being one before they finish the OPH mess.
I think I'll literally be shocked to death if such a project breaks ground in the next fifteen years.
I think there's only 2 intersections left to convert within the beltway...and one can simply be de-accessed. The intersection near the Fleet Farm just got interchanged this past summer.
Quote from: DJ Particle on December 05, 2019, 09:20:34 AM
I think there's only 2 intersections left to convert within the beltway...and one can simply be de-accessed. The intersection near the Fleet Farm just got interchanged this past summer.
I didn't know that about the Hadley Ave intersection! Good to know.
But the MN-120/Century Ave intersection is not going anywhere for a while, most likely. I wouldn't be surprised if construction of an interchange was holding up any final MN-120 turnback agreement.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 05, 2019, 09:26:08 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on December 05, 2019, 09:20:34 AM
I think there's only 2 intersections left to convert within the beltway...and one can simply be de-accessed. The intersection near the Fleet Farm just got interchanged this past summer.
I didn't know that about the Hadley Ave intersection! Good to know.
But the MN-120/Century Ave intersection is not going anywhere for a while, most likely. I wouldn't be surprised if construction of an interchange was holding up any final MN-120 turnback agreement.
The latest Streetview images there (2019-June) show the bridge under construction. Also, the street layout is shown as the 'labels' overlay to the Google aerial image.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on December 05, 2019, 10:45:17 AM
The latest Streetview images there (2019-June) show the bridge under construction. Also, the street layout is shown as the 'labels' overlay to the Google aerial image.
Mike
From what I could see from a vantage point at I-694, it looked like the bridge was finished and open, though there's still some construction going on.
Was driving home on EB 494 today, and it looks like MnDOT has put up temporary concrete jersey barriers in the center median between 169 and E Bush Lake Rd. I'm guessing MnDOT put them up due to the sorry state of the high tension cable barrier after some icy days?
The dreaded TH-23/US-10 cloverleaf "interchange" (if you even want to call it that) reconstruction seems to have been pushed back to 2023, but with more substantial improvements than originally anticipated.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/stc/index.html
Very interesting that the proposal calls for a folded-diamond interchange as opposed to a DDI, six-ramp, or SPUI; I'm a little skeptical that the proposed interchange can even handle that much traffic. Also interesting is the plan to construct an overpass at 4th Avenue SE just to the south of the interchange, which I hadn't even realized was proposed. Disappointingly, the horrendous signal at Saint Germain Street remains just north of the interchange, which is arguably more dangerous than the interchange itself. At least the folded diamond design provides more space to decelerate before the intersection. Still hopeful that maybe MNDOT will figure something out to eliminate that signal before construction actually starts.
Quote from: EpicRoadways on December 10, 2019, 08:44:09 PM
TH-23/US-10 cloverleaf "interchange" (if you even want to call it that)
Why shouldn't I? It is an interchange.
Quote from: EpicRoadways on December 10, 2019, 08:44:09 PM
Disappointingly, the horrendous signal at Saint Germain Street remains just north of the interchange, which is arguably more dangerous than the interchange itself.
...which is apparently part of "Inset B". Do you have a link to a detailed map of that, or are we left to our imagination?
Quote from: kphoger on December 10, 2019, 08:53:26 PM
...which is apparently part of "Inset B". Do you have a link to a detailed map of that, or are we left to our imagination?
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/stc/pdf/prelayout.pdf
-The intersection remains as-is with the exception of new pavement and a new signal system.
A few notes on that US 10/MN 23 interchange:
- What's planned is not all that different than what was conceptualized 15 years ago.
- The reason for a folded-diamond is two-fold. First, traffic volumes have been fairly stagnant over the past 15 years (despite growth in the St. Cloud region as a whole) and MnDOT feels a folded-diamond will adequately serve traffic. Second, and more importantly, a folded-diamond won't get in the way of any potential improvements that may happen at St. Germain in the future.
- Addressing the signal at St. Germain is not part of this project due to funding limitations and right-of-way & frontage road constraints.
- The reason for doing the MN 23 interchange and not doing something at St. Germain instead is because the MN 23 bridges over US 10 need replacement.
- Full disclosure: I know the project manager and have traded correspondence with her on this project.
Quote from: froggie on December 10, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
The reason for a folded-diamond is two-fold.
I see what you did there.
Unintentional, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A project to convert US 8's western terminus into a loop rather than a flyover just wrapped. I've been trying to find out why they did that since the flyover seemed to work fine. It does give a little more space on I-35 between the US 8 and the Broadway interchanges, I guess.
Huh. That is bizarre. I'd have the same question.
Did someone really want to pay the property owner on 235th St some ROW money?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 12, 2019, 02:35:28 PM
A project to convert US 8's western terminus into a loop rather than a flyover just wrapped. I've been trying to find out why they did that since the flyover seemed to work fine. It does give a little more space on I-35 between the US 8 and the Broadway interchanges, I guess.
I thought it was in preparation of making it a full interchange (i.e. with access to US-8 from I-35 SB)?
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 12, 2019, 07:17:19 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 12, 2019, 02:35:28 PM
A project to convert US 8's western terminus into a loop rather than a flyover just wrapped. I've been trying to find out why they did that since the flyover seemed to work fine. It does give a little more space on I-35 between the US 8 and the Broadway interchanges, I guess.
I thought it was in preparation of making it a full interchange (i.e. with access to US-8 from I-35 SB)?
Wow. Finally.
Even without the desire for a full interchange at US 8, the former flyover created a very serious weaving issue to the Broadway off-ramp, especially during morning rush.
And since the bridge needed replacement anyway, they figured a realignment to improve ramp spacing was in order.
The state's second set of APL signs are going up at the 35E/W Forest Lake split. I got a pic of the one they had installed when I went through yesterday. What I find curious is there are two other similar junctions where they just replaced signs at US 52/MN 55 in Inver Grove as well as the Burnsville split, but used styles similar to the ones MnDOT has used for years (just with more emphasis on the EXIT ONLY parts) rather than APLs.
The Star Tribune has an article about several projects in the Twin Cities that have been funded by MNDoT. Here's a link:
http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-department-of-transportation-awards-18-million-in-grants-for-highway-projects/566572072/
Among the projects that will be built are:
An interchange on MN-36 at Manning Avenue
Grade Separation on MN-13 in Savage
An interchange on I-94 at Dayton Parkway in the northwest metro
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on December 30, 2019, 08:43:10 PM
The Star Tribune has an article about several projects in the Twin Cities that have been funded by MNDoT. Here's a link:
http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-department-of-transportation-awards-18-million-in-grants-for-highway-projects/566572072/
Among the projects that will be built are:
An interchange on MN-36 at Manning Avenue
Grade Separation on MN-13 in Savage
An interchange on I-94 at Dayton Parkway in the northwest metro
I like the Savage one...the freewaying of MN-13 continues apace... 😄
I did a deeper dive into that Savage one. While a grade separation, I'd stop short of calling it a freeway-grade interchange. The proposed north/eastbound off-ramp is basically a right turn lane into a buttonhook.
Nothing really shocking here. All projects that we knew about slowly lurching along.
A fun light historical read about I-90 in southwest Minnesota (ignore the inaccurate points about the national route at the end of the article)
https://www.dglobe.com/community/history/4845063-Column-Life-is-a-highway-%E2%80%94-all-3020-miles-of-it
A couple weeks ago I saw the new 60 MPH zone on MN 61, which starts at the Lafayette Tunnel (second tunnel) northbound rather than after Silver Bay. Despite saying the limit was likely going into effect last spring they didn't get to changing the signs until around Thanksgiving, which left me wondering if maybe they decided not to increase the limit after all.
Today's Star Tribune has an article about the deep divisions between Republicans and Democrats over transportation funding.
http://www.startribune.com/how-to-pay-for-roads-and-bridges-funding-battle-to-continue-at-state-capitol/567127032/
Both the Republicans and Democrats have some good ideas, but the two parties are so polarized that I don't see any legislation passing this year.
One thing which SHOULD be a no brainer would be to take the sales tax revenue from auto parts and car rentals out of the general fund, and dedicate it 100% to road and transit improvements, but doing so would require Democrats to raise taxes elsewhere or cut spending, so that idea is a non-starter.
I noticed that the new interchange they built on MN-36 at Hadley Avenue didn't get its exit number (11A).
So much for "all new exit sign projects will have exit numbers"... 🤦🏻♀️
Is Minnesota going to number all of their freeway and expressway exits like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Iowa have?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
Is Minnesota going to number all of their freeway and expressway exits like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Iowa have?
Given major inconsistency in doing so, my guess is it will be several decades if ever.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 21, 2020, 06:17:28 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
Is Minnesota going to number all of their freeway and expressway exits like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Iowa have?
Given major inconsistency in doing so, my guess is it will be several decades if ever.
I was told by them (via their Facebook) that they're doing it during sign replacement projects or new construction. That's why Exits 1 & 2 on MN-610 have numbers but the rest of the stretch doesn't. I guess interchange conversion doesn't count as "new construction".
US-52 is kinda spotty on numbers between Rochester and MN-55. About 50/50 Though Rochester area itself has them. That Rochester stretch was the first non-Interstate in Minnesota to get exit numbers.
US-10/61 around I-494 has a 3-mile stretch with exit numbers (based on US-61's mileage).
US-12 west of I-494 just got numbers...but the exit to CSAH-6 (the western terminus of the freeway portion) still remains unnumbered.
US-169 has exit numbers in the Shakopee area. I trust the new interchanges they are constructing to extend the freeway will have numbers too.\
MN-62 has exit numbers on its concurrency with MN-55.
Just about every left exit gained a number in the last few years as well.
So it's happening...it's just really inconsistent.
Quote from: DJ Particle on January 22, 2020, 02:01:43 AM
MN-62 has exit numbers on its concurrency with MN-55.
I was recently in the Twin Cities area and thought it was unusual that MN 62 has gone from not being east of the Mendota Bridge to having MN 55 exit from it in Mendota Heights.
Quote from: DandyDan on January 23, 2020, 04:17:33 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on January 22, 2020, 02:01:43 AM
MN-62 has exit numbers on its concurrency with MN-55.
I was recently in the Twin Cities area and thought it was unusual that MN 62 has gone from not being east of the Mendota Bridge to having MN 55 exit from it in Mendota Heights.
Yeah, that's new as of August 2018. MN-110 was renumbered to be an extension of MN-62.
62 also has exit #s at the 35W interchange, but I don't believe anywhere west of there.
Quote from: DJ Particle on January 22, 2020, 02:01:43 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 21, 2020, 06:17:28 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
Is Minnesota going to number all of their freeway and expressway exits like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Iowa have?
Given major inconsistency in doing so, my guess is it will be several decades if ever.
I was told by them (via their Facebook) that they're doing it during sign replacement projects or new construction. That's why Exits 1 & 2 on MN-610 have numbers but the rest of the stretch doesn't. I guess interchange conversion doesn't count as "new construction".
US-52 is kinda spotty on numbers between Rochester and MN-55. About 50/50 Though Rochester area itself has them. That Rochester stretch was the first non-Interstate in Minnesota to get exit numbers.
US-10/61 around I-494 has a 3-mile stretch with exit numbers (based on US-61's mileage).
US-12 west of I-494 just got numbers...but the exit to CSAH-6 (the western terminus of the freeway portion) still remains unnumbered.
US-169 has exit numbers in the Shakopee area. I trust the new interchanges they are constructing to extend the freeway will have numbers too.\
MN-62 has exit numbers on its concurrency with MN-55.
Just about every left exit gained a number in the last few years as well.
So it's happening...it's just really inconsistent.
Quote from: bschultzy on January 27, 2020, 01:14:36 PM
62 also has exit #s at the 35W interchange, but I don't believe anywhere west of there.
Only the left exits though. Most of the left exits got numbers, including Exit 236 on US-10.
AFAIK, Exit 63 on MN-5 (MSP Airport) is the only left exit w/o an exit number tab at this time.
The Minneapolis Star Tribune is reporting that the cost of converting Ayd Mill Road in St Paul into a three lane road, with one lane for bikes and pedestrians, has increased to $7.5 Million. The article also says Ayd Mill Road burns up 1/3 of the city's pothole budget every year. Here's a link to the article:
http://www.startribune.com/cost-for-fixing-ayd-mill-road-in-st-paul-soars-to-7-5-million/567806142/
My favorite quote in the article is that one St Paul city council member questions the plan, and says "We've seen numerous times where, when we rush through a project, we tend to make a lot of mistakes," he said. "This doesn't give us a lot of confidence."
Personally, I think St Paul should invest the money to keep it a 4 lane quasi-freeway, and invest the money to make sure the pavement is durable. I know that's too much to hope for.......
Here's a link to another article, from last summer, about Ayd Mill's problem plagued history. It really should have been a four lane freeway link between I-94 and I-35E, but politicians avoided making the tough decisions required to do so.
http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-mayor-pitches-green-option-for-crumbling-ayd-mill-road/558253492/?refresh=true
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on February 13, 2020, 04:31:12 AM
The Minneapolis Star Tribune is reporting that the cost of converting Ayd Mill Road in St Paul into a three lane road, with one lane for bikes and pedestrians, has increased to $7.5 Million. The article also says Ayd Mill Road burns up 1/3 of the city's pothole budget every year. Here's a link to the article:
http://www.startribune.com/cost-for-fixing-ayd-mill-road-in-st-paul-soars-to-7-5-million/567806142/
My favorite quote in the article is that one St Paul city council member questions the plan, and says Weve seen numerous times where, when we rush through a project, we tend to make a lot of mistakes, he said. This doesnt give us a lot of confidence.
Personally, I think St Paul should invest the money to keep it a 4 lane quasi-freeway, and invest the money to make sure the pavement is durable. I know that's too much to hope for.......
Here's a link to another article, from last summer, about Ayd Mill's problem plagued history. It really should have been a four lane freeway link between I-94 and I-35E, but politicians avoided making the tough decisions required to do so.
http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-mayor-pitches-green-option-for-crumbling-ayd-mill-road/558253492/?refresh=true
Yeah, it's 2/14 and apparently people are going to ride bikes to work. they should connect it to I-94 and remove all exit ramps (entrance ramps only). Problem solved.
Wasn't Ayd Mill Rd originally supposed to be a re-routed MN-51?
Quote from: DJ Particle on February 17, 2020, 02:51:12 AM
Wasn't Ayd Mill Rd originally supposed to be a re-routed MN-51?
That wouldn't have been allowed because the legislative route definition of MN 51 requires it to be on Snelling south of 94, unless that clause was added for the purpose of keeping it off Ayd Mill.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 17, 2020, 03:04:56 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on February 17, 2020, 02:51:12 AM
Wasn't Ayd Mill Rd originally supposed to be a re-routed MN-51?
That wouldn't have been allowed because the legislative route definition of MN 51 requires it to be on Snelling south of 94, unless that clause was added for the purpose of keeping it off Ayd Mill.
My understanding is that that is exactly the reason it is worded that way.
^ That is correct.
Early 1960's plans had a full freeway Ayd Mill from 35E and directly tying into Snelling just north of Marshall, then continuing north along Snelling. It's reasonable to conclude that this was originally intended as a MN 51 freeway.
The legislation that specifically keeps 51 on Snelling south of 94 was enacted in the mid-70s and was championed by Ayd Mill freeway opponents.
Why on earth you'd want all that traffic on Lexington instead of Ayd Mill is beyond me
I gather MN-51 was meant to be a freeway corridor at one point, simply due to the portions that *were* built (Ayd Mill Rd (proposed), Pierce Butler to Como, County B to County C, (mostly) Hamline to 694)
MNDoT announced a major reconstruction of Highway 61. Two areas will be rebuilt: the stretch through Grand Marais, and another stretch further north, through the Grand Portage Indian Reservation.
Here's a link to an article about the project:
http://www.startribune.com/major-roadwork-is-coming-to-north-end-of-the-north-shore-this-summer/568064292/
I had known about the planned Grand Marais rebuild for a couple years, but the Grand Portage part is news to me. The reconstruction through Grand Portage is much needed.
I was partially surprised the Grand Marais stoplight at 61 and Broadway wasn't planned to be replaced with a roundabout, but the hilly terrain of Broadway may have had something to do with keeping the stoplight. In any case, "the stoplight" is a key part of local directions and situational awareness. Probably ROW acquisition costs as well.
I was thinking about that Grand Portage project over the last few days and how I had never heard of it until now, and I realized it was probably something that couldn't happen until Cook County finally put money into rebuilding decrepit County 17/old US 61 since it's the only viable detour route (the only possible detour route, period) for much of that stretch. That project wrapped up last fall.
^ According to the project website, the work is being done while maintaining traffic on 61. There are short bypasses at a few bridge/culvert work sites, but they are not using County 17 for a detour.
Minneapolis and St. Paul will be collaborating to lower speed limits cities-wide next week.
http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-st-paul-to-lower-speed-limits-together-this-spring/568524002/?fbclid=IwAR1VBwuuO0ECKoNnb_2xOOAyt93sSKli3s1DX6HWRHlMmXa5XJaK1bo4QUU
Minneapolis finally agreed to purchase the KMart on Lake Street yesterday. It will close on June 30, and be torn down soon afterward so Nicollet Avenue can be re opened north of Lake Street. Allowing the KMart to sever one of the main north / south streets in Minneapolis when it was built in the late 1970s is one of the worst mistakes Minneapolis has ever made.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on March 06, 2020, 03:36:48 AM
Minneapolis finally agreed to purchase the KMart on Lake Street yesterday. It will close on June 30, and be torn down soon afterward so Nicollet Avenue can be re opened north of Lake Street. Allowing the KMart to sever one of the main north / south streets in Minneapolis when it was built in the late 1970s is one of the worst mistakes Minneapolis has ever made.
I'd love to see "Eat Street" extended to 31st! 😊
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
Minneapolis and St. Paul will be collaborating to lower speed limits cities-wide next week.
http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-st-paul-to-lower-speed-limits-together-this-spring/568524002/?fbclid=IwAR1VBwuuO0ECKoNnb_2xOOAyt93sSKli3s1DX6HWRHlMmXa5XJaK1bo4QUU
"progress"
Quote from: texaskdog on March 09, 2020, 12:15:06 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
Minneapolis and St. Paul will be collaborating to lower speed limits cities-wide next week.
http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-st-paul-to-lower-speed-limits-together-this-spring/568524002/?fbclid=IwAR1VBwuuO0ECKoNnb_2xOOAyt93sSKli3s1DX6HWRHlMmXa5XJaK1bo4QUU
"progress"
And just in. 20 MPH on residential streets, 25 on city arterials, 30 elsewhere. The big problem I think is Minneapolis really wants to do something about Lyndale, but can't because that's CSAH.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 12, 2020, 02:53:10 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on March 09, 2020, 12:15:06 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 05, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
Minneapolis and St. Paul will be collaborating to lower speed limits cities-wide next week.
http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-st-paul-to-lower-speed-limits-together-this-spring/568524002/?fbclid=IwAR1VBwuuO0ECKoNnb_2xOOAyt93sSKli3s1DX6HWRHlMmXa5XJaK1bo4QUU
"progress"
And just in. 20 MPH on residential streets, 25 on city arterials, 30 elsewhere. The big problem I think is Minneapolis really wants to do something about Lyndale, but can't because that's CSAH.
And Minneapolis puts basically zero resources into traffic enforcement. This is going to be an expensive re-signing and nothing else.
Exit numbers added to most of US 212 between 62 and 494, and the infamous "END 212/BEGIN 62" has been replaced by a more appropriate "JCT EAST 62" .
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on July 21, 2017, 04:34:59 PM
On my way back from Duluth and I must've briefly passed through a time warp back to 2007, because I saw this on SB I-35. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor:
[img width=800 height=455]http://i.imgur.com/3osWYLR.jpg[/img
Contractor error on a replacement sign?
Edit to replace hasty gas station upload with straightened and cropped version of picture.
The error MN 361 sign is now gone. Appears they are replacing that entire assembly yet again, as a result of I-35 road work in that area.
The 2020 project list dropped today, including:
-rebuild/widens of I-94 from 494/694 to MN 101, and from MN 25 to MN 24
-three major projects continuing on I-35W, rebuilding the Minnesota River bridge, 46th St into downtown, and the MnPass lane from MN 36 to Lexington
-rebuild of the eastern 94/494/694 interchange, but only upgrades to the existing leaf with no flyovers being added
-US 14 from Owatonna to Dodge Center 4-laning filling in the expressway gap
-interchange on US 169 at 101sr Ave in Brooklyn Park, extending the freeway segment a little further north
The I-35 Duluth project has been postponed a year due to cost increases.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html
Quote-rebuild/widens of I-94 from 494/694 to MN 101
More specifically, while the project includes a full rebuild from 494/694 to 101, the lane addition is specifically between 610 and 101, partially in conjunction with the new Dayton interchange that is also being built.
One you didn't mention for 94: rebuilding and widening in Wright County from 241 to the Albertville interchange complex (more specifically CSAH 37 westbound and from CSAH 19 eastbound).
(and yes, I realize I said "specifically" three times, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 02, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
-rebuild of the eastern 94/494/694 interchange, but only upgrades to the existing leaf with no flyovers being added
Booooo!
That junction should have higher speed ramps from SB -> EB and WB -> SB.
Not in the budget. The main driving force behind that project is the need to replace the 494/694 bridges over 94.
Other than funding concerns, why was the stretch of I-94 between CSAH 19 and TH 25 left out? Challenges of expanding the road through MnRoad? I have concerns about a new bottleneck at peak times.
^ I know the project manager and have talked to her about that. It really is "funding concerns" why Monticello to Albertville is thus far left out. She also said they're trying to locate funding to complete that gap sooner rather than later.
Clearwater to Monticello is happening primarily because of the need to replace the existing pavement. But volumes are too high to run single-lane through that stretch, so the reconstruction will take out the median to add additional lanes in order to keep 2 lanes each way. And will open to 3 lanes each way once construction is complete.
Quote from: texaskdog on February 14, 2020, 10:10:38 AM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on February 13, 2020, 04:31:12 AM
The Minneapolis Star Tribune is reporting that the cost of converting Ayd Mill Road in St Paul into a three lane road, with one lane for bikes and pedestrians, has increased to $7.5 Million. The article also says Ayd Mill Road burns up 1/3 of the city's pothole budget every year. Here's a link to the article:
http://www.startribune.com/cost-for-fixing-ayd-mill-road-in-st-paul-soars-to-7-5-million/567806142/
My favorite quote in the article is that one St Paul city council member questions the plan, and says "We've seen numerous times where, when we rush through a project, we tend to make a lot of mistakes," he said. "This doesn't give us a lot of confidence."
Personally, I think St Paul should invest the money to keep it a 4 lane quasi-freeway, and invest the money to make sure the pavement is durable. I know that's too much to hope for.......
Here's a link to another article, from last summer, about Ayd Mill's problem plagued history. It really should have been a four lane freeway link between I-94 and I-35E, but politicians avoided making the tough decisions required to do so.
http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-mayor-pitches-green-option-for-crumbling-ayd-mill-road/558253492/?refresh=true
Yeah, it's 2/14 and apparently people are going to ride bikes to work. they should connect it to I-94 and remove all exit ramps (entrance ramps only). Problem solved.
b
Last night, St Paul voted to switch Ayd Mill Road to a three lane parkway, with one lane reserved for bicycles. The Star Tribune article (see the link below) says the city knows removing a lane will increase the number of people using city streets at peak hours, but they went ahead with the project anyway.
https://www.startribune.com/st-paul-s-ayd-mill-road-will-get-a-greenway-in-2020/569871822/
There's been a debate about just how much traffic diversion there would be. And the diversion wouldn't be to residential side streets anyway....it'd be mainly to Lexington.
Also, volumes north of Grand Ave are within the 4-to-3 threshold range.
Anoka County is looking for funding to remove the final two traffic signals on US 10 through Ramsey, at Ramsey Boulevard and Sunfish Lake Boulevard. Building interchanges at these two intersections would cost $138 Million, but it would eliminate a major bottleneck. Here's a link to a Star Tribune article:
https://www.startribune.com/ramsey-seeks-138m-to-remove-traffic-lights-bottlenecks-from-hwy-10/570238422/
According to the article, the last two traffic signals on US 10 in Anoka are already due to be replaced with interchanges, and upgrades are also planned for the US 169 / US 10 interchange in Elk River.
It sure would be nice to get the two interchanges in Ramsey built.....
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on May 06, 2020, 02:04:50 PM
Anoka County is looking for funding to remove the final two traffic signals on US 10 through Ramsey, at Ramsey Boulevard and Sunfish Lake Boulevard. Building interchanges at these two intersections would cost $138 Million, but it would eliminate a major bottleneck. Here's a link to a Star Tribune article:
https://www.startribune.com/ramsey-seeks-138m-to-remove-traffic-lights-bottlenecks-from-hwy-10/570238422/
According to the article, the last two traffic signals on US 10 in Anoka are already due to be replaced with interchanges, and upgrades are also planned for the US 169 / US 10 interchange in Elk River.
It sure would be nice to get the two interchanges in Ramsey built.....
It can't come soon enough, in my opinion. I've always disliked that stretch through Anoka and Ramsey because of the stoplights. It wasn't too terrible the last time I was there, but that might have had something to do with the fact that it was -19 degrees and Christmas break...
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on May 06, 2020, 02:04:50 PM
Anoka County is looking for funding to remove the final two traffic signals on US 10 through Ramsey, at Ramsey Boulevard and Sunfish Lake Boulevard. Building interchanges at these two intersections would cost $138 Million, but it would eliminate a major bottleneck. Here's a link to a Star Tribune article:
https://www.startribune.com/ramsey-seeks-138m-to-remove-traffic-lights-bottlenecks-from-hwy-10/570238422/
According to the article, the last two traffic signals on US 10 in Anoka are already due to be replaced with interchanges, and upgrades are also planned for the US 169 / US 10 interchange in Elk River.
It sure would be nice to get the two interchanges in Ramsey built.....
I see there are still an appreciable number of driveways with direct connections. Are there plans to add frontage roads or otherwise address the driveways?
A problem with that area is a lot of the businesses with those driveways are older and located right on top of the road where adding frontage roads won't be feasible, unless they're routed behind the businesses and new connections to them added on that side, or the businesses purchased and razed. Adding any frontage roads will be complicated further by the railroad line on the north side.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on May 06, 2020, 02:04:50 PM
Anoka County is looking for funding to remove the final two traffic signals on US 10 through Ramsey, at Ramsey Boulevard and Sunfish Lake Boulevard. Building interchanges at these two intersections would cost $138 Million, but it would eliminate a major bottleneck. Here's a link to a Star Tribune article:
https://www.startribune.com/ramsey-seeks-138m-to-remove-traffic-lights-bottlenecks-from-hwy-10/570238422/
According to the article, the last two traffic signals on US 10 in Anoka are already due to be replaced with interchanges, and upgrades are also planned for the US 169 / US 10 interchange in Elk River.
It sure would be nice to get the two interchanges in Ramsey built.....
I see there are still an appreciable number of driveways with direct connections. Are there plans to add frontage roads or otherwise address the driveways?
A problem with that area is a lot of the businesses with those driveways are older and located right on top of the road where adding frontage roads won't be feasible, unless they're routed behind the businesses and new connections to them added on that side, or the businesses purchased and razed. Adding any frontage roads will be complicated further by the railroad line on the north side.
The STrib article says some of the money is being sought to "re route adjacent roads". I hope this means they are planning to address the issue of all the driveways, because once US 10 becomes "free flowing", it would become even more dangerous for people to enter and exit the driveways.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on May 08, 2020, 03:05:55 PM
Quote from: rte66man on May 07, 2020, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on May 06, 2020, 02:04:50 PM
Anoka County is looking for funding to remove the final two traffic signals on US 10 through Ramsey, at Ramsey Boulevard and Sunfish Lake Boulevard. Building interchanges at these two intersections would cost $138 Million, but it would eliminate a major bottleneck. Here's a link to a Star Tribune article:
https://www.startribune.com/ramsey-seeks-138m-to-remove-traffic-lights-bottlenecks-from-hwy-10/570238422/
According to the article, the last two traffic signals on US 10 in Anoka are already due to be replaced with interchanges, and upgrades are also planned for the US 169 / US 10 interchange in Elk River.
It sure would be nice to get the two interchanges in Ramsey built.....
I see there are still an appreciable number of driveways with direct connections. Are there plans to add frontage roads or otherwise address the driveways?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 07, 2020, 09:44:47 PM
A problem with that area is a lot of the businesses with those driveways are older and located right on top of the road where adding frontage roads won't be feasible, unless they're routed behind the businesses and new connections to them added on that side, or the businesses purchased and razed. Adding any frontage roads will be complicated further by the railroad line on the north side.
The STrib article says some of the money is being sought to "re route adjacent roads". I hope this means they are planning to address the issue of all the driveways, because once US 10 becomes "free flowing", it would become even more dangerous for people to enter and exit the driveways.
Fixed your formatting.
Gotta be meticulous with those nested quotes.
Some notes:
- A number of the properties on the north side of 10 between Armstrong and the Anoka line have already been purchased by the city, including 9 of the properties between Ramsey Blvd and Sunfish Lake.
- The current plan for a frontage road on the north side of 10 between Ramsey Blvd and Sunfish Lake calls for moving the westbound 10 lanes more into the median and using part of the existing westbound lanes footprint for the frontage road. This would minimize some of the property impacts that TheHighwayMan394 mentioned.
- The current plan, with preliminary approval last fall from both the Ramsey City Council and Anoka County Transportation Committee, is for a tight diamond interchange at Ramsey Blvd with Ramsey bridged over both 10 and the railroad. Ramsey would also be realigned west of its existing alignment to meet 10 more perpendicularly (not unlike what was done at Armstrong). The westbound ramps would be folded to the west.
- The preliminary plan at Sunfish Lake Blvd is for Sunfish Lake to be bridged over both 10 and the railroad with a pair of buttonhook ramps on each side. The eastbound ramps would intersect with Riverdale Dr just west of the Comfort Suites, while the westbound ramps would intersect with the frontage road which would become a backage road behind Plants and Things. This backage road would then curve to become a frontage road going east and tie into the upcoming frontage road in front of the Anoka Technical College that is being built as part of the Thurston interchange project.
- One more frontage road is proposed, along the south side of 10 east of Tungsten St.
- The $138 million cost estimate mentioned in the Strib article is for all of the above, including the rail separation at Sunfish Lake. However, the Anoka County Transportation Committee's support for a rail separation at Sunfish Lake is contingent on finding funding in the next couple years. If that doesn't happen, they may rescind their support for the Sunfish Lake rail separation and instead support a lower-cost alternative that keeps the Sunfish Lake at-grade rail crossing and instead bridges 10 over Sunfish Lake. As noted above, the city fully supports rail separation at Sunfish Lake, as does BNSF.
- I'm not sure if this is included in the $138 million figure, but the city supports connecting the separate segments of McKinley St together, including the Anoka segment and also tying it into Jaspar St to become a local street alternative on the north side of the railroad.
- Lastly, while researching the above, I found a county-led feasibility study for an "add-a-lane" project (https://www.anokacounty.us/DocumentCenter/View/22767/US-10-Add-a-Lane-Feasibility-Report) on US 10 between Round Lake Blvd and Hanson Blvd. This project, currently unfunded, would add a 3rd lane in each direction on US 10.
Thank you for all those details!
I finally got bored enough in quarantine today to go check out progress on MNDOT's $350 million reconstruction and widening of I-94 from Clearwater to Maple Grove. The last time I drove this section was a couple of months ago, before any major work began. I figured I'd share some general observations about the project, considering it's both MNDOT's most expensive undertaking and longest work zone (even though it's technically three different work zones, they all pretty much function as one). For reference, I drove both directions of I-94 from the MN-15 interchange in St. Cloud (Exit 167) to the Weaver Lake Rd. interchange in Maple Grove (Exit 215). I'm not going to go into detail about the project itself (you can look upthread for more information), I just wanted to share some outsider observations as someone who drives this stretch of roadway semi-regularly when there isn't a global pandemic :)
Dynamic Message and Traffic Systems:
Given the major traffic impacts this project will have on I-94 between St. Cloud and the metro, MNDOT temporarily installed a crapload of ITS equipment that provides real-time travel information to drivers. The first of these signs eastbound is just prior to the MN-15 interchange at MM 167; westbound I'd imagine it's somewhere along the I-94/694 duplex but I don't know for sure.
Eastbound, the display method is a combination of temporary movable dynamic message signs and an existing permanent system that was put in maybe seven or eight years ago, which is weird because MNDOT has permanent dynamic signage spaced every couple of miles throughout the project limits. Westbound, the display method is almost exclusively temporary DM signs, as permanent dynamic signage is sparse beyond the MN-101 interchange.
The temporary signs only display the time to the next major interchange ('TIME TO MN-25/ X MINUTES'), while the existing ITS systems display two interchanges in MNDOT's more typical time-to/destination format.
Lane Changes/Shifts: One of the reasons that I chose to take this drive today is because of a number of changes to the traffic pattern that have happened over the past few weeks. The most notable of these being an express/local lane setup on the eastbound lanes from MN-101 to I-494 in which the left two lanes are shifted to westbound roadway, which is being run in a 3 lanes WB/2 lanes EB configuration to allow crews to work on the two leftmost lanes of the eastbound carriageway.
The other eastbound lane is reserved for the three local exits between MN-101 and I-494; MN-610, Maple Grove Pkwy, and Weaver Lake Rd. This change just took effect two days ago so I'm assuming there's some issues left to be worked out, but the process of getting into the local lanes was a little confusing. I along with a half-dozen other drivers assumed that the local lane began right at the MN-101 interchange and would continue as a single lane through the interchange, but we were surprised to find that the righthand lane was in fact still an exit only lane and the entire EB carriageway was closed between the gore point and the point of merge (I suppose to allow this section to be reconstructed first). In other words, the lane drop from three to two lanes at MN-101 is still, unfortunately, a thing.
While the MN-101 exit was technically signed properly as right lane exit only on the overhead signs, MNDOT could stand to install another temporary sign a mile or so before the gore point that says 'MN-101/RIGHT LANE/EXIT ONLY' or something along those lines to avoid confusion since the permanent BGS's aren't always trusted in road construction zones. I also hope that temporary lighting is on the way for the express/local split because I'd imagine it only gets more confusing at night with all those lane shifts in such a short span. Beyond that little misconception (which, like I said, nearly all local travelers were dealing with), the exit for the local lanes was actually signed well (again, this traffic pattern has only been in place for two days so I had no idea what to expect signage-wise for the local lanes).
Traffic:
Traffic was flowing super well in both the express and local lanes at 3PM on a Thursday, which was impressive. Westbound, despite there being no major lane shifts or new traffic patterns traffic was backed up from I-494 to just beyond MN-610, which isn't too out of the ordinary. Aside from that and the approach to the eastbound lane shifts west of MN-101 traffic was flowing normally.
Other Notes (No Particular Order):
The majority of the major work going on at this point is from MN-101 to I-494, where I can see grading beginning for the new Brockton Lane interchange as well as the new fourth lane. Crews were just beginning to tear up some of the old pavement eastbound around MN-610.
The CASH 19 to MN-241 section through St. Michael is also progressing quite nicely, though most of the work is concentrated to the CSAH 19 bridge and MN-241 interchange/new loop ramp.
The only evidence of work on the MN-24 to MN-25 section was grading in the median for the future third lane between MN-25 and CSAH 8. Eastbound traffic was reduced to one lane from the CSAH 8 Hasty interchange to MN-25, again with no traffic impacts. There's no evidence of work from MN-24 TO CSAH 8 yet.
BOTH rest areas within the project limits (the Enfield rest area between Clearwater and Monticello and the Elm Creek rest area in Maple Grove) are signed as being open to trucks only, despite the MNDOT website only indicating that the latter is closed to autos.
The project limits except for the aforementioned MN-24 to CSAH 8 are signed at 60MPH (if there was a drop to 50 at Maple Grove Pkwy where the road normally drops from 70 to 60, I didn't see it, so I think it's all posted at 60).
I wish I could've gotten pictures, but I see no way that I could have managed that at 60+MPH unless I had a dash cam or was riding as a passenger. Maybe later in the project. Overall I'm impressed with the way construction is progressing, and it seems to be staged in a way that will cause minimal impact to traffic. Really my only complaint is the temporary signage at the MN-101 interchange, which I'm sure will be modified in no time.
Aaannnddd I'm just now realizing how much I've typed... this is quite the ramble. Read at your own risk :-P
A section of MN 244 has been turned back between MN 120 and downtown Willernie. I'm supposing MnDOT and Washington County couldn't agree on the remainder of it yet.
What's fun though is the MN 120 north end is still a four-way endpoint as Washington County 12, which replaced that section of 244 ends there.
MnDOT is using an express/local setup on I-94 eastbound between MN 101 and 494/694 during construction, and it's already been causing a fair share of confusion and accidents. It's going to be a long summer.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 25, 2020, 01:12:52 PM
MnDOT is using an express/local setup on I-94 eastbound between MN 101 and 494/694 during construction, and it's already been causing a fair share of confusion and accidents. It's going to be a long summer.
Do you have a diagram and/or a link to where I can find an illustration of the setup?
WSDOT used an express/local setup on I-5 through Tacoma (WA) during a construction project, and it took a good 6-8 months before I was no longer seeing
as much last-second swerving. The problem was the temporary use of those plastic giveaway bollards...drivers would routinely drive over them to reach their exit. Eventually, the freeway was restriped and concrete barriers put up.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 25, 2020, 01:12:52 PM
MnDOT is using an express/local setup on I-94 eastbound between MN 101 and 494/694 during construction, and it's already been causing a fair share of confusion and accidents. It's going to be a long summer.
OkDOT is doing the same thing on WB I44 at the I235 reconstruction. Poorly signed and very confusing.
I-94
(https://i.imgur.com/4U4nobf.jpg)
Stillwater lift Bridge 5 minutes after opening
(https://i.imgur.com/otMa2mk.jpg)
Is that I-94 shot from Maple Grove Pkwy?
Yes
(https://i.imgur.com/RK2xP3e.jpg)
The I-35W traffic camera at 110th Street is essentially a web cam for the I-35W Minnesota River Bridge construction.
Am I the only one whose first thought was "holy crap, the image quality of traffic cams has improved infinitely"?
Regarding last month's discussion on US 10/169 in Ramsey (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg2497094#msg2497094), it was announced that the project has received a $40M INFRA grant (https://www.hometownsource.com/abc_newspapers/news/government/40-million-grant-secured-for-highways-10-169-improvements/article_20858dfc-b0e7-11ea-8b1f-7b87cb9f263a.html).
So it appears MnDOT is giving up on the idea of the EZ-Pass people being able to accept ISO-1800 6C, so they're just going to start issuing EZ-Pass compatible active transponders to new MnPass customers and any existing customers that want one starting next summer as well. Presumably MnPass will also be able to work in Florida now that Florida is doing the same thing. I will finally get one if I can use it in Florida and Chicago.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/mnpass/mnpassnews.html#otherstates
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 15, 2020, 10:13:52 AM
So it appears MnDOT is giving up on the idea of the EZ-Pass people being able to accept ISO-1800 6C, so they're just going to start issuing EZ-Pass compatible active transponders to new MnPass customers and any existing customers that want one starting next summer as well. Presumably MnPass will also be able to work in Florida now that Florida is doing the same thing. I will finally get one if I can use it in Florida and Chicago.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/mnpass/mnpassnews.html#otherstates
That's interesting, but seems to be more of a "nice to have" than a "need" since we don't have full-size toll roads. Trying to entice new customers if they can use their passes elsewhere?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 15, 2020, 02:58:01 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 15, 2020, 10:13:52 AM
So it appears MnDOT is giving up on the idea of the EZ-Pass people being able to accept ISO-1800 6C, so they're just going to start issuing EZ-Pass compatible active transponders to new MnPass customers and any existing customers that want one starting next summer as well. Presumably MnPass will also be able to work in Florida now that Florida is doing the same thing. I will finally get one if I can use it in Florida and Chicago.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/mnpass/mnpassnews.html#otherstates
That's interesting, but seems to be more of a "nice to have" than a "need" since we don't have full-size toll roads. Trying to entice new customers if they can use their passes elsewhere?
It's what I've been waiting for all these years. I'll likely finally buy one.
It seems MNDOT's first attempt at constructing a signalized RCI at MN-65 and Viking Blvd in the north metro last year has turned out to be quite a disaster. I can't say I'm surprised.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/residents-want-change-at-dangerous-hwy-65-intersection-in-east-bethel/ar-BB17i1p3?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Quote from: EpicRoadways on July 28, 2020, 03:19:10 PM
It seems MNDOT's first attempt at constructing a signalized RCI at MN-65 and Viking Blvd in the north metro last year has turned out to be quite a disaster. I can't say I'm surprised.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/residents-want-change-at-dangerous-hwy-65-intersection-in-east-bethel/ar-BB17i1p3?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
There's a number of factors at play here. Stoplights on a road posted for 65 mph is ambitious. Two lanes turning right is ambitious. Pushing nearly 30,000 vpd on MN-65 and 6000 vpd on Viking through this intersection is ambitious. Expecting idiot American drivers to navigate this while maintaining lane discipline - that's just laughable.
I think you can Band-Aid this by not allowing turns on red. But ultimately, yes, an overpass is needed here.
I think a RCI being asked to handle that level of traffic in a ostensibly rural area is asking a lot.
Anoka County 22/Viking Blvd has steadily grown into a fairly heavily trafficked corridor across north central Anoka County as the metro has fanned outward, and although it's still entirely two-lane, new stoplights have popped up at a couple intersections along it in the last several years, and then the RCI replacing the previous standard signal at MN 65.
I agree that banning turns on red should help for the moment. I know MnDOT probably wanted a cheaper solution than a full interchange, but unfortunately sometimes there's just no way around it.
^ I would argue, given recent studies in conjunction with the Met Council, that MnDOT's preference would be for an interchange at 65/Viking. They just can't afford to build one at the present...
Signage would suggest that RTOR is only permitted from the right lane. If the issue may lie with the double right turns, this should have prevented issues with people blindly turning without ensuring it's clear. In practice, I'm not usually a fan of such restrictions as they tend to increase traffic in the lane that allows turns on red, but that's not to say that it might not be effective in reducing/preventing crashes.
In practice, making a hard right turn from a stop is no different from the original intersection. The original lacked slip lanes, and did not have any NTOR signage.
If I had to suggest a change, probably eliminate turns on red for both lanes, and change the signals to red arrows to further enhance the change. MN law may not have separate rules for red arrows, but when used elsewhere, they do seem to reduce the number of cars turning on red, even when the law allows it. Here in WA, for example, I do see slightly fewer cars turning on red with a red arrow. I don't know if this is because of a high number of CA transplants, but it's something I've noticed.
Some better markings may be in order as well. I'm thinking edge markings for all movements, rather than just an extension of the white line.
As a side-note, I have no reason to believe signal placement is problematic. MN always does quite well in this department. My only suggested change might be to add near-side signals to all approaches for both sides of each stop line, especially for the Viking Blvd approach if NTOR is implemented. Pulling back the stop line may also help. It would make an "illegal" turn on red that much more awkward.
As another side-note, why was this intersection rebuilt? Traffic issues? Because safety does not appear to have been a major issue.
The problem doesn't seem to be the right turns; it's the Michigan left U-turns that are causing the problems. It was an aging intersection that had grown more congested on Viking; there was also a large dip on Viking crossing between the MN 65 carriageways that had an advisory speed of 20 MPH on a road posted at 55, not that you were likely to get through the intersection with a green light long enough to go 55 anyway. Having gone through the intersection fairly frequently before it was rebuilt, and having driven through it once since it reopened, I can see why it's causing problems for some.
Quote from: jakerootMN law may not have separate rules for red arrows,
Section 169.06 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.06), Subdivision 5, Subsection 3iii covers red arrows. To summarize, turning on a red arrow is prohibited in Minnesota unless specifically signed that turns on red are allowed.
It's interesting to me that RTOR is an issue at this intersection. I drive through a similar situation at the MN-15/CSAH 120 DDI in St Cloud almost daily and I don't think I've ever seen anyone turn right on red (or left on red in the other direction, for that matter) at the dual turn lanes despite it being permitted. While it doesn't surprise me that the Viking installation is (was?) permitted RTOR, it surprises me a little bit that people would actually use it in practice.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 29, 2020, 05:33:38 PM
The problem doesn't seem to be the right turns; it's the Michigan left U-turns that are causing the problems. It was an aging intersection that had grown more congested on Viking; there was also a large dip on Viking crossing between the MN 65 carriageways that had an advisory speed of 20 MPH on a road posted at 55, not that you were likely to get through the intersection with a green light long enough to go 55 anyway. Having gone through the intersection fairly frequently before it was rebuilt, and having driven through it once since it reopened, I can see why it's causing problems for some.
So, with regard to the Michigan left U-turns, is it that left turns are permitted on red, and drivers are misinterpreting speeds when attempting to make the left turn? Or turning into the incorrect lane?
For the record, while the Michigan left U-turns might be the problem, the photo in the story clearly shows a crash at the double right turn. Hence my earlier position and comment.
Quote from: froggie on July 29, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
MN law may not have separate rules for red arrows,
Section 169.06 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.06), Subdivision 5, Subsection 3iii covers red arrows. To summarize, turning on a red arrow is prohibited in Minnesota unless specifically signed that turns on red are allowed.
Thank you. Still can't keep track of where it's permitted, versus where it's not. MN struck me as a state that would have permitted it. Don't ask why!
Quote from: EpicRoadways on July 29, 2020, 07:12:57 PM
It's interesting to me that RTOR is an issue at this intersection. I drive through a similar situation at the MN-15/CSAH 120 DDI in St Cloud almost daily and I don't think I've ever seen anyone turn right on red (or left on red in the other direction, for that matter) at the dual turn lanes despite it being permitted. While it doesn't surprise me that the Viking installation is (was?) permitted RTOR, it surprises me a little bit that people would actually use it in practice.
If
TheHighwayMan394's comment above is any indication, it doesn't seem to be the double right turn (although, from the story, crashes do still occur there).
I know around my area (Seattle), NTOR restrictions are generally quite rare, so it would not be unusual to see traffic turning on red from both lanes at a similar installation. Are NTOR restrictions pretty typical in MN at double right turns?
If the intersection was going to be signaled anyway, I don't understand why a continuous-flow intersection wasn't built since they don't have funds for a full interchange. The one pictured is the design from INDOT at the intersection of U.S. 31 and SR 135/Thompson Road on the south side of Indianapolis mentioned on the Indiana Notes thread. I've used one at MO 30 and Summit Road SW of St Louis several times when I lived there. It's not that much more expensive and easily handles both the through and cross-traffic. There is more than enough room in the median to build one. It looks like Minnesota took the cheapest route possible regardless of whether it would work.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50155477603_483a6d54b8_c.jpg)
In news that isn't strictly road related, but will have a HUGE impact on the transportation system in the Twin Cities, MnDoT announced today that they are not going to build the Blue Line light rail extension from downtown Minneapolis to Target's north campus near the 610 / 169 interchange on its previously planned alignment, due to "an inability to work with the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad", whose tracks parallel the preferred alignment for about eight miles. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/hennepin-met-council-abandon-route-for-bottineau-blue-line/571994512/
What the article doesn't say is that BNSF stopped cooperating with Hennepin county about the Blue Line extension after the county blocked a proposed link between the Canadian Pacific and the BNSF that would have reduced congestion in a BNSF yard, but increased the number of trains going through some of the same communities that the Blue Line extension was planned to pass through. Here's a link to a discussion about the controversy:
https://streets.mn/2019/07/01/the-blue-line-extension-in-limbo/
Personally, I think that the BNSF's unwillingness to cooperate with Hennepin County about the blue line extension was definitely affected by the county's unwillingness to help BNSF with their connection to the Canadian Pacific. Hennepin County won the battle, but they may have lost the war.
However, although I strongly supported the Twin Cities' light rail system pre-covid, now, I strongly question whether the money being spent on it is the best use of transportation dollars. Many people who started working from home due to covid will never resume working in offices. This will significantly reduce rush hour traffic, and it also reduces the need for an expensive light rail line; thanks to people working from home, the Twin Cities' freeway system is going to have a lot more capacity.
Quote from: froggie on July 29, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
Section 169.06 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.06), Subdivision 5, Subsection 3iii covers red arrows. To summarize, turning on a red arrow is prohibited in Minnesota unless specifically signed that turns on red are allowed.
I was in the Twin Cities area recently, and was at a dual right turn lane, in the inner lane, with a cop next to me. It was in Chaska at Jonathan Carver Pkwy & Chaska Blvd. I stayed in that lane until it turned green! Looking on Streetview, it looks like the intersection doesn't have red arrows.
You never know all of the laws of other states!
The county could solve some of the Blue Line issue by running it down the middle of Bottineau/CSAH 81. 81 does *NOT* need to be 6 lanes. The sticking point, though, would still be getting it from Robbinsdale to Target Field.
Too bad we just finished rebuilding the entire length of Bottineau. And I agree that BNSF smelled blood in the water and is out for revenge. If you kick someone in the groin chances are they're going to kick you back rather than cooperate with you. Schoolkids know this. Hennepin County commissioners don't seem to.
Trying to figure out where/how this BNSF/CP connection would have gone.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Crystal,+MN/@45.047828,-93.3557451,504m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x52b33698653e30f3:0xf0c5e9963f833bdd!8m2!3d45.0327425!4d-93.3602286
Where CP Rail and BNSF tracks cross in Crystal. CP sends oil trains easttbound that enter the BNSF Northtown Yard to continue farther east on the BNSF system. BNSF wanted to build a connection between the west and south legs so rather than entering the over-capacity Northtown Yard oil trains would be diverted southeast along the Monticello subdivision, coincidentally where light rail would go, then northeast along Target Field entering the BNSF downtstream from the yard
Only for the humor of it, at the end of the Two Harbors Expressway on MN 61 there is a short piece of two-lane road posted at 55 between the end of the expressway and the edge of town. Last time I was there, the speed limit on this piece had been upped to 60 MPH southbound only while it remained at 55 northbound. I wonder if perhaps it fell strictly under the mandated 55 MPH road studies. Anyway, MnDOT did some sign replacement in the region and the entire stretch is now back at 55.
Stillwater Loop Trail Time Lapse that I did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTfhm6XD9Ns
Quote from: skluth on July 30, 2020, 11:35:07 PM
If the intersection was going to be signaled anyway, I don't understand why a continuous-flow intersection wasn't built since they don't have funds for a full interchange. The one pictured is the design from INDOT at the intersection of U.S. 31 and SR 135/Thompson Road on the south side of Indianapolis mentioned on the Indiana Notes thread. I've used one at MO 30 and Summit Road SW of St Louis several times when I lived there. It's not that much more expensive and easily handles both the through and cross-traffic. There is more than enough room in the median to build one. It looks like Minnesota took the cheapest route possible regardless of whether it would work.
Yeah, Gravois/Summit is the only CFI in my area and it works fine. MN should look into it. Are there any CFIs yet in MN?
Quote from: Mdcastle on August 25, 2020, 11:14:04 PM
Stillwater Loop Trail Time Lapse that I did
I get a kick out of the 'hill climbing lane' on the Wisconsin side of the path.
Saw the new completed diamond interchange between US 14 and MN 15 just outside New Ulm on Monday. I feel like I'm wrong about this but I think this is the first full interchange between (for now) 2 two-lane roads in the state, but even when US 14's expansion is complete, MN 15 is the priority movement.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 02, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
I feel like I'm wrong about this but I think this is the first full interchange between (for now) 2 two-lane roads in the state, but even when US 14's expansion is complete, MN 15 is the priority movement.
Are you not counting
MN-23 @ Kandiyohi CH-5 (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23kandi5/index.html)? I drove through this interchange on
October 6 and 8, 2017 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21268.msg2264805#msg2264805).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 02, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
Saw the new completed diamond interchange between US 14 and MN 15 just outside New Ulm on Monday. I feel like I'm wrong about this but I think this is the first full interchange between (for now) 2 two-lane roads in the state, but even when US 14's expansion is complete, MN 15 is the priority movement.
Third such interchange. MN 55/MN 28 outside Glenwood has existed as a diamond since the '70s. And then there's US 12/Hennepin CSAH 6 on the Long Lake Bypass.
kphoger: MN 23/CSAH 5 doesn't count because it still involves a left turn off EB 23 to access CSAH 5. It's basically a 3/4 intersection combined with an eastbound on-ramp.
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2020, 04:11:21 PM
And then there's US 12/Hennepin CSAH 6 on the Long Lake Bypass.
How did I forget that one? Driven through it many times. Oh, yeah, it's because the Jersey barrier makes me forget it's still really just a two-lane highway.
I'm trying to remember... Was the barrier original to the construction, or did the interchange survive for about a year without one?
So what were they thinking making 15 the through route when 14 is the future expressway?
Quote from: kphogerI'm trying to remember... Was the barrier original to the construction, or did the interchange survive for about a year without one?
Barrier in the immediate footprint of the CSAH 6 interchange is original to construction. Barrier beyond the interchange is more recent...within the past couple years.
Quote from: MdcastleSo what were they thinking making 15 the through route when 14 is the future expressway?
Probably because you have CSAH 21 as a "fourth leg" of the junction and it's far easier to make a diamond interchange than to make something favoring US 14's through movements. Traffic counts also show that there's almost as much traffic on 15 North as there is on 14 East.
Quote from: kphoger on September 02, 2020, 04:22:09 PM
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2020, 04:11:21 PM
And then there's US 12/Hennepin CSAH 6 on the Long Lake Bypass.
How did I forget that one? Driven through it many times. Oh, yeah, it's because the Jersey barrier makes me forget it's still really just a two-lane highway.
I'm trying to remember... Was the barrier original to the construction, or did the interchange survive for about a year without one?
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2020, 09:34:15 PM
Barrier in the immediate footprint of the CSAH 6 interchange is original to construction. Barrier beyond the interchange is more recent...within the past couple years.
Yep, thanks! That totally jives with my experience driving it, plus GSV I've looked at since then while discussing the corridor on this forum.
I've never driven the corridor since the barrier was extended. I wonder how many of you guys have ever done what I've done once or twice: successfully passed someone along the super-2 section west of Wayzata. Traffic is always thick on that highway, but there has been one or two occasions when I've been able to pass–I think I even remember passing multiple vehicles at a time there once.
Quote from: kphoger on September 03, 2020, 09:27:42 AM
I wonder how many of you guys have ever done what I've done once or twice: successfully passed someone along the super-2 section west of Wayzata. Traffic is always thick on that highway, but there has been one or two occasions when I've been able to pass–I think I even remember passing multiple vehicles at a time there once.
A feat never to be repeated since they added that jersey barrier. No one will match you.
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2020, 09:34:15 PM
Quote from: MdcastleSo what were they thinking making 15 the through route when 14 is the future expressway?
Probably because you have CSAH 21 as a "fourth leg" of the junction and it's far easier to make a diamond interchange than to make something favoring US 14's through movements. Traffic counts also show that there's almost as much traffic on 15 North as there is on 14 East.
It's a bit surprising the junction just to the east of the interchange on US 14 wasn't removed and CSAH 21 redirected to directly connect to itself west of the interchange by building a longer interchange bridge on MN 15 to cross both US 14 and CSAH 21.
^ Not sure of the need. Would have added a bit of cost. And then there's the question of how to connect 14 and 15 to 21. Might also be a grade issue with the SB off-ramp from 15.
(https://i.imgur.com/XAuP3qi.jpg)
New 14 coming along nicely.
On Tuesday, MnDoT will be having a virtual open house from 4:30 PM to 6:00 PM, to discuss possible upgrades to MN-65 in Spring Lake Park, Blaine, and Ham Lake.
You need to pre-register at bit.ly/hwy65mtg to attend
More information about possible alternatives is on the Star Tribune's website: https://www.startribune.com/mndot-seeks-ideas-to-unclog-hwy-65/572556631/
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, actually gets built.
The decrepit leaf at County 10 that remains from the US 10 days definitely needs to be rebuilt/reconfigured.
^ It will, but not in the way one would expect.
There are two options being considered at County 10. One would replace the cloverleaf with a standard diamond, with County 10 as the "through route" (and, thus, two more signals on 65). The second option would expand out both routes through the interchange footprint into what is effectively a pair of one-way roads, all crossing at-grade. Kinda like how the ramps all intersect at a volleyball interchange except it's the mainlines intersecting. Not sure I like either option.
Next, 87th would be bridged over 65, with the intersections at 85th and 89th converted into a right-in or right-out in a way to effectively make an "interchange" centered on 87th but with all "loop ramps". For example, northbound 65 would have a right-in only at 85th and a right-out only at 89th.
There are two options at US 10. Both options retain the existing EB 10 off-ramp and signal to 65. Both options also include a grade-separated U-turn ramp from northbound to southbound located at approximately the equivalent of 92nd Lane. This U-turn ramp would serve both the WB 10 to SB 65 and NB 65 to WB 10 movements. The U-turn ramp would also tie into the ramps going to/from a 93rd Lane interchange. Where the options differ is in the SB 65 to EB 10 access. One option would retain the existing loop ramp, but connect it directly to the SB to WB ramp and the ramp coming off 93rd. In other words, SB 65 traffic would exit at 93rd, then continue across 93rd to access either direction on 10. The second option would remove the loop ramp and instead add a displaced-left-turn located approximately at the existing WB off-ramp terminal. The video simulation suggests that the proposed SB on-ramp from 93rd would also tie into the signal system here, so that traffic from 93rd can access EB 10.
There are three options between 93rd and 117th. All three would build what is fundamentally a tight-diamond interchange (mentioned above) at 93rd. Option 1 is basically similar to a traditional freeway, with tight diamond interchanges at 109th (albeit with the NB off-ramp exiting at 105th) and 117th, and a modified interchange with NB ramps at 99th and a pair of SB buttonhook ramps at 103rd connecting to a new west side frontage road between 99th and 109th at Ulysses St. Option 2 is called the "Hybrid Freeway", and the easiest way I can explain it is a series of grade-separated RCUTs. One-way service roads would be built on each side of 65 between 93rd and 117th, with a series of access ramps between the 65 mainline and the service roads. Each cross-street would T with the service roads, but a series of grade-separated U-turns would be built to provide access across 65. The U-turns would be located at 97th, just south of 101st, 107th, 113th, and 117th. Option 3 is similar to Option 2 but the through movement on 109th would be retained with an underpass under 65. Given the evaluation rankings, I would expect Option 2 to be the leading contender on this segment.
Finally, we have Bunker Lake Rd. There are also three options here. All three would close the SB RIRO at 139th and also build a frontage road on the east side of 65 between 131st and 133rd in order to close both RIRO intersections on NB 65. Option 1 at Bunker Lake is a tight-diamond interchange. Option 2 is an RCUT. Option 3 is similar to the "grade-separated RCUT" mentioned above. The evaluation rankings make the RCUT the likely decision.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 02, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
Saw the new completed diamond interchange between US 14 and MN 15 just outside New Ulm on Monday. I feel like I'm wrong about this but I think this is the first full interchange between (for now) 2 two-lane roads in the state, but even when US 14's expansion is complete, MN 15 is the priority movement.
Something else I wonder about New Ulm: does MNDOT have any plans afoot to take MN 15 off of Broadway through town and route it along US 14 instead? I don't think there are, but if they were to do so, through traffic on MN 15 approaching town from the south would presumably be directed to turn east on 20th South Street to connect to US 14. This is just speculation on my part, though.
Map of the area for reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3064557,-94.4772597,13z
Quote from: KCRoadFan on September 27, 2020, 11:51:26 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 02, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
Saw the new completed diamond interchange between US 14 and MN 15 just outside New Ulm on Monday. I feel like I'm wrong about this but I think this is the first full interchange between (for now) 2 two-lane roads in the state, but even when US 14's expansion is complete, MN 15 is the priority movement.
Something else I wonder about New Ulm: does MNDOT have any plans afoot to take MN 15 off of Broadway through town and route it along US 14 instead? I don't think there are, but if they were to do so, through traffic on MN 15 approaching town from the south would presumably be directed to turn east on 20th South Street to connect to US 14. This is just speculation on my part, though.
Map of the area for reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3064557,-94.4772597,13z
Nope. Here's the wishlist of identified jurisdiction changes (some of these have taken place in the years since this report came out, and not everything on this list is permissible due to the state constitutional routes)
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/stateaid/programlibrary/jrp-final-report.pdf
Not really any benefit to MnDOT. They'd be adding mileage without a corresponding drop elsewhere....Broadway would still carry MN 68. Nevermind that the vast bulk of traffic has an origin or destination in New Ulm....I recall the US 14 studies (for the corridor upgrade between New Ulm and Mankato) which looked at US 14 through traffic and bypass possibilities and found that only 15% of the traffic coming from the east is continuing through.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2020, 12:09:00 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on September 27, 2020, 11:51:26 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 02, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
Saw the new completed diamond interchange between US 14 and MN 15 just outside New Ulm on Monday. I feel like I'm wrong about this but I think this is the first full interchange between (for now) 2 two-lane roads in the state, but even when US 14's expansion is complete, MN 15 is the priority movement.
Something else I wonder about New Ulm: does MNDOT have any plans afoot to take MN 15 off of Broadway through town and route it along US 14 instead? I don't think there are, but if they were to do so, through traffic on MN 15 approaching town from the south would presumably be directed to turn east on 20th South Street to connect to US 14. This is just speculation on my part, though.
Map of the area for reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3064557,-94.4772597,13z
Nope. Here's the wishlist of identified jurisdiction changes (some of these have taken place in the years since this report came out, and not everything on this list is permissible due to the state constitutional routes)
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/stateaid/programlibrary/jrp-final-report.pdf
I read the report in the above link last night and found it rather interesting. One thing that really caught my eye was the proposal to decommission MN 241 in St. Michael and turn control of it to Wright County. That road is very familiar to me because my mom's sister lives right off of County 19 just south of St. Michael; coming from the south through the metro up I-94, MN 241 is the best way for us to get to her house. Having frequently traveled that corridor, I find MNDOT's proposal somewhat surprising. I'm guessing their rationale is that the road is only 4 miles long and ends at a county road. In my opinion, having frequently traveled the corridor, I feel that, amid the rapidly growing Wright County exurbia (which has been the case since the early aughts), the traffic volumes and facilities along MN 241 more than justify its status as a state highway. If anything, I think MN 241 should be extended. I was thinking the designation could overlap the portion of County 19 between downtown St. Michael and I-94 at Albertville, near the outlet mall, thus creating a state highway loop road through St. Michael; in addition, I think that MN 241 should also be extended east, taking over County 36 between I-94 and MN 101 north of Rogers.
Oh, and speaking of MN 101: another item in the MNDOT report that came across as a total shock was a proposal to turn over MN 101 to Hennepin County. It's an important road through Rogers and Elk River, to the point of actually being a freeway between I-94 and US 10/US 169. Is MNDOT really saying that
that road should be a "mere" county road? As someone who doesn't live in the area but is familiar with it from having made numerous family visits over the years - I would say I'm rather floored.
What are your thoughts?
That's the disjointed segment of MN 101 in Chanhassen/Eden Prairie along the Hennepin/Carver line that Carver County has stubbornly refused to accept for over 30 years.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2020, 05:37:11 PM
That's the disjointed segment of MN 101 in Chanhassen/Eden Prairie along the Hennepin/Carver line that Carver County has stubbornly refused to accept for over 30 years.
Thanks for clarifying. Anyway, what are your thoughts regarding MN 241 and what I said about it?
Given MnDOT's policies, if they were to keep 241, it would be a better fit to extend it to Buffalo via CSAH 35 than to make it a "loop" off 94. I also don't think it needs to extend east of 94.
As it stands now 241 is one of those 200-series spur routes the state has tried to get rid of (though this one has required 4-laning and has a 60 MPH limit for most of it), so I can see why the state wants Wright County to take it.
Hiding behind this tree https://goo.gl/maps/uVXsz1ibK6kBzzXHA is one of a pair of obelisks that exist on the on/off ramps from I-94 to downtown St Paul. This tree has slowly been growing, and is probably going to start cracking this obelisk. It looks to me, based on their existing at the end of a retaining wall existing on the ramps, that these obelisks are likely property of MnDOT, not the City of St Paul, or Ramsey County, right? If so, does anyone know the best way to contact MnDOT to find out if this is theirs, and if they have interest in trying to remove this tree before it destroys the obelisk? I'm sure most things MnDOT gets contacted about are roadways and signage, not obelisks. :) Thanks.
