PA Turnpike News

[tylert120]

I have a question regarding the Turnpike's control cities. It seems PTC always uses cities that are quite far at tool booths. For example, at the Allegheny Valley interchange, they use Harrisburg and Ohio. To me, it would make much more sense to use Monroeville and Irwin instead of Harrisburg, and Cranberry and Beaver instead of Ohio. I could see even using Harrisburg and Ohio as the secondary city, but as primary cities, it just seems odd to me. Is there a reason for this? Also, I could be wrong, but doesn't the MUTCD prohibit the use of state names as control cities?

https://goo.gl/maps/aCLFXrDeWGAxoWki7

[Revive 755]

Also, I could be wrong, but doesn't the MUTCD prohibit the use of state names as control cities?

https://goo.gl/maps/aCLFXrDeWGAxoWki7

I'm not seeing it specifically in the MUTCD, but 2E.13 Paragraph 04 references an AASHTO document on guide signs.  I would certainly like to see the practice restricted to limit the use of control state to interchanges/intersections near river crossings.

[briantroutman]

It seems PTC always uses cities that are quite far at tool booths. For example, at the Allegheny Valley interchange, they use Harrisburg and Ohio. To me, it would make much more sense to use Monroeville and Irwin instead of Harrisburg, and Cranberry and Beaver instead of Ohio....

The cities listed on guide signs for Interstates (control cities) are supposed to significant cities of regional or national significance. Their purpose is to guide long-distance motorists who are unfamiliar with the area, not locals going to the next exit. So Harrisburg, the state capital and center of metro area of about 600,000, is an appropriate eastbound control city.

AASHTO's list of approved control cities is listed here: https://traffic.transportation.org/interstate-control-cities/

Westbound is slightly problematic because the Ohio Turnpike bypasses Youngstown, Akron, and Cleveland without serving any of them directly. Then, too, I-76 breaks off the Ohio Turnpike west of Youngstown, so there's some divergence between the destination of the road you're currently on (PA Turnpike/OH Turnpike) and the numerical designation (I-76). So to avoid confusion, the PTC has long used Ohio (or "Ohio and West" ).

I believe that AASHTO does discourage (if not exactly prohibit) the use of state names instead of control cities, and westbound technically should be signed "Youngstown" .

[jeffandnicole]

I have a question regarding the Turnpike's control cities. It seems PTC always uses cities that are quite far at tool booths. For example, at the Allegheny Valley interchange, they use Harrisburg and Ohio. To me, it would make much more sense to use Monroeville and Irwin instead of Harrisburg, and Cranberry and Beaver instead of Ohio. I could see even using Harrisburg and Ohio as the secondary city, but as primary cities, it just seems odd to me. Is there a reason for this? Also, I could be wrong, but doesn't the MUTCD prohibit the use of state names as control cities?

https://goo.gl/maps/aCLFXrDeWGAxoWki7

Generally, most highway's entrance ramps don't list the next exit's towns.  Highways Control Cities are designed to direct people towards larger cities.

Westbound is slightly problematic because the Ohio Turnpike bypasses Youngstown, Akron, and Cleveland without serving any of them directly.

Note: The PA Turnpike doesn't serve Harrisburg directly either. 

It's not absolutely necessary for a highway to go into the control city's town.  Youngstown is decent, although I would prefer Cleveland, even though that involves continuing from I-76 to I-80.

[Crown Victoria]

I have a question regarding the Turnpike's control cities. It seems PTC always uses cities that are quite far at tool booths. For example, at the Allegheny Valley interchange, they use Harrisburg and Ohio. To me, it would make much more sense to use Monroeville and Irwin instead of Harrisburg, and Cranberry and Beaver instead of Ohio. I could see even using Harrisburg and Ohio as the secondary city, but as primary cities, it just seems odd to me. Is there a reason for this? Also, I could be wrong, but doesn't the MUTCD prohibit the use of state names as control cities?

https://goo.gl/maps/aCLFXrDeWGAxoWki7

Generally, most highway's entrance ramps don't list the next exit's towns.  Highways Control Cities are designed to direct people towards larger cities.

Westbound is slightly problematic because the Ohio Turnpike bypasses Youngstown, Akron, and Cleveland without serving any of them directly.

Note: The PA Turnpike doesn't serve Harrisburg directly either. 

