PA Turnpike News

[PHLBOS]

What always interested me in the older signs you linked was that Philadelphia always appeared to be an addition, the slat Philly was added on was a slightly different shade of green, and you could confirm the addition at the back of the sign.

The Philadelphia additions to the southbound I-476 signs were in response to complaints from those heading south from Lansdale, Quakertown or Lehigh Valley that see a Philadelphia message at the entrance ramps and then are greeted with Chester, New Jersey, Harrisburg & Norristown (at the time) when approaching Mid-County & I-276.  Granted, the PTC rushed & did a half-*ssed job in placing the additional destination on the BGS' (the 2-mile advance BGS along I-276 westbound missed this edit); but, nonetheless, that's how it went down.

I'd be curious to know if there ever was a supplemental Philadelphia sign along the southbound Extension (then-PA 9) prior to the Mid County interchange being constructed?  The old Extension/E-W Turnpike interchange was simply a trumpet type.

I've seen many instances of left-justified signs, but did not readily recall right justifies.

That's because there are more right-lane exits than there are left-lane exits.

In a somewhat-related note, I noted a lot of diagrammatic signs on the GS Parkway that justified text similar to the new southbound Extension signs.

If it's the BGS I'm thinking of along the GSP (northbound approaching Exit 155P), such only involves a single-line destination listing, not a double-line destination listing.

The only other time, I've seen right-justified on a multi-line destination diagrammatic for the left ramp or through traffic was either when one line was only 2 to 3 letters shorter than the other and/or when one listing was replaced after the BGS was erected; such was the case for the Columbus Blvd. diagrammatic BGS' along I-95 South in Philly (the BGS' originally had Delaware Ave. or Avenue in the listing). 

In general & IMHO, when one text line is significantly shorter than the other (like the Philadelphia-Chester example for I-476 South); it's usually better to have the two destination lines center-justified with respect to each other.

[Flyer78]

Ok, finally got some usable pictures from the new signs in this area.

New advance sign for the Mid-County/I-276 Interchange on I-476 South:



Close-up of the bottom of the diagram stem, showing lane drop (from 2 mile advance).



At the split:



===== MAINLINE PHOTOS =====

Exit 333 On-Ramp Split: (The over-staying-its-welcome PA 9 shield is removed)   



I-276 East, Hope Lodge State Historic Site in Serif Font:


I-276 East Exit 339, odd alignment for Ambler: (Not a new sign)


I-276 West Exit Sequence Sign (Fixed out-of-order Norristown sequence)


I-276 West Exit 333/I-476 Advance (Replaces this sign with the double I-476 shields)


I-276 West Approx 1/2 Mile from last gantry (note continued use of "This Lane")


I-276 West Ramps to Exit 20/I-476 North



I-276 Exit 333 ALL CAPS exit signs (replaces Mixed-Case Version)

[Zeffy]

At least it looks like PennDOT has got the memo on how to properly use Clearview (for the I-476 signs), but then I guess they lost it again on the mainline. The last sign IMO is pretty damn ugly.

[Flyer78]

I was very surprised to see the all-caps signs off Exit 333. You can't even point to in-kind replacement...

[PHLBOS]

Ok, finally got some usable pictures from the new signs in this area.

New advance sign for the Mid-County/I-276 Interchange on I-476 South:

Is it me or the 1 MILE notation should be more centered with respect to the stem of the arrow as opposed to the center of the signboard?  I didn't notice that when I saw that BGS a week-and-a-half ago.

At the split:

I have to wonder if the I-276 West BGS was a complete replacement or just an alteration of the earlier-mounted BGS with the scrunched Series D numerals and the NEXT RIGHT text at the bottom?  My guess would be the latter.

===== MAINLINE PHOTOS =====

Exit 333 On-Ramp Split: (The over-staying-its-welcome PA 9 shield is removed)

At Last!  The misleading I-76 West message that's been there for over 20 years has finally been corrected with the more proper & consistent I-276 West message.  Also, I-276 shields in the proper Series C font.  BTW, the Clearview font for the lower-case lettering is a clear give-away that both BGS panels are brand new.  When that pipe gantry was first erected a few years ago, the older early 90s-vintage BGS' were simply transferred onto the newer gantry.

Kudos for the proper Series C numerals for all I-shields; rebuke for using Clearview for the all-caps cardinals.  Also, the Allentown & New Jersey listings should be center-justified with respect to each other like it was on the BGS it replaced.