I note that there's another pair of obelisks like this at the corner of 10th and Wacouta for traffic coming from 35E to downtown St Paul, and can't say I've seen anything like them anywhere else, so I'll presume it's purely due to St Paul being our capital city.
Quote from: MNtoOC on October 09, 2020, 09:59:32 PM
Hiding behind this tree https://goo.gl/maps/uVXsz1ibK6kBzzXHA is one of a pair of obelisks that exist on the on/off ramps from I-94 to downtown St Paul. This tree has slowly been growing, and is probably going to start cracking this obelisk. It looks to me, based on their existing at the end of a retaining wall existing on the ramps, that these obelisks are likely property of MnDOT, not the City of St Paul, or Ramsey County, right? If so, does anyone know the best way to contact MnDOT to find out if this is theirs, and if they have interest in trying to remove this tree before it destroys the obelisk? I'm sure most things MnDOT gets contacted about are roadways and signage, not obelisks. :) Thanks.
I note that there's another pair of obelisks like this at the corner of 10th and Wacouta for traffic coming from 35E to downtown St Paul, and can't say I've seen anything like them anywhere else, so I'll presume it's purely due to St Paul being our capital city.
Here's a Reddit thread that I found about the obelisk: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/saintpaul/comments/1ofj47/does_anyone_know_the_history_or_story_around_the/
Anyway, proud to have made reply #1,000 on this thread!
The city of Maple Grove is planning to construct what is effectively the final extension of MN-610 between I-94 and CR 30 in 2023. The $22.5 million dollar project includes a four-lane overpass over I-94 and *I think* a WB 94 to SB 610 loop ramp as well, although it isn't listed in the TIP. The remaining MNDOT sections (the thru SB 610 movement with a flyover over the existing MN-610 ramps and a NB 610 to EB 94 connection) are listed as "unfunded" at this time. Given that the project is city-led, the new segment will be given the designation of 'CSAH 610'.
I originally stumbled across this project in the Met Council's 2020-2023 TIP, but the city of Maple Grove website has a lot more information:
https://www.maplegrovemn.gov/files/6615/5293/1073/610_brochure_-_completing_final_connections.pdf
https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Publications-And-Resources/Transportation-Planning/Transportation-Improvement-Program-(TIP)/2020-2023-TIP.aspx (I couldn't link just one page, but the project is listed at the top of page A-20)
Not sure if a WB 610-EB 94 movement is really needed since anyone doing that probably already got off at Maple Grove Parkway.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 13, 2020, 03:00:25 PM
Not sure if a WB 610-EB 94 movement is really needed since anyone doing that probably already got off at Maple Grove Parkway.
And longer-distance traffic would be using other routes.
Quote from: kphoger on October 13, 2020, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 13, 2020, 03:00:25 PM
Not sure if a WB 610-EB 94 movement is really needed since anyone doing that probably already got off at Maple Grove Parkway.
And longer-distance traffic would be using other routes.
This whole idea of making it a full connection between 94 and 610 grinds on me because it would be such a giant waste of money to send people right back where they came from. 94 and 610 both have interchanges at MG Parkway, 169, County 81/Bottineau, Hemlock/Zachary, and MN 252.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 13, 2020, 03:00:25 PM
Not sure if a WB 610-EB 94 movement is really needed since anyone doing that probably already got off at Maple Grove Parkway.
Back when 94/610 was proposed as a full freeway-to-freeway interchange, such a movement would allow those coming from northern Brooklyn Park via 610 to get down to the Weaver Lake area or 494 without going through the signals along Maple Grove Pkwy. Making that same movement today requires going through 7 signals.
The current plan has it as a signalized left turn from WB 610 to EB 94. But that's one signal versus the 7 along Maple Grove Pkwy.
Quote from: froggie on October 14, 2020, 11:18:47 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 13, 2020, 03:00:25 PM
Not sure if a WB 610-EB 94 movement is really needed since anyone doing that probably already got off at Maple Grove Parkway.
Back when 94/610 was proposed as a full freeway-to-freeway interchange, such a movement would allow those coming from northern Brooklyn Park via 610 to get down to the Weaver Lake area or 494 without going through the signals along Maple Grove Pkwy. Making that same movement today requires going through 7 signals.
The current plan has it as a signalized left turn from WB 610 to EB 94. But that's one signal versus the 7 along Maple Grove Pkwy.
I'd probably just use
this route (https://goo.gl/maps/uUf62tbSbthSTsM76).
^ I misspoke above. Was referring more to Fish Lake and the Maple Grove Crossing area.
As to your proposed route, both 169 and 94/694 tend to be more congested than 610 or 94 past Fish Lake.
Quote from: froggie on October 14, 2020, 11:46:08 AM
^ I misspoke above. Was referring more to Fish Lake and the Maple Grove Crossing area.
As to your proposed route, both 169 and 94/694 tend to be more congested than 610 or 94 past Fish Lake.
My route (
9.5 miles (https://goo.gl/maps/XUtqSZbDW2dw32HK8)) is still about 1½ miles shorter than using 610 to 94.
But yeah, the latter is definitely less congested–at least on 610 compared to 169. Traffic counts on I-94 at Rice Lake, though, are equivalent to those on I-94 east of Arbor Lakes (between MM 28 and 29).
US-169 = 88k AADT with 4 through lanes = 22k AADT per through lane
I-694 = 124k AADT with 6 lanes = 21k AADT per through lane
MN-610 = 44k AADT with 4 through lanes = 11k AADT per through lane
I-94 = 119k AADT with 6 through lanes = 20k AADT per through lane
Having often driven the stretch of 94 northwest of Maple Grove to visit my mom's sister in St. Michael, here's something I've sometimes wondered: what do you think of putting an exit in near the intersection of County 81 and Brockton Lane? Do you think there could/should be one there, given development patterns? Also, does MNDOT have any plans to do so?
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 15, 2020, 12:18:21 AM
Having often driven the stretch of 94 northwest of Maple Grove to visit my mom's sister in St. Michael, here's something I've sometimes wondered: what do you think of putting an exit in near the intersection of County 81 and Brockton Lane? Also, does MNDOT have any plans to do so?
They actually began work on that just this summer, part of a new road called Dayton Parkway. I'm not sure if it'll open next year or in 2022.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 13, 2020, 03:00:25 PM
Back when 94/610 was proposed as a full freeway-to-freeway interchange, such a movement would allow those coming from northern Brooklyn Park via 610 to get down to the Weaver Lake area or 494 without going through the signals along Maple Grove Pkwy. Making that same movement today requires going through 7 signals.
If I were heading to the Weaver Lake Road/shopping center area in Maple Grove from 610 in Brooklyn Park, I would probably just take 169 south to 94/694 west - that's just me though. Here's a map for reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0975878,-93.432247,13z
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 15, 2020, 12:19:43 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 15, 2020, 12:18:21 AM
Having often driven the stretch of 94 northwest of Maple Grove to visit my mom's sister in St. Michael, here's something I've sometimes wondered: what do you think of putting an exit in near the intersection of County 81 and Brockton Lane? Also, does MNDOT have any plans to do so?
They actually began work on that just this summer, part of a new road called Dayton Parkway. I'm not sure if it'll open next year or in 2022.
https://cityofdaytonmn.com/dayton-parkway-interchange/
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 15, 2020, 12:19:43 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 15, 2020, 12:18:21 AM
Having often driven the stretch of 94 northwest of Maple Grove to visit my mom's sister in St. Michael, here's something I've sometimes wondered: what do you think of putting an exit in near the intersection of County 81 and Brockton Lane? Also, does MNDOT have any plans to do so?
They actually began work on that just this summer, part of a new road called Dayton Parkway. I'm not sure if it'll open next year or in 2022.
Plans still call for the interchange itself to open in the fall of next year, but various delays and design changes to other aspects of the larger Maple Grove to Clearwater reconstruction/expansion project that the interchange construction is a part of have been pushed back to 2022 (notably the Monticello to Clearwater segment, where the project was redesigned to add the additional lanes to the outside of the existing roadway as opposed to the inside of the roadway with a center concrete barrier as was originally proposed). To be fair, the segment from MN-101 to I-494 seems to be by far the furthest along of the three work zones, so maybe that segment is still scheduled to be done by 2021.
Highlights from the Bonding Bill that just passed the House and Senate and the governor promises to sign: (project dollars in thousands):
$75,000: Undesignated Local Road Improvement Fund Grants
$1500: Converting the half-interchange at MN 610 and East River Road to full access
$8400: Ferry Street and US 10 Interchange Reconstruction. There is an upcoming project to replace the Rum River bridge, additional funding was sought to rebuild the badly over capacity interchange and build a Ferry Street railroad overpass, which also causes congestion, divides the community, and was the site of several fatalities
$1500 Interchange at MN 65 and 109th Street. This was the third busiest at-grade intersection in the state when I wrote a streets.mn article back in 2015
$4000 Narrow Diffley Road from five lanes to two and build two roundabouts in front of the middle school (just east of the school is the current transition from five lanes to three
$6500 Reconstructing the Douglas Drive and MN 55 interesection to include a roundabout on the frontage road
$13,000 A county owned extension of MN 610 east to CSAH 30
$1000: Extend CSAH 15 / Morninside Ave in Glencoe to reroute through traffic away from a residential area.
$1500 Convert the County J and I-35E to full access and related work including a bicycle facility on County J. The existing interchange is over-capacity, as an interim measure a temporary signal was installed on the northbound ramp to keep traffic from backing up onto the freeway
$6000: The Richield 77th Street (for now) underpass under MN 77
$5500: Various local roads in Sartell
$14,000 Sibley CSAH 6 reconstruction including raising the road out of the 50 year flood plan and adding bicycle lanes.
$5269 The MN 13 and Dakota / Yosemite interchange in Savage
$2000 The Zimmerman US 169 interchange. An interchange was recommended here as far back as the early 2000s but is larger in scope than the typical "replace a small town signal with an interchange" due to relocating the mainline to the east and large property takeings.
$3000 Reconstruct Jefferson Drive in Zumbrota, still with the 1930s concrete pavement from it's days as US 52
$30,000 Undesignated local bridges
$52,000 Replace the Third / Kellogg Bridge in St Paul, despite being 1980s vintage it has severe structural issues
$2682 Highway 65 flood mitigation in Albert Lea
$8000 A reconstruction of a section of US 8 in Chisago County from I-35 to Karmel Ave, to include bicycle trails. This bumps up a planned resurfacing to a full reconstruction
$1800 Henderson Flood Mitigation on Highway 93. Regularly the routes south, east, and north of downtown flood, leaving the sole access from the west. Projects wre studied before but did not advance because improving none of the three accesses had a benefit / cost greater than 1. Of those raising 93 was the most "cost effective".
$6000 new overpass at 7th Street and new interchange at CSAH 104 on US 14 east of Rochester. These are the first at-grade intersections west of Rochester and are safety and operational concerns.
$3000 to the interchange at MN 36 and Manning Ave to begin construction next year
$3000 Railroad grade separation at CSAH 24 in International Falls
$10,000 Railroad grade separation at Sturgeon Lake road in Red Wing
$4090 City of Anandale local street and utility work to be done at the same time as an upcoming project on MN 24 and MN 55
$20,500 Streets and Utilities for an industrial park in Becker.
$84,000 undesignated trunk highway construction
$110,000 undesignated trunk highway railroad grade separations
$25,000 trunk high project development
$23,000 flood mitigation for projects that are undesignated but must be in Sibley and LeSueur Counties
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 15, 2020, 09:35:55 PM
$8400: Ferry Street and US 10 Interchange Reconstruction. There is an upcoming project to replace the Rum River bridge, additional funding was sought to rebuild the badly over capacity interchange and build a Ferry Street railroad overpass, which also causes congestion, divides the community, and was the site of several fatalities
Yeah, that segment of original Anoka bypass that remains between Main St and the railroad tracks east of 7th Ave is a death trap. No shoulders, poor sightlines, minimal acceleration lanes.
Quote$1500: Converting the half-interchange at MN 610 and East River Road to full access
The quantity here looks more like "study money" than anything concrete (pun intended). But I question the location given the close proximity and impact to both the Coon Rapids Blvd ramps and the WB on-ramp from the very large Foley Blvd Park-and-Ride.
Quote$1500 Interchange at MN 65 and 109th Street. This was the third busiest at-grade intersection in the state when I wrote a streets.mn article back in 2015
As with above, the dollar amount looks more like "study money". Could be for a follow up to the existing corridor study (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy65hamlake-slp/index.html) mentioned upthread.
(https://i.imgur.com/gsloa9p.png)
Apparently MnDOT said "No" to Coon Rapids several times before relenting.
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 18, 2020, 09:21:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gsloa9p.png)
Apparently MnDOT said "No" to Coon Rapids several times before relenting.
Are the existing 610 bridges over E River Rd and the railroad tracks wide enough to accommodate that extra lane or will they have to be rebuilt as well?
Monte: where did you find that graphic?
Quote from: EpicRoadwaysAre the existing 610 bridges over E River Rd and the railroad tracks wide enough to accommodate that extra lane or will they have to be rebuilt as well?
Probably don't need to be rebuilt but will instead be widened. Especially the westbound bridge as it looks like the ramp taper begins on the bridge.
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 18, 2020, 09:21:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gsloa9p.png)
Apparently MnDOT said "No" to Coon Rapids several times before relenting.
Why did MnDOT say no? The cost? I see the removal of another at-grade rail crossing along with better access to that area.
Quote from: froggie on October 18, 2020, 09:34:12 PM
Monte: where did you find that graphic?
It looks like he got it
here (https://www.coonrapidsmn.gov/1178/Trunk-Highway-610-Additional-Access).
I read on MNDOT's website about new concrete barriers going in on US 12 east of Maple Plain, along with a new roundabout in Independence, among other safety upgrades along US 12 in western Hennepin County. (Link here: https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy12-orono-independence/index.html)
Page said 2021 and 2022 - has there been any prep work yet along this section? Also, I was surprised to see nothing mentioned about four-laning. I guess MNDOT thinks there's no room to widen the road along that stretch. Your thoughts?
The ship sailed on four-laning when Maple Plain and Independence couldn't agree on a bypass route. There certainly isn't funding for it today.
This one passed under my nose, the new Beaudette/Rainy River international bridge is open.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d2/projects/baudette-bridge/index.html
Quote from: rte66man on October 19, 2020, 01:40:34 PM
Why did MnDOT say no? The cost? I see the removal of another at-grade rail crossing along with better access to that area.
They did not say no to the design Monte posted...they said no to the originally preferred design, dated 2011. THAT design had the full interchange at Coon Rapids Blvd, not East River Rd. My guess is they (and the Met Council too, which is the regional MPO) said no because it was too close to the MN 47 ramps.
Quote from: froggie on October 25, 2020, 11:42:33 PM
Quote from: rte66man on October 19, 2020, 01:40:34 PM
Why did MnDOT say no? The cost? I see the removal of another at-grade rail crossing along with better access to that area.
They did not say no to the design Monte posted...they said no to the originally preferred design, dated 2011. THAT design had the full interchange at Coon Rapids Blvd, not East River Rd. My guess is they (and the Met Council too, which is the regional MPO) said no because it was too close to the MN 47 ramps.
Gotcha. Will go back and take a look at the 2011 design. Any design that includes the removal of an at-grade crossing of a major Class 1 railroad gets my vote.
I really don't like what they did with the interchange rebuild at 694 and Rice St. It's similar to the nearby rebuild of the 36/Rice interchange with the awkward offset SPUI, but with roundabouts in this layout. There's just too much going on in too small a space.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 31, 2020, 02:38:13 AM
I really dont like what they did with the interchange rebuild at 694 and Rice St. Its similar to the nearby rebuild of the 36/Rice interchange with the awkward offset SPUI, but with roundabouts in this layout. Theres just too much going on in too small a space.
Minnesota never thinks things through
I-94 Clearwater to Fish Lake road work photos
https://www.northstarhighways.com/?page_id=590
Several road projects are wrapping up this week:
The big one, for those of us who fly a lot, is that MN-5 is fully reopening today between 55/62 and I-494. When I go out of town, I normally park at Park and Fly, near 494 and 34th street, and the MN-5 construction has added close to ten minutes to my trip between Park and Fly and MSP airport.
The ramp from 46th Street to NB 35W also reopens today, 9 months ahead of schedule.
The SB 35W to WB 494 ramp reopened on Wednesday.
Finally, Ayd Mill Road reopens at 7 AM tomorrow. An open house will be held at 9 AM to celebrate.
Here's a link to more information about the reopenings:
https://www.startribune.com/hwy-5-near-msp-airport-key-ramp-on-i-35w-in-minneapolis-to-open-friday/572984362/?refresh=true
It's not strictly road related, but construction began on Monday on a bicycle and pedestrian overpass of the BNSF tracks in St Louis Park. The overpass runs from where Edgewood Road dead ends at the BNSF tracks south of Cedar Lake Road, to Peter Hobart Elementary School south of the tracks, with a connection to Dakota Ave. The overpass will enable people who live north of the tracks to walk or bike to the future light rail station at Wooddale Avenue south of Highway 7.
The temporary express/local on 94 EB between 101 and 494/694 was removed overnight and it's back to normal configuration. I wonder if they'll go back to that for westbound when they rebuild that direction next year,
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 13, 2020, 01:51:49 PM
The temporary express/local on 94 EB between 101 and 494/694 was removed overnight and it's back to normal configuration. I wonder if they'll go back to that for westbound when they rebuild that direction next year,
If they do, they need to add some temporary lighting to the lane shifts/ splits at each end. The shifts for the EB "local lanes" in the vicinity of the MN-101 interchange were especially treacherous in the dark.
The remaining 55 MPH section of MN 100 between 394 and 494 was raised to 60. I expected that to happen eventually once the rebuild through St. Louis Park was done, but it took a couple years.
Also noticed today the work zone 60s on 94 are done for the winter and it's back to 70.
As always, sorry if this has been asked before. Does anyone have any idea why the signage for Stearns and Benton Counties have been replaced on MN 23 in St Cloud with signs that say "Granite City Crossing" ? (This is co-signed on both ends of the bridge with the Mississippi River.) The change is visible on Google Maps between 2012 and 2015, but not sure when in that range they were changed. I don't know of any other instance of a Minnesota County Line on a major highway not indicating the change of county like this anymore. Plus, I'll admit that the border of the Granite City Crossing signs look thin enough for the signs to have been made by a road geek just to see if someone notices (I did), or more likely just made "not to spec" by a city/county/contractor instead of MnDOT. Thoughts?
Quote from: MNtoOC on November 25, 2020, 05:57:39 PM
As always, sorry if this has been asked before. Does anyone have any idea why the signage for Stearns and Benton Counties have been replaced on MN 23 in St Cloud with signs that say "Granite City Crossing" ? (This is co-signed on both ends of the bridge with the Mississippi River.) The change is visible on Google Maps between 2012 and 2015, but not sure when in that range they were changed. I don't know of any other instance of a Minnesota County Line on a major highway not indicating the change of county like this anymore. Plus, I'll admit that the border of the Granite City Crossing signs look thin enough for the signs to have been made by a road geek just to see if someone notices (I did), or more likely just made "not to spec" by a city/county/contractor instead of MnDOT. Thoughts?
That must be a city of St Cloud install. They aren't (https://goo.gl/maps/sHBpnvknURbkcPyu6)exactly (https://goo.gl/maps/xnNA95Q7uoqoRJ7f7)known (https://goo.gl/maps/Wned7Gs1zdhEXJMTA)for having the prettiest signage. Also, for the record, I've lived in the area most of my life and never once heard that bridge called the Granite City Crossing in conversation. Usually when referring to the bridge you'll just hear people say "23 across the river" or "the 23 bridge." Sometimes someone will even drop a reference to the old DeSoto bridge. Heck, if I weren't a roadgeek
I probably wouldn't know that bridge had a name. Maybe that's why the sign is there :sombrero:
Granite City Crossing as a name didn't exist until the bridge replaced the old DeSoto Bridge in 2009. The St. Cloud City Council voted that year on the name change.
At least at the east end of the bridge there's immediately a sign for a left turn to the Benton County fairgrounds. Westbound no such luck though.
Minnesota Standard Signs.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/signsmanual/2020/standardsignsummary.pdf
Of note they've developed designs for all of the 161.14 routes, including none that will ever be signed again because they're politically incorrect and/or no one is still alive that wants to pay for them. And most of the "Dr. Marvin Monroe Memorial Highway" signs have changed from green to brown.
Quote from: Mdcastle on November 26, 2020, 11:29:52 AM
Minnesota Standard Signs.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/signsmanual/2020/standardsignsummary.pdf
Of note they've developed designs for all of the 161.14 routes, including none that will ever be signed again because they're politically incorrect and/or no one is still alive that wants to pay for them. And most of the "Dr. Marvin Monroe Memorial Highway" signs have changed from green to brown.
My favorites:
M1-4M – white/green US-Bus shields
M1-5Ma – white/green SR-Bus shield
R12-X3a – 'VEHICLES MUST NOT MEET ON BRIDGE' (?)
I'm still surprised that those Benton and Sherburne county signs were allowed to have just been removed in St Cloud, but I guess if MnDOT doesn't care and no one complains...
I hadn't seen the guide for all the signs before, so I looked for a few of the M series signs out of curiosity. I happened to pick out M1-X326 as it should be easy to find in Street View. In doing so, I was amused to see that while the guide clearly shows "Ruby L. Hughes Blvd" in the image (with Blvd in smaller script), the actual 2 signs in place both feature "Ruby Hughes Blvd" all in the same size (and sans the middle initial). I wonder if the signs are even actually 84 x 12 or not. Perhaps they were replaced at some time.
Quote from: Mdcastle on November 26, 2020, 11:29:52 AM
Minnesota Standard Signs.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficeng/publ/signsmanual/2020/standardsignsummary.pdf
Of note they've developed designs for all of the 161.14 routes, including none that will ever be signed again because they're politically incorrect and/or no one is still alive that wants to pay for them. And most of the "Dr. Marvin Monroe Memorial Highway" signs have changed from green to brown.
I noticed both in the guide and in the field the Lake Superior Circle Tour signs in Minnesota are now brown instead of the green used by every other Great Lakes entity and previously used by Minnesota (there might be an old green sign or two still left on MN 61; from my experience MN signs their circle tour by far the most poorly of any of the states/provinces).
As part of the 494/694 Woodbury interchange improvements MnDOT has changed the control city for I-94 East to Eau Claire when approaching on 494/694. On 94 itself approaching the interchange it's still Madison (at least for now); I didn't get to look beyond the interchange if they've slapped Eau Claire on the second line of any mileage signs east of 494/694.
MN 30's reroute around the Rochester airport is in official operation, though some signage is still missing especially leaving US 63 headed westbound. Curious if Olmsted County got anything in the swap, or if this is ultimately just the other half of the deal that took US 63 off Broadway Ave north of 52 in Rochester.
63 in Rochester puzzles me. It was originally ending in Lake City which explains the routing as opposed to routing it on MN 58. Now having moved it out of Rochester makes more sense to move 63 over to 58 yet they just made a strange routing around town.
US 63 never ended in Lake City. Its Minnesota predecessor..."US 59", did. But US 59 was short-lived...it appears that neither Iowa nor Wisconsin were interested in that route number, but they did accept 63. But by the time US 63 was officially extended into Minnesota, it was continued across the river into Wisconsin.
I wouldn't call the Rochester routing strange. It's effectively a Rochester bypass for 63. Furthermore, it's a combination of Rochester wanting more control over Broadway plus 5 miles less of route for MnDOT to have to maintain. Can't eliminate a route entirely between Rochester and Lake City because it's Constitutional Route.
Moving 63 to 58 also means you're swapping one route concurrency (US 61/63) with an even longer concurrency (US 52/63...26 miles versus 15 miles for 61/63).
Moving 63 to 58 also means you're swapping one route concurrency (US 61/63) with an even longer concurrency (US 52/63...26 miles versus 15 miles for 61/63).
[/quote]
Nine miles of the 52/63 concurrency would remain regardless of whether US 63 follows US 52 north of 75th Street or not. Therefore continuing 63 along 52 toward Zumbrota would only add ~15 miles to it, so it would be a wash compared to the US 61/63 concurrency.
As froggie stated, Rochester-Lake City has to stay a state highway, so is it really worth it to swap 63 and 58 to correct a minor corridor inefficiency?
Rochester-Red Wing via Zumbrota is about 10 minutes shorter than going to Lake City, but a good chunk of that difference today can be attributed to US 52 being almost all freeway between Rochester and Zumbrota. It was probably only a couple minutes back in 1930.
Why they didn't put 63 on 58 at day one could be a curiosity in itself, regardless.
^ Which, IMO, is because 63 directly replaced "US 59", which was MN 59 prior to that. And that version of 59 went to Lake City.
Today's Star Tribune says MnDoT has opened an underpass for deer on Highway 14 near Claremont, as part of the Highway 14 widening. Here's the link:
https://www.startribune.com/roadkill-remedy-mndot-tunnel-now-offers-deer-passage-under-highway/573382971/
MnDoT will be using landscaping to funnel deer into the tunnel. However, MnDoT doesn't have unrealistic expectations about the tunnel's ability to reduce car / deer interactions on 14 in the short term; they say it will take time for deer to learn where the tunnel is, and teach their children to use it.
So, currently the situation in the metro is that most scheduled MnDOT money goes to maintenance rather than improvement projects; those are done by federal grants doled out by the Met Council based on applications by local agencies who have to put some of their own money. Basically the applicants are scored, and they start funding the top scoring applications until the run out of money. They also program fund more projects than money (over-programming) I think so they have projects to spend money on if higher up projects are cancelled or downscaled.
The 2020 round is under discussion now. After discussing a number of ways to award projects, they're discussing A) The merits of doing it the traditional way vs trying to fund as many projects as possible, and B) Whether to manipulate things so Scott County gets a project.
For A), MnDOT is concerned about being overwhelmed with management with the "more projects" scenario, because the management burden for projects doesn't scale down project size. For B) it's been noted that while Scott County wouldn't get a project in a traditional scenario, for this round Scott County only bothered to submit five requests, and over the past few funding cycles they have gotten projects in proportion to their population. If they want to give Scott County a project (which would be the 169 / 282 interchange), they could keep going down the list fully funding projects, which would result in only one added due to over programming bike/ped project. (Downtown Chaska)) Or they could partially fund two larger road projects (this one and a substantial expansion of 41 / Engler in Chaska), resulting in more base and overprogrammed bike/ped projects but potentially causing the two road projects to be undeliverable due to funding.
https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetings/Committees/Transportation-Advisory-Board-TAB/2020/November-18,-2020/Info-2-Item-Reg-Sol-FundingScenarios.aspx
Major Projects- Strategic Capacity Improvements Category: All Scenarios, max $10 Million
252 / Brookdale Drive Interchange ($10 Million)
65 / 99th Interchange ($10 Million)
US 10 / Ramsey Blvd Interchange ($10 Million)
Additional Major Projects: Historical Process Scenarios Only
36 / Lake Elmo Ave Interchange ($10 Million)
5 in the arboretum area improvements ($10 Million)
Additional Major Projects: Historical Process and "Give Scott a Project"
41 / Engler intersection expansion [OP] ($7 Million- partial or $9.05 Million Full)
169 / 282 interchange [OP] ($7 million- partial, $10 Million Full)
Roadway Reconstruction and Modernization- Max $7 Million
Franklin, Lowry, and Robert Street get the max in all scenarios. Under "More Projects", The 169 / Brookdale interchange and a section of Cliff Road in Eagan [OP] also get the max.
Bridges: A Rockford Road Bridge over 169 gets $6.888 and the Third Street Viaduct in St. Paul get $7 million in all scenarios.
I thought they were planning to build it on the new US 14 alignment (which will be located well to the south of the existing route).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 02, 2020, 11:19:59 AM
As froggie stated, Rochester-Lake City has to stay a state highway, so is it really worth it to swap 63 and 58 to correct a minor corridor inefficiency?
Rochester-Red Wing via Zumbrota is about 10 minutes shorter than going to Lake City, but a good chunk of that difference today can be attributed to US 52 being almost all freeway between Rochester and Zumbrota. It was probably only a couple minutes back in 1930.
Why they didn't put 63 on 58 at day one could be a curiosity in itself, regardless.
One other thing to keep in mind now is that when the US 63 Bridge to Wisconsin was rebuilt, they realigned US 63 to go directly to US 61 rather than go to MN 58 first. Frankly, I wonder if MNDOT had ever thought about swapping numbers. History doesn't have to stay the same forever.
I am now getting caught up on MnDOT construction contracts from late 2019 to the present, having fallen behind when the agency stopped uploading the proposal/plan PDFs to its FTP server at the start of this year. (They are available through the EDMS--at one time called eDIGS, now rebranded eDocs (https://edocs-public.dot.state.mn.us/edocs_public/DMResultSet/ContentSearch)--but I didn't have a script to scrape them until yesterday.) I'm currently going through 4895 pages of signing, traffic control, and signal plans, and have a couple of questions:
* For ground-mounted small signs, has MnDOT abandoned U-channel with diagonal wind bracing in favor of square-tube posts on fin bases? The standard plan sheet showing diagonal bracing seems to have disappeared in favor of new ones dealing with square tubes.
* How extensively does MnDOT use secret routes? Per the construction plans for SP 3412-73, US 71 Business in Willmar appears to be on the system as TH 994A.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 24, 2020, 01:38:53 PM
I am now getting caught up on MnDOT construction contracts from late 2019 to the present, having fallen behind when the agency stopped uploading the proposal/plan PDFs to its FTP server at the start of this year. (They are available through the EDMS--at one time called eDIGS, now rebranded eDocs (https://edocs-public.dot.state.mn.us/edocs_public/DMResultSet/ContentSearch)--but I didn't have a script to scrape them until yesterday.) I'm currently going through 4895 pages of signing, traffic control, and signal plans, and have a couple of questions:
* For ground-mounted small signs, has MnDOT abandoned U-channel with diagonal wind bracing in favor of square-tube posts on fin bases? The standard plan sheet showing diagonal bracing seems to have disappeared in favor of new ones dealing with square tubes.
* How extensively does MnDOT use secret routes? Per the construction plans for SP 3412-73, US 71 Business in Willmar appears to be on the system as TH 994A.
Does MnDOT still charge to view new construction plans that are put to bid?
Quote from: on_wisconsin on December 24, 2020, 02:49:15 PMDoes MnDOT still charge to view new construction plans that are put to bid?
Yes. (Sigh.) They used QuestCDN when they started putting plans on the Web in 2007, then moved to Franz Reprographics, and are now back with QuestCDN again. There used to be ways to get usable PDFs without paying and also without contravening computer misuse laws, but the planroom providers have closed them down by sending only low-resolution PNG renderings of each plan or proposal page to your browser unless you are logged in with a username and password connected to a paying account.
However, it is a lot easier to get plans from MnDOT after contract award. In the old days there was immediate availability after award on the FTP server and EDMS just for the proposal book, but since 2018 or so this has extended to the plans as well. FTP is no longer used as a distribution channel, but the EDMS is pretty painless to work with. The PDFs you get are basically the same as those initially made available through the pay planrooms.
MnDOT has instructions on its website for searching for awarded projects in the EDMS (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/const/award/index.html) and also bid letting abstracts (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/bidlet/abstract.html) (useful for obtaining SP and contract numbers for projects in specific work categories, such as signing).
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 24, 2020, 01:38:53 PM
I am now getting caught up on MnDOT construction contracts from late 2019 to the present, having fallen behind when the agency stopped uploading the proposal/plan PDFs to its FTP server at the start of this year. (They are available through the EDMS--at one time called eDIGS, now rebranded eDocs (https://edocs-public.dot.state.mn.us/edocs_public/DMResultSet/ContentSearch)--but I didn't have a script to scrape them until yesterday.) I'm currently going through 4895 pages of signing, traffic control, and signal plans, and have a couple of questions:
* For ground-mounted small signs, has MnDOT abandoned U-channel with diagonal wind bracing in favor of square-tube posts on fin bases? The standard plan sheet showing diagonal bracing seems to have disappeared in favor of new ones dealing with square tubes.
They haven't fully abandoned the diagonal wind brace for new installs. It's a mix of the old practice and the new one described.
Quote
* How extensively does MnDOT use secret routes? Per the construction plans for SP 3412-73, US 71 Business in Willmar appears to be on the system as TH 994A.
Not that extensively, but there are two classes, 800-series and 900-series. 800-series routes are inventory such as the part of an interchange beyond where a marked route ends or turns onto the freeway. 900-series routes are things such as old alignments, stubs of former routes, and other turnbacks that haven't been fully completed which the state eventually plans to turn over. In this case, the route being referred to isn't actually Business 71/23, but former MN 294 (hence, the secret "994" designation - the latter two numbers of an 800/900 refer to the former route in question)
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 24, 2020, 01:38:53 PM
I am now getting caught up on MnDOT construction contracts from late 2019 to the present, having fallen behind when the agency stopped uploading the proposal/plan PDFs to its FTP server at the start of this year. (They are available through the EDMS--at one time called eDIGS, now rebranded eDocs (https://edocs-public.dot.state.mn.us/edocs_public/DMResultSet/ContentSearch)--but I didn't have a script to scrape them until yesterday.) I'm currently going through 4895 pages of signing, traffic control, and signal plans, and have a couple of questions:
* For ground-mounted small signs, has MnDOT abandoned U-channel with diagonal wind bracing in favor of square-tube posts on fin bases? The standard plan sheet showing diagonal bracing seems to have disappeared in favor of new ones dealing with square tubes.
* How extensively does MnDOT use secret routes? Per the construction plans for SP 3412-73, US 71 Business in Willmar appears to be on the system as TH 994A.
The sign posting change has been occurring not just on new installations. Many existing speed limit and route marker signs have had the dual post/diagonal bracing replaced with single posts in the last year.
Today's Star Tribune says the 3rd Avenue Bridge over the Mississippi in downtown Minneapolis will close next week for a two year rebuild. The bridge opened in 1918, and was last rebuilt in 1979. This rebuild will help restore it closer to its original appearance.
The Star Tribune also says MnDoT was given a merit award by the American Institute of Steel Construction for the rebuild of the bridge over the Mississippi in Winona.
Here's a link to both news items:
https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-3rd-avenue-bridge-to-close-for-nearly-two-years/573486932/
Why does MnDOT sometimes discontinue control sections and sometimes reassign them? It seems for most early interstates the prior US numbered route control segment was discontinued, but in some cases (such as the realignment of US-169 to the Shakopee bypass, in which control segment 7005 which previously was MN TH 101 was just realigned to the new bypass as TH 169) the control segment is realigned to another highway with a new number?
With the TAB grants the "Historical Process- Give Scott A Project- Partial Funding" scenario has been decided on. So the current recommendation going to the full council for approval:
Major Projects- Strategic Capacity Improvements (Max $10 Million)
252 / Brookdale Drive Interchange ($10 Million)
65 / 99th Interchange ($10 Million)
US 10 / Ramsey Blvd Interchange ($10 Million)
36 / Lake Elmo Ave Interchange ($10 Million)
5 in the arboretum area improvements ($10 Million)
41 / Engler intersection expansion [OverProgram] ($7 Millon)
169 / 282 interchange [OverProgam] ($7 million)
Roadway Reconstruction and Modernization- (Max $7 Million)
Franklin Ave ($7 Million)
Robert Street ($7 Million)
Lowry Ave ($7 Million)
Bridges: (Max $7 Million)
Rockford Road over US 169 ($6.88 Million)
Third Street Viaduct ($7 Million)
Eventually I think it would be a good idea to reconfigure those US 169 full cloverleaves with Rockford and Bass Lake to SPUI/DDI. I don't know if that's something MnDOT has considered, but I hope rebuilding the Rockford bridge doesn't preclude that.
Rockford Road is being reconfigured to a folded diamond.
^ Source?
Quote from: Mdcastle on January 05, 2021, 08:24:12 PM
With the TAB grants the "Historical Process- Give Scott A Project- Partial Funding" scenario has been decided on. So the current recommendation going to the full council for approval:
Major Projects- Strategic Capacity Improvements (Max $10 Million)
252 / Brookdale Drive Interchange ($10 Million)
65 / 99th Interchange ($10 Million)
US 10 / Ramsey Blvd Interchange ($10 Million)
36 / Lake Elmo Ave Interchange ($10 Million)
5 in the arboretum area improvements ($10 Million)
41 / Engler intersection expansion [OverProgram] ($7 Millon)
169 / 282 interchange [OverProgam] ($7 million)
Roadway Reconstruction and Modernization- (Max $7 Million)
Franklin Ave ($7 Million)
Robert Street ($7 Million)
Lowry Ave ($7 Million)
Bridges: (Max $7 Million)
Rockford Road over US 169 ($6.88 Million)
Third Street Viaduct ($7 Million)
I only see news for a Manning avenue and 36 interchange. Are they doing Lake Elmo too?
(https://i.imgur.com/eMq7mOR.png)
Thanks for the graphic, but what's the source?
The TAB grant application
Quote from: Mdcastle on January 07, 2021, 07:31:24 PM
The TAB grant application
Took a bit but I did find it (http://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Planning-2/Transportation-Funding/Regional-Solicitation-NEW.aspx).
Quote from: Trademark on January 06, 2021, 09:16:24 PM
I only see news for a Manning avenue and 36 interchange. Are they doing Lake Elmo too?
It indeed looks like they're trying to (https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Planning-2/Transportation-Funding/Regional-Solicitation-NEW/Results-of-Solicitations/2018-Applications-(1)/ROADWAY-EXPANSION/14324_WashCoCsah17Th36Int.aspx).
What's interesting is they're proposing a 3/4 interchange...no direct WB off-ramp. That traffic will use the Manning Ave off-ramp and the frontage road. Also interesting is that all 3 ramps proposed at Lake Elmo Ave go to the frontage roads and not Lake Elmo Ave directly.
Also worth noting that the project will include a new south frontage road and close the intersection at 36/Keats Ave. This plus the Manning interchange will have the effect of creating a de-facto freeway section on 36 from west of Keats to the Norell/Washington signal.
The Blatnik Bridge, which takes I-535 between Duluth and Superior, is nearing the end of its life and MnDoT is beginning to evaluate replacement options. Construction of the replacement won't happen until at least 2028. Here's a link to more information.
https://www.startribune.com/blatnik-bridge-between-duluth-and-superior-headed-toward-retirement-replacement/600011499/
In non-road related news, the light rail line between Minneapolis and Eden Prairie has fallen behind schedule due to poor soil conditions in the area between Cedar Lake and Lake of the Isles. It was scheduled to open in the fall of 2023; no new opening date has been announced.
https://www.startribune.com/opening-of-southwest-light-rail-delayed-due-to-construction-challenges/600010482/
I always thought it would have made more sense for the light rail line to enter Uptown via the Greenway, then go to downtown Minneapolis via Hennepin Avenue or Lyndale. The population density in Uptown is much higher than in the area west of Lake of the Isles where the line will be routed, and light rail would have boosted Uptown's economy, something that was needed a few years ago and now is critical because many businesses in Uptown have closed over the last year due to Covid and / or damage from last summer's unrest,
Much of the Minneapolis urbanist community supported routing it through Uptown, though the only option approved for getting from Uptown to Downtown was via Nicollet. IIRC, Lyndale and Hennepin were considered but a surface routing was deemed to take too much space from Hennepin and whether surface or tunnel construction would have had a huge negative impact on Hennepin. There was also the issue of getting it through the "Bottleneck" (where Hennepin and Lyndale converge with 94 underneath). Another downside of the approved Nicollet routing is that it wouldn't allow interlining with the existing lines.
Can't imagine it would be very attractive to people commuting from the western suburbs if it took a loooong, sloooow detour from Uptown and then involved a transfer if you're not going to central or western downtown.
As for the Blatnik Bridge, would be a shame to put in yet another girder bridge. Maybe we can get the first cable-stayed bridge in the region?
The Ohio Turnpike has announced that Minnesota will be joining E-ZPass in August.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2021, 09:13:05 PM
Eventually I think it would be a good idea to reconfigure those US 169 full cloverleaves with Rockford and Bass Lake to SPUI/DDI. I dont know if thats something MnDOT has considered, but I hope rebuilding the Rockford bridge doesnt preclude that.
Obviously you know this, but 169 started as county road 18 and was upgraded to a freeway by the county so it's probably never been up to standard.
Quote from: Mdcastle on January 17, 2021, 12:42:11 PM
As for the Blatnik Bridge, would be a shame to put in yet another girder bridge. Maybe we can get the first cable-stayed bridge in the region?
At best, we'll probably get another cable-arch bridge like the Bong.
It is an opportunity to do something different on the Superior end of 535, though. Nothing like having to slow down for a loop ramp after coming down a long, downhill and then cross the other direction of traffic at-grade. Since a new bridge will have to be shifted east or west from the existing bridge, it would be a great time to come up with something better.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 21, 2021, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on January 17, 2021, 12:42:11 PM
As for the Blatnik Bridge, would be a shame to put in yet another girder bridge. Maybe we can get the first cable-stayed bridge in the region?
At best, we'll probably get another cable-arch bridge like the Bong.
It is an opportunity to do something different on the Superior end of 535, though. Nothing like having to slow down for a loop ramp after coming down a long, downhill and then cross the other direction of traffic at-grade. Since a new bridge will have to be shifted east or west from the existing bridge, it would be a great time to come up with something better.
This would probably cost more money than WISDOT has or wants to put into this, but realign 535 into 53 as the through movement and have Hammond Avenue meet Tower Avenue at surface level. Superior has been banging its head into walls for 40 years regarding Hammond between the end of 535 and the intersection with US 2/Belknap St.
(proactively says hi to Rothman before he enters this conversation)
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on January 19, 2021, 12:02:52 PM
The Ohio Turnpike has announced that Minnesota will be joining E-ZPass in August.
This is what will finally make me get a pass...
A much needed project to clean up MN 7 between 494 and Shorewood for 2021.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy7minnetonka-shorewood/index.html?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 21, 2021, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 21, 2021, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on January 17, 2021, 12:42:11 PM
As for the Blatnik Bridge, would be a shame to put in yet another girder bridge. Maybe we can get the first cable-stayed bridge in the region?
At best, we'll probably get another cable-arch bridge like the Bong.
It is an opportunity to do something different on the Superior end of 535, though. Nothing like having to slow down for a loop ramp after coming down a long, downhill and then cross the other direction of traffic at-grade. Since a new bridge will have to be shifted east or west from the existing bridge, it would be a great time to come up with something better.
This would probably cost more money than WISDOT has or wants to put into this, but realign 535 into 53 as the through movement and have Hammond Avenue meet Tower Avenue at surface level. Superior has been banging its head into walls for 40 years regarding Hammond between the end of 535 and the intersection with US 2/Belknap St.
(proactively says hi to Rothman before he enters this conversation)
To me building a new signature bridge next to the current bridge and then demoing the existing one is a no-brainer. I also very much like the idea of reconfiguring the Superior end of the bridge to better handle its traffic into and out of the downtown area, in addition to a better US 53 continuation, with a potential southeastward extension of I-535 as part of that mix.
One thought in that article that also intrigued me is an idea to include a pedestrian/bicycle pathway on the new bridge, something that the current crossing lacks. There is USBR activity in that area and a new Blatnik Bridge would be an ideal way for that all to cross between the cities.
Mike
When I lived in Superior, there were no traffic issues getting on or off the Blatnik. The only annoyance was the low, highly enforced speed limit heading south on WI 35 by the airport and Menards.
Wait, southward extension of I-535? Why? That would do more harm than good (I take it you mean following US 2 along the shore?). Lots of community activities out that way.
Quote from: Rothman on January 22, 2021, 11:38:51 PM
Wait, southward extension of I-535? Why? That would do more harm than good (I take it you mean following US 2 along the shore?). Lots of community activities out that way.
Probably to link up with the 53 expressway. Not needed, but at the same time I wouldn't be opposed to cleaning up some of the intersection spacing in East End along 2nd Street where sight lines can be touch and go.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 22, 2021, 01:16:27 PM
A much needed project to clean up MN 7 between 494 and Shorewood for 2021.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy7minnetonka-shorewood/index.html?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
What was of even more interest on that webpage is the link for the four-lane expansion of US 212 between Cologne and Chaska with construction intending to start in Fall 2021. This is certainly one of the busiest rural two-lane highways in Minnesota. And overdue for expansion.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 22, 2021, 11:50:33 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 22, 2021, 11:38:51 PM
Wait, southward extension of I-535? Why? That would do more harm than good (I take it you mean following US 2 along the shore?). Lots of community activities out that way.
Probably to link up with the 53 expressway. Not needed, but at the same time I wouldn't be opposed to cleaning up some of the intersection spacing in East End along 2nd Street where sight lines can be touch and go.
If you relocate where the I-535 bridge touches down in Superior to along the rail lines west of downtown, you can bring it straight south and around the south end of Bong Airport without having to touch very many residences.
This would be pure fantasy land; it's unlikely in the next 50 years that US-2/53 would ever become so congested that it would be necessary.
Quote from: JREwing78 on January 23, 2021, 08:11:56 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 22, 2021, 11:50:33 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 22, 2021, 11:38:51 PM
Wait, southward extension of I-535? Why? That would do more harm than good (I take it you mean following US 2 along the shore?). Lots of community activities out that way.
Probably to link up with the 53 expressway. Not needed, but at the same time I wouldn't be opposed to cleaning up some of the intersection spacing in East End along 2nd Street where sight lines can be touch and go.
If you relocate where the I-535 bridge touches down in Superior to along the rail lines west of downtown, you can bring it straight south and around the south end of Bong Airport without having to touch very many residences.
This would be pure fantasy land; it's unlikely in the next 50 years that US-2/53 would ever become so congested that it would be necessary.
Through Billings Park? That's the affluent part of Superior. So, no. Also, west of Superior is served by the Bong.
This idea of extending I-535 just seems like it's being promoted just because we like highways rather than out of some actual need.
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2021, 09:46:21 AM
This idea of extending I-535 just seems like it's being promoted just because we like highways rather than out of some actual need.
That's what's gonna happen when you get a niche/focus board like this, though. It's just like MN 61 across the bay where it just irks some people that there's a gap in a freeway/expressway and they will want to see it filled to make it look neat rather than out of need.
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2021, 09:46:21 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on January 23, 2021, 08:11:56 AM
If you relocate where the I-535 bridge touches down in Superior to along the rail lines west of downtown, you can bring it straight south and around the south end of Bong Airport without having to touch very many residences.
Through Billings Park? That's the affluent part of Superior. So, no.
No, you'd follow the east edge of the railroad yard just west of downtown Superior. It's a nearly unobstructed path to the Douglas County Fairgrounds, especially if one shifts the railroad west one freeway-width. Nothing in the way to land the bridge on the Wisconsin side east of western grain elevator cluster.
Moot point as there's no money for it and the traffic isn't really there and WisDOT abandoned any ideas for filling that freeway gap in Superior decades ago. But the point is, such an idea would miss the nice neighborhood by a wide margin.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 25, 2021, 05:29:46 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2021, 09:46:21 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on January 23, 2021, 08:11:56 AM
If you relocate where the I-535 bridge touches down in Superior to along the rail lines west of downtown, you can bring it straight south and around the south end of Bong Airport without having to touch very many residences.
Through Billings Park? That's the affluent part of Superior. So, no.
No, you'd follow the east edge of the railroad yard just west of downtown Superior. It's a nearly unobstructed path to the Douglas County Fairgrounds, especially if one shifts the railroad west one freeway-width. Nothing in the way to land the bridge on the Wisconsin side east of western grain elevator cluster.
Moot point as there's no money for it and the traffic isn't really there and WisDOT abandoned any ideas for filling that freeway gap in Superior decades ago. But the point is, such an idea would miss the nice neighborhood by a wide margin.
I don't think you could build it through there due to the terrain. It would be even more prohibitively expensive and perhaps impossible if the land is owned by the railroad if terrain isn't an issue.
Remember that you're talking about a city that handed over one out of three lots to the railroad to attract it there before Duluth. Although it has diminished over the year, the railroad still looms over Superior and would probably be a formidable interest to deal with.
Still not sure what the purpose of this idea is. Most traffic from Duluth terminates in Superior. There is nothing south of Superior except small lakes where Superiorites own their summer cabins.
Quote from: Rothman on January 25, 2021, 09:58:37 PM
I don't think you could build it through there due to the terrain. It would be even more prohibitively expensive and perhaps impossible if the land is owned by the railroad if terrain isn't an issue.
The land is pancake flat in Superior. All of the topography is on the Minnesota side of the Twin Ports. One needs to get miles south of the outskirts of Superior before encountering any terrain remotely as steep as Duluth.
One look at some aerial photos of the area reveals how much space there is to work with through the rail yards that divide Billings Park from the rest of Superior. All of the tracks are to the west save for one off by it's lonesome near the east edge that really only serves as a bypass of the rail yard. Plenty of room to shift it over enough to fit in a four-lane freeway.
But as we've all discussed, it's not needed. My point here is if one
wanted to do it, such construction would be quite easy.
I suspect it may not be as easy as you make it. That close proximity to existing/former rail yards may mean contaminated soil.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 26, 2021, 09:46:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 25, 2021, 09:58:37 PM
I don't think you could build it through there due to the terrain. It would be even more prohibitively expensive and perhaps impossible if the land is owned by the railroad if terrain isn't an issue.
The land is pancake flat in Superior. All of the topography is on the Minnesota side of the Twin Ports. One needs to get miles south of the outskirts of Superior before encountering any terrain remotely as steep as Duluth.
One look at some aerial photos of the area reveals how much space there is to work with through the rail yards that divide Billings Park from the rest of Superior. All of the tracks are to the west save for one off by it's lonesome near the east edge that really only serves as a bypass of the rail yard. Plenty of room to shift it over enough to fit in a four-lane freeway.
But as we've all discussed, it's not needed. My point here is if one wanted to do it, such construction would be quite easy.
Flat, somewhat. But it's also swampy. Elevation isn't the only terrain obstacle. There's more than one reason the Belknap bridge goes over that empty space (which, in of itself would also be a major obstacle).
Quote from: froggie on January 26, 2021, 09:51:58 AM
I suspect it may not be as easy as you make it. That close proximity to existing/former rail yards may mean contaminated soil.
Remember the benzene spill which caused one of the largest inland evacuations in U.S. history...
I should note that the regolith underneath Superior is pure clay, which is why it was naturally swampy. But that clay also means very slow infiltration of contaminants. Meaning it's less dirt one has to dig up if some asshole spills/dumps poison.
That clay is what gives all the tributary streams on the Wisconsin side that reddish-brown color when it rains/snow melts.
I'm fighting the urge to go off on a tangent about the fascinating geologic history of the region. Don't want to bore everyone with jargon like "lacustrine sediment" and "differential isostatic rebound." :P
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2021, 09:58:26 AM
I should note that the regolith underneath Superior is pure clay, which is why it was naturally swampy. But that clay also means very slow infiltration of contaminants. Meaning it's less dirt one has to dig up if some asshole spills/dumps poison.
That clay is what gives all the tributary streams on the Wisconsin side that reddish-brown color when it rains/snow melts.
I'm fighting the urge to go off on a tangent about the fascinating geologic history of the region. Don't want to bore everyone with jargon like "lacustrine sediment" and "differential isostatic rebound." :P
That stuff is fascinating for me at least, hah.
Today's Star Tribune has an article about plans for new interchanges on US 10 at Sunfish Lake Boulevard and Ramsey Boulevard. Construction is planned for 2024.
Interchanges will be built next year at Thurston Ave and Fair Oaks Ave, so the Sunfish Lake and Ramsey interchanges will make US 10 a freeway from Elk River to Mounds View. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/plans-to-fix-hwy-10-in-ramsey-minn-take-shape/600025821/
I'm glad MnDoT has recognized that the Thurston and Fair Oaks interchanges will be making congestion worse elsewhere on US 10, and is building the Sunfish Lake and Ramsey interchanges to smooth out the traffic flow on US 10. However, the article says roundabouts are now planned in lieu of traffic lights at the on / off ramps of the Sunfish Lake and Ramsey interchanges; I'm not sure how well roundabouts will work......
Because Ramsey and Sunfish Lake are glorified T-intersections with minimal need for traffic to go to the south (just the Comfort Suites off Sunfish Lake and the Holiday station at Ramsey), the roundabouts make sense.
Wow, I really misunderstood at first. I thought they were talking about replacing the existing stoplight intersections with at-grade roundabouts. Now I love a good roundabout more than the average bear, but I was thinking BAD IDEA!. Then I saw the phrase 'grade-separated', and peace of mind was restored.
(In other news... When did the Burger King at Ramsey Blvd close down?)
Quote from: kphoger on February 23, 2021, 09:49:25 AM
Wow, I really misunderstood at first. I thought they were talking about replacing the existing stoplight intersections with at-grade roundabouts. Now I love a good roundabout more than the average bear, but I was thinking BAD IDEA!. Then I saw the phrase 'grade-separated', and peace of mind was restored.
I kind of had to rub my eyes at that a bit too and make sure it was the off-ramps being referred to.
Quote
(In other news... When did the Burger King at Ramsey Blvd close down?)
I think that happened in the late fall.
Should also clarify it won't be entirely freeway from Elk River to 35W, as there are a number of minor at-grade crossings between the last Ramsey interchange at Armstrong Blvd and the first Elk River stoplight at 171st Ave. Personally I really hate the crossing at 165th Ave in front of the Broadway Pizza on the edge of Elk River, and wouldn't be opposed to RIROing that.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 23, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Should also clarify it won't be entirely freeway from Elk River to 35W, as there are a number of minor at-grade crossings between the last Ramsey interchange at Armstrong Blvd and the first Elk River stoplight at 171st Ave.
Oh, I wouldn't expect a full freeway from Coon Rapids to Elk River. Well, maybe in my dreams...
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 23, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Personally I really hate the crossing at 165th Ave in front of the Broadway Pizza on the edge of Elk River, and wouldn't be opposed to RIROing that.
167th, you mean?
I haven't been west of Ramsey Blvd in ages, so I can't comment on those minor crossroads. What is it about that particular one? Heavy traffic usage, poor sight lines, poor queue storage, ...?
Quote from: kphoger on February 24, 2021, 09:07:44 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 23, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Should also clarify it won't be entirely freeway from Elk River to 35W, as there are a number of minor at-grade crossings between the last Ramsey interchange at Armstrong Blvd and the first Elk River stoplight at 171st Ave.
Oh, I wouldn't expect a full freeway from Coon Rapids to Elk River. Well, maybe in my dreams...
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 23, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Personally I really hate the crossing at 165th Ave in front of the Broadway Pizza on the edge of Elk River, and wouldn't be opposed to RIROing that.
167th, you mean?
I haven't been west of Ramsey Blvd in ages, so I can't comment on those minor crossroads. What is it about that particular one? Heavy traffic usage, poor sight lines, poor queue storage, ...?
I think freeway from Elk River to Coon Rapids (or whatever name the City of Coon Rapids is referred to in 5 - 10 years, if plans to rename the city become a reality) isn't unlikely.
Once the last two interchanges are built, speeds on the route will increase. It's inevitable that faster speeds will result in a really bad accident, where someone thinks they can safely make it through one of the minor at grade crossings, but fails to do so, with lethal consequences. Once that happens, MnDoT is likely to intervene and try to eliminate the rest of the at grade crossings.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on January 17, 2021, 04:08:59 AM
In non-road related news, the light rail line between Minneapolis and Eden Prairie has fallen behind schedule due to poor soil conditions in the area between Cedar Lake and Lake of the Isles. It was scheduled to open in the fall of 2023; no new opening date has been announced.
https://www.startribune.com/opening-of-southwest-light-rail-delayed-due-to-construction-challenges/600010482/
I always thought it would have made more sense for the light rail line to enter Uptown via the Greenway, then go to downtown Minneapolis via Hennepin Avenue or Lyndale. The population density in Uptown is much higher than in the area west of Lake of the Isles where the line will be routed, and light rail would have boosted Uptown's economy, something that was needed a few years ago and now is critical because many businesses in Uptown have closed over the last year due to Covid and / or damage from last summer's unrest,
It hasn't made the Star Tribune yet, but a community newspaper (the St Louis Park / Hopkins Sun Sailor) says the soil problems on the light rail line between Cedar Lake and Lake of the Isles could cause that stretch of the line to open YEARS, not months, behind schedule.
St Louis Park is pushing MnDoT to at least complete construction of the light rail line through St Louis Park on the original schedule, so St Louis Park can reopen local roads, and the Midtown Greenway Bike Trail, that have been closed for construction.
One of my concerns about light rail delays, with the associated additional construction expenses, is that if it costs significantly more to complete the light rail line, this could suck up money that could otherwise be used for road improvements in the Twin Cities and / or be the catalyst for a gas tax increase.
That money was likely earmarked for transit and can't be used for roads. A lot of people (which is almost always people bitching about transit that they can't/won't use) make the fatal assumption that all transportation money comes from one big pot to be divvied up among all the road, transit, and airport interests. These things have many sources independent of each other that don't cross over and can't be reallocated.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on February 24, 2021, 09:17:07 AM
I think freeway from Elk River to Coon Rapids (or whatever name the City of Coon Rapids is referred to in 5 - 10 years, if plans to rename the city become a reality) isn't unlikely.
Once the last two interchanges are built, speeds on the route will increase. It's inevitable that faster speeds will result in a really bad accident, where someone thinks they can safely make it through one of the minor at grade crossings, but fails to do so, with lethal consequences. Once that happens, MnDoT is likely to intervene and try to eliminate the rest of the at grade crossings.
It is very unlikely when you consider MnDOT's perpetual funding situation. Closing the remaining intersections would require frontage road construction, probably another interchange, and right-of-way. All of which costs more money than MnDOT currently has available. Now, if Elk River and/or Sherburne County want to ante up some funding, that would change the paradigm.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on February 24, 2021, 09:23:42 AM
One of my concerns about light rail delays, with the associated additional construction expenses, is that if it costs significantly more to complete the light rail line, this could suck up money that could otherwise be used for road improvements in the Twin Cities and / or be the catalyst for a gas tax increase.
Not the case on both counts. First is as The HighwayMan394 noted. Second, the gas tax in Minnesota is Constitutionally dedicated to roads.
Quote from: kphoger on February 24, 2021, 09:07:44 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 23, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Should also clarify it won't be entirely freeway from Elk River to 35W, as there are a number of minor at-grade crossings between the last Ramsey interchange at Armstrong Blvd and the first Elk River stoplight at 171st Ave.
Oh, I wouldn't expect a full freeway from Coon Rapids to Elk River. Well, maybe in my dreams...
Sorry, that was meant for Papa since he was the one who posted that.
Quote from: kphoger on February 24, 2021, 09:07:44 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 23, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Personally I really hate the crossing at 165th Ave in front of the Broadway Pizza on the edge of Elk River, and wouldn't be opposed to RIROing that.
167th, you mean?
I haven't been west of Ramsey Blvd in ages, so I can't comment on those minor crossroads. What is it about that particular one? Heavy traffic usage, poor sight lines, poor queue storage, ...?
Yeah, the 167th intersection. 165th is the old recycling center intersection. It all blurs together after 20 years living somewhere you don't really like I guess. But I never liked the sightlines trying to pull out of that Broadway Pizza, even though I find that location inferior to other Broadways anyway so I should just go to those. :)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 24, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Quote from: kphoger on February 24, 2021, 09:07:44 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 23, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Should also clarify it won't be entirely freeway from Elk River to 35W, as there are a number of minor at-grade crossings between the last Ramsey interchange at Armstrong Blvd and the first Elk River stoplight at 171st Ave.
Oh, I wouldn't expect a full freeway from Coon Rapids to Elk River. Well, maybe in my dreams...
Sorry, that was meant for Papa since he was the one who posted that.
Quote from: kphoger on February 24, 2021, 09:07:44 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 23, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Personally I really hate the crossing at 165th Ave in front of the Broadway Pizza on the edge of Elk River, and wouldn't be opposed to RIROing that.
167th, you mean?
I haven't been west of Ramsey Blvd in ages, so I can't comment on those minor crossroads. What is it about that particular one? Heavy traffic usage, poor sight lines, poor queue storage, ...?
Yeah, the 167th intersection. 165th is the old recycling center intersection. It all blurs together after 20 years living somewhere you don't really like I guess. But I never liked the sightlines trying to pull out of that Broadway Pizza, even though I find that location inferior to other Broadways anyway so I should just go to those. :)
Pizza is horrible in Texas. If I could pull into a Broadway Pizza right now I'd never leave.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 24, 2021, 11:07:31 AM
That money was likely earmarked for transit and can't be used for roads. A lot of people (which is almost always people bitching about transit that they can't/won't use) make the fatal assumption that all transportation money comes from one big pot to be divvied up among all the road, transit, and airport interests. These things have many sources independent of each other that don't cross over and can't be reallocated.
You are correct. Here's the breakdown of the Southwest Rail Project funding:
The total project cost is $2.003 billion. Committed funding sources for the Southwest LRT:
- Hennepin County: $591.4 million
- Counties Transit Improvement Board (CTIB): $218.9 million (provided funding until dissolution in 2017)
- Hennepin County Regional Railroad Authority (HCRRA): $199.5 million
- State of Minnesota: $30.3 million
- Other local contributions: $26.4 million
- Eden Prairie Town Center Station: $7.7 million ($6.14 million CMAQ, $1.54 million Eden Prairie)
- The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) will provide $928.8 million through the New Starts program with a Full Funding Grant Agreement which was signed in September 2020.
Full details on the Project Facts (https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Projects/Light-Rail-Projects/Southwest-LRT/Project-Facts.aspx) page
Half the funding comes from a federal grant which would likely go to a different transit project in another state if it weren't used. A quarter is from Hennepin County which could reallocate their share anywhere. Another 10% came from a dissolved transit fund. (I'm guessing this has already been spent or at least must be spent on transit.) Only 1.5% is coming from the state of Minnesota. Yes, that $30M could be spent elsewhere assuming that money has not been spent for the project. But TheHighwayMan394 is right that it's unlikely that you can reallocate the funding to highways.
Speed limits will increase to 60 on 394 and the Crosstown this summer. These were the two (especially with Crosstown) that I thought it wouldn't happen. It mentions a few for future studies, but the one I'm not seeing is MN 36 inside of 694 - that one definitely could go to 60 without issues unless they're holding out to building the (unscheduled) Century Ave interchange first.
https://www.startribune.com/speed-limit-rising-to-60-mph-on-crosstown-and-i-394/600031541/?fbclid=IwAR0MQQ1pA9jvg76CqOu8iX1gJFeWYR9lndBfvpiS_UBkf_zrQMTVNF9sVRs
I'm surprised as well about Crosstown, the county built segments are pretty curvy and substandard.... Now that the 35W river Minnesota bridge/causeway improvement is near completion, the inner shoulders seem substandard throughout the reconstructed segment (although the additional auxiliary lane/eventual mainline lane (as can be gleaned by the spot for more girders on SB 35W 106th St. bridge) is a welcome addition), are such narrow inner shoulders now considered acceptable for interstates? It seems odd.. it's not as though the corridor is ROW constrained..
South of the bridge there was a strong desire to not expand the footprint of the freeway due to wetlands on one side and contaminated soils on the other. With that in mind they figured out they might as well value engineer the bridge itself to match.
The extra girders aren't for an additional through lane, but extending the auxiliary lane to the 98th street entrance.
Thanks Monte! that makes sense... But I do wonder why other projects seem to have lesser inner shoulders when there are no apparent adjacent ROW issues? projects like the recent I-35E Cayuga project and I-494 north six lane widening come to mind with six foot inner shoulders. It doesn't seem that prior freeway projects in the early 2000's were designed with such narrow inner shoulders such as the early 2000's I-494 southwest widening and highway 100 expansion... Is this a change in policy
Quote from: n0ax on March 11, 2021, 02:17:17 AM
Thanks Monte! that makes sense... But I do wonder why other projects seem to have lesser inner shoulders when there are no apparent adjacent ROW issues? such as the recent I-35E Cayuga project and I-494 north six lane widening, etc.. (six foot inner shoulder instead of the prior ten foot standard for interstates wider than four lanes). It doesn't seem that prior freeway projects used such narrow inner shoulders (the I-494 south project from Eden Prairie to Wayzata in the early 2000's used ten foot ones along with the highway 100 north metro project, etc..).
The only real evidence I have is the details about the final MN 60 four-laning project, but I think reducing shoulder widths for rebuild/widens has been about targeted cost cutting.
For some reason MnDOT didn't put out their annual press release of major projects like they usually do in early April, but here are some highlights (some may have been mentioned as they were previously announced):
MN 7: cleaning up access and repaving between I-494 and Shorewood. (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy7minnetonka-shorewood/index.html), along with adding a second left turn lane at Hopkins Crossroad in Minnetonka.
