PA Turnpike News

[Alps]

It will be widened.  Who knows if the bridge will be though.  The project is split into phases:
-Phase 1: Turnpike widening, new toll barrier (honestly, at this point they might as well just not bother), I-95 flyovers (scheduled to be completed this decade)
-Phase 2: the rest of the interchange (unfunded, scheduled for next decade)
-Phase 3: building the second bridge (unfunded, not yet scheduled at all)

Second bridge holds a special place in my heart, because NJ Turnpike. PA was supposed to finish the I-95 connection by now, but they have barely begun. NJ Tpk. may warrant widenings south of Interchange 6, especially between 3-4. Will those be needed when the PA interchange opens, or will enough traffic siphon off? Or will so much traffic siphon off that the second bridge becomes necessary? Is there any situation where traffic balances so perfectly that no improvements are needed south of the GS Parkway at all?

[cpzilliacus]

It will be widened.  Who knows if the bridge will be though.  The project is split into phases:
-Phase 1: Turnpike widening, new toll barrier (honestly, at this point they might as well just not bother), I-95 flyovers (scheduled to be completed this decade)
-Phase 2: the rest of the interchange (unfunded, scheduled for next decade)
-Phase 3: building the second bridge (unfunded, not yet scheduled at all)

Second bridge holds a special place in my heart, because NJ Turnpike. PA was supposed to finish the I-95 connection by now, but they have barely begun. NJ Tpk. may warrant widenings south of Interchange 6, especially between 3-4. Will those be needed when the PA interchange opens, or will enough traffic siphon off? Or will so much traffic siphon off that the second bridge becomes necessary? Is there any situation where traffic balances so perfectly that no improvements are needed south of the GS Parkway at all?

MTantillo had a sage comment the other day about this - in the past (in other Interstate corridors), many drivers would just follow the Interstate shields, which, of course, generally have not existed south of about the I-287/N.J. 440 [Exit 10] interchange on the N.J. Turnpike.  But now that class of drivers is (and will likely be) just following their GPS or smartphone navigation system, and those are likely to direct them (southbound) to stay on the N.J. Turnpike passing Exits 5 through 1 and across the Delaware Memorial Bridge, and not follow I-95 across the Delaware River to the E-W Mainline of the Pennsylvania Turnpike and then onto the Delaware Expressway. 

Northbound may be a different story, since the signs on the Delaware Turnpike headed for the I-95/I-295/I-495 split may well encourage at least some drivers to head north through Wilmington in the direction of the Delaware Expressway and Philadelphia, perhaps as a form of shunpiking, since there will (apparently) be no toll charged on the Pennsylvania Turnpike for the I-95 northbound movement, though I suspect that navigation systems will still encourage I-295 across the Delaware Memorial Bridge and then I-295 or the N.J. Turnpike.

Then there's the question of capacity on the E-W Mainline of the Pennsylvania Turnpike and the Delaware River—Turnpike Toll Bridge - only four lanes each way total (2 each direction), until some unspecified point in the future, so congestion there could be severe (and thus encourage drivers to stay with the N.J. Turnpike or perhaps I-295).

I have suggested in the past (and I repeat) that it is time for the N.J. Turnpike to do away with the silly "secret" N.J. 700 designation and sign the Turnpike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 as a 3DI, perhaps I-895. Turnpikes in states as diverse as Kansas and Pennsylvania have done this for many years.

[cl94]

I have suggested in the past (and I repeat) that it is time for the N.J. Turnpike to do away with the silly "secret" N.J. 700 designation and sign the Turnpike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 as a 3DI, perhaps I-895. Turnpikes in states as diverse as Kansas and Pennsylvania have done this for many years.

Yet they aren't the only state with such a case. New York (part of Berkshire Spur and ~1 mile within Exit 24), Maine (I-495 is unsigned on the Falmouth Spur), and Florida keep "secret" designations for the parts that don't fit in the Interstate grid. The Creek Turnpike in Oklahoma doesn't have any designation I can find. Heck, the Berkshire Spur couldn't be I-487 if NYSTA wanted it until the Castleton Bridge gets a median barrier.

[SteveG1988]

I know they'd never do this, but I'd make a special trip to PA if the PTC would re-open the tunnel linking the two plazas while North Midway is closed for reconstruction.

It is more than just closed...it is gone, no more, it has ceased to be, it has expired, it is an ex plaza

[jeffandnicole]

I happened to stop by there the weekend it was shutting down. Here are the memories of a rather ordinary, small plaza...

