PA Turnpike Ratings for Freeway Junctions

[Beltway]

Other than US-202 there were no other 4-lane roads serving the Chesterbrook area, and none planned.  Just 2-lane roads, mostly secondary.  So planners were not at all excited about thousands of new homes being built.

US 202 in this area was widened to 6 lanes (long overdue) a while back.  While not a limited-access highway, PA 252 along (W. Swedesford & Bear Hill Roads) is 4-lanes south of 202 to the Hilltop Rd. intersection.

PA-252 is not 4 lanes all the way down to Paoli.  It is 2 lanes north of US-202, of course Valley Forge park effectively makes it impossible to expand PA-252 to 4 lanes.

Where did I say that PA 252 was 4 lanes all the way down to Paoli?  It's 4-lanes south of 202 to Hilltop Rd., which is just south of where a set of railroad tracks cross under the roadway. From there to Paoli (US 30) it ranges from 2 to 4 lanes (the 3rd lane being a southbound passing lane & the 4th lane being a northbound turning lane in some areas).

As I said a Turnpike interchange positioned to serve Chesterbrook would be a major improvement for traffic access and relief.

And I agree with you.  I only commented on your stating that the only other roads in the area were only 2-laners.

Well, checking the Google Maps link, it looks like my statement was not -precisely- true, but the 0.6 mile or so of PA-252 from US-202 southward, was not 4 lanes in the 1970s.

In the 1970s --
Neither Cassatt Road nor its interchange with US-202 existed.
The US-202 westerly ramps with West Swedesford Road were graded when the highway was built in the late 1960s but were unbuilt until sometime later, probably in the 1980s.

So about 1/2 mile of PA-252 was 4 lanes from the railroad to West Swedesford Road, but did not connect into any other 4 lane roads.

I moved to Virginia in 1977 so that limited my future knowledge of the area somewhat.

[Beltway]

I'm sure that the designers 30 years ago didn't plan on using I-476 north to bypass King of Prussia to get to the Turnpike west of Valley Forge.

Agreed, and as with several other traffic pinches in Pennsylvania, the situation today would like be quite different if other planned routes (King of Prussia spur from I-476) had been constructed.

Actually, such was known as the Radnor Spur and it was basically a southeasterly extension of US 422 to I-476.

A mini version of that was built about 10 years ago to connect southbound US-422 to eastbound I-76.  Will they ever build a northbound version of that?  It would be a big help in bypassing US-202.

I will grant that with the railroad bridge over I-76, that it would take a fairly long and high flyover bridge to pass over I-76 and the railroad.

[MASTERNC]

A mini version of that was built about 10 years ago to connect southbound US-422 to eastbound I-76.  Will they ever build a northbound version of that?  It would be a big help in bypassing US-202.

I will grant that with the railroad bridge over I-76, that it would take a fairly long and high flyover bridge to pass over I-76 and the railroad.

Probably won't be done, which is a shame given the number of truck rollover accidents they've had on the tight loop ramps from I-76 WB to US 202 or US 422.

They should also widen the ramp to US 422 from I-76/US 202 SB to two lanes.  That is a major bottleneck, even on weekends.

[qguy]

A mini version of that was built about 10 years ago to connect southbound US-422 to eastbound I-76.  Will they ever build a northbound version of that?  It would be a big help in bypassing US-202.

I will grant that with the railroad bridge over I-76, that it would take a fairly long and high flyover bridge to pass over I-76 and the railroad.

Probably won't be done, which is a shame given the number of truck rollover accidents they've had on the tight loop ramps from I-76 WB to US 202 or US 422.

They should also widen the ramp to US 422 from I-76/US 202 SB to two lanes.  That is a major bottleneck, even on weekends.

I worked at the nearby PennDOT District 8-0 office when this complex was completed. It was a HUGE improvement over the previous configuration and traffic conditions, but that ramp was congested from Day 1.

[Beltway]

A mini version of that was built about 10 years ago to connect southbound US-422 to eastbound I-76.  Will they ever build a northbound version of that?  It would be a big help in bypassing US-202.

I will grant that with the railroad bridge over I-76, that it would take a fairly long and high flyover bridge to pass over I-76 and the railroad.

Probably won't be done, which is a shame given the number of truck rollover accidents they've had on the tight loop ramps from I-76 WB to US 202 or US 422.

