PA Turnpike News

[Alps]

I've noticed more willingness to use toll roads in Texas, where people jump on to avoid delays on the free parallel Interstates (and other state/US freeways, expressways, and arterials). I think if you get enough congestion and there is no free-flowing untolled route, the tolled route will pick up volume.

It also helps that the speed limit is higher on them, at least in Dallas/Fort Worth.

Well, I-35 between San Antonio and the Austin area has TX 130 as the tolled alternative, and I-35 gets plenty of traffic. TX 130 gets cricket sounds everywhere, as when it had opened, Section 5 and 6 had only 6000 AADT as of 2013. Texas A&M Transportation Institute found incentives to use TX 130, but although through trucks are a small part of traffic of I-35, there's still a lot of trucks there than on TX 130. Even on the 85 mph segment, there's still not a lot of traffic, and the 130 Concession Company went bankrupt too.

So it's essentially a gamble if that toll road picks up volume, even if the free road is congested.

I said parallel. TX 130 serves an empty corridor.

[briantroutman]

Then again, how did the old Zelienople service plaza go bankrupt and close?

Zelienople didn't go bankrupt–it couldn't. Service plazas aren't independent businesses.

Here's what happened: HMS Host, the private company that operates the food concessions at all of the PA Turnpike's service plazas (and on countless other toll roads, at airports, and elsewhere nationwide) entered into an agreement with the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission to reconstruct all of the service plazas at HMS's expense. In exchange, HMS gets an exclusive license to operate the service plazas for 30 years.

HMS looked at the sales figures for the various plazas, realized that Zelienople was one of their poorest performing locations–not worth the cost to completely reconstruct the plaza. Here's an article from the Post-Gazette explaining the closure.

The number of service plazas has been steadily dwindling since the primary PA Turnpike system was completed in 1957. Twelve service plazas have been permanently closed:

- Laurel Hill (1957)
- New Baltimore (1957)
- Cove Valley (1968)
- Denver (1980)
- Mechanicsburg (1980)
- Pleasant Valley (1980)
- Path Valley (1983)
- Butler (2002)
- Hempfield (2007)
- South Neshaminy (2007)
- Zelienople (2008)
- North Neshaminy (2010)

Some of these plazas were demolished to make room for widening (Hempfield, Neshaminy), but others were closed simply because business was poor. Here's a Post-Gazette article from 1983 which mentions that Exxon and Howard Johnson's negotiated with the PTC to close Path Valley because it was unprofitable.

But some of the closed plazas were tiny and primitive compared with today's plazas. Some of them were little more than a lunch counter and literally a couple fuel pumps. Here's a photo of the tiny New Baltimore service station.

[cl94]

I've noticed more willingness to use toll roads in Texas, where people jump on to avoid delays on the free parallel Interstates (and other state/US freeways, expressways, and arterials). I think if you get enough congestion and there is no free-flowing untolled route, the tolled route will pick up volume.

It also helps that the speed limit is higher on them, at least in Dallas/Fort Worth.

Well, I-35 between San Antonio and the Austin area has TX 130 as the tolled alternative, and I-35 gets plenty of traffic. TX 130 gets cricket sounds everywhere, as when it had opened, Section 5 and 6 had only 6000 AADT as of 2013. Texas A&M Transportation Institute found incentives to use TX 130, but although through trucks are a small part of traffic of I-35, there's still a lot of trucks there than on TX 130. Even on the 85 mph segment, there's still not a lot of traffic, and the 130 Concession Company went bankrupt too.

So it's essentially a gamble if that toll road picks up volume, even if the free road is congested.

I said parallel. TX 130 serves an empty corridor.

TX 130 hits I-10 too far east to attract San Antonio traffic and too far west for Houston traffic. It really needed to come in west of Seguin.

[jeffandnicole]

As one who has driven both I-80 and the Pa. Tpk. between New Jersey and the Altoona-State College area, I prefer the Turnpike even with the tolls. I-80 is a horribly boring drive. Miles and miles of nothing to see. At least the Turnpike has service areas, interesting tunnels and is generally more scenic.

I've been on both as well, and I find I-80 to be more interesting and scenic.

Drive both of them enough, and they're both boring.

From South Jersey, when I go to Ohio, often times I'll take the PA Turnpike out, and I-80 to the NE Extension back.  Last time, I did the reverse. 

