Covid vaccination status?

[TravelingBethelite]

Stupid New Yorkers have caused a plateau.

My strong suspicion is that not all of them are stupid people.

If they are simply refusing to get the vaccine, then it is hard to see how they aren't.

If they are medically unable to get it or can't get to a location, then that is another matter.

I know plenty of intelligent people who don't plan to be vaccinated–a set of people that includes teachers and nurses, by the way, successful college-graduate professionals.  Your inability to "see how they aren't" stupid doesn't enter into it.  The fact is that not every intelligent person has the same opinion, nor does every intelligent person believe the same thing, nor does every intelligent person do the same thing.  At least that's the way it is in Wichita.  I'm assuming the same holds true in New York.

Smearing everyone who isn't getting vaccinated as "stupid" is just juvenile.

Stupid is an intellectual failing. Not getting vaccinated is more of a moral failing. They aren't too stupid to help protect others' lives, they just don't care.

I chose this post for a reply instead of the original post or Kyle's rebuttal.

I reject both arguments. Not getting the shot is not an unintelligent decision, nor is it an immoral decision.

I have weighed the pros and cons and for various reasons, have determined that I will not be taking the shot. I'm not an "anti-vaxxer" by any stretch, but I'm skeptical of this particular one. I got all the popular childhood shots as a kid growing up in the 1960s, but I have no memories of ever being vaccinated for anything. I couldn't tell you the last time I got a tetanus shot. Maybe in five years, if covid is still around and causing major problems and no long-term issues have manifested themselves among the vaccinated, I will reconsider. But I have never taken a flu shot and I've never had the flu -- including last year, when in February I had close contact with someone who tested positive for the flu later that day; contact close enough that if he'd had covid and not the flu, the government would have tried to imprison me in my own home for two weeks.

I have my doubts about the long-term safety of the shot, since it is so new and relatively untested, and also do not see an individual need for me to take the shot. There are a number of other factors that led to my decision. My risk of contracting covid as I go about my normal life -- meaning life prior to February 2020 -- is relatively low. Which means that I'm not at risk of spreading it to others, especially since it's been stated that you can still catch and transmit covid even after having taken the shot. And my taking the shot would do nothing to protect others since the vaccinated can still spread the virus; others can choose to get the shot, wear masks, keep distance, stay home, or whatever else they feel they need to do.

I would neither encourage nor discourage anyone to get the shot. Contrary to popular belief here, it's not the right decision for everyone. I would instead hope that they evaluate their own individual situations and come to a decision with which they're comfortable. I'm perfectly comfortable with my decision. I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.

That certainly makes me feel better about everything - the same people that are opting to not get the vaccine "out of personal choice" are one and the same as the people who would leave the house if they actually got Covid.

[JayhawkCO]

I'd hope the "tolerance and understanding" crowd would respect that. My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.

But it does.  If you're the one that "keeps the virus going" and eventually mutations are created that bypass vaccines, it certainly affects me. 

Chris

[hbelkins]

(Other people don't know who has their shots and who doesn't, and since I don't have a big "I'm Vaccinated!" sticker, I'll keep the mask on.)

Oklahoma actually did hand out a big "I'm Vaccinated!" sticker at the site where I got my first dose. Except the nurse that vaccinated my wife forgot to give her one, so she dug around in her purse and put on an "I Voted!" sticker she had in there instead.

At my sister-in-law's workplace, they were handing out "I'm Vaccinated" masks. Since she -- a person with two college degrees who will be earning her third degree, a post-graduate degree, this weekend, so she certainly doesn't qualify as "unintelligent" -- is not taking the shot, they told her, "You don't get one." She replied, "I don't want one!"

I'm surprised that a market for "I'm Vaccinated" masks hasn't popped up yet. Indeed, I'm seeing more and more masks on clearance in retail stores. The market seems to have become saturated.

Maybe we should pay people to get the vaccine.

I've actually pondered this. If they paid me a life-altering sum of money (minimum of six figures) then I would consider it. For a payment more closely resembling one of the recent stimulus payments, which is an idea that's been floated? Nope.

