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How did Boston get 495?

Started by kernals12, February 19, 2022, 10:54:23 AM

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froggie

Quote from: Alps on February 23, 2022, 11:14:17 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 23, 2022, 06:49:05 PM
^ It was.  Pre~1975, what is now 495 east of 95 was planned and built as part of the Route 25 Expressway.  MassDPW got approval in 1975 to designate the 95-to-195 segment as 495.

* East of MA 24 was planned and built as part of Route 25. The part from I-95 to MA 24 was designated MA 25 as it was built but it was already planned to become part of I-495.

Steve Anderson's site suggests that between 95 and 24 was also originally planned as 25.  Nevertheless, approval for 495 east of 95 did not happen until the mid-70s.


DJ Particle

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 23, 2022, 08:47:20 PM
Quote from: DJ Particle on February 20, 2022, 11:35:06 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 19, 2022, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2022, 12:20:33 PM
Boston almost had a third loop, the Middle Circumferential Highway: http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/middle-belt/. However, the road proved to be unfeasible.

"almost" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. As far as I can tell, it was never anything more than a line on a map. Bostonroads is the only place I can find any reference to it.

It's "almost" enough that there are still some ghost ramps present that it would have connected to, so I guess you can say a little tiny itty bit of it was built.  😁
Where are these ghost ramps that you're referring to?  Keep in mind that such is not in reference to the cancelled I-695/Inner Belt.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Boston,+MA/@42.3803617,-71.0763791,727m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e3652d0d3d311b:0x787cbf240162e8a0!8m2!3d42.3600825!4d-71.0588801

I do believe this was supposed to be where I-695 met I-93.  The northern ghost ramps, now no longer so, were appropriated for the new Storrow Dr. exit when they built the Zakim bridge.

DJ Particle

Just thought of something else too...  wasn't current I-93 between current US-1 and that exit supposed to originally be I-695 (with I-93 starting at I-695 instead of the other way around?)

Henry

It kind of makes sense that MA went ahead and used up all of its even I-x95s for various projects, given its small size. I-495 and I-295 (albeit for a short distance before continuing into RI) got built, while I-695 and I-895 did not.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

roadman

Quote from: DJ Particle on February 25, 2022, 12:07:16 AM
Just thought of something else too...  wasn't current I-93 between current US-1 and that exit supposed to originally be I-695 (with I-93 starting at I-695 instead of the other way around?)

That is correct.  I-93 was originally supposed to end at the I-695 junction at the Somerville/Boston line.  What are now the upper and lower decks on I-93 were originally supposed to be part of the I-695 Inner Belt.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

PurdueBill

#30
Quote from: roadman on February 25, 2022, 10:16:58 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on February 25, 2022, 12:07:16 AM
Just thought of something else too...  wasn't current I-93 between current US-1 and that exit supposed to originally be I-695 (with I-93 starting at I-695 instead of the other way around?)


That is correct.  I-93 was originally supposed to end at the I-695 junction at the Somerville/Boston line.  What are now the upper and lower decks on I-93 were originally supposed to be part of the I-695 Inner Belt.
Inner Belt Rd. in Somerville (just to the west of the stubs) is one long-lasting vestige of the Inner Belt, and thankfully the only thing with that name.

kramie13

Quote from: roadman on February 25, 2022, 10:16:58 AM
Quote from: DJ Particle on February 25, 2022, 12:07:16 AM
Just thought of something else too...  wasn't current I-93 between current US-1 and that exit supposed to originally be I-695 (with I-93 starting at I-695 instead of the other way around?)

That is correct.  I-93 was originally supposed to end at the I-695 junction at the Somerville/Boston line.  What are now the upper and lower decks on I-93 were originally supposed to be part of the I-695 Inner Belt.

So traffic that wanted to head to NH from Boston would have to take 695 south for a mile to pick up 93 north?  Weird.

RobbieL2415

If you wanna get creative, I-190 -> MA/RI 146 ->I-195 could be the third Boston beltway.

MATraveler128

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on March 01, 2022, 10:58:28 AM
If you wanna get creative, I-190 -> MA/RI 146 ->I-195 could be the third Boston beltway.

