Boston Traffic Reporter/Blogger Defends Use of '128' moniker

[Roadgeekteen]

Attleboro would be okay, if it was signed more consistently... but its not.  Just that one location, on MA 2 approaching 128.  I like the use of dual control points along the 128 portion of I-95... it shows that you're in a land of I-95 where its not all about Boston (like both north and south of 128 sections of I-95, where one direction is Boston, the other is RI or NH/ME).

FWIW, Attleboro is used on ramp and some smaller advance signs at interchanges w/I-95 south from Canton/Exit 23 (old Exit 11) Canton southward.

The 1977-era pull-through signage that existed along I-95 southbound, but were taken down & never replaced, also featured the Attleboro/Providence combo. 

West Stockbridge, in a perfect world, would be "The Berkshires".  I mean, really, is it any different than signing "Cape Cod"?  Which to me seems better than Taunton!  Though I've never been a fan of "Marlboro" on I-495, what else would you sign it?  There's Worcester, but that's not on I-495.  Perhaps Lowell?  Loop roads like I-495 are tough assigning a good control city to.

Worcester is still used as an I-495 southbound control city at its northernmost location.  Formerly, it was used as a southbound I-495 control city on signage all the way down to just before the I-290/MA 85 interchange. 

Such was used as a northbound I-495 control city on signage from I-195 up to just before the I-90 interchange.

Attleboro/Providence is fine.

[vdeane]

^ I agree.  It was I-95/MA 128 for so long that it is ingrained into the minds of the citizens in that area (as well as for a few of us road enthusiasts  ).  I could see a similar situation with I-86/NY 17.  If both routes are posted, that's OK.  Call the highway by whichever number one is used to.

Is NY 17 still posted on I-86?

Depends on how the Regional Traffic Engineer feels when the sign is installed.  Some sign assemblies omit NY 17, others are replace in kind.

Is it in the long-term plan to decommission NY 17?

At the risk of further out-of-state thread drift, they should restore NY 17 to its pre-freeway alignment (including NY 394 and 417).
To steer the thread back into Massachusetts, we could do the same for Route 128.

I'd love old school 128, but I also understand that the fallout from doing so would cause massive issues with navigation.

Some parts of 128, like in Lexington and Woburn, are still state-maintained.

Maybe MA 128A. Moving 128 would screw up navigation, but it would be nice to have an all-surface Boston bypass.

People have had 40 years to get used to I-95.

Why do they have to? 128 has always been signed alongside it.

Only to appease the people who refuse to call it anything else.  IIRC, MA actually tried to remove MA 128 and people vehemently complained.

[Roadgeekteen]

^ I agree.  It was I-95/MA 128 for so long that it is ingrained into the minds of the citizens in that area (as well as for a few of us road enthusiasts  ).  I could see a similar situation with I-86/NY 17.  If both routes are posted, that's OK.  Call the highway by whichever number one is used to.

Is NY 17 still posted on I-86?

Depends on how the Regional Traffic Engineer feels when the sign is installed.  Some sign assemblies omit NY 17, others are replace in kind.

Is it in the long-term plan to decommission NY 17?

At the risk of further out-of-state thread drift, they should restore NY 17 to its pre-freeway alignment (including NY 394 and 417).
To steer the thread back into Massachusetts, we could do the same for Route 128.

I'd love old school 128, but I also understand that the fallout from doing so would cause massive issues with navigation.

Some parts of 128, like in Lexington and Woburn, are still state-maintained.

Maybe MA 128A. Moving 128 would screw up navigation, but it would be nice to have an all-surface Boston bypass.

People have had 40 years to get used to I-95.

Why do they have to? 128 has always been signed alongside it.

Only to appease the people who refuse to call it anything else.  IIRC, MA actually tried to remove MA 128 and people vehemently complained.

Roads are to serve the people.

[kkt]

^ I agree.  It was I-95/MA 128 for so long that it is ingrained into the minds of the citizens in that area (as well as for a few of us road enthusiasts  ).  I could see a similar situation with I-86/NY 17.  If both routes are posted, that's OK.  Call the highway by whichever number one is used to.

Is NY 17 still posted on I-86?

Depends on how the Regional Traffic Engineer feels when the sign is installed.  Some sign assemblies omit NY 17, others are replace in kind.

Is it in the long-term plan to decommission NY 17?

At the risk of further out-of-state thread drift, they should restore NY 17 to its pre-freeway alignment (including NY 394 and 417).
To steer the thread back into Massachusetts, we could do the same for Route 128.

