End of the Horizontal Light [WI]

[twinsfan87]

From those standards it looks like WisDOT is going to be installing signals on the mast arm pole which would be a far right signal (currently they use a near right signal instead)... am I reading that right? If so, I could live with the near right pole-mounted signal being optional. If not, it would be a sad development. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing the doghouse (not that I really have a problem with the 5 section tower either).

[DaBigE]

From those standards it looks like WisDOT is going to be installing signals on the mast arm pole which would be a far right signal (currently they use a near right signal instead)... am I reading that right?

Yes and no.  The older SDD's depict them as well: http://roadwaystandards.dot.wi.gov/standards/fdm/SDD/09e01.pdf.  The SDD's depict the maximum loading for the pole assembly.  As you look down the drawings, more signals and signs are depicted as the poles get longer.  Currently, the max monotube pole is 55-ft long, but I've heard that 65 and 70-ft+ arms are in the works.  This: http://roadwaystandards.dot.wi.gov/standards/fdm/SDD/09c12.pdf is the base for the 55' arm; one can only imagine what the longer monotubes will require.

I'll try and grab some photos in the next couple days, of a recently completed project near me, which was a combination WisDOT (ramps)/municipal project.  WisDOT, of course, used their new standards, which get refined a bit more each year, and the municipality mounted their signals vertically on a traditional trombone arm.   WisDOT is also apparently experimenting with some new signal lenses.  Instead of the usual "flat" LED lens, they are domed, almost to the edge of the visors.  They are also spec'ing a different style of pedestrian signal.  In addition to including countdowns, they have egg-crate style visors instead of the U-shaped ones of old.
Post Merge: March 16, 2012, 05:52:43 AM

This is pretty disappointing.  The WI traffic lights are/were my favorite installations in the nation aside from the standard curved mast arms in CA, AZ and UT.

Yet another good, unique thing in the world bites the dust in favor of mindless uniformity... -sigh-

You missed some of the old arms Madison used: http://g.co/maps/xfbzk, http://g.co/maps/4gp5n; the "best" of both worlds.  There still are a handful left around the city, but the majority of them were replaced within the past ten years, in favor of the trombone arms.

The light assemblies actually haven't changed as far as setups are concerned - one right at stop line on right (and left if median), one on left side of road/median and the mast arm from the right side.  The only difference is the mast arm is Illinois styled with 1 vertical light per lane.

For multiple lane protected lefts, I've also seen masts from the median going the opposing way with one vertical light per left turn lane.

E Washington Ave around the East Towne Mall in Mad-town will be getting these assemblies as well.

Construction begins Monday!    http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/swregion/eastwash/index.htm

[SSOWorld]

Also, per another discussion I had with the State signal engineer, the near-right (stopbar) signal pole will eventually become optional.  Another revolution, is that the doghouse style signal is rumored to be fair-game as well sometime in the near future.

Doghouse signals? Oh no.

I'll try and grab some photos in the next couple days, of a recently completed project near me, which was a combination WisDOT (ramps)/municipal project.  WisDOT, of course, used their new standards, which get refined a bit more each year, and the municipality mounted their signals vertically on a traditional trombone arm.   WisDOT is also apparently experimenting with some new signal lenses.  Instead of the usual "flat" LED lens, they are domed, almost to the edge of the visors.  They are also spec'ing a different style of pedestrian signal.  In addition to including countdowns, they have egg-crate style visors instead of the U-shaped ones of old.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/sets/72157628597018357/from some recent excursions.

[DaBigE]

Photos as promised; all of the following photos are from Main St (Business 151) in Sun Prairie, from the ramps at US 151 east to Walker Way.  WisDOT/Dane County maintains the signals at the ramp terminals, while Sun Prairie (and their contractor), maintain the rest.

First up, the intersection at Walker Way.  Up until 2011, this was the standard for the city of Sun Prairie, similar to other municipalities in Wisconsin:




The next intersection, Main St and O'Keeffe Ave was reconstructed within the past year, at the same time the Main St ramps with US 151 were reconstructed.  For the time being, vertically-mounted signals on trombone arms are the new Sun Prairie standard:




Close-up of the mounting:


Lastly, the WisDOT design standards, at the ramp terminals with US 151:




WisDOT is apparently still using up older stock of LED modules.  Note the different lens on the amber signal below; it has the WisDOT first-gen dot matrix appearance, whereas the newer ones are the 'incandescent-look' LED lens.  There are a mix of old and new LED modules at these ramp terminals.  Not all are amber, most are green, and a couple red's.


