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Author Topic: I-49 in Arkansas  (Read 922197 times)

US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2950 on: June 22, 2021, 10:20:07 PM »

I noticed today tat MoDOT is starting to pave their section of I-49

Which part of I-49 did you see, the Northern interchange with US 71, the MO 90 interchange, or something else?

North interchange at the 71/49 split
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Avalanchez71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2951 on: June 23, 2021, 07:45:20 AM »

What is the price tag per mile for this pork project?
Have you ever driven through the area at peak hours?

Prediction: you won’t respond to this.

Yes
Every MSA has traffic.
Wow, I'm surprised you acknowledged it.

Now, the DOT is building a bypass of the congested area to provide a free-flowing route to link two unjoined portions of interstates to provide a continuous route for regional and through traffic. How is this a bad thing?


"Every MSA has traffic".  Is that statement intended to provide justification for inaction to relieve it?  Maybe there's a world view floating around out there that states or implies that people are supposed to endure obstacles and hardships without attempting to do something about them -- and that somehow collective action toward relief is untoward/unwarranted/blasphemy?  NWA's been growing by leaps and bounds for at least the past three decades; getting it efficiently connected to the rest of the country would by any measure be in the top three list of regional "things to do"; the fact that it took this long just goes to show the sorry state transportation funding is in these days -- in fact, I was originally surprised that Wal Mart didn't step up with some sort of private financing package when both states were scrambling to come up with the bypass funding, just to have a free-flow path from their HQ area north to I-44 and KC (but in retrospect not really shocked, as their business plan calls for as little unsecured outflow as possible). 

Despite naysayers, eventually identified and sufficiently warranted projects to address unfulfilled needs on a local and/or regional (and occasionally national) basis will be undertaken.  Nobody really wants to wear that hair shirt for any length of time!

Walmart knows better.  They know that the government will bend over backwards for them.
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2952 on: June 23, 2021, 11:37:23 AM »

What is the price tag per mile for this pork project?
Have you ever driven through the area at peak hours?

Prediction: you won’t respond to this.

Yes
Every MSA has traffic.
Wow, I'm surprised you acknowledged it.

Now, the DOT is building a bypass of the congested area to provide a free-flowing route to link two unjoined portions of interstates to provide a continuous route for regional and through traffic. How is this a bad thing?


"Every MSA has traffic".  Is that statement intended to provide justification for inaction to relieve it?  Maybe there's a world view floating around out there that states or implies that people are supposed to endure obstacles and hardships without attempting to do something about them -- and that somehow collective action toward relief is untoward/unwarranted/blasphemy?  NWA's been growing by leaps and bounds for at least the past three decades; getting it efficiently connected to the rest of the country would by any measure be in the top three list of regional "things to do"; the fact that it took this long just goes to show the sorry state transportation funding is in these days -- in fact, I was originally surprised that Wal Mart didn't step up with some sort of private financing package when both states were scrambling to come up with the bypass funding, just to have a free-flow path from their HQ area north to I-44 and KC (but in retrospect not really shocked, as their business plan calls for as little unsecured outflow as possible). 

Despite naysayers, eventually identified and sufficiently warranted projects to address unfulfilled needs on a local and/or regional (and occasionally national) basis will be undertaken.  Nobody really wants to wear that hair shirt for any length of time!

Walmart knows better.  They know that the government will bend over backwards for them.

*DING*

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sparker

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2953 on: June 23, 2021, 04:43:58 PM »

What is the price tag per mile for this pork project?
Have you ever driven through the area at peak hours?

Prediction: you won’t respond to this.

Yes
Every MSA has traffic.
Wow, I'm surprised you acknowledged it.

Now, the DOT is building a bypass of the congested area to provide a free-flowing route to link two unjoined portions of interstates to provide a continuous route for regional and through traffic. How is this a bad thing?


"Every MSA has traffic".  Is that statement intended to provide justification for inaction to relieve it?  Maybe there's a world view floating around out there that states or implies that people are supposed to endure obstacles and hardships without attempting to do something about them -- and that somehow collective action toward relief is untoward/unwarranted/blasphemy?  NWA's been growing by leaps and bounds for at least the past three decades; getting it efficiently connected to the rest of the country would by any measure be in the top three list of regional "things to do"; the fact that it took this long just goes to show the sorry state transportation funding is in these days -- in fact, I was originally surprised that Wal Mart didn't step up with some sort of private financing package when both states were scrambling to come up with the bypass funding, just to have a free-flow path from their HQ area north to I-44 and KC (but in retrospect not really shocked, as their business plan calls for as little unsecured outflow as possible). 

Despite naysayers, eventually identified and sufficiently warranted projects to address unfulfilled needs on a local and/or regional (and occasionally national) basis will be undertaken.  Nobody really wants to wear that hair shirt for any length of time!

Walmart knows better.  They know that the government will bend over backwards for them.

