Rural Freeways That Need Six Lanes

[ftballfan]

I-65 between the northern fringe of Nashville and the KY line. It seems like there's always a traffic jam of some kind in that stretch!

Also, I-65 between Indy and the Louisville suburbs (at least there is some work going on to widen some stretches).

It's already six lanes, but I-4 from Exit 55 eastward could use another pair of lanes

[sprjus4]

It's already six lanes, but I-4 from Exit 55 eastward could use another pair of lanes

Something needs to be done about I-4 in the vicinity of FL-429 and FL-417. That area is a major chokepoint daily.

FL-417 needs to be widened to 6 lanes throughout, and FL-429 at least south of FL-414.

Also upgrade the "gap" in freeway segments along FL-414 and widen to 6 lanes throughout to provide a continuous "cutover" to I-4 from the western beltway.

[SkyPesos]

Also, I-65 between Indy and the Louisville suburbs (at least there is some work going on to widen some stretches).

I think the section between Indy and Chicago is a slightly higher priority for 6 lane than Indy-Louisville from the amount of traffic and trucks I see when driving on it.
Though I have never been on the section of I-65 between Indy and Louisville, always switched from 65 S to 74 E past Indy and 65 N to 71 N past Louisville, so lmk if I'm underestimating the traffic counts and if it's really higher than Indy-Chicago.

[Revive 755]

Also, I-65 between Indy and the Louisville suburbs (at least there is some work going on to widen some stretches).

I think the section between Indy and Chicago is a slightly higher priority for 6 lane than Indy-Louisville from the amount of traffic and trucks I see when driving on it.

Aren't there more active widening projects on the Indy-Lousiville section than Indy-Chicagoland section?

North of Indy there's at least the US 52-US 41 corridor as a four lane alternative but with a number of slow towns and the major slowdowns around Lafayette and north of St. John.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Also, I-65 between Indy and the Louisville suburbs (at least there is some work going on to widen some stretches).

I think the section between Indy and Chicago is a slightly higher priority for 6 lane than Indy-Louisville from the amount of traffic and trucks I see when driving on it.

Aren't there more active widening projects on the Indy-Lousiville section than Indy-Chicagoland section?

North of Indy there's at least the US 52-US 41 corridor as a four lane alternative but with a number of slow towns and the major slowdowns around Lafayette and north of St. John.

Yes, from what I can tell, INDOT has plans to widen another section of I-65 on the Indy-Louisville section from MP 16-29 (Scottsburg)... I guess that they are doing the Indy-Louisville section first before the Indy-Chicagoland section...

[Flint1979]

Also, I-65 between Indy and the Louisville suburbs (at least there is some work going on to widen some stretches).

I think the section between Indy and Chicago is a slightly higher priority for 6 lane than Indy-Louisville from the amount of traffic and trucks I see when driving on it.
Though I have never been on the section of I-65 between Indy and Louisville, always switched from 65 S to 74 E past Indy and 65 N to 71 N past Louisville, so lmk if I'm underestimating the traffic counts and if it's really higher than Indy-Chicago.

You could do a trip like I do and just make a loop. Start in Cincinnati, go to Louisville, go back up to Indy then come back across to Cincinnati.

[jakeroot]

It looks like there is only about 27 miles remaining of I-5 between Portland and Seattle that's still four lanes. I imagine this would be a priority for widening, but are there any plans to widen this segment, and how badly is it needed?

I couldn't tell you whether it was a priority or not, but provisions have been made at new and upgraded interchanges in that stretch for two additional lanes. Ellsbury Street in Centralia and Chamber of Commerce Way in Chehalis are two examples of this.

The only real obstacle is the Cowlitz River and Skookumchuck River bridges, which would both need replacing, and maybe a couple of overpasses. The RIRO southwest of Toledo would likely need replacing for safety reasons as well, I would suspect.

[webny99]

The only real obstacle is the Cowlitz River and Skookumchuck River bridges, which would both need replacing, and maybe a couple of overpasses. The RIRO southwest of Toledo would likely need replacing for safety reasons as well, I would suspect.

Hmm. Yeah, that RIRO would definitely have to be addressed, possibly in tandem with the Cowlitz River bridge. This is probably a naïve suggestion, but why not just remove that interchange entirely? A new overpass in place of the RIRO (connecting WA 506 to Mulford Rd) would make things easier for local traffic by eliminating the long loop to get around the freeway, and traffic wanting to get on I-5 could just use Exit 60.