The new "bubble-lens" (assuming it's to prevent snow build-up); only found on monotube-mounted signals.  Note that not all of the signal assemblies have these for some reason (missing in the middle assembly):


The new, standard egg-crate visor pedestrian signals:


EDIT: Photos relinked

[Milwaukee, WY]

I wonder why they don't route the wire through the astro-brac and into the mast arm instead of using a length of wire going into a hole drilled into the bottom.  I've noticed that on all the installations around here in Milwaukee as well.  Interestingly, it appears that Milwaukee County has adopted the new design standard for their signal replacements, as they've been installed on a few recent projects on county roads.  Their installations differ a bit, as they've been using one 5 section signal head for the left turn lane as well as the leftmost through lane, and they tend to mount it over the turn lane, but this isn't consistent either.  Milwaukee County also uses LFE and McCain signal heads, whereas the state DOT uses what? Crouse-Hinds?

[DaBigE]

I wonder why they don't route the wire through the astro-brac and into the mast arm instead of using a length of wire going into a hole drilled into the bottom.  I've noticed that on all the installations around here in Milwaukee as well.

I've wondered the same thing.  The city of Madison has also adopted WisDOT's routing as well.  To me, it just looks sloppy, but they must have a good reason for doing it.

As for the brand?  I'm not quite sure.  I think the older ones were either Eagle (now part of Siemens) or Econolite.  Crouse-Hinds was bought (eventually) by Peek Traffic Corporation, but I don't think WisDOT uses them, as the design does not look the same.  Unfortunately, WisDOT doesn't list any signal manufacturers on their approved products listing.

[GeekJedi]

I wonder why they don't route the wire through the astro-brac and into the mast arm instead of using a length of wire going into a hole drilled into the bottom.  I've noticed that on all the installations around here in Milwaukee as well.  Interestingly, it appears that Milwaukee County has adopted the new design standard for their signal replacements, as they've been installed on a few recent projects on county roads.  Their installations differ a bit, as they've been using one 5 section signal head for the left turn lane as well as the leftmost through lane, and they tend to mount it over the turn lane, but this isn't consistent either.  Milwaukee County also uses LFE and McCain signal heads, whereas the state DOT uses what? Crouse-Hinds?

It may be to prevent corrosion.  With the loop design, there's no way for water to seep into the interior of the tube.  At least that's my theory.

[Milwaukee, WY]

Also, per another discussion I had with the State signal engineer, the near-right (stopbar) signal pole will eventually become optional.  

This must already be in place.  The city of Glendale just this week finished a new signal installation on North Port Washington Rd. between Hampton and Silver Spring.  (Right in front of Kopps Frozen Custard) The signal is the new standard, with vertically mounted signals on a monotube pole.  Interestingly, there are no near-right corner signals.  The only near side signal head is for a PPLT for southbound traffic tuning left to go east.  Pictures will be forthcoming.

[DaBigE]

Interestingly, there are no near-right corner signals.  The only near side signal head is for a PPLT for southbound traffic tuning left to go east.  Pictures will be forthcoming.

That's interesting.  Even on the latest, completely new signal installations I've seen, they've all included the near-right signal.  Either news is traveling slowly, or few want to break tradition/Wisconsin driver expectation (my money would be the on the latter).

[Jordanah1]

i could be wrong, so it would be nice if someone would check, but i believe that when i was last in green bay and used the lombardi st interchange, the new traffic lights for westbound lombardi at the southbound US41 on/off ramp were mounted horizontaly. these were still covered as the temporary lights were still being used however. i believe there was one light for each lane aswell.

[mgk920]

i could be wrong, so it would be nice if someone would check, but i believe that when i was last in green bay and used the lombardi st interchange, the new traffic lights for westbound lombardi at the southbound US41 on/off ramp were mounted horizontaly. these were still covered as the temporary lights were still being used however. i believe there was one light for each lane aswell.

That's a long-standing City of Green Bay standard.

Mike

[SSOWorld]

Though the Lombardi/Oneida intersection has one of the new light masts. (you mind it going south on Oneida.

[on_wisconsin]

E Washington Ave around the East Towne Mall in Mad-town will be getting these assemblies as well.

The first signals popped up last week:

[DaBigE]

E Washington Ave around the East Towne Mall in Mad-town will be getting these assemblies as well.

The first signals popped up last week

Not to nit-pick, but they've actually been up for the better part of a month already. They were turned on when traffic was switched to the new pavement in mid-July.

On a similar note, Sun Prairie just turned on the lights at the Triumph Dr/CTH C (Grand Ave) intersection by the new Woodmans. The signals over CTH C/Grand Ave are on monotubes similar to Madison's (Sun Prairie's are power-coated black), but the signals over Triumph are mounted horizontally on traditional trombone arms. It's also Sun Prairie's first intersection to sport the flashing yellow arrow.

[SSOWorld]

Seems this unusual signal may be signaling the end of trombone horizontals altogether?  I hope not.  This is likely a design picked by the city (Platteville), but I have to look at the specifications to see.

