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MA MV inspection now checks condition of license plates

Started by SidS1045, October 07, 2017, 01:30:30 PM

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SidS1045

MA rolled out new equipment for state inspections as of 10/1.  Among the new requirements are photos of the license plates and the VIN, and the license plates must be evaluated for their condition, although it's not clear how the evaluation is done, by the machine or by the inspector.


I'm wondering how many of the green-and-white plates this will take off the road, since many of them are illegible.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow


Alps

Oh, that'll piss off some old-timers. I know how Massholes, excuse me, MA residents get about their green plates!

hotdogPi

My mom's car has a green plate, and it would have expired at the end of September. I'm wondering if it would have passed the condition test had it been one month later.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

kefkafloyd

There's plenty of red Spirit plates that are getting pretty ratty too. Faded backgrounds, numbers worn off...

If someone really wants to hang on to their greenies, there is a guy in-state who is doing restorations with the same reeflective paint as the original greenies. The downside is that you're without a plate for a week.

License plate visibility/reflection has been part of inspections for a while before this October. The visibility requirement's been something like 60 feet for years.

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:14:58 PM
If someone really wants to hang on to their greenies, there is a guy in-state who is doing restorations with the same reeflective paint as the original greenies. The downside is that you're without a plate for a week.

That sounds vaguely illegal to me.

kefkafloyd

#5
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 07, 2017, 09:20:38 PM
That sounds vaguely illegal to me.

Details:

http://houseofjoyfulnoise.com/motor-vehicle-license-plate-refurbishing/

More specifically, on legality:

http://houseofjoyfulnoise.com/motor-vehicle-license-plate-refurbishing/#comment-15407

If you do a bad job with, say, non-reflective paint or nail polish, you'd run afoul of visibility rules. But by all accounts the restoration makes the plate identical to when it came out of Walpole 30-ish years ago because he strips the plate down to bare metal and repaints it using the same reflective paint that was used in the past. This is an actual professional restoration, not a slapdash paint job.

Unrelated to this, but IMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.

SidS1045

Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:14:58 PMLicense plate visibility/reflection has been part of inspections for a while before this October. The visibility requirement's been something like 60 feet for years.

Of course, with a wink-wink-nod-nod and just pressing a key on the old machine, meaning "I looked and it's OK."   The required photos will, at least theoretically, put an end to that.

The MA inspection system was for a very long time a notoriously corrupt concept.  Everyone knew an inspection station where a certain sum of money led to "yeah, I'll put a stickah on it for ya"  without doing any work or keeping any records.  Requiring inspection stations to use state-issued equipment which will not print a sticker until all requirements are satisfied is at least a step in the right direction.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

SidS1045

Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PMIMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.

Not underhanded at all.  As you stated above, even some plates in the current series are beginning to degrade.  They must endure rain, snow, ice, sand, salt, polluted air and detergents used in car washes.  They cannot be realistically expected to look like new forever.  That's the reason they are supposed to be inspected once a year.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

kefkafloyd

Quote from: SidS1045 on October 07, 2017, 09:54:41 PM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PMIMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.

Not underhanded at all.  As you stated above, even some plates in the current series are beginning to degrade.  They must endure rain, snow, ice, sand, salt, polluted air and detergents used in car washes.  They cannot be realistically expected to look like new forever.  That's the reason they are supposed to be inspected once a year.

I'm not saying plates shouldn't be inspected, but that (in the past) a subjective test that isn't usually observed shouldn't be the method used to take a group of plates out of circulation because it can be used capriciously with the same reasons you mentioned earlier. Now with photographic tests, it should be a bit more objective and less beholden to the whims of an inspector (and less likely to let bad plates get through).

People with Spirit plates can get new plates for $10/plate at the RMV with their same registration, so it's not a big deal if they want a replacement plate. Green plate users who get replacements are currently getting assigned a new plate number and people are a bit possessive of their plate numbers (or, less so, the fact that they only need a rear plate). I think a lot of people would be more willing to give up the greenie if they could keep their same reg. The state's going to need the 123-ABC series again eventually, might as well bite the bullet and re-issue them.

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 07, 2017, 09:20:38 PM
That sounds vaguely illegal to me.

Details:

snip

I guess maybe it feels odd to me because in the states I've lived in, it's mandatory that you get new plates every so often–in Iowa, for example, every ten years. On the other hand, we don't have mandatory vehicle inspections, much less yearly ones.

SectorZ

The license plate issue is the least onerous thing involved here with this new inspection system. As usual with this state, conditions of vehicles is not the problem, it's the idiots driving them. The only bigger idiots are the ones making the rules.

roadman

Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Unrelated to this, but IMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.

If the RMV really wants to get rid of greenies, they should allow people to transfer their registration number to the newer Spirit plates.  This is the number one (pardon the pun) reason I've heard as to why people will not give up those plates, even when the RMV was allowing transfer of old plates for free.