[SteveG1988]

North Midway was built later, i read that it originally was just a fuel stop and the tunnel was used to link the two sides together, so you could get food. Then they built the recently demolished building later.

[1995hoo]

Wasn't the upstairs used for some sort of lodging at one point? I don't remember that because the first time I was on the Pennsylvania Turnpike was on a Boy Scout trip to Seven Springs when I was 11 years old, but I seem to recall reading that South Midway's upper level was used for some kind of lodging.

[jeffandnicole]

North Midway was built later, i read that it originally was just a fuel stop and the tunnel was used to link the two sides together, so you could get food. Then they built the recently demolished building later.

By chance, we happened to stop at the original Midway on the way back.  It's literally one of the best, most historic service plaza buildings out there (with literally hundreds of interesting pictures to boot), then it was paired with a hillbilly shack on the other side of the roadway where you bump into each other just trying to get to the restrooms.

[briantroutman]

Wasn't the upstairs used for some sort of lodging at one point?

I've read some articles and PTC brochures from the '40s and early '50s that mentioned there being "dormitories for truckers"  on South Midway's second floor. Unfortunately I've never seen photos of the setup as it was in those days or read anything that described the overnight accommodations in greater detail.

[SteveG1988]

My interpetation of "Dormitories for truckers" would mean the large open area up top would just have cots and maybe blankets for truckers. For some reason it sounds like that maybe it was used originally during construction to house people who were working, and then turned over for that use until it became a meeting room. Isn't South Midway being preserved? since it did just get an overhaul.

[1995hoo]

Thanks. "Dormitories" makes me picture something like what I picture low-cost "hostels" to be (although I've never stayed at one). I couldn't find any photos either other than one showing the upstairs as more recently being set up as meeting space or perhaps as an employee breakroom.

[qguy]

Midway North was originally just a small garage and entrance to the tunnel to Midway South which had on its second floor what the Turnpike called a "dormitory." In the age before sleeper cabs, truckers could pay to stay overnight. There were beds (with bedding) in an "open-bay" configuration and a communal bathroom/shower facility. The idea was that a second dormitory-type service plaza on the north side was unnecessary since truckers could simply access the dormitory at the south plaza through the tunnel.

With the development of the sleeper cab, though, use of the dormitory waned and the Turnpike eventually closed it. Don't know the year that happened.

In 2008, I went on a road trip with my then-9-year-old son. I was a PennDOT employee at the time and I arranged ahead of time (had to arrange for personal liability assumption and all that) for the two of us to tour the tunnel, dorm, and facilities which are not accessible to the public. The dorm is still much as it was when it was used, but without the beds; it's now used for storage. The tunnel is used by employees. It's in relatively good shape, but the paint has peeled a lot. The stairs in the north plaza had been removed and rebuilt in a slightly different location (now completely obliterated with the demolition of course). The stairs in the south plaza are in the same location, just not accessible by the public.

[jeffandnicole]

Isn't South Midway being preserved? since it did just get an overhaul.

Yep.  The construction of North Midway has nothing to do with South Midway.

[1995hoo]

....

In 2008, I went on a road trip with my then-9-year-old son. I was a PennDOT employee at the time and I arranged ahead of time (had to arrange for personal liability assumption and all that) for the two of us to tour the tunnel, dorm, and facilities which are not accessible to the public. The dorm is still much as it was when it was used, but without the beds; it's now used for storage. The tunnel is used by employees. It's in relatively good shape, but the paint has peeled a lot. The stairs in the north plaza had been removed and rebuilt in a slightly different location (now completely obliterated with the demolition of course). The stairs in the south plaza are in the same location, just not accessible by the public.

Neat. Do you have any pictures you can share, or do they frown upon your posting that sort of thing?

[Roadrunner75]

There are some photos here:
http://www.gribblenation.com/breezewood/midway.html
I think this came up on another thread not too long ago, and someone had pointed to this page.

[cpzilliacus]

I have suggested in the past (and I repeat) that it is time for the N.J. Turnpike to do away with the silly "secret" N.J. 700 designation and sign the Turnpike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 as a 3DI, perhaps I-895. Turnpikes in states as diverse as Kansas and Pennsylvania have done this for many years.

