Worthy (or Acceptable) Control Cities

Started by hobsini2, November 11, 2023, 07:16:00 PM

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hobsini2

I know this subject has been beaten to death with dead cats but instead of talking about which control cities need to be used on specific highways, let's take a different approach for Interstate, US Highway and major State Highway control cities. Let's talk about the worthiness and acceptability of a city as a control within a state and neighboring states. Here's what I mean. If you open up a road atlas to a random state map, there are certainly going to be some cities that stand out more than others largely because of the size in population and/or area. I think a tiered approach could work on a state basis. I try to avoid using suburbs unless they make sense.

So with that being said, here's how I would tier control cities in the Lower 48 States and DC:
Alabama
Tier 1: Birmingham, Huntsville, Montgomery, Mobile
Tier 2: Tuscaloosa, Auburn
Tier 3: Dothan, Decatur, Florence
Tier 4: Gadsden, Anniston, Selma, Talladega, Opp, Greenville, Enterprise, Eufaula, Scottsboro, Ft Payne, Hamilton, Demopolis, Troy, Cullman, Clanton
Outside cities: Pensacola FL, Tallahassee FL, Columbus GA, Atlanta GA, Chattanooga TN, Nashville TN, Memphis TN, Tupelo MS, Jackson MS, Meridian MS, Gulfport/Biloxi MS, New Orleans LA

Arizona
Tier 1: Phoenix, Tucson
Tier 2: Flagstaff, Yuma, Nogales, Tempe, Mesa
Tier 3: Kingman, Prescott, Lake Havasu City, Casa Grande, Scottsdale, Glendale
Tier 4: Page, Show Low, Holbrook, Douglas, Wickenburg, Quartzsite, Payson, Sedona, Globe, Sierra Vista, Surprise, Goodyear, Chandler
Outside cities: Las Cruces NM, Albuquerque NM, El Paso TX, Moab UT, Salt Lake City UT, St George UT, Las Vegas NV, Laughlin NV, Los Angeles CA, San Diego CA

Arkansas
Tier 1: Little Rock, Fayetteville
Tier 2: Ft Smith, Texarkana, Jonesboro
Tier 3: Hot Springs, Conway, North Little Rock, Bentonville, Pine Bluff
Tier 4: Searcy, Blytheville, Mountain Home, Helena-West Helena, West Memphis, Harrison, Mena, El Dorado, Camden, Arkadelphia, Hope, Russellville, Forrest City
Outside cities: Memphis TN, St Louis MO, Springfield MO, Kansas City MO, Tulsa OK, Oklahoma City OK, Dallas TX, Houston TX, Shreveport LA, Monroe LA, Jackson MS, Greenville MS

California
Tier 1: Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose
Tier 2: Oakland, Anaheim, Fresno, Bakersfield, Palm Springs, Long Beach
Tier 3: Modesto, Riverside, San Bernardino, Stockton, Redding, South lake Tahoe, Napa, Monterey, Santa Barbara, Pasadena, Modesto, Lancaster
Tier 4: Oceanside, Escondido, Barstow, Merced, Chico, Red Bluff, Santa Rosa, Eureka, Yreka, Yuba City, Bishop, Salinas, Ventura, San Luis Obispo, El Centro, Blythe, Santa Monica, Irvine, Temecula, Santa Ana
Outside cities: Tijuana MX, Mexicali MX, Yuma AZ, Phoenix AZ, Flagstaff AZ, Las Vegas NV, Reno, NV, Portland OR, Eugene OR

Colorado
Tier 1: Denver, Colorado Springs
Tier 2: Boulder, Grand Junction, Pueblo, Ft Collins
Tier 3: Aurora, Greeley, Estes Park, Aspen
Tier 4: Durango, Vail, Montrose, Eagle, Steamboat Springs, Ft Morgan, Sterling, Trinidad, La Junta, Lamar, Limon, Burlington, Alamosa, Walsenburg, Rifle
Outside cities: Topeka KS, Dodge City KS, Omaha NE, North Platte NE, Cheyenne WY, Laramie WY, Salt lake City UT, Moab UT, Las Vegas NV, Albuquerque NM, Santa Fe NM

Connecticut
Tier 1: Hartford, Bridgeport
Tier 2: New Haven, Waterbury, Danbury
Tier 3: New London, Norwich, Stamford
Tier 4: Torrington, Willimantic, Storrs, Meriden
Outside cities: New York NY, Newburgh NY, Albany NY, Springfield MA, Worcester MA, Boston MA, Providence RI

Delaware
Tier 1: Dover
Tier 2: Wilmington
Tier 3: Newark
Tier 4: Lewes, Milford, Georgetown, Smyrna
Outside cities: Cape May NJ, Atlantic City NJ, New York NY, Philadelphia PA, Baltimore MD, Annapolis MD, Salisbury MD, Norfolk VA

Florida
Tier 1: Jacksonville, Tallahassee, Miami, Tampa, Orlando
Tier 2: St Petersburg, Ft Lauderdale, Palm Beach, Gainesville, Daytona Beach, Key West
Tier 3: Pensacola, Ft Myers, Ocala, St Augustine, Titusville/Cape Canaveral, Panama City, Lakeland, Sarasota
Tier 4: Melbourne, Homestead, Naples, Port Charlotte, Ft Walton Beach, Key Largo, Port St Lucie, Clewiston, Winter Haven, Perry, Lake City
Outside cities: Savannah GA, Macon GA, Atlanta GA, Mobile AL, Dothan AL

Georgia
Tier 1: Atlanta, Savannah, Augusta,
Tier 2: Columbus, Macon, Athens
Tier 3: Rome, Valdosta, Albany, Dalton, Brunswick
Tier 4: Dublin, LaGrange, Gainesville, Toccoa, Statesboro, Bainbridge, Tifton, Waycross, Cordele, McRae, Hinesville
Outside cities: Jacksonville FL, Miami FL, Tallahassee FL, Tampa FL, Dothan AL, Montgomery AL, Birmingham AL, Chattanooga TN, Nashville TN, Charlotte NC, Columbia SC, Charleston SC, Greenville SC

Idaho
Tier 1: Boise
Tier 2: Pocatello, Idaho Falls, Couer d'Alene
Tier 3: Twin Falls, Lewiston, Nampa
Tier 4: Kellogg, Bonners Ferry, Grangeville, McCall, Burley, Rexburg, Mountain Home, Salmon, Hailey, Soda Springs
Outside cities: Salt Lake City UT, Jackson Hole WY, Butte MT, Missoula MT, Cranbrook BC, Spokane WA, Seattle WA, Portland OR, Reno NV, Las Vegas NV

