Eisenhower Expressway was I-90 in '77. Why did it change?

[SEWIGuy]

Want to shift traffic away from the crowded center of the city? Remove the tolls from I-294 and put them up through town. The amount of through traffic that HAS to be there will stay. Those looking for the cheaper route will bypass around the suburbs as much as possible.

I know when I drive through Chicago, I've gone straight through every time rather than I-294 unless I was hitting downtown at near rush hour.

I think that will only have a marginal impact.  My feeling is that most people who go through downtown are doing so because they have to go there.  With an IPass, you are only talking about $6.10 in tolls for the entire Tri State Tollway.  I don't think that is enough to deter people to take toll-less routes.

[The Ghostbuster]

If there should be any tolls on 90/94 through Chicago, they should be on the express lanes.

[dzlsabe]

If there should be any tolls on 90/94 through Chicago, they should be on the express lanes.

First, why 90/94, one road, TWO #s? Is it economics? Cheapness? Stupidity?
Tolls? Express lanes? How would THAT be accomplished? I guess we could just I-pass everywhere. Why not just raise the gas tax? Second, WTF does this have anything to do with IKE?

[Stratuscaster]

First, why 90/94?

Because it carries a large amount of traffic between downtown and O'Hare Airport?

Tolls? Express lanes? How would THAT be accomplished? I guess we could just I-pass everywhere.

Yes, tolls. Yes, express lanes. And yes, I-Pass. It's quite efficient.

Why not just raise the gas tax?

Because the politicians wouldn't dream of doing it for fear of the backlash from the people - especially in an election year. (Not that I'm against it - the state gas tax hasn't been increased since 1993.)

Second, WTF does this have anything to do with IKE?

F'n nothing. But it's following the previous discussion.

Here - I'll help get it back on track - why not toll the Ike, too?

[dzlsabe]

First, why 90/94?

Because it carries a large amount of traffic between downtown and O'Hare Airport?

Tolls? Express lanes? How would THAT be accomplished? I guess we could just I-pass everywhere.

Yes, tolls. Yes, express lanes. And yes, I-Pass. It's quite efficient.

Why not just raise the gas tax?

Because the politicians wouldn't dream of doing it for fear of the backlash from the people - especially in an election year. (Not that I'm against it - the state gas tax hasn't been increased since 1993.)

Second, WTF does this have anything to do with IKE?

F'n nothing. But it's following the previous discussion.

Here - I'll help get it back on track - why not toll the Ike, too?

Where is the split between Nside~Sside? Madison? The IKE? The ONLY natural barrier is our beautiful  river, the SanShip Canal. Another bridge is due.

What more do you need to see?

http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/359519/2015-08-26-Chicago-traffic-among-worst-Chicago-Tribune.pdf/5338ec11-819c-4dda-a25e-a24593238775

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf

WWW.greatlakesbasin.net

www.createprogram.org/proj_map2.htm

http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co

We can go N~S, E~W...dont have that NW~SE thing figured just yet.

[ET21]

In b4 hypotenuse mention... Oh wait

[dzlsabe]

Why not just raise the gas tax?

"Because the politicians wouldn't dream of doing it for fear of the backlash from the people - especially in an election year". (Not that I'm against it - the state gas tax hasn't been increased since 1993.)

Actually its the federal fuel tax of 18 cents gas / 24 diesel that has not been increased since 1993. And urban, industrial states dont get back what they "contribute". That needs some review.

ILs fuel tax is really not out of line comparatively. (http://www.illinoisgasprices.com/tax_info.aspx)
It just gets stolen to fund other state budget problems. No doubt that needs review as well.

Spineless legislators need to realize that good, even great roads (and other transport systems) everywhere are what everyone counts on government for and the couple bucks a week for most just dosent matter anymore.

I-Pass shouldnt be more efficient than road use fees collected at the pump.

[The Ghostbuster]

Fine. You go to Congress and lobby to get the gas tax raised. See what kind of reception you get.

[Stratuscaster]

And give those that drive ultra-efficient and gas-less cars a free/reduced cost ride - that seems fair, right?

