Rural Freeways That Need Six Lanes

[skluth]

Six lanes in rural areas just kills the rural character of the area.

If so, how does four lanes not kill the rural character of the area?

I agree. It's not really the number of lanes. To me, it's more about the width of the ROW, or more precisely, the width of the median.

In Europe, where ROW is really expensive, you have six-lane motorways but with very narrow medians. Total horizontal width is usually less, or equal to, a typical four-lane rural freeway in the US:

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes. This interstate in central Illinois has six lanes, plus a frontage road, a railroad, and a coal conveyor run parallel to it through the same fields. I've driven it countless times and it's always felt rural.

The poster does have a point about how highways and railroads interfere with animal migration. More needs to be done in making sure animals can safely migrate by maintaining some level of separation. Wildlife overpasses and underpasses along with low long bridges rather than causeways through swamps are vitally important in keeping animal diversity strong, especially with larger mammals. A lot of people think this is only for rural areas, but many suburban areas support a lot of wildlife.

I realize this costs money in the short run. However, it saves lives - both animal and human - along with all the benefits associated with a more diverse ecosystem.

[Flint1979]

Six lanes in rural areas just kills the rural character of the area.

If so, how does four lanes not kill the rural character of the area?

I agree. It's not really the number of lanes. To me, it's more about the width of the ROW, or more precisely, the width of the median.

In Europe, where ROW is really expensive, you have six-lane motorways but with very narrow medians. Total horizontal width is usually less, or equal to, a typical four-lane rural freeway in the US:

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes. This interstate in central Illinois has six lanes, plus a frontage road, a railroad, and a coal conveyor run parallel to it through the same fields. I've driven it countless times and it's always felt rural.

The poster does have a point about how highways and railroads interfere with animal migration. More needs to be done in making sure animals can safely migrate by maintaining some level of separation. Wildlife overpasses and underpasses along with low long bridges rather than causeways through swamps are vitally important in keeping animal diversity strong, especially with larger mammals. A lot of people think this is only for rural areas, but many suburban areas support a lot of wildlife.

I realize this costs money in the short run. However, it saves lives - both animal and human - along with all the benefits associated with a more diverse ecosystem.

I'm not sure if I would consider that road next to I-55 a frontage road because it doesn't serve any exits or anything. To me it looks like that was the original road and they just built the highway next to it.

[US 89]

Six lanes  in rural areas just kills the rural character of the area.

I'd be curious to know how this could be considered anything but rural.

[Beltway]

Six lanes  in rural areas just kills the rural character of the area.

I'd be curious to know how this could be considered anything but rural.

As well as this with a wide treed median.

[hobsini2]

Some of these may already be 6 lanes and I am just unaware of it. I'm sure some of these also have been mentioned but here's my list:
ILLINOIS
I-39
Baxter Rd to I-90 East (Rockford)
I-80 to ILL 71 (La Salle-Peru)

I-55
I-80 to Lorenzo Rd (Joliet area)
Bus 55 Sherman Blvd to Bus 55 6th St (Springfield)

I-57
I-80 to Monee-Manhattan Rd (Far South Suburbs)
Bourbonnais Pkwy to US 45, US 52 Schuyler Ave (Kankakee)
Market St to County Rd 1000 N (Champaign)
I-70 East to I-70 West (Effingham)
Exit 103 Dix to I-64 East Exit 92 (Mt Vernon)
Cedar Grove Rd to I-24 (Marion area)
US 51 Exit 25 to Mississippi River Bridge (Cairo area)

I-64
ILL 158 Air Mobility Dr to ILL 4 (East St Louis area)
I-57 North to ILL 142 (Mt Vernon)

I-70
US 40 Randolph St to US 40 Cumberland Rd (Vandalia)
I-57 South to I-57 North (Effingham)

I-72
Wabash Ave to Overpass Rd (Springfield)
US 36 East El Dorado St, US 51 South to ILL 48 22nd St (Decatur)

I-74
I-474 to Morton Ave (Morton)
US 45 Cunningham Ave to County Rd 1700E (Urbana)
US 150 Main St to IND 63 (Danville)

I-80
Mississippi River Bridge to I-74 (Quad Cities)
ILL 89 to ILL 178 (LaSalle-Peru)
ILL 47 to US 30 (Morris-Joliet)

I-155
I-74 to Broadway Rd (Morton)

[Flint1979]

Six lanes  in rural areas just kills the rural character of the area.