[kphoger]

I find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot.  For that matter, I never have either.  With full understanding that the coronavirus and influenza virus are not exactly equivalent, influenza is contagious for a couple of days before symptoms develop, the CDC recommends that everyone get the shot every year, and the worldwide death count during the 2009-10 pandemic was in six figures.  Yet for some reason, not getting a flu shot seems to be a perfectly acceptable decision while not getting a COVID shot means he wants your nephew to die of a variant twelve years from now.

I've had influenza twice.  The first time, I came down with it the day before driving from Chicago to Minneapolis to meet my now-wife's in-laws for the first time at a huge family Christmas party.  I went into a house full of thirty or forty people of all ages while knowingly infected with a contagious respiratory disease known to kill thousands of people every year and, when I hesitated to shake people's hands and told them I had influenza, most of them told me not to worry about it and shook my hand anyway.  This was completely normal behavior 15 years ago and, if I had told this story to you in 2019 instead of 2021, nobody would have even batted an eye.  Some of you might even have told your own similar stories with a chuckle.

The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half.  But not for everyone, it hasn't.  As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?"  To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before:  it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks.  Their worldview hasn't changed.  Yours has.

This whole "vaccinated people can still spread the virus so still need to exercise all precautions" business needs to stop.

+100000000 to this and the reasoning that followed.

When they want everyone to keep wearing masks and not gather in groups, people tell us the virus can still spread even if we're vaccinated.

When they want everyone to get vaccinated, people tell us it will stop the spread of the virus.

Go figure when someone calls bullshit on that.

My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.

It most certainly can. The more people who do not get vaccinated, the longer the virus can spread, and the longer it spreads, the greater chance that a vaccine-resistant strain emerges and kills me even though I got vaccinated.

But it does.  If you're the one that "keeps the virus going" and eventually mutations are created that bypass vaccines, it certainly affects me. 

No, no, no.  That only happens if (1) he even gets the virus to begin with and also (2) you end up getting it later too.  Absent both of those conditions, you are not affected.  You're placing a whole lot of blame on someone based on a whole lot of hypotheticals.

Kind of like that time I mentioned an elderly group of Bible study members at my church having a holiday luncheon at someone's house, and it was claimed on here that doing so would cause people to die.  Nope, it didn't.  Not a single person contracted the virus during that luncheon, so the accusation was false.

[JayhawkCO]

I find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot.  For that matter, I never have either.  With full understanding that the coronavirus and influenza virus are not exactly equivalent, influenza is contagious for a couple of days before symptoms develop, the CDC recommends that everyone get the shot every year, and the worldwide death count during the 2009-10 pandemic was in six figures.  Yet for some reason, not getting a flu shot seems to be a perfectly acceptable decision while not getting a COVID shot means he wants your nephew to die of a variant twelve years from now.

I hadn't ever gotten a flu shot prior to this previous year either.  I always had the mentality that I didn't really care if I got the flu.  Corona has made me reevaluate myself and now I think I was just being ignorant.  I will get the flu shot every year from here on out.  It's not about me.

No, no, no.  That only happens if (1) he even gets the virus to begin with and also (2) you end up getting it later too.  Absent both of those conditions, you are not affected.  You're placing a whole lot of blame on someone based on a whole lot of hypotheticals.

Kind of like that time I mentioned an elderly group of Bible study members at my church having a holiday luncheon at someone's house, and it was claimed on here that doing so would cause people to die.  Nope, it didn't.  Not a single person contracted the virus during that luncheon, so the accusation was false.

Even if I don't get it, I don't want others to get it.  It's not about me.

Chris

[NWI_Irish96]

My not taking the shot doesn't affect you in the least, especially if you do take it.

It most certainly can. The more people who do not get vaccinated, the longer the virus can spread, and the longer it spreads, the greater chance that a vaccine-resistant strain emerges and kills me even though I got vaccinated.

But it does.  If you're the one that "keeps the virus going" and eventually mutations are created that bypass vaccines, it certainly affects me. 

No, no, no.  That only happens if (1) he even gets the virus to begin with and also (2) you end up getting it later too.  Absent both of those conditions, you are not affected.  You're placing a whole lot of blame on someone based on a whole lot of hypotheticals.

Kind of like that time I mentioned an elderly group of Bible study members at my church having a holiday luncheon at someone's house, and it was claimed on here that doing so would cause people to die.  Nope, it didn't.  Not a single person contracted the virus during that luncheon, so the accusation was false.