[jcn]

Here's one tip when traveling on the PA turnpike.  If you are traveling westbound on the turnpike, and you get on the turnpike at or before the Lebanon Interchange, always stop at the Lawn Service Plaza.  This is because the next service plaza, Blue Mountain, is not for 90 miles which is the longest gap between service plazas westbound wise.  And while along the first half of the gap, there are a spew of exits in the Harrisburg area that have nearby accommodations in case of an emergency, as soon as you pass the Carlisle exit, there is not another exit before the Blue Mountain Service Plaza, and that service plaza isn't for another 40 miles.  I share this because my brother went to University of Pittsburgh and I'm from the Philly area, so my family would travel frequently to Pittsburgh on the turnpike, and one time, we were traveling on the stretch between the Carlisle exit and the Blue Mountain Service Plaza, and my mother had to use the restroom really bad, and we were so close to running out of gas.  Fortunately, we made it to Blue Mountain before disaster occured, but we were all so worried.  Even since then, we would always stop at Lawn.

Does anyone have any other tips for traveling the turnpike?

I'm not sure it is 90 miles between Lawn and Blue Mountain.  I'm seeing the distance as 56 miles per the PA Turnpike website - it is still on the long side though.  The largest gap is west of New Stanton, given there's no longer a service plaza between there and the Ohio state line.  It's at least 77 miles between plazas in that case.

You're right, it is only 56 miles between the service plazas.  What happened was I mixed up miles and kilometers.    It's 90 kilometers between service plazas, not miles.

You're also right that there is a bigger gap between New Stanton and the service plaza after in Ohio.  But, starting at the first exit after the New Stanton plaza, there are signs saying which restaurants are off of the exits due to the fact that New Stanton is the last service plaza on the PA Turnpike.  That's not the case between Lawn and Blue Mountain because Lawn obviously isn't the last plaza. 

Also, like I said, there's a 25 mile gap between the Carlisle exit and the Blue Mountain.  In between the New Stanton plaza and the first plaza in Ohio, there isn't as big of a gap between exits.  Therefore, in regards to both exits and service plazas, the biggest gap westbound is from Carlisle to Blue Mountain.

[jemacedo9]

Therefore, in regards to both exits and service plazas, the biggest gap westbound is from Carlisle to Blue Mountain.

Actually, the biggest gap in both directions is from the Somerset Service Plazas to the Bedford exit, which is about 34 miles.

[jcn]

Therefore, in regards to both exits and service plazas, the biggest gap westbound is from Carlisle to Blue Mountain.

Actually, the biggest gap in both directions is from the Somerset Service Plazas to the Bedford exit, which is about 34 miles.

You're right.

[MASTERNC]

Just drove from Philly to Pittsburgh today.  Saw several instances of the PTC using the new Daktronics VMSs to display "traffic signs", though the quality didn't seem as good as the ones on the NJ TPK.

There is also a new graphic sign they are using in the construction zone near Carlisle (they displayed it on the VMS and on freestanding signs).  It is a long white rectangular sign and shows two trucks side by side, bordered by side profiles of guard rail on the right and median on the left.  A green circle surrounds the truck in the left lane while a red "no" symbol is over the truck in the right lane (indicating trucks are to be in the left lane).  It reminds me somewhat of the European "no passing" signs but it uses the same color circles as the small hazmat signs you sometimes see in the Midwest.

[cpzilliacus]

It reminds me somewhat of the European "no passing" signs but it uses the same color circles as the small hazmat signs you sometimes see in the Midwest.

"Trucks No Passing" in Sweden is this:



No HAZMATs is this:

[cpzilliacus]

I'm not sure it is 90 miles between Lawn and Blue Mountain.  I'm seeing the distance as 56 miles per the PA Turnpike website - it is still on the long side though.  The largest gap is west of New Stanton, given there's no longer a service plaza between there and the Ohio state line.  It's at least 77 miles between plazas in that case.

According to Google, it is  81+ miles from the New Stanton service plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (the last one westbound on the E-W Mainline) to the first one  on the Ohio Pike (Mahoning Valley).  IMO, the PTC and its service plaza concession holder ought to be able to have some on-Turnpike services in that long stretch, perhaps between I-79 and Ohio?

That's awfully far for a road that supposedly provides service plazas for its patrons (and I know that at least some of the exits on the westbound Penn Pike between New Stanton and the Ohio border show services available at the interchanges).