But it wasn't doing that for a long period of time!  Back in the early 2010's the funding shortfalls seemed to be volleying back and forth between AR and MO, with the latter having the deepest and most protracted problems.  AR was able to advance at least grading right to the state line well before MO had any more than survey stakes in the ground.  Still, in the interim they were able to cobble up sufficient funds to upgrade I-49 from I-44 north to the KC area, which tends to illustrate in-state priorities (the fact that US 71 was already in reasonably good shape -- and had little if any instances of private access issues -- undoubtedly helped in the matter).  Still, addressing traffic from the I-44 corridor north to KC was clearly a longstanding goal; a connection that would primarily benefit NWA could be kicked down the road until push came to shove and something concrete (or asphalt) needed to occur.   Whether Wal Mart or its hordes of state and federal lobbyists had something to do with the project finally materializing is likely something that's not available for public perusal -- but certainly well within the realm of possibility.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2954 on: June 23, 2021, 08:00:18 PM »

Walmart has distribution centers scattered to the four winds today, and execs and MVPs will fly in via XNA.The only reasons they would push for improved traffic in NWA is for altruistic ones unrelated to their business model.
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2955 on: June 23, 2021, 09:00:50 PM »

Walmart has distribution centers scattered to the four winds today, and execs and MVPs will fly in via XNA.The only reasons they would push for improved traffic in NWA is for altruistic ones unrelated to their business model.

XNA turned into a nice little cargo airport, as it was intended to be.   :pan:

As for I-49, Walmart, Tyson and JB Hunt  all had a certain amount of influence.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 11:30:27 AM by US71 »
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2956 on: June 24, 2021, 08:01:17 AM »

I noticed today tat MoDOT is starting to pave their section of I-49

Which part of I-49 did you see, the Northern interchange with US 71, the MO 90 interchange, or something else?

North interchange at the 71/49 split

Thanks!
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Avalanchez71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2957 on: June 24, 2021, 08:29:30 AM »

Walmart has distribution centers scattered to the four winds today, and execs and MVPs will fly in via XNA.The only reasons they would push for improved traffic in NWA is for altruistic ones unrelated to their business model.

XNA turned into a nice little cargo airport, as it was intended to be.

As for I-49, Walmart, Tyson and JB Hunt  all had a certain amount of influence.

Bingo

Nashville bent over backwards for Dell, Titans, and a slew of other companies.  Dell was a near flop and a shell of what it once was.
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msunat97

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2958 on: June 28, 2021, 11:39:04 AM »

Looks like the concrete barrier between the NB & SB lanes is going in today at the I-49 / 71 interchange.
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edwaleni

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2959 on: June 28, 2021, 05:31:25 PM »

Walmart has distribution centers scattered to the four winds today, and execs and MVPs will fly in via XNA.The only reasons they would push for improved traffic in NWA is for altruistic ones unrelated to their business model.

XNA turned into a nice little cargo airport, as it was intended to be.

As for I-49, Walmart, Tyson and JB Hunt  all had a certain amount of influence.

Bingo

Nashville bent over backwards for Dell, Titans, and a slew of other companies.  Dell was a near flop and a shell of what it once was.

Like this?

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2019/06/30/dell-nashville-tech-sector-jobs/1498729001/
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O Tamandua

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2960 on: July 02, 2021, 08:22:14 PM »

There are abandoned mainline railroads, but are there abandoned interstates?

I used to joke that Bentonville would some day be "the Orlando of the business world". It is said Walt Disney chose Orlando for his Disney World site when he saw, during an aerial tour, how the then-future interstate through Orlando would link it with the rest of America.  NWA will be almost squarely in the middle of the corridor between Winnipeg/Twin Cities and Houston-Mexico/New Orleans some day, the most direct North American International corridor of all.  More importantly, many are saying NWA is turning into a metropolitan entity (not only with its corporate headquarters but also the burgeoning arts scene and nature attractions) that no one can quite define, except to say it's getting bigger and bigger. 

Now that area is about more things than business.  And I feel certain the more I-49 Arkansas is completed the more profound its effects on NWA will be in ways we can't yet predict.
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2961 on: July 02, 2021, 10:53:49 PM »

There are abandoned mainline railroads, but are there abandoned interstates?

I used to joke that Bentonville would some day be "the Orlando of the business world". It is said Walt Disney chose Orlando for his Disney World site when he saw, during an aerial tour, how the then-future interstate through Orlando would link it with the rest of America.  NWA will be almost squarely in the middle of the corridor between Winnipeg/Twin Cities and Houston-Mexico/New Orleans some day, the most direct North American International corridor of all.  More importantly, many are saying NWA is turning into a metropolitan entity (not only with its corporate headquarters but also the burgeoning arts scene and nature attractions) that no one can quite define, except to say it's getting bigger and bigger. 

Now that area is about more things than business.  And I feel certain the more I-49 Arkansas is completed the more profound its effects on NWA will be in ways we can't yet predict.

