Virginia

[1995hoo]

The Governor signed a bill that will expand the "Move Over/Slow Down" law, effective July 1. It will now require drivers to move over or slow down for any vehicle on the side of the road that is displaying flashing lights–which includes using the hazard flashers (what some people call the "four-ways")–or flares. In other words, in the past you had to move over or slow down for stopped emergency response vehicles or tow trucks. That's now expanded under the theory that a person who experiences a flat tire or a breakdown faces a hazard the same as the emergency responders do when they stop on the side of the road.

I have never seen the existing law enforced, and I've almost never seen anyone obeying it. With that said, moving over or slowing down when there's someone on the shoulder moving around a disabled vehicle always seemed like common sense to me even long before the rise of "Move Over/Slown Down" laws.

https://www.wtkr.com/news/move-over-lax-expands-to-all-drivers-in-virginia

[sprjus4]

I have never seen the existing law enforced, and I've almost never seen anyone obeying it.

When it comes to police specifically pulled over, I've noticed fairly high compliance, with a good majority thinking they need to move over and also slow down, which then begins a small traffic jam.

With that said, moving over or slowing down when there's someone on the shoulder moving around a disabled vehicle always seemed like common sense to me even long before the rise of "Move Over/Slown Down" laws.

That is true - I always try to change lanes for a disabled vehicle - however, there are not always the best opportunities to, and my only concern is that some drivers will overreact and begin to shift lanes while slowing down to 50 mph (on a 70 mph highway) in the left lane, causing everyone to slam on their brakes and drive erratically around that guy - especially those not caring to obey the law.

[Hunty2022]

The other night, new traffic lights were put in use at the US 29/33 intersection, and the old ones were taken down. I managed to get pictures of all 4 of the new lights, this is the light on US 29 North:



Construction at the intersection is supposed to be completed during Summer 2023, according to the VDOT project page.

[tckma]

I have never seen the existing law enforced, and I've almost never seen anyone obeying it. With that said, moving over or slowing down when there's someone on the shoulder moving around a disabled vehicle always seemed like common sense to me even long before the rise of "Move Over/Slown Down" laws.

Don't know about enforcement of this in Virginia.  However, I was pulled over in Maryland for this (with, at the time, MD plates and an MD license); cop was nice about it and said "we're expanding this to all vehicles October 1" and gave me a (written) warning and an info pamphlet.  Thing is, the car I was supposed to "move over" for (because I slowed down for sure) was the very cop car that pulled me over, and at the time he had no lights on and no one pulled over.  This has me convinced it was part of a public information campaign about the law.  Sit on the side of the road at night with your lights off and pull over anyone who doesn't move into the left lane.

I imagine Virginia highway patrol cops are too busy arresting people for 81 in a 70 zone and impounding their cars.

[1995hoo]

I have never seen the existing law enforced, and I've almost never seen anyone obeying it. With that said, moving over or slowing down when there's someone on the shoulder moving around a disabled vehicle always seemed like common sense to me even long before the rise of "Move Over/Slown Down" laws.

Don't know about enforcement of this in Virginia.  However, I was pulled over in Maryland for this (with, at the time, MD plates and an MD license); cop was nice about it and said "we're expanding this to all vehicles October 1" and gave me a (written) warning and an info pamphlet.  Thing is, the car I was supposed to "move over" for (because I slowed down for sure) was the very cop car that pulled me over, and at the time he had no lights on and no one pulled over.  This has me convinced it was part of a public information campaign about the law.  Sit on the side of the road at night with your lights off and pull over anyone who doesn't move into the left lane.

I imagine Virginia highway patrol cops are too busy arresting people for 81 in a 70 zone and impounding their cars.

Unlikely, seeing as how that's simple speeding. (They amended the reckless driving law a few years ago to change the threshold in 65- and 70-mph zones.)

[Mapmikey]

I have never seen the existing law enforced, and I've almost never seen anyone obeying it.

