Shoulder Lanes Dangerous or Useful

[Georgia Guardrail]

There seem to be quite a few of these in Atlanta.  There are some on SR 400 and I-85 north of the city.  Not sure about other major SE cities.  I find them very dangerous.  I'm surprised they are legal to be honest. 

Most drivers don't expect people to be over in the shoulder unless they are having a breakdown.  It makes people uneasy when they see someone pass them on the right shoulder when all the driver wants to do is get on the exit to the access road (as in my case Northridge Drive off of SR 400).

To me it seems a cheap and dangerous way to solve traffic issues without impacting precious NIMBYs.  I say instead of shoulder lanes, widen the freeway or build new exclusive toll lanes, or do nothing at all.  Thoughts?  I don't really see any pros.

[Alps]

Both, since this is far from the only agency that uses it. I-93 in Massachusetts frightens me as a road that would do it, but they do it.

[jeffandnicole]

There seem to be quite a few of these in Atlanta.  There are some on SR 400 and I-85 north of the city.  Not sure about other major SE cities.  I find them very dangerous.  I'm surprised they are legal to be honest. 

Most drivers don't expect people to be over in the shoulder unless they are having a breakdown.  It makes people uneasy when they see someone pass them on the right shoulder when all the driver wants to do is get on the exit to the access road (as in my case Northridge Drive off of SR 400).

To me it seems a cheap and dangerous way to solve traffic issues without impacting precious NIMBYs.  I say instead of shoulder lanes, widen the freeway or build new exclusive toll lanes, or do nothing at all.  Thoughts?  I don't really see any pros.

Widening the freeway and building toll lanes costs billions.  Using the existing shoulder costs maybe several million, depending how extravagant they want to go with markings, signage, automated arrows, etc. 

So, some pros are it adds capacity to the existing width of the pavement, at a fraction of the cost of widening the highway.

[SectorZ]

In the 1990's when I-93 in Massachusetts started allowing the rush-hour shoulder use, I thought it was going to be a colossal mess leading to something bad. In reality, after about 25 years, there's been minimal issues. The state installed lots of large cutoffs off the breakdown lane.

Same for MA 3 on the south shore, and I-95 between I-93 (Canton) and I-90 before that was actually widened to eight lanes.

Also not to re-direct discussion, but I feel the large cutoffs installed in Massachusetts where breakdown lane usage exists should be rolled out everywhere. If you can limp your car to one as a tire is going flat, it is MUCH safer to change one in that than just the breakdown lane, and on 93 people tend to use them for those purposes even when the breakdown lanes are closed.

[zzcarp]

The I-70 mountain shoulder lanes near Idaho Springs, Colorado, are both dangerous and practically useless. They weren't even open Saturday evening even with stop-and-go traffic in the normal lanes, plus the shoulder lane is narrow, so if you're in the leftmost standard lane, it feels like you're going to lose a mirror or worse. Not one of CDOT's best moves IMHO.

[ran4sh]

There seem to be quite a few of these in Atlanta.  There are some on SR 400 and I-85 north of the city.  Not sure about other major SE cities.  I find them very dangerous.  I'm surprised they are legal to be honest. 

Most drivers don't expect people to be over in the shoulder unless they are having a breakdown.  It makes people uneasy when they see someone pass them on the right shoulder when all the driver wants to do is get on the exit to the access road (as in my case Northridge Drive off of SR 400).

To me it seems a cheap and dangerous way to solve traffic issues without impacting precious NIMBYs.  I say instead of shoulder lanes, widen the freeway or build new exclusive toll lanes, or do nothing at all.  Thoughts?  I don't really see any pros.

I agree. I think engineers generally agree that shoulders should not be used as traffic lanes, but unfortunately decisions about roads are often made by politicians and not engineers.

In fact I think, (in all locations) Interstates should be required to meet shoulder standards, even if this means restriping the road to take away one or two lanes.

[skluth]

There was one on EB I-264 in Norfolk when I lived there in the 2000s that was only open during evening rush hours. I lived in Portsmouth and worked on the Navy Base so rarely was in that area during rush hour so don't know its efficacy or whether there were problems. I'm sure it helped as long as nobody broke down as there were always backups there, hence the introduction of a shoulder lane.

[Ga293]

Even ignoring breakdowns, I wonder how they affect emergency vehicle response times?

[triplemultiplex]

They'd be more useful if they were used more dynamically.  The new ones on the Beltline in Madison seem to only be open on a rigid schedule of morning and evening commutes.  But if there's a mid-day crunch or a weekend event making things heavy, there doesn't appear to be a system in place to open the shoulder.  Or maybe there is but the threshold is higher than I think it should be?  I dunno.

[kphoger]

Frankly, I think that heavy traffic volume times are the most dangerous times to open up the shoulder.

[bwana39]

There seem to be quite a few of these in Atlanta.  There are some on SR 400 and I-85 north of the city.  Not sure about other major SE cities.  I find them very dangerous.  I'm surprised they are legal to be honest. 