Illinois
Tier 1: Chicago, Springfield, Rockford, Peoria
Tier 2: Aurora/Naperville, Moline/Rock Island, Joliet, Champaign/Urbana, Bloomington/Normal, Decatur
Tier 3: Elgin, Waukegan, Quincy, Kankakee, Danville, Jacksonville, DeKalb, Carbondale
Tier 4: Effingham, Galesburg, Macomb, Monmouth, La Salle/Peru, Dixon, Freeport, Galena, Lincoln, Rochelle, Mattoon, Mt Vernon, Vandalia, Harrisburg, Marion
Outside cities: Indianapolis IN, Evansville IN, South Bend IN, Detroit MI, Milwaukee WI, Madison WI, Dubuque IA, Des Moines IA, St Louis MO, Paducah KY, Louisville KY, Nashville TN, Memphis TN

Indiana
Tier 1: Indianapolis, Ft Wayne, Evansville
Tier 2: Hammond/Gary, Bloomington, South Bend, Lafayette, Terre Haute
Tier 3: Muncie, Kokomo, New Albany, Vincennes
Tier 4: Elkhart, Anderson, Richmond, Marion, Crawfordsville, Plymouth, Angola, Michigan City, Columbus, Rushville, Greensburg, Seymour, Madison, Washington
Outside cities: Louisville KY, Lexington KY, Owensboro KY, Nashville TN, Memphis TN, Cincinnati OH, Dayton OH, Toledo OH, Columbus OH, Detroit Mi, Lansing MI, Chicago IL, Champaign IL, Peoria IL, St Louis MO

Iowa
Tier 1: Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Davenport/Bettendorf
Tier 2: Iowa City, Sioux City, Council Bluffs, Waterloo, Dubuque
Tier 3: Ames, Mason City, Marshalltown, Burlington, Keokuk, Ottumwa,
Tier 4: Ft Dodge, Clarinda, Osceola, Atlantic, Dennison, Orange City, Storm Lake, Mt Pleasant, Muscatine, Clinton, Decorah, DeWitt
Outside cities: Chicago IL, Peoria IL, Madison WI, Minneapolis MN, Sioux Falls SD, Omaha NE, Kansas City MO, Columbia MO, St Louis MO

Kansas
Tier 1: Wichita, Topeka, Kansas City
Tier 2: Salina, Manhattan, Lawrence, Overland Park
Tier 3: Hays, Dodge City, Garden City, Liberal, Hutchinson, Olathe, Emporia, Pittsburg, Newton, McPherson
Tier 4:Goodland, Colby, Oakley, Great Bend, Pratt, Ft Scott, Chanute, Independence, Concordia, Ottawa
Outside cities: Denver CO, Pueblo CO, Amarillo TX, Oklahoma City OK, Tulsa OK, Joplin MO, Springfield MO, Kansas City MO, St Louis MO, St Joseph MO, Omaha NE, Lincoln NE, North Platte NE

Kentucky
Tier 1: Louisville, Lexington
Tier 2: Frankfort, Paducah, Owensboro
Tier 3: Bowling Green, Covington, Hopkinsville, Henderson, London, Richmond, Ashland
Tier 4: Elizabethtown, Fulton, Eddyville, Mayfield, Russellville, Glasgow, Somerset, Pikeville, Mt Sterling, Maysville, Hazard, Berea
Outside cities: Nashville TN, Memphis TN, Knoxville TN, Kingsport TN, Roanoke VA, Charleston WV, Cincinnati OH, Columbus OH, Indianapolis IN, Evansville IN, St Louis MO

Louisiana
Tier 1: New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Shreveport
Tier 2: Lafayette, Monroe, Lake Charles
Tier 3: Houma, Alexandria, Slidell, Hammond,
Tier 4: Covington, Morgan City, Tallulah, Mansfield, Winnfield, Opelousas, DeRidder, Natchitoches,
Outside cities: Biloxi/Gulfport MS, Meridian MS, Jackson MS, Vicksburg MS, Little Rock AR, Texarkana AR-TX, Dallas TX, Houston TX

Maine
Tier 1: Portland, Bangor
Tier 2: Augusta, Lewiston/Auburn
Tier 3: Bar Harbor, Houlton, Waterville, Brunswick
Tier 4: Ellsworth, Rockland, Norway, Caribou, Presque Isle, Ft Kent, Millinocket, Belfast, Farmington, Dover-Foxcroft, Calais
Outside cities: Boston MA, Portsmouth NH, Concord NH, Fredericton NB, Quebec City QU, Montreal QU

Maryland
Tier 1: Baltimore
Tier 2: Annapolis, Hagerstown, Frederick, Salisbury, Columbia
Tier 3: Cumberland, Ocean City, Bethesda, Silver Spring, College Park, Rockville, Aberdeen
Tier 4: Hancock, Cambridge, Waldorf, Westminster, Eaton, Lexington Park, Towson
Outside cities: Washington DC, Richmond VA, Norfolk VA, Roanoke VA, Charleston WV, Morgantown WV, Pittsburgh PA, Harrisburg PA, Philadelphia PA, Wilmington DE, Dover DE, New York NY

Massachusetts
Tier 1: Boston, Springfield
Tier 2: Worcester, Lowell, New Bedford, Lawrence
Tier 3: Hyannis, Fitchburg, Plymouth, Salem, Cape Cod, Fall River, Taunton, Foxborough
Tier 4: Greenfield, Pittsfield, Amherst, North Adams, Amesbury, Gloucester
Outside cities: Providence RI, Hartford CT, New York NY, Albany NY, Burlington VT, Concord NH, Portland ME, Montreal QU

Michigan
Tier 1: Detroit, Lansing, Grand Rapids
Tier 2: Flint, Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor, Sault Ste Marie, Benton Harbor/St Joseph, Port Huron, Pontiac, Muskegon
Tier 3: Saginaw, Marquette, Escanaba, Mackinaw City, Traverse City, Holland, Bay City, Jackson, Battle Creek, Mt Pleasant
Tier 4: Menominee, Iron Mountain, Houghton, Ironwood, St Ignace, Grayling, Alpena, Petoskey, Ludington, Marshall, Monroe, Niles, Cadillac
Outside cities: Toledo OH, Indianapolis IN, Ft Wayne IN, Chicago IL, Green Bay WI, Duluth MN, Toronto ON, London ON, Buffalo NY

