NC: The proposed I-685

[wdcrft63]

I think it's time to retire North Carolina's title as MIOS (Most Internet Obsessed State). That title belongs to Texas now.

In 2018, Texas was third behind Oregon and New Jersey.  Uh, you did say Internet didn't you?   

Darn. Let's try that again: I think it's time to retire North Carolina's title as MIOS (Most Interstate Obsessed State). That title belongs to Texas now.

[tjcreasy]

If an I-87 extension is pursued,  NC should seek to extend the corridor to the SC state line. I-87 could function in similar fashion to I-81 as a truck bypass of major metro areas. Regional mobility would benefit from a Charlotte and Atlanta bypass 20-30 years from now. An I-87 extension to Sanford is low hanging fruit that should be pursued in the near term.

I also do not see this happening. South Carolina is unable to build I-73 now and the routing would only be a duplicate of that one.

Respectfully, how would an extended I-87 towards Columbia duplicate I-73's routing through SC?

[The Ghostbuster]

There is no guarantee that the southern Interstate 87 will ever be extended beyond Interstate 40 in Raleigh (although if is ever proposed to extend southward along the US 1 corridor, I would have no objections to it doing so). So until such a proposal is ever made, save it for Fictional Highways.

[snowc]

There is no guarantee that the southern Interstate 87 will ever be extended beyond Interstate 40 in Raleigh (although if is ever proposed to extend southward along the US 1 corridor, I would have no objections to it doing so). So until such a proposal is ever made, save it for Fictional Highways.

Just what I was gonna talk about.
Possible I87 could go on the southern beltline, curve to the west and southwest, and then end at Sanford.
Also, Maybe a I387 could go on US 64 near Apex cause they are gonna be working on that soon.
All i got to tell you is, Good Luck with that.

[The Ghostbuster]

Since ASSHTO still hasn't approved Interstate 885 (even though Interstate 885 signs have been erected and covered-up), it may be a long time before proposed Interstate 685 is approved. The DOT might as well start the Interstate 85-to-Interstate 40 upgrades to freeway standards along the US 421 corridor.

[bob7374]

The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/

Comment: They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.

[MATraveler128]

The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/

They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.

Why would there be any reason to extend the planned I-685 to Wilmington when I-40 is already there? Wouldn't it make more sense to widen I-40 between I-95 and Wilmington instead?

[sprjus4]

I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.

If the concern is connecting towns along US-421 to Wilmington or I-95, then improve east-west connections to I-40. But upgrading the entire corridor is a pure waste and should not be considered seriously by any entity.

US-17 and US-74 are far higher priority for upgrades to interstate standards and actually carry high traffic volumes, unlike US-421 which serves as a local route and is already supplemented by an interstate highway.

Capacity is not a concern on I-40, the interstate doesn't have any congestion problems and even if it was, widening the highway to 6 lanes would address that issue. If flooding is a concern on I-40, then raise the highway in problematic areas.

But constructing a new facility altogether takes away any limited funding from other corridors that need it.

The most US-421 needs is passing lanes, improved shoulders, and maybe 4 lanes divided or 5 lanes in certain areas. Fully controlling access with interchanges and overpasses, and having four lanes divided the whole way is absolutely not needed.

Question: wasn't US-421 and US-117 both considered as "alternatives"  when considering where to locate I-40? And then they chose US-117 ultimately?

[LM117]

I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.

If the concern is connecting towns along US-421 to Wilmington or I-95, then improve east-west connections to I-40. But upgrading the entire corridor is a pure waste and should not be considered seriously by any entity.

US-17 and US-74 are far higher priority for upgrades to interstate standards and actually carry high traffic volumes, unlike US-421 which serves as a local route and is already supplemented by an interstate highway.

Capacity is not a concern on I-40, the interstate doesn't have any congestion problems and even if it was, widening the highway to 6 lanes would address that issue. If flooding is a concern on I-40, then raise the highway in problematic areas.

But constructing a new facility altogether takes away any limited funding from other corridors that need it.

The most US-421 needs is passing lanes, improved shoulders, and maybe 4 lanes divided or 5 lanes in certain areas. Fully controlling access with interchanges and overpasses, and having four lanes divided the whole way is absolutely not needed.

Question: wasn't US-421 and US-117 both considered as "alternatives"  when considering where to locate I-40? And then they chose US-117 ultimately?

Agree completely. Just extend I-685 east from Dunn along the general NC-55 corridor and tie it to I-40 near Newton Grove and call it a day.