They should also widen the ramp to US 422 from I-76/US 202 SB to two lanes.  That is a major bottleneck, even on weekends.

I worked at the nearby PennDOT District 8-0 office when this complex was completed. It was a HUGE improvement over the previous configuration and traffic conditions, but that ramp was congested from Day 1.

PennDOT District 6-0 office?

The upgrade was a major improvement, but traffic from westbound I-76 to westbound US-422 still has to use a segment of US-202.  A direct ramp could bypass that.

[PHLBOS]

The upgrade was a major improvement, but traffic from westbound I-76 to westbound US-422 still has to use a segment of US-202.  A direct ramp could bypass that.

Actually, the current configuration, while parallel to southbound 202, is indeed a separate ramp for both westbound 422 & Swedesford Road.  It's not a collector-distributor road that feeds back onto the mainline 202.

While it's an improvement over what was there before (when the I-76 & US 422 interchanges were completely separate from one another); I do agree that the on-ramp to US 422 westbound should've been constructed with 2 lanes rather than one.

One way to bypass this bottleneck (if one's already approaching the interchange along I-76 westbound) would be to use 202 South to PA 252 North (Valley Forge Road), reverse direction & use 202 northbound as a means to get in US 422 westbound.

[qguy]

A mini version of that was built about 10 years ago to connect southbound US-422 to eastbound I-76.  Will they ever build a northbound version of that?  It would be a big help in bypassing US-202.

I will grant that with the railroad bridge over I-76, that it would take a fairly long and high flyover bridge to pass over I-76 and the railroad.

Probably won't be done, which is a shame given the number of truck rollover accidents they've had on the tight loop ramps from I-76 WB to US 202 or US 422.

They should also widen the ramp to US 422 from I-76/US 202 SB to two lanes.  That is a major bottleneck, even on weekends.

I worked at the nearby PennDOT District 8-0 office when this complex was completed. It was a HUGE improvement over the previous configuration and traffic conditions, but that ramp was congested from Day 1.

PennDOT District 6-0 office?

Yup, 6-0. (Brain-freeze.)

[Beltway]

The upgrade was a major improvement, but traffic from westbound I-76 to westbound US-422 still has to use a segment of US-202.  A direct ramp could bypass that.

Actually, the current configuration, while parallel to southbound 202, is indeed a separate ramp for both westbound 422 & Swedesford Road.  It's not a collector-distributor road that feeds back onto the mainline 202.

While it's an improvement over what was there before (when the I-76 & US 422 interchanges were completely separate from one another); I do agree that the on-ramp to US 422 westbound should've been constructed with 2 lanes rather than one.

Yes, I realize that effectively there is at least one lane of ramp connection from WB I-76 to WB US-422.  But it has to pass thru a loop ramp exiting WB I-76.  Unlike the reverse movement it is not high capacity and is not high speed.  I will grant that there may not be enough space to add a second lane, considering the adjacent development.

My proposal might not have adequate space available either, and there is the issue of how to tie it into US-422, it might require a flyover bridge 1,500 to 2,000 feet long.

Expensive any way you look at it.

[Beltway]

I worked at the nearby PennDOT District 8-0 office when this complex was completed. It was a HUGE improvement over the previous configuration and traffic conditions, but that ramp was congested from Day 1.

PennDOT District 6-0 office?

Yup, 6-0. (Brain-freeze.)

No big deal ... I worked there 1974-1977.  :-) 

Back then it was in Radnor on North Radnor-Chester Road.  I wonder if that building next to the TD Bank is the original building.

[qguy]

I worked at the nearby PennDOT District 8-0 office when this complex was completed. It was a HUGE improvement over the previous configuration and traffic conditions, but that ramp was congested from Day 1.

PennDOT District 6-0 office?

Yup, 6-0. (Brain-freeze.)

No big deal ... I worked there 1974-1977.  :-) 

Back then it was in Radnor on North Radnor-Chester Road.  I wonder if that building next to the TD Bank is the original building.

Didn't know that; how'd I miss it?

Have you been to the district office since they moved to King of Prussia? Envious employees in other districts call it the "glass palace." There are some dramatic meeting rooms on each floor at the narrow ends of the diamond-shaped building, particularly on the upper floors with expansive views. One downside–the interior gut-renovation must have been designed by a bunch of men only, because (of course) there are absolutely no closets! No coat closets, no storage space except the basement. Nothing.

