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Author Topic: I-49 Coming to Missouri  (Read 430045 times)

US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #1200 on: May 16, 2022, 06:57:44 PM »

I have driven the new Bella Vista Bypass a number of times now (6 times each way), and as a roadgeek, I can't get over the reduced standards at the Missouri section. The narrow inner median (four foot I believe from the preliminary layout I have downloaded) annoys me to no end. It reminds me of the older standard "urban" freeways in large metropolitan areas, but stranded in the middle of bum nowhere. It's a jarring combination
Looking at the newly posted Street View of this segment, it looks like it goes through significantly rough terrain with a lot of mountain cuts to make room for the freeway. Itís reasonable to have a reduced section in mountainous areas to save costs.

This isnít a freeway in the middle of an open field where they can just have a 60-70 foot median and no to little added expense.
..

That's part of the reason the last few miles took so long: unforgiving terrain that was going to take big bucks to deal with.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #1201 on: May 16, 2022, 07:24:30 PM »

Remember, a court order prevents the E. Gregory Blvd, E. 59th St., and the E. 55th St. intersections along US 71 from being converted into grade-separations or interchanges (thus keeping the Interstate 49 designation from continuing north of Interstate 435). Until the court order is lifted (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that), the signaled intersections will remain.
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #1202 on: May 16, 2022, 07:43:57 PM »

Remember, a court order prevents the E. Gregory Blvd, E. 59th St., and the E. 55th St. intersections along US 71 from being converted into grade-separations or interchanges (thus keeping the Interstate 49 designation from continuing north of Interstate 435). Until the court order is lifted (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that), the signaled intersections will remain.

Wait about 50 years :p
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edwaleni

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #1203 on: May 17, 2022, 04:57:53 PM »

Remember, a court order prevents the E. Gregory Blvd, E. 59th St., and the E. 55th St. intersections along US 71 from being converted into grade-separations or interchanges (thus keeping the Interstate 49 designation from continuing north of Interstate 435). Until the court order is lifted (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that), the signaled intersections will remain.

But there is nothing to stop a proposal being brought to the community for discussion. If they like the new park space, then the court order can be reversed.

The court order was placed because MoDOT didn't want to spend the money back then to remediate it to their requirements. (maintain their community standards)

If a means of lower cost is available for MoDOT and it provides or enhances the community experience and avoids the issues raised before, then they should at least try.

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mvak36

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #1204 on: May 19, 2022, 11:36:27 AM »

I'm surprised the thread title hasn't been updated by now, since I-49 has fully arrived in MO (with the possible future exception of the Bruce Watkins at-grades being converted in Kansas City)

Should be quite a while before/if that occurs.
Does anyone know the reason why US 71 in KC was not built to a full freeway?

MoDOT lost a court case brought by local residents that didn't want the freeway. Should be fairly well documented if you search for Bruce Watkins Drive.

Or putting it in other words, what MoDOT would have had to spend to remediate the residents concerns would have made the road uneconomic.

MoDOT could have $999 trillion to spend and it wouldn't make a difference. They're legally unable to build a freeway by court order.
Not to nitpick or anything, but because of that, I-49 will end at I-470 forever.

Never say 'Never'.  In a few decades, anyone with any direct memories of what happened back them will be gone and generations yet to come will look at the situation and start asking serious questions....

Mike

I went to the public meeting today here in KC for the High Priority Unfunded Needs. I spoke with a MODOT representative about the Bruce R. Watkins project and they said the city came to them asking for improvements for pedestrians (bridge over the highway, etc.,). They did say that if the court order was ever removed and the city ever asked them to build a freeway for that section, they would be more than happy to oblige :).

Most interesting/entertaining part of the meeting was some guy was there that wasn't happy about I-49 being only two lanes in northern Cass County (155th St to North Cass Parkway). He was not happy that it was in Tier 3 and nearly blew a gasket when they said the Tier 3 projects would take about 10 years before they get to construction and was saying that his project was more deserving than the Bruce Watkins one (even though they were both in the same Tier 3). MODOT had a board up saying that the estimated cost would be 21 million, but the guy didn't know about that and said that he will get a contractor to do estimates :-D.

Looks like the I-49 project in Cass County made the Draft STIP with an award date of 2024 (Project number KU0028). But it is shaded light gray in their document so if the gas tax increase that got passed last year (SB262) gets repealed, this project might get delayed.
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mrsman

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #1205 on: September 05, 2022, 07:21:28 PM »

Remember, a court order prevents the E. Gregory Blvd, E. 59th St., and the E. 55th St. intersections along US 71 from being converted into grade-separations or interchanges (thus keeping the Interstate 49 designation from continuing north of Interstate 435). Until the court order is lifted (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that), the signaled intersections will remain.

But there is nothing to stop a proposal being brought to the community for discussion. If they like the new park space, then the court order can be reversed.

The court order was placed because MoDOT didn't want to spend the money back then to remediate it to their requirements. (maintain their community standards)

If a means of lower cost is available for MoDOT and it provides or enhances the community experience and avoids the issues raised before, then they should at least try.

Is there an actual entity to represent the community?  Meaning is there a group that could negotiate with MoDOT and make specific demands and if those demands are met, they have the authorty and standing to petiton the court to remove the court order.

I would have to think that some of the proposals invovling burying the freeway would be very beneficial and if MoDOT were willing to pay, the community could agree.

There is also that $1B fund that Buttagieg set aside for undoing "racist" freeways.  Perhaps some of that funding could qualify for here.  Burying the road will do more to bridge the communinty on both sides of the highway than leaving the three dangerous intersections in place.
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brad2971

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #1206 on: September 05, 2022, 07:34:17 PM »

Remember, a court order prevents the E. Gregory Blvd, E. 59th St., and the E. 55th St. intersections along US 71 from being converted into grade-separations or interchanges (thus keeping the Interstate 49 designation from continuing north of Interstate 435). Until the court order is lifted (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that), the signaled intersections will remain.

If continuing the I-49 designation to either I-70, I-35, or I-29 was of such great importance, MoDOT could very easily solve this issue by simply renumbering I-435 east from I-49 to I-29 simply as...I-49. Or, if the idea is to ban as much thru traffic off Bruce Watkins Dr as possible, MoDOT could simply relinquish Bruce Watkins Dr to Kansas City and put US 71 on I-435 east. In both cases, there would be no need to get the court order reversed; MoDOT would be rerouting thru traffic around downtown KC. You don't have to have freeways everywhere, MoDOT and Missouri.

Just as an aside: Does it ever occur to folks that the entire situation with Bruce Watkins Dr. is one big reason why the citizens of Missouri show the distrust they do toward MoDOT when it comes to tax increases?
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abqtraveler

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #1207 on: September 06, 2022, 08:24:13 AM »

Remember, a court order prevents the E. Gregory Blvd, E. 59th St., and the E. 55th St. intersections along US 71 from being converted into grade-separations or interchanges (thus keeping the Interstate 49 designation from continuing north of Interstate 435). Until the court order is lifted (and I wouldn't hold my breath on that), the signaled intersections will remain.
There are a couple of ways that court order can be handled: 1) the state can appeal the order to the state Court of Appeals or the Missouri Supreme Court, or 2) the Missouri Legislature can overrule the court order by enacting a law that would allow those two intersections to be converted to interchanges (but do expect more lawsuits, if the second option were pursued). 
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2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

 


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