I'd be curious to know how this could be considered anything but rural.

I agree and that's what less than 20 miles or so from Vegas?

[vdeane]

I know in my case that I associate four lanes with rural and six lanes with urban/suburban simply because that's how it tends to be in NY.  We don't really have six lane rural freeways, and the examples we do have tend to be arguable for one reason or another.

[webny99]

Six lanes  in rural areas just kills the rural character of the area.

I'd be curious to know how this could be considered anything but rural.

I think maybe "dampens" is a better word than "kills" for what he's trying to say. If that was a four lane highway with a wider median and no jersey barrier (which I assume is what it used to be), it would "feel" more rural, and less like you must be near or approaching a large city.

I know in my case that I associate four lanes with rural and six lanes with urban/suburban simply because that's how it tends to be in NY.  We don't really have six lane rural freeways, and the examples we do have tend to be arguable for one reason or another.

Yes, same here, and if by "arguable" you mean as to whether the area is actually rural or not, then I agree. NY has nothing at all like I-15 in Nevada, I-75 in Georgia, or even I-95 in Maryland.

[vdeane]

Yes, same here, and if by "arguable" you mean as to whether the area is actually rural or not, then I agree. NY has nothing at all like I-15 in Nevada, I-75 in Georgia, or even I-95 in Maryland.

There might also be some such spots in NY 17 due to climbing lanes.  Not sure off the top of my head.

[hobsini2]

Oh because I recently drove it in Tennessee/Georgia and it was a pain in the arse, I-24 from US 27 North Exit 178 to US 72 Kimball Exit 152 at the very least.

[tribar]

Some of these may already be 6 lanes and I am just unaware of it. I'm sure some of these also have been mentioned but here's my list:
ILLINOIS
I-39
Baxter Rd to I-90 East (Rockford)
I-80 to ILL 71 (La Salle-Peru)

I-55
I-80 to Lorenzo Rd (Joliet area)
Bus 55 Sherman Blvd to Bus 55 6th St (Springfield)

I-57
I-80 to Monee-Manhattan Rd (Far South Suburbs)
Bourbonnais Pkwy to US 45, US 52 Schuyler Ave (Kankakee)
Market St to County Rd 1000 N (Champaign)
I-70 East to I-70 West (Effingham)
Exit 103 Dix to I-64 East Exit 92 (Mt Vernon)
Cedar Grove Rd to I-24 (Marion area)
US 51 Exit 25 to Mississippi River Bridge (Cairo area)

I-64
ILL 158 Air Mobility Dr to ILL 4 (East St Louis area)
I-57 North to ILL 142 (Mt Vernon)

I-70
US 40 Randolph St to US 40 Cumberland Rd (Vandalia)
I-57 South to I-57 North (Effingham)

I-72
Wabash Ave to Overpass Rd (Springfield)
US 36 East El Dorado St, US 51 South to ILL 48 22nd St (Decatur)

I-74
I-474 to Morton Ave (Morton)
US 45 Cunningham Ave to County Rd 1700E (Urbana)
US 150 Main St to IND 63 (Danville)

I-80
Mississippi River Bridge to I-74 (Quad Cities)
ILL 89 to ILL 178 (LaSalle-Peru)
ILL 47 to US 30 (Morris-Joliet)

I-155
I-74 to Broadway Rd (Morton)

As far as I know I-70/I-57 around Effingham is the only one of those that has been widened to 6 lanes.

[sprjus4]

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes.

