Driving back across I-76 on Friday, I saw a sign that indicated bikes could be on I-76. They had to be kept all the way to the right on the shoulder. Did I see that correctly?
Quote from: msunat97 on August 02, 2021, 08:01:02 AM
Driving back across I-76 on Friday, I saw a sign that indicated bikes could be on I-76. They had to be kept all the way to the right on the shoulder. Did I see that correctly?
Some western Interstates allow bikes on the shoulder. I wouldn't be surprised if the western I-76 allowed it, but definitely not the eastern I-76. (I don't know which one you're referring to.)
You saw that right...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48710663041_c7eb24db6c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hdoT4X)
Quote from: 1 on August 02, 2021, 08:06:42 AM
Quote from: msunat97 on August 02, 2021, 08:01:02 AM
Driving back across I-76 on Friday, I saw a sign that indicated bikes could be on I-76. They had to be kept all the way to the right on the shoulder. Did I see that correctly?
Some western Interstates allow bikes on the shoulder. I wouldn't be surprised if the western I-76 allowed it, but definitely not the eastern I-76. (I don't know which one you're referring to.)
Imagine a bike rolling up to a toll booth on the eastern I-76 :-D
Several Interstates permit bicycle usage in remote areas. I-17 north of Anthem was actually kind of popular with distance cyclists.
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 02, 2021, 10:07:11 AM
Imagine a bike rolling up to a toll booth on the eastern I-76 :-D
I imagine bikes would be free, the same way they are on toll bridges.
Quote from: formulanone on August 02, 2021, 08:27:02 AM
You saw that right...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48710663041_c7eb24db6c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hdoT4X)
and they mean keep FAR right. people haul the MAIL on that road.
This is an occasional subject in here, there are many places out west where that is a necessity in that there is no other way to go. Also, under interstate design standards, primarily the one that requires that shoulders be hard-paved, the western rural interstate is an ideal option. Well-maintained hard surface, long and broad sight lines, generally light traffic and gentle grades make for such ideal conditions.
Also, bicycles and pedestrians are allowed to use the main roadways of the I-79 Ohio River bridge near Pittsburgh, PA.
Mike
Quote from: formulanone on August 02, 2021, 08:27:02 AM
You saw that right...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48710663041_c7eb24db6c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hdoT4X)
Yes! Great info everyone.
In Washington State, just outside Issaquah (https://goo.gl/maps/uPNsJvWA9SLHx3wj7):
(https://i.imgur.com/hNh2PST.png)
Bikes are allowed on all freeways not specifically closed to them (https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/commute-choices/bike/closed).
I frequently rode my bike on freeways across the West (in the Before Times, at least).
The paved shoulders are usually in excellent condition, and the lack of cross traffic generally makes for a safer experience. HOWEVER, a key consideration is how often those shoulders are swept of debris. Trucks in the West have a nasty habit of shredding their tires, leaving debris on the shoulder, often just little pieces of wire that are scarcely visible but will puncture your tubes in no time at all.
Another consideration is that, on some older surfaces, the various DOTs placed rumble strips not only along the white line, but also perpendicular to the direction of travel, leaving little to no clear space to ride without hitting thousands of rumble strips. I've run into this on parts of I-80 near Little America WY, and part of I-15 south of Nephi UT (which I didn't ride) has the same problem.
And in Arizona, I've encountered several shoulders only in fair-poor condition, just a few degrees above gravel. I-40 east of Needles and I-15 in the Virgin River Gorge are pretty miserable ... and, in fact, the Gorge from MP 8-24 is probably a no-go zone despite being 100% legal with posted signage.
On the other hand, I-15 in northern Montana is absolutely wonderful. And for the past year-plus, it's been a truly otherworldly and once-in-a-lifetime experience due to the Canadian border closure. I did much of I-15 north of Great Falls last summer, and there were often times I saw no traffic in either direction, and the traffic that was there was mostly semis who always moved far left.
Oh, but in Montana, there is always of course ... the wind:
(https://i.imgur.com/F4fYxty.jpg)
Nice! I did a lot of cycling on Austin TX's freeways and had plenty of company. I've also biked parts of Corridor H in West Virginia - a 65 MPH expressway.
