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Las Vegas HOV rules to change

Started by roadfro, April 13, 2019, 11:52:09 AM

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mrsman

My view on HOV lanes is that they really should only be used at times when carpooling/transit is most possible.  Even in a city with nightlife like Las Vegas, there is still a traditional rush hour.  So HOV lane restrictions should be limited to rush hours, and in corridors where there is centralized employment.

To the extent that an extra lane creates safety hazards due to additional speeding or weaving or the like, there is always the option of closing the lane during the extreme off-peak.*   In most cities, this would mean (1) HOV restrictions for rush hour, (2) traffic use mid-day, weekends, and nights prior to midnight, and (3) closure of the extra lane during the wee hours (midnight to 5 am).   Times of course could vary based on local circumstances, perhaps in Las Vegas, due to the nighttime economy, wee hours is more like 3 am to 6 am, instead of midnight to 5 am.

The point is that during times when restrictions would cause congestion in the other lanes, outside of the traditional rush hour, the lane should be open to all traffic.  During times when there is excessive capacity and excessive speeding, the lane can close without adverse affect.  In some areas, lane closure is done with electronic red X over the lane, similar to what is done on reversible lane setups.

Here is an example on the Delaware Memorial Bridge.  This bridge is not reversible on a regular basis, but one or more lanes are frequently closed due to construction.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6919485,-75.5291517,3a,75y,119.93h,92.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJnEO53nBozHDMWA1xyIvmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Another example is the old setup along I-66 in Fairfax Co, VA.  Shoulder use is permitted during rush hours only.  I see this as a similar issue, provide extra shoulder and not  a driving lane during times when there is very little traffic.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8751384,-77.2829861,3a,75y,241.98h,96.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfjeQuc9xQh8jtakGLixZ8w!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

* As an aside, I highly doubt that there is an actual safety concern with opening the lane, even in off-peak hours, unless the lane is somehow substandard, like it is narrower than the standard 12 foot.  This is the excuse for the 24 hour HOV lane along US 50 here in MD, to my knowledge the only 24 hour HOV lane in all of the DC area.




djsekani

Quote from: mrsman on July 21, 2019, 03:09:30 PM
My view on HOV lanes is that they really should only be used at times when carpooling/transit is most possible.  Even in a city with nightlife like Las Vegas, there is still a traditional rush hour.  So HOV lane restrictions should be limited to rush hours, and in corridors where there is centralized employment.

Not gonna lie, as I'm in a HOV most of the time I'm driving, I'd be beyond pissed if I had to sit in traffic just because a jam happened outside of rush hour.

I'm no expert on Vegas traffic patterns, but I do know that I-15 especially is prone to congestion pretty much anytime of the day or night, especially during the winter months when tourism is at a peak.

theroadwayone

Quote from: Techknow on April 16, 2019, 07:23:12 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 16, 2019, 04:13:22 PM
Thanks for the correction. I paused when I typed SF Bc I couldn't remember exactly what their rules were like.
For the curious, SF itself has no HOV freeway lanes, I only recall a HOV entrance for Interstate 80 that is 3+ but only on rush hour (3PM to 7:30PM) on Bryant Street and 2nd.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7830424,-122.3937612,3a,51.2y,50.67h,94.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbhmQPFsMrHcbv5kaV1hRhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I think there was one on Sterling Street entering the Bay Bridge, the site of the infamous "Elmo Shirt Guy" video in 2011.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4PTERtmxOE

roadfro

Information on Vegas' HOV enforcement stats after the first full month of issuing citations for violations:

Nevada troopers give out 518 citations for HOV lane violations, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 7/23/19
Quote
Between June 20 and July 20, Nevada Highway Patrol troopers gave out 518 HOV lane violation citations, the department announced Tuesday. The NHP carried out multiple HOV lane saturation enforcement events during that time.
<...>
NHP didn't provide a breakdown of the violations drivers were cited for, which can include driving with less than two occupants, having a vehicle with more than two axles or crossing the solid white lines, among other violations.
And some stats for citations issued specifically in the City of Las Vegas' jurisdiction.
Quote
The Las Vegas City Council has been adamant it would reduce HOV violation citations processed in its court.