Minnesota
Tier 1: Minneapolis/St Paul, Duluth, Rochester
Tier 2: St Cloud, Bloomington, Mankato
Tier 3: Albert Lea, Bemidji, Grand Rapids, Alexandria, Willmar, Worthington, Winona, Fergus Falls, Marshall
Tier 4: Thief River Falls, International Falls, Virginia, Detroit Lakes, Owatonna, Fairmont, Austin, Red Wing, Hinckley
Outside cities: Chicago IL, Madison WI, Green Bay WI, Thunder Bay ON, Winnipeg MB, Grand Forks ND, Fargo ND, Sioux Falls, Des Moines IA, Cedar Rapids IA

Mississippi
Tier 1: Jackson
Tier 2: Biloxi/Gulfport, Meridian, Vicksburg, Hattiesburg, Tupelo
Tier 3: Pascagoula, Columbus, Natchez, Starkville, Laurel, Greenville, Oxford, Corinth, Southaven
Tier 4: Grenada, Winona, McComb, Brookhaven, Waynesburg, Batesville, Greenwood, Tunica, Clarksdale, Cleveland, Yazoo City, Holly Springs
Outside cities: New Orleans LA, Baton Rouge LA, Shreveport LA, Little Rock AR, Memphis TN, Nashville TN, Birmingham AL, Mobile AL

Missouri
Tier 1: Kansas City, St Louis
Tier 2: Columbia, Jefferson City, Springfield, Joplin, St Joseph
Tier 3: Cape Girardeau, Independence, Kirksville, Branson, Wentzville, Hannibal, Rolla, Chesterfield, Festus, St Charles
Tier 4: Sikeston, Hayti, Poplar Bluff, Osage Beach, West Plains, Lebanon, Sedalia, Bowling Green, Moberly, Macon, Chillicothe, Nevada, Maryville, Cameron, Harrisonville, Clinton, Rock Port
Outside cities: Chicago IL, Springfield IL, Louisville KY, Memphis TN, Little Rock AR, Fayetteville AR, Oklahoma City OK, Tulsa OK, Wichita KS, Omaha NE, Des Moines IA, Cedar Rapids IA

Montana
Tier 1: Billings
Tier 2: Helena, Great Falls, Missoula
Tier 3: Butte, Bozeman, Kalispell, Livingston, Miles City
Tier 4: Shelby, Dillon, Deer Lodge, Hamilton, Browning, Libby, Lewistown, Havre, Glasgow, Malta, Culbertson, Sidney, Glendive, Broadus
Outside cities: Denver CO, Casper WY, Salt Lake City UT, Pocatello ID, Coeur d'Alene ID, Seattle WA, Cranbrook BC, Calgary AB, Lethbridge AB, Saskatoon SK, Bismarck ND, Williston ND

Nebraska
Tier 1: Omaha, Lincoln
Tier 2: North Platte, Kearney, Scottsbluff, Grand island
Tier 3: Lexington, Hastings, Columbus, Norfolk, Beatrice, O'Neill, Fremont
Tier 4: Ogallala, Sidney, Chadron, Valentine, McCook, Broken Bow, Nebraska City, Fairbury, Falls City
Outside cities: Denver CO, Wichita KS, Topeka KS, Kansas City MO, Des Moines IA, Sioux City IA, Sioux Falls SD, Rapid City SD, Cheyenne WY, Casper WY, Billings MT

Nevada
Tier 1: Las Vegas
Tier 2: Reno, Carson City
Tier 3: Laughlin, Elko, Henderson, Boulder City, Pahrump
Tier 4: Hawthorne, Tonopah, Mesquite, Ely, Fallon, Winnemucca, Battle Mountain, West Wendover, Minden, Lake Tahoe
Outside cities: Los Angeles CA, Sacramento CA, Boise ID, Salt Lake City UT, St George UT, Phoenix AZ

New Hampshire
Tier 1: Concord, Manchester
Tier 2: Nashua, Portsmouth
Tier 3: Hampton, Keene, Laconia, Lebanon, Littleton, Rochester
Tier 4: Claremont, Milford, Dover, Franklin, Berlin, Plymouth
Outside cities: Boston MA, Portland ME, Montreal QU, Burlington VT

New Jersey
Tier 1: Newark
Tier 2: Trenton, Atlantic City, Patterson, Camden
Tier 3: New Brunswick, Vineland, Cape May, Toms River, Princeton, Lakewood, Red Bank, Jersey City
Tier 4: Somerville, Newton, Ft Lee, Pennsville, Bridgeton
Outside cities: New York NY, Albany NY, Allentown PA, Philadelphia PA, Cleveland OH, Baltimore MD, Wilmington DE

New Mexico
Tier 1: Albuquerque, Santa Fe
Tier 2: Las Cruces, Roswell
Tier 3: Lordsburg, Alamogordo, Clovis, Gallup, Farmington, Carlsbad, Hobbs, Tucumcari, Artesia
Tier 4: Deming, Silver City, Truth or Consequences, Socorro, Raton, Las Vegas, Clayton, Springer, Taos, Santa Rosa, Bloomfield, Shiprock
Outside cities: El Paso TX, Lubbock TX, Amarillo TX, Denver CO, Salt Lake City UT, Phoenix AZ, Tucson AZ, Los Angeles CA

New York
Tier 1: New York, Buffalo, Albany, Rochester
Tier 2:  Syracuse, Binghamton, Niagara Falls, Schenectady
Tier 3: Utica, Riverhead, Hampton Bays, White Plains, Middletown, Newburgh, Poughkeepsie, Ithaca, Watertown, Elmira, Troy, Jamestown, Oswego, Rome, Kingston, Glens Falls, Saratoga Springs
Tier 4: Oneonta, Cooperstown, Hudson, Lake Placid, Plattsburgh, Massena, Malone, Champlain, Johnstown, Islip, Cortland, Olean, Corning, Dunkirk, Lockport
Outside cities: Newark NJ, Philadelphia PA, Scranton PA, Erie PA, Pittsburgh PA, Cleveland OH, Toronto ON, Ottawa ON, Montreal QU, Boston MA, Hartford CT, New Haven CT

North Carolina
Tier 1: Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro, Winston-Salem
Tier 2: Durham, Asheville, Fayetteville, Wilmington, Hickory, Gastonia, Rocky Mount
Tier 3: Waynesville, Hendersonville, Salisbury, Morganton, Kannapolis, Rockingham, Asheboro, Burlington, Chapel Hill, Greenville, Jacksonville, Goldsboro, Wilson
Tier 4: Murphy, Franklin, Statesville, Boone, Mt Airy, Sanford, Lumberton, New Bern, Whiteville, Elizabeth City, Roanoke Rapids, Henderson, Kill Devil Hills, Williamston, Morehead City
Outside cities: Richmond VA, Roanoke VA, Norfolk VA, Knoxville TN, Chattanooga TN, Atlanta GA, Greenville SC, Columbia SC, Charleston SC