Quote from: formulanone on August 02, 2021, 08:27:02 AM
You saw that right...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48710663041_c7eb24db6c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hdoT4X)
The technical interpretation of that sign is that, since it's warning of bikes, it's intended for motorists, and thus motorists should keep far right.
Quote from: Kniwt on August 02, 2021, 03:07:35 PM
I frequently rode my bike on freeways across the West (in the Before Times, at least).
(snip)
And in Arizona, I've encountered several shoulders only in fair-poor condition, just a few degrees above gravel. I-40 east of Needles and I-15 in the Virgin River Gorge are pretty miserable ... and, in fact, the Gorge from MP 8-24 is probably a no-go zone despite being 100% legal with posted signage.
I've been toying with the idea of cycling on an Interstate here in Arizona, most likely I-8. I've noticed the shoulders on I-10 east of Tucson are permissible for cycling, but the shoulders look to be in fair condition at best. I'm not sure I would enjoy that experience. In that direction I'd probably stick to old US 80.
I don't think bicycles should be allowed on Interstate Highways. I would never ride a bicycle on an Interstate Highway, that is unless I had a death wish.
Quote from: machias on August 02, 2021, 06:26:43 PM
I've been toying with the idea of cycling on an Interstate here in Arizona, most likely I-8. I've noticed the shoulders on I-10 east of Tucson are permissible for cycling, but the shoulders look to be in fair condition at best. I'm not sure I would enjoy that experience. In that direction I'd probably stick to old US 80.
I've done I-8 from the east end of Yuma as far as Wellton (and also the bike-legal parts from Yuma to El Centro, but that's off-topic on this subforum :) ). Good shoulder, plus you get to see the reverse-direction setup up close. A few eyebrows raised while going through the ICE checkpoint, but no strip-search. ;)
Came back on Old 80 and then a series of county roads connecting to US 95. ICE presence there was, at least to me, extraordinarily strong and visible (some would say "intimidating"), much more so than on I-8, but none of them bothered me. I
did give a middle finger to one of their robot roadside cameras, though. :)
East of Tucson, there's no way to ride on pavement directly to Benson without doing at least a few miles of I-10 (or detouring south
way, way out of the way). But I've avoided doing it for exactly the reasons you cite.
Quote from: NE2 on August 02, 2021, 03:58:41 PM
Quote from: formulanone on August 02, 2021, 08:27:02 AM
You saw that right...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48710663041_c7eb24db6c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hdoT4X)
The technical interpretation of that sign is that, since it's warning of bikes, it's intended for motorists, and thus motorists should keep far right.
Ha! You're so right! Almost the opposite of what they really meant to convey...
As signed, it means "You might encounter cyclists, so keep far to the right."
Quote from: Kniwt on August 02, 2021, 03:07:35 PM
I frequently rode my bike on freeways across the West ... and the lack of cross traffic generally makes for a safer experience.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 02, 2021, 06:31:53 PM
I would never ride a bicycle on an Interstate Highway, that is unless I had a death wish.
Sounds like the real-life experience of someone who's actually done it quite a bit doesn't line up with what you imagine to be true.
Quote from: kphoger on August 02, 2021, 07:26:48 PM
Quote from: Kniwt on August 02, 2021, 03:07:35 PM
I frequently rode my bike on freeways across the West ... and the lack of cross traffic generally makes for a safer experience.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 02, 2021, 06:31:53 PM
I would never ride a bicycle on an Interstate Highway, that is unless I had a death wish.
Sounds like the real-life experience of someone who's actually done it quite a bit doesn't line up with what you imagine to be true.
I find when it comes to discussing cycling with either non-cyclists or people who don't ride one outside a house, this ensues.
Highway Star will rage if this is new info to him/her.
Yeah, I don't see how riding on a freeway with paved shoulders and good minimum standards could possibly be more dangerous than riding on a highway with lower design standards, head-to-head traffic, and cars and trucks moving nearly as fast.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 02, 2021, 06:31:53 PM
I don't think bicycles should be allowed on Interstate Highways. I would never ride a bicycle on an Interstate Highway, that is unless I had a death wish.
I've ridden on one freeway back east but it wasn't marked as an Interstate, just a rural state route built to interstate specs. It was good ride for the most part and the motorists were respectful, but this was 20 years ago.