The Municipal Court has received 254 HOV violation-related cases since the carpool lane enforcement began on June 20, according to Jace Radke, city spokesman. Of those, eight HOV tickets have been dismissed, 159 are pending disposition, and 87 saw guilty pleas from the cited party, Radke said.
NDOT has been getting some backlash about HOV lanes, especially since there's not currently a strong carpool culture in the Vegas area. But NDOT is hopeful that it will gain more acceptance in the long term.
Quote
Although the HOV lanes were not well-received early on, [NDOT spokesperson Tony] Illia urges motorists to give the department time as it collects and studies data and usage of the lanes.

"Although carpooling is nothing new to the millions of visitors and transplants that now make Southern Nevada home, it's still unfamiliar for many local motorists,"  he said. "As such, a period of gradual driver orientation and acclimation is expected before gaining widespread acceptance. However, we are encouraged by the slow but steady uptick in HOV usership since first being introduced two months ago."
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

jakeroot

Re: 24/7 HOV:

Most of the HOV lanes in WA are in effect from 5am to 7pm, except I-5, which is 24/7. This seriously threw off a few friends we had visit us a couple summers ago from Ohio, who had never heard of such a thing.

In my experience, I-5 handles large amounts of traffic during all times of the day. It's obviously quieter at night, but as a major corridor, it sees more night traffic than most roads.

Because Seattle-area traffic can get really bad, the HOV lanes are great, even during off-peak hours, for when a sudden traffic jam may occur. It is especially helpful for night buses, and their passengers, as they can comfortably sit in the HOV lane at around 68-70mph, without having to get in the way of merging traffic. Normally I'm for KRETP, but as those rules don't apply to HOV lanes, it's easy enough to "undertake" in the #1 lane.

I've also noticed, spending some time in the DMV area, that part-time HOV lanes seem to suffer from serious disobedience issues: a lot of drivers don't seem to use the lanes at all. I can think of numerous occasions in the DC area, driving in some of the part-time HOV lanes, where vehicles were stacked up in the #2 lane, even though the "HOV" lane wasn't in-effect. I've experienced the same phenomenon in the Seattle area, although only at night (as there is no midday off-peak period).

roadfro

NDOT has been listening to some of the complaints from Vegas-area motorists. And while they aren't budging on the 24/7 enforcement (for now), they are reexamining the entry/exit points for the HOV system.

New HOV access points to be added following motorists' complaints, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 12/17/19
Quote
Despite initially saying there would be no changes to the carpool lane system in Las Vegas for three years, state transportation officials are changing course.

The Nevada Department of Transportation announced Tuesday that it will add six new entry/exit locations to the high occupancy vehicle system that stretches from Silverado Ranch Boulevard on Interstate 15 in the south valley to Elkhorn Drive on U.S. Highway 95 in the northwest valley.

Since the 22-mile HOV lanes were completed and new regulations governing them went online June 20, one of the biggest complaints to NDOT has been the number and location of the entry/exit points, according to Kristina Swallow, Transportation Department director.
<...>
The new entry points will be added in the next six to seven months, Swallow said.

I'm glad they've reevaluated this aspect. I'm only in Vegas a few times a year anymore, but my last couple trips down I was able to use the HOV lanes. I've noticed that there is a significant lack of entry/exit points near the Spaghetti Bowl–for example, currently if you're taking the northbound I-15 to US 95 HOV flyover, the first exit you can access is Jones, so you can't legally exit at Rancho, Valley View, or Decatur (about 3 miles). This lack of access results in HOV vehicles with origins/destinations closer to the center of the valley being unable to use the lanes as much as they could. This adjustment should result in a bit more utilization of the lanes. Just disappointing that it's taken this long to figure out, and that it will be several months before it can be fixed.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

US 89

Quote from: roadfro on December 18, 2019, 11:12:14 AM
NDOT has been listening to some of the complaints from Vegas-area motorists. And while they aren't budging on the 24/7 enforcement (for now), they are reexamining the entry/exit points for the HOV system.

New HOV access points to be added following motorists’ complaints, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 12/17/19
Quote
Despite initially saying there would be no changes to the carpool lane system in Las Vegas for three years, state transportation officials are changing course.

The Nevada Department of Transportation announced Tuesday that it will add six new entry/exit locations to the high occupancy vehicle system that stretches from Silverado Ranch Boulevard on Interstate 15 in the south valley to Elkhorn Drive on U.S. Highway 95 in the northwest valley.

Since the 22-mile HOV lanes were completed and new regulations governing them went online June 20, one of the biggest complaints to NDOT has been the number and location of the entry/exit points, according to Kristina Swallow, Transportation Department director.
<...>
The new entry points will be added in the next six to seven months, Swallow said.