BTW, you were always at risk to fail the safety inspection if your plate was illegible, so that's not new.  What is new here is the RMV extorting money from service station owners to install the new (and UNNECESSARY) equipment.  And the rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

roadman

Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 10:11:39 PM
People with Spirit plates can get new plates for $10/plate at the RMV with their same registration, so it's not a big deal if they want a replacement plate. Green plate users who get replacements are currently getting assigned a new plate number and people are a bit possessive of their plate numbers (or, less so, the fact that they only need a rear plate). I think a lot of people would be more willing to give up the greenie if they could keep their same reg. The state's going to need the 123•ABC series again eventually, might as well bite the bullet and re-issue them.

RMV will only issue replacement Spirit plates with the same number if ONE of them has been damaged or destroyed (as in a crash).  If you request replacement of both plates, RMV will issue you a new number.  Also, the RMV will not replace damaged or destroyed green plates, but will require you to get a new registration number, which is randomly issued, on Spirit plates.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

SidS1045

Quote from: SectorZ on October 07, 2017, 11:18:00 PM
The license plate issue is the least onerous thing involved here with this new inspection system. As usual with this state, conditions of vehicles is not the problem, it's the idiots driving them. The only bigger idiots are the ones making the rules.

In this case, the much bigger issue than the two you mentioned is the fact that (at last report) about a third of the new inspection computers aren't working correctly, or at all.  It's obvious at this point that the new machines were not thoroughly tested before deployment.

I went to get my sticker yesterday, at the same place I've been going to for years.  There were a few people ahead of me.  In the middle of the inspection ahead of me, the machine's OBDII scanner stopped working and would not respond to a cold boot.  Those of us waiting for stickers had to go elsewhere.

Owners of inspection stations where the equipment has broken down are now demanding reimbursement from the state.  (The inspection fee is $35 and the inspection station's owner keeps $23.50 of the fee, so some of those stations are losing lots of money.)
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

bob7374

Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Unrelated to this, but IMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.

If the RMV really wants to get rid of greenies, they should allow people to transfer their registration number to the newer Spirit plates.  This is the number one (pardon the pun) reason I've heard as to why people will not give up those plates, even when the RMV was allowing transfer of old plates for free.

BTW, you were always at risk to fail the safety inspection if your plate was illegible, so that's not new.  What is new here is the RMV extorting money from service station owners to install the new (and UNNECESSARY) equipment.  And the rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.
I was caught up in the chaos caused by the new regulations. I went to get an inspection the last week of September, but my car didn't pass. Finally had time to take it to a shop on Sept. 30 and got it repaired, but the shop did not do inspections and by the time it was fixed it was Sat PM and all the inspection stations were closed. Went to a place on Monday Oct. 2 but they couldn't inspect me because they were still installing the new software and they told me to come back later in the week. Checked out another place later in the week but the computer system went down. Went back to the original place on Saturday and after the technician worked on the system for about an hour got it up an running and got the car finally to pass an inspection. Needless to say, the owner of the place was not too thrilled with the new system.

NJRoadfan

Is Parsons running the new system? If so, I'm not surprised after the disaster they caused with NJ inspections 20 years ago.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 09, 2017, 10:17:12 AM
Is Parsons running the new system? If so, I'm not surprised after the disaster they caused with NJ inspections 20 years ago.

Although, that WAS 20 years ago...back when a certain Governor made a mess of a number of things (see also: EZ Pass, DMV Privatization).

Today's vehicles inspections in NJ are a breeze.  In fact, I just took my wife's vehicle thru Saturday.  Even though the registration was expiring this month, the inspector didn't mention it (I had the online renewal payment receipt with me just in case.)  Some inspectors ask you to wait outside the vehicle; others such as mine told me to go to the passenger seat.  He takes the car forward about 50 feet over a camera that looks at the underside of the vehicle...and I gotta be honest, it felt little strange for both of us to be sitting in a moving car during an inspection with neither of us wearing seatbelts.  The only thing officially inspected is emissions, done via a plug-in to the electronic port beneath the steering wheel.  Various inspectors may make little inspections of other items such as the horn, lights, etc.  Anything like that not working though will not cause the vehicle to fail inspection - they'll just tell you to fix it.

The inspector made a little small-talk, mostly mocking the other inspector in his lane.

He scrapped off the old sticker, slapped the new inspection sticker (2 years) on the windshield, and I drive thru the rest of the garage and out.

SidS1045

Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AMthe rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.

While it's true that you can't fake an OBD test, much of the rest of the inspection was done (under the old system) by visually observing an element of the inspection (i.e., something like "are the brake lights working?" or "are the headlights properly aimed?") and required a Pass/Fail keystroke on the machine.  Aside from the newly required photos of the license plates and VIN plate, I'm not so sure that those other inspection elements aren't still done visually, meaning that the inspector can still pass some element that really shouldn't pass.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

cpzilliacus

Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?