Yet they aren't the only state with such a case. New York (part of Berkshire Spur and ~1 mile within Exit 24), Maine (I-495 is unsigned on the Falmouth Spur), and Florida keep "secret" designations for the parts that don't fit in the Interstate grid. The Creek Turnpike in Oklahoma doesn't have any designation I can find. Heck, the Berkshire Spur couldn't be I-487 if NYSTA wanted it until the Castleton Bridge gets a median barrier.

I concede all of the above.  The difference here is that the N.J. Turnpike will be directing at least some motorists off its road when the signs read I-95 South, and having an I-895 shield for traffic headed south past Exits 5 to 1 might be a good idea.  With the exception of Florida's Turnpike, I believe the traffic volumes here are also higher than the other examples you cite - the Berkshire Section was nearly empty when I drove it from the MassPike to I-87 about a year ago.

[PHLBOS]

I have suggested in the past (and I repeat) that it is time for the N.J. Turnpike to do away with the silly "secret" N.J. 700 designation and sign the Turnpike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 as a 3DI, perhaps I-895. Turnpikes in states as diverse as Kansas and Pennsylvania have done this for many years.

FHWA has objected to such in the past for the following reason (note: this was written several years ago):

The most serious Federal problem is that the southern part of the New Jersey Turnpike is not presently on the Interstate System and must not carry an Interstate number. The state of New Jersey would have to be sure that all features are up to current standards, agree to operating requirements for Interstates, and submit a request to the FHWA that it be designated an Interstate. The state has not been persuaded so far that it would be worth it.

Source for above-quote

Nonetheless, there's no reason why the NJTA can't actually sign & designate the lower Turnpike as State Route 695 or 895.

[1995hoo]

There are some photos here:
http://www.gribblenation.com/breezewood/midway.html
I think this came up on another thread not too long ago, and someone had pointed to this page.

I had seen those pictures before (hence my reference to upstairs being set up as a meeting room or breakroom). I was just curious if there were any others. I'm not optimistic of finding anything from back when it was still in use.

[SteveG1988]

I have suggested in the past (and I repeat) that it is time for the N.J. Turnpike to do away with the silly "secret" N.J. 700 designation and sign the Turnpike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 as a 3DI, perhaps I-895. Turnpikes in states as diverse as Kansas and Pennsylvania have done this for many years.

FHWA has objected to such in the past for the following reason (note: this was written several years ago):

The most serious Federal problem is that the southern part of the New Jersey Turnpike is not presently on the Interstate System and must not carry an Interstate number. The state of New Jersey would have to be sure that all features are up to current standards, agree to operating requirements for Interstates, and submit a request to the FHWA that it be designated an Interstate. The state has not been persuaded so far that it would be worth it.

Source for above-quote

Nonetheless, there's no reason why the NJTA can't actually sign & designate the lower Turnpike as State Route 695 or 895.

Would this happening in 20xx mean it would not be grandfathered in?

[cl94]

I have suggested in the past (and I repeat) that it is time for the N.J. Turnpike to do away with the silly "secret" N.J. 700 designation and sign the Turnpike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 as a 3DI, perhaps I-895. Turnpikes in states as diverse as Kansas and Pennsylvania have done this for many years.

FHWA has objected to such in the past for the following reason (note: this was written several years ago):

The most serious Federal problem is that the southern part of the New Jersey Turnpike is not presently on the Interstate System and must not carry an Interstate number. The state of New Jersey would have to be sure that all features are up to current standards, agree to operating requirements for Interstates, and submit a request to the FHWA that it be designated an Interstate. The state has not been persuaded so far that it would be worth it.

Source for above-quote

Nonetheless, there's no reason why the NJTA can't actually sign & designate the lower Turnpike as State Route 695 or 895.

Would this happening in 20xx mean it would not be grandfathered in?

They don't really grandfather stuff in anymore. Take I-86 in New York. AASHTO won't approve the designation in Binghamton until Kamikaze Curve is fixed. Part of this section is even concurrent with I-81 and all was built to ~1960s standards. East of the Exit 111 RIRO is the same quality as many Interstates in much of the northeast (including I-84 and I-87) and that isn't even I-86 yet. I'm pretty sure that the speed limits will even remain the same (except the small stretch it's getting a new/rebuilt alignment).

[jeffandnicole]

I have suggested in the past (and I repeat) that it is time for the N.J. Turnpike to do away with the silly "secret" N.J. 700 designation and sign the Turnpike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 as a 3DI, perhaps I-895. Turnpikes in states as diverse as Kansas and Pennsylvania have done this for many years.