Funny you mention Disney World.  That's basically what the mountain biking scene is being compared to now.  I don't think people realize just how much has been invested in the trail systems in NWA.  It's in the tens of millions of dollars and is generating hundreds of millions in tourism dollars now along with the museums and culinary scene development.  My wife's father and brother came to Bentonville today with their families to see our upcoming AirBnB and were shocked at all of the changes in town.  Wal-Mart isn't necessarily the main reason people come to Bentonville anymore.
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Road Hog

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2962 on: July 03, 2021, 12:20:15 AM »

There are abandoned mainline railroads, but are there abandoned interstates?

I used to joke that Bentonville would some day be "the Orlando of the business world". It is said Walt Disney chose Orlando for his Disney World site when he saw, during an aerial tour, how the then-future interstate through Orlando would link it with the rest of America.  NWA will be almost squarely in the middle of the corridor between Winnipeg/Twin Cities and Houston-Mexico/New Orleans some day, the most direct North American International corridor of all.  More importantly, many are saying NWA is turning into a metropolitan entity (not only with its corporate headquarters but also the burgeoning arts scene and nature attractions) that no one can quite define, except to say it's getting bigger and bigger. 

Now that area is about more things than business.  And I feel certain the more I-49 Arkansas is completed the more profound its effects on NWA will be in ways we can't yet predict.

Unfortunately there are limits to how much NWA will build out. Some of them are physical, i.e. the presence of Beaver Lake to the east and the mountainous terrain to the south. Others are political, i.e. the state lines with Oklahoma and Missouri to the west and north respectively. NWA will eventually be boxed-in by the middle of this century and credit for growth will accrue to neighboring states.

The biggest drawback is the lack of a dominant city in the mix. Springdale, Rogers and Bentonville are all destined to be about the same size. Fayetteville should be the big dog with the university, but is already landlocked by surrounding cities. Springdale has some room, but won't grow enough to be an identifiable center.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2963 on: July 03, 2021, 04:50:23 AM »

There are abandoned mainline railroads, but are there abandoned interstates?

I used to joke that Bentonville would some day be "the Orlando of the business world". It is said Walt Disney chose Orlando for his Disney World site when he saw, during an aerial tour, how the then-future interstate through Orlando would link it with the rest of America.  NWA will be almost squarely in the middle of the corridor between Winnipeg/Twin Cities and Houston-Mexico/New Orleans some day, the most direct North American International corridor of all.  More importantly, many are saying NWA is turning into a metropolitan entity (not only with its corporate headquarters but also the burgeoning arts scene and nature attractions) that no one can quite define, except to say it's getting bigger and bigger. 

Now that area is about more things than business.  And I feel certain the more I-49 Arkansas is completed the more profound its effects on NWA will be in ways we can't yet predict.

Unfortunately there are limits to how much NWA will build out. Some of them are physical, i.e. the presence of Beaver Lake to the east and the mountainous terrain to the south. Others are political, i.e. the state lines with Oklahoma and Missouri to the west and north respectively. NWA will eventually be boxed-in by the middle of this century and credit for growth will accrue to neighboring states.

The biggest drawback is the lack of a dominant city in the mix. Springdale, Rogers and Bentonville are all destined to be about the same size. Fayetteville should be the big dog with the university, but is already landlocked by surrounding cities. Springdale has some room, but won't grow enough to be an identifiable center.

It's a linear metro area arrayed along a spine; a dominant city isn't vital unless trying to attract a major pro sports team, which is probably not in the short-term cards for NWA.  Each city has been built up around a recognized entity; Fayetteville has UA, Springdale has Hunt, and of course Bentonville has the 800-pound retail gorilla.  The region can work together for common goals as well as each individual city pursuing its own internal agenda.  Put it this way -- the three "core" cities have their own exurbs, or, in the case of Bentonville & Rogers, a sibling.  Lowell serves that role for both Rogers and Springdale, while Farmington does so for Fayetteville.  It was only a half-century ago that the only town of note in the area was Fayetteville and its university; the growth of Wal Mart and JB Hunt have, among other things, precipitated the corresponding regional housing expansion.  NWA is doing just fine without a "shining star"; establishment of such would likely create regional friction and ego issues that aren't presently there to any degree.  Of course I-49 and perhaps the nascent E-W Interstate corridor along US 412 can only enhance the region at large.  Siloam Springs is already a retirement destination; it's likely that spillover from the I-49 and 71B spines will eventually result in infill; US 62 to the northeast toward Gateway is likely to be a major commercial "strip" before long.  If there's enough in the way of attractants, the region will expand even if there are a few obstacles. 
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2964 on: July 03, 2021, 11:51:13 AM »


The biggest drawback is the lack of a dominant city in the mix. Springdale, Rogers and Bentonville are all destined to be about the same size. Fayetteville should be the big dog with the university, but is already landlocked by surrounding cities. Springdale has some room, but won't grow enough to be an identifiable center.