They're about to convert a four-lane divided non-limited-access highway in South Texas with a wide median into a four-lane interstate highway by constructing the freeway lanes in the wide median. This will result in 40+ miles of two lanes in each direction with jersey barrier and no grassy median whatsoever in an isolated rural area. Even better, they're reserving right of way on the OUTSIDE for future 6-laning. Why not reserve on the inside, then have a 46 foot grassy median initially, then jersey barrier when 6-laned? It just makes more sense in my mind, and would keep a rural feel for decades to come, as that highway will not need widening anytime soon as far as I'm aware.

Gotta love TXDOT though!

[X99]

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes.

They're about to convert a four-lane divided non-limited-access highway in South Texas with a wide median into a four-lane interstate highway by constructing the freeway lanes in the wide median. This will result in 40+ miles of two lanes in each direction with jersey barrier and no grassy median whatsoever in an isolated rural area. Even better, they're reserving right of way on the OUTSIDE for future 6-laning. Why not reserve on the inside, then have a 46 foot grassy median initially, then jersey barrier when 6-laned? It just makes more sense in my mind, and would keep a rural feel for decades to come, as that highway will not need widening anytime soon as far as I'm aware.

Gotta love TXDOT though!

Is that 69E or 69C?

[webny99]

Yes, same here, and if by "arguable" you mean as to whether the area is actually rural or not, then I agree.

There might also be some such spots in NY 17 due to climbing lanes.  Not sure off the top of my head.

I don't believe there are any six lane segments (besides Goshen), at least not of a mile or more. The climbing lanes are almost always just one direction at a time.

[Paulinator66]

Some of these may already be 6 lanes and I am just unaware of it. I'm sure some of these also have been mentioned but here's my list:
ILLINOIS
I-39
Baxter Rd to I-90 East (Rockford)
I-80 to ILL 71 (La Salle-Peru)

I-55
I-80 to Lorenzo Rd (Joliet area)
Bus 55 Sherman Blvd to Bus 55 6th St (Springfield)

I-57
I-80 to Monee-Manhattan Rd (Far South Suburbs)
Bourbonnais Pkwy to US 45, US 52 Schuyler Ave (Kankakee)
Market St to County Rd 1000 N (Champaign)
I-70 East to I-70 West (Effingham)
Exit 103 Dix to I-64 East Exit 92 (Mt Vernon)
Cedar Grove Rd to I-24 (Marion area)
US 51 Exit 25 to Mississippi River Bridge (Cairo area)

I-64
ILL 158 Air Mobility Dr to ILL 4 (East St Louis area)
I-57 North to ILL 142 (Mt Vernon)

I-70
US 40 Randolph St to US 40 Cumberland Rd (Vandalia)
I-57 South to I-57 North (Effingham)

I-72
Wabash Ave to Overpass Rd (Springfield)
US 36 East El Dorado St, US 51 South to ILL 48 22nd St (Decatur)

I-74
I-474 to Morton Ave (Morton)
US 45 Cunningham Ave to County Rd 1700E (Urbana)
US 150 Main St to IND 63 (Danville)

I-80
Mississippi River Bridge to I-74 (Quad Cities)
ILL 89 to ILL 178 (LaSalle-Peru)
ILL 47 to US 30 (Morris-Joliet)

I-155
I-74 to Broadway Rd (Morton)

I can confirm that the I-72 and downstate I-55 portions are still 4 lanes.  There are plans to widen all of it (except the portion of I-72 east of I-55) to 6 lanes with a c/d road between exits 94 and 98. 

http://i55springfield.com/site/

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The I-57 duplexes with I-64 and I-70 are both six lanes.

[skluth]

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes.

They're about to convert a four-lane divided non-limited-access highway in South Texas with a wide median into a four-lane interstate highway by constructing the freeway lanes in the wide median. This will result in 40+ miles of two lanes in each direction with jersey barrier and no grassy median whatsoever in an isolated rural area. Even better, they're reserving right of way on the OUTSIDE for future 6-laning. Why not reserve on the inside, then have a 46 foot grassy median initially, then jersey barrier when 6-laned? It just makes more sense in my mind, and would keep a rural feel for decades to come, as that highway will not need widening anytime soon as far as I'm aware.