North Dakota
Tier 1: Fargo, Bismarck
Tier 2: Grand Forks, Minot, Williston
Tier 3: Dickinson, Jamestown, Devils Lake, Mandan
Tier 4: Bowman, Beulah, Valley City, Pembina, Rugby, Grafton
Outside cities: Winnipeg MB, Saskatoon SK, Billings MT, Rapid City SD, Sioux falls SD, Minneapolis MN


Ohio
Tier 1: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati
Tier 2: Toledo, Dayton, Youngstown, Akron
Tier 3: Lima, Sandusky, Canton/Massillon, Troy, Findlay, Springfield, Warren, Mansfield, Steubenville, Elyria, Mentor, Newark, Zanesville, Portsmouth, Middletown, Lancaster
Tier 4: Bowling Green, Van Wert, Defiance, Upper Sandusky, Marion, Delaware, Bellefontaine, Marysville, Wooster, New Philadelphia, Salem, Ashtabula, Cambridge, Xenia, Chillicothe, Hillsboro, Ironton, Athens, Jackson, Marietta
Outside cities: New York NY, Buffalo NY, Pittsburgh PA, Erie PA, Charleston WV, Wheeling WV, Huntington WV, Lexington KY, Louisville KY, Indianapolis IN, Ft Wayne IN, Chicago IL, Detroit MI

Oklahoma
Tier 1: Oklahoma City, Tulsa
Tier 2: Norman, Lawton, Muskogee, Edmond
Tier 3: Enid, Stillwater, Ponca City, Bartlesville, McAlester, Ardmore, Shawnee, Guthrie
Tier 4: Boise City, Elk City, Sayre, Altus, Clinton, Weatherford, Woodward, Hugo, Chickasha, Ada, Durant, Sallisaw, Vinita, Poteau, Miami, Idabel
Outside cities: Amarillo TX, Wichita Falls TX, Dallas TX, Little Rock AR, St Louis MO, Kansas City MO, Wichita KS

Oregon
Tier 1: Portland
Tier 2: Eugene, Salem, Bend, Klamath Falls
Tier 3: Corvallis, Medford, Redmond, Coos Bay, Brookings, The Dalles, Pendleton
Tier 4: Grants Pass, Roseburg, Astoria, Florence, Lincoln City, Newport, Madras, Hood River, Lakeview, Ontario, Baker City, LaGrande, Hermiston, Burns
Outside cities: Sacramento CA, Reno NV, Boise ID, Spokane WA, Seattle WA

Pennsylvania
Tier 1: Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Allentown
Tier 2: Erie, Harrisburg, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, State College, Reading
Tier 3: Williamsport, Altoona, Washington PA, Uniontown, Greensburg, Beaver Falls, Johnstown, Gettysburg, York, Hazleton, Stroudsburg, Lancaster, Hershey
Tier 4: Sharon, Franklin, Meadville, Warren, DuBois, Clarion, Clearfield, Indiana, Bedford, Breezewood, Chambersburg, Milton, Pottstown, Lewistown, Chester, Norristown
Outside cities: Cleveland OH, Columbus OH, Akron OH, Wheeling WV, Morgantown WV, Washington DC, Baltimore MD, Roanoke VA, Wilmington DE, Atlantic City NJ, Trenton NJ, Newark NJ, New York NY, Binghamton NY, Buffalo NY, Hartford CT

Rhode Island
Tier 1: Providence
Tier 2: Jamestown
Tier 3: Woonsocket, Warwick
Tier 4:Westerly, Kingston, Bristol
Outside cities: Boston MA, Fall River MA, Worcester MA, Hartford CT, New York NY

South Carolina
Tier 1: Columbia, Charleston
Tier 2: Greenville, Spartanburg, Myrtle Beach, Hilton Head Island
Tier 3: Florence, Rock Hill, Aiken, Sumter, Anderson, Orangeburg, Summerville
Tier 4: Clemson, Chester, Newberry, Clinton, Greenwood, Barnwell, Walterboro, Georgetown, Bennettsville, Lancaster
Outside cities: Savannah GA, Augusta GA, Atlanta GA, Asheville NC, Charlotte NC, Fayetteville NC

South Dakota
Tier 1: Sioux Falls, Rapid City
Tier 2: Pierre, Aberdeen
Tier 3: Sturgis, Deadwood, Mitchell, Yankton, Vermillion, Huron, Watertown, Brookings
Tier 4: Custer City, Hot Springs, Mobridge, Belle Fourche, Redfield, Sisseton, Winner
Outside cities: Minneapolis MN, Sioux City IA, Omaha NE, Gillette WY, Billings MT, Bismarck ND, Fargo ND

Tennessee
Tier 1: Nashville, Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga
Tier 2: Clarksville, Kingsport, Johnson City, Bristol
Tier 3: Jackson, Franklin, Murfreesboro, Columbia, Hendersonville, Morristown, Cleveland, Oak Ridge, Sevierville, Elizabethton
Tier 4: Dyersburg, Union City, Covington, Savannah, Pulaski, Dickson, Fayetteville, Springfield, Lebanon, Cookeville, Manchester, Tullahoma, Winchester, Crossville, Dayton, LaFollette, Newport, Greenville
Outside cities: Little Rock AR, St Louis MO, Indianapolis IN, Louisville KY, Lexington KY, Roanoke VA, Asheville NC, Atlanta GA, Birmingham AL, Huntsville AL, Jackson MS

Texas
Tier 1: Houston, Dallas/Ft Worth, San Antonio, Austin, El Paso
Tier 2: Lubbock, Amarillo, Corpus Christi, Laredo, Midland/Odessa, McAllen/Pharr
Tier 3: Waco, Wichita Falls, Denton, Killeen, Beaumont, Abilene, Galveston, Tyler, Bryan/College Station, Brownsville, Harlingen, Victoria, San Angelo, Sherman, Paris, Texarkana, Cleburne, Greenville, Huntsville, Longview, Marshall, Lufkin, Nacogdoches, Weslaco, New Braunfels, San Marcos
Tier 4: Port Arthur, Kingsville, Lake Jackson, Plainview, Canyon, Dalhart, Dumas, Perryton, Pampa, Childress, Ft Stockton, Big Spring, Lamesa, Brownfield, Snyder, Sweetwater, Muleshoe, Carthage, Pecos, Presidio, Alpine, Del Rio, Eagle Pass, Uvalde, Bowie, Decatur, Gainesville, Vernon, Mineral Wells, Weatherford, Brownwood, Brady, Lampasas, Georgetown, Hillsboro, Conroe, Cleveland, Mt Pleasant, Sulphur Springs, Alice, Rio Grande City, Seguin, Columbus, McKinney
Outside cities: New Orleans LA, Shreveport LA, Little Rock AR, Tulsa OK, Oklahoma City OK, Denver CO, Albuquerque NM, Tucson AZ, Phoenix AZ, Monterrey MX