You would still be missing the segment of freeway from Leominster, MA to Manchester, NH. Then combine that with NH 101 all the way to Hampton, and there's your third bypass.
Decommission 128 south of Peabody!

Lowest untraveled number: 56

reidcc

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on March 01, 2022, 11:00:27 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on March 01, 2022, 10:58:28 AM
If you wanna get creative, I-190 -> MA/RI 146 ->I-195 could be the third Boston beltway.

You would still be missing the segment of freeway from Leominster, MA to Manchester, NH. Then combine that with NH 101 all the way to Hampton, and there's your third bypass.

I have lived in the general area near the current end of I-190 for most of my life. Back when 190 was on the drawing board there were some discussions of it continuing past its current end at Rt 2, generally running parallel to Rt 13 through North Leominster and Lunenburg- and eventually into New Hampshire. Without making any drastic turns- that would have put the highway on the west side of Nashua, but that was beyond my scope at the time. It would not have been a big deal at that time to envision it continuing north paralleling Rt 13 to Rt 101.

Chris   

Roadgeekteen

I-495 makes it easier for traffic from NY/DC to get to NH/Maine. It also connects a lot of mid-sized cities in the state.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 17, 2022, 04:09:04 PM
I-495 makes it easier for traffic from NY/DC to get to NH/Maine. It also connects a lot of mid-sized cities in the state.

I'm always a bit bemused at the online-generated directions from Connecticut and Rhode Island and points south to Northern New England that call for staying on I-95 throughout instead of 495. 495 certainly has its issues, but if I were traveling north, it's much more preferable.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on March 17, 2022, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 17, 2022, 04:09:04 PM
I-495 makes it easier for traffic from NY/DC to get to NH/Maine. It also connects a lot of mid-sized cities in the state.

I'm always a bit bemused at the online-generated directions from Connecticut and Rhode Island and points south to Northern New England that call for staying on I-95 throughout instead of 495. 495 certainly has its issues, but if I were traveling north, it's much more preferable.
From Rhode Island I-495 is longer than just staying on I-95.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

roadman65

If you take I-395 north from New London into I-290, and then connect with I-495, that may be a valuable alternative to staying on I-95 through Providence and Boston.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 17, 2022, 10:50:09 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on March 17, 2022, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 17, 2022, 04:09:04 PM
I-495 makes it easier for traffic from NY/DC to get to NH/Maine. It also connects a lot of mid-sized cities in the state.

I'm always a bit bemused at the online-generated directions from Connecticut and Rhode Island and points south to Northern New England that call for staying on I-95 throughout instead of 495. 495 certainly has its issues, but if I were traveling north, it's much more preferable.
From Rhode Island I-495 is longer than just staying on I-95.

Depends on the time of day. Boston-area traffic can easily make whatever mileage is saved on 95/128 longer in terms of time.

roadman

Quote from: DJ Particle on February 25, 2022, 12:07:16 AM
Just thought of something else too...  wasn't current I-93 between current US-1 and that exit supposed to originally be I-695 (with I-93 starting at I-695 instead of the other way around?)

That is correct.  I-93 was supposed to end at the Boston/Somerville line at I-695.  What are now the upper and lower decks of I-93 were originally part of I-695, although they were never signed as such.   Although completed in 1971, the roadway wasn't opened until September 11, 1973, the day after an overloaded gravel truck struck a support bent of the Tobin Bridge, causing part of the bridge to collapse.  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10395.msg246301#msg246301
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

kphoger

Quote from: SectorZ on February 24, 2022, 08:20:37 AM

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 23, 2022, 08:47:20 PM

Quote from: DJ Particle on February 20, 2022, 11:35:06 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on February 19, 2022, 12:24:22 PM

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2022, 12:20:33 PM
Boston almost had a third loop, the Middle Circumferential Highway: http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/middle-belt/. However, the road proved to be unfeasible.

"almost" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. As far as I can tell, it was never anything more than a line on a map. Bostonroads is the only place I can find any reference to it.

It's "almost" enough that there are still some ghost ramps present that it would have connected to, so I guess you can say a little tiny itty bit of it was built.  😁

]Where are these ghost ramps that you're referring to?  Keep in mind that such is not in reference to the cancelled I-695/Inner Belt.