Fayetteville can grow west along AR 16 towards Wedington Woods. In theory, they could absorb one of bedroom communities like they did Baldwin. There is also a 5-ish mile stretch along AR 45 that is Fayetteville Rural Route, but not officially part of the town.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2965 on: July 03, 2021, 12:18:39 PM »

If I'm not mistaking? Isn't the NWA one of the fastest growing areas in the country especially among retirees? And this has been going on for 20 years. Keep in mind a lot of people from California and the Northeast will continue to move there because of the low cost of living. Add that to whenever someone's house gets destroyed by California wildfires. One of the first places they relocate to is NWA
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2966 on: July 03, 2021, 05:44:26 PM »

If I'm not mistaking? Isn't the NWA one of the fastest growing areas in the country especially among retirees? And this has been going on for 20 years. Keep in mind a lot of people from California and the Northeast will continue to move there because of the low cost of living. Add that to whenever someone's house gets destroyed by California wildfires. One of the first places they relocate to is NWA

I have a neighbor who moved from Minnesota to Arkansas because it's cheaper.  HOWEVER: home prices appear to be climbing with no end in sight. Supply can't keep up with demand.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2967 on: July 03, 2021, 06:05:24 PM »

If I'm not mistaking? Isn't the NWA one of the fastest growing areas in the country especially among retirees? And this has been going on for 20 years. Keep in mind a lot of people from California and the Northeast will continue to move there because of the low cost of living. Add that to whenever someone's house gets destroyed by California wildfires. One of the first places they relocate to is NWA

If the influx into NWA continues unabated, you can bet your last dollar that housing costs will at least steadily rise if not shoot up dramatically!  As far as CA outflow is concerned, NWA is just one of the regions, along with Boise, the I-35 corridor between San Antonio and Austin, and the upper Mississippi Valley between La Crosse and the Twin Cities that have become desirable relocation spots.  The availability of appropriate jobs is a prime factor driving those other than retirees; but occasionally the prevailing attitudes of a region become a deciding factor.  Back about 1992 a business colleague, who is gay, bought, with his partner, a house on a sizeable piece of land outside Rogers, AR primarily to take advantage of the difference in the cost of living compared to the South Bay area.  They were back in Sunnyvale by 1995; they never felt welcomed or even accepted by the local population at large.  Granted that their experience might have been something of an anomaly -- but nevertheless some regions may be more accommodating and even desirable to those who share similar sociopolitical views with a region's dominant paradigm.   Of course continued influx may result in something of a shift in that paradigm, but that's something that would come about over time -- even decades!   
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2968 on: July 03, 2021, 08:14:58 PM »

https://findingnwa.com/incentive/

Northwest Arkansas is a great place to work, live and play: for recent grads, families, career changers, entrepreneurs, artists and more. We’re offering top remote working talent – maybe you? – a $10,000 cash incentive to move to the region. The funds will help with everything you need to set up your new life in Northwest Arkansas.

In addition to $10,000, incentive recipients will be gifted a street or mountain bicycle to help you take advantage of the 162 miles of paved trails, the 37-mile Razorback Regional Greenway and the 322 miles of world-class mountain biking trails that has made outdoor enthusiasts flock to the area. Alternatively, participants can choose an annual membership to one of our world-class arts and cultural institutions.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/northwest-arkansas-news/more-than-26000-people-applied-for-10000-cash-incentive-to-move-to-nwa/

According to a press release from the Northwest Arkansas Council on Monday, the Life Works Here program drew more than 26,000 applications from people in more than 115 countries and all 50 states.

The first 25 recipients of the $10,000 incentive have been selected, according to the Northwest Arkansas Council. They include:

An executive chef and James Beard Foundation Impact Fellow from Atlanta
A digital marketing manager from Denver
A music producer and creative community curator from Los Angeles
A gaming producer from Los Angeles
And a cloud technology manager from San Francisco


https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/apr/13/planners-consider-how-to-fit-1-milllion/

New projections by the Arkansas Economic Development Institute at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock are predicting 974,275 residents in Benton and Washington counties in 25 years. Benton County is predicted to have 545,893 and Washington County 428,382.

U.S. 412 is the only major highway and truck route from Tulsa to northeastern Arkansas, and it cuts right through the city. The 412 Bypass is being built in stages on the northern edge of town.

"East and west was always a challenge, with 412 going through the middle of Springdale. One of the things I think will help traffic congestion is to get the bypass all the way over to Highway 265 so a lot of that truck traffic that's just going through the region doesn't have to come through Springdale," Christie said.

The city is adding another overpass across Interstate 49 to continue to move traffic across the interstate to the ever-growing west side. Residential and commercial developments are regularly being approved by the city near Arvest Ballpark and Arkansas Children's Northwest hospital, both west of the interstate.


I am still looking for some recent demographics on where these people are coming from.



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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2969 on: July 06, 2021, 04:25:40 PM »

https://findingnwa.com/incentive/

Northwest Arkansas is a great place to work, live and play: for recent grads, families, career changers, entrepreneurs, artists and more. We’re offering top remote working talent – maybe you? – a $10,000 cash incentive to move to the region. The funds will help with everything you need to set up your new life in Northwest Arkansas.

