News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

Merging Problems

Started by PColumbus73, March 12, 2017, 11:26:32 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

PColumbus73

Has anyone else noticed more drivers forgetting how to merge on to a highway?

In my area, a lot of people tend to creep in an accel lane instead of waiting for a gap in traffic, then speeding up to merge in. In about two instances this weekend I seriously saw drivers running out of lane and driving into the grass creeping in the accel lane. There was an instance a while ago where I had to hit the brakes because the guy in front of me came to a near stop (in the travel lane!) to let some creeper merge over. There have been several occasions where someone was going at a decent speed trying to merge and I gave them a gap but they insisted on slowing down!

It frustrates me every time I see that happening. I think SCDOT here should tear out all the accel lanes on divided highways because people here are obviously doing it wrong.


kalvado

Quote from: PColumbus73 on March 12, 2017, 11:26:32 AM

It frustrates me every time I see that happening. I think SCDOT here should tear out all the accel lanes on divided highways because people here are obviously doing it wrong.
You had some credibility until that last phrase. But now, i would like to see a video of YOU merge...

vdeane

Happens all the time in the Capital District, to the point where I'm convinced that a good chunk of the rush hour congestion is caused by it.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Max Rockatansky

Maybe installing a traffic calming light at the part where the two acceleration lanes converge?  It seemed to work pretty well keeping things flowing on the freeways in Phoenix during rush hour.  The only neglible effect was that sometimes the calming device would back traffic up onto a surface street. 

vdeane

That would probably just make things worse.  At one of the ramps I'm thinking of, traffic ALREADY backs up onto the surface streets regularly (sometimes a mile or two down the road... and if it gets really bad, like if traffic is trying to divert around an accident, it can back up so far that it extends all the way back onto the same interstate!).  Plus people in the Capital District don't know or care how to use an acceleration lane or how to change lanes; as far as they're concerned, it doesn't matter what the speed of traffic is or who is behind them in the other lane, it is their entitlement to cut over whenever they want.  When merging, they usually cut across the gore area well below the speed of traffic, only accelerating AFTER merging into the travel lane, forcing everyone else to slow down or stop to let them in, and people accommodate it.  People even slow down in the other lanes to accommodate people in the right lane making last minute lane changes without regard to anyone else.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2017, 05:07:51 PM
Maybe installing a traffic calming light at the part where the two acceleration lanes converge?  It seemed to work pretty well keeping things flowing on the freeways in Phoenix during rush hour.  The only neglible effect was that sometimes the calming device would back traffic up onto a surface street. 

?

This involves merging into a highway. What would the purpose of a traffic calming light be for when you want traffic to go faster to merge onto an already fast highway?

DaBigE

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 12, 2017, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2017, 05:07:51 PM
Maybe installing a traffic calming light at the part where the two acceleration lanes converge?  It seemed to work pretty well keeping things flowing on the freeways in Phoenix during rush hour.  The only neglible effect was that sometimes the calming device would back traffic up onto a surface street. 

?

This involves merging into a highway. What would the purpose of a traffic calming light be for when you want traffic to go faster to merge onto an already fast highway?

Further, what is a traffic calming light? Are we talking about a ramp meter?
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

Max Rockatansky

#7
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 12, 2017, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2017, 05:07:51 PM
Maybe installing a traffic calming light at the part where the two acceleration lanes converge?  It seemed to work pretty well keeping things flowing on the freeways in Phoenix during rush hour.  The only neglible effect was that sometimes the calming device would back traffic up onto a surface street. 

?

This involves merging into a highway. What would the purpose of a traffic calming light be for when you want traffic to go faster to merge onto an already fast highway?

I'm aware, look at the Loop 101 merge lanes in Scottsdale.  Specifically the ramps and merge lanes from Pima Road south of Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd.  There is two lanes on the ramp that converge into a single merge lane.  Where the two lanes meet on the ramp there are traffic lights that were specifically put in to stop people from doing what the OP described since the light only lets one car on at a time during rush hour.  Granted I'm aware that the OP didn't specify the route, so I suppose it could be anything from freeway down to a normal surface route design.  Given that the OP stated "highway" I took it to mean either a freeway or an expressway.

Edit:  In regards to the post that just came in, ADOT always called it traffic calming but yes it would be a ramp meter.

kalvado

Quote from: vdeane on March 12, 2017, 05:13:55 PM
That would probably just make things worse.  At one of the ramps I'm thinking of, traffic ALREADY backs up onto the surface streets regularly (sometimes a mile or two down the road... and if it gets really bad, like if traffic is trying to divert around an accident, it can back up so far that it extends all the way back onto the same interstate!).  Plus people in the Capital District don't know or care how to use an acceleration lane or how to change lanes; as far as they're concerned, it doesn't matter what the speed of traffic is or who is behind them in the other lane, it is their entitlement to cut over whenever they want.  When merging, they usually cut across the gore area well below the speed of traffic, only accelerating AFTER merging into the travel lane, forcing everyone else to slow down or stop to let them in, and people accommodate it.  People even slow down in the other lanes to accommodate people in the right lane making last minute lane changes without regard to anyone else.
Another big part of a problem is "keep right no matter what" crowd. Often those are same people who deliberately close gaps in traffic.


