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Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

Started by mukade, June 25, 2011, 08:55:31 AM

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TheCleanDemon

Quote from: I-55 on May 14, 2024, 12:24:24 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 14, 2024, 06:19:53 AMOf course any interstate will bring sprawl, what won't I-69 be different? Indy is a big city with a large metro area. Of course developers will take advantage of the I-69 corridor now it's being extended to build more mixed use developments.

Look at Muncie to the Northeast. I-69 fueled that city's growth providing a direct link to Indy and its closest suburbs. The Southwest side ain't any different.

As a more recent example, Fishers has grown by 1,000% since 1990 from less than 10,000 to around 100,000. Noblesville is up 400% in the same timespan, both fueled by access to Interstate 69. Anderson and Muncie have been in slow-steady decline, though I think Anderson will recover when Indy sprawl covers all the land between SR 37 and Anderson.

Shelbyville has been on 74 for what, 50 years(?), and has never experienced a population explosion. If I-69 was fueling growth in Fishers, why didn't Fishers explode in 1971 when the highway was built?

No doubt, Fishers and Noblesville benefit from I-69 but their growth has a lot more to do with being adjacent to the more populated and affluent part of Marion County.


Rick Powell

Quote from: TheCleanDemon on May 15, 2024, 10:50:29 AMShelbyville has been on 74 for what, 50 years(?), and has never experienced a population explosion. If I-69 was fueling growth in Fishers, why didn't Fishers explode in 1971 when the highway was built?

No doubt, Fishers and Noblesville benefit from I-69 but their growth has a lot more to do with being adjacent to the more populated and affluent part of Marion County.

One of my favorite examples of "no sprawl" interchanges are Exits 97 and 105 on I-80 in IL. They are 67 and 75 miles from downtown Chicago but no services are available at either interchange and there are just a few scattered buildings nearby. No water or sewer lines have been extended to either location, which might be some of the reason neither has taken off in the 64 years of their existence.

mgk920

Even he fact that there are no interchanges on US 10 between WI 76 and US 45 west of the Appleton, WI area.  This was purposely laid out as such in the late 1990s (opened in 2003) to prevent premature development of that area.

Mike

ITB

#5203
Yesterday, I motored to Indy for another look-see and to meet BigRigSteve of BigRigTravels at the Flying J truck stop near the Harding Street/I-465 interchange. Had a very nice chat with Steve. He was hanging out at the truck stop after making a delivery in Mooresville. Steve's been doing live broadcasts of his travels for 17 years. Several others do likewise now but Steve was a pioneer. And as technology advanced, so did his broadcasts. He now broadcasts with Starlink and has a very nice newly redesigned webpage.

Before we go to the pictures, a short update of the status of construction is in order. Although the weather has been less than ideal so far in May, construction has been steadily progressing. In many instances, crews have been working nights, whether on bridges, paving, or earthwork. While work is underway throughout the project area, it appears the focus right now is on paving and completing the eastbound lanes of I-465 between the Mann Road overpass and the new eastbound bridge over Bluff Road. When that work finishes, probably in two or three weeks, westbound traffic will be shifted to the new pavement.

Bear in mind, please, I am in not associated with the project in any way. I just snap pictures. Without further adieu, to the pictures. Photos were taken Wednesday, May 15, 2024.


On the southwest side of Indianapolis, looking east toward I-465 from the Mann Road overpass. In this vicinity, the eastbound travel lanes have been split to allow work to proceed on the last remaining unpaved strip of eastbound roadway. The thick median barrier wall was slipformed paved last week and the week prior.


Zoomed in shot as a shower was passing through.


Looking east toward I-465 from Thompson Road about a half mile east of the Mann Road overpass.


Turning around, the view looking west.


Long range perspective from the Mann Road overpass.


Closer look.


Another zoomed in shot. The shower was moving in my direction, so I packed up quickly and hustled off the overpass.


Again, looking east.

As I've mentioned before, the construction to add lanes to I-465 and the building of the I-69/I-465 interchange go hand in hand. The I-69 interchange won't be fully opened to traffic until the new, widened westbound I-465 roadway between I-65 and I-70 completes. And that's at least six months away. I hedge a little there and say "fully" because it's possible, I guess, the I-465E to I-69S movement could be opened before the other movements do. We'll see.

 

westerninterloper

Quote from: TheCleanDemon on May 15, 2024, 10:50:29 AM
Quote from: I-55 on May 14, 2024, 12:24:24 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 14, 2024, 06:19:53 AMOf course any interstate will bring sprawl, what won't I-69 be different? Indy is a big city with a large metro area. Of course developers will take advantage of the I-69 corridor now it's being extended to build more mixed use developments.