I'm glad they've reevaluated this aspect. I'm only in Vegas a few times a year anymore, but my last couple trips down I was able to use the HOV lanes. I've noticed that there is a significant lack of entry/exit points near the Spaghetti Bowl—for example, currently if you're taking the northbound I-15 to US 95 HOV flyover, the first exit you can access is Jones, so you can't legally exit at Rancho, Valley View, or Decatur (about 3 miles). This lack of access results in HOV vehicles with origins/destinations closer to the center of the valley being unable to use the lanes as much as they could. This adjustment should result in a bit more utilization of the lanes. Just disappointing that it's taken this long to figure out, and that it will be several months before it can be fixed.

You mean people actually enter and exit the lane where they're supposed to? I wish we had more of those people in Salt Lake, where the average driver treats the double white line no differently from any other lane line.

roadfro

Quote from: US 89 on December 18, 2019, 12:52:16 PM
You mean people actually enter and exit the lane where they're supposed to? I wish we had more of those people in Salt Lake, where the average driver treats the double white line no differently from any other lane line.

Well, I can't say that everyone obeys the double solid lines... My brother in law crossed them two or three times in one outing with me in the car (I didn't inform him of the law at the time). But generally speaking, there didn't seem to be too much crossing of the double lines–but my observational sample is small and of limited duration.

NDOT was frequently advertising the regulation on DMS displays as well, and I've read that NHP has also been ticketing illegal double line crossings in addition to HOV violations. I do think there is a significant portion of population in the area that hails from SoCal that are used to a similar setup, such that many area transplants are aware of the regulation.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

roadfro

The new HOV access points mentioned in December are due to be installed beginning next week.

Changes coming to HOV lanes in Las Vegas Valley[/ur], Las Vegas Review-Journal, 4/26/2020
Quote
After nearly a year of motorist complaints about the high occupancy lane system that went live in 2019, changes are on the way.

Crews are set to begin restriping the HOV lanes along Interstate 15 and U.S. Highway 95 on May 4, creating additional carpool entrance and exit points, the Nevada Department of Transportation announced Friday.
<...>
The new entry/exit points will be added after the restriping efforts are completed.

A new access point is being added along I-15 northbound, just south of Sahara Avenue, with another between Sahara Avenue and Charleston Boulevard. Meanwhile, I-15 southbound will get another access point, just south of Sahara, with another just south of the 215 Beltway.

U.S. 95 northbound will get another access point between the Spaghetti Bowl interchange and Martin Luther King Boulevard, with two more access points at Craig Road – one for northbound traffic and another for southbound motorists.

All the new access points seem like logical additions (not sure how they were overlooked previously), except one: Uncertain if the article is wrong or information provided to the R-J wasn't clear, since MLK Blvd is part of the Spaghetti Bowl interchange and the HOV flyover from I-15 to US 95 touches down well west of MLK...an access between the interchange/flyover and Rancho Dr or Valley View Blvd would be quite beneficial though.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

don1991

#34
Quote from: Junkie on April 16, 2019, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 13, 2019, 04:36:14 PM
I think they need to take a look at how it goes and see if there is really such a demand for off peak usage. In cities like SF and LA I can understand 24 hour HOV lane enforcement, but Las Vegas doesn't seem like it should be enforced at night.
SF doesn't have 24 hour HOV lanes.

The Bay Bridge has some Bus Only lanes that can be used by carpools during carpool hours, but carpool lanes on freeways (and I believe all other bridge toll plazas) are all peak only AFAIK.

24-hour HOV lanes don't even make sense in So Cal but it has become a political thing (starting with Brown) to refuse to consider change to part-time.  Brown flatly refused a request by Democrat legislators in the 2010s to switch the CA-134 HOV lanes to part-time.  No way our current governor - who is farther Left than Brown - will consider it either.

I'll steer carefully on politics but let me offer my opinion that as Nevada continues its march towards being more of a blue state, I am not surprised to see things like more HOV lanes and even this switch to 24 hour.  Really not necessary though.  Other than the Las Vegas Strip during normal times, roadways and freeways in Las Vegas are not heavily congested outside of rush hours.

don1991

Quote from: roadfro on April 27, 2020, 09:24:16 AM
The new HOV access points mentioned in December are due to be installed beginning next week.

Changes coming to HOV lanes in Las Vegas Valley[/ur], Las Vegas Review-Journal, 4/26/2020
Quote
After nearly a year of motorist complaints about the high occupancy lane system that went live in 2019, changes are on the way.