[I-39]

So dzlsabe, you've been pushing this "hypotenuse tollway" for the last decade or so?



http://chi.streetsblog.org/2013/10/08/metra-and-pace-vote-for-transit-crushing-illiana-tollway-in-advisory-meeting/ (go down to the comments section)

Give it up, it's not happening.

Edited to remove personal information

[ET21]

Lol!

[dzlsabe]

And give those that drive ultra-efficient and gas-less cars a free/reduced cost ride - that seems fair, right?

Who is that directed at/to? Ive certainly never advocated that. The easiest way to charge fuel-less or battery vehicles for road use would be a mileage inspection, but seeing as I-Pass is so fn efficient Ive read, lets just I-Pass everybody, all the time, everywhere??? Is that where we are headed?

[Stratuscaster]

And give those that drive ultra-efficient and gas-less cars a free/reduced cost ride - that seems fair, right?

Is this directed at/to me? Ive never advocated that.

Never said you did.

The easiest way to charge fuel-less or battery vehicles for road use would be a mileage inspection,

Then why not have a mileage inspection for ALL vehicles?

but seeing as I-Pass is so fn efficient Ive read, lets just I-Pass everybody, all the time, everywhere???

Now, did you really read that, or are you simply taking my statement from earlier out of context?

I-Pass is efficient at collecting tolls. Tolls are not a fuel tax or a mileage tax.

And, to paraphrase you, what in the Wide Wide World Of Sports does any of this have to do with the Ike?

[dzlsabe]

Semantics. Tolls/I-Pass, fuel tax, mileage/road use fee? How do we collect the most funds efficiently and distribute them fairly to the projects that need be funded? The FHTF stagecoach gets hijacked in Washington and Springfield, then Cookco and Chicago??Yikes! Guess that makes I-Pass more "efficient"?

OR lets just STARE at this for a few more years...
http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf

And this....http://imgur.com/olL7LcU

Check the maps under "Coo"? Did that area get studied?

[ILRoad55]

Semantics. Tolls/I-Pass, fuel tax, mileage/road use fee?

Your post was too long I didn't bother quoting the entire thing. But seriously please stop repeating the same thing over and over. Just ignore it because there's no easy way for the Eisenhower to get any better. You aren't even really helping this situation.

And your hypotenuse isn't happening either, Crosstown didn't make it. Residents will oppose it because you may be going along some train route or something, but surrounding neighborhoods will be annoyed by traffic in the area, more noise pollution and possible demolition to make more room.

I think the Eisnhower needs to be something like I-64 in St. Louis if it needs the be bigger. 

[ET21]

Don't bother, he's just a broken record. Keeps replaying those same 10 seconds of the song titled "Hypotenuse"

[dzlsabe]

"Your post was too long"? 

"Just ignore it because there's no easy way for the Eisenhower to get any better". Thats the POINT, simply. There is NO "easy" way. We are stuck between the proverbial ROCK (the inability to widen the IKE without major demolition and rail moves) and two hard places. The Strangler and the necessity to maintain the current lanes.

"You aren't even really helping this situation".  Who is? I contend the current Ike EIS is seriously flawed. Hell, the whole scheme is. What if, by some miracle, another lane is crammed in somehow in five or ten years and nothing gets better? Thats a pretty big boner hangin' out there, isn't it IDOT? Kinda happened before with the expansion around Mannheim. Best case is six lanes into four. We know how that works. Just look at Kennedy & Edens.

"And your hypotenuse isn't happening either, Crosstown didn't make it".

Really? Crosstown didn't make it because there was/is a MAJOR problem with the route/direction. The destruction entailed. A question of whether it would have done jack squat. And there was rightly HUGE opposition for those reasons. 

The Hypo proposals are quite different, but unstudied. A clean sheet of paper. No ripping up the IKE, all lanes that are absolutely critical. But its WAY too long and complicated for you, so just ignore it. TL;DR.  "Mom, MAKE me a sandwich!"   

What do YOU see here? I see nothing.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8087536,-87.7727645,19435m/data=!3m1!1e3

"Residents will oppose it because you may be going along some train route or something, but surrounding neighborhoods will be annoyed by traffic in the area, more noise pollution and possible demolition to make more room".