FHWA has objected to such in the past for the following reason (note: this was written several years ago):

The most serious Federal problem is that the southern part of the New Jersey Turnpike is not presently on the Interstate System and must not carry an Interstate number. The state of New Jersey would have to be sure that all features are up to current standards, agree to operating requirements for Interstates, and submit a request to the FHWA that it be designated an Interstate. The state has not been persuaded so far that it would be worth it.

Source for above-quote

Nonetheless, there's no reason why the NJTA can't actually sign & designate the lower Turnpike as State Route 695 or 895.

What difference would it make? Motorists are concerned about two things:

A) It's the NJ Turnpike
B) The direction of travel

Depending on the road, people may be more familiar with the name anyway. To give the southern portion a new number would be a pointless concurrency.

[02 Park Ave]

The exit numbers will have to be changed to the mileage basis either way.

[qguy]

....
In 2008, I went on a road trip with my then-9-year-old son. I was a PennDOT employee at the time and I arranged ahead of time (had to arrange for personal liability assumption and all that) for the two of us to tour the tunnel, dorm, and facilities which are not accessible to the public. The dorm is still much as it was when it was used, but without the beds; it's now used for storage. The tunnel is used by employees. It's in relatively good shape, but the paint has peeled a lot. The stairs in the north plaza had been removed and rebuilt in a slightly different location (now completely obliterated with the demolition of course). The stairs in the south plaza are in the same location, just not accessible by the public.

Neat. Do you have any pictures you can share, or do they frown upon your posting that sort of thing?

I don't have any pics of the dormitory, but I do have some of the tunnel and stairs. I'll post them when I get a chance.

[cpzilliacus]

The most serious Federal problem is that the southern part of the New Jersey Turnpike is not presently on the Interstate System and must not carry an Interstate number. The state of New Jersey would have to be sure that all features are up to current standards, agree to operating requirements for Interstates, and submit a request to the FHWA that it be designated an Interstate. The state has not been persuaded so far that it would be worth it.

Source for above-quote

Nonetheless, there's no reason why the NJTA can't actually sign & designate the lower Turnpike as State Route 695 or 895.

Though I have driven that part of the N.J. Turnpike many times, and aside from the non-MUTCD signage, it would seem able to pass an inspection by FHWA or AASHTO to allow it to be signed as an Interstate.  I do not think I have used all of the exits, so they may not be up to snuff, but on the other hand, they have to be better than some of the Pennsylvania Turnpike's interchanges along the E-W Mainline and Northeast Extension, all of which have Interstate designation.

Speaking of which, the approaches to the F.S. Key Bridge were once signed as Md. 695 (because they were Super-2, though the bridge itself has always been four lane divided), but is now signed as I-695 (though the last time I checked, the Highway Location Reference still reads Md. 695), even though some sections of the road seem to not exactly be Interstate standard, especially on the southeast side, between U.S. 40 and Md. 151 (one of the exits to the now-defunct Sparrows Point steel mill).

[jeffandnicole]

The most serious Federal problem is that the southern part of the New Jersey Turnpike is not presently on the Interstate System and must not carry an Interstate number. The state of New Jersey would have to be sure that all features are up to current standards, agree to operating requirements for Interstates, and submit a request to the FHWA that it be designated an Interstate. The state has not been persuaded so far that it would be worth it.

Source for above-quote

Nonetheless, there's no reason why the NJTA can't actually sign & designate the lower Turnpike as State Route 695 or 895.

Though I have driven that part of the N.J. Turnpike many times, and aside from the non-MUTCD signage, it would seem able to pass an inspection by FHWA or AASHTO to allow it to be signed as an Interstate.  I do not think I have used all of the exits, so they may not be up to snuff, but on the other hand, they have to be better than some of the Pennsylvania Turnpike's interchanges along the E-W Mainline and Northeast Extension, all of which have Interstate designation.

Speaking of which, the approaches to the F.S. Key Bridge were once signed as Md. 695 (because they were Super-2, though the bridge itself has always been four lane divided), but is now signed as I-695 (though the last time I checked, the Highway Location Reference still reads Md. 695), even though some sections of the road seem to not exactly be Interstate standard, especially on the southeast side, between U.S. 40 and Md. 151 (one of the exits to the now-defunct Sparrows Point steel mill).

It would have to be a nitpik type of thing if anything.  Anything between Exits 1 & 6 are what would be found elsewhere on the interstate portion of the Turnpike.