I'd love old school 128, but I also understand that the fallout from doing so would cause massive issues with navigation.

Some parts of 128, like in Lexington and Woburn, are still state-maintained.

Maybe MA 128A. Moving 128 would screw up navigation, but it would be nice to have an all-surface Boston bypass.

People have had 40 years to get used to I-95.

Why do they have to? 128 has always been signed alongside it.

Only to appease the people who refuse to call it anything else.  IIRC, MA actually tried to remove MA 128 and people vehemently complained.

Roads are to serve the people.

So what's the endpoint?  Should there have been no interstate numbers, just US route numbers and state route numbers and maybe a smaller symbol meaning "this road meets interstate standards"?  Should there be interstate numbers but always signed with the previous US or state route number?

[Roadgeekteen]

^ I agree.  It was I-95/MA 128 for so long that it is ingrained into the minds of the citizens in that area (as well as for a few of us road enthusiasts  ).  I could see a similar situation with I-86/NY 17.  If both routes are posted, that's OK.  Call the highway by whichever number one is used to.

Is NY 17 still posted on I-86?

Depends on how the Regional Traffic Engineer feels when the sign is installed.  Some sign assemblies omit NY 17, others are replace in kind.

Is it in the long-term plan to decommission NY 17?

At the risk of further out-of-state thread drift, they should restore NY 17 to its pre-freeway alignment (including NY 394 and 417).
To steer the thread back into Massachusetts, we could do the same for Route 128.

I'd love old school 128, but I also understand that the fallout from doing so would cause massive issues with navigation.

Some parts of 128, like in Lexington and Woburn, are still state-maintained.

Maybe MA 128A. Moving 128 would screw up navigation, but it would be nice to have an all-surface Boston bypass.

People have had 40 years to get used to I-95.

Why do they have to? 128 has always been signed alongside it.

Only to appease the people who refuse to call it anything else.  IIRC, MA actually tried to remove MA 128 and people vehemently complained.

Roads are to serve the people.

So what's the endpoint?  Should there have been no interstate numbers, just US route numbers and state route numbers and maybe a smaller symbol meaning "this road meets interstate standards"?  Should there be interstate numbers but always signed with the previous US or state route number?

Are there other interstates that are mostly known by the other numbers?

[Alps]

Are there other interstates that are mostly known by the other numbers?

In this area, NJ 495 (formerly I-495) is still Route 3 to the tunnel, but that's highly unofficial. I still call it I-95 around Trenton, I'm not sure how locals are dealing. I-64 into St. Louis is still Highway 40 to many.

[vdeane]

The NY 7 freeway is known as "Alternate Route 7".  It has never once been signed that, and as far as I'm aware, people aren't still calling NY 2 "Route 7" either.

[The Ghostbuster]

Old habits die hard.

[Roadgeekteen]

Old habits die hard.

Some old habits never die.

[paul02474]

Attleboro would be okay, if it was signed more consistently... but its not.  Just that one location, on MA 2 approaching 128.  I like the use of dual control points along the 128 portion of I-95... it shows that you're in a land of I-95 where its not all about Boston (like both north and south of 128 sections of I-95, where one direction is Boston, the other is RI or NH/ME).

FWIW, Attleboro is used on ramp and some smaller advance signs at interchanges w/I-95 south from Canton/Exit 23 (old Exit 11) Canton southward.

The 1977-era pull-through signage that existed along I-95 southbound, but were taken down & never replaced, also featured the Attleboro/Providence combo. 

West Stockbridge, in a perfect world, would be "The Berkshires".  I mean, really, is it any different than signing "Cape Cod"?  Which to me seems better than Taunton!  Though I've never been a fan of "Marlboro" on I-495, what else would you sign it?  There's Worcester, but that's not on I-495.  Perhaps Lowell?  Loop roads like I-495 are tough assigning a good control city to.

Worcester is still used as an I-495 southbound control city at its northernmost location.  Formerly, it was used as a southbound I-495 control city on signage all the way down to just before the I-290/MA 85 interchange. 

Such was used as a northbound I-495 control city on signage from I-195 up to just before the I-90 interchange.

Attleboro/Providence is fine.

From Route 2 in Lexington, Attleboro is never fine.

I-95 Southbound between Lexington and Peabody is signed with a combination of Waltham and Providence. Route 2 is less than a mile north of the Waltham city line, so it makes no sense here. Dedham - Providence works. Canton - Providence works. Providence works. Attleboro needs to be replaced.