Most drivers don't expect people to be over in the shoulder unless they are having a breakdown.  It makes people uneasy when they see someone pass them on the right shoulder when all the driver wants to do is get on the exit to the access road (as in my case Northridge Drive off of SR 400).

To me it seems a cheap and dangerous way to solve traffic issues without impacting precious NIMBYs.  I say instead of shoulder lanes, widen the freeway or build new exclusive toll lanes, or do nothing at all.  Thoughts?  I don't really see any pros.

Can you explain? Give links to streetviews, etc?

[1995hoo]

Back in the early 1990s, I-95 in Virginia had a part-time shoulder lane in the area roughly between somewhere around Newington (now Exit 166) and the northern exit for Woodbridge (Exit 161). It looked like any other lane except for the solid line separating it from the normal lanes, and there were periodic big white signs stating the hours during which it could be used as a lane. The result was somewhat predictable: Someone broke down and stopped there during the period when it was the shoulder (i.e., when it was not OK to be driving there). A tractor-trailer being driven illegally in the shoulder lane then smashed into the disabled car (a Mustang, as I recall) and killed the driver. VDOT wound up opening the shoulder on a 24/7 basis after that incident until they got around to widening the road. That incident was a major reason why the now-defunct I-66 shoulder lanes were painted a different color from the other lanes and had red "X"/green arrow signals overhead to indicate when it was OK to use the lane. Of course there were still violators, but it seemed to be less rampant of a problem than it was on I-95.

The problem with using the shoulder as a lane and then having designated "emergency pulloff" areas is what happens when a car breaks down at a location other than the designated emergency pulloffs. My mom had that problem once–she used I-66 in the reverse direction of prevailing traffic to get to work and in 2008 her car broke down on westbound I-66, in the morning, at a spot not near an emergency pulloff (I believe I recall the car simply died on her). Thankfully, traffic in that direction wasn't too heavy and nobody was ignoring the red "X" signals. That sort of thing has always made me suspicious of shoulder lanes as a long-term solution to traffic problems, but I do think the different-colored pavement and the lane-use signals were a definite design improvement over simply posting signs with the open/closed hours.

[spooky]

Even ignoring breakdowns, I wonder how they affect emergency vehicle response times?

In my experience on MA 3, during congested times when breakdown lane use is allowed, the emergency vehicle tries to pass between the two travel lanes rather than use the breakdown lane. Vehicles in the left-most lane move left towards the edge/guardrail, while drivers in the right move right so that the emergency vehicle can pass.

If there are not stop-and-go conditions, the emergency vehicle will use the shoulder and expect drivers to move left to clear the lane.

[fillup420]

I would say dangerous in NC due to the number of abandoned broken down cars frequently left on the shoulders...

[jeffandnicole]

I would say dangerous in NC due to the number of abandoned broken down cars frequently left on the shoulders...

I think on roadways that use the shoulder as a lane, they actively will monitor and tow away a vehicle prior to the lane's opening.

[plain]

Back in the early 1990s, I-95 in Virginia had a part-time shoulder lane in the area roughly between somewhere around Newington (now Exit 166) and the northern exit for Woodbridge (Exit 161). It looked like any other lane except for the solid line separating it from the normal lanes, and there were periodic big white signs stating the hours during which it could be used as a lane. The result was somewhat predictable: Someone broke down and stopped there during the period when it was the shoulder (i.e., when it was not OK to be driving there). A tractor-trailer being driven illegally in the shoulder lane then smashed into the disabled car (a Mustang, as I recall) and killed the driver. VDOT wound up opening the shoulder on a 24/7 basis after that incident until they got around to widening the road. That incident was a major reason why the now-defunct I-66 shoulder lanes were painted a different color from the other lanes and had red "X"/green arrow signals overhead to indicate when it was OK to use the lane. Of course there were still violators, but it seemed to be less rampant of a problem than it was on I-95.

The problem with using the shoulder as a lane and then having designated "emergency pulloff" areas is what happens when a car breaks down at a location other than the designated emergency pulloffs. My mom had that problem once–she used I-66 in the reverse direction of prevailing traffic to get to work and in 2008 her car broke down on westbound I-66, in the morning, at a spot not near an emergency pulloff (I believe I recall the car simply died on her). Thankfully, traffic in that direction wasn't too heavy and nobody was ignoring the red "X" signals. That sort of thing has always made me suspicious of shoulder lanes as a long-term solution to traffic problems, but I do think the different-colored pavement and the lane-use signals were a definite design improvement over simply posting signs with the open/closed hours.

There was one on EB I-264 in Norfolk when I lived there in the 2000s that was only open during evening rush hours. I lived in Portsmouth and worked on the Navy Base so rarely was in that area during rush hour so don't know its efficacy or whether there were problems. I'm sure it helped as long as nobody broke down as there were always backups there, hence the introduction of a shoulder lane.

I-264 still have the shoulder lanes, complete with the red X/green arrow (before it just had VMS's stating whether or not they're open). And there are emergency pull offs at various locations along them. I've seen a vehicle break down in the shoulder lane only twice in 25 years or so, I don't think they're a big issue.

