North Carolina

[sprjus4]

^ Then his initial point still stands. He would not be surprised if US-220 is moved back to its original alignment, given precedent of other routes in North Carolina, such as US-117, and other sections of US-220.

[froggie]

And MY point, which seems to have been lost amongst the emotion, is that the AASHTO SCRN would be violating its own policies in approving such a move.

Is there precedent?  Sure.  But it doesn't mean they're not ignoring their own policy...

[Strider]

And MY point, which seems to have been lost amongst the emotion, is that the AASHTO SCRN would be violating its own policies in approving such a move.

Is there precedent?  Sure.  But it doesn't mean they're not ignoring their own policy...

Like sprjus4 said, my initial point stands unless AASHTO has something to say about it. If they don't.. oh well. That's on them.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Y'all are worried about highway numbers and fictional roads when NCDOT is a few billion dollars short of funding their "committed" projects. Get ready for more project delays in the next STIP until Uncle Sam can print some more money.

P6.0 & STIP Program Update, August 4, 2021

[Rothman]

Y'all are worried about highway numbers and fictional roads when NCDOT is a few billion dollars short of funding their "committed" projects. Get ready for more project delays in the next STIP until Uncle Sam can print some more money.

P6.0 & STIP Program Update, August 4, 2021

Uncle Sam should be granting them more money if the bill passes.

[plain]

Y'all are worried about highway numbers and fictional roads when NCDOT is a few billion dollars short of funding their "committed" projects. Get ready for more project delays in the next STIP until Uncle Sam can print some more money.

P6.0 & STIP Program Update, August 4, 2021

NC have only themselves to blame for having so many "committed projects" going all at once in the first place.

[wdcrft63]

Y'all are worried about highway numbers and fictional roads when NCDOT is a few billion dollars short of funding their "committed" projects. Get ready for more project delays in the next STIP until Uncle Sam can print some more money.

North Carolina started calling itself the "Good Roads State" more than 100 years ago. Of course it hasn't always deserved that name, but the fact is that building roads is politically very popular in the state. There's a reason why NC has a higher gas tax than nearly all other Southern states. Every county and every town has ideas about roads to build or improve and NCDOT has the task of trying to keep up with all these demands.

[fillup420]

Y'all are worried about highway numbers and fictional roads when NCDOT is a few billion dollars short of funding their "committed" projects. Get ready for more project delays in the next STIP until Uncle Sam can print some more money.

North Carolina started calling itself the "Good Roads State" more than 100 years ago. Of course it hasn't always deserved that name, but the fact is that building roads is politically very popular in the state. There's a reason why NC has a higher gas tax than nearly all other Southern states. Every county and every town has ideas about roads to build or improve and NCDOT has the task of trying to keep up with all these demands.

I may be biased but I believe NC has the best primary road network in all the Southeast. That includes interstates, US and NC highways, and most SR roads. Pavement quality, signage, and road design are very good overall.

[architect77]

Y'all are worried about highway numbers and fictional roads when NCDOT is a few billion dollars short of funding their "committed" projects. Get ready for more project delays in the next STIP until Uncle Sam can print some more money.

North Carolina started calling itself the "Good Roads State" more than 100 years ago. Of course it hasn't always deserved that name, but the fact is that building roads is politically very popular in the state. There's a reason why NC has a higher gas tax than nearly all other Southern states. Every county and every town has ideas about roads to build or improve and NCDOT has the task of trying to keep up with all these demands.

No, back at the dawn of the automobile era, North Carolina tried to keep up with the prosperous Northeastern states by distinguishing itself as having the first and most paved roads in the country.

At one point is was recognized nationally as having the most miles of paved roads. It earned the moniker "The Good Roads State" from the rest of the country. Thankfully, the powers that be went all out adopting the highest standards for all pieces of the total infrastructure. The grading, bridge design, culverts and signage have always been high quality. Overhead signs have rounded corners (more expensive), shoulder signs have concrete footings (I-40/I-85 duplex's blue amenities signs are still perfect after 25 years of weather and elements).

Believe it or not, but the yellow (bridge ices before road) signs used to have a horizonal hinge through the middle and NCDOT would fold every one of them down statewide in the summer when it wasn't applicable. They were metal colored half-sign triangles during the summer.

Georgia doesn't have any overheads on non-interstate roads nor at junctions with interstates, only on the interstates themselves. That alone amounts to tens of millions that NC spends more on.

NC's gas tax was high, now it's average, because it maintains all the roads in the state where as in most other states each county must maintain its own roads which would be from another form of tax that residents pay. I like NCDOT doing it all because there's a uniform look to the roads across the state and no chance of counties trying to evoke a different aesthetic.

