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Expanded Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas toll transponder interoperability on the horizon

Started by route56, February 25, 2016, 07:36:35 AM

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route56

Quote from: Kansas Turnpike Authority
For more information, contact:
Rachel Bell, Marketing & Communications Director, 316.652.2673  rbell@ksturnpike.com

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
February 15, 2016
Kansas Turnpike to be compatible with Texas in early 2017

WICHITA, Kan. – The Kansas Turnpike Authority has entered into an agreement to be part of a hub system that will allow for compatibility between the multiple agencies in Texas and the Oklahoma and Kansas turnpike authorities beginning in 2017.

This partnership will allow travelers to use one electronic transponder to pay for tolls in the Midwest.

"Customers tell us they want more convenient travel be tween states and on other tolling systems. We are excited that this agreement brings us one step closer to offering that,"  said  KTA's CEO Steve Hewitt. "This is an important step toward nationwide interoperability."

Although the agreement has been signed by KTA, there is still much to be done before the electronic tolling systems can all work together. The most time-intensive piece yet-to-be completed is the back-office programming of the "hub" , which will facilitate transaction
communication between seven different tolling authorities in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas.

Hub participants in Texas hope to have this work completed to facilitate interoperability in early 2017.

KTA will provide updates on this and other interoperability efforts throughout 2016.

Currently, K-TAG electronic toll collection program customers can use their K-TAG on all of Oklahoma's ten toll facilities.

Also, of course, the OTA Pikepass can be used on the Kansas Turnpike, along with NTTA facilities in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. NTTA transponders are also valid in Oklahoma, but not Kansas.
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.


jeffandnicole


vdeane

Almost sounds like they're creating a second E-ZPass.  Too bad we can't just force every jurisdiction in the US and Canada to switch to E-ZPass...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Ned Weasel

Quote from: vdeane on February 25, 2016, 10:16:39 PM
Almost sounds like they're creating a second E-ZPass.  Too bad we can't just force every jurisdiction in the US and Canada to switch to E-ZPass...

I personally find an E-ZPass-interoperable transponder more useful than a K-TAG/PikePass-interoperable transponder.  Paying cash for the Kansas Turnpike (which I don't use on a regular basis) and Oklahoma Turnpikes (which I rarely use) isn't a big deal to me (and, for whatever reason, it's been a very long time since I've been on a toll road in Texas).  But on trips to the east coast, it's nice to be able to use the Pennsylvania Turnpike and Verrazano Bridge without having to carry a fat wad of cash in my wallet, and it's nice to get a toll discount and use the open-road-tolling lanes on trips to (or through) northern Illinois.  I'll just wait until Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas become interoperable with E-ZPass, and when they do, my I-PASS will be ready.

By the way, E-ZPass interoperability is mentioned on pages 15 and 17 of the KTA's "Long-Term Needs Study" (http://www.ksturnpike.com/assets/uploads/2015_LTNS.pdf).
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

Bobby5280

The big problem with paying cash on turnpikes: that's not an option on a growing number of toll roads.

Oklahoma's toll roads in the past have been good about cash lane options, but that's only because the toll roads here have been in operation for a long time. Even after PikePass became popular the cash lanes remained open. However, drivers needed to have exact change for exits with unmanned toll booths. Those booths that still have attendants often pull them at late night, leaving the need for exact change. I expect future toll roads in Oklahoma to be unmanned, requiring PikePass use.

Plenty of toll roads in Texas use only toll tags or photograph your license plate for mail-in payment. Texas having at least 3 different toll road agencies makes that a pain. I'll really like it once PikePass can operate on any toll road in Texas.

route56

The self-pay lanes in Kansas give change... and they take plastic.


39001 by Richie Kennedy, on Flickr

Cassoday (exit 92) and Tonganoxie (exit 212) are the only exits I'm aware of that are completely unstaffed. The latter is also the first interchange that introduced self-pay cash lanes to the Kansas Turnpike.