US 10: freeway extension in Anoka and Ramsey with interchange at Thurston/Cutters Grove and grade separation at Fairoak Avenue (https://clients.bolton-menk.com/hwy10/)
US 10: reconstruction near downtown Elk River (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/projects/h10elkriver/index.html)
US 14: four-lane expansion in Steele and Dodge Counties (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy14/index.html). A new alignment of US 14 will be constructed for this portion of the widening rather than just adding on to the existing two-lane road.
I-35/535/US 53: major interchange rebuild in Duluth finally gets underway after being postponed a year due to cost overruns (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/twin-ports-interchange/)
I-35E and I-94: bridge repairs and resurfacing in downtown St. Paul (not too exciting but will likely create traffic headaches so I'm including it) (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94-i35e-stpaul/index.html)
I-35W: continuing the replacement of the Minnesota River bridge (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i35wbloomington/index.html)
I-35W: continuing adding MnPass lane north of downtown Minneapolis (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/35wnorthmnpass/index.html)
I-35W: continuing the rebuild between 46th Street and I-94 in Minneapolis (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/35w94/index.html)
MN 36: interchange at Manning Avenue in Lake Elmo (https://www.co.washington.mn.us/2662/TH-36-and-Manning-Avenue-Interchange)
MN 61: Grand Marais reconstruction and regional improvement work continues (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d1/projects/hwy-61-grand-marais/index.html)
MN 65: redecking/restoring the Central/3rd Avenue bridge across the Mississippi in downtown Minneapolis (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy65andthirdavebridge/index.html)
I-90: continuing interchange upgrades at US 63/MN 30 in Stewartville (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy63-i90-interchange/index.html); this included a reroute of MN 30 completed last summer
I-94: rebuild/widens in two sections between 494/694 in Maple Grove and MN 24 in Clearwater (with the gap through Monticello) continue (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/i94-mg-clearwater/index.html)
2021 is kind of light. Hopefully funding can make future years juicier.
QuoteI-90: continuing interchange upgrades at US 63/MN 30 in Stewartville; this included a reroute of MN 30 completed last summer
This one isn't an "interchange upgrade" in the sense most roadgeeks would take it...the configuration will be the same as before...a 6-ramp par-clo. The main reason behind the project is replacing the US 63 bridges over I-90.
Any chance the Interstate 90/US 52 interchange could be upgraded to include some free-flow ramps, considering US 52 is an expressway/freeway from Interstate 90 in Rochester all the way to Interstate 94 in Saint Paul? Or are there insufficient traffic counts at the 90/52 junction to warrant free-flow ramps?
Heh, the day after I wonder where the release is, it comes out. http://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction/
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 08, 2021, 05:45:30 PM
Any chance the Interstate 90/US 52 interchange could be upgraded to include some free-flow ramps, considering US 52 is an expressway/freeway from Interstate 90 in Rochester all the way to Interstate 94 in Saint Paul? Or are there insufficient traffic counts at the 90/52 junction to warrant free-flow ramps?
Work is planned for 2024. Because US 63 handles half the movements, a fully free-flow interchange is not really needed. Probably just one from SB 52 to EB 90. Rochester's development seems to be slowly following 63 these days anyway, and maybe more improvements will eventually be needed at the 52/63 southern split than at 52/90.
So eventually, 52/63/90 can become a massive triangle interchange - with development inside it.
One of the upcoming projects is to "Replace signs on I-35E from South I-35E/I-35W Jct in Burnsville to Deerwood Dr in Eagan" Is there a reason for replacing these signs other than (what I'm guessing is) to move the exit tabs from center to right alignment?
Quote from: MNtoOC on April 10, 2021, 02:49:11 PM
One of the upcoming projects is to "Replace signs on I-35E from South I-35E/I-35W Jct in Burnsville to Deerwood Dr in Eagan" Is there a reason for replacing these signs other than (what I'm guessing is) to move the exit tabs from center to right alignment?
I don't get down that way much, but some of the signs on 35E were legitimately aging and in need of replacing. They've also already done some of this work, roughly between the split and Dakota County 11. The last bastion of center tabs is on 494 between 394 and 213, which those signs are still in good condition and the state seems to be in no rush to replace those.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 10, 2021, 05:56:38 PM
I don't get down that way much, but some of the signs on 35E were legitimately aging and in need of replacing.
I wonder if the Series C/D(?) 35E reassurance shields will get replaced then too; I think they may be the last ones I know of left in MN on that southern part of 35E.
https://goo.gl/maps/vn73FvUkp5JWMjzu6
Quote from: MNtoOC on April 10, 2021, 02:49:11 PM
One of the upcoming projects is to "Replace signs on I-35E from South I-35E/I-35W Jct in Burnsville to Deerwood Dr in Eagan" Is there a reason for replacing these signs other than (what I'm guessing is) to move the exit tabs from center to right alignment?
Signs wear out and it's time to replace them. I wouldn't read any more than that into it.
Quote from: froggie on April 08, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
QuoteI-90: continuing interchange upgrades at US 63/MN 30 in Stewartville; this included a reroute of MN 30 completed last summer
This one isn't an "interchange upgrade" in the sense most roadgeeks would take it...the configuration will be the same as before...a 6-ramp par-clo. The main reason behind the project is replacing the US 63 bridges over I-90.
It's an upgrade in that the existing interchange only has 5 ramps.
Forgot that a WB-SB loop didn't exist.
Quote from: MNtoOC on April 10, 2021, 06:32:22 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 10, 2021, 05:56:38 PM
I don't get down that way much, but some of the signs on 35E were legitimately aging and in need of replacing.
I wonder if the Series C/D(?) 35E reassurance shields will get replaced then too; I think they may be the last ones I know of left in MN on that southern part of 35E.
https://goo.gl/maps/vn73FvUkp5JWMjzu6
I admit I'm not well-versed in fonts, but I think there are a couple other isolated BGS still with them
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0333001,-92.9847746,3a,45y,54.6h,107.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-A2xaSiGdmwUvsBkMmhfBQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8635762,-93.4363819,3a,37.5y,74.45h,95.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgnjsXYhNgzymrIEBOcJmCA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Today's Star Tribune says a study is under way for a beltway around St Cloud, including a new Mississippi River crossing south of downtown that would connect with US 10. Here's a link to the article:
https://www.startribune.com/st-cloud-revives-plan-for-new-mississippi-crossing-highway-around-city/600045633/
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on April 14, 2021, 01:58:18 PM
Today's Star Tribune says a study is under way for a beltway around St Cloud, including a new Mississippi River crossing south of downtown that would connect with US 10. Here's a link to the article:
https://www.startribune.com/st-cloud-revives-plan-for-new-mississippi-crossing-highway-around-city/600045633/
A Missippi River crossing sounds like a big deal to we southerners. Then we trcall our trip decades ago to Minneapolis and realize that at that point the Mississippi is about the size of the Sulphur or Sabine.
If the proposed beltway is completely built to freeway standards, maybe it could be numbered Interstate 294.
A river bridge on the south side of St. Cloud has been discussed for at least 20 years. Based on the article, the current proposal is not much different than the last time, with the bridge tying into 33rd St on the Stearns County side. The Sherburne County side is a bit more murky, but previous proposals had it connecting to 10 at or near CSAH 3.
And no, the beltway will not be built to freeway standards, so you can give up on your "I-294" idea.
While the southern segment of the beltline may be helpful in easing congestion on the Division and University river crossings, I think the northern 3/4 of it sounds mostly unnecessary other than possibly the northwestern quadrant between MN 23 and US 10. Because 94 and 10 don't come close to downtown, the vast majority of traffic in St. Cloud has a start/end either there or Sauk Rapids. I also don't think the beltline will do much to address the stated problem of commuter congestion from Mille Lacs and central Benton counties. This project might be better sold as a MN 23 bypass whether entirely city/county driven or someday possibly upgraded to a state highway; there seems to be no interest in doing this, but perhaps making the bypass the full-fledged MN 23 whenever the southern quadrant is completed would fit the long-term vision for the corridor better anyway based on what is being done southwest of St. Cloud and the current four-lane section to the northeast that exists to Foley.
While more river crossings are absolutely needed, what needs to be addressed in tandem is that getting E/W across downtown St. Cloud f**king sucks especially east of MN 15. Building that southern quadrant might keep some traffic off the other river crossings, but that traffic will still be finding its way up to Division eventually and causing the same congestion on it. Division is pretty much the only way to cross the river E/W since University and St. Germain don't work well as through crossings, with the University crossing specifically cited in the beltline study as overcapacity and also does not connect to anything meaningful.
How about we get rid of the signals on 10 and 15 first?
Quote from: Mdcastle on April 15, 2021, 10:28:33 AM
How about we get rid of the signals on 10 and 15 first?
Especially since 15/23/75 has been at the top of the state's "most dangerous" intersections lists for decades. Retail chain hell on those corners will make this extremely difficult to fix now.
IIRC, there was an initial proposal about ten or fifteen years ago to fix some of the congestion on University by expanding the bridge and roadway to four lanes from 4th Avenue on east with the possibly to even extend University to US-10 but the project never got off the ground because of intense opposition from the neighborhood about the increased traffic and impacts to parkland. Damn George Friedrich Park.
Also, regarding the 15 freeway I've pretty much accepted that it's never gonna happen. The best we can hope for at this point is a freeway north of 12th Street and maybe some improvements to the "hump" over the railroad tracks between 3rd and 8th.
Quote from: n0ax on March 09, 2021, 09:11:35 PM
I'm surprised as well about Crosstown, the county built segments are pretty curvy and substandard.... Now that the 35W river Minnesota bridge/causeway improvement is near completion, the inner shoulders seem substandard throughout the reconstructed segment (although the additional auxiliary lane/eventual mainline lane (as can be gleaned by the spot for more girders on SB 35W 106th St. bridge) is a welcome addition), are such narrow inner shoulders now considered acceptable for interstates? It seems odd.. it's not as though the corridor is ROW constrained..
I swear every time I drive Crosstown, the section between France Avenue and 35W (especially between Xerxes and Penn) looks even more dilapidated than the previous time I was on it.
While doing a little research on the John A Johnson Memorial Highway (169 from St Peter to 494), I noticed something interesting with the signs for Broadway Avenue at 169. Google Street View history shows the signs as originally posted said "Broadway Ave" but greenout has been placed over the Ave portion so they now just say "Broadway" Does anyone know, or want to guess, as to what's going on there?
Quote from: MNtoOC on April 24, 2021, 07:53:58 PM
While doing a little research on the John A Johnson Memorial Highway (169 from St Peter to 494), I noticed something interesting with the signs for Broadway Avenue at 169. Google Street View history shows the signs as originally posted said "Broadway Ave" but greenout has been placed over the Ave portion so they now just say "Broadway" Does anyone know, or want to guess, as to what's going on there?
My guess is because "Broadway St/Ave" is redundant that perhaps some jurisdictions and/or MnDOT are trying to eliminate the redundancy, though those not intimately familiar with the New York street probably wouldn't notice or care. In Grand Marais, the main N/S street is Broadway Avenue, but when they replaced the stoplight at MN 61 last year the LGSs on the new stoplights read just "Broadway"; the old stoplights had no name plates, but the local blades say "Broadway Ave".
During the 2020 construction season, Anoka County completed the widening and median (re)construction on Hanson Blvd/CSAH 78 between US 10 and Main St/CSAH 14. One component of that included an additional through lane on SB Hanson Blvd at the intersection with Gateway Dr-Northdale Blvd, which ties in directly to the double left turn lanes at the single-point urban interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.1836581,-93.3142543,166m/data=!3m1!1e3) with US 10. I assume this was done because during morning rush hour, the left lane (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.1845869,-93.3132601,3a,90y,206.84h,92.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfhvIVVAYzQFtN8fHnftXSg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) would get clogged as far as 121st Ave, and even farther during the winter. As it is striped today, this isn't a sufficient solution in my opinion. What do you all think?
I think Andover built itself up too much...I've been in metropolitan regions where 4 through lanes through an intersection occurs and it's not fun for anybody.
(says the guy whose mother lived in NW Andover for many years...)
Yeah, as a long time resident of Elk River dealing with the sprawl in Andover, Blaine, and Coon Rapids got to be a major headache.
Take this fact as you will, but Hanson Blvd is now at least a 4-lane divided roadway from Coon Rapids Blvd to just north of Crosstown Blvd in Andover.
4 lanes, no big deal. 6 lanes, not common in the Twin Cities but routine in larger metropolitan areas. 8 lanes is where I question the wisdom.
When I said "4 through lanes through an intersection" in my earlier comment, I was referring to 4 through lanes in one direction.
Quote from: andarcondadont on April 26, 2021, 12:25:42 AM
Take this fact as you will, but Hanson Blvd is now at least a 4-lane divided roadway from Coon Rapids Blvd to just north of Crosstown Blvd in Andover.
Awesome, one step closer to it being 4-laned all the way up to 22! :) (sarcasm, I remember when the sprawl hadn't gotten that far. and the stoplights on 22 at County 9 weren't there yet, nor the strip developments at that corner..)
Hehe. Anoka County has also got to 4-lane CSAH 22 from the West county line to the East county line if they want to 4-lane the entirety of CSAH 78 AND transfer ownership to MnDOT. *Wink, wink
Quote from: andarcondadont on April 26, 2021, 12:41:05 AM
Hehe. Anoka County has also got to 4-lane CSAH 22 from the West county line to the East county line if they want to 4-lane the entirety of CSAH 78 AND transfer ownership to MnDOT. *Wink, wink
Well...I don't really see that happening. I could see some improvements over the next 20-30 years between the Sherburne line and MN 65 if the sprawl keeps moving north:
-if Sherburne County wants to get on board, possibly 4-laning the rest of Sherburne 12 and the segment of 22 leading up to the current 4-way stop at the south end of 22's N/S segment
-stoplight at MN 47 replacing the 4-way stop, but my travels through here have never suggested this to be needed
-interchange at MN 65 (which MnDOT and the Met Council want but can't currently fund, although the issues with the RCI they built there might force some hands)
In other words, if you want MN 242 back they should just put it back on 14 between US 10 and MN 65.
How'd you know I wanted MN 242 back?! Was it the profile picture?
In all seriousness, I don't think MN 242 should actually be brought back on CSAH 14 (maybe I'm biased because I live a few blocks away from it). What I am hopeful for (and what I hope we agree on) is either a CSAH 14 interchange at I-35W or an interchange on I-35E at 80th Street with a roadway extension directly to CSAH 14 somehow.
Quote from: andarcondadont on April 26, 2021, 01:13:44 AM
How'd you know I wanted MN 242 back?! Was it the profile picture?
That, and the winking in your previous post. ;)
Quote
In all seriousness, I don't think MN 242 should actually be brought back on CSAH 14 (maybe I'm biased because I live a few blocks away from it). What I am hopeful for (and what I hope we agree on) is either a CSAH 14 interchange at I-35W or an interchange on I-35E at 80th Street with a roadway extension directly to CSAH 14 somehow.
I could see some merit to a future I-35W/Main interchange in Lino Lakes, but failing that there's zero purpose for the 35E/80th interchange. That's in the middle of nowhere, and 80th will never be extended west to meet County 14 for multiple reasons.
Quote from: andarcondadont on April 26, 2021, 01:13:44 AM
What I am hopeful for (and what I hope we agree on) is either a CSAH 14 interchange at I-35W or an interchange on I-35E at 80th Street with a roadway extension directly to CSAH 14 somehow.
Two of the three (roadway extension called the "CSAH 14 Northerly Bypass", and an interchange at 35E/80th) have appeared on Anoka County transportation plans over the past 15 years.
MnDoT has begun rebuilding MN-12 through Orono and Maple Plain. A concrete divider is being constructed in the median of MN-12 through Orono, and a roundabout is being built at the MN-12 / County Road 90 interchange. More information here:
https://www.startribune.com/welcomed-construction-mndot-begins-building-median-wall-on-hwy-12-in-west-metro/600058527/
I know it's impossible, and will never happen, but I wish MN-12 could be upgraded to a freeway from where the current freeway stretch ends, to at least Delano.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on May 19, 2021, 06:34:24 AM
... MN-12 through Orono and Maple Plain ... MN-12 through Orono ... MN-12 / County Road 90 interchange ... MN-12 ...
That isn't MN-12.
MN-12 was decommissioned almost 90 years ago.
http://www.steve-riner.com/mnhighways/r1-25.htm
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on May 19, 2021, 06:34:24 AM
I know it's impossible, and will never happen, but I wish MN-12 could be upgraded to a freeway from where the current freeway stretch ends, to at least Delano.
Froggie said a couple times that this ship sailed when Maple Plain and Independence couldn't agree on a bypass route 25 years ago.
There also was once a State Highway 12 here in Wisconsin, which ironically followed present-day US 12's route along its entire length through the state (minus a few realignments and rerouting the highway onto freeway and expressway alignments). Thus, all they had to do when the US Highway System debuted in 1926 was replace the STH-12 signs with US 12 signs. I think the Star Tribune article should have called the highway US Highway 12 instead of just Highway 12. Then again, since there is only one Highway 12 in Minnesota, I doubt anyone was confused when they omitted the "US" part from the article.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 19, 2021, 08:58:34 PMI think the Star Tribune article should have called the highway US Highway 12 instead of just Highway 12. Then again, since there is only one Highway 12 in Minnesota, I doubt anyone was confused when they omitted the "US" part from the article.
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 05:19:00 PM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on May 19, 2021, 06:34:24 AM
I know it's impossible, and will never happen, but I wish MN-12 could be upgraded to a freeway from where the current freeway stretch ends, to at least Delano.
Froggie said a couple times that this ship sailed when Maple Plain and Independence couldn't agree on a bypass route 25 years ago.
Correct. MnDOT studied a 4-lane Hwy 12 out past Delano in the early '90s, but dropped it when the respective towns in western Hennepin County couldn't agree on a routing. Independence wanted it along existing 12 through Maple Plain, while Maple Plain wanted a bypass. A similar argument between Orono and Long Lake almost killed the Long Lake bypass.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
Occasionally, but not often. I'd usually hear "County xx" or "County Road xx".
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 19, 2021, 08:58:34 PMI think the Star Tribune article should have called the highway US Highway 12 instead of just Highway 12. Then again, since there is only one Highway 12 in Minnesota, I doubt anyone was confused when they omitted the "US" part from the article.
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't hear US routes in various states called as "US X" that much either, it's mostly "Highway X", "Route X" or just the number, like with "Highway 40" in St Louis. Some people I met don't know the difference between US routes and state routes.
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
I was specifically referring to state-maintained routes, but yes, you're right.
With the I-94 rebuild/widen from 494/694 to Rogers construction back underway, MnDOT is doing express/local lanes on I-94 for westbound traffic - the express lane begins just after 494/694, right after people have gotten through the painful center lane merge coming off 494 and 694. This s going to be a complete shitshow as we get into the heart of cabin season because of all the idiots who couldn't figure it out last year when it was on the eastbound side from 101 to 494/694, and that was without a major interchange just behind them.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:21 PM
With the I-94 rebuild/widen from 494/694 to Rogers construction back underway, MnDOT is doing express/local lanes on I-94 for westbound traffic - the express lane begins just after 494/694, right after people have gotten through the painful center lane merge coming off 494 and 694. This s going to be a complete shitshow as we get into the heart of cabin season because of all the idiots who couldn't figure it out last year when it was on the eastbound side from 101 to 494/694, and that was without a major interchange just behind them.
I *still* can't figure out why they aren't adding an auxiliary lane on WB 94 from the 494/694 interchange to Weaver Lake Road. It seems like giving drivers that additional 1/2 mile to merge would go a long way at reducing backups and I can't imagine a little extra concrete would break the bank on a $150 million+ project.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 19, 2021, 08:58:34 PMI think the Star Tribune article should have called the highway US Highway 12 instead of just Highway 12. Then again, since there is only one Highway 12 in Minnesota, I doubt anyone was confused when they omitted the "US" part from the article.
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I'm not sure I would use the word colloquial. WisDOT has always called them state trunk highways, county trunk highways, etc. in spite of the efforts of the US Postal Service (when did they ever own or maintain highways?) and people from Minnesota and Illinois (and now Wisconsin) to incorrectly call them county roads and state roads in Wisconsin.
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
I used to work at a firm on Highway 10 before TH610/10 was completed. Our address was on "Highway 10" when it was still a US highway. I suspect that reference carries over since the number didn't change with the turnback in the "˜90s.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on May 30, 2021, 04:58:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
I used to work at a firm on Highway 10 before TH610/10 was completed. Our address was on "Highway 10" when it was still a US highway. I suspect that reference carries over since the number didn't change with the turnback in the "˜90s.
Speaking of County 10, MnDOT seems unable to make up its mind on signage for it - they replaced all the County 10 shields on I-35W with text "County 10" in recent years to try to eliminate confusion with US 10, but with the MnPass rebuild and widen on 35W in that area, a bunch of the new signs installed in that project have County 10 shields again.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 30, 2021, 09:06:47 PM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on May 30, 2021, 04:58:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
I used to work at a firm on Highway 10 before TH610/10 was completed. Our address was on "Highway 10" when it was still a US highway. I suspect that reference carries over since the number didn't change with the turnback in the "˜90s.
Speaking of County 10, MnDOT seems unable to make up its mind on signage for it - they replaced all the County 10 shields on I-35W with text "County 10" in recent years to try to eliminate confusion with US 10, but with the MnPass rebuild and widen on 35W in that area, a bunch of the new signs installed in that project have County 10 shields again.
Can't they just renumber County 10? I feel like that would be easier.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 31, 2021, 04:38:19 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 30, 2021, 09:06:47 PM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on May 30, 2021, 04:58:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
I used to work at a firm on Highway 10 before TH610/10 was completed. Our address was on "Highway 10" when it was still a US highway. I suspect that reference carries over since the number didn't change with the turnback in the "˜90s.
Speaking of County 10, MnDOT seems unable to make up its mind on signage for it - they replaced all the County 10 shields on I-35W with text "County 10" in recent years to try to eliminate confusion with US 10, but with the MnPass rebuild and widen on 35W in that area, a bunch of the new signs installed in that project have County 10 shields again.
Can't they just renumber County 10? I feel like that would be easier.
Sure, Anoka County 3 is already pretty short. Maybe extend the Anoka County 3 designation to replace Anoka County 10. As for Ramsey County, I do not have an idea for renumbering County 10.
Quote from: andarcondadont on May 31, 2021, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 31, 2021, 04:38:19 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 30, 2021, 09:06:47 PM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on May 30, 2021, 04:58:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
I used to work at a firm on Highway 10 before TH610/10 was completed. Our address was on "Highway 10" when it was still a US highway. I suspect that reference carries over since the number didn't change with the turnback in the "˜90s.
Speaking of County 10, MnDOT seems unable to make up its mind on signage for it - they replaced all the County 10 shields on I-35W with text "County 10" in recent years to try to eliminate confusion with US 10, but with the MnPass rebuild and widen on 35W in that area, a bunch of the new signs installed in that project have County 10 shields again.
Can't they just renumber County 10? I feel like that would be easier.
Sure, Anoka County 3 is already pretty short. Maybe extend the Anoka County 3 designation to replace Anoka County 10. As for Ramsey County, I do not have an idea for renumbering County 10.
Ramsey County 3's western terminus is at County 10 very near I-35W, so it probably wouldn't be too much hassle to renumber (nearly) the whole corridor as County 3. Just leave the remaining part of County 10 between County I and I-35W as an unmarked county road.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 31, 2021, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: andarcondadont on May 31, 2021, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 31, 2021, 04:38:19 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 30, 2021, 09:06:47 PM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on May 30, 2021, 04:58:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
I used to work at a firm on Highway 10 before TH610/10 was completed. Our address was on "Highway 10" when it was still a US highway. I suspect that reference carries over since the number didn't change with the turnback in the "˜90s.
Speaking of County 10, MnDOT seems unable to make up its mind on signage for it - they replaced all the County 10 shields on I-35W with text "County 10" in recent years to try to eliminate confusion with US 10, but with the MnPass rebuild and widen on 35W in that area, a bunch of the new signs installed in that project have County 10 shields again.
Can't they just renumber County 10? I feel like that would be easier.
Sure, Anoka County 3 is already pretty short. Maybe extend the Anoka County 3 designation to replace Anoka County 10. As for Ramsey County, I do not have an idea for renumbering County 10.
Ramsey County 3's western terminus is at County 10 very near I-35W, so it probably wouldn't be too much hassle to renumber (nearly) the whole corridor as County 3. Just leave the remaining part of County 10 between County I and I-35W as an unmarked county road.
On top of that, County 10 through Mounds View is locally known as Mounds View Blvd (a relatively new name). Why don't MnDOT signs make use of that name to reduce confusion with US Highway 10?
How about "CSAH-110"? Just an idea. Now that there's no more MN-110.
Quote from: andarcondadont on May 31, 2021, 09:52:57 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 31, 2021, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: andarcondadont on May 31, 2021, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 31, 2021, 04:38:19 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 30, 2021, 09:06:47 PM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on May 30, 2021, 04:58:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 19, 2021, 09:05:47 PM
Somewhat similarly to Wisconsin, in local jargon in Minnesota everything that isn't an interstate is colloquially called "Highway X". Interstates are either I-x or just referred to by number with no prefix at all.
I don't think I've ever heard county highways referred to that way in Minnesota.
For example, I've heard "Anoka 10" and "Anoka County 10", but I've never heard it called "Highway 10". (This was perhaps not the best example, considering there's a US-10 nearby, but my point stands.)
I used to work at a firm on Highway 10 before TH610/10 was completed. Our address was on "Highway 10" when it was still a US highway. I suspect that reference carries over since the number didn't change with the turnback in the "˜90s.
Speaking of County 10, MnDOT seems unable to make up its mind on signage for it - they replaced all the County 10 shields on I-35W with text "County 10" in recent years to try to eliminate confusion with US 10, but with the MnPass rebuild and widen on 35W in that area, a bunch of the new signs installed in that project have County 10 shields again.
Can't they just renumber County 10? I feel like that would be easier.
Sure, Anoka County 3 is already pretty short. Maybe extend the Anoka County 3 designation to replace Anoka County 10. As for Ramsey County, I do not have an idea for renumbering County 10.
Ramsey County 3's western terminus is at County 10 very near I-35W, so it probably wouldn't be too much hassle to renumber (nearly) the whole corridor as County 3. Just leave the remaining part of County 10 between County I and I-35W as an unmarked county road.
On top of that, County 10 through Mounds View is locally known as Mounds View Blvd (a relatively new name). Why don't MnDOT signs make use of that name to reduce confusion with US Highway 10?
Correcting my mistake: after a drive through I-35W north in Mounds View, I noticed that the signs for the County 10 exit do, in fact, include the local name, Mounds View Blvd.
Anyone know when MNpass will officially join EZPass? Read last year that it was supposed to happen sometime this summer, but no info on actual date or new tags etc.
Quote from: on_wisconsin on June 15, 2021, 08:23:33 PM
Anyone know when MNpass will officially join EZPass? Read last year that it was supposed to happen sometime this summer, but no info on actual date or new tags etc.
Since MnDOT is only doing this because they're being forced, it's a nebulous "whenever they decide to finish it".
There's a contract out to completely replace the MnPASS back office systems do to this, although it implies the actual linkage to EZPass and "other systems that may be required to fulfill the requirements of MAP-21" is implied to be a future phase.
MNDot has been ready to accept EZ-Pass for several years with new tri-mode readers so it's a matter of A) replacing the back office with a compatible system and work out an agreement to link them, and B) starting to issue new transponders. I'm assuming they'll be dual mode ISO 18000 6B / EZPass like North Carolina has.
Anyone know why Highway 212 is closed between 169 and 494 today?
Quote from: STLmapboy on June 18, 2021, 11:30:03 AM
Anyone know why Highway 212 is closed between 169 and 494 today?
Construction work on the Southwest LRT, which will overpass US 212 at the Shady Oak Road interchange. I think this closure has lasted several days longer than planned by now.
Postmortem, US 212 finally reopened Friday afternoon 6/18. The initial closure was supposed to be last Saturday to this past Tuesday if I recall seeing the signs on my commute.
Does anybody have any pictures of this sign arrangement?
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9515764,-93.1216812,3a,75y,85.32h,85.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPkTLbi_sSRr--gNnFVxlbg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
Because the image in this picture is terrible:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Interstate_94_-_St_Paul,_MN_-_panoramio_(3).jpg
And I'd rather wait until there's a replacement than tag it for any defects.
I took a wild day trip to I-Falls, making a couple observations:
1. They've done some exit number recalibration on I-35W.
County E2: Exit 26 -> Exit 26A
I-694: Exits 27 A&B -> Exits 26 B&C
County 96: Exit 28A -> Exit 27
2. Heading east on MN 11 out of International Falls, there was a small white double-sided "END/BEGIN STATE MAINT" set just past the 3rd Avenue East intersection on the east end of town, identical to the ones at the highway's eastern terminus several miles ahead. It got me wondering if MnDOT turned over MN 11 in downtown I-Falls with the highway still marked through the city; I couldn't find any info either way on Google so I assume this sign refers to something else and MN 11 is still under state maintenance in downtown (admittedly I'm not sure if this is allowed in MN like it is in other states). However, it would be consistent with MnDOT wanting local cities to maintain local streets in urban cores. The routings of all three highways in downtown I-Falls (11/53/US 71) are a mess.
^ Did you happen to see if there were any exit number changes at Hwy 10 or County Rd H?
Quote from: froggie on June 22, 2021, 09:23:21 AM
^ Did you happen to see if there were any exit number changes at Hwy 10 or County Rd H?
I'll have to go back through there again to double check what has changed to what numbers. I'm assuming yes since 96 was the old Exit 28A (which probably pushes County 10 to 28A and County H to 28B), but I only initially noticed the changes at the three interchanges I noted.
Something I missed or wasn't previously announced; early July kicks off a three-year stretch of improvements on US 52 between Cannon Falls and Zumbrota. These include various reconstructions (mostly on the southbound lanes), a new interchange at MN 57, and improvements at both MN 60 interchanges. It does mention planned improvements at Goodhue CSAH 7 had to be scrapped for now due to financial constraints.
I'm starting to think the railroad crossing north of Cannon Falls will ultimately be the last thing to go on US 52. :awesomeface:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy52-hader-southbound-improvements/index.html
The "improvements" at the two MN 60 interchange are bridge replacements.
With the talk of I-90's control cities in another thread, this got me wondering: is there a reason why I-90 is routed in the state the way it is (the US 16 route), instead of roughly paralleling MN 60 between Worthington and Mankato, then US 14 between Mankato and Rochester? With this routing, it would pass the two largest cities in the state south of the Twin Cities (Rochester and Mankato), and even the city it intersects I-35 at (Owatonna) is larger than Albert Lea. The distances in both routings between MN 60 in Worthington and US 52 east of Rochester is roughly the same too.
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 26, 2021, 11:34:10 PM
With the talk of I-90's control cities in another thread, this got me wondering: is there a reason why I-90 is routed in the state the way it is (the US 16 route), instead of roughly paralleling MN 60 between Worthington and Mankato, then US 14 between Mankato and Rochester? With this routing, it would pass the two largest cities in the state south of the Twin Cities (Rochester and Mankato), and even the city it intersects I-35 at (Owatonna) is larger than Albert Lea. The distances in both routings between MN 60 in Worthington and US 52 east of Rochester is roughly the same too.
According to Wikipedia, Albert Lea was larger than Owatonna in 1960, close to when Interstates were established, and Austin was (and remains) larger than Albert Lea. Considering how close it gets to the Hormel plant, I suspect whoever represented Austin in the Minnesota legislature back then had a big say in how the interstate got routed.
Also to consider: back in the Interstate planning days, US 16 had more cross-state travel than US 14 did.
Rochester wasn't really all that much more significant than those other cities at that time, either. It was only about the time the Interstates were laid out that Rochester's explosive growth started that has generally continued until today.
IMO...IBM, the Mayo Clinic, and the 4-laning of US 52 all had far more to do with Rochester's growth than I-90 did.
Quote from: froggie on June 27, 2021, 12:14:48 PM
IMO...IBM, the Mayo Clinic, and the 4-laning of US 52 all had far more to do with Rochester's growth than I-90 did.
Given that I-90 is over 10 miles away from downtown Rochester, I'd have to agree with you.
Quote from: andarcondadont on June 27, 2021, 06:15:13 PM
Quote from: froggie on June 27, 2021, 12:14:48 PM
IMO...IBM, the Mayo Clinic, and the 4-laning of US 52 all had far more to do with Rochester's growth than I-90 did.
Given that I-90 is over 10 miles away from downtown Rochester, I'd have to agree with you.
I apologize for this upcoming blunt comment, but I never implied Rochester exploding in the 1950s and the planning of I-90 were related. How
could they be related? Is there just some way I speak that everybody I interact with in life always think I'm making some kind of unspoken assumption or correlation?
QuoteIt was only about the time the Interstates were laid out that Rochester's explosive growth started that has generally continued until today.
This is the statement you made that I interpreted as that implication. If that wasn't your intention, my apologies.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 24, 2021, 07:36:07 PM
Something I missed or wasn't previously announced; early July kicks off a three-year stretch of improvements on US 52 between Cannon Falls and Zumbrota. These include various reconstructions (mostly on the southbound lanes), a new interchange at MN 57, and improvements at both MN 60 interchanges. It does mention planned improvements at Goodhue CSAH 7 had to be scrapped for now due to financial constraints.
I'm starting to think the railroad crossing north of Cannon Falls will ultimately be the last thing to go on US 52. :awesomeface:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy52-hader-southbound-improvements/index.html
I have a dumb newbie question....but please bear with me:
With these improvements, how close are we to having a full limited access freeway from Eagan to Rochester?
After these improvements are done, what else would need to be completed?
While a number of access points and median crossings will be eliminated, there will be no fundamental change in controlled-access status as many private driveways and intersections will remain. True, the project adds an interchange at MN 57, but there are properties in both directions from 57 that will retain at least RIRO access, including this one (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3716992,-92.8052002,322m/data=!3m1!1e3) and this one (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3559362,-92.7819018,380m/data=!3m1!1e3).
This weekend is the final scheduled full closure of I-35W between I-94 and Crosstown. Only two more months to go and the major work will be done.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 10, 2021, 02:29:26 PM
This weekend is the final scheduled full closure of I-35W between I-94 and Crosstown. Only two more months to go and the major work will be done.
With the end in sight for this project, MnDoT has announced the next major project: a rebuild of I-494 from Cedar Avenue to US 169. Work will be done between 2023 and 2026. The two biggest projects will be a flyover ramp from northbound 35W to westbound 494 that will significantly reduce congestion at this interchange, and MnPass lanes. More information here:
https://www.startribune.com/mndot-gets-60-million-federal-grant-to-upgrade-i-494-in-bloomington/600077093/
Wish the next one was 94 between mpls and St paul
^ MnDOT's studying what to do with that one (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/I-94minneapolis-stpaul/index.html) already. Probably looking 2025ish timeframe and be a general reconstruction. Given the howls from the city, I doubt you'll see additional lanes...if you do, it'll probably be along the lines of a "dynamic shoulder lane" (for buses/HOV) like what northbound 35W had north of 42nd pre-current-construction.
Though amongst some of the St. Paul urbanists, I've made the suggestion to add a HO/T lane along 94...and in return, drop a lane each way on University. They haven't dismissed my suggestion.
With all the auxiliary lanes, they could stitch them together and have a continuous 3 general plus one HOT lane while still talking out of both sides of their mouth, saying they're not really expanding the footprint and not really talking lanes away from single occupant drivers.
That wouldn't work west of 280. And the uber-urbanists would readily catch on to that idea.
The state working toward allocating money for the urbanists' deeply desired Rondo cap might appease some of them enough that they won't scream too loudly at anything that doesn't result in expanding the freeway's footprint and making the cap significantly more expensive than it already will be. The urbanist zealots, no, but I think many will accept that.
I don't drive I-94 between the downtown during rush as my normal patters, but does it really need a 10-laning or is the problem the stupid bottleneck through the Snelling interchange?
Anyway, on another note: the 60 MPH increase on I-394 went into effect in the last day or two. Drove it Monday and it was still 55, but was 60 when I drove it this evening. In addition, it appears the 40 section from 94 into downtown has been raised to 45.
Ya I don't think it needs 10 lanes. 3 plus a HOT is perfect. Put in a bus station by snelling. Maybe cut the frontage roads down a lane and put in a protected bike lane in exchange too. If only a billion dollars would appear and we could do a real fix for 35w/94 and lowry tunnel.
Pre-pandemic, volumes between the downtowns were in the 150K-165K range, comparable to the 494 Bloomington Strip. One could argue that you're approaching 10-lane territory there. It's also considerably higher than 94 between 3rd/4th and 252/694, where they ARE planning 4+HOT.
Quote from: froggie on July 15, 2021, 08:48:53 AM
Pre-pandemic, volumes between the downtowns were in the 150K-165K range, comparable to the 494 Bloomington Strip. One could argue that you're approaching 10-lane territory there. It's also considerably higher than 94 between 3rd/4th and 252/694, where they ARE planning 4+HOT.
MnDoT is beginning a rebuild of I-94 in downtown St Paul this weekend. There's no indication of any plans to increase capacity:
https://www.startribune.com/two-year-freeway-construction-project-begins-sunday-in-downtown-st-paul/600078242/
^ That project is a pavement repair/resurfacing project (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i94-i35e-stpaul/index.html).
E-ZPass compatibility activation date set for August 2: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/?fbclid=IwAR1S077oKfmqaVBXdowJdBF9TFZ4wIA0sDL5L-_Uc05iBrVlp63gFya4ki8
The MnPass designation will be phased out in favor of E-ZPass. Old MnPass tags will not be compatible with non-MnPass roads; users will need a new E-ZPass transponder if they want to use it in other states.
Just reading the literature from MnDOT, it looks like their version of EZPass may be the one to get for anyone looking pick one up. Only $25 for the unit and all models will (obviously) have an HOV Mode, no periodic fees etc...
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/downloads/E-ZPass-MN-DigitalBro21.pdf
Quote from: on_wisconsin on July 16, 2021, 02:39:09 PM
Just reading the literature from MnDOT, looks like their version of EZPass may be the one to get for anyone looking pick one up. Only $25 for the unit and all models will (obviously) have an HOV Mode, no periodic fees etc...
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/downloads/E-ZPass-MN-DigitalBro21.pdf
We might switch to the MN one once it's released if all of that is the case. My dad have probably paid at least $25 in monthly fees for Ohio's EZ Pass already, and the HOV option would be a nice to have on roads like I-77 Charlotte.
Now that Florida is also onboard we just need to get South Carolina.
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 16, 2021, 02:51:29 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on July 16, 2021, 02:39:09 PM
Just reading the literature from MnDOT, looks like their version of EZPass may be the one to get for anyone looking pick one up. Only $25 for the unit and all models will (obviously) have an HOV Mode, no periodic fees etc...
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/downloads/E-ZPass-MN-DigitalBro21.pdf
We might switch to the MN one once it's released if all of that is the case. My dad have probably paid at least $25 in monthly fees for Ohio's EZ Pass already, and the HOV option would be a nice to have on roads like I-77 Charlotte.
Virginia has several managed lane corridors where HOV vehicles (usually HOV-3) get free passage if they have an E-ZPass Flex transponder in HOV mode.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 15, 2021, 03:01:46 PM
E-ZPass compatibility activation date set for August 2: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/?fbclid=IwAR1S077oKfmqaVBXdowJdBF9TFZ4wIA0sDL5L-_Uc05iBrVlp63gFya4ki8
The MnPass designation will be phased out in favor of E-ZPass. Old MnPass tags will not be compatible with non-MnPass roads; users will need a new E-ZPass transponder if they want to use it in other states.
WCCO-TV 4 (CBS): MnPass To Become E-ZPass, Usable On Toll Roads In 19 Other States (https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/07/15/mnpass-to-become-e-zpass-usable-on-toll-roads-in-19-other-states/)
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 17, 2021, 10:47:37 AM
Now that Florida is also onboard we just need to get South Carolina.
And Georgia.
I noticed on the MNDoT site that their plan for future HOT lanes includes MN-252. Are they finally gonna freeway that corridor?
^ I'm surprised you haven't noticed (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy252study/index.html), especially since it's been over the news here and there the past few years. They even got Corridors of Commerce (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/corridorsofcommerce/) funding in 2018.
There was popup funding for a couple of interchanges. The funding is still there waiting but those are on pause now while a full EIS of the entire I-94 / 252 corridor from the viaduct north.
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 19, 2021, 02:53:00 PM
There was popup funding for a couple of interchanges. The funding is still there waiting but those are on pause now while a full EIS of the entire I-94 / 252 corridor from the viaduct north.
It sounds like some in the Brooklyn Park/Center city governments are starting to cool on the idea of converting 252, at least fully. I don't really understand why because there aren't really any homes close to the road that would be impacted by accessibility issues.
In Brooklyn Center's case, it has more to do with A) 70th and diversion of traffic, and B) business impacts at 66th.
MnPass branding has been removed in favor of E-ZPass on the fixed signs.
The Star Tribune says the final upgrades of Mn 212 to a four lane highway through Carver County will be completed by 2025. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/finish-line-in-sight-for-hwy-212-expressway-across-carver-county/600081097/
Widening will be done by the end of next year between Carver and Cologne, with the final stretch to be completed afterward.
Froggie (or anyone else), will the stretches west of Carver be four lane divided highway, or a full freeway? If they will be a divided highway, will enough right of way be provided to allow conversion to a limited access freeway at a later date?
The design layouts I've seen are for 4-lane divided with RCUTs. Private driveways would remain but all cross-median movements would be done via the RCUTs. I've seen references to an overpass at CSAH 51 (between NYA and Cologne) with connections via access roads with RIROs on 212 (instead of more traditional interchange ramps) but since final design of the NYA-Cologne stretch is ongoing, that may change.
Here's the layout (https://www.co.carver.mn.us/home/showpublisheddocument/18521/637378223581870000) for what's currently under construction between Cologne and Chaska. Imagine something similar west of Cologne with the possibility of some sort of overpass at CSAH 51.
One problem is now that we're getting away from the ROW of the new 212 freeway, dealing with the existing driveways and minor cross streets and trying to squeeze in interchanges on the mini-bypasses of Cologne and NYA will be a little more expensive and touchy.
Unrelated and fictional, but now looking at the map I'm slightly annoyed that there's no Glencoe cutoff for MN 22 so you can skip having to arc eastward through Glencoe to stay on 22. :P
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 24, 2021, 11:31:56 PM
Unrelated and unfictional, but now looking at the map I'm slightly annoyed that there's no Glencoe cutoff for MN 22 so you can skip having to arc eastward through Glencoe to stay on 22. :P
(FTFY)
MnDOT and Glencoe are studying 22's routing (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy212hwy22glencoe/progress.html).
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 17, 2021, 10:47:37 AM
Now that Florida is also onboard we just need to get South Carolina.
Hopefully the KY/OK/TX network after that. Chicago-KC is not that much farther than Chicago-Twin Cities, but you're in a different ETC network from E-ZPass in the former.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 18, 2021, 06:04:16 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 16, 2021, 02:51:29 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on July 16, 2021, 02:39:09 PM
Just reading the literature from MnDOT, looks like their version of EZPass may be the one to get for anyone looking pick one up. Only $25 for the unit and all models will (obviously) have an HOV Mode, no periodic fees etc...
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/downloads/E-ZPass-MN-DigitalBro21.pdf
We might switch to the MN one once it's released if all of that is the case. My dad have probably paid at least $25 in monthly fees for Ohio's EZ Pass already, and the HOV option would be a nice to have on roads like I-77 Charlotte.
are we going to need an road user bill of right before some get's hit with an fine with HOV mode from an differnt state? setting HOV on = HOV 3+ in one place / HOV = 2 in an other and just HOV = ON in an 3rd. and in an 4 = FREE MODE not for public use?
Virginia has several managed lane corridors where HOV vehicles (usually HOV-3) get free passage if they have an E-ZPass Flex transponder in HOV mode.
I guess I'm not understanding the issue. . E-ZPass is either always on or switchable on vs off. If you want to use HOT lanes you need a switchable one. There's a sign every half mile telling you who is allowed to use the lane.
MnPass has been electronically compatible with the Texokansas block sense the switch from Telematics to Sego-6B a few years ago, but unlike E-ZPass there's few people here that are clambering for it.
Took a drive along 35W between Crosstown and 94 today and everything is starting to look in place. NB is now open to three lanes on its own carriageway from 46th to 94, the NB overpass at Lake St is open, and the new NB exit ramp to 28th St looks ready to open fairly soon. Still a lot of signs that have yet to be put in place on the mainline.
The new 2021-22 state map finally dropped within the last few days. Nothing really new and exciting compared to the 2019-20.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/statemap/
Part of the currently paved section of MN 74 between Weaver and Elba will be converted to gravel; MnDOT says lack of funding is to blame (low traffic volumes are probably also a contributor)
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/08/15/minnesotas-last-stretch-of-unpaved-state-highway-will-get-a-little-longer?fbclid=IwAR2OoNUsWuml0HM31wKbAYqZzYFjkhzXynVvrPaRcxjGCpmld36N89nE7yY
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/news/2021/08/13-d6-hwy74.html
A portion of MN 1 is closed due to a wildfire in rural Lake County, which has also closed part of Lake CSAH 2, so anyone looking to go from Ely to Grand Marais will have to go all the way around through Duluth.
The new(ish) US 53 high bridge in Virginia was officially renamed the Tom Rukavina Memorial Bridge after the late powerful Iron Range state house representative (with lots of jokes from the assembled guests about the height of the bridge comparing to his own short stature).
https://www.wdio.com/news/bridge-dedication-tom-rukavina-ceremony-range/6211994/?cat=10335&fbclid=IwAR0qpXyiE-WDQXwHA-IgdMfWvrog1XoCM3Co99IPJFnu9WM7_AB3fdUVKlc
Ugh, MnDOT joined the states running traffic death counters on VMS.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 30, 2021, 05:03:37 PM
Ugh, MnDOT joined the states running traffic death counters on VMS.
Why is this a bad thing?
I was driving from Winona to La Crosse on Hwy 14/61, and the SB exit to CR 12/CR 101 in Dakota is signed as EXIT 9.
^ A handful of exit number signs have popped up on non-Interstates besides US 52 in Rochester in recent years. I just got home from a 2 week trip to Minnesota where they could also be seen on MN 62, US 61, and US 169 and possibly others (I didn't go on every freeway).
Also US-212 within the beltway and the rest of MN-610 have been numbered.
Quote from: Trademark on August 30, 2021, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 30, 2021, 05:03:37 PM
Ugh, MnDOT joined the states running traffic death counters on VMS.
Why is this a bad thing?
Is there a list of states that do this? I know Ohio did it since a long time ago, but unsure about the other states.
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2021, 11:09:52 PM
^ A handful of exit number signs have popped up on non-Interstates besides US 52 in Rochester in recent years. I just got home from a 2 week trip to Minnesota where they could also be seen on MN 62, US 61, and US 169 and possibly others (I didn't go on every freeway).
I wonder if this is going to be the new standard going forward. Like will the Manning Ave exit get a number.
Quote from: Trademark on September 03, 2021, 09:24:09 AM
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2021, 11:09:52 PM
^ A handful of exit number signs have popped up on non-Interstates besides US 52 in Rochester in recent years. I just got home from a 2 week trip to Minnesota where they could also be seen on MN 62, US 61, and US 169 and possibly others (I didn't go on every freeway).
I wonder if this is going to be the new standard going forward. Like will the Manning Ave exit get a number.
I thought the practice was recently mandated nationwide.
I was recently in the twin cities and noticed that nearly all of the MN state routes are arterial expressways with high speed limits that bypass cities, very nice feature I must say. Is it like this throughout the whole state or just the twin cities area?
Quote from: kphoger on September 03, 2021, 01:18:01 PMI thought the practice [exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways] was recently mandated nationwide.
It was, in
MUTCD 2009. It was reported several years ago that FHWA was not aggressively enforcing this mandate, and many states (including Kansas and Missouri) have taken no steps to comply. I don't know if FHWA's posture has changed.
Of Minnesota's neighbor states, Iowa and Wisconsin both have exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways as well as a significant mileage of such roads, while the Dakotas have neither.
They're not in a rush to go out and add them to existing signs, but as signs need replacement they're adding exit numbers as standard.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 04, 2021, 12:04:17 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 03, 2021, 01:18:01 PMI thought the practice [exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways] was recently mandated nationwide.
It was, in MUTCD 2009. It was reported several years ago that FHWA was not aggressively enforcing this mandate, and many states (including Kansas and Missouri) have taken no steps to comply. I don't know if FHWA's posture has changed.
Of Minnesota's neighbor states, Iowa and Wisconsin both have exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways as well as a significant mileage of such roads, while the Dakotas have neither.
Did that statement in the MUTCD also say that the exit numbers have to be state mileage based, instead of county mileage? Asking it because on some non-interstate freeways in Ohio (specifically US 33 Athens), the state used county-based mileage for exit numbers, and later switched over to state-based exit numbers a few years ago.
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 05, 2021, 01:22:44 PMDid that statement in the MUTCD also say that the exit numbers have to be state mileage based, instead of county mileage? Asking it because on some non-interstate freeways in Ohio (specifically US 33 Athens), the state used county-based mileage for exit numbers, and later switched over to state-based exit numbers a few years ago.
Yes, but with some caveats. § 2E.31 says that the "reference location sign method shall be used" (i.e., exit numbering must be distance-based, not sequential) for all freeways (not just Interstates). § 2H.05 (spelling out how reference location signing works) says that "distance numbering shall be continuous for each route within a State, except where overlaps occur." However, it also says that zero distance "should" be at the south or west state line. Because this is a "should" statement (guidance) rather than a "shall" statement (standard), the following are permitted:
* Routes starting at a milepost other than zero (the basis for Arizona's system)
* Routes with milepointing in opposite sense to the Interstates (the norm for north-south non-Interstates in Texas; also, north-south routes that extend all the way to the north end of the Texas panhandle start with mileposts of 10 or slightly above, as a 10-mile offset is built into the Texas system)
I also don't think there is language that requires that the English mile be used as the unit for location reference signing, so I-19 in Arizona is compliant despite being kilometerposted.
Some state DOTs have put effort into complying with § 2E.31, while others have chased pockets of convenience, e.g. Illinois DOT adding exit numbers to SR 6 in Peoria since it has no extent outside Peoria County (meaning county mileage is also state mileage) but not other freeways like US 34 near Galesburg, or NYSDOT adopting a gradual route-by-route approach so that I-81 gets distance-based exit numbers while the Thruway, Adirondack Northway, and other major routes keep sequential numbering.
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2021, 11:09:52 PM
^ A handful of exit number signs have popped up on non-Interstates besides US 52 in Rochester in recent years. I just got home from a 2 week trip to Minnesota where they could also be seen on MN 62, US 61, and US 169 and possibly others (I didn't go on every freeway).
US 52 between 94 and 494 just got them this summer. A couple isolated left exits were upgraded with them while the rest of the freeway still lacks them, such as US 10 eastbound at I-35W in Blaine, the MN 62 examples at I-35W in Minneapolis you mentioned, and US 52 northbound at the MN 55 split in Inver Grove (the rest of 52 between 494 and 55 still lacks them as of my last drive through there).
MnDOT will host a street fair in Uptown this Sunday to celebrate the end of major construction on I-35W between Crosstown and 94.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/35w94/meetings.html?fbclid=IwAR0autnx6OXS-kl6vPlkrAo5swIHLBAkSDK7AGzYQaCxxRnxDSX2X5LzRQk
^ So I'm guessing the Orange Line BRT will launch shortly after opening... Looking through the virtual tour of I-35W (https://tour.35wat94.com/), I'm sort of surprised they're not skimping on transit and pedestrian/bike infrastructure in a major freeway project. Especially looking at the Lake Street BRT station.
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 06, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
^ So I'm guessing the Orange Line BRT will launch shortly after opening... Looking through the virtual tour of I-35W (https://tour.35wat94.com/), I'm sort of surprised they're not skimping on transit and pedestrian/bike infrastructure in a major freeway project. Especially looking at the Lake Street BRT station.
The Met Council, MnDOT, and the Minneapolis/St. Paul city governments have been pretty conscious about integrating and expanding transit and bike pathways into existing roadways as well as heavy investment in new bike-only routes over the last 10-15 years. I think it's one reason MSP has had somewhat more muted urbanist resistance to major freeway projects compared to other major cities in recent years.
There's more than that. Minnesota has a rather stringent municipal consent law. To oversimplify, local jurisdictions have de facto veto power over most MnDOT road projects. While MnDOT can certainly bull their way through in some ways (in particular with Interstate projects, though they're required by law to provide written justification for such), municipalities that are dead set on stopping or modifying projects in their jurisdiction generally have the power to do so. In this case, since the project was entirely within Minneapolis, the city had considerable sway about elements of the project
As an example of municipal consent, there's a reason why what is now US 169 between I-494 and the Minnesota River was initially built with intersections instead of 2 of the current interchanges. Only later, after the intersections became traffic- and crash-prone, did Eden Prairie finally accept the construction of interchanges.
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 06, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
^ So I'm guessing the Orange Line BRT will launch shortly after opening... Looking through the virtual tour of I-35W (https://tour.35wat94.com/), I'm sort of surprised they're not skimping on transit and pedestrian/bike infrastructure in a major freeway project. Especially looking at the Lake Street BRT station.
The orange line is gonna launch in December.
It's over at last. All ramps between 35W and 94 are open, and all exits from 35W into south Minneapolis are also open after years being closed. That sucked when the only exit into all of South Minneapolis was the 46th St exit (or 60th St southbound only).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 10, 2021, 07:49:54 PM
It's over at last. All ramps between 35W and 94 are open, and all exits from 35W into south Minneapolis are also open after years being closed. That sucked when the only exit into all of South Minneapolis was the 46th St exit (or 60th St southbound only).
As of last night the exits for lake and 28th are still closed. But I'm sure it won't be for long
Today's Star Tribune has an article about how Blaine is pushing for highway 65 to be upgraded, and wants funds for the upgrades to be in next year's bonding bill. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/blaine-courts-money-to-improve-traffic-flow-on-hwy-65/600099537/
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on September 22, 2021, 04:32:01 AM
Today's Star Tribune has an article about how Blaine is pushing for highway 65 to be upgraded, and wants funds for the upgrades to be in next year's bonding bill. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/blaine-courts-money-to-improve-traffic-flow-on-hwy-65/600099537/
In an ideal world, 65 is made freeway from 694 to CSAH 14/Main St. But it especially needs overhauling between the two 10 junctions from Osborne Rd to 99th. An interchange at 109th would be gravy because of the NSC traffic.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 22, 2021, 02:54:25 PM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on September 22, 2021, 04:32:01 AM
Today's Star Tribune has an article about how Blaine is pushing for highway 65 to be upgraded, and wants funds for the upgrades to be in next year's bonding bill. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/blaine-courts-money-to-improve-traffic-flow-on-hwy-65/600099537/
In an ideal world, 65 is made freeway from 694 to CSAH 14/Main St. But it especially needs overhauling between the two 10 junctions from Osborne Rd to 99th. An interchange at 109th would be gravy because of the NSC traffic.
Alas, this is not an ideal world. Extra turn lanes were added around a year ago to the intersection with 81st Ave when the HyVee development went in.
Today's Pioneer Press has an article about how crashes have gone up sharply since the new US 52 bridge in St Paul opened, and MnDoT studies to make the bridge safer:
https://www.twincities.com/2021/09/26/yes-u-s-52-north-at-lafayette-bridge-is-always-a-mess-mndot-has-a-plan/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=fb-PioneerPress&fbclid=IwAR3OB207LWyNpUZpJshih-5yJG6wMA8uHqe9KBB_FyO8iuUL8rA06fGRjb0
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on September 27, 2021, 08:20:52 AM
Today's Pioneer Press has an article about how crashes have gone up sharply since the new US 52 bridge in St Paul opened, and MnDoT studies to make the bridge safer:
https://www.twincities.com/2021/09/26/yes-u-s-52-north-at-lafayette-bridge-is-always-a-mess-mndot-has-a-plan/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=fb-PioneerPress&fbclid=IwAR3OB207LWyNpUZpJshih-5yJG6wMA8uHqe9KBB_FyO8iuUL8rA06fGRjb0
I agree with the basic principle that the signage for the upcoming split is inadequate. You have no idea what lane you need to be in for what movement until you're on the bridge itself, and it's counterintuitive for most drivers going northbound to think they might need to be in the *left lane* to go *east* on 94. Honestly, I would put lane signage in at Plato and at Concord to warn people. EAST 94/10 LEFT LANE, WEST 94/10 - TO 35E and MN 5/7TH ST RIGHT LANE
Today was also planned to be the day that southbound I-35 is temporarily relocated onto what was its frontage road of Lower Michigan St in Duluth. I hope to get up there Wednesday for fall color viewing if I wake up early enough and check that out too.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 27, 2021, 04:51:56 PM
Today was also planned to be the day that southbound I-35 is temporarily relocated onto what was its frontage road of Lower Michigan St in Duluth. I hope to get up there Wednesday for fall color viewing if I wake up early enough and check that out too.
I did get to drive it. It's interesting if you can drive it before the old highway is torn down because it gives a nice view of the underside of the old elevated highway. The speed limit is only 40 MPH through this zone.
I noticed some of the temporary I-35W detour congestion measures such as restriping I-394 to be four lanes westbound from 94 to 100 and the auxiliary lane on westbound MN 62 from Valley View Road to northbound MN 100 are now gone. I didn't realize these were their purpose until they were removed.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 07, 2021, 01:04:17 PM
I noticed some of the temporary I-35W detour congestion measures such as restriping I-394 to be four lanes westbound from 94 to 100 and the auxiliary lane on westbound MN 62 from Valley View Road to northbound MN 100 are now gone. I didn't realize these were their purpose until they were removed.
I can understand the 394 one....but the aux lane on MN-62's been needed long before the I-35W construction.
Quote from: DJ Particle on October 07, 2021, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 07, 2021, 01:04:17 PM
I noticed some of the temporary I-35W detour congestion measures such as restriping I-394 to be four lanes westbound from 94 to 100 and the auxiliary lane on westbound MN 62 from Valley View Road to northbound MN 100 are now gone. I didn't realize these were their purpose until they were removed.
I can understand the 394 one....but the aux lane on MN-62's been needed long before the I-35W construction.
Yeah, that one annoyed me too because those entry points at France and Valley View are hideous going westbound in the afternoon. That entire stretch from 100 to Penn Avenue badly needs to be rebuilt and updated.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 10, 2021, 11:52:39 PM
Yeah, that one annoyed me too because those entry points at France and Valley View are hideous going westbound in the afternoon. That entire stretch from 100 to Penn Avenue badly needs to be rebuilt and updated.
Judging by the concrete laid back in 2011 near crosstown commons, looks like the long term plan is to triple-barrel the whole stretch.
The speed limit on the Crosstown portion of MN 62 went up to 60 overnight as had been announced in the spring. I'm assuming they were waiting to finish the rebuild between 212 and Shady Oak Road related to he Southwest LRT before raising the limit.
Quote from: DJ Particle on October 07, 2021, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 07, 2021, 01:04:17 PM
I noticed some of the temporary I-35W detour congestion measures such as restriping I-394 to be four lanes westbound from 94 to 100 and the auxiliary lane on westbound MN 62 from Valley View Road to northbound MN 100 are now gone. I didn't realize these were their purpose until they were removed.
I can understand the 394 one....but the aux lane on MN-62's been needed long before the I-35W construction.
MnDOT explained that they reason they removed the lane was because the shoulder it was created out of was not designed to handle traffic long-term, and that they needed to do an EIS if they wanted to keep it permanently which presumably they don't want to or more likely can't fund it.
https://www.startribune.com/here-s-why-mndot-took-away-a-lane-on-hwy-62-in-edina/600111843/?fbclid=IwAR0ifo7rHnpz9T-cjPc1f7i28asX_NfaQSC15yBhhjZ3I-0pdKkjaFBgKIo
They're not wrong. Any permanent lane addition...even if just auxiliary lanes...would require, at a minimum, at least an Environmental Assessment per both state and Federal law.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy7slp-hollywood/index.html
MnDot will be doing a traffic study on hwy 7 between hwy 100 and the Carver county line. Hopefully this can result in freeway between 494 and 100
G50
Quote from: Trademark on November 03, 2021, 08:08:43 PM
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy7slp-hollywood/index.html
MnDot will be doing a traffic study on hwy 7 between hwy 100 and the Carver county line. Hopefully this can result in freeway between 494 and 100
I think the only thing that really needs to happen on that stretch right now is at Blake/Texas in front of Knollwood Mall, which would effectively result in freeway between 100 and 169. There is a lot of weaving traffic hopping between Blake and Texas on 7 because the entrance to Cub Foods is on Texas, so I wish there was a better way to streamline the connection between those two streets so they're not all getting on 7 for one block and weaving around along the way. West of 169, I think the current expressway is adequate for the time being.
Outside of 494 I think an interchange at County 101 would be fantastic.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 03, 2021, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: Trademark on November 03, 2021, 08:08:43 PM
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy7slp-hollywood/index.html
MnDot will be doing a traffic study on hwy 7 between hwy 100 and the Carver county line. Hopefully this can result in freeway between 494 and 100
I think the only thing that really needs to happen on that stretch right now is at Blake/Texas in front of Knollwood Mall, which would effectively result in freeway between 100 and 169. There is a lot of traffic hopping between Blake and Texas on 7 because the entrance to Cub Foods is on Texas, so I wish there was a better way to streamline the connection between those two streets. West of 169, I think the current expressway is adequate for the time being.
Outside of 494 I think an interchange at County 101 would be fantastic.
MnDOT just put in shiny new signal systems along MN 7 at Texas, Blake, and the US 169 ramps. I'm not optimistic about that stretch becoming a freeway in the near future.
Some exciting updates on the (mostly) wrap-up of the I-94 Maple Grove to Clearwater project. Looks like the new Dayton Parkway interchange along I-94 between 101 and 610 opened early this morning. As per MNDOT, the rest of the project is wrapping up with the Rogers to Maple Grove section expected to be substantially complete by next weekend and the segment through Albertville expected to be complete by late November. The remaining work from Clearwater to Monticello is scheduled to be complete in 2022 after design changes and I'm assuming various COVID-related shortages pushed the timeline back a year, but that's been known since the spring.
Also of note on the project page (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/i94-mg-clearwater/index.html) is that the westbound I-94 bridge over CSAH 19 in Albertville (originally scheduled to be replaced this year) has been delayed and is now scheduled to be replaced as part of a larger reconstruction project in 2024. Though I can't find anything officially confirming my suspicions, I suspect that this delay in the bridge replacement means that MNDOT is planning to move forward with expanding the final "unfunded" section of 94 from Albertville through Monticello to six lanes. There's been a pavement reconstruction project programmed for that stretch for quite a few years, but it's been up in the air as to whether or not the reconstruction project would include the six-lane expansion. Again, nothing has been confirmed AFAIK, but I suspect we'll be seeing more information about that project soon.
Quote from: EpicRoadways on November 06, 2021, 03:25:43 PM
Some exciting updates on the (mostly) wrap-up of the I-94 Maple Grove to Clearwater project. Looks like the new Dayton Parkway interchange along I-94 between 101 and 610 opened early this morning. As per MNDOT, the rest of the project is wrapping up with the Rogers to Maple Grove section expected to be substantially complete by next weekend and the segment through Albertville expected to be complete by late November.
I keep peeking at traffic cameras to see if the new BGSs heading eastbound at 494/694 have been placed yet (they have not), because while control city signage isn't great throughout the metro, having no control cities on the old signs at that interchange was particularly egregious and I really hoped they fixed that with the new signs going up.
The ribbon-cutting and celebration of the (mostly) finished US 14 four-lane will take place on Tuesday in Claremont with the new alignment opening to traffic by late in the day.
https://www.postbulletin.com/news/traffic-and-construction/7269030-Grand-opening-for-Highway-14s-new-lanes-is-Tuesday
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 06, 2021, 04:17:25 PM
Quote from: EpicRoadways on November 06, 2021, 03:25:43 PM
Some exciting updates on the (mostly) wrap-up of the I-94 Maple Grove to Clearwater project. Looks like the new Dayton Parkway interchange along I-94 between 101 and 610 opened early this morning. As per MNDOT, the rest of the project is wrapping up with the Rogers to Maple Grove section expected to be substantially complete by next weekend and the segment through Albertville expected to be complete by late November.