Both of those conditions are more likely if he doesn't get vaccinated, and that increased likelihood multiplies the more people who don't get it.

It's free, it's been shown to be safe, and it does your part to protect the entire country. It's pretty selfish to not get vaccinated and refuse to help protect others.

[webny99]

... influenza is contagious for a couple of days before symptoms develop, the CDC recommends that everyone get the shot every year, and the worldwide death count during the 2009-10 pandemic was in six figures. 

The flu is still less deadly than covid, especially for older people, so there's a lot less risk associated with spreading it to elderly and other high-risk individuals. Also, the swine flu is different than the regular flu, so the "six figures" is a major outlier.

[webny99]

The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half.  But not for everyone, it hasn't.  As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?"  To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before:  it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks.  Their worldview hasn't changed.  Yours has.

It's funny the way your worldview changes when you're personally affected by something, but doesn't when you're not.

[JayhawkCO]

The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half.  But not for everyone, it hasn't.  As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?"  To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before:  it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks.  Their worldview hasn't changed.  Yours has.

It's funny the way your worldview changes when you're personally affected by something, but doesn't when you're not.

I'll tread lightly per TOS, but it's also worldviews based on science vs. something else.  I'm not trying to say that I'm willing to jump through a million hoops to try to prevent anyone from ever getting sick again.  Obviously that is a fool's errand.  I am willing, however, to get stabbed in the shoulder twice and feel like crap for 16 hours to prevent adding any totals to the already 3 million people that have died.  ::shrug::  I guess the Nazis taking over the world could have been God's will and we shouldn't celebrate the Greatest Generation for making a far greater sacrifice to save lives.

Chris

[Max Rockatansky]

The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half.  But not for everyone, it hasn't.  As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?"  To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before:  it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks.  Their worldview hasn't changed.  Yours has.

It's funny the way your worldview changes when you're personally affected by something, but doesn't when you're not.

I kind of feel like I have a fatalistic view on life compared to most people.  From the get go I was pretty skeptical with COVID and wondered if the degree of panic and regulations in the long run would have done more harm than the virus itself.  For me it certainly hasn't changed much in my own life, it was/is just another obstacle to overcome.  I've certainly been far more affected personally by things like heart disease and cancer killing relatives.  Even in my own life I've had what I would deem to be subjectively scarier health concerns than what COVID presents. 

I came to conclusion after both my Mom and Dad died from cancer that it wasn't worth it for me to living in fear of the same happening to me.  I guess for me it is hard for me look at something like COVID and take it as seriously/be fearful as many are.  The way I see it is that I along with everyone I know has a 100% chance of death and it would be in all our interests to attempt to do something meaningful with ourselves before our time is up. 

But yeah, I'll take a vaccine and wear a mask if that's what is required of me.  That said, I won't anyone ever tell me again that seeing family or even trying to maintain my own physical health is a bad thing. 

[kphoger]

Even if I don't get it, I don't want others to get it.  It's not about me.

Then why did you say "But it does" in response to "My not taking the shot doesn't affect you"?  Did you mean secondhand?  As in, your sympathy for other people affecting you?

Both of those conditions are more likely if he doesn't get vaccinated, and that increased likelihood multiplies the more people who don't get it.

Yes, I know that.  And I assume that, by this point, you know I know that.  But you guys keep stating as fact something that is only hypothetical.  Don't be surprised when the other person isn't convinced by that kind of statement.

It's free, it's been shown to be safe, and it does your part to protect the entire country. It's pretty selfish to not get vaccinated and refuse to help protect others.

So back to what I said earlier:  are people selfish to not get the flu shot?  Heck, chickenpox for that matter?  While I don't believe that people who don't get vaccinated for those things are necessarily selfish, I still somehow hope that your reasoning is consistent enough for you to say yes.

I guess the Nazis taking over the world could have been God's will and we shouldn't celebrate the Greatest Generation for making a far greater sacrifice to save lives.

Dipping a toe into the religion pool...  To say that shit happens and that's part of life is not the same thing as saying "Shit happening is God's will".  That's a whole theological debate I enjoy having, but this forum is not the place for it.

[kphoger]

I kind of feel like I have a fatalistic view on life compared to most people.

