Speed enforcement and tolerance

[mrsman]

Much of the above discussion regarding ticketing deals with enforcement and tolerances for cops pulling you over.

A parallel discussion can be had with regards to automatic/camera enforcement - although not much discussion exists because the issues are more finite.

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.  Of course, many jurisdictions will purposefully lower their speed limits by 5 MPH so that the camera will essentially be strict enforcement at the old limits.

The state of MD allows for speed cameras with a tolearnce of 11 MPH.  Go 12 over, and you get a ticket.  The cameras exist at school zones and on freeways where there is a work zone.  (For whatever reason, Montgomery County (where I live) allows cameras even in non-school zones.  gggrh.)

Based on my own observations locally, given that the cameras allow for a tolerance of about 11 MPH, the cops do as well - but there are exceptions, so if you speed, you do so at your own risk.

[epzik8]

I've gotten three slaps on the wrist from county cops on county roads in Harford County, Maryland.

[NWI_Irish96]

I've never been pulled over for anything less than 11 mph over the speed limit in Indiana.

[kphoger]

[stuff about keeping right on a busy six-lane highway]

Here's how I look at it:

1.  If you're never in the right lane because traffic is actually merging/diverging in the right lane, such that it's always full of slower traffic, then that's great.

2.  If you're never in the right lane because there's a possibility that might might need merge/diverge, then you're just being lazy–tightly spaced exits or not.

During my regular commute on a six-lane highway, (that includes a 3-mile stretch with 4 off-ramps and 5 on-ramps), some days I'm never in the right lane, because I'm actually passing other drivers or letting them in.  However, occasionally, I can do the whole commute without leaving the right lane;  sometimes, that's because traffic is really light right then, but other times it's because there are a dozen drivers who are in the middle lane for no reason.  Lazy bums.

[LM117]

Going exactly the limit also robs the officer of a potential pretext for a speculative stop, though. An officer could theoretically stop you for a stated reason of 1 mph over if they wanted to stick their head in the window and look for something to nail you on. If you're going exactly the limit and there's nothing else wrong with your car that could be a pretext for a stop, they can think it's suspicious all they want but all they can do about it is run your plate.

And apparently, you have to do the EXACT speed limit in Sampson County, NC. Ya know, because driving 5mph under the speed limit is suspicious...

https://www.wral.com/run-in-with-sampson-deputy-leaves-driver-feeling-unsafe/18953226/

[webny99]

[stuff about keeping right on a busy six-lane highway]

Here's how I look at it:

1.  If you're never in the right lane because traffic is actually merging/diverging in the right lane, such that it's always full of slower traffic, then that's great.

2.  If you're never in the right lane because there's a possibility that might might need merge/diverge, then you're just being lazy–tightly spaced exits or not.

It should come as no surprise that I don't disagree with any of that.

However, especially at busy times of day, it would be forgiveable for someone not to move left and right for every exit. There is such thing as taking KRETP too far. I should know: I start to relax my insistence on KRETP just a tad after a few people commented on it with the framing that I "change lanes all the time".

[kphoger]

What's wrong with changing lanes all the time?

[webny99]

What's wrong with changing lanes all the time?

Nothing, so long as you're not cutting people off. But many people see it as erratic, aggressive behavior.

Some of my family has concluded that I do it on road trips to keep myself awake. It's easy enough just to let them think that.

[Flint1979]

What's wrong with changing lanes all the time?

I don't see anything wrong with it. I change lanes a lot. I stay in the lane that has the furthest distance to the car in front of me so I'm changing lanes a lot.

[CtrlAltDel]

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.

I am. The speed cameras in I-380 in Cedar Rapids IA give a $25 ticket for 1 to 5 miles over the limit:

[interstatefan990]

What's wrong with changing lanes all the time?

It's simple math. More lane changes = higher chance of cutting someone off or a collision.

[vdeane]

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.  Of course, many jurisdictions will purposefully lower their speed limits by 5 MPH so that the camera will essentially be strict enforcement at the old limits.

Isn't DC famous for being blanketed with speed cameras that have no tolerance?

[jakeroot]

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.  Of course, many jurisdictions will purposefully lower their speed limits by 5 MPH so that the camera will essentially be strict enforcement at the old limits.

Isn't DC famous for being blanketed with speed cameras that have no tolerance?

I have driven around DC extensively and cannot recall any speed cameras. If there are any, they're very selectively placed.

[jakeroot]

What's wrong with changing lanes all the time?

It's simple math. More lane changes = higher chance of cutting someone off or a collision.

Ostensibly, yes. But intentionally changing lanes either rarely, or never, will likely increase the need for those around you to change lanes in response to your desire to not change lanes.

[kphoger]

Yeah, encouraging faster traffic to jump into the right lane is, in my opinion, more dangerous than just moving over yourself.

[jmacswimmer]

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.  Of course, many jurisdictions will purposefully lower their speed limits by 5 MPH so that the camera will essentially be strict enforcement at the old limits.

Isn't DC famous for being blanketed with speed cameras that have no tolerance?

I have driven around DC extensively and cannot recall any speed cameras. If there are any, they're very selectively placed.

https://opendata.dc.gov/datasets/camera-enforcement-locations?geometry=-77.451%2C38.804%2C-76.580%2C38.991

(I think that map also includes red light cameras, but....still.  The ones I'm most aware of are on DC 295, this one in particular has quite the reputation.)