I keep peeking at traffic cameras to see if the new BGSs heading eastbound at 494/694 have been placed yet (they have not), because while control city signage isn't great throughout the metro, having no control cities on the old signs at that interchange was particularly egregious and I really hoped they fixed that with the new signs going up.
I will say that the arrow-per-lane signage that was installed at the MN 610 exit is extremely helpful. Speaking of signage, the BGS for the Dayton Parkway interchange has some noticeable extra Green space, possibly because it will be turned up to the county and thus given a number. Same with Maple Grove Parkway at 610, but that's old news. On another note, I was hoping that the "traffic merging from the left" on westbound 94 at 494 would have been fixed, but judging from the markings, it is the same.
Can anyone confirm the exit number for the Dayton Pkwy interchange? Traffic cameras aren't pointed in the right directions to see signage.
Quote from: froggie on November 08, 2021, 11:42:35 AM
Can anyone confirm the exit number for the Dayton Pkwy interchange? Traffic cameras aren't pointed in the right directions to see signage.
Dayton Parkway is Exit 210
Quote from: Roadguy on November 08, 2021, 11:55:08 AM
Dayton Parkway is Exit 210
Thank you.
Quote from: andarcondadont on November 08, 2021, 12:45:24 AMSpeaking of signage, the BGS for the Dayton Parkway interchange has some noticeable extra Green space, possibly because it will be turned up to the county and thus given a number.
A long-standing plan at both the city and county level is to extend CR 117 east of Fletcher Lane (CR 116) to tie into Dayton Pkwy. Theoretically, Dayton Pkwy will become a CR 117 extension at that time.
QuoteSame with Maple Grove Parkway at 610, but that's old news.
Yes, a similar scenario here....will become a CSAH 121 reroute once an extension of Maple Grove Pkwy north of 81 to existing 121 is built.
Quote from: andarcondadont on November 08, 2021, 12:45:24 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 06, 2021, 04:17:25 PM
Quote from: EpicRoadways on November 06, 2021, 03:25:43 PM
Some exciting updates on the (mostly) wrap-up of the I-94 Maple Grove to Clearwater project. Looks like the new Dayton Parkway interchange along I-94 between 101 and 610 opened early this morning. As per MNDOT, the rest of the project is wrapping up with the Rogers to Maple Grove section expected to be substantially complete by next weekend and the segment through Albertville expected to be complete by late November.
I keep peeking at traffic cameras to see if the new BGSs heading eastbound at 494/694 have been placed yet (they have not), because while control city signage isn't great throughout the metro, having no control cities on the old signs at that interchange was particularly egregious and I really hoped they fixed that with the new signs going up.
I will say that the arrow-per-lane signage that was installed at the MN 610 exit is extremely helpful. Speaking of signage, the BGS for the Dayton Parkway interchange has some noticeable extra Green space, possibly because it will be turned up to the county and thus given a number. Same with Maple Grove Parkway at 610, but that's old news. On another note, I was hoping that the "traffic merging from the left" on westbound 94 at 494 would have been fixed, but judging from the markings, it is the same.
I got up there today as one of the new BGSs for the 494/694 split is posted, and they did add Minneapolis/St. Paul to 94/694 East, thankfully. Bloomington is probably important enough that it could have been used as a control city for 494 (which has none, unsurprisingly), but I guess we can't have everything.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 08, 2021, 03:23:31 PM
I got up there today as one of the new BGSs for the 494/694 split is posted, and they did add Minneapolis/St. Paul to 94/694 East, thankfully. Bloomington is probably important enough that it could have been used as a control city for 494 (which has none, unsurprisingly), but I guess we can't have everything.
Minor aside: I'm glad they've finally started signing both Minneapolis
and Saint Paul as control cities. But it does make me wonder... since MNDOT has now proven themselves fully capable of putting two control cities on the same sign, why not bite the bullet and add Fargo along with Saint Cloud to the WB control cities?
Quote from: andarcondadont on November 03, 2021, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 03, 2021, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: Trademark on November 03, 2021, 08:08:43 PM
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy7slp-hollywood/index.html
MnDot will be doing a traffic study on hwy 7 between hwy 100 and the Carver county line. Hopefully this can result in freeway between 494 and 100
I think the only thing that really needs to happen on that stretch right now is at Blake/Texas in front of Knollwood Mall, which would effectively result in freeway between 100 and 169. There is a lot of traffic hopping between Blake and Texas on 7 because the entrance to Cub Foods is on Texas, so I wish there was a better way to streamline the connection between those two streets. West of 169, I think the current expressway is adequate for the time being.
Outside of 494 I think an interchange at County 101 would be fantastic.
MnDOT just put in shiny new signal systems along MN 7 at Texas, Blake, and the US 169 ramps. I'm not optimistic about that stretch becoming a freeway in the near future.
As an SLP resident, I agree that the Texas / Blake stretch of 7 is a real problem. Traffic to / from Blake is going to get heavier when the light rail station opens, and when a high rise residential complex opens on the site of the former Atlas Cold Storage facility on Blake north of the light rail station.
However, I think fixing it could be really expensive, because it would probably require building a service drive on both sides of 7 between 169 and Texas, and building overpasses of 7 at Blake and Texas. On the south side, this would require demolition of the fast food restaurants and Walgreens, and on the north side, it would require demolition of Papa Murphy's, and taking several rows of parking places from the Knollwood mall parking lot.
It would have been a lot easier to build a service drive with interchanges and overpasses ten years ago, before Knollwood was switched from an indoor mall to an outdoor strip mall, because the roadwork could have been done at the same time Knollwood was rebuilt.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on November 09, 2021, 09:01:30 AM
However, I think fixing it could be really expensive, because it would probably require building a service drive on both sides of 7 between 169 and Texas, and building overpasses of 7 at Blake and Texas. On the south side, this would require demolition of the fast food restaurants and Walgreens, and on the north side, it would require demolition of Papa Murphy's, and taking several rows of parking places from the Knollwood mall parking lot.
On the south side I think they could get away with just repurposing Cambridge St as the service drive, maybe tying in to 7 at the currently empty lot where the old Taco Bell was.
Have there been any rumblings about what projects would be advanced with the infrastructure money? I realize there's a lot of wrangling to do at the state legislature (which gives me minimal hope for any agreement on matching money coming quickly) but other states seem to already be dropping their wish lists.
In turnback news, the handover of MN 156 between I-494 and Grand Avenue in South St. Paul appears to be complete, as the MN 156 shields on I-494 BGS as well as the 494/Concord stoplight interchange signage were patched over with Dakota CSAH 56 shields last week. Ground signs still have yet to be changed over.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 16, 2021, 12:33:42 AM
In turnback news, the handover of MN 156 between I-494 and Grand Avenue in South St. Paul appears to be complete, as the MN 156 shields on I-494 BGS as well as the 494/Concord stoplight interchange signage were patched over with Dakota CSAH 56 shields last week. Ground signs still have yet to be changed over.
Should the remainder of MN 156 be turned back sometime later, should we expect the St. Paul portion of that stretch to be maintained by Ramsey County, or by St. Paul?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 15, 2021, 04:37:05 PM
Have there been any rumblings about what projects would be advanced with the infrastructure money? I realize there's a lot of wrangling to do at the state legislature (which gives me minimal hope for any agreement on matching money coming quickly) but other states seem to already be dropping their wish lists.
I haven't heard anything officially (or unofficially, for that matter) but I'd speculate at the very least we'll see more money being dumped into projects already either under construction or planned for the near future but limited in some aspect due to lack of funding. The additional "unfunded phases" of the I-35W/494 interchange rebuild in the south metro and the Twin Ports interchange in Duluth are two explicit examples that MNDOT has touted as being candidates for any additional $$$ coming in. Along with that, the 494/694/94 Fish Lake interchange, the 94 Monticello to Albertville expansion, the various US-52 improvements between Saint Paul and Rochester (maybe we'll finally some freeway sections built out?), the US-10 improvements in the north metro, a full I-90 modernization through Austin, and the MN-252/I-94 Minneapolis rebuild all come to mind as programmed projects that would benefit from some additional funds to really achieve their desired effect. Beyond that, I'd imagine outside of maybe a few other large-scale projects that are escaping me right now it'll mostly go towards spot safety improvements and preservation of existing infrastructure.
Community activists in north Minneapolis are pushing for the removal of MN 55 / Olson Parkway.
https://kstp.com/news/activists-say-getting-rid-of-olson-memorial-highway-could-revitalize-north-minneapolis/6305281/
Although I support making it easier for pedestrians to cross it, I think removing it is total lunacy. Downtown Minneapolis is in dire trouble right now, and the last thing downtown needs is for people making it more difficult to get there from the suburbs.
Given that MnDOT has studied improvements to 394, one prevailing theory is that improvements to 394 means less need for 6 lanes on Olson through North Minneapolis. I question the need for 6 lanes west of 94 even today...and it would not be hard to take one lane each way between Penn and 94 and convert it to a bus only lane which would help out the Route 19 bus and the express buses along 55.
Quote from: froggie on November 18, 2021, 11:25:51 AM
Given that MnDOT has studied improvements to 394, one prevailing theory is that improvements to 394 means less need for 6 lanes on Olson through North Minneapolis. I question the need for 6 lanes west of 94 even today...and it would not be hard to take one lane each way between Penn and 94 and convert it to a bus only lane which would help out the Route 19 bus and the express buses along 55.
I agree with you, Froggie; narrowing it to 4 lanes would be a good compromise.
The alignment of the Blue Line light rail extension hasn't been decided yet, and this will have a big impact on how many lanes are needed on Olson in the future, and even how many buses will be using Olson once the light rail line opens.
I think the future role Olson plays in north Minneapolis' transit patterns should be considered at the same time alignments for light rail are being considered.
Given the currently proposed alternatives for the Blue Line extension, I doubt whatever they decide will change much on Olson Hwy. Metro Transit will still likely run the C Line along Penn Ave, using Olson as the connection between Penn and downtown. You also have the Route 755 limited stop along Olson Hwy. As such, I see no problem with converting the extra lanes east of Penn to bus-only.
Quote from: froggie on November 18, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
Given the currently proposed alternatives for the Blue Line extension, I doubt whatever they decide will change much on Olson Hwy. Metro Transit will still likely run the C Line along Penn Ave, using Olson as the connection between Penn and downtown. You also have the Route 755 limited stop along Olson Hwy. As such, I see no problem with converting the extra lanes east of Penn to bus-only.
I don't see the need for more than 3 lanes on this highway. There is not much traffic on here at all. There is a lot of right of way especially west of Humboldt enough that they could build houses/apartments where this underused highway is today. Or bus lanes. Or a high quality bike connection. But whatever is chosen. There is no justification for 6 lanes.
Fun fact: that extra ROW west of Humboldt was originally intended for an interchange at Penn.
Quote from: froggie on November 18, 2021, 04:08:51 PM
Fun fact: that extra ROW west of Humboldt was originally intended for an interchange at Penn.
I remember seeing that somewhere. It might have been on your website. I got a question for you since I know you know a lot of the history of the area. Was there ever a freeway proposed between 7th street and Broadway? I see how they are kind of in a straight diagonal line with a gap between 7th and Emerson and Broadway and Morgan.
A freeway coming down West Broadway was indeed proposed, but it would have tied directly into the North Loop (cancelled I-335) instead of 7th St.
https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR66/Pages/default.aspx
MnDOT and Dakota County are studying the potential for another interchange along US 52 near Vermillion. Either at CSAH 62, CSAH 66, or somewhere else nearby. They conducted a public outreach summary a couple months ago and found local support for an interchange, though opinion was split between whether it should go at 62 or 66. An Environmental Assessment is expected next year.
Quote from: froggie on November 29, 2021, 05:48:04 PM
https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR66/Pages/default.aspx
MnDOT and Dakota County are studying the potential for another interchange along US 52 near Vermillion. Either at CSAH 62, CSAH 66, or somewhere else nearby. They conducted a public outreach summary a couple months ago and found local support for an interchange, though opinion was split between whether it should go at 62 or 66. An Environmental Assessment is expected next year.
With regards to the County 66 intersection, some farmers with land in one of the corners of that intersection have voiced concerns with regards to an interchange there eating up some of their farmland.
https://sahanjournal.com/climate/hmong-american-farmers-association-dakota-county-highway-52/
Quote from: froggie on November 29, 2021, 05:48:04 PM
https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR66/Pages/default.aspx
MnDOT and Dakota County are studying the potential for another interchange along US 52 near Vermillion. Either at CSAH 62, CSAH 66, or somewhere else nearby. They conducted a public outreach summary a couple months ago and found local support for an interchange, though opinion was split between whether it should go at 62 or 66. An Environmental Assessment is expected next year.
Interesting. I've been through that area quite a bit traveling to/from the Lakeville area and I'd love to see US 52 upgraded to full freeway through there. Having used both Co 46 and MN 50 to connect to US 52, I've come to prefer Co 46 even though it's generally a bit longer time- and distance-wise. The MN 50 route goes right through Farmington and that can be a pain even at the off-peak times.
With that said, I think Co 66 is the fairly obvious choice for an interchange location. I don't see anything that a Co 62 interchange offers that a Co 66 interchange doesn't, except slightly better access to Vermillion, but that would still be accommodated by existing movements at Co 62. Suburban growth in Farmington/Lakeville/Apple Valley means that almost all traffic accessing US 52 in the area would be coming from the west (traffic coming from Hastings would enter at Hampton), and a Co 62 interchange doesn't do nearly enough IMO to provide an alternate to going right through Farmington.
The only case for Co 62 would be if 190th St. was completed in full, but it looks like there's gaps east of MN 3 and between Blaine Ave and Clayton Ave.
There's a couple more things going for 62: proximity to the Vermillion River at 66 means an interchange at 62 would be easier to build. There are also the aforementioned property concerns at 66 which appear to be louder than at 62.
If the interchange is completed would that mean that besides the 55 to 52 south movements would it be fully freeway to Cannon Falls And after the projects in Goodhue County are complete, how much of US-52 would still need to be upgraded to a freeway?
As someone familiar with the Twin Cities area, I'm interested to see what new light rail comes through. Like, for example, what about the extension of the Northstar Link (or whatever it's called) from Elk River up to St. Cloud, like I've heard rumors about? Also, I think it would be neat to run a line down the median of 35W (much like the train on the Kennedy in Chicago), linking up to the already-existing bus station near Lakeville. Just a thought.
Northstar has been held up beyond Big Lake for over a decade by politicians who are trying to discourage the use of the service in the hopes of getting it scrapped completely. Between this and the plummet in the already flimsy ridership during the virus did leave a time of uncertainty of keeping Northstar operating at this year's legislature, but funding to continue the existing route was ultimately approved in the state budget.
Quote from: Trademark on November 30, 2021, 11:51:56 AM
If the interchange is completed would that mean that besides the 55 to 52 south movements would it be fully freeway to Cannon Falls And after the projects in Goodhue County are complete, how much of US-52 would still need to be upgraded to a freeway?
It depends on the design of the 66 or 62 interchange, and if they choose to build access roads and overpass/close the intersection that isn't going to be upgraded. If they do close these two access points, there are still 31 at-grade intersections and farm access points in Dakota County, not to mention the railroad crossing.
And it isn't even a full freeway up to that 55 intersection in the southbound lanes; one at-grade was left on Inver Grove Trail that should have been cul-de-saced when improvements were being made in the area a decade ago.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on November 30, 2021, 01:14:17 PM
As someone familiar with the Twin Cities area, I'm interested to see what new light rail comes through. Like, for example, what about the extension of the Northstar Link (or whatever it's called) from Elk River up to St. Cloud, like I've heard rumors about? Also, I think it would be neat to run a line down the median of 35W (much like the train on the Kennedy in Chicago), linking up to the already-existing bus station near Lakeville. Just a thought.
Light rail was proposed in the 90s for 35w. But it was rejected because MNDot didn't have enough money to do it all at once. They are launching a BRT service down to Burnsville though (Orange Line).
Also the Southwest corridor (Green Line extension) from Minneapolis to Eden Prairie thru Hopkins is currently under construction and the Bottineau corridor (Blue Line extension) from Minneapolis to Brooklyn Park thru Robbinsdale and Crystal should have a route finalized in the spring according to someone I talked to on the project.
There is also the Riverview corridor streetcar running from Mall of America to Downtown St. Paul. But this will most likely include mixed traffic segments and possibly single traffic segments which will hold back the potential of this project and won't get completed til at least 2035.
Other then that it's a lot of BRT including the Gold line from St. Paul to Woodbury next to I-94. The Purple Line from St. Paul to White Bear Lake thru Maplewood Mall. And a bunch of rapid bus projects.
Other proposed BRT includes 94 thru North Minneapolis either to 694 and Maple Grove or up 252 and 610 to Fridley. As well as 55 to Plymouth. 169 from Minneapolis to Shakopee and 36 from Minneapolis to Maplewood.
Quote from: Trademark on November 30, 2021, 05:43:53 PM
Other proposed BRT includes 94 thru North Minneapolis either to 694 and Maple Grove or up 252 and 610 to Fridley. As well as 55 to Plymouth. 169 from Minneapolis to Shakopee and 36 from Minneapolis to Maplewood.
Why would the Met Council want 55 as a BRT route? To my knowledge they have no plans of ever making 55 from somewhere west of 494 to 169/100 a freeway, do they?
Quote from: webny99 on November 29, 2021, 07:58:29 PM
The only case for Co 62 would be if 190th St. was completed in full, but it looks like there's gaps east of MN 3 and between Blaine Ave and Clayton Ave.
I don't know if the U of M would throw a fit over losing that little bit of land at UMore Park, but I guess it's been done before when they extended county 46.
There are plans in the works to extend county 60 to the highway 3 roundabout at 190th, but nothing to finish the roadway where it would edge out UMore Park. If the interchange were built at 62, I could see it being considered.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 30, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Trademark on November 30, 2021, 05:43:53 PM
Other proposed BRT includes 94 thru North Minneapolis either to 694 and Maple Grove or up 252 and 610 to Fridley. As well as 55 to Plymouth. 169 from Minneapolis to Shakopee and 36 from Minneapolis to Maplewood.
Why would the Met Council want 55 as a BRT route? To my knowledge they have no plans of ever making 55 from somewhere west of 494 to 169/100 a freeway, do they?
https://dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy55plymouthtorockford/about.html
This study that was completed in 2009 was the last rumblings that I know of improving 55 to a freeway. According to this it would be from 116 to 494. But I highly doubt that this study will ever move forward. With 55 BRT it will most likely be signal preemption / priority and bus lanes. But i also question the need for a BRT on this corridor. Personally I think they should use 394 instead to connect to West End, General Mills, redevelopment of Ridgedale, and Wayzata, which would probably be enough to justify Light Rail on that stretch.
The 55 BRT is also very questionable to ever get built. IIRC it was Plymouth that financed a study of BRT on 55, not the Met Council.
Also according to the planning documents of 169 BRT. They will likely use 55 going into downtown.
Quote from: froggie on November 30, 2021, 10:39:00 AM
There's a couple more things going for 62: proximity to the Vermillion River at 66 means an interchange at 62 would be easier to build. There are also the aforementioned property concerns at 66 which appear to be louder than at 62.
Would either interchange be a diamond configuration, or would an interchange at 66 have to be a different design?
That hasn't been determined yet and will likely be part of the current study.
Concepts I've seen from ~20 years ago indicated either a folded diamond to the south, or realigning 66 to the south to fit a standard diamond. Both concepts were to avoid impacts to the Vermillion River.
Quote from: Trademark on December 01, 2021, 10:49:24 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 30, 2021, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Trademark on November 30, 2021, 05:43:53 PM
Other proposed BRT includes 94 thru North Minneapolis either to 694 and Maple Grove or up 252 and 610 to Fridley. As well as 55 to Plymouth. 169 from Minneapolis to Shakopee and 36 from Minneapolis to Maplewood.
Why would the Met Council want 55 as a BRT route? To my knowledge they have no plans of ever making 55 from somewhere west of 494 to 169/100 a freeway, do they?
https://dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy55plymouthtorockford/about.html
This study that was completed in 2009 was the last rumblings that I know of improving 55 to a freeway. According to this it would be from 116 to 494. But I highly doubt that this study will ever move forward. With 55 BRT it will most likely be signal preemption / priority and bus lanes. But i also question the need for a BRT on this corridor. Personally I think they should use 394 instead to connect to West End, General Mills, redevelopment of Ridgedale, and Wayzata, which would probably be enough to justify Light Rail on that stretch.
The 55 BRT is also very questionable to ever get built. IIRC it was Plymouth that financed a study of BRT on 55, not the Met Council.
Also according to the planning documents of 169 BRT. They will likely use 55 going into downtown.
Too much crap has been built up along 55 between 494 and CSAH 9/24 for the freeway idea to happen anyway. Which sucks because it's an awful drive at rush between 494 and 101.
^ I would disagree. Most of the adjacent land east of 101 was already built up when MnDOT did their study, so it's already been addressed.
If it doesn't happen, it's going to be because of changing priorities and/or lack of funding. Not because the land is too developed.
Quote from: froggie on December 02, 2021, 08:33:32 PM
^ I would disagree. Most of the adjacent land east of 101 was already built up when MnDOT did their study, so it's already been addressed.
If it doesn't happen, it's going to be because of changing priorities and/or lack of funding. Not because the land is too developed.
I think 252 and 65 north of 10 will be the last freeways built in the metro area.
I'm not even convinced that 65 will happen. 36 between 694 and Stillwater has a higher chance of happening.
Quote from: froggie on December 02, 2021, 11:06:35 PM
I'm not even convinced that 65 will happen. 36 between 694 and Stillwater has a higher chance of happening.
True. I forgot about that one.
Quote from: webny99 on November 29, 2021, 07:58:29 PM
Quote from: froggie on November 29, 2021, 05:48:04 PM
https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR66/Pages/default.aspx
MnDOT and Dakota County are studying the potential for another interchange along US 52 near Vermillion. Either at CSAH 62, CSAH 66, or somewhere else nearby. They conducted a public outreach summary a couple months ago and found local support for an interchange, though opinion was split between whether it should go at 62 or 66. An Environmental Assessment is expected next year.
Interesting. I've been through that area quite a bit traveling to/from the Lakeville area and I'd love to see US 52 upgraded to full freeway through there. Having used both Co 46 and MN 50 to connect to US 52, I've come to prefer Co 46 even though it's generally a bit longer time- and distance-wise. The MN 50 route goes right through Farmington and that can be a pain even at the off-peak times.
With that said, I think Co 66 is the fairly obvious choice for an interchange location. I don't see anything that a Co 62 interchange offers that a Co 66 interchange doesn't, except slightly better access to Vermillion, but that would still be accommodated by existing movements at Co 62. Suburban growth in Farmington/Lakeville/Apple Valley means that almost all traffic accessing US 52 in the area would be coming from the west (traffic coming from Hastings would enter at Hampton), and a Co 62 interchange doesn't do nearly enough IMO to provide an alternate to going right through Farmington.
The only case for Co 62 would be if 190th St. was completed in full, but it looks like there's gaps east of MN 3 and between Blaine Ave and Clayton Ave.
Sorry, but CSAH 66 is not the obvious choice.
Do people realize that the HAFA farms at 200th Street provide a huge percentage of the produce consumed at the Twin Cities’ farmers’ markets? This would affect 100,000s of people. These aren’t another bunch of cornfields. There is also the social implications of taking away a primary income source for a disadvantaged community. I imagine that that will have to be reviewed extensively under social implications in any sort of environmental assessment.
Secondly, the Vermillion River is recognized as having habitat suitable for brown trout. There is no layout at 200th Street that will not impact the river or its immediate watershed.
From a traffic circulation perspective, County 66 east of US 52 curves to the north to join County 62 before it enters Vermillion. So moving the interchange north to County 62 doesn’t really have any impacts to destinations east of 52. West of 52, County 66 could be diverted north on either Donnelly or Clayton Avenue and then curve to the east at 190th St. Currently the worst traffic issues of the two intersections on US 52 are created by traffic turning northbound from County 62. In true Minnesota fashion, people pull right out in front of northbound traffic on 52 with very little regard for the impact they create. Traffic needs to enter that intersection with a merging movement into 52, instead of a stop sign. This is the highest volume turning movement now of either intersection.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on December 03, 2021, 06:26:26 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 29, 2021, 07:58:29 PM
Quote from: froggie on November 29, 2021, 05:48:04 PM
https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR66/Pages/default.aspx
MnDOT and Dakota County are studying the potential for another interchange along US 52 near Vermillion. Either at CSAH 62, CSAH 66, or somewhere else nearby. They conducted a public outreach summary a couple months ago and found local support for an interchange, though opinion was split between whether it should go at 62 or 66. An Environmental Assessment is expected next year.
Interesting. I've been through that area quite a bit traveling to/from the Lakeville area and I'd love to see US 52 upgraded to full freeway through there. Having used both Co 46 and MN 50 to connect to US 52, I've come to prefer Co 46 even though it's generally a bit longer time- and distance-wise. The MN 50 route goes right through Farmington and that can be a pain even at the off-peak times.
With that said, I think Co 66 is the fairly obvious choice for an interchange location. I don't see anything that a Co 62 interchange offers that a Co 66 interchange doesn't, except slightly better access to Vermillion, but that would still be accommodated by existing movements at Co 62. Suburban growth in Farmington/Lakeville/Apple Valley means that almost all traffic accessing US 52 in the area would be coming from the west (traffic coming from Hastings would enter at Hampton), and a Co 62 interchange doesn't do nearly enough IMO to provide an alternate to going right through Farmington.
The only case for Co 62 would be if 190th St. was completed in full, but it looks like there's gaps east of MN 3 and between Blaine Ave and Clayton Ave.
Sorry, but CSAH 66 is not the obvious choice.
Do people realize that the HAFA farms at 200th Street provide a huge percentage of the produce consumed at the Twin Cities' farmers' markets? This would affect 100,000s of people. These aren't another bunch of cornfields. There is also the social implications of taking away a primary income source for a disadvantaged community. I imagine that that will have to be reviewed extensively under social implications in any sort of environmental assessment.
Sounds like an exaggeration to me in terms of how many people rely upon the farmers markets or how much food is produced by the farms.
That may be an exaggeration (though the Minneapolis Farmers Market is not small by any means), but he is not wrong in pointing out the disadvantaged community (in this case, the Hmong) who own land on one corner of 52/66 that would be impacted by an interchange there.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on December 03, 2021, 06:26:26 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 29, 2021, 07:58:29 PM
With that said, I think Co 66 is the fairly obvious choice for an interchange location. I don't see anything that a Co 62 interchange offers that a Co 66 interchange doesn't, except slightly better access to Vermillion, but that would still be accommodated by existing movements at Co 62. Suburban growth in Farmington/Lakeville/Apple Valley means that almost all traffic accessing US 52 in the area would be coming from the west (traffic coming from Hastings would enter at Hampton), and a Co 62 interchange doesn't do nearly enough IMO to provide an alternate to going right through Farmington.
The only case for Co 62 would be if 190th St. was completed in full, but it looks like there's gaps east of MN 3 and between Blaine Ave and Clayton Ave.
Sorry, but CSAH 66 is not the obvious choice.
Do people realize that the HAFA farms at 200th Street provide a huge percentage of the produce consumed at the Twin Cities' farmers' markets? This would affect 100,000s of people. These aren't another bunch of cornfields. There is also the social implications of taking away a primary income source for a disadvantaged community. I imagine that that will have to be reviewed extensively under social implications in any sort of environmental assessment.
It's a single interchange. There will be impacts, but it's not like miles of new freeway construction that would eliminate all the crop-producing fields for miles. It's just four new ramps that will likely be aligned to create the least possible impact wherever they're located.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on December 03, 2021, 06:26:26 AM
From a traffic circulation perspective, County 66 east of US 52 curves to the north to join County 62 before it enters Vermillion. So moving the interchange north to County 62 doesn't really have any impacts to destinations east of 52. West of 52, County 66 could be diverted north on either Donnelly or Clayton Avenue and then curve to the east at 190th St. Currently the worst traffic issues of the two intersections on US 52 are created by traffic turning northbound from County 62. In true Minnesota fashion, people pull right out in front of northbound traffic on 52 with very little regard for the impact they create. Traffic needs to enter that intersection with a merging movement into 52, instead of a stop sign. This is the highest volume turning movement now of either intersection.
If you're talking about re-routing Co 66 north along Donnelly Ave to meet Co 62, that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62. On a regional level, that would also do nothing to address the primary traffic movement in the area, which is from Lakeville/Farmington to US 52
south. That traffic isn't going to backtrack 1 mile just to access US 52 at an interchange; they'll just continue to use Co 66 even if there's no interchange.
The Co 66 to US 52 south movement may not be as busy as Co 62 to US 52 north right now, but that's because most traffic is currently using MN 50. Much of that traffic could use Co 66 if there was an interchange, so I would argue that Co 66 to US 52 south is not only a much more important movement regionally and in terms of the purpose of the new interchange, it's also only going to become more important over time given the suburban growth. Vermillion has a population of under 500. Lakeville and Farmington have a combined population of almost 90,000. To say there's no comparison would be an understatement, which is why I maintain that the only way Co 62 makes sense is if the gaps in 190th St are completed, allowing it to be used for through traffic.
Quote
Secondly, the Vermillion River is recognized as having habitat suitable for brown trout. There is no layout at 200th Street that will not impact the river or its immediate watershed.
This could potentially be a bigger issue than the Hmong farm. Environmental issues can delay if not outright stop highway upgrades (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=654.0). Also, it would not be difficult to upgrade Donnelly Ave between 190th and 200th to improve access for Co 66 to the interchange.
Quote from: skluth on December 03, 2021, 12:14:07 PM
Also, it would not be difficult to upgrade Donnelly Ave between 190th and 200th to improve access for Co 66 to the interchange.
It wouldn't be difficult, but it also wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, as per my post above:
Quote from: webny99 on December 03, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
If you're talking about re-routing Co 66 north along Donnelly Ave to meet Co 62, that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62. On a regional level, that would also do nothing to address the primary traffic movement in the area, which is from Lakeville/Farmington to US 52 south. That traffic isn't going to backtrack 1 mile just to access US 52 at an interchange; they'll just continue to use Co 66 even if there's no interchange.
Quote
If you're talking about re-routing Co 66 north along Donnelly Ave to meet Co 62, that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62. On a regional level, that would also do nothing to address the primary traffic movement in the area, which is from Lakeville/Farmington to US 52 south. That traffic isn't going to backtrack 1 mile just to access US 52 at an interchange; they'll just continue to use Co 66 even if there's no interchange.
Then my proposal is to remove all Co 66 access to US 52.
Quote from: webny99 on December 03, 2021, 12:17:19 PM
Quote from: skluth on December 03, 2021, 12:14:07 PM
Also, it would not be difficult to upgrade Donnelly Ave between 190th and 200th to improve access for Co 66 to the interchange.
It wouldn't be difficult, but it also wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, as per my post above:
I don't agree with your arguments above. There's less room for a diamond at Co 66 than Co 62; the Co 62 crossing is surrounded by farmland while there is an environmentally-sensitive stream on the NW corner of the Co 66 crossing and a business (yes, it's barely standing) on the NE corner. You combine Lakeville and Farmington in your argument when most of the population is in Lakeville and I-35 already runs through Lakeville. Farmington, the community most affected is <25K. It seems to me that you are going out of your way to rationalize an interchange at Co 66. And your statement
that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62 is completely unjustified as the intersection is completely surrounded by acres of farmland.
I think an interchange at Co 62 that looks like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4151593,-90.3878201,15.04z/data=!5m1!1e1?hl=en) would be better for more people than an interchange for Farmington. There would be a direct connection to Donnelly Ave like the Vogel Road connection in my example. Our secondary office in St Louis was on Vogel Road so I used this interchange often and it worked quite well for Vogel Road traffic.
Quote from: skluth on December 03, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
There's less room for a diamond at Co 66 than Co 62
That's true as it currently stands, but part of the case for a Co 62 interchange is that it could be a standard diamond, while Co 66 would have to be modified because of the river. But an improved connection to Donnelly Ave (to serve phantom traffic IMO) would negate that, as either Donnelly Ave would have to be realigned or the interchange would have to be modified in some way:
Quote from: skluth on December 03, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
And your statement that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62 is completely unjustified as the intersection is completely surrounded by acres of farmland.
Again, that was in response to the premise of Co 66 being routed north along an improved Donnelly Ave to meet Co 62. But the current Donnelly Ave/Co 62 intersection is too close to US 52 to allow for a diamond interchange at Co 62/US 52 without modification.
Quote from: skluth on December 03, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
You combine Lakeville and Farmington in your argument when most of the population is in Lakeville and I-35 already runs through Lakeville. Farmington, the community most affected is <25K. It seems to me that you are going out of your way to rationalize an interchange at Co 66.
I-35 has nothing to do with it. The fact is that the southern MSP suburbs (Farmington/Lakeville/Apple Valley) are by far the largest population center in the area, and the vast majority of regional medium- and long-distance traffic (on the local roads like Co 66, not on US 52 itself) are connecting to US 52 southbound to get to Rochester, MN, I-90, and beyond. I've made the connection myself close to a dozen times, and I would rank improved safety along the US 52 corridor and better connectivity between Farmington and US 52 as the top two priorities of the project, and I suspect MnDOT would agree.
Quote from: skluth on December 03, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
I think an interchange at Co 62 that looks like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4151593,-90.3878201,15.04z/data=!5m1!1e1?hl=en) would be better for more people than an interchange for Farmington. There would be a direct connection to Donnelly Ave like the Vogel Road connection in my example.
That would also be a more costly interchange to build, requiring an additional overpass and an additional ramp. Donnelly Ave is also currently unpaved and likely has a very low AADT, and that will probably continue to be the case even if it's improved, so my guess is that it wouldn't be worth the additional cost.
Quote from: webny99 on December 03, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
If you're talking about re-routing Co 66 north along Donnelly Ave to meet Co 62, that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62. On a regional level, that would also do nothing to address the primary traffic movement in the area, which is from Lakeville/Farmington to US 52 south. That traffic isn't going to backtrack 1 mile just to access US 52 at an interchange; they'll just continue to use Co 66 even if there's no interchange.
If MN/DOT and Dakota County aren't going to half-ass the project, the other intersection should be replaced with an overpass or closed anyway. And there are already plans to finish 190th from highway 3 to the Biscayne Avenue intersection as an extension of county 60. I bet they would look into finishing 190th all the way if an interchange was built there, since a bonus would be that the traffic would have access to highway 3 via a roundabout and not the busy 66/3 intersection.
It would be pretty cool to see county 62 absorbed into the planned county 60 projects, too. It'd create another (almost) cross-county highway.
Not sure how Farmington came into this, but if we're talking about Rochester-Farmington/Lakeville traffic, we're talking about County 46 and MN 50, not County 62 or 66.
Quote from: skluth on December 03, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
I think an interchange at Co 62 that looks like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4151593,-90.3878201,15.04z/data=!5m1!1e1?hl=en) would be better for more people than an interchange for Farmington. There would be a direct connection to Donnelly Ave like the Vogel Road connection in my example. Our secondary office in St Louis was on Vogel Road so I used this interchange often and it worked quite well for Vogel Road traffic.
That's way overkill for the amount of traffic that uses either road. No doubt Donnelly Avenue would be paved if an interchange were built at 62, but not that many people use the county 66 intersection in the first place, and certainly not enough looking to travel north. There's a reason the reduced-conflict intersections were good enough a decade ago.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 03, 2021, 01:43:03 PM
Not sure how Farmington came into this, but if we're talking about Rochester-Farmington/Lakeville traffic, we're talking about County 46 and MN 50, not County 62 or 66.
Unless your starting point is north of MN/Co 50 and you're looking to avoid Farmington, which can be a slog even at the best of times. Co 66 would potentially be a good alternative
if the interchange is built there.
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 03, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
If MN/DOT and Dakota County aren't going to half-ass the project, the other intersection should be replaced with an overpass or closed anyway.
Certainly agreed on that point.
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 03, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 03, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
If you're talking about re-routing Co 66 north along Donnelly Ave to meet Co 62, that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62. On a regional level, that would also do nothing to address the primary traffic movement in the area, which is from Lakeville/Farmington to US 52 south. That traffic isn't going to backtrack 1 mile just to access US 52 at an interchange; they'll just continue to use Co 66 even if there's no interchange.
If MN/DOT and Dakota County aren't going to half-ass the project, the other intersection should be replaced with an overpass or closed anyway. And there are already plans to finish 190th from highway 3 to the Biscayne Avenue intersection as an extension of county 60. I bet they would look into finishing 190th all the way if an interchange was built there, since a bonus would be that the traffic would have access to highway 3 via a roundabout and not the busy 66/3 intersection.
It would be pretty cool to see county 62 absorbed into the planned county 60 projects, too. It'd create another (almost) cross-county highway.
I was looking around and couldn't find any information on county 60 extensions. Do you have information about that?
Quote from: Trademark on December 03, 2021, 04:09:37 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 03, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 03, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
If you're talking about re-routing Co 66 north along Donnelly Ave to meet Co 62, that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62. On a regional level, that would also do nothing to address the primary traffic movement in the area, which is from Lakeville/Farmington to US 52 south. That traffic isn't going to backtrack 1 mile just to access US 52 at an interchange; they'll just continue to use Co 66 even if there's no interchange.
If MN/DOT and Dakota County aren't going to half-ass the project, the other intersection should be replaced with an overpass or closed anyway. And there are already plans to finish 190th from highway 3 to the Biscayne Avenue intersection as an extension of county 60. I bet they would look into finishing 190th all the way if an interchange was built there, since a bonus would be that the traffic would have access to highway 3 via a roundabout and not the busy 66/3 intersection.
It would be pretty cool to see county 62 absorbed into the planned county 60 projects, too. It'd create another (almost) cross-county highway.
I was looking around and couldn't find any information on county 60 extensions. Do you have information about that?
It probably hasn't even been studied yet, but the 2040 transportation plan includes proposed corridors in a lot of its maps. For example, the map on page 20 (https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlanningPrograms/Documents/2040TransportationPlan.pdf).
Quote from: skluth on December 03, 2021, 12:14:07 PM
Quote
Secondly, the Vermillion River is recognized as having habitat suitable for brown trout. There is no layout at 200th Street that will not impact the river or its immediate watershed.
This could potentially be a bigger issue than the Hmong farm. Environmental issues can delay if not outright stop highway upgrades (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=654.0). Also, it would not be difficult to upgrade Donnelly Ave between 190th and 200th to improve access for Co 66 to the interchange.
This is true.
A few things to point out given recent posts:
- Given Dakota County long range plans, it is far more likely that Clayton Ave will be upgraded between 66 and 62 than Donnelly Ave. In fact, Clayton Ave is in the county's plans regardless of whether or not an interchange gets built at 62 or 66. Such an upgrade is seen by the county as a way to directly connect CSAH 71 and CSAH 79 without impacting
- As TheHighwayMan noted, traffic heading to/from 52 south is primarily going to use 50 or 46...we see that today with the existing traffic patterns. Thus, webny99's argument about an interchange at 66 to serve this is largely moot. And no, 3 through Farmington is *NOT* a slog. The real slog is along and north of 42. Full disclosure: I have personal experience using 46, back when my parents lived in Burnsville.
- Between the river proximity and the disadvantaged farmers in the SW (and, as I've recently discovered, the SE) quadrants at 66, the most likely scenario from both an environmental and a social justice perspective is an interchange at 62. Though detailed concepts and cost estimates have not been made public yet, I suspect the environmental remediation required at the river would also make an interchange at 62 less costly as well.
Quote from: froggie on December 04, 2021, 01:25:03 AM
- Given Dakota County long range plans, it is far more likely that Clayton Ave will be upgraded between 66 and 62 than Donnelly Ave. In fact, Clayton Ave is in the county's plans regardless of whether or not an interchange gets built at 62 or 66. Such an upgrade is seen by the county as a way to directly connect CSAH 71 and CSAH 79 without impacting
Clayton is already paved. Besides putting in turn lanes, what else could they possibly do to it that would make it a better alternative for people in Empire and points east than just using Donnelly to access the interchange? It's the closest thing to a frontage road you can realistically get there.
Quote from: froggie on December 03, 2021, 10:01:38 AM
That may be an exaggeration (though the Minneapolis Farmers Market is not small by any means), but he is not wrong in pointing out the disadvantaged community (in this case, the Hmong) who own land on one corner of 52/66 that would be impacted by an interchange there.
Having worked with a local organic farmer for years, done graduate research about HAFA, I don’t think this group understands how the tentacles of food production affect people, much less market forces driving the farm-to-table movement/locally sourced movement, and the organic movement. There are dozens of farmers’ markets in the greater Twin Cities that have a significant, if not majority presence of Hmong vendors. Some of these markets are large such as Minneapolis, Midtown, Mill City, and St. Paul markets with thousands of customers weekly. Some are local. In addition is the Hmong Village mall that provides year-round food to the 50,000-60,000 Hmong people in St. Paul. Local farmers, including HAFA, distribute their produce to restaurants and markets/co-ops across the Twin Cities reaching many more people than the Hmong community or farmers’ market patrons. The Cities have the highest number of co-ops per capita in the country. Considering that farmers’ markets’ patronage varies from week to week, and that there are 4,000,000 people in the Twin Cities CMSA, 100,000+ people utilizing food produced by HAFA is not that unrealistic. Certainly more than 2.5% of the Twin Cities utilizes any of these food sources during the year.
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 04, 2021, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: froggie on December 04, 2021, 01:25:03 AM
- Given Dakota County long range plans, it is far more likely that Clayton Ave will be upgraded between 66 and 62 than Donnelly Ave. In fact, Clayton Ave is in the county's plans regardless of whether or not an interchange gets built at 62 or 66. Such an upgrade is seen by the county as a way to directly connect CSAH 71 and CSAH 79 without impacting
Clayton is already paved. Besides putting in turn lanes, what else could they possibly do to it that would make it a better alternative for people in Empire and points east than just using Donnelly to access the interchange? It's the closest thing to a frontage road you can realistically get there.
At first blush, the county would probably want to include the shoulders. There are also the long-term plans to connect it to CSAH 71 to the north and CSAH 79 to the south, though those go beyond the interchange area.
My point is that you already have a county-promoted plan along Clayton that can be used to connect 66 with 62 if an interchange goes in at 62. No need to reinvent the wheel on Donnelly.
Quote from: froggie on December 04, 2021, 11:19:40 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 04, 2021, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: froggie on December 04, 2021, 01:25:03 AM
- Given Dakota County long range plans, it is far more likely that Clayton Ave will be upgraded between 66 and 62 than Donnelly Ave. In fact, Clayton Ave is in the county's plans regardless of whether or not an interchange gets built at 62 or 66. Such an upgrade is seen by the county as a way to directly connect CSAH 71 and CSAH 79 without impacting
Clayton is already paved. Besides putting in turn lanes, what else could they possibly do to it that would make it a better alternative for people in Empire and points east than just using Donnelly to access the interchange? It's the closest thing to a frontage road you can realistically get there.
At first blush, the county would probably want to include the shoulders. There are also the long-term plans to connect it to CSAH 71 to the north and CSAH 79 to the south, though those go beyond the interchange area.
My point is that you already have a county-promoted plan along Clayton that can be used to connect 66 with 62 if an interchange goes in at 62. No need to reinvent the wheel on Donnelly.
And my point is that there's a non-zero number of people that would either have to backtrack a whole mile or drive on a gravel road to reach Empire or 66 east. Why wouldn't that be taken into consideration? They don't have to do anything aside from laying down a slab of asphalt and re-routing the road to accommodate the interchange.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on December 04, 2021, 02:00:57 AM
Quote from: froggie on December 03, 2021, 10:01:38 AM
That may be an exaggeration (though the Minneapolis Farmers Market is not small by any means), but he is not wrong in pointing out the disadvantaged community (in this case, the Hmong) who own land on one corner of 52/66 that would be impacted by an interchange there.
Having worked with a local organic farmer for years, done graduate research about HAFA, I don't think this group understands how the tentacles of food production affect people, much less market forces driving the farm-to-table movement/locally sourced movement, and the organic movement. There are dozens of farmers' markets in the greater Twin Cities that have a significant, if not majority presence of Hmong vendors. Some of these markets are large such as Minneapolis, Midtown, Mill City, and St. Paul markets with thousands of customers weekly. Some are local. In addition is the Hmong Village mall that provides year-round food to the 50,000-60,000 Hmong people in St. Paul. Local farmers, including HAFA, distribute their produce to restaurants and markets/co-ops across the Twin Cities reaching many more people than the Hmong community or farmers' market patrons. The Cities have the highest number of co-ops per capita in the country. Considering that farmers' markets' patronage varies from week to week, and that there are 4,000,000 people in the Twin Cities CMSA, 100,000+ people utilizing food produced by HAFA is not that unrealistic. Certainly more than 2.5% of the Twin Cities utilizes any of these food sources during the year.
I'd be more persuaded by actual data on who shops at farmers markets than speculation.
Quote from: froggie on December 04, 2021, 01:25:03 AM
A few things to point out given recent posts:
...
- As TheHighwayMan noted, traffic heading to/from 52 south is primarily going to use 50 or 46...we see that today with the existing traffic patterns. Thus, webny99's argument about an interchange at 66 to serve this is largely moot. And no, 3 through Farmington is *NOT* a slog. The real slog is along and north of 42.
Traffic is largely using MN 50 or Co 46
now... but that's not necessarily going to be the case in 15-20 years when suburban development encroaches on US 52. There will eventually be demand for a third connection and an alternate to MN/Co 50 through Farmington.
Also, I never said MN 3 is a slog. I said Farmington is a slog, which is
especially true on an east-west axis due to the nature and configuration of Co 50 and MN 50 requiring a north-south jog on MN 3 or local streets.
Quote from: Rothman on December 04, 2021, 11:34:57 AM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on December 04, 2021, 02:00:57 AM
Quote from: froggie on December 03, 2021, 10:01:38 AM
That may be an exaggeration (though the Minneapolis Farmers Market is not small by any means), but he is not wrong in pointing out the disadvantaged community (in this case, the Hmong) who own land on one corner of 52/66 that would be impacted by an interchange there.
Having worked with a local organic farmer for years, done graduate research about HAFA, I don't think this group understands how the tentacles of food production affect people, much less market forces driving the farm-to-table movement/locally sourced movement, and the organic movement. There are dozens of farmers' markets in the greater Twin Cities that have a significant, if not majority presence of Hmong vendors. Some of these markets are large such as Minneapolis, Midtown, Mill City, and St. Paul markets with thousands of customers weekly. Some are local. In addition is the Hmong Village mall that provides year-round food to the 50,000-60,000 Hmong people in St. Paul. Local farmers, including HAFA, distribute their produce to restaurants and markets/co-ops across the Twin Cities reaching many more people than the Hmong community or farmers' market patrons. The Cities have the highest number of co-ops per capita in the country. Considering that farmers' markets' patronage varies from week to week, and that there are 4,000,000 people in the Twin Cities CMSA, 100,000+ people utilizing food produced by HAFA is not that unrealistic. Certainly more than 2.5% of the Twin Cities utilizes any of these food sources during the year.
I'd be more persuaded by actual data on who shops at farmers markets than speculation.
Even 1% of a metro population, especially when much of that population is disadvantaged, is significant. The Hmong population is about 1.5% of the metro population. Given the sales, it's reasonable to assume at least 1% of the food in the metro comes from here and probably more than 1% of the fresh food. You're talking about the main food provider for a poorer minority. It's that attitude that allowed freeways to be built mostly through minority neighborhoods in cities while avoiding whiter areas.
As a comparison, Starbucks sells about 8M cups of coffee drinks around the world per day. Even if all that were in the US, it would be less than 1% of the population drinking a cup of Starbucks per day. Just think of the impact of closing all the Starbucks. Yes, customers could get their coffee at Panera or a local coffee joint, but it would be an inconvenience. Now imagine extrapolating that to an experience where all the places you buy groceries are closed. No Cub Foods. No Costco. No Safeway. No WalMart. No Aldi. (Or wherever you buy groceries.) You can still buy your groceries at your local 7/11 and the few small independent grocers that still exist. So it's no problem, right?
The farmers markets and small ethnic grocers not only provide healthy food to Hmong and others who like the food, they provide a source where vendors speak their language and provide hundreds of jobs to the community. This is also the source most good Asian restaurants will get their fresh ingredients. These vendors also serve as community news sources, some provide community space for meetings, and they often provide the only local source of ethnic food ingredients. Jay International (https://www.facebook.com/JayInternationalFoods/), my favorite ethnic grocer during the many years I lived in St Louis, is an excellent example of the multi-purpose nature of these outlets.
Quote from: skluth on December 04, 2021, 02:03:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 04, 2021, 11:34:57 AM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on December 04, 2021, 02:00:57 AM
Quote from: froggie on December 03, 2021, 10:01:38 AM
That may be an exaggeration (though the Minneapolis Farmers Market is not small by any means), but he is not wrong in pointing out the disadvantaged community (in this case, the Hmong) who own land on one corner of 52/66 that would be impacted by an interchange there.
Having worked with a local organic farmer for years, done graduate research about HAFA, I don't think this group understands how the tentacles of food production affect people, much less market forces driving the farm-to-table movement/locally sourced movement, and the organic movement. There are dozens of farmers' markets in the greater Twin Cities that have a significant, if not majority presence of Hmong vendors. Some of these markets are large such as Minneapolis, Midtown, Mill City, and St. Paul markets with thousands of customers weekly. Some are local. In addition is the Hmong Village mall that provides year-round food to the 50,000-60,000 Hmong people in St. Paul. Local farmers, including HAFA, distribute their produce to restaurants and markets/co-ops across the Twin Cities reaching many more people than the Hmong community or farmers' market patrons. The Cities have the highest number of co-ops per capita in the country. Considering that farmers' markets' patronage varies from week to week, and that there are 4,000,000 people in the Twin Cities CMSA, 100,000+ people utilizing food produced by HAFA is not that unrealistic. Certainly more than 2.5% of the Twin Cities utilizes any of these food sources during the year.
I'd be more persuaded by actual data on who shops at farmers markets than speculation.
Even 1% of a metro population, especially when much of that population is disadvantaged, is significant. The Hmong population is about 1.5% of the metro population. Given the sales, it's reasonable to assume at least 1% of the food in the metro comes from here and probably more than 1% of the fresh food. You're talking about the main food provider for a poorer minority. It's that attitude that allowed freeways to be built mostly through minority neighborhoods in cities while avoiding whiter areas.
As a comparison, Starbucks sells about 8M cups of coffee drinks around the world per day. Even if all that were in the US, it would be less than 1% of the population drinking a cup of Starbucks per day. Just think of the impact of closing all the Starbucks. Yes, customers could get their coffee at Panera or a local coffee joint, but it would be an inconvenience. Now imagine extrapolating that to an experience where all the places you buy groceries are closed. No Cub Foods. No Costco. No Safeway. No WalMart. No Aldi. (Or wherever you buy groceries.) You can still buy your groceries at your local 7/11 and the few small independent grocers that still exist. So it's no problem, right?
The farmers markets and small ethnic grocers not only provide healthy food to Hmong and others who like the food, they provide a source where vendors speak their language and provide hundreds of jobs to the community. This is also the source most good Asian restaurants will get their fresh ingredients. These vendors also serve as community news sources, some provide community space for meetings, and they often provide the only local source of ethnic food ingredients. Jay International (https://www.facebook.com/JayInternationalFoods/), my favorite ethnic grocer during the many years I lived in St Louis, is an excellent example of the multi-purpose nature of these outlets.
1% of what sales? Where are you getting that info?
Rothman–
Do you live in the Twin Cities? If so, then you must be familiar with the landmark grocers of Byerly's & Lund's–to whom HAFA provides produce. This is an indicator of the diverse businesses selling HAFA's produce.
Have you ever been to one of the major farmers' markets here? You would not question patronage if you have. Sources indicate 30 to 60 to 185 farmers' markets operate in the Twin Cities with Hmong vendors comprising 50%.
Have you been to the Hmong Village market? It's huge.
What is your experience with local food distribution?
I'm not sure what kinds of data will satisfy you Rothman, so here you are. Start with these sources and prove me wrong. The problem with our society is that if people have no interest in something, they feel entitled to dismiss its importance to others too. This is a critical food production area for the greater Twin Cities that impacts an awful lot of people, that should not be plowed under for an interchange that can be relocated one mile to the north.
https://www.hmongfarmers.com/
https://farmersmarketcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Slocum_CURA_Local-Food-and-Diversity-in-Public-Space_Minneapolis-Farmers-Market.pdf
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/27/2065925/-How-Hmong-farmers-are-building-collective-power-in-Minnesota
https://m.startribune.com/twin-cities-farmers-markets-will-grow-again-in-2021/600052466/
Froggie–
HAFA operates land on at least two quadrants of that intersection, not one.
This is the only farm Lunds and Byerly's can buy produce from?
The 2011 formation of HAFA was before of after CR 66 was identified as a future interchange location in 2000?
I can tell this is already going to come down to the usual board battle lines of "fuck them, build the interchange" and "sorry, the farmers are already there, nothing we can do".
Obviously there's a lot of vested interest on the board in *something* happening, because "it could be I-290!!!!"
Quote from: Mdcastle on December 05, 2021, 03:20:03 PM
This is the only farm Lunds and Byerly's can buy produce from?
The 2011 formation of HAFA was before of after CR 66 was identified as a future interchange location in 2000?
That's not what I said about Lund's. HAFA is a supplier of produce to L & B.
From the communications director of Minnesota Farmers' Market Association:
Farmers' Markets in the Twin Cities were patronized by 4.3 million visitors in 2019, the most recent year that data are available for. Fifty percent of dealers are Hmong.
Let's add in other HAFA enterprises:
Produce sold at other supermarkets,
Produce sold at co-ops,
Produce distributed through CSAs.
Produce sold within the Hmong community of ~60,000.
Produce sold directly to restaurants
Hmong farmers had been operating at that location prior to formalizing it through HAFA.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy
From the communications director of Minnesota Farmers' Market Association:
Farmers' Markets in the Twin Cities were patronized by 4.3 million visitors in 2019, the most recent year that data are available for. Fifty percent of dealers are Hmong.
This is more like it, although the source has a conflict of interest that would lead to exaggerating the numbers.
Quote from: Mdcastle on December 05, 2021, 03:20:03 PM
This is the only farm Lunds and Byerly's can buy produce from?
The 2011 formation of HAFA was before of after CR 66 was identified as a future interchange location in 2000?
Is there a requirement to inform any future buyer that they may lose some land in a few years? If not, there probably should be. This is particularly distasteful and insensitive.
For me, this is post number 494, which reminds me of something that I've always wondered every time I visit the Twin Cities: because the 494/694 beltway shares a common set of exit numbers all the way around, why did MNDOT decide to give it two numbers instead of one or the other? What were they thinking?
Quote from: KCRoadFan on December 05, 2021, 11:20:44 PM
For me, this is post number 494, which reminds me of something that I've always wondered every time I visit the Twin Cities: because the 494/694 beltway shares a common set of exit numbers all the way around, why did MNDOT decide to give it two numbers instead of one or the other? What were they thinking?
MDH (as it was known then) thought one number might be confusing.
Different functions. 694 serves as a bypass for 94 through traffic, and is signed as such while approaching it on 94. 494 is more like your typical suburban loop.
Quote from: froggie on December 06, 2021, 12:16:44 AM
Different functions. 694 serves as a bypass for 94 through traffic, and is signed as such while approaching it on 94. 494 is more like your typical suburban loop.
I feel like 694 should be signed to follow 610 to 10 to current 694 as it's a more effective bypass particularly in traffic. But at this point I know it will never change
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 05, 2021, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on December 05, 2021, 03:20:03 PM
This is the only farm Lunds and Byerly's can buy produce from?
The 2011 formation of HAFA was before of after CR 66 was identified as a future interchange location in 2000?
Is there a requirement to inform any future buyer that they may lose some land in a few years? If not, there probably should be. This is particularly distasteful and insensitive.
What? Any land owner could be facing selling their land under eminent domain practices. It comes with just living in the U.S.
Quote from: Rothman on December 06, 2021, 06:56:52 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 05, 2021, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on December 05, 2021, 03:20:03 PM
This is the only farm Lunds and Byerly's can buy produce from?
The 2011 formation of HAFA was before of after CR 66 was identified as a future interchange location in 2000?
Is there a requirement to inform any future buyer that they may lose some land in a few years? If not, there probably should be. This is particularly distasteful and insensitive.
What? Any land owner could be facing selling their land under eminent domain practices. It comes with just living in the U.S.
Well I know that. But certain properties are way more likely to be wanted under imminent domain than others. If this was identified as a future interchange location in 2000, the people involved with HAFA should have been made aware of that.
Quote from: Trademark on December 06, 2021, 01:43:27 AM
Quote from: froggie on December 06, 2021, 12:16:44 AM
Different functions. 694 serves as a bypass for 94 through traffic, and is signed as such while approaching it on 94. 494 is more like your typical suburban loop.
I feel like 694 should be signed to follow 610 to 10 to current 694 as it's a more effective bypass particularly in traffic. But at this point I know it will never change
610 in general is poorly advertised as being part of an alternate route to St. Paul/694 relief route between 94 and US 10 coming in from the NW. This is one of those cases where the metro's general avoidance of control city usage (or even anything suggesting 610 is more than just some random road to nowhere) is particularly unhelpful.
Why is MN 68 the one that continues east of Morgan? MN 67 would make more sense.
Quote from: Rothman on December 04, 2021, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: skluth on December 04, 2021, 02:03:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 04, 2021, 11:34:57 AM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on December 04, 2021, 02:00:57 AM
Quote from: froggie on December 03, 2021, 10:01:38 AM
That may be an exaggeration (though the Minneapolis Farmers Market is not small by any means), but he is not wrong in pointing out the disadvantaged community (in this case, the Hmong) who own land on one corner of 52/66 that would be impacted by an interchange there.
Having worked with a local organic farmer for years, done graduate research about HAFA, I don't think this group understands how the tentacles of food production affect people, much less market forces driving the farm-to-table movement/locally sourced movement, and the organic movement. There are dozens of farmers' markets in the greater Twin Cities that have a significant, if not majority presence of Hmong vendors. Some of these markets are large such as Minneapolis, Midtown, Mill City, and St. Paul markets with thousands of customers weekly. Some are local. In addition is the Hmong Village mall that provides year-round food to the 50,000-60,000 Hmong people in St. Paul. Local farmers, including HAFA, distribute their produce to restaurants and markets/co-ops across the Twin Cities reaching many more people than the Hmong community or farmers' market patrons. The Cities have the highest number of co-ops per capita in the country. Considering that farmers' markets' patronage varies from week to week, and that there are 4,000,000 people in the Twin Cities CMSA, 100,000+ people utilizing food produced by HAFA is not that unrealistic. Certainly more than 2.5% of the Twin Cities utilizes any of these food sources during the year.
I'd be more persuaded by actual data on who shops at farmers markets than speculation.
Even 1% of a metro population, especially when much of that population is disadvantaged, is significant. The Hmong population is about 1.5% of the metro population. Given the sales, it's reasonable to assume at least 1% of the food in the metro comes from here and probably more than 1% of the fresh food. You're talking about the main food provider for a poorer minority. It's that attitude that allowed freeways to be built mostly through minority neighborhoods in cities while avoiding whiter areas.
As a comparison, Starbucks sells about 8M cups of coffee drinks around the world per day. Even if all that were in the US, it would be less than 1% of the population drinking a cup of Starbucks per day. Just think of the impact of closing all the Starbucks. Yes, customers could get their coffee at Panera or a local coffee joint, but it would be an inconvenience. Now imagine extrapolating that to an experience where all the places you buy groceries are closed. No Cub Foods. No Costco. No Safeway. No WalMart. No Aldi. (Or wherever you buy groceries.) You can still buy your groceries at your local 7/11 and the few small independent grocers that still exist. So it's no problem, right?
The farmers markets and small ethnic grocers not only provide healthy food to Hmong and others who like the food, they provide a source where vendors speak their language and provide hundreds of jobs to the community. This is also the source most good Asian restaurants will get their fresh ingredients. These vendors also serve as community news sources, some provide community space for meetings, and they often provide the only local source of ethnic food ingredients. Jay International (https://www.facebook.com/JayInternationalFoods/), my favorite ethnic grocer during the many years I lived in St Louis, is an excellent example of the multi-purpose nature of these outlets.
1% of what sales? Where are you getting that info?
50,000-60,000 Hmong of the 4M MSP metro population, assuming most but not all the Hmong heavily use HAFA as their primary food source. (50K/4M=1.25%) This may be an overestimate but would be countered by non-Hmong customers.
Maybe you know something I don't, but do the Hmong only buy Hmong tomatoes, as opposed to buying ordinary tomatoes at Cub Foods like everyone else? If we built the interchange at CR 66 would are we suggesting all the Hmong would starve to death, or could the maybe buy tomatoes at Cub Foods, or grow Hmong tomatoes, if there's really something special about them, at a different farm. It doesn't matter to me where the interchange goes, but the allegations about how critical a part of a single farm among countless thousands in Minnesota alone, to the Twin Cities' food supply strikes me as silly.
As far as knowing that was a future interchange location, it's only been posted on the web since the study was completed around 2000. I guess I'd check into that possibility if I was thinking about buying land by a major highway where they're obviously building interchanges all over the place.
This came as a minor surprise. MnDOT has a project tentatively scheduled for 2025-26 to fill the 4-lane gap in Wadena (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/projects/wadena/h10/index.html). Existing US 10 would be widened, and the recently completed reconstruction through Wadena proper would be restriped for 4 lanes (such was designed into the reconstruction).
Quote from: froggie on December 12, 2021, 10:18:02 AM
This came as a minor surprise. MnDOT has a project tentatively scheduled for 2025-26 to fill the 4-lane gap in Wadena (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/projects/wadena/h10/index.html). Existing US 10 would be widened, and the recently completed reconstruction through Wadena proper would be restriped for 4 lanes (such was designed into the reconstruction).
Weren't there plans for a bypass until very recently? It seems a bit odd that they would do this considering they atrociously just took out the four-lane segment of highway 61 in Lake City.
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 12, 2021, 12:46:56 PM
Weren't there plans for a bypass until very recently? It seems a bit odd that they would do this considering they atrociously just took out the four-lane segment of highway 61 in Lake City.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is atrocious about the 3 lane segment of Hwy 61 in Lake City?
Quote from: andarcondadont on December 12, 2021, 04:41:17 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 12, 2021, 12:46:56 PM
Weren't there plans for a bypass until very recently? It seems a bit odd that they would do this considering they atrociously just took out the four-lane segment of highway 61 in Lake City.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is atrocious about the 3 lane segment of Hwy 61 in Lake City?
That used to be the only area where you could reliably and safely pass slowpokes travelling from Red Wing to Wabasha. The atrocious part of it is that they didn't bother to think of this and build at least one segment with a passing lane elsewhere.
Of course, I'd prefer a full expressway all the way from St. Paul to La Crescent (and urban four-lanes where needed), but there's no chance of that happening now.
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 03, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 03, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
If you're talking about re-routing Co 66 north along Donnelly Ave to meet Co 62, that wouldn't leave enough space for a diamond interchange at Co 62. On a regional level, that would also do nothing to address the primary traffic movement in the area, which is from Lakeville/Farmington to US 52 south. That traffic isn't going to backtrack 1 mile just to access US 52 at an interchange; they'll just continue to use Co 66 even if there's no interchange.
If MN/DOT and Dakota County aren't going to half-ass the project, the other intersection should be replaced with an overpass or closed anyway. And there are already plans to finish 190th from highway 3 to the Biscayne Avenue intersection as an extension of county 60. I bet they would look into finishing 190th all the way if an interchange was built there, since a bonus would be that the traffic would have access to highway 3 via a roundabout and not the busy 66/3 intersection.
It would be pretty cool to see county 62 absorbed into the planned county 60 projects, too. It'd create another (almost) cross-county highway.
A very MN thing to take a road that needs a freeway and build an expressway
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 12, 2021, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: froggie on December 12, 2021, 10:18:02 AM
This came as a minor surprise. MnDOT has a project tentatively scheduled for 2025-26 to fill the 4-lane gap in Wadena (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/projects/wadena/h10/index.html). Existing US 10 would be widened, and the recently completed reconstruction through Wadena proper would be restriped for 4 lanes (such was designed into the reconstruction).
Weren't there plans for a bypass until very recently? It seems a bit odd that they would do this considering they atrociously just took out the four-lane segment of highway 61 in Lake City.
