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East Kellog Construction- Wichita

Started by roadman65, March 22, 2018, 09:06:12 PM

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kphoger

Quote from: J N Winkler on April 22, 2019, 08:32:24 PM
I think I have found what is going on.  If I click on Globe, the imagery changes from what I posted to what you posted, and additional controls for 3D appear at the bottom left.

It would appear that Google is updating satellite imagery for Globe and "flat" view on separate schedules.

Yep, that's exactly it.

However, neither view shows the actual new interchange at I-235 & US-54/400.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.


Plutonic Panda

When I get back home I'll check it again. I viewed it from the Google earth iPad app.

Plutonic Panda


Stephane Dumas

I spotted this video showing East Kellogg who was filmed on December 19.
https://youtu.be/49z55Qx3zCA

Bobby5280

Interesting video. One item that looked a little odd: the LED variable message center sign mounted in the center Jersey barrier of the new freeway just East of Greenwich Road. Normally such signs are installed perpendicular to the road to face directly down the highway. This sign is rotated at a good 10 or so degrees out of the typical orientation.

J N Winkler

Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 02, 2020, 09:19:24 PMInteresting video. One item that looked a little odd: the LED variable message center sign mounted in the center Jersey barrier of the new freeway just East of Greenwich Road. Normally such signs are installed perpendicular to the road to face directly down the highway. This sign is rotated at a good 10 or so degrees out of the typical orientation.

I don't know if it will be realigned in a later phase.  The coverage locally has stressed that new movements are open, but the project as a whole is still in progress, hence the partial superstructures (girders without decks) and rough grading at the US 54/Turnpike crossing.  Detours are still marked on orange-background guide signs on I-135 and I-235 since not all of the movements at K-96/US 54 are available.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Scott5114

Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 02, 2020, 09:19:24 PM
Interesting video. One item that looked a little odd: the LED variable message center sign mounted in the center Jersey barrier of the new freeway just East of Greenwich Road. Normally such signs are installed perpendicular to the road to face directly down the highway. This sign is rotated at a good 10 or so degrees out of the typical orientation.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were intentional. After all, half of the sign is on the side of the centerline facing away from it. Kansas signage is full of little touches like that; their overhead signs are tilted downwards towards traffic a few degrees to make them easier to see.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

The freeway section is also still signed at construction-40 mph.  And yes, police do have fun there pulling people over for driving a more reasonable speed.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

route56

I was just reviewing the signage plans for the East Kellogg project on the KDOT ProjectWise server (54-87 KA 2389-01 vol. 5) and noticed a few things.

* KTA exit 50, which was the former double trumpet with Kellogg, is now signed as "Webb Road"

* Exit 53 is now signed as US 54/US 400/K-96. The new ramp from SB I-35/KTA to WB Kellogg is to be signed as Exit 53A, and SB I-35/KTA to K-96 is Exit 53B.

* The "End K-96" assembly is now to be a ground-mounted marker on the mainline after the I-35/KTA/127th Street interchange. The assembly at Kellogg, which was hastily changed when K-96 was truncated 21 years ago and recently replaced in-kind, will only reference US 54 and US 400 with no destination cities. (Apparantly, there is/was also a ground-mounted "End" assembly at the end of the on-ramp to EB Kellogg)

* Of concern, there does *not* appear to be any signage that indicates the new ramps from the Turnpike to Kellogg are KTAG only. If the new exits are indeed KTAG only, I could see enough "toll violation" notices that will get the attention of the local media outlets.
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

J N Winkler

Quote from: route56 on January 16, 2020, 12:33:11 AM* Of concern, there does *not* appear to be any signage that indicates the new ramps from the Turnpike to Kellogg are KTAG only. If the new exits are indeed KTAG only, I could see enough "toll violation" notices that will get the attention of the local media outlets.

Those plans would be the as-lets from three and a half years ago.  They were drawn up in a hurry after the City of Wichita's failure to award a contract just for the Kellogg/Turnpike/Webb element of the total project, and also before the KTA implemented ORT at the terminals and Topeka.  I have been assuming that those elements of the signing plans would be revised by change order once KTA figured out how it wanted electronic-only to work within the Kellogg/Turnpike/K-96 interchange complex.

On the other hand, this is the agency that initially nickeled-and-dimed culvert extensions down to fifty-year flood protection after the existing culverts had flooded and killed people on two separate occasions, opened an express highway directly into Amos Switzer's oat field, etc.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Stephane Dumas

I saw a more recent video of East Kellogg althought the guy filmed it with his cellphone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTS3tVHzT9o

Ned Weasel

#36
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 16, 2020, 12:07:40 PM
On the other hand, this is the agency that initially nickeled-and-dimed culvert extensions down to fifty-year flood protection after the existing culverts had flooded and killed people on two separate occasions, opened an express highway directly into Amos Switzer's oat field, etc.