Given the extra length of bare posts; I would've either slid the panels higher and/or sawed off the excess posts.  Such seems to be a common PTC & PennDOT thing as of late w/overhead BGS installations.

I-276 East, Hope Lodge State Historic Site in Serif Font:

That's an interesting font.

I-276 East Exit 339, odd alignment for Ambler: (Not a new sign)

One has to wonder whether a different northbound 309 destination was originally selected but Ambler was an 11th-hour change?  Since I never saw the predecessor (pre-1980s) BGS' for the I-276 stretch; I can't be 100% sure of this.

I-276 West Exit Sequence Sign (Fixed out-of-order Norristown sequence)

I'm guessing that whoever designed the BGS' along I-276 is not the same one who designed the BGS' along I-476.  The former apparently didn't get the memo regarding the restricted use of the Clearview font.  Man, just when one thought that the PTC finally got it right; one sees this.

I-276 West Exit 333/I-476 Advance (Replaces this sign with the double I-476 shields)

The Clearview all-caps & numerals aside, I'm extremely surprised that Philadelphia is not included in this BGS like it was on its predecessor BGS; given the static PTC received for not originally including it 22 years ago (yes, the previous BGS was that old).

I-276 West Approx 1/2 Mile from last gantry (note continued use of "This Lane")

Is it me or are the size of those destination lettering larger than the ones at the Exit 333 toll plaza?  Use the I-276 West BGS' for visual comparison.

I-276 West Ramps to Exit 20/I-476 North

Fail on several levels:

1.  The Philadelphia/Chester text should be center-justified (remember, the previous BGS was altered to include Philadelphia, that's why it looked sloppy).

2.  I didn't comment on such for its predecessor BGS but I will comment on it now for the new one: the EXIT 20 tab should be mounted on the left top of the panel, since it's a left lane turn/exit.

3.  The fore-mentioned non-conforming uses of the Clearview font (caps, numerals).

4.  Either the destination font (& Northeast Extension label) needs to a shorter height or the I-476 shields need to be larger.  See the earlier-posted diagrammatic BGS for the proper shield and font proportions.

I-276 Exit 333 ALL CAPS exit signs (replaces Mixed-Case Version)

Ugh!  WHY?????   
The I-476 shield needs to be bigger as well.

Since KEEP RIGHT is now used instead of NEXT RIGHT for the I-476 South message; I would've used KEEP LEFT instead of the downward arrow for the Plymouth Rd. BGS.  There's certainly enough room for that message.

At least it looks like PennDOT has got the memo on how to properly use Clearview (for the I-476 signs), but then I guess they lost it again on the mainline. The last sign IMO is pretty damn ugly.

The signs are PTC not PennDOT.  Although, the original Plymouth Rd. & SOUTH 476 BGS' were probably PennDOT spec'd; the new ones are definitely PTC given the colored pipe gantry.

[Flyer78]

The legends of all the I-276 overhead signs seems much larger than the legend at the Exit 333-split or the 476 BGS examples...

With the Ambler destination, I wonder if that was original and Philly was added?

Also, didn't notice until now, the split at Exit 333 no longer shows exit numbers.

[odditude]

I-276 East Exit 339, odd alignment for Ambler: (Not a new sign)

One has to wonder whether a different northbound 309 destination was originally selected but Ambler was an 11th-hour change?  Since I never saw the predecessor (pre-1980s) BGS' for the I-276 stretch; I can't be 100% sure of this.

it's been Ambler forever. everything's center-aligned except for "Philadelphia."

[PHLBOS]

I-276 East Exit 339, odd alignment for Ambler: (Not a new sign)

One has to wonder whether a different northbound 309 destination was originally selected but Ambler was an 11th-hour change?  Since I never saw the predecessor (pre-1980s) BGS' for the I-276 stretch; I can't be 100% sure of this.

it's been Ambler forever. everything's center-aligned except for "Philadelphia."

Fair enough, but given that this BGS is an actual exit BGS (as opposed to an advance BGS); Ambler should have been center-justified with respect to the Philadelphia listing and not the signboard itself.

[odditude]

]it's been Ambler forever. everything's center-aligned except for "Philadelphia."