I first read that as "have a fantastic view on life".  And, honestly, I think both might be true.  Your comments during this time have been some of the most level-headed, refreshing comments I've personally read.  I think your perspective is enviable.  You've shaped how I think during this time more than probably any other member on here.

[J N Winkler]

I find it interesting that not a single person has slammed HB for never having had a flu shot.  For that matter, I never have either.  With full understanding that the coronavirus and influenza virus are not exactly equivalent, influenza is contagious for a couple of days before symptoms develop, the CDC recommends that everyone get the shot every year, and the worldwide death count during the 2009-10 pandemic was in six figures.  Yet for some reason, not getting a flu shot seems to be a perfectly acceptable decision while not getting a COVID shot means he wants your nephew to die of a variant twelve years from now.

I've had influenza twice.  The first time, I came down with it the day before driving from Chicago to Minneapolis to meet my now-wife's in-laws for the first time at a huge family Christmas party.  I went into a house full of thirty or forty people of all ages while knowingly infected with a contagious respiratory disease known to kill thousands of people every year and, when I hesitated to shake people's hands and told them I had influenza, most of them told me not to worry about it and shook my hand anyway.  This was completely normal behavior 15 years ago and, if I had told this story to you in 2019 instead of 2021, nobody would have even batted an eye.  Some of you might even have told your own similar stories with a chuckle.

The way people look at this sort of thing has shifted over the last year and a half.  But not for everyone, it hasn't.  As my auto mechanic said to me in frustration a few months ago, "Why can't we all just accept that people get sick, and that life is a gift from God?"  To him, the coronavirus isn't an earth-shattering disease like nothing we've ever seen before:  it's just a more-contagious one than usual, and one with some nasty symptoms and greater risks.  Their worldview hasn't changed.  Yours has.

I wouldn't say my attitude to the flu shot has changed.  I have had influenza several times, so I know what it is like.  I have also gotten the shot in autumn or winter some years, though I haven't made it a habit to get one every year.  There are some key differences between flu and covid:

*  Risks of death and life-altering complications (such as permanent damage to organ systems and long covid syndrome) are at least an order of magnitude higher, even for low-risk groups, with covid than with the annual flu in most years.

*  Flu does not spread asymptomatically, unlike covid, so the backup strategies for preventing transmission of flu (in the absence of effective vaccination) are less burdensome than for covid.

*  The production process for flu vaccine dates from the 1940's, relies on chicken eggs, and involves long lead times to manufacture at scale.  This leads to several problems.  First, experts have to guess at which strains will be active in a given flu season about 18 months into the future, and in some years they guess wrong.  Second, sometimes the viruses mutate during the production process, so the resulting vaccine is sometimes not effective even against the strains it is designed for.

Debora MacKenzie's Covid-19:  the pandemic that should never have happened and how to stop the next one (likely available at your local public library) goes into further detail on these differences, other reasons response plans designed for flu pandemics don't necessarily work for covid, and misconceptions such as the common assumption that mutant strains will tend to be less virulent.

In this thread, I'm trying to steer clear of making a hard sell for covid vaccination, because I believe that comes with a high risk of calcifying vaccine hesitancy into refusal.  Also, as about 87% of those participating in the poll have signaled that they have received or plan to receive the vaccine, this is probably not the best place to find those who are still vaccine-hesitant.  I'd just note that with original covid evolving into more transmissible and more virulent strains, some of which are likely to be vaccine-resistant--such as B.1.1.7 with the E484K mutation--our battle is far from over.  Michigan is spiking hard even though it has a high percentage of the population vaccinated.  India is spiking even harder, to the extent that oxygen is being diverted from industrial production to hospitals, even though it too has a vaccine.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Again, treading as lightly as possible. From the beginning I have been less concerned with it than many of my liberal peers, continuing to do things such as dining in and continuing my work as a freelance sports broadcaster, which unfortunately and expectedly did mean I contracted the virus about 4-6 weeks ago. It sucked, but other people have had it much worse than I did.

I have felt a lot of blue states that were restriction-heavy have loosened them more out of political posturing than because they actually have gained control over the virus.

[JayhawkCO]

Even if I don't get it, I don't want others to get it.  It's not about me.