A bypass was studied at least twice, but eventually dropped about 10-15 years ago in favor of upgrading the existing alignment. Later on, MnDOT decided that they couldn't afford even that, though they did manage to accommodate 4 lanes through Wadena with the recent urban rebuild. This is why it was a surprise to me that they have an active project, because last I heard they didn't have the long-term funding to fill the gap.
Big difference between here and 61 in Lake City, though. That 4-to-3 in Lake City is because they had a lot of left turning traffic that was causing problems, and a more constricted right-of-way (especially in downtown Lake City) than on 10 through Wadena. Lake City also doesn't have 4-lane sections approaching the edge of town like Wadena does.
Agree that they could have built passing lanes on 61. ROW's constricted along the river bluffs south of Lake City, but they could have built a set of passing lanes somewhere near Frontenac.
Also, regarding Moland's comments from the 3rd (that texaskdog just responded to), MnDOT's building a roundabout at MN 3/Dakota 66 next year.
The Star Tribune has an article about how Oak Park Heights and Washington County are disagreeing about the interchange on MN 36 at Manning that's under construction:
https://www.startribune.com/oak-park-heights-miffed-over-decision-to-remove-hwy-36-slip-lane/600126431/
The county has included an extra lane on Westbound 36 between Stillwater Boulevard and Manning, so people taking 36 westbound between the two roads don't have to merge onto 36, then merge back off again.
However, on the eastbound side, the county isn't including an extra lane. Instead, they're building a service road with several intersections between Manning and Stillwater Boulevard. Oak Park Heights wants the eastbound side to have the extra lane, like the westbound side will have. Oak Park Heights is refusing to "consent" to construction of the service drive.
Personally, I think Oak Park Heights is right about this. Motorists will take 36 eastbound between Manning and Stillwater rather than the service road, and the extra lane will reduce congestion on the through lanes.
The least surprising thing in the article is that traffic on 36 "has increased exponentially" since the St Croix bridge opened four years ago. Once 36 becomes a freeway west of 694, the traffic will go up further between 694 and the new bridge....which will further increase pressure to make improvements to that stretch of 36.
QuoteThe least surprising thing in the article is that traffic on 36 "has increased exponentially" since the St Croix bridge opened four years ago. Once 36 becomes a freeway west of 694, the traffic will go up further between 694 and the new bridge....which will further increase pressure to make improvements to that stretch of 36.
Which one can then blame on Oak Park Heights because they're the ones who shot down upgrading 36 to a freeway between Stillwater Rd and the river. Funny how things come full circle.
Some of that traffic would use the service road if Washington County moved county road 15 onto it.
Quote from: froggie on December 13, 2021, 09:46:23 AM
QuoteThe least surprising thing in the article is that traffic on 36 "has increased exponentially" since the St Croix bridge opened four years ago. Once 36 becomes a freeway west of 694, the traffic will go up further between 694 and the new bridge....which will further increase pressure to make improvements to that stretch of 36.
Which one can then blame on Oak Park Heights because they're the ones who shot down upgrading 36 to a freeway between Stillwater Rd and the river. Funny how things come full circle.
I agree 100%. I predicted when the bridge was under construction that the traffic on 36 through Oak Park Heights would get a lot worse once the bridge opened, and Oak Park Heights would regret their anti-freeway views.
Froggie, do you think it's feasible to make 36 east of Stillwater Road a freeway, or is the right of way so built up that it would be cost prohibitive?
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2021, 10:15:35 AM
Some of that traffic would use the service road if Washington County moved county road 15 onto it.
The interchange project layout (https://www.co.washington.mn.us/DocumentCenter/View/41881/Manning-Ave-Layout---updated-2-2021) indicates that the county planned on doing that anyway...note the "CSAH 15" labels where the service road would tie into the eastbound ramps at Manning.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on December 13, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Froggie, do you think it's feasible to make 36 east of Stillwater Road a freeway, or is the right of way so built up that it would be cost prohibitive?
Much of that development, especially on the north side of 36 and at Osgood, has existed for 20+ years, and MnDOT did manage to come up with a buttonhook ramp concept when the bridge studies were going on. But at this point, overall costs would probably make it prohibitive. Plus the newer (within the last 10 years) development on the south side of 36 and west of Oakgreen would complicate things further.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.0605779,-95.8543729,3a,75y,193.35h,101.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCb-YpKSuTzE1MKkjdhmFfQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6818535,-96.4362789,3a,75y,225.76h,106.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD9a-toq9_9NuwGxHrYWivw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Well, that's a long pylon parallel if I've ever seen one. Seems to have gone up between 2013 and 2015.
^ Several of those along Minnesota Interstates. Transmission lines that parallel the Interstate corridors. I know of a number of segments that have existed since long before 2013.
That would be CapX2020, it was designed to distribute power, especially wind power, from eastern South Dakota and southwestern Minnesota, to the Twin Cities and Wisconsin. It starts at Aberdeen, SD, touches the Twin Cities at Hampton, and then heads along US 52 to La Crosse.
Here in Madison, there is a power line that parallels the Beltline.
Today's Strib says MnDoT will finally be building a ramp from WB 610 to EB 94 in Maple Grove. Other projects MnDoT will be funding are a ramp from SB 35W to CR 42 / Buck Hill Road in Burnsville, a frontage road on 65 between 99th and 109th in Blaine, and improvements to the intersection of MN 41 and CR 10 in Chaska.
https://www.startribune.com/hwy-610-ramp-to-eastbound-i-94-in-maple-grove-gets-funding/600132076/
Another article in the Strib discusses how Hmong farmers are concerned about losing farmland if an interchange is built at MN 52 and County 66.
https://www.startribune.com/hmong-american-farmers-worry-about-road-project-eating-up-acres-of-land/600132133/?refresh=true
I understand how farmers feel about losing some of their land, but I also feel the 52 / 66 interchange is dangerous, and needs to be fixed soon.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on January 03, 2022, 08:54:39 AM
a ramp from SB 35W to CR 42 / Buck Hill Road in Burnsville,
What does this mean? Improvements to the ramp that exists there?
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 03, 2022, 11:49:11 AM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on January 03, 2022, 08:54:39 AM
a ramp from SB 35W to CR 42 / Buck Hill Road in Burnsville,
What does this mean? Improvements to the ramp that exists there?
I'm assuming he meant a ramp from CSAH 42 to I-35W South, he just wrote it backwards. I'm paywalled so I can't verify. I'm surprised with Burnsville Center being on the 35W side of this cluster that it took this long for more ramps to be added to 35W/42.
I know we've talked about this subject numerous times, but I just don't understand why finishing out the missing 94/610 movements is such a high priority. But I guess their studies have said they need to push it to the forefront, so I'll have to trust them on that.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 03, 2022, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 03, 2022, 11:49:11 AM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on January 03, 2022, 08:54:39 AM
a ramp from SB 35W to CR 42 / Buck Hill Road in Burnsville,
What does this mean? Improvements to the ramp that exists there?
I'm assuming he meant a ramp from CSAH 42 to I-35W South, he just wrote it backwards. I'm paywalled so I can't verify. I'm surprised with Burnsville Center being on the 35W side of this cluster that it took this long for more ramps to be added to 35W/42.
I know we've talked about this subject numerous times, but I just don't understand why finishing out the missing 94/610 movements is such a high priority. But I guess their studies have said they need to push it to the forefront, so I'll have to trust them on that.
The article just says the exact same thing, which makes no sense. If it means another ramp from Buck Hill Road onto 35W, I suppose it would make sense to relieve some traffic on 42, but I don't really see why it's a priority.
"MnDOT also plans to build an exit ramp from southbound I-35W to Buck Hill Road and County Road 42 near the Burnsville Center. The ramp will support redevelopment in the area and bring as many as 350 new jobs in the next five years, the agency said."
(https://i.imgur.com/OTy0cf8.png)
Monte beat me to it (and had a map which I had previously been unable to find), but the Burnsville project involves another southbound off-ramp from I-35W. As the map indicates, Buck Hill Rd will be realigned and reconfigured as part of a broader redevelopment of Burnsville Center.
Great news. Burnsville Center is a sad place these days.
When would construction of this added exit ramp and other local improvements around Burnsville Center take place?
This discussion tangentially got me wondering why MnDOT never built return ramps between 35E and 35W like Texas's set has. The south end arguably doesn't need them anyway since you can go between 35W and 35E on CSAH 42 just north of the merge point, but the Forest Lake split is much more remote and could be more easily justified with the space between exits on 35W and 35E up there.
For the record I don't think return ramps are needed at either end. Just a thought exercise.
https://www.burnsvillemn.gov/DocumentCenter/View/21212/Center-Village-Traffic-Study-Presentation-2020-02-11
https://www.burnsvillemn.gov/DocumentCenter/View/21264/Center-Village-Traffic-Study---March-2020-small
These two city documents go into a bit more detail on the proposed ramp to Buck Hill Rd, along with other options considered, mitigation on CSAH 42, and a few references to the proposed street grid where Burnsville Center is currently located.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 04, 2022, 02:37:08 PM
This discussion tangentially got me wondering why MnDOT never built return ramps between 35E and 35W like Texas's set has. The south end arguably doesn't need them anyway since you can go between 35W and 35E on CSAH 42 just north of the merge point, but the Forest Lake split is much more remote and could be more easily justified with the space between exits on 35W and 35E up there.
For the record I don't think return ramps are needed at either end. Just a thought exercise.
I think a ramp from 35E north to 35W south in Columbus could fill a small niche since there's no direct connection there, and 35W travels southwest at that point. But the south metro has enough roads running between them that it wouldn't really be worth it.
The I-90/US-52 interchange will be reconstructed starting in 2024, possibly adding a flyover ramp from SB US-52 to EB I-90:
https://krocnews.com/major-upgrades-to-rochester-area-interchange-to-begin-in-2024/
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/i90-hwy52/index.html
Hopefully this project will eliminate both "left exits" and transform it into a true freeway-to-freeway interchange.
Quote from: rhen_var on January 04, 2022, 04:54:47 PM
Hopefully this project will eliminate both "left exits" and transform it into a true freeway-to-freeway interchange.
I'm not sure we'll get that. 52 is a two-lane road to the south of 90, and US 63 handles half the 52/90 movements with MnDOT putting a bunch of money into US 63 between 90 and 52 and improving the I-90 interchange with US 63/MN 30.
At the very least, it sounds like the most critical turning motion will be improved; SB to EB. That implies some sort of turbine or flyover.
I was eager to see some diagrams of proposed alternatives, but no dice. Not yet at least. MnDOT, you tease!
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 05, 2022, 09:36:43 AM
At the very least, it sounds like the most critical turning motion will be improved; SB to EB. That implies some sort of turbine or flyover.
I was eager to see some diagrams of proposed alternatives, but no dice. Not yet at least. MnDOT, you tease!
Of course the MnDOT thing to do would be to make the new SB-EB movement a loop ramp. :pan:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 05, 2022, 12:34:25 PM
Of course the MnDOT thing to do would be to make the new SB-EB movement a loop ramp. :pan:
With the homes and farmstead right there in the southwest quadrant of the interchange, a loop ramp may actually be more expensive and impactful than a turbine or flyover.
The ice road between Warroad and the Northwest Angle across Lake of the Woods is back for a second year. It was first established last winter to bypass the Canadian border closures. However, it's an extremely expensive toll road - $250 per round trip.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/01/16/northwest-angle-ice-road?fbclid=IwAR12YAzEup3V6X7_NlNqrpDOmU57ImWpf1ee1fjkJ5ACBIgHXysxFLpcKxU
Do they accept MNPass? :awesomeface:
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 17, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Do they accept MNPass? :awesomeface:
I hope they at least take credit cards as most people don't carry $250 cash around unless they're heading to the nearest cannabis dispensary. :cool: :spin: X-(
Does anyone have a guess why the panel with information about Hudson exits was removed from this gantry on 94 east sometime in late 2018?
https://goo.gl/maps/2u4x9umxZVur2tpa6
Quote from: MNtoOC on January 17, 2022, 09:38:57 PM
Does anyone have a guess why the panel with information about Hudson exits was removed from this gantry on 94 east sometime in late 2018?
https://goo.gl/maps/2u4x9umxZVur2tpa6
The sign with this information was moved to ground level beyond the interchange (and looks like something WisDOT made while the original sign in question you asked about looks like a MnDOT install), though apparently replaced again with a standalone advance sign for WIS 35 North as had been in that spot originally.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9612441,-92.7752259,3a,75y,63.06h,94.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1si__c0BIHHYsugXoeLlwOpA!2e0!5s20190501T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 17, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Do they accept MNPass EZPass? :awesomeface:
Fixed for our northeast contingent. :sombrero:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 17, 2022, 10:00:48 PM
Quote from: MNtoOC on January 17, 2022, 09:38:57 PM
Does anyone have a guess why the panel with information about Hudson exits was removed from this gantry on 94 east sometime in late 2018?
https://goo.gl/maps/2u4x9umxZVur2tpa6
The sign with this information was moved to ground level beyond the interchange (and looks like something WisDOT made while the original sign in question you asked about looks like a MnDOT install), though apparently replaced again with a standalone advance sign for WIS 35 North as had been in that spot originally.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9612441,-92.7752259,3a,75y,63.06h,94.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1si__c0BIHHYsugXoeLlwOpA!2e0!5s20190501T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Yes, all the signage in and around the Hudson area was recently replaced and upgraded as part of the general construction in the area, including the more-frequent blue mile markers in the median which hadn't been there before. We also now see US 12 reassurance markers co-posted on I-94 as soon as you cross the state line, which they hadn't bothered with before this either.
Quote from: invincor on January 18, 2022, 09:47:04 AM
We also now see US 12 reassurance markers co-posted on I-94 as soon as you cross the state line, which they hadn't bothered with before this either.
WisDOT put a set on the St. Croix bridge right after the interchange with MN 95, which is amusing because it's still technically on the Minnesota side making it the only mention of I-94 and US 12 duplexing in MN other than at the I-394 interchange. :D
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 16, 2022, 06:31:10 PM
The ice road between Warroad and the Northwest Angle across Lake of the Woods is back for a second year. It was first established last winter to bypass the Canadian border closures. However, it's an extremely expensive toll road - $250 per round trip.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/01/16/northwest-angle-ice-road?fbclid=IwAR12YAzEup3V6X7_NlNqrpDOmU57ImWpf1ee1fjkJ5ACBIgHXysxFLpcKxU
and are there any legal issues with that? They have no real power to do any thing if you don't pay? Can just do what an an private parking ticket can do?
Can't give real tickets for speeding?
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on January 22, 2022, 12:33:56 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 16, 2022, 06:31:10 PM
The ice road between Warroad and the Northwest Angle across Lake of the Woods is back for a second year. It was first established last winter to bypass the Canadian border closures. However, it's an extremely expensive toll road - $250 per round trip.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/01/16/northwest-angle-ice-road?fbclid=IwAR12YAzEup3V6X7_NlNqrpDOmU57ImWpf1ee1fjkJ5ACBIgHXysxFLpcKxU
and are there any legal issues with that? They have no real power to do any thing if you don't pay? Can just do what an an private parking ticket can do?
Can't give real tickets for speeding?
They funnel the entrances to the road through a private resort to paywall the entrances, but if you figured out how to connect to the ice road from a public entrance to the lake there's nothing they can do beyond that since it's public waters.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 25, 2022, 01:46:18 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on January 22, 2022, 12:33:56 AM
and are there any legal issues with that? They have no real power to do any thing if you don't pay? Can just do what an an private parking ticket can do?
Can't give real tickets for speeding?
They funnel the entrances to the road through a private resort to paywall the entrances, but if you figured out how to connect to the ice road from a public entrance to the lake there's nothing they can do beyond that since it's public waters.
To be fair, there's a lot more to it than just setting up a toll booth and marking off a course. They also actively plow and maintain the route. You're not just going to drive onto the lake at a random location. The snow is too deep and the ice thickness is random enough one has a genuine risk of breaking through and drowning if they're off the maintained path.
Ultimately, Old Man Winter and Mother Nature team up with Darwin to enforce travelers to the Northwest Angle do it on the established route.
Quote from: JREwing78 on January 25, 2022, 07:14:45 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 25, 2022, 01:46:18 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on January 22, 2022, 12:33:56 AM
and are there any legal issues with that? They have no real power to do any thing if you don't pay? Can just do what an an private parking ticket can do?
Can't give real tickets for speeding?
They funnel the entrances to the road through a private resort to paywall the entrances, but if you figured out how to connect to the ice road from a public entrance to the lake there's nothing they can do beyond that since it's public waters.
To be fair, there's a lot more to it than just setting up a toll booth and marking off a course. They also actively plow and maintain the route. You're not just going to drive onto the lake at a random location. The snow is too deep and the ice thickness is random enough one has a genuine risk of breaking through and drowning if they're off the maintained path.
Ultimately, Old Man Winter and Mother Nature team up with Darwin to enforce travelers to the Northwest Angle do it on the established route.
Yep. Unfavorable weather has now closed down the through road, possibly for the rest of the winter.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/northland-outdoors/operators-pull-the-plug-on-northwest-angle-ice-road-conditions-too-rough-for-plowing-to-continue?fbclid=IwAR0eOTjcAOPg86fdtNfLZ-kgqdl1Ot0R3nHVIKhhWyO2m9sTOQoYhekgOD0
^ Paywalled article. Can you give a summary?
Quote from: froggie on January 28, 2022, 08:36:56 AM
^ Paywalled article. Can you give a summary?
Extreme cold had made the snow too difficult to plow, and a recent blizzard also broke up ice along the existing route.
These 1958 articles refer to Minnesota's interstates by their constitutional route numbers. I thought the numbers of the two-digit highways were already planned at that point. Was the new I-35 construction marked as I-390 for a while? Why would they do this?
https://collection.mndigital.org/catalog/mdt:2029#?c=&m=&s=&cv=&xywh=-734%2C-200%2C4257%2C3992
https://collection.mndigital.org/catalog/mdt:1977#?c=&m=&s=&cv=&xywh=1507%2C2241%2C1425%2C1336
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 01, 2022, 03:25:29 PM
These 1958 articles refer to Minnesota's interstates by their constitutional route numbers. I thought the numbers of the two-digit highways were already planned at that point. Was the new I-35 construction marked as I-390 for a while? Why would they do this?
I would guess they were just placeholders. Like most policy initiatives, it was unlikely they had all the details figured out when the bill was signed in 1956 given (as implied in the second link) that construction was going to take 15-20 years. The Minnesota state map doesn't show the nascent proposed interstate routings until 1959, and the original planned route of I-35 following US 69 instead of US 65 out of Albert Lea was shown well into the 1960s. Because the new freeways were mostly new construction rather than improving existing corridors, new legislative routes likely needed to be authorized by the state legislature.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/161.12/pdf
In the second link, the picture shows the interchange between "Interstate route 393" (MN 100) and "Interstate route 394" (US 65) (this interchange is today's I-35W/I-494 in Bloomington) while also noting their existing state highway numbers apparently being moved off of their previous parallel corridors onto the new freeways. US 65 was on Lyndale Avenue and I believe 100 and MN 5 were on West 78th St. So the new freeways had state highway numbers, just not their I- numbers yet.
I have gone through pretty much every MnDOT signing plans set since the very first one on I-35W in Bloomington in 1959 (SP 2782-37), and I have never seen a single plan sheet calling for any of these legislative numbers to appear on a sign. While it is distantly possible one or more of them might have appeared on temporary signing erected as part of a paving contract, I think it is far more likely that any such signing would have marked the new facility as a bypass or relocated mainline of the parallel US route, a very common strategy in the late 1950's/early 1960's.
Older plans sets do include the legislative route number in the highway designations on title sheets, plan sheet collars, etc. (i.e., not as part of the sign designs themselves), typically as something like "TH 35W=394," "TH 12=10," "TH 7=12," etc. That is not true for current plans sets and has not been since about the mid-1980's, though I haven't pinpointed the exact years this nomenclature fell into disuse.
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 01, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Did Minnesota ever consider keeping and maintaining the US routes that the Interstates were supplanting? I'm thinking of the way Wisconsin continues to maintain a separate US-12 alongside I-94. I've always thought of it like a superior frontage road.
Quote from: invincor on February 02, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 01, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Did Minnesota ever consider keeping and maintaining the US routes that the Interstates were supplanting? I'm thinking of the way Wisconsin continues to maintain a separate US-12 alongside I-94. I've always thought of it like a superior frontage road.
No. MnDOT is Constitutionally limited to a state highway system of 12,000 miles or less. And while the Interstates technically don't count given the language in the state Constitution (at least the way I read the language), MnDOT has operated as if they do count. And there's probably a good reason for that.
Quote from: invincor on February 02, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 01, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Did Minnesota ever consider keeping and maintaining the US routes that the Interstates were supplanting? I'm thinking of the way Wisconsin continues to maintain a separate US-12 alongside I-94. I've always thought of it like a superior frontage road.
Wisconsin hasn't always done that either. US-12 is really the only example of significant length.
Quote from: froggie on February 02, 2022, 09:19:36 PM
Quote from: invincor on February 02, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 01, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Did Minnesota ever consider keeping and maintaining the US routes that the Interstates were supplanting? I'm thinking of the way Wisconsin continues to maintain a separate US-12 alongside I-94. I've always thought of it like a superior frontage road.
No. MnDOT is Constitutionally limited to a state highway system of 12,000 miles or less. And while the Interstates technically don't count given the language in the state Constitution (at least the way I read the language), MnDOT has operated as if they do count. And there's probably a good reason for that.
And for the most part, the parallel old US routes that are now county roads are just as good of quality as any state highway, if not better in some cases. This is why I don't get as bent out of shape as others that our interstate emergency detours aren't state highways.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 02, 2022, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: invincor on February 02, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 01, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Did Minnesota ever consider keeping and maintaining the US routes that the Interstates were supplanting? I'm thinking of the way Wisconsin continues to maintain a separate US-12 alongside I-94. I've always thought of it like a superior frontage road.
Wisconsin hasn't always done that either. US-12 is really the only example of significant length.
There's also WIS-16 alongside I-90, and later, I-94. (Formerly US-16, of course.)
And to begin with, those were the only two Interstates Wisconsin had. The more recent three additions started out as US highways that were expanded to four lanes in stages and eventually promoted to Interstates after a few decades, so you can see why separate highways near them didn't happen.
Quote from: invincor on February 04, 2022, 10:18:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 02, 2022, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: invincor on February 02, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 01, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Did Minnesota ever consider keeping and maintaining the US routes that the Interstates were supplanting? I'm thinking of the way Wisconsin continues to maintain a separate US-12 alongside I-94. I've always thought of it like a superior frontage road.
Wisconsin hasn't always done that either. US-12 is really the only example of significant length.
There's also WIS-16 alongside I-90, and later, I-94. (Formerly US-16, of course.)
And to begin with, those were the only two Interstates Wisconsin had. The more recent three additions started out as US highways that were expanded to four lanes in stages and eventually promoted to Interstates after a few decades, so you can see why separate highways near them didn't happen.
I-43 between Beloit and Milwaukee was WI 15, not a US highway. Also, a tiny bit of I-39 near Portage was WI 78. But what you said is essentially correct that they were not originally planned as interstates.
Quote from: skluth on February 04, 2022, 11:02:21 AM
Quote from: invincor on February 04, 2022, 10:18:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 02, 2022, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: invincor on February 02, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 01, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Did Minnesota ever consider keeping and maintaining the US routes that the Interstates were supplanting? I'm thinking of the way Wisconsin continues to maintain a separate US-12 alongside I-94. I've always thought of it like a superior frontage road.
Wisconsin hasn’t always done that either. US-12 is really the only example of significant length.
There's also WIS-16 alongside I-90, and later, I-94. (Formerly US-16, of course.)
And to begin with, those were the only two Interstates Wisconsin had. The more recent three additions started out as US highways that were expanded to four lanes in stages and eventually promoted to Interstates after a few decades, so you can see why separate highways near them didn't happen.
I-43 between Beloit and Milwaukee was WI 15, not a US highway. Also, a tiny bit of I-39 near Portage was WI 78. But what you said is essentially correct that they were not originally planned as interstates.
Also, I-41/94 south of Milwaukee was originally WI 15 (120s era), then US 41. It was completely four laned before WWII (all the way from 27th St in Milwaukee to Chicago's north side, then upgraded to a full freeway in Wisconsin within a few years of WWII ending.
Mike
Quote from: invincor on February 04, 2022, 10:18:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 02, 2022, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: invincor on February 02, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on February 01, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
It's interesting that very early on they decided they were going to put a frontage road on either side.
Did Minnesota ever consider keeping and maintaining the US routes that the Interstates were supplanting? I'm thinking of the way Wisconsin continues to maintain a separate US-12 alongside I-94. I've always thought of it like a superior frontage road.
Wisconsin hasn't always done that either. US-12 is really the only example of significant length.
There's also WIS-16 alongside I-90, and later, I-94. (Formerly US-16, of course.)
And to begin with, those were the only two Interstates Wisconsin had. The more recent three additions started out as US highways that were expanded to four lanes in stages and eventually promoted to Interstates after a few decades, so you can see why separate highways near them didn't happen.
You said specifically US routes. Then bring up a Highway that is no longer a US route. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Edina became the most recent city to start signing a lower default speed limit adding with Minneapolis, St. Paul, and St. Louis Park. Minneapolis is 20 MPH while the others are 25. It seems interesting that limits on our freeways have mostly increased from 55 to 60 across the metro while cities are starting to lower their surface street limits.
It's not just a Minnesota thing. Madison's made a big push for lowering speed limits in the interest of (pedestrian) safety.
Quote from: JREwing78 on February 06, 2022, 10:00:46 PM
It's not just a Minnesota thing. Madison's made a big push for lowering speed limits in the interest of (pedestrian) safety.
Yeah I've seen this. But since they're basically not enforcing those limits, it has made zero difference.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 07, 2022, 11:11:59 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on February 06, 2022, 10:00:46 PM
It's not just a Minnesota thing. Madison's made a big push for lowering speed limits in the interest of (pedestrian) safety.
Yeah I've seen this. But since they're basically not enforcing those limits, it has made zero difference.
It's another Urbanist thing called Vision Zero (https://visionzeronetwork.org/). For some reason, I was reminded of this old National Lampoon song.
^ Vision Zero isn't just an "urbanist" thing. MnDOT has used a similar term (https://www.minnesotatzd.org/) with the same end goal (zero vehicle deaths) with Outstate (i.e. outside the Twin Cities) corridors, especially 52 between St. Paul and Rochester.
I noticed a handful of "YOUR SPEED" electronic signs appended onto the lower part of regular speed limit signs on I-35 between Duluth and Minneapolis. They were not operational (or only trigger at a certain speed over 70) but I've never seen those on a freeway that wasn't part of a construction zone. I wondered if they were having issues with speeders so they were trying some low-cost effort to spook them into slowing down.
Today's Star Tribune says MnDoT is looking for ways to make MN 7 safer through Hennepin and Carver counties. Over the past five years, there have been more than 1,500 accidents and 11 fatalities on MN 7 in this area. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/through-audit-mndot-trying-to-find-ways-to-make-dangerous-hwy-7-safer/600146426/
I think the problem with Highway 7 is that drivers treat it like a freeway even though it has a lot of intersections and relatively few interchanges....and the area it goes through is so built up that it would be almost impossible to add service drives and reduce the number of intersections.
I'm also concerned that traffic on 7 through St Louis Park and Hopkins will get worse as the population density of the neighborhoods south of 7 increases due to redevelopment along the long-delayed light rail line between downtown Minneapolis and Eden Prairie.
The 4-lane section of MN 7 (and MN 5) both warrant extension past MN 41 at this point, but are unlikely due to NIMBY and environmental concerns.
7 likely needs a full-scale rebuild between 494 and 41 at this point to upgrade the ancient divided highway (with further minor intersection removal and an interchange at CSAH 101), but that's certainly well beyond funding capabilities right now.
We talked a bit about 7 inside of 494 a few months back, but the one stretch that they shouldn't wait much longer to figure something out with is between the Blake and Texas intersections in front of Knollwood, and the more things that get built like the CFA that went in at the corner of the Texas intersection and the strip mall with Jersey Mike's/BWW Express at Blake will make this more and more difficult to address.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 14, 2022, 12:30:19 PM
The 4-lane section of MN 7 (and MN 5) both warrant extension past MN 41 at this point, but are unlikely due to NIMBY and environmental concerns.
7 likely needs a full-scale rebuild between 494 and 41 at this point to upgrade the ancient divided highway (with further minor intersection removal and an interchange at CSAH 101), but that's certainly well beyond funding capabilities right now.
We talked a bit about 7 inside of 494 a few months back, but the one stretch that they shouldn't wait much longer to figure something out with is between the Blake and Texas intersections in front of Knollwood, and the more things that get built like the CFA that went in at the corner of the Texas intersection and the strip mall with Jersey Mike's/BWW Express at Blake will make this more and more difficult to address.
I agree 100% about the Texas / Blake area on 7. Building interchanges on 7 at Wooddale and Louisiana was a good idea, especially because the Louisiana interchange makes it easier for emergency vehicles and patients to get from 7 to Methodist Hospital. However, westbound traffic on 7 goes up the hill west of Louisiana then after the crest of the hill has to slow down quickly if the traffic light at Texas is red.
The former site of Atlas Cold Storage on Blake south of 7 is going to be redeveloped into a high rise residential complex, and an empty overflow parking lot across from Texa Tonka mall at the Texas / Minnetonka intersection is also being turned into high rise residential housing. Further north, a parcel of land on the east side of Louisiana between 27th Street and the Burlington Northern tracks is for sale, and will likely be turned into high rise housing, too. Once these complexes are complete, the congestion on 7 in this area is going to get worse, and it doesn't seem like St Louis Park has any plans to address the issue.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on February 22, 2022, 08:31:40 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 14, 2022, 12:30:19 PM
The 4-lane section of MN 7 (and MN 5) both warrant extension past MN 41 at this point, but are unlikely due to NIMBY and environmental concerns.
7 likely needs a full-scale rebuild between 494 and 41 at this point to upgrade the ancient divided highway (with further minor intersection removal and an interchange at CSAH 101), but that's certainly well beyond funding capabilities right now.
We talked a bit about 7 inside of 494 a few months back, but the one stretch that they shouldn't wait much longer to figure something out with is between the Blake and Texas intersections in front of Knollwood, and the more things that get built like the CFA that went in at the corner of the Texas intersection and the strip mall with Jersey Mike's/BWW Express at Blake will make this more and more difficult to address.
I agree 100% about the Texas / Blake area on 7. Building interchanges on 7 at Wooddale and Louisiana was a good idea, especially because the Louisiana interchange makes it easier for emergency vehicles and patients to get from 7 to Methodist Hospital. However, westbound traffic on 7 goes up the hill west of Louisiana then after the crest of the hill has to slow down quickly if the traffic light at Texas is red.
The former site of Atlas Cold Storage on Blake south of 7 is going to be redeveloped into a high rise residential complex, and an empty overflow parking lot across from Texa Tonka mall at the Texas / Minnetonka intersection is also being turned into high rise residential housing. Further north, a parcel of land on the east side of Louisiana between 27th Street and the Burlington Northern tracks is for sale, and will likely be turned into high rise housing, too. Once these complexes are complete, the congestion on 7 in this area is going to get worse, and it doesn't seem like St Louis Park has any plans to address the issue.
The green line extension (when it finally gets built) will help with reducing future congestion particularly at the cold storage facility.
While congestion will get worse I don't see it being that bad as the main problem which is the safety of the Blake intersection. Iirc it's one of the most dangerous in the state. Also they should really look at closing off the Texas intersection. Access can still be provided thru Blake and Louisiana. At the very least though they need flashing lights and big signs west of Louisiana warning that a traffic light is ahead and to be prepared for stopped traffic.
Quote from: Trademark on February 22, 2022, 01:11:43 PM
Also they should really look at closing off the Texas intersection. Access can still be provided thru Blake and Louisiana. At the very least though they need flashing lights and big signs west of Louisiana warning that a traffic light is ahead and to be prepared for stopped traffic.
I don't think closing off Texas is a realistic option (at least not to the north), because it's where the main entrances are to Cub and CFA.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 22, 2022, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Trademark on February 22, 2022, 01:11:43 PM
Also they should really look at closing off the Texas intersection. Access can still be provided thru Blake and Louisiana. At the very least though they need flashing lights and big signs west of Louisiana warning that a traffic light is ahead and to be prepared for stopped traffic.
I don't think closing off Texas is a realistic option (at least not to the north), because it's where the main entrances are to Cub and CFA.
They would still be accessible thru 36th street and a stub road. Especially if an interchange was added at Blake.
Quote from: rhen_var on January 04, 2022, 04:54:47 PM
The I-90/US-52 interchange will be reconstructed starting in 2024, possibly adding a flyover ramp from SB US-52 to EB I-90:
https://krocnews.com/major-upgrades-to-rochester-area-interchange-to-begin-in-2024/
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/i90-hwy52/index.html
Hopefully this project will eliminate both "left exits" and transform it into a true freeway-to-freeway interchange.
Concept is now available on the project website in the meeting presentation and in the news article: https://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/mndot-plans-25-million-project-to-upgrade-i-90-highway-52-interchange (https://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/mndot-plans-25-million-project-to-upgrade-i-90-highway-52-interchange)
Significant improvements to what is currently there today, seems like this will address the issues at the interchange.
Quote from: Roadguy on February 25, 2022, 09:59:34 PM
Quote from: rhen_var on January 04, 2022, 04:54:47 PM
The I-90/US-52 interchange will be reconstructed starting in 2024, possibly adding a flyover ramp from SB US-52 to EB I-90:
https://krocnews.com/major-upgrades-to-rochester-area-interchange-to-begin-in-2024/
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/i90-hwy52/index.html
Hopefully this project will eliminate both "left exits" and transform it into a true freeway-to-freeway interchange.
Concept is now available on the project website in the meeting presentation and in the news article: https://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/mndot-plans-25-million-project-to-upgrade-i-90-highway-52-interchange (https://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/mndot-plans-25-million-project-to-upgrade-i-90-highway-52-interchange)
Significant improvements to what is currently there today, seems like this will address the issues at the interchange.
To summarize:
-Flyover from SB 52 to EB 90 and new ramp for NB-EB to tie into the flyover
-Improvements for WB 90-NB 52 access
-EB-SB, SB-WB and WB-SB movements will remain at-grade left turns
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 25, 2022, 10:17:06 PM
Quote from: Roadguy on February 25, 2022, 09:59:34 PM
Quote from: rhen_var on January 04, 2022, 04:54:47 PM
The I-90/US-52 interchange will be reconstructed starting in 2024, possibly adding a flyover ramp from SB US-52 to EB I-90:
https://krocnews.com/major-upgrades-to-rochester-area-interchange-to-begin-in-2024/
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/i90-hwy52/index.html
Hopefully this project will eliminate both "left exits" and transform it into a true freeway-to-freeway interchange.
Concept is now available on the project website in the meeting presentation and in the news article: https://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/mndot-plans-25-million-project-to-upgrade-i-90-highway-52-interchange (https://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/mndot-plans-25-million-project-to-upgrade-i-90-highway-52-interchange)
Significant improvements to what is currently there today, seems like this will address the issues at the interchange.
To summarize:
-Flyover from SB 52 to EB 90 and new ramp for NB-EB to tie into the flyover
-Improvements for WB 90-NB 52 access
-EB-SB, SB-WB and WB-SB movements will remain at-grade left turns
Interesting that they are still going to use the left turn onto the loop ramp for SB-WB instead of adding a direct right turn ramp. Doing so would have only left a single at-grade turn from the perspective of those going from freeway-to-freeway (the left turn from WB I-90 to SB US-52 will still cross over freeway traffic).
I know there's some topography to deal with for a direct SB->WB ramp, so I can understand why they didn't include that given the low volume for that movement. The cost of the earth moving and additional r/w probably didn't make the cut. The way the highways in that area lay out, only low amounts of local traffic need to get on I-90 EB from US 52 SB. US 63 handles all of your Rochester to I-90 WB traffic.
It's about what I would expect for this interchange.
Subtle thing that's very clever: shifting the WB I-90 loop on-ramp so they can flatten the geometry on the WB->NB ramp with lower impacts to the floodplain of Badger Run.
One minor note: I know it's typically MnDOT practice not to repeat "redundant" control cities after passing the first exit to a city (in this case, most traffic on eastbound 90 would have taken US 63 to Rochester, so Rochester is not signed again at US 52), but Rochester is big enough that it's dumb to omit it from eastbound 90. I hope it gets added in the new signs for the rebuilt interchange.
I understand why Chatfield is signed, but they should also sign Rochester as well.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 14, 2022, 02:40:38 PM
I understand why Chatfield is signed, but they should also sign Rochester as well.
Rochester is at least signed at the bottom of the EB exit ramp. Incidentally, Chatfield is not signed westbound because MN 74 handles that movement from I-90 (but also signed at the bottom of the ramp from WB 90).
Today's STrib says MnDoT is planning open houses for an extension of 610 west from I-94. It seems like the extension will be a divided highway, not a freeway like the rest of 610, which, I think, is a mistake because of the inevitable congestion that will develop once the road is open. Here's a link to the article:
https://www.startribune.com/maple-grove-seeks-to-extend-hwy-610/600157817/
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on March 21, 2022, 04:32:15 AM
Today's STrib says MnDoT is planning open houses for an extension of 610 west from I-94. It seems like the extension will be a divided highway, not a freeway like the rest of 610, which, I think, is a mistake because of the inevitable congestion that will develop once the road is open. Here's a link to the article:
https://www.startribune.com/maple-grove-seeks-to-extend-hwy-610/600157817/
For such a short section only to connect to County 30 I don't see the need for a freeway there.
Quote from: Trademark on March 21, 2022, 08:59:25 AM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on March 21, 2022, 04:32:15 AM
Today's STrib says MnDoT is planning open houses for an extension of 610 west from I-94. It seems like the extension will be a divided highway, not a freeway like the rest of 610, which, I think, is a mistake because of the inevitable congestion that will develop once the road is open. Here's a link to the article:
https://www.startribune.com/maple-grove-seeks-to-extend-hwy-610/600157817/
For such a short section only to connect to County 30 I don't see the need for a freeway there.
Though, adding about a mile or so to the highway...won't that mean they'll have to renumber all the exits.... most of which were *just* numbered last year?
As I understand it, the extension will be a county route, not a state route. No need to renumber exits.
Quote from: froggie on March 21, 2022, 11:46:58 PM
As I understand it, the extension will be a county route, not a state route. No need to renumber exits.
Ah...I figured that since MNDoT was commissioning the construction, that they'd sign it MN-610. Though signing it Hennepin CSAH-610 does make more sense.
MnDOT hasn't done its annual press release of 2022 projects yet (that will probably come in about a week or so), but the first major new 2022 project will kick off Monday on US 10 in Anoka, including extending the freeway northwest past Thurston/Cutters Grove and replacing the Rum River bridge. This is one of the most decrepit stretches of freeway in the metro and long overdue for upgrades.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy10-anoka/index.html
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 23, 2022, 08:38:18 PM
MnDOT hasn't done its annual press release of 2022 projects yet (that will probably come in about a week or so), but the first major new 2022 project will kick off Monday on US 10 in Anoka, including extending the freeway northwest past Thurston/Cutters Grove and replacing the Rum River bridge. This is one of the most decrepit stretches of freeway in the metro and long overdue for upgrades.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy10-anoka/index.html
I am 100% certain that new exit numbers will be added along that stretch in Anoka.
The single-lane traffic on 10 through Anoka this year is going to be painful. VERY painful.
Quote from: froggie on March 23, 2022, 11:58:43 PM
The single-lane traffic on 10 through Anoka this year is going to be painful. VERY painful.
If only Northstar Commuter Rail wasn't a joke
Quote from: Trademark on March 24, 2022, 12:00:35 AM
Quote from: froggie on March 23, 2022, 11:58:43 PM
The single-lane traffic on 10 through Anoka this year is going to be painful. VERY painful.
If only Northstar Commuter Rail wasn't a joke
Well, you can thank certain political persuasions in St. Paul for that. But hey, the upcoming Twins season will be an unrestricted 81-game slate to try to offset some of the costs... :/
Sharing this from the Double Permissive Left Turns thread, has anyone been to Elk River and seen the new signal at US-10 and Proctor Ave and may be able to comment on how it operates?
Quote from: jakeroot on March 24, 2022, 08:45:30 PM
Quote from: Hobart on March 24, 2022, 05:23:21 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 24, 2022, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Hobart on March 24, 2022, 12:03:43 AM
I found a third [double permissive left turn involving an option lane] in Elk River.
Could you indicate where? I glanced around but didn't see any specific locations with the option-lane double permissive left turn setup like the two just mentioned.
So, this is what happens when I don't proofread my own posts because I post too late at night.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3077572,-93.5774317,3a,75y,184.13h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skLHdqbvOPrTIFWd3Mw33dg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DkLHdqbvOPrTIFWd3Mw33dg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D182.91048%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Sorry for the runaround.
All good! Thanks for sharing that. No wonder I didn't spot it while browsing overhead, it was just installed and not shown on globe satellite view. Although it is shown on non-globe satellite view...note to self, turn off globe satellite mode when looking for most recent imagery!
In terms of the setup, it seems like there may be some path overlap. I'm curious when it's set to operate, I'm able to see GSV imagery showing it operating, but it's operating more as a split-phase intersection.
I highly doubt MnDOT is doing permissive left turns here. Their modus operandi for signals that include option lanes is split-phase. I was also under the impression that they were using 4-lens signals for protected-only (why complicate things by having 2 different types of left turn signals), so I'm curious as to why they used 3-lens LT signals on 10 at that intersection, while the intersection at Upland and points west all use 4-lens LT signals.
While we're talking about US 169 in Elk River, MNDoT has announced they will be converting 169 to a full freeway through Elk River. Construction begins next month, and will last through 2024.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/elkriverfreeway/trafficplans.html
The freeway conversion is long overdue, but making the road one lane in each direction in the construction zones is going to be brutal, especially on Friday and Sunday afternoons when people are driving to / from their cabins.
169 becoming freeway through Elk River was announced a year or two ago when they got the funding finalized. It'll be painful, but like with 10 through Anoka, it'll be necessary to get the finished product. There's other routes that drivers can take up to the lake though...one nice thing about having a road network that at least has some semblance of a grid...
This is just an aside, but I wish MnDOT would simply put the SP number somewhere on spotlight project pages. It took clicking through four large PDFs to find one that had the SP for the US 169 Elk River improvement (7106-87). (eDocs tells me that although there was a CMGC procurement in 2019, the construction phase was advertised separately, with bids opened last February 18. As-awarded plans are not yet available.)
Quote from: froggie on March 25, 2022, 10:47:39 AM
I highly doubt MnDOT is doing permissive left turns here. Their modus operandi for signals that include option lanes is split-phase. I was also under the impression that they were using 4-lens signals for protected-only (why complicate things by having 2 different types of left turn signals), so I'm curious as to why they used 3-lens LT signals on 10 at that intersection, while the intersection at Upland and points west all use 4-lens LT signals.
Minnesota definitely has option lane double left turns that use permissive phase, they are actually famous (in the traffic control world) for the exact setup they just installed at that Elk River intersection.
The first was in Eden Prairie,
here at Valley View and Prairie Center (https://goo.gl/maps/ZMxax6sUNLDGg9qQ9), where Valley View turns and Prairie Center continues south. At least at the time of filming, the permissive mode operated only during off-peak hours. While it's possible that this intersection no longer operates in permissive mode, the brand new intersection in Elk River with the bimodal doghouse is of identical design, so Minnesota must still have some interest in this kind of setup.
https://youtu.be/onyZQcgkMOw
All this makes me glad I moved out of Elk River. I used US 10 less often than I-94, but maybe one out of every 5 or 6 commutes to the metro took me down 10 through Anoka.
MnDOT put out its annual spring press release today.
New projects include:
-the aforementioned US 10 new interchange construction, existing interchange improvements, and river bridge replacement in Anoka
-upgrading US 169 in Elk River to freeway between 10/101 and Sherburne CSAH 33 - this as far as I can tell will include eliminating the two left turns currently at the 10/169/101 interchange, so there will no longer be access from EB 10 to NB 169, or WB 10/169 to SB 101
-widening US 14 to four lanes from New Ulm to Nicollet, which next year will finally finish the four-lane link between Rochester and New Ulm
-widening the "North Gap" of MN 23 to four lanes between Richmond and the Paynesville bypass
-roundabout at south junction of US 61 and MN 316 south of Hastings
-RCI at west split of US 53 and MN 194 north of Duluth
Continuing projects
-I-35/535 Can of Worms in Duluth
-grade separating MN 29 and MN 55 in Glenwood
-rehabilitation of I-94 in downtown St. Paul
-US 52 between Zumbrota and Cannon Falls, with the centerpiece this year being a new interchange at MN 57
-rehabilitation of MN 65 Third Ave Bridge in downtown Minneapolis
-completion of new MN 36/Manning Ave interchange near Stillwater
News release: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/news/2022/03/31-construction.html
Full list of projects: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction/
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 31, 2022, 06:41:41 PM
-upgrading US 169 in Elk River to freeway between 10/101 and Sherburne CSAH 33 - this as far as I can tell will include eliminating the two left turns currently at the 10/169/101 interchange, so there will no longer be access from EB 10 to NB 169, or WB 10/169 to SB 101
Will still be a full access interchange. What's happening is that, instead of left turns from 101/169, the left turns will be from 10 for the two movements you mention.
Quote from: froggie on April 01, 2022, 12:10:04 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 31, 2022, 06:41:41 PM
-upgrading US 169 in Elk River to freeway between 10/101 and Sherburne CSAH 33 - this as far as I can tell will include eliminating the two left turns currently at the 10/169/101 interchange, so there will no longer be access from EB 10 to NB 169, or WB 10/169 to SB 101
Will still be a full access interchange. What's happening is that, instead of left turns from 101/169, the left turns will be from 10 for the two movements you mention.
Oh, I see where I missed those. Thank you. That sucks that it will likely mean at least one new EB-only stoplight on 10 for that WB-SB, maybe an additional mirror WB-only one for EB-NB. I would prefer they have no direct EB 10-NB 169 access at all, and just send that movement down Main St in Elk River since anyone making that transition is likely already doing that anyway.
In an ideal world, they probably could have done away with both EB 10-NB 169 and SB 169-WB 10 and made WB 10-SB 101 a loop ramp.
I believe MnDOT still has a long-term goal of a full freeway-to-freeway interchange there. It's also possible that FHWA (given the use of Federal funding) may have frowned on removing existing access movements even though none of the routes is an Interstate, but I'm less certain on that one.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 24, 2022, 12:46:50 AM
Quote from: Trademark on March 24, 2022, 12:00:35 AM
Quote from: froggie on March 23, 2022, 11:58:43 PM
The single-lane traffic on 10 through Anoka this year is going to be painful. VERY painful.
If only Northstar Commuter Rail wasn't a joke
Well, you can thank certain political persuasions in St. Paul for that. But hey, the upcoming Twins season will be an unrestricted 81-game slate to try to offset some of the costs... :/
Or maybe not.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/metro-transit-and-anoka-co-cite-costs-as-decision-to-halt-northstar-train-service-to-twins-games/89-4e9e64e2-5e50-4e67-b6b6-f73637bdc151
Today's Strib says St Paul is planning to replace two bridges on Kellogg Boulevard, one at the east end of downtown and the other at the west end. The existing bridges will be demolished next year, with replacement bridges opening in 2025. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/st-pauls-kellogg-blvd-bridges-need-140-million-in-rebuilds/600164218/
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on April 12, 2022, 08:03:27 AM
Today's Strib says St Paul is planning to replace two bridges on Kellogg Boulevard, one at the east end of downtown and the other at the west end. The existing bridges will be demolished next year, with replacement bridges opening in 2025. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/st-pauls-kellogg-blvd-bridges-need-140-million-in-rebuilds/600164218/
For those who aren't familiar with St. Paul, these are impressive viaducts that unless you know where to look you wouldn't even really know you weren't on stable ground. The Science Museum parking ramp if I recall has some of the best views of the underside and supports - and Kellogg's road deck is a lot higher off the ground than you would think too.
Was the former US 52 elevated viaduct paralleling N. 4th Street, between 2nd Ave. N. and Interstate 94 in Minneapolis ever to have been part of a downtown Minneapolis freeway? Perhaps connecting Interstate 94 with the former MN 122 SE Washington Ave. spur? Or is it like the Chicago spurs connecting Intestates 90/94 with W. Ohio St. and W. Ontario St., and the one connecting Interstates 55/90/94 with W. Cermak Rd.?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 13, 2022, 09:45:46 PM
Was the former US 52 elevated viaduct paralleling N. 4th Street, between 2nd Ave. N. and Interstate 94 in Minneapolis ever to have been part of a downtown Minneapolis freeway? Perhaps connecting Interstate 94 with the former MN 122 SE Washington Ave. spur? Or is it like the Chicago spurs connecting Intestates 90/94 with W. Ohio St. and W. Ontario St., and the one connecting Interstates 55/90/94 with W. Cermak Rd.?
No, those viaducts were related to the completion of I-394 (likely as the spiritual connections between 94 EB-394 EB and 394 WB-94 WB). The 4th St viaduct ramps have shot up to the top of the list of targets for removal in recent years due to the rejuvenation of the North Loop from the decaying industry the area largely was when the viaducts were built. And honestly, few people would miss them if they were torn down.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 13, 2022, 10:09:59 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 13, 2022, 09:45:46 PM
Was the former US 52 elevated viaduct paralleling N. 4th Street, between 2nd Ave. N. and Interstate 94 in Minneapolis ever to have been part of a downtown Minneapolis freeway? Perhaps connecting Interstate 94 with the former MN 122 SE Washington Ave. spur? Or is it like the Chicago spurs connecting Intestates 90/94 with W. Ohio St. and W. Ontario St., and the one connecting Interstates 55/90/94 with W. Cermak Rd.?
No, those viaducts were related to the completion of I-394 (likely as the spiritual connections between 94 EB-394 EB and 394 WB-94 WB). The 4th St viaduct ramps have shot up to the top of the list of targets for removal in recent years due to the rejuvenation of the North Loop from the decaying industry the area largely was when the viaducts were built. And honestly, few people would miss them if they were torn down.
Actually, those viaducts are entirely unrelated to I-394 aside from having an entrance to one of the I-394 parking garages. They were intended solely as a way for I-94 traffic to get into and out of downtown given how I-94 loops around to Lowry Hill to "bypass" downtown proper.
Today's Star Tribune says MNDoT has thrown out their previous studies about how to improve Highway 252 through Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center, and will do a fresh set of studies:
https://www.startribune.com/mndot-back-to-square-one-with-redo-of-one-of-states-most-dangerous-roads/600165680/
The article goes on to say that although 252 has five of the state's most dangerous intersections, local community groups are concerned about potential changes to the route.
Personally, I think that, because 252 is a death trap, it should be converted to a full freeway. It's unfortunate that NIMBYs are delaying, and possibly preventing altogether, the needed improvements to the road....just as NIMBYs prevented the safety improvements to US 12 in the west metro that would have saved many lives.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on April 18, 2022, 09:15:20 AM
Today's Star Tribune says MNDoT has thrown out their previous studies about how to improve Highway 252 through Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center, and will do a fresh set of studies:
https://www.startribune.com/mndot-back-to-square-one-with-redo-of-one-of-states-most-dangerous-roads/600165680/
The article goes on to say that although 252 has five of the state's most dangerous intersections, local community groups are concerned about potential changes to the route.
Personally, I think that, because 252 is a death trap, it should be converted to a full freeway. It's unfortunate that NIMBYs are delaying, and possibly preventing altogether, the needed improvements to the road....just as NIMBYs prevented the safety improvements to US 12 in the west metro that would have saved many lives.
We had a conversation about 252 a year or two back that the current Brooklyn Center city government seems to be a lot more critical of a full freeway than the previous city administrations had been. I don't know if they had some kind of influence on this.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 19, 2022, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on April 18, 2022, 09:15:20 AM
Today's Star Tribune says MNDoT has thrown out their previous studies about how to improve Highway 252 through Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center, and will do a fresh set of studies:
https://www.startribune.com/mndot-back-to-square-one-with-redo-of-one-of-states-most-dangerous-roads/600165680/
The article goes on to say that although 252 has five of the state's most dangerous intersections, local community groups are concerned about potential changes to the route.
Personally, I think that, because 252 is a death trap, it should be converted to a full freeway. It's unfortunate that NIMBYs are delaying, and possibly preventing altogether, the needed improvements to the road....just as NIMBYs prevented the safety improvements to US 12 in the west metro that would have saved many lives.
We had a conversation about 252 a year or two back that the current Brooklyn Center city government seems to be a lot more critical of a full freeway than the previous city administrations had been. I don't know if they had some kind of influence on this.
I did a little research on my own. I think I found much the same info as in the Star-Tribune article. I found this article on something called CC Media
Quote
HIGHWAY 252 FREEWAY CONVERSION PROJECT PUSHED BACK (https://ccxmedia.org/news/highway-252-freeway-conversion-project-pushed-back/)
The debate about converting Highway 252 into a freeway through Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center continues. The project which aims to reduce crashes has hit another speed bump that will push the finish line back once again.
Construction was supposed to start in 2023, but MnDOT, the Federal Highway Administration, and Hennepin County are going to conduct a more thorough environmental review, known as an environmental impact statement. The review means the project won't start until 2025.
"Unfortunately the plans that they did have, had a lot of flaws in them and a lot of violations on the state's safety codes on how it has to be built," said Stephen Cooper, who is part of the 252 Safety Task Force. "We had no involvement in this, but apparently the state decided to push things back to do a better job of investigating how to build this right."
Rest of article linked at headline. But the third paragraph has the part I was interested in.
I had no idea who Mr Cooper is, so more research. The quote below is from his bio on the Task Force page (https://www.highway252.org/stephen-cooper-1), so here's probably a hint as to why.
Quote
My concerns about the changes to 252 are centered on making sure a safer, more beneficial, road for all of us in Brooklyn Center is created and that we do not lock in a dangerous road for decades to come. Up to now, Brooklyn Center needs have been largely ignored and safety has been de-prioritized so that millions of more cars per year can come down 252, that currently use I 35, 169 or other north-south routes. I have been focused on understanding the strengths and weaknesses of plans for 252 since 2013. Surprisingly, previous plans were proposed and voted on without an environmental impact statement nor disclosing the plans' failure to follow basic state and federal safety rules. It was only because of community involvement that these fatal weaknesses were revealed. We need a safer, community friendly and less polluting highway 252, not one that locks in the bad planning and execution of the existing road with intersections/interchanges too close together to be safe. To assist at assuring a better 252, the task force has put in thousands of hours learning what the safety rules are and what the risks are for not following them. We have met with virtually every major player involved in the reconstruction, and we have maintained transparency with the community including doing a survey of community attitudes and beliefs about 252 as well as having open meetings and frequent reports to members of the community. A thoughtfully designed 252 can be a great asset to Brooklyn Center and Brooklyn Park. A poorly designed one would waste hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars, harm the community and lock in those conditions for the next generation.
Yes, it does appear it's a NIMBY problem. I will have to say he does have a point. A freeway would effectively bisect their towns and cut off much of both towns from the Mississippi River. There is already a pedestrian bridge over 252 at 85th Av N. My guess is the locals want a lot of mitigation. Sound walls. Several pedestrian/bicycle crossings. Retaining transit stops after expressway conversion. Vegetation along the corridor for both beautification and to reduce pollution. Possibly even a short park/tunnel ala Phoenix I-10 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papago_Freeway_Tunnel). It could simply be satisfying most of the community demands and MN 252 becomes a freeway to MN 610. There will always be some who are against any changes and may want the highway closed altogether, but it's a matter of satisfying the most of the community (including those in minority communities), not every whiny BANANA. 37% of those surveyed are in favor of the freeway according to their own survey (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/611c4012353e7c0c7379518d/t/615642d8328de70af1e2ed70/1633043161233/2020+Hwy+252+Survey+Results.pdf). 48% want the speed limit at 55 mph.
I have the impression that as long as we ignore the extremists on both sides, the highway could be improved. The survey seems to emphasize safety as a critical issue. It's going to be tricky but people can learn to compromise. Just ignore the BANANAs.
Yesterday, work began to widen US 14 to 4 lanes between New Ulm and Nicollet, which means when the work is completed in the fall of 2023, it will be 4 lanes all the way from New Ulm to Rochester.
The project will also reroute 14 on a new terrain bypass of Courtland.
https://www.startribune.com/ground-broken-on-final-leg-of-hwy-14-expansion-between-rochester-and-new-ulm/600166140/
It will be interesting to see if 14 ever gets widened to the west, to Sleepy Eye and the cities further west.
Quote from: Papa EmeritusIt will be interesting to see if 14 ever gets widened to the west, to Sleepy Eye and the cities further west.
I doubt it. Volumes west of New Ulm don't justify it, and MnDOT told me that 85% of the traffic to/from the east on 14 has an origin or destination in New Ulm so a bypass wasn't warranted either.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on February 22, 2022, 08:31:40 AM
I agree 100% about the Texas / Blake area on 7. Building interchanges on 7 at Wooddale and Louisiana was a good idea, especially because the Louisiana interchange makes it easier for emergency vehicles and patients to get from 7 to Methodist Hospital. However, westbound traffic on 7 goes up the hill west of Louisiana then after the crest of the hill has to slow down quickly if the traffic light at Texas is red.
The former site of Atlas Cold Storage on Blake south of 7 is going to be redeveloped into a high rise residential complex, and an empty overflow parking lot across from Texa Tonka mall at the Texas / Minnetonka intersection is also being turned into high rise residential housing. Further north, a parcel of land on the east side of Louisiana between 27th Street and the Burlington Northern tracks is for sale, and will likely be turned into high rise housing, too. Once these complexes are complete, the congestion on 7 in this area is going to get worse, and it doesn't seem like St Louis Park has any plans to address the issue.
The Texa-Tonka and Louisiana projects likely have far more implications for Minnetonka Blvd, Louisiana Ave, and Cedar Lake Rd traffic headed toward 394, 169, or 100, IMO. I live 3/4 mile north of 7 in SLP, and rarely use 7 to go anywhere. There are far easier and better ways to get where I'm going, thanks to the plethora of interchanges on 169 and 100.
Thankfully, SLP is studying the Louisiana/Cedar Lake intersection and surrounding area, and Hennepin Cty is studying improvements to Minnetonka Blvd.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on April 20, 2022, 08:33:03 AM
It will be interesting to see if 14 ever gets widened to the west, to Sleepy Eye and the cities further west.
It's not going to happen. They studied a full bypass of New Ulm and found very little thru traffic there.
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 24, 2022, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on April 20, 2022, 08:33:03 AM
It will be interesting to see if 14 ever gets widened to the west, to Sleepy Eye and the cities further west.
It's not going to happen. They studied a full bypass of New Ulm and found very little thru traffic there.
The proof of this was where MN 15 was made to be the through movement at the new 14/15 interchange, not 14.
One could argue that the interchange design is due to inertia, given it's also the pre-existing condition. The hill climb/descent on 15 also played a factor.
As I mentioned upthread, MnDOT specifically told me that the O/D data is why they didn't look at a 14 bypass.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 25, 2022, 05:31:15 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 24, 2022, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on April 20, 2022, 08:33:03 AM
It will be interesting to see if 14 ever gets widened to the west, to Sleepy Eye and the cities further west.
It's not going to happen. They studied a full bypass of New Ulm and found very little thru traffic there.
The proof of this was where MN 15 was made to be the through movement at the new 14/15 interchange, not 14.
Looks like one intersection on US-14 in the general area was converted from an interchange to a rotary.
^ Really a roundabout but since you're from Mass we'll forgive the oversight...😊
Yes, that was the former folded-diamond at Front St. They needed to replace the bridge (which also bridges over the rail tracks) but volumes didn't warrant keeping the full interchange. Also slows traffic coming into town for the 2 blocks of neighborhood before reaching Broadway/MN 68.
Quote from: froggie on April 27, 2022, 12:49:03 AM
^ Really a roundabout but since you're from Mass we'll forgive the oversight...😊
LOL.. I've also been known to still call MN State Highways "routes" too. 🤣
Why isn't there a dedicated Wikipedia page on US Route 14 in Minnesota? Someone should definitely do one at some point.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.state.mn.us%2Fd6%2Fprojects%2Fi90-hwy52%2Fimages%2FI-90_Hwy52_Current_Lefts.png&hash=0abc93261cbb512d326a88463f743b0c012816e2)
Found this graphic buried on MnDOT's I-90/US 52 project page. It may explain why they're only looking at one flyover (SB 52 to EB 90) and not adding additional ramps to remove what are apparently low-count left turn movements.
Quote from: froggie on May 05, 2022, 03:22:23 PM
Found this graphic buried on MnDOT's I-90/US 52 project page. It may explain why they're only looking at one flyover (SB 52 to EB 90) and not adding additional ramps to remove what are apparently low-count left turn movements.
I think it's the entire explanation. The SB/WB and EB/NB movements of 52/90 are handled by US 63. WB/SB and NB/EB are mostly going to use MN 74 or CSAH 7. There's just no need for major changes beyond the needed SB/EB upgrade.
Met Council Regional Solicitation Projects were submitted and posted this Spring, this is for distribution of federal funding to non-state agencies in the metro area. Helps a person see where local priorities are for transportation infrastructure improvements in the metro area: https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Planning-2/Transportation-Funding/Regional-Solicitation/Results-of-Solicitations/2022-Applications.aspx (https://metrocouncil.org/Transportation/Planning-2/Transportation-Funding/Regional-Solicitation/Results-of-Solicitations/2022-Applications.aspx)
Some interesting requests in there. Amongst the more major highway-related proposals:
- 3 proposed DDI's: I-94/MN 101, US 169/CSAH 130/85th Ave, and MN 100/West 50th St/Vernon Ave
- Completion of a full interchange at I-35E and County Rd J on the Ramsey/Anoka County line. Ramp terminals would be roundabouts which would also access the adjacent frontage/backage roads.
- Completion of a full interchange at MN 610/CSAH 1/East River Rd. Except now they're not proposing the WB ramps to tie directly into East River/Foley...instead, they'd tie into East River just south of the existing WB on-ramp and the proposed WB off-ramp would loop over itself in the space bounded by East River, Foley, the railroad, and 610.
- A hybrid interchange on MN 65 at 105th and CSAH 12/109th in Blaine. Fundamentally a diamond at 109th except the NB off-ramp would be at 105th. One-way frontage roads would run on each side of 65 between 105th and 109th, intersecting both in a dogbone configuration (i.e. like roundabouts).
We just can't get away from building freeways that end in traffic signals at another freeway.
Quote from: Mdcastle on May 12, 2022, 11:10:21 AM
We just can't get away from building freeways that end in traffic signals at another freeway.
Beyond the summer traffic issues, the commuter headaches and trucks that have come with the explosive growth of Rogers along with Wright and Sherburne counties to me makes anything short of a free-flowing SB 101-EB 94 movement worthless.
Reading through latest NW River Crossing study, MnDOT mentions the 94/101 interchange. Cost estimate of the DDI (in 2019) was $22-26M. Meanwhile, the cost estimate for a SB-to-EB flyover was over $100M. So it's no shock that they're pursuing the DDI...it'll be easier to fund.
Meanwhile, it looks like MnDOT will be permanently realigning MN 67 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy67granitefallstoecho/index.html) onto MN 274 and Yellow Medicine CSAH 2 in order to get around the slope failure near the Minnesota and Yellow Medicine Rivers. Apparently, spending $30M to fix a road that has an AADT around 400 is too much. And frankly I don't blame them there.
Quote from: froggie on May 14, 2022, 08:58:31 AM
Meanwhile, it looks like MnDOT will be permanently realigning MN 67 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy67granitefallstoecho/index.html) onto MN 274 and Yellow Medicine CSAH 2 in order to get around the slope failure near the Minnesota and Yellow Medicine Rivers. Apparently, spending $30M to fix a road that has an AADT around 400 is too much. And frankly I don't blame them there.
There's a couple block stretch of MN 274 on the west side of Wood Lake that will be turned back to Yellow Medicine County.
This will also significantly extend the (currently very short) wrong-way duplex of MN 23 and MN 67 well to the south of downtown Granite Falls, the only such state highway overlap I'm aware of in Minnesota.
I drove US 10 through Anoka and Elk River yesterday.