I also call BS on this piece of the article:

Collaboration on the local, state and federal level has been underway over the last three years, with support from state senators Thom Tillis and Richard Burr.

Only the counties along the corridor lobbied for it a few years ago, to which NCDOT was not responsive until Toyota came into the picture and the senators crammed I-685 into the infrastructure bill at the last second, which was almost certainly a demand from Toyota.

[Dirt Roads]

I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.

I think you mean 50 miles (actually, about 44 miles between I-40 and I-685 at their furthest point).  Not sure where you got the idea that I-40 "easily carries all through traffic".  I-40 is horribly deficient between the I-85 split and NC-210 (which is only 9 miles [north] of I-95).  Plus, the eight-lane I-85/I-40 multiplex between Hillsborough and Greensboro is a complete madhouse all day long (but still carries all through traffic free-flow).

[Dirt Roads]

I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.

If the concern is connecting towns along US-421 to Wilmington or I-95, then improve east-west connections to I-40. But upgrading the entire corridor is a pure waste and should not be considered seriously by any entity.

US-17 and US-74 are far higher priority for upgrades to interstate standards and actually carry high traffic volumes, unlike US-421 which serves as a local route and is already supplemented by an interstate highway.

Capacity is not a concern on I-40, the interstate doesn't have any congestion problems and even if it was, widening the highway to 6 lanes would address that issue. If flooding is a concern on I-40, then raise the highway in problematic areas.

But constructing a new facility altogether takes away any limited funding from other corridors that need it.

The most US-421 needs is passing lanes, improved shoulders, and maybe 4 lanes divided or 5 lanes in certain areas. Fully controlling access with interchanges and overpasses, and having four lanes divided the whole way is absolutely not needed.

Question: wasn't US-421 and US-117 both considered as "alternatives"  when considering where to locate I-40? And then they chose US-117 ultimately?

Agree completely. Just extend I-685 east from Dunn along the general NC-55 corridor and tie it to I-40 near Newton Grove and call it a day.

What's wrong with using I-95 from Dunn to I-40 north of Benson?  At the worst, it will probably be a hair over 10 miles (and might be closer).

[Henry]

While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.

In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.

[MATraveler128]

While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.

In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.

If NCDOT ends up going through with this plan, I-685 would become the new longest 3di which would be almost 200 miles long. I don't know the exact number, but this just seems like pork to me.

[jlam]

This sounds too far-fetched to be a FritzOwl interstate, let alone real life. I-40 is fine.

[sprjus4]

I've often somewhat defended North Carolina's interstate additions, but this is a straight up waste. I-40 parallels the corridor within 10 miles the entire way south of I-95 and easily carries all through traffic.

I think you mean 50 miles (actually, about 44 miles between I-40 and I-685 at their furthest point).  Not sure where you got the idea that I-40 "easily carries all through traffic".  I-40 is horribly deficient between the I-85 split and NC-210 (which is only 9 miles [north] of I-95).  Plus, the eight-lane I-85/I-40 multiplex between Hillsborough and Greensboro is a complete madhouse all day long (but still carries all through traffic free-flow).

I am referring to I-40 south of I-95 to Wilmington.

The proposal in question would extend I-685 along US-421 all the way to Wilmington.

There is merit for I-685 between I-85 at Greensboro and I-95 at Dunn, I will agree. It is not needed in any way south of there.

[LM117]

While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.

In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.

If NCDOT ends up going through with this plan, I-685 would become the new longest 3di which would be almost 200 miles long. I don't know the exact number, but this just seems like pork to me.

I can't see NCDOT going along with this. They didn't really want I-685 in it's current form to begin with.

[wdcrft63]

While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.

In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.

If NCDOT ends up going through with this plan, I-685 would become the new longest 3di which would be almost 200 miles long. I don't know the exact number, but this just seems like pork to me.

I can't see NCDOT going along with this. They didn't really want I-685 in it's current form to begin with.

I don't know what NCDOT "wanted," but I do know that this designation, including the 3di number, came from the U.S. Congress. I-685 will have to compete with other projects for funding. Upgrades to US 421 between I-85  and the Toyota plant site will probably get funding, but the rest of the road may have to wait a long time.

[Dirt Roads]

While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.

In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.

If NCDOT ends up going through with this plan, I-685 would become the new longest 3di which would be almost 200 miles long. I don't know the exact number, but this just seems like pork to me.

I can't see NCDOT going along with this. They didn't really want I-685 in it's current form to begin with.