Then why did you say "But it does" in response to "My not taking the shot doesn't affect you"?  Did you mean secondhand?  As in, your sympathy for other people affecting you?

Because it very well could affect me either a) me getting it or b) someone I know getting it.  I just think you'd be pissed if your parent or close relative died from Covid and it could have been prevented by something so simple.  I actually had a family member pass from Covid, and I think a lot of the people who didn't have anyone close to them seriously get affected have far different points of view than those of use that had to attend a funeral.

I guess the Nazis taking over the world could have been God's will and we shouldn't celebrate the Greatest Generation for making a far greater sacrifice to save lives.

Dipping a toe into the religion pool...  To say that shit happens and that's part of life is not the same thing as saying "Shit happening is God's will".  That's a whole theological debate I enjoy having, but this forum is not the place for it.

Agreed it's not the place for it here re: religion, but my point was that sacrifices occasionally have to be made to prevent bad shit from happening, even if bad shit is part of life.  This sacrifice is incredibly minor compared to an 18 year old in 1941 signing up to go to war.

Chris

[kphoger]

With full understanding that the coronavirus and influenza virus are not exactly equivalent,

There are some key differences between flu and covid:

*  Flu does not spread asymptomatically, unlike covid, so the backup strategies for preventing transmission of flu (in the absence of effective vaccination) are less burdensome than for covid.

Umm..

Most healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop ... That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.

[JayhawkCO]

Again, treading as lightly as possible. From the beginning I have been less concerned with it than many of my liberal peers, continuing to do things such as dining in and continuing my work as a freelance sports broadcaster, which unfortunately and expectedly did mean I contracted the virus about 4-6 weeks ago. It sucked, but other people have had it much worse than I did.

And for me, I'm far less concerned about getting it than I am about spreading it.  I'm young and healthy.  I don't want me to be the reason that someone else that isn't young and healthy gets it.  That's why I take precautions.

I have felt a lot of blue states that were restriction-heavy have loosened them more out of political posturing than because they actually have gained control over the virus.

Even as a liberal dude, I quite agree with this.

Chris

[Scott5114]

*  The production process for flu vaccine dates from the 1940's, relies on chicken eggs, and involves long lead times to manufacture at scale.  This leads to several problems.  First, experts have to guess at which strains will be active in a given flu season about 18 months into the future, and in some years they guess wrong.  Second, sometimes the viruses mutate during the production process, so the resulting vaccine is sometimes not effective even against the strains it is designed for.

This is the main reason why I don't bother getting a flu shot. I'm not vaccine-averse, but there's so many places the flu shot can go wrong that I don't feel it's worth the hassle. I also haven't had the flu since I was a child, despite working in an environment where it made the rounds among our department most every winter.

Now that mRNA vaccine is proven technology and not restricted to the drawing board, it's possible on a technical level to make flu shots that are custom-written to target strains known, and not just predicted, to be in circulation, and which could be patched mid-season to cover any mutations. I would be more likely to get an mRNA flu shot if one were available.

[kphoger]

↓ A true statement ↓
The fewer people getting vaccinated, the more people are likely to suffer or die from the coronavirus.

↓ Another true statement ↓
Because you are part of "the people", your choice not to be vaccinated statistically increases that likelihood, however infinitesimal that increase may be.

↓ Another true statement, based on the above ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated therefore has the very slight potential to affect me in the future.

↓ A false statement ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated has an effect on my life.

↓ A slanderous statement ↓
Your choice not to be vaccinated was done out of selfishness, stupidity, and/or immorality.

[J N Winkler]

So back to what I said earlier:  are people selfish to not get the flu shot?  Heck, chickenpox for that matter?  While I don't believe that people who don't get vaccinated for those things are necessarily selfish, I still somehow hope that your reasoning is consistent enough for you to say yes.

I caught chicken pox at age 14 from a first cousin once removed who was about three years old at the time.  She had a mild case that was gone within 24 hours.  I was incapacitated for a week and had to miss a summer program I was looking forward to.  I have also known older adults who have had painful cases of shingles.  As a result of these experiences, I have no problem whatsoever with chicken pox vaccination being a precondition for attending public school.

I know deaf people only slightly older than me who lost their hearing in the womb when their mothers had rubella shortly before a vaccine became available.  So, again, I've never had a problem with the MMR shot being required.