[Roadgeekteen]

Attleboro would be okay, if it was signed more consistently... but its not.  Just that one location, on MA 2 approaching 128.  I like the use of dual control points along the 128 portion of I-95... it shows that you're in a land of I-95 where its not all about Boston (like both north and south of 128 sections of I-95, where one direction is Boston, the other is RI or NH/ME).

FWIW, Attleboro is used on ramp and some smaller advance signs at interchanges w/I-95 south from Canton/Exit 23 (old Exit 11) Canton southward.

The 1977-era pull-through signage that existed along I-95 southbound, but were taken down & never replaced, also featured the Attleboro/Providence combo. 

West Stockbridge, in a perfect world, would be "The Berkshires".  I mean, really, is it any different than signing "Cape Cod"?  Which to me seems better than Taunton!  Though I've never been a fan of "Marlboro" on I-495, what else would you sign it?  There's Worcester, but that's not on I-495.  Perhaps Lowell?  Loop roads like I-495 are tough assigning a good control city to.

Worcester is still used as an I-495 southbound control city at its northernmost location.  Formerly, it was used as a southbound I-495 control city on signage all the way down to just before the I-290/MA 85 interchange. 

Such was used as a northbound I-495 control city on signage from I-195 up to just before the I-90 interchange.

Attleboro/Providence is fine.

From Route 2 in Lexington, Attleboro is never fine.

I-95 Southbound between Lexington and Peabody is signed with a combination of Waltham and Providence. Route 2 is less than a mile north of the Waltham city line, so it makes no sense here. Dedham - Providence works. Canton - Providence works. Providence works. Attleboro needs to be replaced.

It's fine for the portion south of MA 128.

[The Ghostbuster]

How many people call the stretch of Interstate 93 segment of the Southeast Expressway Highway 3? Is the name as prevalent as calling the Yankee Division Highway as Highway 128, even though it has also been part of Interstate 93 and 95 since the mid-1970's?

[Roadgeekteen]

How many people call the stretch of Interstate 93 segment of the Southeast Expressway Highway 3? Is the name as prevalent as calling the Yankee Division Highway as Highway 128, even though it has also been part of Interstate 93 and 95 since the mid-1970's?

I think that most people call it I-93.

[jp the roadgeek]

How many people call the stretch of Interstate 93 segment of the Southeast Expressway Highway 3? Is the name as prevalent as calling the Yankee Division Highway as Highway 128, even though it has also been part of Interstate 93 and 95 since the mid-1970's?

I think that most people call it I-93.

The Boston highway system to a local:
93: anything from Braintree north into and through Boston
95: Anything south of Canton and north of Peabody
Route 3: Anything southeast of Braintree toward the Cape or north of Burlington toward Lowell and Nashua
128: anything along the 10 mile belt between Braintree and Peabody

And no one evah calls them "Highway x"

[ixnay]

How many people call the stretch of Interstate 93 segment of the Southeast Expressway Highway 3? Is the name as prevalent as calling the Yankee Division Highway as Highway 128, even though it has also been part of Interstate 93 and 95 since the mid-1970's?

I think that most people call it I-93.

The Boston highway system to a local:
93: anything from Braintree north into and through Boston
95: Anything south of Canton and north of Peabody
Route 3: Anything southeast of Braintree toward the Cape or north of Burlington toward Lowell and Nashua
128: anything along the 10 mile belt between Braintree and Peabody

And no one evah calls them "Highway x"

How about US 3 from Burlington north? 

ixnay

[Roadgeekteen]

How many people call the stretch of Interstate 93 segment of the Southeast Expressway Highway 3? Is the name as prevalent as calling the Yankee Division Highway as Highway 128, even though it has also been part of Interstate 93 and 95 since the mid-1970's?

I think that most people call it I-93.

The Boston highway system to a local:
93: anything from Braintree north into and through Boston
95: Anything south of Canton and north of Peabody
Route 3: Anything southeast of Braintree toward the Cape or north of Burlington toward Lowell and Nashua
128: anything along the 10 mile belt between Braintree and Peabody

And no one evah calls them "Highway x"

How about US 3 from Burlington north? 

ixnay

Route 3.

[hotdogPi]

What I want to know is whether they append "route" to 7, 10, and/or 12, which are the numbers that would determine whether it's one digit or one syllable.

[bing101]

^ I agree.  It was I-95/MA 128 for so long that it is ingrained into the minds of the citizens in that area (as well as for a few of us road enthusiasts  ).  I could see a similar situation with I-86/NY 17.  If both routes are posted, that's OK.  Call the highway by whichever number one is used to.