Fair enough, but given that this BGS is an actual exit BGS (as opposed to an advance BGS); Ambler should have been center-justified with respect to the Philadelphia listing and not the signboard itself.

not going to argue that it's ugly as hell. i'd prefer that the alignment for both "Ambler" and the 309 shield should be centered with respect to "Philadelphia."

[Flyer78]

The signs are PTC not PennDOT.  Although, the original Plymouth Rd. & SOUTH 476 BGS' were probably PennDOT spec'd; the new ones are definitely PTC given the colored pipe gantry.

I agree these are PTC signs, but it appears that PennDOT did play around with Pipes recently (July 2011 Streetview shows the old signs) on US 202 in West Chester. Newer US 202 works in Malvern/Great Valley area use traditional PennDOT supports. Not sure if it was  test, mistake, or something simply done for the hell of it. At least it's not all caps.

Speaking of:

Since KEEP RIGHT is now used instead of NEXT RIGHT for the I-476 South message; I would've used KEEP LEFT instead of the downward arrow for the Plymouth Rd. BGS.  There's certainly enough room for that message.

Agreed. Next Right also made much more sense, given that there is no lane to keep right in.

[odditude]

the new overhead on I-95S at exit 30 (PA-73/Cottman Ave) uses a curved pipe, so PennDOT is definitely not opposed to using them.

[PHLBOS]

I agree these are PTC signs, but it appears that PennDOT did play around with Pipes recently (July 2011 Streetview shows the old signs) on US 202 in West Chester. Newer US 202 works in Malvern/Great Valley area use traditional PennDOT supports. Not sure if it was  test, mistake, or something simply done for the hell of it.

It's possible that PennDOT may be trying/experimenting w/such.

Speaking of:

Since KEEP RIGHT is now used instead of NEXT RIGHT for the I-476 South message; I would've used KEEP LEFT instead of the downward arrow for the Plymouth Rd. BGS.  There's certainly enough room for that message.

Agreed. Next Right also made much more sense, given that there is no lane to keep right in.

Personally, and I felt this way even with the previous signage, the gantry should be placed closer to the split and the BGS for I-476 South should be an exit-style sign with an angled right-arrow.  With that in mind, I'd place ground-mounted BGS for the advance movements; maybe even a simple diagrammatic since the lane splits in two, MUTCD be damned.

Truth be told, signage for the entire Norristown interchange should be completely rethought IMHO.  While the current BGS with the redundant Norristown notations (one for the interchange/toll plaza name, the other for the destination) was fine pre-476 South & Plymouth Road connector (the ramps used to split for Germantown Pike east & westbound); but given the ramp connections/alterations done 22 years ago, using Norristown as a Germantown Pike destination no longer makes sense.  As mentioned earlier, one can now use I-476 South to Ridge Pike (Exit 18) as a means to get to the Borough of Norristown (Germantown Pike doesn't even touch the Norristown border).

For the Exit 333 BGS' along I-276 Westbound, I would use Plymouth Mtg. as the destination but keep the Norristown toll plaza name.  For Exit 333 BGS' along I-276 Eastbound, I would include (TO) 476 SOUTH & even Chester along with Plymouth Mtg. 

Yes, I'm aware that the Exit 326/Valley Forge BGS' along the eastbound Turnpike include I-476 shields (such were erected prior to 476 connecting to the Turnpike); I would move those to a supplemental BGS and include both Exit 326 & 333 as options for I-476 and place US 422 shields on the main BGS' similar to what was recently done on the westbound BGS'.

For the BGS' beyond the toll plaza, I would use Plymouth Mtg. for the Plymouth Road BGS and keep the 476 SOUTH Chester BGS message basically in tact.

the new overhead on I-95S at exit 30 (PA-73/Cottman Ave) uses a curved pipe, so PennDOT is definitely not opposed to using them.

It's interesting that the curved pipe used for that gantry is not painted.  Also, it's the only BGS for that interchange that doesn't include the Rhawn St. listing.

[Chris19001]

Damn, the sign bugs me wasn't shown.  There is a new overhead sign on 276 West right at the 476 interchange that suggests traffic going to 476 South (Blue Route) to "Use this lane" and has an arrow pointing straight down into the outer most through lane.  (the fourth lane is an exit only lane they want isolated for traffic towards the NE Extension)  What gets me is the sign placement though, it is RIGHT at the point where Southbound traffic would have leave 276West to the right.  It is bound to trick tons of out of town travellers into staying in that third lane instead of exiting.  If that was the last thing I saw before an exit, it would sure fill me with doubt if I didn't know the area.