**We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.**

[briantroutman]

One downside–the interior gut-renovation must have been designed by a bunch of men only, because (of course) there are absolutely no closets! No coat closets, no storage space except the basement. Nothing.

I'm a man, and I highly value closet space.

[Rothman]

Workers are envious of meeting rooms with views?  Pfft.  A decent restaurant would be a true matter of jealousy.

[Beltway]

I worked at the nearby PennDOT District 8-0 office when this complex was completed. It was a HUGE improvement over the previous configuration and traffic conditions, but that ramp was congested from Day 1.

PennDOT District 6-0 office?

Yup, 6-0. (Brain-freeze.)

No big deal ... I worked there 1974-1977.  :-) 

Back then it was in Radnor on North Radnor-Chester Road.  I wonder if that building next to the TD Bank is the original building.

Didn't know that; how'd I miss it?

Have you been to the district office since they moved to King of Prussia? Envious employees in other districts call it the "glass palace." There are some dramatic meeting rooms on each floor at the narrow ends of the diamond-shaped building, particularly on the upper floors with expansive views. One downside– the interior gut-renovation must have been designed by a bunch of men only, because (of course) there are absolutely no closets! No coat closets, no storage space except the basement. Nothing.

I have driven by it but have not been inside the building.  Ever since at least 9/11 nearly any major office building will have security restricted access.  Not like in the old days when you could just walk in.

I surmise that other districts always have had issues with 6-0.

Back when I worked for PennDOT in the 1970s, I heard a PennDOT anecdote from one of their maintenance engineers.  There was a statewide meeting of PennDOT maintenance engineers in Harrisburg, and there was a forum where different ones could speak and discuss their local problems.  One of the St. Davids District 6-0 (Philadelphia and the four surrounding counties) engineers was speaking, and a loud voice interrupted him, someone from western Pennsylvania, and said, "As far as I'm concerned, we ought to build a fence around District 6-0, and give the whole damn thing to New Jersey!"  This is a true story, and I think it showed the attitude toward Philadelphia that existed in other parts of the state. 

Has it changed since then?  Would New Jersey have taken the offer?

[briantroutman]

One of the St. Davids District 6-0 (Philadelphia and the four surrounding counties) engineers was speaking, and a loud voice interrupted him, someone from western Pennsylvania, and said, "As far as I'm concerned, we ought to build a fence around District 6-0, and give the whole damn thing to New Jersey!"  This is a true story, and I think it showed the attitude toward Philadelphia that existed in other parts of the state.

I don't take that as anything more than an expression of the petty frustrations of someone irritated by a discussion that was irrelevant to him personally.

Now as to the issue of intrastate infighting in general, here's what I've observed from various Pennsylvanians: (their sentiments, not mine)

- Philadelphia city dwellers think their dreams of a world-class transit-oriented nirvana are being shackled by concessions made to car-dependent suburbanites

- More broadly, people in greater Philadelphia (city and suburbs) believe they're carrying the dead weight of roughly 60 worthless, dying counties

- Outside the Philadelphia metro but within about 100 miles (Harrisburg, Reading, Allentown) attitudes toward Philadelphia aren't entirely negative, as personal and professional ties to the Philadelphia area abound, but there's a general sense that tax dollars are being siphoned to pay for transit and "Philly graft"

- Among many rural Pennsylvanians, Philadelphia is generally despised as a black hole that sucks up their hard-earned tax dollars and doesn't share their values

- I haven't encountered nearly as many anti-Philadelphia attitudes in Pittsburgh–except in a superficial sports rivalry sense...or perhaps out of concern that Pittsburgh is slightly behind Philadelphia in terms of revitalization and growth, and Harrisburg isn't doing enough to help

[Beltway]

One of the St. Davids District 6-0 (Philadelphia and the four surrounding counties) engineers was speaking, and a loud voice interrupted him, someone from western Pennsylvania, and said, "As far as I'm concerned, we ought to build a fence around District 6-0, and give the whole damn thing to New Jersey!"  This is a true story, and I think it showed the attitude toward Philadelphia that existed in other parts of the state.

I don't take that as anything more than an expression of the petty frustrations of someone irritated by a discussion that was irrelevant to him personally.

I  heard a number of statements at 6-0 regarding resentments from other parts of the state, regarding perceived funding inequities.