It's not absolutely necessary for a highway to go into the control city's town.  Youngstown is decent, although I would prefer Cleveland, even though that involves continuing from I-76 to I-80.

The PA Turnpike is signed using Youngstown OH as a control city on US 19 at the Cranberry Interchange (This might be PennDOT's doing, though).
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6817443,-80.1006858,3a,75y,184.52h,89.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss4z0Nc1DtZoFsNIyuqgMdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

PennDOT also uses state names...in this particular case, on I-78, where Newark and New York would both be suitable control cities:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5853372,-75.5993595,3a,75y,64.75h,94.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqLb2hKpQSxk_4bZttLvgEw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[Beltway]

PennDOT also uses state names...in this particular case, on I-78, where Newark and New York would both be suitable control cities:

I've seen that concept on Interstate highways around the Chicago area, use of state names for controls -- Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana and Illinois.

I think that can be more useful than city names in some cases. 

Using "I-80 West - Iowa" is very clear when you are heading west on I-80 in NW Indiana.

[KEVIN_224]

Would "Quad Cities" be a no-no for I-80 as well? Does it go through or near, say, Davenport, IA?

[Revive 755]

PennDOT also uses state names...in this particular case, on I-78, where Newark and New York would both be suitable control cities:

I've seen that concept on Interstate highways around the Chicago area, use of state names for controls -- Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana and Illinois.

I think that can be more useful than city names in some cases. 

Using "I-80 West - Iowa" is very clear when you are heading west on I-80 in NW Indiana.

It's not clear enough given the length of the border between Iowa and Illinois.  Could be Davenport, could be Clinton, Dubuque, or Burlington . . .

Would "Quad Cities" be a no-no for I-80 as well? Does it go through or near, say, Davenport, IA?

I-80 does go through the city limits Davenport (I think there is one of Iowa's city name signs for it, but I could be thinking of I-74), but it also gets a "Davenport Exits" sign.

[jeffandnicole]

Would "Quad Cities" be a no-no for I-80 as well? Does it go through or near, say, Davenport, IA?

Quad Citirs would be meaningless. Heck, it doesn't even show up on a Google Maps search. You'll need to pick an actual city.

[Beltway]

Would "Quad Cities" be a no-no for I-80 as well? Does it go through or near, say, Davenport, IA?

Quad Citirs would be meaningless. Heck, it doesn't even show up on a Google Maps search. You'll need to pick an actual city.

None of which is large enough to really "stand out" in the minds of travelers that are not familiar with the area.  The whole metro isn't very large.

The Quad Cities is a region of five cities in the U.S. states of Iowa and Illinois: Davenport and Bettendorf in southeastern Iowa, and Rock Island, Moline, and East Moline in northwestern Illinois.  These cities are the center of the Quad Cities metropolitan area, which as of 2013 had a population estimate of 383,781 and a CSA (Combined Statistical Area) population of 474,937, making it the 90th-largest CSA in the nation.

[jeffandnicole]

Would "Quad Cities" be a no-no for I-80 as well? Does it go through or near, say, Davenport, IA?

Quad Citirs would be meaningless. Heck, it doesn't even show up on a Google Maps search. You'll need to pick an actual city.

None of which is large enough to really "stand out" in the minds of travelers that are not familiar with the area.  The whole metro isn't very large.

The Quad Cities is a region of five cities in the U.S. states of Iowa and Illinois: Davenport and Bettendorf in southeastern Iowa, and Rock Island, Moline, and East Moline in northwestern Illinois.  These cities are the center of the Quad Cities metropolitan area, which as of 2013 had a population estimate of 383,781 and a CSA (Combined Statistical Area) population of 474,937, making it the 90th-largest CSA in the nation.

Even worse when Quad Cities doesn't even mean 4 cities!!!

In this case, just use Davenport as the main city, then afterwords use one of the other cities along the route if necessary. But the reality I would suspect is they move on to Chicago or Iowa City, based on the direction one is travelling.

[Beltway]

Even worse when Quad Cities doesn't even mean 4 cities!!!
In this case, just use Davenport as the main city, then afterwords use one of the other cities along the route if necessary. But the reality I would suspect is they move on to Chicago or Iowa City, based on the direction one is travelling.

Using "I-80 West - Iowa" in Indiana points you due west and beyond Illinois, which is probably good enough given the smallness of those cities.