Crews are set to begin restriping the HOV lanes along Interstate 15 and U.S. Highway 95 on May 4, creating additional carpool entrance and exit points, the Nevada Department of Transportation announced Friday.
<...>
The new entry/exit points will be added after the restriping efforts are completed.

A new access point is being added along I-15 northbound, just south of Sahara Avenue, with another between Sahara Avenue and Charleston Boulevard. Meanwhile, I-15 southbound will get another access point, just south of Sahara, with another just south of the 215 Beltway.

U.S. 95 northbound will get another access point between the Spaghetti Bowl interchange and Martin Luther King Boulevard, with two more access points at Craig Road – one for northbound traffic and another for southbound motorists.

All the new access points seem like logical additions (not sure how they were overlooked previously), except one: Uncertain if the article is wrong or information provided to the R-J wasn't clear, since MLK Blvd is part of the Spaghetti Bowl interchange and the HOV flyover from I-15 to US 95 touches down well west of MLK...an access between the interchange/flyover and Rancho Dr or Valley View Blvd would be quite beneficial though.

I looked at one of the articles showing the signs.  The up arrows on the BGS are interesting but after thinking about it, I much prefer the down arrows.  I've seen few up arrow signs in California but I seem to remember one or two in the HOV lanes on I-5 in and around Santa Ana, where there was a left HOV exit.

roadfro

It's been some time since I've come across any news about Las Vegas's HOV lane rules. Turns out, NDOT is actually doing more research on the matter and changes could be coming as soon as this fall...

Changes to HOV lane restrictions could be on the way, Mick Ackers, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 6/20/2022
Quote
A pilot program with varying hours of HOV lane restrictions could come to Las Vegas Valley freeways as soon as this fall.

Sensors that can detect how many occupants are in a vehicle in HOV lanes that stretch along 22 miles on Interstate 15 and U.S. Highway 95 are set to be installed, according to the Nevada Department of Transportation.

This week, 17 sensors are being installed on various portions of the two highways, which will lead to some overnight lane closures. Once those are in place, the department and engineering firm CA Group, which is leading the study, can track vehicle volume and occupants using the HOV lanes.

The department will be able to accumulate about two and half months' worth of data once the sensors are in place, along with other information that's been collected over the past few years, before they look at recommending changes in August.

"We can get an idea of how many people are actually two-plus in the HOV lanes, how many are violating the HOV rules out there,"  Chad Anson, CA Group partner said June 9 during a presentation at a Regional Transportation Commission board meeting. "We're also looking at a lot of other data available, such as (Freeway and Arterial System of Transportation) data and all the sensors that the FAST system has out there."

The sensors cannot be used for enforcement purposes, Transportation Department spokesman Justin Hopkins said.
<...>
If the data suggests changing the restriction times of the current 24-hour HOV lane regulations – to, say, only during peak rush hours – then those changes will go into effect in late October or early November.

"Through this process we're going to develop what we call the initial concept of operations report,"  Anson said. "That's kind of how we anticipate or recommend the how the HOV system should be operated."

From there, any time changes made will be in place for an 18-month pilot program, to which that data will be reviewed for potential permanent changes to the HOV lane system. During that pilot program modifications to the HOV lanes could be made on a quarterly basis, as data warrants.
<...>
With I-15 seeing higher traffic than U.S. 95, any possible changes to the HOV lane hours will be dictated on the valley's busier freeway. Having different enforcement hours on the two highways would likely be problematic for motorists and law enforcement officials, Anson said.
<...>
Eliminating HOV lanes is not a potential outcome of the pilot project. If it is determined that most motorists using the lanes are doing so without passengers, the department will look to its partners to address that.

"If we find a lot of single occupants in the HOV lanes, we're actually gong to work with our partners, law enforcement, RTC and others to see what the strategies are to encourage carpooling and to discourage single occupancy,"  said department Director Kristina Swallow. "The HOV lanes are actually required as a greenhouse gas mitigation. So, therefore we need to be sure we're working on ensuring they're being used for that purpose."
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

roadfro

BUMP.  NDOT announced today a reduction of HOV enforcement hours from the current 24/7 policy.