When it comes to police specifically pulled over, I've noticed fairly high compliance, with a good majority thinking they need to move over and also slow down, which then begins a small traffic jam.

With that said, moving over or slowing down when there's someone on the shoulder moving around a disabled vehicle always seemed like common sense to me even long before the rise of "Move Over/Slown Down" laws.

That is true - I always try to change lanes for a disabled vehicle - however, there are not always the best opportunities to, and my only concern is that some drivers will overreact and begin to shift lanes while slowing down to 50 mph (on a 70 mph highway) in the left lane, causing everyone to slam on their brakes and drive erratically around that guy - especially those not caring to obey the law.

Adherence to the current law is common inside the toll lanes.  Like hoo, i learned to do this with any vehicle on the shoulder 40 years ago.

My annoyance is that in the toll lanes sometimes a VSP vehicle is by itself on the shoulder with blue flashing lights going.  i always assume it's a traffic calming move but it's a mixed bag how people react to this specific scenario.

[sprjus4]

Don't know about enforcement of this in Virginia.  However, I was pulled over in Maryland for this (with, at the time, MD plates and an MD license); cop was nice about it and said "we're expanding this to all vehicles October 1" and gave me a (written) warning and an info pamphlet.  Thing is, the car I was supposed to "move over" for (because I slowed down for sure) was the very cop car that pulled me over, and at the time he had no lights on and no one pulled over.  This has me convinced it was part of a public information campaign about the law.  Sit on the side of the road at night with your lights off and pull over anyone who doesn't move into the left lane.

I'm not sure how it is in Maryland, but in Virginia, the vehicle must have hazards activated, otherwise you do not have to move over.

I see plenty of abandoned or no hazards vehicles pulled over, no reason to move over.

I imagine Virginia highway patrol cops are too busy arresting people for 81 in a 70 zone and impounding their cars.

How does a speeding ticket turn into arrest & impounding vehicles? That is only applicable if the are charged with reckless driving, which is 86 mph or greater, or 20 mph over.

And either way... even with those "reckless"  tickets (it's not reckless in reality), they rarely arrest or impound the vehicle, unless there's other issues such as suspended license, drugs, DUI, etc.

[tckma]

How does a speeding ticket turn into arrest & impounding vehicles? That is only applicable if the are charged with reckless driving, which is 86 mph or greater, or 20 mph over.

And either way... even with those "reckless"  tickets (it's not reckless in reality), they rarely arrest or impound the vehicle, unless there's other issues such as suspended license, drugs, DUI, etc.

Reckless driving in Virginia is anything above 80 MPH or 20 over the speed limit, whichever is lower.  There are signs in the 70 MPH zones on I-95 near Richmond saying OVER 80 MPH IS RECKLESS DRIVING.

[sprjus4]

Nope... reckless driving is anything over 85 mph or 20+ mph over.

§ 46.2-862. Exceeding speed limit.
A person is guilty of reckless driving who drives a motor vehicle on the highways in the Commonwealth (i) at a speed of 20 miles per hour or more in excess of the applicable maximum speed limit or (ii) in excess of 85 miles per hour regardless of the applicable maximum speed limit.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title46.2/chapter8/article7/

Prior to 2020, it was anything over 80 mph. However, that has since been changed.

[Takumi]

How does a speeding ticket turn into arrest & impounding vehicles? That is only applicable if the are charged with reckless driving, which is 86 mph or greater, or 20 mph over.

And either way... even with those "reckless"  tickets (it's not reckless in reality), they rarely arrest or impound the vehicle, unless there's other issues such as suspended license, drugs, DUI, etc.

Reckless driving in Virginia is anything above 80 MPH or 20 over the speed limit, whichever is lower.  There are signs in the 70 MPH zones on I-95 near Richmond saying OVER 80 MPH IS RECKLESS DRIVING.

Tell me you haven't been in Virginia recently without telling me you haven't been in Virginia recently.