[The above photo was taken at the Tonganoxie exit soon after it opened in December 2009]
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

Ned Weasel

Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 26, 2016, 04:52:02 PM
The big problem with paying cash on turnpikes: that's not an option on a growing number of toll roads.

Oklahoma's toll roads in the past have been good about cash lane options, but that's only because the toll roads here have been in operation for a long time. Even after PikePass became popular the cash lanes remained open. However, drivers needed to have exact change for exits with unmanned toll booths. Those booths that still have attendants often pull them at late night, leaving the need for exact change. I expect future toll roads in Oklahoma to be unmanned, requiring PikePass use.

Is it a big deal to just stock up on quarters, dimes, and nickels before you hit the road?  It's pretty common knowledge that you should carry a bunch of quarters and dimes if you're driving the Garden State Parkway without an E-ZPass.  The exact change requirement doesn't mean people should rush out and get a PikePass; it just means people should plan ahead, which they should do anyway.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

route56

Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

Bobby5280

You never know. Well, correction, i do know. I plan ahead and have cash or whatever for turnpikes or am prepared to shunpike the idiot versions that only take their precious special specific in network plan tag. I have ways of avoiding their damned road if they can't make it easy and reasonable to drive on it. And that's another hint to the poop-hair slow boys who perpetuate this madness of many inoperable toll tags across the continent. There really is no legitimate excuse for that nonsense. They need to fix it already and do it ASAP. Don't make us wait til 2018 or whenever. Get it done. Now.

I won't be made to be patient over it. This is a problem those toll company people created themselves over their big egos. Fix it immediately without inconveniencing us.

Defense of the current status quo? None that I can see. If the toll company guys want to make it difficult for me to get around then I'll find ways to stay put in my own community and buy some crap online that I might have otherwise bought on a road trip.


rte66man

Had my first chance to use my Pikepass on the Kansas Turnpike from South Haven to Wichita.  WTF????  Gates??? Slow to 20 m.p.h???  What genius came up with that?
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

bmorrill

Quote from: rte66man on March 20, 2016, 11:19:56 PM
Had my first change to use my Pikepass on the Kansas Turnpike from South Haven to Wichita.  WTF????  Gates??? Slow to 20 m.p.h???  What genius came up with that?
Two of the plazas on the H. E. Bailey are built like that, although OTA will rebuild them eventually.

bmorrill

And speaking of interoperability, PikePass and TexTag were supposed to have been talking to each other two years ago, but that proposal seems to have died a quiet death. I got tired of waiting for it to happen and traded in my TexTag and PikePass for an NTTA TollTag. Works in Texas and Oklahoma, and I never go up into Kansas.

rte66man

Quote from: bmorrill on March 21, 2016, 10:13:05 AM
Quote from: rte66man on March 20, 2016, 11:19:56 PM
Had my first change to use my Pikepass on the Kansas Turnpike from South Haven to Wichita.  WTF????  Gates??? Slow to 20 m.p.h???  What genius came up with that?
Two of the plazas on the H. E. Bailey are built like that, although OTA will rebuild them eventually.

Not at all the same.  The Bailey toll plazas were built in the 60's way before Pikepass was a reality.  If you are KTA, why spend all that money on new lanes and MAKE everyone slow down?  Why not do it like OTA, make the lanes high speed with cameras to capture the scofflaws.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

route56

Quote from: rte66man on March 20, 2016, 11:19:56 PM
Had my first chance to use my Pikepass on the Kansas Turnpike from South Haven to Wichita.  WTF????  Gates??? Slow to 20 m.p.h???  What genius came up with that?

Starker, this is Kansas, we don't open road here (at least not yet)

As to why the KTA did not do ORT when it re-did the mainline plazas in the early 2000s, I suppose it may had to do with how the authority wanted to handle toll enforcement.... or toll-taker job security. If a driver without a K-TAG uses the KTAG lane, they will be greeted by the toll-taker in the adjacent cash lane.