Look at Muncie to the Northeast. I-69 fueled that city's growth providing a direct link to Indy and its closest suburbs. The Southwest side ain't any different.

As a more recent example, Fishers has grown by 1,000% since 1990 from less than 10,000 to around 100,000. Noblesville is up 400% in the same timespan, both fueled by access to Interstate 69. Anderson and Muncie have been in slow-steady decline, though I think Anderson will recover when Indy sprawl covers all the land between SR 37 and Anderson.

Shelbyville has been on 74 for what, 50 years(?), and has never experienced a population explosion. If I-69 was fueling growth in Fishers, why didn't Fishers explode in 1971 when the highway was built?

No doubt, Fishers and Noblesville benefit from I-69 but their growth has a lot more to do with being adjacent to the more populated and affluent part of Marion County.

I worked on a research project in Shelbyville about 25 years ago, and interviewed a lot of local leaders - all of them were talking about how to draw growth their direction; they lamented how the town's doctors all lived in Carmel, and the town had a "hick" reputation; no high-end housing being built there. We examined the community's reception to new Hispanic residents, it was quite eye-opening, but as I've learned over the years, nothing particularly unique to that town.
Nostalgia: Indiana's State Religion


tdindy88

Yeah, all of I-465 is now using the new eastbound lanes between Mann Road and the new I-69 interchange. I suspect more will be shifted over this weekend including over Harding Street and Bluff Road. It also appears the new eastbound 465 bridge over Meridian Street is finished, or about finished and they are preparing to lay the concrete for the eastbound lanes in that area.

ITB

#5207
With the recent shift of westbound traffic to the eastbound lanes from just west of the White River bridge work zone the project has now entered a new phase. It's a major inflection point. Work will now get underway on widening and reconstructing the westbound lanes of I-465. As noted above, a second shift of westbound traffic to new eastbound pavement — from near the bridges over Bluff Road to the I-69 interchange — will likely happen this weekend or early next week.

Here's a few screen grabs from INDOT traffic cameras. Soon are recent, others a couple weeks old.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Zoomed in shot looking east toward I-465 from the Mann Road camera, showing westbound traffic running on new eastbound roadway pavement. Work to take down the westbound bridge over Harmon Ditch is now underway. Unfortunately, that work area is blocked by the spanning sign. Of interest, note how far away from the current westbound lanes the posts of that sign are located. That gives an idea of how much the westbound roadway will be widened.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Further east, looking east toward I-465 from just east of the mainline bridges over Bluff Road. With a strip of rebar in place, paving will soon get underway. When this stretch of eastbound roadway completes, eastbound traffic will be shifted over, and westbound traffic will be transitioned to the pavement where eastbound traffic currently runs.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Here's the view in the other direction. Although the picture is two weeks old, it shows where westbound traffic will be shifted to the new eastbound pavement.


INDOT Traffic Camera
This view, a zoomed in shot from a camera near US 31, show where eastbound traffic is shifted back to old eastbound pavement. On the left, construction is nearly complete on the new eastbound mainline bridge over S. Meridian Street.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Zoomed in shot of the eastbound I-465 bridge over Bluff Road. That unpaved strip of rebar is now paved, setting the stage for the upcoming westbound traffic shift.


INDOT Traffic Camera
From the other direction, here's a zoomed in view of that pavement looking east from a camera near Harding Street.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Long range view looking west from near the US 31 interchange.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Closer look, showing construction of the new westbound bridge over Lick Creek. When that bridge section completes, westbound traffic will be shifted to it, and construction will then get underway on building the other half of the bridge.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Further east, the view looking east near where the Louisville and Indiana RR track crosses over I-465. Note how the right shoulders narrow as they pass under the overpass. In time, all the pavement in this area will be rubblized and replaced with new concrete pavement.


INDOT Traffic Camera
To the south on SR 37, crews have been paving the short section north of Southport Road. This is largely complete now, though another layer of asphalt will probably be put down prior to the opening of the road.


INDOT Traffic Camera
From a few days earlier, working well into the night.


INDOT Traffic Camera
South of the Southport Road interchange, lime work to harden the roadbed of the future southbound lanes. This is last section of SR 37 to be upgraded to I-69. It's a short stretch roughly 3/4 of a mile. Paving with asphalt will likely get underway this month.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Night work on the I-465W to I-69S flyover.