I-64 between I-564 and the HRBT will also include them when the widening project is done.

[US 89]

There seem to be quite a few of these in Atlanta.  There are some on SR 400 and I-85 north of the city.  Not sure about other major SE cities.  I find them very dangerous.  I'm surprised they are legal to be honest. 

Most drivers don't expect people to be over in the shoulder unless they are having a breakdown.  It makes people uneasy when they see someone pass them on the right shoulder when all the driver wants to do is get on the exit to the access road (as in my case Northridge Drive off of SR 400).

To me it seems a cheap and dangerous way to solve traffic issues without impacting precious NIMBYs.  I say instead of shoulder lanes, widen the freeway or build new exclusive toll lanes, or do nothing at all.  Thoughts?  I don't really see any pros.

Can you explain? Give links to streetviews, etc?

The shoulder lane on I-85 in Gwinnett County, with overhead indication of whether it is open for traffic:

https://goo.gl/maps/41Tud2koLFi3M3Y78

[ran4sh]

Even ignoring breakdowns, I wonder how they affect emergency vehicle response times?

In my experience on MA 3, during congested times when breakdown lane use is allowed, the emergency vehicle tries to pass between the two travel lanes rather than use the breakdown lane. Vehicles in the left-most lane move left towards the edge/guardrail, while drivers in the right move right so that the emergency vehicle can pass.

If there are not stop-and-go conditions, the emergency vehicle will use the shoulder and expect drivers to move left to clear the lane.

There is shoulder use on a roadway which only has two lanes in each direction? Why was it never widened to three lanes first?

[kphoger]

I would say dangerous in NC due to the number of abandoned broken down cars frequently left on the shoulders...

I think on roadways that use the shoulder as a lane, they actively will monitor and tow away a vehicle prior to the lane's opening.

Which is all well and good if you assume nobody will break down after the lane's opening.

[jeffandnicole]

I would say dangerous in NC due to the number of abandoned broken down cars frequently left on the shoulders...

I think on roadways that use the shoulder as a lane, they actively will monitor and tow away a vehicle prior to the lane's opening.

Which is all well and good if you assume nobody will break down after the lane's opening.

I don't think anyone assumes that. Of course it happens. And just like any other roadway that has lanes curb to curb, traffic will jam and they'll get aid and a tow out there as quickly as possible.

[Mppheel]

Back in 2016 I went to my aunt's funeral in NJ.  We took I-80 from Hackettstown to Bergen County and there were no shoulders in use.. it looked they needed another lane so they just made the  shoulder a lane. This was at the cut through the Watching mountains.  It was probably 5 lanes each way and the right lane was yards from rock cut.  I thought what happens when there's a wreck with zero shoulder???

[jeffandnicole]

While we're focusing on freeways, NJ took it one step further and made one of the more localized sections of US 1 that has 2 lanes per direction, driveways and cross streets, and a 55 mph speed limit, and converted the right shoulders to a part-time travel lane.   Termed "Hard Shoulder Running", the lane is equipped with overhead red X's or green arrows when the lane is open or closed.  Nearly every driveway and road entering US 1 has a sign installed explaining the possibility of encountering traffic on the shoulder.

Mainline US 1: https://goo.gl/maps/fNARwa6U1M2A3PCN9
Mainline US 1: https://goo.gl/maps/Fh4zQ59CzD2AdZmA8
Entering US 1 from a side street/parking lot: https://goo.gl/maps/dDnGm9MZjGWLz8Vc8

[Alps]

Back in 2016 I went to my aunt's funeral in NJ.  We took I-80 from Hackettstown to Bergen County and there were no shoulders in use.. it looked they needed another lane so they just made the  shoulder a lane. This was at the cut through the Watching mountains.  It was probably 5 lanes each way and the right lane was yards from rock cut.  I thought what happens when there's a wreck with zero shoulder???

You're talking a climbing lane aren't you.

[Alps]

Entering US 1 from a side street/parking lot: https://goo.gl/maps/dDnGm9MZjGWLz8Vc8

with a car in the right lane! 

[sprjus4]

While we're focusing on freeways, NJ took it one step further and made one of the more localized sections of US 1 that has 2 lanes per direction, driveways and cross streets, and a 55 mph speed limit, and converted the right shoulders to a part-time travel lane.   Termed "Hard Shoulder Running", the lane is equipped with overhead red X's or green arrows when the lane is open or closed.  Nearly every driveway and road entering US 1 has a sign installed explaining the possibility of encountering traffic on the shoulder.

Mainline US 1: https://goo.gl/maps/fNARwa6U1M2A3PCN9
Mainline US 1: https://goo.gl/maps/Fh4zQ59CzD2AdZmA8
Entering US 1 from a side street/parking lot: https://goo.gl/maps/dDnGm9MZjGWLz8Vc8

Why don't they just slightly widen the pavement and turn it into a permanent travel lane? It's not a freeway facility and does not have conform to having full paved shoulders.