New Pilot Hours of Operation for HOV System: HOV lanes to operate between 5 a.m. and 10 p.m. beginning October 24, NDOT Press Release, 10/10/2022
Quote
Today, Nevada Department of Transportation (NDOT) Director Kristina Swallow announced modified high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) hours of operation as part of a pilot program based on preliminary data from a multi-year study in Southern Nevada.  The modified HOV hours will change from 24/7 operation to 5 a.m. to 10 p.m. daily, beginning Monday, October 24, and will be evaluated over a period of 18 months.

Preliminary data collected from the HOV study has confirmed that traffic volumes on I-15 increase rapidly at around 5 a.m. every day of the week and stay consistently high until dissipating between 8 p.m. and 10 p.m. each evening.  Accordingly, NDOT's team of subject-matter experts determined that this data support changing the HOV hours of operation to permit single-occupant vehicles from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m., seven days per week.

The multi-year HOV study utilizes data on traffic volumes, speeds, and HOV violation rates from RTC FAST, NDOT traffic counters, third-party data collection, and new sensors at 15 locations monitored by a third party.  Over the next 18 months, the study team will continue to review the pilot hours of operation and evaluate the collected data, as well as crash rates, to determine if an adjustment to the hours, including potentially reverting back to 24/7 operation, is warranted.  Once the evaluation is complete, the team will provide final recommendations on permanent hours of operation.

"The pilot hours of operation are one way NDOT has worked hard to listen to the public and find ways to improve the HOV lanes in Southern Nevada,"  said NDOT Director Kristina Swallow, "These modified hours are based on data collected from cutting-edge traffic system technology, and we look forward to evaluating the effectiveness of this pilot over the next 18 months."  
<...>

I'm glad they reduced the enforcement times. After having am and pm peak enforcement times on the initial US 95 HOV lanes (ISTR it being 6am-10am & 2pm-7pm, weekdays if not 7 days), going to 24/7 seemed a bit much. Hopefully NDOT will get some good data over the pilot study and fine tune this further. Going back to 24/7 will cause an outcry.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

roadfro

Some additional insights as to the future of Las Vegas HOV in this article announcing the HOV changes from the LVRJ Road Warrior:

24/7 HOV lane regulations set to change this month, Mick Ackers, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 10/10/2022
Quote
<...>
"We found Southern Nevada does not have the typical commuting bump that most communities do,"  Swallow said. "Anyone that's driven in Southern Nevada knows that the traffic at 3 p.m. can be just as bad as traffic at 7 a.m., and our data shows that."

NDOT decided to keep the times the lanes will be open to all users the same on weekdays and weekends to avoid any confusion among motorists.
<...>
A stretch of the carpool lanes on both sides of I-15 between Warm Springs Road and Tropicana Avenue are already open to all motorists due to road work tied to the I-15/Tropicana interchange project. Those will be used as general purpose lanes for over a year, as traffic on the freeway is set to be heavily impacted by the $305 million project.

The 24/7 regulations were instituted in 2019 when Project Neon was completed. That massive yearslong project added HOV lanes on I-15, which connected to those already located on U.S. 95. There are now 22 continuous miles of HOV lanes between the two freeways, stretching from Silverado Ranch on I-15 to Elkhorn on U.S. 95.

Many motorists were irked when the new regulations went live in 2019 because they changed the hours of enforcement. Previously, the regulations were enforced only along U.S. 95 during peak morning and evening traffic hours on weekdays.
<...>
NDOT will continue to monitor the HOV lanes during the pilot study and said it will make any changes that data proves will benefit motorists.

"We're going to get reports roughly every three months on how it's working,"  Swallow said. "If we see a significant degradation in the safety of the network, we will roll it back (to 24/7 regulations). If we see there might be opportunities to adjust further, we may adjust further. But we're working on making sure we're consistent and we're providing a network that meets the goals of the system as a whole."

Part of the pilot study involves the installation of sensors that can detect how many occupants are in a vehicle in the HOV lanes to determine how often they're being used by single occupant vehicles. Those sensors were recently installed but have yet to begin tracking vehicles to collect data for the study.

"The new sensors are still being calibrated to ensure the most accurate count,"  said Justin Hopkins, NDOT spokesman. "Based on previous data collected, we believe an average of around 15 percent of vehicles are not meeting HOV requirements inside those lanes."
<...>

I will be really interested to see what the occupancy data ends up showing. In the few times a year that I'm in Vegas, I see plenty of single occupant violations.