In Washington, D.C. and nearby, some people purchase semi-opaque plastic license plate covers, presumably  to make it difficult for photo radar and red light  cameras to read their tags.  Probably also to prevent cameras on toll roads and toll lanes from reading the tags.

The plate covers are illegal, but that is seldom enforced.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

hotdogPi

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?


No red light/speed cameras in Massachusetts.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Alps on October 07, 2017, 01:33:59 PM
Oh, that'll piss off some old-timers. I know how Massholes, excuse me, MA residents get about their green plates!
The reason for that is due to those were the only ones that were just rear-plate issue.  The previous designs and its successor designs were/are all front & rear issue.

Quote from: 1 on October 09, 2017, 12:33:49 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?


No red light/speed cameras in Massachusetts.
But all its tolled facilities are AET.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

storm2k

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 09, 2017, 10:33:05 AM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 09, 2017, 10:17:12 AM
Is Parsons running the new system? If so, I'm not surprised after the disaster they caused with NJ inspections 20 years ago.

Although, that WAS 20 years ago...back when a certain Governor made a mess of a number of things (see also: EZ Pass, DMV Privatization).

Today's vehicles inspections in NJ are a breeze.  In fact, I just took my wife's vehicle thru Saturday.  Even though the registration was expiring this month, the inspector didn't mention it (I had the online renewal payment receipt with me just in case.)  Some inspectors ask you to wait outside the vehicle; others such as mine told me to go to the passenger seat.  He takes the car forward about 50 feet over a camera that looks at the underside of the vehicle...and I gotta be honest, it felt little strange for both of us to be sitting in a moving car during an inspection with neither of us wearing seatbelts.  The only thing officially inspected is emissions, done via a plug-in to the electronic port beneath the steering wheel.  Various inspectors may make little inspections of other items such as the horn, lights, etc.  Anything like that not working though will not cause the vehicle to fail inspection - they'll just tell you to fix it.

The inspector made a little small-talk, mostly mocking the other inspector in his lane.

He scrapped off the old sticker, slapped the new inspection sticker (2 years) on the windshield, and I drive thru the rest of the garage and out.

Welcome to the new "cost savings" plans for inspections in NJ. Combine that with the fact that new cars have a 5 year grace on inspections and there's a lot fewer people rolling out for inspections anymore.

roadman

Quote from: SidS1045 on October 09, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AMthe rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.

While it's true that you can't fake an OBD test, much of the rest of the inspection was done (under the old system) by visually observing an element of the inspection (i.e., something like "are the brake lights working?" or "are the headlights properly aimed?") and required a Pass/Fail keystroke on the machine.  Aside from the newly required photos of the license plates and VIN plate, I'm not so sure that those other inspection elements aren't still done visually, meaning that the inspector can still pass some element that really shouldn't pass.
Question?  Is the problem of "I'll let it pass even though I shouldn't" so severe, as the RMV claims with their statements of "rampant fraud", to justify the time, expense, and hassle of installing an entirely new system?  Given that the RMV cited the exact same problem when they introduced the tailpipe test, and again when they substituted the OBD test for the tailpipe test, I seriously doubt it.  This is just another boondoggle designed to give a campaign contributor a huge chunk of money that's disguised as a "necessary improvement intended to improve safety."
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

SteveG1988

Quote from: roadman on October 09, 2017, 03:28:53 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on October 09, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AMthe rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.

While it's true that you can't fake an OBD test, much of the rest of the inspection was done (under the old system) by visually observing an element of the inspection (i.e., something like "are the brake lights working?" or "are the headlights properly aimed?") and required a Pass/Fail keystroke on the machine.  Aside from the newly required photos of the license plates and VIN plate, I'm not so sure that those other inspection elements aren't still done visually, meaning that the inspector can still pass some element that really shouldn't pass.
Question?  Is the problem of "I'll let it pass even though I shouldn't" so severe, as the RMV claims with their statements of "rampant fraud", to justify the time, expense, and hassle of installing an entirely new system?  Given that the RMV cited the exact same problem when they introduced the tailpipe test, and again when they substituted the OBD test for the tailpipe test, I seriously doubt it.  This is just another boondoggle designed to give a campaign contributor a huge chunk of money that's disguised as a "necessary improvement intended to improve safety."

It's still a problem even in states like PA. People have been caught with bogus stickers via taking a car in for a repair that had worn brakes..but a brand new sticker, the brakes were beyond the inspection minimums. So i could see up in MA people getting lick and sticks, particularly for stuff like window tint, loud exhausts, diesels that blow soot, etc.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

MASTERNC

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?

In Washington, D.C. and nearby, some people purchase semi-opaque plastic license plate covers, presumably  to make it difficult for photo radar and red light  cameras to read their tags.  Probably also to prevent cameras on toll roads and toll lanes from reading the tags.

The plate covers are illegal, but that is seldom enforced.

I see a number of these in Pennsylvania and Delaware as well, mainly for license plate readers and red light cameras (and maybe toll evasion)



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