In addition to $10,000, incentive recipients will be gifted a street or mountain bicycle to help you take advantage of the 162 miles of paved trails, the 37-mile Razorback Regional Greenway and the 322 miles of world-class mountain biking trails that has made outdoor enthusiasts flock to the area. Alternatively, participants can choose an annual membership to one of our world-class arts and cultural institutions.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/northwest-arkansas-news/more-than-26000-people-applied-for-10000-cash-incentive-to-move-to-nwa/

According to a press release from the Northwest Arkansas Council on Monday, the Life Works Here program drew more than 26,000 applications from people in more than 115 countries and all 50 states.

The first 25 recipients of the $10,000 incentive have been selected, according to the Northwest Arkansas Council. They include:

An executive chef and James Beard Foundation Impact Fellow from Atlanta
A digital marketing manager from Denver
A music producer and creative community curator from Los Angeles
A gaming producer from Los Angeles
And a cloud technology manager from San Francisco


https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/apr/13/planners-consider-how-to-fit-1-milllion/

New projections by the Arkansas Economic Development Institute at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock are predicting 974,275 residents in Benton and Washington counties in 25 years. Benton County is predicted to have 545,893 and Washington County 428,382.

U.S. 412 is the only major highway and truck route from Tulsa to northeastern Arkansas, and it cuts right through the city. The 412 Bypass is being built in stages on the northern edge of town.

"East and west was always a challenge, with 412 going through the middle of Springdale. One of the things I think will help traffic congestion is to get the bypass all the way over to Highway 265 so a lot of that truck traffic that's just going through the region doesn't have to come through Springdale," Christie said.

The city is adding another overpass across Interstate 49 to continue to move traffic across the interstate to the ever-growing west side. Residential and commercial developments are regularly being approved by the city near Arvest Ballpark and Arkansas Children's Northwest hospital, both west of the interstate.


I am still looking for some recent demographics on where these people are coming from.

The most common out-of-state plates I see in the area are the ever present Texas, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Kansas, but in much larger quantities now.  I have also seen a large number of Illinois, Florida, California :-o, and Washington.  I sporadically see plates from every other state besides Hawaii (even including Alaska), but those are most likely those just passing through to other destinations now that I-49 is somewhat better connected, or are here for tourism purposes.  I think with the Great Resignation that's upon us, folks are realizing how much they can do over the Internet, and are looking for cheaper places that are now built out with Gig fiber like this area.
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2970 on: July 06, 2021, 04:38:45 PM »

If I'm not mistaking? Isn't the NWA one of the fastest growing areas in the country especially among retirees? And this has been going on for 20 years. Keep in mind a lot of people from California and the Northeast will continue to move there because of the low cost of living. Add that to whenever someone's house gets destroyed by California wildfires. One of the first places they relocate to is NWA

If the influx into NWA continues unabated, you can bet your last dollar that housing costs will at least steadily rise if not shoot up dramatically!  As far as CA outflow is concerned, NWA is just one of the regions, along with Boise, the I-35 corridor between San Antonio and Austin, and the upper Mississippi Valley between La Crosse and the Twin Cities that have become desirable relocation spots.  The availability of appropriate jobs is a prime factor driving those other than retirees; but occasionally the prevailing attitudes of a region become a deciding factor.  Back about 1992 a business colleague, who is gay, bought, with his partner, a house on a sizeable piece of land outside Rogers, AR primarily to take advantage of the difference in the cost of living compared to the South Bay area.  They were back in Sunnyvale by 1995; they never felt welcomed or even accepted by the local population at large.  Granted that their experience might have been something of an anomaly -- but nevertheless some regions may be more accommodating and even desirable to those who share similar sociopolitical views with a region's dominant paradigm.   Of course continued influx may result in something of a shift in that paradigm, but that's something that would come about over time -- even decades!   

Prices have gone nuts around here for sure.  Subdivisions and apartment complexes being built as fast as humanly possible, but not fast enough.  Since graduating from the U of A in 1997, I've lived in 2 houses.  Still have them both, but changing over the little old house in downtown Bentonville from long term rental to an AirBnB, likely beginning next week after we get our documentation and insurance policy together now that the remodeling is wrapped up.  If you believe Zillow estimates, and I'm sure real estate agencies likely wouldn't, the house we live in just outside of Fayetteville in Wedington Woods has close to doubled in price since we bought at what we thought was the worst possible time in 2008.  The little old house in Bentonville has gone up 6 fold, not because of the house, but because of proximity to all of the attractions/amenities that have developed since Benton County went wet and the Walton grandkids started investing in their hometown along with the Walton Foundation.  Little houses like mine are all being snapped up at what I would consider ridiculous prices, then an excavator comes in and places into dumpsters so that a 2 story with detached garage and an AirBnB apartment overhead can be built.  Or 3 story townhouses across the entire face of the block if close to the downtown core a block and a half away.
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sparker