Now as to the issue of intrastate infighting in general, here's what I've observed from various Pennsylvanians: (their sentiments, not mine)

- Philadelphia city dwellers think their dreams of a world-class transit-oriented nirvana are being shackled by concessions made to car-dependent suburbanites

- More broadly, people in greater Philadelphia (city and suburbs) believe they're carrying the dead weight of roughly 60 worthless, dying counties

- Outside the Philadelphia metro but within about 100 miles (Harrisburg, Reading, Allentown) attitudes toward Philadelphia aren't entirely negative, as personal and professional ties to the Philadelphia area abound, but there's a general sense that tax dollars are being siphoned to pay for transit and "Philly graft"

- Among many rural Pennsylvanians, Philadelphia is generally despised as a black hole that sucks up their hard-earned tax dollars and doesn't share their values

I would say that the above quote is a pretty accurate summation.

- I haven't encountered nearly as many anti-Philadelphia attitudes in Pittsburgh–except in a superficial sports rivalry sense...or perhaps out of concern that Pittsburgh is slightly behind Philadelphia in terms of revitalization and growth, and Harrisburg isn't doing enough to help

Although Philadelphia city and metro is -much- more populous than Pittsburgh.

I read with some amusement some articles and their blogs in the respective online newspapers, it is pretty much what I saw in the 1970s.

Lot of civic pride in both areas, considering the major businesses, major colleges, and major history. Big cities that are well-known around the world.

The difference being that in Pittsburgh it is fairly pure "rah-rah boosterism" about their area, while in Philadelphia many people seem to have a "love-hate relationship" with their area, whereby that there is both a lot of pride and boosterism, and a lot of sharp criticism of the area.

[qguy]

One of the St. Davids District 6-0 (Philadelphia and the four surrounding counties) engineers was speaking, and a loud voice interrupted him, someone from western Pennsylvania, and said, "As far as I'm concerned, we ought to build a fence around District 6-0, and give the whole damn thing to New Jersey!"  This is a true story, and I think it showed the attitude toward Philadelphia that existed in other parts of the state.

I don't take that as anything more than an expression of the petty frustrations of someone irritated by a discussion that was irrelevant to him personally.

I  heard a number of statements at 6-0 regarding resentments from other parts of the state, regarding perceived funding inequities.

Now as to the issue of intrastate infighting in general, here's what I've observed from various Pennsylvanians: (their sentiments, not mine)

- Philadelphia city dwellers think their dreams of a world-class transit-oriented nirvana are being shackled by concessions made to car-dependent suburbanites

- More broadly, people in greater Philadelphia (city and suburbs) believe they're carrying the dead weight of roughly 60 worthless, dying counties

- Outside the Philadelphia metro but within about 100 miles (Harrisburg, Reading, Allentown) attitudes toward Philadelphia aren't entirely negative, as personal and professional ties to the Philadelphia area abound, but there's a general sense that tax dollars are being siphoned to pay for transit and "Philly graft"

- Among many rural Pennsylvanians, Philadelphia is generally despised as a black hole that sucks up their hard-earned tax dollars and doesn't share their values

I would say that the above quote is a pretty accurate summation.

- I haven't encountered nearly as many anti-Philadelphia attitudes in Pittsburgh–except in a superficial sports rivalry sense...or perhaps out of concern that Pittsburgh is slightly behind Philadelphia in terms of revitalization and growth, and Harrisburg isn't doing enough to help

Although Philadelphia city and metro is -much- more populous than Pittsburgh.

I read with some amusement some articles and their blogs in the respective online newspapers, it is pretty much what I saw in the 1970s.

Lot of civic pride in both areas, considering the major businesses, major colleges, and major history. Big cities that are well-known around the world.

The difference being that in Pittsburgh it is fairly pure "rah-rah boosterism" about their area, while in Philadelphia many people seem to have a "love-hate relationship" with their area, whereby that there is both a lot of pride and boosterism, and a lot of sharp criticism of the area.

I think the comments here are a generally accurate description of the attitudes of many across the state. That can't help but penetrate the various PennDOT organizations to some degree.

Within PennDOT, there is a general anti-urban sentiment among employees in the rural counties. This is much moreso in the PennDOT county maintenance organizations. (As an instructive aside for any who may not know, the districts are numbered 1-0, 2-0, and so on, and the county maintenance organizations within each district are numbered 1-1, 1-2, etc., 2-1, 2-2, etc., and so on for each district.)

