What's cartographic drift, you say? By that, I just mean that a named place has apparently moved from one location to another, for no reason other than the placement of its name on maps?
The example that brought this to mind is that of Groveville, New York, a hamlet within the city of Beacon–or is it the town of Fishkill?
The name Groveville refers to the site of a mill complex on the north bank of Fishkill Creek, along what is now BUS NY 52. (Today it's been converted to artists' lofts, because Beacon.) The early topo map of 1903 clearly shows the hamlet there, with the name label extending westward from the settlement. But in a draft revision from 1936, the label has been flipped to the right side of the settlement, such that it appears on the other side of the creek–but still appears to refer to the original settlement, albeit ambiguously. (To view all these topos yourself, you can use the TopoView (https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/) interface.)
The finished version of that draft edition, published in 1943, shows the label similarly, but now typeset rather than hand engraved. By 1947, the Army edition now shows the label very clearly referring to a location along Washington Ave on the south side of Fishkill Creek, and every edition after that (up to and including the modern USTopo maps) shows the settlement there. And here's the kicker–every GIS-based application I can find shows it likewise, because they're all certainly using the USGS' geographic names database.
Now the thing is, as far as I know nobody ever actually refers to this new location as "Groveville"–nor the original location, for that matter. But what I'm wondering is, are there any examples where a place name is used in common parlance, to refer to a location other than what it originally applies to, merely because its name got moved around on the map?
Dranesville, Virginia seems to have been relocated many times. When I lived in Herndon back in the early 1990s, Dranesville was marked on VA-7 (Byrd Highway) at the intersection with VA-228 (aptly named Dranesville Road). Since then, maps seem to have relocated Dranesville further east in several steps. At one time, I saw a map that located Dranesville at the intersection of VA-7 and the Fairfax County Parkway (now VA-286). Wikipedia indicates that Dranesville is located at the intersection of VA-7 and Georgetown Pike (VA-193). But now the shift seems to have swung into the population centers more southwest. Apple Maps now shows Dranesville located at the intersection of the Fairfax County Parkway and Wiehle Avenue.
It's been a while since I've been around there. Anybody seen where the VDOT sign is now posted?
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 07, 2021, 07:18:28 PM
Dranesville, Virginia seems to have been relocated many times. When I lived in Herndon back in the early 1990s, Dranesville was marked on VA-7 (Byrd Highway) at the intersection with VA-228 (aptly named Dranesville Road). Since then, maps seem to have relocated Dranesville further east in several steps. At one time, I saw a map that located Dranesville at the intersection of VA-7 and the Fairfax County Parkway (now VA-286). Wikipedia indicates that Dranesville is located at the intersection of VA-7 and Georgetown Pike (VA-193). But now the shift seems to have swung into the population centers more southwest. Apple Maps now shows Dranesville located at the intersection of the Fairfax County Parkway and Wiehle Avenue.
In this case, the topo maps are extremely consistent from the earliest days in showing it where Wikipedia says it is–that is, until you get to the 2019 USTopo, which shows it more where Apple Maps does. This is explained by the fact the Dranesville is a Census Designated Place, meaning it has a defined polygonal boundary. These newer maps are likely placing a label near the centroid of that polygon, whereas the traditional topos place the label at the focal point of the actual settlement. (Interestingly, the basemap of the TopoView application shows
both labels–one for the settlement, and one for the census polygon!)
The more westerly location also seems to have some merit–looks like there was an old stagecoach tavern there or something?
I think Taylor Mill, Ky., qualifies. It used to be an unincorporated place about where Latonia Lakes is now. But then it was incorporated as a city a few miles north of that spot.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 08, 2021, 12:46:39 AM
I think Taylor Mill, Ky., qualifies. It used to be an unincorporated place about where Latonia Lakes is now. But then it was incorporated as a city a few miles north of that spot.
Well, I can see it certainly has shifted! But did the place shift because its named got moved on the map, or did its name get moved on the map because the place shifted? The first would qualify; the second would not, but would still be perfectly interesting.
A few suburbs here have had their downtowns left behind with most of the economic and social activity taking place in other areas, so perhaps they should count:
Lynnwood's center used to be at US 99 and 196th Street, but has been pulled east towards I-5 by the opening of Alderwood Mall in the 1970s and the upcoming light rail extension. The city is planning a new downtown at this center.