But back then and still today, NC believes that highways are the best way to lift all 100 counties out of poverty and on to prosperity. That is why there is so much emphasis on highway infrastructure and though it can get big and expensive to maintain, it still seems to be good for maintaining a competitive edge for a bright future.

[architect77]

photo of the day on the other end of I-40:

barstow by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

[sparker]

photo of the day on the other end of I-40:

barstow by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

That must be a newer edition of that particular sign concept; the one I remember from the early 2010's was still button-copy on porcelain, considerably higher, and had the I-40 shield centered at the top -- and the KM distance under the mileage.  Also, the sound wall wasn't there then -- knowing D8, the signage change occurred when that was built, but they opted for a smaller and simpler aspect. 

[sprjus4]

^ At least they kept it! North Carolina can't say the same with their "Barstow" version.

[CanesFan27]

The expansion of the overall Amtrak network is a definite possibility when/if the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passes.  In North Carolina, it would lead to a significant expansion of intrastate service to Wilmington and Asheville.  I take a look at the proposals, some of the hurdles, and what you can expect along these proposed new passenger rail lines.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/08/exploring-north-carolinas-possible.html

[LM117]

^ At least they kept it! North Carolina can't say the same with their "Barstow" version.

NC would still have it's sign if people had stopped stealing it.

[sparker]

^ At least they kept it! North Carolina can't say the same with their "Barstow" version.

NC would still have it's sign if people had stopped stealing it.

The CA version of the sign's probably safe; no one's going to bother to drive out to Barstow just to make off with it (unless they could sell it)! 

[LM117]

^ At least they kept it! North Carolina can't say the same with their "Barstow" version.

NC would still have it's sign if people had stopped stealing it.

The CA version of the sign's probably safe; no one's going to bother to drive out to Barstow just to make off with it (unless they could sell it)!

"Honey, wake up the kids. We're going to Barstow!"

[sparker]

^ At least they kept it! North Carolina can't say the same with their "Barstow" version.

NC would still have it's sign if people had stopped stealing it.

The CA version of the sign's probably safe; no one's going to bother to drive out to Barstow just to make off with it (unless they could sell it)!

"Honey, wake up the kids. We're going through Barstow!"

FTFY 

[wdcrft63]

The expansion of the overall Amtrak network is a definite possibility when/if the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passes.  In North Carolina, it would lead to a significant expansion of intrastate service to Wilmington and Asheville.  I take a look at the proposals, some of the hurdles, and what you can expect along these proposed new passenger rail lines.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/08/exploring-north-carolinas-possible.html

Thanks for a great piece on possible passenger rail expansion in NC. One amendment: you're correct that there are three round trips daily between Raleigh and Charlotte on the Piedmont, but there is also a fourth round trip on the Carolinian, the through train to and from New York. Before the pandemic hit there was a plan to add a fifth round trip.

[CanesFan27]

The expansion of the overall Amtrak network is a definite possibility when/if the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passes.  In North Carolina, it would lead to a significant expansion of intrastate service to Wilmington and Asheville.  I take a look at the proposals, some of the hurdles, and what you can expect along these proposed new passenger rail lines.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/08/exploring-north-carolinas-possible.html

Thanks for a great piece on possible passenger rail expansion in NC. One amendment: you're correct that there are three round trips daily between Raleigh and Charlotte on the Piedmont, but there is also a fourth round trip on the Carolinian, the through train to and from New York. Before the pandemic hit there was a plan to add a fifth round trip.

Thanks and you are right - I kept going I know there are four, but kept forgetting that the NC leg of the Carolinian counts as well.  I'll make that correction here shortly.

[architect77]

The expansion of the overall Amtrak network is a definite possibility when/if the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passes.  In North Carolina, it would lead to a significant expansion of intrastate service to Wilmington and Asheville.  I take a look at the proposals, some of the hurdles, and what you can expect along these proposed new passenger rail lines.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/08/exploring-north-carolinas-possible.html

Amtrak doesn't need to expand long haul routes or ones with low ridership.

If any money is sent to Amtrak, they need to get the busy routes in sturdy condition with speed and safety objectives.

I'm talking the Northeast corridor first, get the new tunnel under the Hudson started, and the same for any other routes in the country that are busy enough to justify the first round of available money.

The sweet spot for trains is around 500 miles, otherwise flying is faster, cheaper, etc. The Northeast and Mid atlantic and Southeast have so much air traffic that there's a limit to future growth even with GPS guidance replacing radar.

Driving 500 miles sucks, so that's when the train is the perfect mode of travel. It's smooth, quiet and lulls you to sleep even now in the Northeast corridor. It's the most luxurious way to travel.

NC already got what most states didn't....$600 million from Obama's high speed rail initiative and NC spent all of it bolstering the Raleigh to Charlotte tracks, Union station in Raleigh, and some freight terminals in Charlotte soon.