The employees in the districts are much more white-collar and tend not to be as anti-urban. The employees in the county maintenance organizations are much more blue-collar and tend to be more anti-urban. (Of course, I know that correlation does not imply causation.) The employees in the county maintenance organizations tend to think that District 6-0 (the five counties in southeast PA, including Philadelphia) sucks up an inordinate percentage of PennDOT resources, starving the other districts of their rightful due.

Of course, from my experience speaking with, and observing conversations of, many PennDOT employees across the state at various conferences and venues (and visits to all of the district offices and most of the county maintenance offices), invariably those with the most bitter attitudes had little grasp of the magnitude of the infrastructure and workload in District 6-0 compared with the rest of the state. For example, District 6-0 has a third of all of the state's signal lights and over a third of the state's lane miles. The statistics are similar for just about any metric one would examine (e.g.–population, interacting organizations and stakeholders, utilities, railroads, you name it). The project managers in all of the other districts are responsible for managing five to ten projects each. In District 6-0, the project managers manage 20 to 30 each. With no difference in pay. Pennsylvania has no cost-of-living pay adjustment either, so since it's far more expensive to live in southeast Pennsylvania as compared with, say, Fayette County, the employees in the rural areas earn more in terms of purchasing power.

As is often the case in these types of things, most of those with chips on their shoulders have never been to the place they're angry about and haven't witnessed the magnitude of the workload there.

District 6-0 employees would say that they are carrying the rest of the state, not the other way around.

I used to laugh when I heard some of the conversations.

[Beltway]

Although Philadelphia city and metro is -much- more populous than Pittsburgh.

I read with some amusement some articles and their blogs in the respective online newspapers, it is pretty much what I saw in the 1970s.

Lot of civic pride in both areas, considering the major businesses, major colleges, and major history. Big cities that are well-known around the world.

The difference being that in Pittsburgh it is fairly pure "rah-rah boosterism" about their area, while in Philadelphia many people seem to have a "love-hate relationship" with their area, whereby that there is both a lot of pride and boosterism, and a lot of sharp criticism of the area.

I think the comments here are a generally accurate description of the attitudes of many across the state. That can't help but penetrate the various PennDOT organizations to some degree.

Within PennDOT, there is a general anti-urban sentiment among employees in the rural counties. This is much moreso in the PennDOT county maintenance organizations. (As an instructive aside for any who may not know, the districts are numbered 1-0, 2-0, and so on, and the county maintenance organizations within each district are numbered 1-1, 1-2, etc., 2-1, 2-2, etc., and so on for each district.)

The employees in the districts are much more white-collar and tend not to be as anti-urban. The employees in the county maintenance organizations are much more blue-collar and tend to be more anti-urban. (Of course, I know that correlation does not imply causation.) The employees in the county maintenance organizations tend to think that District 6-0 (the five counties in southeast PA, including Philadelphia) sucks up an inordinate percentage of PennDOT resources, starving the other districts of their rightful due.

Of course, from my experience speaking with, and observing conversations of, many PennDOT employees across the state at various conferences and venues (and visits to all of the district offices and most of the county maintenance offices), invariably those with the most bitter attitudes had little grasp of the magnitude of the infrastructure and workload in District 6-0 compared with the rest of the state. For example, District 6-0 has a third of all of the state's signal lights and over a third of the state's lane miles. The statistics are similar for just about any metric one would examine (e.g.–population, interacting organizations and stakeholders, utilities, railroads, you name it). The project managers in all of the other districts are responsible for managing five to ten projects each. In District 6-0, the project managers manage 20 to 30 each. With no difference in pay. Pennsylvania has no cost-of-living pay adjustment either, so since it's far more expensive to live in southeast Pennsylvania as compared with, say, Fayette County, the employees in the rural areas earn more in terms of purchasing power.

As is often the case in these types of things, most of those with chips on their shoulders have never been to the place they're angry about and haven't witnessed the magnitude of the workload there.

District 6-0 employees would say that they are carrying the rest of the state, not the other way around.

I used to laugh when I heard some of the conversations.

The P3 bridge replacement project awarded in 2012 only provided a handful of replacements in District 6 (Philadelphia and the four surrounding counties).

"The project is an initiative to replace 558 aging bridges throughout Pennsylvania. Replacing the bridges will provide motorists with new, modern structures and allow PennDOT to remove them from their structurally deficient list. "
http://parapidbridges.com/projectoverview.html
That certainly seems unfair to District 6.

