12-8-8 signals and other 8/12 arrangements

[index]

First and foremost, I apologize if there's a thread for this already, I searched various terms (12/8/8, 12-8-8, 1288, 8/12, 12/8) and no thread specific to 8/12 arrangements showed up.

Anyways, this thread is to discuss said signals and/or share finds (such as on google street view) or photos of 12-8-8 or other 8/12 (think 8-8-12, 12-8-8-12-12, 12-8-12, 8-12-12-12-12 doghouses, etc) signals.

I have some street view finds in North Carolina (where 12-8-8s are extremely rare) that I'll be able to share when I return home.

[Brandon]

12-8-8 used to be a very common arrangement for side mounted signals in Illinois.  There are still a few left.

Cass & 55th St, Westmont, removed 2012.
Washington Blvd & Butterfield Rd, Hillside.  Check out the strange setup for the signals while you're at it.

[PHLBOS]

Peabody, MA used to known for 12-12-8 installations for pedestrian-activated signals (either flashing yellow/red mode or steady green):

MA 114 (Gardner St.) & Abington Ave.

Tremont St. & Northend St.

Central St. (post-mounted signalhead)

In Marblehead, MA; this signal arrangement along Pleasant St. (at the intersection of Maverick St. & Bubier Rd.) features 12-12-8-8 and 12-8-8-8 signalheads. 

Not 100% sure the reasoning for this set-up (which was erected years after I moved away).  Under normal conditions, the signal simply functions as a flashing yellow/red pedestrian-activated signal.  However, since the fire station is within close proximity; the extra signalheads (including green lenses located on the bottom) may light up when fire trucks are heading out.

Ironically, the signals at the actual fire station (Ocean Ave. & where MA 114 & 129 meet) are basic 3-12 signalheads.

[roadman]

Peabody, MA used to known for 12-12-8 installations for pedestrian-activated signals (either flashing yellow/red mode or steady green):

MA 114 (Gardner St.) & Abington Ave.

Tremont St. & Northend St.

Central St. (post-mounted signalhead)

On Route 28 just outside of Reading Center, there are still 12-12-8 emergency signals for the fire station.

[index]

I'm home now, so here's a few GSV shots of 12-8-8s in Charlotte. I was really, really, surprised to find them, I had no clue North Carolina had any 12-8-8s.

https://goo.gl/iYPFHo
https://goo.gl/Gv1f4D
https://goo.gl/k7hui3
https://goo.gl/rDcFU6

There are lots more in Charlotte, and there's a couple 12-8-8s in downtown Salisbury too.

[plain]

Baltimore used to have many 8-8-12 signals for left turns, I believe a few still exist today.

Hampton, VA used to have 12-8-12 signals all over the city as late as the early 2000's but very few, if any, exist today.

Then there's this, just outside Richmond city limits in Henrico County. 12-12-8... and still there
Westwood Ave
https://goo.gl/maps/Fv62AWECddT2

[Scott5114]

Is there such a thing as a 20-12-12 signal?

[thenetwork]

Sounds like over the last 15 years, NCDOT has eliminated all of their 12-12-8-8 double red lights???

[index]

Sounds like over the last 15 years, NCDOT has eliminated all of their 12-12-8-8 double red lights???

Those were a thing In NC? Huh, that's pretty neat. (I hope this doesn't come off as sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested here) Do you know if there's any photos of them I could see?

[jakeroot]

Extremely common sight in British Columbia are near-side 8-8-8 left turn signals. 8-inch (200 mm) heads are the standard size, depending on the housing location. Overhead signals are always 12-12-12, but secondary (mast) signals are usually 12/8-8-8, or if there's a bi-modal signal on the bottom, 12/8-8-8-12. Secondary signals with all 12-inch heads are uncommon, and generally not installed anymore.

[csw]

The only one I have a photo of, in Keokuk, IA:



They seem to use 12-12-12s for overhead lights and 12-8-8s for the secondary signals.

[index]

I thought I should share some images of 12-8-8s I took on my vacation to Victoria, BC. I'm probably one of the three people in the world who like the yellow backplates.

[Ian]

New Jersey has quite the selection of 8/12" combo signals, including ones mounted horizontally. Here's a horizontal 8-8-12-8 PPLT signal at the intersection of Warren and Perry Streets in Trenton.

[7/8]

I thought I should share some images of 12-8-8s I took on my vacation to Victoria, BC. I'm probably one of the three people in the world who like the yellow backplates.

These are what most signals in my area look like. I guess I'm one of the three people who like yellow backplates

[jakeroot]

I thought I should share some images of 12-8-8s I took on my vacation to Victoria, BC. I'm probably one of the three people in the world who like the yellow backplates.

These are what most signals in my area look like. I guess I'm one of the three people who like yellow backplates

Count me in as well. The yellow backplates look nice.