(Click on image to go to its Flickr page)

[tchafe1978]

That must have just gone up, it wasn't up yet when I was in town just last week. Sure is a different looking design, in contrast with the traditional WIsconsin-style signals that were put in just a few years ago one block over at Water St. and Pine St. It'll be nice to have that whole Water St./WI 80 project done.

[DaBigE]

Seems this unusual signal may be signaling the end of trombone horizontals altogether?  I hope not.  This is likely a design picked by the city (Platteville), but I have to look at the specifications to see.

From the way I was told, horizontal trombones will no longer be installed with new WisDOT construction. If a trombone is installed as part of a WisDOT project, the lights will be mounted vertically. Locals are apparently free to choose whatever they like better. A new signal that went up along Main St in West Bend within the last year or so were horizontally mounted. A new signal just installed this summer next to the new Woodman's in Sun Prairie has both horizontally mounted trombones (facing the side street) and vertically mounted on monotubes (lighter-duty monotubes than WisDOT spec's).

[SSOWorld]

That must have just gone up, it wasn't up yet when I was in town just last week. Sure is a different looking design, in contrast with the traditional WIsconsin-style signals that were put in just a few years ago one block over at Water St. and Pine St. It'll be nice to have that whole Water St./WI 80 project done.

Yea that was installed by Friday last week. (I keep a tab on it since I could pass by it every day if I wanted to - with Platteville being where I live )

Seems this unusual signal may be signaling the end of trombone horizontals altogether?  I hope not.  This is likely a design picked by the city (Platteville), but I have to look at the specifications to see.

From the way I was told, horizontal trombones will no longer be installed with new WisDOT construction. If a trombone is installed as part of a WisDOT project, the lights will be mounted vertically. Locals are apparently free to choose whatever they like better. A new signal that went up along Main St in West Bend within the last year or so were horizontally mounted. A new signal just installed this summer next to the new Woodman's in Sun Prairie has both horizontally mounted trombones (facing the side street) and vertically mounted on monotubes (lighter-duty monotubes than WisDOT spec's).

Then this is Platteville's design gathering from that - It's going to be "one of a kind" in the city (for now at least).  It's unfortunate that Wisconsin had to bow down to the wishes of the MUTCD.

[on_wisconsin]

Looks a bit European. IMHO

[Mdcastle]

If the head on the right side is now optional, than that's a big step backwards in my view. In my Minnesota-centric view, there should be mast arms only, and a signal head on either side, plus one overhead head for each lane, and at least two roadway lights...   

[SSOWorld]

Its an intersection of two 2-lane 2-way traffic streets.  Most 2 lane streets only have one overhead - even outside Wisconsin.

[DaBigE]

If the head on the right side is now optional, than that's a big step backwards in my view. In my Minnesota-centric view, there should be mast arms only, and a signal head on either side, plus one overhead head for each lane, and at least two roadway lights...

The near-side right is now optional in Wisconsin, however, many designers still include them when drawing up the signal layout...either by habit or preference. Making this one optional was to alleviate the problem that occasionally creeps up where a near-side right is darn near impossible to properly place, (read: a spot with proper off-sets). The WisDOT ramp signal photos I posted in post #28 are pretty typical of the latest (WisDOT) signal designs.

From what I've seen so far (which admittedly is only a small portion of the state), with a couple exceptions (West Bend, I am looking at you), most municipalities are following WisDOT's new designs, except with lighter-duty monotube mounts. On my way home from work the other day, I noticed that the monotubes for a new intersection signal were delivered to the Costco site in Sun Prairie. Looks like that intersection will have monotubes all around, unlike the intersection by Woodmans I mentioned in an earlier post. I hope to have some time in the near future to grab some photos...sun's been setting too quickly lately/getting out of work too late to take 'em most days.

[DaBigE]

Finally had some time to grab some photos in Sun Prairie.

First up, is the intersection with signals mounted both horizontally in trombone arms and vertically on monotubes. Interestingly, they're all reverse-arm mounted from the median.





Lastly, the latest signalized intersection in the city of Sun Prairie, which uses just monotubes and will be the 2nd in the city to feature the flashing yellow arrow. Interestingly, the monotube signals with the attached street light appear use the same pole specs as WisDOT (overlooking the black powder-coating); the other two appear to be the lighter-duty monotubes common to Madison's latest installations. These were just erected within the last two days.

 

[Scott5114]

Then this is Platteville's design gathering from that - It's going to be "one of a kind" in the city (for now at least).  It's unfortunate that Wisconsin had to bow down to the wishes of the MUTCD.

What's this got to do with the MUTCD? It still allows vertical or horizontal placement.

[SSOWorld]

Then this is Platteville's design gathering from that - It's going to be "one of a kind" in the city (for now at least).  It's unfortunate that Wisconsin had to bow down to the wishes of the MUTCD.

What's this got to do with the MUTCD? It still allows vertical or horizontal placement.

oh right...  at least it's art deco - sort of...