-US 10 through Anoka, as mentioned above, is not a fun drive right now. Very narrow temporary single thru lane with very short turn lanes. The temporary uncontrolled left turn to access Fairoak Avenue from WB 10/169 looks absolutely terrifying.
-A temporary stoplight has been set up on the east fringe of downtown Elk River where traffic going from WB 10 to SB 101 U-turns onto eastbound 10 to get to 101. The NB 101 bridge over US 10 has been removed.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:49:57 PM
I drove US 10 through Anoka and Elk River yesterday.
-US 10 through Anoka, as mentioned above, is not a fun drive right now. Very narrow temporary single thru lane with very short turn lanes. The temporary uncontrolled left turn to access Fairoak Avenue from WB 10/169 looks absolutely terrifying.
-A temporary stoplight has been set up on the east fringe of downtown Elk River where traffic going from WB 10 to SB 101 U-turns onto eastbound 10 to get to 101. The NB 101 bridge over US 10 has been removed.
We are heading up north in a few months from Oklahoma. We usually take 35 to 494 to 94 to 101 to 169. Given the construction, are we better off in finding an alternate route?
Quote from: rte66man on May 27, 2022, 05:39:41 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:49:57 PM
I drove US 10 through Anoka and Elk River yesterday.
-US 10 through Anoka, as mentioned above, is not a fun drive right now. Very narrow temporary single thru lane with very short turn lanes. The temporary uncontrolled left turn to access Fairoak Avenue from WB 10/169 looks absolutely terrifying.
-A temporary stoplight has been set up on the east fringe of downtown Elk River where traffic going from WB 10 to SB 101 U-turns onto eastbound 10 to get to 101. The NB 101 bridge over US 10 has been removed.
We are heading up north in a few months from Oklahoma. We usually take 35 to 494 to 94 to 101 to 169. Given the construction, are we better off in finding an alternate route?
I guess I would need more information about where specifically you're headed. If it's to Lake Mille Lacs or somewhere on 169, you're probably stuck with 101/169 still being your best option. But if it's to the Brainerd Lakes region or involves 371, you might be willing to try MN 24 or MN 15 to US 10 to get to 371 (knowing 169 to MN 18 is also a popular route to Brainerd).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 28, 2022, 12:24:22 AM
Quote from: rte66man on May 27, 2022, 05:39:41 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:49:57 PM
I drove US 10 through Anoka and Elk River yesterday.
-US 10 through Anoka, as mentioned above, is not a fun drive right now. Very narrow temporary single thru lane with very short turn lanes. The temporary uncontrolled left turn to access Fairoak Avenue from WB 10/169 looks absolutely terrifying.
-A temporary stoplight has been set up on the east fringe of downtown Elk River where traffic going from WB 10 to SB 101 U-turns onto eastbound 10 to get to 101. The NB 101 bridge over US 10 has been removed.
We are heading up north in a few months from Oklahoma. We usually take 35 to 494 to 94 to 101 to 169. Given the construction, are we better off in finding an alternate route?
I guess I would need more information about where specifically you're headed. If it's to Lake Mille Lacs or somewhere on 169, you're probably stuck with 101/169 still being your best option. But if it's to the Brainerd Lakes region or involves 371, you might be willing to try MN 24 or MN 15 to US 10 to get to 371 (knowing 169 to MN 18 is also a popular route to Brainerd).
Huh. Always just heard it as "Mille Lacs" (Mill Lacks) rather than "Lake Mille Lacs".
Quote from: Rothman on May 28, 2022, 04:28:47 AM
Huh. Always just heard it as "Mille Lacs" (Mill Lacks) rather than "Lake Mille Lacs".
I hear/see both. The real shibboleth is if someone calls it by its official name of "Mille Lacs Lake", which THAT term is never used here outside of official DNR contexts.
I always thought you could tell a non-local by the way they pronounced Shakopee, Cloquet, and Wayzata.
Quote from: Mdcastle on May 28, 2022, 10:52:25 PM
I always thought you could tell a non-local by the way they pronounced Shakopee, Cloquet, and Wayzata.
As long as they watch Fargo, they'll be okay.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 28, 2022, 12:24:22 AM
Quote from: rte66man on May 27, 2022, 05:39:41 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:49:57 PM
I drove US 10 through Anoka and Elk River yesterday.
-US 10 through Anoka, as mentioned above, is not a fun drive right now. Very narrow temporary single thru lane with very short turn lanes. The temporary uncontrolled left turn to access Fairoak Avenue from WB 10/169 looks absolutely terrifying.
-A temporary stoplight has been set up on the east fringe of downtown Elk River where traffic going from WB 10 to SB 101 U-turns onto eastbound 10 to get to 101. The NB 101 bridge over US 10 has been removed.
We are heading up north in a few months from Oklahoma. We usually take 35 to 494 to 94 to 101 to 169. Given the construction, are we better off in finding an alternate route?
I guess I would need more information about where specifically you're headed. If it's to Lake Mille Lacs or somewhere on 169, you're probably stuck with 101/169 still being your best option. But if it's to the Brainerd Lakes region or involves 371, you might be willing to try MN 24 or MN 15 to US 10 to get to 371 (knowing 169 to MN 18 is also a popular route to Brainerd).
We are headed to Milaca so it looks like we are stuck with 169
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 17, 2022, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 14, 2022, 08:58:31 AM
Meanwhile, it looks like MnDOT will be permanently realigning MN 67 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy67granitefallstoecho/index.html) onto MN 274 and Yellow Medicine CSAH 2 in order to get around the slope failure near the Minnesota and Yellow Medicine Rivers. Apparently, spending $30M to fix a road that has an AADT around 400 is too much. And frankly I don't blame them there.
There's a couple block stretch of MN 274 on the west side of Wood Lake that will be turned back to Yellow Medicine County.
This will also significantly extend the (currently very short) wrong-way duplex of MN 23 and MN 67 well to the south of downtown Granite Falls, the only such state highway overlap I'm aware of in Minnesota.
Going back to MN 67 southeast of Granite Falls, I recently came upon this project website (https://hwy67project.com/) that has some interesting tidbits:
- The transfer will officially occur this fall, which is when we'll see "permanent" signage go up.
- Existing MN 67 between Granite Falls and the state park entrance will become a new route: MN 167.
- The small bit of MN 274 in Wood Lake south of CSAH 2 will become part of CSAH 6.
- The north-south leg of old MN 67 will become part of CSAH 21. At some point, Yellow Medicine County intends to revise the existing 67/21 intersection so that 21 is seamless, but there's no timeline for this yet.
- Improvements to the new MN 67 routing (along MN 274 and CSAH 2) will occur in 2023 or 2024.
- Removal of the river bridge east of the damaged section will occur in 2026. Presumably this means that a park road connecting the main park to the campground will be built by then.
Quote from: froggie on May 30, 2022, 11:46:51 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 17, 2022, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 14, 2022, 08:58:31 AM
Meanwhile, it looks like MnDOT will be permanently realigning MN 67 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy67granitefallstoecho/index.html) onto MN 274 and Yellow Medicine CSAH 2 in order to get around the slope failure near the Minnesota and Yellow Medicine Rivers. Apparently, spending $30M to fix a road that has an AADT around 400 is too much. And frankly I don't blame them there.
There's a couple block stretch of MN 274 on the west side of Wood Lake that will be turned back to Yellow Medicine County.
This will also significantly extend the (currently very short) wrong-way duplex of MN 23 and MN 67 well to the south of downtown Granite Falls, the only such state highway overlap I'm aware of in Minnesota.
Going back to MN 67 southeast of Granite Falls, I recently came upon this project website (https://hwy67project.com/) that has some interesting tidbits:
- Existing MN 67 between Granite Falls and the state park entrance will become a new route: MN 167.
This will be the first time in almost 30 years that a new state road comes into existence (not counting the MN 312 since that was a temporary designation).
Quote from: Mdcastle on May 28, 2022, 10:52:25 PM
I always thought you could tell a non-local by the way they pronounced ... Wayzata.
Huh. Learn something new every day. Thanks for prompting me to look that one up.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 28, 2022, 01:05:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 28, 2022, 04:28:47 AM
Huh. Always just heard it as "Mille Lacs" (Mill Lacks) rather than "Lake Mille Lacs".
I hear/see both. The real shibboleth is if someone calls it by its official name of "Mille Lacs Lake", which THAT term is never used here outside of official DNR contexts.
To help me remember, I just recall that the name means "Thousand Lakes Lake" or "the lake of a thousand lakes", to put it more poetically.
I was up near the Canadian border in Minnesota last week and holy cow is the Rainy River watershed flooded! Historic water levels all over the place. There were actually crews working on Memorial Day weekend to raise the roadways surface out on TH 11 as it starts to peter out among the resorts on Rainy Lake to maintain access.
And out on the water, it was truly bizarre. One can drive a boat through the woods in many places. All of the shoreline marshes were completely underwater and woe be to the property owners up there with improvements built at the water's edge. Everyone's boat houses were half submerged.
Made for tougher fishing; fewest pike I've ever caught on a fishing trip to northern Minnesota. Found some walleyes in a few spots and decent crappie bite, but at times, we were catching fish on what should be dry land.
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on May 31, 2022, 12:29:25 AM
This will be the first time in almost 30 years that a new state road comes into existence (not counting the MN 312 since that was a temporary designation).
A new number, yes, but not really a new state road in the sense that MN 336 was, though.
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 01:40:42 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on May 28, 2022, 10:52:25 PM
I always thought you could tell a non-local by the way they pronounced ... Wayzata.
Huh. Learn something new every day. Thanks for prompting me to look that one up.
There was a discussion on Facebook about place names, and it reminded me that even within the Twin Cities we have a micro version where you can tell who is from Minneapolis and who is from St. Paul by how they say "Mahtomedi". I learned it's "matt
a-mee-dye"; West Metro residents often say "mott
o-mee-dye".
(https://i.imgur.com/y3dEkA7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/g6ED8qs.jpg)
I guess they're still getting some money together to fix that. :P
Long enough for plants to muscle in.
Nah, per the previous conversation on the MN 67 reroute they're not going to spend $30 Million to fix it.
Per this news article (https://news.yahoo.com/yellow-medicine-county-supports-road-063300839.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALkbf9XwJQEcQjILfU7jFVvMFScyo2_N47rQpQF4hwbAsw2Vt1lTAAHtQWSu1r7tmC5MEYQKPiYNcHPF2L4wKhTyGlbsMEGOYUOdYLoDrJ-HP1pg3wGVwYUcjDK_KcCNs8jSDaRI7cV-hONkn5abkEtgX2e3-yoYKQHY99js7tAK), the Yellow Medicine County board has approved a Memorandum-of-Understanding for the road changes. It also mentions something not listed in MnDOT's feasibility report: apparently, using Yellow Medicine CSAH 21/Renville CSAH 10 was also considered for the MN 67 reroute.
MN 237 (a spur from I-94 to New Munich) has officially been handed over to Stearns County as it has been removed from all signage (replaced with an extension of Stearns CSAH 12).
I am amazed by the relatively quick removal process for MN 237. I mean, the process for the removal of MN 120 and MN 244 from MN 96 to Stillwater Rd have began two decades ago, yet they are still maintained by MnDOT.
Quote from: andarcondadont on June 06, 2022, 12:20:23 AM
I am amazed by the relatively quick removal process for MN 237. I mean, the process for the removal of MN 120 and MN 244 from MN 96 to Stillwater Rd have began two decades ago, yet they are still maintained by MnDOT.
It's probably easier to reach agreements with rural counties for them to take lightly-travelled rural roads than for the more heavily-trafficked urban arterials. In the metro MnDOT still hasn't fully eliminated MN 101 after nearly 35 years, though they've made a lot of progress in the last several years whittling it down to just the northern segment in Carver County still on the books (remember a few years ago or so when there were three separate broken MN 101s in Carver County? lol). There's also the complication of dealing with multiple counties on things like Robert St/MN 3/old 952A that MnDOT waved the white flag on turning over because the counties wanted too much money, MN 156, MN 96, and MN 120. I don't know which county technically carries MN 120, but given Ramsey and Washington Counties each have their own name for the street carrying MN 120, that might be an issue, maybe. Side note: who the fuck has ever called it "Geneva Avenue" anyway?
^ Washington County and/or Oakdale, apparently. North St Paul signs it as Division St.
Quote from: froggie on June 03, 2022, 10:21:33 AM
Per this news article (https://news.yahoo.com/yellow-medicine-county-supports-road-063300839.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALkbf9XwJQEcQjILfU7jFVvMFScyo2_N47rQpQF4hwbAsw2Vt1lTAAHtQWSu1r7tmC5MEYQKPiYNcHPF2L4wKhTyGlbsMEGOYUOdYLoDrJ-HP1pg3wGVwYUcjDK_KcCNs8jSDaRI7cV-hONkn5abkEtgX2e3-yoYKQHY99js7tAK), the Yellow Medicine County board has approved a Memorandum-of-Understanding for the road changes. It also mentions something not listed in MnDOT's feasibility report: apparently, using Yellow Medicine CSAH 21/Renville CSAH 10 was also considered for the MN 67 reroute.
This routing was listed in the feasibility report under Section 4.3, but it was dropped from further consideration due to the state having to add more miles and taking over a river bridge.
Thank you. Must've missed that when I skimmed the report previously.
The other thing I saw last weekend was on a part of I-94 that they have finished the rebuild/widen on near MN 24 - holy ISTHA-spec lane striping, Batman. Those longer, thicker, brighter broken white stripes.
No pic?
I supposed since everyone else is talking about the new Brooklyn Park Taco Bell:
(https://i.imgur.com/TmAgujX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0gknjRX.jpg)
Quote from: Mdcastle on June 11, 2022, 02:06:03 PM
I supposed since everyone else is talking about the new Brooklyn Park Taco Bell:
I've been asked multiple times this week since it opened if I've gone. Aside from the zoo it is going to be for at least the first week or so, I have three Taco Bells roughly equidistant surrounding my house (not even including the one in Minnetonka off of 7). Why the heck would I drive a half hour for it when I can drive less than 10 minutes?
Nobody in my home circles has even mentioned it. Granted, the vast majority of my friends and family in the Twin Cities live in the south Metro.
Quote from: andarcondadont on June 06, 2022, 12:20:23 AM
I am amazed by the relatively quick removal process for MN 237. I mean, the process for the removal of MN 120 and MN 244 from MN 96 to Stillwater Rd have began two decades ago, yet they are still maintained by MnDOT.
https://www.startribune.com/mayor-blocks-construction-detour-sets-off-road-fight/600181456/
I believe this is about part of the 244 alignment.
^ It's a former segment of 244, but according to MnDOT data it's already been turned back to Washington County.
Quote from: froggie on June 14, 2022, 10:11:10 PM
^ It's a former segment of 244, but according to MnDOT data it's already been turned back to Washington County.
That's correct (the due E-W portion of old 244 between MN 120 and Willernie, now Washington CSAH 12). Just so it's clear this isn't the city of Birchwood Village pushing back on the county for detouring traffic through town. The official detour involves Hilton Trail, MN 36, I-694, and Century Avenue, but GPS is likely routing drivers through there because it's shorter, and the city is saying "no thanks" to that.
https://www.co.washington.mn.us/ImageRepository/Document?documentId=51808
Quote from: Mdcastle on June 11, 2022, 02:06:03 PM
I supposed since everyone else is talking about the new Brooklyn Park Taco Bell:
(https://i.imgur.com/TmAgujX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0gknjRX.jpg)
Wow, fancy! No wonder they won the Franchise Wars. ;)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hhbxpkSUvAc/WzoxadMM4HI/AAAAAAAAioQ/yHufq7-AZaQQq1u-V7Q6l_DXNlyQoUkBgCLcBGAs/s400/Screen%2BShot%2B2018-07-02%2Bat%2B7.06.06%2BAM.png)
MnDOT has approved a six-leg roundabout that will carry MN 19, the northbound I-35 on and off ramps, and Rice CSAH 46/59 on the east side of the I-35 interchange.
https://kdhlradio.com/rice-county-6-legged-roundabout-approved-by-mndot/
(https://kymnradio.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Highway-19-Roundabout.jpg)
Is that the Flying J exit?
Quote from: andarcondadont on June 27, 2022, 02:59:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 27, 2022, 02:55:11 PM
Is that the Flying J exit?
Indeed you are correct
Also where most of the services listed on the logo signs (other than the Flying J) are 7-8 miles from I-35 in Northfield proper, Unless you're going to Northfield itself you might as well just wait until Faribault (SB) or Lakeville (NB) to stop. :P
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 27, 2022, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: andarcondadont on June 27, 2022, 02:59:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 27, 2022, 02:55:11 PM
Is that the Flying J exit?
Indeed you are correct
Also where most of the services listed on the logo signs (other than the Flying J) are 7-8 miles from I-35 in Northfield proper, Unless you're going to Northfield itself you might as well just wait until Faribault (SB) or Lakeville (NB) to stop. :P
How right you are! My biggest complaint about the Services on the blue sign is they are often deceptive. Why should you be allowed to put up a sign when you are 3, 4, or more miles off the exit? You don't know that until you actually exit, thereby increasing frustration.
At least the roundabouts in Rice County are going in nice locations that have enough room for them, and where improvements actually need to be made. I think MN/DOT jumped the shark in New Prague replacing almost all of the traffic lights with them, so I can understand why some folks in the area are a little apprehensive, but not to the degree of negative reception this one is getting.
All I hope is that MN/DOT relinquishes its vendetta against passing lanes and gives us at least one between Northfield and I-35...
^ Maybe it's just District 6 that has a "vendetta"? Plenty of passing lanes that have been built elsewhere outstate, even recently. MnDOT recently built a set of 6 along MN 23 spread out between I-90 and Willmar.
Crow Wing County recently released "TH 210/TH 371 Intersection Study - Improvement Concepts Definition and Assessment
Memo"
https://www.crowwing.us/DocumentCenter/View/18919/TH-210-TH-371-Intersection-Study---FINAL-Alternatives-Definition-and-Assessment-Memo---062122
The most obvious combination to me seems like a folded diamond facing away from the train tracks, plus a grade separation at Excelsior Road. I have no idea why that alternative was not studied.
(https://i.imgur.com/ty1xawZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VWp6PHf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fC6lMM6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/c0rXd9F.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RfIRZ8p.jpg)
I do think it's interesting how two of the alternatives have MN 210 as the through movement, but maybe they thought the tracks would be easier to work with by bending 210 away from them and putting the ramps to/from 371 in the old ROW on the south side.
Reading through the assessment memo, staff recommended that Concept 1 (the at-grade DLT) and Concept 4 (the N/S DDI) be removed from consideration...the DLT because it doesn't grade separate 371 from the railroad, and the N/S DDI because of the construction cost (bridging 371 over the railroad and then 210 over 371), lowering the railroad grade, and removal of access at 371/Excelsior and possibly Design Rd (the 3/4 intersection north of 371/Excelsior).
Matt: my guess is that they didn't consider your idea because the city wants to retain access at 371/Excelsior.
Option 2 seems like the best bet to me since it limits the interruption on 371 without limiting the Excelsior access. An interchange prioritizing 210's traffic flow would feel a bit weird since that's the more heavily-lighted road at the moment.
I would choose either Option 2 or Option 5 for the old US 210/old US 371 intersection.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 18, 2022, 02:35:29 PM
I would choose either Option 2 or Option 5 for the old US 210/old US 371 intersection.
I'm not big on Option 2 because it requires stoplights on both routes. Option 5 has already been eliminated from consideration due to costs and impacts on local access to the north. I think MN 371 should have been the through movement, but that's not going to happen.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 25, 2022, 11:53:11 PM
MnDOT has approved a six-leg roundabout that will carry MN 19, the northbound I-35 on and off ramps, and Rice CSAH 46/59 on the east side of the I-35 interchange.
https://kdhlradio.com/rice-county-6-legged-roundabout-approved-by-mndot/
(https://kymnradio.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Highway-19-Roundabout.jpg)
That roundabout looks like a huge mess...
No worse than the existing situation, with 2 intersections within about 200 feet of each other.
Can't really put a traffic signal at the northbound ramps because it would backup into the 19/46/59 intersection. Can't shift 46/59 east due to ROW and wetland impacts. So a roundabout does seem like the best solution...it fits almost exactly within the existing ROW (with the exception of a tiny sliver along where CR 59 gets realigned). The reason for a wide roundabout is trucks. 19 is the main truck access into Northfield with ~700 a day. There's also a Flying J just off the map to the left so a lot of trucks will be using the roundabout.
The main downside that I see is this appears to put to bed any idea of 4-laning 19 between I-35 and Northfield. I don't see a way that they could widen the roundabout to accommodate 4 lanes on 19...the ramp spacing seems a bit too tight and the volume of trucks would be problematic for the curvature too.
There's no need to four lane TH 19 to Northfield. Spot improvements and access management will maintain things just fine. It's 7 miles from this intersection to the heart of Northfield.
Too bad the stoplight on the southbound ramps will remain rather than becoming a roundabout or half dumbbell as well.
An update on I-94 northwest of the Twin Cities as I passed through this past weekend; from west to east...
-Five miles from MN 24/Clearwater to CR 8 is now fully six lanes. The striping is a bit odd, wider and more closely spaced than usual for MN, more like the Indiana Toll Road, but very nice otherwise.
-There's still a 10-mile construction zone that felt much longer from CR 8 to MN 25/Monticello. The eastbound roadway is being rebuilt, so both directions are sharing the westbound roadway.
-MN 25/Monticello to CR 19/Albertville is still four lanes with no active widening. There was a sign that said it was under study by MnDOT, although I don't remember the exact language.
-East of CR 19/Albertville is now fully six lanes, and eight lanes from MN 101 to MN 610.
I hadn't been on the northern end of I-494 in several years but noted it is now fully six lanes as well. It's a very nice road now but the 60 mph limit felt slow (especially compared to 65 mph on more urbanized sections of I-35W, MN 77, etc.)
Quote from: webny99 on July 19, 2022, 03:34:47 PM
-MN 25/Monticello to CR 19/Albertville is still four lanes with no active widening. There was a sign that said it was under study by MnDOT, although I don't remember the exact language.
Per the project manager (who I happen to know), it's tentatively scheduled for 2024-25. They have partial funding lined up. How much actually gets done (and when) will be dependent on whatever additional funding they can get.
Quote from: froggie on July 19, 2022, 09:36:28 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 19, 2022, 03:34:47 PM
-MN 25/Monticello to CR 19/Albertville is still four lanes with no active widening. There was a sign that said it was under study by MnDOT, although I don't remember the exact language.
Per the project manager (who I happen to know), it's tentatively scheduled for 2024-25. They have partial funding lined up. How much actually gets done (and when) will be dependent on whatever additional funding they can get.
Good to know! Needless to say I hope it does get done so six lanes will be continuous from Clearwater to I-494.
Quote from: andarcondadont on June 06, 2022, 12:20:23 AM
I am amazed by the relatively quick removal process for MN 237. I mean, the process for the removal of MN 120 and MN 244 from MN 96 to Stillwater Rd have began two decades ago, yet they are still maintained by MnDOT.
Is there by any a chance some MNDOT list somewhere that lists exactly which state highways are being considered for immediate turnback? I got around to driving MN 237 last fall, but I had missed the boat on MN 54. Knowing my luck MN 120 and 244 will be county roads by next week when I plan to finally drive them haha.
Quote from: froggie on July 14, 2022, 08:09:22 PM
Reading through the assessment memo, staff recommended that Concept 1 (the at-grade DLT) and Concept 4 (the N/S DDI) be removed from consideration...the DLT because it doesn't grade separate 371 from the railroad, and the N/S DDI because of the construction cost (bridging 371 over the railroad and then 210 over 371), lowering the railroad grade, and removal of access at 371/Excelsior and possibly Design Rd (the 3/4 intersection north of 371/Excelsior).
Matt: my guess is that they didn't consider your idea because the city wants to retain access at 371/Excelsior.
Has MnDOT at any point and time considered a study of the BNSF traffic on that particular line that is parallel to MN 210? Maybe, instead of trying things like CFI intersections and DDI interchanges, MnDOT may want to base the solution on what can be done with the BNSF line instead (i.e. raise the grade and rebuild the line over MN 371 instead).
Quote from: flan on July 24, 2022, 05:19:33 AM
Quote from: andarcondadont on June 06, 2022, 12:20:23 AM
I am amazed by the relatively quick removal process for MN 237. I mean, the process for the removal of MN 120 and MN 244 from MN 96 to Stillwater Rd have began two decades ago, yet they are still maintained by MnDOT.
Is there by any a chance some MNDOT list somewhere that lists exactly which state highways are being considered for immediate turnback? I got around to driving MN 237 last fall, but I had missed the boat on MN 54. Knowing my luck MN 120 and 244 will be county roads by next week when I plan to finally drive them haha.
There is, but it moved from the bookmark I had it under and I'm currently unable to find it again (froggie is much better than I am at digging through the bowels of the MnDOT archives anyway). I'm not sure if it was 100% comprehensive, but some sections outlined for future turnback/realignment in the document are currently not possible under the state constitution either.
If you're thinking about the 2014 Jurisdictional Alignment Project study, I just looked, and yeah it appears to be gone.
The statewide map I clipped and used in this page:
https://www.northstarhighways.com/?page_id=598
The Jurisdictional Realignment Study from 2014 had a list of all the long-term potential turnbacks that MnDOT was considering (as well as some routes it was considering taking over), but from what I can tell, the details of that study are no longer online...that might be the bookmark that TheHighwayMan lost.
More recently, MnDOT's 10-Year Capital Highway Investment Plan (updated annually AFAICT) includes a small section on programmed turnbacks. The current 2022-2031 version (https://edocs-public.dot.state.mn.us/edocs_public/DMResultSet/download?docId=16760336) lists MN 222 this year, MN 96 east of MN 244 next year, and MN 3 in downtown St. Paul in 2025. This last one, BTW, is the first confirmation I've had that Robert St is a trunk highway beyond 7th St (MN 5) up to I-35E/94, although other MnDOT mapping products still show MN 3 as ending at MN 5/7th.
Awesome, thank you. Funnily enough I've been on MN 3 between I-94 and MN 5, but not the six blocks between MN 5 and the river. And I'm glad I got MN 222 last year, just in time.
The Web Archive still has the jurisdictional realignment study PDFs. Here are links for the live website that can be used to retrieve snapshots:
Final report (July 2014):
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/stateaid/programlibrary/jrp-final-report.pdf
Guide to identifying misaligned segments (June 2014):
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/stateaid/programlibrary/jrp-guide.pdf
"Final Report" (!) for an earlier phase testing the procedure for compiling a register of misaligned segments in Districts 4 and 6 (still on the live website) (November 2012):
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/atp/pdf%27s/jurisdictional-realignment-final-report.pdf
The Minneapolis Star Tribune has an OT article that will still be interesting to some people here:
Airline employees are concerned about taking light rail between the two terminals at MSP due to homeless passengers, dirty rail cars, and other concerns. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/msp-airport-employees-fearful-about-taking-lrt-between-terminals/600192556/
The article doesn't say it, but the concerns mentioned in the article apply to the entire line from downtown Minneapolis to Mall of America. A friend who works for Delta says he feels the line has become a "rolling homeless shelter".
Pre-George Floyd, if I was going to / from MSP during daylight hours, I'd take the bus from my house in the west metro to downtown, then light rail the rest of the way. Now, though, I take Uber or drive and use Park and Fly at the airport, even though Uber and Park and Fly are more expensive than transit is.
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 25, 2022, 07:59:09 AM
If you're thinking about the 2014 Jurisdictional Alignment Project study, I just looked, and yeah it appears to be gone.
The statewide map I clipped and used in this page:
https://www.northstarhighways.com/?page_id=598
Some thoughts (disclaimer: I cannot immediately verify the constitutionality of some of these):
-I'm surprised at some of the longer haul corridors being eyed for handover, like MN 6 north of US 2 which is a fairly significant link in northern Minnesota. Turning over the northern half of MN 38 probably makes sense, with it being feasible that someday it takes a left turn at Marcell, eats MN 286, and ends at MN 6.
-Some of the map's segments don't line up with the data table - the intended portion of MN 23 to be turned back is the segment through Sandstone between the I-35 junctions, not the entire 65-mile segment between Sandstone and Duluth. As I also understand it, I-35 now technically enters Sandstone to satisfy CR 1, so 23 can be turned back between Exits 191 and 195 with no legal issues.
I think there are a couple DOT-owned rest areas between Sandstone and Duluth on 23 that are part of the Veterans Evergreen Scenic Byway, so that's off the table to turn-back unless the counties don't mind taking over those.
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 25, 2022, 05:49:38 PM
I think there are a couple DOT-owned rest areas between Sandstone and Duluth on 23 that are part of the Veterans Evergreen Scenic Byway, so that's off the table to turn-back unless the counties don't mind taking over those.
123 has been on the kill list for ages. I expect eventually 123 gets axed, 23 gets rerouted onto 35 between Exits 191 and 195, and 18 gets extended the half-mile east to a new terminus at I-35 Exit 195.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2022, 06:39:04 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 25, 2022, 05:49:38 PM
I think there are a couple DOT-owned rest areas between Sandstone and Duluth on 23 that are part of the Veterans Evergreen Scenic Byway, so that's off the table to turn-back unless the counties don't mind taking over those.
123 has been on the kill list for ages. I expect eventually 123 gets axed, 23 gets rerouted onto 35 between Exits 191 and 195, and 18 gets extended the half-mile east to a new terminus at I-35 Exit 195.
Oh yeah, I meant between exit 195 and Duluth. It's not very significant, but I wouldn't think it would be on the agenda to turn back because of the wayside rests/overlooks, the part in Wisconsin since Wisconsin's county roads are notoriously poor-quality, and because there is a law on the books limiting the amount of advertising signs on that stretch of the road that couldn't be enforced as easily if it were turned back.
St Louis Park's police chief stopped by our block yesterday for National Night Out, and he confirmed what we've discussed a lot here: the stretch of MN 7 between Texas Ave and 169 is VERY accident prone, especially westbound, when traffic goes up the hill west of Louisiana at near-freeway speeds, then has to slow down quickly if the traffic signal at Texas is red. He says that a lot of accidents on that stretch of road don't get reported, and, as all of us know, there's really no easy way to make it safer.
It would be really nice if, the next time Knollwood Mall gets redeveloped, MN DoT could buy some of the land on the north side of MN 7, put in service roads and overpasses, and eliminate the traffic signal at Texas....but that would probably be prohibitively expensive.
OT, he also said the biggest crime areas in St Louis Park are the Louisiana Court apartments on the west side of Louisiana north of 28th street, and Knollwood Mall.
Noticed some gore-point signs with exit numbers have gone in on MN 62, at minimum between Shady Oak Road and Tracy Ave, but I was unable to verify if they went further than that today.
It seems like the MN/DOT tradition of putting the exit arrow underneath the exit number is gone. That's a shame, it really made the signs look neater, especially with a 3-digit exit number.
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 03, 2022, 08:30:26 PM
It seems like the MN/DOT tradition of putting the exit arrow underneath the exit number is gone. That's a shame, it really made the signs look neater, especially with a 3-digit exit number.
I don't know if I'm understanding. The only signs in the state that I know of which don't follow that format are the handful of weird Texas-style ones on US 52 south of the metro with the exit number tacked on top of the gore sign. Occasionally I'd see more of a Wisconsin-style one with the arrow next to the number, but that was only for single-digit numbers, and I don't think I've seen one in a while.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 04, 2022, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 03, 2022, 08:30:26 PM
It seems like the MN/DOT tradition of putting the exit arrow underneath the exit number is gone. That's a shame, it really made the signs look neater, especially with a 3-digit exit number.
I don't know if I'm understanding. The only signs in the state that I know of which don't follow that format are the handful of weird Texas-style ones on US 52 south of the metro with the exit number tacked on top of the gore sign. Occasionally I'd see more of a Wisconsin-style one with the arrow next to the number, but that was only for single-digit numbers, and I don't think I've seen one in a while.
The new ones on 52 in the metro are the Wisconsin-style, or at least one or two I was paying attention for.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 03, 2022, 04:34:33 PM
Noticed some gore-point signs with exit numbers have gone in on MN 62, at minimum between Shady Oak Road and Tracy Ave, but I was unable to verify if they went further than that today.
Shady Oak Road: 104
US 169: 105A/B (which leads me to believe the "second chance" ramp from westbound MN 62 to US 212 will be unnumbered)
Gleason Rd: 106B (leaves the 62/212 split to be 106A)
Tracy Ave: 107
MN 100: 108A/B
Valley View Road: 109A
France Ave: 109B
Xerxes Ave: 110A
Penn Ave: 110B
I-35W South: 111A
I-35W North: 111B (previously numbered)
Exits beyond remain unnumbered.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 04, 2022, 11:03:00 PM
I-35W South: 111A
I-35W North: 111B (previously numbered)
Exit 111A was previously numbered westbound.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8905206,-93.2899328,3a,75y,261.2h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss1FupG08-9WqbK9tUkOygg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: DJ Particle on August 04, 2022, 11:56:31 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 04, 2022, 11:03:00 PM
I-35W South: 111A
I-35W North: 111B (previously numbered)
Exit 111A was previously numbered westbound.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8905206,-93.2899328,3a,75y,261.2h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss1FupG08-9WqbK9tUkOygg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Notice that as early as 2018; I wonder what motivated MnDOT to assign this exit number upon replacement of the original BGS, but without retrofitting other BGS with exit numbers.
Quote from: andarcondadont on August 05, 2022, 12:07:36 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on August 04, 2022, 11:56:31 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 04, 2022, 11:03:00 PM
I-35W South: 111A
I-35W North: 111B (previously numbered)
Exit 111A was previously numbered westbound.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8905206,-93.2899328,3a,75y,261.2h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss1FupG08-9WqbK9tUkOygg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Notice that as early as 2018; I wonder what motivated MnDOT to assign this exit number upon replacement of the original BGS, but without retrofitting other BGS with exit numbers.
MnDOT went on a specific mission of replacing/upgrading left exit signage throughout the metro. The left exit from US 10 eastbound to I-35W northbound getting an exit number as far as I know is still the only numbered exit on the entire US 10 freeway from Anoka to Blaine.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 04, 2022, 11:03:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 03, 2022, 04:34:33 PM
Noticed some gore-point signs with exit numbers have gone in on MN 62, at minimum between Shady Oak Road and Tracy Ave, but I was unable to verify if they went further than that today.
US 169: 105A/B (which leads me to believe the "second chance" ramp from westbound MN 62 to US 212 will be unnumbered)
It might also be numbered as if it were a 212 exit.
Need help here if anyone can assist.
I was watching Better Call Saul, and there is a sequence that I'm 99% sure was filmed in Minnesota based on the design of the traffic signal, which looks like the design used in Minnesota. The signal is a flashing yellow arrow although the yellow portion is not lit in my photo.
Just trying to see if either (A) anyone can confirm that this is Minnesota, and possibly (B) if it is Minnesota, where it might be. Thanks 😊
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52281562520_d68cd196fa_k.jpg)
Better Call Saul S6 Ep12 (https://flic.kr/p/2nDWF5m) by Jacob Root (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62537709@N03/), on Flickr
Here are the shots before/leading up to that screenshot:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52281562560_dd224ab68e_k.jpg)
Better Call Saul S6 Ep12 (https://flic.kr/p/2nDWF63) by Jacob Root (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62537709@N03/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52280100667_f857e094af_k.jpg)
Better Call Saul S6 Ep12 (https://flic.kr/p/2nDPbvZ) by Jacob Root (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62537709@N03/), on Flickr
It does look like a Minnesota design but I can't tell where just from three screenshots.
Quote from: froggie on August 12, 2022, 01:17:14 PM
It does look like a Minnesota design but I can't tell where just from three screenshots.
For sure. It could literally be anywhere. I'm just hoping someone recognizes the stretch of road off-hand. Tracking down the location using clues is possible, but would take a very long time.
For additional detail, the road behind the car and the road in front of the car are the same stretch of road.
I figured that was the case...the bus also shows up in 2 of your screenshots. But it's impossible to make out details or signs.
The one business I can make out is an O'Reilly Auto Parts (photo 3), but that does little to narrow the location.
I think I found it. Broadway Ave (old US 63) on Rochester's north side.
Map: https://www.google.com/maps/place/2610+N+Broadway+Ave,+Rochester,+MN+55906/@44.054446,-92.4609606,15.25z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x87f9e018bfe31565:0xb80b2fc2647a4d68!2s2610+N+Broadway+Ave,+Rochester,+MN+55906!3b1!8m2!3d44.0518982!4d-92.4544348!3m4!1s0x87f9e018bfe31565:0xb80b2fc2647a4d68!8m2!3d44.0518982!4d-92.4544348
GSV:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0484612,-92.4560811,3a,15y,192.22h,95.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stJJEhSr39JFfng90hSzotA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0515258,-92.4554958,3a,15y,62.95h,92.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOsxhPtW4wwV5nSImH25cdw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0515258,-92.4554958,3a,15y,345.17h,91.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOsxhPtW4wwV5nSImH25cdw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
HOLY HOLY MOTHER OF
(https://media.giphy.com/media/NQRRqqkImJ3Da/200.gif)
Well found!!!!
Thank you for taking the time to locate this scene. Hugely helpful.
I actually don't think I've been through there (I only drove US 63 long after it was rerouted off Broadway, no pun intended for theater geeks). I actually just started looking at possible O'Reilly locations. It's tough to see but I could see hills in the background of the picture with the O'Reilly sign, so I looked at some suburban strip crap in Hermantown/Duluth and Cloquet first, tried Hibbing's location, tried some more southern locations in Winona, Hastings, and Red Wing where the terrain is a bit hillier, and for whatever reason had a sudden thought it might be Rochester, though I don't know why.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 12, 2022, 07:40:07 PM
I actually don't think I've been through there (I only drove US 63 long after it was rerouted off Broadway, no pun intended for theater geeks). I actually just started looking at possible O'Reilly locations. It's tough to see but I could see hills in the background of the picture with the O'Reilly sign, so I looked at some suburban strip crap in Hermantown/Duluth and Cloquet first, tried Hibbing's location, tried some more southern locations in Winona, Hastings, and Red Wing where the terrain is a bit hillier, and for whatever reason had a sudden thought it might be Rochester, though I don't know why.
My original plan, once it was discovered that there was an O'Reillys in the shot, was to do the exact same thing; just start panning around and GSV'ing them one by one. Problem for me, not knowing Minnesota geography, is knowing which areas are flat, and which are hilly. In retrospect, I could have utilized the topo layer in Google Maps. Alas, I was quite busy during the afternoon and you were able to find it before I was even able to open Google Maps!
So again: thank you a ton, and I appreciate you dedicating some time to this. It's very helpful! Better Call Saul was almost entirely filmed in Albuquerque, NM. So this shot, a couple others, are the only times it was filmed outside of New Mexico. The actor, Bob Odenkirk, wouldn't have actually been driving. These types of scenes are used by filmmakers from time to time, where the outside and inside shots are filmed separate. Unfortunately for them, I recognize a Minnesota mast arm and signal design quite easily, so I knew this was a rare non-NM scene.
A vehicle struck the pedestrian bridge over TH 62 in Edina located between Valley View and MN 100. The bridge will be removed/repaired over the coming days (tweet isn't clear), but the westbound lanes of the road are closed at I-35W as of now.
https://twitter.com/MnDOTMetro/status/1559637560800034816
Actually the second time in six months this bridge has been hit. https://www.hometownsource.com/sun_current/community/edina/pedestrian-bridge-in-edina-closes-after-truck-damage/article_94ad507a-9402-11ec-96fb-3bb9f2474d76.html
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 16, 2022, 06:25:59 PM
A vehicle struck the pedestrian bridge over TH 62 in Edina located between Valley View and MN 100. The bridge will be removed/repaired over the coming days (tweet isn't clear), but the westbound lanes of the road are closed at I-35W as of now.
The STrib says the damaged part of the bridge has been removed, and the freeway has reopened.
https://www.startribune.com/westbound-crosstown-hwy-62-reopens-in-edina-after-damaged-pedestrian-bridge-removed/600199299/
It would be nice if the owner of the truck that hit the bridge had to pay for the bridge to be torn down and replaced, instead of having the taxpayers pay for it.....but that's not going to happen.
MnDOT released the video of the truck/bridge impact, which sent clouds of debris showering onto 62. Fortunately there were no injuries. Thank goodness no one was walking over the bridge at the time either.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2022, 03:25:25 PM
MnDOT released the video of the truck/bridge impact, which sent clouds of debris showering onto 62. Fortunately there were no injuries. Thank goodness no one was walking over the bridge at the time either.
https://video.startribune.com/watch-truck-hits-hwy-62-pedestrian-bridge-in-edina/600199323/
Here's the video; as you said, TheHighwayMan394, it's VERY lucky there were no injuries. I would not have wanted to be in one of the cars directly behind the truck after it hit the overpass.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on August 18, 2022, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2022, 03:25:25 PM
MnDOT released the video of the truck/bridge impact, which sent clouds of debris showering onto 62. Fortunately there were no injuries. Thank goodness no one was walking over the bridge at the time either.
https://video.startribune.com/watch-truck-hits-hwy-62-pedestrian-bridge-in-edina/600199323/
Here's the video; as you said, TheHighwayMan394, it's VERY lucky there were no injuries. I would not have wanted to be in one of the cars directly behind the truck after it hit the overpass.
Or worse, a pedestrian on that bridge
Hennepin CSAH 47 in Plymouth will be turned over to the city, with the new name Chankahda Trail replacing the current legal name of County Road 47 following the turnback.
https://www.plymouthmn.gov/departments/public-works/project-spotlight/county-road-47-corridor-study/-fbclid-IwAR3Jz9hncxGAqxiiZ06UXQWsdf3wpRb26ETKHOSOmafI-pa123_EOwaPqLY
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 24, 2022, 10:29:26 PM
Hennepin CSAH 47 in Plymouth will be turned over to the city, with the new name Chankahda Trail replacing the current legal name of County Road 47 following the turnback.
https://www.plymouthmn.gov/departments/public-works/project-spotlight/county-road-47-corridor-study/-fbclid-IwAR3Jz9hncxGAqxiiZ06UXQWsdf3wpRb26ETKHOSOmafI-pa123_EOwaPqLY
After watching the CCX Media report on this name change, I watched the Plymouth city council meeting in order to watch the resolution get passed. Two councilmembers expressed their dissent. I won't use their names in fear of targeting them, but I will analyze their concerns. I must also mention that I do not live nor work in the city of Plymouth; I am simply a resident from across town interested in this story.
1. One of the councilmembers doesn't see the point of renaming this road, and simply wants it named Old County Rd 47, which is the part I understand. But then a case is made where places are renamed in order to fit a woke agenda. I'm not sure about other places, and he may have a point for certain places. But this road is being renamed simply because the majority of residents in the area want to see a road name dedicated to the Dakota.
2. After watching the road renaming committee, the other councilmember pointed out that the name "Chankahda" may be difficult to pronounce for some. While I and other people present at that meeting won't deny that the name takes some learning, Minnesotans are already used to names of Native American origin, especially if those names have been around for centuries.
That concludes my analysis of the dissenting opinions regarding this road name change. I would nitpick the road name, but I think it and the suffix "Trail" is very fitting. Though if I were a resident and I had my way, I would've proposed an extension of Hackamore Rd from County 101 to County 61 for name continuity.
Quote from: andarcondadont on August 25, 2022, 01:40:25 AM
2. After watching the road renaming committee, the other councilmember pointed out that the name "Chankahda" may be difficult to pronounce for some. While I and other people present at that meeting won't deny that the name takes some learning, Minnesotans are already used to names of Native American origin, especially if those names have been around for centuries.
Lol "difficult to pronounce". Have they been around Minnesota before? There are some doozies out there, dotcha know.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 25, 2022, 04:39:50 PM
Quote from: andarcondadont on August 25, 2022, 01:40:25 AM
2. After watching the road renaming committee, the other councilmember pointed out that the name "Chankahda" may be difficult to pronounce for some. While I and other people present at that meeting won't deny that the name takes some learning, Minnesotans are already used to names of Native American origin, especially if those names have been around for centuries.
Lol "difficult to pronounce". Have they been around Minnesota before? There are some doozies out there, dotcha know.
It'll probably just be called "Chan Trail" by locals, like the city of Chanhassen is already colloquially shortened to (if that town name sounds vaguely familiar, it's where Prince lived - and died, with his estate now a museum).
What I find interesting is that this road also (briefly) serves as the border between Plymouth and Maple Grove, running from the intersection with County 101 to just east of the Vagabond Ln intersection. The street sign installed by Maple Grove (or at least looks similar to the design found all over that city) signs the road as Hackamore Rd (https://goo.gl/maps/4xL8ZxzXC4hV45xY9), which I briefly stated is the name of the road beyond County 101 that is shared between Corcoran and Medina. Unknown if Plymouth crews will change the Hackamore Rd sign at Vagabond Ln.
Quote from: andarcondadont on August 26, 2022, 07:02:05 PM
What I find interesting is that this road also (briefly) serves as the border between Plymouth and Maple Grove, running from the intersection with County 101 to just east of the Vagabond Ln intersection. The street sign installed by Maple Grove (or at least looks similar to the design found all over that city) signs the road as Hackamore Rd (https://goo.gl/maps/4xL8ZxzXC4hV45xY9), which I briefly stated is the name of the road beyond County 101 that is shared between Corcoran and Medina. Unknown if Plymouth crews will change the Hackamore Rd sign at Vagabond Ln.
If it's MG's responsibility, they won't touch it. City-line streets with two names aren't unheard of in the metro (Century/Geneva, CSAH 62 being known as Townline Rd in Minnetonka and West 62nd St in Eden Prairie)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 26, 2022, 07:12:14 PM
Quote from: andarcondadont on August 26, 2022, 07:02:05 PM
What I find interesting is that this road also (briefly) serves as the border between Plymouth and Maple Grove, running from the intersection with County 101 to just east of the Vagabond Ln intersection. The street sign installed by Maple Grove (or at least looks similar to the design found all over that city) signs the road as Hackamore Rd (https://goo.gl/maps/4xL8ZxzXC4hV45xY9), which I briefly stated is the name of the road beyond County 101 that is shared between Corcoran and Medina. Unknown if Plymouth crews will change the Hackamore Rd sign at Vagabond Ln.
If it's MG's responsibility, they won't touch it. City-line streets with two names aren't unheard of in the metro (Century/Geneva, CSAH 62 being known as Townline Rd in Minnetonka and West 62nd St in Eden Prairie)
Maple Grove in late 2021 deferred their portion of CSAH 47 to Plymouth for construction, operations, and maintenance: https://www.maplegrovemn.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/959?fileID=3810 (https://www.maplegrovemn.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/959?fileID=3810)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 24, 2022, 10:29:26 PM
Hennepin CSAH 47 in Plymouth will be turned over to the city, with the new name Chankahda Trail replacing the current legal name of County Road 47 following the turnback.
Quote from: Roadguy on August 29, 2022, 11:34:52 PM
Maple Grove in late 2021 deferred their portion of CSAH 47 to Plymouth for construction, operations, and maintenance: https://www.maplegrovemn.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/959?fileID=3810 (https://www.maplegrovemn.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/959?fileID=3810)
Didn't catch this earlier, but 47 isn't on the CSAH system. It's a plain-Jane County Road. Though based on the Maple Grove resolution that Roadguy posted, it looks like Plymouth wants to include it in their Municipal State Aid mileage.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 16, 2022, 06:25:59 PM
A vehicle struck the pedestrian bridge over TH 62 in Edina located between Valley View and MN 100. The bridge will be removed/repaired over the coming days (tweet isn't clear), but the westbound lanes of the road are closed at I-35W as of now.
https://twitter.com/MnDOTMetro/status/1559637560800034816
Actually the second time in six months this bridge has been hit. https://www.hometownsource.com/sun_current/community/edina/pedestrian-bridge-in-edina-closes-after-truck-damage/article_94ad507a-9402-11ec-96fb-3bb9f2474d76.html
I got to sit in the resulting backup the day this happened on the way to a short job at Southdale. 🤦♂️
I've been going through the construction plans for SP 8821-353, a major sign replacement covering US 53 in St. Louis and Koochiching Counties, and have observed both independent-mount and guide-sign versions of a "UT" shield for what appears to be a locally maintained class of minor road. Does anyone know the story behind these? Google has not been helpful.
Peat Plant Road (UT 9118) near Eveleth (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.290161,-92.4783703,3a,75y,101.72h,95.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxQ48qoaAHWulmhP1FjMVLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Murphy Lake Road (UT 9115), also near Eveleth (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3070444,-92.4774455,3a,49.9y,280.16h,90.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAs6Uq20Rh1akravaD9WfbA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
UT = Unorganized Township. As I understand state law, public roads in such areas are the responsibility of the county.
Quote from: froggie on September 01, 2022, 10:50:49 PMUT = Unorganized Township. As I understand state law, public roads in such areas are the responsibility of the county.
Many thanks! All is now clear.
Cook County, following its changeover from white squares to pentagon shields for its county roads subsequently did a second replacement of many recently installed blue pentagons with UT shields. Seemed like a waste of money. I don't know if they were going the "pentagon = CSAH, square = no" model some other counties follow, but it didn't seem like that was the case.
Not every county with UT roads signs them, either. It seems to just be the arrowhead, and then the counties that seem to require their organized townships to sign their roads with a white square (Beltrami, Aitkin, maybe others).
Took a quick look at some MnDOT data. There are 16 counties that have UT roads...except for Isanti and Chisago (which I would classify as "central"), all of them are in northern Minnesota. Koochiching is the winner with almost 333 miles. St Louis County also has over 300 miles, and there are 4 other counties with at least 100 miles.
Regarding Molandfreak's comment about organized townships signing roads, I'm not sure if it's a requirement there, but I know there are some townships in Cass County that sign their township roads...would see the signs all the time going up to my grandfather's cabin. Hard to see, but here's an example (https://goo.gl/maps/kGQ8WsDZoX2PqchD7).
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2022, 09:55:27 AM
Took a quick look at some MnDOT data. There are 16 counties that have UT roads...except for Isanti and Chisago (which I would classify as "central"), all of them are in northern Minnesota. Koochiching is the winner with almost 333 miles. St Louis County also has over 300 miles, and there are 4 other counties with at least 100 miles.
Surprised there's nothing in Fort Snelling, but I guess all the non-MN/DOT roads there might be under the jurisdiction of either the DNR or the airport itself.
I got to drive the new US 14 between 218 and Dodge Center finally. Some observations and questions:
-I didn't realize it was going to be a full freeway. I realize the tracks meant overpassing some roads made sense in some spots.
-The "Claremout" error appears to have been fixed.
-My biggest issue is with the western MN 56 interchange. There is no directional indicator for MN 56 North going in either direction, just plain MN 56 shields as if it terminates there. I don't know if MnDOT is planning some radical changes to 56 south of US 14 in the very near future, but that seems unlikely as 56 was still posted along the duplex. I think it's just an annoying and misleading oversight.
Is Business 14 still there?
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 02, 2022, 08:24:53 AMNot every county with UT roads signs them, either. It seems to just be the arrowhead, and then the counties that seem to require their organized townships to sign their roads with a white square (Beltrami, Aitkin, maybe others).
It really caught my eye that the construction plans provided designs for UT shields, so I checked MnDOT's Standard Signs Manual and verified it has none. Moreover, while it does have a shield for township roads, it is independent-mount only, suggesting that it is not usual to indicate such roads as overlays on guide signs.
(This is just an aside, but the Standard Signs Manual appears now to be a supplement to the federal
SHS. This means that MnDOT's distinctive Interstate and US route shields are set to disappear.)
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 02, 2022, 12:09:50 PM
Quote from: froggie on September 02, 2022, 09:55:27 AM
Took a quick look at some MnDOT data. There are 16 counties that have UT roads...except for Isanti and Chisago (which I would classify as "central"), all of them are in northern Minnesota. Koochiching is the winner with almost 333 miles. St Louis County also has over 300 miles, and there are 4 other counties with at least 100 miles.
Surprised there's nothing in Fort Snelling, but I guess all the non-MN/DOT roads there might be under the jurisdiction of either the DNR or the airport itself.
DNR, DoD, airport, and county....Bloomington Rd and Colville Ave being the county routes.
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 02, 2022, 12:34:38 PM
Is Business 14 still there?
I didn't see any signage for it on US 14.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 03, 2022, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 02, 2022, 12:34:38 PM
Is Business 14 still there?
I didn't see any signage for it on US 14.
Assuming this question refers to Dodge Center, it was there in July when I drove through there and I doubt it would have changed since then.
MnDOT is planning to conduct a speed study on I-35W between 94 and 494 next fall (this news a response to people wondering if/when that section might increase to 60 MPH). My guess would be it'll probably go to 60 south of Lake Street.
https://www.startribune.com/will-the-speed-limit-on-i-35w-in-minneapolis-rise-to-60-mph/600203887/?fbclid=IwAR1fWN5rMsPDrVe73s-K6oitwcEgsBCVU5ZHZJslLFCrv8KmL8ymsj99eDU (paywall)
Quote from: DandyDan on September 04, 2022, 07:35:58 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 03, 2022, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 02, 2022, 12:34:38 PM
Is Business 14 still there?
I didn't see any signage for it on US 14.
Assuming this question refers to Dodge Center, it was there in July when I drove through there and I doubt it would have changed since then.
Still there as of today.
$10 million grant awarded to help fill the last US 212 four-lane gap between Glencoe and the metro (the headline is misleading, as 212 is not entirely four-laned across the state otherwise as it suggests) with hope for the project to begin in 2024.
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/federal-grant-awarded-to-reconstruct-last-remaining-two-lane-segment-of-highway-212
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 15, 2022, 01:53:56 PM
$10 million grant awarded to help fill the last US 212 four-lane gap between Glencoe and the metro (the headline is misleading, as 212 is not entirely four-laned across the state otherwise as it suggests) with hope for the project to begin in 2024.
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/federal-grant-awarded-to-reconstruct-last-remaining-two-lane-segment-of-highway-212
The Cologne bypass was built in the 70s and the freeway in the cities was finished in 2008... It's pretty embarrassing that it took this long to get 212 up to a consistent standard in Carver County. But I guess I'd rather have it this way than have MnDOT completely give up on doing the right thing (looking at you, MN 55 west of Hastings...)
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 17, 2022, 12:26:31 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 15, 2022, 01:53:56 PM
$10 million grant awarded to help fill the last US 212 four-lane gap between Glencoe and the metro (the headline is misleading, as 212 is not entirely four-laned across the state otherwise as it suggests) with hope for the project to begin in 2024.
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/federal-grant-awarded-to-reconstruct-last-remaining-two-lane-segment-of-highway-212
The Cologne bypass was built in the 70s and the freeway in the cities was finished in 2008... It's pretty embarrassing that it took this long to get 212 up to a consistent standard in Carver County. But I guess I'd rather have it this way than have MnDOT completely give up on doing the right thing (looking at you, MN 55 west of Hastings...)
It's probably not a coincidence that MnDOT finally getting a lot of these long-desired wish-list items done on major outstate corridors (212, TH 23, US 14) coincides with a rather quiet time for major work in the metro. Funding is just a bitch.
A couple minor things in Elk River observed today.
-The control city for westbound US 10 at the 101/169 interchange is being changed from Elk River to St. Cloud. A good decision on multiple fronts.
-Based on some new signs now in place on MN 101, it appears MN 101 will not be having exit numbers added to its freeway segment.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2022, 07:20:55 PM
-Based on some new signs now in place on MN 101, it appears MN 101 will not be having exit numbers added to its freeway segment.
I has a sad. :-(
My guess is that they will try to upgrade and turn back the last section in Carver County in the next few years, and reset mile 0 to I-94 once that is done. The current mile markers haven't precisely lined up with the CSAH sections of the road since they started upgrading sections of it in Carver County anyway.
That's reminded me of a question that came to mind to me last weekend.
When on US 10 eastbound in the north metro, the last mile marker that I saw on it while it's a solo highway was something like 242.
Then it rides on top of other highways through the metro and doesn't go solo again until after it departs US 61 heading for Prescott, Wisconsin.
Those last 4 miles of it while it's solo have mile markers around 302.
There aren't 60 miles between those two points, more like 25 or 30, so where are all those extra miles coming from on that last solo section?
Quote from: invincor on September 30, 2022, 02:07:28 PM
That's reminded me of a question that came to mind to me last weekend.
When on US 10 eastbound in the north metro, the last mile marker that I saw on it while it's a solo highway was something like 242.
Then it rides on top of other highways through the metro and doesn't go solo again until after it departs US 61 heading for Prescott, Wisconsin.
Those last 4 miles of it while it's solo have mile markers around 302.
There aren't 60 miles between those two points, more like 25 or 30, so where are all those extra miles coming from on that last solo section?
Officially, and signed, it merges onto I-35E and overlaps until I-94/US 12 in St Paul, then follows I-94/US 12 east to US 61, then south on US 61 until they split.
Unoffically...
I-35W s -> MN 36 w -> I-35W s I-94/US 12E -> I-35E n -> MN 36 e -> I-694 s -> I-94/US 12w -> US 61 s :bigass:
My guess is it's related to inventorying the route. Effectively MnDOT "internally separated" the short Hastings to Prescott piece from the main body of US 10 that runs northwest of I-694. The logpoint suggests this, with a reference point starting at 300 miles for that section.
Or maybe MnDOT hired the same contractors who calibrated the exit numbers for the US 10 freeway in eastern Wisconsin. :awesomeface:
I still want US 10 to be moved to go through River Falls to Ellsworth
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 01, 2022, 01:28:18 AM
My guess is it's related to inventorying the route. Effectively MnDOT "internally separated" the short Hastings to Prescott piece from the main body of US 10 that runs northwest of I-694. The logpoint suggests this, with a reference point starting at 300 miles for that section.
According to MnDOT's Keypoint report (which replaced their former Logpoint), even this is off about a quarter-mile, as the southern US 10/US 61 junction is at US 10's 299.761 reference point. Though it's quite possible it was calibrated to 300 back when US 10 originally intersected US 61 at what is now 127th St...the current alignment curve into US 61 was built ca. 1980.
Today's STrib has an article about how community activists want MN DoT to rip out I-94 through St Paul, to recreate the neighborhood that was destroyed 60 years ago when the freeway was built. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/public-pressing-mndot-to-think-outside-the-box-in-interstate-94-review/600212058/
Although I'm okay with removing stub freeways like I-375 in Detroit, I think it's LUNACY to rip out a portion of a major through freeway between two large downtowns. I also think building a park over the freeway is a waste of tax dollars that could be used for road related purposes.
What the article doesn't say is that the objective of the light rail line between Minneapolis and St. Paul was to revitalize the neighborhoods affected by I-94's construction. That's why extra stops were added to the light rail line, even though it meant getting between Minneapolis and St. Paul would take longer. I don't see how ripping out a freeway, or adding a park over the freeway, will help the neighborhoods as much as the light rail line was supposed to.
I think ultimately there's too much pressure on MnDOT that something different from what is there now has to happen. The lid option is the best of both worlds (and seems to be favored by some at the state level as last year's legislature set aside a chunk toward the lid) but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns. But while all parties regardless of their views state gentrification is their biggest worry, to me I struggle to see how that doesn't happen with any option beyond the straight rebuild.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on October 02, 2022, 09:38:02 AM
Today's STrib has an article about how community activists want MN DoT to rip out I-94 through St Paul, to recreate the neighborhood that was destroyed 60 years ago when the freeway was built. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/public-pressing-mndot-to-think-outside-the-box-in-interstate-94-review/600212058/
Although I'm okay with removing stub freeways like I-375 in Detroit, I think it's LUNACY to rip out a portion of a major through freeway between two large downtowns. I also think building a park over the freeway is a waste of tax dollars that could be used for road related purposes.
What the article doesn't say is that the objective of the light rail line between Minneapolis and St. Paul was to revitalize the neighborhoods affected by I-94's construction. That's why extra stops were added to the light rail line, even though it meant getting between Minneapolis and St. Paul would take longer. I don't see how ripping out a freeway, or adding a park over the freeway, will help the neighborhoods as much as the light rail line was supposed to.
Some of these movements are so silly. Nothing wrong with burying freeway but it's very expensive.
Although I could see making 694 into 94 to get some of the out of town traffic to avoid downtown. Though most people don't drive like that anyway.
Thanks for the answers to my US 10 question.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 01, 2022, 01:28:18 AM
Or maybe MnDOT hired the same contractors who calibrated the exit numbers for the US 10 freeway in eastern Wisconsin. :awesomeface:
I think I solved that one a little while ago. I think those numbers are still on the books from the very beginning when US 10 entered the state at Hudson duplexed with US 12.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 02, 2022, 03:35:47 PM
but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns.
Bah, electric cars will mitigate that problem much more than any freeway teardown/infill/whatever. It's a bad argument at this point in history.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 03, 2022, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 02, 2022, 03:35:47 PM
but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns.
Bah, electric cars will mitigate that problem much more than any freeway teardown/infill/whatever. It's a bad argument at this point in history.
We had a guy from one of these groups on the radio station I work at for an interview last summer. It wasn't my interview so I couldn't ask him about that point. It did seem really obvious to me at the time though that the pollution argument made less sense with the increase in electric cars.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 03, 2022, 08:32:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 03, 2022, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 02, 2022, 03:35:47 PM
but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns.
Bah, electric cars will mitigate that problem much more than any freeway teardown/infill/whatever. It's a bad argument at this point in history.
We had a guy from one of these groups on the radio station I work at for an interview last summer. It wasn't my interview so I couldn't ask him about that point. It did seem really obvious to me at the time though that the pollution argument made less sense with the increase in electric cars.
Also, even if fewer vehicles are going through the neighborhood after the freeway is replaced by a boulevard, the vehicles that do go through the neighborhood will be emitting a lot more. It takes more energy to accelerate a vehicle from a stop to 35 MPH, than it does for a vehicle to maintain a constant speed of 60 MPH, and the emissions from vehicles that are accelerating away from stop lights will be greater than the emissions from vehicles just cruising along a freeway.
If I 94 is replaced by a boulevard, pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities will also increase, because pedestrians and bikers will be sharing the road with motor vehicles.
QuoteIf I 94 is replaced by a boulevard, pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities will also increase, because pedestrians and bikers will be sharing the road with motor vehicles.
They already are on the frontage roads, and with far worse facilities than are being proposed with a boulevard solution. So this particular claim is a misnomer.
That said, I don't agree with a wholesale ripping out of 94.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 02, 2022, 03:35:47 PM
I think ultimately there's too much pressure on MnDOT that something different from what is there now has to happen. The lid option is the best of both worlds (and seems to be favored by some at the state level as last year's legislature set aside a chunk toward the lid) but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns. But while all parties regardless of their views state gentrification is their biggest worry, to me I struggle to see how that doesn't happen with any option beyond the straight rebuild.
Missing from this entire discussion: Traffic counts for, say, the last 10 years. If the traffic counts for the last 10 years (2020 notwithstanding) show stagnant "growth" along I-94 between Minneapolis and St. Paul, there's little need to do anything beyond spot rebuilds of overpasses that are past their lifecycle. And as far as the "lid" goes, I'd have to ask why pedestrian bridges have fallen from favor with some SIM-city planner types.
Removal also strikes me as a negotiating tactic to propose something more extreme than what you actually want in order to make one's actual goal seem like the compromise position.
"These extremists wanted to take out the freeway entirely, but we talked them down to building a lid for a few blocks downtown."
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 04, 2022, 10:39:58 AM
Removal also strikes me as a negotiating tactic to propose something more extreme than what you actually want in order to make one's actual goal seem like the compromise position.
"These extremists wanted to take out the freeway entirely, but we talked them down to building a lid for a few blocks downtown."
Bingo! Hit the nail on the head
Also, the studies have shown it is actually 1-2% of the traffic on I-94 does not end up or start in Minneapolis or St Paul. Virtually no traffic is starting in Brooklyn Center at Hwy 252/I-694 and ends up at I-494/I-694 in Woodbury / Oakdale or vice versa. Everyone using I-94 in the stretch between the two downtowns ends up being local traffic. All of the users bypassing the metro area on I-94 already take I-694 or an alternative route.
The MN 65 Third Avenue Bridge in Minneapolis will not reopen until next summer, which will be about 2 1/2 years after its initial closure for rehabilitation.
https://twitter.com/StarTribune/status/1577460812817604613
Quote from: froggie on October 04, 2022, 08:15:04 AM
QuoteIf I 94 is replaced by a boulevard, pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities will also increase, because pedestrians and bikers will be sharing the road with motor vehicles.