Utah
Tier 1: Salt Lake City
Tier 2: Provo, Ogden, St George
Tier 3: Logan, Brigham City, Cedar City, Moab, Nephi, Park City
Tier 4: Tremonton, Beaver, Richfield, Green River, Fillmore, Kanab, Price, Blanding, Vernal, Duchesne
Outside cities: Phoenix AZ, Las Vegas NV, Reno NV, Portland OR, Boise ID, Pocatello ID, Cheyenne WY, Denver CO, Albuquerque NM

Vermont
Tier 1: Burlington
Tier 2: Montpelier/Barre
Tier 3: Rutland, Brattleboro, St Johnsbury, St Albans
Tier 4: White River Jct, Bennington, Middlebury, Newport
Outside cities: Montreal QU, Quebec City QU, Concord NH, Boston MA, Springfield MA, Albany NY

Virginia
Tier 1: Richmond, Virginia Beach/Norfolk/Newport News (Hampton Roads), Roanoke, Arlington
Tier 2: Lynchburg, Charlottesville, Petersburg, Williamsburg, Blacksburg
Tier 3: Fredericksburg, Danville, Martinsville, Bristol, Harrisonburg, Suffolk, Winchester, Front Royal, Leesburg
Tier 4: Lexington, Covington, Bluefield, Big Stone Gap, Richlands, Wytheville, Pulaski, Galax, Staunton, South Boston, Exmore, Farmville, Emporia, South Hill, Warsaw, Culpeper, Sterling
Outside cities: Washington DC, Baltimore MD, Annapolis MD, Philadelphia PA, Harrisburg PA, Dover DE, Charleston WV, Knoxville TN, Winston-Salem NC, Charlotte NC, Raleigh NC

Washington
Tier 1: Seattle, Spokane
Tier 2: Tacoma, Olympia, Richland/Kennewick, Everett
Tier 3: Bellingham, Longview, Vancouver WA, Yakima, Bremerton, Bellevue, Mt Vernon, Walla Walla, Pullman, Wenatchee
Tier 4: Blaine, Aberdeen, Port Angeles, Moses Lake, Sunnyside, Kettle Falls, Grand Coulee, Ritzville, Clarkston, Othello, Ellensburg, Omak
Outside cities: Portland OR, Boise ID, Missoula MT, Vancouver BC

Washington DC
Outside cities: Richmond VA, Arlington VA, Front Royal VA, Annapolis MD, Baltimore MD, Frederick MD, New York NY

West Virginia
Tier 1: Charleston
Tier 2: Huntington, Wheeling, Morgantown
Tier 3: Beckley, Parkersburg, Clarksburg, Weirton, Fairmont, Martinsburg
Tier 4: Chester, Harpers Ferry, Weston, Charles Town, Keyser, Elkins, Bluefield, Summersville, Welch, Williamson, Madison, Lewisburg, Ripley
Outside cities: Lexington KY, Cincinnati OH, Columbus OH, Cleveland OH, Pittsburgh PA, Harrisburg PA, Baltimore MD, Washington DC, Richmond VA, Roanoke VA, Charlotte NC

Wisconsin
Tier 1: Milwaukee, Madison, Green Bay
Tier 2: Janesville/Beloit, Appleton, Oshkosh, Racine/Kenosha, Eau Claire, La Crosse, Waukesha
Tier 3: Wausau, Stevens Point, Wisconsin Dells, Fond du Lac, Beaver Dam, Sheboygan, Manitowoc, Superior
Tier 4: Portage, Tomah, Lake Geneva, Hudson, Menomonie, Marinette, Rhinelander, Sturgeon Bay, Shawano, Prairie du Chien, Dodgeville, Platteville, Rice Lake, Ashland, Hurley, Richland Center, Monroe, Watertown, Whitewater
Outside cities: Chicago IL, Rockford IL, Dubuque IA, Cedar Rapids IA, St Paul MN, Duluth MN, Marquette MI

Wyoming
Tier 1: Cheyenne, Casper
Tier 2: Laramie, Gillette
Tier 3: Rock Springs, Evanston, Sheridan, Green River
Tier 4: Cody, Buffalo, Riverton, Rawlins, Jackson, Kemmerer, Thermopolis, Douglas, Newcastle, Torrington, Wheatland, Worland
Outside cities: Denver CO, Omaha NE, Rapid City SD, Billings MT, Boise ID, Salt Lake City UT

Comments welcomed.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)


Big John

I think Waukesha is too close to Milwaukee to be its own control city.

hobsini2

Quote from: Big John on November 11, 2023, 07:25:00 PM
I think Waukesha is too close to Milwaukee to be its own control city.
Fair point. But it is a major enough suburb that it could be a tier 2 or 3.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

Scott5114

In Oklahoma, Lawton should be on tier 1 with OKC and Tulsa. There's no situation in which skipping over Lawton makes sense if a road is headed there, unless OKC or Tulsa is ahead of it.

In Nevada, Reno and Carson need to be on tier 1. They function quite a bit like their own state—the same north/south divide that California has extends across the border into Nevada. The Nevada divide is probably even more severe because there is more or less nothing but the "sagebrush ocean" between Northern Nevada and Southern Nevada; there's nothing like the Central Valley on the border between the two.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

mrsman

Hobsini2,

You have done a wonderful job organizing cities within the states. 

I am curious as to how you envision utilizing the different tiers.  Is one set of tiers acceptable for 2dis, and a different set of tiers acceptable for 3dis or US routes or state routes?

Are we limiting the discussion to freeways or to all types of roads?

Are we suggesting that if a road leads to both a Tier 1 city and a Tier 3 city, that the Tier 1 city would take precedence in some way?

Santa Ana and Pomona are signed as control within California.  Do they qualify as at least Tier 4 cities?

Max Rockatansky

The only tier I need includes the classics:

-  other Desert Cities
-  Thru Traffic
-  Beach Cities


Scott5114

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2023, 08:46:55 PM
The only tier I need includes the classics:

-  other Desert Cities
-  Thru Traffic
-  Beach Cities

- All Maine Points
- End of Route
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

pianocello

I think Gainesville FL should be considered on at least Tier 4, maybe even Tier 3. It's comparable in size to Ocala, and well-known throughout the state due to the university.