[PAHighways]

The PA Turnpike is signed using Youngstown OH as a control city on US 19 at the Cranberry Interchange (This might be PennDOT's doing, though).
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6817443,-80.1006858,3a,75y,184.52h,89.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss4z0Nc1DtZoFsNIyuqgMdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Signage for the Turnpike on PennDOT roadways in western Pennsylvania almost always uses actual control cities such as on SR 3091 in New Stanton.  One deviation is in Monroeville on I-376 and US 22 where Ohio is used, just as on the PTC's own Toll I-376.

There are places on the mainline where actual control cities are used such as before both New Stanton and Irwin heading westbound, unlike the "Ohio and West" which was used at Exit 57 until the gantry was taken down.

[tylert120]

The PA Turnpike is signed using Youngstown OH as a control city on US 19 at the Cranberry Interchange (This might be PennDOT's doing, though).
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6817443,-80.1006858,3a,75y,184.52h,89.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss4z0Nc1DtZoFsNIyuqgMdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Signage for the Turnpike on PennDOT roadways in western Pennsylvania almost always uses actual control cities such as on SR 3091 in New Stanton.  One deviation is in Monroeville on I-376 and US 22 where Ohio is used, just as on the PTC's own Toll I-376.

There are places on the mainline where actual control cities are used such as before both New Stanton and Irwin heading westbound, unlike the "Ohio and West" which was used at Exit 57 until the gantry was taken down.

It is that Monroeville/Pittsburgh and Irwin/McKeesport signage that really was behind my original question. That type of signing makes much more sense to me than Harrisburg and Ohio. Especially because that's on all the signage in the Pittsburgh area, no matter the exit.

[D-Dey65]

New idea; I was checking out Steve Alps' page on the abandoned Pennsylvania Turnpike in the Breezewood area (nice work, BTW), as well as Google Street Views of the old turnpike. And I have to say that if the Pike2Bike group takes over the whole ROW, there ought to be new parking areas along the turnpike where the old turnpike splits off. Something that would include a pedestrian/cycling bridge over the turnpike between the two parking areas and bike racks both westbound and eastbound.

A couple of other things; The two links to Brian Troutman's Abandoned PA Turnpike, and The Abandoned Pennsylvania Turnpike Website are dead, and the Historic Aerials maps of Breezewood blocks a lot of areas for some stupid reason.

One other question; was there ever an eastbound off-ramp to US 30 east of I-70? Because it looks like it here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.013577,-78.200836,690m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

I should probably get some shots of the stubs in the vicinity too.

[PAHighways]

One other question; was there ever an eastbound off-ramp to US 30 east of I-76? Because it looks like it here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.013577,-78.200836,690m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

It was not, but rather the former path of US 30 before the tunnel bypass was constructed.  On it was located a traveler's rest stop called "Bill's Place" which was demolished for the new Turnpike.

[briantroutman]

And I have to say that if the Pike2Bike group takes over the whole ROW, there ought to be new parking areas along the turnpike where the old turnpike splits off. Something that would include a pedestrian/cycling bride over the turnpike between the two parking areas and bike racks both westbound and eastbound.

"Pike2Bike"  never was a formal group with the ability to take over anything–just a loose, informal association of nearby property owners who'd periodically volunteer to pick up debris or keep a lookout for dangerous conditions and illegal activity. From 2003 up through 2018, the Southern Alleghenies Conservancy had been the legal owner, but the organization didn't have anywhere near the financial or human resources to actually do anything with the property. And perhaps more importantly, SAC was too small and too private to qualify for grants from numerous possible public sources, further dimming any prospects for either preservation or redevelopment.

So as a result, the governments of both Bedford and Fulton counties came together two years ago to form a joint recreational authority (BFJRA) having the capacity to take ownership of the Abandoned Turnpike from SAC for the purposes of redeveloping it. Plans include building parking areas and formal trailheads at both ends. The Breezewood parking area would be build on the currently PTC-owned stub behind the former Ramada Inn and a new pedestrian/bicycle bridge built over US 30 to connect it to the remainder of the property. Apparently, the BFJRA scored a $1 million grant last year.

Here is the (I believe current version of) the master plan.

A couple of other things; The two links to Brian Troutman's Abandoned PA Turnpike...are dead

Do you know what URL it was linking to? My 15-year-old Abandoned Turnpike pages are still online. (Though they really need to be updated and overhauled–or put out of their misery.)