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2971 on: July 06, 2021, 05:44:56 PM »

If I'm not mistaking? Isn't the NWA one of the fastest growing areas in the country especially among retirees? And this has been going on for 20 years. Keep in mind a lot of people from California and the Northeast will continue to move there because of the low cost of living. Add that to whenever someone's house gets destroyed by California wildfires. One of the first places they relocate to is NWA

If the influx into NWA continues unabated, you can bet your last dollar that housing costs will at least steadily rise if not shoot up dramatically!  As far as CA outflow is concerned, NWA is just one of the regions, along with Boise, the I-35 corridor between San Antonio and Austin, and the upper Mississippi Valley between La Crosse and the Twin Cities that have become desirable relocation spots.  The availability of appropriate jobs is a prime factor driving those other than retirees; but occasionally the prevailing attitudes of a region become a deciding factor.  Back about 1992 a business colleague, who is gay, bought, with his partner, a house on a sizeable piece of land outside Rogers, AR primarily to take advantage of the difference in the cost of living compared to the South Bay area.  They were back in Sunnyvale by 1995; they never felt welcomed or even accepted by the local population at large.  Granted that their experience might have been something of an anomaly -- but nevertheless some regions may be more accommodating and even desirable to those who share similar sociopolitical views with a region's dominant paradigm.   Of course continued influx may result in something of a shift in that paradigm, but that's something that would come about over time -- even decades!   

Prices have gone nuts around here for sure.  Subdivisions and apartment complexes being built as fast as humanly possible, but not fast enough.  Since graduating from the U of A in 1997, I've lived in 2 houses.  Still have them both, but changing over the little old house in downtown Bentonville from long term rental to an AirBnB, likely beginning next week after we get our documentation and insurance policy together now that the remodeling is wrapped up.  If you believe Zillow estimates, and I'm sure real estate agencies likely wouldn't, the house we live in just outside of Fayetteville in Wedington Woods has close to doubled in price since we bought at what we thought was the worst possible time in 2008.  The little old house in Bentonville has gone up 6 fold, not because of the house, but because of proximity to all of the attractions/amenities that have developed since Benton County went wet and the Walton grandkids started investing in their hometown along with the Walton Foundation.  Little houses like mine are all being snapped up at what I would consider ridiculous prices, then an excavator comes in and places into dumpsters so that a 2 story with detached garage and an AirBnB apartment overhead can be built.  Or 3 story townhouses across the entire face of the block if close to the downtown core a block and a half away.

Wow -- NWA's getting the type of "teardown" RE purchases now common here in the San Jose area.  Small houses -- if they're on a reasonably sized lot -- are fetching well over $1M (primarily for the lot & location), to be replaced in short order with a house usually between 3K and 4K of floor space that comes damn close to the side property lines (to the consternation of some of the older long-time area residents!).  And those things are either presold or sell within a week or two of the landscaping going in.  Closer to downtown, row houses/townhouses are being built rapidly as well.   Sounds like the dynamics of NWA development are following the pattern seen in areas with longstanding high-end pricing.  Sacramento, 110 miles distant, is seeing comparable pricing to San Jose these days for similar properties; "infill" is being placed where physically possible.  The one limitation I can see with NWA is that while it's "filling out nicely" and expanding outward as needed, the closest comparable metro area would be Tulsa -- likely an impetus for the effort to establish an Interstate corridor between the areas.  Since OK seems to have relatively lax zoning practices (at least according to my cousins who live there), it wouldn't be difficult to imagine housing eventually being built along the present US 412 corridor (and along the original route in turnpike country) -- sporadically at first, but then infill would eventually kick in, so 30 or so years down the line after the E-W interstate is established, it'll be pretty much continuous development between the outskirts of Tulsa and Springdale.  In terms of topology being at least relatively benign toward housing deployment, west of the I-49 "spine" constitutes the path of least resistance with NWA.
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2972 on: July 07, 2021, 12:12:08 AM »

If I'm not mistaking? Isn't the NWA one of the fastest growing areas in the country especially among retirees? And this has been going on for 20 years. Keep in mind a lot of people from California and the Northeast will continue to move there because of the low cost of living. Add that to whenever someone's house gets destroyed by California wildfires. One of the first places they relocate to is NWA

If the influx into NWA continues unabated, you can bet your last dollar that housing costs will at least steadily rise if not shoot up dramatically!  As far as CA outflow is concerned, NWA is just one of the regions, along with Boise, the I-35 corridor between San Antonio and Austin, and the upper Mississippi Valley between La Crosse and the Twin Cities that have become desirable relocation spots.  The availability of appropriate jobs is a prime factor driving those other than retirees; but occasionally the prevailing attitudes of a region become a deciding factor.  Back about 1992 a business colleague, who is gay, bought, with his partner, a house on a sizeable piece of land outside Rogers, AR primarily to take advantage of the difference in the cost of living compared to the South Bay area.  They were back in Sunnyvale by 1995; they never felt welcomed or even accepted by the local population at large.  Granted that their experience might have been something of an anomaly -- but nevertheless some regions may be more accommodating and even desirable to those who share similar sociopolitical views with a region's dominant paradigm.   Of course continued influx may result in something of a shift in that paradigm, but that's something that would come about over time -- even decades!   