Lake Stevens wraps around the north and west ends of its lake, with the downtown located at the northeast end. As the west end is easier to access (via SR 9/SR 204) and at the center of the newer sprawl, it's by far the most important part of the city.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 07, 2021, 07:18:28 PM
Dranesville, Virginia seems to have been relocated many times. When I lived in Herndon back in the early 1990s, Dranesville was marked on VA-7 (Byrd Highway) at the intersection with VA-228 (aptly named Dranesville Road). Since then, maps seem to have relocated Dranesville further east in several steps. At one time, I saw a map that located Dranesville at the intersection of VA-7 and the Fairfax County Parkway (now VA-286). Wikipedia indicates that Dranesville is located at the intersection of VA-7 and Georgetown Pike (VA-193). But now the shift seems to have swung into the population centers more southwest. Apple Maps now shows Dranesville located at the intersection of the Fairfax County Parkway and Wiehle Avenue.
It's been a while since I've been around there. Anybody seen where the VDOT sign is now posted?
WB it is posted in the same place it has been for at least 12 years - https://goo.gl/maps/1DHyhoNDjLueZ8Xv8
Quote from: empirestate on March 08, 2021, 01:17:06 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 08, 2021, 12:46:39 AM
I think Taylor Mill, Ky., qualifies. It used to be an unincorporated place about where Latonia Lakes is now. But then it was incorporated as a city a few miles north of that spot.
Well, I can see it certainly has shifted! But did the place shift because its named got moved on the map, or did its name get moved on the map because the place shifted? The first would qualify; the second would not, but would still be perfectly interesting.
I guess it was really the second.
Quote from: Bruce on March 08, 2021, 02:17:22 AM
A few suburbs here have had their downtowns left behind with most of the economic and social activity taking place in other areas, so perhaps they should count:
Lynnwood's center used to be at US 99 and 196th Street, but has been pulled east towards I-5 by the opening of Alderwood Mall in the 1970s and the upcoming light rail extension. The city is planning a new downtown at this center.
Lake Stevens wraps around the north and west ends of its lake, with the downtown located at the northeast end. As the west end is easier to access (via SR 9/SR 204) and at the center of the newer sprawl, it's by far the most important part of the city.
Those would be examples where the community actually drifted in real life, so they wouldn't count. If a socio-economic center of a community moves over time, it would be perfectly natural for mapmakers to move the label accordingly. But the example we're looking for is one where the label on the map drifted away from the true location of the place–and
then the community moved there, for no other reason than to follow the label on the map.
To illustrate a little better, here's (https://goo.gl/maps/toCoEfEVn3PTFyhL9) the location of Groveville as it's understood by all modern maps. (If you zoom straight in, you'll find yourself at the intersection of Washington Ave and Henry St, a completely unremarkable location.) And here (https://historicaerials.com/location/41.51558287923747/-73.93956542015077/T1982/16) it is shown on the topo map, clearly referring to this location and not to anything across the creek.
But here's (https://historicaerials.com/location/41.51391540662483/-73.94936924211002/T1893/15) where it actually is, as correctly shown on a map published when the place was relevant. This location is still readily discernible as some kind of settlement, dominated by the former mill complex and the company housing adjacent to it. But if you step through the topo maps over the years, you can see how the placename gradually moves across Fishkill Creek to where it is now almost universally shown, a place that has no significance whatsoever.
What's missing from this example is that, as far as I've ever heard anyway, nobody actually refers to this new location as Groveville. But its depiction on maps is ubiquitous enough that they conceivably might, and I'm wondering if there's a place where that's actually happened, even to the extent that things got built in and/or named for the "new" location.
Salem and Beverly, MA, swapped names some time after the Witch Trials. Original Salem, today's Beverly, did not want to be associated with said tragedy.
Are you familiar with Agloe, in Delaware County (NY)?
It was a fictional town, added to General Drafting maps in the 1930s to catch map makers plagiarizing their work. That plagiarism did indeed happen, and Agloe began appearing on other publishers' maps–including Esso maps. Because Esso maps were so prominent, a businessman actually opened a store in the phantom town and named it Agloe General Store. Delaware County then considered Agloe to be a real place, and included it in data they provided to Rand McNally. When RMN was sued for copyright infringement, discovered because they had marked Agloe on their map, RMN successfully fought the allegation by stating that Agloe was a real place.
So, rather than Agloe's location moving due to cartography, its very existence was due to cartography.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on March 08, 2021, 06:41:46 PM
Salem and Beverly, MA, swapped names some time after the Witch Trials. Original Salem, today's Beverly, did not want to be associated with said tragedy.