In Indiana, I understand the significance of Hammond and Gary on their own, but I feel like they're closer to suburbs in this context. I can't think of a scenario where they would be used instead of Chicago

Also in Indiana, the out-of-state list should include something in western Kentucky to capture the southwest corner of the state, now that there's an Interstate that goes in that direction. Paducah or Henderson would work.

Davenport, IA is significant enough on its own that it doesn't need the "/Bettendorf" as part of it. But maybe my local bias is showing :sombrero:

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2023, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2023, 08:46:55 PM
The only tier I need includes the classics:
-  other Desert Cities
-  Thru Traffic
-  Beach Cities
- All Maine Points
- End of Route
-[cardinal direction] Suburbs
Davenport, IA -> Valparaiso, IN -> Ames, IA -> Orlando, FL -> Gainesville, FL -> Evansville, IN

Dirt Roads

Although I like how the list from West Virginia looks, to be realistic nothing in the Mountain State is important enough to be ranked in the Tier 1 category.

Tier 1 cities ought to have a metro population of at least 1 million.  Cities with metro populations over 250K could get bumped up to Tier 1 if they have any of the following (such as a state capitol, hub airport, large major university, large military base, deepwater port, or a major attraction).  Being a railroader, it seems like a major rail terminal ought to qualify, and perhaps any important rail transit facilities.

Tier 2 cities ought to have a metro population of at least 250K.  Cities with metro populations over 100K could get bumped up to Tier 2 if they have any of the previous elements or has a major freeway junction (wanted to say Interstate junction, but there are some important non-Interstate freeways that would qualify).  Small cities over 50K could get bumped up to Tier 2 if they have two or more of those elements.


  • Let's take Charleston (still talking West Virginia), which actually has a junction of three Interstates.  There was a time that the MSA dropped below 250K, but being the state capital plus having the Interstate junction would have brought up from Tier 3 to a Tier 2.  The Charleston MSA has some additional counties tacked on [intentionally] to bring it back over 250K.


  • Next up is Huntington.  The Huntington MSA remains over 250K, but it includes cities in two other states (Ashland and Ironton).  Only one Interstate here, but it has one of the nations largest inland port which is a consequence of several major rail terminals (primarily coal loading facilities).  I would probably vote to bump it up to Tier 2 status, but it is doubtful that this would garner enough support to make it a consensus.


  • Due to a geographical quirk, Wheeling has an Interstate bypass.  I would count that, but one element isn't enough to reach Tier 2.


  • West Virginia University used to qualify as a "large major university", but I think that most folks agree that 35K is the new target.  Morgantown is the junction of two Interstates.  Enrollment is [famously] down at the state's flagship university, so you would have to reduce the target to 20K to allow Morgantown to get bumped up to Tier 2.


  • Let's take Beckley, which is also the junction of two Interstates (plus an ultra-important Appalachian Corridor L).  In the past, there was no way to consider bumping it up to Tier 2.  But since COVID, the newly-minted New River Gorge National Park has truly become a "major attraction" with over 1.5 million visitors last year.  Thus, Beckley now gets bumped into Tier 2.


These rules may seem logical enough, but they would cause some oddities:

  • The Lynchburg MSA isn't quite at 250K yet, but Liberty University is the only university in the state of Virginia that makes the cut.  Put them in Tier 2, even though they don't have a freeway connection.  [Virginia Tech now has enrollments that meet my requirements, but not quite enough on the Blacksburg campus by itself.  Radford Arsenal is considered an important military facility, but is not a "large military base"].


  • Wilmington, North Carolina almost has a complete Interstate bypass (albeit disconnected at both ends, rendering it "odd"), plus a deepwater port.  If it ever gets a major rail terminal (which has been planned for decades), it could get bumped up to Tier 1 status.

Amaury

So, if we were to use tier 1 for Washington, ONLY Spokane and Seattle would be used and nothing else whatsoever? Am I understanding that correctly? Or is it that those would be used first and then other communities if there's room for them?
Quote from: Rean SchwarzerWe stand before a great darkness, but remember, darkness can't exist where light is. Let's be that light!

Wikipedia Profile: Amaury

SkyPesos

Quote from: hobsini2 on November 11, 2023, 07:16:00 PM
Ohio
Tier 1: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati
Tier 2: Toledo, Dayton, Youngstown, Akron
Tier 3: Lima, Sandusky, Canton/Massillon, Troy, Findlay, Springfield, Warren, Mansfield, Steubenville, Elyria, Mentor, Newark, Zanesville, Portsmouth, Middletown, Lancaster
Tier 4: Bowling Green, Van Wert, Defiance, Upper Sandusky, Marion, Delaware, Bellefontaine, Marysville, Wooster, New Philadelphia, Salem, Ashtabula, Cambridge, Xenia, Chillicothe, Hillsboro, Ironton, Athens, Jackson, Marietta
Outside cities: Pittsburgh PA, Erie PA, Charleston WV, Wheeling WV, Huntington WV, Lexington KY, Louisville KY, Indianapolis IN, Ft Wayne IN, Chicago IL, Detroit MI
You forgot New York City in the "Outside Cities" List  :sombrero:. Also I think there's a sign with Buffalo on the bottom line on I-90 EB near the OH-PA border, can't find it though.

Looking at the rest of the list, it looks like the primary interstate controls are mainly in Tiers 1 and 2 (also one in Tier 4, which is Marietta, and that should be replaced with Charleston WV on signs). Tier 3's are mainly first lines on distance signs (Ohio uses 2-line distance signs rather than the more common 3 lines, with the primary control on the bottom line). I would move both Chillicothe and Athens up to Tier 3 though, they're both sizeable cities for this part of the state, and a major junction point between two expressways (US 23 and 35 in Chillicothe, US 33 and US 50/OH 32 in Athens).

hobsini2

Quote from: pianocello on November 11, 2023, 09:08:29 PM
I think Gainesville FL should be considered on at least Tier 4, maybe even Tier 3. It's comparable in size to Ocala, and well-known throughout the state due to the university.

In Indiana, I understand the significance of Hammond and Gary on their own, but I feel like they're closer to suburbs in this context. I can't think of a scenario where they would be used instead of Chicago

Also in Indiana, the out-of-state list should include something in western Kentucky to capture the southwest corner of the state, now that there's an Interstate that goes in that direction. Paducah or Henderson would work.