Gotta love TXDOT though!

You're right. That's just stupid on TXDOT's part.

[skluth]

Six lanes in rural areas just kills the rural character of the area.

If so, how does four lanes not kill the rural character of the area?

I agree. It's not really the number of lanes. To me, it's more about the width of the ROW, or more precisely, the width of the median.

In Europe, where ROW is really expensive, you have six-lane motorways but with very narrow medians. Total horizontal width is usually less, or equal to, a typical four-lane rural freeway in the US:

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes. This interstate in central Illinois has six lanes, plus a frontage road, a railroad, and a coal conveyor run parallel to it through the same fields. I've driven it countless times and it's always felt rural.

The poster does have a point about how highways and railroads interfere with animal migration. More needs to be done in making sure animals can safely migrate by maintaining some level of separation. Wildlife overpasses and underpasses along with low long bridges rather than causeways through swamps are vitally important in keeping animal diversity strong, especially with larger mammals. A lot of people think this is only for rural areas, but many suburban areas support a lot of wildlife.

I realize this costs money in the short run. However, it saves lives - both animal and human - along with all the benefits associated with a more diverse ecosystem.

I'm not sure if I would consider that road next to I-55 a frontage road because it doesn't serve any exits or anything. To me it looks like that was the original road and they just built the highway next to it.

You are correct that the frontage road was part of the original US 66 through Illinois. However, I don't know why it's not a frontage road. A frontage road, by definition, "is a local road running parallel to a higher-speed, limited-access road. A frontage road is often used to provide access to private driveways, shops, houses, industries or farms." I realize it's Wikipedia's definition, but I believe the definition is accurate and definitely describes how the old road is currently utilized. The definition never states it can't be an older road. The Dunn Road in North St Louis County (MO) is a frontage road that existed before the interstate system was imagined.

[sprjus4]

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes.

They're about to convert a four-lane divided non-limited-access highway in South Texas with a wide median into a four-lane interstate highway by constructing the freeway lanes in the wide median. This will result in 40+ miles of two lanes in each direction with jersey barrier and no grassy median whatsoever in an isolated rural area. Even better, they're reserving right of way on the OUTSIDE for future 6-laning. Why not reserve on the inside, then have a 46 foot grassy median initially, then jersey barrier when 6-laned? It just makes more sense in my mind, and would keep a rural feel for decades to come, as that highway will not need widening anytime soon as far as I'm aware.

Gotta love TXDOT though!

Is that 69E or 69C?

43 miles of I-69C between Falfurrias and TX-186.

Here's the proposed typical section -


It's nice they're getting a large chunk completed, but I just wish they'd build the "outside" lanes first, and then widen to the inside later on when warranted. It's not like it'll cost anymore, all of the bridges will be built to accommodate an additional lane already, and the lane will be graded. Same thing, just do it to the inside as opposed to the outside.

When they upgraded US-281 to interstate standards through Falfurrias a few years back, they built 4-lanes with a 46 foot grassy median wide enough for widening in the future. Why not the same thing here? All of the other I-69 upgrade projects also have a 46 foot or larger median, wide enough for future expansion to the inside, not outside. Ironically, the southern end of the project will tie into the TX-186 interchange, which has a grassy median, even at the grade separation. Whoever is in charge of the design on this project needs to re-evaluate this.

Here's the project website -
https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/get-involved/about/hearings-meetings/pharr/102318.html
https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/projects/studies/pharr/us281-future-i-69c.html

On the public hearings site, you can view schematics for the entire corridor, and indeed, it's 4-lanes with jersey barrier the entire 43 miles.

[Flint1979]

Six lanes in rural areas just kills the rural character of the area.

If so, how does four lanes not kill the rural character of the area?

I agree. It's not really the number of lanes. To me, it's more about the width of the ROW, or more precisely, the width of the median.