[Bruce]

The six-lane section has been creeping south from the edge of Tumwater for a few decades now, so it will happen eventually (but the money isn't there, especially with the Columbia River crossing coming up).

[jakeroot]

I suppose the best thing would be to six-lane I-5 from Oregon to BC in one fell swoop. Package the widening into a larger bill that would reconstruct the entire remaining 80-ish miles, with the focal points being reconstruction in Mt Vernon and Bellingham; those two cities easily present the biggest hurdle, even when considering bridge replacements.

[Bruce]

I suppose the best thing would be to six-lane I-5 from Oregon to BC in one fell swoop. Package the widening into a larger bill that would reconstruct the entire remaining 80-ish miles, with the focal points being reconstruction in Mt Vernon and Bellingham; those two cities easily present the biggest hurdle, even when considering bridge replacements.

Mt Vernon doesn't get congested enough to warrant trying to cram 6 lanes into its downtown, even with Tulip Festival traffic. I'd rather see those billions spent on more Cascades service.

[sprjus4]

I'd rather see those billions spent on more Cascades service.

That seems like a waste of money if anything. Pouring billions of dollars into rail service that will likely get underutilized.

Traffic volumes through Mt Vernon almost reach 80,000 AADT, with a sustained volume well over 50,000 AADT along the rest of the route.

Widening would likely go a much longer way to addressing heavy traffic demand.

[jakeroot]

I suppose the best thing would be to six-lane I-5 from Oregon to BC in one fell swoop. Package the widening into a larger bill that would reconstruct the entire remaining 80-ish miles, with the focal points being reconstruction in Mt Vernon and Bellingham; those two cities easily present the biggest hurdle, even when considering bridge replacements.

Mt Vernon doesn't get congested enough to warrant trying to cram 6 lanes into its downtown, even with Tulip Festival traffic. I'd rather see those billions spent on more Cascades service.

The stretch through Burlington and Mt Vernon averages around 75k AADT, which is actually more than many existing six-lane stretches elsewhere along I-5 (south of Tumwater for instance). Combined with the frequent exit/entrance ramps, and tight inside shoulder, I think rebuilding I-5 through that stretch should at least be a consideration. (edit: I see sprjus4 also addressed this).

The hardest to justify stretch would probably be north of Bellingham. North of Ferndale, the AADT is about half of the quietest stretches of I-5 elsewhere in WA.

[webny99]

Mt Vernon doesn't get congested enough to warrant trying to cram 6 lanes into its downtown, even with Tulip Festival traffic. I'd rather see those billions spent on more Cascades service.

The stretch through Burlington and Mt Vernon averages around 75k AADT, which is actually more than many existing six-lane stretches elsewhere along I-5 (south of Tumwater for instance). Combined with the frequent exit/entrance ramps, and tight inside shoulder, I think rebuilding I-5 through that stretch should at least be a consideration.

I have to agree - 75K is a lot, especially in a rural/semi-rural area (although I know development is a bit more dense in/around Mount Vernon). That's very comparable to the section of I-490 southeast of Rochester between Exits 25 and 27 that I have frequently mentioned as needing to be widened.

[sprjus4]

Not to mention, what are the truck volumes on that segment of I-5? If they're on the higher end, then it definitely needs expansion.

[SkyPesos]

Two Ohio ones from me:
- I-75 between exit 74 in Troy and exit 156 in Findlay. Truck traffic on I-75 is high in general.
- I-71 between exit 28 in Lebanon and exit 97 in Grove City. There is a short 6 lane section near the US 35 exit, which could be extended on both sides. Also, the new Jeremiah Morrow Bridge have space on the left for a 3rd lane in each direction in the future.

[jakeroot]

Not to mention, what are the truck volumes on that segment of I-5? If they're on the higher end, then it definitely needs expansion.

I don't know the exact volumes, but it's a significant amount tying directly into the Canadian border.

[Avalanchez71]

I-65 between the northern fringe of Nashville and the KY line. It seems like there's always a traffic jam of some kind in that stretch!

Also, I-65 between Indy and the Louisville suburbs (at least there is some work going on to widen some stretches).

It's already six lanes, but I-4 from Exit 55 eastward could use another pair of lanes

Our gas tax is already through the roof.  Where is this money going to come from?  The four lanes of I-65 from KY to Goodlettsville is sufficient.