KTA is looking at joining the modern era and implementing ORT on the mainline plazas.
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

kphoger

Quote from: route56 on February 26, 2016, 09:29:35 PM
I don't need a PikePass.... I already got a K-TAG  :bigass:

Except KTAG doesn't work with NTTA yet...

Hey, everybody, I have finally found myself in a position to get a PikePass:  We finally have a new (to us) vehicle, and the only toll roads I use anymore are in Kansas and Oklahoma–unless you count the border crossing into México, which doesn't take tags at all.  So what is the best way for me to go about getting a PikePass, and how exactly does that work?  Does it take a certain amount of money down?  Do I have to keep adding money into the account?  etc.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

As I recall, K-Tag was introduced in the mid-1990's when almost nobody was doing ORT.  There would have been operational considerations as well when re-doing the terminal plazas, since other agencies that do mainline ORT generally require cash-paying traffic to exit to side plazas.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

route56

Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2016, 02:37:27 PM
Except KTAG doesn't work with NTTA yet...

Hey, everybody, I have finally found myself in a position to get a PikePass:  We finally have a new (to us) vehicle, and the only toll roads I use anymore are in Kansas and Oklahoma–unless you count the border crossing into México, which doesn't take tags at all. 

So, you want to get a PikePass because K-TAGs don't work in Dallas, yet you also state that you don't use any toll roads besides KS and OK...  :confused:

As for your questions, they can probably best be answered by pikepass.com and myktag.com. From what I can tell, Oklahoma does require money down to open a PikePass account and is pre-pay. The KTA, on the other hand, is in the process of moving their remaining pre-pay accounts to post-pay. KTA does require an active piece of plastic on file, which will generally be charged monthly.*

*However, the KTA will not send a statement or charge a card if the K-TAG balance remains less than $10 for up to 6 months. For example, in January of this year, I did not do a lot of driving due to a foot injury and, therefore, only accrued $9.52 in Tolls. I did not receive a statement for January; the balance carried over to February. I returned to work in February, so I quickly reached the $10 threshold and got a statement for February.
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

J N Winkler

Today, probably more than 20 years after K-Tag started, I finally opened a K-Tag account.  I have to say input validation on the K-Tag website does not work well at all.

*  Your password must, at minimum, have eight characters, with at least one in the following categories:  uppercase letter, lowercase letter, digit, and special character.  If you use a period or comma as the special character, the password will pass client-side validation but the server will reject it.  The server will also make you wait until you have a password that meets its exacting standards (I ultimately had to use an octothorp as the special character) before it tells you that your preferred username is unavailable.

*  The second page of the form, which asks you to specify two telephone numbers, does not indicate a format or perform client-side validation, but the server will spit the form back if grouping characters like hyphens or parentheses are used in either phone number.

I asked for three RFID stickers, so each car in the family fleet will have its own sticker.  I am still not sold on permanently attaching any of them to the inside of the windshield, and am considering whether I should set aside foil packets to carry them when I pass outside the current areas of K-Tag interoperability.  Ultimately, I decided to sign up for K-Tag on the basis of accounting convenience, because I don't use tolled infrastructure in any US state often enough to justify the upfront cost of a hardshell transponder, let alone the ongoing headache of staying up to date on prepaid toll accounts.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

route56

Quote from: J N Winkler on April 17, 2016, 12:58:02 PM
*  Your password must, at minimum, have eight characters, with at least one in the following categories:  uppercase letter, lowercase letter, digit, and special character.  If you use a period or comma as the special character, the password will pass client-side validation but the server will reject it.  The server will also make you wait until you have a password that meets its exacting standards (I ultimately had to use an octothorp as the special character) before it tells you that your preferred username is unavailable.

The "strengthening" of the password requirements is relatively recent. My original password for the KTA website was six characters with no "special" characters (an old relic from my days as a KU student: it was the password assigned to my EECS account)

Octothorpe? I think many people would be clueless as to what that is. However, if you said "pound sign" or "hashtag"...