No shit? I fully expect them to. But, there really arent that many "residents", maybe a hundred properties. Its mostly industrial, abandoned, or RR ROW and it would be traffic OVER the area, not in. Perhaps a paid-off house in a nicer neighborhood, not next to a friggin' RR would be enticing? Its a damn $4B+ PPP project probably equivalent to building another Willisears Tower or two. Think another, better- designed Skyway.

"Noise pollution" is pretty much inevitable, another word for it would be "money".
I prefer mine with traffic moving consistently as opposed to....
http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/359519/2015-08-26-Chicago-traffic-among-worst-Chicago-Tribune.pdf/5338ec11-819c-4dda-a25e-a24593238775
.
"I think the Eisnhower needs to be something like I-64 in St. Louis if it needs the be bigger".
Double-deck the IKE? Brilliant. That would annoy...everybody. Good luck gettin' that on the next EIS. STILL wouldnt fix the Strangler.

Ill stick with this http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co

Speaking of broken records, I used to LIKE Blackhawks hockey. 

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe they could build toll lanes elevated over the train tracks, and although the right-of-way is quite narrow, it would be better than trying to expand outward or inward.

[Stratuscaster]

The Hypo proposals are quite different, but unstudied. A clean sheet of paper. No ripping up the IKE, all lanes that are absolutely critical. But its WAY too long and complicated for you, so just ignore it. 

Ill stick with this http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co

So what was the response from IDOT/ISHTA and community leaders to your plan?

You DID send your plan in for them to evaluate it, didn't you?

[dzlsabe]

The Hypo proposals are quite different, but unstudied. A clean sheet of paper. No ripping up the IKE, all lanes that are absolutely critical. But its WAY too long and complicated for you, so just ignore it. 

Ill stick with this http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co

So what was the response from IDOT/ISHTA and community leaders to your plan?

You DID send your plan in for them to evaluate it, didn't you?

Whos "them"?

First, its not really "A" plan...its evolved into several plans over the past few months/years. And its a slippery slope and a pandoras box. Look at any one plan and it begs the question for another. Its got to be cut up into baby bite-sized pieces cuz mention a BILLION around here and eyes roll.

Actually, copies were hand-delivered to all relevant congressmens offices, IDOT, ISTHA, actually discussed at CMAP years ago. Sent to newspapers as well. Not published afaik. Most likely being "evaluated" in folders in file cabinets somewhere, or were "evaluated" and shredded/disposed of long ago. Realize this is the bureaucratic way. Think about it. If you want to keep your job/career, ya SAS dont go rockin' the boat proposing things like this.

Some things that have changed or seen the light of day over the recent past?

The only natural barrier between the north & south side is the river or SanShip. Big bridges over it include Ryan at 16 lanes, 15 miles away, the Tristate 8, Mannheim 6? and ...etc. Would it be too much to "ask" for another  six-lane bridge every oh...FIFTY Years?

Eisenhower widening EIS...
http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf

Whether by chance or design, the "study area" on this EIS has blinders on it, a width of Cermak to North Av, so a comprehensive accounting of alternatives is not possible. See maps on EIS pages 6 and 46. If the north border of the study area is North Av, by rights the south should be in Cicero and 26th say. Numerous areas within the "study area" are not studied, as well as areas just beyond, that surely should. Really no mention of the Strangler and impacts (or lack of) this project would have. One of my favs...page 26 (31) "C11 Other (Assume this would be some other road improvement)...."Deferred to subsequent round". Subsequently seems locked in April 2013. Anything near Cicero Av & I-55??? By all means DO NOT OPEN THAT CAN OF WORMS. Thats ALMOST the south part of the well-studied, old "Crosstown" idea. Bring that up and your CAREER could end. So KISS.

Even IF the Ike was widened to four lanes, is there even a bit of doubt that things might not improve? Ala the Mannheim project. Still remains to be seen if the Byrnecircle flyover will be a success. We know what happens when six lanes squeeze to four, like the Kennedy/Edens.