Prices have gone nuts around here for sure.  Subdivisions and apartment complexes being built as fast as humanly possible, but not fast enough.  Since graduating from the U of A in 1997, I've lived in 2 houses.  Still have them both, but changing over the little old house in downtown Bentonville from long term rental to an AirBnB, likely beginning next week after we get our documentation and insurance policy together now that the remodeling is wrapped up.  If you believe Zillow estimates, and I'm sure real estate agencies likely wouldn't, the house we live in just outside of Fayetteville in Wedington Woods has close to doubled in price since we bought at what we thought was the worst possible time in 2008.  The little old house in Bentonville has gone up 6 fold, not because of the house, but because of proximity to all of the attractions/amenities that have developed since Benton County went wet and the Walton grandkids started investing in their hometown along with the Walton Foundation.  Little houses like mine are all being snapped up at what I would consider ridiculous prices, then an excavator comes in and places into dumpsters so that a 2 story with detached garage and an AirBnB apartment overhead can be built.  Or 3 story townhouses across the entire face of the block if close to the downtown core a block and a half away.

Wow -- NWA's getting the type of "teardown" RE purchases now common here in the San Jose area.  Small houses -- if they're on a reasonably sized lot -- are fetching well over $1M (primarily for the lot & location), to be replaced in short order with a house usually between 3K and 4K of floor space that comes damn close to the side property lines (to the consternation of some of the older long-time area residents!).  And those things are either presold or sell within a week or two of the landscaping going in.  Closer to downtown, row houses/townhouses are being built rapidly as well.   Sounds like the dynamics of NWA development are following the pattern seen in areas with longstanding high-end pricing.  Sacramento, 110 miles distant, is seeing comparable pricing to San Jose these days for similar properties; "infill" is being placed where physically possible.  The one limitation I can see with NWA is that while it's "filling out nicely" and expanding outward as needed, the closest comparable metro area would be Tulsa -- likely an impetus for the effort to establish an Interstate corridor between the areas.  Since OK seems to have relatively lax zoning practices (at least according to my cousins who live there), it wouldn't be difficult to imagine housing eventually being built along the present US 412 corridor (and along the original route in turnpike country) -- sporadically at first, but then infill would eventually kick in, so 30 or so years down the line after the E-W interstate is established, it'll be pretty much continuous development between the outskirts of Tulsa and Springdale.  In terms of topology being at least relatively benign toward housing deployment, west of the I-49 "spine" constitutes the path of least resistance with NWA.

It's still closer to 1/3 of the $1M mark in Bentonville, unless you're lucky enough to have a decent lot along Central Ave., then it's almost there.  It's infilling more densely closer to the square along the Razorback Greenway hiking/biking trail now with a couple of 4 story developments with the bottom story being garages.  Both are building right along Town Branch as well, so hope they've accounted for the occasional flood.  US-69 marks the westernmost line of Ozark Plateau (and what I consider pleasing terrain in OK), so anything west of there would be trivial to develop as it most closely resembles the Tulsa area with not much required in dirt work to put footers/pads down for structures.  I don't think Tulsa is developing at nearly the clip of NWA at this point in time, but who knows what the future holds.

I actually believe that there'll be just as much development along US-62 both southeast and northwest.  Avoca will be infilled into Rogers within 10 years, and Farmington already has infilled to Fayetteville.  There's really only a couple of miles of Illinois River valley space between Farmington and Prairie Grove at this point, both of which are booming in residential subdivision development.  And US-412 east of Springdale has plenty of room for growth.  I see infill between there and Huntsville just as fast if not faster than growth towards Siloam Springs from Tontitown as land prices are notably cheaper than in Washington and Benton counties.  Lots of open land with ranches and broiler houses out that way.  Sonora got several new schools recently, so it'll grow completely into Springdale in short order like Tontitown, and US-412 is pretty much south of the main body of Beaver Lake, so the White River crossing isn't much of a barrier to development like it is for Benton County with Beaver Lake widening significantly there.  If I was looking for acreage close to NWA with not more than a 35 minute drive back to I-49, I'd personally buy in Madison County now.  If I didn't mind living in Missouri, though, there's probably just as good of deals on land in McDonald County, and it will assuredly take off within the year with the BVB unplugging the bottleneck hopefully in October.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 12:22:31 AM by MikieTimT »
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2973 on: July 07, 2021, 12:17:46 AM »

The NWA region has seen a lot of rapid growth in recent years. Maybe not as much as certain regions in Texas, but pretty significant nonetheless. Unfortunately for the NWA region it is NOT a transportation hub and it will not be able to function as a transportation hub for many years.