* route56 $w0rdF1$h
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

Scott5114

I generally avoid periods and commas as special characters in passwords because they have meaning in several programming languages and thus are frequently disallowed. I've had an issue with a program at work disliking asterisks in a subtly broken way: it allows you to change your password to include an asterisk, but you cannot manually change that password (e.g. to synchronize it the password used on other systems with enforced password rotation); you must wait for the password to expire and for the program to prompt you for a new password. I assume this has something to do with SQL (or perhaps Visual Basic) wildcarding, but I can't figure out what would cause the error to manifest itself in such a way.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

J N Winkler

A couple of days after my last post upthread, the three RFID tags arrived, and I drove around in a 2005 Toyota Camry on the Turnpike south of Wichita on Wednesday, April 20, to test one of them, deliberately not mounting it on the windshield.  I then did further testing on the turnpikes in both Kansas and Oklahoma in the course of an overnight weekend trip (spending the night of Saturday, April 23, in Mena, Arkansas), before I eventually gave in and actually stuck the tag to the windshield.  These were my findings:

*  On KTA infrastructure, blown reads are typically not readily evident unless there is a gate that is down that does not go up as your car approaches.  Gates on some ramps (e.g. southbound entry at Exit 42, South Wichita) seem to be left up by default.  Both KTA and OTA use little thank-you lights, but these are not conspicuous, and at speed and especially with the ORT rigs OTA uses on the Kilpatrick Turnpike, it is difficult to tell whether the light is actually coming on for your car rather than a nearby transponder-equipped vehicle.  If memory serves, OTA does not use gates for transponder lanes even at traditional mainline toll plazas on the older turnpikes.  (Since KTA uses a tolling model that requires attribution of entry and exit point to a given vehicle, it is not clear to me whether an apparent failed read on exit is actually due to failed read on entry.)

*  KTA has a very vague brochure on RFID tag installation that says, essentially, "install between mirror mount and headliner."  On the Camry this would have meant putting the sticker on top of anti-glare stippling around the mirror mount, thus making it impossible to razor off without also removing the stippling.  These are bad instructions:  no-one should ever be made to feel that he or she has to damage his or her car, even cosmetically, to use a transponder.  OTA has a much better brochure with highly specific instructions for multiple mounting scenarios, including trucks and private passenger automobiles with mirror mounts on the headliner or windshield.  OTA stresses that the tag must be stuck on the windshield with no air bubbles, and for cars recommends a mounting position 4 in below headliner edge, which can be conveniently measured with a ruler printed in the brochure.  When I finally gave in and stuck the tag on (at a truck parking area just off I-35 near Stillwater), I followed the OTA (not KTA) instructions, choosing a location that was both outside the anti-glare stippling and completely hidden from view by the mirror itself.

*  Both KTA and OTA will read an unattached sticker tag reliably only if it is actually held against the windshield at or above driver's eye height.  If the tag is perched at the bottom of the windshield, or held in the driver's hand on the steering wheel, successful reads become a matter of chance, while a tag on top of the console next to the gearshift lever is effectively invisible.  Tag readers (usually housed in white boxes suspended from mast arms) are easy to spot everywhere on the Kansas Turnpike and at traditional mainline and ramp plazas on older OTA infrastructure.  On newer OTA facilities (Kilpatrick Turnpike for sure, and probably also Creek Turnpike as well), readers are sometimes hidden; I tried the Kilpatrick Turnpike and blew past a reader on the I-40 ramp before I had a chance to pick up the tag and hold it to the windshield.

*  The two agencies have different protocols for handling blown reads.  On KTA infrastructure, if the gate is down, the toll collector will raise it manually, and you are then expected to roll down your window, show your transponder, and state your entry point so the journey can be manually recorded.  On OTA infrastructure, there is no immediate response, though there are numerous signs warning of heavy fines for toll evasion.  When I visited the PikePass service center at I-35 and NE 122nd St. in Oklahoma City to report what I suspected was a blown read on the Kilpatrick Turnpike at the I-40 ramp, I learned that (1) there is no way to determine in real time whether a read has failed, and (2) any failed reads (including self-reporting) must be handled through the home agency, which was KTA in my case.  Since KTA (unlike some other transponder-issuing toll agencies) does not require the user to report the license plate number of the car in which a particular transponder has been installed, the license plate of a vehicle whose transponder is not read cannot be automatically attributed to a particular transponder account for billing purposes.