Then, came the always unpopular around here...
http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/359519/2015-08-26-Chicago-traffic-among-worst-Chicago-Tribune.pdf/5338ec11-819c-4dda-a25e-a24593238775 

Then the rail plans from CREATE, followed by the lunacy of the greatlakesbasin, a 278-mile $8B, Rockford to IN rail bypass plan. Which begs the question...Why not build grade-separation from Westchester to Berwyn on THE existing, 170 year-old IC (now CN) rail ROW from Rockford to Cicero? Cross the "river" and a few miles more to NSX?

The Midcity Transitway, a CTA rail line, initially from Midway to JeffPark is sure to make an appearance sometime, too.

Then COMBINE ALL the plans, and MAYBE theres some clarity? A PPP that might get some traction and get ALL this shit built? For less than $8B?. I dont know. Sure should be thoroughly STUDIED anyway.

[dzlsabe]

Three $200M bridges, one over the Strangler, over SanShip, over Ryan. That would be a good start.

What? I see nothing. Exactly.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8087536,-87.7727645,19435m/data=!3m1!1e3

[dzlsabe]

Maybe they could build toll lanes elevated over the train tracks, and although the right-of-way is quite narrow, it would be better than trying to expand outward or inward.

Brilliant.

[hotdogPi]

Maybe they could build toll lanes elevated over the train tracks, and although the right-of-way is quite narrow, it would be better than trying to expand outward or inward.

Brilliant.

You just posted in a thread where the two most recent posts were both you two months ago, without any new information.

[hobsini2]

First, why 90/94?

Because it carries a large amount of traffic between downtown and O'Hare Airport?

Tolls? Express lanes? How would THAT be accomplished? I guess we could just I-pass everywhere.

Yes, tolls. Yes, express lanes. And yes, I-Pass. It's quite efficient.

Why not just raise the gas tax?

Because the politicians wouldn't dream of doing it for fear of the backlash from the people - especially in an election year. (Not that I'm against it - the state gas tax hasn't been increased since 1993.)

Second, WTF does this have anything to do with IKE?

F'n nothing. But it's following the previous discussion.

Here - I'll help get it back on track - why not toll the Ike, too?

Where is the split between Nside~Sside? Madison? The IKE? The ONLY natural barrier is our beautiful  river, the SanShip Canal. Another bridge is due.

What more do you need to see?

http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/359519/2015-08-26-Chicago-traffic-among-worst-Chicago-Tribune.pdf/5338ec11-819c-4dda-a25e-a24593238775

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf

WWW.greatlakesbasin.net

www.createprogram.org/proj_map2.htm

http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co

We can go N~S, E~W...dont have that NW~SE thing figured just yet.

The postal split is Madison. The realistic split IS the Eisenhower Expy/Congress Pkwy.

As for a way to relieve traffic on the Ike and Kennedy, we could always double deck them like the I-880 freeway in Oakland but that would be very expensive. That's still more reasonable than your "hypo" route.

[dzlsabe]

"The postal split is Madison. The realistic split IS the Eisenhower Expy/Congress Pkwy."

The natural split is the river or SanShip Canal.

"As for a way to relieve traffic on the Ike and Kennedy, we could always double deck them like the I-880 freeway in Oakland but that would be very expensive."

No, you could not ALWAYS. And yes, THAT would be VERY expensive. The way to "fix" something is to relieve pressure on it, then repair it. Double-decking anything would be like trying to repair a nuclear reactor while at full power, or fixing your faucet with the water on....its MUCH more difficult.

"That's still more reasonable than your "hypo" route."

No it isnt. Certainly thats the mantra around here. Obviously me and Pythagoras disagree. Ill continue to push for a study that shows the map does not lie and MAYBE its not that unreasonable after all. Shorten I-90 ten miles and give its own road? TWO complete tollways through Chicago and Cookco? A new rail BYPASS...THROUGH the city?  $4B financed by multiple agencies and RRs (PPP).I think we are worthy.  http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co Do this and maybe the Ike and Kennedy would be fine, the Strangler unstrangled.