Generally, people who don't ride on roads have no real-life experiences to talk about. They lump in all cycling on roadways as dangerous and unimaginable while pedaling away on pedestrian-oriented sidewalks and bike paths - or worse yet, on their Pelotons :D
Bikes are allowed on the far northern part of I-25 in Colorado too (Buckeye Road exit up to Wyoming). There is no frontage road alongside that stretch of highway, similar to the pictured part of I-76.
Quote from: keithvh on August 02, 2021, 10:12:15 PM
Bikes are allowed on the far northern part of I-25 in Colorado too (Buckeye Road exit up to Wyoming). There is no frontage road alongside that stretch of highway, similar to the pictured part of I-76.
i imagine traffic counts play a role in allowing this...
i-25 traffic drops pretty dramatically north of sh-14 (mile 269), and even more so north of wellington (mile 278)
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on August 03, 2021, 10:11:10 AM
Quote from: keithvh on August 02, 2021, 10:12:15 PM
Bikes are allowed on the far northern part of I-25 in Colorado too (Buckeye Road exit up to Wyoming). There is no frontage road alongside that stretch of highway, similar to the pictured part of I-76.
i imagine traffic counts play a role in allowing this...
It's much more a function of whether there's a viable frontage road or nearby alternate available. At least on that part of I-25, the no-bikes sign goes up as soon as the paved frontage road reappears.
In California, that's the law: Bikes must be allowed on freeways if no reasonable alternate exists. Thus, there are short segments in the Bay Area of 8-10-lane freeways where bikes are legal. The most notable one is I-280 near CA 35, where traffic counts are anything but light.
There has to be a dividing line between where bikes are allowed on freeways vs. where they are forbidden. Perhaps, I'm guessing that TX, OK, KS, NE and the two Dakotas are the furthest east where you could take your bike onto the freeway, am I right?
Depends. There are expressways and freeways in the east where bicycles are allowed, too. Practically every ADHS corridor route in West Virginia is signed for cyclists. I know I've seen quite a few along portions of I-70 in Maryland where there is no alternative because of how it disconnected US 40 near Hancock.
Quote from: Kniwt on August 03, 2021, 10:16:16 AM
It's much more a function of whether there's a viable frontage road or nearby alternate available. At least on that part of I-25, the no-bikes sign goes up as soon as the paved frontage road reappears.
That would make sense... but as you probably know, there are plenty of rural freeways in Utah that are bike-legal but definitely have viable frontage roads or alternates. The portions of I-15 south of exit 4 and between 10-16 in St George, as well as between Summit and Paragonah, would fall into that category with various urban streets or old US 91 as good alternates that are about the same distance. No idea why you'd need to have a bike-legal I-70 in the Sevier Valley either with old US 89 still intact.
There are also a few
urban freeways and expressways in Utah that do not disallow bicycles. SR 201 is one of those; despite it being legal, I would never ride a bicycle on that east of Magna. The shoulder is narrow enough that going around any cars stopped in it requires entering the main lanes, and there are plenty of good surface alternates that are slower and honestly more fun to bike anyway.
In addition, most of the newer freeways and expressways are technically bike-legal, even though many have a parallel full scale multi-use trail next to them. Legacy Parkway/SR 67 and Mountain View/SR 85 both fall into that category.
Quote from: 1 on August 02, 2021, 08:06:42 AM
Quote from: msunat97 on August 02, 2021, 08:01:02 AM
Driving back across I-76 on Friday, I saw a sign that indicated bikes could be on I-76. They had to be kept all the way to the right on the shoulder. Did I see that correctly?
Some western Interstates allow bikes on the shoulder. I wouldn't be surprised if the western I-76 allowed it, but definitely not the eastern I-76. (I don't know which one you're referring to.)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Abandoned_PA_Turnpike_2019_%281%29.jpg/640px-Abandoned_PA_Turnpike_2019_%281%29.jpg)
(OK, this was eastern I-76)
Quote from: Henry on August 03, 2021, 10:43:19 AM
There has to be a dividing line between where bikes are allowed on freeways vs. where they are forbidden. Perhaps, I'm guessing that TX, OK, KS, NE and the two Dakotas are the furthest east where you could take your bike onto the freeway, am I right?