I am still hearing stories of people driving transponderlessly on electronically tolled roads in Texas and Florida without any comeback, but I don't know if that is or has ever been true for Oklahoma.  In Kansas, a law has just been passed which provides for blocking license plate renewal for any vehicle for which over $100 worth of unpaid tolls (I believe exclusive of collection charges) has accumulated.  KTA would like to move to ORT in the near future; the time is ripe since 70% of its toll collectors are at or near retirement age.  This initiative has received added impetus from a recent accident in which a tractor-trailer collided with a minivan stopped to pick up a toll ticket at the South Terminal, resulting in one tollbooth overturned and minor injuries to two people.

Toll agencies in general are still far too blasé about the implications of people having multiple windshield-mounted transponders.  Paraphrasing their respective brochures, KTA says "Take down any transponders interoperable with us to avoid double-billing issues," while OTA says, "Our tag can go down right next to other agencies' transponders" (no word about what this does to visibility through the windshield).  Nationwide interoperability will eventually remove the need to have more than one transponder just to enable electronic toll collection, but AFAIK federal law still allows geographical toll discrimination (like what Rhode Island tried to do with the Sakonnet bridge) and this will have to be abolished in order to remove the incentive to run multiple transponders.  KTA and OTA do behave well from this point of view since they honor each other's electronic discounts.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

rte66man

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 09, 2016, 01:50:59 PM
A couple of days after my last post upthread, the three RFID tags arrived, and I drove around in a 2005 Toyota Camry on the Turnpike south of Wichita on Wednesday, April 20, to test one of them, deliberately not mounting it on the windshield.  I then did further testing on the turnpikes in both Kansas and Oklahoma in the course of an overnight weekend trip (spending the night of Saturday, April 23, in Mena, Arkansas), before I eventually gave in and actually stuck the tag to the windshield.  These were my findings:
If memory serves, OTA does not use gates for transponder lanes even at traditional mainline toll plazas on the older turnpikes. 

Before the Wellston service area on the westbound Turner was razed in the last few years, there was an arm there.  When the westbound onramp was rebuilt, the arm was removed. I have traveled every mile of OK turnpikes numerous times and have not seen another arm.  Even when the Turner and Will Rogers had toll booths at each end, there were no arms.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Bobby5280

I can't wait for OTA to rebuild the Walters and Chickasha toll plazas on the H.E. Bailey Turnpike. If I recall correctly they were scheduled to be rebuilt in 2016 (Chickasha) and 2018 (Walters). Does anyone know if that schedule is still good or have those projects been pushed back years later?

The Chickasha and Walters toll booths may not have arms, but they still suck for their lack of high speed Pike Pass lanes. I wish the Newcastle toll plaza had two lanes for Pike Pass users, but at least the single outboard lanes are high speed.

J N Winkler

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 24, 2016, 04:30:00 PMI can't wait for OTA to rebuild the Walters and Chickasha toll plazas on the H.E. Bailey Turnpike. If I recall correctly they were scheduled to be rebuilt in 2016 (Chickasha) and 2018 (Walters). Does anyone know if that schedule is still good or have those projects been pushed back years later?

Chickasha tollbooth relocation contract (HEB-MC-59) was advertised with an opening date last May 10:

https://www.pikepass.com/Engineering/ProjectInformation.aspx
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Bobby5280

The "opening" date of May 10 for the re-build of the Chickasha toll plaza: is that "opening" meaning the project is only just now being opened for bids? If that's the case construction probably won't start on the project before year's end or maybe well on into 2017.

At least the design in the plan sheets show the two main travel lanes of I-44 in each direction will remain in the center while the toll booths are built to the outside. That will make it a significantly better toll booth than the one South of Newcastle.



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