[sprjus4]

Are those signs even posted anymore? I recall zero of them existing on I-81 anymore (I've driven this highway quite a few times in the last few months). Did they remove them when the new law went into place? I cannot speak for I-95 - have not been on that road in probably a year.

[Takumi]

I've been on I-95 to the NC border in both directions multiple times since 2020 and haven't seen them.

[1995hoo]

Always amusing when people who don't live in Virginia consider themselves qualified to lecture those of us who do about Virginia law, signage, traffic, etc., especially when they're relying on outdated information. 
(I even mentioned in reply 6804 that the statute had been amended, prior to the lecturing post.)

[Rothman]

Always amusing when people who don't live in Virginia consider themselves qualified to lecture those of us who do about Virginia law, signage, traffic, etc., especially when they're relying on outdated information. 
(I even mentioned in reply 6804 that the statute had been amended, prior to the lecturing post.)

Eh, I find the argument that one who lives in a state to inherently know the law of that state to be specious.

It all comes down to what's actually in the law, no matter what state the commenter lives in.  Plenty of stupid comments on this forum from those within a state talking ignorantly about some aspect of that state...

But yeah, lecturing without ensuring that one's facts are in a row is dangerous ground.  Then again, we've all done it.

[1995hoo]

Yeah, no question there are plenty of people who live in Virginia (or any state) who are ignorant of its laws, or who move here from somewhere else and assume the law from their home state still applies,* or who read one thing on the Internet and then declare themselves experts. But with that said, my comment in reply 6804 would presumably give someone a reason to pause and say, "When did they change that? I thought it was 20 over." After all, I did expressly say "They amended the reckless driving law a few years ago to change the threshold in 65- and 70-mph zones." The reason I said that was because otherwise it might have appeared that I wasn't aware of the (now-defunct) "in excess of 80 mph" provision.

It's not the first time in recent years the reckless driving statute was amended, either. It used to be exceeding the speed limit by 20 mph or, or exceeding 80 mph regardless of the posted speed limit, except that in a 35-mph zone it was going 60 mph or more (note, not "exceeding" 60 mph). I always thought that exception was strange and didn't make a lot of sense–if anything, it would seem like you ought to give more tolerance on the Interstate because you're less likely to encounter pedestrians, cyclists, stopped school buses, cross traffic, etc. Anyway, that "60 in a 35 zone" provision was removed in 2006.

*I've never understood why anyone thinks that because the traffic laws in one state say something, the traffic laws in all other states are necessarily the same. This frequently comes up in local discussions about red-light cameras, for example–there's always someone from out West, from a state where they photograph the front of the car, who is adamant that they can't issue you a ticket if there is no picture of the driver. Um, no, the law here expressly requires that the photograph be of the rear of the car only. The thing that puzzles me is how everyone is used to the idea that the single bit of traffic law that most directly affects most people–speed limits–vary from state to state and most people have no trouble with that concept, yet they can't seem to fathom that other aspects of traffic law might also vary. It's not like it's unreasonable for there to be variance for certain things.

[tckma]

I was last in Virginia in October 2022, however, that was *northern* Virginia, specifically Chantilly.  I haven't been on I-95 or I-81 since pre-pandemic days -- my main reason for traveling that way, a father-in-law who lived in NC and now lives in TN, has not wanted people visiting due to the pandemic, and my wife and I have respected that.

I remember when I lived in Maryland, working with someone coming back from a vacation who had a mandatory court appearance (no arrest or impoundment though) for reckless driving, 81 in a 70 on I-95, and it was a big deal since that sort of thing needs to be reported when you do certain Federal government work (as we did).

*I've never understood why anyone thinks that because the traffic laws in one state say something, the traffic laws in all other states are necessarily the same. This frequently comes up in local discussions about red-light cameras, for example–there's always someone from out West, from a state where they photograph the front of the car, who is adamant that they can't issue you a ticket if there is no picture of the driver. Um, no, the law here expressly requires that the photograph be of the rear of the car only. The thing that puzzles me is how everyone is used to the idea that the single bit of traffic law that most directly affects most people–speed limits–vary from state to state and most people have no trouble with that concept, yet they can't seem to fathom that other aspects of traffic law might also vary. It's not like it's unreasonable for there to be variance for certain things.