So I don't agree that expansion inside NC right now is urgent enough for this rare funding.

But I do think that resurrecting the S line beelining from Raleigh to Richmond is worthy of some funding. now that VA owns all of it and NC owns it's portion, there's but 100 miles that separates NC"s successful railroad from the Northeast Corridor.

Virginia is going all in with rail, and I predict the two states will cough up the $4 billion to reinstate the S line which will bring D.C. to possibly 3-3.5 hours from Raleigh making day trips very doable, and the nation's capital will always be enlightening for the public to want to do those day trips.

After that, I think faster rail from Charlotte to Atlanta is justified as the population of North Georgia is already over 7 million, and upstate SC is the most populated region of SC and it's just a hugely significant industrial corridor.

NC once again had their shovel ready ducks in a row and that's why they got $600 million. I think they'll be given more because the planning has already been fleshed out.

[Finrod]

"Honey, wake up the kids. We're going to Barstow!"

"We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold."

[sparker]

"Honey, wake up the kids. We're going to Barstow!"

"We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold."

Hunter Thompson's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, IIRC. 

[LM117]

Upcoming closures at the I-440/Wade Avenue interchange due to I-440 improvements project.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-08-25-i-440-wade-ave-ramp-closures.aspx

[fillup420]

The expansion of the overall Amtrak network is a definite possibility when/if the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passes.  In North Carolina, it would lead to a significant expansion of intrastate service to Wilmington and Asheville.  I take a look at the proposals, some of the hurdles, and what you can expect along these proposed new passenger rail lines.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/08/exploring-north-carolinas-possible.html

This would be excellent for the state. Im a huge proponent for passenger rail. I wish the government hadn't dropped the requirement for freight companies to offer passenger service. I bet the Amtrak train to asheville would be a big success. Its a popular destination for Charlotte folks, and the train ride itself would be great; going up the Old Fort loops. NS only runs 1 local train over the loops nowadays, so adding Amtrak through there wouldn't be difficult from a traffic standpoint. I also want to see Charlotte to Wilmington service. The ex-SAL line is arrow straight for almost 80 miles across the southern border of NC. Most of the old depots are still standing the their original spots, and some have been kept up or restored. CSX would never share that route though.

I would also love to see faster speeds on the current Charlotte to Raleigh line. I think 80 is the current limit, but I bet that line could handle 110 pretty easily.

[sparker]

The expansion of the overall Amtrak network is a definite possibility when/if the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passes.  In North Carolina, it would lead to a significant expansion of intrastate service to Wilmington and Asheville.  I take a look at the proposals, some of the hurdles, and what you can expect along these proposed new passenger rail lines.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/08/exploring-north-carolinas-possible.html

This would be excellent for the state. Im a huge proponent for passenger rail. I wish the government hadn't dropped the requirement for freight companies to offer passenger service. I bet the Amtrak train to asheville would be a big success. Its a popular destination for Charlotte folks, and the train ride itself would be great; going up the Old Fort loops. NS only runs 1 local train over the loops nowadays, so adding Amtrak through there wouldn't be difficult from a traffic standpoint. I also want to see Charlotte to Wilmington service. The ex-SAL line is arrow straight for almost 80 miles across the southern border of NC. Most of the old depots are still standing the their original spots, and some have been kept up or restored. CSX would never share that route though.

I would also love to see faster speeds on the current Charlotte to Raleigh line. I think 80 is the current limit, but I bet that line could handle 110 pretty easily.

Re the requirement for freight companies to offer passenger service; you're a hair over 50 years too late for that -- that very condition was the catalyst for Amtrak to begin with.  The freight RR's (this was mostly pre-merger) were bleeding money from the late '50's through most of the '60's, and by about 1967 had already cut back their passenger service to the absolute minimum, since this was a substantial component of their red ink.  Amtrak was conceived as a way to preserve several major national passenger-rail corridors; the regional services such as NC's in-state trains were added later, although most coordinated in large part with the national Amtrak for equipment and scheduling -- although funding for these regional lines was state-by-state.  With the various freight RR mergers over the past 50 years, the RR companies are in considerably better fiscal shape than then, but they have zero interest in assuming individual responsibility for passenger service -- and there is no political will from either party to re-impose passenger requirements on them despite nearly constant criticism of Amtrak from both sides of the aisle.  So what is out there is what will likely remain the passenger rail template for the foreseeable future -- although that template is almost always being "tweaked", ostensibly to provide better service (although cutbacks in the '80's and '90's were strictly cost-saving moves).  With attention being paid to transportation these days, Amtrak expansion may be possible in the near-term; but, conversely, if specific services start bleeding funds, from a historical perspective they could wind up on the chopping block years down the line.  If the effects of the present legislative effort are manifested relatively quickly, we'll see where Amtrak is headed soon enough!