You have a source for this one? Beverly has been its own city since the late 1600's and was a part of Salem before that, but never swapped names with Salem. The witch stuff primarily happened in Danvers (which was called Salem Village at the time). I can't find anything about Salem having any different colonial name since it was settled in the 1620's.
Quote from: SectorZ on March 08, 2021, 07:14:18 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on March 08, 2021, 06:41:46 PM
Salem and Beverly, MA, swapped names some time after the Witch Trials. Original Salem, today's Beverly, did not want to be associated with said tragedy.
You have a source for this one? Beverly has been its own city since the late 1600's and was a part of Salem before that, but never swapped names with Salem. The witch stuff primarily happened in Danvers (which was called Salem Village at the time). I can't find anything about Salem having any different colonial name since it was settled in the 1620's.
Yeah, I am also skeptical of the Salem/Beverly swap given the long, static history in the area.
Quote from: kphoger on March 08, 2021, 07:08:14 PM
Are you familiar with Agloe, in Delaware County (NY)?
It was a fictional town, added to General Drafting maps in the 1930s to catch map makers plagiarizing their work. That plagiarism did indeed happen, and Agloe began appearing on other publishers' maps–including Esso maps. Because Esso maps were so prominent, a businessman actually opened a store in the phantom town and named it Agloe General Store. Delaware County then considered Agloe to be a real place, and included it in data they provided to Rand McNally. When RMN was sued for copyright infringement, discovered because they had marked Agloe on their map, RMN successfully fought the allegation by stating that Agloe was a real place.
So, rather than Agloe's location moving due to cartography, its very existence was due to cartography.
Yes! I do know Agloe–and now that you mention it, I do remember reading that somebody opened a business there. Now I'm left to wonder, was there a case against RMcN, even if the town hadn't become real? There's a well-known precedent in copyright law that says it doesn't apply to information (usually illustrated as "you can't copyright the phone book"), but only to the creative presentation of that information. So you could be sued for copying the design elements of a map–layout, symbology and so forth–but presumably not for merely copying the information it contains (i.e., that there's a town located in Delaware County and its name is Agloe).
When the Northern Pacific Railroad established their depot north of Yakima in 1884, buildings were moved there and a new city was created named North Yakima. After a few years, old Yakima gave up and renamed itself Union Gap, and North Yakima changed its name to Yakima.
The current town of Appomattox, Virginia was not the original Appomattox Court House (where Lee surrendered to Grant); it was previously known as West Appomattox (and before that, Nebraska of all things), and it contained the local railroad station, Appomattox Station.
After the Civil War ended, most of the residents of Appomattox Court House moved to West Appomattox during the following decades since the railroad station wasn't conveniently located, and West Appomattox became just Appomattox in 1894.
Indeed, railroad location (and in some cases post office location, I guess if the stage route is a little ways off from the settlement) is a very common cause of actual drift. This may also be the case in the Dranesville example above, and there may even have been similar forces at play with Taylor Mill.
Actually, the Taylor Mill example is somewhat related to the idea of cartographic drift: if the incorporated city was indeed drawn around an area outside the location of the actual settlement, then it's similar in that an arbitrary imposition of lines on the map caused the place itself to change its location. You can find something similar in a place like Brighton, NY. Although the town remains where it has always been, much of it was annexed by the city of Rochester, including the actual settlement of Brighton (itself an incorporated village). So that part of the city is now almost never referred to as Brighton, although there are a couple of business that do retain the name. Meanwhile, the remaining town of Brighton, containing none of the original settlement, is strongly identified with that name.
Speaking cartographically, there's a preference for putting the 'dot' for a place name at a junction. If something changes to that junction, there's a tendency to move the 'dot'. And in this context, a junction covers more than just roads. The confluence of streams, a road crossing a railroad, a road or a railroad crossing a stream; that type of thing.
What I have seen are places where a name existed at a rural railroad crossing. Then the tracks were abandoned/removed so the place name shifted to a nearby junction of roads. I have personally done it myself on maps of rural counties. Aesthetically, it looks a big off to see a dot for a place name in the middle of a road segment when it's very close to, but not at a junction.
When I first saw this thread, the former independent city of Manchester, Virginia came to mind. After the City of Richmond gobbled up "Old Manchester" in 1910, residents have been pushing the placename further and further out into Chesterfield County. But when I tried to research this, Ducky and other sources kept pointing to the intersection of Hull Street (US-360) and Commerce Road as the exact location. Back when I moved to Chesterfield in the mid-1980s, locals called the area around Hull Street Road and Belt Boulevard as "Manchester". Before I moved away a few years later, folks started using the name "Manchester" to describe the area along further out US-360 just inside the Chippenham (VA-150).