At least in New England, the only things you could cycle on that would remotely resemble a freeway are "Super-2" freeways (and really only in NH) or any Jersey Freeway that has business and occasional homes on it (US 1, MA 9, MA 146 in Millbury for Massachusetts examples).
Quote from: US 89 on August 03, 2021, 11:34:13 AM
That would make sense... but as you probably know, there are plenty of rural freeways in Utah that are bike-legal but definitely have viable frontage roads or alternates. The portions of I-15 south of exit 4 and between 10-16 in St George, as well as between Summit and Paragonah, would fall into that category with various urban streets or old US 91 as good alternates that are about the same distance.
UDOT has updated its bike rules for southern I-15; now prohibited between exits 2-16, with Bikes Must Exit signage at each end. But plenty of surface streets through there, of course.
Quote from: Kniwt on August 03, 2021, 02:13:45 PM
Quote from: US 89 on August 03, 2021, 11:34:13 AM
That would make sense... but as you probably know, there are plenty of rural freeways in Utah that are bike-legal but definitely have viable frontage roads or alternates. The portions of I-15 south of exit 4 and between 10-16 in St George, as well as between Summit and Paragonah, would fall into that category with various urban streets or old US 91 as good alternates that are about the same distance.
UDOT has updated its bike rules for southern I-15; now prohibited between exits 2-16, with Bikes Must Exit signage at each end. But plenty of surface streets through there, of course.
That makes sense for sure especially with how big St George is now. Every time I go down there it amazes me how much bigger it is than the last time.
Are these updated rules available online anywhere? The only UDOT map I could find (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?layers=5489935f5fce476ba04ca3b59bd536b9) has not been updated.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 02, 2021, 06:31:53 PM
I don't think bicycles should be allowed on Interstate Highways. I would never ride a bicycle on an Interstate Highway, that is unless I had a death wish.
They should only be banned if a suitable and practical bike-only facility is close and parallel. So unless the USBR program gets billions in funding, this is the only option.
Quote from: Bruce on August 03, 2021, 05:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 02, 2021, 06:31:53 PM
I don't think bicycles should be allowed on Interstate Highways. I would never ride a bicycle on an Interstate Highway, that is unless I had a death wish.
They should only be banned if a suitable and practical bike-only facility is close and parallel. So unless the USBR program gets billions in funding, this is the only option.
I'm actually a bit surprised that there is not a 'USBR' planned in the I-70 corridor west of Denver. It has lots of established paralleling pathways and is seriously scenic.
Mike
Allowing bicycles on any freeways in highly urbanized areas is not a very good idea for either motorists or bicyclists. There are plenty of parallel adjacent streets in urban areas for bicyclists. As long as there are adequate-width right shoulders on rural freeways, I see no problems with motorists and bicyclists sharing the pavement. Of course, the rural freeways should be properly signed to lead bicyclists off the freeway at off ramps, and back on to the freeway at corresponding on ramps. In instances where two freeways meet in a rural area, perhaps appropriate paths could be built outside the footprint of the interchange.
Quote from: US 89 on August 03, 2021, 04:24:10 PM
Quote from: Kniwt on August 03, 2021, 02:13:45 PM
Quote from: US 89 on August 03, 2021, 11:34:13 AM
That would make sense... but as you probably know, there are plenty of rural freeways in Utah that are bike-legal but definitely have viable frontage roads or alternates. The portions of I-15 south of exit 4 and between 10-16 in St George, as well as between Summit and Paragonah, would fall into that category with various urban streets or old US 91 as good alternates that are about the same distance.
UDOT has updated its bike rules for southern I-15; now prohibited between exits 2-16, with Bikes Must Exit signage at each end. But plenty of surface streets through there, of course.
That makes sense for sure especially with how big St George is now. Every time I go down there it amazes me how much bigger it is than the last time.
Are these updated rules available online anywhere? The only UDOT map I could find (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?layers=5489935f5fce476ba04ca3b59bd536b9) has not been updated.
That online map is definitely quite old and hasn't been updated in years.
North of Exit 16, the gravel section of Old 91 to Harrisburg and Leeds was finally (re-?)paved with chip-seal last year, so it's a decent way to stay off I-15 all the way to Exit 27 ... although the southbound hill has sections of 13% grade.