They already are on the frontage roads, and with far worse facilities than are being proposed with a boulevard solution. So this particular claim is a misnomer.
That said, I don't agree with a wholesale ripping out of 94.
Never mind the fact that said boulevard would still be signed as US-12/52 and still give a sense of "main route" to travelers.
Does anyone here have any experience with using their Minnesota toll road EZ-Pass transponders in other states? Does it work as seamlessly as is claimed, or have you had any hiccups?
(I'm contemplating a long road trip in the spring, and thinking about getting one more for the other states I'll be driving through than for Minnesota.)
Quote from: invincor on October 05, 2022, 02:22:49 PM
Does anyone here have any experience with using their Minnesota toll road EZ-Pass transponders in other states? Does it work as seamlessly as is claimed, or have you had any hiccups?
(I'm contemplating a long road trip in the spring, and thinking about getting one more for the other states I'll be driving through than for Minnesota.)
It is seamless. I've used mine driving from MN to MA and back with no issues.
Quote from: invincor on October 05, 2022, 02:22:49 PM
Does anyone here have any experience with using their Minnesota toll road EZ-Pass transponders in other states? Does it work as seamlessly as is claimed, or have you had any hiccups?
(I'm contemplating a long road trip in the spring, and thinking about getting one more for the other states I'll be driving through than for Minnesota.)
Worked like a charm for me in Illinois.
Thanks for the answers!
The STrib says the reconstructed stretch of 212 between Carver and Cologne will open this weekend, with work on the next phase, from Cologne to Norwood Young America, due to begin in 2024. Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/carver-county-to-open-first-phase-of-road-improvements-on-busy-stretch-of-hwy-212/600217868/
I'm glad these improvements were completed before the area became built up, and improving 212 became impossible - like what happened with 12 east of Delano.
^ There's a difference between 212 and 12. Improvements to 212, including alignment, were generally agreed to by the locals. What doomed 12 waw the bypass-or-no-bypass fight between Independence and Maple Plain.
Orono-vs-Long Lake was also a contributing factor...Orono was initially opposed to a bypass. I'm not 100% on this but there is evidence to suggest that the Long Lake bypass is 2 lanes versus 4 because of Orono...building it as only 2 lanes may have been a condition of Orono's approval.
Quote from: froggie on October 21, 2022, 10:19:43 PM
^ There's a difference between 212 and 12. Improvements to 212, including alignment, were generally agreed to by the locals. What doomed 12 waw the bypass-or-no-bypass fight between Independence and Maple Plain.
Orono-vs-Long Lake was also a contributing factor...Orono was initially opposed to a bypass. I'm not 100% on this but there is evidence to suggest that the Long Lake bypass is 2 lanes versus 4 because of Orono...building it as only 2 lanes may have been a condition of Orono's approval.
I agree with you about how the infighting between the communities along 12 limited any improvements to that stretch of road.
However, I also feel that if it were possible, residents today would overwhelmingly support a 4 lane divided bypass all the way to Delano for 12, because the current stretch of road is so congested and dangerous. However, western Hennepin county has become so developed that it would be very difficult to build a 4 lane bypass now. It should have been built 35 years ago, before development arrived.....
That's the kind of thing that can happen when suburbia becomes to "balkanized".
Though as far as Midwest states go, Minnesota is usually pretty good about incorporating townships in such a way as to avoid these silly territorial pissing matches between copy/paste suburbs.
Saw a terrible sign today.
Coming back from my friend's cabin in Crosby, there was some sort of detour for 23 west of Milaca.
There was a detour sign near Pease directing people to follow 169.
And the detour sign for 169 was using an Interstate shield for 169. :no:
Quote from: discochris on October 30, 2022, 10:33:54 PM
Saw a terrible sign today.
Coming back from my friend's cabin in Crosby, there was some sort of detour for 23 west of Milaca.
There was a detour sign near Pease directing people to follow 169.
And the detour sign for 169 was using an Interstate shield for 169. :no:
Ironically there used to be a sign on that stretch of US 169 between Elk River and Mille Lacs stating "US 169 IS NOT INTERSTATE" to emphasize the 55 MPH limit back when it was stuck in NMSL hell. I think Steve Riner had a photo of it.
Random observation since I went down a rabbit hole with 169...was the short "business spur" in Onamia between 169 and TH 27 formerly state-maintained? It was marked with a dark line on the state maps until the mid-1990s.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 31, 2022, 02:40:11 AM
Random observation since I went down a rabbit hole with 169...was the short "business spur" in Onamia between 169 and TH 27 formerly state-maintained? It was marked with a dark line on the state maps until the mid-1990s.
Not to my knowledge. I believe that was just cartographic laziness.
Speaking of US 12, today's STrib says an upgrade to the intersection between County road 92 and US 12 in Independence has opened. The upgrade eliminates the 1/4 mile concurrency of 92 and 12, replacing it with an overpass and a roundabout. Another roundabout opened further east at the 12 - 90 intersection. Here's a link to the article:
https://www.startribune.com/overpass-to-improve-safety-at-dangerous-hwy-12-intersection-opens-in-independence/600220765/
The article also says MnDoT just completed a safety study of 12 between Independence and Delano. It will be interesting to see what recommendations MnDoT makes....
Northbound US 169 reassurance shield after the new 197th Street Entrance...
(https://www.northstarhighways.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/NSH-US-169-Shield-DSC02298-R.jpg)
Seems....misplaced...
Quote from: froggie on November 07, 2022, 09:10:43 PM
Seems....misplaced...
That whole sign is FUBAR. It doesn't even match the specs for the Shakopee business route.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 31, 2022, 02:16:55 AM
Quote from: discochris on October 30, 2022, 10:33:54 PM
Saw a terrible sign today.
Coming back from my friend's cabin in Crosby, there was some sort of detour for 23 west of Milaca.
There was a detour sign near Pease directing people to follow 169.
And the detour sign for 169 was using an Interstate shield for 169. :no:
Ironically there used to be a sign on that stretch of US 169 between Elk River and Mille Lacs stating "US 169 IS NOT INTERSTATE" to emphasize the 55 MPH limit back when it was stuck in NMSL hell. I think Steve Riner had a photo of it.
That's a blast from the past! I remember that sign.
Today's STrib has updates on three proposed upgrades in the northwest Metro.
Maple Grove and Rogers are requesting money for an extra lane in two places on I-94. One lane would be west of the Fish Lake interchange with 494, and the other lane would be between Hemlock Lane and Weaver Lake Road.
The other upgrade would be to finish the last leg of 610.
Here's a link:
https://www.startribune.com/maple-grove-seeks-funds-to-relieve-congestion-at-i-94-494-interchange/600236999/
I think the extra lane at the Fish Lake Interchange should have been built at least 20 years ago.....
The fact that the center lane merge from NB 494 to WB 94 was not eliminated when they rebuilt both 494 and 94 separately in recent years is downright criminal.
8 Lanes definitely seems like it was overkill for the sections north of 610. But it makes sense for surrounding the 694/494 area as that middle merge is dangerous especially in bad weather.
https://twitter.com/BestPixMN/status/1610806288459468801
Kind of funny, considering cloverleafs/cloverleaves are no longer considered to be the panacea they once were.
Though I must say, whenever I encounter a huge traffic jam in the Twin Cities, I can always count on being able to turn around by way of the next cloverleaf–simply by using three of the four loop ramps. That comes in handy.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 04, 2023, 08:19:05 PM
https://twitter.com/BestPixMN/status/1610806288459468801
A few of those need more flyovers/turbines.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 05, 2023, 10:56:22 AM
A few of those need more flyovers/turbines.
But, if we think of them as art, then they no longer need to be functional. Subliminal...
I've always been fond of the 35E/494 cloverleaf featuring CD roads on both 494 and 35W, a turbine movement from WB 494 to SB 35E and large loops. I understand it was built quite late in the mid-80s which most likely accounts for it's generous design versus more deficient ones *cough* 494/35W *cough*.
Quote from: n0ax on January 05, 2023, 03:32:54 PM
I've always been fond of the 35E/494 cloverleaf featuring CD roads on both 494 and 35W, a turbine movement from WB 494 to SB 35E and large loops. I understand it was built quite late in the mid-80s which most likely accounts for it's generous design versus more deficient ones *cough* 494/35W *cough*.
I always feel a little guilty going down the loop from NB 100 to WB 62 after dark because my lights shine right into somebody's house. :D
Today's STrib has an article about upgrades MnDoT is planning for Highway 65.
The upgrades include improvements to the intersections at 99th, 105th, and 109th/County Road 12.
However, the article says there aren't funds available yet to make 65 completely limited access between 97th and 117th. Anoka County hopes to have funding in place by 2025.
Here's a link to the article:
https://www.startribune.com/blaine-anoka-county-get-9-million-in-federal-funds-for-hwy-65-upgrades/600241779/?refresh=true
My wish list for Central Ave, aside from the above:
-Turn the 89th Ave NE intersection into RIROs. More than once I have confused those stoplights with the lights at the immediately adjacent US 10 interchange, plus it's another stoplight causing congestion issues in a crowded area.
-Finish six-laning Central between Anoka CSAH 14 and US 10.
-Something will probably need to be done about the aging decrepit cloverleaf at County 10, but don't know if there are plans for that.
Made my first trip into Albert Lea via old US 16/US 65 in a while tonight and noticed it was reconstructed such that you had to go right, but if you wanted to go left, they provided a U-turn ramp further down the road. There was also decent pavement markings, not to mention pavement.
Quote from: DandyDan on January 10, 2023, 05:58:25 AM
Made my first trip into Albert Lea via old US 16/US 65 in a while tonight and noticed it was reconstructed such that you had to go right, but if you wanted to go left, they provided a U-turn ramp further down the road. There was also decent pavement markings, not to mention pavement.
They've done the same thing to the US 61 4-lane stretch from Wabasha southwards. I've seen this used a lot in the Michigan U.P. as well.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on January 09, 2023, 03:26:12 PM
The upgrades include improvements to the intersections at 99th, 105th, and 109th/County Road 12.
Here's the city of Blaine's project website (https://www.blainemn.gov/3629/Thrive-on-65). Near the bottom is a zoomable aerial image that shows the preferred alternative.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 10, 2023, 01:49:30 AM
-Turn the 89th Ave NE intersection into RIROs. More than once I have confused those stoplights with the lights at the immediately adjacent US 10 interchange, plus it's another stoplight causing congestion issues in a crowded area.
MnDOT's study (https://edocs-public.dot.state.mn.us/edocs_public/DMResultSet/download?docId=15469884) suggests that they're looking at a right-in-only southbound and a right-out-only northbound at 89th, with the opposite at 85th and an overpass at 87th.
Quote-Something will probably need to be done about the aging decrepit cloverleaf at County 10, but don't know if there are plans for that.
MnDOT's study looked at 4 alternatives at CSAH 10: a diamond interchange on 65 (signals on 10), a diamond interchange on 10 (signals on 65), a continuous-flow intersection (or "displaced left turns", if you will), and what they called a "signalized rotary"...think of 2 sets of one-way roads crossing each other at-grade with signals. The diamond interchange on 10 and the "signalized rotary" are the alternatives currently being considered.
Quote from: discochris on October 30, 2022, 10:33:54 PM
Saw a terrible sign today.
Coming back from my friend's cabin in Crosby, there was some sort of detour for 23 west of Milaca.
There was a detour sign near Pease directing people to follow 169.
And the detour sign for 169 was using an Interstate shield for 169. :no:
kinda cr*p that ruins your day
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 09:21:08 AM
Kind of funny, considering cloverleafs/cloverleaves are no longer considered to be the panacea they once were.
Though I must say, whenever I encounter a huge traffic jam in the Twin Cities, I can always count on being able to turn around by way of the next cloverleaf–simply by using three of the four loop ramps. That comes in handy.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
I noticed in Houston County, MnDOT owns a significant amount of ROW abutting TH 26, any idea why? Seems like far more ROW than would be necessary for just the existing roadway, unless MnDOT possess it because properties were landlocked or something? Ex. https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=137&LayerID=1649&PageTypeID=4&PageID=10218&KeyValue=040115000 (https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=137&LayerID=1649&PageTypeID=4&PageID=10218&KeyValue=040115000)
Quote from: n0ax on January 13, 2023, 02:01:04 PM
I noticed in Houston County, MnDOT owns a significant amount of ROW abutting TH 26, any idea why? Seems like far more ROW than would be necessary for just the existing roadway, unless MnDOT possess it because properties were landlocked or something? Ex. https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=137&LayerID=1649&PageTypeID=4&PageID=10218&KeyValue=040115000 (https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=137&LayerID=1649&PageTypeID=4&PageID=10218&KeyValue=040115000)
I'm going to hazard a guess it's related to running next to a railroad line for the entire distance to the Iowa state line; they want sufficient distance from the railroad track to allow cars to safely negotiate the crossing, and to provide a gradual side slope so the roadway doesn't collapse and wash onto the tracks. They also don't want a flurry of folks building shacks between the road and railroad, as that's a hazardous location for cars running off the road, or rail cars derailing from the tracks.
A lengthy STrib article about what cities and counties want to do with Minnesota's surplus said Washington County's top priority is $50 million for an interchange between 36 and Century Avenue, and another $20 Million for an interchange between 36 and Lake Elmo Avenue.
Hopefully, both interchanges will be built soon.
Looks like C.S. McCrossan won the I-494 Bloomington Phase-1 rebuild contract for 377 million. I recall they were awarded the 169 interchange and prior 494 widening project from 394 to 212/5...
Took a drive up to my old home in Elk River yesterday.
-101/169 is now free-flow through the interchange with US 10, so that part of the work at least is mostly complete even if there's still another year of work on the interchange coming. A new, larger END MN 101 shield was installed to replace the old easy-to-miss "END NORTH 101".
-A little surprised going northbound that a green advance exit sign for Main St was posted already suggesting a new interchange there, even though that was not one of the interchanges built this year and it remains an at-grade intersection for now. Usually that would be covered or otherwise noting it's not an exit yet.
-The bizarre BUSINESS US 169 shield is still there.
For this weekend's presentation, we're getting the whole group back together for the annual "Virtual Road Meet" program. Come and spend an afternoon with your favorite road-related content creators & commentators as we discuss the history and features of the freeways & bridges of the Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN metro area.
If you'd like to join us live, we'll get started on Saturday (2/4) at 12 PM ET. Either way, a link to the event location can be found below and we look forward to seeing you in attendance:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 26, 2023, 11:25:25 PM
-A little surprised going northbound that a green advance exit sign for Main St was posted already suggesting a new interchange there, even though that was not one of the interchanges built this year and it remains an at-grade intersection for now. Usually that would be covered or otherwise noting it's not an exit yet.
Responding late here, but did the sign physically use the word "EXIT"?
-----------------
Meanwhile, I know I'm a bit early for MnDOT's usual spring road construction announcement, but I was digging through project websites and noted a number of roundabout, interchange, and a few widening projects that will begin this year. This list doesn't include ongoing projects like the above-mentioned 169 Elk River or the new 10 interchange at Thurston Ave in Anoka.
New roundabouts coming in 2023:US 2/MN 65
US 2/MN 194
MN 7/McLeod CSAH 1
MN 11/MN 313
MN 11/Lake St (Warroad)
MN 13/LeSueur CSAH 28 (N of Montgomery)
MN 21/Sawmill Rd/Old Hwy 169 (Jordan)
MN 24/Hemlock St (Annandale)
MN 25/Wright CSAH 83 (N. Buffalo)
MN 57/Dodge CSAH 34
MN 57/Main St (Kasson)
Worth noting that the MN 57/Main St project will eliminate what AFAIK is the only traffic signal in Dodge County.
The two MN 11 roundabouts will replace the two signals currently existing in Warroad. Roseau County will still have 3 signals in Roseau, though one of those (along MN 89) is slated for replacement with a roundabout in a few years.
New interchanges beginning in 2023:US 10/Anoka CSAH 56
US 10/Anoka CSAH 57
US 10/MN 23 (replacement with folded-diamond)
I-35W/I-494
I-494/Portland (also removes Nicollet & 12th Ave ramps)
The US 10 Anoka County projects will extend the freeway section further west of Anoka, though I'm not 100% if they're eliminating all the private access between CSAH 56 and CSAH 83. If so, the freeway section on US 10 will eventually extend to about a mile west of CSAH 83.
Widening projects in 2023:MN 23 New London to Richmond
I-494 MnPASS 100-to-35W
US 61 passing lanes near Frontenac
US 212 westbound passing lane west of Sacred Heart
Quote from: froggie on February 18, 2023, 10:43:17 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 26, 2023, 11:25:25 PM
-A little surprised going northbound that a green advance exit sign for Main St was posted already suggesting a new interchange there, even though that was not one of the interchanges built this year and it remains an at-grade intersection for now. Usually that would be covered or otherwise noting it's not an exit yet.
Responding late here, but did the sign physically use the word "EXIT"?
Correct. It said "EXIT 1/2 MILE" if I recall the distance correctly.
Continuing Minnesota's erratic nature in the department, it looks like the 169 Elk River freeway will not have exit numbers.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 18, 2023, 07:21:07 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 18, 2023, 10:43:17 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 26, 2023, 11:25:25 PM
-A little surprised going northbound that a green advance exit sign for Main St was posted already suggesting a new interchange there, even though that was not one of the interchanges built this year and it remains an at-grade intersection for now. Usually that would be covered or otherwise noting it's not an exit yet.
Responding late here, but did the sign physically use the word "EXIT"?
Correct. It said "EXIT 1/2 MILE" if I recall the distance correctly.
Continuing Minnesota's erratic nature in the department, it looks like the 169 Elk River freeway will not have exit numbers.
There is also a green advanced exit sign for 193rd Ave/Jackson St (that hasn't been built) going southbound on 169 near the new 197th Ave exit.
Something interesting froggie found. Plans are being proposed for a new interchange on I-35 at the plane of 400th St in North Branch, giving this growing region a second access exit, but the interesting part is there are long-range proposals to reroute TH 95 onto a new alignment using this road.
https://www.senate.mn/committees/2021-2022/3102_Committee_on_Transportation_Finance_and_Policy/Handouts%20for%204192022.pdf
^ This map (https://cms4files1.revize.com/northbranch/Future%20Transportation%20System.pdf) from North Branch suggests that, if 95 isn't rerouted to the north, another alternative is to put it on a one-way pair through North Branch.
The most direct route from Red Wing to Rochester is to first follow MN 58 south to US 52 at Zumbrota and then take 52 the rest of the way. So, why wasn't US 63 routed this way when it was established? It first does a duplex with US 61 to Lake City and then heads south to Rochester. Does anyone know the reason why?
Quote from: invincor on February 26, 2023, 06:50:28 PM
The most direct route from Red Wing to Rochester is to first follow MN 58 south to US 52 at Zumbrota and then take 52 the rest of the way. So, why wasn't US 63 routed this way when it was established? It first does a duplex with US 61 to Lake City and then heads south to Rochester. Does anyone know the reason why?
I would think (without knowing) that Lake City was considered an important city back in the day. Now with US 63 routed out of Rochester it's got that really silly jog where it should just be moved to MN 58, especially with US 52 being a freeway now. 51 minutes through Zumbrota, 64 minutes staying on US 63. Crazy.
Keeping US 63 on the least-confusing route possible was probably the top priority in 1935. It was a straight route through Rochester until very recently and already had 15 years of recognition as one corridor, since constitutional route 59 had been there before. The only thing that changed when 63 came along was that it was now multiplexed with 61 to Red Wing.
Quote from: invincor on February 26, 2023, 06:50:28 PM
The most direct route from Red Wing to Rochester is to first follow MN 58 south to US 52 at Zumbrota and then take 52 the rest of the way. So, why wasn't US 63 routed this way when it was established? It first does a duplex with US 61 to Lake City and then heads south to Rochester. Does anyone know the reason why?
Having clinched MN 58, there are some terrain issues along part of that route. This is the Driftless Area, after all.
Worth noting that, for a year or two in the mid-1930s, Minnesota had petitioned and designated what is now US 63 as US 59 (which fit the Constitutional route and was closer to the grid). They might have even signed it as such briefly. US 59 ended in Lake City. Safe to say that's why US 63 goes through Lake City, because its (brief) predecessor went there.
Thank you Froggie. I guessed in advance you'd have the answer. :)
$2 million in federal money will go toward the proposed Rondo Land Bridge over I-94 in St. Paul. The cap seems to be the favored route for the state and city in addressing the long-simmering issue regarding I-94 on St. Paul's west side, although some other activist groups around this project have stated a full removal/downgrade is the only option they'll accept.
https://www.twincities.com/2023/02/27/2m-in-federal-funding-granted-to-rondo-community-land-bridge-project-in-st-paul/
Hopefully some of that could go towards a partial redesign of the 52/94 interchange again... Or at least signage to direct trucks to 61 instead.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 27, 2023, 04:43:04 PM
$2 million in federal money will go toward the proposed Rondo Land Bridge over I-94 in St. Paul. The cap seems to be the favored route for the state and city in addressing the long-simmering issue regarding I-94 on St. Paul's west side, although some other activist groups around this project have stated a full removal/downgrade is the only option they'll accept.
https://www.twincities.com/2023/02/27/2m-in-federal-funding-granted-to-rondo-community-land-bridge-project-in-st-paul/
My sense is that some of those groups aren't local to the Rondo neighborhood, and with their broader aim to totally remove I-94 in the core of the metro, their all-or-nothing approach really is doomed to fail. Sure, removing a freeway that harmed (and continues to harm) residents living in its path sounds great, and I wish those harms could be removed. There's just no feasible way to make this work. It would be better to build the land bridge in Rondo and make other similar moves along the route than take a moonshot that's bound to miss. Or invent a time machine that takes you back to the 1940s and get George Herrold's plan to put I-94 on the northern route through St. Paul passed.
Work on the US 53 section on the north side of the Twin Ports Interchange project could be significantly delayed after crews accidentally uncovered the remains of an indigenous person. This is not something that will be taken lightly, as the discovery of an indigenous burial ground has set the TH 23 project within a different part of Duluth back for several years (the pandemic has probably also contributed) and it is likely as much time will be taken as needed to determine if this was isolated or a formal burial ground. The article notes no such remains were found when the US 53 viaduct was originally built.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/local/indigenous-remains-found-during-twin-ports-interchange-construction?fbclid=IwAR0Mc6QPVgOolxcx-f3Qbg9-ZrLe7m3gWKf1pKFYI-Frz-JKuNNWQi6XzM0
On a happier note, a bill is advancing to designate TH 5 in Chanhassen as the Prince Rogers Nelson Memorial Highway.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF717&type=bill&version=0&session=ls93&session_year=2023&session_number=0
I was noticing how US 69 ends abruptly in Albert Lead without connecting to either I-35 or I-90 or even US 65. Its endpoint is west of US 65 by eight blocks.
https://www.usends.com/69.html
According to Dale Sanderson it seems to have to do with Historical US 16 as its endpoint is where the truncated US Route once aligned.
To me it's interesting that they didn't extend it north to end at I-90 once US 16 got cut to Rapid City.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 21, 2023, 07:44:38 PM
I was noticing how US 69 ends abruptly in Albert Lead without connecting to either I-35 or I-90 or even US 65. Its endpoint is west of US 65 by eight blocks.
https://www.usends.com/69.html
According to Dale Sanderson it seems to have to do with Historical US 16 as its endpoint is where the truncated US Route once aligned.
To me it's interesting that they didn't extend it north to end at I-90 once US 16 got cut to Rapid City.
Agreed. It's almost like someone just forgot to do it.
This is one of those topics that gets rehashed every couple years. I don't have a definitive answer and it's hard to find maps of what exactly connected 69 and 65, although I did find one map that indicated only US 16, indicating TH 13 ended at the same intersection US 69 did.
My guess is 69 was not extended simply because MDH/MnDOT didn't need AASHTO approval to just extend TH 13 the short distance east over old US 16 to US 65 downtown.
An extension would surely have been approved, but I wouldn't be surprised if the state thought it wasn't worth the paperwork and hassle.
Quote from: bschultzy on March 01, 2023, 01:47:04 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 27, 2023, 04:43:04 PM
Or invent a time machine that takes you back to the 1940s and get George Herrold's plan to put I-94 on the northern route through St. Paul passed.
do tell
Quote from: texaskdog on March 22, 2023, 11:42:26 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 27, 2023, 04:43:04 PM
Or invent a time machine that takes you back to the 1940s and get George Herrold's plan to put I-94 on the northern route through St. Paul passed.
do tell
https://www.mnopedia.org/event/neighborhood-resistance-i-94-1953-1965
There is also a bunch of info in this thread as well: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32295.0
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2023, 02:12:28 PM
This is one of those topics that gets rehashed every couple years. I don't have a definitive answer and it's hard to find maps of what exactly connected 69 and 65, although I did find one map that indicated only US 16, indicating TH 13 ended at the same intersection US 69 did.
I have a number of state maps from the era and those I don't have are on the Minnesota Digital Library. Other info can be gleaned from MnDOT's project logs.
Prior to 1939, US 69 came into Albert Lea from the south via South Broadway, meeting US 65 directly at what is now the South Broadway/CSAH 18 intersection. Sanderson on his page seems to think that 69 continued concurrent with 65 up to 16 at Main St, though he doesn't show any proof or validation of this, nor have I come across any.
US 69 was realigned south of Albert Lea in 1939, more or less along it's current alignment. The junction with 16 was, at the time, a rather large Wye. The MN 13 connection was not built until 1952-53, at which point the junction became the standard 4-way intersection it is today (albeit not widened to 4-lanes until the 1960s). Prior to that, MN 13 met US 16 at Main St/Ermina Ave and took a convoluted route north and northwest out of Albert Lea.
The first state map to show city insets besides the Twin Cities and Duluth is the 1946 edition. Every map from 1946 to 1961 shows US 69 along US 16, presumably ending at US 65 at Main/Broadway. The 1962 map is the first map to not show this 16/69 concurrency.
When this leg of US 16 was decommissioned in 1973, the stretch from US 69 to US 65/Broadway was specifically transferred to MN 13's Control Section per the Project Logs. So it's safe to say that's when MN 13 was extended.
I always found it interesting that US 69 never made it north of Albert Lea, while its spur route US 169 makes it all the way north to Virginia (and International Falls before 1934). Although there are a number of examples of 3-digit US Highways going further north (or south, or east, or west) of their parent routes, though it always seems a little awkward to me.
^ Good to know. Although then that raises a couple more questions
1. If the 16/69 duplex was signed in the field.
2. If a step was skipped/missed with AASH(T)O along the way. I didn't exhaustively check the applications but found nothing regarding 69 from the three years I checked 1960-62.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 23, 2023, 12:44:49 PM
I always found it interesting that US 69 never made it north of Albert Lea, while its spur route US 169 makes it all the way north to Virginia (and International Falls before 1934). Although there are a number of examples of 3-digit US Highways going further north (or south, or east, or west) of their parent routes, though it always seems a little awkward to me.
US 69's extension into Minnesota was really Iowa's initiative to provide an alternate route to US 65 (before I-35 came along). The routing of US 65 was extremely awkward from Faribault to Lakeville until former MN 165 was paved and US 65 was re-routed to follow it in 1957. Getting MN 165 paved was probably the priority rather than signing yet another alternate route as a US highway.
Quote from: Molandfreak on March 23, 2023, 10:38:30 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 23, 2023, 12:44:49 PM
I always found it interesting that US 69 never made it north of Albert Lea, while its spur route US 169 makes it all the way north to Virginia (and International Falls before 1934). Although there are a number of examples of 3-digit US Highways going further north (or south, or east, or west) of their parent routes, though it always seems a little awkward to me.
US 69's extension into Minnesota was really Iowa's initiative to provide an alternate route to US 65 (before I-35 came along). The routing of US 65 was extremely awkward from Faribault to Lakeville until former MN 165 was paved and US 65 was re-routed to follow it in 1957. Getting MN 165 paved was probably the priority rather than signing yet another alternate route as a US highway.
I guess 69 could have followed today's TH 13, then ultimately taken over what is today's 169 from MSP north...I just don't see a reason for this, though.
So I found this document (https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=7af66d00-36e6-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true) of interest (if needed, search MN for state and 1952 for year). About 1/3 of the way down is a mileage tabulation that the state highway department submitted to AASHO. It shows US 69 as "beginning" at US 16 and extending 12.49 miles down to the Iowa line. This mileage matches what recent MnDOT Logpoint and Keypoint reports show for the mileage on US 69 from the state line to MN 13. Given that the same mileage tabulation shows then-US 371's northern terminus concurrent with US 2, it's reasonable to consider that US 69 indeed ended at US 16 and the state highway maps showing the two concurrent were in error.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/news/2023/03/21-metro-Publicmeeting.html
MnDOT public meeting on April 18th for the I-94/MN 252 corridor from downtown Minneapolis to MN 610. Comments are open on the Scoping Document (https://dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy252study/index.html#scopingdocument) will be accepted through May 19th.
A lot to digest with this one. This is the restart of a previous study conducted to assess upgrading MN 252 to a freeway (which was funded via state dollars) but elements of which were opposed by local suburbs...particularly Brooklyn Center with the impacts at 66th Ave. So MnDOT basically went back to the drawing board.
Several dozen alternatives (some rather farcical) were analyzed for MN 252, many of which include the segment of I-94 to the south. All non-freeway alternatives for MN 252 have since been dropped, leaving three: a 4- or 6-lane freeway with bus shoulders, and a 6-lane freeway with 2 lanes being managed lanes (most likely HO/T given precedent elsewhere in the Twin Cities).
The alternatives for I-94 range from doing nothing to adding a lane between MN 252 and Dowling Ave and converting an existing lane between Dowling Ave and 4th St to HO/T. The I-94 options that include a HO/T lane (whether addition or conversion) would also add a direct connection to the 4th St ramp...creating a HO/T lane without that direct connection was considered but dropped. The I-94 alternatives also look at adding the lane "southbound only" or in both directions.
One interesting option at the 94/252 merge that is being considered would "flip" eastbound 94 and southbound 252, so that the 252 lanes would merge on the right instead of on the left as they currently do.
Five different alternatives for access along 252 are being considered. The only constants among the five are that all would have an interchange at CSAH 109/85th Ave and all would eliminate access at 81st Ave/Humboldt (though an overpass at 81st/Humboldt will be considered). Only one of the five retains access at 70th Ave...all other alternatives would eliminate access there and NOT include an overpass.
Several interchange designs were considered at each access point, but only the Tight Diamond is being retained as an option at every location except 66th. As a general rule, bridging 252 over the cross-streets would have fewer property impacts but greater noise impacts. Given the latter and local input thus far, I would expect to see those cross streets bridged over 252. A split-diamond between 73rd and Brookdale Dr is also being considered as an option.
A potential interchange at 66th is complicated due to both adjacent development and the close proximity of the 94/694/252 interchange. This is the only location along the corridor where a tight diamond is *NOT* being considered. The remaining interchange options at 66th are a folded-diamond to the north or a diamond with C/D roads between 66th and 694.
How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?
If they had asked me in 1985 I could have told them they needed a freeway, and I would have given them a better deal on a consultant fee.
8th Grade English class we had to write a "Letter to the Editor" and mine was complaining about the traffic signals on 252
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 02, 2023, 01:38:58 PM
How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?
It's in the Scoping Document I linked to. I did not delve deeply into that and the answer will depend on the alternatives selected.
Quote from: froggie on April 02, 2023, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 02, 2023, 01:38:58 PM
How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?
It's in the Scoping Document I linked to. I did not delve deeply into that and the answer will depend on the alternatives selected.
Surprised they just didn't build a freeway to begin with. 252 is not that old
Quote from: texaskdog on April 02, 2023, 09:35:20 PM
Quote from: froggie on April 02, 2023, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 02, 2023, 01:38:58 PM
How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?
It's in the Scoping Document I linked to. I did not delve deeply into that and the answer will depend on the alternatives selected.
Surprised they just didn't build a freeway to begin with. 252 is not that old
I think that
was the original plan. Park and Center objected at the time, so we got the shitty arterial expressway thing that both cities now want upgraded.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 02, 2023, 09:47:11 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on April 02, 2023, 09:35:20 PM
Quote from: froggie on April 02, 2023, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 02, 2023, 01:38:58 PM
How many homes and businesses might have to be demolished if MN 252 is converted to freeway standards?
It's in the Scoping Document I linked to. I did not delve deeply into that and the answer will depend on the alternatives selected.
Surprised they just didn't build a freeway to begin with. 252 is not that old
I think that was the original plan. Park and Center objected at the time, so we got the shitty arterial expressway thing that both cities now want upgraded.
I had heard from an old MnDOT engineer who worked on the original 252 divided highway expansion in the 1980s that full freeway was the plan but it was Center that objected. It was down scoped to an arterial expressway to win support. As usual, the significant consequence of Minnesota's cumbersome municipal consent process is that 252 was left as a corridor with the shitty arterial expressway where many people have lost their lives over the years. Similarly today, Park seems fully onboard with the conversion but Center has been the hold up. Center's previous Mayor (Elliott) formed a committee to hide behind versus making the political decision (lack of leadership for Elliott for his whole term, he established committees for many things as he didn't want to stick his neck out to make a decision as mayor with the council). The committee hid behind the controversy of an interchange at 66th or 70th. Now that Center has a new mayor and some new council members, it will be interesting to see where this goes.
In the mean time, had heard MnDOT has up scoped the environmental document process from an environmental assessment to an environmental impact statement as well to dig deeper into the benefits and impacts.
Also heard the I-494 project in Bloomington, Edina and Richfield (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494-airport-hwy169/ (https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/i494-airport-hwy169/)) is also going to construction this year and includes:
- A E-ZPass lane from Hwy 100 to I-35W in each direction
- A new northbound I-35W to westbound I-494 ramp at the I-35W and I-494 interchange
- Remove ramp I-494 access at Nicollet and 12th Ave. It will also create a full interchange at Portland Ave for access to and from I-494
- A new pedestrian bridge at Chicago Ave across I-494.
In addition to MN 252, I think the northern-most portion of MN 280 should also have been constructed to freeway standards.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 03, 2023, 11:49:31 AM
In addition to MN 252, I think the northern-most portion of MN 280 should also have been constructed to freeway standards.
280 has been full freeway northbound for 15 years. The Broadway intersection only has a stoplight going south.
I don't know why they didn't just seize the opportunity to permanently close that Broadway intersection when it was temporarily closed after the bridge collapse.
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 05, 2023, 03:34:26 AM
I don't know why they didn't just seize the opportunity to permanently close that Broadway intersection when it was temporarily closed after the bridge collapse.
No one will ever accuse MnDOT of being pragmatic and forward-thinking.
Permanently closing it would have required Municipal Consent from Roseville and Lauderdale. Even though there's only a short segment of Broadway between 280 and the Minneapolis line, it's enough to provide access to the businesses squeezed between 280 and the rail spur. I've seen references that those business are the reason why the intersection at Broadway remains. MnDOT *had* wanted a full freeway.
The roundabout craze in the Twin Cities is about to hit a new low.
There is a proposal to replace the traffic signal at Louisiana Ave and Cedar Lake Road with a roundabout.
This intersection is often clogged with traffic, especially at rush hour.
It also sees an unusually heavy volume of emergency vehicles, because one of St Louis Park's fire stations is just to the north of the intersection, and ambulances headed from I-394 and Golden Valley to Methodist Hospital (which is two miles south of the intersection) take Louisiana through the intersection to the hospital.
Although the roundabouts on Louisiana Ave between MN 7 and Methodist Hospital have worked okay, traffic volumes on Cedar Lake Road are much higher than on the streets south of MN 7. Also, the traffic volume on Louisiana between Minnetonka Boulevard and 394 is much higher than it is further south; during the afternoon rush hour, traffic on southbound Louisiana often backs up past the fire station.
I seriously question how a roundabout will be able to effectively (1) handle rush hour traffic, and (2) quickly get ambulances and fire trucks through the intersection if it is already clogged with rush hour traffic.
A 2-lane roundabout should function better than the existing intersection. if what the city's proposing is a single-lane roundabout, then yes I would question that.
I recently did a driving trip down to Florida, and was gritting my teeth at the sheer number of stoplighted intersections there, the timing of which didn't seem to be synced up at all and the cycle times were really long. After just a few days of that I was pining for roundabouts in a way I never thought I would.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on April 07, 2023, 04:46:43 AM
The roundabout craze in the Twin Cities is about to hit a new low.
There is a proposal to replace the traffic signal at Louisiana Ave and Cedar Lake Road with a roundabout.
This intersection is often clogged with traffic, especially at rush hour.
It also sees an unusually heavy volume of emergency vehicles, because one of St Louis Park's fire stations is just to the north of the intersection, and ambulances headed from I-394 and Golden Valley to Methodist Hospital (which is two miles south of the intersection) take Louisiana through the intersection to the hospital.
Although the roundabouts on Louisiana Ave between MN 7 and Methodist Hospital have worked okay, traffic volumes on Cedar Lake Road are much higher than on the streets south of MN 7. Also, the traffic volume on Louisiana between Minnetonka Boulevard and 394 is much higher than it is further south; during the afternoon rush hour, traffic on southbound Louisiana often backs up past the fire station.
I seriously question how a roundabout will be able to effectively (1) handle rush hour traffic, and (2) quickly get ambulances and fire trucks through the intersection if it is already clogged with rush hour traffic.
It has been a year since I've gone to that area, but my question is: did they even try installing flashing left yellow arrows at that intersection before deciding on a roundabout? Google Streetview imagery only goes back to 2019 as most recent and they were not installed then.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy169plymouth-newhope/
This one came on my radar recently b/c I have family that it will impact and the closure begins Monday.
Long story short: Rockford Rd/CSAH 9 will close entirely through the interchange while it and the bridge are reconstructed into a folded-diamond. While the project website doesn't show all the details (yet), I received a graphic from the city of Plymouth that shows it will be folded to the north (all ramps on the north side of Rockford Rd). All left turns will have dual-turn-lanes, as will the right turn from the NB off-ramp to WB Rockford.
The Rockford Rd layout was in the 2020 TAB Grant application.
Quote from: Mdcastle on April 09, 2023, 06:13:00 PM
The Rockford Rd layout was in the 2020 TAB Grant application.
They're going to give similar treatment to the Bass Lake cloverleaf in the next couple years I assume?
Quote from: Mdcastle on April 09, 2023, 06:13:00 PM
The Rockford Rd layout was in the 2020 TAB Grant application.
Point being that one has to do some not insignificant digging in order to find it. If one (especially one not as much into roads as those on this forum) were to look at MnDOT's project website, they wouldn't have a clue as to what the final product will look like.
Yeah, it's getting harder and harder to find actual roadgeek quality conent on MnDOTs site. Most of the projects don't have layouts any more, and the removed the meeting minutes for the lighting and signal comittees.
The MnDOT project list is out.
Continuing projects from last year:
-US 10 freeway conversion and reconstruction/improvements to existing freeway in Anoka/Ramsey
-US 169 freeway conversion in Elk River
-Can of Worms interchange rebuild in Duluth
-US 14 four-laning between New Ulm and Nicollet, which will finish the 4-lane road between New Ulm and Rochester
-Reconstruction and reconfiguration of US 10/TH 23 interchange in St. Cloud replacing the decrepit bridges and turning the ancient cloverleaf into a folded diamond
-TH 23 four-laning in the "North Gap" between Paynesville and Richmond
New projects
-Two staggered projects on I-494 in Bloomington/Eagan with spring/summer-focused bridge repairs and pavement rehab from 24th Ave to Pilot Knob, then in the late fall the I-494 reconstruction centered on rebuild/widen with MnPass lane and reconfiguring the I-35W interchange along with other interchange modifications begins
-TH 23 four-laning in the "South Gap" between New London and Paynesville
-(previously discussed) Reconfiguring the US 169/Rockford Road cloverleaf into a folded diamond in New Hope
-Conversion of US 2/TH 194 intersection west of Duluth into a roundabout
-Reonstruction of most of US 169/TH 210 duplex segment in Aitkin County
-Resurfacing/bridge repair on I-90 between US 169 in Blue Earth and TH 22
-I-94 maintenance from Century Avenue to Woodbury Drive including auxiliary lane extension from Radio Drive to Woodbury Drive
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html
^ I went into a bit more detail on the new roundabouts, interchanges, and widening projects a couple months ago (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg2818184#msg2818184). A number of roundabouts coming to state routes this year.
Article detailing some of the major construction projects to happen in the state this year:
QuoteSignificant projects this year
Improving Highway 52 between the Twin Cities Area and Rochester: Continuing a multi-year project on Highway 52 between Rosemount and Hampton, including resurfacing concrete, repairing and updating bridges, and installing cable median barrier; and entering the final year of a three-year project on Highway 52 between Zumbrota and Cannon Falls that includes reconstructing southbound lanes, replacing bridges, improving safety by closing specific accesses, building a noise wall and installing permanent snow fence.
Continuing a multi-year project on Highway 10 in Anoka, including replacing and repairing bridges to improve traffic flow, safety and provide better pedestrian and bicycle access.
Continuing multi-year freeway construction of Highway 169 in Elk River, including four new interchanges that will improve traffic flow, increase capacity and improve motorist and pedestrian safety.
Entering final year of the project to expand Highway 14 between New Ulm and Nicollet from two lanes to four lanes, and complete a continuous four-lane road between New Ulm and Rochester.
Continuing work on the multi-year Twin Ports Interchange project in Duluth to enhance safety by eliminating blind merges and left exits, replacing aging infrastructure and improving freight mobility.
Redecking and repairing the I-35 Atkinson Bridge over Carlton County Road 61.
Resurfacing Highway 59 south of Thief River Falls, including culvert replacements, shoulder widening and a roundabout at the intersection of Highway 59 with Pennington County Road 3 to provide a smoother ride, improve drainage and a safer intersection.
Beginning a two-year reconstruction of the Highway 10/ 23 interchange area in east St. Cloud, including the road surface, bridges, drainage structures, pedestrian and motorist access.
Resurfacing westbound I-94, west of Alexandria near Highway 114 and improving the I-94 and Highway 27 interchange near Alexandria, including constructing roundabouts at both the westbound and eastbound ramps to improve mobility and traffic flow.
Beginning a two-year I-35 at Faribault project that will resurface 4.6 miles of the interstate and make other improvements.
Beginning a two-year Corridors of Commerce project to expand Highway 23 from New London to Paynesville to four lanes.
- https://www.dot.state.mn.us/news/2023/04/12-construction-kickoff.html
As far as the upcoming US 2/TH 194 roundabout outside of Duluth is concerned, it's probably one of the better spots to drop one. US 2 is a TOTSO, it's a rural intersection with 60 MPH speed limits and poor sightlines, and it's been the site of some nasty accidents over the years.
Looks like a good location for a roundabout.
Washington County votes to take over a section of 58th St in Oak Park Heights with the intention of eventually connecting the southern stub of Manning Avenue on the south side of TH 36 to Stillwater Blvd. The city vehemently objected to the decision.
https://www.twincities.com/2023/04/18/washington-county-takes-steps-to-complete-highway-connection-by-taking-over-road-in-oak-park-heights/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=tw-PioneerPress&utm_campaign=socialflow
The Transportation Omnibus bill is going through the House right now.
-Hornstein supported an amendment from West to add $25 mil in funding to turn Highway 65 into a freeway.
^^ Couldn't read the article, but guessing they want to connect 58th at Stillwater Blvd to the EB ramps at Manning?
Exactly, there was a detailed layout of it in a 2020 TAB grant application.
Quote from: Trademark on April 19, 2023, 12:12:09 AM
The Transportation Omnibus bill is going through the House right now.
-Hornstein supported an amendment from West to add $25 mil in funding to turn Highway 65 into a freeway.
Starting north of Blaine? Or south of old US10?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 09, 2023, 08:21:55 PM
On a happier note, a bill is advancing to designate TH 5 in Chanhassen as the Prince Rogers Nelson Memorial Highway.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF717&type=bill&version=0&session=ls93&session_year=2023&session_number=0
The bill passed and was signed, with (purple) signs to be installed this summer. The official length of the Prince memorial designation is from Mitchell Road in Eden Prairie to TH 41 in Chanhassen. His longtime Chanhassen home of Paisley Park is along the route.
Quote
Subd. 102. Prince Rogers Nelson Memorial Highway. The segment of marked Trunk
Highway 5 from Hennepin County State-Aid Highway 60, known as Mitchell Road, in
Eden Prairie, to the westerly side of the intersection with marked Trunk Highway 41, known
as Hazeltine Boulevard, in Chanhassen is designated "Prince Rogers Nelson Memorial
Highway." Subject to section 161.139, the commissioner must adopt a suitable design to
mark this highway and erect appropriate signs. The signs must be purple in color.
I expect to see a lot of little red Corvettes out there this summer.
If any of you ever drive on that route, you will also have the right to go crazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJhDltzYVQ
Augie Mueller is rolling around in his grave.
Quote from: Mdcastle on May 10, 2023, 10:54:19 AM
Augie Mueller is rolling around in his grave.
Heh, there are no signs posted marking that it's his memorial road anyway.
I noticed the temporary auxiliary lane on westbound Crosstown between Valley View Road and TH 100 in Edina that was used during the I-35W rebuild looks like it will be coming back, as the temporary "100 NORTH EXIT ONLY" sign used during that period has reappeared (though currently patched over). I'm guessing this is related to the upcoming I-494 projects somehow?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 12, 2023, 01:45:37 AM
I noticed the temporary auxiliary lane on westbound Crosstown between Valley View Road and TH 100 in Edina that was used during the I-35W rebuild looks like it will be coming back, as the temporary "100 NORTH EXIT ONLY" sign used during that period has reappeared (though currently patched over). I'm guessing this is related to the upcoming I-494 projects somehow?
Gosh, I do hope so.
Quote from: bschultzy on May 13, 2023, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 12, 2023, 01:45:37 AM
I noticed the temporary auxiliary lane on westbound Crosstown between Valley View Road and TH 100 in Edina that was used during the I-35W rebuild looks like it will be coming back, as the temporary "100 NORTH EXIT ONLY" sign used during that period has reappeared (though currently patched over). I'm guessing this is related to the upcoming I-494 projects somehow?
Gosh, I do hope so.
Yes, this is for 494 construction and will be in place through 2026
Quote from: Roadguy on May 14, 2023, 07:02:35 PM
Quote from: bschultzy on May 13, 2023, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 12, 2023, 01:45:37 AM
I noticed the temporary auxiliary lane on westbound Crosstown between Valley View Road and TH 100 in Edina that was used during the I-35W rebuild looks like it will be coming back, as the temporary "100 NORTH EXIT ONLY" sign used during that period has reappeared (though currently patched over). I'm guessing this is related to the upcoming I-494 projects somehow?
Gosh, I do hope so.
Yes, this is for 494 construction and will be in place through 2026
Oddly enough, MnDOT said they removed the temporary lane last year because the shoulder isn't constructed to handle the wear and tear, but it must be able to handle an additional three years of traffic.
Minnesota approves a gas tax hike indexed to inflation (in Minnesota, the gas tax is required by the state constitution to fund road projects). A 50 cent delivery fee on non-essential retail deliveries over $100 will also be instituted to raise revenue for highway funding.
The governor will sign the transportation bill with the increases into law.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF2887&version=0&session=ls93.0&session_year=2023&session_number=0&type=ccr
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/minnesota-legislature-passes-transportation-bill-with-delivery-fees-gas-tax-increase/
Some of the road project funding mentioned in the bonding bill:
-TH 65 freeway in Blaine
-US 8 rebuild from I-35 to Chisago City
Interchange studies or early groundwork:
-TH 36 at CSAH 17 (Lake Elmo Avenue) near Stillwater
-US 169/Sherburne CSAH 4 (Fremont Avenue) in Zimmerman, if/when built between this and the Elk River freeway would remove all stoplights on 169 between US 10/TH 101 and Lake Mille Lacs
-US 10/169 at Anoka CSAH 56 (Ramsey Blvd) and 57 (Sunfish Lake Blvd) in Ramsey
-I-35E at County Road J in Centerville (turning this from the current half-diamond to a full interchange)
-US 14 at Olmsted CSAH 44
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?session=ls93&number=HF669&session_number=0&session_year=2023&version=list
A few other things of note from that bonding bill:
- Fridley wants to extend 57th Ave NE across the BNSF tracks, and got $4M from the bonding bill for that.
- Another reconstruction of the Hennepin Ave Bridge over the Mississippi River
- Reconstruction of 117th St west of US 52 in Inver Grove Heights. This is notable because this is the routing CSAH 32 will eventually take to connect to 52.
- $25M for the Kellogg Blvd bridge in downtown St Paul
- Worth noting that the bonding bill doesn't actually ADD money to the 10/169 or 35E/CR J projects...it instead amends law to allow past bonding (in this case 2020) to be used for construction of the former and final design of the latter.
Quick question: What are the "UT" county routes in Koochiching County? They're clearly more minor than the un-prefixed ones. Wondering what that stands for.
Quote from: Alps on May 24, 2023, 11:36:44 PM
Quick question: What are the "UT" county routes in Koochiching County? They're clearly more minor than the un-prefixed ones. Wondering what that stands for.
Unincorporated Township. Lake and Cook County at minimum also post these.
I had to ask the same question last September (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg2767363#msg2767363) when I ran across UT shields (both independent-mount and guide-sign) in signing plans. From the follow-up discussion back then, it appears 16 counties, not all in the northern part of the state, have UT roads, and the shields are diagrammed in signing plans since they don't appear in the MnDOT standard signs manual.
Also in the bill is $250K to retire some bonds that were used for building improvements at Upper Sioux Agency State Park, presumably another step forward to the state abandoning the property now that the Highway Formerly Known as 67 is unusable and the Indians have been agitating for the state to give them the land.
I noticed tonight that the signs on TH 100 have been replaced between TH 55 and I-694 (with exit numbers now added). But what was also installed that I don't ever remember seeing before in Minnesota were large yellow ground-mounted "RIGHT LANE EXIT ONLY AHEAD" signs throughout the auxiliary lanes on the stretch. Usually a small white "RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT" or often no signs at all denoted these sorts of things.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 25, 2023, 12:06:59 AM
Quote from: Alps on May 24, 2023, 11:36:44 PM
Quick question: What are the "UT" county routes in Koochiching County? They're clearly more minor than the un-prefixed ones. Wondering what that stands for.
Unincorporated Township. Lake and Cook County at minimum also post these.
Thank you! I'll thank you in person again in a couple hours.
Quote from: Alps on May 26, 2023, 01:54:35 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 25, 2023, 12:06:59 AM
Quote from: Alps on May 24, 2023, 11:36:44 PM
Quick question: What are the "UT" county routes in Koochiching County? They're clearly more minor than the un-prefixed ones. Wondering what that stands for.
Unincorporated Township. Lake and Cook County at minimum also post these.
Thank you! I'll thank you in person again in a couple hours.
I believe it's actually "Unorganized Township" which is basically the same idea. There is no local government entity below the county in some of those remote reaches of northern and northeastern Minnesota. So much of it is public land anyway, there's no point in trying to organize 20 people with cabins into a municipal township.
Should be a few "UT" county routes in St. Louis County as well since it goes all the way to the border and there are definitely no townships up there in the boundary waters.
A 2021 article that talks a bit more in depth about the UT roads can be found here: https://www.boreal.org/2021/10/01/370109/county-connections-unorganized-territory-ut-roads
I haven't seen any in St. Louis County, but of course those far northern reaches where they could theoretically exist are going to be largely water too.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 02, 2023, 12:12:20 AM
I haven't seen any in St. Louis County, but of course those far northern reaches where they could theoretically exist are going to be largely water too.
According to MnDOT data, there are 323 centerline miles of UT road in St. Louis County, so they gotta exist somewhere.
Took a look at MnDOT's EMMA mapping app. They seem to be spread across the county...several along CSAH 4 north of Duluth, as close to Duluth as the north side of Island Lake.
There is more information on UT roads in a previous discussion (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6510.msg2767363#msg2767363) in this thread. Yes, St. Louis County does have UT roads--I posted Google StreetView of two (complete with shields). And I think you, Froggie, discovered there are 16 counties, not all in northern Minnesota, with UT roads.
Didn't intend to imply that they didn't exist (just that I had never seen any myself), but I'm just going to show myself out before I make myself look any dumber.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 02, 2023, 05:14:53 PMDidn't intend to imply that they didn't exist (just that I had never seen any myself), but I'm just going to show myself out before I make myself look any dumber.
Don't feel bad--I found UT roads in St. Louis County only because the plans for the SP 8821-353 sign replacement furnished a cheat sheet. MnDOT signing contracts with control sections of 88XX tend to be districtwide jobs, but this one focuses on US 53 in St. Louis and Koochiching Counties. In many cases, perhaps most, UT roads will be signed far more conspicuously from US 53 than they are now.
Here's an example:
(https://i.imgur.com/6HXSUw8.png)
Google Maps not only fails (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.2176906,-92.913494,19.37z?entry=ttu) to show Jacobs Road as UT 8146; it also misleadingly labels it as CR 519. StreetView imagery (the latest of which dates from November 2015) shows a UT 8146 shield (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.2179146,-92.9131093,3a,15y,216.93h,85.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYabS5Jb62oD0lPQfoPIvuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu) on Jacobs Road itself but no existing signing on US 53 referencing a UT route.
I don't know the current status of construction on SP 8821-353.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 02, 2023, 05:14:53 PM
Didn't intend to imply that they didn't exist (just that I had never seen any myself), but I'm just going to show myself out before I make myself look any dumber.
That they exist is one thing. Whether they're signed (and thus visible in the field) or not is another story.
My initial reaction was that there may not be many in St. Louis County because the county seems to throw a county route shield on practically every cowpath.
The only spot I've seen where MN/DOT has signed a UT road (other than US 53) is on TH 61 near Knife River where 61 intersects CSAH 25 and UT 7. It's a pretty recent installation that replaced an older sign that had the roadway marked as CR 103.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 26, 2023, 02:22:08 AM
I noticed tonight that the signs on TH 100 have been replaced between TH 55 and I-694 (with exit numbers now added). But what was also installed that I don't ever remember seeing before in Minnesota were large yellow ground-mounted "RIGHT LANE EXIT ONLY AHEAD" signs throughout the auxiliary lanes on the stretch. Usually a small white "RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT" or often no signs at all denoted these sorts of things.
Apparently I was not the only one who noticed, as the Strib did a bit on this subject today. MnDOT's sometimes ambiguous job of explicity signing auxiliary lanes as "Exit Only" evidently caught up with it.
Quote from: Eric Peterson, MnDOT sign engineer
"Yes, there has been a history of late lane changes in these types of lanes," said Eric Peterson, MnDOT metro sign engineer. "They also generate frequent complaints and questions about why some lanes are not signed this way."
https://www.startribune.com/why-new-exit-only-signs-have-appeared-on-hwy-100/600280100/
Quick work being done on the US 52 (Rosemount and south) and I-94 reconstructions in Afton/Woodbury. PCC (concrete) is already being laid in both projects. Both very much in need of rebuilding, with I-94 being the roughest.
A couple winters ago we discussed the US 52/Dakota CSAH 66 interchange study, Dakota County proposing eminent domain for the interchange, and the objections of the Hmong farmers' group that owns the land. To put a bow on that, the new bonding bill prohibits eminent domain from being used to seize that particular land for an interchange, but MnDOT had already dropped any further immediate interest in an interchange at that intersection anyway due to cost concerns.
https://www.startribune.com/bonding-bill-saves-dakota-county-fields-for-minnesota-hmong-farmers/600282125/
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.
Quote from: Mdcastle on June 15, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.
Culverts have become very expensive, so that pricetag is not surprising in the least.
Quote from: Mdcastle on June 15, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.
Plus the original millions to purchase the farm in the first place. Yet this legislator doesn't realize it still leaves the intersection with US 52 and Dakota County Rd 66 very unsafe permanently. About the only choice left is to close it off from US52 as eminent domain is not an option.
No idea where this culvert would go in the first place from a design perspective due to the hill it would create while still meeting design standards for the 65 mph freeway and not obstruct sight lines for the existing access / u-turns.
Lastly, what's going to hold up construction of the culvert is the maintenance and ownership. MnDOT is not going to own and maintain it and legally a government entity in Minnesota must agree to own and maintain it as MnDOT does not have agreements with private or non-profit entities. Dakota County and Vermillion Township are certainly not going to agree to maintain it as well.
Quote from: Mdcastle on June 15, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.
If it eliminates a median crossing and/or farm equipment crossing 52 at-grade (the former is my speculation given the location, the latter is cited in the article), then there *IS* a transportation benefit to that box culvert.
But even before this legislation, Dakota County had concluded back in February that an interchange project in the near term was too costly for the county to pursue on its own. (https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Transportation/PlannedConstruction/CR66/Pages/default.aspx)
Given the situation with the Hmong farm, not to mention the proximity to the Vermillion River, my money is on them eventually building an interchange at CR 62 and closing access at 66. But they won't do that until they land some outside money (or a "pop-up project" as Monte has coined them in the past).
Quote from: Mdcastle on June 15, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
And hard working taxpayers in the state get gouged $2 million for a box culvert just for this one farm.
And HAFA farmers aren’t hard-working taxpayers? (that provide one half of the produce sold at TC farmers’ markets.)
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?
535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?
535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.
OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?
535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.
OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.
The bridge is open, yes.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?
535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.
OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.
The bridge is open, yes.
OK, sorry to be a pain, but I want to be sure. Google maps is telling me that I can cross the bridge in either direction, but that Garfield Ave is closed at I-535, so in effect there's no way to get on/off I-535 at the north end of the bridge.
But you're saying I can cross the bridge northbound and exit at Garfield and get into Duluth from there?
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?
535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.
OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.
The bridge is open, yes.
OK, sorry to be a pain, but I want to be sure. Google maps is telling me that I can cross the bridge in either direction, but that Garfield Ave is closed at I-535, so in effect there's no way to get on/off I-535 at the north end of the bridge.
But you're saying I can cross the bridge northbound and exit at Garfield and get into Duluth from there?
Not a pain at all, it's good to check and be sure. That is correct that you can cross the Blatnik from Superior to Duluth and be forced off the freeway at Garfield Ave.
Stumbled upon the 2022 regional project solicitations (https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetings/Committees/Transportation-Advisory-Board-TAB/TAB-Technical-Advisory-Committee/2022/TAC-Meeting-8-03-22/Info-Item-3a_Roadways-Including-Multimodal-Element.aspx) to the Met Council. Some interesting things in there. Besides a plethora of roundabouts and road diet proposals, there are proposals to convert 2 interchanges from 5-ramp par-clo's to DDIs: US 169/CSAH 130 and I-94/MN 101. Another proposal all-but-confirms that the plan for MN 13 at Nicollet Ave is for a grade separation and quadrant connection with a signal on 13 and a roundabout on Nicollet. There will also be a direct ramp from Nicollet to NB I-35W.
It frustrates me that this is the best that can be done now at 94/101 between costs and how built up that area has become compared to 20 years ago when the NW metro was in the early stages of its growth spurt.
Is a flyover from southbound 101 to eastbound 94 possible?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 27, 2023, 03:38:18 PM
It frustrates me that this is the best that can be done now at 94/101 between costs and how built up that area has become compared to 20 years ago when the NW metro was in the early stages of its growth spurt.
Agreed. I was hoping that, with at least official mapping, enough ROW could have been preserved. But I don't think the studies progressed far enough to make that a possibility.
Quote from: Molandfreak on June 27, 2023, 04:58:03 PM
Is a flyover from southbound 101 to eastbound 94 possible?
Physically? Probably, although it'd be a single lane and a very tight squeeze on both ends. And to clear Diamond Lake Rd, at least some aspect of it would not be up to standards whether grade, height above Diamond Lake Rd, or the short weave from the CSAH 144 on-ramp.
Financially? I doubt in the next 20-30 years. Too many problems elsewhere.
I have a feeling that the Interstate 94/MN 101 interchange will remain in its existing configuration permanently. Maybe if there wasn't so much development, a full freeway-to-freeway interchange could have been constructed.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 28, 2023, 11:12:12 AM
I have a feeling that the Interstate 94/MN 101 interchange will remain in its existing configuration permanently.
I don't think it's going to remain in its current form, but it's probably too late for anything better than the DDI being proposed. Building a proper flyover similar to the "bypass" ramp from westbound 94 to northbound 101 would be expensive to start with, and likely require taking out at least four businesses entirely and some of the Target parking lot.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 20, 2023, 09:25:17 AM
Question for anybody in the Duluth area: What is the current status of I-535, or more importantly, what will the status be on the 27th/28th? Google maps says it's closed in both directions. I'm planning a trip up there and would hate to not clinch I-535 while there?
535 is completely closed between Garfield Avenue and I-35 until this fall.
OK, is the bridge at least open? I could at least finish off the last stretch of Wisconsin interstate I'm missing.
The bridge is open, yes.
OK, sorry to be a pain, but I want to be sure. Google maps is telling me that I can cross the bridge in either direction, but that Garfield Ave is closed at I-535, so in effect there's no way to get on/off I-535 at the north end of the bridge.
But you're saying I can cross the bridge northbound and exit at Garfield and get into Duluth from there?
Not a pain at all, it's good to check and be sure. That is correct that you can cross the Blatnik from Superior to Duluth and be forced off the freeway at Garfield Ave.
Thank you for indulging me. Ultimately I decided to skip Duluth on this trip. I'm not likely to get up there more than once and I want to be able to clinch all of I-535 when I do.
Hopefully next summer.
The 2023—24 Official Highway map came out. Not too many additions, and some that should be there and were missed. The map did show the new alignment for US 14 around Claremont, but left out the western interchange with TH 56. Several new roundabouts in Inver Grove Heights were depicted. However, the map did not show the recent expansion of US 212 between Chaska and Cologne, the roundabouts/overpasses on US 12 In Independence, the new interchange at Trunk Highway 57 and US 52, Manning Ave./TH 36 interchange, the expansion of 371 toward Jenkins still has a poorly shown line type,and the interchange of US 169 and TH 41 is missing. What else?
This map is not posted on line yet. I picked up mine at MNDOT Central Office.
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on July 01, 2023, 01:01:13 PM
and the interchange of US 169 and TH 41 is missing.
That alone is ridiculous, the interchange opened 3 years ago...
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 01, 2023, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on July 01, 2023, 01:01:13 PM
and the interchange of US 169 and TH 41 is missing.
That alone is ridiculous, the interchange opened 3 years ago...
It's obvious they gave up on the map long ago when they straigh-up changed the background color of the interstate shields from black to red and blue while leaving the existing numerals in place, looks like total crap.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 04, 2023, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 26, 2023, 02:22:08 AM
I noticed tonight that the signs on TH 100 have been replaced between TH 55 and I-694 (with exit numbers now added). But what was also installed that I don't ever remember seeing before in Minnesota were large yellow ground-mounted "RIGHT LANE EXIT ONLY AHEAD" signs throughout the auxiliary lanes on the stretch. Usually a small white "RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT" or often no signs at all denoted these sorts of things.
Apparently I was not the only one who noticed, as the Strib did a bit on this subject today. MnDOT's sometimes ambiguous job of explicity signing auxiliary lanes as "Exit Only" evidently caught up with it.
Quote from: Eric Peterson, MnDOT sign engineer
"Yes, there has been a history of late lane changes in these types of lanes," said Eric Peterson, MnDOT metro sign engineer. "They also generate frequent complaints and questions about why some lanes are not signed this way."
https://www.startribune.com/why-new-exit-only-signs-have-appeared-on-hwy-100/600280100/
I finally drove this stretch of 100 and think the new signage is more clear and effective. The exit numbers are a nice touch. Hopefully they improve some of the signage and add exit numbers south through SLP and Edina. There's way too much weaving and people missing exits in the stretch from Minnetonka Blvd. to Excelsior Blvd. If they do add exit #s on the southern half of 100, here's what I think they'd be:
SouthboundI-394 7CB
Cedar Lake Rd/Westside Dr. 7A
Minnetonka Blvd 6C
Hwy 7&25 6BA
36th St/Excelsior Blvd 5BA
50th St/Eden Ave 4
Benton Ave 3
MN62 2BA
70th St 1D
77th St 1C
I-494 1BA
NorthboundI-494 1AB
77th St 1C
70th St 1D
MN 62 2AB
50th St/Eden Ave 4
Excelsior Blvd 5A
36th St 5B
Hwy 7&25 6A (not sure what rules are for exit numbers when ramps are different in opposite directions)
Minnetonka Blvd 6C
Barry St/Cedar Lake Rd 7A
I-394 7BC
Quote from: bschultzy on July 05, 2023, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 04, 2023, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 26, 2023, 02:22:08 AM
I noticed tonight that the signs on TH 100 have been replaced between TH 55 and I-694 (with exit numbers now added). But what was also installed that I don't ever remember seeing before in Minnesota were large yellow ground-mounted "RIGHT LANE EXIT ONLY AHEAD" signs throughout the auxiliary lanes on the stretch. Usually a small white "RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT" or often no signs at all denoted these sorts of things.