I think this is a direct function of reciprocity between states when transferring licenses, and the ease of car travel between states.

I have lived in six different states: NY, MA, NH, back to MA, then VA, MD, and now PA.  I got my driver's license in NY in 1996 and my motorcycle license in MA in 2005.  In NO case when I moved states, did I have to take any sort of written test or road test on those state's laws when changing over my driver's license.  My Pennsylvania driver's license is based on that 1996 car road test (1994 written permit test) in New York and that 2005 motorcycle road test (2004 written permit test) in Massachusetts, having provided PennDOT with a Maryland driver's license also based on those four tests.

In addition to states honoring each other's written and road tests, enough of traffic law HAS to be the same between states to allow a driver's license from any one state or province to be honored in any other state or province.  There are even international standards that are agreed upon (traffic lights and STOP signs, for example).

Differences in punishments for breaking traffic laws in different jurisdictions is honestly not something someone needs to know to be able to drive.  I couldn't tell you what the fine/punishment is for a speeding ticket here in Pennsylvania because I haven't gotten one.  Also, changes in traffic laws don't nullify millions of drivers' licenses until all those drivers are tested on the legal changes.  That would be logistically impractical/ridiculous.  Major traffic law changes, like the Move Over laws, get public information campaigns, such as advertising and/or traffic stops with warnings only.  I only know Virginia's (former) reckless driving laws from living in a neighboring state and seeing a bunch of people I knew get mandatory court appearances or arrests for them -- I wasn't even aware of the reckless driving punishments when I LIVED in Virginia.

People assume the laws are the same between states because, for the most part, they are -- and that is of necessity.  In any state, if you exceed the speed limit, you run the risk of getting a ticket -- though the details of those tickets differ between states.  In any state, you must stop at a STOP sign or a red light.  Et cetera.

Everyone who has lived in MD probably knows that traffic camera tickets there are only issued beginning at 12 MPH over the posted speed limit, and they don't need a photo of the driver.  I don't assume that is the same here in PA; I assume it's similar, though.  Your post is the first time I've ever heard "they need a photo of the driver" out West.  They don't need to identify the driver in MD because it's not a moving violation, it's merely revenue generation -- but it can result in registration suspension if not paid or challenged in court.  In order to make it a moving violation, they WOULD need to identify the driver.

[sprjus4]

Interestingly enough, everyone talks about Virginia's speeding law and it used to be notorious (it's a little less now that the threshold is higher, but it's still dumb to count 86 mph in a 70 mph as the state's most severe misdemeanor) - but I often never hear this about neighboring North Carolina... I could be wrong (so I will admit - I might be ignorant here) but from what I've read, I believe driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit, or over 80 mph, is an automatic license suspension (if charged with a misdemeanor).

[1995hoo]

Interestingly enough, everyone talks about Virginia's speeding law and it used to be notorious (it's a little less now that the threshold is higher, but it's still dumb to count 86 mph in a 70 mph as the state's most severe misdemeanor) - but I often never hear this about neighboring North Carolina... I could be wrong (so I will admit - I might be ignorant here) but from what I've read, I believe driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit, or over 80 mph, is an automatic license suspension (if charged with a misdemeanor).

I seem to recall that in the 1990s I read somewhere that it was 15 over or over 75 mph, which was no doubt a legacy of the NMSL days. I would not be surprised at all to hear that they raised the threshold.

One thing a lot of people overlook in Virginia is that the statute we're discussing, which defines certain speeds as reckless, is not the only basis for a reckless driving charge. You can still be charged with reckless driving if you drive in an utterly ridiculous and dangerous manner even if you're going slower than 20 mph over the speed limit–for example, I could see a basis for issuing a reckless driving ticket if someone using the old left-lane HOV facility on I-66 were bombing along in the rain going 60 mph when the traffic in the adjacent lane was at a complete standstill. A reckless ticket, as opposed to simple speeding 5 mph over the speed limit, could be appropriate given the risk that someone would suddenly change lanes into the HOV lane at a time when the speeding driver was unable to stop. The general rule set out in 46.2-852 would seem to allow for that sort of ticket.