In Europe, where ROW is really expensive, you have six-lane motorways but with very narrow medians. Total horizontal width is usually less, or equal to, a typical four-lane rural freeway in the US:

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes. This interstate in central Illinois has six lanes, plus a frontage road, a railroad, and a coal conveyor run parallel to it through the same fields. I've driven it countless times and it's always felt rural.

The poster does have a point about how highways and railroads interfere with animal migration. More needs to be done in making sure animals can safely migrate by maintaining some level of separation. Wildlife overpasses and underpasses along with low long bridges rather than causeways through swamps are vitally important in keeping animal diversity strong, especially with larger mammals. A lot of people think this is only for rural areas, but many suburban areas support a lot of wildlife.

I realize this costs money in the short run. However, it saves lives - both animal and human - along with all the benefits associated with a more diverse ecosystem.

I'm not sure if I would consider that road next to I-55 a frontage road because it doesn't serve any exits or anything. To me it looks like that was the original road and they just built the highway next to it.

You are correct that the frontage road was part of the original US 66 through Illinois. However, I don't know why it's not a frontage road. A frontage road, by definition, "is a local road running parallel to a higher-speed, limited-access road. A frontage road is often used to provide access to private driveways, shops, houses, industries or farms." I realize it's Wikipedia's definition, but I believe the definition is accurate and definitely describes how the old road is currently utilized. The definition never states it can't be an older road. The Dunn Road in North St Louis County (MO) is a frontage road that existed before the interstate system was imagined.

Looked so obvious to me lol. I don't quite understand why it's not a frontage road either, here in Michigan we call those service drives and in the urban areas almost all the freeways have a service drive. The frontage road is good to serve the off and on ramps to freeways. Around here a good example is US-23 south of Flint, it's a freeway until Perrysburg, Ohio and for some of the route north of Ann Arbor the freeway runs parrel to Old US-23 which is for the most part just a two lane road and it does work well as an alternate route in some areas when the freeway is backed up which happens often especially when Michigan has a home football game as it's only two lanes in each direction. All of Detroit's freeways except for I-275 have service drives.

[DJStephens]

I also think that's more a result of the reduced median and not the visual effect of having six lanes.

They're about to convert a four-lane divided non-limited-access highway in South Texas with a wide median into a four-lane interstate highway by constructing the freeway lanes in the wide median. This will result in 40+ miles of two lanes in each direction with jersey barrier and no grassy median whatsoever in an isolated rural area. Even better, they're reserving right of way on the OUTSIDE for future 6-laning. Why not reserve on the inside, then have a 46 foot grassy median initially, then jersey barrier when 6-laned? It just makes more sense in my mind, and would keep a rural feel for decades to come, as that highway will not need widening anytime soon as far as I'm aware.

Gotta love TXDOT though!

Something very similar was done on the "spur 601"  in El Paso.  A narrow four lane alignment with center jersey barrier was built along its eastern route through Fort Bliss.  Plenty of space existed to have a grassy median and wider separation of carriageways.  And they put in a terrible DDI at its eastern connection to "loop 375"  where plenty of room existed for a free flowing directional interchange.  No love for the texdot here.  Enormous sums wasted on clear view, excessive architectural frills, and bad design decision making.

[Skye]

Any 4-lane stretch of I-75 in Kentucky.

[Avalanchez71]

The one thing that I have noticed is that the more lanes built just attracts more traffic.  I have witnessed this in Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee.  So why bother in the first place.

[hotdogPi]

The one thing that I have noticed is that the more lanes built just attracts more traffic.  I have witnessed this in Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee.  So why bother in the first place.

The cars aren't being added; while traffic increases on that route, it decreases on other routes.

[Rothman]

Try Duluth, MN, Binghamton, NY and I'd even argue Detroit, MI.  Despite the highways, congestion has not filled capacity.

The blanket idea that more lanes just fill up automatically with congestion just because they're there is unfounded in reality.