Central PA benefited mightily in allocated Appalachian Development Highway System (ADHS) corridors, and used the high funding rates (90% federal) and large federal funding pot in the 1960s thru 1990s to build most of these highways to Interstate standards (segments of US-220, US-15, US-22, US-322, US-219).

Also, how in the world did 3/4 of the area of Pennsylvania get added to the Appalachian Region?
https://www.arc.gov/images/programs/transp/ADHSMap9-30-2016.pdf

The upper half of the Appalachian Mountain counties in Virginia didn't even get included in the Appalachian Region.

[jeffandnicole]

Also, how in the world did 3/4 of the area of Pennsylvania get added to the Appalachian Region?
https://www.arc.gov/images/programs/transp/ADHSMap9-30-2016.pdf

The upper half of the Appalachian Mountain counties in Virginia didn't even get included in the Appalachian Region.

If I were to bet on that, is I'd say Shuster Junior probably had something to do with it.

[Beltway]

Also, how in the world did 3/4 of the area of Pennsylvania get added to the Appalachian Region?
https://www.arc.gov/images/programs/transp/ADHSMap9-30-2016.pdf

The upper half of the Appalachian Mountain counties in Virginia didn't even get included in the Appalachian Region.

If I were to bet on that, is say Shuster Junior probably had something to do with it.

Yeah, other than West Virginia at 100%, Pennsylvania got by far the largest percentage of ARC designation.

And those upper Virginia counties are prosperous enough that they probably would have gotten laughed at if they requested ARC designation.

[briantroutman]

The difference being that in Pittsburgh it is fairly pure "rah-rah boosterism" about their area, while in Philadelphia many people seem to have a "love-hate relationship" with their area, whereby that there is both a lot of pride and boosterism, and a lot of sharp criticism of the area.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I get the sense from many Philadelphians that they are, on the surface, very proud and defensive of their city, and yet at the same time underneath, they have a certain inferiority complex about being in the shadow of New York.

On the other hand, my sense is that Pittsburgh is far enough removed from the Northeastern intelligentsia that its down-to-earth people are happy to be proud of their great city for what it is.

Again, this is just one person's observation.

Also, how in the world did 3/4 of the area of Pennsylvania get added to the Appalachian Region?

I can't comment intelligently on Virginia, but if you compare the ARC map of Pennsylvania with other maps showing population and economic trends, there's a high degree of overlap between the designated ARC region and the area of the state that has (and continues) to see economic prospects and population decline. So that (to me) would suggest that the designation of those areas was appropriate. You could argue that this area's continued decline shows that cart-before-horse highway building doesn't create jobs–and then again you could also speculate how much worse the situation would be if not for those efforts.

The notable exceptions are Centre county–which continues to grow on the strength of Penn State–and some of the Pocono counties, which had a short boom of exurban NY commuters in recent years but are expected to level off and perhaps even decline in the coming decades.

If I were to bet on that, is I'd say Shuster Junior probably had something to do with it.

The king of pork barrel Bud may have been, but I don't think you can pin this on Shuster–Sr. or Jr. (Bill). The Appalachian Regional Commission was created in 1963 by President Kennedy–a decade before Sr. was first elected to Congress.

[jeffandnicole]

The king of pork barrel Bud may have been, but I don’t think you can pin this on Shuster—Sr. or Jr. (Bill). The Appalachian Regional Commission was created in 1963 by President Kennedy—a decade before Sr. was first elected to Congress.

Ah, OK.  I had taken it to be that this was a newly created area, which I now see is clearly not!

[Beltway]

The difference being that in Pittsburgh it is fairly pure "rah-rah boosterism" about their area, while in Philadelphia many people seem to have a "love-hate relationship" with their area, whereby that there is both a lot of pride and boosterism, and a lot of sharp criticism of the area.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I get the sense from many Philadelphians that they are, on the surface, very proud and defensive of their city, and yet at the same time underneath, they have a certain inferiority complex about being in the shadow of New York.

And in the shadow of Washington, Baltimore and Boston as well, considerably smaller cities than Philadelphia, but all of which have their own distinct national identities and impacts.

On the other hand, my sense is that Pittsburgh is far enough removed from the Northeastern intelligentsia that its down-to-earth people are happy to be proud of their great city for what it is.