FWIW, the yellow backplates are the reason that the US uses yellow retroreflective strips around black backplates: http://goo.gl/OtpDik (the yellow strip around the edges of yellow backplates was due to the color of the existing backplates in Victoria at the time).

[thenetwork]

Sounds like over the last 15 years, NCDOT has eliminated all of their 12-12-8-8 double red lights???

Those were a thing In NC? Huh, that's pretty neat. (I hope this doesn't come off as sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested here) Do you know if there's any photos of them I could see?

Last time I remember seeing them was around 1996 along US-74 east of Charlotte, and in 2000 in a few scattered places, but I remember a slew of them in downtown Asheville.

To clarify, these are not the "T" lights were the red balls were side-by-side -- these were on a vertical strip (Red 12 / Red 12 / Yellow 8 / Green or Green Arrow 8)

[freebrickproductions]

There are a few 12-8-8 signals in the Tennessee Valley, most notably in Athens, AL. Redstone Arsenal has some 12-12-8 signals in use at Gate 9, and I've seen an 8-12-12 signal in use on Long Island, NY.

[index]

Here's an advertisement for 12-8-8s, I assume when they were first introduced. I assume the purpose was to draw more attention to the red light with a signal that looks different (nobody had seen them before) and a larger red section.

This is all a guess. It could either be right, or I could be completely and totally wrong.

If that was the original purpose of them, I'm starting to wonder, what are other arrangements for? 8-8-12s, 8-12-12s, etc..

[jeffandnicole]

If that was the original purpose of them, I'm starting to wonder, what are other arrangements for? 8-8-12s, 8-12-12s, etc..

In some cases like this, arrows: https://goo.gl/maps/Lo1Hpog7Dhr

Of course, this also begs the question...since a right turn is the only legal movement here, and No Turns on Red are permitted (these conditions existed since the intersection was built about 15 years ago), why didn't they just use red, yellow and green arrows for each signal, rather than a red and yellow ball with a green arrow?

[roadman]

In some cases like this, arrows: https://goo.gl/maps/Lo1Hpog7Dhr

Of course, this also begs the question...since a right turn is the only legal movement here, and No Turns on Red are permitted (these conditions existed since the intersection was built about 15 years ago), why didn't they just use red, yellow and green arrows for each signal, rather than a red and yellow ball with a green arrow?

Perhaps to emphasize that a right turn is the only legal movement here.

[Bitmapped]

12-8-8 used to be very common in the Cleveland, OH area. You can probably find some if you poke around on Google Maps, although most have been replaced in the last decade or so.

There are still a handful of 12-8-8 setups in West Virginia:
Downtown Marlinton has two intersections with pretimed signals from the 1970s, including some unusual side-mount heads: https://goo.gl/maps/HLotp1jsFg62 and https://goo.gl/maps/ZkokRkPvHp62
Morgantown, WV has a pretimed installation with an unusual mounting as well: https://goo.gl/maps/iViWJzTMtjG2

[jakeroot]

In some cases like this, arrows: https://goo.gl/maps/Lo1Hpog7Dhr

Of course, this also begs the question...since a right turn is the only legal movement here, and No Turns on Red are permitted (these conditions existed since the intersection was built about 15 years ago), why didn't they just use red, yellow and green arrows for each signal, rather than a red and yellow ball with a green arrow?

Perhaps to emphasize that a right turn is the only legal movement here.

If you approached an intersection, and all you saw were red arrows pointing in the same direction, I think it's safe to assume that the only legal maneuver would be the movement indicated by the arrows.

There aren't many examples of signalized right-turn-only movements (that aren't right turn slip lanes) in Seattle, but at least one uses all-arrow displays, plus a right-only pavement marking: https://goo.gl/U1qHEv

[roadman]

If you approached an intersection, and all you saw were red arrows pointing in the same direction, I think it's safe to assume that the only legal maneuver would be the movement indicated by the arrows.

Fair point.  Unless the 12 inch green arrow replaced an 8 inch green ball as a "let's fix this problem quick and easy" solution.

[jakeroot]

If you approached an intersection, and all you saw were red arrows pointing in the same direction, I think it's safe to assume that the only legal maneuver would be the movement indicated by the arrows.

Fair point.  Unless the 12 inch green arrow replaced an 8 inch green ball as a "let's fix this problem quick and easy" solution.

You would have to use a green ball if the right turn had to yield to pedestrians. In that situation, however, I'd prefer to use FYAs, instead of plastering the intersection with R3-5R signs (although one wouldn't hurt).

[thenetwork]

12-8-8 used to be very common in the Cleveland, OH area. You can probably find some if you poke around on Google Maps, although most have been replaced in the last decade or so.

Still quite a few in Akron and Columbus as of last year!