INDOT Traffic Camera
From a couple weeks ago, a shot looking west toward the approach ramp to the I-465W to I-69S flyover. Adjacent to that unpaved ramp is the new westbound entrance ramp from Harding Street.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Here's the view 11 days later, showing the new strip of eastbound pavement and where westbound traffic will soon be transitioned to.


INDOT Traffic Camera
This image, looking northeast, shows the new eastbound pavement of I-465, where both westbound and eastbound traffic is currently placed. On the right is the ramp from I-465E to Harding Street, while in the background is the new westbound entrance ramp from Harding Street, which looks like its being paved with concrete. The sliver of bridge pictured is the I-465W to I-69S flyover. Of note, crews have been putting down pavement for the new westbound lanes of I-465 in this area. That pavement won't be receiving any traffic anytime soon, and likely won't until the project nears completion.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Nighttime shot looking east from near the Harding Street interchange. What? No traffic on I-465? Don't see that everyday.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Turning around, the view looking west. Hmm ... one car. Strange night.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Another grab from the Mann Road camera just prior to the westbound traffic shift. Those RoadSafe guys on the right seemed rather nonchalant considering that traffic was coming through at good speed. I guess they're used to it. Me, I'd be on pins and needles.

Interstate 69 Fan

Still hard to believe that all this will be fully complete in 6 months. Going to love the finished product though, going to be well worth the wait.
Apparently I’m a fan of I-69.  Who knew.

ITB

Quote from: Interstate 69 Fan on June 06, 2024, 06:09:30 PMStill hard to believe that all this will be fully complete in 6 months. Going to love the finished product though, going to be well worth the wait.

To be sure, there's a lot of work still remaining. Since they're working on an accelerated schedule, we'll probably see a lot of double shift work, a lot of night work. With one exception, the new, wider westbound mainline bridges will go up quickly — in two or three months, instead of the usual six or eight. The exception is the span over Harding Street, which will have a center bent. That's going to take more time. There's a lot of earthwork that will be undertaken, too, primarily fill, backed by retaining walls. All in all, the project appears to be on schedule. In two or three months, the new westbound lanes will be taking shape, and by fall, paving operations should be in full swing.

ITB


Last night was a big night for the project. The deck pour for the long I-69N to I-465W flyover took place. Crews also worked through the night doing earth and bridge work near Harmon Ditch.

Here's another set of screen grabs from INDOT traffic cameras:


INDOT Traffic Camera
A steady supply of concrete and three pumper trucks allowed the deck pour crew to make good progress as they worked into the night.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Nearing the finish point. Completing this deck pour is a major milestone for the project.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Zoomed in shot from the Mann Road camera. Blocked by the sign is the Harmon Ditch work zone, where a new bridge will be built. Further back is the White River bridge work zone. The distance between the two work areas is about a half mile.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Around 8 pm the site came alive as the second shift ramped up.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Working well into the night.


INDOT Traffic Camera
Earlier in the day, a paving crew was at work on the eastbound roadway east of the bridge over Bluff Road. In the background is the slipform paver, followed by the texture/cure machine.


INDOT Traffic Camera
And a grab from Thursday evening as a paving crew was again at work on the short segment north of Southport Road. It looks like this is the penultimate layer, to be topped by the surface layer sometime later.



ITB

#5211
Last night, westbound I-465 traffic was successfully transitioned to the new eastbound pavement beginning just east of the bridge over Bluff Road. This configuration will be in place until the reconstructed westbound lanes complete, including the tie-ins to the I-69 interchange ramps.

Also, yesterday, I made another trip to the construction zone to check things out. Photos were taken Sunday, June 9, 2024, unless otherwise noted.


On the south side of Indianapolis, constructing the piers for the new, replacement bridge that will carry westbound I-465 over the White River; looking east.


Looking east toward the White River work zone.


Mid-range perspective. The White River is somewhat low due to lack of recent precipitation.


Again, looking east toward the work zone.


Turning around, the former westbound lanes of I-465. In the background where the crane is located is Harmon Ditch. Another westbound bridge is under construction there as well. From what I can tell, they're milling off an asphalt overlay then rubblizing the old concrete pavement underneath. The equipment mounted on the truck on the right, I believe, does the rubblization. It's worth noting that westbound traffic in this area was just shifted to the new eastbound pavement the weekend before last.


Another view. In the background, just a sliver visible, is the I-69N to I-465 flyover, which received its deck pour last Friday night.


Again, looking west. That's a thick slab of concrete pavement, which was probably was put down in the 70s or 80s. It's very possible it's two separate slabs, considering how it's being rubblized. Maybe when the first slab began to degrade they simply topped it with another slab. Note as well that there's no rebar.