Davenport, IA is significant enough on its own that it doesn't need the "/Bettendorf" as part of it. But maybe my local bias is showing :sombrero:

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2023, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2023, 08:46:55 PM
The only tier I need includes the classics:
-  other Desert Cities
-  Thru Traffic
-  Beach Cities
- All Maine Points
- End of Route
-[cardinal direction] Suburbs
I have Gainesville as a Tier 2.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

hobsini2

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2023, 08:30:51 PM
In Oklahoma, Lawton should be on tier 1 with OKC and Tulsa. There's no situation in which skipping over Lawton makes sense if a road is headed there, unless OKC or Tulsa is ahead of it.

In Nevada, Reno and Carson need to be on tier 1. They function quite a bit like their own state—the same north/south divide that California has extends across the border into Nevada. The Nevada divide is probably even more severe because there is more or less nothing but the "sagebrush ocean" between Northern Nevada and Southern Nevada; there's nothing like the Central Valley on the border between the two.
You're right about Reno. It qualifies for Tier 1 status. But I think Carson is Tier 2 because it is not as big a draw. As for Lawton, I generally leave Tier 1 for major cities. That's why I had it at Tier 2 status but if you want it at Tier 1, I got no big issues.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

hobsini2

Quote from: mrsman on November 11, 2023, 08:41:06 PM
Hobsini2,

You have done a wonderful job organizing cities within the states. 

I am curious as to how you envision utilizing the different tiers.  Is one set of tiers acceptable for 2dis, and a different set of tiers acceptable for 3dis or US routes or state routes?

Are we limiting the discussion to freeways or to all types of roads?

Are we suggesting that if a road leads to both a Tier 1 city and a Tier 3 city, that the Tier 1 city would take precedence in some way?

Santa Ana and Pomona are signed as control within California.  Do they qualify as at least Tier 4 cities?
This is not limited to freeways. This is for corridors connecting the cities that are tiered. For instance, take US 380. US 380 starts in Greenville TX (Tier 3), passes by Denton, Decatur, Brownfield, Roswell before ending just south of Socorro NM. So those cities would be used as the primary control along with whatever the next town or junction on the mileage signs. Now that I look at it, I should include McKinney as a Tier 4.

Tier 1 is always acceptable for all routes. Tier 2 is on a case by case situation for 2dis. For instance, in Texas, Lubbock and Amarillo are certainly good for I-27 primary controls. But neither would be in the same league as the Tier 1 cities by proportion.

For Santa Ana I substituted Anaheim and Irvine. But yes it could be a Tier 4.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

hobsini2

Quote from: pianocello on November 11, 2023, 09:08:29 PM
I think Gainesville FL should be considered on at least Tier 4, maybe even Tier 3. It's comparable in size to Ocala, and well-known throughout the state due to the university.

In Indiana, I understand the significance of Hammond and Gary on their own, but I feel like they're closer to suburbs in this context. I can't think of a scenario where they would be used instead of Chicago

Also in Indiana, the out-of-state list should include something in western Kentucky to capture the southwest corner of the state, now that there's an Interstate that goes in that direction. Paducah or Henderson would work.

Davenport, IA is significant enough on its own that it doesn't need the "/Bettendorf" as part of it. But maybe my local bias is showing :sombrero:

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2023, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 11, 2023, 08:46:55 PM
The only tier I need includes the classics:
-  other Desert Cities
-  Thru Traffic
-  Beach Cities
- All Maine Points
- End of Route
-[cardinal direction] Suburbs
Hammond and Gary are "suburbs" of Chicago however, they are also there to account for the Lake County cities within the state. That's why I have them as Tier 2.
As for something heading into western KY, if you notice, I used Memphis TN instead. For the outside cities, I wanted to use bigger cities when possible. I did the same thing in Tennessee to go north by using Indianapolis.
I only used Bettendorf because of the Quad Cities. Yes Davenport could stand alone if you want just like Moline on the IL side.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

hobsini2

Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 11, 2023, 10:11:52 PM
Although I like how the list from West Virginia looks, to be realistic nothing in the Mountain State is important enough to be ranked in the Tier 1 category.

Tier 1 cities ought to have a metro population of at least 1 million.  Cities with metro populations over 250K could get bumped up to Tier 1 if they have any of the following (such as a state capitol, hub airport, large major university, large military base, deepwater port, or a major attraction).  Being a railroader, it seems like a major rail terminal ought to qualify, and perhaps any important rail transit facilities.

Tier 2 cities ought to have a metro population of at least 250K.  Cities with metro populations over 100K could get bumped up to Tier 2 if they have any of the previous elements or has a major freeway junction (wanted to say Interstate junction, but there are some important non-Interstate freeways that would qualify).  Small cities over 50K could get bumped up to Tier 2 if they have two or more of those elements.


  • Let's take Charleston (still talking West Virginia), which actually has a junction of three Interstates.  There was a time that the MSA dropped below 250K, but being the state capital plus having the Interstate junction would have brought up from Tier 3 to a Tier 2.  The Charleston MSA has some additional counties tacked on [intentionally] to bring it back over 250K.


  • Next up is Huntington.  The Huntington MSA remains over 250K, but it includes cities in two other states (Ashland and Ironton).  Only one Interstate here, but it has one of the nations largest inland port which is a consequence of several major rail terminals (primarily coal loading facilities).  I would probably vote to bump it up to Tier 2 status, but it is doubtful that this would garner enough support to make it a consensus.


  • Due to a geographical quirk, Wheeling has an Interstate bypass.  I would count that, but one element isn't enough to reach Tier 2.


  • West Virginia University used to qualify as a "large major university", but I think that most folks agree that 35K is the new target.  Morgantown is the junction of two Interstates.  Enrollment is [famously] down at the state's flagship university, so you would have to reduce the target to 20K to allow Morgantown to get bumped up to Tier 2.


  • Let's take Beckley, which is also the junction of two Interstates (plus an ultra-important Appalachian Corridor L).  In the past, there was no way to consider bumping it up to Tier 2.  But since COVID, the newly-minted New River Gorge National Park has truly become a "major attraction" with over 1.5 million visitors last year.  Thus, Beckley now gets bumped into Tier 2.


These rules may seem logical enough, but they would cause some oddities:

  • The Lynchburg MSA isn't quite at 250K yet, but Liberty University is the only university in the state of Virginia that makes the cut.  Put them in Tier 2, even though they don't have a freeway connection.  [Virginia Tech now has enrollments that meet my requirements, but not quite enough on the Blacksburg campus by itself.  Radford Arsenal is considered an important military facility, but is not a "large military base"].