[cl94]

I'm not sure it is 90 miles between Lawn and Blue Mountain.  I'm seeing the distance as 56 miles per the PA Turnpike website - it is still on the long side though.  The largest gap is west of New Stanton, given there's no longer a service plaza between there and the Ohio state line.  It's at least 77 miles between plazas in that case.

According to Google, it is  81+ miles from the New Stanton service plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (the last one westbound on the E-W Mainline) to the first one  on the Ohio Pike (Mahoning Valley).  IMO, the PTC and its service plaza concession holder ought to be able to have some on-Turnpike services in that long stretch, perhaps between I-79 and Ohio?

That's awfully far for a road that supposedly provides service plazas for its patrons (and I know that at least some of the exits on the westbound Penn Pike between New Stanton and the Ohio border show services available at the interchanges).

At least the road is toll-free west of I-79, so one doesn't have to pass through a toll booth any extra times to eat/get gas at an exit.

The distance from the Lee service plaza on the Mass Pike to the first one on I-90 in New York (Patersonville) is 67.4 miles. If one follows the Berkshire Spur to the Thruway mainline recommended route, there are zero easily-accessible services between them except for the new truck stop at Exit B3. IMO, that is worse, even if it is 15 miles shorter. At least the I-79/US 19 exit has a bunch of options while being easy on/off.

[MASTERNC]

I'm not sure it is 90 miles between Lawn and Blue Mountain.  I'm seeing the distance as 56 miles per the PA Turnpike website - it is still on the long side though.  The largest gap is west of New Stanton, given there's no longer a service plaza between there and the Ohio state line.  It's at least 77 miles between plazas in that case.

According to Google, it is  81+ miles from the New Stanton service plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (the last one westbound on the E-W Mainline) to the first one  on the Ohio Pike (Mahoning Valley).  IMO, the PTC and its service plaza concession holder ought to be able to have some on-Turnpike services in that long stretch, perhaps between I-79 and Ohio?

That's awfully far for a road that supposedly provides service plazas for its patrons (and I know that at least some of the exits on the westbound Penn Pike between New Stanton and the Ohio border show services available at the interchanges).

There are service signs WB past New Stanton (and also some east of Valley Forge).  That said, you technically pay a "penalty" for exiting and re-entering the Turnpike (i.e. toll from A to B and B to C is more than A to C) if you can't wait until passing the mainline toll plaza.

[jeffandnicole]

If you've seen service area pricing, you're paying a bigger penalty by eating on the Turnpike!

[cpzilliacus]

If you've seen service area pricing, you're paying a bigger penalty by eating on the Turnpike!

Correct.  But for convenience, the service plazas are IMO best, and in many states they have gotten nice renovations in recent years (such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Delaware and Connecticut).

Wish they were allowed by the feds on "free" freeways, as they are in Quebec and especially Ontario - and in many EU nations.

[roadman65]

Yet liquor stores can be present in a rest area in NH, go figure!  Anyway most likely because its under the rest area umbrella, however I am guessing CT is still allowed to keep plazas because its grandfathered into it being it was a toll road on I-95.

[PHLBOS]

I am guessing CT is still allowed to keep plazas because its grandfathered into it being it was a toll road on I-95.

You guessed correctly.  Similar can be said regarding the Newton (southbound) and Lexington (northbound) service plazas along I-95 (MA 128) in MA.  Those predated 128 becoming the de-facto I-95 and were also grandfathered.

[cl94]

If you've seen service area pricing, you're paying a bigger penalty by eating on the Turnpike!

Correct.  But for convenience, the service plazas are IMO best, and in many states they have gotten nice renovations in recent years (such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Delaware and Connecticut).

Wish they were allowed by the feds on "free" freeways, as they are in Quebec and especially Ontario - and in many EU nations.

If they aren't allowed, then how the heck is NYSDOT putting in rest areas with stores on the LIE and I-90 east of Albany?

[CobaltYoshi27]

If you've seen service area pricing, you're paying a bigger penalty by eating on the Turnpike!

Correct.  But for convenience, the service plazas are IMO best, and in many states they have gotten nice renovations in recent years (such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Delaware and Connecticut).

Wish they were allowed by the feds on "free" freeways, as they are in Quebec and especially Ontario - and in many EU nations.