Geez--  Now I see why you don't seem to be the KTA's biggest fan.  My toll road fetish is probably annoying to some people (although I do think user-based funding and service plazas are cool and mostly good ideas).

This question is kind of outside of my wheelhouse, but it's likely relevant to future topics.  Which agency do you think should oversee the proposed US 69 toll lanes, the (more far off but not out-of-the-question) toll lanes on I-35 and Johnson County, and any tolling of K-10 (if that hasn't been nixed already)?  If these things happen, they will almost certainly be all-electronic, so I'm wondering, is it even possible to use K-TAG for them without the KTA involved in the projects?  Would K-TAG have to be spun off into its own entity?  I'd hate to see Kansas have the mess Florida and Texas used to have with multiple, non-compatible electronic toll systems.  I'd love to see Kansas join the E-ZPass group (it's only two states away from the nearest E-ZPass state), but having E-ZPass in Johnson County and possibly Douglas County but K-TAG on the Kansas Turnpike would be inconvenient for people who don't want to have both transponders on their windshield and--just kind of weird.  (I like weird, though, so maybe that's not so terrible.  And I already have both on my windshield.)
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

J N Winkler

Quote from: stridentweasel on May 18, 2020, 11:07:17 AMThis question is kind of outside of my wheelhouse, but it's likely relevant to future topics.  Which agency do you think should oversee the proposed US 69 toll lanes, the (more far off but not out-of-the-question) toll lanes on I-35 and Johnson County, and any tolling of K-10 (if that hasn't been nixed already)?  If these things happen, they will almost certainly be all-electronic, so I'm wondering, is it even possible to use K-TAG for them without the KTA involved in the projects?  Would K-TAG have to be spun off into its own entity?  I'd hate to see Kansas have the mess Florida and Texas used to have with multiple, non-compatible electronic toll systems.

In Kansas, I think control would follow the path of least resistance in administrative terms.  What KTA brings to the game is the back-office capability to handle billing and receive payments.  The facilities that might be tolled are currently KDOT infrastructure.  The template that would seem most logical to follow is the Katy Freeway expansion in Houston, where TxDOT carried out most of the construction and HCTRA was to oversee and collect tolls on express lanes in the median, which were originally to be branded the Katy Tollway.  (This branding idea was dropped midway through construction, leading to changed signing, and I am not actually sure HCTRA runs them.)

I think the risk of fragmentation of transponder standards is basically nil because interoperability is now a legal and business imperative.  And I don't think we will end up with multiple toll agencies going their respective ways because, unlike Florida and Texas, we do not authorize county or regional toll agencies (nor do we use RMAs like Texas).

Quote from: stridentweasel on May 18, 2020, 11:07:17 AMI'd love to see Kansas join the E-ZPass group (it's only two states away from the nearest E-ZPass state), but having E-ZPass in Johnson County and possibly Douglas County but K-TAG on the Kansas Turnpike would be inconvenient for people who don't want to have both transponders on their windshield and--just kind of weird.  (I like weird, though, so maybe that's not so terrible.  And I already have both on my windshield.)

As we progress toward nationwide interoperability, a situation is developing where the country is partitioned into regions that use different technical standards and interoperability develops first within regions that share the same technical standard.  (In the Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas area, which is looking to merge with North Carolina/South Carolina/Georgia/Florida to create a single large area that uses transponders based on passive RFID technology, progress has been halting--for example, until recently K-Tag had better interoperability with toll tags offered by Texas agencies than Oklahoma's PikePass, which for a long time was compatible only with NTTA TollTag.)  I really do not see any Kansas entities adopting the E-ZPass technical standard even if they operate separately from KTA, simply because there is already an incumbent standard and it is cheaper since transponders do not need periodic replacement as batteries wear out.

This said, there are certain deficiencies in how KTA uses K-Tag that do need to be cleaned up.  These are not really related to the technical standard itself because K-Tags work much better in Oklahoma and Texas than they do here in Kansas.  I've seen tolls from both states post a lot faster than ones incurred on the Kansas Turnpike, and they are always accurate, while I have had multiple Kansas trips post with wrong entry points (sometimes in my favor, sometimes in KTA's).
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Stephane Dumas


Ned Weasel

#39
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on June 25, 2020, 04:10:05 PM
Google did an update of its Streetview imagery on East Kellogg.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6791109,-97.1962473,3a,75y,296.16h,96.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5u28tj0IuUrFuvUbWeuu1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I got a couple of questions:

(1) Does anyone know if they're going to permanently sign the Rock Road exit westbound and the Towne East Mall Drive exit eastbound as exits to I-35/Kansas Turnpike, or are they only going to sign the K-96 exit as such (and the new K-TAG-only ramps)?