Dynamic Message Sign spanning the old westbound lanes about a mile east of the Mann Road overpass.


One more of the White River bridge. I imagine they'll start bringing in and placing the beams in July.

More photos to come.




ITB


Second set. Again, photos were taken Sunday, June 9, 2024.

We'll start off where we left off with the previous set, moving from the White River bridge work zone toward Harmon Ditch, about a half mile to the west.


Looking west toward the Harmon Ditch work zone, where pile driving is underway for the new, replacement that carry the westbound lanes of I-465. The area on the right is going to be built up. That's my expectations. Might not happen to the extent I think it will, but I'm not going to bet against myself. For reference, note where the foundation of the overhead sign is located. That's where median barrier wall of I-465 will be. Now picture fitting in four lanes of westbound I-465, plus shoulders. Uh huh.   


Turning around, a mid-range view looking back toward the White River construction zone.


Structural frame and catwalk of the Dynamic Message Sign, which was pictured in the first set.


Harmon Ditch and the temporary multi-tube culvert put in place to allow heavy equipment to cross the creek, er, ditch. On the left are newly driven piles for the new, replacement bridge. Just below are the piles of the old bridge. Most likely they won't be removed.


Close up of the piles which will anchor the east abutment of the new bridge. If the pile markings are fully complete and can be trusted, the pile on the left was pounded 46 feet into the ground. Note the piles of the old bridge. Skinny little things, weren't they? The entrance ramp from Mann Road to eastbound I-465 can be discerned in the background.


Link-Belt crane with attached pile driver rigging at Harmon Ditch.


Another view of Harmon Ditch and the recently built bridge for the eastbound lanes of I-465; looking south. Partially visible in the background in another bridge, that being for Thompson Road. From the looks of the abutment it's probably 100 years old.


At this location, I-465 will be nearly going through this guy's backyard. That's the frame of the Dynamic Message Sign, pictured above. The big post to the left is for traffic cameras. Gotta wonder if the owner of the property was offered a buyout. Maybe a sound wall is planned, but exactly where? Not a lot of room here as the westbound lanes will probably come close to the sign foundation.


Sitting ready to be dragged over and pounded, more piles for the Harmon Ditch bridge; looking southeast. More likely they'll be transported by a front end loader with a fork attachment.


The machine being used to mill the asphalt overlay on I-465, a Wirtgen W210 Fi.


Sapphuby

That is awfully close to that guy's backyard, wow. I don't know how they're gonna install that sound wall without putting it right on the property line and leaving no room for anything else, because there's almost nothing to work with. Goodness.

mgk920

Quote from: Sapphuby on June 11, 2024, 03:38:27 PMThat is awfully close to that guy's backyard, wow. I don't know how they're gonna install that sound wall without putting it right on the property line and leaving no room for anything else, because there's almost nothing to work with. Goodness.

He or she was likely a willing, perhaps even an eager seller, for whom that money came in very handy.

Mike

Rick Powell

Quote from: Sapphuby on June 11, 2024, 03:38:27 PMThat is awfully close to that guy's backyard, wow. I don't know how they're gonna install that sound wall without putting it right on the property line and leaving no room for anything else, because there's almost nothing to work with. Goodness.

In addition to being technically feasible to construct and be effective at the desired noise reduction, a sound barrier must be economically feasible according to a threshold set per affected property. It is especially tough to economically justify a sound barrier for a single "single family home" property, with the costs of noise barriers being in the $100/square foot and up range nowadays; sound barriers for dense subdivisions and apartment buildings are usually way more easy to justify due to the number of "receptors" per wall section.

Rick Powell

#5216
Looks like the median barrier wall is now in place north and south of Southport Road interchange.

https://tinyurl.com/mrxbae6r
https://tinyurl.com/ykwn9zpd

tdindy88

Speaking of sound barriers, I notice there isn't any planned for Sunshine Gardens, a neighborhood just south and west of the massive I-465/I-69 interchange complex. I'd be curious to know what lead to the decision to not have one there.

davewiecking

Density? Compare that development with the one along Gazebo Drive just east of S. Meridian.

Where is "that guy's backyard"?

silverback1065

Quote from: tdindy88 on June 11, 2024, 04:20:12 PMSpeaking of sound barriers, I notice there isn't any planned for Sunshine Gardens, a neighborhood just south and west of the massive I-465/I-69 interchange complex. I'd be curious to know what lead to the decision to not have one there.