As for metering - it may work if vehicles are metered at a same or lower rate as gaps in traffic are coming. Which is often a pretty low rate, to be honest..

DaBigE

#9
Quote from: kalvado on March 12, 2017, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 12, 2017, 05:13:55 PM
That would probably just make things worse.  At one of the ramps I'm thinking of, traffic ALREADY backs up onto the surface streets regularly (sometimes a mile or two down the road... and if it gets really bad, like if traffic is trying to divert around an accident, it can back up so far that it extends all the way back onto the same interstate!).  Plus people in the Capital District don't know or care how to use an acceleration lane or how to change lanes; as far as they're concerned, it doesn't matter what the speed of traffic is or who is behind them in the other lane, it is their entitlement to cut over whenever they want.  When merging, they usually cut across the gore area well below the speed of traffic, only accelerating AFTER merging into the travel lane, forcing everyone else to slow down or stop to let them in, and people accommodate it.  People even slow down in the other lanes to accommodate people in the right lane making last minute lane changes without regard to anyone else.
Another big part of a problem is "keep right no matter what" crowd. Often those are same people who deliberately close gaps in traffic.

"Crowd"? Keep right except to pass is the law most places. As for those who "close gaps" that's a whole 'nother illegal behavior, as 99% of the time they're following too close.

What happened to the practice of matching the speed in order to merge? If traffic is so heavy the mainline gaps are very small, entering traffic merging from a dead-stop should not be an issue, as the mainline will be crawling too. People just need to start driving less like assholes, start following the rules, and act more like the intelligent species we supposedly are.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

kalvado

Quote from: DaBigE on March 12, 2017, 06:48:33 PM
Quote from: kalvado on March 12, 2017, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 12, 2017, 05:13:55 PM
That would probably just make things worse.  At one of the ramps I'm thinking of, traffic ALREADY backs up onto the surface streets regularly (sometimes a mile or two down the road... and if it gets really bad, like if traffic is trying to divert around an accident, it can back up so far that it extends all the way back onto the same interstate!).  Plus people in the Capital District don't know or care how to use an acceleration lane or how to change lanes; as far as they're concerned, it doesn't matter what the speed of traffic is or who is behind them in the other lane, it is their entitlement to cut over whenever they want.  When merging, they usually cut across the gore area well below the speed of traffic, only accelerating AFTER merging into the travel lane, forcing everyone else to slow down or stop to let them in, and people accommodate it.  People even slow down in the other lanes to accommodate people in the right lane making last minute lane changes without regard to anyone else.
Another big part of a problem is "keep right no matter what" crowd. Often those are same people who deliberately close gaps in traffic.

"Crowd"? Keep right except to pass is the law most places. As for those who "close gaps" that's a whole 'nother illegal behavior, as 99% of the time they're following too close.

What happened to the practice of matching the speed in order to merge? If traffic is so heavy the mainline gaps are very small, entering traffic merging from a dead-stop should not be an issue, as the mainline will be crawling too. People just need to start driving less like assholes, start following the rules, and act more like the intelligent species we supposedly are.
And you're probably never exceeding speed limit? You know, that is another law...

What "keep right" tries to ensure is basically smooth flow on stretches without significant maneuvering.  Merging require gaps - or, in other words, cars moving left while there is still room in right lane. Probably wasn't that big of an issue when traffic was lighter.  But once flow is more than 2000 VPH, keep right means no merges.

Another interesting observation - many trucks move over from right lane to give breathing room for merging traffic.

As for bottlenecks @vdeane mentioned - I am pretty sure one of them can be removed by closing one through lane before exit. Another way of reducing "keep right"  from The Dogma to usable concept

epzik8

I've seen people cut in before they're supposed to merge.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

My clinched highways: http://tm.teresco.org/user/?u=epzik8
My clinched counties: http://mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/epzik8.gif

Mergingtraffic

that is what causes backups everyday.  1) somebody merging in slower and it cause others to slow down  2) or somebody in the mainline slowing down too much to let someone in.