Today, when I was researching Chesterfield County for another thread, Ducky posts the name "Manchester" outside of the Chippenham at the intersection of Elkhardt Road and Turner Road. I've never heard that are referred to as such, but it wouldn't surprise me any. There's a long and sad history of why "Manchester" keeps moving further into the suburbs.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 25, 2021, 08:16:41 AM
When I first saw this thread, the former independent city of Manchester, Virginia came to mind. After the City of Richmond gobbled up "Old Manchester" in 1910, residents have been pushing the placename further and further out into Chesterfield County. But when I tried to research this, Ducky and other sources kept pointing to the intersection of Hull Street (US-360) and Commerce Road as the exact location. Back when I moved to Chesterfield in the mid-1980s, locals called the area around Hull Street Road and Belt Boulevard as "Manchester". Before I moved away a few years later, folks started using the name "Manchester" to describe the area along further out US-360 just inside the Chippenham (VA-150).
Today, when I was researching Chesterfield County for another thread, Ducky posts the name "Manchester" outside of the Chippenham at the intersection of Elkhardt Road and Turner Road. I've never heard that are referred to as such, but it wouldn't surprise me any. There's a long and sad history of why "Manchester" keeps moving further into the suburbs.
Well there's a CDP called Manchester now, and then there's a neighborhood in Richmond, at the location of the former city, also called Manchester. I can find labels for either place, or in some cases both, on various maps, but I don't see any evidence of the label drifting from the former city to the current CDP. Cartographers appear to treat them like separate places.
If the location of "Manchester" has indeed drifted in the public consciousness, it appears that maps have actually failed to reflect this, rather than causing it to happen!
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 25, 2021, 08:16:41 AM
When I first saw this thread, the former independent city of Manchester, Virginia came to mind. After the City of Richmond gobbled up "Old Manchester" in 1910, residents have been pushing the placename further and further out into Chesterfield County. But when I tried to research this, Ducky and other sources kept pointing to the intersection of Hull Street (US-360) and Commerce Road as the exact location. Back when I moved to Chesterfield in the mid-1980s, locals called the area around Hull Street Road and Belt Boulevard as "Manchester". Before I moved away a few years later, folks started using the name "Manchester" to describe the area along further out US-360 just inside the Chippenham (VA-150).
Today, when I was researching Chesterfield County for another thread, Ducky posts the name "Manchester" outside of the Chippenham at the intersection of Elkhardt Road and Turner Road. I've never heard that are referred to as such, but it wouldn't surprise me any. There's a long and sad history of why "Manchester" keeps moving further into the suburbs.
Quote from: empirestate on March 25, 2021, 12:45:42 PM
Well there's a CDP called Manchester now, and then there's a neighborhood in Richmond, at the location of the former city, also called Manchester. I can find labels for either place, or in some cases both, on various maps, but I don't see any evidence of the label drifting from the former city to the current CDP. Cartographers appear to treat them like separate places.
If the location of "Manchester" has indeed drifted in the public consciousness, it appears that maps have actually failed to reflect this, rather than causing it to happen!
Looking at the OP again, it indicates placenames that have moved "for no reason other than the placement of its name on maps". So you are correct, Manchester doesn't technically qualify as there was a "reason" for the drift. But the fact that the placename has drifted almost 7 miles (at least 3 hops that I'm aware of) over the course of my lifetime hopefully deserves a "Dishonorable Mention" award.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 25, 2021, 07:36:29 PM
Looking at the OP again, it indicates placenames that have moved "for no reason other than the placement of its name on maps". So you are correct, Manchester doesn't technically qualify as there was a "reason" for the drift. But the fact that the placename has drifted almost 7 miles (at least 3 hops that I'm aware of) over the course of my lifetime hopefully deserves a "Dishonorable Mention" award.
It's a topic that's interesting in its own right, for sure. It would be interesting to look at places that have been annexed by other places, and see whether and how the old placename persists. (Heck, see my other thread about counties referred to like cities, where Westchester County in New York has special prominence, even though the original town of Westchester has been absorbed by the Bronx, and is still a neighborhood there.)
But yes, the idea here is places that only moved because a mapmaker said they did. When I have time, hopefully I'll get around to putting some images together to illustrate; it's much more obvious when you can see it.