I thought that entire neighborhood got leveled for this project.  :hmmm:

Sapphuby

Quote from: davewiecking on June 11, 2024, 06:48:34 PMDensity? Compare that development with the one along Gazebo Drive just east of S. Meridian.

Where is "that guy's backyard"?
Looks like 4945 Foltz Street. The clapboard color and exterior match up. On a side note, Google Maps now has May 2024 street view of I-465 EB through the work zone area.

Rick Powell

Quote from: tdindy88 on June 11, 2024, 04:20:12 PMSpeaking of sound barriers, I notice there isn't any planned for Sunshine Gardens, a neighborhood just south and west of the massive I-465/I-69 interchange complex. I'd be curious to know what lead to the decision to not have one there.

Several things go into it. The new road must meet the threshold for absolute noise as well as change in noise for the adjacent land use. A noise wall must be cost effective (cost per receptor property), it must be technically feasible to build, including achieving a minimum sound reduction difference. If a wall will only provide 1 or 2 dB of sound reduction it is still not considered technically feasible even if it is constructable. There are also new rules that a majority of the affected property owners or renters must be in favor of the wall, and can veto its construction even if it is warranted by policy, cost effective, and technically feasible.

Henry

Quote from: Sapphuby on June 11, 2024, 08:09:47 PM
Quote from: davewiecking on June 11, 2024, 06:48:34 PMDensity? Compare that development with the one along Gazebo Drive just east of S. Meridian.

Where is "that guy's backyard"?
Looks like 4945 Foltz Street. The clapboard color and exterior match up. On a side note, Google Maps now has May 2024 street view of I-465 EB through the work zone area.
Found it! (although the address shows up as 4998 Foltz Street)

I agree, that's way too close for comfort there. In fact, I would expect Foltz Street to be truncated to its last intersection (Viewside Drive) as the houses on that block are bought up and demolished to make room for the project.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

cjw2001

Quote from: Henry on June 12, 2024, 09:46:59 PM
Quote from: Sapphuby on June 11, 2024, 08:09:47 PM
Quote from: davewiecking on June 11, 2024, 06:48:34 PMDensity? Compare that development with the one along Gazebo Drive just east of S. Meridian.

Where is "that guy's backyard"?
Looks like 4945 Foltz Street. The clapboard color and exterior match up. On a side note, Google Maps now has May 2024 street view of I-465 EB through the work zone area.
Found it! (although the address shows up as 4998 Foltz Street)

I agree, that's way too close for comfort there. In fact, I would expect Foltz Street to be truncated to its last intersection (Viewside Drive) as the houses on that block are bought up and demolished to make room for the project.
The Indy GIS system still shows the parcels as privately owned as of today.

ITB


The house pictured in the photo is indeed 4945 Foltz St. The right of way of I-465 appears to come right up to the edge of the property line of not only 4945, but also six other adjacent residential properties. Surprisingly, no private property in this area, it seems, had to be acquired to move forward with the widening project. As such, INDOT probably wasn't legally obligated to offer compensation or full buyouts to any of the property owners.

It's worth noting as well that these houses, at least some, have probably been there for 50 or 60 years, if not longer. Moreover, the home owners were well aware when purchasing their properties that I-465 was their neighbor, and that, going forward, it was a permanent relationship, warts and all. The only change that is happening now is that the new westbound lanes, when complete, will be about 20 feet closer than in the past. Not the end of the world by any stretch, but, to be sure, not exactly a quality-of-life enhancement either.


Google Maps
A pre-construction overhead view of the area under discussion. The sign foundation to the south of 4945 Foltz Street has been repositioned close to where the vehicles are located. A lot of foliage has now been removed. The structure next to the vehicles is a garage, so technically the interstate will be, euphemistically, almost in the side yard, not the backyard.


This image, looking east toward the White River bridge work zone, depicts how much wider the westbound roadway will be. The truck is located where the westbound right shoulder used to be. Eyeballing it, it seems the road will be widened about 16 to 20 feet, right up to the retaining wall.


Here, again, is the image that got the talk going. In person, I can assure, I-465 seems so close. I was stunned when I first took in the scene a few months ago.

On reconsideration, what I think is going to happen here is the westbound lanes will be expanded to at least the edge of that concrete block. There will probably be a short MSE retaining wall built to support the edge of the road. Next to that wall, between the private property line and the wall, a drainage swale of sorts will be formed, with a concrete-lined gully about 4 or 5 feet wide in the center. That's what was done in this area on the south side of the eastbound lanes. And I imagine that's the plan for the westbound lanes too.

 



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