The growth in metro StG has reignited big-time with a combination of Covid and politics (neither of which we'll get into here in this thread!). UT 7 is now lined with new housing developments at Exits 1, 3, 6, and 10, and thousands more homes are starting to be built way out at Exit 15. Traffic counts are still relatively low, but I'm sure UDOT is starting to think about the day UT 7 will need to be four-laned east of Exit 6.
Quote from: Concrete Bob on August 03, 2021, 11:41:58 PM
Of course, the rural freeways should be properly signed to lead bicyclists off the freeway at off ramps, and back on to the freeway at corresponding on ramps. In instances where two freeways meet in a rural area, perhaps appropriate paths could be built outside the footprint of the interchange.
Yes, it could be a little dicey if you encounter a cloverleaf or cloverstack, I suppose.
Quote from: Concrete Bob on August 03, 2021, 11:41:58 PM
Of course, the rural freeways should be properly signed to lead bicyclists off the freeway at off ramps, and back on to the freeway at corresponding on ramps.
Most cyclists who are experienced and confident enough to ride on freeways just cross the off/on ramps perpendicular to traffic when it's safe to do so. In fact, British Columbia signs some of its freeways exactly this way. Here's an example on BC 17 just outside Victoria:
(https://i.imgur.com/UAV1xrv.png)
Quote from: Kniwt on August 04, 2021, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: Concrete Bob on August 03, 2021, 11:41:58 PM
Of course, the rural freeways should be properly signed to lead bicyclists off the freeway at off ramps, and back on to the freeway at corresponding on ramps.
Most cyclists who are experienced and confident enough to ride on freeways just cross the off/on ramps perpendicular to traffic when it's safe to do so.
Also cyclists if required to use offramps, say at diamond interchanges, would not be too happy about the extra hill climbing having to be done if the ramp rises in elevation to meet the minor road's overpass. I would use the BC method most of the time unless exiting traffic is
really heavy.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on August 04, 2021, 12:22:24 PM
Quote from: Kniwt on August 04, 2021, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: Concrete Bob on August 03, 2021, 11:41:58 PM
Of course, the rural freeways should be properly signed to lead bicyclists off the freeway at off ramps, and back on to the freeway at corresponding on ramps.
Most cyclists who are experienced and confident enough to ride on freeways just cross the off/on ramps perpendicular to traffic when it's safe to do so.
Also cyclists if required to use offramps, say at diamond interchanges, would not be too happy about the extra hill climbing having to be done if the ramp rises in elevation to meet the minor road's overpass. I would use the BC method most of the time unless exiting traffic is really heavy.
Outside of Florida, I think that topography change is the least of a cyclist's climbing problems :-D
I love that BC signage. Though I've never taken a ride on an interstate (or interstate-style Canadian freeways) I have gone on things like super-2 freeways, and the off ramps present the biggest danger. That's good instruction that minimizes incursions. I've typically done the same approaching them unless I can see so far back that there is no traffic to compete with me. That whole not violating Newton's law of physics and such.
Quote from: Henry on August 03, 2021, 10:43:19 AM
There has to be a dividing line between where bikes are allowed on freeways vs. where they are forbidden. Perhaps, I'm guessing that TX, OK, KS, NE and the two Dakotas are the furthest east where you could take your bike onto the freeway, am I right?
Nah. I-79 in Pittsburgh allows them in some sections. Thats probably the furthest east you'll find an Interstate that allows bikes
Quote from: Henry on August 03, 2021, 10:43:19 AM
There has to be a dividing line between where bikes are allowed on freeways vs. where they are forbidden. Perhaps, I'm guessing that TX, OK, KS, NE and the two Dakotas are the furthest east where you could take your bike onto the freeway, am I right?
I'm sure it's a combination of alternative access, traffic counts on the rural interstate, shoulder width and condition, and requests from cyclists in the area. Given all that, I could easily see bikes allowed on the shoulder of rural interstates in MN, WI, MI, ME, NH, VT...
The other day, here in Madison, I saw a bicyclist riding on the shoulder of STH 30 eastbound between Exits 1B (Fair Oaks Avenue) and Exit 1C (US 51/Stoughton Road). I still think bicycles and freeways do not mix.