[Roadrunner75]

Damn, the sign bugs me wasn't shown.  There is a new overhead sign on 276 West right at the 476 interchange that suggests traffic going to 476 South (Blue Route) to "Use this lane" and has an arrow pointing straight down into the outer most through lane.  (the fourth lane is an exit only lane they want isolated for traffic towards the NE Extension)  What gets me is the sign placement though, it is RIGHT at the point where Southbound traffic would have leave 276West to the right.  It is bound to trick tons of out of town travellers into staying in that third lane instead of exiting.  If that was the last thing I saw before an exit, it would sure fill me with doubt if I didn't know the area.

Do you mean this sign:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.113957,-75.270746&spn=0.000008,0.005472&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.114002,-75.271535&panoid=ShuYv1VIyfrwLIydSbqGqA&cbp=12,254.68,,0,-5.07
Does the arrow under "Chester" now point down instead of indicating the exit to the right?  Regardless, I think this sign could do without the "This Lane" to avoid that type of confusion, since the far right lane is clearly marked as an exit only for the NE Extension.

[PHLBOS]

Damn, the sign bugs me wasn't shown.

That's likely because that particular BGS assembly wasn't replaced just yet.  Most of the comments recently posted were directed towards the new replacement signs.

Does the arrow under "Chester" now point down instead of indicating the exit to the right?  Regardless, I think this sign could do without the "This Lane" to avoid that type of confusion, since the far right lane is clearly marked as an exit only for the NE Extension.

Part of the problem here is that it's a shared lane for both I-276 West & I-476 South traffic.  IMHO, this could be one case where either APL signage or diagrammatics are warranted.

Before the mile-based renumber, it was actually numbered as a mainline I-276 exit, 25A. In fact, wouldn't it make more sense to have Exit 20 A/B be for the exit-to-mainline movements?

I meant to chime on this earlier.  I absolutely agree with you that the I-276 ramps from I-476 South should be assigned as Exits 20B-A and had it not been for the existence of toll plazas/gantries the ramps from I-476 to I-276 would've been signed as Exit 20 (Northbound, current Exits 19-20 would be redesignated as 19A-B)/20B-A (Southbound).  The ramps to I-476 from I-276 would've been signed as Exit 334 (Eastbound) and possibly 334B-A (Westbound).

Unfortunately, the toll plazas exist.  Had PTC signed Mid-County as Exit 334, it would've given heartburn for the 476 southbounders.  The current Exit 20 is hidden until one gets to the actual ramp off I-276 Westbound.  The reason why the PTC went with Exit 20 for Mid-County was probably because they thought that most of the traffic going through that plaza would be from the NE Extension and the fact that there's no direct ramp from I-276 East to Mid-County (one can use the preceeding Norristown exit to get to I-476 South).

Kind of a Damned if one does, damned if one doesn't situation.

[Flyer78]

Damn, the sign bugs me wasn't shown.  There is a new overhead sign on 276 West right at the 476 interchange that suggests traffic going to 476 South (Blue Route) to "Use this lane" and has an arrow pointing straight down into the outer most through lane.  (the fourth lane is an exit only lane they want isolated for traffic towards the NE Extension)  What gets me is the sign placement though, it is RIGHT at the point where Southbound traffic would have leave 276West to the right.  It is bound to trick tons of out of town travellers into staying in that third lane instead of exiting.  If that was the last thing I saw before an exit, it would sure fill me with doubt if I didn't know the area.

This one? Sorry, I had it, just didn't post it...

[Flyer78]

Kind of a Damned if one does, damned if one doesn't situation.

Indeed, and since you are exiting the Turnpike, it makes sense in the Turnpike's Universe. Probably could have satisfied more OCD if all ramps had exit numbers, but that may also had added to confusion. Of course, PennDOT uses exit numbers for Interstate-to-Interstate connections, so...

[cl94]

It's the same as the assembly it replaced and just as confusing. That right there is a perfect spot for an APL. 2 right lanes for I-476, 3 left for I-276 with one of those being an option lane.

[Chris19001]

This one? Sorry, I had it, just didn't post it...