[sprjus4]

I-65 between the northern fringe of Nashville and the KY line. It seems like there's always a traffic jam of some kind in that stretch!

Also, I-65 between Indy and the Louisville suburbs (at least there is some work going on to widen some stretches).

It's already six lanes, but I-4 from Exit 55 eastward could use another pair of lanes

Our gas tax is already through the roof.  Where is this money going to come from?  The four lanes of I-65 from KY to Goodlettsville is sufficient.

It's a 6 lane gap that needs to be filled sticking out like a sore thumb. I mean, come on.

[michravera]

I suppose the best thing would be to six-lane I-5 from Oregon to BC in one fell swoop. Package the widening into a larger bill that would reconstruct the entire remaining 80-ish miles, with the focal points being reconstruction in Mt Vernon and Bellingham; those two cities easily present the biggest hurdle, even when considering bridge replacements.

While we're about it, how about at least 6 lanes all of the way from Mexico to Canada except possibly for short distances around major splits? (and those should go to 6+lanes after the diverted traffic gets out of visual range. I'm talking about something from a couple of hundred meters to maybe a kilometer or two -- at most for one exit or so)
I-5 needs six lanes soon after the NB exit for CASR-99, but I'm not sure that the two of them together need to be twelve lanes at that point. 8 is probably enough for an exit or two. Same thing goes for just after the NB exit for I-580. A similar situation happens after the SB exit for I-205.

[CtrlAltDel]

Our gas tax is already through the roof.  Where is this money going to come from?  The four lanes of I-65 from KY to Goodlettsville is sufficient.

I know this is your schtick, but just for the record, the gas tax in Tennessee is 27.6 cents a gallon, which is 19% below the national state average of 34.2.

[Avalanchez71]

Our gas tax is already through the roof.  Where is this money going to come from?  The four lanes of I-65 from KY to Goodlettsville is sufficient.

I know this is your schtick, but just for the record, the gas tax in Tennessee is 27.6 cents a gallon, which is 19% below the national state average of 34.2.

It was raised in 2018.  The former Chairman of the House Transportation Committee lost his seat in a primary.  He is a road builder by the way.  No conflict of interest there.

[CtrlAltDel]

Our gas tax is already through the roof.  Where is this money going to come from?  The four lanes of I-65 from KY to Goodlettsville is sufficient.

I know this is your schtick, but just for the record, the gas tax in Tennessee is 27.6 cents a gallon, which is 19% below the national state average of 34.2.

It was raised in 2018.  The former Chairman of the House Transportation Committee lost his seat in a primary.  He is a road builder by the way.  No conflict of interest there.

My point is that the gas tax in Tennessee is not "through the roof" regardless of how that tax came to be implemented.

[Bruce]

The federal gas tax has been stagnant for decades and it's been left to the states to increase it to keep pace with rising construction costs. Maybe y'all should join the $3/gal club so that projects can actually get funded.

[stevashe]

It looks like there is only about 27 miles remaining of I-5 between Portland and Seattle that's still four lanes. I imagine this would be a priority for widening, but are there any plans to widen this segment, and how badly is it needed?

I couldn't tell you whether it was a priority or not, but provisions have been made at new and upgraded interchanges in that stretch for two additional lanes. Ellsbury Street in Centralia and Chamber of Commerce Way in Chehalis are two examples of this.

The only real obstacle is the Cowlitz River and Skookumchuck River bridges, which would both need replacing, and maybe a couple of overpasses. The RIRO southwest of Toledo would likely need replacing for safety reasons as well, I would suspect.

WSDOT is considering widening I-5 between Mellen St in Centralia and Main St/SR 6 in Chehalis, we'll have to wait and see what they decide on. Really this is the main area that would need widening anyway, at least in the short term. The rest of the segment doesn't really experience any congestion issues at this point.

With regards to the work needed to close the gap, I was actually surprised when driving it recently by just how many times it's broken up by auxiliary lanes and climbing lanes. Currently these segments have three lanes in at least one direction:

• Exit 76 to Exit 72 (both directions)
• Exit 71 to Exit 68 (SB climbing lane)
• Exit 63 to 1 mile north (NB climbing lane)
• Exit 59 to Exit 60 (NB climbing lane)

All those interruptions mean that the longest continuous segment with 4 lanes is only 6.5 miles!