I don't know what NCDOT "wanted," but I do know that this designation, including the 3di number, came from the U.S. Congress. I-685 will have to compete with other projects for funding. Upgrades to US 421 between I-85  and the Toyota plant site will probably get funding, but the rest of the road may have to wait a long time.

Just sheer speculation on my part, but our local Congressman David Price (D-NC4) has been chair of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development.

[kendallhart808]

At first I was like, maybe they want it to run down NC 87, which I could at least fathom the merit of. But another interstate along US 421 has got to be posturing. I-40 doesn't even need widening south of maybe I-95, let alone some sort of parallel interstate. Plus city of notable size along the route is Clinton, and if they wanted to be connected an I-795 extension along NC 403 or an upgrade of NC 24 would make more sense.

I doubt NCDOT goes along with this either. It may be more so a way to get I-74 to Wilmington as an appeasement, idk.

[74/171FAN]

While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.

In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.

I-476 does serve Allentown and Scranton with the extension.  I think it is a much different situation than I-685 just paralleling I-40 south of I-95.

[Crown Victoria]

While some of NC's additions may be questionable at best (I-73/I-74 is one), this is totally unnecessary. With I-40 close by, the extension really isn't needed. Greensboro to Dunn is fine, but Wilmington is simply doing too much, especially when they're dragging their feet on the US 74 upgrades.

In a similar vein, I-476 was fine when it only served the Philly suburbs, but PA overdid it with the extension to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. You could easily put I-685 in the same category.

I-476 does serve Allentown and Scranton with the extension.  I think it is a much different situation than I-685 just paralleling I-40 south of I-95.

Not only is I-476 much different than I-685, it would have made a decent 2di, as it serves 6 of PA's top 10 most populated municipalities and provides connections for longer-distance traffic via five (almost six) existing 2dis. A certain number found elsewhere in PA comes to mind had I-476 been a 2di itself...

Back to I-685, there is absolutely no reason to send it further east than I-95 unless it would connect to I-40 shortly thereafter, say around Newton Grove. If Wilmington really needs another Interstate, it should be I-74.

[The Ghostbuster]

Even if the proposed Interstate 685 is appoved and built between along US 421 between Greensboro and Dunn or Wilmington (and I'm not sure it should, let alone should the corridor become an Interstate Highway), I would ditch the 685 designation and make it a 2di. Maybe they could give it the Interstate 36 designation, since that number was rejected in favor of the Interstate 42 designation along the US 70 corridor.

[Strider]

The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/

Comment: They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.

Now, this is where I don't agree with extending I-685 all the way to Wilmington. Totally unnecessary. I-685 can end at I-40, that part makes sense. but all the way to Wilmington? Nope. NCDOT isn't going for it. I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

[Dirt Roads]

The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/

Comment: They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.

Now, this is where I don't agree with extending I-685 all the way to Wilmington. Totally unnecessary. I-685 can end at I-40, that part makes sense. but all the way to Wilmington? Nope. NCDOT isn't going for it. I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

It is hard to believe that Roadgeeks are falling for any of this.  I'm sure that WUAMPO is trying to get I-685 to be extended to I-40 somewhere around Newton Grove.  But I'm sure that it makes no financial sense whatsoever, either from the impact to commercial and intermodal traffic, and definitely not from a tourism point-of-view.  At some point, if the widened I-95 can't handle the traffic from I-685 -to- I-40, they will deal with it (and then it might be cheaper to run cross-country from Dunn -to- Newton Grove than to widen I-95 again).

[Strider]

The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/

Comment: They can't get NCDOT to fund upgrading US 74/76 to interstate standards for a Wilmington to Charlotte interstate, yet they now want an interstate that will parallel I-40 for 85 miles.

Now, this is where I don't agree with extending I-685 all the way to Wilmington. Totally unnecessary. I-685 can end at I-40, that part makes sense. but all the way to Wilmington? Nope. NCDOT isn't going for it. I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

It is hard to believe that Roadgeeks are falling for any of this.  I'm sure that WUAMPO is trying to get I-685 to be extended to I-40 somewhere around Newton Grove.  But I'm sure that it makes no financial sense whatsoever, either from the impact to commercial and intermodal traffic, and definitely not from a tourism point-of-view.  At some point, if the widened I-95 can't handle the traffic from I-685 -to- I-40, they will deal with it (and then it might be cheaper to run cross-country from Dunn -to- Newton Grove than to widen I-95 again).

WMPO does not include Newton Grove. WMPO includes Wilmington and surrounding areas. Newton Grove is a part of Mid-Carolina RPO, that's separate agency.