That's the one.  Great shot, but boy that sign is going to get some people exiting late if they see the one just up the ramp showing the split between 476 South & 476 North. (just in frame) 
I didn't like the earlier version particularly either, but this sign and pavement markings just add unnecessary confusion.. 
A shame they couldn't widen the approach to add another full exit only lane with the NE Extention expansion project..

[PHLBOS]

A shame they couldn't widen the approach to add another full exit only lane with the NE Extention expansion project..

IMHO, PTC should've widened it (for another full exit lane) when the Mid-County plaza and the I-476 connection was built 22 years ago.

So it looks like the only reference to Philadelphia for Mid-County (I-476 South) off I-276 West is at the last split; unless a supplemental EXIT 20 Philadelphia or equivalent is planned but not yet erected.  IMHO, the Philly reference is more important for those traveling south on the NE Extension (I-476) than it is for those traveling west on the E-W Turnpike (I-276).

[Flyer78]

I was looking back through various Historic Aerials (linking to 1992, within a year of Mid-County's opening, you can go back to the '70s to see the old NE Extension Trumpet), was curious if before the three-lane widening through to Valley Forge was completed if they might have signed both right lanes as Exit Only... however it is quite clear that even in 1992 three lanes continued through to Norristown exit 333 (old 25).

The older sign at least had a slanted-arrow, giving some indication a right-hand movement is needed. Widening the exit here would be ideal.

A nice change as a result of the Extension widening is that a merge is no longer needed to join I-476 North, which has already improved traffic flow through in this area. Eastbound to Northbound traffic still must merge...

[PHLBOS]

The 1971 aerial looks to show the westbound Turnpike at 3 lanes (for a short distance) approaching the NE Extension interchange with the right lane veering off (no shared lane(s) involved).

My guess is that between the time that the Turnpike was widened (which was done during the 1980s) but prior to the 1992 alterations for Mid-County & I-476; the off-ramp to the northbound Extension was probably still only a single lane ramp and may have not involved a shared lane with the through-traffic.

At the very latest, the westbound shared lane condition dates back to the 1992 alterations.

[cpzilliacus]

After the impromptu N.J. Turnpike meet to look at the new lanes between a point south of Exit 6 and 8A, we (two friends from AAROADS and myself) headed south via the N.J. Turnpike, then west via the N.J. Turnpike's Pennsylvania Turnpike Extension, across the Delaware River, and past the point where the E-W Mainline of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-276) passes under I-95.  There was some construction work going on adjacent to the westbound lanes of I-276 prior to I-95, but not much else. 

The location of the new eastern end of the Turnpike's ticket system was pretty obvious (west of I-95) and two new overpasses have been (re)built over I-276.

We exited the Turnpike at U.S. 1, headed north to the Delaware Expressway (I-95), and headed south toward the span that carries I-95 over I-276.  There was no obvious work going on along I-95.

Rhetorical question - why is it that the N.J. Turnpike Authority was able to plan, engineer and complete a massive widening of their turnpike in much less time than the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission and PennDOT are taking to build part of a (relatively) simple interchange?

And of course, PTC has delayed most of the ramps between the E-W Mainline and the Delaware Expressway until well into the future.

[DeaconG]

After the impromptu N.J. Turnpike meet to look at the new lanes between a point south of Exit 6 and 8A, we (two friends from AAROADS and myself) headed south via the N.J. Turnpike, then west via the N.J. Turnpike's Pennsylvania Turnpike Extension, across the Delaware River, and past the point where the E-W Mainline of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-276) passes under I-95.  There was some construction work going on adjacent to the westbound lanes of I-276 prior to I-95, but not much else. 

The location of the new eastern end of the Turnpike's ticket system was pretty obvious (west of I-95) and two new overpasses have been (re)built over I-276.

We exited the Turnpike at U.S. 1, headed north to the Delaware Expressway (I-95), and headed south toward the span that carries I-95 over I-276.  There was no obvious work going on along I-95.

Rhetorical question - why is it that the N.J. Turnpike Authority was able to plan, engineer and complete a massive widening of their turnpike in much less time than the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission and PennDOT are taking to build part of a (relatively) simple interchange?

And of course, PTC has delayed most of the ramps between the E-W Mainline and the Delaware Expressway until well into the future.

Act 44 might have something to do with it.

[odditude]

PennDOT has no cash.

also, unlike the Schuylkill, nobody refers to I-95 as the Delaware Expressway. It's just 95 or I-95.