I'd say this is the cause of most backups...just think one driver can affect 1000s of other drivers.
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

Duke87

Around these parts, we've got quite a few roads that aren't up to modern design standards and still feature things like onramps which end in stop signs with either no accel lane or only a tiny very short one. The proper way to enter the highway at one of these ramps is to come to a complete stop at the end of the ramp, look over your shoulder, wait for a nice gap in traffic to jump into, and then gun it when it arrives. The way a lot of people actually do it often resembles one of the following:
1) Never come to a complete stop or check to see that there's a gap, just keep driving. If there's someone coming in the right lane they can either jump into the center lane or slam their brakes to avoid hitting you.
2) Come to a complete stop and look over your shoulder, but then start moving to get on while the car at the front of a large enough gap is still behind you, forcing them to swerve around you.
3) Pull up right behind the bumper of the vehicle in front of you on the ramp, possibly obstructing their view with your huge-ass SUV, then honk at them when they take more than two seconds to jump on the highway.
4) Come to a complete stop at the end of the ramp, and then when entering the highway take a full minute to accelerate up to 40 MPH.

Sure, eliminating the stop signs and having actual acceleration lanes would be great - but people find ways to screw those kinds of situations up too. So yes, there is definitely a problem out there with people not really merging properly.

I will even admit to being guilty of it myself sometimes, although usually it's because I know other people drive like maniacs and I'm being overly defensive in response. I would rather slow down and let someone merge in front of me than maintain speed and hope that they'll yield to me like they're supposed to (see alternate merging methods 1 and 2 above for why I don't trust people to do this).
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

DaBigE

Quote from: kalvado on March 12, 2017, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on March 12, 2017, 06:48:33 PM
Quote from: kalvado on March 12, 2017, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 12, 2017, 05:13:55 PM
That would probably just make things worse.  At one of the ramps I'm thinking of, traffic ALREADY backs up onto the surface streets regularly (sometimes a mile or two down the road... and if it gets really bad, like if traffic is trying to divert around an accident, it can back up so far that it extends all the way back onto the same interstate!).  Plus people in the Capital District don't know or care how to use an acceleration lane or how to change lanes; as far as they're concerned, it doesn't matter what the speed of traffic is or who is behind them in the other lane, it is their entitlement to cut over whenever they want.  When merging, they usually cut across the gore area well below the speed of traffic, only accelerating AFTER merging into the travel lane, forcing everyone else to slow down or stop to let them in, and people accommodate it.  People even slow down in the other lanes to accommodate people in the right lane making last minute lane changes without regard to anyone else.
Another big part of a problem is "keep right no matter what" crowd. Often those are same people who deliberately close gaps in traffic.

"Crowd"? Keep right except to pass is the law most places. As for those who "close gaps" that's a whole 'nother illegal behavior, as 99% of the time they're following too close.

What happened to the practice of matching the speed in order to merge? If traffic is so heavy the mainline gaps are very small, entering traffic merging from a dead-stop should not be an issue, as the mainline will be crawling too. People just need to start driving less like assholes, start following the rules, and act more like the intelligent species we supposedly are.
And you're probably never exceeding speed limit? You know, that is another law...

So is using a turn signal...what's you're point? Even if I/you/LEOs/everyone else is speeding, it still falls under the umbrella of entering traffic matching the speed of the mainline traffic.

Quote from: kalvado on March 12, 2017, 07:04:14 PM
What "keep right" tries to ensure is basically smooth flow on stretches without significant maneuvering.  Merging require gaps - or, in other words, cars moving left while there is still room in right lane. Probably wasn't that big of an issue when traffic was lighter.  But once flow is more than 2000 VPH, keep right means no merges.

Volume doesn't make a difference if you're leaving a proper following distance (4-second rule ring a bell?). Unless traffic is at a standstill, there should always be a gap.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

kalvado

Quote from: DaBigE on March 12, 2017, 07:44:22 PM
Volume doesn't make a difference if you're leaving a proper following distance (4-second rule ring a bell?). Unless traffic is at a standstill, there should always be a gap.
4 second? I assume it may be the rule in rural midwest- but we have 2 second rule in NY, and harsh reality we face is about 1-1.2 second. Gap of 2 second is usually filled under  "keep right no matter what!" motto.
In fact there was a thread over here where people (I believe from NY-PHL-DC area) that this is the proper way to go.

1995hoo

When I took behind-the-wheel, they taught two seconds below 40 mph and four seconds (which is a HUGE GAP) above 40 mph. Most people apply carlengths anyway.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kalvado

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 12, 2017, 08:33:06 PM
When I took behind-the-wheel, they taught two seconds below 40 mph and four seconds (which is a HUGE GAP) above 40 mph. Most people apply carlengths anyway.
4 seconds gap corresponds to less than 1000 VPH lane capacity. Actual number is about 2000-2200.. Probably 4 seconds is leftover of the era when 0.15 BAC was still legal.
NY recommends 2 s, 4 seconds for " bad weather and when following large trucks:  https://dmv.ny.gov/about-dmv/chapter-8-defensive-driving

kphoger

What I've noticed in Wichita recently is people accelerating to 10 mph over the speed limit in the acceleration lane and then expecting everyone to move out of their way when they want to "merge" in.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

texaskdog

Anything titled "traffic calming" is a bad thing.