[1995hoo]

Double-post because this is unrelated to what's in my previous post. This is definitely NOT something you see every day. It's the scene on I-95 this afternoon. I suspect you might see heavier traffic than usual today anyway with people wanting to get away prior to Easter weekend. This certainly won't help.

https://twitter.com/Chopper4Brad/status/1644004326514343943

[Takumi]

Interestingly enough, everyone talks about Virginia's speeding law and it used to be notorious (it's a little less now that the threshold is higher, but it's still dumb to count 86 mph in a 70 mph as the state's most severe misdemeanor) - but I often never hear this about neighboring North Carolina... I could be wrong (so I will admit - I might be ignorant here) but from what I've read, I believe driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit, or over 80 mph, is an automatic license suspension (if charged with a misdemeanor).

I haven't heard of that, but on both I-95 and I-85 I always see more police cars in North Carolina than I do in Virginia.

[hbelkins]

Just because something changes doesn't mean the signs get changed to reflect that.

Kentucky did away with the 511 system several years ago, yet you can still see 511 signs in various places. I was reporting ones I saw to my sign crew (and to personnel in other districts) a couple of years after the change was made.

It took awhile for signs to be removed advertising our former SAFE Patrol after it was abolished.

There are still some first-generation Hal Rogers Parkway signs (brown text on a white square) that haven't been replaced with the "Unbridled Spirit" signs that are close to 20 years old now.

So it's entirely possible that there are some "80 is reckless" signs still posted.

[Mapmikey]

I found an old photo today to solve a mystery.  I've been searching quite a while for proof that original VA 330 (1930s-1980) was posted at Mary Washington College.

Here is a photo (credit: MW Admissions) from 3-24-64 from the back entrance of the grounds.  This also informs me where VA 330 actually ran since I've yet to see it on a map and the campus roads are quite different than decades ago.  I had previously seen an early 40s photo of this same entrance and it has no posting.

[bluecountry]

Anybody know what all the clearing is for in Marshall by exit 27 on 66?

[wdcrft63]

Interestingly enough, everyone talks about Virginia's speeding law and it used to be notorious (it's a little less now that the threshold is higher, but it's still dumb to count 86 mph in a 70 mph as the state's most severe misdemeanor) - but I often never hear this about neighboring North Carolina... I could be wrong (so I will admit - I might be ignorant here) but from what I've read, I believe driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit, or over 80 mph, is an automatic license suspension (if charged with a misdemeanor).

I haven't heard of that, but on both I-95 and I-85 I always see more police cars in North Carolina than I do in Virginia.

In North Carolina driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit, or over 80 mph, is a Class 3 misdemeanor and leads to a 30 day license suspension.

[plain]

Interestingly enough, everyone talks about Virginia's speeding law and it used to be notorious (it's a little less now that the threshold is higher, but it's still dumb to count 86 mph in a 70 mph as the state's most severe misdemeanor) - but I often never hear this about neighboring North Carolina... I could be wrong (so I will admit - I might be ignorant here) but from what I've read, I believe driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit, or over 80 mph, is an automatic license suspension (if charged with a misdemeanor).

I haven't heard of that, but on both I-95 and I-85 I always see more police cars in North Carolina than I do in Virginia.

I'm late with this, but I've noticed this only with I-95 (probably because there isn't many places for cops to hide between Jarrett and Templeton). It's not unusual to see someone breezing down this stretch doing 90+.

I-85 is often filled with cops, and this is especially true inside Brunswick County, where their police often patrols I-85 on top of the VSP presence. Both my cousin and an ex-coworker have gotten speeding tickets from county police on the interstate.