(2) A bit off-topic, but it's in close proximity--  Are they ever going to fix this?  https://goo.gl/maps/59LgNeyR2TndE5cb8  Those should be green up arrows, not circular greens.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

kphoger

(1)  I don't know.

(2)  What section of the MUTCD requires them to be arrows?  I don't remember the details of prior discussions about that particular stoplight.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Ned Weasel

Quote from: kphoger on June 25, 2020, 05:41:13 PM
(2)  What section of the MUTCD requires them to be arrows?  I don't remember the details of prior discussions about that particular stoplight.

Section 4D.08, Paragraphs 02 and 03.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

kphoger

Quote from: stridentweasel on June 25, 2020, 05:55:29 PM

Quote from: kphoger on June 25, 2020, 05:41:13 PM
(2)  What section of the MUTCD requires them to be arrows?  I don't remember the details of prior discussions about that particular stoplight.

Section 4D.08, Paragraphs 02 and 03.

Thank you.  I see that such was not new to the 2009 edition, either.  It existed as 4D.16 in the 2003 edition as well.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

route56

Quote from: stridentweasel on June 25, 2020, 05:35:57 PM
(2) A bit off-topic, but it's in close proximity--  Are they ever going to fix this?  https://goo.gl/maps/59LgNeyR2TndE5cb8  Those should be green up arrows, not circular greens.

The folks in the KC Metro seems to be able to properly signal the "permanent green" signals with the proper directional arrow. As an aside, the left-turn signals should also have a red left arrow instead of a circular red.
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

Ned Weasel

Quote from: kphoger on June 25, 2020, 06:18:37 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 25, 2020, 05:55:29 PM
Section 4D.08, Paragraphs 02 and 03.

Thank you.  I see that such was not new to the 2009 edition, either.  It existed as 4D.16 in the 2003 edition as well.

No problem!  I couldn't not look it up after you called me on it.

Quote from: route56 on June 26, 2020, 03:02:02 AM
As an aside, the left-turn signals should also have a red left arrow instead of a circular red.

I think most of us are aware of this, but under the old rules, it was acceptable to have a circular red if you added a "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" regulatory sign, which this example includes.  Many cities/DOTs are still in the process of phasing those out and replacing them with red arrows, but it's going to take a while to get to all of them.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

Ned Weasel

#45
I'd really like to know how they're going to do all the signage for this new series of interchanges.  I've already noticed one thing that really bugs me:

https://goo.gl/maps/MeekCco1k391nAfB8

How in the world are people supposed to know that the direct ramps to I-35/Kansas Turnpike are K-TAG-only, and cash/card customers have to use either the Rock Road or K-96 interchange to access I-35?

EDIT:

OR

Is it not really K-TAG-only and some sort of weird honor system instead?

https://www.kfdi.com/2019/10/14/new-entrance-ramp-opens-in-east-wichita-for-the-kansas-turnpike/

From the article:
Quote
Drivers without a K-TAG or compatible device will not stop for an entry ticket. However, they will use a cash lane on exit to tell a collector (or remote attendant) they entered via this ramp.

Do the toll attendants just assume drivers are telling the truth and haven't actually entered somewhere from a more distant interchange?

Now, I'm guessing that drivers exiting from the Turnpike at Exit 53A without a transponder are charged the "Violation Rate" (https://www.ksturnpike.com/assets/uploads/content-files/July_1_2020_violation_rates.pdf).  But it still makes me wonder how they charge people who exit at a cash/card plaza but say "Oopsie-doopsie, I got on at the cashless entrance from Kellogg!"  I suppose, if people abuse the honor system, they could just charge the Violation Rate for that, too, if that's allowed under whatever laws govern such things.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

route56

Quote from: stridentweasel on August 27, 2020, 06:46:48 PM
I'd really like to know how they're going to do all the signage for this new series of interchanges.  I've already noticed one thing that really bugs me:

https://goo.gl/maps/MeekCco1k391nAfB8

How in the world are people supposed to know that the direct ramps to I-35/Kansas Turnpike are K-TAG-only, and cash/card customers have to use either the Rock Road or K-96 interchange to access I-35?

Didn't I say something about this back in January?

Quote from: route56 on January 16, 2020, 12:33:11 AM
* Of concern, there does *not* appear to be any signage that indicates the new ramps from the Turnpike to Kellogg are KTAG only. If the new exits are indeed KTAG only, I could see enough "toll violation" notices that will get the attention of the local media outlets.
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

Ned Weasel

"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

Stephane Dumas

Openstreetmap shows the ramps of I-35/US-54 open. https://satellites.pro/plan/USA_map#O37.674633,-97.198577,15

I wonder if there's some long-range plans to upgrade US-54 east of I-35 to a freeway down to Andover/Prairie Village?

Ned Weasel

"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.



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