Is NY 17 still posted on I-86?

Depends on how the Regional Traffic Engineer feels when the sign is installed.  Some sign assemblies omit NY 17, others are replace in kind.

Is it in the long-term plan to decommission NY 17?

At the risk of further out-of-state thread drift, they should restore NY 17 to its pre-freeway alignment (including NY 394 and 417).
To steer the thread back into Massachusetts, we could do the same for Route 128.

I'd love old school 128, but I also understand that the fallout from doing so would cause massive issues with navigation.

Some parts of 128, like in Lexington and Woburn, are still state-maintained.

Maybe MA 128A. Moving 128 would screw up navigation, but it would be nice to have an all-surface Boston bypass.

People have had 40 years to get used to I-95.

Why do they have to? 128 has always been signed alongside it.

Only to appease the people who refuse to call it anything else.  IIRC, MA actually tried to remove MA 128 and people vehemently complained.

Roads are to serve the people.

So what's the endpoint?  Should there have been no interstate numbers, just US route numbers and state route numbers and maybe a smaller symbol meaning "this road meets interstate standards"?  Should there be interstate numbers but always signed with the previous US or state route number?

Are there other interstates that are mostly known by the other numbers?

Sacramento I-305 is mainly known as the western terminus of US-50 from the I-80 interchange to the CA-51/CA-99 interchange.

[Roadgeekteen]

^ I agree.  It was I-95/MA 128 for so long that it is ingrained into the minds of the citizens in that area (as well as for a few of us road enthusiasts  ).  I could see a similar situation with I-86/NY 17.  If both routes are posted, that's OK.  Call the highway by whichever number one is used to.

Is NY 17 still posted on I-86?

Depends on how the Regional Traffic Engineer feels when the sign is installed.  Some sign assemblies omit NY 17, others are replace in kind.

Is it in the long-term plan to decommission NY 17?

At the risk of further out-of-state thread drift, they should restore NY 17 to its pre-freeway alignment (including NY 394 and 417).
To steer the thread back into Massachusetts, we could do the same for Route 128.

I'd love old school 128, but I also understand that the fallout from doing so would cause massive issues with navigation.

Some parts of 128, like in Lexington and Woburn, are still state-maintained.

Maybe MA 128A. Moving 128 would screw up navigation, but it would be nice to have an all-surface Boston bypass.

People have had 40 years to get used to I-95.

Why do they have to? 128 has always been signed alongside it.

Only to appease the people who refuse to call it anything else.  IIRC, MA actually tried to remove MA 128 and people vehemently complained.

Roads are to serve the people.

So what's the endpoint?  Should there have been no interstate numbers, just US route numbers and state route numbers and maybe a smaller symbol meaning "this road meets interstate standards"?  Should there be interstate numbers but always signed with the previous US or state route number?

Are there other interstates that are mostly known by the other numbers?

Sacramento I-305 is mainly known as the western terminus of US-50 from the I-80 interchange to the CA-51/CA-99 interchange.

It's unsigned, I was more looking for signed interstates.

[DrSmith]

How many people call the stretch of Interstate 93 segment of the Southeast Expressway Highway 3? Is the name as prevalent as calling the Yankee Division Highway as Highway 128, even though it has also been part of Interstate 93 and 95 since the mid-1970's?

I think that most people call it I-93.

The Boston highway system to a local:
93: anything from Braintree north into and through Boston
95: Anything south of Canton and north of Peabody
Route 3: Anything southeast of Braintree toward the Cape or north of Burlington toward Lowell and Nashua
128: anything along the 10 mile belt between Braintree and Peabody

And no one evah calls them "Highway x"

How about US 3 from Burlington north? 

ixnay

Route 3.

Isn't 93 mostly used to refer to the section from Boston/Sommerville and north?
It seems like South of the O'Neill Tunnel to Braintree is frequently just called the Expressway.

[Roadgeekteen]

How many people call the stretch of Interstate 93 segment of the Southeast Expressway Highway 3? Is the name as prevalent as calling the Yankee Division Highway as Highway 128, even though it has also been part of Interstate 93 and 95 since the mid-1970's?

I think that most people call it I-93.

The Boston highway system to a local:
93: anything from Braintree north into and through Boston
95: Anything south of Canton and north of Peabody
Route 3: Anything southeast of Braintree toward the Cape or north of Burlington toward Lowell and Nashua
128: anything along the 10 mile belt between Braintree and Peabody

And no one evah calls them "Highway x"

How about US 3 from Burlington north? 

ixnay

Route 3.