It would also be good to clarify signage for HOV to potentially reduce violations. "Do Not Cross Double White Line" signs should be used to mark the end of every designated entry/exit weave point. And HOV-only ramp entrances should make it abundantly clear about the HOV policies–for example, approaching the US 95 south HOV entrance from Elkhorn Road, it's clear that you're approaching an HOV lane entrance ramp, but not clear that the entrance is to be used only by HOV vehicles...
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Plutonic Panda

Sorry to beat a dead horse but just widen the freeway and add another lane and convert two of the left most lanes back to free express lanes like they were. It worked good for the most part.

Plutonic Panda

Looks like they might go away entirely. I personally hope they are eliminated and ideally the old configuration with the inner two lanes being free to use express lanes brought back.

https://news3lv.com/news/local/ndot-to-discuss-potential-ending-of-hov-lanes

Occidental Tourist

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 10, 2023, 09:46:28 AM
Looks like they might go away entirely. I personally hope they are eliminated and ideally the old configuration with the inner two lanes being free to use express lanes brought back.

https://news3lv.com/news/local/ndot-to-discuss-potential-ending-of-hov-lanes
Every time I roll into Vegas on a weekday afternoon lately, the traffic starts backing up at Russell Road.  Would reinstating the express lanes fix this?  Or is this somehow all related to the Spaghetti Bowl work?

Occidental Tourist

And per an announcement today, they are keeping the HOV lanes but reducing the hours the restrictions are in effect


Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on April 10, 2023, 10:06:07 PM
And per an announcement today, they are keeping the HOV lanes but reducing the hours the restrictions are in effect
Isn't the second time they've reduced effective hours? And I thought the new initiative was from the state legislature?

Occidental Tourist

Don't know.  Looks like NDOT went ahead with commissioning an EIC to eliminate the lanes entirely as an alternative. The hours reduction may be a temporary step on the way to a more permanent solution.

jakeroot

Seems crazy wasteful to build all of those HOV lanes and HOV-specific infrastructure just to get rid of the lanes.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: jakeroot on April 11, 2023, 12:49:36 AM
Seems crazy wasteful to build all of those HOV lanes and HOV-specific infrastructure just to get rid of the lanes.
Not really if they go back to the free to use express lane setup.

Scott5114

It makes sense that HOV lanes don't really seem to work in Southern Nevada. If the casinos there are anything like the ones here, the shifts are staggered around when everyone else is getting to work just because that's the most efficient way to not have shift change fall during peak hours. The day shift at the last one I worked at was 6am to 3pm, for instance. That means that the entire city isn't all commuting at the same time (which would normally be good for congestion, but it means that HOV lanes aren't a very good solution).

Converting the lanes to an express/local setup seems like the most sensible plan of action. 
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jakeroot

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 11, 2023, 01:44:22 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 11, 2023, 12:49:36 AM
Seems crazy wasteful to build all of those HOV lanes and HOV-specific infrastructure just to get rid of the lanes.
Not really if they go back to the free to use express lane setup.

I would support that idea if they instituted some flexi-posts in the the buffer area, like I-95 north of Miami.

roadfro

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2023, 02:48:57 AM
It makes sense that HOV lanes don't really seem to work in Southern Nevada. If the casinos there are anything like the ones here, the shifts are staggered around when everyone else is getting to work just because that's the most efficient way to not have shift change fall during peak hours. The day shift at the last one I worked at was 6am to 3pm, for instance. That means that the entire city isn't all commuting at the same time (which would normally be good for congestion, but it means that HOV lanes aren't a very good solution).

Not everyone in Vegas works in the casinos, you know... That said, the rationale is valid. While there is a considerable population that works "8 to 5" types of jobs, the 24/7 nature of the casinos/hospitality industry in Vegas does result in a larger-than-average number of people employed in jobs working outside those hours. So there is a typical rush hour in Vegas, but that gets prolonged due varying shifts.

Another factor is just how spread out and decentralized Vegas can be. It doesn't make carpooling super efficient.

Quote from: jakeroot on April 11, 2023, 02:50:02 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 11, 2023, 01:44:22 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 11, 2023, 12:49:36 AM
Seems crazy wasteful to build all of those HOV lanes and HOV-specific infrastructure just to get rid of the lanes.
Not really if they go back to the free to use express lane setup.

I would support that idea if they instituted some flexi-posts in the the buffer area, like I-95 north of Miami.

That's what they did before. I-15 was a 3 GP + 2 Express setup, with flexible posts dividing, in both directions from just south of Russell Rd to just south of Sahara Ave. I rather liked this arrangement.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.



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