I don't believe I've ever found in my travels a single trace of what may have been the middle loop. I think that was just an idea and nothing more.

The statement below was made two years after the "line on the map" was drawn by MassDPW, at a meeting with the Subregionial Intertown Liaison Committee.  Opposition then only continued to increase, and the line disappeared from MassDPW maps five years later.

Quote from: Robert J. Gagnon, Assistant to the Chief Engineer – 14-JAN-1970
There are just no plans to discuss about this mid-circumferential highway, and you people who are asking 'Why build it here?' are talking about something that is simply non-existent.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

DJStephens

Quote from: pderocco on February 22, 2022, 07:21:56 PM
The southern part was long delayed. I-495 was completed to I-95 in 1969, but not extended to MA-24 in 1983. I always wondered if that piece (and renumbering MA-25 as I-495) was an afterthought.
Most of the route was constructed in just a few years.  Remember before the parapets were covered by guard rail extensions, most had dates (with the bronze state shield) in the mid sixties.   Would imagine land out there was very cheap back then.   

kernals12

Quote from: Henry on February 25, 2022, 10:13:56 AM
It kind of makes sense that MA went ahead and used up all of its even I-x95s for various projects, given its small size. I-495 and I-295 (albeit for a short distance before continuing into RI) got built, while I-695 and I-895 did not.

Don't forget 195 and 395

kernals12

Quote from: DJ Particle on February 24, 2022, 11:59:22 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 23, 2022, 08:47:20 PM
Quote from: DJ Particle on February 20, 2022, 11:35:06 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on February 19, 2022, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 19, 2022, 12:20:33 PM
Boston almost had a third loop, the Middle Circumferential Highway: http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/middle-belt/. However, the road proved to be unfeasible.

"almost" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. As far as I can tell, it was never anything more than a line on a map. Bostonroads is the only place I can find any reference to it.

It's "almost" enough that there are still some ghost ramps present that it would have connected to, so I guess you can say a little tiny itty bit of it was built.  😁
Where are these ghost ramps that you're referring to?  Keep in mind that such is not in reference to the cancelled I-695/Inner Belt.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Boston,+MA/@42.3803617,-71.0763791,727m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e3652d0d3d311b:0x787cbf240162e8a0!8m2!3d42.3600825!4d-71.0588801

I do believe this was supposed to be where I-695 met I-93.  The northern ghost ramps, now no longer so, were appropriated for the new Storrow Dr. exit when they built the Zakim bridge.
The name of the neighborhood adjacent to that section of I-93 kind of gives it away.

RyanB06

Quote from: kernals12 on September 04, 2022, 08:29:58 PM
Quote from: Henry on February 25, 2022, 10:13:56 AM
It kind of makes sense that MA went ahead and used up all of its even I-x95s for various projects, given its small size. I-495 and I-295 (albeit for a short distance before continuing into RI) got built, while I-695 and I-895 did not.

Don't forget 195 and 395
195 and 395 are not even.

The Ghostbuster

There is no rule that odd-numbered first-digit three-digit Interstate Highways can't end at another Interstate at both ends.

kphoger

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2022, 04:24:44 PM
There is no rule that odd-numbered first-digit three-digit Interstate Highways can't end at another Interstate at both ends.

I know I've asked it before, but...  are there actually any official "rules" about 3di numbering at all?  There are conventions and patterns, yes, but are there any rules?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Alps

Quote from: kphoger on September 06, 2022, 09:13:07 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2022, 04:24:44 PM
There is no rule that odd-numbered first-digit three-digit Interstate Highways can't end at another Interstate at both ends.

I know I've asked it before, but...  are there actually any official "rules" about 3di numbering at all?  There are conventions and patterns, yes, but are there any rules?
As much as there are rules for 2di numbering. AASHTO decides all.

kernals12

According to the 1968 MassDPW Recommended Highway and Transit Plan, the Middle Circumferential Corridor would've served less than 50,000 vehicles per day.
https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/drs:437541510$53b

That's not nearly enough to justify a freeway.



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