Isn't 93 mostly used to refer to the section from Boston/Sommerville and north?
It seems like South of the O'Neill Tunnel to Braintree is frequently just called the Expressway.

I know that my family calls all of I-93 "I-93" with 128 starting in Canton.

[PHLBOS]

^ I agree.  It was I-95/MA 128 for so long that it is ingrained into the minds of the citizens in that area (as well as for a few of us road enthusiasts  ).  I could see a similar situation with I-86/NY 17.  If both routes are posted, that's OK.  Call the highway by whichever number one is used to.

Is NY 17 still posted on I-86?

Depends on how the Regional Traffic Engineer feels when the sign is installed.  Some sign assemblies omit NY 17, others are replace in kind.

Is it in the long-term plan to decommission NY 17?

At the risk of further out-of-state thread drift, they should restore NY 17 to its pre-freeway alignment (including NY 394 and 417).
To steer the thread back into Massachusetts, we could do the same for Route 128.

I'd love old school 128, but I also understand that the fallout from doing so would cause massive issues with navigation.

Some parts of 128, like in Lexington and Woburn, are still state-maintained.

Most of the pre-YDH 128 is from about Needham (near MA 135) to Peabody (intersection of Washington & Main Sts.) is still present.  Most of the old stretches of old 128 below Needham was obliterated when the highway version (MassDPW called it The New Rte. 128 in its roadmaps) was constructed in the mid-1950s.

Idea for a Greater Boston area Road Meet Tour perhaps? 

FWIW & according to Wikipedia (based on some old 1951 USGS quad sheets) , there was a very short-lived MA 128A designation for the Woburn to Wakefield stretch that paralleled the then-brand new highway.

As far as placing/re-establishing MA 128 along its pre-highway stretches that are still around is concerned: the navigation issues have more to do with the potential of increased thru-truck traffic along those roads more than anything else.  Some stretches may have had thru-truck restrictions/prohibitions placed well after the MA 128 designations were dropped.  Re-establishing any route number for such stretches would mean that the road would have to be able to/receive thru-truck traffic.  Many of the residents along the road may not be too happy with such.

That said, I would be in favor of either re-establishing the pre-highway MA 128 from Needham to Wakefield/S. Lynnfield or at least have the stretch marked with ceremonial brown HISTORIC 128 markers similar to what brown historic US route markers.

How many people call the stretch of Interstate 93 segment of the Southeast Expressway Highway 3? Is the name as prevalent as calling the Yankee Division Highway as Highway 128, even though it has also been part of Interstate 93 and 95 since the mid-1970's?

I think that most people call it I-93.

The Boston highway system to a local:
93: anything from Braintree north into and through Boston
95: Anything south of Canton and north of Peabody
Route 3: Anything southeast of Braintree toward the Cape or north of Burlington toward Lowell and Nashua
128: anything along the 10 mile belt between Braintree and Peabody

And no one evah calls them "Highway x"

How about US 3 from Burlington north? 

ixnay

Route 3.

Isn't 93 mostly used to refer to the section from Boston/Sommerville and north?
It seems like South of the O'Neill Tunnel to Braintree is frequently just called the Expressway.

I know that my family calls all of I-93 "I-93" with 128 starting in Canton.

I believe this was brought up several pages back.  That stretch of I-93 was originally just the Southeast Expressway & had no route number along it.  The stretch south of Neponset Circle/Granite Ave. (MA 3A & 203 respectively) received the MA 3 designation circa 1962.  The stretch north of there received it circa 1971; MA 203 was part of MA 3 pre-1971.

When the Southwest Expressway plan for I-95 was cancelled; the initial de-facto plan was to run I-95 along the Southeast Expressway.  Rand McNally even jumped the gun and showed I-95 shield labels along the Southeast Expressway in one or two of their Metropolitan Boston road maps even though no I-95 signs were erected along the Expressway at the time.  That plan was changed to the current one, with I-93 running along the Southeast Expressway, when the decision not to build I-95 through Saugus & Lynn was made roughly 2 years later.

Unlike the 128 situation; the Southeast Expressway scenario reinforces what I mentioned earlier & multiple times.  A highway commonly identified/associated by its name as opposed to a number can change its route numbers and/or have many route numbers along it and very few would notice.

[ixnay]

A highway commonly identified/associated by its name as opposed to a number can change its route numbers and/or have many route numbers along it and very few would notice.

Like Black Horse Pike in South Jersey, which is (depending on the section) NJ 168, NJ 42, US 322, or US 40/322.

ixnay