And far enough west that it is not considered Northeastern, but is Midwestern.  They also rebounded from the massive decline of the steel industry from the 1950s to the 1970s, an industry which had a massive presence there, and restructured the economy toward service businesses and expansion of colleges and universities.

Also, how in the world did 3/4 of the area of Pennsylvania get added to the Appalachian Region?

I can't comment intelligently on Virginia, but if you compare the ARC map of Pennsylvania with other maps showing population and economic trends, there's a high degree of overlap between the designated ARC region and the area of the state that has (and continues) to see economic prospects and population decline. So that (to me) would suggest that the designation of those areas was appropriate.

But all of western PA including Pittsburgh and Erie?  Including the Scranton / Wilkes-Barre area?  To within about 10 miles of Harrisburg?

[JJBers]

Could someone make a map out of this. It would be curious to see how the looks, and seeing the worst region (and the best).

[Gnutella]

And far enough west that it is not considered Northeastern, but is Midwestern.  They also rebounded from the massive decline of the steel industry from the 1950s to the 1970s, an industry which had a massive presence there, and restructured the economy toward service businesses and expansion of colleges and universities.

Honestly, it boggles my mind that a city located in one of the 13 original colonies and longitudinally east of the entire state of Florida could be considered Midwestern. Sure, Pittsburgh is close enough to the actual Midwest that it does have a slight Midwestern influence in its culture, but if you ask 100 natives of Chicago if they consider Pittsburgh to be Midwestern, 99 of them would say no, and the other one wouldn't be sure. Personally, I think western Pennsylvania, western New York, western Maryland and the northern third of West Virginia are the "interior Northeast": not East Coast, but not Midwestern either. In fact, there seems to be more Appalachian than Midwestern cultural influence. I guess you could say that the interior Northeast is where the East Coast meets the Appalachians.

The boundary between the Northeast and Midwest is an indefinite one somewhere between Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Assuming a downtown-to-downtown drive and an average speed of 60 MPH including stops, Pittsburgh is 4:02 from Washington DC, 4:08 from Baltimore, 5:04 from Philadelphia, and 6:09 from New York, but 7:40 from Chicago. Conversely, Cleveland is 5:43 from Chicago, but 6:12 from Washington DC, 6:15 from Baltimore, 7:11 from Philadelphia, and 7:42 from New York. This is important because driving distance to the East Coast cities versus Chicago is often used as a method of delineation between the Northeast and Midwest. On top of that, anything more than a roughly six-hour drive is considered "out of the way" for easy travel by most people.

[Beltway]

And far enough west that it is not considered Northeastern, but is Midwestern.  They also rebounded from the massive decline of the steel industry from the 1950s to the 1970s, an industry which had a massive presence there, and restructured the economy toward service businesses and expansion of colleges and universities.

Honestly, it boggles my mind that a city located in one of the 13 original colonies and longitudinally east of the entire state of Florida could be considered Midwestern. Sure, Pittsburgh is close enough to the actual Midwest that it does have a slight Midwestern influence in its culture, but if you ask 100 natives of Chicago if they consider Pittsburgh to be Midwestern, 99 of them would say no, and the other one wouldn't be sure. Personally, I think western Pennsylvania, western New York, western Maryland and the northern third of West Virginia are the "interior Northeast": not East Coast, but not Midwestern either. In fact, there seems to be more Appalachian than Midwestern cultural influence. I guess you could say that the interior Northeast is where the East Coast meets the Appalachians.
The boundary between the Northeast and Midwest is an indefinite one somewhere between Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Assuming a downtown-to-downtown drive and an average speed of 60 MPH including stops, Pittsburgh is 4:02 from Washington DC, 4:08 from Baltimore, 5:04 from Philadelphia, and 6:09 from New York, but 7:40 from Chicago. Conversely, Cleveland is 5:43 from Chicago, but 6:12 from Washington DC, 6:15 from Baltimore, 7:11 from Philadelphia, and 7:42 from New York. This is important because driving distance to the East Coast cities versus Chicago is often used as a method of delineation between the Northeast and Midwest. On top of that, anything more than a roughly six-hour drive is considered "out of the way" for easy travel by most people.

"if you ask 100 natives of Chicago if they consider Pittsburgh to be Midwestern,"

Relative geographic reference is an imprecise tool.  I grew up in central Florida and from there everything appears "up north".  When we moved to Virginia, over 900 miles to the north, that seemed to us to be "way up north".