Tired of morons who budge.  Just get in when you have the chance.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2017, 05:24:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 12, 2017, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 12, 2017, 05:07:51 PM
Maybe installing a traffic calming light at the part where the two acceleration lanes converge?  It seemed to work pretty well keeping things flowing on the freeways in Phoenix during rush hour.  The only neglible effect was that sometimes the calming device would back traffic up onto a surface street. 

?

This involves merging into a highway. What would the purpose of a traffic calming light be for when you want traffic to go faster to merge onto an already fast highway?

I'm aware, look at the Loop 101 merge lanes in Scottsdale.  Specifically the ramps and merge lanes from Pima Road south of Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd.  There is two lanes on the ramp that converge into a single merge lane.  Where the two lanes meet on the ramp there are traffic lights that were specifically put in to stop people from doing what the OP described since the light only lets one car on at a time during rush hour.  Granted I'm aware that the OP didn't specify the route, so I suppose it could be anything from freeway down to a normal surface route design.  Given that the OP stated "highway" I took it to mean either a freeway or an expressway.

Edit:  In regards to the post that just came in, ADOT always called it traffic calming but yes it would be a ramp meter.

Ramp meters aren't calming devices...and I would hope ADOT didn't confuse the 2 (I'd like to see a link if they in fact called them traffic calming devices).  Ramp meters are designed to limit traffic entering the highway by keeping the highway moving at highway speeds (pretty much the opposite of calming traffic down!).

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 12, 2017, 08:33:06 PM
When I took behind-the-wheel, they taught two seconds below 40 mph and four seconds (which is a HUGE GAP) above 40 mph. Most people apply carlengths anyway.

Speed shouldn't matter.  2 seconds at 20 mph would be about 2 car lengths.  2 seconds at 70 mph would be about 7 car lengths. 




PColumbus73

Here in my area, the problem isn't people merging onto freeways/interstates. The SCDOT often adds accel lanes at intersections with major divided highways ( like US 17 & 501 here in the Myrtle Beach area). The reason I stated that people seem to be using them wrong is because, as I mentioned above, is that drivers with inch along in the accel lane at somewhere around 5 MPH meanwhile trying to find a gap in traffic doing at around 55 MPH.

I think a lot of it is due to driver impatience, US 17 in the Myrtle Beach area has an AADT of around 35,000. I also think inattentive drivers are part of the problem in situations where traffic is not as heavy.

texaskdog

Meters are awful.  I remember I'd get stuck for 5 minutes on a 20 minute drive going to school so I just found the entrance with no meter every morning.

sparker

One of the worst merging situation in the San Jose area (and we've certainly got a shitload of 'em!) is I-280 to SB CA 87.  It functions like any other small stack, with both directions of 280 feeding into a common ramp -- but is complicated by having to endure a left-hand merge onto the ramp from SB 87 in order for traffic in that direction to access the Alma Street offramp.  A PITA during off-peak hours, but actually dangerous during the evening rush.  To get to Alma (which functions as the only ramp for the next couple of miles -- and the primary area ramp for Willow Glen and the south downtown area) one needs to merge with the traffic coming from both directions of 280, and which merged only a hundred yards or so prior to the LH Alma merge -- but then shift to the RH lane to exit -- but there is a solid "do not cross" line that extends through the LH merge point and doesn't become a dashed line for a good quarter mile.  Exceptionally bad planning -- but typical of this section of CA 87 (which seemed to be designed more to placate the adjoining neighborhoods than to provide a safe & efficient facility). 

kalvado

Quote from: PColumbus73 on March 13, 2017, 10:18:36 PM
Here in my area, the problem isn't people merging onto freeways/interstates. The SCDOT often adds accel lanes at intersections with major divided highways ( like US 17 & 501 here in the Myrtle Beach area). The reason I stated that people seem to be using them wrong is because, as I mentioned above, is that drivers with inch along in the accel lane at somewhere around 5 MPH meanwhile trying to find a gap in traffic doing at around 55 MPH.

I think a lot of it is due to driver impatience, US 17 in the Myrtle Beach area has an AADT of around 35,000. I also think inattentive drivers are part of the problem in situations where traffic is not as heavy.
I assume you're talking about light-controlled intersections? Then IMHO that just illustrates that dense traffic doesn't have enough merge opportunities. This is not about technique, this is more about a design concept not fully applicable to existing conditions, such as traffic volume. Doesn't mean it has to be removed if extra accidents are not created, it probably works just fine outside peak periods.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.