[jakeroot]

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.  Of course, many jurisdictions will purposefully lower their speed limits by 5 MPH so that the camera will essentially be strict enforcement at the old limits.

Isn't DC famous for being blanketed with speed cameras that have no tolerance?

I have driven around DC extensively and cannot recall any speed cameras. If there are any, they're very selectively placed.

https://opendata.dc.gov/datasets/camera-enforcement-locations?geometry=-77.451%2C38.804%2C-76.580%2C38.991

(I think that map also includes red light cameras, but....still.  The ones I'm most aware of are on DC 295, this one in particular has quite the reputation.)

The one on 295 is the only one I could think of.

My experience is mostly right in the middle of the District. And that map confirms that Washington Circle has the only speed camera right in the "heart" of the district. Most are red light cameras. But there are definitely speed cameras in the fringes of the District, many of which I was not aware of. So thank you for that map.

[interstatefan990]

What's wrong with changing lanes all the time?

It's simple math. More lane changes = higher chance of cutting someone off or a collision.

But intentionally changing lanes either rarely, or never, will likely increase the need for those around you to change lanes in response to your desire to not change lanes.

Not if everyone just uses the correct lane for their speed and adjusts their positioning on the road correctly. As long as slower drivers stay right and merging vehicles properly adjust to traffic, there should only be an occasional need for a lane change.

[sprjus4]

So what happens when a 25 mph loop comes onto the mainline with a short acceleration lane? You have to have a lot of power to go from 25-30 to 60+ in under 1,000 feet.

[kphoger]

Not if everyone just uses the correct lane for their speed ...

What does this even mean?  What lane is "the correct lane" for driving 63 mph on a 60 mph highway?  Well, obviously, that depends on the speed of all the other vehicles around you.  One minute, you might be "slower traffic", and three minutes later you might be "faster traffic".

[doorknob60]

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.

I am. The speed cameras in I-380 in Cedar Rapids IA give a $25 ticket for 1 to 5 miles over the limit:

I'm not a local so someone more familiar may chime in here, but I'm not convinced that's accurate. Here's a recent article that seems to indicate a 12 MPH tolerance. https://www.thegazette.com/government-politics/cedar-rapids-traffic-camera-tickets-declining-but-on-pace-to-double-revenue-projection/

[hotdogPi]

The solution is to go between 5 and 6 mph over, or between 10 and 11, or between 20 and 21. Notice that you do not have this leeway between 25 and 26.

[CtrlAltDel]

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.

I am. The speed cameras in I-380 in Cedar Rapids IA give a $25 ticket for 1 to 5 miles over the limit:

I'm not a local so someone more familiar may chime in here, but I'm not convinced that's accurate. Here's a recent article that seems to indicate a 12 MPH tolerance. https://www.thegazette.com/government-politics/cedar-rapids-traffic-camera-tickets-declining-but-on-pace-to-double-revenue-projection/

It seems that that 12 mph leeway is how it works in practice. For what it's worth, though, my information came direct from the city's municipal code, which offers no tolerance, as far as I can tell.

[interstatefan990]

Not if everyone just uses the correct lane for their speed ...

What does this even mean?  What lane is "the correct lane" for driving 63 mph on a 60 mph highway?  Well, obviously, that depends on the speed of all the other vehicles around you.  One minute, you might be "slower traffic", and three minutes later you might be "faster traffic".

You just answered your own question. If traffic is moving faster and you're going slower, you keep right, and vice versa with keeping left. Sometimes the "correct" lane for your speed changes, especially at the beginnings and ends of speed zones.

[mrsman]

I am not aware of any camera that doesn't give a driver at least a 5 MPH tolerance.  Of course, many jurisdictions will purposefully lower their speed limits by 5 MPH so that the camera will essentially be strict enforcement at the old limits.

Isn't DC famous for being blanketed with speed cameras that have no tolerance?

Couldn't find anything official, a lot of broken links on DDOT's site.  But here is an artice from 2012:

https://dcist.com/story/12/08/29/even-dcs-traffic-cameras-tolerate-a/

You know that old claim that a police officer will let you slide if you’re only speeding less than 10 miles over the speed limit? Well, MPD’s got a little secret—the same tolerance applies to tickets given out by many of the city’s speeding cameras.

At yesterday’s task force meeting on traffic cameras and fines, Lisa Sutter, MPD’s Program Manager for the Photo Enforcement Program, said that between 75 and 80 percent of all tickets given out by the cameras are for speeding between 11-15 miles an hour over the posted speed limit ($125 fine), and 17 to 20 percent are for those driving between 16 and 20 miles an hour over the limit ($150 fine). But for those caught driving between 1 and 10 miles an hour above the limit ($75 fine), she said during the meeting, tickets are rarely sent out to the offender.

The insidious aspect of DC's cameras isn't the tolerance, it's the placement.  There are speed cameras on expressways.  I-395 through Downtown has a speed limit of 40, with camera enforcement. 

Here's a pic of that sign. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8824535,-77.0165684,3a,75y,261.34h,78.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sROLo1fWGfD_91fjSIFViQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Southern part of I-295, a relatively empty freeway, has cameras with a speed limit of 50.

As is common in other areas, there are also surface streets with artificially lower speed limits, but the freeways are the most egregious.

I am not alone that this is a money grab by DDOT, especially against MD and VA commuters as a good number of the cameras tend to be close to the district line and are along major commuter corridors.  Congress prohibited DC from collecting a commuter tax, so they are using the speed cameras to collect such tax indirectly.