[Mr. Matté]

Speaking of the abandoned turnpike, it looks like some time between late September (when I was there) and whenever the below video was taken (posted this past January), the western portal of Rays Hill got some fresh surface course, a double yellow center line, and a pair of fog lines! Is this the start of some sort of full-scale resurfacing for the entire trail? I've also seen pictures from after September where new warning signs were posted on the tunnel faces.

https://youtu.be/EMDj_x9xZ54?t=597 (10:21 in)

[D-Dey65]

Do you know what URL it was linking to? My 15-year-old Abandoned Turnpike pages are still online. (Though they really need to be updated and overhauled–or put out of their misery.)

This one:
http://www.briantroutman.com/highways/abandonedpaturnpike

That other site that's not yours, I still have to check on.

[Gnutella]

I have a question regarding the Turnpike's control cities. It seems PTC always uses cities that are quite far at tool booths. For example, at the Allegheny Valley interchange, they use Harrisburg and Ohio. To me, it would make much more sense to use Monroeville and Irwin instead of Harrisburg, and Cranberry and Beaver instead of Ohio. I could see even using Harrisburg and Ohio as the secondary city, but as primary cities, it just seems odd to me. Is there a reason for this? Also, I could be wrong, but doesn't the MUTCD prohibit the use of state names as control cities?

https://goo.gl/maps/aCLFXrDeWGAxoWki7

Generally, most highway's entrance ramps don't list the next exit's towns.  Highways Control Cities are designed to direct people towards larger cities.

Westbound is slightly problematic because the Ohio Turnpike bypasses Youngstown, Akron, and Cleveland without serving any of them directly.

Note: The PA Turnpike doesn't serve Harrisburg directly either. 

It's not absolutely necessary for a highway to go into the control city's town.  Youngstown is decent, although I would prefer Cleveland, even though that involves continuing from I-76 to I-80.

In the Northeast and Midwest, I think it'd be good to double up on the control cities, honestly, due to the number of major and decent-sized cities. On the Turnpike in the Pittsburgh area, I'd double up and use Youngstown/Cleveland as the westbound control cities, and Harrisburg/Philadelphia as the eastbound control cities. Also, in the Philadelphia area, I'd double up and use Harrisburg/Pittsburgh as the westbound control cities. That way, you're tying both ends of the Commonwealth together.

In the Harrisburg area, though, only one control city is needed: Pittsburgh westbound and Philadelphia eastbound. Also, I'd drop Cleveland as a westbound control city in New Stanton. Cleveland doesn't need to become a control city until Pittsburgh. Washington PA/Columbus are fine as double control cities westbound on I-70, though, because Columbus is the next major city on the route.

Also, on I-376 eastbound near the Turnpike in Monroeville, a TO I-70 East Baltimore/Washington DC trailblazer is a good idea, as is a TO I-70 West Wheeling WV/Columbus trailblazer on I-376 westbound near I-79. Lastly, I'd rename Exits 28 and 57 on the Turnpike as Pittsburgh North and Pittsburgh East, respectively.

[SignBridge]

I agree that two control cities might be a good idea in many places if sign space permits which is often not the case. But note, the MUTCD's specs call for a sign to show route shield, direction and next control city on the route, period. The purpose being just enough info with brevity to make the sign easily readable at highway speeds. And I agree that message overloading is a common problem in many areas of the country, especially around the big cities with complex interchanges.

[ixnay]

I have a question regarding the Turnpike's control cities. It seems PTC always uses cities that are quite far at tool booths. For example, at the Allegheny Valley interchange, they use Harrisburg and Ohio. To me, it would make much more sense to use Monroeville and Irwin instead of Harrisburg, and Cranberry and Beaver instead of Ohio. I could see even using Harrisburg and Ohio as the secondary city, but as primary cities, it just seems odd to me. Is there a reason for this? Also, I could be wrong, but doesn't the MUTCD prohibit the use of state names as control cities?

https://goo.gl/maps/aCLFXrDeWGAxoWki7

Generally, most highway's entrance ramps don't list the next exit's towns.  Highways Control Cities are designed to direct people towards larger cities.

Westbound is slightly problematic because the Ohio Turnpike bypasses Youngstown, Akron, and Cleveland without serving any of them directly.

Note: The PA Turnpike doesn't serve Harrisburg directly either. 

It's not absolutely necessary for a highway to go into the control city's town.  Youngstown is decent, although I would prefer Cleveland, even though that involves continuing from I-76 to I-80.