  • Wilmington, North Carolina almost has a complete Interstate bypass (albeit disconnected at both ends, rendering it "odd"), plus a deepwater port.  If it ever gets a major rail terminal (which has been planned for decades), it could get bumped up to Tier 1 status.
I felt that Charleston deserved to be Tier 1 due to it being the largest city and the capital. The tiers were broken down by in state proportion of the population and the importance. This is how every state gets at least one tier one city. But I do like your insight and justifications.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

ilpt4u

Little Rock, AR needs a "coming soon" (relatively) addition for IL

hobsini2

Quote from: Amaury on November 11, 2023, 10:19:08 PM
So, if we were to use tier 1 for Washington, ONLY Spokane and Seattle would be used and nothing else whatsoever? Am I understanding that correctly? Or is it that those would be used first and then other communities if there's room for them?
So Tier 1 is to be used first but the roadway is not limited to tier 1. So if you did say I-82, EB would be Yakima, Richland/Kennewick, Hermiston and Boise with Boise being used on the mileage signs every so often. So to answer your questions, it's closer to your second thought of how it works. Tacoma, if it was elsewhere in the state away from the Seattle area would be Tier 1. But because it is so close to Seattle, it gets knocked down a peg.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

hobsini2

Quote from: ilpt4u on November 12, 2023, 12:39:05 AM
Little Rock, AR needs a "coming soon" (relatively) addition for IL
I did debate on that but did not include it.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

hobsini2

Quote from: SkyPesos on November 11, 2023, 11:19:53 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on November 11, 2023, 07:16:00 PM
Ohio
Tier 1: Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati
Tier 2: Toledo, Dayton, Youngstown, Akron
Tier 3: Lima, Sandusky, Canton/Massillon, Troy, Findlay, Springfield, Warren, Mansfield, Steubenville, Elyria, Mentor, Newark, Zanesville, Portsmouth, Middletown, Lancaster
Tier 4: Bowling Green, Van Wert, Defiance, Upper Sandusky, Marion, Delaware, Bellefontaine, Marysville, Wooster, New Philadelphia, Salem, Ashtabula, Cambridge, Xenia, Chillicothe, Hillsboro, Ironton, Athens, Jackson, Marietta
Outside cities: Pittsburgh PA, Erie PA, Charleston WV, Wheeling WV, Huntington WV, Lexington KY, Louisville KY, Indianapolis IN, Ft Wayne IN, Chicago IL, Detroit MI
You forgot New York City in the "Outside Cities" List  :sombrero:. Also I think there's a sign with Buffalo on the bottom line on I-90 EB near the OH-PA border, can't find it though.

Looking at the rest of the list, it looks like the primary interstate controls are mainly in Tiers 1 and 2 (also one in Tier 4, which is Marietta, and that should be replaced with Charleston WV on signs). Tier 3's are mainly first lines on distance signs (Ohio uses 2-line distance signs rather than the more common 3 lines, with the primary control on the bottom line). I would move both Chillicothe and Athens up to Tier 3 though, they're both sizeable cities for this part of the state, and a major junction point between two expressways (US 23 and 35 in Chillicothe, US 33 and US 50/OH 32 in Athens).
You are correct. I forgot New York City certainly. I had Erie to cover that corner but after thinking it over, Buffalo should be used as well. Added them.
As for Chillicothe and Athens moving up to Tier 3, you won't get an argument from me about either of those going up.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

ran4sh

I agree with a lot of this, but regarding the idea of designated "outside cities", I think the best option is to simply use the other state's list for whatever tiers are applicable.

I understand that in practice there are control cities that change just because a state line was crossed, due to differing practices between DOTs, but that's not really endorsed as a good practice by the MUTCD or anything, really.

"Little Rock needs a 'coming soon' addition for IL" - This is something I disagree with. Just because I-57 gets extended there, doesn't mean the traffic will actually go that way.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

ran4sh

I know I said I don't like the separate "outside cities" list, but for Georgia I'm not seeing why Miami would be on it. And Charlotte only makes sense if Greenville/Spartanburg are skipped on I-85, which I don't think should happen. If anything, Asheville NC should be added (US 23 north, although in Georgia the section concurrent with US 441 is usually just called 441).

For SC add Wilmington NC to the outside city list (US 17 north)
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

ilpt4u

Quote from: ran4sh on November 12, 2023, 01:52:34 AM
"Little Rock needs a 'coming soon' addition for IL" - This is something I disagree with. Just because I-57 gets extended there, doesn't mean the traffic will actually go that way.
With that thought process, the SB Control should be changed to Nashville leading to the 24/57 split

It doesn't have to be posted in Chicagoland (tho I would, but understand your point), but by I-64/Mount Vernon and certainly by I-24/Marion, Little Rock should be the SB Control, if/when I-57 is signed into central Arkansas

IDOT signs I-24/Nashville along I-64 EB before reaching Mt Vernon/I-57. Controlling 57 SB for a city it actually goes to versus one it does not really is not a bridge too far

hotdogPi

Quote from: hobsini2 on November 11, 2023, 07:16:00 PM
Massachusetts
Tier 1: Boston, Springfield
Tier 2: Worcester, Lowell, New Bedford, Lawrence
Tier 3: Hyannis, Fitchburg, Plymouth, Salem, Cape Cod, Fall River, Taunton, Foxborough
Tier 4: Greenfield, Pittsfield, Amherst, North Adams, Amesbury, Gloucester
Outside cities: Providence RI, Hartford CT, New York NY, Albany NY, Burlington VT, Concord NH, Portland ME, Montreal QU

Amesbury doesn't deserve control city status of any type.

Hyannis doesn't actually exist. Check a map of Massachusetts's 351 municipalities, and you won't find it.
Clinched, plus MA 286

Traveled, plus
US 13, 44, 50
MA 22, 35, 40, 107, 109, 117, 119, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

Lowest untraveled: 25

SD Mapman

Quote from: hobsini2 on November 11, 2023, 07:16:00 PM
South Dakota
Tier 1: Sioux Falls, Rapid City
Tier 2: Pierre, Aberdeen
Tier 3: Sturgis, Deadwood, Mitchell, Yankton, Vermillion, Huron, Watertown, Brookings
Tier 4: Custer City, Hot Springs, Mobridge, Belle Fourche, Redfield, Sisseton, Winner
Outside cities: Minneapolis MN, Sioux City IA, Omaha NE, Gillette WY, Billings MT, Bismarck ND, Fargo ND

Missing Spearfish, only town with a state university and in the top 10 in population not on this list (it's fine everyone forgets we exist, not like we're a minor regional shopping and tourist destination or anything like that no).

SD's practice (which I think is similar to a lot of the West) is to add junctions as well, so you have Albert Lea as the control city heading east from Sioux Falls, not Minneapolis. In fact, I don't think Minneapolis is on any signs in SD come to think of it.
The traveler sees what he sees, the tourist sees what he has come to see. - G.K. Chesterton



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