Within the Plains region, the Oklahoma City and Kansas City metro areas are very clearly the central transport hubs of the US. Perhaps more so for Kansas City since it has both an extremely major highway hub and rail hub. But Oklahoma City is at the junction of I-35 and I-40 (as well as I-44 and historic US-66).

The NWA region has no cross country Interstate routes. It will be a long time before the I-49 gap between Fort Smith and Texarkana is filled. And when it is finally filled it will be far from a direct route due to some mountainous terrain along the way. Commercial traffic doesn't like that stuff. Even though US-69 in Oklahoma is infected with some speed traps and other stupid nonsense, the direct nature of it between the DFW metro and junction at I-44 in Big Cabin will continue to make the route very attractive to truckers and other commercial vehicles.

There will never be a cross country East-West freeway going through the NWA region. The proposed Interstate upgrade for US-412 will be a short distance regional route.

As for all the real estate trends, a bunch of this feels an awful lot like 2006 all over again. But maybe even worse this time. Home valuations have soared so far out of whack in relation to real wage growth that the whole thing smells like an even worse Ponzi scheme. It is very clearly an absolutely unsustainable situation. There are already dire warning signs. Demand for commercial office space in major cities like NYC, LA and the Bay Area has fallen dramatically. California reported its first year over year net loss in population (over -180,000 residents) since they started keeping records over 100 years ago. "Flyover country" areas like Texas have been gaining new residents due to the migration. But living costs are now soaring there too. The price gouging just can't keep going on and on without consequence. At some point people have to actually start paying for all this $#!+ and when the bill comes due this economy is going to slam into a mountain-thick steel wall.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 12:20:07 AM by Bobby5280 »
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2974 on: July 07, 2021, 12:48:15 AM »

The NWA region has seen a lot of rapid growth in recent years. Maybe not as much as certain regions in Texas, but pretty significant nonetheless. Unfortunately for the NWA region it is NOT a transportation hub and it will not be able to function as a transportation hub for many years.

Within the Plains region, the Oklahoma City and Kansas City metro areas are very clearly the central transport hubs of the US. Perhaps more so for Kansas City since it has both an extremely major highway hub and rail hub. But Oklahoma City is at the junction of I-35 and I-40 (as well as I-44 and historic US-66).

The NWA region has no cross country Interstate routes. It will be a long time before the I-49 gap between Fort Smith and Texarkana is filled. And when it is finally filled it will be far from a direct route due to some mountainous terrain along the way. Commercial traffic doesn't like that stuff. Even though US-69 in Oklahoma is infected with some speed traps and other stupid nonsense, the direct nature of it between the DFW metro and junction at I-44 in Big Cabin will continue to make the route very attractive to truckers and other commercial vehicles.

There will never be a cross country East-West freeway going through the NWA region. The proposed Interstate upgrade for US-412 will be a short distance regional route.

As for all the real estate trends, a bunch of this feels an awful lot like 2006 all over again. But maybe even worse this time. Home valuations have soared so far out of whack in relation to real wage growth that the whole thing smells like an even worse Ponzi scheme. It is very clearly an absolutely unsustainable situation. There are already dire warning signs. Demand for commercial office space in major cities like NYC, LA and the Bay Area has fallen dramatically. California reported its first year over year net loss in population (over -180,000 residents) since they started keeping records over 100 years ago. "Flyover country" areas like Texas have been gaining new residents due to the migration. But living costs are now soaring there too. The price gouging just can't keep going on and on without consequence. At some point people have to actually start paying for all this $#!+ and when the bill comes due this economy is going to slam into a mountain-thick steel wall.

True, the US-412 corridor will never be the backbone of a cross-country Interstate, as we don't even have a handful of those going E/W anyway due to mountain ranges.  But I really don't see US-69 being anything other than a 4-lane US highway in our lifetimes as Oklahoma doesn't have the political will or the willingness to tax themselves to invest in highway infrastructure.  It may be the most direct route between Dallas and KC, but other than the occasional bypass around some of the more notorious speedtraps, I don't see any push toward making a limited access facility along any significant portion of Oklahoma or Kansas south of Ft. Scott.  There aren't any metro areas of significance with any growth to speak of either.  I-49 has Joplin, NWA, Fort Smith, Texarkana, and Shreveport, although I wouldn't say Shreveport or Ft. Smith are growing at any significant rate at this point.  The US-412 corridor isn't likely to grow past Huntsville for the next 30 years, but the Jonesboro metro area is growing at a faster clip than NWA, so I see it growing toward Hardy within that same timeframe, and a bypass around Harrison is being planned, so that would uncork US-412 across northern AR more than anything other than 4 laning the 30 miles between Huntsville and Alpena.

The housing market at no point in the last 25 years in NWA has taken more than 1 or 2 year breather, without any discernible down-tick, and there aren't any shortage of job openings or new businesses starting up.  There's no bubble here, regardless of what may happen in other urban areas around the country that are overvalued.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 12:52:30 AM by MikieTimT »
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