In the Northeast and Midwest, I think it'd be good to double up on the control cities, honestly, due to the number of major and decent-sized cities. On the Turnpike in the Pittsburgh area, I'd double up and use Youngstown/Cleveland as the westbound control cities, and Harrisburg/Philadelphia as the eastbound control cities. Also, in the Philadelphia area, I'd double up and use Harrisburg/Pittsburgh as the westbound control cities. That way, you're tying both ends of the Commonwealth together.

In the Harrisburg area, though, only one control city is needed: Pittsburgh westbound and Philadelphia eastbound. Also, I'd drop Cleveland as a westbound control city in New Stanton. Cleveland doesn't need to become a control city until Pittsburgh. Washington PA/Columbus are fine as double control cities westbound on I-70, though, because Columbus is the next major city on the route.

Also, on I-376 eastbound near the Turnpike in Monroeville, a TO I-70 East Baltimore/Washington DC trailblazer is a good idea, as is a TO I-70 West Wheeling WV/Columbus trailblazer on I-376 westbound near I-79. Lastly, I'd rename Exits 28 and 57 on the Turnpike as Pittsburgh North and Pittsburgh East, respectively.

The PTC actually did that for a while at the Norristown and Valley Forge entrances, in fact tripling up ("Harrisburg/Pittsburgh/and Ohio").  Didn't somebody on this forum link one of those signs a while back?

ixnay

[Gnutella]

Good news: Three weeks ago, there was a public meeting about the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project in Somerset. They now have the exact alignments for all three corridors designed, both as a "cut" and a tunnel, and color coded: brown for a north alignment, gray for the south alignment, and yellow for an alignment closest to the existing tunnel.

The brown tunnel would be the most expensive tunnel to construct, and the brown cut would be the most expensive cut to construct. The gray tunnel would be the least expensive tunnel to construct, and the yellow cut would be the least expensive cut to construct. The yellow tunnel would be the most expensive tunnel to maintain, but the yellow cut would be the least expensive cut to maintain. The gray tunnel would be the least expensive tunnel to maintain, but the gray cut would be the most expensive cut to maintain.

Finally, there appears to be some real movement on this project after five or six years of delays.

[Alps]

Good news: Three weeks ago, there was a public meeting about the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project in Somerset. They now have the exact alignments for all three corridors designed, both as a "cut" and a tunnel, and color coded: brown for a north alignment, gray for the south alignment, and yellow for an alignment closest to the existing tunnel.

The brown tunnel would be the most expensive tunnel to construct, and the brown cut would be the most expensive cut to construct. The gray tunnel would be the least expensive tunnel to construct, and the yellow cut would be the least expensive cut to construct. The yellow tunnel would be the most expensive tunnel to maintain, but the yellow cut would be the least expensive cut to maintain. The gray tunnel would be the least expensive tunnel to maintain, but the gray cut would be the most expensive cut to maintain.

Finally, there appears to be some real movement on this project after five or six years of delays.

Cuts don't require much money to maintain if done properly. Gray seems to be the most environmentally conscious and yellow seems to be the straightest. Brown is in there to show they looked at three alternatives. I find it interesting they need a new tunnel here. They have two tunnels. I see the curves, but really?

[Gnutella]

Good news: Three weeks ago, there was a public meeting about the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project in Somerset. They now have the exact alignments for all three corridors designed, both as a "cut" and a tunnel, and color coded: brown for a north alignment, gray for the south alignment, and yellow for an alignment closest to the existing tunnel.

The brown tunnel would be the most expensive tunnel to construct, and the brown cut would be the most expensive cut to construct. The gray tunnel would be the least expensive tunnel to construct, and the yellow cut would be the least expensive cut to construct. The yellow tunnel would be the most expensive tunnel to maintain, but the yellow cut would be the least expensive cut to maintain. The gray tunnel would be the least expensive tunnel to maintain, but the gray cut would be the most expensive cut to maintain.

Finally, there appears to be some real movement on this project after five or six years of delays.

Cuts don't require much money to maintain if done properly. Gray seems to be the most environmentally conscious and yellow seems to be the straightest. Brown is in there to show they looked at three alternatives. I find it interesting they need a new tunnel here. They have two tunnels. I see the curves, but really?

The existing tunnel is a bottleneck during the summer travel season. They want to expand the Turnpike to six lanes. They can't do that with the existing tunnel.