If they aren't allowed, then how the heck is NYSDOT putting in rest areas with stores on the LIE and I-90 east of Albany?

I travel the LIE a lot, and I have not seen a single store in the one or two rest areas on it.

[cl94]

If you've seen service area pricing, you're paying a bigger penalty by eating on the Turnpike!

Correct.  But for convenience, the service plazas are IMO best, and in many states they have gotten nice renovations in recent years (such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Delaware and Connecticut).

Wish they were allowed by the feds on "free" freeways, as they are in Quebec and especially Ontario - and in many EU nations.

If they aren't allowed, then how the heck is NYSDOT putting in rest areas with stores on the LIE and I-90 east of Albany?

I travel the LIE a lot, and I have not seen a single store in the one or two rest areas on it.

They're building a new one with a Taste NY store. Construction hasn't started yet.

[jeffandnicole]

If you've seen service area pricing, you're paying a bigger penalty by eating on the Turnpike!

Correct.  But for convenience, the service plazas are IMO best, and in many states they have gotten nice renovations in recent years (such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Delaware and Connecticut).

Wish they were allowed by the feds on "free" freeways, as they are in Quebec and especially Ontario - and in many EU nations.

If they aren't allowed, then how the heck is NYSDOT putting in rest areas with stores on the LIE and I-90 east of Albany?

I travel the LIE a lot, and I have not seen a single store in the one or two rest areas on it.

They're building a new one with a Taste NY store. Construction hasn't started yet.

That's not what the press release says...

https://www.dot.ny.gov/news/press-releases/2016/2016-03-22

The Taste NY Long Island Welcome Center will inform visitors of additional locations to purchase regionally-produced goods and help to promote Long Island towns, villages and events.

[cl94]

If you've seen service area pricing, you're paying a bigger penalty by eating on the Turnpike!

Correct.  But for convenience, the service plazas are IMO best, and in many states they have gotten nice renovations in recent years (such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Delaware and Connecticut).

Wish they were allowed by the feds on "free" freeways, as they are in Quebec and especially Ontario - and in many EU nations.

If they aren't allowed, then how the heck is NYSDOT putting in rest areas with stores on the LIE and I-90 east of Albany?

I travel the LIE a lot, and I have not seen a single store in the one or two rest areas on it.

They're building a new one with a Taste NY store. Construction hasn't started yet.

That's not what the press release says...

https://www.dot.ny.gov/news/press-releases/2016/2016-03-22

The Taste NY Long Island Welcome Center will inform visitors of additional locations to purchase regionally-produced goods and help to promote Long Island towns, villages and events.

The plans, posted April 1 (no joke), say otherwise. Retail counter and prep kitchen.

The I-90 one in Schodack has a clearly-marked sales and retail area on page 74.

[CobaltYoshi27]

If you've seen service area pricing, you're paying a bigger penalty by eating on the Turnpike!

Correct.  But for convenience, the service plazas are IMO best, and in many states they have gotten nice renovations in recent years (such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Delaware and Connecticut).

Wish they were allowed by the feds on "free" freeways, as they are in Quebec and especially Ontario - and in many EU nations.

If they aren't allowed, then how the heck is NYSDOT putting in rest areas with stores on the LIE and I-90 east of Albany?

I travel the LIE a lot, and I have not seen a single store in the one or two rest areas on it.

They're building a new one with a Taste NY store. Construction hasn't started yet.

And that would be why. Do you know which rest area it will be in?

[vdeane]

They're converting the eastbound parking area.  I believe the westbound one will be closing, but don't quote me on that, it's just something I remember seeing in one of the many, many articles that have sprung up on the subject in recent weeks.

[CobaltYoshi27]

They're converting the eastbound parking area.  I believe the westbound one will be closing, but don't quote me on that, it's just something I remember seeing in one of the many, many articles that have sprung up on the subject in recent weeks.

Great. The exit I live by.

[jeffandnicole]

The plans, posted April 1 (no joke), say otherwise. Retail counter and prep kitchen.

What page?  This thing is 178 pages long and loads very slowly.

The I-90 one in Schodack has a clearly-marked sales and retail area on page 74.

I see "Sales" on that page, but it's not really telling me anything, and there's nothing going on in there that's referring to anything that they are selling.  The best I see is some sort of 'Prep' area and what may look like 2 fountain soda machines, but I can't tell for sure what they are doing there.