Need I go on?

[kphoger]

So back to what I said earlier:  are people selfish to not get the flu shot?  Heck, chickenpox for that matter?  While I don't believe that people who don't get vaccinated for those things are necessarily selfish, I still somehow hope that your reasoning is consistent enough for you to say yes.

I caught chicken pox at age 14 from a first cousin once removed who was about three years old at the time.  She had a mild case that was gone within 24 hours.  I was incapacitated for a week and had to miss a summer program I was looking forward to.  I have also known older adults who have had painful cases of shingles.  As a result of these experiences, I have no problem whatsoever with chicken pox vaccination being a precondition for attending public school.

I know deaf people only slightly older than me who lost their hearing in the womb when their mothers had rubella shortly before a vaccine became available.  So, again, I've never had a problem with the MMR shot being required.

Need I go on?

Well, just enough to actually answer the question.  Are you claiming that those who don't get those vaccines are selfish people?

(I realize, of course, that most people get these as children, but not all do.)

[J N Winkler]

Umm..

Most healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop ... That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.

From E. Patrozou and L.A. Mermel, "Does Influenza Transmission Occur from Asymptomatic Infection or Prior to Symptom Onset?", Public Health Reports 2009 Mar.-Apr., 124(2), pp. 193-196:

Based on the available literature, we found that there is scant, if any, evidence that asymptomatic or presymptomatic individuals play an important role in influenza transmission.

I accept that "Does not spread asymptomatically" is probably an overgeneralization for flu, but the stylized fact is that the large role asymptomatic transmission plays in the spread of covid is one of the biggest reasons countries with advanced public health capability--such as the US and the EU countries--failed to achieve containment.  In the absence of specific information as to the role asymptomatic spread plays, countries had to make bets on whether it was large or small.  The side of that wager that South Korea, Taiwan, and New Zealand took turned out to be a minority position.

[kphoger]

Ah, yes, I read that report before posting.  Doesn't jive with the CDC info.  Where does that leave us?

[US 89]

This whole "vaccinated people can still spread the virus so still need to exercise all precautions" business needs to stop.

+100000000 to this and the reasoning that followed.

When they want everyone to keep wearing masks and not gather in groups, people tell us the virus can still spread even if we're vaccinated.

When they want everyone to get vaccinated, people tell us it will stop the spread of the virus.

Go figure when someone calls bullshit on that.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think a lot of the reason behind the messaging we're getting now is politicians and public health leaders realizing that as soon as this pandemic is over, whatever special status or power they've gained over the course of the past year is going to go away. So naturally they're trying to hold onto those extra powers as long as they can.

The fearmongering clickbaity articles you'll see scattered around social media and the news ("Why We'll NEVER Be Able to Take Off Our Masks!!") are not helpful either. Obviously those are posted and shared because they get clicks, but I do think a lot of those are virtue-signalling type overreactions to the anti-mask/anti-vax crowds out there.

This, by the way, is no excuse to not wear a mask or get vaccinated. These are proven public health safety measures that aren't that hard to do... and they work.

[webny99]

I kind of feel like I have a fatalistic view on life compared to most people.

I first read that as "have a fantastic view on life".  And, honestly, I think both might be true.  Your comments during this time have been some of the most level-headed, refreshing comments I've personally read.  I think your perspective is enviable.  You've shaped how I think during this time more than probably any other member on here.

Can I win "least-refreshing perspective"? I try so hard to be unbiased and am so predisposed to neutrality that my opinions are usually knotted up into an inauthentic little pretzel.

Case in point: I've been following this thread with mild interest, but have not come down with any firm stances that I'm prepared to state and defend. Mostly, I'm just disappointed that we're once again pitting two irreconcilable worldviews against each other, and are thus set on an irreversible course towards <end thread> 

In this thread, I'm trying to steer clear of making a hard sell for covid vaccination, because I believe that comes with a high risk of calcifying vaccine hesitancy into refusal.  Also, as about 87% of those participating in the poll have signaled that they have received or plan to receive the vaccine, this is probably not the best place to find those who are still vaccine-hesitant.

Speaking of refreshing perspectives, this is most definitely one, and a very well-put one, at that. I fully agree that trying to change minds here in this thread isn't going to do anything to help matters.