Apparently I was not the only one who noticed, as the Strib did a bit on this subject today. MnDOT's sometimes ambiguous job of explicity signing auxiliary lanes as "Exit Only" evidently caught up with it.
Quote from: Eric Peterson, MnDOT sign engineer
"Yes, there has been a history of late lane changes in these types of lanes," said Eric Peterson, MnDOT metro sign engineer. "They also generate frequent complaints and questions about why some lanes are not signed this way."
https://www.startribune.com/why-new-exit-only-signs-have-appeared-on-hwy-100/600280100/
I finally drove this stretch of 100 and think the new signage is more clear and effective. The exit numbers are a nice touch. Hopefully they improve some of the signage and add exit numbers south through SLP and Edina. There's way too much weaving and people missing exits in the stretch from Minnetonka Blvd. to Excelsior Blvd. If they do add exit #s on the southern half of 100, here's what I think they'd be:
Southbound
I-394 7CB
Cedar Lake Rd/Westside Dr. 7A
Minnetonka Blvd 6C
Hwy 7&25 6BA
36th St/Excelsior Blvd 5BA
50th St/Eden Ave 4
Benton Ave 3
MN62 2BA
70th St 1D
77th St 1C
I-494 1BA
Northbound
I-494 1AB
77th St 1C
70th St 1D
MN 62 2AB
50th St/Eden Ave 4
Excelsior Blvd 5A
36th St 5B
Hwy 7&25 6A (not sure what rules are for exit numbers when ramps are different in opposite directions)
Minnetonka Blvd 6C
Barry St/Cedar Lake Rd 7A
I-394 7BC
Regarding the Northbound Hwy 7 & County 25 exit, I would presume it would be signed as Exit 6 A-B, as it is one ramp providing access to both Hwy 7 and County 25. A similar example is the exit ramp leading to County H & County 10 on Southbound I-35W.
Quote from: andarcondadont on July 05, 2023, 01:39:29 PMRegarding the Northbound Hwy 7 & County 25 exit, I would presume it would be signed as Exit 6 A-B, as it is one ramp providing access to both Hwy 7 and County 25. A similar example is the exit ramp leading to County H & County 10 on Southbound I-35W.
That makes sense. Thanks!
Quote repaired. --J N Winkler
Corridors of Commerce funding released: https://www.keyc.com/2023/07/11/governor-walz-announces-380-million-state-grants-transportation-projects/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=keyc
Interchanges/grade separation funding:
US 14/Olmsted CSAH 44 between Byron and Rochester
TH 13/Nicollet/Quentin in Burnsville
TH 371/210 in Brainerd/Baxter
TH 9/23 in New London
Freeway conversion funding:
TH 65 in Blaine
Widening funding:
US 10 in Coon Rapids between Hanson Blvd and Round Lake Blvd
I-94 six-lane gap through Albertville and Monticello
General improvements:
US 53 in Eveleth and Virginia
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 11, 2023, 06:22:30 PM
Corridors of Commerce funding released: https://www.keyc.com/2023/07/11/governor-walz-announces-380-million-state-grants-transportation-projects/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=keyc
Interchanges/grade separation funding:
TH 13/Nicollet/Quentin in Burnsville
MN 13/Quentin would be Savage, correct?
^ Correct. Once the current interchange at Dakota is completed, Quentin will be the first traffic signal one encounters coming from 169.
My take is it's the Quentin to Nicollet corridor in general, AFAIK Nicollet is the only specifically identified project at this point.
The "General Improvements", to put it less obtusely, is most notably a roundabout at US 53 and Progress Park, and backage road, due to the new consolidated high school they're building in the middle of the woods between Virginia and Evelelth.
That's not my favorite place I've ever heard of to stick a roundabout as it will go inbetween two interchanges on a 55 MPH 4-lane expressway where people driving north especially have been zoned out for the previous hour. (Yes, I know there's a stoplight at that intersection now)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 15, 2023, 11:39:34 PM
That's not my favorite place I've ever heard of to stick a roundabout as it will go inbetween two interchanges on a 55 MPH 4-lane expressway where people driving north especially have been zoned out for the previous hour. (Yes, I know there's a stoplight at that intersection now)
Unfortunately, I think this is the best they can do for a declining town like Eveleth. It's sort of like the US 212 corridor where everyone in the area seems to want a freeway built, but the tax base and traffic just aren't there to justify it. There are other things that could be done to make the roundabout less of a surprise, and certainly less of a surprise than the current traffic light is.
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 16, 2023, 02:07:20 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 15, 2023, 11:39:34 PM
That's not my favorite place I've ever heard of to stick a roundabout as it will go inbetween two interchanges on a 55 MPH 4-lane expressway where people driving north especially have been zoned out for the previous hour. (Yes, I know there's a stoplight at that intersection now)
Unfortunately, I think this is the best they can do for a declining town like Eveleth. It's sort of like the US 212 corridor where everyone in the area seems to want a freeway built, but the tax base and traffic just aren't there to justify it. There are other things that could be done to make the roundabout less of a surprise, and certainly less of a surprise than the current traffic light is.
Yeah, I mean I'm not advocating for an interchange, just unsure what the right option is.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 16, 2023, 03:07:06 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 16, 2023, 02:07:20 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 15, 2023, 11:39:34 PM
That's not my favorite place I've ever heard of to stick a roundabout as it will go inbetween two interchanges on a 55 MPH 4-lane expressway where people driving north especially have been zoned out for the previous hour. (Yes, I know there's a stoplight at that intersection now)
Unfortunately, I think this is the best they can do for a declining town like Eveleth. It's sort of like the US 212 corridor where everyone in the area seems to want a freeway built, but the tax base and traffic just aren't there to justify it. There are other things that could be done to make the roundabout less of a surprise, and certainly less of a surprise than the current traffic light is.
Yeah, I mean I'm not advocating for an interchange, just unsure what the right option is.
I wonder if an overpass was studied here. Seems like that combined with converting the intersections immediately north and south of Progress Parkway into reduced-conflict intersections would be a nice scenario.
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 14, 2023, 11:51:33 AM
The "General Improvements", to put it less obtusely, is most notably a roundabout at US 53 and Progress Park, and backage road, due to the new consolidated high school they're building in the middle of the woods between Virginia and Evelelth.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 15, 2023, 11:39:34 PMThat's not my favorite place I've ever heard of to stick a roundabout as it will go inbetween two interchanges on a 55 MPH 4-lane expressway where people driving north especially have been zoned out for the previous hour. (Yes, I know there's a stoplight at that intersection now)
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 16, 2023, 02:07:20 PMUnfortunately, I think this is the best they can do for a declining town like Eveleth. It's sort of like the US 212 corridor where everyone in the area seems to want a freeway built, but the tax base and traffic just aren't there to justify it. There are other things that could be done to make the roundabout less of a surprise, and certainly less of a surprise than the current traffic light is.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 16, 2023, 03:07:06 PMYeah, I mean I'm not advocating for an interchange, just unsure what the right option is.
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 16, 2023, 04:43:39 PMI wonder if an overpass was studied here. Seems like that combined with converting the intersections immediately north and south of Progress Parkway into reduced-conflict intersections would be a nice scenario.
Given MnDOT's relative generosity elsewhere, I suspect the overpass was looked at and rejected. I would suggest they look harder.
It would be one thing if US-53 wasn't built as a near-freeway mainline route throughout the area. Having stoplights on such a road is bad enough.
With numerous overpasses and high-speed interchanges already in place, putting a roundabout here just feels dumb. Worse, I suspect this one will get its fair share of folks who "didn't see" the roundabout and plow right through it.
An overpass and interchange at Bourgin Rd and Old US-53 would be ideal, with reduced-conflict intersections at other locations. Even if it's just reduced-conflict intersections throughout, that will do the job without diminishing US-53 to just a local city street. Though unlikely to receive heavy use, a pedestrian underpass under US-53 would at least give pretense of folks being able to walk to school.
MnDOT has put out its options for "rethinking" I-94 between Minneapolis and St Paul
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23879188-rethinking-i-94-project-one-pagers-july-14-2023?responsive=1&title=1
I think this is just a dog and pony show before they announce they'll keep the freeway as it is with some minor improvements.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23willmar/
Looks like MnDOT is completing a regular diamond interchange on MN 23 at CSAH 5 on the southwest side of Willmar. Currently, only the eastbound on-ramp is what would be considered a "normal ramp".
I've asked for a PDF of the layout.
Quote from: kernals12 on July 17, 2023, 07:15:07 PM
MnDOT has put out its options for "rethinking" I-94 between Minneapolis and St Paul
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23879188-rethinking-i-94-project-one-pagers-july-14-2023?responsive=1&title=1
I think this is just a dog and pony show before they announce they'll keep the freeway as it is with some minor improvements.
I'm glad this document finally came out. I know they're all alternatives at this point, but I can imagine the hardline freeway removal groups gasped when they saw the expanded 94 alternatives alongside their preferred removals. The whole situation is so difficult to fathom and I doubt much changes when the project is implemented. My guess is that the freeway stays the same but the bus shoulders are fully implemented. I would also assume that St. Anthony and Concordia Aves get a great deal of attention regarding design, speed, etc. Right now, speeding is rampant on those frontage roads and they're horrible for cars, bikes, and peds.
I have a great deal of empathy for those who were affected when the freeway was built as well as those whose life and health are impacted by it. I work at a university that sits on 94 and know the depth of hurt and harm done to the residents of Rondo. It's clear the freeway was and still is a detriment to the neighborhoods along 94.
I also don't know how viable full removal of the freeway would be. I understand induced demand and examples outside the US of successful urban freeway removals more similar to this proposal (not thinking of spur or stub removals here). But I think there's such a volume of drivers who will cause more traffic to use city streets, 694, 494, 62, 36, and 280 rather than not drive or use public transit. We love our cars.
For example, I live in a first ring suburb in the west metro and commute to that university on 94. Right now, I can drive to my office in about 25-30 minutes in the morning. Metro Transit would take about 1:20 right now. When the Green Line Extension opens, that reduces to about an hour. Unless freeway removal increases my drive time to more than public transit, I would still drive to work.
Quote from: JREwing78 on July 17, 2023, 01:47:05 PM
An overpass and interchange at Bourgin Rd and Old US-53 would be ideal, with reduced-conflict intersections at other locations. Even if it's just reduced-conflict intersections throughout, that will do the job without diminishing US-53 to just a local city street. Though unlikely to receive heavy use, a pedestrian underpass under US-53 would at least give pretense of folks being able to walk to school.
I think an overpass at Progress Parkway would provide a reliable route for buses and pedestrians, and wouldn't require separate infrastructure for pedestrians to avoid a lengthy detour. The Bourgin Road intersection could even be converted to a RIRO for safe access.
I'm not totally against the idea of roundabouts on 53, but installing one in this location is a disaster waiting to happen. Replacing the lights in Virginia with roundabouts (and pedestrian tunnels) might be ok with the new bridge requiring northbound traffic to slow down.
Quote from: froggie on July 18, 2023, 09:23:49 AM
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d8/projects/hwy23willmar/
Looks like MnDOT is completing a regular diamond interchange on MN 23 at CSAH 5 on the southwest side of Willmar. Currently, only the eastbound on-ramp is what would be considered a "normal ramp".
I've asked for a PDF of the layout.
Good deal. Now Willmar won't feel like a wasteland of poorly-connected stubs for the first time in 15 years.
Does anyone know why they decided not to extend MN 40 north on CSAH 5 to reconnect with US 12 after the Willmar Wye project?
Quote from: bschultzy on July 18, 2023, 10:50:44 AM
For example, I live in a first ring suburb in the west metro and commute to that university on 94. Right now, I can drive to my office in about 25-30 minutes in the morning. Metro Transit would take about 1:20 right now. When the Green Line Extension opens, that reduces to about an hour. Unless freeway removal increases my drive time to more than public transit, I would still drive to work.
I think this outlines the most basic problem. Currently you can drive from downtown Minneapolis to downtown St. Paul in 15 minutes if traffic is a minimal factor. The idea of making it more difficult to get between the state's largest city and its state capital/second largest city to me is a valid concern that no one has asked about. There seems to be a lot of "remove it tomorrow and figure it out later".
The state seems to favor the land bridge, which some of the removal activists say is still an unacceptable solution, but I think it's the best of both worlds in this difficult situation. Even if it requires shrinking the freeway to 3 lanes each way to accommodate, it will also help the aforementioned issues on St. Anthony and Concordia.
Quote from: bschultzy on July 18, 2023, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on July 17, 2023, 07:15:07 PM
MnDOT has put out its options for "rethinking" I-94 between Minneapolis and St Paul
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23879188-rethinking-i-94-project-one-pagers-july-14-2023?responsive=1&title=1
I think this is just a dog and pony show before they announce they'll keep the freeway as it is with some minor improvements.
I'm glad this document finally came out. I know they're all alternatives at this point, but I can imagine the hardline freeway removal groups gasped when they saw the expanded 94 alternatives alongside their preferred removals. The whole situation is so difficult to fathom and I doubt much changes when the project is implemented. My guess is that the freeway stays the same but the bus shoulders are fully implemented. I would also assume that St. Anthony and Concordia Aves get a great deal of attention regarding design, speed, etc. Right now, speeding is rampant on those frontage roads and they're horrible for cars, bikes, and peds.
I have a great deal of empathy for those who were affected when the freeway was built as well as those whose life and health are impacted by it. I work at a university that sits on 94 and know the depth of hurt and harm done to the residents of Rondo. It's clear the freeway was and still is a detriment to the neighborhoods along 94.
I also don't know how viable full removal of the freeway would be. I understand induced demand and examples outside the US of successful urban freeway removals more similar to this proposal (not thinking of spur or stub removals here). But I think there's such a volume of drivers who will cause more traffic to use city streets, 694, 494, 62, 36, and 280 rather than not drive or use public transit. We love our cars.
For example, I live in a first ring suburb in the west metro and commute to that university on 94. Right now, I can drive to my office in about 25-30 minutes in the morning. Metro Transit would take about 1:20 right now. When the Green Line Extension opens, that reduces to about an hour. Unless freeway removal increases my drive time to more than public transit, I would still drive to work.
Minneapolis has experience with freeway removal when the I-35 bridge collapsed. It was not positive at all.
And I'm guessing Rondo residents use i-94 very frequently. It also serves that neighborhood by pulling traffic off of surface streets.
The barrier effect of it can be greatly reduced by adding more bridges.
Any proposal that reduces traffic lanes or replaces the existing freeway with an at-grade roadway (which some alternatives do) is a no-go in my book. I would pick either Expanded Freeway alternative with a "land bridge" to cover the freeway.
My biggest issue for a long time has been the lane drop under the Snelling overpass. If nothing else I would like that filled.
When traffic is lighter, it's moving +10 at the bare minimum east of 280.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 18, 2023, 05:48:49 PM
My biggest issue for a long time has been the lane drop under the Snelling overpass. If nothing else I would like that filled.
That lane drop sucks. I also think the proximity of the WB onramp at Lexington to the offramp to Hamline needs to be reimagined. It's rough that drivers have to dodge cars exiting at Hamline *and* have to get over to continue on 94 WB as the right lane becomes exit only to Snelling.
It would be very odd for MnDOT to convert a freeway into a boulevard when they are planning to do the opposite, convert a boulevard, SH 252, to a freeway, not far away.
The boulevard and the expanded freeway options are both DOA in my opinion. St. Paul doesn't want the latter and acted dumbfounded MnDOT even showed up with those alternatives.
The long-awaited 77th St. underpass beneath TH 77/Cedar Avenue in Richfield near the airport is finally complete, with the hope it takes some local trips off of I-494.
https://www.startribune.com/new-tunnel-under-hwy-77-years-in-the-making-is-open/600293066/?fbclid=IwAR2nNmirI4s2E1ALYzpYKOJyw4kOnxumi6cDsG4yTDhIc2GgIgGfGwSx8CY
I took a day drive out into western MN along Lake Traverse today, clinching TH 27, 28, and 117.
-The new roundabouts at the western I-94/TH 27 interchange on the west edge of Alexandria are open.
-I know construction signs are always of questionable quality, but I guess "New Muenich" is Minnesota's newest city.
-TH 117 may have replaced my longtime choice of TH 308 as Minnesota's most useless state highway. It's just a stub spur from TH 27 to the South Dakota border where the county road on the SD side neither connects directly to I-29 nor even to the town of Rosholt that BGSs direct you to reach via 117. This is the only reassurance sign on 117 in either direction. There is an END shield for a route that no one coming from the SD side even previously knew they were on. But I speculated elsewhere that MnDOT would probably have a hard time getting Traverse County (one of MN's least populated counties) to take it because it has two river bridges along its short length.
(https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/363375023_2545438465620187_2356059971619131449_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=110&cb=99be929b-59f725be&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=iOybZtdFTqUAX95i3dG&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCXKG0B4y6RwrGmFQvVJpkU4_H_qpFhpHdOB7Vdj293Yg&oe=64CBBE2E)
"New Muenich" gave me a laugh yesterday. At least they got rid of that I-34 detour sign near Alexandria a few weeks ago I think.
MN 117 is pointless but it is sort of pretty.
It looks like MN 263 has finally been turned back to Martin County. Most 263 signs have been replaced by Martin CR 27 signs, although I did manage to spot a remaining 263 sign along another intersecting county highway.
Quote from: flan on August 06, 2023, 01:54:28 AM
It looks like MN 263 has finally been turned back to Martin County. Most 263 signs have been replaced by Martin CR 27 signs, although I did manage to spot a remaining 263 sign along another intersecting county highway.
MnDOT is usually pretty spotless with these sorts of things, so it would be fun if they permanently missed this one.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 29, 2023, 12:17:02 AM
The long-awaited 77th St. underpass beneath TH 77/Cedar Avenue in Richfield near the airport is finally complete, with the hope it takes some local trips off of I-494.
https://www.startribune.com/new-tunnel-under-hwy-77-years-in-the-making-is-open/600293066/?fbclid=IwAR2nNmirI4s2E1ALYzpYKOJyw4kOnxumi6cDsG4yTDhIc2GgIgGfGwSx8CY
It's great this is finally done. Very strange, though, that the Strib would call it a tunnel when it's a typical underpass.
Just a funny thing I found; the City of Isanti thinks MN 65 is still a US highway apparently. Also "US Interstate 35".
Link (https://www.cityofisanti.us/sites/g/files/vyhlif726/f/uploads/19_chapter_8_-_transportation_-_3-11-2020.pdf)
Quote from: flan on August 10, 2023, 01:00:15 AM
Just a funny thing I found; the City of Isanti thinks MN 65 is still a US highway apparently. Also "US Interstate 35".
Link (https://www.cityofisanti.us/sites/g/files/vyhlif726/f/uploads/19_chapter_8_-_transportation_-_3-11-2020.pdf)
There's a local TV commercial around here that touts their location as "just off interstate I-39".
On Friday, I drove from Thunder Bay to Duluth on 61.
There were many stretches where the pavement was in such bad shape that it was beyond the end of its lifespan, especially in the Grand Marais area.
I know it would be a nightmare to do a full reconstruction in this area because of problems with alternate routes, but MnDoT can't keep patching the road forever.
Has there been any discussion of a rebuild of 61?
Several times over the years, me, my mother and my late stepfather traveled from Madison to Two Harbors, MN. We always utilized the MN 61 expressway to get from Duluth to Two Harbors (where the expressway ends). One time, we traveled all the way up 61 to the Canadian border at Grand Portage, though we didn't cross into Canada since we didn't have passports. We always stayed at the Superior Shores Resort just north of town. If anyone ever goes up that way, give the resort a try, and don't forget to stop at Betty's Pies a little further up 61.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 14, 2023, 09:26:15 PM
Several times over the years, me, my mother and my late stepfather traveled from Madison to Two Harbors, MN. We always utilized the MN 61 expressway to get from Duluth to Two Harbors (where the expressway ends). One time, we traveled all the way up 61 to the Canadian border at Grand Portage, though we didn't cross into Canada since we didn't have passports. We always stayed at the Superior Shores Resort just north of town. If anyone ever goes up that way, give the resort a try, and don't forget to stop at Betty's Pies a little further up 61.
Heck we used to stay in the cabins that were there before they tore them down for Superior Shores!!
I still think it's sad that you now have to book months in advance for North Shore lodging now that the area has been "discovered."
I worry that the state parks are being ruined by the crowds stomping over everything.
I've got the Betty's Pies cookbook, though, and I've made their french blueberry cream pie often.
Quote from: Papa Emeritus on August 14, 2023, 03:52:46 PM
On Friday, I drove from Thunder Bay to Duluth on 61.
There were many stretches where the pavement was in such bad shape that it was beyond the end of its lifespan, especially in the Grand Marais area.
I know it would be a nightmare to do a full reconstruction in this area because of problems with alternate routes, but MnDoT can't keep patching the road forever.
Has there been any discussion of a rebuild of 61?
I'm a little confused by this, since there has been quite a bit of work on 61 in Cook County and I don't see the same critical issues you do. Simultaneous projects rebuilt the road through Grand Marais and improved the previously rough section on Grand Portage, along with spot bridge replacements in other places.
To me, the worst part of the road right now is from about TH 1 to the Lake/Cook line. At least with that section, TH 1 and Lake CSAH 6 makes for a fairly reasonable detour.
While we're on the subject of TH 61, MnDOT dropped plans for a roundabout at 60th Ave East in Duluth after neighborhood pushback. Opposition stemmed from a house needing to be torn down and some nearby parkland being eaten up. For what it's worth, the woman who owns the house in question doesn't oppose roundabouts, such as the planned one at 40th Ave East, and suggested one should be built where Superior St meets the end of the TH 61 expressway.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/local/mndot-drops-controversial-plan-for-roundabout-on-duluths-london-road
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 17, 2023, 01:09:00 PM
While we're on the subject of TH 61, MnDOT dropped plans for a roundabout at 60th Ave East in Duluth after neighborhood pushback. Opposition stemmed from a house needing to be torn down and some nearby parkland being eaten up. For what it's worth, the woman who owns the house in question doesn't oppose roundabouts, such as the planned one at 40th Ave East, and suggested one should be built where Superior St meets the end of the TH 61 expressway.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/local/mndot-drops-controversial-plan-for-roundabout-on-duluths-london-road
One of those rare occasions where all parties are reasonable and aren't launching into hyperbolic arguments out of stupidity.
I agree that Superior St at Hwy 61 would be a more appropriate location for a roundabout. The only concern would be if a train blocks Hwy 61 for too long, though I suspect that will not likely happen very often if at all.
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 17, 2023, 02:40:40 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 17, 2023, 01:09:00 PM
While we're on the subject of TH 61, MnDOT dropped plans for a roundabout at 60th Ave East in Duluth after neighborhood pushback. Opposition stemmed from a house needing to be torn down and some nearby parkland being eaten up. For what it's worth, the woman who owns the house in question doesn't oppose roundabouts, such as the planned one at 40th Ave East, and suggested one should be built where Superior St meets the end of the TH 61 expressway.
https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/local/mndot-drops-controversial-plan-for-roundabout-on-duluths-london-road
I agree that Superior St at Hwy 61 would be a more appropriate location for a roundabout. The only concern would be if a train blocks Hwy 61 for too long, though I suspect that will not likely happen very often if at all.
The adjacent intersection of Highway 61 and the scenic drive would probably be a good spot for one also given heavy turning traffic and awkward sight lines.
The trains probably aren't much of an issue given the vast majority of rail traffic is from the North Shore Scenic Railroad which only operates in the summer/early fall. They lease out their trackage for winter storage when the scenic railroad is in the offseason, but that stuff is kept toward the Two Harbors end.
The groundbreaking for the last segment of 610 (which will be county maintained as Hennepin CSAH 610) west of I-94 in Maple Grove took place a few days ago, with construction beginning in October and going until 2025.
The map enclosed indicates some MnEOT-maintained ramp elements remain unfunded.
https://ccxmedia.org/news/highway-610-project-aims-to-ease-traffic-congestion-grow-jobs/
https://www.610extensionproject.com/
I had thought MN 610 was already completed. I assume this new extension will have signaled, at-grade intersections instead of interchanges.
Indeed:
(https://www.610extensionproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Map1_corrected.jpg)
Ever wonder about the history and purpose of the pedestrian bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8616466,-93.2744115,3a,75y,34.78h,122.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDIl4MFymSHFiX5UExrj1VQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DDIl4MFymSHFiX5UExrj1VQ%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D41.54657%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) over 494 just east of Nicollet? A local guy named Tyler Vigen did a fascinating deep dive (https://t.co/RNYZJmu5Fl).
Kurumi has started a new thread on the 494 pedestrian bridge: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33726.0.
I was browsing around the Burnsville area, and I noticed this wide spot in the median along Dakota County Road 42 E:
https://goo.gl/maps/5vhBZ176YAeqanea8
Looks like it was built this way in the 1960s. The eastbound roadway is the original, with the westbound roadway added in the 1960s.
For the most part, when it was built, the new westbound roadway followed alongside the original roadway with a "typical width" median (~25 to 30 feet), except just before Dakota County Road 11, where it widened substantially. It then narrowed down to a four lane road without any median east of County Road 11.
I'm curious if there is any explanation for why the road widened so much right through there? Perhaps a flyover was planned?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151794950_cfd0002e63_o.png)
Dakota County Road 42 E (https://flic.kr/p/2oYQQRL) by Jacob Root (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62537709@N03/), on Flickr
Quote from: jakeroot on August 29, 2023, 07:13:11 PM
I was browsing around the Burnsville area, and I noticed this wide spot in the median along Dakota County Road 42 E:
https://goo.gl/maps/5vhBZ176YAeqanea8
Looks like it was built this way in the 1960s. The eastbound roadway is the original, with the westbound roadway added in the 1960s.
For the most part, when it was built, the new westbound roadway followed alongside the original roadway with a "typical width" median (~25 to 30 feet), except just before Dakota County Road 11, where it widened substantially. It then narrowed down to a four lane road without any median east of County Road 11.
I'm curious if there is any explanation for why the road widened so much right through there? Perhaps a flyover was planned?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151794950_cfd0002e63_o.png)
Dakota County Road 42 E (https://flic.kr/p/2oYQQRL) by Jacob Root (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62537709@N03/), on Flickr
I do recall that most of County Road 42 is designated as part of the National Highway System, but I am not sure when it was given that designation and how it lines up with the construction that resulted in a wide median at this location.
4-laning there was about 30 years before the advent of the NHS system (which was in 1995).
I highly doubt an overpass or flyover was considered here. First, the only county in Minnesota that ever bothered to design (let alone build) county-route freeways was Hennepin. Second, this area was nothing but fields and trees until well into the 1970s.
Speculating here, but I feel there are two possible reasons for the wider median: either a higher design speed on the westbound lanes (which would require a more gradual curve than existed originally), or something to do with drainage, as the area occupied by the strip mall, liquor store, and Giuseppe's was a wetland at the time of 4-lane construction.
It's also worth noting that a ca. 1964 (around or shortly before time of construction) thoroughfare plan for the Twin Cities (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/53005614071/) did not envision CSAH 42 as a freeway or even an expressway.
Quote from: froggie on August 30, 2023, 09:29:11 AM
4-laning there was about 30 years before the advent of the NHS system (which was in 1995).
I highly doubt an overpass or flyover was considered here. First, the only county in Minnesota that ever bothered to design (let alone build) county-route freeways was Hennepin. Second, this area was nothing but fields and trees until well into the 1970s.
Speculating here, but I feel there are two possible reasons for the wider median: either a higher design speed on the westbound lanes (which would require a more gradual curve than existed originally), or something to do with drainage, as the area occupied by the strip mall, liquor store, and Giuseppe's was a wetland at the time of 4-lane construction.
It's also worth noting that a ca. 1964 (around or shortly before time of construction) thoroughfare plan for the Twin Cities (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajfroggie/53005614071/) did not envision CSAH 42 as a freeway or even an expressway.
The drainage theory makes sense to me. I used to work a 1/2 mile west of there on 42, and the median does have some depth to it, and I believe the westbound lanes are elevated a couple feet higher than eastbound.
Drainage was also my sneaking suspicion. The only reason I didn't just assume that and move on was because I don't recall special design treatments for water control being too common of an occurrence. Drainage design goes hand-in-hand with road engineering, of course, but normally roads are kept free of bulb-outs, unusual geometry, etc. because the drainage is designed around the ideal roadway geometry. I guess this is just one of those cases where they had to compromise slightly.
edit: I thought about the design speed as well. I dismissed this though because it seemed like the road quickly lost any sense of "high speed design" immediately to the east (of County Road 11), where it loses its median completely. Seemed odd to me they'd go to such great lengths to have a high speed curve, just to have the road narrow down on one end. But then, for all I know they always planned to have the divided highway continue east of County Road 11...funny, that never did happen.
Thanks for the replies!
Prep work for a three-year project to replace or rehabilitate several bridges on I-00 in Austin began Tuesday, partly funded from an INFRA grant. The 4th St NW interchange is concurrently planned to be replaced with a SPUI.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/i90-austin-bridge-replacements/index.html
(https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/i90-austin-bridge-replacements/images/bridgemap.png)
MnDOT posted on Facebook that the TH 301 project outside St. Cloud will end Friday, which also means the end of 301 as it will be turned over to the city of St. Cloud.
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/stc/h301/
Edina finally completed their triple roundabout project on Eden Avenue. The "double roundabout" directly on the east side of TH 100 next to the former Perkins site might be the first in Minnesota that I can think of where two are directly connected with each other like a pair of glasses.
The Minnesota 96 signs have now been replaced with Washington County 96 signs.
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 05, 2023, 06:31:36 PM
The Minnesota 96 signs have now been replaced with Washington County 96 signs.
Now it's just a matter of waiting for Ramsey County to take over their portion of Minnesota 96. Also Minnesota 120 since we're talking about that area.
Quote from: andarcondadont on October 05, 2023, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 05, 2023, 06:31:36 PM
The Minnesota 96 signs have now been replaced with Washington County 96 signs.
Now it's just a matter of waiting for Ramsey County to take over their portion of Minnesota 96. Also Minnesota 120 since we're talking about that area.
I could be wrong but I don't think the Ramsey portion of 96 is currently on the turnback list (neither is the remaining part of 244 where 96 now ends).
The TH 65 3rd Ave Bridge in Minneapolis is finally reopen. Here's a thread about some of the bridge's history.
https://twitter.com/vincempls/status/1718677778696941664
Of course, now that this is reopen, the Stone Arch is closing in stages for its own rehab.
Today's STrib has an article about how opposition in Brooklyn Center is building about plans to convert 252 to a freeway.
https://www.startribune.com/brooklyn-center-residents-officials-unhappy-with-mndots-plans-for-hwy-252/600317277/
Personally, I think 252 in Brooklyn Center is like 7 between Texas and 169 in St Louis Park: it's a divided road with stoplights, but people treat it as though it is a freeway. The result is that people drive unusually aggressively, which results in a high number of accidents. It would be nice if MnDoT was able to overcome local objections, and make 252 a freeway, because it would be much safer that way.
It's ridiculous MnDOT is being forced to undetake an EIS which will just come to the same conclusion the EAW did for 252, except at a significantly higher cost (consultants). NEPA needs to be overhauled to eliminate the FHWA's role and significantly streamline projects so they can't be held up in a bureaucratic quagmire like the 252 project has been (on a state level eliminating municipal consent would also be a good start)
Quote from: n0ax on November 05, 2023, 10:13:43 PM
NEPA needs to be overhauled to eliminate the FHWA's role and significantly streamline projects so they can't be held up in a bureaucratic quagmire like the 252 project has been (on a state level eliminating municipal consent would also be a good start)
Wut. Eliminate FHWA's role...that doesn't make any sense. Eliminating municipal consent sounds outright tyrannical.
If MN 252 were converted into a freeway, which intersections would get interchanges, and which intersections would get only grade-separations?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 07, 2023, 03:29:46 PM
If MN 252 were converted into a freeway, which intersections would get interchanges, and which intersections would get only grade-separations?
Look upthread. It's been mentioned and discussed before.
Drove the new freeway in Elk River today, most of the interchanges/bridges are complete except Main Street. I couldn't help but notice the narrow shoulders throughout the project. MnDOT seems to be constructing far more substandard projects as of the 2015 era onwards (Elk River/169 is a stark contrast to 101 which has certain bridges designed to obviously accommodate a third lane with 12 foot inner and outer shoulders). It seems that value engineering may be winning over adherence to standards?
Quote from: n0ax on November 09, 2023, 03:43:26 PM
Drove the new freeway in Elk River today, most of the interchanges/bridges are complete except Main Street. I couldn't help but notice the narrow shoulders throughout the project. MnDOT seems to be constructing far more substandard projects as of the 2015 era onwards (Elk River/169 is a stark contrast to 101 which has certain bridges designed to obviously accommodate a third lane with 12 foot inner and outer shoulders). It seems that value engineering may be winning over adherence to standards?
Skrimping on shoulders and lane widths is indeed part of the modern cost savings measure. They talked about that when they finished the final piece of the TH 60 widening in southern MN having 11-foot left lanes and minimal shoulder.
I do recall the TH 60 expansion heavily utilizing value engineering, but it seemed logical for a rural expressway that saw 5-7K AADT at most. It seems fundamentally unsafe to design an urban freeway that sees 45K AADT with 8 foot outer shoulders and 4 foot inner shoulders (or none at all throughout a significant chunk of the project where there are auxiliary lanes) especially when right of way is not constrained.
252 should have begun as a freeway. MN does this all the time.
I know the US 169 and MN 100 corridors once had at-grade intersections that were converted into grade-separations and interchanges over time. I believe that also occurred on other non-Interstate freeways in the Twin Cities Metropolitan Area.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 11, 2023, 08:51:38 PM
I know the US 169 and MN 100 corridors once had at-grade intersections that were converted into grade-separations and interchanges over time. I believe that also occurred on other non-Interstate freeways in the Twin Cities Metropolitan Area.
Correct. Virtually every other freeway/highway with interchanges has been converted in piecemeal fashion, and there are plenty of notable gaps with signals, e.g. MN 7 at Texas Ave and Blake Rd; MN 36 at Century Ave; and US 10/61 at Burns Ave, Warner Rd, and Lower Afton Rd.
Ugh. I drove up through the US 169 work zone where they just finished with the Rockford Rd interchange, and the new advance sign for Bass Lake Road at 49th Ave was stylized "LaKe".
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 17, 2023, 03:35:50 PM
Ugh. I drove up through the US 169 work zone where they just finished with the Rockford Rd interchange, and the new advance sign for Bass Lake Road at 49th Ave was stylized "LaKe".
I wonder how many weeks will go by before MnDOT corrects that, if at all.
Quote from: andarcondadont on November 19, 2023, 08:54:44 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 17, 2023, 03:35:50 PM
Ugh. I drove up through the US 169 work zone where they just finished with the Rockford Rd interchange, and the new advance sign for Bass Lake Road at 49th Ave was stylized "LaKe".
I wonder how many weeks will go by before MnDOT corrects that, if at all.
To their credit they did patch the lower-case "North" that appeared on the temporary WB Crosstown exit sign to TH 100 northbound.
The last piece of US 14 bypassing Courtland is now open, and the final link in the New Ulm-Rochester four-laning is complete.
https://twitter.com/GovTimWalz/status/1727020868679909631
Apparently MN 44 has a business loop through Caledonia? I thought the only state highway business loops were in Brainerd and Willmar.
(https://i.imgur.com/V9uRGqx.jpg)
I've heard suggesitons the city planted those on their own. Are they actually still standing? I had seen photos but I didn't see any the last time I was in Caledonia when I looked for them.
Yep, that picture was from yesterday. I didn't remember seeing them when I drove through about three years ago.
The only business routes that are on the state highway system are Brainerd and East Grand Forks. All others (including Willmar*) are purely local endeavors.
* A small part of the north end of the Willmar business route is technically on MnDOT's system, but it's officially part of now-unsigned MN 294.
Fiurther investigation raises even more questions for me - those BUS 44 signs *look* quite old, but only went up sometime after 2012. I can't find exactly what year the 44/76 "bypass" opened; it was at minimum prior to 1980.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 29, 2023, 11:45:05 PM
Fiurther investigation raises even more questions for me - those BUS 44 signs *look* quite old, but only went up sometime after 2012. I can't find exactly what year the 44/76 "bypass" opened; it was at minimum prior to 1980.
It was before 1952, per Historic Aerials.
Quote from: WisJohn on November 30, 2023, 11:01:19 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 29, 2023, 11:45:05 PM
Fiurther investigation raises even more questions for me - those BUS 44 signs *look* quite old, but only went up sometime after 2012. I can't find exactly what year the 44/76 "bypass" opened; it was at minimum prior to 1980.
It was before 1952, per Historic Aerials.
Graded in 1949, concrete in 1950 per MnDOT project logs.
There's a resolution (https://stpaul.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12489990&GUID=71DBE4AE-6486-4C57-9ECF-914DE6689F80) that passed the St. Paul Heritage Preservation Commission to officially restore the Rondo Ave name along Concordia Ave from Griggs to Kellogg. The section of Concordia Ave west of Griggs would remain Concordia. As I understand the process, the full City Council will hold hearings on it before deciding to pass it later this month.
Concordia University is in favor (https://stpaul.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12490105&GUID=72FFD094-CE5C-4AF6-A703-0C8D91E44F06) of the move. Interestingly enough, the name Concordia was first proposed by Public Works Commissioner Milton Rosen and approved in January of 1964, though the College (at the time) was in support of the idea. It wasn't until about 10-12 years ago that Concordia moved its official mailing address to Concordia Ave.; previously, the school's address was on Syndicate St.
Was Concordia Ave. west of N. Griggs St. named Rondo Ave. as well? Or was that segment always Concordia Ave.? Google Maps also lists Concordia Ave as Old Rondo Ave. between Victoria St. and Dale St. N.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 01, 2023, 03:31:32 PM
Was Concordia Ave. west of N. Griggs St. named Rondo Ave. as well? Or was that segment always Concordia Ave.? Google Maps also lists Concordia Ave as Old Rondo Ave. between Victoria St. and Dale St. N.
No. Before 94 came, St. Anthony Ave (which today is the frontage road to 94 on the north side of the area) angled southwest-northeast and Rondo ended westbound approximately at St. Anthony and Dunlap Ave just west of Lexington Parkway, and St. Anthony continued west.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 01, 2023, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 01, 2023, 03:31:32 PM
Was Concordia Ave. west of N. Griggs St. named Rondo Ave. as well? Or was that segment always Concordia Ave.? Google Maps also lists Concordia Ave as Old Rondo Ave. between Victoria St. and Dale St. N.
No. Before 94 came, St. Anthony Ave (which today is the frontage road to 94 on the north side of the area) angled southwest-northeast and Rondo ended westbound approximately at St. Anthony and Dunlap Ave just west of Lexington Parkway, and St. Anthony continued west.
Not 100% accurate. Per historic aerial imagery (https://geo.lib.umn.edu/ramsey_county/y1953/WO-4M-12.jpg), Griggs/St. Anthony was the endpoint of Rondo at the NE corner of the Concordia campus.
Concordia Ave. west of Hamline Ave. used to be Roblyn Ave. Concordia east of Hamline to Griggs was St. Anthony.
A couple neat sidenotes about that aerial image:
- You can make out the streetcar platforms in the median along University.
- It shows how industrial the St Paul Midway used to be...a key factor in then-MHD's decision to route I-94 along St Anthony Ave instead of parallel to the Great Northern rail mainline (now BNSF's Midway Subdivision) as George Herrold (St Paul's city planner of the time) proposed.
This is a new one for me. MnDOT and Scott County have plans for an interchange at US 169 and CR 59 (https://www.scottcountymn.gov/2172/TH-169-CH-59-Interchange), about 2 miles southwest of Jordan. Construction next year. The plan is for a folded-diamond interchange.
Quote from: froggie on December 10, 2023, 01:06:41 AM
This is a new one for me. MnDOT and Scott County have plans for an interchange at US 169 and CR 59 (https://www.scottcountymn.gov/2172/TH-169-CH-59-Interchange), about 2 miles southwest of Jordan. Construction next year. The plan is for a folded-diamond interchange.
Yeah, I was also surprised to see that
(https://i.imgur.com/tGsWp25.jpg)
You've seen this map, right?
Not before this, no.
Nice to see a few more TH 13 interchanges in the plan.
Quote from: bschultzy on December 01, 2023, 10:03:13 AM
There's a resolution (https://stpaul.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12489990&GUID=71DBE4AE-6486-4C57-9ECF-914DE6689F80) that passed the St. Paul Heritage Preservation Commission to officially restore the Rondo Ave name along Concordia Ave from Griggs to Kellogg. The section of Concordia Ave west of Griggs would remain Concordia. As I understand the process, the full City Council will hold hearings on it before deciding to pass it later this month.
Concordia University is in favor (https://stpaul.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12490105&GUID=72FFD094-CE5C-4AF6-A703-0C8D91E44F06) of the move. Interestingly enough, the name Concordia was first proposed by Public Works Commissioner Milton Rosen and approved in January of 1964, though the College (at the time) was in support of the idea. It wasn't until about 10-12 years ago that Concordia moved its official mailing address to Concordia Ave.; previously, the school's address was on Syndicate St.
Yesterday, the St. Paul City Council voted to restore (https://www.twincities.com/2023/12/13/st-pauls-rondo-avenue-to-return-in-stages/) the name of Rondo Ave. The renaming will take place in two stages: first, Concordia will become Rondo from Griggs east to Mackubin. Then, when the next council is in place, the process will restart with the Heritage Preservation Commission and look to rename St. Anthony to Rondo from Western to Rice. It's not yet known if the Concordia name will remain from Mackubin east to Kellogg.
Link repaired. --J N Winkler
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2023, 10:53:48 PM
Nice to see a few more TH 13 interchanges in the plan.
I notice an expansion of the US 169 river bridge is in the long-term plans, but I think the problem is more on the Hennepin County side. The road really needs to be 6-laned from 494 to the river.
Maybe Scott County could pay for that after they're done paying for the Chowen Ave interchange in Dakota County.
Quote from: Mdcastle on December 15, 2023, 01:28:30 PM
Maybe Scott County could pay for that after they're done paying for the Chowen Ave interchange in Dakota County.
As if the backups from the Chowen Avenue light don't affect Scott County residents, too? I'm sure there's no shortage of people who think this is a valuable use of taxpayer money...
An interesting thing in Dakota County is that CSAH 9 is now signed on 175th Street at Cedar Avenue, but it is still signed on Dodd Boulevard at Pilot Knob Road. The project website says work is still being done on Dodd until mid-spring, so the remaining signage will probably change when that is completed. It would have been a better idea to leave CSAH 9 unsigned in this area in the meantime.
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 23, 2023, 08:56:45 PM
An interesting thing in Dakota County is that CSAH 9 is now signed on 175th Street at Cedar Avenue, but it is still signed on Dodd Boulevard at Pilot Knob Road. The project website says work is still being done on Dodd until mid-spring, so the remaining signage will probably change when that is completed. It would have been a better idea to leave CSAH 9 unsigned in this area in the meantime.
**179th Street. My question is: will the CSAH 9 designation continue along 179th Street east of Cedar Avenue? I ask because all the county routes in Dakota County seem to follow a grid numbering scheme and having CSAH 9 transition to a west-east route would break that convention.
Quote from: andarcondadont on December 27, 2023, 09:37:21 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 23, 2023, 08:56:45 PM
An interesting thing in Dakota County is that CSAH 9 is now signed on 175th Street at Cedar Avenue, but it is still signed on Dodd Boulevard at Pilot Knob Road. The project website says work is still being done on Dodd until mid-spring, so the remaining signage will probably change when that is completed. It would have been a better idea to leave CSAH 9 unsigned in this area in the meantime.
**179th Street. My question is: will the CSAH 9 designation continue along 179th Street east of Cedar Avenue? I ask because all the county routes in Dakota County seem to follow a grid numbering scheme and having CSAH 9 transition to a west-east route would break that convention.
It does seem that way since they have signage in both directions from Cedar (along with switching to pentagon signage rather than the white square). I haven't read what the ultimate plan is going to be yet, but the road dead ends shortly after crossing Pilot Knob. Maybe this plan is a ruse for Dakota County to take back control of 170th Street near Whitetail Woods.
It looks like value engineering is making the upcoming 169/282 interchange worse, the SB 169 to 282/CH 9 ramp originally intended to meet the planned roundabout will be replaced with a buttonhook with far less deceleration distance (only 600 feet). For a very marginal decrease in cost I fail to understand how compromising this design element is beneficial to anyone? It's like we have traveled back in time with substandard crap interchanges?
A weird thing in Blue Earth County that recently happened in conjunction with closing the CSAH 27 left turn lane in Eagle Lake: CSAH 17 between TH 60 and CSAH 27 has been redesigned as CSAH or CR 170 (not sure if it's still receiving state aid), so there are now two disconnected sections of CSAH 17.
Over the weekend, a 5 year old girl was fatally injured on 36 after the car she was a passenger in stalled out, then was rear ended at highway speeds.
Some people commenting on the Strib article about the crash say what all of us know: 36 should have been upgraded to a freeway from 694 to the St Croix River. People treat 36 as though it's a freeway, then they have to quickly slow down when there is a traffic signal, or a stalled vehicle....and not everyone is able to stop in time.
Although upgrading 36 to a freeway wouldn't have prevented this crash, it would have prevented other crashes on this road.
The same problem exists on 7 in St Louis Park; it's a freeway from 100 to Texas, but because there's a hill between the Louisiana interchange and Texas, people coming over the top of the hill have to quickly slow down if the light is red at Texas and / or if there is a traffic backup in the Knollwood area.
Here's a link to the article; may this innocent little girl RIP. I can't imagine the anguish her family is feeling.....
https://www.startribune.com/lake-elmo-crash-leaves-5-year-old-with-life-threatening-injuries/600337437/
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 23, 2024, 01:42:23 AM
A weird thing in Blue Earth County that recently happened in conjunction with closing the CSAH 27 left turn lane in Eagle Lake: CSAH 17 between TH 60 and CSAH 27 has been redesigned as CSAH or CR 170 (not sure if it's still receiving state aid), so there are now two disconnected sections of CSAH 17.
MnDOT's EMMA shows it as CR 170.
Got out to the new TH 167 today.
-The mileposts were recalibrated from former TH 67, and are marked backwards with Mile 0 being at the entrance to Upper Sioux Agency State Park, beyond which the road has a hard closure.
-With the implemented elimination of Upper Sioux Agency State Park, there will be no reason for this to remain a state highway long-term.
So many road projects were being talked about when I moved from MN to TX in 2006 that still haven't been completed. MN 24 Clearwater bridge 94/10 connection. Twin cities turnbacks. 316 becomes 61. Are they ever happening?
Quote from: texaskdog on February 02, 2024, 08:22:24 PM
So many road projects were being talked about when I moved from MN to TX in 2006 that still haven't been completed. MN 24 Clearwater bridge 94/10 connection. Twin cities turnbacks. 316 becomes 61. Are they ever happening?
Unfortunately, I doubt TH 316 will ever become 61 proper. They constructed a roundabout at the southern intersection instead of realigning the roadway and subsequently four-laning it like they should have done. They appear to have completely given up on doing the right thing on TH 55 west of Hastings, too, since the most recent plans I've seen involve a lame transitional center passing lane and a roundabout at CSAH 42/CSAH 85. This really should all be four-laned with an exit to CSAH 42/85, a roundabout would just be accident city with the amount of traffic there.
The city of Rosemount also allowed some commercial development too close to the US 52/CSAH 42 interchange, which shouldn't have happened since that's the final nail in the coffin for what actually needs to be done there.
Quote from: bschultzy on December 14, 2023, 09:25:41 AM
Quote from: bschultzy on December 01, 2023, 10:03:13 AM
There's a resolution (https://stpaul.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12489990&GUID=71DBE4AE-6486-4C57-9ECF-914DE6689F80) that passed the St. Paul Heritage Preservation Commission to officially restore the Rondo Ave name along Concordia Ave from Griggs to Kellogg. The section of Concordia Ave west of Griggs would remain Concordia. As I understand the process, the full City Council will hold hearings on it before deciding to pass it later this month.
Concordia University is in favor (https://stpaul.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12490105&GUID=72FFD094-CE5C-4AF6-A703-0C8D91E44F06) of the move. Interestingly enough, the name Concordia was first proposed by Public Works Commissioner Milton Rosen and approved in January of 1964, though the College (at the time) was in support of the idea. It wasn't until about 10-12 years ago that Concordia moved its official mailing address to Concordia Ave.; previously, the school's address was on Syndicate St.
Yesterday, the St. Paul City Council voted to restore (https://www.twincities.com/2023/12/13/st-pauls-rondo-avenue-to-return-in-stages/) the name of Rondo Ave. The renaming will take place in two stages: first, Concordia will become Rondo from Griggs east to Mackubin. Then, when the next council is in place, the process will restart with the Heritage Preservation Commission and look to rename St. Anthony to Rondo from Western to Rice. It's not yet known if the Concordia name will remain from Mackubin east to Kellogg.
The city council has approved the second phase of renaming St. Anthony Avenue between Rice and Western.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2024/02/08/rondo-avenue-name-restored-by-st-paul-city-council
The city council has approved the second phase of renaming St. Anthony Avenue between Rice and Western.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2024/02/08/rondo-avenue-name-restored-by-st-paul-city-council
[/quote]
This is great news! I drove through the Dale/Rondo intersection a few weeks ago and it's still signed Concordia, and Google Maps hasn't received an update yet either. Hopefully these changes are implemented sooner rather than later.
Duluth will likely make changes to the section of SKyline Parkway underneath Enger Tower after two recent deaths in separate incidents. Some residents want cars banned frrom the stretch near the tower but the city looks like it will go to a less harsh approach of possibly upgrading stop signs and adding electronic speed displays.
https://www.fox21online.com/2024/02/28/mayor-reinert-proposes-options-to-w-skyline-parkway-after-2-fatalities/
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 29, 2024, 10:19:21 PM
Duluth will likely make changes to the section of SKyline Parkway underneath Enger Tower after two recent deaths in separate incidents. Some residents want cars banned frrom the stretch near the tower but the city looks like it will go to a less harsh approach of possibly upgrading stop signs and adding electronic speed displays.
https://www.fox21online.com/2024/02/28/mayor-reinert-proposes-options-to-w-skyline-parkway-after-2-fatalities/
Glad to see that the response is measured from the list at the bottom of the page.
Due to the area, I'm curious to see if alcohol was a factor in the roll-off fatality.
A look at some of the US 53 Can of Worms work in the Lincoln Park neighborhood of Duluth, with a closeup of the sign bridge. I think it would have looked better to just put separate "SIGNAL AHEAD" banners over the left two signs rather than have one sign awkwardly straddle them.
(https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/430023073_2697654630398569_8147550875279532_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=CXvFDje3IugAX9pMP8T&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAbyHfVJicdEsZdXiTU--ncXJuLzELeLrG54bC96PI5Vw&oe=65EFAD5B)
(https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/431816425_2697654603731905_8575342838161251112_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=E3N47eeqT1kAX-XfkIe&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDm_jT028vsOJTqsQJQDG9ZfN7StXkhk1c7uwwe-DPmkg&oe=65EFF71E)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk_aLhs9RdM
A consultant video I was just introduced to about the US 10/169 project in Ramsey (lane closures begin Monday). The project will build frontage roads and two interchanges at CSAH 57/Sunfish Lake Blvd and CSAH 56/Ramsey Blvd. Both interchanges will nominally be of a dumbbell design (diamond with roundabouts). The interesting thing I noted at both interchanges is the roundabouts on the north side of 10/169 will include the frontage road and the off-ramp, while the westbound on-ramp is offset from the roundabout and basically hugs the end of the bridge over the mainline.
The video also confirms what I wasn't sure on before during preliminary design: the two existing businesses between 10/169 and the railroad, and between the Ramsey Transit Station and CSAH 83/Armstrong Blvd will indeed be removed, which means this project will extend the freeway section on 10/169 past Armstrong Blvd.
MnDOT released alternatives for a planned downsizing of TH 55/Olson Memorial in north Minneapolis. The current four-to-six-lane boulevard has become a heavy target of urbanists in recent years over safety issues as well as being routed through minority neighborhoods when it was constructed in the 1930s/1940s. As much of the traffic the route carried has long shifted to I-394, there is probably little harm in downsizing it.
One lane had already been repurposed for bikes in recent years in spots.
https://sahanjournal.com/climate-environment/mndot-designs-olson-memorial-highway-minneapolis/
^ It's not just the routing along former 6th Ave. There were several properties later razed razed in the vicinity of Penn Ave for construction of an interchange that never happened.
So how's it going to work out when close to 30,000 vehicles a day try to use a single lane?
It's not that high. More like 20K...and that's only if volumes have actually recovered to pre-Covid levels (latest data I could find was 2021, and 15K). A number of local roads that function with such. And at higher driveway frequencies.
Borderline to be fair, and I'd prefer 4 lanes. But not as dire as you're making it out to be.
I'm not on Olson much but it always seems sleepy.
Should at least make Minneapolis or Hennepin County take the former road if it's no longer going to be designed for regional mobility.
^ Pretty sure MnDOT already has it as a turnback candidate.
Quote from: froggie on March 18, 2024, 09:55:18 PM
^ Pretty sure MnDOT already has it as a turnback candidate.
What would happen to TH 55? Would it become discontinuous? Or be rerouted onto I-394 and 94?
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on March 19, 2024, 05:39:53 AM
Quote from: froggie on March 18, 2024, 09:55:18 PM
^ Pretty sure MnDOT already has it as a turnback candidate.
What would happen to TH 55? Would it become discontinuous? Or be rerouted onto I-394 and 94?
It would make sense if it was routed along 100->394->94.
Looks like TH 123 is finally going to be turned back in August. https://www.house.mn.gov/sessiondaily/Story/18216
Quote from: Molandfreak on March 30, 2024, 10:54:06 PMLooks like TH 123 is finally going to be turned back in August. https://www.house.mn.gov/sessiondaily/Story/18216
Quote from: HF 34366 Route No. 185.
Revises a statutorily designated trunk highway to remove Trunk Highway 123 in and
near Sandstone, along with adjusting the statutory route. The revision is subject to an
agreement with Pine County to transfer jurisdiction of the road.
7 Route No. 186.
Makes conforming changes for the Trunk Highway 123 turnback, to remove a
segment that is being added to a different statutorily designated route.
8 Route No. 341.
Makes conforming changes for the Trunk Highway 123 turnback, to establish a new
statutorily designated trunk highway within Sandstone
This sounds like while they're going to get rid of 123 as we knew it, the state is also going to be taking over a different piece of road in Sandstone. I wonder if 123 just gets "realigned" or "reassigned". I don't know if their plan is to put the TH 23 "business loop" currently made up by 123 and Pine County 64 as a state route, but it would be a setback to the eventual plan to put 23 onto I-35 between Exits 191 and 195.
Or is this actually going to be them moving 23 off of its current route through Sandstone, but just giving it a new number?
https://www.house.mn.gov/hrd/bs/93/HF3436.pdf
Here's what the full bill language says for the three Legislative Routes in question (edited to show only the "final version"):
Route No. 185 Beginning at a point on Route No. 1 and Route No. 390, thence extending in a northeasterly direction to a point on Route No. 103 as herein established in Duluth.
Route No. 186. Beginning at a point on Route No. 110 as herein established, thence extending in an easterly direction to a point on Route No. 1 and Route No. 390; affording Isle and Finlayson a reasonable means of communication each with the other and other places within the state.
Route No. 341. Beginning at a point on Route No. 1 at Sandstone, thence extending in a generally easterly direction to a point at or near the east bank of the Kettle River.
-----------
It is hard to say if MnDOT is relocating Constitutional Route 1 onto I-35 through here. Technically, I-35 is not within the Sandstone city limits...while the city has annexed land on the west side of 35, it is discontinuous from the rest of the city (this per MnDOT's EMMA mapping application). A Constitutional Route realignment would not require legislation, as long as the routes Constitutional parameters are still met.
My interpretation: if C.R. 1 does indeed get moved to I-35, then it's a safe bet that MN 23 will be moved onto I-35 as well. In this scenario, MN 18 would be extended east to Exit 195 and MN 123 would both be extended and truncated. The extension would be along the short stretch of 23 between 123 and Exit 191. The north(east) end of 123 would be truncated to the east end of the Kettle River bridge, or possibly to CSAH 29 (the access road to the Federal prison). The legislation doesn't make clear the endpoint, but both are logical assumptions given the language.
If C.R. 1 does NOT get moved onto I-35, then MN 23 and MN 18 would remain as-is and only the truncation of MN 123 (as described above) would occur.
The 2024 construction roundup.
New projects:
-Reconstruction of the I-90/US 52 interchange near Rochester, including a new flyover from SB 52 to EB 90, the current interchange's problematic movement.
-I-90 bridge replacements in the Austin area.
-Filling the TH 23 "south gap" of the 4-lane expressway between Paynesville and New London
-Grade separation of railroad on US 10/75 in Moorhead
-I-35 bridge replacements in the Hinckley area.
-Filling of I-94 six-lane gap between Albertville and Monticello
-New interchanges on US 169 in Scott County at TH 282 and CSAH 59
-Filling of four-lane gap on US 212 between Cologne and NYA
-Westward extension of road from I-94/TH 610 interchange to connect to Hennepin CSAH 30
-Stone Arch Bridge rehabilitation
Ongoing:
-I-35/535/US 53 Can of Worms rebuild in Duluth
-I-35W/494 interchange in Bloomington, including ongoing work on a new turbine ramp from NB 35W to WB 494
-Converting the US 10/TH 23 interchange in St. Cloud from a cloverleaf to a folded diamond
-US 169 freeway conversion in Elk River (the new Main St. interchange)
https://dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 09, 2024, 03:53:36 PMNew projects:
-Westward extension of road from I-94/TH 610 interchange to connect to Hennepin CSAH 30
https://dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html
I'm still a little bit unclear about what exactly is included in this project. According to the project webpage (https://www.610extensionproject.com/), the direct connections between 610 and 94 are all "unfunded", with the exception of the EB 610 thru movement onto the existing 610. If the WB 610 connection/flyover is unfunded, will the new "funded" westbound alignment between Lawndale Lane and the future EB 94 ramp sit unused until there is funding to complete the connection? Will there be some sort of temporary signal setup or two-way traffic along the future EB 610 connection to tie both WB and EB thru traffic together in the meantime? Maybe I'm just missing something and the graphic on the first page is just out of date, because there are other places on the website that make it seem like the unfunded sections are going to be constructed shortly as well.
Quote from: EpicRoadways on April 09, 2024, 09:48:45 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 09, 2024, 03:53:36 PMNew projects:
-Westward extension of road from I-94/TH 610 interchange to connect to Hennepin CSAH 30
https://dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html
I'm still a little bit unclear about what exactly is included in this project. According to the project webpage (https://www.610extensionproject.com/), the direct connections between 610 and 94 are all "unfunded", with the exception of the EB 610 thru movement onto the existing 610. If the WB 610 connection/flyover is unfunded, will the new "funded" westbound alignment between Lawndale Lane and the future EB 94 ramp sit unused until there is funding to complete the connection? Will there be some sort of temporary signal setup or two-way traffic along the future EB 610 connection to tie both WB and EB thru traffic together in the meantime? Maybe I'm just missing something and the graphic on the first page is just out of date, because there are other places on the website that make it seem like the unfunded sections are going to be constructed shortly as well.
An alert box at the top of the page now details the start of construction on the new bridge over I-94. With that in mind, I think it would be fair to assume that the connection is now funded.
Quote from: andarcondadont on April 11, 2024, 01:40:51 AMQuote from: EpicRoadways on April 09, 2024, 09:48:45 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 09, 2024, 03:53:36 PMNew projects:
-Westward extension of road from I-94/TH 610 interchange to connect to Hennepin CSAH 30
https://dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html
I'm still a little bit unclear about what exactly is included in this project. According to the project webpage (https://www.610extensionproject.com/), the direct connections between 610 and 94 are all "unfunded", with the exception of the EB 610 thru movement onto the existing 610. If the WB 610 connection/flyover is unfunded, will the new "funded" westbound alignment between Lawndale Lane and the future EB 94 ramp sit unused until there is funding to complete the connection? Will there be some sort of temporary signal setup or two-way traffic along the future EB 610 connection to tie both WB and EB thru traffic together in the meantime? Maybe I'm just missing something and the graphic on the first page is just out of date, because there are other places on the website that make it seem like the unfunded sections are going to be constructed shortly as well.
An alert box at the top of the page now details the start of construction on the new bridge over I-94. With that in mind, I think it would be fair to assume that the connection is now funded.
Some of it is, yes. The question mark is whether the connection from westbound 610 (and, by association, the Maple Grove Pkwy on-ramp) to the new roadway is included in the construction. I did a dive the other day and was unable to find an answer.
Quote from: froggie on April 11, 2024, 06:51:19 AMQuote from: andarcondadont on April 11, 2024, 01:40:51 AMQuote from: EpicRoadways on April 09, 2024, 09:48:45 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 09, 2024, 03:53:36 PMNew projects:
-Westward extension of road from I-94/TH 610 interchange to connect to Hennepin CSAH 30
https://dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html
I'm still a little bit unclear about what exactly is included in this project. According to the project webpage (https://www.610extensionproject.com/), the direct connections between 610 and 94 are all "unfunded", with the exception of the EB 610 thru movement onto the existing 610. If the WB 610 connection/flyover is unfunded, will the new "funded" westbound alignment between Lawndale Lane and the future EB 94 ramp sit unused until there is funding to complete the connection? Will there be some sort of temporary signal setup or two-way traffic along the future EB 610 connection to tie both WB and EB thru traffic together in the meantime? Maybe I'm just missing something and the graphic on the first page is just out of date, because there are other places on the website that make it seem like the unfunded sections are going to be constructed shortly as well.
An alert box at the top of the page now details the start of construction on the new bridge over I-94. With that in mind, I think it would be fair to assume that the connection is now funded.
Some of it is, yes. The question mark is whether the connection from westbound 610 (and, by association, the Maple Grove Pkwy on-ramp) to the new roadway is included in the construction. I did a dive the other day and was unable to find an answer.
The MnDOT staff approved layout on the website shows everything including the "unfunded" portions, so I assume they got funding for it: https://www.610extensionproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/220418_12510_loa1_SIGNED.pdf (https://www.610extensionproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/220418_12510_loa1_SIGNED.pdf)
^ That staff-approved layout also dates to when other maps on the project website were differentiating between "city led project" and "unfunded" sections. Would like to see something more concrete. I've sent an email asking for clarification.
I received a response from the project manager. And he confirmed that, yes indeed, the construction will include the connections from WB 610. So everything that's shown in yellow and red on the main map on the project website.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 09, 2024, 03:53:36 PMThe 2024 construction roundup.
Ongoing:
-I-35/535/US 53 Can of Worms rebuild in Duluth
-I-35W/494 interchange in Bloomington, including ongoing work on a new turbine ramp from NB 35W to WB 494
-Converting the US 10/TH 23 interchange in St. Cloud from a cloverleaf to a folded diamond
-US 169 freeway conversion in Elk River (the new Main St. interchange)
https://dot.state.mn.us/construction/index.html
I drove through the 35W/494 interchange about 10 days ago, and the piers, grading, and even some beams were in place for the new turbine ramp.
Because there doesn't seem to be much else in the news, the big story of the week is MnDOT misspelling Ayd Mill Road on a sign replacement on I-35E in St. Paul.
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/local-news/mndot-misspells-ayd-mill-road-exit-sign/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_KSTP-TV&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0wAFe_FbsgrRFVUOmf3sKwpY7q-IUIPKK07qcpPRpLXMKyQQBPwPc1DyA_aem_AapjpaN03W0l-fDl4TReVbZNb46zWH68o4eR_ToV9nHZ7mBemKM56ZdIn6fZa1PmJPN7z3-D2pLCKSllj_FGK5OP
The second sign has the correct spelling, or was only the first sign replaced?
Both were originally replaced. It wasn't until sign replacements the past few years that MnDOT started doing right-justified exit tabs.
The sign has already been patched.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2024/04/23/ady-ayd-mill-road-erroneous-highway-sign-st-paul-gets-temporary-fix